Cubase template using Vienna Ensemble Pro and deactivated tracks
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- So in this video, I want to talk about my new Cubase template using a combination of decoupled Vienna Ensemble Pro instances and deactivated tracks. This enables me to reduce the saving time of a session down to around one second while I am able to have direct access to around 1000 instrument tracks.
00:00 Intro
00:26 Why Cubase again?
01:20 Why such a big template?
02:54 Overview of the template
04:54 Saving time of 1 sec
05:46 Vienna Ensemble Pro
10:24 Deactivated Tracks
13:37 The Routing and Busses
14:35 Why you no FX?
16:00 Reverb and why people overthink it
19:52 Limiter and Gain staging
20:53 Finding your instruments
21:29 Outro and thank you!
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Nice tip about CTRL+F I didn't use it before :)
Thanks, you are welcome! :)
Well explained and insightful. Also, really nice tips. Thank you!
Thank you so much for sharing your time and experience with us. Your presentation was clear and precise. Much appreciated. Peter (Canada)
I’m so glad you talked about the reverb and keeping it simple. Not many do. It’s good to know about the concept, but so much better to get on with composing the music and not becoming a pro mix engineer in your own mind, especially for full orchestral setups. Reverb works well for me on the individual busses and gives enough control for the depth of each section. If it sounds good, then it’s good!
Thank you!
Hey !
I love the way you see and organize things on your template !
You made me reconsider my habits :)
Thanks for the video Alex!
I can’t even explain how well timed this video is for me haha! Love the vid!
Same here :)
Hahaa, you guys are more than welcome!
same, I was just looking for this yesterday before the video was posted.
Thank you for doing this, it's very helpful!
You're welcome, thank you!
Great content Alex. Thanks for all the tips. 🙂
Thanks for your comment and dropping by! :)
Great video. I especially like your organization.
The best genuine video out there about templates, do what works great for yourself =) love it man congrats!!
Thank you so much Marco!
@@AlexPfeffer you are welcome Alex, I'll keep following your videos.. out of curiosity wouldn't be lighter to have a cc controlling the disabling instance in VEP?
@@8Excel6 Thank you, but why should I deactivate an instance when all instruments are purged? :) Except some footprint memory all instances of VE Pro are loaded empty when I fire up my template because of purging them :)
@@AlexPfeffer makes totally sense it is just out of curiosity cause I personally got used to that method, but I am working on my new template right now I'll try your :D
Great stuff as always, thank you Alex ! Finally I got my new machine with an i9 and 128 GB RAM :) Now I can build a massive template without thinking about limitations. But I still use the deactivating tracks function in Cubase, it's a great way to speed up your workflow, save power and projects open instantly ! I do the same with my Metal projects, everything is there but only what I really needed is activated.
sooo helpful !! thanks a lot mate !
Thank you!
Great video Alex, I'm use more or less the same tricks, vepro decoupled, purging everything, the routing, but the control F is new for me! thnx a lot!
Sure thing, thank you Martin!
Smart way of saving performance :)
And lots of time! :)
Thank you! Helpful))
I work pretty much the same way, but I use different view configurations for searching an instrument ie I have a configuration assigned on my stream deck for string, brass, keys, and etc. I wasn’t aware of the search track function. So glad you mentioned it here
Wow, my projects now load in a few seconds. Thank you Alex. Hopefully there is a sample God who will add some lifetime for the time wasted in front of projects that took ages to load🤭🤣
I've been using VEPro for the past year, and while I love the short save times in Cubase (and how smoothly Cubase runs in general), I quickly became unhappy with the complications added by VEPro. What really bothers me is that there is both a midi track and an audio return track for EVERYTHING. I like to mix as I go, so it quickly becomes difficult to stay organized.
Last week, I switched to a modular template using instrument tracks entirely within Cubase (no VEPro involved), and it's been such a breath of fresh air! My DAW only contains the tracks I need, all my instrument tracks are midi/audio combined, and when I need something else I can just import from my track archives. Yes, the save times are longer when I have a lot going on (my save time is about 3 full seconds on a particular project), but so far I'm liking this far more. I'll have to see what happens when I need a full orchestra (which I haven't had to do since switching to this modular template).
