Commander Underperformers: Worse Than They Look
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
- These Commander cards played out a lot worse than we initially thought they would!
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I love this chanel but Borors Charm and Elspeth have saved me enough times, for me to dissagree with them hard.
Agreed, Boros Charm has served me well almost every time.
I'd say it's a meta-dependent card. If you're in an exile-removal-heavy meta, then it definitely loses a bit of its charm. 😉
Boros charm being able to hit opponents creatures that are attacking other opponents is why it's still good. Giveing a 1/1 double strike us awesome when their blocking najeela.
@@danielborkowski291 yup, same with elspeth, if you play in no-combo or just a lower powered meta, she is likely to do her job well.
I'd say that Boros charm used to be one of the most appealing aspects of playing the colors, but the good boardwipes don't really destroy anymore. Farewell, Winds of Abandon, Sunfall, Toxic Deluge, Cyclonic Rift, even Evacuation all laugh at it.
I've been blown out by inkshield, to the tune of 140+ inklings. And I must agree, I wish it wasn't played so often.
Boros charm is great if you cast it before you cast your Armageddon, cataclysm, or devastation. Also, as far as holding up the mana for it and not needing to cast it, that’s a good thing. It means you didn’t need to use a protection spell to protect your vital pieces, and you have it for later in the game. This allows you to cast your vampiric tutor and path to exile, for example, with that mana you held up.
Agreed! My only minor nitpick is that Boros Charm won't work for Cataclysm because Cataclysm sacrifices. Works for Armageddon though!
How the hell is Boros charm and Elspeth, Sun's Champion on this list.
A 6 mana board wipe is mid, and charm doesn't do anything outside of mode 2
@@thatguyintherain3168 bruh, the double strike ends games and the indestructible is anti-wipe tech. I’ve been blown out by all 3 modes before.
And Elspeth isn’t *just* a boardwipe, repeatable tokens, especially *THREE* of them every turn, matter a lot to many decks.
@@jemm113in a mondrak token deck or superfriend deck elspeth is really good
Inkshield being bad is the hottest take here. Ive won so many games off of Inkshield its an all star in my Isshin deck.
It performs poorly against combos, but then every fog does. The amount of flyers and etb effects this triggers against board state decks though is... absurd.
Ive seen this card generate literally infinite tokens and infinite etb effects. Did yall forget about Impact tremors?
I cant explain how much Mardu decks love this card.
One hundred percent agree here. Will put on my Caesar Deck
Inkshield has never let me down, it's often the best card in my aristocrat deck. Maybe use it there.
Same that's one of my ace cards in my elas deck
Works a lot better if you can just sac a creature or three to cover the costs.
If that's the best card in an aristocrat deck maybe you need to rethink your aristocrat deck...
Tell us your playgroup is combat focused without telling us your playgroup is combat focused.
Wild how different meta's can impact cards, Command Zone put Inkshield just below Jeskas Will and I had to take it out of a deck cause it would end games so easily
Elspeth is a house in my Ephara deck, make 3 dudes, draw a card, help me block, makes dudes after a boardwipe as I work towards the emblem
What type of games do you all play?
I mean really.
Boros Charm is am amazing and does so much of what you want to do in those colors. It has 3 great abilities on one card so it saving you space and acts like 3 extra cards in your hand.
If you are playing almost any deck with the Boros color combo then it is what you need.
Used to play this card a lot but im fully with the nerds, Ill probably never touch this card again
I'm with the nerds here too... boros charm its the kind of card i always end with it in my hand... and just because of the middle module. The first is limited, and the last one is useless...
@@austingentri why?
The "boardwipe protection" mode has fallen off due to White, Black, and Blue's ability to ignore it with exile, minuses, and bounce.
@@BIGFRANKOL75 Its just like the Nerds said: none of the modes are going to be useful every turn, so holding up the two mana for something that is likely going to be either a dead card or have small impact for two mana isnt appealing to me. Versatility is nice, but in the case of this card id rather just play 3 different cards that are better at what they do and have higher impact because it doesnt have modes like Mystic Confluence, which is never a dead card if you hold up mana for it. I dont think Boros Charm is unplayable --far from it in fact-- but it just never makes the cut in my decks anymore. There are probably some very specific decks that still want it, but I think that number is much smaller than a lot of people think. Id never judge someone for playing it though (or any card for that matter)
On what planet are Inkshield, Boros Charm, and Leyline Binding underperforming? Literally some of your best draws mid-game. Always gas for me.
