Guy at my LGS cheated to win at least two tournaments before he was eventually banned, and was apparently known for fudging rolls even before that. He was also, unsurprisingly, a super strict rules lawyer who would argue with you about everything. I think about him whenever my friends and I have an argument about rules, and I’m reminded that this is just a silly game with plastic toys that I painted poorly.
@@Matwhoabsolutely lol That, and looking at a measurement where it's within a 16th one way or the other and deciding the outcome based on rule of cool
I gave someone line of sight to shoot when it was so questionable the other day. It was so close that it wasn’t worth arguing and it made the game much more fun as everyone went home happy
In my very first game I was playing this dude who was teaching me. And he "accidentally" forgot to put terrain in the middle of the board. It wasn't malicious though as it gave me a huge advantage. As I had a long range army and he did not. I think he wanted to ensure that I kept playing and wanted me to win my first game.
That was probably the point. It gives you, the newbie, an advantage, while also giving you a lesson you can appreciate later on the importance of terrain. Honestly that's brilliant.
@@budgierigarz my first game was against my uncle where I played his marines and he played his orks, he gave himself like 1 more squad than me bc he didn’t remember pts cost and hadn’t played in years, it was a quick game lol
You know what was super nice? When we could see our opponent's basic data sheets (model and weapon stats only) through our own app without having to pay for their codex. Cut out a lot of rules "errors."
the most common "cheating" I have run into in our local game store is a couple of people who intentionally withhold information about their armies. For example, I pulled Assasination in one game and asked my opponent which units have a character attached (I'm not familair with all armies) and he informed me "none currently on the map, only one in deep strike" So I tossed the secondary mission and moved on with my turn. Next turn I charge a unit and my opponent informed me they were being buffed by a character and I asked why he didnt disclose that last turn when I had Assassination and he responded that he had FOUR characters on the map last turn and that he misunderstood the question. 🤔It was a straight forward question and he intentionally did not answer honestly.
me neither. I do have a friend who measures distance for move like he should but then always places the models an extra inch to far forward. He is just sloppy, not doing it to cheat or on purpose to gain anything from it. And yes the dice are most of the time rigged against me too.
Right? My rolls are so bad, my opponent feels bad for me. I try to make up for it by playing really bad lists; my firstborn marines are getting lots of play.
@@jimmysmith2249 My marines are all firstborn SW, only Primaris in my SW collection is the new Ragnar model, i just had to get him. Other than that, my space wolves are the only army i have managed to win games with in 10 ed. That said, i can have games where i roll saves like i had god mode active one round and then roll all 1 om damage rolls... But its quit even when when we play, me and my friends we all have 1 excellent turn each game, and 2 okey, 2 really bad. =)
I used to accidentally play with a weighted die (It was supposed to be a display dice or something idk, whoever made it didn't care about it's weighting just more about the aesthetic), but it was actually skewed to rolling 1 more likely, and I didn't realize this for years
We had a guy during an 8th edition tournament sneak in some dice that had no 1s on them. He got caught on game 4 when his opponent became suspicious and watched his rolls like a hawk watches a field mouse. Opponent noticed and snagged his dice and saw it had two 6s.
At our house, if a die happens to roll out of an opponents sight the standard practice is to either leave it there and let them come around to see the roll, or just lift the die deliberately so the opponent can see you're not moving it. Dropped dice [like from a pile out of your hand] don't count, cocked dice get re-rolled, and dice that roll off the table don't count, *unless* you're feeling lucky then you can call 'Jumanji' before it stops and you keep whatever roll it lands on.
I refused to finish playing my final opponent mid game at my last event. We both agreed I had 8oc on a point in my movement phase, come the end of the turn he points out one of my guys is now 1mm off the objective. Word for word he said” I know we agreed earlier but it’s not my job to make sure your models are placed correctly.”
9:54 it's worth pointing out that targeting an exposed claw or spike is not only angle shooting, if said claw or spike sticks out over the model's base, it's also illegal and has been since the summer balance dataslate. overhanging bits of a model (vehicles (but not walkers) excluded) don't count towards whether they are within, wholly within, or not within a ruin/terrain. and visbility can't be drawn to or from them when shooting into or out of said terrain. so if your model's base is wholly within the terrain but a claw sticks outside over the base, the enemy has to be able to shoot INTO the terrain and can't draw line of sight to the claw. meaning if rules are 'windows closed' etc, the model straight up can't be targeted or shot
I came across a guy years ago that had a really good collection of Dark Eldar. Trouble is he didn't have a codex, or at least never had it with him. First time I played him I got suspicious because his rules seemed to change from turn to turn. I just shrugged it off. Second time his army simply countered whatever my army did. It was so blatant. I called him out and he got embarrassed. I'm not super competitive but cheating is just sad. It's just a miniature game. We play fluffy campaigns mostly so it's the journey rather destination. Thanks AT
Seeing as how I usually play with a few friends, I sometimes deliberately cheat when my rolls are insanely high and it starts causing issues in me powering through things. Most of my friends don't notice the fact that I sometimes go from 3+ to hits to 4+ to hits for no reason, or that I remind them that they have cover if my weapons ignore cover and so on. Usually because it's not fun to have a game where everything is going against you, including your own dice....
Who else remembers that story of a White Scars player who always deployed their entire force in reserve? And the counter that prevented then from deploying anything at all thus resulting in a loss.
From what I've been able to gather, there was no cheating or bad sportsmanship involved. Null deploy was a fairly common strategy in high level play at the time, and the WS player simply forgot infiltration was a thing. A judge was called to double check if he was on the spot boned, but once it was ruled as such, there was a civil gg, and they kept in contact even after the tournament. The entire spin about the Scars player being a toxic tryhard thwarted by a heroic T'au player originates from a clickbait Imgur post four years later.
I did that to a Knights player in 7th. He null deployed against my army of 30 tomb blades and 12 wraiths. I got first and had the 6" pre game move dynasty. Lined the entire board edge so he couldn't actually deploy. A TO that was also his buddy ruled that i had to move my models back so he could move on from reserves.
Two from the Far East: 1) the "Tokyo Roll," aka a dice drop, where the cheater carefully positions his dice bad side up in his palm, gets right over the tray, and quickly flips his hand to get the result he wants. 2) I've also occasionally had to argue "misinterpreted" rules, at which time my opponent suddenly can't understand me because "foreigners can't speak Japanese well." To be fair on this second one, sometime the Japanese and English versions of the same cards/missions vary wildly (some Leviathan missions could not be played due to differences in scoring), and with some games they're working with English books because there is no Japanese version. But it is also sometimes the case that my opponent was a WAAC jerkoff.
Half my troops these days no longer have proper base sizes, its real fun when I take all my necron warriors and have a third of them with bigger bases because they changed to a bigger base. If we still had template the bigger bases would be nicer, but honestly I could see people complaining because I am able to get more of them within rapid fire because of the smaller base. But at the end of the day, not my fault GW changed it, and I'm not going to take the time to go through every model and make sure it is using the current base size that they are using.
My friends and I definitely play a little fast and loose in that regard. My father has more points than he could ever need in one SM army, but so many are old metal minis (he's recently getting back in after a 20 year break) that between incorrect base sizes, the models being the wrong scale, and outdated loadouts, almost nothing is legal anymore. Bought the Leviathan box and Ultimate starter set to get me some nids, terrain, and rules, so that helps get some of his numbers up, but that doesn't help the 3k+ points of outdated models. Redoing the bases and handwaving the scaling issues as firstborn is possible, but incredibly tedious. Some models can't even be helped, such as a dread the size of a terminator, or a scout unit packing exclusively sniper rifles (only one is allowed per unit currently).
On the incorrect army list points, I once played a 1k Sons guy and wiped the floor with him which was very unexpected. After the game we checked his army list and it turned out he'd been playing with 400pts less than me! We had a rematch which resulted in a much closer game :D
Had a dude in Sigmar who kept spawning Beastmen off the board as part of their "ambush tactics" or some such. Very standard actual ruleset - outside 9" of enemies but within 6" of edge, etc. etc. However, our table is inset - he'd tuck in an extra ten people sometimes on the flat edge off the actual gameboard. Anytime anybody called him out on it, or hinted at how that's clearly not the intent of what is essentially the tableframe, he'd complain all about how ridiculous we're being. Just wasn't worth it, we lost a couple players because of that.
Back in 7th i ve heard someone that because landraider can transport, he gets them for free in the space marine demi company. Back in 7th you get, if you play the demi company formation, every dedicated transport (e.g. rhinos and razorbacks) was points free.
Sadly at my locals so many people do " Gotchas" it's not fun... and whenever I'm like " well I didn't know your unit could do that/ that that was your really good melee unit" they often say " well you CAN look up my faction to find out what they can do" I don't have the time or energy to look up every single unit in a faction, learn how that faction plays and every stratagem so I can have fun... that turns it into work
Yup, I feel that. Ran into a community like that once; a bunch of competitive players back in 7th ed who used gotchas as their main mode of winning. Their secondary mode was arguing everything their opponent does just to get their way. What a bunch of douches.
