This just in: going from total newbie to full-on tourney going meta-slave & running a channel based on battlereports almost exclusively, turning the hobby into a full on job within a year results in not enjoying said hobby anymore, more after this.
I sort of understand the analogy... the problem is that almost everybody seems to be driving 130mph. Otherwise, most of the problems he talked about wouldn't actually *be* problems because the community would have reigned in GW.
Sounds like most of the things you hated were tied to tournament play in some way. If you were just playing with 2 armies, friends, and at a local game store. No one cares about proxies, 3d prints, old models, imperfect bases etc.
Yea I haven't had any issues getting into AoS at my local store. Super easy to dive in. Everyone has an extra rulebook, and if they don't, the store owner does. I haven't paid for anything I wasn't already ok paying for as a vanity item.
Unfortunately, I think you really did yourself a disservice playing 40k as a content creator. Playing casually with friends or at a local game store basically eliminates all of these problems. I completely agree that GW sucks in many different ways and they don't have their player base's best interest in mind, but you don't have to play at this level of commitment. Just slow down, enjoy the modeling/painting, enjoy the lore & themes, enjoy the beer & pretzels, save they hypercompetitive meta chasing for something else that is supported in the way you need to be able to still enjoy that.
Just wanted to throw out there too that this video made me very sad since his documentary was what pushed me to get into this hobby that I love so much. Nothing that he said was completely invalid, but there are ways around it.
As someone who plays casually, I bought the Genestealer Cult ninth edition codex, tried to play a game, couldn't, and then went into hobbying for a bit, and played one game with the new codex before it was obsolete. I spent $40 on a paperweight.
This is like when a girlfriend defends her abusive boyfriend. No game should have these many problems to play competitively. Maybe, just maybe, he doesn't find casual playing fun and wants to play competitively. It's simple, he wants to play the game at a competitive level and can't.
yuuuuuuup! I encourage you to keep painting if you like it though! It takes exactly as much time as you feel like devoting to it every week, and your hobby progress can't get wiped by GW every 6 months. Also, acrylic paints are pretty safe as long as your kid isn't sucking them down or living inside of your airbrush booth :-)
I don't wanna dismiss your legitimate criticisms of GW as a company, for sure they're awful. But multiple 2000 point armies, all meta chasing, buying all the books, 500 dollars a month? Really seems an average case of going too far off the deep end and burning yourself out.
@@poeskey It's super easier to get excited, buy a bunch of stuff, and get yourself burnt out in this hobby. Especially if you're buying directly from GW lol
@@LetsQuackAboutIt In the end it's relative. Even if he's making what industry estimates say, all that could be committed elsewhere and $500 a month burdensome.
Anyone I've seen exiting 40k angrily has almost always been due to meta chasing. If you don't chase the top builds and units all of the time, it isn't that expensive of a game. Certainly not 500$ a month.
@@sweetboygreeny3855 I don't think that's true at all. You don't have to make optimized lists to excite audiences. Plenty of Battle Report channels play suboptimal lists.
@@sweetboygreeny3855Bricky’s first LVO video is my go to for the antithesis of this mindset. Pre-codex Night Lords for the funnies, not to win. His second video hits this even harder even with a better army, he easily could’ve gone Votann and wipe the floor, but he decided to go about it with his favorite army instead and pick the suboptimal archetype… and he went 4-2!
I'm 15 mins into the video and I've just been screaming "Use the damn official app for the updates and rules!!!???" Like dude is complaining about needing to buy white dwarf for updates when the Warhammer just updates for free as long as you own the initial first codex for whatever army you play ... BRUH
Dude's saying a lot of things are mandatory to enjoy the hobby. Gaming mats, extra gaming mats, plane tickets, event tickets, hotel fees. . . . Oof. Seems like man woulda enjoyed the hobby if he treated it as a hobby.
He's more passionate than most for sure, he would be their target audience if he wasn't aware and more complacent with all their BS. If he does tournaments, understandable, he's competitive, it's a bit more than a hobby at that point.
@ChrisKCook yee I've only ever watch like play on tabletop bc they ran games with the warlord titans and midwinter minis and other adjacent painting channels
As many have echoed, this sounds like you did exactly what everyone says not to do. You meta-chased; you over-invested; you min-maxxed; you didn't utilize your community resources. With particular regards to the updated models, if I recall correctly, GW has said you just have to put old models on updated bases. Moreover, they've even said just use the bases the models came with. I think your video is very ad hominem in the fact that you continually cite that you have to do X, Y and Z. You also say that enjoyment in the game is based in "drinking the kool-aid." No one makes you do anything, and enjoyment can stem from multiple aspects of the game as you correctly pointed out. This is a hobby, and the fact that you're criticizing that a hobby takes time is kind of petty imho. This comes off whiny and petulant. If this is the standard of your future content, you might as well just focus on the family.
It’s unfortunate to hear 40K left a really bad taste in his mouth but honestly 90% of the things he hated were essentially self inflicted. My advice to anyone in the hobby and especially just joining it is to NOT CHASE THE META, play/buy to win and collect a bunch of armies right from the start. Just slowly expand your army with the units you enjoy and play for fun with friends! At the end of the day for me at least it’s about the building/painting/kit bashing and occasionally rolling some dice with peoples whose company I enjoy. Not buying everything that is “strong” at the moment and entering a bunch of sweaty tournaments where my enjoyment is inherently tied to winning.
Yeah, my "lowest point" at which I had to take a break to actually focus on work and college was buying two to three big boxsets a year xD So that's like, 50 bucks a month, I'm pretty sure Now I'm slowly going back to painting minis and just returned from a campaign played with some pals
Hobbies can be expensive. Im into cars and you said that shit to me id laugh at you. You cant say "its on them" for enjoying something that requires you to spend a bit more then usuall thats literally what its like having a hobby. Like damn
Most of these problems are fixed if you play the game as a normal person with a casual mindset and use online resources for books tho. Nobody is pointing you a gun and making you buy new models that are meta or just newer sculpts of some you already have. And it's absolutely not a good competitive game, even if GW wants to make you believe so.
Every mini painting Channel has to address 40k at some point periodically , just because algoriths. BUT...there are a loooot of other games to paint minis for, to say nothing of just painting minis for their own sake, not associated with anything.
I'm gonna be real, if you aren't a content creator, and if you aren't playing in tournaments almost all of these complaints are null and void. Get together with your friends, use the core rulebook, ignore the updates unless your friends or group want to specifically play one of the updates. I don't play warhammer 40k personally, but this entire video more or less sounds like Matt venting about the whole content creation side of it. Normal people aren't going out of their way to do every tournament or make videos where you feel pressured to always be up to date to show the new shiny things. No hate, but don't take this video as if it's geared towards casual players.
Sadly this is not true. It's true for every other hobby, but not Warhammer. Warhammer is expensive, and you HAVE to be up to date. Being behind one update to your army can literally be the difference of if you're able to use half the models you have. And being up to date is also important because of balance, because it is very unfun for the person you're playing with if you just wipe them out in two turns. This is very common for warhammer balance. So you spent thousands of dollars to get these models and make them battle ready, and some random dude or your best friend just obliterates them into dust before they even get a chance to do anything. It's very frustrating. Usually it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but you have to invest so much money and TIME in the models, because you have to buy them, assemble them, paint them, give them load outs etc. You play Barbie with hundreds of plastic dudes and you get very attached to them, so when they are unjustly destroyed it feels personal. So EVERYONE stays up to date. And staying up to date is both time and money consuming.
Also, buying terrain is even more expensive, and the average player does NOT have terrain. So most players play at a Local Games Workshop Store, or a normal LGS. A LGWS is not going to allow you to play on their tables with your friends if you have illegal models. An LGS might, depends how insane the owner is. So again, you either buy terrain, which is expensive, or you go full on in on the hobby, which is where most people stand
@@Swift_LNwhat? Who buys GW terrain? Just buy one of those cheap "train town terrain" kits at a hobby store and you have house, bridges, trees, sometimes even cars or farm houses. Point is cheap terrain. It's even pre-painted!
This video isn't geared towards casual players, or anyone else for that matter. It is why he, MagiKarpUsedFly, quit. However, as stated by some others, in order to do official play, you need official models and so forth. Which he seemed to enjoy.
@@Dymetreus many official tournaments also don't care as long as they were sold like that. Only GW run tournaments (which is mostly warhammer world) require the work he is describing. I had my termigaunts on their old bases and the TO said it was fine because that's how I bought them
il be honest, on the book front iv been playing for like 2 and a half years now with 2 different armies, 9th and 10th edition, and i never once baught a book the most recent codex i have is the 3rd edition CSM codex from like 20+years ago and idk why i have that with how easy to use things like battlescribe, tabletop battles, and wahapedia are, and how frequently they are updated unless you REALLY want to use all the new rules the week they come out, your fine, just wait for them to be updated you only "need" the books if your going to an official tournament or something (and i bet most still allow it even without) if your just playing buddys or small stores, you never need to buy a book also on the whole "you buy a unit and in 3 months its bad" thats the price of "meta chasing" everyone i know (and most i dont) have always said you buy what looks cool regardless if its good or not, anything thats good now will eventually be bad, everything thats bad now will at some point be good, just get the thing you like the look of, not whats going to do well on the table
I needed someone to say this. I was having a tough time with Warhammer, I only joined because of my friends, I thought Ad-Mech would be fun, and I realized halfway through painting my army that the copter that I had was useless. It was honestly my most favorite part of my army and I put so much work into it. And it would get blown up because by Games Workshop standards, it shows up a turn later to be a sitting duck. At this point I spent 400 dollars on something I realized I hated because I apparently have less control of what I could do according to the rules. After that I couldn’t even get into playing, even one time actually bought it but someone was like “But bro, like no offense, but you’re gonna lose”. Honestly, my only favorite thing about warhammer by this point is the lore and Darktide
I feel you, almost everyone I know been there- done that in regards to building and painting just to find out said stuff is dead weight. Its at the point that even if the rules improved I have 0 interest playing any GW product. This company will never bother making a good game.
"everything i hated about warhammer were either problems i created myself, or problems i threw money at instead of being sensible" almost every complaint he had has been sloved by 10th
Sad tho that dice check died, I remember sending some night lords (just a few models) that way when Bricky said he is gonna start them and after that the fan mail videos stopped, lol I know the crew was under no obligation to show what fans send, but I would also lie if I said that didnt hurt a whole bit.
Maybe it's because I joined in late 9th but from what I understand, your point is: "I like playing, building, painting, and the community. I don't like being competitive and trying to please others." I don't know how most of that is warhammer's fault. But your choice is yours. I just don't entirely get it. The price thing is fair tho
A lot of this is valid, but 500$ a month to stay current? No way man, I play tournaments all the time, and I spend nowhere near that. Plus, you are talking about super sweat min-maxxing, and you might be scaring off people who want to have fun. Sure, my cool dreadnought isn't S-tier, but it is alright and it is fun to play with. There's a million ways to have fun outside of turbo sweating
Hell, imagine trying to paint $500 dollars of models in a month, while having a job and other responsibilities. It sounds like he made it his entire life and absolutely burned himself out on it till he hated it.
@@doublestarships646 it doesn't. Unless you are meta-chasing with multiple armies, or you're redesigning your army from the ground up, it will never cost you $500 a month.
I'm sorry man, but I think you just ruined it for yourself. Meta-chasing in any TTG turns out like this. Not just Warhammer Edit: accidentally called it a TTRPG oops 😂
Sorry, but I don't agree with you. There are a lot of other wargames with a much more stable and subtle meta that won't force the player to refresh his own army every 6 months in order to not get tabled on turn 1. GW games have always been the worst offenders in this context, and I don't find it accurate or fair to bundle all other wargames with them.
@@ivanbigazzi Turn 1 tabling is has not been a thing for years now in 40k. Unless someone is not using proper terrain but that is not the problem with game itself.
This mans entire existence is aimed at giving his community whiplash with each video "oh btw I quit League" "oh btw I am a really good movie maker" "oh btw I am no longer chubby but fit and slender" "oh btw I have A FUCKING GROWN ASS KID" All the best to you and your family Matt, but goddamn did these news make me feel old.