Hey man, I hear ya. In the meantime I would only use this template if I really got a full orchestral track going. I am also mostly on Studio One and got a modular template too by having basic instruments I would always need plus adding others with the "import files" feature (which basically let's you import instrument tracks into the session with drag & drop)
@@AlexPfeffer Hi Alex, are you still using the VEPro? I was starting to using it, but I use also AVID S1 Mix and I think now the same way Alex Walker. It is so unorganised with all the tracks (midi and audio). I think now, it make the workflow not easier, but more difficult.
I understand the pros for using VEPro, but I think I better take care inside the Cubase and disabling tracks, but I have everything under my fingers. If I want changing some instrument, changing the volume, automation right in Cubase (or other DAW). I have key commands to disable and hiding tracks that I don't need and it is very quickly.... Just asking your honest thoughts if you still using the VEPro. Thank you for your detailed video and hard work
Think the same way Alex... Switching back to Cubase without VEPro... Much organised and easier for me too.
@@JozefHollyPiano Hey man, yes, it always comes down to preferences. If you tried it and it doesn't work and you feel better by hosting it all inside Cubase, then this is your method. What I currently do is having all presets saved in Studio One and as soon as I need something I drag it right into the session. Maybe I will also create a new template again if needed but IF I do I would probably use all inside the DAW.
@@AlexPfeffer Thank you for your answer… It will be nice, if Steinberg will doing something like VEPro ;-) and it will be working directly with multiple instrument track inside Cubase
Hi Alex - terrific video! I have VEPRO and started using it with Studio One, but then switched to a template containing only disabled tracks like Trevor Morris recommended. This is super simple and uncomplicated, but my template has gotten much bigger and I do find that S1 saving time is long with such a large template - even disabled - so I‘m going to try to set up VEPRO again and see if it helps. You reminded me that VEPRO let‘s you set up each track as you want it with its panning, EQ, reverb etc. and I love that. So, fingers crossed that it helps with the saving time too! And btw, after experiencing Studio 1, I simply can‘t go back to Cubase which I find complicated to use! Thanks again for the great tutorial.😊
Hi alex and thanks again for your helpful video! I wonder how do you balance those different libraries, you mentioned that you use pre gain, but have you some method or just by ear :D
Thanks Alex. Great tip about tweak vs non-tweak patches.
I got VEP last year, and a server computer too, but have yet to set it up. I think I'm still waiting for SSD prices to come down. :)
Hope you get it going soon! Thank you!
Thanks so much for this. What thread count are you setting per instance? I’ve heard it you use Vep on your main machine you need to lower the thread count on vep a bit. Have you needed to do that?
now a real tutorial on how to set it up, not just the end result, but the actual steps, one by one. ;)
@21:15 oh God! these little navigation hot keys are what's needed in the workflow and I dont think either there are enough of them or enough of them are known.
I'd be curious about a video just about hot keys and quick navigation tools.
Damn I didnt know about the ctrl+f thing, ahhh the time I could have saved scrolling in my life so far...
Ask for Kilometergeld! :D
Alex another amazing video!! Thnx, probably saved me a lot of hours with my Vepro/Cubase setup… I’m just not sure about decoupling instances… what if you play around with mic positions inside your shared instances? Wouldn’t that “break” the sound of your other projects, or am I missing something?
Yep, it would. However, you can set the instances of the libs you want to play around with the mic instances to coupled and they would change with every track. Keep in mind that the saving process takes more time the more coupled instruments you have.
I am wondering if there's a workaround for Best Service "Engine 2" which does not contain a purge function....🤔
Hey, you can simply deactivate the instrument then.
@@AlexPfeffer thank you. 😊
Great Video Alex, I’m about to delve into the setting up of VE Pro (with Logic) one question I have , I understand your reasoning between , I guess static template in VE Pro vs tweaking inside the DAW but if you’re going to use midi automation and potentially change mic set ups (abbey Rd for example) , would you need to save that VE pro instance as a project specific patch?
