You've found a subject that is very near and dear to my heart. I've spent a lot of years programming RNG both in business apps and games in a previous career, and a long time teaching the subject in College (36+ years) I was not aware that you could set a game seed in the command line for D2. Wow. So without overriding with a specific seed the game will just generate one using a Timer or something (obviously, you've figured that part out). But the C language implementation of a default RNG() function has an interesting way of operating. Every RNG() call uses the PREVIOUS RNG() results to seed the next RNG() call. The very first RNG() call uses the -seed passed on the command line. So first event rng() result is passed to the second event rng() and so forth. And as you stated the exercise becomes figuring out when the game is calling rng(). Visiting a zone generates an rng() call. (Think of it as a random seed for that level that you visited) and is very easily reproducable. Visiting a shop keeper? Probably not. Unless it is calling rng() to populate items in the shop? Now there is a very very interesting fact to this. You don't have to reproduce all 25 (N) steps to this if you know or figure out one of the values along the way. Lets say the sequence is 10001, 8, 23, 100, 4, 16, 3000 You can follow the exact chain, OR, you could simply initialize the Seed to 16 (in this case) and it will generate 3000 EVERY SINGLE TIME, and be much easier to reproduce. Now, I have a theory, that Brevik and crew used just a regular old, standard RNG() function and didn't do anything custom with it (just a guess) So, you could plug the Seed into a regular old rng() call (whatever -seed you intialized with) and you could use the result as a NEW game -seed and skip the first event you did in your chain. I don't think the exact order you are using really matters. The BER rune is just the Nth rng() call, each using the previous rng() result (or starting seed, in case of the first) I could give you some code and show some demo's if it's an interest to you...
Could this mean that spawning of monsters also forces RNG calls, like rolling elite monster bonuses? There must be more than one rng pool... for example rarity seems to vary even if item bases match
@GGMentor Thanks for giving proper credits! I'm the author of the video your referenced. It all started when I saw a video posted by Llama about the Mal rune farming. Then I got interested into how map seeds work up to the point where I found a dude in an obscure reddit post that said that a specific Seed on specific /playercount dropped him a Ber rune once or twice. I knew I was onto something. So I spent the whole weekend figuring out how the chest/poppable mechanic works. Turns out it's all about how much distance you walk between the spawnpoint and the distance you make to reach the chest. I was using poppable on my way to the chest to actually have a "tool" to calculate my run/walk distance. So I knew if I tried every combination of distances, I would eventually find the "right spot" for the Ber rune on said settings. And that's what I did, with time and dedication. :P By clicking on specific items on the ground, it helps reproducing the walk/run pattern instead of going "free-form with the mouse". Within a specific loot table of a chest, there seems to be another underlying range for the Quality of the Items. Everything is based on the frames. I was able to get the same Yellow back to back, with the same statistics. Same for Grand Charm Skillers. However, when a Gray item drop in that said frame, it seems purely random (ethereal or not, number of sockets, etc) I might be wrong. I'm a filthy casual player with limited time so I was never able to get Enigma without using external programs (which I can't set my mind to use). However, understanding all the game mechanics and finding a way to use everything the game has to offer and keep grinding, applying target-farming was really a nice puzzle for my mind to solve! Diablo 2 is truly the greatest game of all time.
No problem, but big pimpin in the kinship deserves the credit, once we found the seed code he plugged the seed code into search and found your post and brought it to my attention.
ok now keep pushing - you just found the peak of the iceberg. how does this convert to online and how can we find formulas to find what we want based on the environment/seed we got?
Single player drops are somewhat seeded, if you follow a certain pattern / timing of looting stuff, it will drop the same items. Same as Diablo 1, checked it out by save state before slaying a unique monster, did a countdown on every load state (1,2,3,4,5,etc) and the same items would drop everytime,
Correct and we know this by the way that people farm armor and weapon stands in a particular way by doing the same thing: taking a set order of actions and approach to the stand (including what mobs are around or not when going to pop it). This actually makes perfect sense that that kind of stuff would apply to “RNG” of chest pops too. So cool to see that the code is slowly being cracked lol.
@@dontmugurself as no computer can generate real random numbers to my understanding, but guess real life cant eather, random is just a expression of history and physics leading up to a event, we as humans are to dump to understand, with this statement, and unlimited intelligence and computer power, we can predict the future!
Very cool video changed my perception about how I see the game now. I did what you said and follow the steps and lo and behold I get Ber rune every single time. as I was collecting my bers I decided to go to the black marsh instead of Travincal and changed my pattern a little bit, and I popped the last super chest and I got a Gul rune! however I could not for the life of me replicate it wish I have recorded it...
I knew it! I said months ago that I was pretty sure I was always getting the same exact drops from my LK armour rack pops. It was just too consistent to be a coincidence. I was like I think the seed has a frame timer. I feel so vindicated. Thank you.
I made a post about timers being used in the Time lost Proto Drake during WotLK in World of Warcraft. People thought I was nuts. I was able to deduce that once that mob was killed, a countdown timer would start. Once that countdown timer elapsed, the mob could spawn again if certain criteria were met. If the criteria were not met, the countdown timer would start again. I was a map maker in original Starcraft. The engines blizz used never really utilized "true" RNG. They used a combination of triggers to spawn mobs, or for items to drop.
Crazy. It actually worked. I didn't have tele on my barb so I skipped the skeleton right after the waypoint and that seemed to make the timing line up just fine. I get a Ber almost every time.
-seed in target line changes the way game does randomness. You can test this by removing the -seed from target line, but enter the game with the same char (so you have the same map) and now try to replicate the results. In speedrunning we call this active and inactive seed. Active seed drops can be easily manipulated, but with seed inactive this kind of loot manipulation is not possible.
The first thing I was wondering is if this worked without using -seed. If it does not then you might as well just inject the items onto your character with software because there is very little difference. edit: just tested it... even though the map layout in single player is the same, the breakables, chest locations, monster spawns, and racks are not. Meaning this is far less interesting than it appeared to be. By using -seed you are quite literally forcing the game to have a specific variable, and therefore can't even be considered farming legit. It's no different than using hero editor other than you have to discover where things drop and then you can find it infinitely.
I don't quite agree, because I've noticed a repetition of items found by following a certain path from weapon racks, and playing and trying many hours I still haven't found the perfect path and map to find runic claws and great claws said this means that the game even if you don't seed has pre-set packs where you can find 40%(x) items 30%(x) items etc....so each person is free to find the perfect path to that particular object or rune, it is obvious that even if you have found the perfect path it is not 100% certain that you will find that object as there are too many variables and in my opinion it is good to find the right balance
Holy crap... dude... you are a Mensch, a savior even. I'm 47, played D2 original back in the day, and have been loving D2R as the evolution of a great game from my youth. That said, I have full time job and dad duties, but still love smashing demons and loot farming. I only play offline (my multiplayer days of LAN parties of Counterstrike, 10 years of WoW raids, WOT shoot 'em up etc are over.) which has severely limited my ability to access some of the runeword-driven meta builds. This -seed command (which can be just plugged into the tile on your desktop, as I already do for "-enablerespec") kicks ass!!! I finally have Ber runes (and thus Jah/Cham/Zod) ON TAP. This is f-ing AMAZING. I'm working on the timing, but I've already scored a couple.... THANK. YOU.
This! Played D2 back in ye olden days and now play D2r at 40. Highest rune found was vex back then and mal now. With this i can get high runes for better gear with less time spent farming while still having to "work" for it. I know its single player, might as wel cheat gear in but i'm looking for a shortcut, not instant end game.
I dont get you. If you need Ber runes on tap just go to a character editor and put one in your box. There's no difference in offline exploiting a RNG issue and putting it in your stash. Do you want to legit yourself because it was in the game? The only question to this exploit is how controllable is it online (seed numbers, good seed numbers, seed identification).
No offense, but why haven't you just used hero editor which was basically available when d2 came out? Both ways are cheating, which is of course no problem if you want to, but the two ways (either exploiting like in the video or hero editing) don't differ.
@@CaptainMarci104 the difference is you didn't have to use a 3rd party program to give you the item...you literally had to do the foot work to figure out how to get it without using a 3rd party program
@@josephpotoczek7560 yeah sure, but that has nothing to do with what the op said. I mean both ways are well known, the op didn't have to the footwork to figure out anything.
Wow, incredible. Tested for myself, works. One thing I'd like to add, I am doing this on my sorc with only 40 FRW from Alders. Only thing I am doing different, is teleporting to the last super chest. So I am guessing skill usage does not manipulate the RNG. Also, there is a guaranteed Shako spawn with this seed. Go to Trav > Bazaar > LK, then hit the skeleton and go right to the armor stand. Easy way to farm a Shako.
Super interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if people figured out a way to take advantage of knowing these variables online someday even though you get a fresh seed each time you load up. Granted that would not be good for the economy.
Technically if every chest/stand has specific drop table and the RNG function is predictable once you know the seed you can probably reverse engineer all potential drops and combine that with an app that checks your seed on joining the game and lists where you can find what you are looking for
the seeds stuff been known for years....but the way it work was not fully figured out back then...position char was facing was something ppl assume back then when seeding..timing as well.....but not the loading of the part of maps being involve
I have always felt this on single player. You get that great meph map and you run him exactly the same way and I kept getting all the same drops (balrog blades in my case). Very cool.
It only works if the -seed option is used, which is probably a debugging option for developers. Don't use it and you won't have the same drops even if all your steps are identicals.
@@jnbrunetyou wont even have the same clickables or monster spawns... using -seed is the same as cheating the game... no judgement here but facts are facts.
Holy Shit! This explains a lot of patterns I have noticed while farming Lower Kurast. I tend to farm a specific pattern because of efficiency. I have noticed specific skeletons that kept dropping Pul and Fal runes. This opens up a whole new window of thought on how to farm any area to discover the location of an item. Basically, If you open up a million chests the same way, you will never find a Ber rune. Explains perfectly why I have never found a Ber or Jah rune or any high rune from a super chest in Lower Kurast.
Dunno, i've gotten seemingly random stuff when not using a seed but still think you're kinda right. Its probably a good idea to switch from WP's befor going LK and playing with variation to really "switch things up"
This works on unseeded single player map. Seeded runs do crazy stuff such as what is described in the video, or such as rolling the exact same runeword if you do it at the beginning of the game.
It’s awesome that you got so deep into this topic. I had noticed this exact thing years ago with a Shako, Harlequin from an armor rack. I didn’t figure out the exact pathway, however I was able to replicate it a few times over countless attempts. I ended up stopping as I didn’t care at that time. Every map and character loads different maps, so this isn’t able to be replicated for every character unless this specific map is loaded. Also, I’ve taken consideration that depending on what you have done prior to getting to this point changes every outcome… example is, if you killed meph already vs not. So many factors and variables without knowing how it gets to that outcome. I love it!
I always felt like i would see some repeated drops when running LK runs one after the other. But it wasn't ever notable enough for me to be like, " hey, this is the exact same crossbow, yari and gold drop as 15 runs ago."
Ive noticed on my SP LK runs I keep getting the same thing out of certain clickables. Armor racks always drop one of 3 things, and the weapon racks always drop a Silver-Edge axe. Its the weirdest fuckin thing.
@@andrewabrams8459 rack drops are their own thing. They will drop the same item base if you approach from the same direction. Monsters /summons being near and other racks you've clicked on will affect the next racks you click on as well.