Holy shit what kind of twist is that I used to watch you back in high school when you were a league of legends youtuber, now i stopped playing league a long time and havent watched you in years, and now ive been playing Warhammer 40000 for 2 years, and you were recommanded randomly with this video it's like making a circle again
bro you can literally just use wahapedia and have every single rule and datasheets in 40k for free, updated consistently and super well organized. Been playing 40k for 7 years and never spent a single dime on books. Also don't complain about the changing meta if you're playing like a meta chaser. Your unit becomes less optimal? keep playing with it. Who cares if it's less optimal? Here's how playing a 40k game is for 99% of the playerbase : make list with units you have at home, plan game with friends, show up, open wahapedia, start clock, play and have fun. A 2k vs 2k game should last 3h30 (5 hours for a regular match is absolute insanity and you must have been playing in slow mo, there's no wayyyy). Also, there's zero pressure to buy anything, this sounds like an impulse spending issue and lack of self control. You don't necessarily have to go to events and tournaments every single week like how would you not get burned out doing that? You're not a pro player, you're not forced to attend these. You say terrain and game mats are expensive but there is a million ways to build those for free or you can play at local game stores/ clubs and use their tables as well. You say there is no army diversity because you only played against the same people over and over again and attended try hard tournaments. But if you played casually, you would realize it's pretty much impossible to encounter two people playing the same list. No matter how bad your army is, if you play well and luck is on your side, you always have a chance at winning. If you always lose no matter what, it just means you're bad at the game or the people you're going against are better at it than you. The time you allocate to your hobby is your own choice, you don't need to do everything all at once or grind at all and you don't need to drop out from your other hobbies either, sounds again like a lack of self control and discipline issue. Love your channel and used to be a dicecheck viewer so I got no hate for you but it's a bit sad that you resent this hobby so much simply because you chose to do it in the most toxic/bad way possible. I understand you wanted to make it your job to play 40k but you gotta realize that any passion will feel like trash once it becomes your extended workplace
Genuinely absolutely brutal GW killed 9th immediately after releasing the codex. I know it will never happen but I would kill for GW to take an extra year or two in 10th and drop all the codices for 11th in the first year or so.
@ryanglover3867 but then there's no power creep and constant revenue of money for them 😢 They would starve with their measly 30% profit margins when most companies don't even reach 5%
it seems like, this dude over indulges in something until he hates it then blames whatever it is instead of accepting that he just has an addictive personality until he hates it.... just like he did with league...
I hate GW as much as the next guy but I agree, he also way over-exaggerates how bad things are. You don't need to buy any books, the core rules are free and everything else is on wahapedia and you 100% don't need to buy the new version of the model to play it, that's just a crazy thing to say.
Idk I've been a casual player since 4th edition and I agree with everything he said. Love the models and the IDEA of the game but the rules are lacking and GW seems to care about selling product 50x more than making a fun, well supported game.
to play tournies, some of the most fun he clearly has with the game, he's right on everything he said That powercreep point is just 100% right, we are still seeing it with the recent Orkz codex making them the top thing in 10th. It's still going around man. You can say that there are things about how he plays the game that made these problems overexpressed (being a tourney player and a content creator) But either way I say do a second-take before jumping in the way of a bullet heading for a big company's head, if it's about predatory habits which most of the video is, there's a huge chance it's correct on some level.
I respect you trying to break away from toxicity, but this is a whole new breed for you. You were obsessive to a massive dentrimental level, and you are to blame. I wish and hope you acknowledge that. At no point, ever, did you have to buy something. You were 25+ years old at the time, but you did not act like it. You made poor decisions, and frankly a lot of them. GW is not a good company, but your metaphor with needles is not the best. Heroine is bad. 100%. But going through models is not innately bad. It's something you have to take your time with. It can be incredibly theraputic but you treated as if a video game. Your actions of spending insane amounts of money, going by huge bulkz, and having an unhealthy mentality executing everything is what did you in. Not GW, not models, just you as a person. Im not trying to belittle you, but when you came back, I had legit hope you were doing better. Im not saying go back into the game, and honesty, dont even go back into the hobby. It is not for you, but I hope you do get better. I know the past year has been really rough for you and thank you for sticking to it, but you got some more growing up to do man. Keep going! Thank you for the videos and podcasts with dice check.
Wholeheartedly agree with this. His points on the Cost of Enjoyment section were all self-inflicted. I got no sense of him taking responsibility for his financial actions. I've been in this hobby for 20+ years and its flawed as heck, but back when I started it it was exactly that, a hobby. You don't have terrain? Make some, your house is full of materials and junk that with a lick of paint and glue could look epic. Constantly feeling like you're buying paints and brushes? You can maintain your materials better, clean your brushes, transfer your paints to an airtight container and keep them in a cool place. I think some better decision making and introspection here could have helped him.
500 a month is insane. Ive been playing for 13 years and at top tiers of competitive for 5 and even when i was meta chasing scum costs never got that high. Insane take tbh. And specially now in 10th you might need your codex code and every so often the mission deck. Every other update is digital and free now.
Oh man. I’ve been waiting for this day. It’s like when my parents told me they were getting divorced, but I had sat for 3 years waiting for the announcement.
I spent like a few hundred for 2k points of Greyknights at 2014 and played with them since. Unlike any other army, they hadn't really changed in such away that I needed to buy more models.
Yeah... A lot of these issues you have are more so a you problem. All the rules can be found online for free. You don't have to keep chasing the meta. Old models can still be used. Want to try a model out? Print out a picture of it and glue it to cardboard. You don't have to spend so much money. Damn.
Maybe try listening to what he's saying. If X gets updated, then it makes the old X obsolete, so you have to get the new one to stay current with the rules.
@@MrHoneuma, first, Matt specified that he was referring to when he mostly played, which was 8th and 9th edition. Secondly, did they walk back charging for updates in the app? Because last year they said that only the core rules and combat patrol data sheets would be free. That's only one of his complaints, model updates making old models unusable is still relevant.
@Logank192 You don't need any of it. Need is a rather strong word, majority of 40k fans are at their houses or local game stores playing the way they want.
When the kid is a bit older and you’ve got more time, you should try playing Kill Team. Only 5-15 models to play, lots of single box teams, play in 2 hours or less. Less terrain needed too. It’s the most dad-friendly way to play.
It's interesting that a lot of the points that you made in the Journey to Warhammer-videos with enjoyment and use of models, as well as the obsoletion and annoyance at the books and that, remain as valid now as they were those 4 years ago.
Except they're not, and you'd know that if you were actually playing the current edition. Core rules are free and in an app. Only books to worry about are a codex. All supplements and updates are free and released as pdfs. You're whining about a problem that doesn't exist anymore.
@@MrHoneuma wat? yeah, the problem is still real! You can say it is less, but you still need a lot of things to keep up with the game, and the best way is not with GW, WHPD keeps the game alive for a lot of people
@@leonardogoncalves5372 the only real issue is codexes becoming obsolete, which isn't really an issue at all. print off errata and attach it to the codex. There is no way to prevent codexes from becoming less accurate. Most of the rest of his points were the result of meta chasing.
Comparing table top 40k to a video game might be one of the biggest mental traps I keep seeing in this hobby. The hours painting and assembling are supposed to be enjoyment! Not a barrier to entry to play a game. You can tell this guy was a league player.
but it's still *stuff* that you have to do in order to enjoy it. I'd love to get into 40k on the tabletop but I never will because I despise painting anything that isn't a wall. I have poor fine motor control (thank you, concussions and fat fingers) and little patience for finicky details when there isn't an "undo" button. and I'll never be able to afford to pay someone to do a decent job of making an army for me because I'm a normal-ass guy struggling to pay bills like everybody else. it's way too big a barrier for someone like me and that really sucks.
the problem is that, some models are reslly nice to paint, taking tyranids for exemple, painting your flying hive tyrant can be really cool, but when you're doing your 27th tarmagant it reslly does feel like a chore, and sure you can specifically only buy models that you find cool and want to play, but when they nerf them right after, it feels like you wasted money and time on something you cant even play (especially things like forgeworld models or models that dont grt rules anymore) for example, i took a lot of time painting a lion el johnson for darl angels, and even if the wrmy wasn't the best way to play space marines, i still liked them, then when they announced the new codex and stopped supporting a lot of older dark angel models as well as nerfing really badly lion, it kinda just demoralizes you
There was a lot of interesting points in the video, but it felt like it became a bit of a vent post during the second half. A lot of games aren't perfect, and we all need to find out how much effort we want to put into something we enjoy. Overall a lot of interesting things to think about and a few points I agree with, 9th edition had a lot of problems that I feel 10th edition has fixed.
I am up to 22:40, but I feel like you are the one causing your own problems. Yes, the books are annoying and, frankly, there needs to be a better way. But who needs multiple mats, ten sets of terrain, and every new model that comes out? You are going so hard for the tournament side of the game. You do know that there never used to be a competitive version; it was just open play. I play a game once a month if I'm lucky, and it takes me longer to paint a unit. However, this is why I think you dislike the game currently. You made your hobby your job, and you felt pressured to stay current with every release and rule, so you burnt yourself out. Go play a game without cameras or a time limit. Play it like that video game-just for the fun of it. You don't need to update your models. People still go to tournaments with the original Space Marines; they just update the bases. Try not to compare yourself to others and play for yourself. Better still, stop with the tournaments and just play at your local store. Do the things you like: throw dice and drink beer.
Im sorry what? 99% of people in Warhammer as a hobby isnt doing any of that. Who the fuck meta chases to that point? 500$ a month? JFC. Andno its not a "but i had to because i had a channel or had to make content" problem, i really doubt most people who do content spends that much. Im pretty sure it was a you problem
I have been a wargamer for over 20 years. Been playing 40k since third edition and have invested way too much time in money in this hobby. I thought I was a lifetime player cause there was no way I could walk away from something that has been a huge part of my life for over two decades. GW over the past two years finally managed to make me quit 40k. Didn't think it was possible but it is like they are actively trying to drive players away with FOMO marketing, terrible rulesets, bad balancing, and locking overpriced models inside even more overpriced box sets. I now play OnePageRules, Crisis Core, Legion, basically anything not Games Workshop.
Fellow 3rd edition guy here. I have the exact same feelings. Good to know you too found a benefit in it. 🙂 I was in that GW bubble so long, i'd never even considered trying something else. But holy heck are there many waaaay better systems out there. Haven't bought anything GW in the last 5 years or more.
I started in 7th, and mostly it was the game after 8th, but the marketing sure didn't help. I've fallen in love with Malifaux since then, been having a blast. Rules are literally free, data cards for each unit come with the models, less than $200 gets you not just a list, but most possible builds for that whole faction, cards for objectives and errata updates come out once a year-ish, they're all free in app but if you want physical cards it's $15 for every updated card.
Matt, if you have a 3D printer and just really like painting I would recommend learning how to just make your own figurines. You can create or use models people have made, print them colorless, and then do the painting yourself. No worrying about getting the new thing twice a year, you can make the figure scale whatever size you like, and if you decide you don't want it anymore you can probably just sell it to a friend. It's a fun hobby.
I agree with most of your points, and while i agree with the cost of rules and books being stupidly high, i think your issues with the cost are kinda unique haha. Most people who are playing arent running a channel, or maintaining multiple 2k+ armies.
except now those rules are free and the only book you need to worry about for your army is a codex, and only if you want the rules day 1, because they'll be online for free within a few days. All supplements and updates are free pdfs as well.
@@FiveStringChe's giving a false impression of what it's like to collect and play warhammer. Just like his first video got many people into this game, this one may stop a few people from trying. It's not a fair assessment of the hobby at all
Those are the reasons why a lot of people prefer games by smaller creators like Frostgrave, Stargrave, silver bayonet or prefer a "dead game" like Mordheim. It's much more fun to play in an event where everyone just needs one PDF to look up the rules on their phone. And it's organized by Fans so if you come back next year you can bring the same "army" and it's fine.
on the topic of alternate TT games, i always recommend checking out lancer, its a very combat centric ttrpg (that you could very easily just play as a wargame) with free rules great lore and a fantastic art style, the artist/co-creator also has a webcomic called Kill 6 Billion Demons that is very much worth checking out
Bro, you should come to Adepticon. The camaraderie there is amazing. I don't play 40k, I play an out of print Halo wargame that has a very small but dedicated community, and I still get that sense of brotherhood even with people that play other games. It is amazing.
One Page Rule allowed you tu play with 40K armies for less money and less rules. And as GW says: they are a miniatures company not a gaming company, buy theur miniatures not their rules^^
It’s kinda sad that the best place for a 40k fan right now isn’t 40k, it’s Horus heresy. No constant balance updates, a relatively stable rule set, a higher community focus on hobbling rather than the meta, etc. The sad reality is that the current state of 40k, especially 10th is a community for the gamer, not the hobbyist. Also, most of the points in these video just…don’t apply to the average person. 99.9999999% of warhammer players aren’t paying thousands to enroll in tournaments across the country, they’re gonna spend the 20 buck entry fee at their local store. Your average person isn’t gonna buy they’re own terrain, they’re gonna just use the terrain at their local store.
Tacticus was cool at first, coming from a guy who's never even seen a tabletop in real life, but it got real old when I started to realize just how damn difficult it is to progress.
@@BIGBOY2SAK the concept of a tabletop 40k you can play digitally is really cool, but I feel like the magic of it is lost without playing with your own cool minis
I might have to make a response video to this because I genuinely feel that whilst his feelings are valid, they're bad criticisms about the hobby as a whole. He only tackled one of the three triads of the hobby. The gaming side, whilst not really commenting about the painting/building and lore side. I listened to the whole thing and might make a response to address my concerns with a lot of what he said. Sounds like he went to all out with the hobby right at the end of 9th, felt jaded with the release of 10th and only cared about competitive play and tournaments. All whilst the guy was trying to juggle FOUR armies like!? Yeah no shit you ended up hating it man aha 😂
I think that's a really good point no ones mentioning, he only talked about gaming when the majority of people who collect warhammer do not actually play the game, let alone tourneys, let alone being super fixated on min maxing. He approached the whole thing like a league of legends player lol.
