Wow......Fantastic Lugers......I used to have very nice 1936 S/42, all matching with both matching mags (very rare over here in the uk) with a beautiful brown 1936 holster and loading tool......And, like an idiot, i sold it. I have kicked myself every day since then..... Love your informative videos, you come over as a really nice friendly guy and the presentation is superb. Your camera guy does a good job too.... Please keep the videos coming....
One of the most interesting parts of the Graf Spee story happens after the sinking. The German government sold the wreck to a Montevideo engineering company. That company used a “local gangster” Julio Vega-Helguara to negotiate the deal (he happened to be “friends” with the German Ambassador, which helped) - but Vega Helguara was an agent of British Intelligence. On February 23rd, 1940 a price was agreed of £14,000. The Montevideo engineering company “just happened to have” a ship-breaking salvage expert, another “friend” of Vega Helguara from an associated sub-contractor “passing through” Montevideo. That sub-contractor was a British scrap metal company, T W Ward Ltd. Their “expert” had been sent out by Sunderland flying boat to Montevideo - but this expert was not a ship breaker , but a Mr Bainbridge-Bell, a British government scientist working in the field of radar. In March 6th and 7th, Bainbridge-Bell rowed out to the scuttled vessel and because he was acting for a Uruguayan company who owned the vessel now he was allowed access by the guard force. He clambered up the exposed super-structure, taking notes and measuring, taking photographs and obtaining “samples” including parts of the antennas as well as some electrical components from the radar’s display system. His measurements of the antennas allowed him to derive the wavelength of the radar as 57cm. Other “representatives” of T W Ward sent to Montevideo included Mr M K Purvis (whose real occupation was a Naval construction designer from the British Admiralty), and Lt G P Kilroy, an undercover British Royal Navy torpedo officer. The undercover team narrowly escaped death when part of the range-finding superstructure fell as they were working from a small boat below - one wonders if they were trying to remove the whole part of that superstructure. I have some reports that an entire anti-aircraft gun system was also recovered to the UK, and other reports suggest that their activities in April/March 1940 included getting two divers into the forward magazine. All in all a very cheeky operation in a neutral country. The Royal Navy allocated funds for this operation via T W Ward Ltd for this operation, and in true bureaucratic fashion had to justify every penny of that to the Treasury. That resulted in two years of paperwork exchanges as the Treasury queried the expenses and the unusual processes involving Wards and the gangster. The insights into German technology were very significant though. This final justification for the operations expenses was made, calmly by the Royal Navy Director of Signals: “The examination of the Graf Spee by our representative was most valuable in establishing the use of RDF by the enemy. It also provided sufficient technical detail in this matter to guide us in the search for enemy RDF in general and in the devising and preparation of equipment for countermeasures.” So The German Government sold the wreck including all its military secrets to the British Royal Navy…..
Very interesting video would like to add that the Battleship Massachusetts in Fall River, Ma. has a dinner table cloth from the Graf Spee Officers mess , donated to the museum by a woman who lived in Argentina at the time her husband bought it from a German sailor back in 1939 as a souvenir, very good condition I held it once, its wrapped up in paper, and not on display, beige in color, didn't notice any swastikas on it her husband died and she moved back to Fall River , bringing the flag with her that's all i know about it
wow, the best video from you to date. i have one of the 1934 mauser,s .with the rare early marine markings. in mint condition ,with both originale mags,and holster. great to sea other 1934 mausers with the same markings. mine is o marked.
I love all of the Proof Marks, Dates, Serial Numbers, Manufacturers marks, Crest marks, etc on all firearms. They all tell an interesting story of history.
My Dad, A Hungarian Oil Geofisic, (most Hungarians where deployed to the eastern front) lucky for him, remained in in Hungary doing trerritorial guard. When the Russians invaded Hungary , he and his Oil buddy´s fled over the border to Germany near Bavaria. The where camped together in barracs, near a railroad dead end, whe one morning they found an abandoned german luxury train. They sacked it, sleeping on hay instead of the leather couches of the train was an improvment. Dad found a silver plated and engraved Luger. Thought about keeping it,but burried it. Caught with a gun by the end of WWII meant death. He never went back to retrive it.