"You can look up my faction." I suppose it's technically possible, but it's also prohibitively expensive. As if acquiring a sufficiently sized army wasn't expensive enough, let's demand new players drop half their investment again on codices for armies that don't play, just in case today's LGS one-off happens to be sweaty. I get it's not technically cheating, but it would be nice if stores would ban dickheads.
Only major cheating ive seen personally was whem it came to rules amd datasheets. In 9th, it was "oh my unit can actually do xyz even though its not on their rules." This edition its been a little bit of shady dice rolls and flubbying on their datasheets, such as claiming a unit has a 4+ invul save.... when its really a 4+ FNP on mortal wounds.
Messing with the CP counter can make a big difference too. "Oh i forget to add my cp at the start of the turn so i have enough to interrupt you" for example
Using the basesize as the model was sold with wasnt modeling for advantage. GW ruled that it was ok but it had some unfortunate bugs like 3-line-close-combat back in 9th (or even 8th?). With 10th editions rules they fixed it
Most of my terminators and tactical marines (as well as my sisters) are on 25mm bases because that's what they came with. If GW wants to send me new bases then maybe I'll rebase them. But I play so infrequently and only friendly games so no one cares.
That -1CP Stratagem thing was a source of a lot of confusion in my area. Some interpreted it as a free overwatch or reroll for a second unit. Others said it was -1 to only the 2CP Battle Tactics. It was a mess. 🙈 Other than confusion about rules and terrain, I haven't seen any blatant cheating like mis-measuring or hiding dice rolls. Thankfully.
In their defense, they changed it mid-season and not everyone uses the 40K app or is 100% up to date with changes. That's why I feel very guilty about springing that on most people and I always ask my opponent which variant they want before the match.
when i used to frequent a hobby shop and play with the group there, probably 1 in 10 were honest players who wanted fair games, everyone else was just there to get a win, no matter the cost, the shop closed down, big cost,
oh, forgot, the guy at the GW store(a red shirt) one town over, he is famed for being a cheat, the podcast CANHAMMER regularly talks about the guy, as he is still going to every tourney in Ontario, he used to have a youtube channel where he would post battle reports,
Fortunately, I've only come up against one major cheater, but it was a doozy. So we are playing in this casual league and I'm running my Kroot army (back in 9th before we had real rules). He was running Sisters and we got to chatting before the game. He started by bragging about how he'd downed this meta Dreadknight army with all his miracle meltas in the previous game. I told him that he'd probably have an issue with my army as I was all Kroot and didn't have anything big. He said "oh I know, I caught one of your previous games" then proceeded to pull out a list without a single melta and leaded to the brim with flamers. During the game, he tried to full shoot his rapid fire weapons at max distance, insisting it was a special sisters rule. When I demanded to see the rule, he caved and didn't even pretend to look, just got a "oh, I guess I must have misremembered." He tried to Deep Strike turn 1, and was constantly rolling dice whenever I turned away for a moment. Despite all that I was keeping the game very close and on turn 3, I was taking a bunch of Ld checks for decimated units. We were short on time, so I was rolling them fast when as soon as a dice left my hand I realized it was for a key unit and said "shit, I CP pass that one" after a few more seconds the dice stopped rolling across the table and came up a fail, which he then proceeded to insist was that actual result. This is a very debatable issue I should have been allowed to do that or not, but I'd had enough of his BS at this point and just called a judge to resolve it. Since it was a casual event, the judge sided with me, and the guy threw a temper tantrum that would have put my 6 year old to shame. Not wanting to deal with it, the judge relented and said "the official stance in the GW rulebook is to roll of when something can't be determined, so we're going to do that.) He immediately agreed, I also did begrudgingly since the judge had already sided with me. I won the die roll and the guy flipped his shit again, yelling at the judge and me saying we were poisoning the hobby and all kinds of crazy stuff before scooping up his models because he "refused to play with someone like me". The guy was subsequently banned from the store. I returned home to a bunch of angry FB DM's (as that's how we organized the games) and immediately blocked him. There are just some people in the world that I think I'll never be able to understand.
This is why I hate competitive warhammer. You do your best to play as clean as possible but your opponent goes "yeah this unit moves 12", "this unit can activate this", "Yes my strategem or rule can do this. Trust me I am a pro". You go check this after your defeat and you realize none of this was valid. You call this at the competitors or organizers and they start throwing trash out you because you are "ruining" their community or one victory won't take you anywhere.
@@jacket2848 my best games have been casual with friends. Were we learn about each others faction from gameplay to lore. We remind ourselves from Oath targets, tokens, rules and strategies. If one loses or wins it doesn't matter because we had fun. But boi, competive? Another story of grown manchilds running tantrums because I did a 6.0001" movement and thus I am cheater. But sure, my opponent can surely use a strat on a unit that cannot be used on, sure my opponent can modify his weapon strength to go from 4s staright to 2s. Sure, I can call them for cheating but I get a "No bro, you cheated on doing a 6.000001 movement". I really don't get the tryhard mentality on a toy game...but it is what it is on my city :/
The bit about „modelling for benefit“ reminded me of the ‚hunkered down Riptides‘ back in 8th edition. Back then, at least at the tournaments I went to, whenever you encountered a T‘au Riptide, 99.9% of the time it was like squatting or sitting on his behind. And more then once the question came up, if all leg parts were used in the construction. Except for mine… I was getting raised eyebrows because I build it flying superman style gun pointing forward. Least to say I never saw the upper parts of the score boards. 😂
The old metal biovore models that are basically an ork with a cannon out of his back really have me feeling like I need to get another new one, so I can have all three be the same size. I wish I could share images on here, because it's actually silly how small he is compared to the spider tank sculpt they sell now
I had a guy not using the Sisters miracle dice rule correctly and was using them more so that he should have. That is instead of one miracle dice per one unit per phase. He was dumping several 4+ miracle dice into the damage of his damage amounts during an event at my LGS. I had trusted him to be playing properly. I noticed that this is seemed insane he was able to constantly almost max out his damage rolls each turn. So I checked the rules and brought it up to him and soon after we ended the game. He dropped out of the event shortly after. Idk if he was cheating per se or was just completely playing it wrong.
@ well in any case I decided to play against him again recently to give him the benefit of the doubt. He was practicing for a local GT and already had the board terrian set up from one of the selections from the GT up and on the table. It ended up being guard tanks versus sisters Tanks. Everything was at a stand still until turn three when he destroyed two Leman Russ’s and a Rogal Dorn all in one go and then in my next T4 movement phase, he destroyed another Leman Russ with overwatch. I tried to watch his rules and dice rolls but his dice were confusing because they were very cluttered with cards iconography and symbols on them so it’s hard to see what he was actually rolling. As soon as he was able to bite into any of my tanks, they would just get immediately destroyed. So all I can say is he actually had really good rolls, The sisters Stat line and abilities are just that overbearing and/or I picked the worse list to play against him. I needless to say, I told him that at least next time he needs to not have the terrain on the board yet, and that was my mistake, not having him select a different terrain type because he more than likely had been practicing on that one particular terrain set up for a while and that straight up his army/faction wasn’t fun to play against in the slightest. I doubt I’ll play sisters again until after they are nerfed.
I've played a 2k game with a knight player who had a whole 400 point knight in reserves. Even though he had 2k points already on the board from the start of the game. I was new to the game and didn't find out until afterwards when I counted the models he had. Dude was 400 points over in what was meant to be a nice easy intro game.
I always ask to measure to and from the models base and not their cool and scenic models. After all it make it easier to judge line of sight, gives creative freedom for models and the idea that i can shoot from my Spindly bits and wings feels so cheeky and stupid...
I went to a beginners tournament where some guy cheated like crazy with nids, he had the codex but I never thought to bring it up cause it was the last game of the day
He also gave himself more movement on basically every one of his bugs and added wounds/sv characteristics Big one was he claimed that if he takes a wound he gets +1 attack on his huge tyrannofex gun
I've seen almost all of these except I don't think I've ever played a game where loaded dice were involved. One interesting wrinkle with the cards is that I've seen some people shuffle discarded cards back into the deck, which AFAIK isn't correct- a discarded or scored objective shouldn't be available to be drawn again. Usually it won't make much difference and I don't think I've ever seen someone doing it draw a card for a second time, but it's something to be aware of.
Oh wait the biggest cheats are popping stratagems that can only be pop in command phase and popping it in charge phase cause they know all the info they shouldn't know before like charge
I only play casually, and will cheat constantly in my opponent’s favor just to make the games more interesting. (Oh no I failed the save, while looking at a pass)
The one time I remember someone cheating me badly in a game was when a dice rolled over close to where he had his codex open, landed on a six, and he slid his codex over the dice and then contested that it counted because it "rolled under his book and might have been moved when he lifted his codex." Never played with that guy again.