This video should be retitled "how a warhammer 40k whale learned to hate warhammer 40k". Cause this is not the average experience of someone in the hobby. While I love the Warhammer ip and most of the products, I completely understand your view Matt. But i caution those watching this video that this isnt the average experience. Alot of people dont have 200 bucks each month to throw away on a hobby let alone 500. Also as some have already pointed out, warhammer 40k and age of sigmar (fantasty warhammer) have already fixed some of these problems he expressed already. My advice to ANYONE who had an intrest in this as a new hobby is to take the tiniest dip into you can with the lowest commitment and slowly build to see if this is something you will enjoy more than hate. Which is pretty much my advice for any hobby. But matt it seems you have the "either love it completely or hate it" mentality in alot of things. Id rather see you find a middleground for the things you love since its alot healthier. You can love something while it is still flawed. Nothing in life is perfect. But i agree that gw is a shitty company but they are also a company. Their entire goal is to make money. Dont hate the lion cause they have to eat but understand it. For those who love this ip, we love the community and the people in it and the creative talent who create it that work at gw. P.s not going back through the whole video to nickpick everypoint but the one about buying a video game and you can still play it is a terrible take. I got alot of games in my steam library that cant be played anymore since the servers are down now.
I did very much enjoy Dice Check but he definitely was super disingenuous in this by representing his experience as a whale running a channel to the common persons
@@thekingofwolves1450 yes, I don't want it to get twisted that im disagreeing with all his points cause I'm not but it's def not the only advice on the hobby people should listen to. Do your research folks.
@@doctoradventure413 I do feel bad that he got burned this way, but I just think he himself does not understand what he experienced was not the hobby norm
@@thekingofwolves1450 I mean in the first 40K video he made he said that you should not buy everything all at once but it doesn’t seem like he realized he should slow down.
I think you over exaggerate a bit, for the average player they wont buy terrain, just go play in a store, books can be found online, and noone will ever make you replace old termagaunts with new ones lol
@@Guille2033 this is a lie. Old termagaunts are fine they just need new bases. I fucking hate that people who have never played a single tournament talk about something they know nothing of. Most people just can't stomach that 40k isn't for you. Even magikarp kept comparing 40k to League. Bro? This is not a videogame.
@@Guille2033 That's false. At most they'll ask you to put them on a properly sized base. Unless the base is the same size in which case you are good to go.
You and DC were one of the reasons I got into Warhammer back in 2020. I had always wondered why you dropped the hobby. I completely agree with every point you made in this video. This hobby is so exhausting on your mind, on your body, and on your wallet. I'm the assistant manager of and LGS, and it's even exhausting for me from a business standpoint. It's so unfortunate that such a cool concept is implemented so poorly by Games Workshop. I love this game, I love this hobby, but damn is it difficult to keep up with. If I didn't have a group of really good friends to share it with I would have given it up ages ago. As for powerpoint ideas, I would love to see a presentation about various aspects of life as a father; the highs, the lows, how it changes your life, etc. Thanks for another good upload!
I spent the better part of my childhood and most of my pocket money on building armies and painting them. Fast forward 24+years and my entire army of 2nd + 3rd edition Ultramarines is none playable npcs. With the realy strange exception of a single tactical squad. Even that will probably be gone soon. Now I have to spend a fortune to build an entire new army. Which is why I'm not returning anytime soon.
Hey man, understand how you feel, burnout is real. I think chasing the meta and all, or at least chasing many armies in such a short span of time, kind of made it hard for yourself, especially with 40k being how it is. I recently got back into MESBG (LOTR tabletop) and with using proxies and having a community it made a difference, as well as the fact that it is a easier game to collect and fun to play - just a suggestion if u ever wanted to collect and try something different. Aside from that hope that you and ur family have been doing well!
I agree with a lot of your openings statements. The model price, paints, time, all that is a crazy amount to get your foot in the door. The part I disagree with is any hobby will cost a lot and have continuous cost if it's crisis protocol, magic the gathering, Yu-Gi-Oh, even just board games in general.
The issue is with card games, unless there's a rotating format your old deck would just need like new legacy support or a somewhat new engine to make it work. Even then if there is a variety of formats all the better since some formats just stick with a singular cardpool period with no updates. As a person who has hobbied a lot of different games, 40k by far is the most expensive. Mainly because of every single part costing so much. I could build a tournament rogue tier somewhat competitive deck for tourneys from scratch for like 100-200$ . That would then last me a good bit of months with no changes needed unless a surprise ban list happened. That's chump change to 40k. The main issue is these games have a significant time period where you don't need to cough up dough, and again overall just cost less. They don't have constant erratas because they don't have the limitation a game like 40k has. They also have way better online support (master duel, the magic the gathering online game, even pokemon tcg has one), and way easier ways to budget besides just essentially going to knock offs. To be fair if you mostly play with friends you guys can just gentlemen to stick to an older generation. However the fact you have to limit yourself like that in the first place can be a bummer. Which is why for the most part yu-gi-oh has stayed my one physical real life hobby game, except a couple of board games, but those don't count since they don't get updated, they just have enough complexity to make things fresh every time.
Hobbying is part of the fun. If you run into this hobby head first with the thought of “I’m gonna get competitive as fast as possible” ya, you are gonna burn out. Much less the idea that you and your friends who were new to the hobby, almost immediately got a podcast to run about it. No wonder it only lasted like 6 episodes. Good luck with dad life!
I haven’t played 40k in over a year, so I’m fairly out of the hobby right now, but his points about how expensive 40k is was kind of disengenious…sure Warhammer is expensive, but not 500$ a month expensive unless you’re buying up everything as much as possible. It makes sense he did that for his channel, but I played Warhammer for 15 years and I maybe spent 50$ a month on a hobby I enjoyed. Also, units don’t just become obsolete. Sure, they might be “legended” if they’re super old l, but most units that are 10 or less years old are not going anywhere any time soon. Are they still meta? Probably not, but the meta swings so fast that old units become good again after a few months and the main lesson from all of this is to not meta chase and just build and paint at a slow pace while playing what you like. Moral of the story? Don’t meta chase, kids.
This exactly. I work and am a full time college student. I plan my time and money out for picking things up, never going out of my means. Through second hand, financing options, 3rd party sellers, etc. I've planned out and built up 3 armies in the last year and a half, while keeping things reasonable. I used to play MTG and keep up with the releases for that, and doing warhammer instead saved me money. It's not a "cheap" hobby, but it's nowhere near as expensive as everyone tries to make others believe it is. Hell, my entire Chaos Knights army cost me less than $500 total, and that was well spread out across months.
I disagree with the complaint about rules updates. 1. Even if all the rules were online free, a lot of players still prefer using books. 2. Regular updates are important for balance, they used to be infrequent and one army would dominate for most of an edition. 3. you can literally just print out rules changes and put them in the book, solving the problem. I use sticky notes when I can.
@@jonasschmutzer4910 Wahapedia is just a digital archive of ALL warhammer books codexes rulebooks etc. It has all the information you need to play the game it even has army points if you click on the skull icon in the bottom right corner. Compared to GW releases a new list building app with every edition and they are always terrible and full of glitches. In my opinion Wahapedia is better in EVERY way, except that it often takes a week or two to update with the brand new rules where as most of the GW apps are updated right away but then don't work and have 2 star ratings on the app store as a consequence.
GW really needs to just commit to digital rules. You already need to pay a subscription to use their army builder, but still need to buy a physical book to get access to the digital version, A physical book that likely has all the same lore as your previous books, and outdated rules before it even finished pre-orders. The tournament rules are only available in physical form and are still likely to be out of date within a few months of release.
Admittedly 10th edition has fixed a bunch of the rules and points issues. • Free core rules. • Free rules updates. • Free points. • Free army rules for armies yet to get a codex
Yeah, I was going to say, you do not need to buy the Core Book. It's available as a downloadable free PDF on the Warhammer Community website, as well as embedded in the app...
LUL before this GW simp gives people the wrong idea. The points aren't free after the army book comes out. Once that book comes out you're fucked until you buy the book. Also just look up how much it costs money wise just to get the army then realize how much time it will take to get it table ready for local play. GW is a trash company.
@@WolvericCatkinOnly complaint I got is the monthly sub for multiple army list. Also to have rules in app you need to buy a codex for a digital code. If there were options to purchase digital codes for the app. That would be 100% better. Hell 10 bucks to unlock all the rules of an army along with all future updates and more. Would be really good.
@@mrcaterpillow9926 yeah that aspect of the app absolutely shocked me as i recently got in to the hobby. I gotta spend how much to get all the rules on your official app? holy. No digital key purchase option is crazy. The sub not doing anything substantial past giving warhammer tv access is brutal. You can watch all that content in a weekend. It overall seems like a big rip off to be able to save more than one list.. something i can do for free with multiple other options.
Dude Im so glad you brought up Kenny. He has the best videos and I used to watch him but then I forgot his channel name when I took a break from painting and could never find it again.
@FlorentWyne_ I mean, super glue is entirely valid if plastic cement isn't usable. But even with plastic cement, it isn't impossible to assemble the models while kiddo is having a nap or is being cared for by others. If he has the time to paint as a parent, then he'd almost certainly have a spare few hours in the week to build some units.
I love the power point presentation direction of the channel. You should do a power point presentation on Syphilis like did in highschool. I let my partner do all the work, and all I had to do was present it to the class.
As an AoS player im familiar with how GW does a hype train for $, but most of the heavier frustrations mentioned here had Huge community push back(needing constant new models, game states that lead to knowing the outcome before the beginig, hype burn out) . I have always seen our 40k side of the club seemed burned out. Got a lot of insight on issues that i can know going forward to help new club members who are into 40k cause dont want them to have something fun become another job
@@TrexGrimStud Exactly, i can't imagine being a world eaters fan, or Votann player, and using your whole spending money of the month to realistically only play 1 game with it.
This is a solid summary of why I moved over to kill team instead. It sucks not having my big old tanks and everything but paying 60 bucks for a unit to play a concrete game feels exponentially better.
So I run a hobby shop and I have so many players that like Matt here have other responsibilities now or have just dropped 40k and if they're not having fun anymore that's a good move for them. But recently we've been running events for Spearheads in Age of Sigmar and I think that it's a perfect low investment game that still let's you have the smaller hobby investment of just painting a small band of dudes and matches only take an hour so the set up and tear down time is less feels bad than 40k. I think for anyone who is justifiably done with warhammer who maybe still wants to keep a toe in the space for the community and the hobbying and the beer and pretzels feel but don't gel with the rest of its worth looking into.
Honestly same here but iv seen a lot of players in my locals like Matt who blamed gw for their stress and quitting the game only to find out that they where burning them selves out by giving into fomo and buying the books that they dont even really need that much and also obsessing over their painting like everyone was going to notice that 1 tiny mistake they did on a shadow, my biggest tip to any new player is always to just start off with a small box or combat patrol and paint as you see fit as burn out is a scary monster.
Welcome to the dad wargaming cub. Good to have you here. Dad wargaming is still fun, ya just need to go slow. I'd suggest trying out battletech or infinity. Great games in different ways, but more importantly, they move slowly. Dads can keep up!
Yeah you don’t have time for it, for sure a combination of the things you said for sure. You have much more rewarding uses of your time now, and it’s good you are evaluating your interests like that. Family first every time. The online community isn’t big enough to support content creation and depends on patreon/subscription models to be made. Completely understandable and I’m glad to hear an update and follow your channel still.
man I got into 40k using the nids half of the leviathan box, but I hated them in 10th. Weak codex and I didnt really have enough of one detachment to really make it work. Votann on the other hand I fucking love. Oathband detachment, and their army rule is awesome and it has been a lot of fun to play. I honestly dont think I would still play if it wasnt for votann. I do agree as a new player the best part has been putting together and building my models. Learning how to magnetize the models was a lot of fun. The playing of the game, dice rolling was fun, seeing your strategy come to fruition was a great part of the game. Also managing an insane comeback after having a terrible turn 1 or 2 has been nuts. down 30 points going into turn 3 only to win it in the back half has been the highlight of my time playing so far. Votann does have snowball potential and can runaway with a game if you have some good rolls so thats a bit unfair of a comparison. Also theres the mobile app that you get the entire codex for free if you buy the codex. You dont really need the core rulebook if you arent playing in tourneys, but it is require if you are, but the 40k app is free if you have the codex.
One page rules (OPR) is a very neat simple war gaming rule set that encourages you to use proxies and even has a completely free, one hundred percent online, rule sheet. It may not have all the bells and whistles as WH40K but it is very competent in its simplification of wargaming rules and there are custom miniatures that you can purchase pre-printed or get the supported file for your 3D printer. It's far more affordable and customer centric. I highly recommend it.
