How Can Consciousness Have Multiple Experiences at Once?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- A man asks how consciousness can have multiple experiences simultaneously. This clip has been taken from Rupert's Seven Day Retreat at the Garrison Institute in October 2018. To listen to the full audio, please visit the link below.
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#rupertspira #nonduality #happiness #natureofreality #consciousness #awareness #meditation #guidedmeditation
looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking inside a radio for the announcer
The announcer is looking and is exactly the same as everything we’re aware of beside the existence of the announcer. Crystal lol
@@Puuws what?
Consciousness is playing a game of hide and seek. If we get to know all the secrets,then there is no more game to play.
beautiful
🤣😂🤣🤣
Rupert Spira is the greatest man in the world to explain reality in models. But in the end, the map is not the territory. Even to say it's a map is to give it to much a credit. Any search for truth is a mindgame. When you drop your search and questions regarding truth, that is when you "drop" your mind and find that you ARE the truth. And all there is..is experiencing.., mysterious and obvious at the same time. Obvious in the way that you find any "search" for truth as foolish(since you ARE the truth). Take care! Love you❤️
So true...my gratitude for this little extra push to get me from the little me 'searching' into the 'trust' of I Am.
Very, very good opinion. Agree and That’s why I converted to Buddhas teaching, but was born into christianity. Absolutely not wrong with a beleive in Jesus and God, but we ARE already the devine inside, without a creation in time! Love you back and Namaste 👍🕉🌺
Interesting , last night in between waking and sleep that narrow slit where your not here nor there I had a thought that said I’m the truth and a fiction at the same time . Sometimes I feel all this searching I’m doing is in a way the obstacle yet my fascination with the truth keeps me curious and the momentum going.
True, mind must vanish and it will fight you because it doesn’t want to go as Dylan Thomas once penned “ gently into that good night” it wants to “ rage rage against the dying of the light [mind].
Avatar Meher said it best decades ago when he discoursed:
“Mind wants to know that which is beyond mind. To know that
which is beyond mind, mind must go-vanish, leaving no vestige
of itself behind. The humour of it is, the mind, which is finite,
wants to retain itself and yet know Truth, which is infinite. This is
the position of those who seek Truth through intellect. Few grasp
this fact, and so most grope and grapple in vain. “
-Meher Baba
Rupert is worlds no 1 spiritual teacher 🙏
Rupert has a beautiful deep gentle syrupy voice. I could listen to him for hours on end. He would easily play the God character in a film, sharing his wisdom.
Hahahaha yep
So true addictive
First of all, I really enjoy Rupert's method. One thing I've come to notice now though is that this model of teaching has the disadvantage that the person answering can't really think too deeply about the question. I think this is a disadvantage because it's hard to understand what the questioner's problem really is.
Like here, I feel like the issue isn't that the questioner thinks that he can't have two experiences at once, he's rather having an issue with the idea that one's main attention can be fixed to two aspects of experience at one time. He might be aware of the mic, or attentive to someone's voice, and still not be attentive to the fact that his foot is touching the ground, and to the fact that there's a certain quality of feeling attached to that experience; there are always levels of awareness to certain experiences.
Then comes the second issue, that he thinks that this kind of attention is analogous to consciousness being at several places at the same time. Which, it seems to me, means that he thinks that awareness of something equals consciousness of something, but whatever experience I'm aware of is something that's entered consciousness. I always focus on a part of consciousness, and not to be focused on something doesn't mean that it's unconscious.
I guess this means that the issue is also semantical, how do we define awareness, how do we define consciousness? When I say awareness, I seem to mean the fact that I use one or more senses to aim at some object of the senses and to do so, I must be conscious of that object. With consciousness, I seem to mean the prerequisite for there being anything to aim one's attention at in the first place.
I mean, it must be really difficult for anyone, enlightened or not, to catch up on all of this while trying to have a conversation with somebody. o_O'
How would you apply this to breathing?
Breathing is something we do most often without intention. It is in our consciousness? We can experience the results of breathing with several sensations. When focusing on breathing explicitly, is that awareness?
I realize it isn’t that rigid but what are your thoughts?
Honestly, this fundamental question is the most challenging one to puzzle through for someone seeking to find the nondual nature of consciousness.
People are conditioned into believing that differences in perspective is sepperation.
I am not aware of my all the things my nerves experience all the time, but I would never deny that they are my nerves.
But Ruperts point about our experience of yesterday being forgotten, in the same way we forget each other and everything in between. This is the key. It's sad it wasn't enough for the seeker he is responding too.