Dark Prophecy doesn't get played BECAUSE it's triple black. Unless you're in mono black, more often than not, you're gonna be missing at least 1 black pip when you actually want to cast it. The more colors you're in, the more likely you are to be missing that last black pip.
As for Moldervine Reclamation, it massively overplayed itself when I was running Chatterfang, and I currently have it in my Meren build. Pretty much I only run it when it gives me additional value within my gameplan. If I can sacrifice a creature, get the creature's bonus, get an experience counter, AND draw more fuel, it's pretty damn good. However, with that Meren deck, I virtually removed nonramp tutors (Sidisi, Final Parting, Tooth and Nail, and Chord of Calling are it) to avoid searching the same lines, so I needed a value piece that I can reasonably play to give more consistent card draw.
Too funny. These are all cards I see every time I flip through my cards while deckbuilding and stare at them and always rule them out.
Inkshiled is just insanely good. Get good at using it i guess.
Counterpoint: In most of the points where you can hold up 5 mana and then use inkshield, you could have just closed out the game using that 5 extra mana.
It has its place, but I think a lot of people overvalue it.
People always seems to hold Inkshield for a big attack, but I learned that you only need to evade like 5 or 6 points of damage to make it worth, you get enough creatures to finish games with that much power imho
As a timmy player i prefer to just tap out and play some big creature for you to hold that inkshield up against 😋
You guys talk up Farewell all the time and there's no doubt it's good. But man I don't ever see it? I see Blasphemous Act and Vanquish the Horde before that card.
I think it’s easy to overvalue Farewell in the meta. Yes it’s the best wipe in the game, but in most cases you have to draw it and it’s the only card that does what it does. so I don’t think it’s right to build/play around Farewell, whereas some players seem so scarred by their few experiences with the card that they can’t help but do so.
Moldervine Reclamation is quite good in my Dina aristocrats deck, but I agree, I'm not sure I'd run it if it didn't trigger Dina's gain/drain ability. However, 5 mana isn't that crazy in any Golgari aristocrats build where you can run Sakura-Tribe Elder and Viridian Emissary and the like. I always end up with more mana than I know what to do with when I run Dina.
had it in my grismold and just so many better cards to drop for a five drop. kept fighting to put it back but stalls out a turn when you need to start doinng stuff.
I also run it in Dina. So great.
8:48 I, too, love Search for Azcanta. But I’m just thinking about how this stacks up against Sylvan Library. Yes, Library never turns into a land, but it’s drawing the cards.
Library is almost equivalent to a brainstorm each turn for 1G, or a Sensei's Top activation each turn.
Much like those cards, having shuffle effects (fetchlands, ponder) makes it way better, but it's almost never bad.
Whoa, I love Boros Charm… it’s always amazing. 2 Mana board protection? That’s normally 3 mana. Ability to give anything double strike is insane. You can surprise kill opponents by giving another opponents creature double strike. -Boros Player
your guys meta sounds awful if boros charm does nothing 90% of the time.
not everyone should be running farewell. unless you like 3 hour long games lol
Farewell is great. 3h long games are often due to very low powered decks and/or a soft ban on combos.
Can't imagine a world where boros charm is becoming underwhelming
Grasp of Fate is literally the only O Ring effect I'll run. Exiling something from everyone means your opponents leave it alone so 2 other gross permanents stay exiled.
While I agree on Elspeth for most decks, she's an absolute unit in my Brago deck. My "Brago's Whacky Army" deck, which is all about creature ETB's that create creature tokens, can get six creatures off her every turn. Or do her -3, wipe the board of big creatures while keeping all mine, then hit with Brago and get another 3 soldiers off her.
Boros charm would still be good enough for my voltron deck right? Power level 7/8
Boros charm is still a good card. Most boardwipes still destroy also the double strike mode can be used on another person's creature too. I've commander damaged someone with another person's commander multiple times
Would highly recommend grabbing a copy of Afterlife Insurance from MKM when it comes out.