You actually can use it as a coupled instance, then all settings will be saved with the template. If you leave it uncoupled or detached it wouldn't save what you change.
Hi, GREAT video. About reverbs, does this mean that i might as well leave the reverb on on the patches is it just “work harder rather than smarter” to have all patches dry and then send it to different reverbs? Thank you!
Thank you, it totally depends on you if you like the sound or not. There is no law really. I often have Nucleus string but using the internal reverb and an additional one. Sometimes not :)
Great video....please can you do a similar video with S1 covering these functions in S1 without going into everything as that has been already covered in this video...Thanks and cheers!!
Thinking about it, but technically it would be the same thing. The tracks are almost all 1:1 in S1.
Hey Alex… Great video as usual. I’m curious as to how you deal with the separate audio returns from VEP when composing? I have a large template as well and find it difficult to easily solo/mute the MIDI tracks I’m working. I have to find the VEP return and adjust from there.
If I would still work with VE Pro I would route them into instrument busses. I never touched the Midi tracks nor the audio outs from VE Pro.
Thank you for your input Alex. Do you have VEP pro with all your orchestral samples on a separate computer than your DAW? Or is it all on one computer - DAW & VEP pro.
Thanks.
Thank you. It was always just one computer.
HI Alex, GREAT VIDEO
I am creating my new template under VEP and Cubase. I have purged all the kontakt instances, but my computer's RAM is still busy and it takes a while to load VEP. Any suggestion? Kind regards
Hey, do you have SSD drives? Also yes, there always has to be some occupied RAM available. Sometimes it is a bit more, sometimes less. I have experienced this too but in the end it is always less than the full template loaded.
Hey Alex, thank you so much for the fantastic information that you shared! I have two questions; first, what monitor do you use as your main screen? Secondly, I made an orchestral/hybrid template in Cubase only using the deactivated tracks method (I’m not in Vienna ensemble yet), and even with all the tracks deactivated the project is somewhat around 400 GB in size… so the deactivated tracks on Cubase don't use memory and CPU? Thank you, and keep up the fantastic work!
400GB, the project in RAM?
@@AlexPfeffer No! I didn't explain it well. The project file size is 400 GB. So, even when the tracks are disabled, the Kontakt samples are still stored inside the project somehow. The problem with this is that, for example, when I want to transfer the project to another computer, a lot of times the project crashes or gets corrupted..
Ok, I get it. Yes, the bigger the project the more problems can happen. The thing is deactivated tracks only free up RAM but obviously, not hard drive space since the information/path has to be stored somewhere.@@antoniosgeorgou9318
Thanks for the vid! Perhaps I missed it, but how are you routing audio from VEPro back to Cubase: separate outputs per instrument patch (i.e. Vlns 1 Spiccato gets its own output back to Cubase) / outputs based on articulation type (i.e. Strings Shorts output back to Cubase) / general bussing of instruments (i.e. one Strings output back to Cubase)? Or are you using another method not mentioned? Thanks!
Hey Alex, depends ... if it is, for example, 10 Vln I articulations I route them back as one stereo out 1-2. If it is, for example, several drum patches that I want to have access to I use several stereo outputs for each of the instruments. Hope that makes sense.
@@AlexPfeffer gotchya, thanks!
My whole template is using the disable feature in Cubase. I will be considering VEPro but I really hate to complicate my setup with additional learning curve.
Never complicate it!
Hi Alex, great video! In terms of reverb on the buss insert, do you use the same amount of reverb on the Doublebasses as the rest of the strings? Or you put an individual buss w/individual insert for the low strings? I am just trying to experiment using the single reverb on the strings as a "send" in order to get more flexibility treating a reverb gain individualy for a section - less on the D.basses. What is your approach?
Hey,. I don't use sends and returns. I only use busses, so I have a bus for Strings and all string instruments go into this, no matter how dry or wet. I love how it mixes up and creates depth by itself.
@@AlexPfeffer thx for your reply. Assuming you also make a special low freq.treatment on the reverb, right? I just still dont feel like having the same amount of reverb on the low strings too.