For me, it’s a great point, but it remains theoretical and not experiential. It’s a great point that, while I believe I had an experience exactly 5 years ago, I don’t remember it exactly. I see how that can extrapolate to the possibility of “forgetting” or excluding simultaneous experiences. However, this is just a thought, and not a direct experience I am currently having (as far as I’m aware, or as I’m interpreting my experience)
From a prism, light is refracted in many different places simultaneously.
It’s a good question and a very wonderful answer 🙏 thank you Rupert 🌸 you’re amazing
Logical contradictions implies duality. Questions are dual to answers.
Does God not exist?
The question of God is an ongoing question called evolution in science.
The universe, reality, objectification, actualization become questions for the search for absolute truth.
Start is dual to finish.
The big answer is dual to the big question!
God is dual to that which is not God (privation).
The question or concept of God is a duality.
Truth is dual to falsity.
Hume's fork: Absolute truth is dual to relative truth, the objective is dual to the subjective.
Noumenal (rational, eternal) is dual to phenomenal (empirical, finite) -- Immanuel Kant.
Energy is dual to mass -- Einstein
Dark energy is dual to dark matter.
"Always two there are" -- Yoda, duality or two aspects of the same thing.
Fantastic....this was always a sticky point for me, but it is so clear now. ....Another helpful experience for me is realizing that even in my own awareness I can dissociate in a waking state (dreaming, of course, too as he explains)....for instance, in a waking state when I am driving on the freeway and become lost in thought or conversation....my mind can completely lose track of my drive, and a couple hours may go by during which I am absorbed completely in something besides driving which my consciousness must also be making decisions about. I have consciousness that knows how to drive without requiring my foreground awareness....the car to pass, the speed changes, the exit to take etc. However, if there is a sudden urgency to become very aware, I immediately am present as driver to deal with the car that pulls out in front of me, etc.
My localized consciousness is aware of things that "I" am not seemingly aware of.
I miss my turns when I'm deep in conversation when I drive
Amazing question!
His question essentially is 'how can one consciousness have multiple experiences?'
The answer is clear. That the one consciousness CANNOT have multiple experiences.
From the one consciousness point of view, there is just one experience. And this quality is shared by the one consciousness with our mind as well, that we cannot experience two things at the same time. The hearing and looking at Rupert are not simultaneous, but in rapid quick succession. Because of the rapidity, the hearing and looking at Rupert appear simultaneous, but really they are not simultaneous.
Similarly, one consciousness has one experience, the experience of the whole.
At the level of one consciousness, there are no differentiations of many, yet, things become many at the level of mind. That's why the one consciousness is also described as one in many and many in one.
Updesh Sharma, Kaushitaki Upanishad says thus;
*When consciousness rules the mind, we can think all thoughts*.
It's not speech which we want to know, we should know the speaker.
It's not things seen which we should want to know, we should know the seer.
It's not the sound which we want to know, we should know the hearer.
It's not mind which we should want to know, we should know the thinker. Namaste
Great explanation !
The questioner is still under the impression that he is the same person moment to moment. This is an illusion. We are constantly being reborn each millisecond. Think of it this way: you could wake up each day as a different person, and you’d never know, because you would always have the memories of the person you woke up as. That’s how strong the illusion of “self” is. You can actually experience this by smoking enough weed to the point where your hippocampus gets impaired and you can’t remember what happened 5 seconds ago. Once your memories are gone, the illusion goes too.
The universe is experiencing itself every millisecond through whatever sentient vessel it can.
Science has already acknowledged that there’s no single point inside your brain for a “self” to exist. The “self” you think you are is literally the conscious universe experiencing itself but since it’s not physically connected to other parts of itself (aka other people’s minds, animals, etc) in a way that it can communicate, the illusion of being separate persists. Not to mention, there are parts of the brain which are believed to be responsible for maintaining an ego, which if turned off (often through meditation or various psychedelics) the illusion of separation between “self” and the rest of the universe dissolves.
Imagine a day in which we can physical connect our minds in a way that made sense. We would then realize that we were never separate to begin with. Our seemingly separate experiences would merge together.
The True Self aka God as a single “entity” exists outside of both space and time, but is experiencing itself through an infinite number of forms through both the dimensions of space (other people’s minds) and time (what you though 5 seconds ago).
Nonduality points to the fact that differentiating between one and infinity is also a duality. One IS infinity and infinity IS one. Differentiation is a concept that the mind does. So, when speaking of whether consciousness is one or infinite, the difference is only conceptual.
Consciousness as Rupert says is One, but it’s also infinite, but again, the difference between the two is just a duality, a conceptual differentiation which does not ACTUALLY exist in reality.
Great reaction! 👌 Thnx for sharing
Lol, what's up with that profile pic epicbehavior?
@epicbehavior what does "aka" mean?