Might not get the magical christmas land numbers of Inkshield BUT it's only 2 mana and works in a LOT more situations AND draws you a card.
I replaced my Moldervine Reclamation with Species Specialist in my Mycotyrant deck because
1. It's slightly cheaper (in cost).
2. It's a creature so you can reanimate it
3. It's a "may" effect so you won't accidently draw your whole deck and die
I guess this really shows how the effectiveness of certain cards can depend a lot on the playgroup. The people I tend to play against don’t happen to run very many mass exile effects, so boros charm is much more effective there.
Inkshield is great. 1 card to prevent the entire table from attacking you while they try to play around it while you murder the table is great. Eh
Moldervine reclamation is great in chatter fang since any token generation including food or treasure will give more tokens.
I love Search for Azcanta in my Octavia deck. It's so not threatening and it is blue rampant growth with upside.
I think Inkshield is a meta call. I play it, and it wins games consistently, but it only saves you from large combats. If your meta has different win conditions, it won't often do a lot. I also run it in a deck that often does nothing, so holding up 5-10 open mana isn't a telegraph at all. It is a far more situational card than it might appear to be, but in those situations it can win you games.
Moldervine reclamation works well in my beledros witherbloom, you are already ramping to get to 7 mana, beledros lets you untap all your lands for 10 life, and you make a pest (sacrificial lambs) on each upkeep, just slap down a viscera seer or woe strider and you have a steady engine
A year ago, I might've disagreed on Elspeth, but I think now everything she does is just better done by The Eternal Wanderer if you deck just really really wants a 4WW planeswalker. Three 1/1s vs a single 2/2 double strike can be deck dependent, but Wanderer's protection and semi-wrath is just better, and you get the flickering-effect sprinkles on top.
Have to agree with all cards on this list except Boros charm. Normally I only run Boros charm in creature heavy decks that have effects when dealing combat damage (Medomai, Tivit, 90% of dragons etc). In those decks it's great because I can hold it as protection until I can generate an extra damage trigger that will give me a lot of value, then it's cast for double striking. Elspeth is a 6 mana austere command with only one option. Ink shield is a fog for 5 mana. If you're keeping up 5 mana in those colours it's super obvious and if you can afford to keep up 5 mana each turn then you're either really far ahead or really far behind and it's just dragging out the game.
Boros Charm still puts in work, and Inkshield is incredible. I have won a couple of games from the momentum change.
I can't imagine how Search for Azcanta could be better without becoming broken. Its 2 mana land ramp in blue that only takes a graveyard to activate and allows you to smooth out your draw until it comes online and fills the graveyard for you. Do you want a cherry on top?
Moldervine is an absolute staple in midpower GBx Aristocrats, love this in Sek'kuar when I skullclamp dorks, feed my Viscera Seer or Life//Death sac lands for more burst mana with Cryptolith Rite
I agree with everything except Boros Charm and Keeper of Fables. The utility it has for 2 mana instant speed is good. I have been blown out by 2 of the mode frequently enough. As a budget player that look for budget option replacement for Tymna, Dhalsim, Toski and Ohran Frostfang, it does a well enough job (some of those card are more budget friendly these days) but you can never have too much card draw
I feel most of the things said are "I played these cards in decks where they didn't belong and it didn't work".
Take for example Inkshield. I play Inkshield in decks where creating 60 tokens is better than redirecting 60 damage. If I'm holding mana up for Inkshield, then I probably have a Zulaport Cutthroat out and a sac outlet and I can insta-win from the tokens.
And the thing about holding mana up, it's not like you don't have any other cards or abilities. If I'm not casting Inkshield, then I'm probably activating my Castle of Ardenvale or casting my Anguished Unmaking to remove someone else's piece.
Or Elspeth. Yes, she is upticking just to chumpblock. But she chumpblocks for your other planeswalkers and for yourself as well! Or use the minus to take out a few tramplers. If you are playing the long game, stalling for time is good. And Elspeth is really good at stalling.