Software engineer here. What you are describing at the end about the lists of variable types and them ending up consistently the same for items/monsters/resistance etc sounds alot like there is static enums or lists containing all these values and based on chunks loaded theres a index and so if that chest is set to drop 1 rune and you happen to roll the same index(based on chunks loaded) you will always get RUNE_LIST[158] or RUNE_LIST[159] which is your ith and ber rune. Generating random numbers can be resource intensive especially in the old days when this game was made so its very likely that the number generator is a shared class(singleton) and because of that that's why you end up with all these different values ending up the same. It's because the app uses that shared method to get a "random" index(based off chunks) and uses that value as the index for list of runes, monster names, resistances, etc which would explain why you get predictable results.
Nice, I remember this from the rack running in older patches more than 20 years ago. On the original CD version 1.07 patch the TC for MF was unfinished and capped at TC66 and Hell bosses didn't drop any item above TC40, TC meaning treasure chest. The only way of finding elite items was RACK RUNNING. So you had to find your way out with map seeds, game seeds, monster seeds, room seeds and player seeds in order to make a rack drop a certain base item, then run it until it drops unique or set. Not just LK but in every place there were racks with high enough TC (Nihlathak’s temple, act V tunnels, etc). One thing, MF didn't affect rack dropping so you had to reset hundreds of maps, wear as much run/walk as possible and find and click the right spots
This is just mind blowing and so unbelievably awe inspiring! Well done GGM! Maybe, just maybe, this will lead to new knowledge that will allows us to figure out the Arcane Sanctuary
after the 2 blue poision amulets u stopped using ur shiver armor skill in town just before taking the waypoint to trav . maybe thats why it changed ... This stuff changes the way ppl will think and maybe even play d2 .. truly rad!
It's most likely due to how sp mimics online. Every player action has to be registered by the server (the same interaction exists even on SP except u essentially have 0ms) and every time the server receives player info it refreshes the drop tables.
A sit down with a member of the dev team to explain the workings of everything happening in the background would be amazing. This game is timeless and the fact that every couple months there are new things being found is crazy. I thought the Act 4 unlimited MF easter egg was the last thing that mattered, but knowing more about the complexity of the RNG would be massive for the entire community.
@@soggdogg Llama has a video on it...basically if you stand in a certain area in act 4 the ghosts start to spell out some of the dev team's initials and you are granted 9999% (or something unfathomable) mf for a period of time in that game.
@@GGMentor Yeah, and to know exactly what a "variable" is even allow for even more theory crafting...for example - if I kill a shaman, then kill a demon archer, then kill a fallen, does that produce a particular drop that was intentional by the devs? Was their intent to create a set of circumstances that were meant to be accomplished in a single playthrough to produce a particular outcome? Or was it simply just a truly random GOOD LUCK system that people have been playing for 23 years and just figured out how to manipulate? This is a great video and I hope it creates a lot more energy from the community into trying to "crack the code."
@@rlig5932 the drops are apparently deterministic but not in the way of the devs programming "click this, kill that, open this" and a 25/20 260 griffon will drop every time. it's just about the rng function that from what we see in the video uses a common basic principle. the rng function always performs a certain algorithm on the value it is fed and spits out a new number. but this new number will again be used as the input for the next rng call. but because of the rng function always performing the same logic the same input will always result in the same output. that means it's not really random but a chain of numbers that circles through however many numbers available in the datatype used for the variable. for a 16 bit unsigned integer that would be 65536 values or the numbers 0 to 65535. if the first number is 0 it would get x then y then z.... until the last number in the chain and 65534 "random" numbers later the input of the last value would result again in 0 when the chain would start again. usually events that use rng are implemented something like this: for example the health pots in d2 don't always heal the same amount. pots can actually "crit" where they heal double the amount and twice as fast. the devs want this to happen 1/3 of the time while 2/3 of the pots drank should be normal heal. so the devs implement a function like this: call rng value and divide it by 3. if there is a modulo 1 or 2 it's not divisible by 3 so it's normal. if modulo is 0 it is divisible by 3 so it's a crit. then heal double and fast. but every single of those calls advances the list of "random" numbers. if we would know what this value is and what value we need for a certain outcome we could essentially have every item and desired rolls happen when we want all the time. what gmm found here is a specific seed that with a certain string of rng calls always results in the ber rune because he always opens the chest at the right value in the string of pseudo random values.
I had an idea about this! I figured this one by changing maps in LK (endlessly) until I could consistently get a cryptic axe from the weapon rack. Eventually I got my 4os eth cryptic axe that I’ve had my infinity in to this day! Thanks for the knowledge! Love Learning about the game.
This video was so good, I was away from D2R for a while, now you're making me actually want to create a single player character and load it with Ber runes just to have the feeling of it lol
the same seed works for Lo rune as well, player 7, wait 15 seconds at act 3 town WP. after 15 second standing on WP go to trav, then back to LK. walk no tele. open the chests from first one closest to you. First hut on the right, then the stash next to the second, open chest right then left, next hut right then left. Lo rune. I've gotten 3 so far. You tube has a video of it. I found it interesting that its the same seed as the Ber
My god, this works 100%. i went strictly for the ber rune, with 68% ms. it still worked in the same way, as long as i figured out where i needed to hurry or slow down
I have found a way to produce the ber rune (doing the same run) and then continue in the same game to find a gul rune. If anyone is interested, I will try to post a video.
I was able to farm 20 bers thanks to you It was hard to get the timing right but combining few teleports is enough to mimicking you with only +45% movement speed(runeword stealth + magic boots)
One of the biggest jaw dropping content I've been witnessing for this game and I'm playing since 2004 gone through all the hacked, duped, bugged and bottled craps of what open/closed bnet has to offer for 2 decades. I claim myself as almost a walking D2 encyclopedia, shamefully lol, yet wow this is jaw dropping. Can't wait to go home and try on my own
Good work! It does remind me that a few weeks ago when I was doing countess runs, it gave me sacred targe off the arm rack each time in 4 games in a row. It was interesting none of them were +Res, they all were +ed. I don't recall if they were exactly same but at least two of them should be very similar from my memory.
Racks seem less sensitive to variables so you will often see them give identical items. But your observation is correct =} Armor and weapon wrack manipulation is much easier than other types
Hi, I've been working as a sw dev for.. some time, I will try to keep it short & simple: fundamentally, in sw there is no way to generate a truly random number. What is used instead are PRNGs (pseudo-random number generators). You can imagine one as a mathematical formula, which given a number calculates the next one, resulting in an infinite sequence like [56, 81, 63, 31, 42, 17, ... ]. To appear random, generated values have a uniform distribution (say you generate 10K numbers between 1-10, you should end up with each of them appearing ~1000 times - the formula/mechanism inside the PRNG is designed that way). Now, everytime a sw needs to do a "random" decision (which tetris block to send next, will you hit or miss, which NPC animation to play, what monster group to spawn, how much life to roll on an amulet : } ), it will ask the PRNG to generate the (next) value, and run a simple calculation like "if the generated number is divisible by 3 you hit, else not", for a 33% chance "random" event. The PRNGs are usually seeded=initialized with time (number of elapsed ms/cpu ticks since some past date), so that you won't end up with the same sequence of "random" numbers (and in turn with the same sequence of "random" outcomes) everytime you restart your.. game, shuffled playlist, simulation, etc - since given the same seed, the PRNG will generate the same sequence of numbers, no matter how many of them you'll ask for - always the same numbers in the same order. Fixing the seed to a constant value is useful sometimes, say you are procedurally generating stuff, or training an AI on a simulation containing random events and it crashes sometimes™ - you'd want to log the seed number so that you can later re-run the simulation with the same seed, effectively replaying what happened, reproducing the error. tl;dr So here, someone discovered a seed which generates a sequence containing a "drop ber when opening chest" (say number 17) fairly early in the seq (say position 34), then used an util to read this seed value out of the d2.exe process memory, you are then fixing your game's PRNG via launch options to be always seeded/initialized to this value, then doing stuff ingame to cause the game to consume 33 numbers, so the 17 is the next "random" generated value when clicking the chest. Sometimes your "drop ber" is consumed by the game calculating if a mob should successfully hit your merc or not (assuming those two things consume from the same sequence), or by an NPC deciding which way to walk since you've spent too much time in town, sometimes you are "not there yet". Btw, there is a good chance those two identical rare amulets got the same "random" item id assigned (depends on how much effort they've put in making item ids truly unique). Soo, sorry but from my POV crippling/manipulating the game's random number generation mechanics in your favor is not legit.
I would guess D2 has several separate rng “feeds”. I would also guess events in town don’t matter for the rng, since we noticed that time in town or which town doesn’t matter. That would make sense, because nothing random happens while sitting in town. Regarding “item ids”, I would guess that affixes are assigned with a different RNG feed from what base is dropped, including rarity. We know about “failed set” items that result in blue items with double durability, this to me shows they’re independent rng sequences. And regarding “not legit”, you’re right because it’s an exploit, but to me learning about the inner mechanisms and development choices is far more stimulating and interesting than “omg i got a ber rune after 10 bajillion runs of LK” when it’s all deterministic at its core anyway
@@Rievax17 the entire problem here is that the seed pool is fixed. if you limit the number of events that consume it (ie, avoid fighting monsters and have a tight SK layout) you increase the chance of consuming the Nth pool number consistently and that value leads to a ber rune through the pachinko cascade. @GGMentor the reason you sometimes obtain amn/ort is because your first roll selects a rune as with ber but the subsequent roll didn't eat the Mth pool value. the initial actions of clicking other items is just shifting the index. so this seed has at least an RNG pool of "A B C D E F [G] H I [J]" - A is consumed by travincal load, B by first click, etc. this is also why walking is preferred to avoid consumption of H/I. movement of grid position and other factors will consume from the RNG pool. once you figure those out you can perform actions to specifically skip specific indices and you have your repeatable pattern. is this cheating? no. the entire point of the seed parameter was to test this specifically in unit tests to verify the loot cascade design was working. congrats on peeking behind the curtain. if you really want to pile ok load a modified game table where ber runes replace bolts and run a cow level and watch the popcorn spray. its just another cli parameter too so how can that be called exploiting. single player is just there for testing anyhow. don't take it so seriously. glhf
@@kehlarn6478 I agree with “don’t take it so seriously”, however I’m not sure the RNG algorithm is as simple as “n RNG pachinko cascades produces a ber rune”. Theres clearly nuances here related to directionality/modifiers related to certain actions. I suspect different actions result in different “modifiers” to the mutated seed. For example, the starting seed is 22556745. An RNG event happens, which triggers a call to the rng function, producing the new seed of 17 (number doesn’t matter, it’s arbitrary). But, since that event was “go to the 9th waypoint” or trav, the function will do a modification of the 17, say, %9, giving the new seed as 8 as opposed to 17. These small modifications to the RNG function result in drastically different results in the ultimate lookup table for the super chests, and that’s why the directionality and order of specific events matters. Otherwise, you could simply do n rng lookups and guarantee a ber rune out of that particular superchest
@@Rievax17 first a clarification of terms. a seed is the initial input to srand() to select the RNG pool. the Nth term of said pool is obtained via calling rand() N times. you do not seed more than once lest you break the point of a fixed seed. the video itself is proving that if you start with a specific seed and burn off unwanted N entries the superchest will consume the one you want and you get a ber. that's the entire point of the video. confirming the order of events to burn unwanted selections. there are specific events in the d2 engine that consume elements of the random pool. that's why i said not interacting with monsters, casting, only walking to reduce the number of them consumed is a requirement here. all this is well known and programs exist to reveal the seed and more importantly the current next rng value. the online RNG algorithm is slightly modified but the same premise holds. the loot cascade I refer to is actually how loot is selected within the game files. a given row is selected and has distribution values of what to yield. the next roll selects a column within that row. if the result is another loot class, repeat until you get a final item. "aiming" rng down this table has been done and is a basic problem when you play with the rarity values when making your own mods
This is so much fun! I just started playing D2R for like a month and I play offline. I was thinking that I will never able to find Ber rune for Enigma. I can't even beat HELL yet. Anyway I think I will try to push it to act III and try this method. Took me like 20 tries to get the feel. Must set game to /players8; you can use teleport but as you said, cant be too early nor too late. I got 10 Ber runes in next 16 runs. Thank you for sharing.
