I think its one layer deeper. The brainrot that infest libertarians is just that they think oppression can only come from direct threats of violence and that conditions and social systems cant create coercive conditions
This guy: 1. Was a former right wing economist 2. Former police officer 3. From Florida 4. Is a Libertarian There it is. The worst possible political combination imaginable.
I swear, while he was listing his credentials, (and you forgot corporate lobbyist, btw,) I was like "Oh, God, this man should not be in charge of managing a McDonald's, much less America."
Same response to people who say 'My pronouns are zhe zher" (im not a conservative) EDIT: HOLY SHIT UA-cam DELETED MY REPLY THAT I UPDATED I will post the full comment chain here hopefully this comment will not be deleted. @vidyagaems4063 okay lil bro I must be the most pro communist conservative to ever grace this Earth. EDIT: I have to add to my original comment. No matter how many times I reply either youtube or this channel shadowbans my comments. I replied to this guy @Nerobyrne when he posted and no one sees it at all ... crazy. I see my comment but if I refresh or go to a private tab it's just fucking gone.Anyways I'm not a reactionary tankie sorry if i dont fit into your predefined category. Pushing me into a box doesn't invalidate my opinion. If you can write me off as a group you dislike it makes it easy for you not to critically engage in my disagreement / opinion. This psychology is why people/groups who are close politically often end up fighting or clashing more then groups that are completely politically different . The situation with Russia and Ukraine is pretty straightforward. Russia is acting on its imperialist mission to engage in the Russification of eastern (eventually all of) Ukraine and this dates back to the 1800s when Russia killed a lot of natives (especially in Crimea) and shipped in a bunch of Russian speaking people to occupy eastern Ukraine. Nowadays, Russia has nukes and gets to bully its neighbors? Fuck that. Helping Ukraine is a just cause to ensure that the precedent of a nuclear power ground invading a sovereign country because they dont like their elected president is not a thing. Many lead convos with pronouns and neopronouns are brainrot. I was summoned back here cuz of @rjald4910 thank you lol. I replied to him but no 1 sees it.
This is called "Anti Politics". It's when elites try to spread the idea that all kinds of politics or government action are bad, to disenfranchise the opposition.
@@xx_isabel_the_wolf_xx3869 You forgot '...and laugh all the way to the bank'. Can't forget all those 'great' corporate donors we can't currently get rid of no matter how much we might want to... Edit: This was meant for a different reply section but it actually works here too so I'ma leave it
@@fjnordthedwarf4004 this is why i think politicians should just wear nascar style jackets with every corporate sponsor stitched into it so we know who they're paid by
Vaush: I don’t like fascists pretending to be libertarians, they believe this. Opponent: But I believe those things? Yeah, this is going to be another classic debate.
I'd consider myself fairly well off thankfully not through excessively exploitative means, and I sh!t you not, I can't count the amount of times I hear this take when you question right wing economics and there no poor people around.
Vaush: *gives extended explanation in defense of his point using historical precedent and a clear ethics framework.* This guy: ............wow you're just so wrong about everything, I can't even explain how.
"so you're saying our whole entire economic system is built on coercion???? **laughs* " Yes doofus, because unless you are born into obscene wealth you have to get a job to survive.
He did this at the 1:00:00 mark and I genuinely thought the call was about to end over it, and then saw there was still another hour and a half. This is gonna be msierable
These people think guilded age economics were actually great because line go up and that the poor Rockefellers of the world have it at all odds against them
Seriously. I know he isn't really expecting to be elected to any kind of office, but even amongst the Libertarian party, you have to be, you know, not a complete douche.
He constantly laughed at what Vaush was saying and the first time Vaush laughed at ONE of his idiotic takes he got triggered. He also talked over Vaush constantly. This guy is a 🤡.
Well, he had to protect property laws in some way. An ancap libertarian being a conservative economist, banker and a cop makes great sense really. A monopoly of violence is what right wing libertarians wants only for enforcing property "right".
Australia has a minimum wage of like 18 dollars. Australia hasn't collapsed. Europe: same. This makes libertarians question their entire moronic world view, right?
U.S Libertarians don't know the rest of the world exists...scratch that I'm pretty sure most conservatives in the U.S have no clue how anywhere else in the world works. pretty sure they think you guys are just bangin rocks together over there while the Kangaroos watch
To hear him try to take the high road every time he was cornered on a point and divert the conversation, especially at the end, after he used just as many insults and condescension as Vaush was so frustrating. He displays no self awareness though I suspect that deep down he knows exactly what he's doing when he avoids responding to those arguments. Edit: omg also I just rewatched it and after the beginning he was condescending or insulting in nearly every response he gave. In one particular case Vaush kept politely trying to pull him back on topic to address why undocumented immigrants make less than minimum wage like 8 times until Vaush finally accuses him of not caring about poor people. Then the cop has the gall to say Vaush is being too uncivil. 🙄
Lol right 😂 As soon as they get called out for their ideologies leading to harm and saying they are bad people for believing the things they believe, suddenly it's all about civility politics and how people are too mean.
That 3 second stun after pointing out illegal immigrants are in an unregulated market and that's what he wants for everyone was priceless. Actually had the breath knocked out of him
It's also a ridiculous argument. Illegal immigrants are coerced by the state through threat of deportation. If the normal labor market were as deregulated that wouldn't be the case
@@0witw047 Yeah, then all workers could be coerced by employers and landlords with the threat of starvation and exposure. Much more humane and self-limiting.
Man, I just have to say, Vaush is the best. He gets a libertarian presidential candidate on stream with him and IMMEDIATELY goes right for the throat with the civil rights act. Vaush's ability to cut through BS and talk about what actually matters is always so appreciated.
I don't know if Vaush knew he was affiliated with the Mises Institute but the way he brought them up, described them as bad faith fascists masquerading as libertarians and used the civil/state's rights example to reinforce that was great. Dude immediately announced his affiliation with the Mises Institute, then proved Vaush right by arguing against the civil rights act. He lost every last fragment of credibility before the debate even started.
It's also a threat to mental and physical health...I don't know how Vaush and Sam Seder haven't gotten brain aneurysms debating these sycophants. It's not just the sheer cognitive dissonance. It's also the fact that they can't/refuse to follow any logic for more than 30 seconds. They quibble over meaningless differences, say something implicitly or otherwise then spend the next 15 mins arguing against what they just said or deny they said it, have 100% inconsistent explanations for the dozens of examples of why their philosophy has never worked, and generally just jump around points because any digging into their theories immediately exposes its ridiculousness. They prefer to stay in the abstract because reality is too inconvenient for them and their dogma. There is literally no difference between an evangelical religious nut and a libertarian. Actually, a religious nut is more rational because you can't disprove the existence of a God but you can 100% disprove the fallacy that is libertarianism. And it isn't hard to either.
I bet if you asked him in private, he'd give you some long-winded answer about how a 14 year old can do math better than most adults, so we should let THEM decide. Something that sounds like he's logically discussing the situation, but in the end, is just spouting excuses to lower AOC.
They act like they understand how our kinda democratic US federal government is bad because how authoritarian it can be (which ironically is because of mega wealthy capitalist bribery), but then they unabashedly advocate for extremely brutal authoritarian power structures to replace it while acting completely oblivious to them being authoritarian and clearly objectively worse
"We don't need a government guys... we just need some sort of semi- permanent committee... uhhhh, better delegate it some authority to enforce contracts... uhhh, better delegate it some authority because my neighbors upstream run a tannery... etc etc "
@@bananian Ah, but you see, this guy preempted that argument by saying he actually doesn't want the state government to do civil rights protections either
Yeah plus he kept laughing for all the debate at Vaush's argumentations then he took offence at being laughed at back. What an incredible entiteled obtuse smug tool this one
@@amandasmithifno normal person without severe anger issues, a superiority complex, or an exceptionally small penis would react like that. Which, seeing as he’s a former cop, would likely be all three in this case.
The fact that he can't see the problem with "low wage jobs" and puts no value in the labor done by "low wage" employees says all you need to know. And his smugness is just annoying.
I think a large part of the reason he has such a hard time recognizing that paying workers less than minimum wage would be unethical is because he literally believes he is better than them. Trash people deserve trash wages in his eyes
This guy managed to not just get a BINGO, but expertly filed in *every single square* on a BINGO card titled "How to piss off the current generation of potential voters"
"Competition will raise wages for workers!" "Ok, these business are competing fiercely and the wages of the workers are as low as they can legally get away with" "Well, they need competition" "But they are competing" "They need competition. Competition will raise wagers for workers!" This really felt like a conversation with a literal NPC.
“If they didn’t have a minimum wage, their wages would actually be lower” “Oh, so minimum wage regulation increased these workers’ wages?” “No, competition did.” *insert Patrick’s wallet ad nauseum.”
The problem is the workers not competing. Unless they engage in collective bargaining (a fundamental tool of capitalism that must be utilized to maintain the balance of power between employer and employee). There is no competition. The workers have to compete, but the businesses don't.