Throes of chaos? Great card to copy or get magecraft triggers.
Moldervine Reclamation? Usually 5 mana draw 7+ cards in a token/aristocrat strategy
Boros Charm? Use it in decks where you want the different modules, not just as a protection spell.
I do agree with Keeper of Fables or Dark Impostor, tho.
And THERE'S the reason Moldervine Reclamation is in 75000 decks vs Dark Prophecy's 21000.
One being $.50 and the other being $4.00 makes a huge difference for anyone on anything even vaguely resembling a budget.
Also fairly sure most people don't know Dark Prophecy actually exists since it only had a single printing.... 10 YEARS ago.
It depends a lot. Like if you play casually, all this cards are good or even great. Just high-mid or combi tables have problems nowadays but most people will find these cards useful. And of course, we got exile boardwipes but not a lot of them
Throes of chaos is actually super good in prosper decks and you gain a treasure which is like reducing the cost of
boros charm in feather could be kinda nice returnable double strike with a finishing amount of damage to a player or blanket protection
It has slapped hard in Feather for me, but that's because Feather rewards combat tricks.
Yeah the card is much better in Feather
Moldervine Reclamation puts in serious work in my Chatterfang deck. Every time I cast it I’m drawing tons of cards and skyrocketing my life total.
i still run elspeth in my ghired deck because it is a secret winota and jetmir deck. The plus 1 is so useful in my deck because I want a lot of non-human small bodies and the boardwipe will usually not hit any of my cards.
Don't let command zone hear you trashing ink shield it does work on there show
I play Boros Charm in a few decks and it’s won me several games. I’ve even had newer players ask to read the card because they’d never seen it. Keeper of Fables is in my Rin and Siri deck that hits with tons of tokens. I don’t play any of the others.
with Anzrag, the Quake-Mole. Boros Charm tends to be game ending. So ill keep my Boros Charm in my deck, tyvm. :)
Boris charm is amazing to sneak in gishath damage when someone can’t block or doesn’t block well.
Also moldervine reclamation is amazing in beledross tokens😂😂
see my first instinct for dark imposter would be to exile mr. Krenko, Mob Boss that way you 1) get him off the field, and 2) gain the ability to double your goblins, but when black doesn't have that much goblin generation you end up multiplying 0 goblins by 2 to stay with your total of 0 goblins. I totally agree that it underperforms.
I feel like usually people who play Krenko Mob Boss do so as commander which makes it hard to actually keep under the Imposter anyways since it looks continually at the cards it has in exile so as soon as they say “Alright move my commander to the command zone” you lose it
I play Inkshield in Raffine where it’s pretty common for me to also hold up a bunch of mana for instant speed draw, counter spells, and flash creatures. Also due to Raffines ability makes it a lot easier to justify firing it off early-ish rather than waiting. But yeah, I can see why it would under preform in general
throes of chaos is seen in some OTK decks where the only other 3 drops you have in your deck are the burn cards you're fishing for. very gimmicky tho.
Don't really agree with Boros charm, as it can help in 3 distinct cases. Protecting "all" permanents from being destroyed can be very useful, not only for creatures but for artifact/equipment
Moldervine rec is great when you have creatures and a SAC outlet. Jund aristocrats isnthe only place I've seen it work.
Moldervine Reclamation was great only once for me, when I cast it for free of a Rishkars Expertise after drawing 5 cards. I have cut it from every deck it was in as well.
Throes of chais has 1 interesting useage; you need to build your deck in a way were it always hits something specific (generally ramp or target removal) and make sure you have a way to get those lands back to hand or play.
Hold my beer. I will break Moldervine Reclamation. Have it in Thalia and the Gitrog Monster with aristocrats theme.
Moldervine Reclamation is one of the best cards in my Beledros Tokens/BigSpell deck:)
Mouldervine goes great in my Smeagol deck. I often have free lands lying about the place, and I sac a creature a turn at the minimum
Leyline binding is obviously only for 60 card or 5 color enchantress decks that can benefit from other synergies. So not sure why that is even talked about for general commander content.
I really disagree with the boros charm and inksheild. Its much more effective because even in personal playgroups its not like they remember every card in your deck. And as for the charm, there are plenty of boardwipe attempts that are just destroy, and 2 mana left open in boros is nothing.