Some one found the BER seed! I was able to replicate this without hitting the skeleton, corpse, or armor rack. I always have to hit the stash, weapon rack and super chest first before going to the second super chest.. Also you have to take the path of the skeleton, corpse, armor rack or the stash will spawn in a different place. Then i tried just hitting the Stash and not the weapon rack then hit the super chest. and was able to get the BER to drop. After that i tried just popping the stash and didn't open the super chest, just ran into the corner of the hut to simulate the timing and again i was able to get the BER to drop. IT seems that stash by the hut is the factor. Try it yourself. Great find, now have have 20 some (cheater) BERs to throw on the ground.
GGM!!!! You have outdone yourself this time. I will be showing my appreciation immediately! Now if only we could find a similar process for slightly lower runes like Gul or Vex. I personally think that would be worth a big fat Patreon.😁
Guess what, I just found gul. I went the ber route (but was too fast), then started opening the rest of super chests. Gul dropped from the last one, which is top right in the hut next to the waypoint. Edit: found 3 guls, one of them was found with ber.
I didn't know about this mechanic, but last week I found 2 Sur in a span of half an hour and the next day again 2 Sur in about 15 minutes (offline of course). Seems like I have a Sur map and now only need to try to find out what exactly I did on these occasions.
Found it: -seed 1371615818 Players 7, map has two fires, first just above to the waypoint and the other just behind in the same direction. Happy Sur-hunting!
In 1.07. rack runs are pretty popular. I've looted Tal's armour and Shako's many times. The rack/chest loot table was influenced by events in the game one time seeds but also whether you conjured a hydra under a rack. Basically the Loot table increased (found my second Tals Armor this way). I've also noticed that if I pull more monsters, the map seed also changes (presumably because another event has been triggered - Monater pull). Single player of course, this is the only way to reconstruct a game seed again
Confirmed this works perfectly. I was discouraged to learn that the game isn't actually random on the drops, then I thought this probably only applies to LK runs because it's common knowledge that these super chests have specific drop tables. Kudos to you for unlocking this specific ber drop combo.
All super chests have specific drop tables, not just LK. LK is just more convenient. In fact, I’m pretty sure all drop tables are specific and deterministic, it’s just that monsters and normal chests have a much larger pool to pull from compared to the relatively limited set of around 18000 on super chests (or something of that order). Getting a consistent result on a monster drop would be much harder tho, but if you do the exact same thing every time to frame perfection you could get the same results when starting with the same seed
All computers do is calculate numbers and do different things as a result of those calculations. This means anything happening randomly via a computer is never truly random. Computer programs and instructions are always deterministic.
@@Rievax17monster drops are random other than what each item base exists on that monster's drop table. Some monsters like wraiths have little to nothing in the drop tables so they drop rings, charms, and runes a lot. This is also why at the start of act 1 normal you seem to get a lot of rings jewels and charms
it works because forcing a -seed is making the games rng predetermined, this does not work without using -seed. it's interesting but in the end you are essentially forcing the game to play a certain way and therefore you are just cheating.
Semi-important side note: When I fail (being too fast I am guessing) I run to the northwestern superchest hut and either one of those 2 chests have dropped me a Gul rune 4 times over the past hour! so yes there is def something about those variables that impact our drop chances :-)))) awesome sauce!
nice glad your having fun with this little trick. the interesting thing about this is you can establish your own patterns like the gul rune, or others that you might devise. Don't just stick to my pattern, mess around and see what you can get on your own and then see if you can repeat it.
My experience was trial and error even with GGM's advice here. It can be done on a non sorceress which is nice since I don't have one high enough. I did it with my Javizon with a teleportation staff. Was first trying it without setting the players count to 7 since that wasn't part of the given set up. Didn't work. Though that might also be because I actually had over 80% run walk with the Hustle giving me 65% so I had to take some stuff off. Then it all came down to timing. I was still too fast a lot, got the 122 drops or the hatchet instead of the mithril point. But even getting the MP I'd get down to the target chest too soon. I was becoming convinced that you had to take some damage from something to make this work. All in all, after many times trying to get the timing right, I got 6 Bers before calling it a night. I can now make an Infinity!...well once I find a good base. Anyone got a trick for that?! lol (I know, I know...back to Cows/Pit/CS....) Thank you for all the gaming news, tips and tricks and all of that stuff, GGM!
It’s called rack and chest seeding. There are numbers referred to as seeds that remain the same as long as the situation and layout remains the same. You must approach the tiles from the same side and also the number of monsters in the area affect the drops. You can alter the drops by placing Hydras near the rack in same place same number every time and you can change what consistently drops. I have used this tactic to rack perfect 15ed max resistance sacred targe before. Also 1/1000 is a unique so you can target specific uniques this way to complete your holy grail ;) I play console tho often times. If it’s single player you can literally save your char file to a thumb drive or the cloud and then move items to shared stash and reload your char file and dupe all your items. Using this you can dupe mid or low runes and then cube them up to get all runes/rune words in the whole game Your welcome peeps :)
@@AGHathaway I don’t play offline usually, rn im playin hardcore classic ladder - reset is tomorrow!! I have played offline before for fun so I can test builds mostly. You still can’t generate a custom item out of thin air so you still have to find items to begin with. Also you could say that about anything. People want the stronger items faster in every game or situation in society in the world. People want more, faster. Way she goes. Why get infinite Ber runes to begin with then also. Should direct your comment at the overall purpose of the video. Edit: also you can’t use hero editor on console so there’s that too
@@mwa5704 it’s all about consistency. If a different number of monsters appear or don’t appear then the resulting item from the rack will change. I believe if the monsters entered the tile and then you killed them and tried to rack as if no monsters are there it won’t result in the same item because the racks result is more so determined off if x amount of monsters were in that tile. This is why you can modify the resulting item by consistently placing hydras and the same exact number of hydras in the same position. Cheers Ps. Check out my short I made ages ago on how to bug drognan outside of town for useful shopping for enchant staves etc. :)
Just a little help to everyone after playing around with this. There seems to be some type of system based variability that may require you to go faster or slower than what you see in the video. My run has to be much quicker than his, like nearly 5 seconds faster to get the ber rune. I'm using 95 frw and I may have to put in a teleport after hitting the first super chest if things feel to slow. My weapon rack always produces a hatchet, so if you're seeing that you need to speed it up. If you get an overseer skull or a shamshir from the chest you went too slow. Amn rune is too fast, ith rune too slow. Also, it doesn't matter what you do in town. You can talk to ormus, sit around for 5 minutes in the chest, etc. What matters is the moment you enter lower kurast. That's when the timer starts.
hmmm i always have a hatchet even with 110 frw and if i tp all the time and i get a lum if im fast and pul if slow i think. sometimes a shael also...no ber tho
@@freeky8847 No problem! Glad I could help. I was confused for such a long time trying to follow his method's timing. I think computer hardware might cause more things to load on faster computers and I've got a beefy PC so that might be why we have to move faster.
Is it timing OR is it more related to the poppables + monsters that are spawned in the game and that would explain the timing not mattering at certain points
@@computerz009 The timing doesn't matter only when you're in town. The monsters that spawn are actually the same every time if you do the same actions and follow a similar time. So items that are dropped, monsters spawned, all of it is not based on probability but precise actions and timings. It's a very interesting system.
@@GGMentor I thought I'd have to wait till lvl 85 for HR drops but was working at lvl 81 no problem. My other HRs are online so any tips on how to get Pul, um, Lo etc would be amazing!
@@catnium I don't feel like it's completely useless for online either. It demonstrates clearly how variables change the result. And for instance in Season 6 when you do your LK farms you might add a ritual to deliberately change the results like. Going to trav waypoint first than lower kurast. Or clicking on every clickable nearby before you click on the super chests.
Awesome Video. I didn''t know that D2 actually works like that. Everyone familliar with Speedrunning (especially Pokémon gen1) knows about this kind of RNG manipulation. Cool to see, that this stuff works in other games too😄
Yea im surprised that people are ok with this. At that point is it really a self accomplished find? Just edit a ber rune in at that point. I mean its a good learning tool for understanding some of how the game works but once you start to set seeds, you already take out some of the point of the game. This takes that step even further.
So I think it's just events' based. Every event creates a new preloaded set for the next event. "next chest in THIS area (also an event) will give you Y". Basically, all the gear you can find is sent to you based on the information you provide the isp: clvl, mf and the monster's level. Basically, if you can tell us what constitutes an "event" in D2 from your tests, we'd have a greater understanding of how d2 is made! Love the vid. I think changing area, killing monsters (every different type), opening chests/clickables, resplendent chests etc... all constitute preloaded sets. I do think the game generates new loot based on the next events... let us know your findings!
This explains how I was getting Flawless Amethysts, repeatedly, when I found a house with a superchest on it a short distance from a Black Marsh Waypoint. That was a nice night, many caster runes were made.
It’s a good thing you’re constantly recording. Hopefully you do some follow ups with other “recipes/combinations” for unlocking other runes, Great Charms, Small Charms, specific gear etc
Hello GGM congratz for this new content! I tried the method and something interesting happened. Following the pattern, there is no mithril point that comes out of the rack but a hatchet. No matters if I speed up or slow down, always the hatchet. BUT, i kept trying different paces and... Amn Rune out of the chest, then an Ith, and couples tries later, the Ber Rune ! That would suggest that the time spent between the rack and the chest is also key, regardless of what drops from the rack.Thought it was worth mentioning to add up to this very interesting topic. Cheers 🥂
My computer is pretty old at this point (built in 2015) and one thing I noticed was that your game loading speed is noticeably quicker than mine for map spawning. I've also been getting the hatchet but I'm now getting a consistent Ber if I walk the first half, pop the hatchet and chest, and then tele to the ber chest from the middle left of the fire pit area. Just thought this was cool and worth passing on. Hatchet looks like its probably evidence of being behind when the wep rack/ chest are popped, but the tele speed is catching me back up. (I'm at 95% FRW and 63%FCR break). Idk that was my thought at least, just wanted to pass it on @@GGMentor
@@jaketozer7841 loading speed has to do something. My are pretty quick though but not as GGM I have hatchet every time, but got consistent ber runes. It seems for me like timing between two superchests is the key here.
Amazing. I always "knew/assumed" this is the way Diablo 2 loot systems worked but had absolutely nothing to go off of but my own experience along with basic knowledge of RNG systems. Hell yes and thank you for providing the content!
