Unless they have been abused animals do seem to live in non duality. They are a great example to us, I love all animals, we should always treat them with compassion
Universal Consciousness the dreamer of all humans and animals (dream characters) cannot be abused. Ultimately what happens to dream characters (bodies and minds) doesn’t matter because they are just dream characters. Does it matter what you experience when you’re dreaming? Of course not. There is no evil. There is no abuse. There is no suffering. It’s just a dream and the dreamer/Self is not affected by the dream.
@@TheRenaissanceGuys Yeah, but all emotional suffering is based on the sense of being a separate self and as for physical pain you obviously do what needs to be done to attend to the pain.
@@TheRenaissanceGuys In death they will. It doesn’t matter if people don’t realise their true nature whilst dreaming because whatever happens in ones dream is of no consequence even if the apparent individual thinks otherwise. Everyone will wake up whether through deep meditation, intellectual understanding, self enquiry, psychedelics or death. They will see that there is no REAL pain and suffering and that it was all just a dream or nightmare if you prefer!!
I think the person who raised the questions did a good job of formulating his thoughts in words. Most others wouldn't have so much 'clarity' about not being clear. Rupert as always is a stream of clarity who can intuitively grasp the confusion behind the question.
@@paulajahshan some people don't know how hard it is to learn a second language. I give the man credit. This is something that monolingual english speakers will never appreciate.
About dogs not carrying fear..after having volunteered in an animal shelter for 10 years I have seen traumatized fearful dogs with anxiety long after they are off the streets and are in a safe place with loving people and lots of good food. It takes a long time for some dogs to let go of the fear. They may not reflect on it like humans, yes, but they still what looks like carry it around with them. I have also seen cats in the shelter that are miserable and fearful even after they have been in complete safety and in good care.
One of my rescued Labradors had been a puppy mill survivor and had lived her first six years inside a narrow pen , unable to turn her body round. In that time, she had given birth to over 100 pups. Her rehabilitation was a very long and steady process, she was physically and psychologically traumatized. It took roughly two and a half years to reach the point where she could go out into the world and experience life as a 'normal' dog
Eckhart Tolle says that the only animals that suffer any kinds of neurosis, are those that have either been traumatised by humans or are living with a neurotic traumatised human being.
@@piersmack72that is absolutely correct. Therefore, it stands what Rupert says about animals, as long as they are allowed to just be, without suffering at the hand of humans.
Rupert states that animals can have e.g. fear, but that the fear is gone as soon as the danger causing the fear is gone. In my lifelong experience with animals I have found this to be untrue. Just like humans animals can be fearful (or depressed) as a pattern, without any danger or apparent cause present. Just like humans they can carry trauma with them throughout their lives, but in many cases they can also be helped to resolve their trauma, as humans can. I don’t know whether animals keep telling themselves stories in their minds to perpetuate the fear, like humans do. I have a hunch they don’t, but I’m not sure. I had a horse, who was born from a mother and father who had both been living with us for a long time, so we knew their personalities quite well. They were both not fearful, but their little son was born fearful, without any apparent reason. And he stayed that way. There was no past trauma or anything and still there was this unexplainable fear. Another one of our horses had been depressed for a long time, as in staying in the same spot all day long, very aloof and unreachable, head down. At some point an animal communicator ‘spoke’ to him and found that he had been abandoned by his mother as a little foal. From the moment this past experience was seen and acknowledged, the horse’s depression disappeared as if it had never been there, from one moment to the other. I’ve seen similar things with my cats and dogs, so no, I don’t agree with Rupert’s statement on this or the question in the above description saying “why do humans experience psychological suffering but animals don’t?” because they DO.
It's a great question by the gentleman. I feel the answer to that question should definitely include a few words on 'liberation'. All animals live in a 'liberated' state. There may be no enlightenment, but they are always free of psychological suffering. Only humans have to be enlightened and then lead a liberated life. A baby is in a liberated state, but once again, it is not enlightened. The chicken doesn't "desire" to eat corn. It is looking for corn because it is hungry. It is feeding itself to be alive. No animals or birds have desires. They have bodily needs which they take care of, but no 'desires'. Only humans have desires. Psychological wants and needs. A form of suffering. 🙏🙏
Are you certain that 'all animals are free of psychological suffering'? What about animals who are in a slaughterhouse, herded into a line, awaiting execution and 'sense' their impending death? Do you not think that they may be suffering psychologically?
@@pessoa288 What do you mean by "ego"? Is it a government identification number, name and date on a birth certificate, employment history, and bank account? If that's the definition then animals clearly don't have egos at all not to mention ones that can suffer. That being said, it's not an outlandish inference to posit that when animals empty their bladders, quench their thirst, satisfy their hunger, rest and sleep at night ... they experience more or less the same kind of relief that humans experience when doing the same.
@@robgoodwin5366 Good question. I have worked on farms, and I'm pretty convinced that animals suffer immensely when being killed. I feel like most eastern philosophy schools have this wrong. Its possible that there is a very deeply rooted ignorance, that is in the very genetic fabric of all beings; plants and animals included. The Gnostics, and even some Buddhists allude to this.
I live with a cat who's also my best friend. We have a really strong bond, so much so that I can tell all of his subtleties. He laughs, smiles, sometimes he even cries when I don't let him out in time. I can even tell that there is a cognitive process behind his eyes, he's really special. When compared with others, animals really do have their own personalities. Not only that, besides our love and body language I speak to Niuniek, and I think that when humans do this we impart something to the animals. They slowly learn from us and become even more intelligent, this shows itself in his behavior.
I think they feel and see energy in and around you and some are smarter then others and they CERTAINLY have their own personality...every animal does...love them cats too❤️🔥
@@PureAeternumI think the opposite is true, when I had a strong ego many years ago I had a cat, this cat evolved such big ego that it did things on purpose like messing the house and peeing outside it's box. But it lived with two people with very strong bonds with ego.
Absolutely. I take in guinea pigs people have discarded. They are all unique, have moods, favorite foods, and they use bells is their large enclosures to call me.
thanks for teaching me a new word, i do love to learn new words, as it allows us to communicate far more accurately, the only problem is hardly anyone else understands you lol, what a paradox, you make less of a well communicated explanation or description etc by using exactly the right word. The person understands you less, despite having used the word invented precisely to describe or convey whatever it is! so, i end up often dumbing down language to communicate better, bonkers. I always look up new words like this one, but another problem i have is being able to use the new word, if you don't use it regularly you'll either forget it, or it won't flow as it's not established in your functional use of words, it doesn't flow out as part of a natural sentence in conversation for instance. occurrence of these words is more likely and through repetition you'd naturally be able to use the word appropriately. So, i find i can write better than talk, as there is the luxury of time to find that word you know, but can't quite remember, like this word (anthropocentrism), it won't flow in conversation but if i was writing a book, it could be used but would be recollection. It's just i learn new words, and would like to use them, as it's really an amazing ability when you think about it, to be able to convey feeling's, descriptions of places, objects etc etc so much more clearly. That's why the word exists presumably in the first place, as another word is not quite right. Anyway, off topic, re. animals, they would appear to be pre ego. They just are and there is no self image, or need to enhance it, contemplate, or even plan. They just are, and their lives are spontaneous. But, it seems to me, that animals, say a dog, does have a sense of 'me', there is an experience the dog is having that relates to itself, i'm sure the dog feels a sense of 'me-ness', not conceptualized, nor aware of that knowingly, but nonetheless, the sense of 'me' (i'm referring to the sense of 'me' i have for instance, i always know and feel i am 'me', it's not the personal sense of self, it's just what i am, there is nothing more to me, other than the clear 'feeling' of 'me'. That 'me' that i know so well, has never changed, it was the same 'me' that experienced or was present at any point in my life, always 'me', never changed at all, that's astonishing really, and proves that this 'me' feeling it's not a feeling but you know what i mean, or maybe you don't? Actually i wonder if people do have this inate known feeling of 'me', this static ever present 'me' or if they feel that they are in fact in a constant state of flux perhaps? they would not agree with me that they feel and know this undeniable sense of unchanging self, they would describe themselves as not the same when they were 20 years old at their birthday party to today on their 30th birthday. They would say that was a different 'me' they have changed, that old 'me' is gone, something like that? of course the person changes, beliefs, body, personality, could be a 180 turnaround from violent criminal to reformed church goer, so there's no argument regarding the question has or does the person change, the answer is yes. If a person is all one feels, that is what they are, and only are, then this sense of 'me' may be completely absent i guess, or is completely enterwined with 'me' 100% fused, is that it? But, if someone tells you a story about the past, they refer to themselves as 'me' and if a good story teller, you can tell they are referring to the same 'me' they are now, so they obviously understand and know thatdescribable
@@jjjos Just because it’s a new word to you doesn’t mean it’s all exotic to the rest of the world. It’s a rather pervasive construct in critical public discourse these days …
Fun fact: Ramana Maharshi once made an off-hand remark that a jnani's only 'purpose' is to bring jnana to all beings; and he clarified that this did not exclude animals or, to the surprise of everyone listening, _plants._ A prime example of this was Lakshmi the cow (there is a wonderful story concerning her in David Godman's YT channel)
Yeah, I don't know if I buy the theory that plants are sentient. When I look at a dog it seems natural to speculate that dogs more or less experience the same relief from hunger that humans do when eating. This also holds for urinating or defecating. If one treads on a dog's paw the dog yelps out of shock and pain. This could be comparable to something four times a human's size treading on a human's foot. If you'd theorize that grass is being tortured when lawns are mowed, could you also theorize that concrete is in agony when cars drive on the road? Is a flame suffocating in agony when water is poured on it? Moreover, if people truly believed that plants are sentient why would they eat animals? How can these people claim to have access to the esoteric knowledge of plant sentience yet also be oblivious to the fact that many more plants must be consumed if humans feed plants to animals that the humans then eat instead of eating plants directly? How can someone's assertions be taken seriously when they claim to be plant experts yet that same person somehow doesn't know that the animals they eat were fattened to slaughter weight by eating plants?