@@silvinaalterman aka= Also Known As
My motto: "Google knows everything" ;)
@@tryadifferentone354 that's just his epic behavior 😜
If you relax; local awareness spreads out again & you are not as locked in individual identity. It's hard to accept because the ego wants to protect itself, but you don't need to listen to the ego just because it throws a tantrum:)
Can the witness be witnessed? Can the observer be observed? Can the Seer be seen? Be aware without objects you are the One Pure Reality you are That Parabrahman 🙏🕉️ Namaste
Namaste. The Witness cannot be witnessed because if the Witness is witnessed, then Witness becomes part of the crime scene. If this is the case, then we must look for another witness who witnesses the previous witness and what he had witnessed. The true and final Witness is like behind in a mirror looking out at the world projected from within the mirror. The true Witness is hidden and does not have properties that are witness-able (measurable). therefore the Witness is the Nothing-ness. Now the "man in the mirror" witnesses all which passes in front of it. The mirror is everywhere, in each of us behind perception. The mirror produces creation/life. Each point in the mirror reflects something but stays pure as the antidote of each creation. Therefore all parts of the mirror are the same, but only if it is simple witnessing and not getting attached to the witnessed. If the Witness gets attached, fearful et cetera, then it will become a prisoner to the witnessed. Then the Witness would have "fallen down to a lower level" of consciousness and will lie to you, that you are the prettiest of them all, because that is how you want to be judged.
@@sheikmunjah2241 Namaste yes the witness has no attribute neither quality..It is beyond form, name, time and space.. Purusha and Prakriti are One and the Same.. It is obvious that the seen cannot be the Seer and the Seer if Seen was no the true Seer..Emptiness and nothingness are our true nature, a deep inner silence which is still and doesn't come into manifestation.. HARI OM 🕉️🙏🏵️
The point: consciousness transcends our limited idea and belief of what space and time exists as.
This is too complicated for me. My hats off to the rest of you. I have to go do a spreadsheet....and feed the cat!
🤣🤣🤣
@@AlaskaPants Spreadsheets are too complicated for me. Easier is this: Pretend a guy named Mateo knows all of London. One night he has a dream that he is someone named Matthew who only knows one street in London. In the dream, Matthew believes London is not himself. He believes London is an object "out there" that is not himself and that he only knows one street. It's a really vivid dream. But when Mateo wakes up, he realizes this idea of being just Matthew and not knowing all of London was only a dream. In the same way, we can wake up and realize that all our little Matthew-like ways of looking at things (as if we don't know everything!) are just a dream. And for fun, pretend that your cat understands everything I just said and knows that you are, well, God. Keep an eye on that cat, heh heh!
Stay with it, don't call off the search. There is clearly some longing within you to discover your Self. Perhaps watch some other videos, even other teachers, then come back to this one another time when your understanding deepens. One step at a time, no spread sheet required, but don't forget to feed the cat.
Hahaha! You’re doing it right.
Chop wood, carry water.
@@davidthomson802 so nicely put and understandable, thanks David 👌💚
The radio broadcast the same signal every where but each radio set reproduce that only one signal in different ways I have never had problem in understanding this very basic concept of non duality
As Rupert i don't think you understand the questioner either i think. In your metaphor we have to add one thing. Knowing. Which we are. The radio signal is now not only a signal, it's a knowing signal. If we are that knowing signal we should be aware of all outputs at once.
This is where the questioner get stuck. Signal for radio is fine. But a knowing signal is a bit different.
Like the space and rooms in a house metaphor. If consciousness is the space in the house. The rooms do not divide the space. But in this metaphor as well, consciousness should know all rooms simultaneously.
Then, if we are that infinite consciousness, why do we not know all minds? Then it seems more accurate to say we are the finite mind, at least for these kinds of metaphors.
@@jfilm4518 I have difficulties to understand even 1 wave XD
Infinite Awareness, the eternal Now, is outside of time, space and movement, so there can be no sequentiality, only simultaneity - a reality our temporal mind simply cannot grasp.
I have had a lucid dream on a new source of energy that is a "Topological Anomalous Quantum Hall Effect". An infinite mind related a prototype molecular gas cloud chamber that present science has not yet to realize. Although science is still only working on bulk materials, they are still formulating the cellular structures with computerized syntheses of thousands of composites for development that produces the desired phenomena. This is more about a complexity of quantum phase transitions where an exotic time-reversal symmetry takes place.