Wow, the mechanics are still being unveiled lo these many years later! Dang I still remember buying LoD day it came out, who knew I'd still be learning about it 20+ years later
Thx, i now have a surplus of Ith runes... still keeping at it and it seems to count from opening chests, no particular order here but 6 and than the "ber" ith for me chest always drops. Not complaining in the least because this testing got me a 40%ed jewel. gonna keep trying tho =)
Overall its also makes to easy and not enjoyable in my opinion . I did few hundred Lk runs and result is unbeliable > 1 x ber 2 x sur 1 x Lo and bunch of mid runes that im not even mentioning . 10 max 75 ar gc ( 21 lvl ) follows with juicy skillers plus OP bases ( 3 ls 3 mind blast 1 shadow warrior feral claws is worth several bers xD ) This video is Golden Grouse indeed as long as you can catch that specific area . Anyway Well done dude and thanks for great content .
You're on to something, I've always wondered why certain uniques drop more in certain high lvl areas, like finding a diadem or corana in the pits, certain actions/circumstances are being met and the item drops. Players do this unknowingly thinking the drops are random, there's a pattern to the variables.
Thank you for this friend. If you play around, there is a way of getting Ber then a Gul. You have to get the Ber, buff your sorc, tele left to open both boxes, then tele right to the 2 unopened ones. If the timing is right I've gotten 3 Ber 3 Gul in 10 min. Again, many thanks. I played SP for a year, found 1 Ber rune. This makes it much funner, where I don't have to hero-edit. Cheers man
To clarify, the first hooch you enter is tent 1 on the right, you skip tent 2 going for tent 3, ignoring tent 4. What I'm saying do your normal thing, but then buff up and hit tent for, then tele to tend 2 (which you also skipped). Found a bunch of Guls on this run! Test it out brother
I wish i had of known this a year ago when i done 3000 lk runs for my infinity , enigma etc. Although i dont play single player anymore , this is a fantastic find for players still playing or future players. I'll never enter lk again unless I'm quickly running through when levelling a new character.
Having "predetermine" drops is almost always true in games. It would be very rare to find a game that does random drop calculation on the fly. This is why we have loading screens. The fact that there is a time during the game play where the drops are calculated and assigned to objects does not make them less randomly generated than if they are calculated on the fly. All it does is shift your perception of "random" because you are either adding or removing the time dimension. Also all of this is based off of your 9 digit seed code, which when you play the game "normally" also changes frequently. Damn interesting video tough!
This explains why I always felt my luck was so terrible in this game. I had what I thought was a perfect lower kurast map with both capsites and super chests right next to the waypoint and never rfound a thing doing it. But the wierd part was an armor stand in the building to the right that always dropped an assasin claw or cestus type weapon, every single time. I usualy find a pattern of doing things and repeat it. Ever since terror zones started, ive completely stopped doing mephisto because he has dropped absolute garbage 100% of the time. But again, im repeating a very quick process of teleporting to him and then moat tricking him. If he was droping good stuff, it sounds like he would keep doing it. But since it was garbage, it will keep being garbage cuz of these variable issues not being truly random, and the things Im doing are clearly pulling from a very poor drop table. So its more about figuring out a good pattern than repeating something that might be very bad over and over
No it doesn't. Seed affects drops but you can play the game with the seed inactive and still eventually find a ber. Just turn off the seed and you will keep the same map
Damn that's interesting. I did some research and I have found a post from 2008 that talks about this. It wouldn't suprise me if some people figured out how the number generator works with the map seed and were able to apply it to multiplayer.
To the people thinking this is useful: SEED is not = Map Seed. When you go into a offline game you will have the same map layout yes.. however the seed is different every time. So this is only useful if you are using the -seed launch command. b...bu..but i get the same drops from armor racks and weapon racks all the time without -seed command so it must be true or useful?? well no, cause weapon racks and armor racks works differently. and yes you can somewhat manipulate them to drop a specific thing (item base not which rarity)if u have the same map layout over and over. however their drops are not calculated the same as chest and monsters.
The reason this works that almost nothing uses true RNGs, but rather pseudo RNGs which (when made well) look from the outside look like random numbers but are in reality deterministic functions that lead to the same results every time. One reason is that PRNGs are way faster then true RNGs (at least a factor of 1000 if not more) so basically everything that is not completely reliant to have true random numbers (for example crypto) rather uses a form of PRNGs. Also CPUs back then when Diablo 2 launched didn´t support the creation of true random numbers, so you had to get creative if you actually wanted to create a true RNG. And all you do is basically making sure that the PRNG is exactly at the same state before you click the chest, so you get your desired "random" number when opening the chest.
Yeah, it’s just about finding the events that matter to the rng function. Does the specifics matter or is every event treated the same (eg loading a waypoint vs looting a corpse)
@@Rievax17 Most likely they have a single PRNG function used by everything in the game that needs a random number. The seed is basically the starting position of this function, and each use of the function would increase this by one. For your desired result you need the seed + number of function calls lead to the needed "random" number. There are certainly many types of actions that could lead to the desired results, but it is hard to tell from the outside how many RNG-Calls an action you do in the game will make.
@@Rievax17 Most likely the results von an RNG event trigger even more RNG events. Therefore if you slightly change the order of events you get different results from a different order from klicking the same armor rack. One click may generate 10 RNG events, another 12, and you only need a difference of 1 for a different outcome on the superchest
Often times when I get a cool item like a good unique item, I get excited and do the exact same thing I did in a new game and I find it interesting that I get the same good unique item again from the same source. I often joke that I’m about to get another one soon after because of how often it seems to happen. Interesting 🤔
You will also get the lo rune here by going wp to either kurast bazaar or upper kurast first then lower kurast in player 7 doing the same pattern except there is no stash in the middle hut but just directly open the armor rack and supper chest and going to the supee chest where ber runes but drops lo rune instead 😊
I mean you just cheated with extra steps. Finding this exact seed on your own by resetting difficulty would take longer than finding a ber rune. If you're gonna do this then just hero edit in a ber lol
IDK why, but with my assassin it just worked when I followed the steps in the speed of light. 100%+ of run speed, and teleported as much as I could. that was the most consistent way for me.
I can't believe this. Been playing since I was little, never found higher than a Lo rune. Just got my first Ber from this. I used a Paladin with 53% FRW (Vigor and 20% boots). No teleport. So cool
I had something like this when I was farming LK and I kept on getting a thresher on this one weapon rack. I hit it about 100 times and a number of the threshers turned out to be ethereal.
You don't need a seeded SP game to do that. The RNG is like that, if you have the same map from being SP without the -seed command you get the same base from the rack every time you do a certain list of steps and approach it from a certain direction. Seed map would do it so that you'll get the very same item id on that weapon rack. I used to have an unseeded SP map on one of my sorcs that would drop Sacred Targe from an armor stand any time i approached it from a particular direction.
This explains why I kept finding Lo runes in the same spot in a lower kurast. I just never made the connection. I had a good map for LK and every now and then I would do Trav run in between. I found like 8 Lo's in a matter of an hour. Thought I was super lucky. But i must have been just mindlessly and unknowingly doing the same thing over and over with a slight variation. Will be paying attention to this from now on. It also would explain why ladder maps are always random. Much harder to abuse.
While farming without a set seed i got a vex rune from a chest. Did the exact same thing for a couple of runs but got different drops from the same chest. Not sure what this means.
@Ginger Gaming Mentor This is a historically important youtube video. Thank you for this important diablo 2 share. This is big. Someone call Asmongold and inform Elon Musk... this is fire!!!
You've found a subject that is very near and dear to my heart. I've spent a lot of years programming RNG both in business apps and games in a previous career, and a long time teaching the subject in College (36+ years)
I was not aware that you could set a game seed in the command line for D2. Wow.
So without overriding with a specific seed the game will just generate one using a Timer or something (obviously, you've figured that part out).
But the C language implementation of a default RNG() function has an interesting way of operating.
Every RNG() call uses the PREVIOUS RNG() results to seed the next RNG() call.
The very first RNG() call uses the -seed passed on the command line.
So first event rng() result is passed to the second event rng() and so forth.
And as you stated the exercise becomes figuring out when the game is calling rng().
Visiting a zone generates an rng() call. (Think of it as a random seed for that level that you visited) and is very easily reproducable.
Visiting a shop keeper? Probably not. Unless it is calling rng() to populate items in the shop?
Now there is a very very interesting fact to this.
You don't have to reproduce all 25 (N) steps to this if you know or figure out one of the values along the way.
Lets say the sequence is 10001, 8, 23, 100, 4, 16, 3000
You can follow the exact chain, OR, you could simply initialize the Seed to 16 (in this case) and it will generate 3000 EVERY SINGLE TIME, and be much easier to reproduce.
Now, I have a theory, that Brevik and crew used just a regular old, standard RNG() function and didn't do anything custom with it (just a guess)
So, you could plug the Seed into a regular old rng() call (whatever -seed you intialized with) and you could use the result as a NEW game -seed and skip the first event you did in your chain.
I don't think the exact order you are using really matters. The BER rune is just the Nth rng() call, each using the previous rng() result (or starting seed, in case of the first)
I could give you some code and show some demo's if it's an interest to you...
Hell yeah, I would be very interested in this you can message me on discord, or shoot me an email @ Gingergamingmentor@gmail.com
so interesting
Could this mean that spawning of monsters also forces RNG calls, like rolling elite monster bonuses? There must be more than one rng pool... for example rarity seems to vary even if item bases match
well they did say devs made the rng based on the casino slot mashines , they give a hint but you must know the combinations : )
@@GGMentor ill send you some d*ck pics 😘
@GGMentor Thanks for giving proper credits!
I'm the author of the video your referenced. It all started when I saw a video posted by Llama about the Mal rune farming. Then I got interested into how map seeds work up to the point where I found a dude in an obscure reddit post that said that a specific Seed on specific /playercount dropped him a Ber rune once or twice. I knew I was onto something.
So I spent the whole weekend figuring out how the chest/poppable mechanic works. Turns out it's all about how much distance you walk between the spawnpoint and the distance you make to reach the chest. I was using poppable on my way to the chest to actually have a "tool" to calculate my run/walk distance. So I knew if I tried every combination of distances, I would eventually find the "right spot" for the Ber rune on said settings. And that's what I did, with time and dedication. :P
By clicking on specific items on the ground, it helps reproducing the walk/run pattern instead of going "free-form with the mouse".
Within a specific loot table of a chest, there seems to be another underlying range for the Quality of the Items. Everything is based on the frames. I was able to get the same Yellow back to back, with the same statistics. Same for Grand Charm Skillers. However, when a Gray item drop in that said frame, it seems purely random (ethereal or not, number of sockets, etc) I might be wrong.
I'm a filthy casual player with limited time so I was never able to get Enigma without using external programs (which I can't set my mind to use). However, understanding all the game mechanics and finding a way to use everything the game has to offer and keep grinding, applying target-farming was really a nice puzzle for my mind to solve!
Diablo 2 is truly the greatest game of all time.
The real MVP right here.
No problem, but big pimpin in the kinship deserves the credit, once we found the seed code he plugged the seed code into search and found your post and brought it to my attention.
Does it work on console
Unfortunately it doesn't since you can't set the Seed in SP Console (I believe).@@Theswazzer
ok now keep pushing - you just found the peak of the iceberg. how does this convert to online and how can we find formulas to find what we want based on the environment/seed we got?
Single player drops are somewhat seeded, if you follow a certain pattern / timing of looting stuff, it will drop the same items. Same as Diablo 1, checked it out by save state before slaying a unique monster, did a countdown on every load state (1,2,3,4,5,etc) and the same items would drop everytime,
Correct and we know this by the way that people farm armor and weapon stands in a particular way by doing the same thing: taking a set order of actions and approach to the stand (including what mobs are around or not when going to pop it).