I've heard before that a lot of the german soldiers were ashamed of what the ss were doing . Thanks for the great info on Graf Spee . I thought I knew the whole story but learned a little bit more today .
I perceive the SS thought they were better than everyone else. They also seemed to have developed a reputation for execution of pows, a habit which resulted in Allied soldiers doing likewise to any SS they captured and making lied troops quite reticent to surrender unless they were reasonably sure they weren't surrendering to SS troops.
13:38 How did you get those old relics all in such immaculate condition? I've seen these old guns in museums, even museum pieces weren't shiny like yours :)
You have a flag ,I have a lump of shapnel from the Spee which landed at great speed on the Achilles during the battle. My uncle served in Y turret and survived the action.
yes, you are defenetely right when you say, " we all are winners", because we are watching your videos, that's one reason. Never seen such an Expert in German Firearms for a long time, the only few where German and sadly the most passed away during the last decade..... Greetings from Germany, Matthias
Just a couple of points about the Battle of the River Plate that didn't really come through in your overview. Firstly, one of the three RN warships that engaged Graf Spee off the South American coast, the HMS Achilles, was actually a New Zealand ship, technically part of the 'NZ Division' of the RN. Secondly, your overview doesn't convey the desperate nature of the sea battle that took place between the Graf Spee and the three RN cruisers before the Graf Spee broke off the action and sailed into Montevideo. All four ships were left heavily damaged as a result of the action. The Heavy Cruiser Exeter was so badly damaged she was forced to retire, listing heavily as it did so. The Graf Spee was mortally wounded during the action, having suffered critical damage to her fuel system resulting from a hit from Exeter. The damage was such that without the necessary repairs she was unable to return to a friendly port. Even if she had managed to fight off the RN, she would have ended up dead in the water.
The flag isn't just a Navy battle flag. It's the over all battle flag for the German armed forces as opposed to the national flag which was plain red with a plain black swastika in a white circle
When you were showing the Mauser .32, I'm sure you remember the last German sailor that was plucked from the sea in the movie, Lifeboat? He pulled one of those on the group in the lifeboat. I have one in my safe, but I was told by our armor that it was a "pocket pistol". Commercial model. I found that part of the video very interesting. Again, thanks for you great videos.
It would seem the German navy had the highest % of decent Germans. Airforce second and most would agree, waffen SS the worst for Nazis who toed the Nazi dogma line. It does go to show, all Germans weren't murderous scum. This may sound very odd if not unbelievable but one of the guests at my parents wedding was in the Dutch ss. My father survived Buchenwald. As my father explained to me, the man was a mechanic who had a family he had to feed. He figured the man wasn't really free of sin but had already been punishment by the Dutch penal system. Also he was the manager and owner of the factory where my mother worked. Sorry, made this too long and somewhat off topic. Once again I thank you for all your research and more importantly, sharing it with the world. You are a good man and may your chosen God bless you.
There were still uboat crews who opened up on survivors in lifeboats or in the water with MP40s and MG34-42s. Most of the victims being noncombative merchant marine sailors. I wouldn't paint all the German sailors as saints. There was that one U-boat captain who tried to save a bunch of people when he torpedoed a ship with many woman and children. He called for help from all nations and as I recall it was going pretty good till an American B25 appeared and figured sinking a U-boat was far more important than the woman and children the U-boat was trying to save. But as I said the U-boat started the whole thing. War is an ugly thing and no nation is totally free of war crimes. As the saying goes, the first casualty of war is truth.
Do you apply leather conditioner to the holsters to keep them supple? How do you maintain them? I inherited a bring back byf 41 that is in pristine condition with matching magazines, 4 boxes of ww2 sealed 9mm ammo and a navy marked 39 holster. Along with it was a kriegsmarine dagger. The pistol, however, bears no M marking. The holster is in excellent condition but i am concerned it will degrade over time and want to pass it down
Generally I dont treat the leather as we live in a fairly humid so they dont tend to crack. Mold is more of a problem here. But I have heard collectors in the Western States. (Very Dry) use leather preservative to keep the leather from drying out and cracking.
