SW20 MK2 MR2 RACECAR - What's It Like To Drive? ON TRACK
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- Big thanks to Rogue Motorsport for letting me take their Mk2 Arrive & Drive car out for some time at Silverstone. What a car!
If you'd like to enquire further about the Arrive & Drive MR2 Championship offering drop them an email: enquiries@roguemotorsport.com
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At the end of the video you see he's gonna buy one now. It's the pop up headlights. Once you've had them, you have to have them.
ua-cam.com/video/GDtiO29v1Ac/v-deo.html
I need to say thanks for all the text you always do, talking us through the video and how things feel etc, really nice to watch bro 👊👊👊
From now on every time someone thinks im being rude ‘curtesy causes confusion’ words to live by right there
Haha its an old skool highway code saying
I have a Mk3 with 3sgte. Handeling of the Mk3, power of the Mk2. This fusion is legendary
Cheers Dan, interesting stuff. Intrigued to see how the Rogue mk3 compares.
Wow so you've finally tried a real MR2.
Sincerely yours,
An average Gran Turismo enjoyer.
anyone saying the mk2 is better is living in denial
@@tonimartinovic5552 it is better
@@dannyDC2 i dont see a single upside to the mk2 except storage space which is irrelevant, so ecucate me
@@tonimartinovic5552 the 3sge engine doesn't eat itself like a 1zz for start 😂
@@tonimartinovic5552 Watch the video. It's literally him taking both out and explaining why the mk2s are better.
Plus they look 1,00000000000 times better. Can pick em up with 3sgte.
Oh.. and pop ups!
I think the MK2 is a very nice car one of the nicest/Funniest on Nordschleife(that I drove) ,its now 10 years ago that we drove the mk2 over the nordschilfe it's good to hear that engine sound again nice that you can drive test different cars and make a nice video's thank you!
i think the more understeery behaviour of it comes from the stggered tires, the longer wheelbase and probably something with the setup. it beeing a rental, theyve probably dialed in a more stable understeery handling so the cars wont get trown away as easy by thier customers?
be interesting to see how thier mk3 compares to yours now.
These are my exact thoughts. When my mk3 had staggered 205 front 225 rear and just springs and dampers with no added camber or sway bars it understeered predictably and it was great for everything except really tight turns. It also used to be open diff as well which added to the controllable feel. Now with coilovers, thicker swaybar, LSD, square 205s, tons of camber and stiffer chassis, it’s much more stressful to drive. But it’s much faster in autocross at least with the changes.
It has a shorter wheelbase than the mk3 actually.
@@Will_M600 has it? wow didnt know that. looks much bigger overall.
@@99Lezard99 yeah it's very misleading, many people just assume coz its heavier and more gt oriented that it'd be longer. In reality its not. Also interesting fact, the main reason this one understeers so much is because its a later model, the rev1 chassis is by far the best
@@99Lezard99 The mk2 is longer bumper to bumper by almost a foot. But the wheelbase is shorter by 2 inches. Look at the mk3 and you can see how far they pushed the wheels out to the end of the body.
Cooking around there in the mk2 lad! Bang on this content. Interested to see how rouges mk3 compares 👍
Seen a cheeky 205 in same pit, that be fun drive for you 👏👍🏻
Theres definately alot to be said for general geometry fella. My car was horrible once but got better over the years of advice & experimenting but when i have it right its as good as any out there. But there are limits for us and thats why you Mk3 boys are always battling hard with us. As you have said lap times are same and speeds are same. Looking forward to your mk3 V Rogue mk3 comparison, you may just need to get their setup.
Danny... Talking about mk3 brake locking up!
I just remember 1 thing u need to check if your mk3 brake booster have 1way check valve attached to the big booster vaccum hose (to intake manifold)
If your mk3 got that 1eay valve, ditch that valve while keeping stock booster...
U will have better brake modulation without the 1way valve... (Or check valve)
I guarantee u on this brake fix for your spyder
The reputation for snap oversteer.... Ponte New College, year 2000... some guys dad (18, 1st car) bought him a JDM mk2 Turbo, he put it down the side of one of the buses leaving the car park.... it made a bit of a bang!