This actually makes perfect sense that that kind of stuff would apply to “RNG” of chest pops too. So cool to see that the code is slowly being cracked lol.
@@dontmugurself as no computer can generate real random numbers to my understanding, but guess real life cant eather, random is just a expression of history and physics leading up to a event, we as humans are to dump to understand, with this statement, and unlimited intelligence and computer power, we can predict the future!
@@Jauertussen1 you sound really stupid,.. maybe think before putting it on the internet
Very cool video changed my perception about how I see the game now. I did what you said and follow the steps and lo and behold I get Ber rune every single time. as I was collecting my bers I decided to go to the black marsh instead of Travincal and changed my pattern a little bit, and I popped the last super chest and I got a Gul rune! however I could not for the life of me replicate it wish I have recorded it...
I knew it! I said months ago that I was pretty sure I was always getting the same exact drops from my LK armour rack pops. It was just too consistent to be a coincidence. I was like I think the seed has a frame timer. I feel so vindicated. Thank you.
Hello Neo, you figured out matrix inside of matrix.
Def some truth to this . i have noticed the same . but unless ur recording what ya did . it would be very hard to pin point every detail .
Totally agree, I have a weapon rack that always gives me a socket suwayya for assasin. Everytime!
I made a post about timers being used in the Time lost Proto Drake during WotLK in World of Warcraft. People thought I was nuts. I was able to deduce that once that mob was killed, a countdown timer would start. Once that countdown timer elapsed, the mob could spawn again if certain criteria were met. If the criteria were not met, the countdown timer would start again. I was a map maker in original Starcraft. The engines blizz used never really utilized "true" RNG. They used a combination of triggers to spawn mobs, or for items to drop.
Yea there was an armor rack that was always dropping sazabi's when i was doing lk runs offline for runes.
Crazy. It actually worked. I didn't have tele on my barb so I skipped the skeleton right after the waypoint and that seemed to make the timing line up just fine. I get a Ber almost every time.
Nice!
does it work in LOD?
Yes
Does it work in online mode
@@wheelerwesely7707 no. you can only seed games with offline chars
-seed in target line changes the way game does randomness. You can test this by removing the -seed from target line, but enter the game with the same char (so you have the same map) and now try to replicate the results.
In speedrunning we call this active and inactive seed. Active seed drops can be easily manipulated, but with seed inactive this kind of loot manipulation is not possible.
Great explanation.
The first thing I was wondering is if this worked without using -seed. If it does not then you might as well just inject the items onto your character with software because there is very little difference.
edit: just tested it... even though the map layout in single player is the same, the breakables, chest locations, monster spawns, and racks are not. Meaning this is far less interesting than it appeared to be. By using -seed you are quite literally forcing the game to have a specific variable, and therefore can't even be considered farming legit. It's no different than using hero editor other than you have to discover where things drop and then you can find it infinitely.
So without seed active everything is random. Seems to much like cheating to me
That makes me feel better. This is clearly cheating.
I don't quite agree, because I've noticed a repetition of items found by following a certain path from weapon racks, and playing and trying many hours I still haven't found the perfect path and map to find runic claws and great claws said this means that the game even if you don't seed has pre-set packs where you can find 40%(x) items 30%(x) items etc....so each person is free to find the perfect path to that particular object or rune, it is obvious that even if you have found the perfect path it is not 100% certain that you will find that object as there are too many variables and in my opinion it is good to find the right balance
New title: Infinite level 30 rare Martial Arts+Life+Mana Amulet Exploit
This proves something even deeper about the way the drop mechanics work
😂
holy damn, that is one crazy video ginger - good work !
Holy crap... dude... you are a Mensch, a savior even. I'm 47, played D2 original back in the day, and have been loving D2R as the evolution of a great game from my youth. That said, I have full time job and dad duties, but still love smashing demons and loot farming. I only play offline (my multiplayer days of LAN parties of Counterstrike, 10 years of WoW raids, WOT shoot 'em up etc are over.) which has severely limited my ability to access some of the runeword-driven meta builds. This -seed command (which can be just plugged into the tile on your desktop, as I already do for "-enablerespec") kicks ass!!! I finally have Ber runes (and thus Jah/Cham/Zod) ON TAP. This is f-ing AMAZING. I'm working on the timing, but I've already scored a couple.... THANK. YOU.
This!
Played D2 back in ye olden days and now play D2r at 40.
Highest rune found was vex back then and mal now.
With this i can get high runes for better gear with less time spent farming while still having to "work" for it.
I know its single player, might as wel cheat gear in but i'm looking for a shortcut, not instant end game.
I dont get you. If you need Ber runes on tap just go to a character editor and put one in your box. There's no difference in offline exploiting a RNG issue and putting it in your stash. Do you want to legit yourself because it was in the game? The only question to this exploit is how controllable is it online (seed numbers, good seed numbers, seed identification).
No offense, but why haven't you just used hero editor which was basically available when d2 came out? Both ways are cheating, which is of course no problem if you want to, but the two ways (either exploiting like in the video or hero editing) don't differ.
@@CaptainMarci104 the difference is you didn't have to use a 3rd party program to give you the item...you literally had to do the foot work to figure out how to get it without using a 3rd party program
@@josephpotoczek7560 yeah sure, but that has nothing to do with what the op said. I mean both ways are well known, the op didn't have to the footwork to figure out anything.
Wow, incredible. Tested for myself, works. One thing I'd like to add, I am doing this on my sorc with only 40 FRW from Alders. Only thing I am doing different, is teleporting to the last super chest. So I am guessing skill usage does not manipulate the RNG.
Also, there is a guaranteed Shako spawn with this seed. Go to Trav > Bazaar > LK, then hit the skeleton and go right to the armor stand. Easy way to farm a Shako.
Super interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if people figured out a way to take advantage of knowing these variables online someday even though you get a fresh seed each time you load up. Granted that would not be good for the economy.
I can't seem to get the shako. I just keep getting a mummified trophy
Same :P@@dustinbaugh6263
Technically if every chest/stand has specific drop table and the RNG function is predictable once you know the seed you can probably reverse engineer all potential drops and combine that with an app that checks your seed on joining the game and lists where you can find what you are looking for
we are surrounded by good drop opportunities without knowing it
This is wild. This games been out how long and people still figuring this stuff out 😂
Diablo 2 was way ahead of it's time that's why.
rmters know it for a very long time and have all the ber methods replicable with bots in all seeds possible
the seeds stuff been known for years....but the way it work was not fully figured out back then...position char was facing was something ppl assume back then when seeding..timing as well.....but not the loading of the part of maps being involve
@@bllllood people that had retro engineered the game knew that for years I'm sure. But their secret was well kept
@@bllllood I've even read some posts about some seeds having fixed drops back in 2011 or so
I have always felt this on single player. You get that great meph map and you run him exactly the same way and I kept getting all the same drops (balrog blades in my case). Very cool.
It only works if the -seed option is used, which is probably a debugging option for developers. Don't use it and you won't have the same drops even if all your steps are identicals.
@@jnbrunetyou wont even have the same clickables or monster spawns... using -seed is the same as cheating the game... no judgement here but facts are facts.
Holy Shit! This explains a lot of patterns I have noticed while farming Lower Kurast. I tend to farm a specific pattern because of efficiency. I have noticed specific skeletons that kept dropping Pul and Fal runes. This opens up a whole new window of thought on how to farm any area to discover the location of an item. Basically, If you open up a million chests the same way, you will never find a Ber rune. Explains perfectly why I have never found a Ber or Jah rune or any high rune from a super chest in Lower Kurast.
Dunno, i've gotten seemingly random stuff when not using a seed but still think you're kinda right.
Its probably a good idea to switch from WP's befor going LK and playing with variation to really "switch things up"
Wrong
This works on unseeded single player map. Seeded runs do crazy stuff such as what is described in the video, or such as rolling the exact same runeword if you do it at the beginning of the game.
Lk superchests cannot drop Jah runes. Ber is the highest.
It’s awesome that you got so deep into this topic. I had noticed this exact thing years ago with a Shako, Harlequin from an armor rack. I didn’t figure out the exact pathway, however I was able to replicate it a few times over countless attempts. I ended up stopping as I didn’t care at that time. Every map and character loads different maps, so this isn’t able to be replicated for every character unless this specific map is loaded. Also, I’ve taken consideration that depending on what you have done prior to getting to this point changes every outcome… example is, if you killed meph already vs not. So many factors and variables without knowing how it gets to that outcome. I love it!
Subbed
Aye, I think many people suspected this over the years. It's nice to have proof
I always felt like i would see some repeated drops when running LK runs one after the other. But it wasn't ever notable enough for me to be like, " hey, this is the exact same crossbow, yari and gold drop as 15 runs ago."
Ive noticed on my SP LK runs I keep getting the same thing out of certain clickables. Armor racks always drop one of 3 things, and the weapon racks always drop a Silver-Edge axe. Its the weirdest fuckin thing.
@@andrewabrams8459 rack drops are their own thing. They will drop the same item base if you approach from the same direction.
Monsters
/summons being near and other racks you've clicked on will affect the next racks you click on as well.
@@andrewabrams8459well now you know it’s not weird lol
It's because LK super chests and all super chests have predetermined drop patterns.
Software engineer here. What you are describing at the end about the lists of variable types and them ending up consistently the same for items/monsters/resistance etc sounds alot like there is static enums or lists containing all these values and based on chunks loaded theres a index and so if that chest is set to drop 1 rune and you happen to roll the same index(based on chunks loaded) you will always get RUNE_LIST[158] or RUNE_LIST[159] which is your ith and ber rune. Generating random numbers can be resource intensive especially in the old days when this game was made so its very likely that the number generator is a shared class(singleton) and because of that that's why you end up with all these different values ending up the same. It's because the app uses that shared method to get a "random" index(based off chunks) and uses that value as the index for list of runes, monster names, resistances, etc which would explain why you get predictable results.
Nice, I remember this from the rack running in older patches more than 20 years ago. On the original CD version 1.07 patch the TC for MF was unfinished and capped at TC66 and Hell bosses didn't drop any item above TC40, TC meaning treasure chest. The only way of finding elite items was RACK RUNNING. So you had to find your way out with map seeds, game seeds, monster seeds, room seeds and player seeds in order to make a rack drop a certain base item, then run it until it drops unique or set. Not just LK but in every place there were racks with high enough TC (Nihlathak’s temple, act V tunnels, etc). One thing, MF didn't affect rack dropping so you had to reset hundreds of maps, wear as much run/walk as possible and find and click the right spots
Holy shit. I was blown away when I saw the Bers dropping, but my jaw absolutely hit the floor when you got the same rare ammy. Awesome video
I predict lots of views on this video! Nice work gmm!
You have so much self-control. I would have made about 5 infinities and several CoH’s. This is all very interesting.
This is just mind blowing and so unbelievably awe inspiring! Well done GGM!
Maybe, just maybe, this will lead to new knowledge that will allows us to figure out the Arcane Sanctuary
Works like a Grand Charm, thanks for the video dude! I was able to get it to work 3 times in a row with 25% faster run/walk.