Libertarians took an L somewhere around the 10 minute mark when Vaush was like "hey, if we deregulate everything what stops southern states from just instantly rolling back civil liberties in the way right-wing politicians always say they want to and are constantly trying to disingenuously pass in these states through every available means?" and our guest friend just said "oh you really think someone would do that? I mean, do you really want the government FORCING the NATURE OF YOUR RELATIONSHIPS on you?" It's half "you really think someone would do that? just go on the internet and lie?", and half the Professor Flowers thing where you won't SAY that you're enabling harmful policies, just that people should be completely free to do WHATEVER THEY FEEL LIKE, and if that HAPPENS to be even worse working conditions and social conditions when companies and right-wing policymakers get their way, OH WELL I GUESS IT CANT BE HELPED. FUUUUUUUUCK this guy. I'll probably watch the rest of the debate because it's still useful to see how to rhetorically debunk/debate these people, but holy shit there's a 0% chance I'd ever vote Libertarian. Not only is it a waste in a FPTP voting structure, but there's just no sociopolitical or philosophic argument for this line of thinking leading to good outcomes.
Not saying I agree with it, but the truly libertarian position would to have the federal government reign in the power of state and local governments to make policy on this subject.
The is one of the biggest issues with libertarianism and its holy 'free market.' Slavery and exploitation aren't just some rare exceptions, they are literally logical consequences that would become almost universal (again).
As a former right-libertarian, now left-libertarian I think that most right-libertarians are just lefties with brainworms, they hold basically the same values but are obsessed with the free market for some reason
I think it's literally a form of sociopathy with their end goal being profit maximization rather than human wellbeing. The problem with that as we see over and over in history is, that a logical consequence of profit maximization is exploitation, slavery, serfdom, or near-slavery conditions, and of course, massive inequality. This is why we see him pretending to care yet he has no ideological basis since his ideology doesn't care.
I realize logically that this man is more educated and experienced than Vaush, and I'm biased towards Vaush's ideas. So I sure wish this libertarian guy had actually shown his education and supported his ideas instead of just saying "Nananana, I'm more educated so I'm right." I don't care if you have ten PhDs, that's not the way to get me on your side.
I can see it now. This guy leading the masses by bragging about his resume, careers, and smug remarks. Removing the minimum wage will rile up the working people, and he will be the avantegard.
Every single right wing professional is like this. This clown was handed his Economics degree, same as he was handed everything else. When actually asked to do something aside parroting talking points handed to him by paymasters he shuts TF down
The fact that it took 1 hour for this human being to recognize the fact of coersion in the very system he supposedly studied, makes me feel like he should consider suing his place of education.
Vaush literally got this guy to admit that, without minimum wage, the regular Target-worker would get LESS than they get today… and he doesn‘t even realize it!
This clown is worse than an evangelical religious nut because at least with religion you can't disprove the existence of God. But you can quite easily disprove the ridiculousness of libertarianism.
He said one thing correctly...."Governments do not have rights" Very true. THEY HAVE RESPONSIBILITY. And that responsibility is to use the people's resources collectively to improve society collectively. Where they go wrong is when they pick and choose which people get to enjoy said resources. We're currently living through massive corruption in this regard.
and why would giving the government more power, as socialists want to do, make them less corrupt. Literally look at any communist "Utopia" and you will corruption and mistreatment of citizens.
The idea that Walmart is run ‘ruthlessly efficiently’ is laughable. Their turnover is massive yet they do nothing to significantly improve employee retention even though it’s incredibly costly to constantly retrain new workers. Wanna know why? Because they’d rather let that money sink into a hole in the ocean before it sees the paycheck of a worker.
I mean, Amazon's warehouse is literally burning through populations of workers by working them so hard (churning through the entire staff in about 8 months in some locations) in combination with a minimum turn-over rate as a quota so employees don't "stagnate", so managers don't need to put employees through the promotion system, and so they have less worry of them organizing. There are a ton of articles from 2021 detailing this after some internal memos were made public.
We also had to use registers that were at least 12 years old, and instead of upgrading them, they would waste money locking up deodorants and other items. I had many customers complain how they couldn't use Apple/Google pay or the contactless payment method (tapping the card to the register).
i actually don't think it's more costly to train workers who end up leaving for higher paying work than it would be to maintain a high and progressively higher payroll for tenured employees. A lot of the training is on the job, and is borne by other employees on the job so the cost is less than you might think. The churn is very profitable due to the lack of tenured employees it produces, and is one of many good reasons to ensure minimum wage is livable.
I love when he refused to talk about the historical reasons why minimum wages and unions needed to be a thing because he knows he would’ve came off as a monster.
@@Night60700 idk depending on what body pillows we're talking about, that's actually infinitely better than literally selling the demise of at least 50% of people
Needs to *continue* to be a thing, with no charter schools, no publicly funded religious schools, no obsequious catering to extremist-parents' "rights," etc.
1:12:40. Dude practically admits he didn’t come to the conversation to learn by saying “oh please, do school me.“ As if he couldn’t learn anything, as if he couldn’t carry on a normal conversation with someone else where they might discover something new. The guy has decided he cannot learn any more things and he’s always correct and likely decided this long long long ago… both cop energy as well as entitled Professor turned pseudo intellectual energy
Omg. I love it. Libertarians really are just the moronic gamer screaming "git gud" while they're running around with aim-bots and cheat codes active. Nothing more. Nothing less. 😅
@@danielfrisk925 thats what i find both hilarious and fascinating that right wing libertarians just think "this is how things are and should be. i dont see anything wrong with that, why do they cheer when im being walked to the guillotine?"
I've seen instances of players gitting gud in the past using [French Revolution] class moves. Can I not unlock those abilities as an American? Did I fuck up in my character creation or job selection? I keep pressing the [Revolt] button, but all my character does is throw stuff into bodies of water ... tea leaves, coffee grounds, this one time it was a bunch of tang powder. I feel like I'm just littering, hurting the local wildlife, and not accomplishing anything towards my goals. Is there any hope to actually git gud with my current build?
On the plus side, if this is the best the Libertarian Party has, I don't think we'll need to worry about a Libertarian becoming president any time soon.
If you took all the presidential votes that all libertarian candidates have ever gotten and gave them to one candidate, the most recent election that candidate could have won is 1916. When the combined history of your party is barely enough to beat Woodrow Wilson's reelection campaign, you're officially not serious people.
These libertarians are so weird. They keep saying the people will decide what to do and how to enforce those standards yet he is against government doing things. Is he too dumb to realize its the exact same thing or is he trying to be sneaky?
He's a Libertarian. They think everyone will come to their conclusions if they just turn off all regulation. They have some physiological inability to make their brain work in any way that processes anything other than their individual preconceived ideas. It's why Libertarians can't even agree what it means to be Libertarian. Their presidential debates are two straight hours of comedy, as there pretty much isn't a single issue they can cohesively get behind as a group.
@@outlawruby Bingo. "Free market" libertarians don't care about people at all. Maybe they do personally but the their ideology is wholly sociopathic and would be 100% fine with exploitation, slavery and serfdom. Actually those are logical consequences of their ideology of profit-maximization for its own sake. Another delusional point they hold is against monopolies or an omni-monopoly which would be a logical end consequence of an actual free market. Competition is inefficient with regards to profit so the "solution" is to merge companies and/or buy out the entire supply chain and then sell crap products at extreme prices. I've never seen a free market libertarian able to deal with this issue, or explain why it happened in the Gilded Age or throughout history before and since then wherever it was permitted.
It makes complete sense. When you are some dude that had his parents pay for college, uncle got him a job, parents gave him 50k down payment for a house, of course they want to pretend their golf handicap doesn't exist.
Which also explains why they so easely step over into racism, fascism. If there isnt a systemic analysis of class and race explaining why black people are more poor, live in poorer neighbourhoods with more crime than average/compared to white people (or outright denying this analysis when presented) - then the alternative is that black people are different, inferior. Why else would black people "make so bad choices" compared to white people, if you deny/dont understand the existence of systemic racism, capitalism. Ofcourse, fascism is also this type of disgusting people in the videos best friend.
It's because they want the concept of fairness to hinge upon their own specific experience, and most tend to be privileged far beyond their own awareness of it. Just another apologetic for the delusion of meritocracy.
@@Reienroute Exactly, and the just world fallacy. Arguments against Libertarianism are pretty much solved. Just bring up how they base their entire philosophy on merit, then use like 4 brain cells to explain the variables that make it based on the opposite.
Considering his "students" were bankers I'd say the former. You don't choose who you're going to be arrested by and crime has a pretty good cool:cringe ratio. You ever meet a cool banker?
Turns out a job advertised as allowing you to abuse people, and does let your abuse people... will end up attracting abusive people with no respect for other
He began almost immediately to talk to Vaush with a condescending barely holding back a laugh kind of voice. How can he ask to be respected when he can't even talk to his opponent in a respectful tone even for a short period of time?
A million times this. He was constantly condescending, and he complained about being interrupted then constantly interrupted Vaush when he asked Vaush to explain something and complained that Vaush didn't explain the thing. Vaush could have explained things much faster if we didn't have to listen to this guy complain about him not explaining it over and over. He has the same personality as my parents. They could do the same condescending stuff and even say some properly heinous shit, but I'm the bad one because I'm sarcastic and swear a lot (not even at them, just generally). Civility politics rots the brain.
I think the moment Vaush said “fascists” followed by this guy’s eyes quickly looking away from the camera set my expectations correctly for this debate.