I recently made the same decision and alot of the points you raised echo quite strongly with me. The sheer amount of time demanded of you, the space it takes up in your home, the chasing the newest thing or having to use the newest thing to be able to have a chance in a game. The game itself imo is just a terrible play experience each time. You set up your models, taking ages to do so and then you get shot off the board turn 1... or missed 1 ork that was in view of all your enemies guns and so on... the amount of time it takes to complete a game too, you just feel exhausted by the end of it. Each time I set up a game, I just feel anxious whether I will actually have a good time. When it came down to it, my friends and i realised the only time we have fun with warhammer was when we play it together but never with strangers because there isn't as much banter and the raw issues of the game are more evident. We came to the conclusion that we could have a better experience if we just played a different game. We decided to try the asoiaf miniatures game. It's been a much better hobby experience overall already. Would highly recommend it.
The heroin needle thing had me laughing. I still get the models just because I like painting them, I don't play it and I suspect that's what most people do. Going to give Mordheim a shot later.
It sounds a little to me like you perhaps got too deep into a particular part of the community that leaned more competitive than the average(in my experience) person does in this hobby. I don't think the typical player runs in to all of these problems, at least not in my area. I think the fact that these models do cost the amount that they do and because of how long they take to build/paint etc, this only further encourages the idea of "the rule of cool" that I see conveyed everywhere. Because we all know the meta shifts constantly. If you are a meta chaser and want to compete for prizes etc... yeah these issues you are talking about all make more sense, but you are gonna encounter them in virtually any gaming hobby that you want to take to any level of competition. It's not all that different from MTG players rebuilding decks for hundreds of dollars every few months. I don't have a solution to that, and I do think it's unfortunate how much these hobbies can cost if taken to a competitive level. But it's just a reality that they do. I just felt like the way in which you presented these problems was as if these are universal issues and I just can't agree that they are. Especially with the book issue, as many have already pointed out, there's so many of us that have hardly any of the physical books and get by more than okay. Maybe you need to get used to navigating web pages and pdfs a bit more to compete with your preference for a physical book. That's fine, but I don't think it's a huge deterrent as implied here. You can print out pdfs too. All of that being said, I do think its gross how much GW has gotten away with charging for virtually everything. Their app alone is absolutely disgusting to me and such a money grab.
yeah, if you want a wargame that covers all your complaints: battletech the core rules are static, the models are eternal and usable in 3/4 different games, if your opponent brings something weird it's their job to bring the rules, rules are adjustable depth, multiple ways to balance your games, dirt cheap, kitbash friendly... good stuff
I mean you could just buy one or two armies and have fun with your friends. You dont have to play metalists everytime. GW has never been known for balance.
Hey Matt, been a while, congrats on the kid. Also, about the Hobby rule bloat, I honestly just take the models and play with a different homebrew rule set. I used Bolt Action as a base. Edit: The best part about this is not having a crappy company like GW swapping out rules to make you buy new models and you can balance the game with a focus on however you want (we balanced for lore, its night mare and really fun to have rules where your Imp Guard blob literally melt to 5 space marines and a single custodian never dies).
I have not played 40k before, so I apologize of my ignorance ahead of time, but what prevents a player from just… not updating to the latest book? Cant you just play an older version of the game to prevent spending tons of money every month? I get that you need a new book if a new unit gets released, but at that point you can just wait on buying that unit, until you finally choose to update to the latest release.
It's not a single player game. If you want to not update you have to find an opponent who didn't update either. Convincing someone to not update is the hard part. It can be done initially but when GW comes out with something new and shiney the urge to update is there. Also if your opponents army was underpowered in the old rules and overpowered in the new rules they will update. Or every time they lose it will be because you have forced them to hamstring themselves to play old rules with you. I'm not speaking from experience or anything /s
There is absolutely no need to spend a ton of money every month at all, and for the current edition of the game, he has misrepresented it greatly. In particular, the rules are free and online. They even have them compiled in an app for easy access. All the supplements and updates are also free and released online. There is almost zero cost for rules. The only exception being the codex, and that is only if you can't wait a day or two for someone to put them online. And if you want to play with old rules, you can find all of it online for free. There is no reason to just spend money on stuff, especially if you've got your army completed and playable.
I do love Warhammer as a setting, models, painting, and kitbashing are the most fun. Granted I live in a very rural area so my expectation of ever getting to play an actual game is 0.2%. As far as what you say I agree that trying to get into the game there is an expectation to keep in the loop that changes every 4-5 months. So I only ever buy things I think would be fun to make. Also the GW pricing is absurd in this economy. That all being said Wargames bolt action is coming out with their Version 3 after over a decade. So I think I will give that a try.
I feel like a lot of the points about "hard to find rules" have been fixed almost completely in 10th, an edition that also seems somewhat more balanced (after the eldar index nerf obviously)? As far as I know even the top armies aren't as oppressive as 9th was (but it still is early to tell). On the cost of books and models that can get deleted off the game or become obsolete I completely agree with you, it is insane, for example I play Dark Angels, and in 10th a lot of our specific units got put into legends, granted I don't play tournaments, so I can still use those legends units, but the fact that they are in legends, it means that they probably wont exist next edition. On the topic of "keeping up" with 40K and the "amount" of books and new models to buy I think isn't a problem for most people? Outside of the insane prices I mean, but on an overall "keeping up" with the game. Those that play casually, probably have just one army, that requires 1, maybe 2 books at most, and will get max 2 new models in the edition (unless its Space Marines) if they are lucky. Lastly, time investment is also really relative, it is a time consuming hobby and you decide how much time you want to spend on it, the same way I spend lots of hours on the newest Videogame, I can spend them on the hobby, but I also thing that this part of it is way less problematic if you have friends to paint and just hang out hobbying with. But! Happy to see you again and well, you are one of the people that got me and by proxy some of my friends into 40K, and I will always be thankful of that.
It also sounds like bad luck, he's complaining about nids getting new models when the Termagaunts are from 2001, and all the nids players I knew were excited about them. Sounds like he just got too deep into the hobby too fast and got burned out, and didn't do enough research to make it last long enough
You were one of the reasons I got into 40k. I'm still playing it and loving but definitely agree with many of the points. Like every time a new player joins the hobby they need to hear some PSAs: 1: never buy forgeworld 2. stick to 1-2 armies 3: use wahapedia/online resources The game's super fun and a lot more balanced right now than it's been in a long time. It's honestly not a bad time to get back in.
That part about the constant updates and balance changes hit hard. I really got back into 40k when 10th edition hit, getting really into the rules, but over time the motivation to play or find the time to shedule a game faded. Recently there was this huge balance change update, where I feel like I have to relearn the whole thing again and it honestly has become a big hurdle in me playing. I hate how you can't take a break of a couple of months.
the game doesnt update that much, major changes are 6 monthd (and there isnt usually that many) and points changes are 3 months. you are being hyperbolic.
I only play older editions. Playing competitively is the only reason to play the newest editions. The new edition isn't better, it's just different. Especially with the 8th,9th,10th reboot, they didn't balance anything, they only rehauled the whole game. So I only play 1st, 5th, 7th editions (5th as kind of a joke and 1st as a nostalgia trip) because the game was already at a point by 7th that everything good was already in the game and you can homebrew anything that was released after.
Excellent video, and I'd like to hear more of your insights. 1) Was there a final straw moment for you that broke you? 2) Have you played any of the specialty games? 3) Did you get into the lore/read any of the books?
Sounds like this was all self inflicted with the tourney stuff and your obsessive need to min-max everything about the game. Always makes me laugh when the 40k fans who jump right in and start spendijg upwards of 20k (havent forgotten about the vid you made just to flex on us poor 40k players showing what you could buy and we couldnt) just to rhen turn around after they have lemon squeezed every drop on enjoyment from non stop playing, and say "this game sucks" and then go on to list all the reasons they dislike it. Its like the queen complaining to the subjects that white suger is awful and your so glad you dont have to eat it. All the while the normies are starving beneath then wanting even a slice of what they have experienced. Really sad to see you like this man. Congrats on being a dad. If i could leave you with something becauee as a former league of legends min maxer myself, these kinds of issues will never stop unlesss you yourself decide to make a change.
You shared a lot of fair criticismas about competitive 40k and all the agony that comes with chasing the meta alongside the grind of playing at the highest level. I am sorry to hear about all the bad things you experienced with 40k. I hope that you still get to hold onto the good memories, and that you get to paint or play a casual game on your own time/terms. If you are still looking for other tabletop games to enjoy, that maybe have fewer issues, I recommend checking out Conquest: The Last Arguement Of Kings (from Para Bellum) or A Song Of Ice & Fire (from CMON). The latter is way less expensive and time intensive, especially since all the miniatures come preassembled and ready for games. Good luck with your next adventures in life!
Damn it, cant call him a virgin anymore.
Pretty sure it's his GFs kid because that kid is whiiiiite.
@@oxymoronmanYou should read up on how skintone inherits
Oh, and usually a pregnancy involves two people ;)
@@gewurzgurke4964 Nah, immaculate conception. That kid is the seventh coming.
I’m almost sure it’s his gf’s kid with her old guy
Brah has more sex than us lol good job you
This just in: going from total newbie to full-on tourney going meta-slave & running a channel based on battlereports almost exclusively, turning the hobby into a full on job within a year results in not enjoying said hobby anymore, more after this.
YOU HAVE A KID??
WHAT
Yeah his gf got Cece and he is her dad now ❤
@@Kananatethen it ain't his kid till at least marriage lmao
@@gir240
Depends on the state lmao
HE HAS A KID????
I hate driving. Going 130mph everywhere is so stressful and dangerous
Underrated analogy.
I sort of understand the analogy... the problem is that almost everybody seems to be driving 130mph. Otherwise, most of the problems he talked about wouldn't actually *be* problems because the community would have reigned in GW.
@@zthroescha you're saying James tacitly encourages speeding? I agree. But we don't have to be swayed.
Sounds like most of the things you hated were tied to tournament play in some way. If you were just playing with 2 armies, friends, and at a local game store. No one cares about proxies, 3d prints, old models, imperfect bases etc.
There are still rule books. IMO you can play it on the cheap to an extent. But that's still a lot of time and effort.
I just download the PDF
Yea I haven't had any issues getting into AoS at my local store. Super easy to dive in. Everyone has an extra rulebook, and if they don't, the store owner does. I haven't paid for anything I wasn't already ok paying for as a vanity item.
based
@@xyz41100I don’t have a rulebook. The only dumb book for me is my army codex
Unfortunately, I think you really did yourself a disservice playing 40k as a content creator. Playing casually with friends or at a local game store basically eliminates all of these problems. I completely agree that GW sucks in many different ways and they don't have their player base's best interest in mind, but you don't have to play at this level of commitment. Just slow down, enjoy the modeling/painting, enjoy the lore & themes, enjoy the beer & pretzels, save they hypercompetitive meta chasing for something else that is supported in the way you need to be able to still enjoy that.
Just wanted to throw out there too that this video made me very sad since his documentary was what pushed me to get into this hobby that I love so much. Nothing that he said was completely invalid, but there are ways around it.
based
As someone who plays casually, I bought the Genestealer Cult ninth edition codex, tried to play a game, couldn't, and then went into hobbying for a bit, and played one game with the new codex before it was obsolete. I spent $40 on a paperweight.
@@GeneralJerrard101 why couldnt you play..?
This is like when a girlfriend defends her abusive boyfriend. No game should have these many problems to play competitively. Maybe, just maybe, he doesn't find casual playing fun and wants to play competitively. It's simple, he wants to play the game at a competitive level and can't.
yuuuuuuup! I encourage you to keep painting if you like it though! It takes exactly as much time as you feel like devoting to it every week, and your hobby progress can't get wiped by GW every 6 months. Also, acrylic paints are pretty safe as long as your kid isn't sucking them down or living inside of your airbrush booth :-)
Ayo my boy Brent, goobers for life!!!
Plus, if the kid gets his hands on a magenta paint bottle, you're gonna get magenta poop, which is a nice change of turn on the diaper-changing cycle.
There's literally no point.
@@doublestarships646 I find that creative hobbies like miniature painting add a TON of joy to my life. 🙂
@@GoobertownHobbies Sounds like a waste of valuable time.
what kind of psychopath buys the rule books for the rules?
cant catch me dead with a core rule book from GW
psychopaths that enjoy tournament play.
@@cadeatx6698 one of my mates or myself buys one for our group to use, whether it be a gt pack or core rules
Get it for the art
My local library stocks the rulebooks. Total blessing
1. GW
2. GW pricing
3. GW rules
4. GW
Gratz on the kid! Super cute 😊
True warhammer fans just use dawn of war soulstorm units editor (im poor)
You know you are a fan when you start to hate GW
you forgot GW IP politics
Lack of mtg and watcraft like games.😊
I don't wanna dismiss your legitimate criticisms of GW as a company, for sure they're awful. But multiple 2000 point armies, all meta chasing, buying all the books, 500 dollars a month? Really seems an average case of going too far off the deep end and burning yourself out.