This is why i physically write everything that happens in my binder it’s gotten silly big but it’s hard to cheat or be accused of it when you have a physical record of everything you have e done
12:50 This is one place where I think Privateer Press got it right with WarmaHordes: depending on a model/unit's size classification, regardless of how it is positioned on the base, there is a static area that is considered 'visible'. It might be 2" above the base on some models, it might be 4" above on larger ones, but it's static and fair and you get what you expect.
Ive played against of a couple of cheaters. The most recent one played chaos and just kept rerolling dice. Eg would roll a hit roll and fail then would say oops that was the darkpac then reroll the hit roll. Kept doing this to throw me off. Or if a dice landed cocked if it was a good number they would keep it. If a bad number they rerolled
A recent one I've seen occurring more at higher level play will be using a high number of attacks to burn you're opponents clock time, by switching the clock to their time for saving throws before they even have time to verify the number of wounds.
People need to remember this is still a game where grown men play pretend general with plastic toys. So unless actual stakes are involved, i.e tournaments, just play honestly and don’t be a sore loser
This hobby is about creativity. As I see it we are telling a story. It shouldn’t be about the players, it should be about creating a narrative of an event. “I kill your model” is way more lame than “Character X has slain Character Z”. We don’t really exist in the world, we are the hidden hands of fate. This view and good sportsmanship helps remove EGO and ego is a source of so many of the worlds problems. Let’s create amazing stories together not fight each other.
I was accused of cheating for not fully understanding the rules. And yet he never told me not to pick up my entire squad of stormboyz from 1 railgun shot...
I think I spent maybe 3 months balancing a single type of dice that I create. I do non standard shapes likes kegs or coke bottles, or bolter bullets. So making sure they land on each side equally is time consuming and one hell of a math challenge.
I’ve seen people desperately asking to change their secondaries as well. It’s painful when the game is so close and you can see your oooo se t is purely Looking at scoreboard seeing how they can cherry pick secondaries to enable them to beat you rather than just playing the game
Back in April of this year a guy at the Fallscon RTT threatened to punch his opponent while the TO was at the other end of the game area. His opponent didn't say anything until after the tournament was over, and that guy had "won".
I had a friend that did exactly the same as mentioned in the "Slow Play" part, at turn 3 (or even sooner) he always find an excuse to end the game (Imperial Fist are no match for a Grey Knights+Sororitas Inquisitorial army i suppose). BTW thanks for the link for the Tabletop Titans Store, i like that is so easy to get in the box again. Keep it up !
“Over measuring” can be assessed for intention quickly. Looking down, holding a tape measure up, to draw the line of where the point rests, creates a point beyond the exact distance. If you suspect your opponent is over measuring innocently, hand them a movement stick, if they’re still over measuring, then it’s not innocent.
I oftentimes find myself doing the opposite of many of these. I tend to forget rules that advantage me, and my customized Russes are wider than a regular Russ, to where I had to paint markers on them to indicate “true width”.
For table set up, me and my buddy will setup our deployment zone however we would like but then we will both mess with the mid zone until we are both satisfied with how it comes out
"Oops! 10th edition has been out forever, and this is a tournament so i should be up on the rules, but im gonna play it 9th edition Orks and play dumb when called out." Blatant cheating absolutely happens.
Being forced to go 50-70 points short can break one too. Not having wargear or being able to add one individual mini to a squad for a set cost has the majority of lists either short or over.
Not seen cheating. Seen a lot of misplays. Heck I've misplayed. It does bother me though when I'm playing someone, and I discover someone else has convinced them a play against them was legit, they try same play vs me, I question it, we look it up, and bingo they were being blagged. I think, as long as your polite, its okay to question and be questioned about rules. Everyone just wants clarity.
People proxying special weapons that suddenly morph into different special weapons depending upon what kind of model is in range. Apparently plasmas have a melta mode when a tank moves in close. 😮
While not cheating per se, I find it incredibly irritating when your opponent interjects themselves into your turn while you are deliberating. For example, “Do you want to use [Strategem]?” or just interrupting your train of thought.
Last person I know of that cheats that I played against had been menacing kids by fiddling points costs, unit management and general army building rules as well as the usual slightly extra movement and adding wounds so generally taking advantage of the fact that they didn't know better played an "anything goes" apocalypse scale game in a very public way, hyping it up for everyone to come and see how good he is. So the rules were bring everything you have as long as they could reasonably canonically work together it's all good you can field it. I've known this guy from school and he's grown into a massive douche, gatekeeping and spoiling any hobby for literal children so I figured I would field my chaos army... Including allied guard... And knights... And titans. Now bear in mind he had bigged himself up in the weeks leading up, going on a massive winning streak by using overwhelming army lists so when he started setting up he was confident. I dropped a reaver. He added guilliman so I countered with Magnus. Calgar? Son, I've got all of the chaos champions here, plus 10 baneblades, did I mention 650 guardsmen to go with that, that's a nice dreadnought you have here's my 20 hellbrutes... Now these aren't all official models they're 3d printed especially super heavys but they're all fully painted, I work on a single unit at a time to not have a pile of shame but the agreement was "everything" and it had been made clear that I was going to get stomped. My turn 2 shooting phase resulted in them rage quitting because when the combined shooting of 10 baneblades and a reaver apparently couldn't take down a troop transport (bear in mind I had no illusions of losing because I outnumbered him probably 5 to 1 and had counters to everything) I asked to see the datasheet, showed that actually transports don't gain the wounds of occupants (something he had claimed against others), damage is permanent (he had claimed that it regains all wounds at the start of his turn) and that every model in an exploding vehicle are at risk of being killed when they have to disembark, I offered the choice that they could stay inside and die if he wanted though but the destroyed vehicle doesn't do anything other than provide cover. I knew when he was posturing about our massive game I couldn't possibly lose because I have so many minis that I printed for display of just for fun and there wasn't any reason for me to personally go all out like that but I'd seen all the complaints about him too and people got to see how he reacts on the other side of it which was not very well. Oddly he doesn't cheat half as much now that people know they can ask to see rules but at the same time the amount of people willing to play against him has dwindled since seeing him flip out when he's not in a winning position. The dude had it coming and didn't even have the grace to accept it when he was put in the same position.
Generous movement is something i always call out. I have a friend whos constantly measuring at an angle which in turn gives him an extra 1/2" or more depending on the length of the movement. Remember a²+b²=c²
I had an accidental cheating issue in one of my first games ever when I was still learning, myself being the culprit… it was in the crusade campaign a couple of buddies of mine were playing through (so it mattered a bit more to the overall campaign). it was on me for not referencing the core book and going off what I thought was my good memory. It was with the overwatch stratagem, forgetting the 6 to hit is ‘unmodified.’ So yeah my overwatching forgefiend with warpsmith was unintentionally getting the +1 to hit on overwatches which I learned after the fact was not correct. Buddy I was playing against didn’t realize the mistake but I did let him know after the game, when I realized, of my mistake and owned up to it since it significantly affected the outcome. We agreed to calling it a null match. I reference the rules a lot more to make sure that doesn’t happen again 😅
Any competitive event should not allow outside dice to be used as there is zero dice security at them and I guarantee none of the event organizers have dice weight measurement tools like those we use on the Craps table to verify casino dice. Because there is money involved in these tournaments it is akin to the casino world; they should provide each player with a sealed dice set at the start of the tournament and signed in/out for multi day tournaments. I went to a gt and 3 out of 5 games, my opponents dice rolls were 80% being 5+.
@@Marinealver not really, some armies only need 3+'s for the majority of their dice rolls to be effective while others need 4 or 5+. Doesnt solve any dice security issues with this suggestion.
Had a guy back in 5th edition that said a couldn't see his marine as in real life the model would be squatting down for cover. Shook my head and said okay and let it slide, really couldn't believe he said that. I used the same argument against him in the next turn and had a smile while I did it. Won the game so could be a lesson there.
Sloppy movement is by far the biggest problem I see at tournaments, and its sometimes hard to correct on the spot. I've started premeasuring distances for any of my opponents important moves if i notice them being sloppy early.
When I was a newer player, I would make move mistakes A LOT, giving myself an extra inch or so. Not intentional, still not cool, but Being honest and cool with fixing it makes a world of difference in the area of nuance and enjoyment
I had one game recently, first time going against chaos knights, or knights of any kind. Didnt wanna get blown off the table immediately, so I brought an extra tank. My opponent won anyway, but got really mad that I brought extra firepower to help against his knights.