Big yikes
Good video this. I had a Rev 5, loved it as a road car - it was very, very comfortable, good brakes, the 3SGE is a great sounding 4 pot, and I thought it was a very approachable, easy car to drive quickly. Mine had the factory LSD and had great traction. But then, mine was setup with good tyres, Bilsteins, sensible ride height etc, I only have to presume the 'death machine' thing is because back when they were common it was pretty much the only affordable mid engined car in existence, and people just drove them like tits with crap tyre and no springs. I still went back to MX-5s though!
What!? DannyDC2 is evolving!!!!
DannyDC2 evolved into DannyMR2!
🤣
Traffic like Touristenfahrten @ Nürburgring, whoa
Good to see you having fun!
*Must admit I always liked the MK2 better and who doesn't love a pop up headlight? Cool rating of over 1000 Megafonzies!*
Another great vid, I predict that the Mk3 will feel very different to Dan's racecar too.
Great vid dude, loved it
Really enjoyed that. I’ve been curious about the differences in driving the Mk3 vs. The Mk2 for ages.
Great episode really enjoyed it, former 2zz roadster owner here, keep up the good work
You need to get a Boyo tries windscreen decal for the mr2
You should try an sw20 with a torsen in, and maybe some 205 fronts! Brings a bit of oversteer edge back into the equation, but trading spinning insides for corner exit punch is 10/10
Be better with a plate diff!
@@dannyDC2 The torsen lsd from a generic mk3 gearbox fits, just wants the carrier bearings and ring gear swapped over, 10/10 difference can recommend. Its true tho a clutch pack job would be even better!
People swap 2GR-FE V6's with TRD superchargers in these things. You pretty much have a budget Lotus Exige/Evora afterwards.
P.S. need to hear your thoughts on a mk1 now too
Danny DC2 good car status for the mk2 mr2, prices go up worse than they already are 😆 looking forward to part 2 to see is the rogue mk3 is similar or different to yours.
this looks like a late revision, the earlier revisions (1+2) had more aggressive suspension (less understeer more oversteer) and was arguably better
Yer listening to the streets
Lock down your aerial
Car is clearly setup for understeer. Keeps the car stable and less likely to loose time over a lap then a car with over steer which can cause lost by time fighting the car to keep it on the track facing the right way.
So it’s nothing to do with 195/225, open LSD, and 200kg more mass? Come on..
There's a reason people who have owned an sw20 ALWAYS come back to them. I've owned roadsters alongside my SW's but never could i own a roadster alone. The mk2 is such an involving and eventful drive that as soon as you don't have one you want one again. Mine is currently laid up with head gasket gone but i cannot wait to have it back on the road.
The standard road cars are totally different characters too. The Mk2 feels more like a sporty GT in a lot of ways in standard form. I suppose those characters stick with the changes made for the championship spec. I much prefer the old 3SGE to the 1ZZ as well, power delivery differences aside its just a far more characterful engine. 3SGE proved very reliable for me as well over ~100k miles on the road. Its turbo counterpart not so much 😂
Unsurprisingly the Rogue car is very well set up - I'd be curious as to what geometry its running front and rear as there are physical differences with Rev1 (90-91) and Rev2-5 (1992-1999) and the parts are interchangable. I know a couple of hill climb guys and some circuit people in the US swear by the Rev1 rear setup, which is a bit more bitey. They're all running in regulations that allow for modifications though so I've no idea how they compare in something more restricted like the MR2 Championship. Did you drive their Mk3 in the end as well? If so looking forward to the next one!
But the 1zz is a much easier engine to work on when something goes wrong. I knew he would be looking aat the MK2 after his last video.
@@heilong79 Fortunately my 1ZZ W30 has been reliable and I've had to do very little other than servicing and timing chain tensioner, but I can't see how either a 1ZZ or a 3SGE would be any easier than other to work on if something goes wrong tbh. Anything major and the engine is coming out in either car anyway.
@@SonicSW20 When out of the car it is no issue as you say, it is when you just have a driveway and getting access, When I had an mk3 it was so easy to do most things, after having a 1JZ and 2JZ they are all great and straightforward to work on.