“Green is not exactly the color of smashing through damage.” Ummm… say that again and think about it. What color has the most creatures with trample. Smashing through damage is exactly what green does. Craterhoof….
Fun thing about Throes of Chaos though.
It feels really good hitting Tibalt's Trickery since you get the free thing as TT resolves
Inkshield is garbage against Golgari Charm, to a hilarious extent - Actually, one time on Arena my opponent Inkshielded, but I had a Skullcrack and they prevented 0 damage and died
Using Boros charm to give someone's commander double strike when it's hitting one of your other opponents is hilarious and a memorable way to take someone out.
I have Boros Charm in my Feather deck, but it's a little better because I can keep reusing it. Otherwise, you're right, it won't be that great.
Yeahhh I think I can agree with everything else on the list except Inkshield. My play group is an aggro meta. And you mentioned they are going to get a “couple” of Inklings lol no. It’s going to me a lethal amount by the time you cast it. It can swing a game so hard in my opinion
I’ve rage quit with Dark Prophecy before. Good times with zombie loops.
Never been on elspeth and I dont understand how she ever was. 6 mana walker in a time where grave titans,consecrated sohinx, sepulchral primordials were the go to big creatures to have and wrath of god, day of judgement and damnation are your go to board wipes theres no mode on this card that looks worth. Make some tokens when commander was way splashier back then and even then there was better token makers. Some with your board wipe options. She is super cool walker so ig that might be part of why.
I would feel bad too if I held up mana for ink shield for three consecutive terms and didn't get to use it. You admitted that you weren't the person about to be attacked though. Timing is everything and had you timed it right it could have literally changed the game. I've never seen any shield not impact a game when it was cast. It's won several for me. Far more likely that it will be useful than for you to have that happen again.
Boros charm cmc is under the average casting cost to give your creatures indestructible. Sure we have clever concealment and other strong options, but anything modular has practicality in a commander game.
Double strike can end a game and 4 damage to spite a person is hilarious. All while evasively causing a board wipe to potentially be one sided.
Can’t say enough good things about Boros Charm.
Many of these "underimprovers" has really been winners for me, for years. Have to disagree this time.
I feel like elspeth has it's home in arcades, where you can throw her down on a big board and blow up all relevant blockers and keep literally everything including arcades. The fact that she can make tokens after is just a bonus.
Thought it was obvious that Throes of chaos will only work in niche decks…like a deck that benefits from casting spells/cascading
I do play moldervine reclamation in my Meren deck but I have to admit it would be the first or second cut if I added something new in. It's a great effect but the deck wants creatures with ETB's above all else so a 5 mana enchantment is a bit of an awkward fit.
Mia I got you … “good sleeves 👌🏻”
She choked 😂
Moldervine’s gotta go in Beledros Witherbloom and not much else probably? 😕
Can't agree on Elspeth. Have won games with it, and it has let me claw back from a lot of near-losses too.
I have seen Dark Imposter but never even considered it.
Binding is an amazing standard (and pioneer I think?) card. But even in 5C why am I not using Swords?
I’ve never been a big curse fan anyways and that one struck me as whatever.
Hmmm I think I still like Search but haven’t had a deck it fits in.
Hmmm still hot on Boros Charm as well.
Moldervine Reclamation as well. That card is real good I’ve never seen it stick without paying itself well off.
Throes of Chaos in the thumbnail however made me perk up because sooooooooo true. I used it in my Laelia the Blade Reforged. She works so well with repeated cascade (yes she gets a counter per card exiled for deep rules reasons; people in youtube comments who try to rules lawyer but are wrong) and she tried to play the lands she exiles so ones in hand are often overly redundant. And I had never once gotten in the looping Throes moment without feeling like I was just desperately scrabbling without pay off.
Inkshield seems from your own stories to be very “My playgroup knows each other and we know someone runs inkshield so we don’t run into it” which is a valid lens to affect opinions but feels weak as an entry.
Sun’s Champion I have absolutely seen run away with the game even in commander games last year.