@@mar0k actually no, I just use reverb and mostly don't EQ the reverb itself.
Hey Alex, my template is looks very similar, but I don't understand before about decouple options. I have one more question, now your VEP instance has 6 GB ram, even if it purge all samples. How you can disable VEP instances, f.e. disable all percussion instance from vep when you work on mellow tune?
Hey Pavel, to be honest I didn't check out how to disable specific instances inside VE Pro. I definitely have to do that. However, when purged it means that no samples will be loaded into the system so it doesn't really bother me. Will do a more in-depth video of how to setup VE Pro etc.
@@AlexPfeffer I don't know if you've figured out a technique for enabling/disabling VEPro instances, but I used this guy's technique: ua-cam.com/video/p0f4kVzzwL8/v-deo.html
This is a great compromised solution of VEP and disabling. Is the VEP on another machine or all same host machine?
Hey Peter, thank you, it is all the same machine.
@@AlexPfeffer so no too long time to vienna pro to load the template? (at start or for purge all kontakt and sine instances)
I love that you have chapters for your videos now :) Have you used Reaper? I am still on Reaper and really like it, using OTR which is a hardmodded version of Reaper for a orchestral template :).
Do like working with keyswitches or one articulation per track?
Thank you! No Reaper for me, I opened it and it felt like the most unintuitive software ever. Also I hear from people that it can do everything ... but then again to me feels as if I have to learn to code. I am happy with Cubase and S1 because it gets the job done.
@@AlexPfeffer Thanks for answering :) I felt the same but on the opposite side. I started with Cubase and didn't understand it, tried reaper and everything feels so fluid and easy to do. But every person have their own taste :). Since I saw you working in Studio One i was interesting in trying it out aswell. But then again I really like big templates like you describe, like a canvas with colours ready to go. Did you find Studio One 5 easy to use with orchestral composing?
Where are the audio tracks? You have MIDI and Instrument, but where are the Aux/Audio tracks?
If you use instruments or rack instruments there are no audio tracks. You get the signal straight back with the Kontakt outs.
thank you Alex. for not saturate the ram when you play, you have to purge all kontakts instances you used sometimes? or you close and reload the vienna pro template?
Thank you, VE Pro is in decoupled mode completely. Meaning any changes that happen (also the unpurging while writing a track) will be reseted the next time I open my template in VE Pro.
@@AlexPfeffer so sometimes it would be neccassry to quit and reload the vepro template to purge and preserve RAM. Thank you
@@alainthiry3965 thing is, I shut down my computer when I go to sleep so everything is fully purged when I fire up my template. I mostly do it to not have an 80+ GB template load up at the very beginning but just use what's necessary and also eliminate the process of activating tracks.
@@AlexPfeffer i understand well! the point is when you active track the samples are loaded in kontakt instances, even if you deactive tracks later. so if you active and deactive number of tracks in the same day before you go to sleep you may have to purge the ram at one moment...
Yes, the RAM will be preserved as long as your computer is running unless it is needed for something else. I just load them purged in the beginning so I don't need to wait for a longer time to load the template but also not have my 128 GB slammed right from the beginning.
I'm assuming you're also updating your VEP along with your Cubase template. Are you simply keeping your VEP template backwards compatible, or do you have a system to make sure that whenever you load an older project, you know which version of the VEP template goes along with it?
It actually stays backwards compatible as long as I don't change any of the existing stuff. However, if I would have to do some drastic changes I would simply save the entire VE Pro project with another name.
If you don't mind I ask, on these kind of changes, how do you document/track when a project has a custom template attached?
Hallo Alex, danke für das Video, auf eine Sache bin ich neugierig, und zwar der Button "Mitglied werden", man muss dafür 4,99 EUR/ Monat zahlen und kann auf exklusive Content zugreifen, darf ich fragen, was für welche sind diese? Gruß!