Do you tele or
@@zilverheart I do teleport as well
I was watching the stream yesterday and didn’t get to the point you locked this down. GG man, now I need to start figuring out my seed for my sorc
after the 2 blue poision amulets u stopped using ur shiver armor skill in town just before taking the waypoint to trav . maybe thats why it changed ... This stuff changes the way ppl will think and maybe even play d2 .. truly rad!
It's most likely due to how sp mimics online. Every player action has to be registered by the server (the same interaction exists even on SP except u essentially have 0ms) and every time the server receives player info it refreshes the drop tables.
This was a well put together video and taught me something new about a game I’ve been playing for a couple decades! Great video my guy
A sit down with a member of the dev team to explain the workings of everything happening in the background would be amazing. This game is timeless and the fact that every couple months there are new things being found is crazy. I thought the Act 4 unlimited MF easter egg was the last thing that mattered, but knowing more about the complexity of the RNG would be massive for the entire community.
It's basically just understanding the variables at this point right?
Hold on hold on, what is the act 4 unlimited mf? Please explain.
@@soggdogg Llama has a video on it...basically if you stand in a certain area in act 4 the ghosts start to spell out some of the dev team's initials and you are granted 9999% (or something unfathomable) mf for a period of time in that game.
@@GGMentor Yeah, and to know exactly what a "variable" is even allow for even more theory crafting...for example - if I kill a shaman, then kill a demon archer, then kill a fallen, does that produce a particular drop that was intentional by the devs? Was their intent to create a set of circumstances that were meant to be accomplished in a single playthrough to produce a particular outcome? Or was it simply just a truly random GOOD LUCK system that people have been playing for 23 years and just figured out how to manipulate? This is a great video and I hope it creates a lot more energy from the community into trying to "crack the code."
@@rlig5932 the drops are apparently deterministic but not in the way of the devs programming "click this, kill that, open this" and a 25/20 260 griffon will drop every time. it's just about the rng function that from what we see in the video uses a common basic principle. the rng function always performs a certain algorithm on the value it is fed and spits out a new number. but this new number will again be used as the input for the next rng call. but because of the rng function always performing the same logic the same input will always result in the same output. that means it's not really random but a chain of numbers that circles through however many numbers available in the datatype used for the variable. for a 16 bit unsigned integer that would be 65536 values or the numbers 0 to 65535. if the first number is 0 it would get x then y then z.... until the last number in the chain and 65534 "random" numbers later the input of the last value would result again in 0 when the chain would start again.
usually events that use rng are implemented something like this:
for example the health pots in d2 don't always heal the same amount. pots can actually "crit" where they heal double the amount and twice as fast. the devs want this to happen 1/3 of the time while 2/3 of the pots drank should be normal heal. so the devs implement a function like this:
call rng value and divide it by 3. if there is a modulo 1 or 2 it's not divisible by 3 so it's normal. if modulo is 0 it is divisible by 3 so it's a crit. then heal double and fast. but every single of those calls advances the list of "random" numbers. if we would know what this value is and what value we need for a certain outcome we could essentially have every item and desired rolls happen when we want all the time.
what gmm found here is a specific seed that with a certain string of rng calls always results in the ber rune because he always opens the chest at the right value in the string of pseudo random values.
I had an idea about this! I figured this one by changing maps in LK (endlessly) until I could consistently get a cryptic axe from the weapon rack. Eventually I got my 4os eth cryptic axe that I’ve had my infinity in to this day!
Thanks for the knowledge! Love
Learning about the game.
It fkn worked ginger, boss level deduction from one ginger to another. You earned a sub.
Glad I could help
This video was so good, I was away from D2R for a while, now you're making me actually want to create a single player character and load it with Ber runes just to have the feeling of it lol
the same seed works for Lo rune as well, player 7, wait 15 seconds at act 3 town WP. after 15 second standing on WP go to trav, then back to LK. walk no tele. open the chests from first one closest to you. First hut on the right, then the stash next to the second, open chest right then left, next hut right then left. Lo rune. I've gotten 3 so far. You tube has a video of it. I found it interesting that its the same seed as the Ber
My god, this works 100%. i went strictly for the ber rune, with 68% ms. it still worked in the same way, as long as i figured out where i needed to hurry or slow down
I have found a way to produce the ber rune (doing the same run) and then continue in the same game to find a gul rune. If anyone is interested, I will try to post a video.
Please do
Yeah I got a GUL in LK from the bottom right corner popable hidden stash... no idea how I did it though...
@@mikep509 i got hel
I was able to farm 20 bers thanks to you
It was hard to get the timing right but combining few teleports is enough to mimicking you with only +45% movement speed(runeword stealth + magic boots)
Nice grats
Would love a more condensed or structured video on this the more you research on it.
One of the biggest jaw dropping content I've been witnessing for this game and I'm playing since 2004 gone through all the hacked, duped, bugged and bottled craps of what open/closed bnet has to offer for 2 decades. I claim myself as almost a walking D2 encyclopedia, shamefully lol, yet wow this is jaw dropping. Can't wait to go home and try on my own
It is definitely a fun one to play with, I have done four live streams so far messing with this stuff.
Happy Ber day to you, Happy ber day to you HAAPYY ber day too youuuuu
Good work! It does remind me that a few weeks ago when I was doing countess runs, it gave me sacred targe off the arm rack each time in 4 games in a row. It was interesting none of them were +Res, they all were +ed. I don't recall if they were exactly same but at least two of them should be very similar from my memory.
Racks seem less sensitive to variables so you will often see them give identical items. But your observation is correct =}
Armor and weapon wrack manipulation is much easier than other types
Hi, I've been working as a sw dev for.. some time, I will try to keep it short & simple:
fundamentally, in sw there is no way to generate a truly random number. What is used instead are PRNGs (pseudo-random number generators). You can imagine one as a mathematical formula, which given a number calculates the next one, resulting in an infinite sequence like [56, 81, 63, 31, 42, 17, ... ]. To appear random, generated values have a uniform distribution (say you generate 10K numbers between 1-10, you should end up with each of them appearing ~1000 times - the formula/mechanism inside the PRNG is designed that way).
Now, everytime a sw needs to do a "random" decision (which tetris block to send next, will you hit or miss, which NPC animation to play, what monster group to spawn, how much life to roll on an amulet : } ), it will ask the PRNG to generate the (next) value, and run a simple calculation like "if the generated number is divisible by 3 you hit, else not", for a 33% chance "random" event.
The PRNGs are usually seeded=initialized with time (number of elapsed ms/cpu ticks since some past date), so that you won't end up with the same sequence of "random" numbers (and in turn with the same sequence of "random" outcomes) everytime you restart your.. game, shuffled playlist, simulation, etc - since given the same seed, the PRNG will generate the same sequence of numbers, no matter how many of them you'll ask for - always the same numbers in the same order. Fixing the seed to a constant value is useful sometimes, say you are procedurally generating stuff, or training an AI on a simulation containing random events and it crashes sometimes™ - you'd want to log the seed number so that you can later re-run the simulation with the same seed, effectively replaying what happened, reproducing the error.
tl;dr
So here, someone discovered a seed which generates a sequence containing a "drop ber when opening chest" (say number 17) fairly early in the seq (say position 34), then used an util to read this seed value out of the d2.exe process memory, you are then fixing your game's PRNG via launch options to be always seeded/initialized to this value, then doing stuff ingame to cause the game to consume 33 numbers, so the 17 is the next "random" generated value when clicking the chest. Sometimes your "drop ber" is consumed by the game calculating if a mob should successfully hit your merc or not (assuming those two things consume from the same sequence), or by an NPC deciding which way to walk since you've spent too much time in town, sometimes you are "not there yet". Btw, there is a good chance those two identical rare amulets got the same "random" item id assigned (depends on how much effort they've put in making item ids truly unique). Soo, sorry but from my POV crippling/manipulating the game's random number generation mechanics in your favor is not legit.
"Soo, sorry but from my POV crippling/manipulating the game's random number generation mechanics in your favor is not legit."
Yes it's call an exploit
I would guess D2 has several separate rng “feeds”. I would also guess events in town don’t matter for the rng, since we noticed that time in town or which town doesn’t matter. That would make sense, because nothing random happens while sitting in town.
Regarding “item ids”, I would guess that affixes are assigned with a different RNG feed from what base is dropped, including rarity. We know about “failed set” items that result in blue items with double durability, this to me shows they’re independent rng sequences.
And regarding “not legit”, you’re right because it’s an exploit, but to me learning about the inner mechanisms and development choices is far more stimulating and interesting than “omg i got a ber rune after 10 bajillion runs of LK” when it’s all deterministic at its core anyway
@@Rievax17 the entire problem here is that the seed pool is fixed. if you limit the number of events that consume it (ie, avoid fighting monsters and have a tight SK layout) you increase the chance of consuming the Nth pool number consistently and that value leads to a ber rune through the pachinko cascade.
@GGMentor the reason you sometimes obtain amn/ort is because your first roll selects a rune as with ber but the subsequent roll didn't eat the Mth pool value. the initial actions of clicking other items is just shifting the index.
so this seed has at least an RNG pool of "A B C D E F [G] H I [J]" - A is consumed by travincal load, B by first click, etc. this is also why walking is preferred to avoid consumption of H/I. movement of grid position and other factors will consume from the RNG pool. once you figure those out you can perform actions to specifically skip specific indices and you have your repeatable pattern.
is this cheating? no. the entire point of the seed parameter was to test this specifically in unit tests to verify the loot cascade design was working. congrats on peeking behind the curtain.
if you really want to pile ok load a modified game table where ber runes replace bolts and run a cow level and watch the popcorn spray. its just another cli parameter too so how can that be called exploiting. single player is just there for testing anyhow. don't take it so seriously. glhf
@@kehlarn6478 I agree with “don’t take it so seriously”, however I’m not sure the RNG algorithm is as simple as “n RNG pachinko cascades produces a ber rune”. Theres clearly nuances here related to directionality/modifiers related to certain actions. I suspect different actions result in different “modifiers” to the mutated seed. For example, the starting seed is 22556745. An RNG event happens, which triggers a call to the rng function, producing the new seed of 17 (number doesn’t matter, it’s arbitrary). But, since that event was “go to the 9th waypoint” or trav, the function will do a modification of the 17, say, %9, giving the new seed as 8 as opposed to 17. These small modifications to the RNG function result in drastically different results in the ultimate lookup table for the super chests, and that’s why the directionality and order of specific events matters. Otherwise, you could simply do n rng lookups and guarantee a ber rune out of that particular superchest
@@Rievax17 first a clarification of terms. a seed is the initial input to srand() to select the RNG pool. the Nth term of said pool is obtained via calling rand() N times. you do not seed more than once lest you break the point of a fixed seed.
the video itself is proving that if you start with a specific seed and burn off unwanted N entries the superchest will consume the one you want and you get a ber. that's the entire point of the video. confirming the order of events to burn unwanted selections.
there are specific events in the d2 engine that consume elements of the random pool. that's why i said not interacting with monsters, casting, only walking to reduce the number of them consumed is a requirement here.
all this is well known and programs exist to reveal the seed and more importantly the current next rng value. the online RNG algorithm is slightly modified but the same premise holds.
the loot cascade I refer to is actually how loot is selected within the game files. a given row is selected and has distribution values of what to yield. the next roll selects a column within that row. if the result is another loot class, repeat until you get a final item. "aiming" rng down this table has been done and is a basic problem when you play with the rarity values when making your own mods
This is so much fun! I just started playing D2R for like a month and I play offline. I was thinking that I will never able to find Ber rune for Enigma. I can't even beat HELL yet. Anyway I think I will try to push it to act III and try this method. Took me like 20 tries to get the feel. Must set game to /players8; you can use teleport but as you said, cant be too early nor too late. I got 10 Ber runes in next 16 runs. Thank you for sharing.
niiice!!