Admiral Graf Spee was not a battleship. She belonged to a class of four warships known to the Kriegsmarine as Panzerschiffe -- armored ships. Her displacement and armor would classify her as a heavy cruiser. However, the Panzerschiffe had a few unusual characteristics that made them exceptional heavy cruisers. Their propulsion was exceptional in that instead of the geared steam turbines that were the international standard in warship propulsion in the 20th century, the Panzerschiffe used diesel engines. Without the need for boilers, Graf Spee and her sisters had space for extra fuel, giving them extraordinary cruising range -- ideal for the sort of lone wolf commerce raiding they were designed for. Graf Spee and the others had 6 280mm guns in two turrets, whereas a treaty-compliant heavy cruiser had 9 or more 203mm guns. These big guns led some members of the British press to call these vessels "pocket battleships", a term without a useful meaning that people sincerely interested in military history should ignore.
I suspect there was thriving market in Graf Spee memorabilia in Montevideo around then. The wreck was quite a attraction. And a tourist trap. Big deal down there. Not much else.
I have a bayonet from this ship. What is it worth? It was given to me from a sailor from the USS Helena. He said they went on the graf spee a few times and he picked it up.
My friend Ott had 2 German flags that his buddy Ferd left him when he died. I was trying for years to get one. Ott went in the nursing home and I asked his wife about it. She said not while he is alive. I respected that as I think the world of them both. Well he passed and a month later she was gone. The first auction company to come in backed out of doing the auction. The flags, dagger, medals, were now gone. A Grandson may have got them Im not sure. I hope so.
Those HSC's where ahead of their time in looks but the same could be said about Walthers maybe more so. And yes how special it is to own something carried Untersea and very well should still be down there. I still can't figure out if you are a arms dealer or private collector or a private museum. WOW you got a lot of neat stuff.
What a great movie! Tom, if you’re having a bad day just remember to make a retarded monster voice and belt out; Puttin on the ritz! It will definitely make someone smile and laugh, and there’s a really good chance you too will smiling and laughing too! As usual, great video! Thank you
I'm sorry, I don't want to be THAT guy, but it's ostsee, not otsee. My wife is a Berliner and I think she may explode if she hears otsee one more time.(I think her boiler may be backed up).
Wow......Fantastic Lugers......I used to have very nice 1936 S/42, all matching with both matching mags (very rare over here in the uk) with a beautiful brown 1936 holster and loading tool......And, like an idiot, i sold it. I have kicked myself every day since then.....
Love your informative videos, you come over as a really nice friendly guy and the presentation is superb.
Your camera guy does a good job too....
Please keep the videos coming....
As usual a great video and very educational. I'm not only a viewer, I'm a customer of your great items you have for sale!!
You covered a lot of history very well in a short time. Thank you for the great content.
I could watch Lugers being slowly turned in gloved hands with a white background for hours at a time.
One of the most interesting parts of the Graf Spee story happens after the sinking. The German government sold the wreck to a Montevideo engineering company. That company used a “local gangster” Julio Vega-Helguara to negotiate the deal (he happened to be “friends” with the German Ambassador, which helped) - but Vega Helguara was an agent of British Intelligence. On February 23rd, 1940 a price was agreed of £14,000. The Montevideo engineering company “just happened to have” a ship-breaking salvage expert, another “friend” of Vega Helguara from an associated sub-contractor “passing through” Montevideo. That sub-contractor was a British scrap metal company, T W Ward Ltd. Their “expert” had been sent out by Sunderland flying boat to Montevideo - but this expert was not a ship breaker , but a Mr Bainbridge-Bell, a British government scientist working in the field of radar.
In March 6th and 7th, Bainbridge-Bell rowed out to the scuttled vessel and because he was acting for a Uruguayan company who owned the vessel now he was allowed access by the guard force. He clambered up the exposed super-structure, taking notes and measuring, taking photographs and obtaining “samples” including parts of the antennas as well as some electrical components from the radar’s display system. His measurements of the antennas allowed him to derive the wavelength of the radar as 57cm. Other “representatives” of T W Ward sent to Montevideo included Mr M K Purvis (whose real occupation was a Naval construction designer from the British Admiralty), and Lt G P Kilroy, an undercover British Royal Navy torpedo officer. The undercover team narrowly escaped death when part of the range-finding superstructure fell as they were working from a small boat below - one wonders if they were trying to remove the whole part of that superstructure. I have some reports that an entire anti-aircraft gun system was also recovered to the UK, and other reports suggest that their activities in April/March 1940 included getting two divers into the forward magazine. All in all a very cheeky operation in a neutral country.