One I see a lot is rules that half damage and FNP rolls. I’ve seen people half the saving rolls and then double half the FNP rolls. So if your opponent fails 4 dice and 2 D each they remove 2 and then remove 1 dice for FNP as well
I love having autism and remembering all the numbers. We've been recently playing 1500 pt 3 player games and I've remembered almost every datasheet stats by now when we play
Hey could someone help me out with line of sight rules? Do vehicles obstruct line of sight for units behind them? Logically it makes sense but I’ve heard tournaments say that units are invisible for line of sight purposes, and don’t obstruct it.
From the few casual games I've played with my buddies, we've always ruled that if you get down to the models level and can't see the other model, then your model can't see the other guys. Something ive seen in a lot of other tabletop battle reports too
Once played a guy that kept a mouse pad at the bottom of his dice tray, not sure how sketchy it actually was, but it felt like he got a lot of good rolls with the dice stopping early on it.
The flaw in the game design that weighted dice exploits...is higher rolls being more favored in most aspects (phases) of gameplay. If GW reworked the dice rolling system so that defensive rolls were more favorable rolling lower [3-] and offensive rolls were more favorable rolling higher [4+], then a fair opponent should have no problem using the same dice set for both offensive and defensive rolls.
I think the modelling for advantage thing can be easily fix. Use the siluete system from infinity, every model has a assigned size that its always gonna be , no matter how the mini is modeled irl
This. I don't play 10th but in 9th I played Harlequins (both before and after their totally broken codex). They have a lot of special rules and stratagems that are hard gotchas if your opponent doesn't know about them. I would always try to explain what my army could do, and more than half the time people would stop me and tell me they didn't care. A sizeable number of those same people would then complain when they found out my entire army could advance, fall back and charge, or ignore terrain when moving, or when I tried to use any of the weird movement strats.
Question for anyone who wants to answer but if I have a ork war boss in a squad of nobz, would the war boss get effected by his ability might is right and get +1 to hit in melee since he’s technically apart of the unit of Nobz since he joined?
yes, because it says "Each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack" and the Warboss is a model in that unit when attached as a leader. The warboss will also benefit from the Nobz "Da Boss' Ladz" ability if someone were to try and attack him with Precision.
Have met people who drag on with their green tides. Taking 1 hour to move their army... Also met a space marine player who tried to move his mini further than his advance roll showed.
I've played a lot of people who have some amazing or crazy kit bashes so in terms of "angle shooting" I whole heartedly request a gentleman's agreement that if you can see the base or the main hull then it's able to be shot. Using cheeky "oh his sword is out so he will shoot" just doesn't sit well with me.
Cheating/bad sportsmanship at a "friendly event" basically made me quit the game back in 5th. A guy tried to claim a cover save from area terrain for his vehicle that did not have 50% of its hull covered by TLoS (it had zero % covered, it was just partially in the area). I explained that vehicles need their hull to be actually physically obscured to gain cover saves. He said "well that's just how I've always played it." I quickly reference the unambiguously-written rule (a rarity for GW in the era). He says it doesn't apply for *reasons*. I offer to call over a rules judge. He says "just let me have it", becoming louder and his face beginning to flush. I generously offer to roll off for it, he gets fully red faced and says "no just let me have it." At this point I can tell I'm being bullied so I just concede, but then he screams at me that I can't concede we need to finish the game. Just pure unadulterated toddler behavior from this dude because I won't just let him cheat me. I don't even remember how it was finally resolved, but I was supposed to leave my army out for display for paint judging after that round but I just left it packed up and cooled off outside because I honestly wanted to fist fight this fucker. This experience was so bad I basically stopped wargaming entirely except with my close friends because I did not want to risk going through anything similar like this again. I don't know if people still experience this, but this was one of my big pet peeves as a competitive player, casual league and tournament organizer for 40k in 5th ed: people who tried to use social engineering to bully their way into advantages like this. In the events that I organized I pretty quickly sized dudes like this up and squashed them. They either started playing fair or I made them leave. This behavior was *worse* however at "friendly" events because there was a stronger social expectation to not argue because it's "just for fun."
„If you would disqualify everyone that plays rules wrongly in their own favor, only players that did nothing would win.“ That is what a TO said to me once. This means its better not knowing your own rules. So many top players actually do not read/understand their rules correctly to get into the position where they can basically cheat legally. Its a pest, rotting all competitive play. And it needs to stop! You play something wrong in your favor = disqualification!
My personal peeve - the faction dice sets GW sell. They seem to replace 1s and 6s with stupid symbols, and it isnt always clear which is which. When I glance at my opponents rolls, I want to be able to inderstand what they have rolled quickly. Every time someone pulls out a set I want to ask them not to use them, but it just feels really petty.
I used to play X-Wing semi-competitively, and I don't miss these discussions on cheating. Warhammer seems like a nightmare, considering how many rules and codexes there are, and how loosely movement and LoS are played. One pet peeve of mine that I think falls under poor sportsmanship is when an opponent tries to rush you, or is being generally argumentative and aggressive. Or when they're outwardly mad and frustrated if they're loosing the game, or if the dice go against them - like, don't be mad at me if I roll well and you don't, you choose to play a dice game, guy. This used to bother me a lot more when I was younger and more timid, but lots of more experienced players will act this way against young or inexperienced people. Most of the time, I think it's unintentional, but I've definitely seen some people do it as a strategy to tilt their opponents. It makes playing the game not fun, even if it may be a competitive environment, we're still just pushing plastic models on a table, don't take it so seriously.
The only one I've ran into was my first time against Chaos Knights. I didn't know the army and he gave himself a 5+ invuln on shooting and melee. I didn't learn they lose it in melee until quite a bit later. To be honest, I kind of think the knights need it for both, but this was one of my first RTT's and that's just not how the army works. Then, not cheating, but first time I played Votann he did not explain his rules - there was a bunch of gotcha's from that. Then he was also very quick to put the time back on me, and never once take back for himself... it's 'okay' and now I'm way better equipped for competitive play, but it was definitely a feels bad at the time.
As a Tyranid player, sometimes I'll eat an opponents model when he isn't looking and refuse to acknowledge anything was there.
Tyranids eat whole planets, so you should go all in and eat the entire table.
Eat the Terain to get Line of sight
Consume drop-pod soda can.
I've had nightmares about this.
Well now I should demand my opponent proxies all their models with different coloured gummy bears sitting gently on appropriately sized bases. 🤣
He doesn't sleep. He's not human. It's the only explanation for how often these videos get out.
He’s a great favourite.
efficient video production technique and automated, scheduled posting
@@hahaureadmynameY'would think, but some things he uploads are like, just minutes behind official GW public updates
@ they're not mutually exclusive
If it were anyone else, I'd say he's an AI.
Guy at my LGS cheated to win at least two tournaments before he was eventually banned, and was apparently known for fudging rolls even before that. He was also, unsurprisingly, a super strict rules lawyer who would argue with you about everything.
I think about him whenever my friends and I have an argument about rules, and I’m reminded that this is just a silly game with plastic toys that I painted poorly.
The most fun I have playing this game is with friends who don't see the nuances of every single rule. 'Sounds fair' has been our beerhammer trope.
@@Matwhoabsolutely lol
That, and looking at a measurement where it's within a 16th one way or the other and deciding the outcome based on rule of cool
I gave someone line of sight to shoot when it was so questionable the other day. It was so close that it wasn’t worth arguing and it made the game much more fun as everyone went home happy
Not true
I think you did a good paint job
@@Matwho "oh, it is supposed to work that way..."
"your way was cooler"
It's a game, if something rad happens, it's way more fun to throw dice for it
In my very first game I was playing this dude who was teaching me. And he "accidentally" forgot to put terrain in the middle of the board. It wasn't malicious though as it gave me a huge advantage. As I had a long range army and he did not.
I think he wanted to ensure that I kept playing and wanted me to win my first game.
"First taste of plastic crack victory is free. You pay for the next." 😂
That was probably the point. It gives you, the newbie, an advantage, while also giving you a lesson you can appreciate later on the importance of terrain. Honestly that's brilliant.
As a Game Store employee, i can say intentionaly losing games without make it obvious is a useful and subtile art ;-)
@@budgierigarz my first game was against my uncle where I played his marines and he played his orks, he gave himself like 1 more squad than me bc he didn’t remember pts cost and hadn’t played in years, it was a quick game lol
@@enricocarlini5363It really is.
You know what was super nice? When we could see our opponent's basic data sheets (model and weapon stats only) through our own app without having to pay for their codex. Cut out a lot of rules "errors."
Wahapedia, my friend.