No seen if you've done a breakdown here but reading your points at 15;52 I'd agree
-Mk3 front grips much better, more of a "gokart feel", mk2 feels more "wafty", more torque more power more weight, harder to slow down, less chuckable
-from watching your footage, far far less countersteer in the mk2, assume due to much more understeer on mk2 than MK3
-seems odd your MK3 has such worse breaking than mk2
-would be really interesting to see a side by side on the same track in both cars, guarantee your steering inputs would be far more frantic in mk3
Your description of the drive sound very similar to my MK1. I was at Donington the other day after a big round of suspension changes and now I have something that's totally confident over bumps, has what feels like unlimited turn in but you need to set it up right otherwise it'll push wide on power after the apex
Yes it felt like it was killing the left front tyre but by the end of the day it still looked fine and it was a pleasure to drive home
I've racked my brain to work out how to dial out the power on understeer after the apex but truth be told it could be driver error or even pressures.. so rather than obsess over modifications I'll focus on driving
Can't help thinking I want upgraded arbs now as the spring rate isn't particularly high and it does have lean
Have you tried a square tire size set up? The ARBs would help a lot as well
I reckon it's all in the setup. They know what they're doing at Rogue.
Alignment can only do so much. The rest is pretty much normal stuff. I'm convinced it's just the stagger compared to mk3 championship cars
@@dannyDC2 Weight, stagger, alignment and different body shapes (different aero that comes with it). It feels/looks like you would be better in an mk2 than you were in the mk3
The mk3's have tiny wheels due to very small arches. The mk2's can take larger and wider wheels which means more grip/traction. You don't see big power mk3's but you do see big power mk2's (Boosted Bois twin turbo K24)
@@Vittinable yep, exactly. I did touch on this on the vidya
@@johnmitchell2269 I ran 7" front 8" rear on my Kswap MR-S no problems. There's plenty of big power mk3s too. The wheelbase is longer on a mk3
One of my friends in Spain was running 255 rear tyres with stock body panels. Its possible
Did you have a stint in the mk3 to compare how that is to your own? Interesting video, quite surprising how they are so different.
Yep, video on that inbound
Awh man now I'm motivated to finish mine knowing how well you think of it
Great video, so interesting to get a comparison. Would love to know if there is a time difference in the laps
Lap times are very similar in the championship
Great video as always, would be really cool to see the video on there mk3 and to hear your thoughts in comparison to your own
I've never driven an MR2, but I find a lot of older performance cars are easier to drive myself, like you said, you feel everything more. Newer cars with light steering and a million computers controlling everything for you have a certain numb feeling.
Danny let's make one thing clear Toyota built stronger cars in the 90s and that's a fact. 3sge engine Are good strong reliable engine rev3 is 176hp standard . 1z haven't a patch and as you have seen won't take the pressure for long . Your style of driving where you like to push it out to the curb the MK2 with the extra weight will benefit your style .
Can’t wait to see the new MK2! 😂👍
Nice video, but why did you go with the stock wheels, they are very narrow compared to a aftermarket stagered set of wheels
Two Streets references
Interesting it's so much more stable. The steering box looks to be slower to me which must tone it down, there's a lot more wheel angle going on, but I wonder if the understeer and stability is courtesy of Rogue's suspension setup and alignment - they don't want any old pleb turning up and backing their car into the scenery after all. Very interested to see the mk3 video.
I would agree steering feels slower, but it does have a much bigger wheel on it too. Probably 60mm bigger diameter than my mk3!
Your square setup and stuff rear sway bar is what makes it so likely to oversteer.
I don’t have square setup! I don’t like square on any car
Very interesting to see the difference, maybe test their mk3 to check it's set up. The layout of the car obviously makes a big difference to the handling, centre of gravity ect. Do they have mk1's in the line up?
Either way the MK2 is a way better looking car.
Excellent video 👍👍
Nice test comparison, curious what you think of their MK3.
Is there info regarding the suspension mods on this car?