I work at Walmart and have gotten 0% raise in THREE YEARS. I can literally see the prices of the products we sell increase as the company has both falsely promised and later refused to give us even a SINGLE DOLLAR RAISE as the company profits hundreds of millions of $ a year☠️14/hr$. And I’m 20 and have to pay all my bills,
we were all teenagers at one point. we grew and learned more about the world around us, and changed our beliefs accordingly. there's nothing to be ashamed of there.
@@xx_isabel_the_wolf_xx3869 With the speed at which Vaush had to say "Mike" to him, I'm not sure if that's actually his name or if Vaush was making a reference to Michael Tracy
The Walmart part really got him offguard. His condescending went away really fast when he couldn't offer an answer to why the market forces don't pay more than minimum wage.
@@ARAFELI To be fair sometimes Vaush made some mistakes as well - in case of the teacher wages (why aren't they skyrocketing when there's a shortage) --- that's because states mandate the salary, no? On free market the salary would go up, but in states you need to get it into state budget, vote on the % increase etc., all just creating ineffectivity (maybe 20 % increase is not enough to bring in more teachers, etc.)
@@BeSk9991 wait this is just factually incorrect. You say that wages would go up if there was a free market yet once again, Target and Walmart are both paying min wage in a free market. Unless you would argue that with a min wage a market isn't actually free, which would get you laughed out of not only this comment thread but any econ discussion you'll ever participate in.
He as a libertarian, I'm not sure, I think subscribe to the Austrian school of economics which is not very wellbregarded among economists themselves, to the point of being perceived more as a philosophy about economics rather than a proper economics way of thinking.
Libertarians like: “labor shortages drive up wages”… But farmworkers are paid below minimum wage…. During a worker shortage. …This candidate is soooo transparently weird.
Love the part where he was offended that anyone would think he cares about property more then peoples rights to live peacefully. Then immediately goes into wealth distribution is wrong
I can respect that some people can put business considerations higher than people in their politics, but to then freely espouse just garbage tier business practices, is just 🍄
To be fair the communist position isn’t too far off “steal all private property and give ownership of companies to the employees and just assume stuff will work out for some reason”
You know how I know that without a minimum wage companies wouldn't increase wages? Because they don't increase wages. There is nothing stopping them for increasing your wage, BUT THERE IS something stopping them from decreasing your wage, thanks to the law.
@Matthew teacher salaries arent much better than positions that require no education. The average teacher salary where I live in Texas is like 60k gross. And IMO teachers are worth at least twice that
@Matthew yeah sure those benefits help some but not much. I'm studying to be an engineer, ill likely never make as little as a teacher does, and I'll have benefits too. I'd have to see some pretty damned conclusive evidence to be convinced that a teachers "relatively" better benefits make up for the difference in salary. I think teachers should make as much if not more than engineers, because their job is just as if not more important.
It’s honestly way too risky for a serious candidate to expose themself to Vaush, if that were even a thing that didn’t have a vanishing probability purely because it’s a “small” online audience. They never have to endure such informal, protracted interviews
If, by some miracle, this guy ends up president: 1. Run. 2. Conclusive evidence that god is evil (assuming a divine intervention, no other miracle gets this guy elected) 3. Running is too late, crazy smug grandpa here has already sold your data to the amazon fulfillment squads for collection into one of their 24/7 internal containment fulfillment centers (it's a rational measure to balance the books of the federal government)
like every other libertarian presidential hopeful, he will be regarded at best as a curiosity and at worst as an utter fool. based on his performance here, he would immediately self-immolate on a national stage and be deemed fully unelectable by people on both the right and left.
Votch: Without minimum wage protections, low skill workers would be paid slave wages Unelectable A-hole: Come now, don't be sophomoric Vaush. You and I would fare just splendidly 🙂 His willingness to allow for the suffering of his fellow man is truly disgusting
But everybody can just become a business owner, dontcha know? Everybody. No workers, no customers, no public services. Only magical superhero business owners in Libertarianland.
"His willingness to allow for the suffering of his fellow man is truly disgusting" It's not just willingness, most of the time these people are EAGER to encourage the suffering because it might benefit them.
"Votch: Without minimum wage protections, low skill workers would be paid slave wages Unelectable A-hole: Come now, don't be sophomoric Vaush. You and I would fare just splendidly 🙂" Singapore, Sweden have no minimum wage yet wage are actually quite high.. Minimum is not what set up worker wage.. otherwise everybody would be paid minimum wage and that is not the case (like less than 2%)
@@sypherthe297th2 you refering to anarkocapitalism and not bunching it with left anarchism i hope (anarchocommunism, libertarian socialism, mutualism, anarchosyndicalism) cause that wouldnt be true. Fck ancap "libertarians" if you only mean these as*holes
@@BigSteve9713 I know plenty about anarchism, my sweet simple friend. Its utopian dreck that isn't ready for prime time in any meaningful sense. But I guess all those successful anarchistic societies the world over just make me look ridiculous. . . oh wait.
"lol Your understanding of economics is sophomoric!" "Raising the minimum wage doesn't have any statistical effect on employment." "lol That's not how markets work." 🤦♂
y'know you're dealing with a big-brained boy when they respond to everything you say with 'you're wrong' and refuse to actually explain how in a *debate setting.*
This guy let his feelings get in the way of the conversation, he knows his values don't add up he just doesn't wanna see it because he thinks he's right. Dude did the whole navy seals copypasta at the end.
@@wephilips6651 absolutely, it's all either mentally ill reactionaries or greedy corpos, hell Ayn Rand's philosophy was built off a reaction to the USSR which was basically just a trauma response that went in the complete opposite direction. Right wing libertarianism is all feelings just like you said
Vaush: Explains a problem exactly. Douche: Agrees. Douche: CLEAR Douche: Now that we've dismissed your silly point. Vaush: Wait, how was that silly? Douche: Repeats point he just agreed with Vaush about. Me: Head explodes.
*Vaush:* Provides a detailed explanation for how government regulations can clearly increase standard of living, as demonstrated by unions during the 20th century, illegal immigrant labor markets, and policies in various European countries. *Libertarian after gazing, slack-jawed, into the distance for a full two minutes:* Nuh-uh
the old guy looks stoned, smug, sociopathic, unengaged, assuming his interviewee is stupid for every syllable spoken, poisoning the well every 5 seconds, and mocking the idea that the little guy will go nowhere and just has to suffer under current systems
“How do you account for the wage disparity between documented and undocumented farm workers and the fact that the labor shortage hasn’t resulted in higher wages for both?” -“have you ever been to the border?” 🤦♂️
He's part of the fascist libertarians. If he wanted to protect civil liberty, then he would want it done at the federal level when most Americans support civil liberty. By arguing it should be done at the state level, he knows that it is possible to get a state where a state majority supports banning civil liberty for Blacks, Jews, atheists, etc.
100% correct. He either knows what will happen and is okay with that, or is too ignorant to understand what will happen. Either way, he shouldn't be in power.
The problem is that libertarians who constantly emphasize the importance of the individual above all else, have a tendency to want to grant a certain individual or a group of people an incredible amount of power. They just hide behind “at least it’s not gubment” as an excuse for their blatant authoritarianism.
@@537monster more than that, they categorically deny money and wealth are a form of power, albeit they're nothing but. In a world without other people, money, nor wealth, nor property rights, have zero function. Their only reason of existence is to influence how other people act. And almost all of the violence monopoly is geared to forcefully and with coercion to keep that power intact.
@@537monster capital ownership, corporations above all else, trying to sound like its about individual freedom. Democracy, socialism & welfare is what grants individuals freedom. If its only the select few, rich people then its privilege, not freedom. These ancap fascist "libertarians" are so stupidly obvious aswell with their attempts to present themselves as anything else.
Vaush: "Why aren't fast food workers getting paid more? This guy: "Because they're low-wage jobs." Vaush: "But why not pay them more?" This guy: "Because they're low-wage jobs." Bro can't even answer the question initially. Holy sh!t, this guy... Later: This guy: "Uhm, they're low-skill jobs so they deserve less. Also, I don't like how the state raises minimum wage so people can 'live' on any level of comfort while working those low skill jobs, pshhh..."
I've lost arguments and debates. It happens to just about everyone from time to time. But to be wrong over and over again, and have the nerve to be arrogant about it is ridiculous. Major props to Vaush for staying patient and collected.
Considering this guy only talks with other libertarians, he was progably not prepared to engage with someone who is not braindead. You can see it when he becomes very condesending and it blows up in his face.
He is SOOOOOOO fucking classist!! When Vaush asked him why McDonald's and Wendy's pay the exact same minimum wage despite them being competitors, his response was "oh well those are just low wage jobs." FUUUUUUCK THIS GUY!! So he thinks that because they are low paying jobs, that it must be that way because they are naturally worse jobs or beneath him and not worth discussing, even though Fast Food companies are some of the biggest employers in the country.
God, every libertarian always pearl-clutches and goes down to "YoU bElIeVe ThE gOvErNmEnT sHoUlD dIcTaTe HoW wE iNtErAcT wItH eAcHoThEr?!?! It boggles my mind! Very scary!" like the other guy said the N word, it's so pathetic.
Sure, the government spends too many resources regulating relationships. Because we all know that when left to their own devices, people, groups, and corporations will never abuse their power. Typical libertarian disconnect from reality.