FOR DA WAAAAAAA-hapedia
@@jimmysmith2249TYSM!!! I never knew there was a free way to
the most common "cheating" I have run into in our local game store is a couple of people who intentionally withhold information about their armies. For example, I pulled Assasination in one game and asked my opponent which units have a character attached (I'm not familair with all armies) and he informed me "none currently on the map, only one in deep strike" So I tossed the secondary mission and moved on with my turn. Next turn I charge a unit and my opponent informed me they were being buffed by a character and I asked why he didnt disclose that last turn when I had Assassination and he responded that he had FOUR characters on the map last turn and that he misunderstood the question. 🤔It was a straight forward question and he intentionally did not answer honestly.
A great reason to pick up your models, and tell the guy to have a lot of fun with future opponents
I've never had to deal with cheating, my own terrible dice rolls always ensure the enemy will be victorious every time.
me neither. I do have a friend who measures distance for move like he should but then always places the models an extra inch to far forward. He is just sloppy, not doing it to cheat or on purpose to gain anything from it. And yes the dice are most of the time rigged against me too.
Right? My rolls are so bad, my opponent feels bad for me.
I try to make up for it by playing really bad lists; my firstborn marines are getting lots of play.
@@Brissebrajan he us a cheater :)
@@jimmysmith2249 My marines are all firstborn SW, only Primaris in my SW collection is the new Ragnar model, i just had to get him. Other than that, my space wolves are the only army i have managed to win games with in 10 ed.
That said, i can have games where i roll saves like i had god mode active one round and then roll all 1 om damage rolls...
But its quit even when when we play, me and my friends we all have 1 excellent turn each game, and 2 okey, 2 really bad. =)
Weighted dice. But weighted wrong.
I used to accidentally play with a weighted die (It was supposed to be a display dice or something idk, whoever made it didn't care about it's weighting just more about the aesthetic), but it was actually skewed to rolling 1 more likely, and I didn't realize this for years
Get more of those and start a Lamenters army
Other people cheat to WIN against friends? I cheat against friends so I LOSE, that way he takes his trash list to the tournament. We are not the same
What are friends for?
Passive aggressive trolling is the best kind of friendship. 🤣
Best friend material right there. Keep up the good work
We had a guy during an 8th edition tournament sneak in some dice that had no 1s on them. He got caught on game 4 when his opponent became suspicious and watched his rolls like a hawk watches a field mouse. Opponent noticed and snagged his dice and saw it had two 6s.
I had a friend so that in d&d, had a d6 with only 5s and he used it for 2 sessions before the dm noticed
@@alexthefirefoxIn warhammer, it is bad. In d&d, it is good (until the dm decides to do it also).
@@jimmysmith2249for dnd I have a d20 that has 4 1s and 4 20s lol
At our house, if a die happens to roll out of an opponents sight the standard practice is to either leave it there and let them come around to see the roll, or just lift the die deliberately so the opponent can see you're not moving it. Dropped dice [like from a pile out of your hand] don't count, cocked dice get re-rolled, and dice that roll off the table don't count, *unless* you're feeling lucky then you can call 'Jumanji' before it stops and you keep whatever roll it lands on.
Those are some fun house rules
I like that jumanji rule.
Is shadow boxing your opponent count as cheating?
Shadow boxing?
The nails they bite.
No, doing push ups to assert dominance isn't either.
Go nuts, I have no shooting units
What about using a piece of real skull as tactical rock? No comment of wether it’s mines or not.
I refused to finish playing my final opponent mid game at my last event. We both agreed I had 8oc on a point in my movement phase, come the end of the turn he points out one of my guys is now 1mm off the objective. Word for word he said” I know we agreed earlier but it’s not my job to make sure your models are placed correctly.”
1mm😂 I'm glad we use inches here😂 got some room to work with😅
Inch Pinching is one way to ensure I don't play another game with them again.
i've seen that gladiator movement of 10" & more at least 5 times by now, I'm glad the auspex cinematic universe has reoccurring characters.
Haha, I do quite like that one to illustrate the point when it comes up :D
@@auspextacticsIf it is perfect, why change it?
*Nine* examples of *cheating* ?
The Architect of Fate is involved
The changer of ways after he does, in fact, change the ways
9:54 it's worth pointing out that targeting an exposed claw or spike is not only angle shooting, if said claw or spike sticks out over the model's base, it's also illegal and has been since the summer balance dataslate.
overhanging bits of a model (vehicles (but not walkers) excluded) don't count towards whether they are within, wholly within, or not within a ruin/terrain. and visbility can't be drawn to or from them when shooting into or out of said terrain.
so if your model's base is wholly within the terrain but a claw sticks outside over the base, the enemy has to be able to shoot INTO the terrain and can't draw line of sight to the claw.
meaning if rules are 'windows closed' etc, the model straight up can't be targeted or shot
That is a good point. And one I’ve seen argued in various battles.
I came across a guy years ago that had a really good collection of Dark Eldar. Trouble is he didn't have a codex, or at least never had it with him.
First time I played him I got suspicious because his rules seemed to change from turn to turn. I just shrugged it off.
Second time his army simply countered whatever my army did. It was so blatant. I called him out and he got embarrassed.
I'm not super competitive but cheating is just sad. It's just a miniature game.
We play fluffy campaigns mostly so it's the journey rather destination.
Thanks AT
Seeing as how I usually play with a few friends, I sometimes deliberately cheat when my rolls are insanely high and it starts causing issues in me powering through things.
Most of my friends don't notice the fact that I sometimes go from 3+ to hits to 4+ to hits for no reason, or that I remind them that they have cover if my weapons ignore cover and so on.
Usually because it's not fun to have a game where everything is going against you, including your own dice....
You should run d&d.
Who else remembers that story of a White Scars player who always deployed their entire force in reserve?
And the counter that prevented then from deploying anything at all thus resulting in a loss.
From what I've been able to gather, there was no cheating or bad sportsmanship involved. Null deploy was a fairly common strategy in high level play at the time, and the WS player simply forgot infiltration was a thing. A judge was called to double check if he was on the spot boned, but once it was ruled as such, there was a civil gg, and they kept in contact even after the tournament. The entire spin about the Scars player being a toxic tryhard thwarted by a heroic T'au player originates from a clickbait Imgur post four years later.
I did that to a Knights player in 7th. He null deployed against my army of 30 tomb blades and 12 wraiths. I got first and had the 6" pre game move dynasty. Lined the entire board edge so he couldn't actually deploy.
A TO that was also his buddy ruled that i had to move my models back so he could move on from reserves.
Two from the Far East: 1) the "Tokyo Roll," aka a dice drop, where the cheater carefully positions his dice bad side up in his palm, gets right over the tray, and quickly flips his hand to get the result he wants. 2) I've also occasionally had to argue "misinterpreted" rules, at which time my opponent suddenly can't understand me because "foreigners can't speak Japanese well." To be fair on this second one, sometime the Japanese and English versions of the same cards/missions vary wildly (some Leviathan missions could not be played due to differences in scoring), and with some games they're working with English books because there is no Japanese version. But it is also sometimes the case that my opponent was a WAAC jerkoff.
Half my troops these days no longer have proper base sizes, its real fun when I take all my necron warriors and have a third of them with bigger bases because they changed to a bigger base. If we still had template the bigger bases would be nicer, but honestly I could see people complaining because I am able to get more of them within rapid fire because of the smaller base. But at the end of the day, not my fault GW changed it, and I'm not going to take the time to go through every model and make sure it is using the current base size that they are using.
My friends and I definitely play a little fast and loose in that regard. My father has more points than he could ever need in one SM army, but so many are old metal minis (he's recently getting back in after a 20 year break) that between incorrect base sizes, the models being the wrong scale, and outdated loadouts, almost nothing is legal anymore. Bought the Leviathan box and Ultimate starter set to get me some nids, terrain, and rules, so that helps get some of his numbers up, but that doesn't help the 3k+ points of outdated models. Redoing the bases and handwaving the scaling issues as firstborn is possible, but incredibly tedious. Some models can't even be helped, such as a dread the size of a terminator, or a scout unit packing exclusively sniper rifles (only one is allowed per unit currently).
is it cheating if i move my army of 321 imperial guard infantry models with a little wooden plotting rod like they used in WW2 RAF command map rooms?
On the incorrect army list points, I once played a 1k Sons guy and wiped the floor with him which was very unexpected. After the game we checked his army list and it turned out he'd been playing with 400pts less than me! We had a rematch which resulted in a much closer game :D
Had a dude in Sigmar who kept spawning Beastmen off the board as part of their "ambush tactics" or some such. Very standard actual ruleset - outside 9" of enemies but within 6" of edge, etc. etc. However, our table is inset - he'd tuck in an extra ten people sometimes on the flat edge off the actual gameboard. Anytime anybody called him out on it, or hinted at how that's clearly not the intent of what is essentially the tableframe, he'd complain all about how ridiculous we're being. Just wasn't worth it, we lost a couple players because of that.
Back in 7th i ve heard someone that because landraider can transport, he gets them for free in the space marine demi company.
Back in 7th you get, if you play the demi company formation, every dedicated transport (e.g. rhinos and razorbacks) was points free.