Keeper of Fables didn’t even have a chance of making it into any of my decks. The one or more kills the cat. Especially as like Toski and Frostfang manawise aren’t more expensive or anything.
I agree with y’all on Elspeth. I have 4 copies sitting in storage boxes for all the reasons you stated. I use one copy for nostalgia in my cat/dog tokens matter deck
I don't know what kind of cEDH you are playing but Putting Boros Charm here is wild.
I think the bottom header didn't update to Moldervine Reclamation at the 12:00 mark
Inkshield is in my Teysa Karlov Deck. I had an comback and win the Game
Agree on Leyline Binding. Why bother with something that's susceptible to removal when Generous Gift and Stroke of Midnight exist?
Elspeths is neat in Thalisse Reverent Medium, and Planeswalker decks. Blockers and board wipes! (And tokens)!
I've come to view oblivion ring effects as both mediocre removal and protection.
Seems to me that this channel only evaluates cards on cedh level now, because elspeth, boros charm, inkshield, are really good cards that always overperform when i see them or use them
I use boros charm in my Nahiri forged in fury voltron deck. For that sweet sweet Instant speed double strike.
I agree wholeheartedly on moldervine I had it in my Thalia and the Gitrog deck used it and it was meh…. Cut it and will never think about it again.
Throes of chaos has one home and one home only. In an Ovika deck!
Okay hold on! If green isn’t the color for smashing through damage what the heck is?!
Inkshield has won every game ive seen it played in. Maybe its a playgroup meta thing but i cant fathom inshield being bad.
Hey Nerds, does "nerds" work in the coupon code section when checking out like it does for Command Zone?
It does for Dragon Shield, but you can use our link in the description for ordering at Card Kingdom!
Sometimes, they say some stupid shit. Anyone who thought 9 mana for a single targeted removal had potential is bad at magic. 9 mana cards win games.
Throes of Chaos is... all over the place.
It wants to be in something that cares about cascade...
AND discarding/playing lands from your graveyard...
AND has ways to reduce the cost.
MAYBE Averna at a stretch...?
elspeth is a bad boardwipe that can then make tokens every turn if she survives and demands an answer, its a decent trade off even if she is worse than other boardwipes
Funnily enough I generally get Dark Imposter to vastly overperform in my games, not necessarily because of it's ability having massive impact (though it can go off pretty hard in surprising ways sometimes) but because it suddenly becomes completely required by the rest of the group to remove it as a threat, without really making me a real target. Everyone is threatened by the fact that when it get's to my turn at 6+ mana, i have the capability of removing a threat, that is hard to interact with. And they generally want to use premium exile removal on it, rather than destroying it, because I generally run a ton of reanimate type cards with decks that have Dark Imposter. Just funny how different it works out, i look at it more as 3 mana, get rid of some premium removal of my real combo pieces, with a 6 mana no card beat stick attached + bonus.
Boros Charm does good work in a Feather deck.
Dark imposter has been out for about 12 years. It wasn't great initially either
Boros Charm would be a lot better if people played land destruction.
Two mana to give all your permanents - including lands - indestructible. How is that a "meh" card?
Wow holy smokes I hard disagree on Azcanta!
Search for Azcanta is amazing card selection. Hear me Beezy! It goes in combo/control!!!
The worst case scenario I have ever had for this card was I was drawing everything I wanted, but also in those games I’m drawing everything I wanted 😂
I’m curious as to what decks you were playing this in.
I was carrying it in a Mono U combo deck based around card advantage and letting no one else win until I go off.
I would say it’s like a power level 8. If I put super staples like cyclonic rift sol ring and rhystic in it could easily enter a 9
14:10
5 mana being too much to pay for such upside.
And in those colors too.
This is something that has to be answered if you have a board, which FYI, is what you are wanting to have.
You want this in reanimat decks so you are drawing and gaining life while doing your moves. Keeping that hand full and even drawing 2, 3, or 4 cards with each death.
Then there is the fact that once it hits the field your opponents need to talk care of it or they just helping you out when they kill you guys.
Boros Charm have one big thing that i live to use it - You can give the DS to other creatures, not only Yours ;) I really kill players with commander dmg. from enemy attacks with it ;P