Some one found the BER seed! I was able to replicate this without hitting the skeleton, corpse, or armor rack. I always have to hit the stash, weapon rack and super chest first before going to the second super chest.. Also you have to take the path of the skeleton, corpse, armor rack or the stash will spawn in a different place. Then i tried just hitting the Stash and not the weapon rack then hit the super chest. and was able to get the BER to drop. After that i tried just popping the stash and didn't open the super chest, just ran into the corner of the hut to simulate the timing and again i was able to get the BER to drop. IT seems that stash by the hut is the factor. Try it yourself. Great find, now have have 20 some (cheater) BERs to throw on the ground.
Walk speed?
GGM!!!!
You have outdone yourself this time. I will be showing my appreciation immediately! Now if only we could find a similar process for slightly lower runes like Gul or Vex. I personally think that would be worth a big fat Patreon.😁
Guess what, I just found gul. I went the ber route (but was too fast), then started opening the rest of super chests. Gul dropped from the last one, which is top right in the hut next to the waypoint.
Edit: found 3 guls, one of them was found with ber.
@@MrRubbermousescrew you guys, I'm going home
I didn't know about this mechanic, but last week I found 2 Sur in a span of half an hour and the next day again 2 Sur in about 15 minutes (offline of course). Seems like I have a Sur map and now only need to try to find out what exactly I did on these occasions.
Do you play at around the same time? I think the rng seed is determined when you start the game
Post your seed code and let others test it
@@nicholasconner7630 How can I find out my seed code?
Found it: -seed 1371615818
Players 7, map has two fires, first just above to the waypoint and the other just behind in the same direction. Happy Sur-hunting!
@@by_the_stoneuse program like in this vid
In 1.07. rack runs are pretty popular. I've looted Tal's armour and Shako's many times. The rack/chest loot table was influenced by events in the game one time seeds but also whether you conjured a hydra under a rack. Basically the Loot table increased (found my second Tals Armor this way). I've also noticed that if I pull more monsters, the map seed also changes (presumably because another event has been triggered - Monater pull). Single player of course, this is the only way to reconstruct a game seed again
Confirmed this works perfectly. I was discouraged to learn that the game isn't actually random on the drops, then I thought this probably only applies to LK runs because it's common knowledge that these super chests have specific drop tables. Kudos to you for unlocking this specific ber drop combo.
All super chests have specific drop tables, not just LK. LK is just more convenient. In fact, I’m pretty sure all drop tables are specific and deterministic, it’s just that monsters and normal chests have a much larger pool to pull from compared to the relatively limited set of around 18000 on super chests (or something of that order). Getting a consistent result on a monster drop would be much harder tho, but if you do the exact same thing every time to frame perfection you could get the same results when starting with the same seed
All computers do is calculate numbers and do different things as a result of those calculations. This means anything happening randomly via a computer is never truly random. Computer programs and instructions are always deterministic.
@@Rievax17monster drops are random other than what each item base exists on that monster's drop table. Some monsters like wraiths have little to nothing in the drop tables so they drop rings, charms, and runes a lot. This is also why at the start of act 1 normal you seem to get a lot of rings jewels and charms
it works because forcing a -seed is making the games rng predetermined, this does not work without using -seed. it's interesting but in the end you are essentially forcing the game to play a certain way and therefore you are just cheating.
@@witheringhs7766 did they fix it it dont work for me
Okay .. okay okay now THIS is one of THE MOST interesting AND addictive D2 vids I have EVER seen!
Semi-important side note: When I fail (being too fast I am guessing) I run to the northwestern superchest hut and either one of those 2 chests have dropped me a Gul rune 4 times over the past hour! so yes there is def something about those variables that impact our drop chances :-)))) awesome sauce!
nice glad your having fun with this little trick.
the interesting thing about this is you can establish your own patterns like the gul rune, or others that you might devise. Don't just stick to my pattern, mess around and see what you can get on your own and then see if you can repeat it.
Man i once dropped 15 OHM runes in 700 hell Andy runs and could never figure out how they kept dropping it must have been some sequence like this
My experience was trial and error even with GGM's advice here. It can be done on a non sorceress which is nice since I don't have one high enough. I did it with my Javizon with a teleportation staff. Was first trying it without setting the players count to 7 since that wasn't part of the given set up. Didn't work. Though that might also be because I actually had over 80% run walk with the Hustle giving me 65% so I had to take some stuff off. Then it all came down to timing. I was still too fast a lot, got the 122 drops or the hatchet instead of the mithril point. But even getting the MP I'd get down to the target chest too soon.
I was becoming convinced that you had to take some damage from something to make this work. All in all, after many times trying to get the timing right, I got 6 Bers before calling it a night. I can now make an Infinity!...well once I find a good base. Anyone got a trick for that?! lol (I know, I know...back to Cows/Pit/CS....)
Thank you for all the gaming news, tips and tricks and all of that stuff, GGM!
Seed exploiting in single player I did that back in the days way before D2R as well. This has been known and probably forgotten for at least a decade.
exquisite research...thank you...peace from berlin...
It’s called rack and chest seeding. There are numbers referred to as seeds that remain the same as long as the situation and layout remains the same. You must approach the tiles from the same side and also the number of monsters in the area affect the drops. You can alter the drops by placing Hydras near the rack in same place same number every time and you can change what consistently drops. I have used this tactic to rack perfect 15ed max resistance sacred targe before. Also 1/1000 is a unique so you can target specific uniques this way to complete your holy grail ;)
I play console tho often times. If it’s single player you can literally save your char file to a thumb drive or the cloud and then move items to shared stash and reload your char file and dupe all your items. Using this you can dupe mid or low runes and then cube them up to get all runes/rune words in the whole game
Your welcome peeps :)
What's the point of playing then? Why not just make a hero editor character.
@@AGHathaway I don’t play offline usually, rn im playin hardcore classic ladder - reset is tomorrow!! I have played offline before for fun so I can test builds mostly. You still can’t generate a custom item out of thin air so you still have to find items to begin with.
Also you could say that about anything. People want the stronger items faster in every game or situation in society in the world. People want more, faster. Way she goes.
Why get infinite Ber runes to begin with then also. Should direct your comment at the overall purpose of the video.
Edit: also you can’t use hero editor on console so there’s that too
So, if you kill any monster, will it affect the loot table? Does not killing them lead to better drops?
@@mwa5704 it’s all about consistency. If a different number of monsters appear or don’t appear then the resulting item from the rack will change. I believe if the monsters entered the tile and then you killed them and tried to rack as if no monsters are there it won’t result in the same item because the racks result is more so determined off if x amount of monsters were in that tile. This is why you can modify the resulting item by consistently placing hydras and the same exact number of hydras in the same position. Cheers
Ps. Check out my short I made ages ago on how to bug drognan outside of town for useful shopping for enchant staves etc. :)
@@PixelPerspectives222 in your drognan bug short this is specifically working for ONLINE games since the game is preserved server-side?
That gave me idea that theoretically this knowledge could be used to make frame perfect tool assisted speedrun in Diablo 2 single player.
Just a little help to everyone after playing around with this. There seems to be some type of system based variability that may require you to go faster or slower than what you see in the video. My run has to be much quicker than his, like nearly 5 seconds faster to get the ber rune. I'm using 95 frw and I may have to put in a teleport after hitting the first super chest if things feel to slow. My weapon rack always produces a hatchet, so if you're seeing that you need to speed it up. If you get an overseer skull or a shamshir from the chest you went too slow. Amn rune is too fast, ith rune too slow.
Also, it doesn't matter what you do in town. You can talk to ormus, sit around for 5 minutes in the chest, etc. What matters is the moment you enter lower kurast. That's when the timer starts.
hmmm i always have a hatchet even with 110 frw and if i tp all the time and i get a lum if im fast and pul if slow i think. sometimes a shael also...no ber tho
Ok i got my first Ber! 135% run speed. The amn and skull helped me a lot thanks! i had to teleport one time after 1 super chest to speed up
@@freeky8847 No problem! Glad I could help. I was confused for such a long time trying to follow his method's timing. I think computer hardware might cause more things to load on faster computers and I've got a beefy PC so that might be why we have to move faster.
Is it timing OR is it more related to the poppables + monsters that are spawned in the game and that would explain the timing not mattering at certain points
@@computerz009 The timing doesn't matter only when you're in town. The monsters that spawn are actually the same every time if you do the same actions and follow a similar time. So items that are dropped, monsters spawned, all of it is not based on probability but precise actions and timings. It's a very interesting system.
That's nuts! Preobably the most impressive D2 vid I've seen!
Wait til you see some of the other testing, we uncover a lot of neat things and useful to boot over the course of several Livestreams
@@GGMentor Cool, I'm already seeing D2 in a whole different way...
@@GGMentor I thought I'd have to wait till lvl 85 for HR drops but was working at lvl 81 no problem. My other HRs are online so any tips on how to get Pul, um, Lo etc would be amazing!
Please not clickbait, please not clickbait...
It is kinda because its completely pointless because its single player.
@@catniumme who plays in single player only: LOL I have no such weaknesses
@@catnium
There are still a lot of people who play single player...
@@catnium I don't feel like it's completely useless for online either.
It demonstrates clearly how variables change the result.
And for instance in Season 6 when you do your LK farms you might add a ritual to deliberately change the results like. Going to trav waypoint first than lower kurast.
Or clicking on every clickable nearby before you click on the super chests.
its useless for console cause you cant select a seed. map seed is not the same as game seed.
Awesome Video. I didn''t know that D2 actually works like that.
Everyone familliar with Speedrunning (especially Pokémon gen1) knows about this kind of RNG manipulation. Cool to see, that this stuff works in other games too😄
Imo, exploiting this is equivalent to cheating. I think this crosses the "cheese" threshold.
Yea im surprised that people are ok with this. At that point is it really a self accomplished find? Just edit a ber rune in at that point. I mean its a good learning tool for understanding some of how the game works but once you start to set seeds, you already take out some of the point of the game. This takes that step even further.
So I think it's just events' based. Every event creates a new preloaded set for the next event. "next chest in THIS area (also an event) will give you Y". Basically, all the gear you can find is sent to you based on the information you provide the isp: clvl, mf and the monster's level. Basically, if you can tell us what constitutes an "event" in D2 from your tests, we'd have a greater understanding of how d2 is made! Love the vid. I think changing area, killing monsters (every different type), opening chests/clickables, resplendent chests etc... all constitute preloaded sets. I do think the game generates new loot based on the next events... let us know your findings!
Well............ there goes my evening tonight lol. Very interesting
This explains how I was getting Flawless Amethysts, repeatedly, when I found a house with a superchest on it a short distance from a Black Marsh Waypoint. That was a nice night, many caster runes were made.
BerBerian. Make it happen GGM.
HE MUST BE CREATED
I wanted to run a berbarian with 2 jewelers phase blades of amp damage, with 3-4 bers each depending on the rest of the gear.
This video blew my mind. It's so interesting and I would watch more testing of the variables!
So if my map doesn’t match yours do i just need to re roll it by going to NM mode and back into hell until it matches what your map shows?
if you enter the seed number properly you will get the same map
@duanek6051 by any chance we can join and rejoin until we get same seed code in online ?