The Royal Navy allocated funds for this operation via T W Ward Ltd for this operation, and in true bureaucratic fashion had to justify every penny of that to the Treasury. That resulted in two years of paperwork exchanges as the Treasury queried the expenses and the unusual processes involving Wards and the gangster. The insights into German technology were very significant though. This final justification for the operations expenses was made, calmly by the Royal Navy Director of Signals:
“The examination of the Graf Spee by our representative was most valuable in establishing the use of RDF by the enemy. It also provided sufficient technical detail in this matter to guide us in the search for enemy RDF in general and in the devising and preparation of equipment for countermeasures.”
So The German Government sold the wreck including all its military secrets to the British Royal Navy…..
Very cool addendum to the story. I never heard that. !
Awesome, video. Thank you very much!
Great presentation, as per always. Interesting story well told.
Gosh those Mausers are fine!
Very interesting video
would like to add that the Battleship Massachusetts in Fall River, Ma. has a dinner table cloth from the Graf Spee Officers mess , donated to the museum by a woman who lived in Argentina at the time
her husband bought it from a German sailor back in 1939 as a souvenir, very good condition I held it once, its wrapped up in paper, and not on display, beige in color, didn't notice any swastikas on it
her husband died and she moved back to Fall River , bringing the flag with her
that's all i know about it
Another outstanding video
Beautiful Lugers!!!! Oh I am so jealous!!! I am drooling big time!!!
Like always hands on super educational video
wow, the best video from you to date. i have one of the 1934 mauser,s .with the rare early marine markings. in mint condition ,with both originale mags,and holster. great to sea other 1934 mausers with the same markings. mine is o marked.
Thanks for sharing your antique Lugers and your marvelous knowledge with us!👍👍
Great video, Thanks!
Great video very informative thanks
I love all of the Proof Marks, Dates, Serial Numbers, Manufacturers marks, Crest marks, etc on all firearms. They all tell an interesting story of history.
Absolutely awesome Luger !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My Dad, A Hungarian Oil Geofisic, (most Hungarians where deployed to the eastern front) lucky for him, remained in in Hungary doing trerritorial guard. When the Russians invaded Hungary , he and his Oil buddy´s fled over the border to Germany near Bavaria. The where camped together in barracs, near a railroad dead end, whe one morning they found an abandoned german luxury train. They sacked it, sleeping on hay instead of the leather couches of the train was an improvment. Dad found a silver plated and engraved Luger. Thought about keeping it,but burried it. Caught with a gun by the end of WWII meant death. He never went back to retrive it.
I've heard before that a lot of the german soldiers were ashamed of what the ss were doing . Thanks for the great info on Graf Spee . I thought I knew the whole story but learned a little bit more today .
I perceive the SS thought they were better than everyone else. They also seemed to have developed a reputation for execution of pows, a habit which resulted in Allied soldiers doing likewise to any SS they captured and making lied troops quite reticent to surrender unless they were reasonably sure they weren't surrendering to SS troops.
welcome back tom xx
love the break aways, i get most of them, thanks for the history, and i do have a beverage
13:38 How did you get those old relics all in such immaculate condition? I've seen these old guns in museums, even museum pieces weren't shiny like yours :)
You have a flag ,I have a lump of shapnel from the Spee which landed at great speed on the Achilles during the battle. My uncle served in Y turret and survived the action.
Has the Graf Spee flag sold already? It's not appearing under your listings on gynbrokers.
I believe it goes live soon
Ok. Now listed on Gunbroker. Good luck.
@@thomaswhiteman4261 Thanks!
what a episode, didnt knew they adopted radoms wow
yes, you are defenetely right when you say, " we all are winners", because we are watching your videos, that's one reason.