Let me tell you a pathway that makes you perfectly accept that: a psychotic break. I guarantee! I had 2! It's been a trudge to recover, but I can totally accept consciousness having many experiences at the same time. It's a shortcut that I would not recommend overall, but it does work. It's not like I was looking for this specific shortcut, but once I was placed in front of that door I was pushed into it, I know I didn't push it, still looking for my pusher... We need to have a serious conversation :)
Funny you say this because I absolutely relate and have had a couple myself. Always felt like I was searching for myself internally, and I was on the trail via natural intuition, and only discovering Buddhism and Rupert did it finally click that I was naturally inclined towards that truth. And the psychotic break were terrifying but they were also grounded in truth because there is no static thing behind the eyes called self bundled as thoughts feelings and perceptions, and my tendency towards impulsive creativity and thinking for myself led to these breaks. And These breaks also forced me into a position to surrender and I began meditating and found for the first time in my life what peace truly felt like.
Also, I tried 5 meo dmt with spiritual /consciousness expansion in mind, and it indeed blew my consciousness as an ego experience wide open, felt similar as a psychotic break in a way for sure! I have zero regrets and feel like it was the most incredible experience of my life that left me humbled and in awe of reality /existence/life.
@@bulletsmichael I probably differ from you in this: I am not without my struggle. In hindsight my psychotic breaks did gifted me with a few things, but on balance, the negative consequences still outweigh what I gained, because whether I like it or not, I still have to live in this world, and this world very much still looks at these types of breakdowns as an unwanted reality. It has come some way from the middle ages, and some social supports are in place, but let me tell you, even though people like saying in public how they are rid of their stigmas, in private they keep on spewing their prejudices.
I calculated something this morning: the social assistance I got from the state for being impaired for quite sometime due to the break, awarded me in 11 years the same as it awards a University professor in 2... In my mind I overpassed the University professor in 10 days of being hospitalized...Does this make sense? No... But that's this world and I am back here...so I can't say I am not grateful some days for a lot of it, but most days my struggle still wins...
@@tryadifferentone354 I see and I understand and empathize. The struggle is still real for everyone, but now from the more awake perspective, it changes how I perceive and experience the struggle oh, I can say that much is for sure.
How so? You mean you experienced as Consciousness being aware of TWO PERSON'S POV AT THE SAME TIME?
True but Universal Mind can experience all thoughts.
Example from “Lord Meher”:
“During a stage of avatar Meher Baba’s regaining worldly consciousness, Meher Baba began experiencing the thoughts of all human beings in the universe. The individual thoughts of those persons in the gross world , irrespective of whether they were near ( on earth) or far ( in another galaxy) , would instantaneously pour into his universal mind at the moment they were created ( thought). The numerous thought-waves were so forceful and so tremendously rapid, it is virtually impossible to describe their effect. The very process of “ infinite” thinking was rushing through Meher Baba’s individual mind, he could withstand it only because his mind had become “ universal.”
Thought-waves vibrate faster than any speed known to man; thus , all thought-waves of all humanity on earth would stream into and permeate Meher Baba’s universal mind in a few minutes. At the beginning of this particular stage of Meher Baba’s coming down , when his universal mind was starting to function , one day he was sitting alone by a canal at Sakori. Within a few minutes , the force of the thoughts of thousands and thousands of persons on earth entered his universal mind. The impact of it was so tremendous that Meher Baba became extremely agonized as if his mind was being pulled apart by all the contradictory thoughts. He soon became extremely uneasy and restless , and at that time, he had to submerge his head underwater in the canal to try to break the shock! He had his head underwater several minutes until his individual mind found relief”
~
“The Biography of the Avatar of the Age Meher Baba Volume One 1894-1922”
al fogel Become the void.
That was a remarkable answer. Answered it in two sentences as far as I’m concerned.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! We are a dream in the conciousness that will last about 90 years, and will have to end💖🙏
I have a more complex suggestion. Consciousness is like breathing, it keep going ON and OFF, or let's say come and go. As you know time is an illusion, consciousness have plenty of times to come and go in every single living being within a certain frame of time, for an example, a little millisecond. What's define your ego is your brain, so does your memories, so then when consciousness come into you it has no clue of what just happened outside your own perspective. That's why meditation is sooo powerful, it makes you "more often" conscious, that way you take back the control of your thoughts, our feelings and emotions. If you go further and further, you may even find out who you really are. 🧘♂️
I like the idea of conciousness as a toggle makes me think of first priciples how brai needs energy and how could it compute so much information for its wattage, maybe the information is equal to power usage yet seems more, yet gives rise to qualia by streching that information into a prediction.
We are one consciousness divided into many. You can experience for instance looking at a red ball in the middle of a room together with your friend and understand that this friend sees the same ball from a different angle. But you both see the same red ball. The fact is that this red ball is in your both's field of vision. Different location is an experience of one consciousness dividing into multiple, which is you and your perspective and your friend and his perspective. But there's only ONE red ball existing in the room.