Dan, SW20 MR2 with any K series Honda engine of your choice and any mods of your choice. OR, an S2 Exige 240 cup bone stock. What would appeal to you more (forget about the money, just hypothetically)
Exige would be better no contest. They don't compare
Maybe setup is better? I used to have a mk2 turbo. My MR2 had all kinds of issues including gears that grind. Maybe time for you to switch cars. Mk2 is cooler in every way.
Had a few really involving cars, modern cars just do not do that and the 3sge makes a lovely noise.
What was done to the car suspension wise? Appart from coilovers I mean. Geomentry rca adjuscters maybe?
no coilovers, just springs and polybushes
That makes your MK3 look incredibly stressful to drive!
How much is the easier handling down to Patrick’s setup do you think?
It's not Patrick's setup put it that way. This car is as it raced this year
so weird to have understeer like that, there must be some setup going on there
195 front
225 rear
It’s how it should be
@@dannyDC2 sure, the stock sizes. just odd to see so much front wash from it. kinda got that problem with a very locking diff but none of my past na cars had that much push
the thing i enjoy most with the mr layout is the early throttle on corner exit. the front is always on point.
kinda had the issue in the snow with only studs on the rear on an ice track but that's a whole different game.
don't see it from the onboards or offboards from the championship cars so much. could it have been setup that way for customers? do you know what pressures the tyres were at?
I'll chuck you the keys to mine if we meet on a track day.
entertaining vid as always. good luck for next season and with the dc2
Car was set up the same as it won the class this year! It was more inexperienced driver I think
I bet its setup to understeer with it being a rental car, engine wise it sounds like a meatier throatier version of the lump in yours.
I'm not buying that at all, I've been trying to get my mk3 to understeer all year and it's just not having it. This is natural Mk2 in 195/225 with a guy driving who's used to a mk3
@@dannyDC2 thats fair enough, I suppose the extra weight and longer wheelbase helps to make it more neutral/understeer, it certainly looks like you can get on it with more confidence.
I think this is actually shorter wheel base than a mk3!
Mk2 is definitely the best mr2!!!! 👌
Seems you hint a different opinion on the mk3? In the next post.
3SGE is also superior
Take a shot every time he says 'Mark 2'
PS. Loving the content Danny
oh yeah and the snap oversteer legends are probably down to unexperianced owners i belive.
they feel like they can take that corner, they see they cant, they lift off = desaster. then Toyota revised the cars and made them more stable. i would bet my left testicle a non revised early mk2 in the right hands would get praised for beeing a fun car for experianced drivers.
ive heard also some horror storys of ap1 s2000 beeing snappy and all that. nowadays most people seem to look for exactly that.
Iguana
Is the car not just set up to understeer? (Stiffer at front and tyre pressures) So everyone doesn't bin their car? 😂 I did that for a while after I binned mine to get confidence back up
Doubt it
Why doubt it, it makes perfect sense for a hire company. Adjustable dampers can change the behaviour of a car very easily, stiffening up the front would be simple, and sensible (for hiring out).
@@duncanajpv8 because I drove the car lol. They don't have adjustable dampers
Seems inconsistent?
Mostly understeer, sometimes over?
Lack of LSD is readily apparent.
Looks less overall fun than ZZW30.
Agreed but the mk2 arguably looks smoother and faster though. Dans mk3 seems to require a lot more input to keep it pointing forward. Be intresting to see how he gets on in rouges mk3 comparatively
Exactly that Mr Pan. Fun =/= fast
@@dannyDC2
Do ya know, I’ve always wondered what would be more fun, a 1ZZ race car, or a 2ZZ road car? And what would be faster?
What lap times were you doing by at Combe?
That's an odd thing to fantasise about. I would say the 2ZZ and 1ZZ are very much the same engine other than the top end, so naturally a 2ZZ would be faster. A 2ZZ is just a 1ZZ with a bit more
1:20.69 is my quickest time at Combe in the MR2
So I couldn’t tell if you enjoyed it or not lol.
I take it the MK2 is a more expensive build!?
Have you bought one yet?? 😉 it looked so much more composed!
Jus 1 min in and lovin the vid 👍👍
Will we see you in a MK2 MR2 next season?
Are the mk2's not allowed to run an lsd ?