Never seen such an Expert in German Firearms for a long time, the only few where German and sadly the most passed away during the last decade.....
Greetings from Germany, Matthias
Just a couple of points about the Battle of the River Plate that didn't really come through in your overview. Firstly, one of the three RN warships that engaged Graf Spee off the South American coast, the HMS Achilles, was actually a New Zealand ship, technically part of the 'NZ Division' of the RN. Secondly, your overview doesn't convey the desperate nature of the sea battle that took place between the Graf Spee and the three RN cruisers before the Graf Spee broke off the action and sailed into Montevideo. All four ships were left heavily damaged as a result of the action. The Heavy Cruiser Exeter was so badly damaged she was forced to retire, listing heavily as it did so. The Graf Spee was mortally wounded during the action, having suffered critical damage to her fuel system resulting from a hit from Exeter. The damage was such that without the necessary repairs she was unable to return to a friendly port. Even if she had managed to fight off the RN, she would have ended up dead in the water.
The flag isn't just a Navy battle flag. It's the over all battle flag for the German armed forces as opposed to the national flag which was plain red with a plain black swastika in a white circle
Note the name is Graf Spee and not Spree. Greetings from Holland. Love your vids.
Hector L. -vroege jongens zijn wij 🇸🇱s
Fixed. Thanks
The three P.08 at the and, they are such beauties… (among them, the K-date is Miss Universe!).
When you were showing the Mauser .32, I'm sure you remember the last German sailor that was plucked from the sea in the movie, Lifeboat?
He pulled one of those on the group in the lifeboat.
I have one in my safe, but I was told by our armor that it was a "pocket pistol". Commercial model. I found that part of the video very interesting.
Again, thanks for you great videos.
I love that what hump joke, Young Frankenstein has a special place in my heart
It would seem the German navy had the highest % of decent Germans. Airforce second and most would agree, waffen SS the worst for Nazis who toed the Nazi dogma line.
It does go to show, all Germans weren't murderous scum.
This may sound very odd if not unbelievable but one of the guests at my parents wedding was in the Dutch ss. My father survived Buchenwald.
As my father explained to me, the man was a mechanic who had a family he had to feed.
He figured the man wasn't really free of sin but had already been punishment by the Dutch penal system. Also he was the manager and owner of the factory where my mother worked.
Sorry, made this too long and somewhat off topic.
Once again I thank you for all your research and more importantly, sharing it with the world. You are a good man and may your chosen God bless you.
That's inaccurate. The Luftwaffe was considered second only to the SS as the most National Socialist of the German armed services at the time.
Robert Deen, the navy (marine) people were the higher class people, they were just the normal better German
Actually the Luftwaffe (air force) was second only to the SS for having numbers of party members.
There were still uboat crews who opened up on survivors in lifeboats or in the water with MP40s and MG34-42s. Most of the victims being noncombative merchant marine sailors. I wouldn't paint all the German sailors as saints.
There was that one U-boat captain who tried to save a bunch of people when he torpedoed a ship with many woman and children. He called for help from all nations and as I recall it was going pretty good till an American B25 appeared and figured sinking a U-boat was far more important than the woman and children the U-boat was trying to save. But as I said the U-boat started the whole thing.
War is an ugly thing and no nation is totally free of war crimes.
As the saying goes, the first casualty of war is truth.
Are you free of sin?
Thank you!!!!
very nice guns from golden era :)
Do you apply leather conditioner to the holsters to keep them supple? How do you maintain them? I inherited a bring back byf 41 that is in pristine condition with matching magazines, 4 boxes of ww2 sealed 9mm ammo and a navy marked 39 holster. Along with it was a kriegsmarine dagger. The pistol, however, bears no M marking. The holster is in excellent condition but i am concerned it will degrade over time and want to pass it down
Generally I dont treat the leather as we live in a fairly humid so they dont tend to crack. Mold is more of a problem here. But I have heard collectors in the Western States. (Very Dry) use leather preservative to keep the leather from drying out and cracking.
Good luck with the flag. Great piece of history.