No, you need to understand, abuse of power only comes from not being free enough. It's really the regulation and restraint that causes those abuses. If everyone were just more free, it would all magically work out.
Love that the entire post-debate discussion is essentially "That was weird. Anyways, remember when towns had a true sense of community and inter-connectedness" basically forgetting the entire 2 hour debate. Just goes to show how unmemorable this "Libertarian Presidential Candidate" is to anyone who interacts with him
The problem with this guy is that he doesn't think explotation can exist between an employer and employee because they can quit.
You could have stopped 10 words in. This guy just doesn't think.
I think its one layer deeper. The brainrot that infest libertarians is just that they think oppression can only come from direct threats of violence and that conditions and social systems cant create coercive conditions
Yeah? If you can quit at any moment then that's exactly the case
@@0witw047In a system where quitting means starvation, it is not.
@@0witw047 I mean slaves could kill themselves, therefore they were technically free.
This guy:
1. Was a former right wing economist
2. Former police officer
3. From Florida
4. Is a Libertarian
There it is. The worst possible political combination imaginable.
“Libertarian” who wants “states rights” to decide “civil liberties”.
As a South Floridian, I hate to agree with your opinion
it could be worse. he could be wearing wraparound oakleys too.
If he’s to be believed, this guy advocated deregulation of the market preceding 2008 financial crisis. What a dude.
I swear, while he was listing his credentials, (and you forgot corporate lobbyist, btw,) I was like "Oh, God, this man should not be in charge of managing a McDonald's, much less America."
"I'm a libertarian presidential candidate."
How about we start with your name, not your disability, homie.
Looooooool
did he ever even state his name? lmao
Yup.. I'm a few minutes in and still have no idea who this guy is.
Same response to people who say 'My pronouns are zhe zher"
(im not a conservative)
EDIT: HOLY SHIT UA-cam DELETED MY REPLY THAT I UPDATED
I will post the full comment chain here hopefully this comment will not be deleted.
@vidyagaems4063 okay lil bro I must be the most pro communist conservative to ever grace this Earth.
EDIT: I have to add to my original comment. No matter how many times I reply either youtube or this channel shadowbans my comments. I replied to this guy @Nerobyrne when he posted and no one sees it at all ... crazy. I see my comment but if I refresh or go to a private tab it's just fucking gone.Anyways
I'm not a reactionary tankie sorry if i dont fit into your predefined category. Pushing me into a box doesn't invalidate my opinion. If you can write me off as a group you dislike it makes it easy for you not to critically engage in my disagreement / opinion. This psychology is why people/groups who are close politically often end up fighting or clashing more then groups that are completely politically different .
The situation with Russia and Ukraine is pretty straightforward. Russia is acting on its imperialist mission to engage in the Russification of eastern (eventually all of) Ukraine and this dates back to the 1800s when Russia killed a lot of natives (especially in Crimea) and shipped in a bunch of Russian speaking people to occupy eastern Ukraine. Nowadays, Russia has nukes and gets to bully its neighbors? Fuck that. Helping Ukraine is a just cause to ensure that the precedent of a nuclear power ground invading a sovereign country because they dont like their elected president is not a thing.
Many lead convos with pronouns and neopronouns are brainrot.
I was summoned back here cuz of @rjald4910 thank you lol. I replied to him but no 1 sees it.
I'm crying. Lmao!!! He def hasn't said who he is an hour and a half in.
I think every presidential candidate should debate Vaush
He did have a conversation with Merriam Williamson a couple of months ago so we're making progress lol
@@Rose_Harmonic I lick your profile pic
Next one should be Biden.
@@justinakkerman9196 And then Lil Ronda... Hopefully!!
He could team up with Chris Hedges and visit Trump in prison
I just watched a presidential candidate say that you shouldn’t try to implement your political ideology on the world
He means "don't put your ideology on me, but i will put MINE on you"
This is called "Anti Politics".
It's when elites try to spread the idea that all kinds of politics or government action are bad, to disenfranchise the opposition.
@@xx_isabel_the_wolf_xx3869 You forgot '...and laugh all the way to the bank'. Can't forget all those 'great' corporate donors we can't currently get rid of no matter how much we might want to...
Edit: This was meant for a different reply section but it actually works here too so I'ma leave it
@@fjnordthedwarf4004 this is why i think politicians should just wear nascar style jackets with every corporate sponsor stitched into it so we know who they're paid by
@@xx_isabel_the_wolf_xx3869 the more they donate the bigger the logo has to be.
Vaush: I don’t like fascists pretending to be libertarians, they believe this.
Opponent: But I believe those things?
Yeah, this is going to be another classic debate.
It's always the people that benefit from less oversight that push for less oversight.
This former professor is very smug for someone who cannot present an argument more coherent than “wow, what you just said is so wrong”
Narrator: _what he said was not wrong_
Deadass
"Um, actually, I am smart and right, and you are dumb and wrong."
*Speech: -100*
Every retort by this guy was literally just “nuh-uh.” Unreal.
The worst part is his fans probably thought he destroyed vaush 😭 I wanna jump timelines anyone tryna El Psy Kongroo tf outta here with me?
"Vaush shouldn't care about minimum wage because he's educated enough to not be exploited" is not a take I expected to hear today
And yet, a perfect response.
I'd consider myself fairly well off thankfully not through excessively exploitative means, and I sh!t you not, I can't count the amount of times I hear this take when you question right wing economics and there no poor people around.
“Why aren’t you as blindly self centered as me??????”
The classic slave owner mindset.
Honestly. These people say the quiet parts out loud
Vaush: *gives extended explanation in defense of his point using historical precedent and a clear ethics framework.*
This guy: ............wow you're just so wrong about everything, I can't even explain how.
He did do that a lot
"so you're saying our whole entire economic system is built on coercion???? **laughs* " Yes doofus, because unless you are born into obscene wealth you have to get a job to survive.
Uhh that’s a really sophomoric response! *literally adds nothing after*.
Dude went to the gotcha debate school and forgot you need a brain too.
He did this at the 1:00:00 mark and I genuinely thought the call was about to end over it, and then saw there was still another hour and a half. This is gonna be msierable
These people think guilded age economics were actually great because line go up and that the poor Rockefellers of the world have it at all odds against them
This is a man who is extremely used to not having to treat people with respect.
While asking for respect in return.
@@leonemfrag3826 Seems like hes extremely used to not being talked back to either.
@@Anthonest1well he is a former cop
Seriously. I know he isn't really expecting to be elected to any kind of office, but even amongst the Libertarian party, you have to be, you know, not a complete douche.
Voosh is the perfect person for him to confront them. I’m just starting. I’m expecting destruction lol.
He constantly laughed at what Vaush was saying and the first time Vaush laughed at ONE of his idiotic takes he got triggered. He also talked over Vaush constantly. This guy is a 🤡.
That’s what I said while watching the stream
Thank you this guy was absolutely insufferable 😭
I mean, he was a cop, so yeah that’s not shocking.
It's very typical of Libertarians. Every Libertarian I've ever seen has an absolutely noxious personality.
Timestamp where vaush laughs?
Let a libertarian talk for 5 minutes and they will progressively get more and more unhinged
They often go mask off fascist if you let it go on for enough time.
The only uncertain part is whether it's stupid unhinged or nazi unhinged.
If they're Mises it's 120% nazi, tho
You mean right wing libertarians? Libertarian socialists are just half Anarchists
@@danielfrisk925I remember what old people said about Libertarians: they're closet fascists..
They get reduced to crazy people screaming "taxation is theft!" on message boards for a reason.
This dude is ubiquitously unelectable across the board it would be humiliating to vote for him
I would rather vote for trump than this boomer.
gary johnson but natural selection works backwards now
good thing all libertarians have a humiliation fetish
I'd rather be sisyphus with syphilis than vote for this vampire
Preach.
He is dead center of dead center. Feels like he just does not want to bother whit anything. The worst carier choice i seen in a long time
It's very obvious why this guy stopped being an economist to become a cop
Well, he had to protect property laws in some way.
An ancap libertarian being a conservative economist, banker and a cop makes great sense really. A monopoly of violence is what right wing libertarians wants only for enforcing property "right".
maths is hard.
and then he stopped being a cop to try and run for president, he's desperately trying to escape resistance of any kind
Australia has a minimum wage of like 18 dollars. Australia hasn't collapsed. Europe: same. This makes libertarians question their entire moronic world view, right?
as if they were capable of questioning anything
U.S Libertarians don't know the rest of the world exists...scratch that I'm pretty sure most conservatives in the U.S have no clue how anywhere else in the world works.
pretty sure they think you guys are just bangin rocks together over there while the Kangaroos watch
not quite
They don't want you to know other countries exist.
No. No it doesn’t. :/
Vaush's opponents always fall back on tone policing bc they don't have better arguments.
To hear him try to take the high road every time he was cornered on a point and divert the conversation, especially at the end, after he used just as many insults and condescension as Vaush was so frustrating. He displays no self awareness though I suspect that deep down he knows exactly what he's doing when he avoids responding to those arguments.
Edit: omg also I just rewatched it and after the beginning he was condescending or insulting in nearly every response he gave. In one particular case Vaush kept politely trying to pull him back on topic to address why undocumented immigrants make less than minimum wage like 8 times until Vaush finally accuses him of not caring about poor people. Then the cop has the gall to say Vaush is being too uncivil. 🙄
And as we know from the 2016 presidential election, tone policing your opposition makes you highly electable.
