The Stabilizer Problem - Norbauer's Presentation at Keycon 2024
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- Опубліковано 30 кві 2024
- Norbauer shares his 5 year journey in keyboard stabilizer exploration to design a new stabilizer that doesn't require any lubing, presented at Keycon 2024.
Norbauer Interview: • "Invisible Makers of t...
Check out Norbauer's work: www.norbauer.co/
Written form of this presentation: ryan.norbauer.com/journal/the...
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didn't asus already create a proprietary type of stabilizers that use clips to hold on to the wires so that rattle is minimized? they are compatible with existing layouts and don't need to be fiddled with like coasters do. why is that type mentioned in the presentation🙄
i love at midnight finding a random keyboard presentation lol
"its patented but I don't plan on manufacturing it" *subtle groaning of the audience*
fr. Why bother telling us lol.
even if he did he'll demand an egregious amount of money just because he slapped his last name on another product
Is there a timestamp?
@@eraserheadSH To be fair, the design is simple enough that we'll have chinese clones of the design with a few months.
Seriously? sigh
such an engaging presentation thank you for recording i didnt expect to be so invested the whole way through
I can't believe I just sat here for an hour and watched a talk on keyboard stabilizers. At the same time, this is incredible.
Wow, I hope I will be able to get my paws on a few of these stabs. It looks amazing and the whole journey was fascinating to listen to. Thanks for posting this.
So so glad you recorded this, Nathan!! Good to see you and chat again, hope we see you back in The Bay soon!
This was so fascinating. Great content.
fascinating talk, really enjoyed hearing about the journey
And all of the money in the pockets of thousands of keyboard nerds burst into flames.
It was so cool to attend this session and I’m glad I can revisit it now! Thanks, Mr. Kim ❤
I took one of your cards.... hehe
@@TaehaTypes thank you for the support of my budding idol career 🙏
It was great to attend Keycon this year and have the opportunity to meet you there :)
Holy hell, I wasn't expecting myself to sit through this entire presentation on stabilizers, but Norbauer sure knows how to keep my attention all throughout the presentation
all hail the Norbalizer!
we coined it here first a new Norba product
All hail the Norbalizer!
Thanks for sharing! Kudos to the questions at the end I had similar questions. Hopefully the MX style work in existing boards as he expects.
This is why I really love and could never let go of this hobby. We may never pay attention to it so much, for me at least, I find the stabilizers to be one of the cornerstone of building an almost perfect keyboard catered to our own specific preferences.
I love this kind of engineering intricacies and perhaps a chance of a new and truly innovative improvement to the overall hobby.
With the kind of price tag he's going to slap on these, I am not seeing an improvement to the hobby as a whole lol
Incredible stuff
Nice. Someone truly invests and takes a serious look at the design of stab.
About time we fixed the old design!
@@TaehaTypesno matter how much it costs im gonna support him. I wanna encourage more people like him in this hobby. Flawed stabilizers, abs keycaps shined over time etc. There are always rooms for improvement
Extremely entertaining!
read through his post about this just the other day, had a jaw drop moment when I read the part about preloaded wire springs on the eventually abandoned design. seems so obvious in hindsight, the true mark of great design
I had the exact same reaction reading that. True hand to forehead moment.
This is effectively what the Holee mod does.
@@rockets4kids if you read the full text of norbauer's post, you can appreciate the difference between just padding the inside surfaces in a stab housing (holee and other mods like wrapping the wire ends with tape or silicone) and actually preloading the wire via a spring mechanism such that it always remains pressed against one face of the housing. the former can induce binding while the latter seemingly cannot, though we can't say conclusively since afaik there's no stab on the market currently that employs such a mechanism
@@abstrktionLair Yeah, the Holee mod is a hack which can make things even worse in some cases. But it is accomplishing the same basic thing. Also, there is prior art on spring pre-load: ua-cam.com/video/vUzK0fn4iYA/v-deo.html
@@rockets4kids that's actually very cool, it definitely is a great idea that I'd love to see even more implementations of
This is so cool!! I just built another keyboard within the last week. I have already swapped to another keyboard because I'm so dissatisfied with the way the stabilizers sound and feel. I'll need to redo them, I guess, but it warms my heart to see the possibility of acquiring stabilizers that simply work. Definitely going to keep my eyes peeled in the future
1:40 How we all feel about exit scams in the hobby
KEK
This is the most exciting this I have see in the keyboard community for quite a while. 100% gonna cop the stabs if they become available for mx pcbs.
Great presentation, thanks for filming!
Ive had all these problems for so damn long. Happy they are getting worked around and fixed at last.
I hope this will be successful and becomes a widely adopted new standard that works for mx boards too
Hype!