I built around 3k of votann and about 2k worth of nids in about a month and was super burnt out. I love votann though and they have been fun to play.
@@poeskey It's super easier to get excited, buy a bunch of stuff, and get yourself burnt out in this hobby. Especially if you're buying directly from GW lol
The guy has 1.17mil subs. Using average numbers from UA-cam, that’s 10s of thousands a month. I mean, $500 is nothing.
@@Mdhneo007 Considering money was one of his major complaints, probably not.
@@LetsQuackAboutIt In the end it's relative. Even if he's making what industry estimates say, all that could be committed elsewhere and $500 a month burdensome.
Sounds like you are trying to talking yourself out of starting again
Guy who went into the game without any knowledge and instantly spent 2000$ on it burned out and is now blaming the game? Ok bruh
I got into 40k because of you I ran events and made friends and I don't regret it at all.
That's super cool dude! And same but I don't run any events personally.
Sounds like bro got too into it, spent too much money and got burned out.
Anyone I've seen exiting 40k angrily has almost always been due to meta chasing. If you don't chase the top builds and units all of the time, it isn't that expensive of a game. Certainly not 500$ a month.
@@mekrot1 I think if you're a content creator you're required to be a meta chaser to excite your audience.
@@sweetboygreeny3855 I don't think that's true at all. You don't have to make optimized lists to excite audiences. Plenty of Battle Report channels play suboptimal lists.
@@sweetboygreeny3855Bricky’s first LVO video is my go to for the antithesis of this mindset. Pre-codex Night Lords for the funnies, not to win. His second video hits this even harder even with a better army, he easily could’ve gone Votann and wipe the floor, but he decided to go about it with his favorite army instead and pick the suboptimal archetype… and he went 4-2!
I'm 15 mins into the video and I've just been screaming "Use the damn official app for the updates and rules!!!???" Like dude is complaining about needing to buy white dwarf for updates when the Warhammer just updates for free as long as you own the initial first codex for whatever army you play ... BRUH
Dude's saying a lot of things are mandatory to enjoy the hobby.
Gaming mats, extra gaming mats, plane tickets, event tickets, hotel fees. . . . Oof.
Seems like man woulda enjoyed the hobby if he treated it as a hobby.
He's more passionate than most for sure, he would be their target audience if he wasn't aware and more complacent with all their BS.
If he does tournaments, understandable, he's competitive, it's a bit more than a hobby at that point.
Bro learned that doing 40k as a business doesn't work.
@MilkTankz 10 channels out of many thousands that have tried and failed it you mean?
It's mostly painting channels. The actual gameplay channels are mid and just not as fun as playing
@timbloxrox1 and the few Decent (or pandering) Liee Channels
@ChrisKCook yee I've only ever watch like play on tabletop bc they ran games with the warlord titans and midwinter minis and other adjacent painting channels
As many have echoed, this sounds like you did exactly what everyone says not to do. You meta-chased; you over-invested; you min-maxxed; you didn't utilize your community resources.
With particular regards to the updated models, if I recall correctly, GW has said you just have to put old models on updated bases. Moreover, they've even said just use the bases the models came with.
I think your video is very ad hominem in the fact that you continually cite that you have to do X, Y and Z. You also say that enjoyment in the game is based in "drinking the kool-aid."
No one makes you do anything, and enjoyment can stem from multiple aspects of the game as you correctly pointed out.
This is a hobby, and the fact that you're criticizing that a hobby takes time is kind of petty imho.
This comes off whiny and petulant.
If this is the standard of your future content, you might as well just focus on the family.
It’s unfortunate to hear 40K left a really bad taste in his mouth but honestly 90% of the things he hated were essentially self inflicted.
My advice to anyone in the hobby and especially just joining it is to NOT CHASE THE META, play/buy to win and collect a bunch of armies right from the start. Just slowly expand your army with the units you enjoy and play for fun with friends! At the end of the day for me at least it’s about the building/painting/kit bashing and occasionally rolling some dice with peoples whose company I enjoy. Not buying everything that is “strong” at the moment and entering a bunch of sweaty tournaments where my enjoyment is inherently tied to winning.
>500 dollars a month
At that point, its on you, dawg. Ive never heard of anyone ever spending that much routinely.
I've done it. It's an addiction akin to gambling and hordeing. I had to purge a couple years ago. I kept my Orks, but don't even look at them anymore.
@@kingnothing5706 yeah that's on you.
Yeah, my "lowest point" at which I had to take a break to actually focus on work and college was buying two to three big boxsets a year xD
So that's like, 50 bucks a month, I'm pretty sure
Now I'm slowly going back to painting minis and just returned from a campaign played with some pals
Hobbies can be expensive. Im into cars and you said that shit to me id laugh at you. You cant say "its on them" for enjoying something that requires you to spend a bit more then usuall thats literally what its like having a hobby. Like damn
Do you not have any hobbies?
Most of these problems are fixed if you play the game as a normal person with a casual mindset and use online resources for books tho. Nobody is pointing you a gun and making you buy new models that are meta or just newer sculpts of some you already have. And it's absolutely not a good competitive game, even if GW wants to make you believe so.
My man's went into WH40K trying to be competitive gamer, when all he wanted to be was a competitive mini painter 😂
or a professional model kit assembler
Every mini painting Channel has to address 40k at some point periodically , just because algoriths. BUT...there are a loooot of other games to paint minis for, to say nothing of just painting minis for their own sake, not associated with anything.
I'm gonna be real, if you aren't a content creator, and if you aren't playing in tournaments almost all of these complaints are null and void. Get together with your friends, use the core rulebook, ignore the updates unless your friends or group want to specifically play one of the updates. I don't play warhammer 40k personally, but this entire video more or less sounds like Matt venting about the whole content creation side of it. Normal people aren't going out of their way to do every tournament or make videos where you feel pressured to always be up to date to show the new shiny things. No hate, but don't take this video as if it's geared towards casual players.
Sadly this is not true. It's true for every other hobby, but not Warhammer.
Warhammer is expensive, and you HAVE to be up to date.
Being behind one update to your army can literally be the difference of if you're able to use half the models you have.
And being up to date is also important because of balance, because it is very unfun for the person you're playing with if you just wipe them out in two turns. This is very common for warhammer balance.
So you spent thousands of dollars to get these models and make them battle ready, and some random dude or your best friend just obliterates them into dust before they even get a chance to do anything. It's very frustrating.
Usually it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but you have to invest so much money and TIME in the models, because you have to buy them, assemble them, paint them, give them load outs etc. You play Barbie with hundreds of plastic dudes and you get very attached to them, so when they are unjustly destroyed it feels personal.
So EVERYONE stays up to date. And staying up to date is both time and money consuming.
Also, buying terrain is even more expensive, and the average player does NOT have terrain.
So most players play at a Local Games Workshop Store, or a normal LGS.
A LGWS is not going to allow you to play on their tables with your friends if you have illegal models.
An LGS might, depends how insane the owner is.
So again, you either buy terrain, which is expensive, or you go full on in on the hobby, which is where most people stand
@@Swift_LNwhat? Who buys GW terrain? Just buy one of those cheap "train town terrain" kits at a hobby store and you have house, bridges, trees, sometimes even cars or farm houses. Point is cheap terrain. It's even pre-painted!
This video isn't geared towards casual players, or anyone else for that matter. It is why he, MagiKarpUsedFly, quit. However, as stated by some others, in order to do official play, you need official models and so forth. Which he seemed to enjoy.
@@Dymetreus many official tournaments also don't care as long as they were sold like that. Only GW run tournaments (which is mostly warhammer world) require the work he is describing. I had my termigaunts on their old bases and the TO said it was fine because that's how I bought them
il be honest, on the book front
iv been playing for like 2 and a half years now with 2 different armies, 9th and 10th edition, and i never once baught a book
the most recent codex i have is the 3rd edition CSM codex from like 20+years ago and idk why i have that
with how easy to use things like battlescribe, tabletop battles, and wahapedia are, and how frequently they are updated
unless you REALLY want to use all the new rules the week they come out, your fine, just wait for them to be updated
you only "need" the books if your going to an official tournament or something (and i bet most still allow it even without) if your just playing buddys or small stores, you never need to buy a book
also on the whole "you buy a unit and in 3 months its bad"
thats the price of "meta chasing" everyone i know (and most i dont) have always said you buy what looks cool regardless if its good or not, anything thats good now will eventually be bad, everything thats bad now will at some point be good, just get the thing you like the look of, not whats going to do well on the table
Also the wh40k app has updates on it so when you buy the codex you get a code for the app
Exactly, buy what you want. Every unit will have its ups and downs.
I needed someone to say this. I was having a tough time with Warhammer, I only joined because of my friends, I thought Ad-Mech would be fun, and I realized halfway through painting my army that the copter that I had was useless. It was honestly my most favorite part of my army and I put so much work into it. And it would get blown up because by Games Workshop standards, it shows up a turn later to be a sitting duck. At this point I spent 400 dollars on something I realized I hated because I apparently have less control of what I could do according to the rules.
After that I couldn’t even get into playing, even one time actually bought it but someone was like “But bro, like no offense, but you’re gonna lose”.
Honestly, my only favorite thing about warhammer by this point is the lore and Darktide
I feel you, almost everyone I know been there- done that in regards to building and painting just to find out said stuff is dead weight. Its at the point that even if the rules improved I have 0 interest playing any GW product. This company will never bother making a good game.
"everything i hated about warhammer were either problems i created myself, or problems i threw money at instead of being sensible" almost every complaint he had has been sloved by 10th
Haha right, he just immediately shit on 10th when he could easily go back to enjoying the game without having to spend anymore money
Sad tho that dice check died, I remember sending some night lords (just a few models) that way when Bricky said he is gonna start them and after that the fan mail videos stopped, lol
I know the crew was under no obligation to show what fans send, but I would also lie if I said that didnt hurt a whole bit.
Maybe it's because I joined in late 9th but from what I understand, your point is:
"I like playing, building, painting, and the community. I don't like being competitive and trying to please others."
I don't know how most of that is warhammer's fault. But your choice is yours. I just don't entirely get it. The price thing is fair tho
As far as pricing goes, GW puts out models with the highest detail of anything I've seen. they're just some of the highest quality stuff out there.
A lot of this is valid, but 500$ a month to stay current? No way man, I play tournaments all the time, and I spend nowhere near that. Plus, you are talking about super sweat min-maxxing, and you might be scaring off people who want to have fun. Sure, my cool dreadnought isn't S-tier, but it is alright and it is fun to play with. There's a million ways to have fun outside of turbo sweating
Hell, imagine trying to paint $500 dollars of models in a month, while having a job and other responsibilities. It sounds like he made it his entire life and absolutely burned himself out on it till he hated it.
It shouldn't cost $500 to stay current, that's the point.
I’m pretty sure he was talking about keeping everything up to date on the Chanel too.
@@doublestarships646 it doesn't. Unless you are meta-chasing with multiple armies, or you're redesigning your army from the ground up, it will never cost you $500 a month.
@@MrHoneuma The guy literally made a video talking about how much it cost him every month just for the show and being competitive.
I'm sorry man, but I think you just ruined it for yourself. Meta-chasing in any TTG turns out like this. Not just Warhammer
Edit: accidentally called it a TTRPG oops 😂
Sorry, but I don't agree with you.
There are a lot of other wargames with a much more stable and subtle meta that won't force the player to refresh his own army every 6 months in order to not get tabled on turn 1.
GW games have always been the worst offenders in this context, and I don't find it accurate or fair to bundle all other wargames with them.
40k isn’t a TTRPG though….its a miniature wargame.
Yup
Warhammer ain't an RPG
@@ivanbigazzi Turn 1 tabling is has not been a thing for years now in 40k. Unless someone is not using proper terrain but that is not the problem with game itself.
This mans entire existence is aimed at giving his community whiplash with each video
"oh btw I quit League"
"oh btw I am a really good movie maker"
"oh btw I am no longer chubby but fit and slender"
"oh btw I have A FUCKING GROWN ASS KID"
All the best to you and your family Matt, but goddamn did these news make me feel old.
Wanna sell my blood angels back??
Oof
@@dukedevlan5457oof?