@@Adamska156 He’s a libertarian, they’re as a whole not very good at self-awareness or human interaction.
Lol right 😂 As soon as they get called out for their ideologies leading to harm and saying they are bad people for believing the things they believe, suddenly it's all about civility politics and how people are too mean.
Considering his first reaction to an actual point was to imply Vaush was being bad faith by "carefully choosing" words to create divisiveness... Lmao
I love how “I’m not out to defend property” IMMEDIATELY shifts to “you can’t take money from people” 😂
I SWEAR he said something about defending property being part of his duty as a cop earlier in the conversation.
That 3 second stun after pointing out illegal immigrants are in an unregulated market and that's what he wants for everyone was priceless. Actually had the breath knocked out of him
It's also a ridiculous argument. Illegal immigrants are coerced by the state through threat of deportation. If the normal labor market were as deregulated that wouldn't be the case
@@0witw047 Yeah, then all workers could be coerced by employers and landlords with the threat of starvation and exposure. Much more humane and self-limiting.
@@0witw047 Which is why it shouldn't be deregulated and why the minimum wage is good.
@@0witw047 According to.... the rich people?
He have to pretend company towns didn’t exist to have this conversation. So annoying
Man, I just have to say, Vaush is the best. He gets a libertarian presidential candidate on stream with him and IMMEDIATELY goes right for the throat with the civil rights act. Vaush's ability to cut through BS and talk about what actually matters is always so appreciated.
I don't know if Vaush knew he was affiliated with the Mises Institute but the way he brought them up, described them as bad faith fascists masquerading as libertarians and used the civil/state's rights example to reinforce that was great. Dude immediately announced his affiliation with the Mises Institute, then proved Vaush right by arguing against the civil rights act. He lost every last fragment of credibility before the debate even started.
Vaush was even magnanimously diplomatic at the end
This man is a Scooby Doo villain in the flesh. This level of cognitive dissonance is actually a threat to society
He would’ve got away with it if it wasn’t for that pesky Vaush.
@@1outof5people r/woosh
@@1outof5people 1 out of 5 people don't get the scooby doo reference. You, unfortunately, are that 1 person.
Scooby do villains were far more likable
It's also a threat to mental and physical health...I don't know how Vaush and Sam Seder haven't gotten brain aneurysms debating these sycophants.
It's not just the sheer cognitive dissonance. It's also the fact that they can't/refuse to follow any logic for more than 30 seconds. They quibble over meaningless differences, say something implicitly or otherwise then spend the next 15 mins arguing against what they just said or deny they said it, have 100% inconsistent explanations for the dozens of examples of why their philosophy has never worked, and generally just jump around points because any digging into their theories immediately exposes its ridiculousness. They prefer to stay in the abstract because reality is too inconvenient for them and their dogma.
There is literally no difference between an evangelical religious nut and a libertarian. Actually, a religious nut is more rational because you can't disprove the existence of a God but you can 100% disprove the fallacy that is libertarianism. And it isn't hard to either.
Stopping in the middle of a debate to ask your opponent to check their carbon monoxide detectors is objectively hilarious
the privileged guest just volunteered his entire life to work jobs, he was never forced to get one in order to survive. wow must be nice.
I can't wait to hear how corporations abusing people is ok
"Well you know, the free market will, you know, something." This Libertardian, probably.
Because it’s not government doing it, so it doesn’t count! /s
@@Night60700 i said this before and I'll say it again, they treat the free market like a religion
You cheated, libertarians can't go ten minutes without throating the free market
They're just "being mean"
Silver lining: The age of consent did not come up once in this debate.
I bet if you asked him in private, he'd give you some long-winded answer about how a 14 year old can do math better than most adults, so we should let THEM decide. Something that sounds like he's logically discussing the situation, but in the end, is just spouting excuses to lower AOC.
It’s so weird how libertarian arguments devolve into states rights.
Isn't the state government still a government? Lol argument from a libertarian. 😂
They act like they understand how our kinda democratic US federal government is bad because how authoritarian it can be (which ironically is because of mega wealthy capitalist bribery), but then they unabashedly advocate for extremely brutal authoritarian power structures to replace it while acting completely oblivious to them being authoritarian and clearly objectively worse
"We don't need a government guys... we just need some sort of semi- permanent committee... uhhhh, better delegate it some authority to enforce contracts... uhhh, better delegate it some authority because my neighbors upstream run a tannery... etc etc "
@@bananian Ah, but you see, this guy preempted that argument by saying he actually doesn't want the state government to do civil rights protections either
Always!
The way he gets so angered that Vaush laughs really shows hes a former cop
😂😂😂
Brilliant observation borne by facts and empirical data.
Normal person*
Yeah plus he kept laughing for all the debate at Vaush's argumentations then he took offence at being laughed at back. What an incredible entiteled obtuse smug tool this one
@@amandasmithifno normal person without severe anger issues, a superiority complex, or an exceptionally small penis would react like that.
Which, seeing as he’s a former cop, would likely be all three in this case.
The fact that he can't see the problem with "low wage jobs" and puts no value in the labor done by "low wage" employees says all you need to know. And his smugness is just annoying.
I think a large part of the reason he has such a hard time recognizing that paying workers less than minimum wage would be unethical is because he literally believes he is better than them. Trash people deserve trash wages in his eyes
He sounds like a great guy to work for.
This guy managed to not just get a BINGO, but expertly filed in *every single square* on a BINGO card titled "How to piss off the current generation of potential voters"
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊kkllvl😊😊p😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
😊0m😊ln
How can i be the worst at my job 101 lesson
I woult vote for trump in jail than this guy. At least the fat mans funny.
@@bashfulpanda2596 I watched the Livestream while it was going, so I know how this goes
Dude didn't just fill in the bingo card, motherfucker filled out the entire set
Libertarian turned cop. The absolute state of conservatives in 2023.
tread on me harder
"Let me tread on you"
I'm nearly an hour in and desperate to remind the guy *how* people end up in indentured servitude. This is SO painful.
I love when Vaush pulls out the "positive freedoms vs negative freedoms" vs Libertarians. Its like his Signature yu gi oh card.
and it always works
Anark, the UA-camr had great video on hierarchies and touched on that subject too
Signature coconut.
"Competition will raise wages for workers!"
"Ok, these business are competing fiercely and the wages of the workers are as low as they can legally get away with"
"Well, they need competition"
"But they are competing"
"They need competition. Competition will raise wagers for workers!"
This really felt like a conversation with a literal NPC.
“If they didn’t have a minimum wage, their wages would actually be lower”
“Oh, so minimum wage regulation increased these workers’ wages?”
“No, competition did.”
*insert Patrick’s wallet ad nauseum.”
@@samiamrg7 😂😂 I literally spit out my drink
It reminded me of the Brawndo "electrolytes" debate in the movie Idiocracy
capitalism make the product so cheap as possible and set the highest possible price.
The problem is the workers not competing. Unless they engage in collective bargaining (a fundamental tool of capitalism that must be utilized to maintain the balance of power between employer and employee). There is no competition. The workers have to compete, but the businesses don't.
and in the course of simply 2 hours, this man has successfully alienated any working class vote
Libertarians took an L somewhere around the 10 minute mark when Vaush was like "hey, if we deregulate everything what stops southern states from just instantly rolling back civil liberties in the way right-wing politicians always say they want to and are constantly trying to disingenuously pass in these states through every available means?" and our guest friend just said "oh you really think someone would do that? I mean, do you really want the government FORCING the NATURE OF YOUR RELATIONSHIPS on you?"
It's half "you really think someone would do that? just go on the internet and lie?", and half the Professor Flowers thing where you won't SAY that you're enabling harmful policies, just that people should be completely free to do WHATEVER THEY FEEL LIKE, and if that HAPPENS to be even worse working conditions and social conditions when companies and right-wing policymakers get their way, OH WELL I GUESS IT CANT BE HELPED.
FUUUUUUUUCK this guy. I'll probably watch the rest of the debate because it's still useful to see how to rhetorically debunk/debate these people, but holy shit there's a 0% chance I'd ever vote Libertarian. Not only is it a waste in a FPTP voting structure, but there's just no sociopolitical or philosophic argument for this line of thinking leading to good outcomes.
Not saying I agree with it, but the truly libertarian position would to have the federal government reign in the power of state and local governments to make policy on this subject.
Lets be really kind to this guy for a sec, and assume that yeah, noone would do that.
Okay, why do you care about it not being allowed then?
Couldn't've said it any better myself!
Morally AND intellectually bankrupt. I think it’s generous to call libertarianism an ideology
The is one of the biggest issues with libertarianism and its holy 'free market.' Slavery and exploitation aren't just some rare exceptions, they are literally logical consequences that would become almost universal (again).
He was an economist and then became a police officer? Sounds like he failed at being an economist.
He just wanted to help people! For some reason he didn't become a fireman or nurse or doctor though. Don't worry about why, he just wanted to help!
He didn't know the definition of market failure as an economics professor running for president on a platform of pro laissez-faire capitalism 😂
“Sucks to be you” is libertarianism in a nutshell.