@@HopyHop1 nah.Animals are already in sync with natural law or dharma. So, it is the reason why the law of karma is not applicable to non-human species (animate and inanimate). So, this whole 'enlightened' business without understanding and experiencing Vedanta is half baked at best. "Can plants feel agony" - again wrong assumption that experience can experience itself without understanding Vedanta. Moreover, plants do not have 5 senses (software and hardware). So, there cannot be any experience of "pain" or "pleasure" when it comes to plants and trees for the conscious, impassive and omnipresent experiencer. But why plants and trees should not be cut is because they also have a "dharmic" role to play to sustain stability and harmony of the world. It is the reason why there is no concept of religion in Hindu/Vedic tradition. It instead uses a non translatable Sanskrit word dharma. What is dharma?Dharma has the Sanskrit root dhri, which means "that which upholds" or "that without which nothing can stand" or "that which maintains the stability and harmony of the universe." Dharma encompasses the natural, innate behavior of things, duty, law, ethics, virtue, etc. Every entity in the cosmos has its particular dharma -- from the electron, which has the dharma to move in a certain manner, to the clouds, galaxies, plants, insects, and of course, man. Man's understanding of the dharma of inanimate things is what we now call physics.
@@indianmilitary I'm not saying forests should be cleared for unjustifiable reasons. In fact, forests and plant life in general are essential for processes such as converting CO2 to oxygen, soil preservation, water distillation, habitation for wildlife and so on. A strong case can be made for the preservation of flora without asserting that plants are sentient or citing woo-woo sources as authoritative.
@HopyHop1 Consciousness is imperative for everything to exist. Everything in that sense is a mental "bubble" of similar ideas at its core, which accrues an astral layer that results in physical form. This applies to concrete too... Or anything, really. Even thoughts. The thing is, most things that inhabit our universe are way beyond what we as humans are willing or able to call "conscious". That begs the quedtion of what "consciousness" means. In my own experience, for something to exist it must have a core of individual awareness that expresses a "rasa" (flavor) or essential meaning. This essence, unique in all things but according to the type of consciousness, holding similarities amongst a group, is what defines the form that Awareness "creates". Awareness ALWAYS will manifest tend towards a form... whether that manages to get to be physical, or just astra-mental... or just mental, doesn't matter. . This expression of awareness/essence into form is immediate, not a sequential, step by step process. Words really fail here thought... This "essence", creates a pull in the mental sphere towards ideas similar to itself... which creates a "bubble". Creatures that have a complex mental sheath capable of 'feeling' and 'perceiving' as well as acting in an animal sense, do so because that is part of their essence. That is, part of its 'meaning' is having the capacity to feel, express and alter its own expression of that meaning and to perceive and interact consciously with other forms and meanings around it: in other words, this essence manifests a physical nervous system, and a biological body... Minerals dont have this. Plants do but at a most rudimentary level. However, they have relatively a more complex mental body than minerals, with some very limited capacity of perception and feeling, but without the capacity to judge it or alter it: pain "exists" in their awareness, but its Very different to how animals experience it. It is not part of their 'meaning' to "feel" or "think" about what their physical body experiences, in that they dont express a need for a a complex nervous system. Its just not how plant life "do", in the words of Ze Frank. Their inherent nature and awareness type is very different from human or animals. However, in a very visceral, non-mental way, they do posses all the innate instinct commom to all living beings to adapt, conform, feed and grow, etc Animals have even more complex mental and astral forms, which reflects on their physical structure and nervous system.... They can explore and express their own essence/consciousness in very complex ways. This is their "shared" meaning, as it were. We share a great similarity with all animals (being animals ourselves).... But still there's problems in describing and contrasting alien experiences to ourselves, in that we tend to pass any imagination of them through human centric ideas and concepts... I, for one, don't consider eating animals any more or less moral than eating plants for this reason: Jivo jivasya jivanam. Life feeds on life and this 'dimension' is a hungry place... Awareness sacrifices its forms to itself in order to exist in physical forms. These are karmas that are part and parcel of being alive. What is required is for one to figure out how to deal with them wisely... some systems of thought have presented strict diets according to their own 'gnosis' of how the universe opperates, to accrue the least ammount of debt possible, but debt (or the exchange, sacrifice of one life for another) is an unvoidable fact. This is a more tantric approach to things though The most spiritual individuals I've ever met weren't vegetarians... --- But in the end, to even start to consider these things as possible a leap is necessary. Less of what you must accept blindly and more about the assumptions you already have that one ought to cling to less tightly, to at least be open to experiencing this yourself... And say for certain if the sages are full of shit or not. There's known ways to do this that dont imply believing religiously what someone else wrote in a book. Tons upon literal tons of paths to cultivate these awarenesses. But no one will get you there, and no one will prove it to you.
@@nyonpa_999 I've noticed that the assertion that plants are sentient isn't based on evidence that even those making the assertion believe. Rather, it's mostly asserted as a justification for animal abuse.
I watched the video and tried to understand. All i know is that my happiness comes from direct engagement with animals. They shine the light on my true self whenever i engage with them. I truly believe that they are pure consciousness that reminds us of where we come from and what we are. You can't change my mind
Humans are animals too, there is no difference. Divine consciousness sees through their eyes, the same capacity to suffer so we should be careful how we treat them. And yes they do expereince psychological suffering
You say no difference, yet we don't see animals painting Mona Lisa's or composing Symphonies. Nor advancing technology or telling imaginative stories. They do like to sniff each others butts and eat poop. Not too many humans doing that, though to each their own. It is in fact the differences that humans need to embrace in order to use our power to treat animals humanely.
I agree. I think animals are more "enlightened" than we are. They flow in the Awareness but has a lower representation persona that enables them to function on this planet. Just like us.
I loved this discussion between that dear young man and Rupert, concerning animals. Rupert answered and formulated his questions that clear and understandable, that some things became even clearer to me, who listens to Rupert now for years..What a great video! Thanks to both of you 😊😊😊
animals and children live in an enlightened state , in the moment just being. Us human adults question everything. Pay attention to how you feel when you are observing a child or animal, instant being. ♥
@@kripaharris237it’s every human, animals , plants etc natural true essence is to BE enlightened , the difference is animals don’t seek enlightenment, they are bring it in each moment for use humans to recognize
If children and animals are in an enlightened state, how do you explain how easily they become fearful? For example a child may be present but it doesn't take much for them to cry if things don't go their way. Or an animal to freak out if a strange noise occurs. Things that an enlightened person would not bother in the slightest. Would this be the difference between an "enlightened state" and "enlightenment?"
Hmm. Dogs do not always become happy again straight after the fear has passed. Abused dogs can be terrified and depressed for months until they gain trust again. But I get the point.
My thoughts is that it may be important to note that we can never know the experience of an animal, so we can never truly know if they are full of bliss or not/enlightened or not. We can make educated guesses and I believe that Rupert is making an educated guess based on his own/the non duel understanding! Jusat my .02, sending love and hugs guys 😊
I liked this video, because the guy asks questions that many keep thinking by themself but are perhaps afraid to ask. About the trauma. It's true that traumatized animals behave differently. But the real question is: Is there any "thinking" in their heads that "this should not be happening to me, I'm unhappy because the trauma I got". I think enlightment do not necessarily heal severe trauma for human beings either. What would happen is that awareness just peacefully witnesses the trauma reaction of human being.