Bahut. Bahut. Gretitude. Thanks.
One thing that is fascinating about the realm of imagination is the ability to in some way unforget what consciousness knows fully, that being to somehow witness the life as someone else as if it was a vivid memory of your own consciousness
I see it took half an hour to come to the conclusion that you both have always agreed. What I understood from the question is that the questioner wanted from the beginning to explore that intermediate step that occurs in the process of localization and limitation in a single point of view. Also my experience include something like that.... a sort of middle “world” in the process in which infinite consciousness begun to color itself with a single shape and gradually collapse into a single point of retransmission and manifestation. taking our steps backwards in reasoning passes that way. at least as such it has been for me. No doubt that Rupert is the best in reasoning, I appreciate also the honesty of the questioner... and I love the irrational one week experiment Rupert offers him, because it addresses to the felt sense... and in that way, the heart 💜 is the master. 🙏🏾
The man in the audience insists that his space-time perception is all that exists and the only valid one. He should try shrooms or LSD. He needs to experience non-locality, expanded awareness and timelessness for himself.
agree on that his consciousness still in 3d linear world.
That’s solipsism. I think you’re strawmanning him. He never said that he thinks his mind is the only mind that exists. In fact he was saying the opposite. If there are so many different minds with different subjective experiences then how can they all be said to be the same consciousness? That was his question.
@@1999_reborn thanks for your comment. I can't be sure if that was meant as an insult, but in any case, the term strawmanning doesn't really apply. I think I understood his objection. He doesn't understand how the awareness of so many individual minds could be unified by one consciousness. I reiterate: He has not experienced non-local, unbounded awareness. My prescription for this limitation is either psychedelic drugs (mentioned above) or a rigorous, yet humble meditation practice.
I want to speak with you Mateo!
"...though hearing, they do not hear or understand". I've been in this situation, like Mateo in this video. To understand pure consciousness, we have to remove the veil of our belief system, perceptions, thoughts, etc.
I think Rupert totally missed the point of Mateo's question. It is actually about why solipsism wouldn't more reasonable and parsimonious that inferring that there are other minds we cannot directly experience. In the same vein, it is also about the absurdity of saying a single mind can hold mutually exclusive experiences simultaneously and yet still be regarded as one single mind.
It makes me wonder if Rupert even has a good answer to the question.
This is exactly my question. It is actually the limitation of language. It should be rather said like that there is only 1 consciousness (the the dream of the being or god) in which our existences are the different dream characters. When we investigate, we get the glimpses of our true nature the 1 consciousness. This is how I understood it.
The analogy was helpful with understanding.
Hi Rupert. Always glad to hear your talks. Have you ever researched the amazing similarities (there are differences also of course) between your ontology and that of Saint Maximus the Confessor regarding the Logos and logoi? Juxtapose this to atman and Brahman. It is , I believe, truly amazing how the ontology of India and Christianity meet
The question is not whether consciousness can have different experiences at the same time. Of course it does. The guy wants to know whether one person can have different lives in other dimensions at the same time. That is why he says that Rupert misunderstood him.
You as Rupert dont understand the questioner. you say "The question is not whether consciousness can have different experiences at the same time. Of course it does." Then if we are this consciousness why dont we have different experiences at the same time? This is what the questioner wants an answer to.
When “you” dream at night, “others” may appear IN the dream. “They” may speak to “you.” Do these appearances have “minds?” Or do “you” imagine “them” to? What are these appearances made of? Is there any substance to these appearances other than the knowing of them? Why in the waking state is it assumed any differently? Why is it assumed in the waking state that these appearances have “minds?”
He was having trouble communicating his thought and Rupert wouldn't give him the time to explain in totality?
Rupert was probably excited to actually change someone's mind like that. That's a pretty beautiful moment to have as a teacher that aha moment. He got a little ansy but didn't mean anything by it
Wir können nur einen Gedanken gleichzeitig haben, aber wir switchen so schnell hin und her, dass wir glauben alles gleichzeitig wahrzunehmen.
There is something about this video that sits differently with me than all the other videos. Is it not slightly inaccurate to suggest that each body mind has its own separate consciousness- that was given birth by one infinite consciousness? If we agree that consciousness is fundamentally the absence of everything or “no-thing”, and there is no evidence to support the notion that there is more than one “no-thing”, then localizations (body minds) are not actually little pieces of infinite consciousness, but they are activities of one infinite consciousness. So their only existence is through the manifestation of or the action of the one single infinite consciousness- Awareness, Love, Infinity, The Universe, God…
Is this idea not consistent with the nondual teachings?