Oof
Oh you sold your army to him? Was it a good deal at the time haha
Rip
Holy shit what kind of twist is that
I used to watch you back in high school when you were a league of legends youtuber, now i stopped playing league a long time and havent watched you in years, and now ive been playing Warhammer 40000 for 2 years, and you were recommanded randomly with this video
it's like making a circle again
bro you can literally just use wahapedia and have every single rule and datasheets in 40k for free, updated consistently and super well organized. Been playing 40k for 7 years and never spent a single dime on books. Also don't complain about the changing meta if you're playing like a meta chaser. Your unit becomes less optimal? keep playing with it. Who cares if it's less optimal? Here's how playing a 40k game is for 99% of the playerbase : make list with units you have at home, plan game with friends, show up, open wahapedia, start clock, play and have fun. A 2k vs 2k game should last 3h30 (5 hours for a regular match is absolute insanity and you must have been playing in slow mo, there's no wayyyy). Also, there's zero pressure to buy anything, this sounds like an impulse spending issue and lack of self control. You don't necessarily have to go to events and tournaments every single week like how would you not get burned out doing that? You're not a pro player, you're not forced to attend these. You say terrain and game mats are expensive but there is a million ways to build those for free or you can play at local game stores/ clubs and use their tables as well. You say there is no army diversity because you only played against the same people over and over again and attended try hard tournaments. But if you played casually, you would realize it's pretty much impossible to encounter two people playing the same list. No matter how bad your army is, if you play well and luck is on your side, you always have a chance at winning. If you always lose no matter what, it just means you're bad at the game or the people you're going against are better at it than you. The time you allocate to your hobby is your own choice, you don't need to do everything all at once or grind at all and you don't need to drop out from your other hobbies either, sounds again like a lack of self control and discipline issue. Love your channel and used to be a dicecheck viewer so I got no hate for you but it's a bit sad that you resent this hobby so much simply because you chose to do it in the most toxic/bad way possible. I understand you wanted to make it your job to play 40k but you gotta realize that any passion will feel like trash once it becomes your extended workplace
Can I interest you in a 9th Edition Imperial Guard Codex? That girl was the bell of the ball for a month or two...
Genuinely absolutely brutal GW killed 9th immediately after releasing the codex. I know it will never happen but I would kill for GW to take an extra year or two in 10th and drop all the codices for 11th in the first year or so.
@ryanglover3867 but then there's no power creep and constant revenue of money for them 😢
They would starve with their measly 30% profit margins when most companies don't even reach 5%
it seems like, this dude over indulges in something until he hates it then blames whatever it is instead of accepting that he just has an addictive personality until he hates it.... just like he did with league...
I hate GW as much as the next guy but I agree, he also way over-exaggerates how bad things are. You don't need to buy any books, the core rules are free and everything else is on wahapedia and you 100% don't need to buy the new version of the model to play it, that's just a crazy thing to say.
Idk I've been a casual player since 4th edition and I agree with everything he said. Love the models and the IDEA of the game but the rules are lacking and GW seems to care about selling product 50x more than making a fun, well supported game.
to play tournies, some of the most fun he clearly has with the game, he's right on everything he said
That powercreep point is just 100% right, we are still seeing it with the recent Orkz codex making them the top thing in 10th. It's still going around man.
You can say that there are things about how he plays the game that made these problems overexpressed (being a tourney player and a content creator)
But either way I say do a second-take before jumping in the way of a bullet heading for a big company's head, if it's about predatory habits which most of the video is, there's a huge chance it's correct on some level.
@@De_La_Evo Orks are now at a 44% win rate. Balance pass destroyed them with just a small Points increase and changing a 4 to a 5.
@@alexfrantz8389 the fact they HAD to get obliterated proves the power creep and GW’s continued “making shit trash all the time” argument.
I respect you trying to break away from toxicity, but this is a whole new breed for you.
You were obsessive to a massive dentrimental level, and you are to blame. I wish and hope you acknowledge that.
At no point, ever, did you have to buy something. You were 25+ years old at the time, but you did not act like it. You made poor decisions, and frankly a lot of them.
GW is not a good company, but your metaphor with needles is not the best. Heroine is bad. 100%. But going through models is not innately bad. It's something you have to take your time with. It can be incredibly theraputic but you treated as if a video game. Your actions of spending insane amounts of money, going by huge bulkz, and having an unhealthy mentality executing everything is what did you in. Not GW, not models, just you as a person.
Im not trying to belittle you, but when you came back, I had legit hope you were doing better.
Im not saying go back into the game, and honesty, dont even go back into the hobby. It is not for you, but I hope you do get better. I know the past year has been really rough for you and thank you for sticking to it, but you got some more growing up to do man. Keep going!
Thank you for the videos and podcasts with dice check.
Wholeheartedly agree with this. His points on the Cost of Enjoyment section were all self-inflicted. I got no sense of him taking responsibility for his financial actions. I've been in this hobby for 20+ years and its flawed as heck, but back when I started it it was exactly that, a hobby. You don't have terrain? Make some, your house is full of materials and junk that with a lick of paint and glue could look epic. Constantly feeling like you're buying paints and brushes? You can maintain your materials better, clean your brushes, transfer your paints to an airtight container and keep them in a cool place. I think some better decision making and introspection here could have helped him.
500 a month is insane. Ive been playing for 13 years and at top tiers of competitive for 5 and even when i was meta chasing scum costs never got that high. Insane take tbh. And specially now in 10th you might need your codex code and every so often the mission deck. Every other update is digital and free now.
Oh man. I’ve been waiting for this day. It’s like when my parents told me they were getting divorced, but I had sat for 3 years waiting for the announcement.
this win best commit in my mind. I hear it a lot. i prefer older editions and playing with friends. have not played 10th. but dam spot on.
I spent like a few hundred for 2k points of Greyknights at 2014 and played with them since.
Unlike any other army, they hadn't really changed in such away that I needed to buy more models.
Yeah... A lot of these issues you have are more so a you problem. All the rules can be found online for free. You don't have to keep chasing the meta. Old models can still be used. Want to try a model out? Print out a picture of it and glue it to cardboard. You don't have to spend so much money. Damn.
This guy's content is just him burning out on new hobbies.
He keeps using the term, “you have to buy…” and I don’t think that’s true
This reminds me of Magic players who just jump from best deck to best deck.
Maybe try listening to what he's saying. If X gets updated, then it makes the old X obsolete, so you have to get the new one to stay current with the rules.
@@Logank192 Just say you don't play the game currently, because that is not at all true. Rules updates are free and put out for everyone.
@@MrHoneuma, first, Matt specified that he was referring to when he mostly played, which was 8th and 9th edition. Secondly, did they walk back charging for updates in the app? Because last year they said that only the core rules and combat patrol data sheets would be free. That's only one of his complaints, model updates making old models unusable is still relevant.
@Logank192 You don't need any of it. Need is a rather strong word, majority of 40k fans are at their houses or local game stores playing the way they want.
When the kid is a bit older and you’ve got more time, you should try playing Kill Team. Only 5-15 models to play, lots of single box teams, play in 2 hours or less. Less terrain needed too. It’s the most dad-friendly way to play.
It's interesting that a lot of the points that you made in the Journey to Warhammer-videos with enjoyment and use of models, as well as the obsoletion and annoyance at the books and that, remain as valid now as they were those 4 years ago.
it was the same 20 years ago too.
''new'' gamesworkshop
old tricks.
Except they're not, and you'd know that if you were actually playing the current edition. Core rules are free and in an app. Only books to worry about are a codex. All supplements and updates are free and released as pdfs. You're whining about a problem that doesn't exist anymore.
@@MrHoneuma wat? yeah, the problem is still real! You can say it is less, but you still need a lot of things to keep up with the game, and the best way is not with GW, WHPD keeps the game alive for a lot of people
@@leonardogoncalves5372 the only real issue is codexes becoming obsolete, which isn't really an issue at all. print off errata and attach it to the codex. There is no way to prevent codexes from becoming less accurate. Most of the rest of his points were the result of meta chasing.
Comparing table top 40k to a video game might be one of the biggest mental traps I keep seeing in this hobby. The hours painting and assembling are supposed to be enjoyment! Not a barrier to entry to play a game. You can tell this guy was a league player.
but it's still *stuff* that you have to do in order to enjoy it. I'd love to get into 40k on the tabletop but I never will because I despise painting anything that isn't a wall. I have poor fine motor control (thank you, concussions and fat fingers) and little patience for finicky details when there isn't an "undo" button. and I'll never be able to afford to pay someone to do a decent job of making an army for me because I'm a normal-ass guy struggling to pay bills like everybody else. it's way too big a barrier for someone like me and that really sucks.
the problem is that, some models are reslly nice to paint, taking tyranids for exemple, painting your flying hive tyrant can be really cool, but when you're doing your 27th tarmagant it reslly does feel like a chore,
and sure you can specifically only buy models that you find cool and want to play, but when they nerf them right after, it feels like you wasted money and time on something you cant even play (especially things like forgeworld models or models that dont grt rules anymore)
for example, i took a lot of time painting a lion el johnson for darl angels, and even if the wrmy wasn't the best way to play space marines, i still liked them, then when they announced the new codex and stopped supporting a lot of older dark angel models as well as nerfing really badly lion, it kinda just demoralizes you
There was a lot of interesting points in the video, but it felt like it became a bit of a vent post during the second half. A lot of games aren't perfect, and we all need to find out how much effort we want to put into something we enjoy. Overall a lot of interesting things to think about and a few points I agree with, 9th edition had a lot of problems that I feel 10th edition has fixed.
I am up to 22:40, but I feel like you are the one causing your own problems. Yes, the books are annoying and, frankly, there needs to be a better way. But who needs multiple mats, ten sets of terrain, and every new model that comes out? You are going so hard for the tournament side of the game. You do know that there never used to be a competitive version; it was just open play.
I play a game once a month if I'm lucky, and it takes me longer to paint a unit. However, this is why I think you dislike the game currently. You made your hobby your job, and you felt pressured to stay current with every release and rule, so you burnt yourself out. Go play a game without cameras or a time limit. Play it like that video game-just for the fun of it. You don't need to update your models. People still go to tournaments with the original Space Marines; they just update the bases. Try not to compare yourself to others and play for yourself. Better still, stop with the tournaments and just play at your local store. Do the things you like: throw dice and drink beer.
Im sorry what?
99% of people in Warhammer as a hobby isnt doing any of that. Who the fuck meta chases to that point? 500$ a month? JFC.
Andno its not a "but i had to because i had a channel or had to make content" problem, i really doubt most people who do content spends that much. Im pretty sure it was a you problem
I have been a wargamer for over 20 years. Been playing 40k since third edition and have invested way too much time in money in this hobby. I thought I was a lifetime player cause there was no way I could walk away from something that has been a huge part of my life for over two decades. GW over the past two years finally managed to make me quit 40k. Didn't think it was possible but it is like they are actively trying to drive players away with FOMO marketing, terrible rulesets, bad balancing, and locking overpriced models inside even more overpriced box sets. I now play OnePageRules, Crisis Core, Legion, basically anything not Games Workshop.
Fellow 3rd edition guy here. I have the exact same feelings.
Good to know you too found a benefit in it. 🙂
I was in that GW bubble so long, i'd never even considered trying something else.
But holy heck are there many waaaay better systems out there.
Haven't bought anything GW in the last 5 years or more.
I started in 7th, and mostly it was the game after 8th, but the marketing sure didn't help. I've fallen in love with Malifaux since then, been having a blast. Rules are literally free, data cards for each unit come with the models, less than $200 gets you not just a list, but most possible builds for that whole faction, cards for objectives and errata updates come out once a year-ish, they're all free in app but if you want physical cards it's $15 for every updated card.
Matt, if you have a 3D printer and just really like painting I would recommend learning how to just make your own figurines. You can create or use models people have made, print them colorless, and then do the painting yourself. No worrying about getting the new thing twice a year, you can make the figure scale whatever size you like, and if you decide you don't want it anymore you can probably just sell it to a friend. It's a fun hobby.
I agree with most of your points, and while i agree with the cost of rules and books being stupidly high, i think your issues with the cost are kinda unique haha. Most people who are playing arent running a channel, or maintaining multiple 2k+ armies.
Its like he maid a video why he quit 40k and not why you should quit 40k
except now those rules are free and the only book you need to worry about for your army is a codex, and only if you want the rules day 1, because they'll be online for free within a few days. All supplements and updates are free pdfs as well.
@@FiveStringChe's giving a false impression of what it's like to collect and play warhammer. Just like his first video got many people into this game, this one may stop a few people from trying. It's not a fair assessment of the hobby at all
TL:DR
Why meta chasing is bad and burns you out.
Those are the reasons why a lot of people prefer games by smaller creators like Frostgrave, Stargrave, silver bayonet or prefer a "dead game" like Mordheim.
It's much more fun to play in an event where everyone just needs one PDF to look up the rules on their phone. And it's organized by Fans so if you come back next year you can bring the same "army" and it's fine.
Even amongst GW games people play the so called Specialist Games and like them more than 40k.
on the topic of alternate TT games, i always recommend checking out lancer, its a very combat centric ttrpg (that you could very easily just play as a wargame) with free rules great lore and a fantastic art style, the artist/co-creator also has a webcomic called Kill 6 Billion Demons that is very much worth checking out
I seriously think we somehow jumped into a timeline where everything is as worse as it can get and he's a dad out of nowhere. Like WTF?