When Buddha became enlightened under the Bodhi tree, he experienced a transcendental state when he realized that everything is one, that looking comes from everywhere, that his consciousness (That which looks) is everywhere, behind the world of forms and every moment, a frame of a film with all the characters , as if floating from nowhere to nowhere on the screen of this Transparent viewing. It is not affected by anything. That's why Buddha said, "I am no more." (Meaning as a character, as a separateness). You need to stay with this understanding. P.S. If you close your eyes, the picture of the world will instantly disappear, including the appearance of yourself. The fact is that viewing the world occurs thanks to the light of the sun and electricity. But the light of the sun is primary. Since electricity is a derivative. Everyone needs to understand that the light of the sun does not belong to the body! Without the light of the sun (these light Taos spread in space), no one will see anything and there will be no life. In addition, the whole world is not reflected in the brain. The brain and eyes are micro biocells with liquid. All metabolic processes in the cells of the body work according to a program and are not controlled by the mind of the individual. The body is essentially a biorobot. And the personality (its name, history) is an illusion and has a temporary existence. To understand What is not touched upon, read the beginning of the text.
I have been a fan, and I was so close to meet you in person in London (but didn't happen due to Covid) 😄 Though for few years I stopped listening to your speech, not because of any particular reason, I felt like I got the lesson enough. Yet, listening to few of the new ones, I see a new paradigm/revelation: "humans not being aware" in your speech. So glad that the "forbidden" is out... Thank you for all of your teachings Rupert 🙏
All living beings, regardless of species, & this includes all plant life, & microorganisms, are souls having a physical experience, just like us. I've even read that all the components of the earth & the universe are alive, such as rocks, soil, water, etc. Every part of the universe deserves our love & respect, they are us & we are them, separation is an illusion. & in our many incarnations we have incarnated & lived as every form of living being in the universe.
Wow. Who would think a question about chickens could be so enlightening. Was also lovely to watch the faces around the questioner. They were equally challenged by Ruperts responses as I was. Seen many of Ruperts videos but I think I'll have to revisit and ponder this one again and again.
Love this. So relaxing, so comforting to know our essential nature is awareness and the ego self is only a product of our thoughts, feelings and perceptions.
les nanas qui se moquent devraient pourtant comprendre que le sujet de la conversation est très intéressant...Ce monsieur est très courageux pour avoir osé cette question sans désemparer ! Merci +++ These girls who are making fun should nevertheless understand that the subject of the conversation is very interesting... This gentleman is very courageous for having dared this question without giving up ! Thank you +++
Consciousness itself doesn't require enlightenment. It's the mind which requires it. And when mind realises it's true nature, it becomes like blueness of the sky. Neither duality nor nonduality. So, it is quite possible for any living creature to have that clarity. It's not limited to humans or any other form of life. But a dream with a human form and mind is much helpful than other appearances. That's what I have discovered. There is obviously other views which are equally helpful. You have to get it in yourself. A dog may look dirty and sleep on the ashes, but what is it like to be a dog is only a dog knows. He might know clearly that the entire world is appearing in you the consciousness. May be in other form of language or free of language. 😌
I wanted to spend the rest of my life with you; but instead I am deeply honored knowing you spent the rest of your life with me.” -Camille Marcotte R.I.P. 🐈⬛ Blacky ❤ all Animals are Angels.
How can we say anything about the “personhood” of another animal? Elephants mourn, cats dream, dogs can be proud. If an animal doesn’t think in time, projects itself in a past or future, then they have always been awake, unfiltered reality….or not?
yes, actually even Rupert makes assumptions when he says (10:50) that a cow is not aware that it has a body, or that it's in a world... how can anyone assume anything about other beings or even about things? Rocks can be aware, cows can dwell in a totally different state of consciousness, and even crickets and fungi can abide in an alien state of consciousness. We should be more able to just say "I... don't... know...!". Maybe animals are enlightened and totally aware of many subtle aspects of nature we know nothing about. Who's to say anything about that? If awareness is all-pervasive, which it is, then it doesn't need anything to see itself through any other being or thing. Maybe water, rocks, and even our chairs are fully aware. If we can dream that we are conscious objects (which we can), awareness can easily do that too.
Eckhart Tolle has the best answer about animals. We are on the next step of consciousness as humans, however the price for evolution of consciousness that we traver further from the Source until we return back at it again. In a sense animals are closer to God because they are not having a sense of self.
I think he’s referring to the capacity in the human experience to use the mind to release the mind and be free. His claim is that animals don’t have that capacity, so they’re stuck in their psychological suffering, and it does seem to be that animal’s psychologically suffer. Animals can be depressed and traumatised; in other words, their behaviour suggests they can become “depressed “ through loss, and they can be anxious/fearful even though threat is no longer present. It can last for protracted periods of time (weeks/months/years) as understand, and as far as we know they can’t think their way out of it. I think this is what the questioner is referring to; you can’t think/reflect yourself out of your mind until something in your environment prompts you into that behaviour. Maybe Rupert would say that maybe animals can go back to peaceful existences eventually after being conditioned by their environments again, and in a way the ability for humans to think themselves out of their minds is also the result of environmental conditioning.
This is how I would have answered the question. I suspect that Consciousness sees EVERY dream, every experience, as a "privilege" as it is eternally okay and can afford to have "chicken dreams" where it seems to be ignorant of Itself. It would only be a human mind that thinks it is unfair that some dreams will be dreamt with ignorance.
some people don't know how hard it is to learn a second language. I give the man credit. This is something that monolingual english speakers will never appreciate.
In my opinion, some species understand the life and purpose of life better than humans. Life is not about living an artificial modern life. It is about living peacefully and happily together with loved ones. Thinking and descovering of stars, galaxies will not give any benifit. We are very much like micro organisms in the universe. Only thing matters in the life is the experiences. That's why, universe has given us senses, feelings and memory.
He is trying to make a decent point that Rupert doesn’t really get at. Humans behavior can change after enlightenment, as the finite mind doesn’t have the capacity anymore to disturb one’s experience of inherent peace (of consciousness experiencing its true self). This arguably reveals itself in enlightened ‘masters’ who can teach others about non-duality, like Rupert does. The questioner would like to know whether such a thing can happen in animals, that is to say: can the consciousness that experiences, say, being a cat, come to know its true nature, maybe consequently changing the cat’s behavior?
I don't know why it seems like Rupert is misunderstanding the question. It was the same with the "Can AI become conscious" question. He has himself said that it's part of the HUMAN evolution to be a child, then become an adult and then recognise their own being, but humanity is still so young, we have stopped short or something along those lines. So I think what he was asking was why don't animals go through this evolution.
How can you say that a chicken doesn't know she's a chicken, or a cow doesn't know she's a cow? Do you know that for a fact? I would submit that you are making an assumption. They may not call themselves chickens or cows, but they are very aware of themselves and others. Non-humans are sensitive and full of love. Their consciousness shines forth and is felt by anyone who can perceive, receive, experience, communicate with, enter into communion with, their consciousness. They are pure and genuine, very authentic, pure soul.
The only thing to do is to change what we are indentified with ( egoic false self) and identify our self which the unlimited Self that we really are. Krishnamurti used to say " the me must die". In K. speak that means identify with the unlimited and not the limited. Chickens are not aware of being aware. Good video Rupert.
❤ Without a mind it is not possible the awareness of our essential nature. ❤ That is, God cannot experience Itself without projecting Itself as a Human being endowed with a spedific kind of mind. Without our appearence as a human being where is ourselves,where is the world and where is God. So simple and obvious, but if we are lost in the mind's ideas we cannot see the obvious. Illusion is just wonderful and powerful.
Liberation is for one who thinks he's bound. Human ego feels bound, hence contemplates liberation. Animals live in the present. In their context, bondage & liberation are concepts out of context. In a way, they already live their lives similar to enlightened beings. Live in the present, eat what they get, don't horde for tomorrow, act in the moment & move on, don't carry mental baggage etc. The only difference being, they don't know or contemplate it. It's passive. While for human ego it's active and he can contemplate what it means through the tool of his metacognition.
Vedanta cannot answer all the questions like this one. There is evolution of consciousness which goes through various forms like stones, trees, animals etc. They are also limited and driven by their instincts like human beings. That's the reason it is said that human form is precious to realize the ultimate goal. You need to be human to know the ultimate truth from Rupert. 😊
If „enlightenment“ is understood as “dissolution of the believe to be a separate self”, then an animal such as a chicken is enlightened. Because it is free of a believe to be a separate self, so far as we know. And further on if consciousness aka awareness aka reality is the only one who can perceive or be knowing, then consciousness perceives and knows the world via animals like chickens or cows - more direct because without an illusion to be a separate being.
I believe the human mind is a unique platform through which Consciousness knows the illusionary EXPERIENCE of Forgetfulness-Realization. Animals' minds are not set for that experience.