Admiral Graf Spee was not a battleship. She belonged to a class of four warships known to the Kriegsmarine as Panzerschiffe -- armored ships. Her displacement and armor would classify her as a heavy cruiser. However, the Panzerschiffe had a few unusual characteristics that made them exceptional heavy cruisers. Their propulsion was exceptional in that instead of the geared steam turbines that were the international standard in warship propulsion in the 20th century, the Panzerschiffe used diesel engines. Without the need for boilers, Graf Spee and her sisters had space for extra fuel, giving them extraordinary cruising range -- ideal for the sort of lone wolf commerce raiding they were designed for. Graf Spee and the others had 6 280mm guns in two turrets, whereas a treaty-compliant heavy cruiser had 9 or more 203mm guns. These big guns led some members of the British press to call these vessels "pocket battleships", a term without a useful meaning that people sincerely interested in military history should ignore.
I suspect there was thriving market in Graf Spee memorabilia in Montevideo around then. The wreck was quite a attraction. And a tourist trap. Big deal down there. Not much else.
Please update on when the flag listing is up on gunbroker.
Flag is listed now on Gunbroker
Very nice Video.
I hace a question..
the flag is made of wool?
Thank you. I am interested
Greetings from Argentina.
Im not sure. It seems too fine to be wool. Anyone else know? I would guess cotton, but certainly would not bet on it.
@@thomaswhiteman4261 Just spoke to someone who said the flag is WOOL. So I stand corrected.
I have a bayonet from this ship. What is it worth? It was given to me from a sailor from the USS Helena.
He said they went on the graf spee a few times and he picked it up.
We could tell you more if you email us photos. Problem will be any documentation linking it to the ship?
Outstanding....Thank you...! from Ky.
The flag & the Lugers are amazing! I will have to take a look at Gunbroker & maybe place a bid!
That flag is still not available on GunBroker.com
here it is.... www.gunbroker.com/item/872558727
Graf Spee was just a very large Heavy Cruiser with 11inch guns and nothing more
OSTSEE - Baltic Sea (Approximate pronunciation: OST-ZAY)
Cliff hanging at 2:13...
My friend Ott had 2 German flags that his buddy Ferd left him when he died. I was trying for years to get one. Ott went in the nursing home and I asked his wife about it. She said not while he is alive. I respected that as I think the world of them both. Well he passed and a month later she was gone. The first auction company to come in backed out of doing the auction. The flags, dagger, medals, were now gone. A Grandson may have got them Im not sure. I hope so.
and dropping my 6th beverage at 22:19
How many flags did they have because we have the other one. It was given to us by the Captain in Montevideo
HSC's Could have been on board as the ship was re-supplied many times whilst at sea.
That K Luger was amazing.
Those HSC's where ahead of their time in looks but the same could be said about Walthers maybe more so. And yes how special it is to own something carried Untersea and very well should still be down there. I still can't figure out if you are a arms dealer or private collector or a private museum. WOW you got a lot of neat stuff.
i understood that navy lugars had the longer barrel.
Those were the WW1 Navy Lugers. WW2 Navy Luger did not have the long barrel.
Were these stored in a vacuum?
Hey Tom I'm a big ss camouflage nut. Do u come across any ss smoks for sale that are not fake? Any help would be great
We had a dog German schnauzer by the name of Mauser
when the tirpitz was scraped were any guns found ?
The ones you sold, or passed up are the only ones you ever truly regret.
Like no. 567 from west java Indonesia.
What a great movie! Tom, if you’re having a bad day just remember to make a retarded monster voice and belt out; Puttin on the ritz! It will definitely make someone smile and laugh, and there’s a really good chance you too will smiling and laughing too!
As usual, great video! Thank you
I'm sorry, I don't want to be THAT guy, but it's ostsee, not otsee. My wife is a Berliner and I think she may explode if she hears otsee one more time.(I think her boiler may be backed up).
Thanks for the clarification
1936 wasn't the "wiemar period", Hitler came to power in 1933. He already had dictatorial powers after the Riechstag fire.
Would love 2 have it.
Cool name
Great episode!!! Very correct.
lol modern brit fighters spitfire for ex. 303 machine guns against german fighters equipped with cannons
It's beutifull.
sworn testimony with phrase TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEGE? is meaningless.