You think he's an old libertarian but he's actually 24...
What libertarianism does to a motherfucker
That's being generous. He has a HighSchool econ level of knowledge. If he know anything less about economics he'd implode.
@@Night60700 highschoolers know much, much more because they don't willingly misinform themselves and don't spread lies.
This dude is 17 at most
working in the mines do that to ya
Right-libertarianism should be considered a form of mental disability
I already consider it just Proto fascism.
@@blackwatertv7018 "Deregulatory Fascism"
Conservatism should be considered a form of mental disability
As a former right-libertarian, now left-libertarian I think that most right-libertarians are just lefties with brainworms, they hold basically the same values but are obsessed with the free market for some reason
I think it's literally a form of sociopathy with their end goal being profit maximization rather than human wellbeing. The problem with that as we see over and over in history is, that a logical consequence of profit maximization is exploitation, slavery, serfdom, or near-slavery conditions, and of course, massive inequality. This is why we see him pretending to care yet he has no ideological basis since his ideology doesn't care.
I realize logically that this man is more educated and experienced than Vaush, and I'm biased towards Vaush's ideas. So I sure wish this libertarian guy had actually shown his education and supported his ideas instead of just saying "Nananana, I'm more educated so I'm right." I don't care if you have ten PhDs, that's not the way to get me on your side.
I can see it now. This guy leading the masses by bragging about his resume, careers, and smug remarks. Removing the minimum wage will rile up the working people, and he will be the avantegard.
he probably believes in an educated _elite._ yes they're educated, but they rule because they're elite.
Every single right wing professional is like this. This clown was handed his Economics degree, same as he was handed everything else. When actually asked to do something aside parroting talking points handed to him by paymasters he shuts TF down
The fact that it took 1 hour for this human being to recognize the fact of coersion in the very system he supposedly studied, makes me feel like he should consider suing his place of education.
Vaush literally got this guy to admit that, without minimum wage, the regular Target-worker would get LESS than they get today… and he doesn‘t even realize it!
he realizes it, he pretends not to because he's a coward and can't admit he's wrong.
@@thevotemanI don't know, this guy might be a legitimate idiot. The dude can't seem to follow a single line of logic
This clown is worse than an evangelical religious nut because at least with religion you can't disprove the existence of God. But you can quite easily disprove the ridiculousness of libertarianism.
@@thevotemanIsn't that a core requirement for being a libertarian?
@@thevoteman more like he realizes it and pretends not to because thats preferable to him
He said one thing correctly...."Governments do not have rights"
Very true. THEY HAVE RESPONSIBILITY. And that responsibility is to use the people's resources collectively to improve society collectively. Where they go wrong is when they pick and choose which people get to enjoy said resources. We're currently living through massive corruption in this regard.
AND, in my never to be humble opinion, government has the responsibility to protect ALL of its citizens, not JUST the ones who can pay for it!
and why would giving the government more power, as socialists want to do, make them less corrupt. Literally look at any communist "Utopia" and you will corruption and mistreatment of citizens.
The idea that Walmart is run ‘ruthlessly efficiently’ is laughable. Their turnover is massive yet they do nothing to significantly improve employee retention even though it’s incredibly costly to constantly retrain new workers. Wanna know why? Because they’d rather let that money sink into a hole in the ocean before it sees the paycheck of a worker.
Paying workers would set a bad precedent. 😜
This dude has never seen the interior of a Walmart outside of racist videos his friends send him
I mean, Amazon's warehouse is literally burning through populations of workers by working them so hard (churning through the entire staff in about 8 months in some locations) in combination with a minimum turn-over rate as a quota so employees don't "stagnate", so managers don't need to put employees through the promotion system, and so they have less worry of them organizing. There are a ton of articles from 2021 detailing this after some internal memos were made public.
We also had to use registers that were at least 12 years old, and instead of upgrading them, they would waste money locking up deodorants and other items. I had many customers complain how they couldn't use Apple/Google pay or the contactless payment method (tapping the card to the register).
i actually don't think it's more costly to train workers who end up leaving for higher paying work than it would be to maintain a high and progressively higher payroll for tenured employees. A lot of the training is on the job, and is borne by other employees on the job so the cost is less than you might think. The churn is very profitable due to the lack of tenured employees it produces, and is one of many good reasons to ensure minimum wage is livable.
I love when he refused to talk about the historical reasons why minimum wages and unions needed to be a thing because he knows he would’ve came off as a monster.
But we all know deep inside that he is evil and a monster.
professional economist turned police officer from florida has gotta be the worst string of occupations i’ve ever heard
The worst thing about him is that he willingly identifies as a libertarian. Can't think of anything more sad than proudly proclaiming that.
I still think body pillow salesman turned politician still takes the cake.
@@Night60700 lol
@@Night60700 idk depending on what body pillows we're talking about, that's actually infinitely better than literally selling the demise of at least 50% of people
@@Night60700 I would vote for that
This entire debate was literally just the Patrick’s wallet bit for over two hours
Thats a great summary
Exactly this
This dude is the reason public education is a thing
He's also the utmost example on how it's failing
this dude is the reason public education is under threat
Needs to *continue* to be a thing, with no charter schools, no publicly funded religious schools, no obsequious catering to extremist-parents' "rights," etc.
You know he *hates* public schools, too.
Whats his name
That guy was so incredibly and insufferably smug and condescending for being as stupid as he is. That was hard to watch.
I had to listen to this debate instead of watching it, the dude's constant smug grinning was distracting me from the actual arguments.
Nothing more annoying than smug dumb people who think they're very smart.
He didn't even remember to tell everyone what his name is during his intro. I caught that his first name is Mike when Vaush said it.
To be fair, Vaush can be quite smug himself. But compared to this guy, Vaush is Mr. Rogers.
Is it just me, or is that the case when arguing with libertarians
1:12:40. Dude practically admits he didn’t come to the conversation to learn by saying “oh please, do school me.“ As if he couldn’t learn anything, as if he couldn’t carry on a normal conversation with someone else where they might discover something new. The guy has decided he cannot learn any more things and he’s always correct and likely decided this long long long ago… both cop energy as well as entitled Professor turned pseudo intellectual energy
Yah he tried to subtlety call Vaush stupid about 20 times and then couldn’t help himself by this point.
The libertarian position just boils down to: People have the right to abuse their workers, and those workers just need to git-gud
And then they cry when workers eat the rich
Omg. I love it. Libertarians really are just the moronic gamer screaming "git gud" while they're running around with aim-bots and cheat codes active. Nothing more. Nothing less. 😅
The workers should practice parrying and dodge rolling
@@danielfrisk925 thats what i find both hilarious and fascinating that right wing libertarians just think
"this is how things are and should be. i dont see anything wrong with that, why do they cheer when im being walked to the guillotine?"
I've seen instances of players gitting gud in the past using [French Revolution] class moves. Can I not unlock those abilities as an American? Did I fuck up in my character creation or job selection?
I keep pressing the [Revolt] button, but all my character does is throw stuff into bodies of water ... tea leaves, coffee grounds, this one time it was a bunch of tang powder. I feel like I'm just littering, hurting the local wildlife, and not accomplishing anything towards my goals.
Is there any hope to actually git gud with my current build?
I love libertarian debates. So entertaining. They’re like boot licking martians.
ironic considering how often they tout "i wanna live independently" not realizing they support Pinkerton actions.
@@fatshibaballs BOOKER DEWITT!!!! GIVE US THE GIRL AND WIPE AWAY THE DEBT!
This guy never shuts up and yet gets upset when Vaush tries to interject.
The right's hidden motto is "Its different when we do it".
On the plus side, if this is the best the Libertarian Party has, I don't think we'll need to worry about a Libertarian becoming president any time soon.
If you took all the presidential votes that all libertarian candidates have ever gotten and gave them to one candidate, the most recent election that candidate could have won is 1916.
When the combined history of your party is barely enough to beat Woodrow Wilson's reelection campaign, you're officially not serious people.
Sadly, most Republicans are basically Libertarian-lite.
They’re all a bunch of clowns!
Larry Sharpe would pretzel this guy
Idk if thats really a plus side. If this is the best they can offer right now, they wont be able to siphon votes away from republicans.
These libertarians are so weird. They keep saying the people will decide what to do and how to enforce those standards yet he is against government doing things. Is he too dumb to realize its the exact same thing or is he trying to be sneaky?
To libertarians, the people being able to decide to what to do only includes those who own billion dollar corporate conglomerates.
Dumb
He's a Libertarian. They think everyone will come to their conclusions if they just turn off all regulation. They have some physiological inability to make their brain work in any way that processes anything other than their individual preconceived ideas. It's why Libertarians can't even agree what it means to be Libertarian. Their presidential debates are two straight hours of comedy, as there pretty much isn't a single issue they can cohesively get behind as a group.
@@outlawruby Bingo. "Free market" libertarians don't care about people at all. Maybe they do personally but the their ideology is wholly sociopathic and would be 100% fine with exploitation, slavery and serfdom. Actually those are logical consequences of their ideology of profit-maximization for its own sake.
Another delusional point they hold is against monopolies or an omni-monopoly which would be a logical end consequence of an actual free market. Competition is inefficient with regards to profit so the "solution" is to merge companies and/or buy out the entire supply chain and then sell crap products at extreme prices. I've never seen a free market libertarian able to deal with this issue, or explain why it happened in the Gilded Age or throughout history before and since then wherever it was permitted.