There are several dogs and cats on UA-cam that use buttons to communicate. One dog called Bunny does, indeed, puzzle over what she is. She clearly understands the concept of species, as she correctly identifies her housemates and friends (cats, dogs, humans), and she knows that all these are animals. She stubbornly refuses to accept that she is a dog. It appears as though she is insulted by the suggestion (she is easily irritated by the dog with whom she lives). Bunny identifies as human.
the real question should be where do animals go when they die ? do they go the same place as human ? and yes animals can experience happyness and sad times too
They already are. It’s humans that are corrupted. A baby is born enlightened, then we bury them in duality. If you seek enlightenment, you seek a place you’ve already been.
If you seek, all you are doing is buying into the belief that there is anything to seek. All seeking is a Mirage. It is not right or wrong, but it is THE illusion. See through it now.
Neither babies nor animals are enlightened. Babies are born shrieking, disoriented, and in constant need. Animals ceaselessly prey and compete with one another according to their selfish programming. Witness a bear as it mauls a screaming, agonized moose and you will know that neither is enlightened.
I'm not religious, but the tenets of Buddhism make sense to me, as do the practices of zen. I am very grateful for having been pointed to meditation. I meditate a lot now. Karma is one principle of ☸️ Buddhism, and one that people often choose to dismiss. It's simply cause and effect, what goes around comes around. Actually it's not some outside force, it's what we do to ourselves, it's part of how we find balance. It's a universal principle, as Newton discovered, his Third Law of Motion. Human bodies are also not designed or equipped to eat animals anatomically, physiologically, or taxonomically. When humans insist on putting corpses of brutally mass murdered animals into their bodies, they pay the price sooner or later, eating flesh takes its toll not only on the animals but also on humans who stubbornly refuse to take off the blinders imposed by the matrix, and see truth. So they pay, with cancer, diabetes, heart attacks, kidney failure, and diseases of everything kind, and gruesome deaths. Humans are frugivores, who lost their way, due to ice ages, and kaliyuga that we have been in for many millennia. We are now very slowly going to be entering a golden age, and it may be many millennia before there are enlightened, compassionate, wise humans on earth in large numbers, but it will happen. Humans have a choice now, whether they want to continue to live in low vibration dense matter ignorance, or to practice empathy, compassion and muster up intelligence toward their bodies as well as toward all the precious beautiful beings with whom we share this planet, and help usher in the new Golden Age ❤️ 💙
The correct answer is: I don't know if the chicken is enlightened or not. It could be that it is enlightened and accepts life just as it comes not worrying about trivial things as humans do. We cannot assume a chicken's consciousness is limited as it might have access to planes of consciousness humans are not familiar with.
14:25 i know traumatized dogs that have been traumatized and act very anxious (in chill circumstances, but every little noise scares them) just like traumatized people.
@@hasansarhan9296 Depends on the animal race itself, how evolved is the nervous system and if consciousness is present, what kind and how evolved is that in that specific race (evolutionary biology). During the past 5-10 years through very advanced researches it is turning out a few race have extremely advanced self-perception, self-consciousness, "ego-like", so not only self-body-perception. In my country now a huge research-team working on the topics of dogs currently. It is already proved they remember-feel-act not only on insticts, having consciousness. The self-body perception/consciouness is already proven. You are right with the chicken example. You would be wrong with a dolphin/elephant/chimpanzee/dog examples.
Awareness is an eternally "self existing entity" that pervades boundlessly throughout the entire Creation. It can't be described by words, languages, symbols or names. It's imperceptible, inconceivable and unfindable. It has no forms, formless, spaceless, invisible and timeless. Not subject to Causation or Causality. Awareness knows it IS but knows not when it "abides" in any an animate being & or in an inanimate object. To paraphrase, the Teachings say, _"Awareness knows, and knows not, thus it is All-knowing."_ 😊🙏🙇♂️🌷
This subject reveals the conundrum. “I see what you are saying but I still don’t get it.” That is the key… the “I” that sees but doesn’t get it doesn’t exist. That is like King Lear saying I understand that I am really John Smith, when in fact King Lear does not even exist in the first place. We seek to understand, when we that seek to understand don’t even exist. Tricky. For example, when he (the man in the audience) says “see the separate self” he is planted in the notion that there is someone, him, seeing all of this. Yet that person that is ‘seeing’ does not exist. So the notion of personal identity, I, is in and of itself the (hopefully last vestiges of the) final stand of the illusory self, the ego. The ‘seer’ here is an illusion. We are ourselves an illusion. Pure consciousness/awareness/infinity is featureless.
@william5159 That was very well said. you are correct, It does expose a bit of a riddle or paradox, and here's how I had to compartmentalize it to try and grasp it. Every time we try to understand something, we use the word "I", as a reference point or bearing. (it's partly the limitation of our language constructs.) Which sort of reaffirms in our imagination, that there is actually some separate entity inside us called the Self, or me. What seems to make these concepts complex is what I termed for my own understanding the "self-referencing loop problem." It's very difficult for people to conceptualize that "All of it" is just one consciousness creating many activities or excitations, that we perceived as separate objects. It's the wave and water analogy. We can see the wave and the ripples clearly, but if you try to remove the wave from the ocean, all you get is water. The wave is the "activity of the ocean", it's not separate from water. It's difficult.
All cats, dogs & donkeys have memories thoughts limited to it's form, human form is the only form within our awareness where consciousness the brahma has potential to go beyond the form and see itself or merge within it to give that form the ultimate state of supreme human.
Thank you sincerely Rupert and Jonas for this clear and BEAUTIFUL dialogue ❤ However, I do not understand why the INFINITE OMNIPRESENT-OMNISCIENT-OMNIPOTENT SELF, peacefull and joyous (John Smith) would knowingly decide to put on the clothes of a finite mind (king Lear) to expérience a dreamlike world ..... and then feel misérable ? Please help me to understand ! Thank you !
You learn more from the obscure questions than from the same set of questions asked over and over again.
Unless they have been abused animals do seem to live in non duality. They are a great example to us, I love all animals, we should always treat them with compassion
@@oscargamble3334 True, we shouldn't eat them or abuse them in any way.
Universal Consciousness the dreamer of all humans and animals (dream characters) cannot be abused. Ultimately what happens to dream characters (bodies and minds) doesn’t matter because they are just dream characters. Does it matter what you experience when you’re dreaming? Of course not. There is no evil. There is no abuse. There is no suffering. It’s just a dream and the dreamer/Self is not affected by the dream.
@@TheRenaissanceGuys Yeah, but all emotional suffering is based on the sense of being a separate self and as for physical pain you obviously do what needs to be done to attend to the pain.
@@TheRenaissanceGuys In death they will. It doesn’t matter if people don’t realise their true nature whilst dreaming because whatever happens in ones dream is of no consequence even if the apparent individual thinks otherwise. Everyone will wake up whether through deep meditation, intellectual understanding, self enquiry, psychedelics or death. They will see that there is no REAL pain and suffering and that it was all just a dream or nightmare if you prefer!!
@@timeless4369but after the death it wouldn't know itself right?..the feeling of being or existing won't be there after we die.
I think the person who raised the questions did a good job of formulating his thoughts in words. Most others wouldn't have so much 'clarity' about not being clear. Rupert as always is a stream of clarity who can intuitively grasp the confusion behind the question.
Exactly my thoughts. I even was annoyed by the audience sarcastic laughs and smiles. Because of his questions, I understood a lot.
@@paulajahshan some people don't know how hard it is to learn a second language. I give the man credit. This is something that monolingual english speakers will never appreciate.
About dogs not carrying fear..after having volunteered in an animal shelter for 10 years I have seen traumatized fearful dogs with anxiety long after they are off the streets and are in a safe place with loving people and lots of good food. It takes a long time for some dogs to let go of the fear. They may not reflect on it like humans, yes, but they still what looks like carry it around with them. I have also seen cats in the shelter that are miserable and fearful even after they have been in complete safety and in good care.
One of my rescued Labradors had been a puppy mill survivor and had lived her first six years inside a narrow pen , unable to turn her body round. In that time, she had given birth to over 100 pups. Her rehabilitation was a very long and steady process, she was physically and psychologically traumatized. It took roughly two and a half years to reach the point where she could go out into the world and experience life as a 'normal' dog
Eckhart Tolle says that the only animals that suffer any kinds of neurosis, are those that have either been traumatised by humans or are living with a neurotic traumatised human being.
@@piersmack72that is absolutely correct. Therefore, it stands what Rupert says about animals, as long as they are allowed to just be, without suffering at the hand of humans.
Rupert states that animals can have e.g. fear, but that the fear is gone as soon as the danger causing the fear is gone. In my lifelong experience with animals I have found this to be untrue. Just like humans animals can be fearful (or depressed) as a pattern, without any danger or apparent cause present. Just like humans they can carry trauma with them throughout their lives, but in many cases they can also be helped to resolve their trauma, as humans can. I don’t know whether animals keep telling themselves stories in their minds to perpetuate the fear, like humans do. I have a hunch they don’t, but I’m not sure.