"Does that land raider have the dedicated transport keyword? No? Then stfu cheater. You know what youre doing"
Sadly at my locals so many people do " Gotchas" it's not fun... and whenever I'm like " well I didn't know your unit could do that/ that that was your really good melee unit" they often say " well you CAN look up my faction to find out what they can do" I don't have the time or energy to look up every single unit in a faction, learn how that faction plays and every stratagem so I can have fun... that turns it into work
Yup, I feel that. Ran into a community like that once; a bunch of competitive players back in 7th ed who used gotchas as their main mode of winning. Their secondary mode was arguing everything their opponent does just to get their way. What a bunch of douches.
"You can look up my faction." I suppose it's technically possible, but it's also prohibitively expensive. As if acquiring a sufficiently sized army wasn't expensive enough, let's demand new players drop half their investment again on codices for armies that don't play, just in case today's LGS one-off happens to be sweaty. I get it's not technically cheating, but it would be nice if stores would ban dickheads.
Wahapedia is free. @@torgranael
Only major cheating ive seen personally was whem it came to rules amd datasheets. In 9th, it was "oh my unit can actually do xyz even though its not on their rules."
This edition its been a little bit of shady dice rolls and flubbying on their datasheets, such as claiming a unit has a 4+ invul save.... when its really a 4+ FNP on mortal wounds.
Messing with the CP counter can make a big difference too. "Oh i forget to add my cp at the start of the turn so i have enough to interrupt you" for example
Using the basesize as the model was sold with wasnt modeling for advantage. GW ruled that it was ok but it had some unfortunate bugs like 3-line-close-combat back in 9th (or even 8th?). With 10th editions rules they fixed it
Most of my terminators and tactical marines (as well as my sisters) are on 25mm bases because that's what they came with. If GW wants to send me new bases then maybe I'll rebase them. But I play so infrequently and only friendly games so no one cares.
That -1CP Stratagem thing was a source of a lot of confusion in my area. Some interpreted it as a free overwatch or reroll for a second unit. Others said it was -1 to only the 2CP Battle Tactics. It was a mess. 🙈
Other than confusion about rules and terrain, I haven't seen any blatant cheating like mis-measuring or hiding dice rolls. Thankfully.
In their defense, they changed it mid-season and not everyone uses the 40K app or is 100% up to date with changes. That's why I feel very guilty about springing that on most people and I always ask my opponent which variant they want before the match.
@@darkknight8702 They didn't even change it on the datasheets for like 4 months
when i used to frequent a hobby shop and play with the group there, probably 1 in 10 were honest players who wanted fair games, everyone else was just there to get a win, no matter the cost, the shop closed down, big cost,
oh, forgot, the guy at the GW store(a red shirt) one town over, he is famed for being a cheat, the podcast CANHAMMER regularly talks about the guy, as he is still going to every tourney in Ontario, he used to have a youtube channel where he would post battle reports,
Fortunately, I've only come up against one major cheater, but it was a doozy. So we are playing in this casual league and I'm running my Kroot army (back in 9th before we had real rules). He was running Sisters and we got to chatting before the game. He started by bragging about how he'd downed this meta Dreadknight army with all his miracle meltas in the previous game. I told him that he'd probably have an issue with my army as I was all Kroot and didn't have anything big. He said "oh I know, I caught one of your previous games" then proceeded to pull out a list without a single melta and leaded to the brim with flamers. During the game, he tried to full shoot his rapid fire weapons at max distance, insisting it was a special sisters rule. When I demanded to see the rule, he caved and didn't even pretend to look, just got a "oh, I guess I must have misremembered." He tried to Deep Strike turn 1, and was constantly rolling dice whenever I turned away for a moment.
Despite all that I was keeping the game very close and on turn 3, I was taking a bunch of Ld checks for decimated units. We were short on time, so I was rolling them fast when as soon as a dice left my hand I realized it was for a key unit and said "shit, I CP pass that one" after a few more seconds the dice stopped rolling across the table and came up a fail, which he then proceeded to insist was that actual result. This is a very debatable issue I should have been allowed to do that or not, but I'd had enough of his BS at this point and just called a judge to resolve it. Since it was a casual event, the judge sided with me, and the guy threw a temper tantrum that would have put my 6 year old to shame. Not wanting to deal with it, the judge relented and said "the official stance in the GW rulebook is to roll of when something can't be determined, so we're going to do that.) He immediately agreed, I also did begrudgingly since the judge had already sided with me. I won the die roll and the guy flipped his shit again, yelling at the judge and me saying we were poisoning the hobby and all kinds of crazy stuff before scooping up his models because he "refused to play with someone like me". The guy was subsequently banned from the store. I returned home to a bunch of angry FB DM's (as that's how we organized the games) and immediately blocked him.
There are just some people in the world that I think I'll never be able to understand.
This is why I hate competitive warhammer. You do your best to play as clean as possible but your opponent goes "yeah this unit moves 12", "this unit can activate this", "Yes my strategem or rule can do this. Trust me I am a pro". You go check this after your defeat and you realize none of this was valid. You call this at the competitors or organizers and they start throwing trash out you because you are "ruining" their community or one victory won't take you anywhere.
Literally never had any of this happen, and I've played thousands of competitive games. Had maybe 4 bad opponents.
@@jacket2848 my best games have been casual with friends. Were we learn about each others faction from gameplay to lore. We remind ourselves from Oath targets, tokens, rules and strategies. If one loses or wins it doesn't matter because we had fun.
But boi, competive? Another story of grown manchilds running tantrums because I did a 6.0001" movement and thus I am cheater. But sure, my opponent can surely use a strat on a unit that cannot be used on, sure my opponent can modify his weapon strength to go from 4s staright to 2s. Sure, I can call them for cheating but I get a "No bro, you cheated on doing a 6.000001 movement". I really don't get the tryhard mentality on a toy game...but it is what it is on my city :/
The bit about „modelling for benefit“ reminded me of the ‚hunkered down Riptides‘ back in 8th edition. Back then, at least at the tournaments I went to, whenever you encountered a T‘au Riptide, 99.9% of the time it was like squatting or sitting on his behind. And more then once the question came up, if all leg parts were used in the construction.
Except for mine… I was getting raised eyebrows because I build it flying superman style gun pointing forward. Least to say I never saw the upper parts of the score boards. 😂
The old metal biovore models that are basically an ork with a cannon out of his back really have me feeling like I need to get another new one, so I can have all three be the same size. I wish I could share images on here, because it's actually silly how small he is compared to the spider tank sculpt they sell now
I had a guy not using the Sisters miracle dice rule correctly and was using them more so that he should have. That is instead of one miracle dice per one unit per phase. He was dumping several 4+ miracle dice into the damage of his damage amounts during an event at my LGS. I had trusted him to be playing properly.
I noticed that this is seemed insane he was able to constantly almost max out his damage rolls each turn. So I checked the rules and brought it up to him and soon after we ended the game. He dropped out of the event shortly after. Idk if he was cheating per se or was just completely playing it wrong.
if he dropped out, he was cheating. if he was making a mistake, he would stay in and play correctly from then on.
@ well in any case I decided to play against him again recently to give him the benefit of the doubt.
He was practicing for a local GT and already had the board terrian set up from one of the selections from the GT up and on the table. It ended up being guard tanks versus sisters Tanks. Everything was at a stand still until turn three when he destroyed two Leman Russ’s and a Rogal Dorn all in one go and then in my next T4 movement phase, he destroyed another Leman Russ with overwatch.
I tried to watch his rules and dice rolls but his dice were confusing because they were very cluttered with cards iconography and symbols on them so it’s hard to see what he was actually rolling. As soon as he was able to bite into any of my tanks, they would just get immediately destroyed.
So all I can say is he actually had really good rolls, The sisters Stat line and abilities are just that overbearing and/or I picked the worse list to play against him.
I needless to say, I told him that at least next time he needs to not have the terrain on the board yet, and that was my mistake, not having him select a different terrain type because he more than likely had been practicing on that one particular terrain set up for a while and that straight up his army/faction wasn’t fun to play against in the slightest. I doubt I’ll play sisters again until after they are nerfed.
I sometimes skew my rules to be slightly worse or deliberately skip over my special rules if Im playing against new players. LET THEM HAVE FUN!!
I've played a 2k game with a knight player who had a whole 400 point knight in reserves. Even though he had 2k points already on the board from the start of the game. I was new to the game and didn't find out until afterwards when I counted the models he had.
Dude was 400 points over in what was meant to be a nice easy intro game.
I always ask to measure to and from the models base and not their cool and scenic models. After all it make it easier to judge line of sight, gives creative freedom for models and the idea that i can shoot from my Spindly bits and wings feels so cheeky and stupid...