They seem to think that people who cannot ascertain their freedom do not deserve it
Less than 10 minutes in and this guy is already saying that getting rid of civil rights is freedom
It is if you're the class of people who will benefit from not having civil rights.
Libertarian candidates are so _profoundly_ unaware of the systems that they interact with. It breaks my brain.
It makes complete sense. When you are some dude that had his parents pay for college, uncle got him a job, parents gave him 50k down payment for a house, of course they want to pretend their golf handicap doesn't exist.
Which also explains why they so easely step over into racism, fascism.
If there isnt a systemic analysis of class and race explaining why black people are more poor, live in poorer neighbourhoods with more crime than average/compared to white people (or outright denying this analysis when presented) - then the alternative is that black people are different, inferior.
Why else would black people "make so bad choices" compared to white people, if you deny/dont understand the existence of systemic racism, capitalism.
Ofcourse, fascism is also this type of disgusting people in the videos best friend.
The other half of them is well aware and are purposefully abusing the systems for personal gains. They dont care about human lives.
It's because they want the concept of fairness to hinge upon their own specific experience, and most tend to be privileged far beyond their own awareness of it. Just another apologetic for the delusion of meritocracy.
@@Reienroute Exactly, and the just world fallacy. Arguments against Libertarianism are pretty much solved. Just bring up how they base their entire philosophy on merit, then use like 4 brain cells to explain the variables that make it based on the opposite.
I cant decide if it would be more embarrassing to be taught or arrested by this guy
Considering his "students" were bankers I'd say the former. You don't choose who you're going to be arrested by and crime has a pretty good cool:cringe ratio. You ever meet a cool banker?
Lol!!!
@@TayTayMakesBeats I never met a cool banker... probably because I've never a banker, but I bet if I did met a banker they woudn't be cool
It’s terrifying that this guy was a cop with the ability to arrest people. What an absolute dunce. Jesus.
Turns out a job advertised as allowing you to abuse people, and does let your abuse people... will end up attracting abusive people with no respect for other
He began almost immediately to talk to Vaush with a condescending barely holding back a laugh kind of voice. How can he ask to be respected when he can't even talk to his opponent in a respectful tone even for a short period of time?
A million times this. He was constantly condescending, and he complained about being interrupted then constantly interrupted Vaush when he asked Vaush to explain something and complained that Vaush didn't explain the thing. Vaush could have explained things much faster if we didn't have to listen to this guy complain about him not explaining it over and over.
He has the same personality as my parents. They could do the same condescending stuff and even say some properly heinous shit, but I'm the bad one because I'm sarcastic and swear a lot (not even at them, just generally). Civility politics rots the brain.
This is a common trait amongst libertarians seeking to ascend to any kind of public office.
This was such a bad idea on his part to debate you. He looks terrible in this
He didn't need vaush's help to crash his "campaign" vaush simply laughed at the wreckage and walked away
Once you reject empiricism, no argument works.
I’m sure, in his feeble mind, he thought he did great. These libertarians are all the same. Buncha idiots!
According to Vaush in the beginning the guy's manager reached out to Vaush and I already had the feeling that his manager probably fuhqing hates him
@@WackadoodleMalarkey LMFAO thats awesome, he must be some sort of double agent
Man, I was not expecting a former professor of economics to fail this badly at defending his positions.
I think the moment Vaush said “fascists” followed by this guy’s eyes quickly looking away from the camera set my expectations correctly for this debate.
I work at Walmart and have gotten 0% raise in THREE YEARS. I can literally see the prices of the products we sell increase as the company has both falsely promised and later refused to give us even a SINGLE DOLLAR RAISE as the company profits hundreds of millions of $ a year☠️14/hr$. And I’m 20 and have to pay all my bills,
Yes, but did the market cum, or whatever the fuck he was saying?
I'm ashamed to have ever been a right libertarian. What a joke...
Same. Glad you and I see how bad their arguments are
glad to see you recovered from your illness
we were all teenagers at one point. we grew and learned more about the world around us, and changed our beliefs accordingly. there's nothing to be ashamed of there.
Same lmao
Glad to see you managed to fix the gas leak in your home
This guy is so policy forward he doesnt even bother mentioning his own name.
I still don't know who he is
Dude its like Jimmy or something. Stop being pawn of the state, OK?
@@xx_isabel_the_wolf_xx3869 With the speed at which Vaush had to say "Mike" to him, I'm not sure if that's actually his name or if Vaush was making a reference to Michael Tracy
Based on what I found on wikipedia, he's Mike ter Maat.
@@xx_isabel_the_wolf_xx3869and I'm so glad I don't
Extremely painful to watch
I guess his love for liberty extends to taking liberties with what’s been said in the conversation
well he did say he doesn't believe in positive freedom
Underrated comment
Vaush is so quick. This dude is a debate God. Swatting away nonsense with the deftness of a leopard.
This guy is so condescending i cant believe Vaush has the tolerance to have him one
The Walmart part really got him offguard.
His condescending went away really fast when he couldn't offer an answer to why the market forces don't pay more than minimum wage.
Part of the superpower side of autism. Vaush doesn't care if he acts condescending.
It wouldn't have bugged me so much if he didn't turn around and accuse Vaush of being mean lol. This guy is a child.
@@ARAFELI To be fair sometimes Vaush made some mistakes as well - in case of the teacher wages (why aren't they skyrocketing when there's a shortage) --- that's because states mandate the salary, no? On free market the salary would go up, but in states you need to get it into state budget, vote on the % increase etc., all just creating ineffectivity (maybe 20 % increase is not enough to bring in more teachers, etc.)
@@BeSk9991 wait this is just factually incorrect. You say that wages would go up if there was a free market yet once again, Target and Walmart are both paying min wage in a free market. Unless you would argue that with a min wage a market isn't actually free, which would get you laughed out of not only this comment thread but any econ discussion you'll ever participate in.
This guy is proof that we don't live in a meritocracy. How can an economics professor know so little about his own discipline? Pathetic
He as a libertarian, I'm not sure, I think subscribe to the Austrian school of economics which is not very wellbregarded among economists themselves, to the point of being perceived more as a philosophy about economics rather than a proper economics way of thinking.
He left economics to become a cop. I don't think he was a very good economist if he switched vastly different careers
@@Dashi90 If you go from literally anything to a cop you weren't very good at it. People who are good at things don't become cops.
Libertarians like: “labor shortages drive up wages”…
But farmworkers are paid below minimum wage…. During a worker shortage.
…This candidate is soooo transparently weird.
Love the part where he was offended that anyone would think he cares about property more then peoples rights to live peacefully. Then immediately goes into wealth distribution is wrong
I can respect that some people can put business considerations higher than people in their politics, but to then freely espouse just garbage tier business practices, is just 🍄
Tin-Trailer God-Emperor Complex
So he's in line with basically all libertarians:
"Remove all regulations and just assume stuff will work out for some reason!"
Well, to be fair, because “markets.” Or substitute “magic,” “alchemy,” “fairy dust,” etc.
To be fair the communist position isn’t too far off “steal all private property and give ownership of companies to the employees and just assume stuff will work out for some reason”
"Don't worry, our economy will be saved by America Magic✨️ It's like Bioware Magic but real this time!"
@@aegisScalenot bioware magic 😂 that's og Jim sterling right there
Equally unreal actually
You know how I know that without a minimum wage companies wouldn't increase wages?
Because they don't increase wages.
There is nothing stopping them for increasing your wage, BUT THERE IS something stopping them from decreasing your wage, thanks to the law.
this guy literally said "people become teachers because it pays pretty good" 🤨🤨 and he wants to be president?
The number 1 thing I've been told of all my classes for becoming a teacher in college is "we know you're not in this job for the money"
Yea Thats why i became a teacher... becouse the pay is good... right...
@Matthew teacher salaries arent much better than positions that require no education. The average teacher salary where I live in Texas is like 60k gross. And IMO teachers are worth at least twice that
@Matthew yeah sure those benefits help some but not much. I'm studying to be an engineer, ill likely never make as little as a teacher does, and I'll have benefits too. I'd have to see some pretty damned conclusive evidence to be convinced that a teachers "relatively" better benefits make up for the difference in salary.
I think teachers should make as much if not more than engineers, because their job is just as if not more important.
I will note that he said "for the work they're expected to so."
Aka he thinks teachers are lazy and or useless
If by some miracle this guy ends up president, it will be so funny that you debated a US president before election.
Not a chance in hell loool
@@kettelbe Maybe a chance in hell. If anyone could make hell a worse place.
It’s honestly way too risky for a serious candidate to expose themself to Vaush, if that were even a thing that didn’t have a vanishing probability purely because it’s a “small” online audience. They never have to endure such informal, protracted interviews
If, by some miracle, this guy ends up president:
1. Run.
2. Conclusive evidence that god is evil (assuming a divine intervention, no other miracle gets this guy elected)
3. Running is too late, crazy smug grandpa here has already sold your data to the amazon fulfillment squads for collection into one of their 24/7 internal containment fulfillment centers (it's a rational measure to balance the books of the federal government)
@@catsforcomms1952 Vaush would destroys Kennedy Jr so quick in 5 minutes.