A Pumpky not following you
@A Pumpky I didn't understand exactly what you were saying, but I want to point out that God isn't actually void, God is reality (from my own experiences). This world is void, or at least the perceptible with our senses is void. Only the God generating this world exists.
@A Pumpky Coloring itself, that's an interesting way to put it.
But this entire model relies on the assumption that there are multiple 'localisations' of consciousness. I only experience this localisation so why would I assume more? Why project all these concepts onto reality?
Ulitarism what exactly does he mean by localization. Does he mean the totality of consciousness localizes in each of us, or just a branch of it.
@Ulitarism Other people don't experience awareness. Awareness only exists in my direct experience. That other people experience stuff is merely a projection. This projection works excellently as a model which serves as a tool to explain a lot, but it's not true. I don't get why Rupert didn't mention this once.
@@garrettdenny3643 I think he means a branch. But I don't get how that's significant?
@Ulitarism He says his model is better than the materialist's because his' doesn't assume another substance. But it does. What is the substance of a "forgotten thought"? There is no such thing. How can something that isn't be made of the same thing that is? Consciousness is Being. Of course we can think of a forgotten thought but that is not the thing Rupert is trying to think of when he says "forgotten thought".
He did call it [just] a model, but called solipsism madness. I don't understand this, since solipsism, how I use it, is not meant as a model.
@Ulitarism yes non-dualism cannot be symbolised. Neither can anything really. A symbol is just an understanding projected onto another thing. "The map is not the territory." So really you can symbolise it anyway you want, though it doesn't mean you will understand it better. You should interpret teachings merely as pointers.
Yeah, I keep getting distracted when meditating because I want to explain everything. Consciousness is not rational.
Rupert, I love your videos with all my heart, thank you dear friend for sharing.
if our consciousness is not embodied in a physical form (we exists as one with the ever present eternal now) do we maintain any sense of “I” as the knower relative to what can be known? What does ever present now, practically, look like assuming we could fathom it?
Also, any thoughts on how Bhakti connects with the model you discuss here? In the Shrimad Bhagavtam, it seems (in my humble, novice experience) Bhakti Vedanta maintains a sense of individuality in pursuit of devotion to Bhagavan, and at the same time Bhakti merges the two… so there is individuality and Union. I wonder if that total union also leads to the same ever present now now discussed in non-duality. And once again, can the lover know its beloved without some semblance of individuality or “I.”
I wonder how Bhakti and non-duality relate to one another.
When you take a profoundly high dose of psychedelics and experience transcendental identity dissolution (ego death), do you become:
1. The Dreamor with full focus on the Dreamee?
2. The Dreamor with full focus on or the Dreamor?
3. The Dreamee with full focus on or the Dreamee?
4. The Dreamee with full focus on the Dreamor?
5. Something else?
Amazing and I get it!!!!
I think he was trying to say that if we're all the same conscious how is it we have individuality. I think we would all have to be enlightened or awakened to see each other as one and see passed the vessel. Maybe individuality only comes from the finite mind but then is it consciousness making decisions and choices adding to the individuality of a person?
12:29: Mary & Jane
I think he is talking about the egoic individuality which he is confusing with the word same consciousness
Things don't blur when you're not focused on them, awareness doesn't focus it experiences everything that is happening now
Thank Mateo for this question. why he wasnt satisfied by answer is that if Im infinite awareness and consciousness in which everything appears why am I not experience others thoughts for example? I was stuck with it also and probably
The answer is that nothing exists really, if you look after the thoughts, perceptions etc you can't find one. and the one who wants to know and see those is mind, if we achieve calm state of mind probably we can see more... i would like to talk to Rupert about this subject. if anyone has clear vision about this pls enlighten me
When I add individual angle I make the concsiousness limited and equate limited with unlimited...and the problem arises ... concsiousness is unlimited and if replaced with awareness .. probably the difference will be better understood..one object surfacing from the soup of many..for each in the greater whole of concsiousness/ awareness
I think there are multiple thoughts in each human mind also even simultaneously. It's almost like a collapse of thoughts.
Numerous errors in the Closed Captioning. These concepts are tricky enough when a person can hear every word.
Db Osho cause it’s auto generated boomer
The same mind having successive thoughts is not a contradiction. Having simultaneous but mutually unknowable thoughts is logically impossible. What can be more self-evident.
But...Matthias has experience of only Matthews...not also Mary or James....but the point being made is that infinite consciousness has multiple experiences....