I had a horse, who was born from a mother and father who had both been living with us for a long time, so we knew their personalities quite well. They were both not fearful, but their little son was born fearful, without any apparent reason. And he stayed that way. There was no past trauma or anything and still there was this unexplainable fear.
Another one of our horses had been depressed for a long time, as in staying in the same spot all day long, very aloof and unreachable, head down. At some point an animal communicator ‘spoke’ to him and found that he had been abandoned by his mother as a little foal. From the moment this past experience was seen and acknowledged, the horse’s depression disappeared as if it had never been there, from one moment to the other.
I’ve seen similar things with my cats and dogs, so no, I don’t agree with Rupert’s statement on this or the question in the above description saying “why do humans experience psychological suffering but animals don’t?” because they DO.
It's a great question by the gentleman. I feel the answer to that question should definitely include a few words on 'liberation'. All animals live in a 'liberated' state. There may be no enlightenment, but they are always free of psychological suffering. Only humans have to be enlightened and then lead a liberated life. A baby is in a liberated state, but once again, it is not enlightened.
The chicken doesn't "desire" to eat corn. It is looking for corn because it is hungry. It is feeding itself to be alive. No animals or birds have desires. They have bodily needs which they take care of, but no 'desires'. Only humans have desires. Psychological wants and needs. A form of suffering.
🙏🙏
Are you certain that 'all animals are free of psychological suffering'? What about animals who are in a slaughterhouse, herded into a line, awaiting execution and 'sense' their impending death? Do you not think that they may be suffering psychologically?
@@pessoa288
What do you mean by "ego"? Is it a government identification number, name and date on a birth certificate, employment history, and bank account? If that's the definition then animals clearly don't have egos at all not to mention ones that can suffer. That being said, it's not an outlandish inference to posit that when animals empty their bladders, quench their thirst, satisfy their hunger, rest and sleep at night ... they experience more or less the same kind of relief that humans experience when doing the same.
Wow thank you.
@@robgoodwin5366 Good question. I have worked on farms, and I'm pretty convinced that animals suffer immensely when being killed. I feel like most eastern philosophy schools have this wrong.
Its possible that there is a very deeply rooted ignorance, that is in the very genetic fabric of all beings; plants and animals included. The Gnostics, and even some Buddhists allude to this.
I live with a cat who's also my best friend. We have a really strong bond, so much so that I can tell all of his subtleties. He laughs, smiles, sometimes he even cries when I don't let him out in time.
I can even tell that there is a cognitive process behind his eyes, he's really special. When compared with others, animals really do have their own personalities.
Not only that, besides our love and body language I speak to Niuniek, and I think that when humans do this we impart something to the animals.
They slowly learn from us and become even more intelligent, this shows itself in his behavior.
Perfectly put! I look after cats and I agree totally with everything you've written. Kudos! 🐈
I think they feel and see energy in and around you and some are smarter then others and they CERTAINLY have their own personality...every animal does...love them cats too❤️🔥
@@mack8488 definitely, I can attest to this.
@@PureAeternumI think the opposite is true, when I had a strong ego many years ago I had a cat, this cat evolved such big ego that it did things on purpose like messing the house and peeing outside it's box.
But it lived with two people with very strong bonds with ego.
Absolutely. I take in guinea pigs people have discarded. They are all unique, have moods, favorite foods, and they use bells is their large enclosures to call me.
I really appreciate this discussion about animals - good to go beyond our anthropocentrism.
'...our'? There is nobody, just this idea... Are you human or true Self?
KmmmKmmmmmmmmmmmm6
It’s super-anthropocentric to project advanced human constructs onto animals, ever consider that?
thanks for teaching me a new word, i do love to learn new words, as it allows us to communicate far more accurately, the only problem is hardly anyone else understands you lol, what a paradox, you make less of a well communicated explanation or description etc by using exactly the right word. The person understands you less, despite having used the word invented precisely to describe or convey whatever it is! so, i end up often dumbing down language to communicate better, bonkers.
I always look up new words like this one, but another problem i have is being able to use the new word, if you don't use it regularly you'll either forget it, or it won't flow as it's not established in your functional use of words, it doesn't flow out as part of a natural sentence in conversation for instance.
occurrence of these words is more likely and through repetition you'd naturally be able to use the word appropriately. So, i find i can write better than talk, as there is the luxury of time to find that word you know, but can't quite remember, like this word (anthropocentrism), it won't flow in conversation but if i was writing a book, it could be used but would be recollection.
It's just i learn new words, and would like to use them, as it's really an amazing ability when you think about it, to be able to convey feeling's, descriptions of places, objects etc etc so much more clearly. That's why the word exists presumably in the first place, as another word is not quite right.
Anyway, off topic, re. animals, they would appear to be pre ego. They just are and there is no self image, or need to enhance it, contemplate, or even plan. They just are, and their lives are spontaneous. But, it seems to me, that animals, say a dog, does have a sense of 'me', there is an experience the dog is having that relates to itself, i'm sure the dog feels a sense of 'me-ness', not conceptualized, nor aware of that knowingly, but nonetheless, the sense of 'me' (i'm referring to the sense of 'me' i have for instance, i always know and feel i am 'me', it's not the personal sense of self, it's just what i am, there is nothing more to me, other than the clear 'feeling' of 'me'. That 'me' that i know so well, has never changed, it was the same 'me' that experienced or was present at any point in my life, always 'me', never changed at all, that's astonishing really, and proves that this 'me' feeling it's not a feeling but you know what i mean, or maybe you don't? Actually i wonder if people do have this inate known feeling of 'me', this static ever present 'me' or if they feel that they are in fact in a constant state of flux perhaps? they would not agree with me that they feel and know this undeniable sense of unchanging self, they would describe themselves as not the same when they were 20 years old at their birthday party to today on their 30th birthday. They would say that was a different 'me' they have changed, that old 'me' is gone, something like that? of course the person changes, beliefs, body, personality, could be a 180 turnaround from violent criminal to reformed church goer, so there's no argument regarding the question has or does the person change, the answer is yes. If a person is all one feels, that is what they are, and only are, then this sense of 'me' may be completely absent i guess, or is completely enterwined with 'me' 100% fused, is that it?
But, if someone tells you a story about the past, they refer to themselves as 'me' and if a good story teller, you can tell they are referring to the same 'me' they are now, so they obviously understand and know thatdescribable
@@jjjos Just because it’s a new word to you doesn’t mean it’s all exotic to the rest of the world. It’s a rather pervasive construct in critical public discourse these days …
Fun fact: Ramana Maharshi once made an off-hand remark that a jnani's only 'purpose' is to bring jnana to all beings; and he clarified that this did not exclude animals or, to the surprise of everyone listening, _plants._
A prime example of this was Lakshmi the cow (there is a wonderful story concerning her in David Godman's YT channel)
Yeah, I don't know if I buy the theory that plants are sentient. When I look at a dog it seems natural to speculate that dogs more or less experience the same relief from hunger that humans do when eating. This also holds for urinating or defecating. If one treads on a dog's paw the dog yelps out of shock and pain. This could be comparable to something four times a human's size treading on a human's foot. If you'd theorize that grass is being tortured when lawns are mowed, could you also theorize that concrete is in agony when cars drive on the road? Is a flame suffocating in agony when water is poured on it?
Moreover, if people truly believed that plants are sentient why would they eat animals? How can these people claim to have access to the esoteric knowledge of plant sentience yet also be oblivious to the fact that many more plants must be consumed if humans feed plants to animals that the humans then eat instead of eating plants directly? How can someone's assertions be taken seriously when they claim to be plant experts yet that same person somehow doesn't know that the animals they eat were fattened to slaughter weight by eating plants?
@@HopyHop1 nah.Animals are already in sync with natural law or dharma. So, it is the reason why the law of karma is not applicable to non-human species (animate and inanimate). So, this whole 'enlightened' business without understanding and experiencing Vedanta is half baked at best.
"Can plants feel agony" - again wrong assumption that experience can experience itself without understanding Vedanta. Moreover, plants do not have 5 senses (software and hardware). So, there cannot be any experience of "pain" or "pleasure" when it comes to plants and trees for the conscious, impassive and omnipresent experiencer.
But why plants and trees should not be cut is because they also have a "dharmic" role to play to sustain stability and harmony of the world. It is the reason why there is no concept of religion in Hindu/Vedic tradition. It instead uses a non translatable Sanskrit word dharma. What is dharma?Dharma has the Sanskrit root dhri, which means "that which upholds" or "that without which nothing can stand" or "that which maintains the stability and harmony of the universe." Dharma encompasses the natural, innate behavior of things, duty, law, ethics, virtue, etc. Every entity in the cosmos has its particular dharma -- from the electron, which has the dharma to move in a certain manner, to the clouds, galaxies, plants, insects, and of course, man. Man's understanding of the dharma of inanimate things is what we now call physics.