This man may be the most smug human to ever Larp as a serious candidate.
like every other libertarian presidential hopeful, he will be regarded at best as a curiosity and at worst as an utter fool. based on his performance here, he would immediately self-immolate on a national stage and be deemed fully unelectable by people on both the right and left.
Votch: Without minimum wage protections, low skill workers would be paid slave wages
Unelectable A-hole: Come now, don't be sophomoric Vaush. You and I would fare just splendidly 🙂
His willingness to allow for the suffering of his fellow man is truly disgusting
But everybody can just become a business owner, dontcha know? Everybody. No workers, no customers, no public services. Only magical superhero business owners in Libertarianland.
Certified "quiet part out loud" moment
@@Bnio it said so in my favorite book _Atlas Shrugged!_
"His willingness to allow for the suffering of his fellow man is truly disgusting"
It's not just willingness, most of the time these people are EAGER to encourage the suffering because it might benefit them.
"Votch: Without minimum wage protections, low skill workers would be paid slave wages
Unelectable A-hole: Come now, don't be sophomoric Vaush. You and I would fare just splendidly 🙂"
Singapore, Sweden have no minimum wage yet wage are actually quite high..
Minimum is not what set up worker wage.. otherwise everybody would be paid minimum wage and that is not the case (like less than 2%)
The Libertarian dude is arguing basically for feudalism in 2023. Vaush, you have the patience of a saint to handle this dude with grace.
Thats what ancaps want basicaly.
Libertarianism (and anarchism) is always an argument for feudalism whether the proponent realizes it or not.
@@sypherthe297th2 you refering to anarkocapitalism and not bunching it with left anarchism i hope (anarchocommunism, libertarian socialism, mutualism, anarchosyndicalism) cause that wouldnt be true. Fck ancap "libertarians" if you only mean these as*holes
@@sypherthe297th2 look who doesn't know anything about Anarchism, yikes
@@BigSteve9713 I know plenty about anarchism, my sweet simple friend. Its utopian dreck that isn't ready for prime time in any meaningful sense. But I guess all those successful anarchistic societies the world over just make me look ridiculous. . . oh wait.
As a pre-service teacher, this man and his ilk are the EXACT REASON our education system is currently failing.
Literally true. Charter school voucher pushing dweebs
Imagine poisoning the well brutally so early on and then still demanding respect. Sociopathic behavior.
"lol Your understanding of economics is sophomoric!"
"Raising the minimum wage doesn't have any statistical effect on employment."
"lol That's not how markets work."
🤦♂
y'know you're dealing with a big-brained boy when they respond to everything you say with 'you're wrong' and refuse to actually explain how in a *debate setting.*
*Smug forced laughter*
“the bourgeois exist” wooow how sophomoric of you vowsh
like all libertarians, this guy lives in a complete fantasy world.
This guy let his feelings get in the way of the conversation, he knows his values don't add up he just doesn't wanna see it because he thinks he's right. Dude did the whole navy seals copypasta at the end.
All libertarianism is just feelings. It’s literally like talking with a edgy teenager. I have this kind of interactions with my students all the time
@@wephilips6651 absolutely, it's all either mentally ill reactionaries or greedy corpos, hell Ayn Rand's philosophy was built off a reaction to the USSR which was basically just a trauma response that went in the complete opposite direction. Right wing libertarianism is all feelings just like you said
Vaush: Explains a problem exactly.
Douche: Agrees.
Douche: CLEAR
Douche: Now that we've dismissed your silly point.
Vaush: Wait, how was that silly?
Douche: Repeats point he just agreed with Vaush about.
Me: Head explodes.
*Vaush:* Provides a detailed explanation for how government regulations can clearly increase standard of living, as demonstrated by unions during the 20th century, illegal immigrant labor markets, and policies in various European countries.
*Libertarian after gazing, slack-jawed, into the distance for a full two minutes:* Nuh-uh
the old guy looks stoned, smug, sociopathic, unengaged, assuming his interviewee is stupid for every syllable spoken, poisoning the well every 5 seconds, and mocking the idea that the little guy will go nowhere and just has to suffer under current systems
Then proudly stating Vaush said too much wrong for him to have an argument. Can’t even give an example what was wrong.
This guy is a cackling hyena. He wasn't interested in engaging with Vaush's arguments in good faith at all.
Rightoids are anti-truth
Reminiscent of Harold from The Red Green Show
I kept waiting for the _Huuuoaaauugh_
“How do you account for the wage disparity between documented and undocumented farm workers and the fact that the labor shortage hasn’t resulted in higher wages for both?”
-“have you ever been to the border?”
🤦♂️
"yeah but brown people icky"
-literally all Republicans (libertarians being Republicans who think they're smarter than Republicans)
Libertarian values are pure comedy gold... until you remember that they're not joking.
This debate was literally the Monty python what did the romans do for us skit.
He's part of the fascist libertarians. If he wanted to protect civil liberty, then he would want it done at the federal level when most Americans support civil liberty. By arguing it should be done at the state level, he knows that it is possible to get a state where a state majority supports banning civil liberty for Blacks, Jews, atheists, etc.
100% correct. He either knows what will happen and is okay with that, or is too ignorant to understand what will happen. Either way, he shouldn't be in power.
The problem is that libertarians who constantly emphasize the importance of the individual above all else, have a tendency to want to grant a certain individual or a group of people an incredible amount of power.
They just hide behind “at least it’s not gubment” as an excuse for their blatant authoritarianism.
"blacks"
@@537monster more than that, they categorically deny money and wealth are a form of power, albeit they're nothing but.
In a world without other people, money, nor wealth, nor property rights, have zero function. Their only reason of existence is to influence how other people act. And almost all of the violence monopoly is geared to forcefully and with coercion to keep that power intact.
@@537monster capital ownership, corporations above all else, trying to sound like its about individual freedom. Democracy, socialism & welfare is what grants individuals freedom. If its only the select few, rich people then its privilege, not freedom.
These ancap fascist "libertarians" are so stupidly obvious aswell with their attempts to present themselves as anything else.
Vaush: "Why aren't fast food workers getting paid more?
This guy: "Because they're low-wage jobs."
Vaush: "But why not pay them more?"
This guy: "Because they're low-wage jobs."
Bro can't even answer the question initially. Holy sh!t, this guy...
Later:
This guy: "Uhm, they're low-skill jobs so they deserve less. Also, I don't like how the state raises minimum wage so people can 'live' on any level of comfort while working those low skill jobs, pshhh..."
Libertarianism is a mental disorder, and I pray this guy gets the help he needs.
It is literally just people with privilege pretending they won shit in a fair competition
Don't be ableist, this is insulting to people with mental disorders. This guy is just blinded by his ideology.
It’s simultaneously a learning disability and a catalyst for learning disability.
I've lost arguments and debates. It happens to just about everyone from time to time. But to be wrong over and over again, and have the nerve to be arrogant about it is ridiculous. Major props to Vaush for staying patient and collected.
the level of smugness of this guy was really fucking unbelieveble
Considering this guy only talks with other libertarians, he was progably not prepared to engage with someone who is not braindead. You can see it when he becomes very condesending and it blows up in his face.
This libertarian has never been to the boarder or to the Midwest. He functionally doesn’t know how the majority of Americans live.
He is SOOOOOOO fucking classist!! When Vaush asked him why McDonald's and Wendy's pay the exact same minimum wage despite them being competitors, his response was "oh well those are just low wage jobs."
FUUUUUUCK THIS GUY!! So he thinks that because they are low paying jobs, that it must be that way because they are naturally worse jobs or beneath him and not worth discussing, even though Fast Food companies are some of the biggest employers in the country.
Holy shit, you can tell as soon as he says why he arranged this interview that he has no idea what a shitstorm he is headed for.
“How much are people paid at Target?”
“I assume this is some kind of metaphor.”
They’d be lucky to get paid a simile
God, every libertarian always pearl-clutches and goes down to "YoU bElIeVe ThE gOvErNmEnT sHoUlD dIcTaTe HoW wE iNtErAcT wItH eAcHoThEr?!?! It boggles my mind! Very scary!" like the other guy said the N word, it's so pathetic.
What's cool about vaush is that he can advocate for the rights of workers/marginalized peoples and say the n word at the same time!
Sure, the government spends too many resources regulating relationships. Because we all know that when left to their own devices, people, groups, and corporations will never abuse their power. Typical libertarian disconnect from reality.
No, you need to understand, abuse of power only comes from not being free enough. It's really the regulation and restraint that causes those abuses. If everyone were just more free, it would all magically work out.
I needed that laugh today 😂😂😂 libertarians explaining their ideology is comic gold
Love that the entire post-debate discussion is essentially "That was weird. Anyways, remember when towns had a true sense of community and inter-connectedness" basically forgetting the entire 2 hour debate. Just goes to show how unmemorable this "Libertarian Presidential Candidate" is to anyone who interacts with him
He's literally Libertarian William Lane Craig?! His look, his background aesthetic, speaking patterns, smug elitism, it's all the same.
Holy crap, that's why I got so triggered. The annoyance I get from both these guys are unbearable! 🤦
You should have asked him “ is poverty a necessity” as a blanket statement and see what his answer was
Niiiice. Missed opportunity