Based
I laughed so hard seeing a massive Ultramarines captain's base. I never even thought about that 'strategy.' That's gotta be the funniest way to cheat.
I went to a beginners tournament where some guy cheated like crazy with nids, he had the codex but I never thought to bring it up cause it was the last game of the day
He used Strats that didn’t exist, got rules wrong/added rules to models etc
@@Wesinatah Examples of fake strats?
@@LordCrate-du8zmhe claimed he was running crusher stampede
Used a Strat to bring back d3+3 genestealers, used a Strat to give himself devwounds
He also gave himself more movement on basically every one of his bugs and added wounds/sv characteristics
Big one was he claimed that if he takes a wound he gets +1 attack on his huge tyrannofex gun
@@Wesinatah Lmao that's hilarious
I've seen almost all of these except I don't think I've ever played a game where loaded dice were involved. One interesting wrinkle with the cards is that I've seen some people shuffle discarded cards back into the deck, which AFAIK isn't correct- a discarded or scored objective shouldn't be available to be drawn again. Usually it won't make much difference and I don't think I've ever seen someone doing it draw a card for a second time, but it's something to be aware of.
Oh wait the biggest cheats are popping stratagems that can only be pop in command phase and popping it in charge phase cause they know all the info they shouldn't know before like charge
I only play casually, and will cheat constantly in my opponent’s favor just to make the games more interesting. (Oh no I failed the save, while looking at a pass)
Just omit a save or any other roll.
Last time I recall saving rolls were not mandatory.
The one time I remember someone cheating me badly in a game was when a dice rolled over close to where he had his codex open, landed on a six, and he slid his codex over the dice and then contested that it counted because it "rolled under his book and might have been moved when he lifted his codex."
Never played with that guy again.
This is why i physically write everything that happens in my binder it’s gotten silly big but it’s hard to cheat or be accused of it when you have a physical record of everything you have e done
12:50 This is one place where I think Privateer Press got it right with WarmaHordes: depending on a model/unit's size classification, regardless of how it is positioned on the base, there is a static area that is considered 'visible'. It might be 2" above the base on some models, it might be 4" above on larger ones, but it's static and fair and you get what you expect.
Ive played against of a couple of cheaters. The most recent one played chaos and just kept rerolling dice.
Eg would roll a hit roll and fail then would say oops that was the darkpac then reroll the hit roll. Kept doing this to throw me off.
Or if a dice landed cocked if it was a good number they would keep it. If a bad number they rerolled
A recent one I've seen occurring more at higher level play will be using a high number of attacks to burn you're opponents clock time, by switching the clock to their time for saving throws before they even have time to verify the number of wounds.
People need to remember this is still a game where grown men play pretend general with plastic toys. So unless actual stakes are involved, i.e tournaments, just play honestly and don’t be a sore loser
This hobby is about creativity. As I see it we are telling a story. It shouldn’t be about the players, it should be about creating a narrative of an event. “I kill your model” is way more lame than “Character X has slain Character Z”. We don’t really exist in the world, we are the hidden hands of fate. This view and good sportsmanship helps remove EGO and ego is a source of so many of the worlds problems. Let’s create amazing stories together not fight each other.
I was accused of cheating for not fully understanding the rules. And yet he never told me not to pick up my entire squad of stormboyz from 1 railgun shot...
I think I spent maybe 3 months balancing a single type of dice that I create. I do non standard shapes likes kegs or coke bottles, or bolter bullets. So making sure they land on each side equally is time consuming and one hell of a math challenge.
I’ve seen people desperately asking to change their secondaries as well. It’s painful when the game is so close and you can see your oooo se t is purely
Looking at scoreboard seeing how they can cherry pick secondaries to enable them to beat you rather than just playing the game
Back in April of this year a guy at the Fallscon RTT threatened to punch his opponent while the TO was at the other end of the game area. His opponent didn't say anything until after the tournament was over, and that guy had "won".
I had a friend that did exactly the same as mentioned in the "Slow Play" part, at turn 3 (or even sooner) he always find an excuse to end the game (Imperial Fist are no match for a Grey Knights+Sororitas Inquisitorial army i suppose). BTW thanks for the link for the Tabletop Titans Store, i like that is so easy to get in the box again. Keep it up !
Measuring from the front and moving to the back was basically standard practice even in WD battle reports during like 3rd and 4th editions...
“Over measuring” can be assessed for intention quickly. Looking down, holding a tape measure up, to draw the line of where the point rests, creates a point beyond the exact distance. If you suspect your opponent is over measuring innocently, hand them a movement stick, if they’re still over measuring, then it’s not innocent.
I oftentimes find myself doing the opposite of many of these. I tend to forget rules that advantage me, and my customized Russes are wider than a regular Russ, to where I had to paint markers on them to indicate “true width”.
For table set up, me and my buddy will setup our deployment zone however we would like but then we will both mess with the mid zone until we are both satisfied with how it comes out
"Oops! 10th edition has been out forever, and this is a tournament so i should be up on the rules, but im gonna play it 9th edition Orks and play dumb when called out."
Blatant cheating absolutely happens.
8:18 that's easily the most common cheat I found. What it's just an extra 150points. Man 5 points over can break an army
Being forced to go 50-70 points short can break one too. Not having wargear or being able to add one individual mini to a squad for a set cost has the majority of lists either short or over.
@FormerGovernmentHuman the only difference between going over or under is being under 2000 points is legal and not cheating lok
Not seen cheating. Seen a lot of misplays. Heck I've misplayed. It does bother me though when I'm playing someone, and I discover someone else has convinced them a play against them was legit, they try same play vs me, I question it, we look it up, and bingo they were being blagged. I think, as long as your polite, its okay to question and be questioned about rules. Everyone just wants clarity.
People proxying special weapons that suddenly morph into different special weapons depending upon what kind of model is in range. Apparently plasmas have a melta mode when a tank moves in close. 😮
While not cheating per se, I find it incredibly irritating when your opponent interjects themselves into your turn while you are deliberating. For example, “Do you want to use [Strategem]?” or just interrupting your train of thought.
Last person I know of that cheats that I played against had been menacing kids by fiddling points costs, unit management and general army building rules as well as the usual slightly extra movement and adding wounds so generally taking advantage of the fact that they didn't know better played an "anything goes" apocalypse scale game in a very public way, hyping it up for everyone to come and see how good he is. So the rules were bring everything you have as long as they could reasonably canonically work together it's all good you can field it. I've known this guy from school and he's grown into a massive douche, gatekeeping and spoiling any hobby for literal children so I figured I would field my chaos army... Including allied guard... And knights... And titans. Now bear in mind he had bigged himself up in the weeks leading up, going on a massive winning streak by using overwhelming army lists so when he started setting up he was confident. I dropped a reaver. He added guilliman so I countered with Magnus. Calgar? Son, I've got all of the chaos champions here, plus 10 baneblades, did I mention 650 guardsmen to go with that, that's a nice dreadnought you have here's my 20 hellbrutes...
Now these aren't all official models they're 3d printed especially super heavys but they're all fully painted, I work on a single unit at a time to not have a pile of shame but the agreement was "everything" and it had been made clear that I was going to get stomped. My turn 2 shooting phase resulted in them rage quitting because when the combined shooting of 10 baneblades and a reaver apparently couldn't take down a troop transport (bear in mind I had no illusions of losing because I outnumbered him probably 5 to 1 and had counters to everything) I asked to see the datasheet, showed that actually transports don't gain the wounds of occupants (something he had claimed against others), damage is permanent (he had claimed that it regains all wounds at the start of his turn) and that every model in an exploding vehicle are at risk of being killed when they have to disembark, I offered the choice that they could stay inside and die if he wanted though but the destroyed vehicle doesn't do anything other than provide cover.
I knew when he was posturing about our massive game I couldn't possibly lose because I have so many minis that I printed for display of just for fun and there wasn't any reason for me to personally go all out like that but I'd seen all the complaints about him too and people got to see how he reacts on the other side of it which was not very well. Oddly he doesn't cheat half as much now that people know they can ask to see rules but at the same time the amount of people willing to play against him has dwindled since seeing him flip out when he's not in a winning position. The dude had it coming and didn't even have the grace to accept it when he was put in the same position.
Generous movement is something i always call out. I have a friend whos constantly measuring at an angle which in turn gives him an extra 1/2" or more depending on the length of the movement. Remember a²+b²=c²
I had an accidental cheating issue in one of my first games ever when I was still learning, myself being the culprit… it was in the crusade campaign a couple of buddies of mine were playing through (so it mattered a bit more to the overall campaign). it was on me for not referencing the core book and going off what I thought was my good memory. It was with the overwatch stratagem, forgetting the 6 to hit is ‘unmodified.’ So yeah my overwatching forgefiend with warpsmith was unintentionally getting the +1 to hit on overwatches which I learned after the fact was not correct. Buddy I was playing against didn’t realize the mistake but I did let him know after the game, when I realized, of my mistake and owned up to it since it significantly affected the outcome. We agreed to calling it a null match. I reference the rules a lot more to make sure that doesn’t happen again 😅
Any competitive event should not allow outside dice to be used as there is zero dice security at them and I guarantee none of the event organizers have dice weight measurement tools like those we use on the Craps table to verify casino dice.