@@indianmilitary
I'm not saying forests should be cleared for unjustifiable reasons. In fact, forests and plant life in general are essential for processes such as converting CO2 to oxygen, soil preservation, water distillation, habitation for wildlife and so on. A strong case can be made for the preservation of flora without asserting that plants are sentient or citing woo-woo sources as authoritative.
@HopyHop1 Consciousness is imperative for everything to exist. Everything in that sense is a mental "bubble" of similar ideas at its core, which accrues an astral layer that results in physical form. This applies to concrete too... Or anything, really. Even thoughts.
The thing is, most things that inhabit our universe are way beyond what we as humans are willing or able to call "conscious". That begs the quedtion of what "consciousness" means.
In my own experience, for something to exist it must have a core of individual awareness that expresses a "rasa" (flavor) or essential meaning. This essence, unique in all things but according to the type of consciousness, holding similarities amongst a group, is what defines the form that Awareness "creates". Awareness ALWAYS will manifest tend towards a form... whether that manages to get to be physical, or just astra-mental... or just mental, doesn't matter.
. This expression of awareness/essence into form is immediate, not a sequential, step by step process. Words really fail here thought... This "essence", creates a pull in the mental sphere towards ideas similar to itself... which creates a "bubble". Creatures that have a complex mental sheath capable of 'feeling' and 'perceiving' as well as acting in an animal sense, do so because that is part of their essence.
That is, part of its 'meaning' is having the capacity to feel, express and alter its own expression of that meaning and to perceive and interact consciously with other forms and meanings around it: in other words, this essence manifests a physical nervous system, and a biological body...
Minerals dont have this.
Plants do but at a most rudimentary level. However, they have relatively a more complex mental body than minerals, with some very limited capacity of perception and feeling, but without the capacity to judge it or alter it: pain "exists" in their awareness, but its Very different to how animals experience it. It is not part of their 'meaning' to "feel" or "think" about what their physical body experiences, in that they dont express a need for a a complex nervous system. Its just not how plant life "do", in the words of Ze Frank. Their inherent nature and awareness type is very different from human or animals.
However, in a very visceral, non-mental way, they do posses all the innate instinct commom to all living beings to adapt, conform, feed and grow, etc
Animals have even more complex mental and astral forms, which reflects on their physical structure and nervous system.... They can explore and express their own essence/consciousness in very complex ways. This is their "shared" meaning, as it were. We share a great similarity with all animals (being animals ourselves)....
But still there's problems in describing and contrasting alien experiences to ourselves, in that we tend to pass any imagination of them through human centric ideas and concepts...
I, for one, don't consider eating animals any more or less moral than eating plants for this reason: Jivo jivasya jivanam. Life feeds on life and this 'dimension' is a hungry place... Awareness sacrifices its forms to itself in order to exist in physical forms.
These are karmas that are part and parcel of being alive. What is required is for one to figure out how to deal with them wisely... some systems of thought have presented strict diets according to their own 'gnosis' of how the universe opperates, to accrue the least ammount of debt possible, but debt (or the exchange, sacrifice of one life for another) is an unvoidable fact. This is a more tantric approach to things though
The most spiritual individuals I've ever met weren't vegetarians...
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But in the end, to even start to consider these things as possible a leap is necessary. Less of what you must accept blindly and more about the assumptions you already have that one ought to cling to less tightly, to at least be open to experiencing this yourself... And say for certain if the sages are full of shit or not. There's known ways to do this that dont imply believing religiously what someone else wrote in a book. Tons upon literal tons of paths to cultivate these awarenesses. But no one will get you there, and no one will prove it to you.
@@nyonpa_999
I've noticed that the assertion that plants are sentient isn't based on evidence that even those making the assertion believe. Rather, it's mostly asserted as a justification for animal abuse.
I watched the video and tried to understand. All i know is that my happiness comes from direct engagement with animals. They shine the light on my true self whenever i engage with them. I truly believe that they are pure consciousness that reminds us of where we come from and what we are. You can't change my mind
Speak to a lion, it will change your mind.
Nobody can change your mind. Only you can do that, and if you can’t change your mind then there’s no point in having one.
Humans are animals too, there is no difference. Divine consciousness sees through their eyes, the same capacity to suffer so we should be careful how we treat them. And yes they do expereince psychological suffering
You say no difference, yet we don't see animals painting Mona Lisa's or composing Symphonies. Nor advancing technology or telling imaginative stories. They do like to sniff each others butts and eat poop. Not too many humans doing that, though to each their own. It is in fact the differences that humans need to embrace in order to use our power to treat animals humanely.
Are planets and stars part of consciousness as well? In that case, how?
@@TheEndingOfGold In a sense, yes. How? In the same way we are - I am.
I agree. I think animals are more "enlightened" than we are. They flow in the Awareness but has a lower representation persona that enables them to function on this planet. Just like us.
I loved this discussion between that dear young man and Rupert, concerning animals. Rupert answered and formulated his questions that clear and understandable, that some things became even clearer to me, who listens to Rupert now for years..What a great video! Thanks to both of you 😊😊😊
Exactly my thoughts
Im so lost here and its so much suffering. Dear god inside please let me be with you. ❤
Boum! This is the very essence of Rupert's teachings. ❤
Thank you Master Rupert for your wisdom and light 🙏🏾❤️
animals and children live in an enlightened state , in the moment just being. Us human adults question everything. Pay attention to how you feel when you are observing a child or animal, instant being. ♥
I don't think they are necessarily enlightened
@@kripaharris237it’s every human, animals , plants etc natural true essence is to BE enlightened , the difference is animals don’t seek enlightenment, they are bring it in each moment for use humans to recognize
I totally agree. I have a concept for this-where animals are 90% God. Its so comforting to believe that thay don't suffer almost at all.
@@pessoa288 they are definitely here for us , not the other way around . Dog is God spelled backwards, no coincidence me thinks ♥️😇
If children and animals are in an enlightened state, how do you explain how easily they become fearful? For example a child may be present but it doesn't take much for them to cry if things don't go their way. Or an animal to freak out if a strange noise occurs. Things that an enlightened person would not bother in the slightest. Would this be the difference between an "enlightened state" and "enlightenment?"
Hmm. Dogs do not always become happy again straight after the fear has passed. Abused dogs can be terrified and depressed for months until they gain trust again. But I get the point.
Being around humans is what gives animals mental illness. There is no mental illness in the wild.
@@plumeria66 LOL
"A feeling is not aware, it's something you are aware of" wow!
Well if it is a revelation for you then all the best :D
I'm grateful for this question as, for me, it is a reflection of the interconectiveness of all. The inclusiveness of Ramana Maharshi feels right.
My thoughts is that it may be important to note that we can never know the experience of an animal, so we can never truly know if they are full of bliss or not/enlightened or not. We can make educated guesses and I believe that Rupert is making an educated guess based on his own/the non duel understanding! Jusat my .02, sending love and hugs guys 😊
I absolutely love this question, and the tenacity and earnestness of the questioner. They elicit the most beautiful answer ❤️
Please, Rupert for President!! This man IS amazing
That young man is deeper than Rupert ,
That is why the Bible define enlightenment as the “happiness that passes all understanding”
@@joajoajb please say more on the value of self enquiry, of shedding all thing egoic in order to briefly glimpse our true nature
What about traumaticed animals? They are anxious all the time since the initial trauma. Not just in the moment of danger!
Yes, that is also what I believe have seen.. I disagree here with Rupert as well.
But you could make a point that this is human caused, sort of like a baby is "corrupted" in to duality
I liked this video, because the guy asks questions that many keep thinking by themself but are perhaps afraid to ask. About the trauma. It's true that traumatized animals behave differently. But the real question is: Is there any "thinking" in their heads that "this should not be happening to me, I'm unhappy because the trauma I got". I think enlightment do not necessarily heal severe trauma for human beings either. What would happen is that awareness just peacefully witnesses the trauma reaction of human being.
@@HugoHenriqueGrah My cat has a trauma caused by other animals. No humans where involved at all. But I get your point. Thx
@@veli-mattianttila390 Good question. Their obviously full of stress and anxiety. But the thinking part could be totaly absent.
Cats are sooo wise... LOVE them, They live the relation we humans feel, but not allways can be fully in. Unconditional. Love is unconditional
What a sweetheart, his mother raised him so well.