@@AwesomeVideosReddit far more efficient would be to use that time to mf and get good items and runes
1.5 years casual on single player. Only had 1 ber. Now I have two enigmas and 10 bers in the bank. Thank you. Still need to farm the ohms and Lo’s
@@AboveEmAllProductionnot everyone is gay brother…
🤔 Now how does a guy do this on console???
Anyone knows?
I’m gonna try tonight. I’ll load map offline on ps5 until I get the same map layout. Will update tomorrow 🙃
@@stevesanderson5885 but how do you download the map offline in PS5?
@@stevesanderson5885waiting diligently for an update.
@@stevesanderson5885 so? 😅
It’s a good thing you’re constantly recording. Hopefully you do some follow ups with other “recipes/combinations” for unlocking other runes, Great Charms, Small Charms, specific gear etc
Hello GGM congratz for this new content! I tried the method and something interesting happened.
Following the pattern, there is no mithril point that comes out of the rack but a hatchet. No matters if I speed up or slow down, always the hatchet. BUT, i kept trying different paces and... Amn Rune out of the chest, then an Ith, and couples tries later, the Ber Rune ! That would suggest that the time spent between the rack and the chest is also key, regardless of what drops from the rack.Thought it was worth mentioning to add up to this very interesting topic. Cheers 🥂
I had the hatchet for a long time until I refined my run and got.faster.
You can still get the ber rune with the hatchet but it's close to failing
My computer is pretty old at this point (built in 2015) and one thing I noticed was that your game loading speed is noticeably quicker than mine for map spawning. I've also been getting the hatchet but I'm now getting a consistent Ber if I walk the first half, pop the hatchet and chest, and then tele to the ber chest from the middle left of the fire pit area. Just thought this was cool and worth passing on. Hatchet looks like its probably evidence of being behind when the wep rack/ chest are popped, but the tele speed is catching me back up. (I'm at 95% FRW and 63%FCR break). Idk that was my thought at least, just wanted to pass it on @@GGMentor
@@jaketozer7841 loading speed has to do something. My are pretty quick though but not as GGM
I have hatchet every time, but got consistent ber runes. It seems for me like timing between two superchests is the key here.
I've been doing lower k runs and got identical amulets recently. Didn't think anything at the time, but now I feel wielded out lol. Crazy.
Amazing. I always "knew/assumed" this is the way Diablo 2 loot systems worked but had absolutely nothing to go off of but my own experience along with basic knowledge of RNG systems. Hell yes and thank you for providing the content!
Wow, the mechanics are still being unveiled lo these many years later! Dang I still remember buying LoD day it came out, who knew I'd still be learning about it 20+ years later
This is what happens when you make a good game that sells it self, rather than loot boxes.
Thx, i now have a surplus of Ith runes... still keeping at it and it seems to count from opening chests, no particular order here but 6 and than the "ber" ith for me chest always drops. Not complaining in the least because this testing got me a 40%ed jewel. gonna keep trying tho =)
Ith means your close, trying adding more run walk speed 70% seems to be the key
@@GGMentor yea i went for the baba for few runs due to natural speed but i had to stop for a while. did copy exactly same drops tho,
Overall its also makes to easy and not enjoyable in my opinion . I did few hundred Lk runs and result is unbeliable > 1 x ber 2 x sur 1 x Lo and bunch of mid runes that im not even mentioning . 10 max 75 ar gc ( 21 lvl ) follows with juicy skillers plus OP bases ( 3 ls 3 mind blast 1 shadow warrior feral claws is worth several bers xD ) This video is Golden Grouse indeed as long as you can catch that specific area . Anyway Well done dude and thanks for great content .
thanks mate! I did it with my paladin, players 7, arround 70 run/wal with the aura, and 300 magic find, it works quite well for me :D
Just so you know magic find doesn’t affect rune drops
You're on to something, I've always wondered why certain uniques drop more in certain high lvl areas, like finding a diadem or corana in the pits, certain actions/circumstances are being met and the item drops.
Players do this unknowingly thinking the drops are random, there's a pattern to the variables.
I mean this only really works for SP and if ur gonna do this you might as well hero edit.
Thank you for this friend. If you play around, there is a way of getting Ber then a Gul. You have to get the Ber, buff your sorc, tele left to open both boxes, then tele right to the 2 unopened ones. If the timing is right I've gotten 3 Ber 3 Gul in 10 min. Again, many thanks. I played SP for a year, found 1 Ber rune. This makes it much funner, where I don't have to hero-edit. Cheers man
To clarify, the first hooch you enter is tent 1 on the right, you skip tent 2 going for tent 3, ignoring tent 4. What I'm saying do your normal thing, but then buff up and hit tent for, then tele to tend 2 (which you also skipped). Found a bunch of Guls on this run! Test it out brother
I'm surprised you spent time offline for the stream on this. I was gaming so much I didn't even think about YT.
I wish i had of known this a year ago when i done 3000 lk runs for my infinity , enigma etc. Although i dont play single player anymore , this is a fantastic find for players still playing or future players. I'll never enter lk again unless I'm quickly running through when levelling a new character.
Why? This is the same as cheating.
Having "predetermine" drops is almost always true in games. It would be very rare to find a game that does random drop calculation on the fly. This is why we have loading screens. The fact that there is a time during the game play where the drops are calculated and assigned to objects does not make them less randomly generated than if they are calculated on the fly. All it does is shift your perception of "random" because you are either adding or removing the time dimension. Also all of this is based off of your 9 digit seed code, which when you play the game "normally" also changes frequently.
Damn interesting video tough!
The way you talk about events and results, you definitely sound like the architect from The Matrix.
Hah!
Damn i have seen alot of clear screens on youtube gaming videos but yours is amazing!
This explains why I always felt my luck was so terrible in this game. I had what I thought was a perfect lower kurast map with both capsites and super chests right next to the waypoint and never rfound a thing doing it. But the wierd part was an armor stand in the building to the right that always dropped an assasin claw or cestus type weapon, every single time. I usualy find a pattern of doing things and repeat it. Ever since terror zones started, ive completely stopped doing mephisto because he has dropped absolute garbage 100% of the time. But again, im repeating a very quick process of teleporting to him and then moat tricking him. If he was droping good stuff, it sounds like he would keep doing it. But since it was garbage, it will keep being garbage cuz of these variable issues not being truly random, and the things Im doing are clearly pulling from a very poor drop table. So its more about figuring out a good pattern than repeating something that might be very bad over and over
No it doesn't. Seed affects drops but you can play the game with the seed inactive and still eventually find a ber. Just turn off the seed and you will keep the same map
Damn that's interesting.
I did some research and I have found a post from 2008 that talks about this.
It wouldn't suprise me if some people figured out how the number generator works with the map seed and were able to apply it to multiplayer.
You perfected the technique then? Well done, sir!
To the people thinking this is useful: SEED is not = Map Seed.
When you go into a offline game you will have the same map layout yes.. however the seed is different every time. So this is only useful if you are using the -seed launch command.
b...bu..but i get the same drops from armor racks and weapon racks all the time without -seed command so it must be true or useful?? well no, cause weapon racks and armor racks works differently. and yes you can somewhat manipulate them to drop a specific thing (item base not which rarity)if u have the same map layout over and over. however their drops are not calculated the same as chest and monsters.
The reason this works that almost nothing uses true RNGs, but rather pseudo RNGs which (when made well) look from the outside look like random numbers but are in reality deterministic functions that lead to the same results every time. One reason is that PRNGs are way faster then true RNGs (at least a factor of 1000 if not more) so basically everything that is not completely reliant to have true random numbers (for example crypto) rather uses a form of PRNGs. Also CPUs back then when Diablo 2 launched didn´t support the creation of true random numbers, so you had to get creative if you actually wanted to create a true RNG. And all you do is basically making sure that the PRNG is exactly at the same state before you click the chest, so you get your desired "random" number when opening the chest.
Yup
Yeah, it’s just about finding the events that matter to the rng function. Does the specifics matter or is every event treated the same (eg loading a waypoint vs looting a corpse)
@@Rievax17 Most likely they have a single PRNG function used by everything in the game that needs a random number. The seed is basically the starting position of this function, and each use of the function would increase this by one. For your desired result you need the seed + number of function calls lead to the needed "random" number. There are certainly many types of actions that could lead to the desired results, but it is hard to tell from the outside how many RNG-Calls an action you do in the game will make.
@@playerone6434 I’m not sure that explains the directionality of rng events tho, see armor and weapon racks
@@Rievax17 Most likely the results von an RNG event trigger even more RNG events. Therefore if you slightly change the order of events you get different results from a different order from klicking the same armor rack. One click may generate 10 RNG events, another 12, and you only need a difference of 1 for a different outcome on the superchest
Often times when I get a cool item like a good unique item, I get excited and do the exact same thing I did in a new game and I find it interesting that I get the same good unique item again from the same source.
I often joke that I’m about to get another one soon after because of how often it seems to happen.
Interesting 🤔
You will also get the lo rune here by going wp to either kurast bazaar or upper kurast first then lower kurast in player 7 doing the same pattern except there is no stash in the middle hut but just directly open the armor rack and supper chest and going to the supee chest where ber runes but drops lo rune instead 😊
Got a Ber rune on my 4th attempt. Thanks. So much of my life was spent opening LK chests.
I mean you just cheated with extra steps. Finding this exact seed on your own by resetting difficulty would take longer than finding a ber rune. If you're gonna do this then just hero edit in a ber lol
Crazy man. Insane someone somehow figured this out.
Awesome finding! Now need to find how to drop Tyrael's Might :)
Best opening of a video ever! LMAO
I love the deep dive thank you.
IDK why, but with my assassin it just worked when I followed the steps in the speed of light. 100%+ of run speed, and teleported as much as I could. that was the most consistent way for me.
Nice! Glad you figured it out
I can't believe this. Been playing since I was little, never found higher than a Lo rune. Just got my first Ber from this. I used a Paladin with 53% FRW (Vigor and 20% boots). No teleport. So cool
That's crazy thanks for the video!
best video ever on diablo 2
it's magic RNG
The next step would be for some kind of reader to be invented and calculate where and which item gets dropped.
Nice video!
Cheers!
I had something like this when I was farming LK and I kept on getting a thresher on this one weapon rack. I hit it about 100 times and a number of the threshers turned out to be ethereal.
You don't need a seeded SP game to do that. The RNG is like that, if you have the same map from being SP without the -seed command you get the same base from the rack every time you do a certain list of steps and approach it from a certain direction. Seed map would do it so that you'll get the very same item id on that weapon rack. I used to have an unseeded SP map on one of my sorcs that would drop Sacred Targe from an armor stand any time i approached it from a particular direction.
This explains why I kept finding Lo runes in the same spot in a lower kurast. I just never made the connection. I had a good map for LK and every now and then I would do Trav run in between. I found like 8 Lo's in a matter of an hour. Thought I was super lucky. But i must have been just mindlessly and unknowingly doing the same thing over and over with a slight variation. Will be paying attention to this from now on. It also would explain why ladder maps are always random. Much harder to abuse.
lol boy had a Lo Rune farm and didn't realize it
While farming without a set seed i got a vex rune from a chest. Did the exact same thing for a couple of runs but got different drops from the same chest.
Not sure what this means.
@Ginger Gaming Mentor This is a historically important youtube video. Thank you for this important diablo 2 share. This is big. Someone call Asmongold and inform Elon Musk... this is fire!!!