Can someone sum up the test/experiment Rupert gives? That week long test based on what Rupert said earlier. Thank you ❤️
Rupert says that awareness has no limits and looked around fill the experience of multiplicity but when you are experience of mind then mind makes the time experience and there for time makes the experience of running conditions so finite mind can't understand that
Awareness has no starting and no ending point it's only present and when you are in pure awareness you can't find anything other then awareness
There was a need to listen to the questioner ........he has an expanded consciousness and wishes to understand his experiences.......Rupert was not he guide he needed.....he needs to listen to his heart and not be influenced........peace.......
Why do we think one thought and dream one dream at a time? Why not many simultaneous ones like our collective consciousness is experiencing through us?
We're all different lenses of the same consciousness.
Separate consciousnesses are what Formless Consciousness looks like when filtered thru the limitation of an individual brain. It’s how multiplicity and diversity (form) expresses itself.
No, you don't have to accept anything. This video is for people who intuitively know there is more to life than just the physical world. If that's not your thing, move along.
The principle of equivalence (duality) -- Gravitation is equivalent or dual to acceleration -- Einstein's happiest thought.
Two aspects, perspectives (experiences) of the same thing -- Duality: two sides of the same coin.
Apples fall to the ground because they are conserving duality.
Potential energy is dual to kinetic energy, energy is inherently dual.
You are the same person now but different compared to an hour ago, the passage of time means that you are different but still the same person. Same is dual to different. Personal identity or the self is dual.
The future is dual to the past -- time duality.
Beautiful conversation. I admire questioner too. And of course, rupert is the best ❤❤❤💕💕
We are spirit in physical form...consciousness having numerous experiences through all of the universe...expansion
I heard mary and jean so many times and i dont understand Is there somebody here that can tell the story in dutch. I would be so grateful and happy. Its bottering me for years now. Because i dont know why it does not want to sink in . Am i so stupid?? 😩😬😬
You can only pay attention to one thing at a time, right?
Rupert is always Right
The Master is always That.
Thank you Rupert
And once in awhile there is "bleed through" of 2 localized minds and we experience telepathy. Yes?
That was a good ride ;)
Non duality Is a metaphor contrived through the human mind how ever way you look at it.
This contradicts Ruperts former explanations in my opinion. Didn't he say you can't know anything other about anything or anyone than your knowing (perception, experience) of it ? Why does he make these crazy suggestions then ?
Can I have multiple experiences simultaneously? My own experience is, no i can't. I feel I'm more like a computer; it might seem like there's multiple things happening, or an experience of multiple tings but if we slow it down it's just jumping fast from one to other like computer multitasking in older processors.
I need help. I still see everyone as separate. Also a great analogy at 4.00mins would have been the body of a lifeform is doing a billions things at the same time every second.
❤
How's this analogy: Each leg of a millipede has its own sensory perceptions that are not reported by any of the other legs, yet they are part of the same being.
I like this analogy except why would the millipede give each of its legs its own separate mind to believe itself as a separate identity?
Why can’t I, infinite consciousness, experience the universe from Rupert’s or Alan’s point of view?
go there in the end
This video was frustrating to watch. This is the most burning question I have had for a long time and I'm not sure if Rupert understood Mateo's point of view. I can flip flop from one viewpoint to the other but I can't prove either. On one hand you can have an infinite consciousness using a multitude of finite experiences (much like a complex eye of a fly). On the other hand you can have one infinite consciousness dreaming only one experience and within that one experience there appears to be a multitude of separate consciousnesses (just like in a real dream).
Das Experiment 25:30 💡
I'm not religious person but This is on the Bible.
Corinthians 12:12-27
I don't think he answered the question tbh
--david thor, Niagara montrecoastal, 10 Oct 2020. “David Thor” is the contraction and gradual erasure of “...octor David Ker Thomson Ph.”
Simply put: My back is itching at the same time I want to sneeze, simultaneously. Same way the Brahman can have the whole universe experience at the same time.
Hari OM Bhagavan
You can't have "multiple experiences at once", or "simultaneously". Experiences yes but not existential viewpoints.That is impossible, imho. The fact that you can have multiple experiences in a sequencial order isn't proof nor does it suggest that you can have these experiences simultaneously. Also who EVER did experience multiple experiences at once (multiple existential viewpoints !) ? I didn't. And no other being or 'consciousness' did or does experience anything through me without me knowing it. I think Rupert is making a mistake here. Only I am experiencing my consciousness, no one else does or can. My/your thoughts are mine/yours, no one else can have access to them.