Animals are already enlightened, it's the human primates that we pray for
When Buddha became enlightened under the Bodhi tree, he experienced a transcendental state when he realized that everything is one, that looking comes from everywhere, that his consciousness (That which looks) is everywhere, behind the world of forms and every moment, a frame of a film with all the characters , as if floating from nowhere to nowhere on the screen of this Transparent viewing. It is not affected by anything. That's why Buddha said, "I am no more." (Meaning as a character, as a separateness). You need to stay with this understanding. P.S. If you close your eyes, the picture of the world will instantly disappear, including the appearance of yourself. The fact is that viewing the world occurs thanks to the light of the sun and electricity. But the light of the sun is primary. Since electricity is a derivative. Everyone needs to understand that the light of the sun does not belong to the body! Without the light of the sun (these light Taos spread in space), no one will see anything and there will be no life. In addition, the whole world is not reflected in the brain. The brain and eyes are micro biocells with liquid. All metabolic processes in the cells of the body work according to a program and are not controlled by the mind of the individual. The body is essentially a biorobot. And the personality (its name, history) is an illusion and has a temporary existence. To understand What is not touched upon, read the beginning of the text.
I have been a fan, and I was so close to meet you in person in London (but didn't happen due to Covid) 😄 Though for few years I stopped listening to your speech, not because of any particular reason, I felt like I got the lesson enough. Yet, listening to few of the new ones, I see a new paradigm/revelation: "humans not being aware" in your speech.
So glad that the "forbidden" is out... Thank you for all of your teachings Rupert 🙏
This man just said what I've been telling my wife and friends for months... in 14 minutes!!!
All living beings, regardless of species, & this includes all plant life, & microorganisms, are souls having a physical experience, just like us. I've even read that all the components of the earth & the universe are alive, such as rocks, soil, water, etc. Every part of the universe deserves our love & respect, they are us & we are them, separation is an illusion. & in our many incarnations we have incarnated & lived as every form of living being in the universe.
Brilliant conversation. Highly sophisticated questioner and brilliant answers by Rupert. Thank you.
Wow. Who would think a question about chickens could be so enlightening. Was also lovely to watch the faces around the questioner. They were equally challenged by Ruperts responses as I was. Seen many of Ruperts videos but I think I'll have to revisit and ponder this one again and again.
Amazing patience to explain something that the other person doesn’t grasp
Love this. So relaxing, so comforting to know our essential nature is awareness and the ego self is only a product of our thoughts, feelings and perceptions.
les nanas qui se moquent devraient pourtant comprendre que le sujet de la conversation est très intéressant...Ce monsieur est très courageux pour avoir osé cette question sans désemparer ! Merci +++
These girls who are making fun should nevertheless understand that the subject of the conversation is very interesting... This gentleman is very courageous for having dared this question without giving up ! Thank you +++
Genial!!! Muchísimas gracias!!!🙏🤍💛🧡❤️🩷🤎💚🩵💙💜
Consciousness itself doesn't require enlightenment. It's the mind which requires it. And when mind realises it's true nature, it becomes like blueness of the sky. Neither duality nor nonduality. So, it is quite possible for any living creature to have that clarity. It's not limited to humans or any other form of life. But a dream with a human form and mind is much helpful than other appearances. That's what I have discovered. There is obviously other views which are equally helpful. You have to get it in yourself.
A dog may look dirty and sleep on the ashes, but what is it like to be a dog is only a dog knows. He might know clearly that the entire world is appearing in you the consciousness. May be in other form of language or free of language. 😌
I wanted to spend the rest of my life with you; but instead I am deeply honored knowing you spent the rest of your life with me.” -Camille Marcotte
R.I.P. 🐈⬛ Blacky ❤ all Animals are Angels.
How can we say anything about the “personhood” of another animal? Elephants mourn, cats dream, dogs can be proud. If an animal doesn’t think in time, projects itself in a past or future, then they have always been awake, unfiltered reality….or not?
yes, actually even Rupert makes assumptions when he says (10:50) that a cow is not aware that it has a body, or that it's in a world... how can anyone assume anything about other beings or even about things? Rocks can be aware, cows can dwell in a totally different state of consciousness, and even crickets and fungi can abide in an alien state of consciousness. We should be more able to just say "I... don't... know...!". Maybe animals are enlightened and totally aware of many subtle aspects of nature we know nothing about. Who's to say anything about that?
If awareness is all-pervasive, which it is, then it doesn't need anything to see itself through any other being or thing. Maybe water, rocks, and even our chairs are fully aware. If we can dream that we are conscious objects (which we can), awareness can easily do that too.
What a beautiful Q&A exchange, thank you both
Eckhart Tolle has the best answer about animals. We are on the next step of consciousness as humans, however the price for evolution of consciousness that we traver further from the Source until we return back at it again. In a sense animals are closer to God because they are not having a sense of self.
Very good and informative. One of best speeches of his.
In this paradigm it seems all too easy to dismiss the suffering of finite minds
It doesn't dismiss it. It tries to resolve it.
I think he’s referring to the capacity in the human experience to use the mind to release the mind and be free. His claim is that animals don’t have that capacity, so they’re stuck in their psychological suffering, and it does seem to be that animal’s psychologically suffer. Animals can be depressed and traumatised; in other words, their behaviour suggests they can become “depressed “ through loss, and they can be anxious/fearful even though threat is no longer present. It can last for protracted periods of time (weeks/months/years) as understand, and as far as we know they can’t think their way out of it. I think this is what the questioner is referring to; you can’t think/reflect yourself out of your mind until something in your environment prompts you into that behaviour.
Maybe Rupert would say that maybe animals can go back to peaceful existences eventually after being conditioned by their environments again, and in a way the ability for humans to think themselves out of their minds is also the result of environmental conditioning.
I think to start we must define enlightenment
That guy is amazing.
There are several videos with his questions and he's simply something else ;)
This is how I would have answered the question.
I suspect that Consciousness sees EVERY dream, every experience, as a "privilege" as it is eternally okay and can afford to have "chicken dreams" where it seems to be ignorant of Itself.
It would only be a human mind that thinks it is unfair that some dreams will be dreamt with ignorance.
some people don't know how hard it is to learn a second language. I give the man credit. This is something that monolingual english speakers will never appreciate.
Answer is yes.
In my opinion, some species understand the life and purpose of life better than humans.
Life is not about living an artificial modern life. It is about living peacefully and happily together with loved ones. Thinking and descovering of stars, galaxies will not give any benifit. We are very much like micro organisms in the universe.
Only thing matters in the life is the experiences. That's why, universe has given us senses, feelings and memory.
Great conversation
He is trying to make a decent point that Rupert doesn’t really get at. Humans behavior can change after enlightenment, as the finite mind doesn’t have the capacity anymore to disturb one’s experience of inherent peace (of consciousness experiencing its true self). This arguably reveals itself in enlightened ‘masters’ who can teach others about non-duality, like Rupert does. The questioner would like to know whether such a thing can happen in animals, that is to say: can the consciousness that experiences, say, being a cat, come to know its true nature, maybe consequently changing the cat’s behavior?
I don't know why it seems like Rupert is misunderstanding the question. It was the same with the "Can AI become conscious" question. He has himself said that it's part of the HUMAN evolution to be a child, then become an adult and then recognise their own being, but humanity is still so young, we have stopped short or something along those lines. So I think what he was asking was why don't animals go through this evolution.
Thanks Rupert. It's so profound ❤
How can you say that a chicken doesn't know she's a chicken, or a cow doesn't know she's a cow? Do you know that for a fact? I would submit that you are making an assumption. They may not call themselves chickens or cows, but they are very aware of themselves and others. Non-humans are sensitive and full of love. Their consciousness shines forth and is felt by anyone who can perceive, receive, experience, communicate with, enter into communion with, their consciousness. They are pure and genuine, very authentic, pure soul.
Only ParamBrahman IS . Thank you Rupert .
An animal knows its true nature and lives by it. Lion is entirely Lion. Oak is entirely Oak. How often do you meets an entirely Human human.
The only thing to do is to change what we are indentified with ( egoic false self) and identify our self which the unlimited Self that we really are.
Krishnamurti used to say " the me must die". In K. speak that means identify with the unlimited and not the limited. Chickens are not aware of being aware. Good video Rupert.
Thanks for taking the time out to share self in words
❤ Without a mind it is not possible the awareness of our essential nature.
❤ That is, God cannot experience Itself without projecting Itself as a Human being endowed with a spedific kind of mind.
Without our appearence as a human being where is ourselves,where is the world and where is God.
So simple and obvious, but if we are lost in the mind's ideas we cannot see the obvious.
Illusion is just wonderful and powerful.
Liberation is for one who thinks he's bound. Human ego feels bound, hence contemplates liberation. Animals live in the present. In their context, bondage & liberation are concepts out of context. In a way, they already live their lives similar to enlightened beings.
Live in the present, eat what they get, don't horde for tomorrow, act in the moment & move on, don't carry mental baggage etc.
The only difference being, they don't know or contemplate it. It's passive. While for human ego it's active and he can contemplate what it means through the tool of his metacognition.