Because there is money involved in these tournaments it is akin to the casino world; they should provide each player with a sealed dice set at the start of the tournament and signed in/out for multi day tournaments.
I went to a gt and 3 out of 5 games, my opponents dice rolls were 80% being 5+.
The fix is that both players can roll the same dice.
@@Marinealver not really, some armies only need 3+'s for the majority of their dice rolls to be effective while others need 4 or 5+. Doesnt solve any dice security issues with this suggestion.
Had a guy back in 5th edition that said a couldn't see his marine as in real life the model would be squatting down for cover. Shook my head and said okay and let it slide, really couldn't believe he said that. I used the same argument against him in the next turn and had a smile while I did it. Won the game so could be a lesson there.
Sloppy movement is by far the biggest problem I see at tournaments, and its sometimes hard to correct on the spot. I've started premeasuring distances for any of my opponents important moves if i notice them being sloppy early.
When I was a newer player, I would make move mistakes A LOT, giving myself an extra inch or so. Not intentional, still not cool, but Being honest and cool with fixing it makes a world of difference in the area of nuance and enjoyment
Hey Auspex can I get some loaded channel dice made? Like a lot of them, just in case I might need to flush some down the toilet.
I had one game recently, first time going against chaos knights, or knights of any kind. Didnt wanna get blown off the table immediately, so I brought an extra tank. My opponent won anyway, but got really mad that I brought extra firepower to help against his knights.
One I see a lot is rules that half damage and FNP rolls. I’ve seen people half the saving rolls and then double half the FNP rolls. So if your opponent fails 4 dice and 2 D each they remove 2 and then remove 1 dice for FNP as well
I like using the same dice box toward the middle of the table where both gamers eyes can see the box plainly. It's more convenient that way imo.
I am reminded of that one video from Miniwargaming.
I love having autism and remembering all the numbers. We've been recently playing 1500 pt 3 player games and I've remembered almost every datasheet stats by now when we play
Hey could someone help me out with line of sight rules? Do vehicles obstruct line of sight for units behind them? Logically it makes sense but I’ve heard tournaments say that units are invisible for line of sight purposes, and don’t obstruct it.
From the few casual games I've played with my buddies, we've always ruled that if you get down to the models level and can't see the other model, then your model can't see the other guys. Something ive seen in a lot of other tabletop battle reports too
Im pretty certain my dice are weighted to rolling 1s
The amount of missed hits ive had as a guard player is astounding
It's "do not attribute to malice what is SUFFICIENTLY explained by stupidity" not "easily explained", that is how plausible deniability is used.
Once played a guy that kept a mouse pad at the bottom of his dice tray, not sure how sketchy it actually was, but it felt like he got a lot of good rolls with the dice stopping early on it.
The flaw in the game design that weighted dice exploits...is higher rolls being more favored in most aspects (phases) of gameplay. If GW reworked the dice rolling system so that defensive rolls were more favorable rolling lower [3-] and offensive rolls were more favorable rolling higher [4+], then a fair opponent should have no problem using the same dice set for both offensive and defensive rolls.
I think the modelling for advantage thing can be easily fix. Use the siluete system from infinity, every model has a assigned size that its always gonna be , no matter how the mini is modeled irl
Finally! Some tactics from Auspex
You would be surprised by how dismissive people are when you offer to go over your army list.
This. I don't play 10th but in 9th I played Harlequins (both before and after their totally broken codex). They have a lot of special rules and stratagems that are hard gotchas if your opponent doesn't know about them. I would always try to explain what my army could do, and more than half the time people would stop me and tell me they didn't care. A sizeable number of those same people would then complain when they found out my entire army could advance, fall back and charge, or ignore terrain when moving, or when I tried to use any of the weird movement strats.
Question for anyone who wants to answer but if I have a ork war boss in a squad of nobz, would the war boss get effected by his ability might is right and get +1 to hit in melee since he’s technically apart of the unit of Nobz since he joined?
yes, because it says "Each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack" and the Warboss is a model in that unit when attached as a leader. The warboss will also benefit from the Nobz "Da Boss' Ladz" ability if someone were to try and attack him with Precision.
Have met people who drag on with their green tides. Taking 1 hour to move their army...
Also met a space marine player who tried to move his mini further than his advance roll showed.
what did the ork do?
When you watch this not because your afraid of others cheating but seeing if you accidentally cheat and didn’t know it
I've played a lot of people who have some amazing or crazy kit bashes so in terms of "angle shooting" I whole heartedly request a gentleman's agreement that if you can see the base or the main hull then it's able to be shot. Using cheeky "oh his sword is out so he will shoot" just doesn't sit well with me.
Cheating/bad sportsmanship at a "friendly event" basically made me quit the game back in 5th. A guy tried to claim a cover save from area terrain for his vehicle that did not have 50% of its hull covered by TLoS (it had zero % covered, it was just partially in the area). I explained that vehicles need their hull to be actually physically obscured to gain cover saves. He said "well that's just how I've always played it." I quickly reference the unambiguously-written rule (a rarity for GW in the era). He says it doesn't apply for *reasons*. I offer to call over a rules judge. He says "just let me have it", becoming louder and his face beginning to flush. I generously offer to roll off for it, he gets fully red faced and says "no just let me have it." At this point I can tell I'm being bullied so I just concede, but then he screams at me that I can't concede we need to finish the game. Just pure unadulterated toddler behavior from this dude because I won't just let him cheat me. I don't even remember how it was finally resolved, but I was supposed to leave my army out for display for paint judging after that round but I just left it packed up and cooled off outside because I honestly wanted to fist fight this fucker. This experience was so bad I basically stopped wargaming entirely except with my close friends because I did not want to risk going through anything similar like this again.
I don't know if people still experience this, but this was one of my big pet peeves as a competitive player, casual league and tournament organizer for 40k in 5th ed: people who tried to use social engineering to bully their way into advantages like this. In the events that I organized I pretty quickly sized dudes like this up and squashed them. They either started playing fair or I made them leave. This behavior was *worse* however at "friendly" events because there was a stronger social expectation to not argue because it's "just for fun."
„If you would disqualify everyone that plays rules wrongly in their own favor, only players that did nothing would win.“
That is what a TO said to me once.
This means its better not knowing your own rules.
So many top players actually do not read/understand their rules correctly to get into the position where they can basically cheat legally.
Its a pest, rotting all competitive play. And it needs to stop!
You play something wrong in your favor = disqualification!
My ability to roll 1s when I need 6s and 6s when I need 1s is my own version of helping the opposition, they don't need to cheat.
My personal peeve - the faction dice sets GW sell. They seem to replace 1s and 6s with stupid symbols, and it isnt always clear which is which. When I glance at my opponents rolls, I want to be able to inderstand what they have rolled quickly. Every time someone pulls out a set I want to ask them not to use them, but it just feels really petty.
I used to play X-Wing semi-competitively, and I don't miss these discussions on cheating. Warhammer seems like a nightmare, considering how many rules and codexes there are, and how loosely movement and LoS are played.
One pet peeve of mine that I think falls under poor sportsmanship is when an opponent tries to rush you, or is being generally argumentative and aggressive. Or when they're outwardly mad and frustrated if they're loosing the game, or if the dice go against them - like, don't be mad at me if I roll well and you don't, you choose to play a dice game, guy. This used to bother me a lot more when I was younger and more timid, but lots of more experienced players will act this way against young or inexperienced people. Most of the time, I think it's unintentional, but I've definitely seen some people do it as a strategy to tilt their opponents. It makes playing the game not fun, even if it may be a competitive environment, we're still just pushing plastic models on a table, don't take it so seriously.
19:27 Along the lines of sloppily proxied models. Unpainted minis can be hard to differentiate
Yep, as an Ork player i've found my opponents will try and setup terrain for easy line of sight eveywhere.
The only one I've ran into was my first time against Chaos Knights. I didn't know the army and he gave himself a 5+ invuln on shooting and melee. I didn't learn they lose it in melee until quite a bit later. To be honest, I kind of think the knights need it for both, but this was one of my first RTT's and that's just not how the army works. Then, not cheating, but first time I played Votann he did not explain his rules - there was a bunch of gotcha's from that. Then he was also very quick to put the time back on me, and never once take back for himself... it's 'okay' and now I'm way better equipped for competitive play, but it was definitely a feels bad at the time.
10:22 I’ll always as my opponent if the intent was to hide, and if we can’t come to an agreement we let the dice decide.