Nope
Looks you should buy an mk2!
Dude, think you are making a big mistake walking away from the MR2 scene so soon. I know they are not your first choice but after just 1 season, you have caught the attention of Patrick. You could have honed your craft and would have probably been picked up by rogue, imagine racing where you don't have to fix, pay for and tune your car on your own. Just might be a bit premature (TWSS) to walk away just now
That’s not how it works dude. These cars are for hire, the grids are already brimmed. Everyone at this level must pay to play! Whether that be by hiring or by building your own
More of a GT car. Snap oversteer was fixed pretty much by the rev2+. They changed the geometry and suspension quite a bit. MK3 is more of a go-cart.
They changed the geometry? Do you mean wheel alignment or were pickup points moved?
@@dannyDC2 Thicker anti roll bars and control arms. Different mounting points for the trailing arms and subframe to suit. Different shocks/springs. Bigger brakes. Bigger wheels wider tyres.
@@dannyDC2 Doesn't really matter, most mk2 are from 1992 aka rev 2 where all these changes were made. Very few people have an 89-91 rev 1
So my theorie is as you said its confidence inspiring so people brake less and less and try to enter corner lifting off so they dont understeer but then the snap oversteer happens?
It's when people come off the gas mid corner.
Usually due to miscalculation of the corner
They were cheap powerful cars, I think it was just idiots buying them, Impreza's aren't hard to drive but enough got crashed. Going from a FWD car to a 300bhp mid engine car what could go wrong?
@@user-ue6iv2rd1n Exactly, I've had my 400bhp one for over 10 years and no issues
Didn't these come with a v6 and a turbo in NZ lel
Theres a nice track mk2 up for sale currently 👀👀
There's loads of them
I stopped looking because I want them all..latest one I saw was a black one with yellow bits on? Looked pretty decent for the money
Yeah there's a few out there. Think if I was buying one it'd have to be from Rogue... If they'd let me. Need to do some man maths
Snap Oversteer happened a lot when idiots drove them on back roads and didn't actually know how to drive...
mk2 can use coilovers instead of shock an spring
Nope
@@dannyDC2 u sure? mate has tein coilovers on his mk2
Well yeah I mean in the championship
@@dannyDC2 oh, that's weird.
Hi Dan, the rev1 understeers alot less than the one you were driving. I think itd be worth you getting behind the wheel of a properly setup rev1!
That being said, I'm not sure what I have (rev1 with rev3 engine) is allowed in the championship
Do it
Looking at Insta it looks like you have another mk3 so I would assume the the rougue mk3 is better still than the mk2 you drive here? Is your mk3 proper munted or something? Do we have to wait till the next video to find out?
Where are you seeing another mk3? 🤔
@@dannyDC2 Instagram. White with red wheels in the Autobahn. Am I mistaken?
Ohhh that's Jspec's 2ZZ, I was just setting the suspension up on it before blowing it up on track. Video will be up soon
@@dannyDC2 ah right, fair play. Look forward to it man.
@@dannyDC2 lol 2zz on track. ive heard some storys of these engines. 😆 apparently they need a good baffeling, something with the cam bolts is wrong, something with the oil pump and oil temp issues.
😬
Looks and sounds a bit understeery. If it isn’t full of oppo is it even an mr2 on this channel?
How different is it to the mk3?
Not much, apparently....
Pft come on
Slam a V6 in ... = transformed
yep my v6 mr2 was the best one of the lot that ive owned.
Cult classic not best seller
100% looks way more predictable that mk2. Think you should get an s13 200sx personally :P
Like I said in my last comment WEIGHT TRANSFER! Why do you think it feels so good on the brakes more weight being put over the front axle. Look how much it dives down compared to your mk3 under heavy load. The car will is tuned for understeer to make it more user friendly and most drivers prefer push understeer as it's far more controllable again a very easy dynamic to tune into most chassis.
And again you say it takes the bumps better because the car is much softer than yours I could go into great detail but I feel like you don't want to listen so I shall not waste my time any more than I have already lol.
Sell the mk3 and buy the mk2 !! Simple ☺
buy a mk2 then, go on