If anyone is wondering, the approximate keyboard price according to the Norbauer website - around $3400.
LMFAO
If true, the price of a keyboard with such a stab - Damn!
@@VicharB it is true, board will cost a stupid high amount
I was there! I was the one one seat to the right of the camera. Can't wait for these, I don't care how much they cost.
the goat!
getting used as a visual aid ICANT
ICANT
More moving parts = more problem over time = more cost & effort, yeah i'll stick to the $5 lube with a good pair of stabs
More is more….money
This is genius. Whoever gonna cop this will need to ball out a lot tho. Props to the man for his dedication and devotion. This might help others as well on the journey of improving the outdated design we are used to
1:04:22 cherry mx vs norbalizer
I'm currently typing on a keyboard that has 1u keys for delete and shift. The only keys I use with stabilizers are the 2.75u spacebar and the enter key. I hate stabilizer rattle/ticking and constantly fiddling with them that much. Please let this work.
the keyboard rabbit hole, by the time I realized I already watched half the presentation LOL
What a great video, and what an exciting prospect for the keyboard community!
I hope to find this on aliexpress soon
I just need one of these for my spacebar and nothing else. The smaller keys are all fine, but even with a TX stab I can't quite get the spacebar perfect. I'd buy just one stab, even for a lot of money, if it was perfect.
Same here. I can imagine these being 10x the cost of regular stabs, but if they're better than I can do with lube, I can imagine them still being my go to for space bars.
@@WernerCoH I can guarantee these will cost far more than 10x of a regular stab.
@@frankholub4673 the norbauer guarantee lmfao
Oh man I can’t wait til I can buy these by themselves. They’re soooo cool
This was fascinating, thank you taeha! Incredible innovation, I am really interested in this.
The early foray into compliant mechanisms makes me think of the Apple Butterfly mechanism which replaces typical scissor stabilizers for laptop keys with a compliant hinged mechanism.
(the butterfly mechanism was only an issue for the dust resistance, the key feel change came because of metal domes)
Super interesting! Thanks for sharing!
` I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Why not just use membrane resistance modules as stabilizers. it makes sense since it dampens and they're quiet. Occam's Razor that shit man. It doesn't have to be that complicated.
OR use lead-carbon stabilizer bars that reduces friction and increases flex
Would it lead to the same sound or feel, and satisfy the other criterion he's after? "it doesn't have to be that complicated" seems like you're dismissing a problem you ain't thought very hard about.
It's pretty crazy to think that luxury keyboards have not had intricate stabilizer mechanisms before. So excited to see this in production.
Guys, thank you for raising one of the most serious problems of all mankind! I forbid you to shake!
so excited about this stab
I'd imagine these are going to be prohibitively expensive to manufacture and thus extremely expensive to an end consumer. Much like many other technologies, this is technically feasible but likely economically unviable because of its complexity and niche market. Shame because this is some pretty incredible engineering and a fascinating lecture.
This was the one thing I wanted to see from the show. Thank you for recording all of it!
I'd love to try this and I kinda want Kaihl stem stabilization
this is actually applicable to so many dam things lol, the presenter hopefully knows how engaging and well thought out his project is
5AM in my country and I'm listening to this presentation while I lub my stabs LOL
Very impressive for sure, definitely looks promising, but now the question is what will be the cost of this stabilser compared to what we have today, considering it is licenced and mass produced by various manufacturers.
This has fully convinced me to once again switch to a Sofle V2. The engineering is super cool but dear lord, the lengths we have to go to to fix traditional designs. 1U all the keys seems so much easier.
I want that board just to test the stabilizers
I love this mans passion!
The production mold is going to be insanely expensive because EDM is used and tool steel is extremely hard. I’m guessing that the molds (always 2 because you need to get the part out) are going to be north of 200,000 or 300,000 USD because of those very fine features.
The economies of scale for these things are nonexistent, they're a product for a niche of a niche market and will be insanely expensive to make up for the R&D and tooling cost + relatively small production run. I really do wish him the best and hope this succeeds but I think people are going to have some nasty sticker shock.
Finally something important in this world
stabilizers are more important than world hunger
That moment when your stabilizers cost more than the rest of the build. 🤣 Thanks for the video. And most importantly thanks to Norbauer for the interview and drive/ability to create something that should elevate the quality of our hobby.
I'm less concerned about hair and dust getting into the pins but between the collapsing parts and their gaps and introducing friction and binding there (not that that isn't an issue on any stab anyways), but other than that really interesting.
staebies is probably the only stabilizer that fix my frustration, with just some wire balancing and lube, the tick and rattle sound is completely evicted.
New streamer has returned ❤🙌🏾
okkayyyyyyyyyyyy
If these were $50 a stabilizer, I'm sure many would still buy it - myself included.