Vedanta cannot answer all the questions like this one. There is evolution of consciousness which goes through various forms like stones, trees, animals etc. They are also limited and driven by their instincts like human beings. That's the reason it is said that human form is precious to realize the ultimate goal. You need to be human to know the ultimate truth from Rupert. 😊
this was great, thank you
If „enlightenment“ is understood as “dissolution of the believe to be a separate self”, then an animal such as a chicken is enlightened.
Because it is free of a believe to be a separate self, so far as we know.
And further on if consciousness aka awareness aka reality is the only one who can perceive or be knowing, then consciousness perceives and knows the world via animals like chickens or cows - more direct because without an illusion to be a separate being.
Animals so full of peace ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Nice discussion. Reasonable questions and subtle answers.
This was a nice instansiation of the discussion between Aristotle and Plato :)
I believe the human mind is a unique platform through which Consciousness knows the illusionary EXPERIENCE of Forgetfulness-Realization. Animals' minds are not set for that experience.
There are several dogs and cats on UA-cam that use buttons to communicate. One dog called Bunny does, indeed, puzzle over what she is. She clearly understands the concept of species, as she correctly identifies her housemates and friends (cats, dogs, humans), and she knows that all these are animals. She stubbornly refuses to accept that she is a dog. It appears as though she is insulted by the suggestion (she is easily irritated by the dog with whom she lives). Bunny identifies as human.
A dog doesn't know that it's a dog but it does know that it's a part of a family.
I appreciate this... thank you so much
the real question should be where do animals go when they die ? do they go the same place as human ? and yes animals can experience happyness and sad times too
They already are. It’s humans that are corrupted. A baby is born enlightened, then we bury them in duality. If you seek enlightenment, you seek a place you’ve already been.
You speak as if something is wrong
If you seek, all you are doing is buying into the belief that there is anything to seek. All seeking is a Mirage. It is not right or wrong, but it is THE illusion. See through it now.
Neither babies nor animals are enlightened. Babies are born shrieking, disoriented, and in constant need. Animals ceaselessly prey and compete with one another according to their selfish programming. Witness a bear as it mauls a screaming, agonized moose and you will know that neither is enlightened.
Animals are not enlightened.
You didn’t watch the video obviously.
Lakshmi was a cow in form that was realized via Ramana, it would attend gatherings of the truth.
I'm not religious, but the tenets of Buddhism make sense to me, as do the practices of zen. I am very grateful for having been pointed to meditation. I meditate a lot now. Karma is one principle of ☸️ Buddhism, and one that people often choose to dismiss. It's simply cause and effect, what goes around comes around. Actually it's not some outside force, it's what we do to ourselves, it's part of how we find balance. It's a universal principle, as Newton discovered, his Third Law of Motion. Human bodies are also not designed or equipped to eat animals anatomically, physiologically, or taxonomically. When humans insist on putting corpses of brutally mass murdered animals into their bodies, they pay the price sooner or later, eating flesh takes its toll not only on the animals but also on humans who stubbornly refuse to take off the blinders imposed by the matrix, and see truth. So they pay, with cancer, diabetes, heart attacks, kidney failure, and diseases of everything kind, and gruesome deaths. Humans are frugivores, who lost their way, due to ice ages, and kaliyuga that we have been in for many millennia. We are now very slowly going to be entering a golden age, and it may be many millennia before there are enlightened, compassionate, wise humans on earth in large numbers, but it will happen. Humans have a choice now, whether they want to continue to live in low vibration dense matter ignorance, or to practice empathy, compassion and muster up intelligence toward their bodies as well as toward all the precious beautiful beings with whom we share this planet, and help usher in the new Golden Age ❤️ 💙
The correct answer is: I don't know if the chicken is enlightened or not. It could be that it is enlightened and accepts life just as it comes not worrying about trivial things as humans do. We cannot assume a chicken's consciousness is limited as it might have access to planes of consciousness humans are not familiar with.
Human beings ARE animals. Can we become enlightened? We are still waiting to see.
Gli animali/il.pollo non si illumina...così come non lo fa l'uomo o se separato
Rupert stesso non si illumina
14:25 i know traumatized dogs that have been traumatized and act very anxious (in chill circumstances, but every little noise scares them) just like traumatized people.
Humans are animals, so yes. We don't become enlightened we realise we already are.
Animals are already enlightened they live in the moment not worried not thinking
Tell that to the chickens.
😅
Humans don't have thoughts , they are a bundle of thoughts ferling sensing. They identify with it. Or not.
Not true
Not true to all animals. But I get the point.
If it’s not true does a chicken thinks it is a chicken?
@@hasansarhan9296 Depends on the animal race itself, how evolved is the nervous system and if consciousness is present, what kind and how evolved is that in that specific race (evolutionary biology).
During the past 5-10 years through very advanced researches it is turning out a few race have extremely advanced self-perception, self-consciousness, "ego-like", so not only self-body-perception.
In my country now a huge research-team working on the topics of dogs currently. It is already proved they remember-feel-act not only on insticts, having consciousness. The self-body perception/consciouness is already proven.
You are right with the chicken example. You would be wrong with a dolphin/elephant/chimpanzee/dog examples.
Why is the word “chicken “ so funny? It makes me laugh too and I don’t know why!!!
Lol omg same I lose it everytime he says “chicken” even the people around him start laughing when he says chicken lmaooo
He cute tho lol
Looks so funny when the questioner asked about chickens😂 Thank you for laughter)
Awareness is an eternally "self existing entity" that pervades boundlessly throughout the entire Creation.
It can't be described by words, languages, symbols or names. It's imperceptible, inconceivable and unfindable.
It has no forms, formless, spaceless, invisible and timeless. Not subject to Causation or Causality.
Awareness knows it IS but knows not when it "abides" in any an animate being & or in an inanimate object.
To paraphrase, the Teachings say, _"Awareness knows, and knows not, thus it is All-knowing."_ 😊🙏🙇♂️🌷
Thanks for sharing.
Animals are already enlightened.
Depends which one. Not true to all.
This is great to here in this context ❤
I wonder if his question could be phrased this way:
If so, why are humans self aware, and animals are not? Why do we have awareness?
lucid dreams happen
Wasn’t there a study done on how dogs actually have nightmares about their “problems?”
There are Master souls among animals too.
This subject reveals the conundrum. “I see what you are saying but I still don’t get it.” That is the key… the “I” that sees but doesn’t get it doesn’t exist. That is like King Lear saying I understand that I am really John Smith, when in fact King Lear does not even exist in the first place. We seek to understand, when we that seek to understand don’t even exist. Tricky. For example, when he (the man in the audience) says “see the separate self” he is planted in the notion that there is someone, him, seeing all of this. Yet that person that is ‘seeing’ does not exist. So the notion of personal identity, I, is in and of itself the (hopefully last vestiges of the) final stand of the illusory self, the ego. The ‘seer’ here is an illusion. We are ourselves an illusion. Pure consciousness/awareness/infinity is featureless.
@william5159 That was very well said. you are correct, It does expose a bit of a riddle or paradox, and here's how I had to compartmentalize it to try and grasp it.
Every time we try to understand something, we use the word "I", as a reference point or bearing. (it's partly the limitation of our language constructs.) Which sort of reaffirms in our imagination, that there is actually some separate entity inside us called the Self, or me. What seems to make these concepts complex is what I termed for my own understanding the "self-referencing loop problem." It's very difficult for people to conceptualize that "All of it" is just one consciousness creating many activities or excitations, that we perceived as separate objects. It's the wave and water analogy. We can see the wave and the ripples clearly, but if you try to remove the wave from the ocean, all you get is water. The wave is the "activity of the ocean", it's not separate from water. It's difficult.
@@mrkcioffi Indeed, also well said. It’s a ‘trip’ yeh? Hahaha.
Why are the others laughing like they are mocking the questioner? He is honestly trying to understand and making valid questions
All cats, dogs & donkeys have memories thoughts limited to it's form, human form is the only form within our awareness where consciousness the brahma has potential to go beyond the form and see itself or merge within it to give that form the ultimate state of supreme human.
Thank you sincerely Rupert and Jonas for this clear and BEAUTIFUL dialogue ❤
However, I do not understand why the INFINITE OMNIPRESENT-OMNISCIENT-OMNIPOTENT SELF, peacefull and joyous (John Smith) would knowingly decide to put on the clothes of a finite mind (king Lear) to expérience a dreamlike world ..... and then feel misérable ? Please help me to understand ! Thank you !
Why do we dream?
Brilliant.
Animals in nature are enlightened. That's why they react nice to enlightened high vibrational people. But get angry and attack low vibrational people.
BRILLIANT. ~D
That was absolutely hilarious 😆😆😆😆😆 I’m in bits here 😆
Consciousness having a human experience.
3:30 - "It's hard to grasp this." - "No, no!"😂😂😂