Hey sorry für die späte Antwort. Hatte das als Test mal ausprobiert. Es war eine Reihe von exclusiven Audio Packs und anderen Dingen. Ich hab die Aktion wieder runtergefahren da kaum genutzt. Ich denke diese Mitgliedsfunktion macht auch erst Sinn so ab 50k-100k Subscibern :)
Hallo Alex, danke für die hilfreicher Videos!!! Ich wollte fragen ob eine Möglichkeit besteht mit dir eine Zoom session zu haben: Ich habe ein paar grundsätzliche Frage über Cubase in Verbindung mit Orchester Libraries. Ich benutze auch VEP7. Gerne auch Nach Bezahlung. Danke noch mal und viele Grüße. Christian
Hey ja klar, danke dir! Melde dich doch einfach mal unter alex@alexpfeffer.co
Alex how can you get satisfed by PC-Cubase quality of sound? It looks like a plastic without dimensions and narrow stereo field compared to Mac-Cubase one.
Sorry, but digital audio is always the same, no matter if it is Cubase or any other DAW or PC/Mac. Absolutely no difference.
@@AlexPfeffer a big difference there is:)
@@Sunstatemusic sorry I have worked on Mac for seven years and even longer on PC. Digital audio is 0 and 1. There is no difference. Please send me proof!
@@AlexPfeffer sure, i can record video
@@Sunstatemusic save your time and google sound quality mac vs pc, you find tons of posts and it has been discussed until exhaustion. bits are bits and you rather have different pan law settings on your mac or pc. There is no difference and you won't find scientific proof that there is.
No Studio One anymore? :(
David, I work with both, if you check all my videos you see it is constantly changing depending on what I want/need or feel like :)
Very cool setup! Unfortunately Ableton Live doesn't have a deactivated tracks feature. Hopefully they'll add it to Live 11!
Finger crossed! :) Thanks for checking out my video!
Hey Yeah I use Ableton live as well, and I saw this really cool way of getting it around that issue. :ua-cam.com/video/O_tjv4aPe6c/v-deo.html
Hey Alex! I have bought a copy of VEPro 7, after watching your video, so thank you as always for sharing. I am looking some videos on UA-cam for more in-depth content about VEPro (also RTFM :)). Would you like to do a walkthrough or tutorial kind of video like building a template with VEPro 7? Thank you!
Thank you! Yes, will do that soon, just need to find the time. Thanks for the suggestion!
@@AlexPfeffer I am messing arround with VEPro now. It might be very good, if someone comes to rescue :).
Hi Alex, new subscriber here. Thanks for sharing this. Can you share your general computer specs?
Thank you so much! Currently on an 18core Intel 10980 3Ghz and 128 GB of RAM, Samsung Evo SSD drives for samples
It's very good ... but the truth makes me a bit dizzy putting everything in a template and coupling or uncoupling ... it is still visually tedious ... if we add the bus, and effects ... if I just go to work for an octet or small chamber orchestra ... what time is really lost? Unless you compose a symphony in 15 minutes ... I would like this explanation that is visually more practical step by step and not so theoretical or supposed ...... or I am a composer or I am a sound technician with a gigantic monitor ..and look for the needle in the haystack ,, jaaaaa .... but thanks I liked your video!
As I mention in the video, I use all VE Pro instances uncoupled and only put instruments I don't want to tweak in there. Fire up VE Pro in the morning, close it in the night, next morning the same. No need to add busses and only adding fx while mixing (what you have to do with an empty session anyway).
Regarding lost time. Yes, it took around a few days to set this up but I load and save a lot of time and tracks, especially when being in the review phase of a video game. You work on 5 or more tracks pre day. My sessions saves in around a second, so the time saved is days at the end of every year.
By using the browser that quickly finds any track in your session and leaving everything uncoupled there is absolutely nothing chaotic about a template like this. You could even hide all unused tracks with one click. Nothing but advantages here :)
There will be a more step by step video, but I can't do it all in just one video, because talking about a general template is too complex and would make a video like 2-3 hours long and in a time with an attention rate of around 8 seconds on average, almost noone will watch it :)
@@AlexPfeffer Thank you very much Master, very clear!
@@rubenmolino1480 Haha master, still a very very long way :D