Pretty next level idea. I have a feeling TONS of little issues will arise after it gets out into the public but I cannot wait to try and grab some sets for myself.
You know, when I got to the compliant systems slides, I was thinking there would be a punchline about membrane keyboards somehow being the correct solution.
Where can I get my hands on a pair?
Where can i buy this new Stabs ??? No infos on this HP
We made that disdainful face of yours Taeha an emoji on the SFxMK discord thanks to this.
LOLLL ICANT
Norbauer is a careful and dedicated designer, but he has never made a full-size and likely never will, which alone makes him an irrelevant market presence to many of us. The obsession with Topre switches is also not one I share, so watching and reading about his exploits always felt like being subjected to the overtures of an alien to unimaginable audiences. But this stabiliser design sure grabbed my attention. The response at 51:20 suggests to me that developing or manufacturing an MX-compatible version of the design will not be a priority for him.
You misinterpreted his response. It's entirely possible we'd get mx versions.
When can I buy them though :3
45:40 damnnnnn
1:40 LOLOLOLOLOLOL
INSERT "Futura Shut up and take my money meme"
I wonder if anyone here realizes how much these stabs are actually going to cost 😂
Adding a couple hundred bucks to a $3500+ board is barely going to be noticed.
@@rockets4kids nah man honestly idgaf about that board. I'm talking about msrp in case these hit the markets as simple components.
@@foggytypes That is exactly what I am talking about here.
@@rockets4kids if you spent $3500+ on your build you’re doing it wrong. are you one of those bright individuals that pay flip prices? 😂
@@foggytypes That's the *starting* price for an off-the-peg Norbauer keyboard. Bespoke boards are considerably more than that.
I can't a video this long for just stabilizers 😓
brain rot rehab
The left side of the spacebar still has a little bit of sound, so I think it needs to be cleaned up a bit.
Ryan is truly a world class engineer. I love reading his explanations and looking at his work. Protect Ryan at all costs!
i'm not sure why a hydraulic method wouldn't have worked necessarily. self leveling, easy to tune, and there's existing systems meant to eliminate the effects of compression via an extra bleed chamber. maybe liquid dynamics makes it too slow?
norbauer is one of a kind a true legend
I'm typing this using my Heavy 6//FC660c
idk man i like how my space bar feels like a stapler
i wonder how susceptible these would be to just plain getting dirty over time. The housings are pretty wide open, but they also don't use lube which gathers particles even faster and holds onto them
Ohhhhh lol I literally typed this question like one minute before YOU asked him the same thing! 🤣
What????? I need it!!!!!!! 😂❤
This was a cool talk
crazy
Wait.. so this is not going to be available for purchase?? No disrespect but what is the fn point of this video if you cant buy the product?
Fujitsu already had perfect stabilisers made in early 1990s in their FKB4700/FKB4725.
All it took was a torsion spring and it can eliminate virturally any rattle.
ua-cam.com/video/vUzK0fn4iYA/v-deo.htmlsi=GzZAfxrEdDVf9ZKa&t=311
Maybe no rattling but you can hear quite a bit of ticking
@@karellen00 the ticking can be further improved upon modifications to existing design. I had a FKB4726 and there was no tick at all stock.
A company made that without even intending to have the best stabiliser.
@@TIB1243S I get what you mean, but if you want to get to the last 1% you just have to use a more complex design. To be honest I'm fine with previous designs and lube, but I love the fact that someone is reinventing the wheel to get an improvement that at the end of the day is substantial but not huge.
@@karellen00 I'm not trying to discredit Norbauer here, I'm just suggesting that there can be simpler solutions, for what I fear of such a complex system may bring a much, much elevated cost of entry.
@@TIB1243S Yes, probably a set of stabs alone will cost as much as an entire mid range custom keyboard. But honestly I wouldn't expect less for a $3000+ keyboard. Totally outside of my budget, and I hope someone will fill the gap as you say improving the existing designs (or even getting the patent for the simpler system designed by Norbauer)
I would love to pick up some of these when the MX variant comes out
crazy design
rubber suede coating the core is all you need
My god i despise tuning stabilizers, i would gladly pay fantastically big amounts of money to never have to ever do that again. Like if a 60% kit of these launched for say 75$, i would totally grab a pair. Ive been through so many stabs at this point until I found some that work well for me, im already way over that amount.
1:04:22 click here if you're not a nerd and just want to see the stabilizer in action
When do you think these will be available?
based on the prices of his keyboards, a set of these stabilizers will cost more than most budget custom boards
感觉成本会很高唉
amazing. Where can i buy one
I want more engineering presentations especially keyboard ones, they are just cool
waiting for the journal paper. this is too op
I would throw a lot of money at this.
Group buy?