IKR! I FREAKED OUT
Blud's living his life
He's raising another man's kid. GF came pre-packaged with baggage.
@@kalebm.4925sauce? Or y'all are gonna spread this because she's white? Chronically online people moment...
@@kalebm.4925 incel detected
Bro, you should come to Adepticon. The camaraderie there is amazing. I don't play 40k, I play an out of print Halo wargame that has a very small but dedicated community, and I still get that sense of brotherhood even with people that play other games. It is amazing.
One Page Rule allowed you tu play with 40K armies for less money and less rules. And as GW says: they are a miniatures company not a gaming company, buy theur miniatures not their rules^^
It’s kinda sad that the best place for a 40k fan right now isn’t 40k, it’s Horus heresy. No constant balance updates, a relatively stable rule set, a higher community focus on hobbling rather than the meta, etc. The sad reality is that the current state of 40k, especially 10th is a community for the gamer, not the hobbyist.
Also, most of the points in these video just…don’t apply to the average person. 99.9999999% of warhammer players aren’t paying thousands to enroll in tournaments across the country, they’re gonna spend the 20 buck entry fee at their local store. Your average person isn’t gonna buy they’re own terrain, they’re gonna just use the terrain at their local store.
Tacticus was cool at first, coming from a guy who's never even seen a tabletop in real life, but it got real old when I started to realize just how damn difficult it is to progress.
@@BIGBOY2SAK the concept of a tabletop 40k you can play digitally is really cool, but I feel like the magic of it is lost without playing with your own cool minis
Horus Heresy? Were you dropped as an infant lol
@@marjohnbuncio2782 do you have a proper rebuttal or is that all you have?
Zero interesting factions. And an old rule set that is crappy compared to what we have now.
I might have to make a response video to this because I genuinely feel that whilst his feelings are valid, they're bad criticisms about the hobby as a whole. He only tackled one of the three triads of the hobby. The gaming side, whilst not really commenting about the painting/building and lore side. I listened to the whole thing and might make a response to address my concerns with a lot of what he said. Sounds like he went to all out with the hobby right at the end of 9th, felt jaded with the release of 10th and only cared about competitive play and tournaments. All whilst the guy was trying to juggle FOUR armies like!? Yeah no shit you ended up hating it man aha 😂
I think that's a really good point no ones mentioning, he only talked about gaming when the majority of people who collect warhammer do not actually play the game, let alone tourneys, let alone being super fixated on min maxing. He approached the whole thing like a league of legends player lol.
This video should be retitled "how a warhammer 40k whale learned to hate warhammer 40k". Cause this is not the average experience of someone in the hobby. While I love the Warhammer ip and most of the products, I completely understand your view Matt. But i caution those watching this video that this isnt the average experience. Alot of people dont have 200 bucks each month to throw away on a hobby let alone 500. Also as some have already pointed out, warhammer 40k and age of sigmar (fantasty warhammer) have already fixed some of these problems he expressed already. My advice to ANYONE who had an intrest in this as a new hobby is to take the tiniest dip into you can with the lowest commitment and slowly build to see if this is something you will enjoy more than hate. Which is pretty much my advice for any hobby. But matt it seems you have the "either love it completely or hate it" mentality in alot of things. Id rather see you find a middleground for the things you love since its alot healthier. You can love something while it is still flawed. Nothing in life is perfect. But i agree that gw is a shitty company but they are also a company. Their entire goal is to make money. Dont hate the lion cause they have to eat but understand it. For those who love this ip, we love the community and the people in it and the creative talent who create it that work at gw.
P.s not going back through the whole video to nickpick everypoint but the one about buying a video game and you can still play it is a terrible take. I got alot of games in my steam library that cant be played anymore since the servers are down now.
I did very much enjoy Dice Check but he definitely was super disingenuous in this by representing his experience as a whale running a channel to the common persons
@@thekingofwolves1450 yes, I don't want it to get twisted that im disagreeing with all his points cause I'm not but it's def not the only advice on the hobby people should listen to. Do your research folks.
A lot of his criticisms in this video really feel self inflicted. Most people don't buy every publication, multiple game mats, and loads of terrain.
@@doctoradventure413 I do feel bad that he got burned this way, but I just think he himself does not understand what he experienced was not the hobby norm
@@thekingofwolves1450 I mean in the first 40K video he made he said that you should not buy everything all at once but it doesn’t seem like he realized he should slow down.
I think you over exaggerate a bit, for the average player they wont buy terrain, just go play in a store, books can be found online, and noone will ever make you replace old termagaunts with new ones lol
They will make you play with the new models tho if you play at an official tournament
@@Guille2033 does the average player play in an official tournament?
@@Guille2033 this is a lie. Old termagaunts are fine they just need new bases. I fucking hate that people who have never played a single tournament talk about something they know nothing of.
Most people just can't stomach that 40k isn't for you. Even magikarp kept comparing 40k to League. Bro? This is not a videogame.
@@Guille2033 That's false. At most they'll ask you to put them on a properly sized base. Unless the base is the same size in which case you are good to go.
@@Guille2033 No they won't. Unless they're on a different base size, all GW plastic is tournament legal. Go lie somewhere else.
You and DC were one of the reasons I got into Warhammer back in 2020. I had always wondered why you dropped the hobby. I completely agree with every point you made in this video. This hobby is so exhausting on your mind, on your body, and on your wallet. I'm the assistant manager of and LGS, and it's even exhausting for me from a business standpoint. It's so unfortunate that such a cool concept is implemented so poorly by Games Workshop. I love this game, I love this hobby, but damn is it difficult to keep up with. If I didn't have a group of really good friends to share it with I would have given it up ages ago.
As for powerpoint ideas, I would love to see a presentation about various aspects of life as a father; the highs, the lows, how it changes your life, etc. Thanks for another good upload!
I spent the better part of my childhood and most of my pocket money on building armies and painting them. Fast forward 24+years and my entire army of 2nd + 3rd edition Ultramarines is none playable npcs. With the realy strange exception of a single tactical squad. Even that will probably be gone soon. Now I have to spend a fortune to build an entire new army. Which is why I'm not returning anytime soon.
Yeah, my first born army is borked. Ultramarine as well...look how they massacred our boys.
Hey man, understand how you feel, burnout is real. I think chasing the meta and all, or at least chasing many armies in such a short span of time, kind of made it hard for yourself, especially with 40k being how it is. I recently got back into MESBG (LOTR tabletop) and with using proxies and having a community it made a difference, as well as the fact that it is a easier game to collect and fun to play - just a suggestion if u ever wanted to collect and try something different. Aside from that hope that you and ur family have been doing well!
I agree with a lot of your openings statements. The model price, paints, time, all that is a crazy amount to get your foot in the door. The part I disagree with is any hobby will cost a lot and have continuous cost if it's crisis protocol, magic the gathering, Yu-Gi-Oh, even just board games in general.
The issue is with card games, unless there's a rotating format your old deck would just need like new legacy support or a somewhat new engine to make it work. Even then if there is a variety of formats all the better since some formats just stick with a singular cardpool period with no updates. As a person who has hobbied a lot of different games, 40k by far is the most expensive. Mainly because of every single part costing so much. I could build a tournament rogue tier somewhat competitive deck for tourneys from scratch for like 100-200$ . That would then last me a good bit of months with no changes needed unless a surprise ban list happened. That's chump change to 40k. The main issue is these games have a significant time period where you don't need to cough up dough, and again overall just cost less. They don't have constant erratas because they don't have the limitation a game like 40k has. They also have way better online support (master duel, the magic the gathering online game, even pokemon tcg has one), and way easier ways to budget besides just essentially going to knock offs. To be fair if you mostly play with friends you guys can just gentlemen to stick to an older generation. However the fact you have to limit yourself like that in the first place can be a bummer. Which is why for the most part yu-gi-oh has stayed my one physical real life hobby game, except a couple of board games, but those don't count since they don't get updated, they just have enough complexity to make things fresh every time.
Not to mention not many games steal as much of your time as a well fueled 40k match.
Hobbying is part of the fun. If you run into this hobby head first with the thought of “I’m gonna get competitive as fast as possible” ya, you are gonna burn out.
Much less the idea that you and your friends who were new to the hobby, almost immediately got a podcast to run about it. No wonder it only lasted like 6 episodes.
Good luck with dad life!
I haven’t played 40k in over a year, so I’m fairly out of the hobby right now, but his points about how expensive 40k is was kind of disengenious…sure Warhammer is expensive, but not 500$ a month expensive unless you’re buying up everything as much as possible. It makes sense he did that for his channel, but I played Warhammer for 15 years and I maybe spent 50$ a month on a hobby I enjoyed. Also, units don’t just become obsolete. Sure, they might be “legended” if they’re super old l, but most units that are 10 or less years old are not going anywhere any time soon. Are they still meta? Probably not, but the meta swings so fast that old units become good again after a few months and the main lesson from all of this is to not meta chase and just build and paint at a slow pace while playing what you like. Moral of the story? Don’t meta chase, kids.
This exactly. I work and am a full time college student. I plan my time and money out for picking things up, never going out of my means. Through second hand, financing options, 3rd party sellers, etc. I've planned out and built up 3 armies in the last year and a half, while keeping things reasonable. I used to play MTG and keep up with the releases for that, and doing warhammer instead saved me money. It's not a "cheap" hobby, but it's nowhere near as expensive as everyone tries to make others believe it is. Hell, my entire Chaos Knights army cost me less than $500 total, and that was well spread out across months.
I disagree with the complaint about rules updates.
1. Even if all the rules were online free, a lot of players still prefer using books.
2. Regular updates are important for balance, they used to be infrequent and one army would dominate for most of an edition.
3. you can literally just print out rules changes and put them in the book, solving the problem. I use sticky notes when I can.
WAHAPEDIA !!!!!! I JUST SAVED YOU ALL FROM EVER HAVING TO BUY A GW BOOK EVER AGAIN!
Honestly real. Wahapedia + 3d printing + non GW paints = saves a shit ton of money and you get to enjoy the hobby more than normal
I'm new tp the hobby and still don't quite know what exactly to use when. Should i use Wahapedia or the 40k app? Whats the difference between the two?
@@jonasschmutzer4910 the difference is the app is official and waha is not
@@jonasschmutzer4910 Wahapedia is just a digital archive of ALL warhammer books codexes rulebooks etc. It has all the information you need to play the game it even has army points if you click on the skull icon in the bottom right corner. Compared to GW releases a new list building app with every edition and they are always terrible and full of glitches. In my opinion Wahapedia is better in EVERY way, except that it often takes a week or two to update with the brand new rules where as most of the GW apps are updated right away but then don't work and have 2 star ratings on the app store as a consequence.
@@jonasschmutzer4910 wahapedia and the app are the same with the only difference being price, wahapedia is free, app is paid.
GW really needs to just commit to digital rules. You already need to pay a subscription to use their army builder, but still need to buy a physical book to get access to the digital version, A physical book that likely has all the same lore as your previous books, and outdated rules before it even finished pre-orders. The tournament rules are only available in physical form and are still likely to be out of date within a few months of release.
Admittedly 10th edition has fixed a bunch of the rules and points issues.
• Free core rules.
• Free rules updates.
• Free points.
• Free army rules for armies yet to get a codex
Yeah, I was going to say, you do not need to buy the Core Book. It's available as a downloadable free PDF on the Warhammer Community website, as well as embedded in the app...
first hit is always free.
LUL before this GW simp gives people the wrong idea. The points aren't free after the army book comes out. Once that book comes out you're fucked until you buy the book. Also just look up how much it costs money wise just to get the army then realize how much time it will take to get it table ready for local play. GW is a trash company.
@@WolvericCatkinOnly complaint I got is the monthly sub for multiple army list. Also to have rules in app you need to buy a codex for a digital code.
If there were options to purchase digital codes for the app. That would be 100% better. Hell 10 bucks to unlock all the rules of an army along with all future updates and more. Would be really good.
@@mrcaterpillow9926 yeah that aspect of the app absolutely shocked me as i recently got in to the hobby. I gotta spend how much to get all the rules on your official app? holy. No digital key purchase option is crazy. The sub not doing anything substantial past giving warhammer tv access is brutal. You can watch all that content in a weekend. It overall seems like a big rip off to be able to save more than one list.. something i can do for free with multiple other options.
Dude Im so glad you brought up Kenny. He has the best videos and I used to watch him but then I forgot his channel name when I took a break from painting and could never find it again.
No toxic fumes with GW paint, it is water based.
The glue is the issue lol
@FlorentWyne_ I mean, super glue is entirely valid if plastic cement isn't usable. But even with plastic cement, it isn't impossible to assemble the models while kiddo is having a nap or is being cared for by others. If he has the time to paint as a parent, then he'd almost certainly have a spare few hours in the week to build some units.
And good quality too.
He may be thinking about air brushing, which would pose a hazard
I love the power point presentation direction of the channel. You should do a power point presentation on Syphilis like did in highschool. I let my partner do all the work, and all I had to do was present it to the class.
This man is just a professional hater at this point
As an AoS player im familiar with how GW does a hype train for $, but most of the heavier frustrations mentioned here had Huge community push back(needing constant new models, game states that lead to knowing the outcome before the beginig, hype burn out) . I have always seen our 40k side of the club seemed burned out. Got a lot of insight on issues that i can know going forward to help new club members who are into 40k cause dont want them to have something fun become another job
I hate how they don't give a longer period for new editions. I bought my codex a month before 10th edition got announced :)
when the last codex of an editions drops they should let that edition last for atleast 2 years before making the new edition .
@@TrexGrimStud Exactly, i can't imagine being a world eaters fan, or Votann player, and using your whole spending money of the month to realistically only play 1 game with it.
This is a solid summary of why I moved over to kill team instead. It sucks not having my big old tanks and everything but paying 60 bucks for a unit to play a concrete game feels exponentially better.
So I run a hobby shop and I have so many players that like Matt here have other responsibilities now or have just dropped 40k and if they're not having fun anymore that's a good move for them. But recently we've been running events for Spearheads in Age of Sigmar and I think that it's a perfect low investment game that still let's you have the smaller hobby investment of just painting a small band of dudes and matches only take an hour so the set up and tear down time is less feels bad than 40k. I think for anyone who is justifiably done with warhammer who maybe still wants to keep a toe in the space for the community and the hobbying and the beer and pretzels feel but don't gel with the rest of its worth looking into.
Honestly same here but iv seen a lot of players in my locals like Matt who blamed gw for their stress and quitting the game only to find out that they where burning them selves out by giving into fomo and buying the books that they dont even really need that much and also obsessing over their painting like everyone was going to notice that 1 tiny mistake they did on a shadow, my biggest tip to any new player is always to just start off with a small box or combat patrol and paint as you see fit as burn out is a scary monster.
Welcome to the dad wargaming cub. Good to have you here. Dad wargaming is still fun, ya just need to go slow. I'd suggest trying out battletech or infinity. Great games in different ways, but more importantly, they move slowly. Dads can keep up!
0:23 YOU CAN'T JUST SHOW A GRAVEYARD WHILE SAYING THAT
Yeah you don’t have time for it, for sure a combination of the things you said for sure. You have much more rewarding uses of your time now, and it’s good you are evaluating your interests like that. Family first every time. The online community isn’t big enough to support content creation and depends on patreon/subscription models to be made. Completely understandable and I’m glad to hear an update and follow your channel still.
man I got into 40k using the nids half of the leviathan box, but I hated them in 10th. Weak codex and I didnt really have enough of one detachment to really make it work. Votann on the other hand I fucking love. Oathband detachment, and their army rule is awesome and it has been a lot of fun to play. I honestly dont think I would still play if it wasnt for votann. I do agree as a new player the best part has been putting together and building my models. Learning how to magnetize the models was a lot of fun. The playing of the game, dice rolling was fun, seeing your strategy come to fruition was a great part of the game. Also managing an insane comeback after having a terrible turn 1 or 2 has been nuts. down 30 points going into turn 3 only to win it in the back half has been the highlight of my time playing so far. Votann does have snowball potential and can runaway with a game if you have some good rolls so thats a bit unfair of a comparison. Also theres the mobile app that you get the entire codex for free if you buy the codex. You dont really need the core rulebook if you arent playing in tourneys, but it is require if you are, but the 40k app is free if you have the codex.
One page rules (OPR) is a very neat simple war gaming rule set that encourages you to use proxies and even has a completely free, one hundred percent online, rule sheet. It may not have all the bells and whistles as WH40K but it is very competent in its simplification of wargaming rules and there are custom miniatures that you can purchase pre-printed or get the supported file for your 3D printer. It's far more affordable and customer centric. I highly recommend it.
I recently made the same decision and alot of the points you raised echo quite strongly with me.
The sheer amount of time demanded of you, the space it takes up in your home, the chasing the newest thing or having to use the newest thing to be able to have a chance in a game. The game itself imo is just a terrible play experience each time. You set up your models, taking ages to do so and then you get shot off the board turn 1... or missed 1 ork that was in view of all your enemies guns and so on... the amount of time it takes to complete a game too, you just feel exhausted by the end of it. Each time I set up a game, I just feel anxious whether I will actually have a good time.
When it came down to it, my friends and i realised the only time we have fun with warhammer was when we play it together but never with strangers because there isn't as much banter and the raw issues of the game are more evident. We came to the conclusion that we could have a better experience if we just played a different game.
We decided to try the asoiaf miniatures game. It's been a much better hobby experience overall already. Would highly recommend it.
Gotta love how the first ad of the video is a Warhammer tactician ad lol
The heroin needle thing had me laughing. I still get the models just because I like painting them, I don't play it and I suspect that's what most people do. Going to give Mordheim a shot later.
It sounds a little to me like you perhaps got too deep into a particular part of the community that leaned more competitive than the average(in my experience) person does in this hobby. I don't think the typical player runs in to all of these problems, at least not in my area. I think the fact that these models do cost the amount that they do and because of how long they take to build/paint etc, this only further encourages the idea of "the rule of cool" that I see conveyed everywhere. Because we all know the meta shifts constantly. If you are a meta chaser and want to compete for prizes etc... yeah these issues you are talking about all make more sense, but you are gonna encounter them in virtually any gaming hobby that you want to take to any level of competition. It's not all that different from MTG players rebuilding decks for hundreds of dollars every few months. I don't have a solution to that, and I do think it's unfortunate how much these hobbies can cost if taken to a competitive level. But it's just a reality that they do.
I just felt like the way in which you presented these problems was as if these are universal issues and I just can't agree that they are. Especially with the book issue, as many have already pointed out, there's so many of us that have hardly any of the physical books and get by more than okay. Maybe you need to get used to navigating web pages and pdfs a bit more to compete with your preference for a physical book. That's fine, but I don't think it's a huge deterrent as implied here. You can print out pdfs too.
All of that being said, I do think its gross how much GW has gotten away with charging for virtually everything. Their app alone is absolutely disgusting to me and such a money grab.
yeah, if you want a wargame that covers all your complaints: battletech
the core rules are static, the models are eternal and usable in 3/4 different games, if your opponent brings something weird it's their job to bring the rules, rules are adjustable depth, multiple ways to balance your games, dirt cheap, kitbash friendly...
good stuff
I mean you could just buy one or two armies and have fun with your friends. You dont have to play metalists everytime. GW has never been known for balance.
Hey Matt, been a while, congrats on the kid.
Also, about the Hobby rule bloat, I honestly just take the models and play with a different homebrew rule set. I used Bolt Action as a base.
Edit: The best part about this is not having a crappy company like GW swapping out rules to make you buy new models and you can balance the game with a focus on however you want (we balanced for lore, its night mare and really fun to have rules where your Imp Guard blob literally melt to 5 space marines and a single custodian never dies).
I have not played 40k before, so I apologize of my ignorance ahead of time, but what prevents a player from just… not updating to the latest book? Cant you just play an older version of the game to prevent spending tons of money every month? I get that you need a new book if a new unit gets released, but at that point you can just wait on buying that unit, until you finally choose to update to the latest release.
Nothing, nothing at all prevents a player from doing that. And all the unit datasheets are available online.
FOMO
It's not a single player game. If you want to not update you have to find an opponent who didn't update either.
Convincing someone to not update is the hard part. It can be done initially but when GW comes out with something new and shiney the urge to update is there. Also if your opponents army was underpowered in the old rules and overpowered in the new rules they will update. Or every time they lose it will be because you have forced them to hamstring themselves to play old rules with you. I'm not speaking from experience or anything /s
There is absolutely no need to spend a ton of money every month at all, and for the current edition of the game, he has misrepresented it greatly. In particular, the rules are free and online. They even have them compiled in an app for easy access. All the supplements and updates are also free and released online. There is almost zero cost for rules. The only exception being the codex, and that is only if you can't wait a day or two for someone to put them online. And if you want to play with old rules, you can find all of it online for free. There is no reason to just spend money on stuff, especially if you've got your army completed and playable.
I do love Warhammer as a setting, models, painting, and kitbashing are the most fun. Granted I live in a very rural area so my expectation of ever getting to play an actual game is 0.2%. As far as what you say I agree that trying to get into the game there is an expectation to keep in the loop that changes every 4-5 months. So I only ever buy things I think would be fun to make. Also the GW pricing is absurd in this economy. That all being said Wargames bolt action is coming out with their Version 3 after over a decade. So I think I will give that a try.
I feel like a lot of the points about "hard to find rules" have been fixed almost completely in 10th, an edition that also seems somewhat more balanced (after the eldar index nerf obviously)? As far as I know even the top armies aren't as oppressive as 9th was (but it still is early to tell).
On the cost of books and models that can get deleted off the game or become obsolete I completely agree with you, it is insane, for example I play Dark Angels, and in 10th a lot of our specific units got put into legends, granted I don't play tournaments, so I can still use those legends units, but the fact that they are in legends, it means that they probably wont exist next edition.
On the topic of "keeping up" with 40K and the "amount" of books and new models to buy I think isn't a problem for most people? Outside of the insane prices I mean, but on an overall "keeping up" with the game. Those that play casually, probably have just one army, that requires 1, maybe 2 books at most, and will get max 2 new models in the edition (unless its Space Marines) if they are lucky.
Lastly, time investment is also really relative, it is a time consuming hobby and you decide how much time you want to spend on it, the same way I spend lots of hours on the newest Videogame, I can spend them on the hobby, but I also thing that this part of it is way less problematic if you have friends to paint and just hang out hobbying with.
But! Happy to see you again and well, you are one of the people that got me and by proxy some of my friends into 40K, and I will always be thankful of that.
It also sounds like bad luck, he's complaining about nids getting new models when the Termagaunts are from 2001, and all the nids players I knew were excited about them. Sounds like he just got too deep into the hobby too fast and got burned out, and didn't do enough research to make it last long enough
@@samadams8533 also the fact that he had to manage Dice Check, that escalates the quantity of armies to have ready, and therefore time spent also.
You were one of the reasons I got into 40k. I'm still playing it and loving but definitely agree with many of the points. Like every time a new player joins the hobby they need to hear some PSAs: 1: never buy forgeworld 2. stick to 1-2 armies 3: use wahapedia/online resources
The game's super fun and a lot more balanced right now than it's been in a long time. It's honestly not a bad time to get back in.
That part about the constant updates and balance changes hit hard. I really got back into 40k when 10th edition hit, getting really into the rules, but over time the motivation to play or find the time to shedule a game faded. Recently there was this huge balance change update, where I feel like I have to relearn the whole thing again and it honestly has become a big hurdle in me playing. I hate how you can't take a break of a couple of months.
the game doesnt update that much, major changes are 6 monthd (and there isnt usually that many) and points changes are 3 months. you are being hyperbolic.
@@warpseer thats still way too often.
If youre just getting in to the hobby and your watching this video. Dont listen him.
I only play older editions. Playing competitively is the only reason to play the newest editions. The new edition isn't better, it's just different. Especially with the 8th,9th,10th reboot, they didn't balance anything, they only rehauled the whole game.
So I only play 1st, 5th, 7th editions (5th as kind of a joke and 1st as a nostalgia trip) because the game was already at a point by 7th that everything good was already in the game and you can homebrew anything that was released after.
what wrong with 5th? (besides balance, but thats every edition's main problem)
Excellent video, and I'd like to hear more of your insights. 1) Was there a final straw moment for you that broke you? 2) Have you played any of the specialty games? 3) Did you get into the lore/read any of the books?
Sounds like this was all self inflicted with the tourney stuff and your obsessive need to min-max everything about the game. Always makes me laugh when the 40k fans who jump right in and start spendijg upwards of 20k (havent forgotten about the vid you made just to flex on us poor 40k players showing what you could buy and we couldnt) just to rhen turn around after they have lemon squeezed every drop on enjoyment from non stop playing, and say "this game sucks" and then go on to list all the reasons they dislike it. Its like the queen complaining to the subjects that white suger is awful and your so glad you dont have to eat it. All the while the normies are starving beneath then wanting even a slice of what they have experienced. Really sad to see you like this man. Congrats on being a dad. If i could leave you with something becauee as a former league of legends min maxer myself, these kinds of issues will never stop unlesss you yourself decide to make a change.
You shared a lot of fair criticismas about competitive 40k and all the agony that comes with chasing the meta alongside the grind of playing at the highest level. I am sorry to hear about all the bad things you experienced with 40k. I hope that you still get to hold onto the good memories, and that you get to paint or play a casual game on your own time/terms. If you are still looking for other tabletop games to enjoy, that maybe have fewer issues, I recommend checking out Conquest: The Last Arguement Of Kings (from Para Bellum) or A Song Of Ice & Fire (from CMON). The latter is way less expensive and time intensive, especially since all the miniatures come preassembled and ready for games. Good luck with your next adventures in life!