Oh, c'mon... The guy wants to experience everything, even what others are experiencing? These things are possible because the kind of 'spiritual teachings' are out there which can so easily make people crazy and go for unneccesary thinking processes. You are you, and others are others. You have limited experiences, they have too. This is what being a human means. We have to choose constantly what we focus on. Our time is limited, so it is good if we can decide what is the most important in the given moment. Yes, it takes practice. But as a human, your attention is surely limited, unless you dont want to choose and sit in meditation all day long. Time passes anyways. Life doesnt give a f*ck believe me :)
I say this with no offense or judgement btw. :) Sometimes I just dont know how people get to these kind of questions, but in the end... it doesnt matter. If this helped him, or anyone, great! Love Rupert, helped me a lot as well ♥
so mathew is just in the dream of dreamer .. so is the street lights .. landscape and all others .. mathew does not exist . damn .......
Some high thinkers ranging from the average to learned layman, with a mild to strong interest in the field, through to the foremost academics on the subject matter, even the wisest monks, and other holy clergymen, tirelessly attached to many a faith would argue; that man has lost the knowledge of what he himself actually is - let alone not realising the 'mind's true full potentials' etc. as in the modern day literature of our culture, which we are often, yet insistently being reminded of. I find this quite odd as a sort of 'baiting' or at least unwittingly teasing humanity of what it already is, yet never of course delivering anymore than just the social-veil of simplistic marketing in a hollow promise of better things etc. There's a reason the monks are referred to as 'the noble ones' of course. If the above paradox is the case, it seems really quite sad indeed. Can we aspire to anything more than this? You would think so.
It has been written that for a problem to persist, it must contain a lie. If we but only casually apply this to mankind's endless search for spiritual self awareness; there may then be foreseeable lies, or at least stupidity and ignorance perpetuated on a truly mind-boggling scale.
Lol Mateo 🤦🏽♂️
He wants to protect and defend his individuality. He is afraid of what this means for his mind. He is attached to his appearant separate existence. Like many he seeks enlightenment as a way to immortalise his individual intelligence. From that point of view, accepting Rupert is death right there.
So sorry Rupert but if the person that makes the question is still doubting ,stop!! Your explanation will sink in when he is ready.
He realised this hence giving him the experiment to do - the tantric approach
Rupert Spira is clear but I find his way of investigating often quiet boring ...
"Consciousness doesn't have any particular quality." False.
The hell just happened? Lol.
In the same way as there can be many blades of grass.. Everything in existence is an energetic experience, and 'consciousness' is simply another form of energy experiencing.
It is disingenuous to say that everything is 'consciousness'. This comes from the belief that we need some kind of 'divine intervention' in order to 'do the right thing'. Making other people out to be 'dishonest' when it is YOU who are trying to insert a 'hidden' agenda, is one symptom of this disingenuousness..
But we have thousands of years of empirical evidence that 'intelligent design' is not the case, apart from the fact that our genuine method of enquiry, deduction from necessity, points to consciousness not even being a universal requirement at all.. Indeed, we see no evidence for it anywhere in the rest of existence, and it may in fact also be another human-invented term for something that does not even exist, in reality.. The plausibility factor leads us to the latter conclusion. Therefore, the most plausible solution to the 'consciousness' issue, deduced from necessity, is that consciousness is simply another evolving aspect of the motions of space (energy). As, to posit anything 'else' is simply unnecessary..
"We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances." (Sir Isaac Newton, Principia: The system of the world)
All false 'morality' must inevitably dissolve into hypocrisy when it is not founded on truth.. And indeed, this is exactly what has happened within current 'society'.. We 'do the right thing' only when we have genuine understanding of what the 'right thing' is.. When we are forced to take responsibility for our own actions, we do so, because any other action would be understood as one of insanity, leading to self-destruction, which it currently is, and as Nietzsche was able to intuit..
"There is nothing more necessary than truth, and in comparison with it everything else has only secondary value. This absolute will to truth: what is it? Is it the will to not allow ourselves to be deceived? Is it the will not to deceive? One does not want to be deceived, under the supposition that it is injurious, dangerous, or fatal to be deceived."
(Friedrich Nietzsche, 1890)
"And isn't it a bad thing to be deceived about the truth, and a good thing to know what the truth is? For I assume that by knowing the truth you mean knowing things as they really are. The philosopher is in love with truth, that is, not with the changing world of sensation, which is the object of opinion, but with the unchanging reality which is the object of knowledge. Truthfulness. He will never willingly tolerate an untruth, but will hate it as much as he loves truth. ... And is there anything more closely connected with wisdom than truth? The object of knowledge is what exists and its function to know about reality." (Plato)
"The fundamental element of the cosmos is Space. Space is the all-embracing principle of higher unity. Nothing can exist without Space. .. According to ancient Indian tradition the Universe reveals itself in two fundamental properties: as Motion and as that in which motion takes place, namely Space. This Space is called Akasa .. derived from the root kas, 'to radiate, to shine', and has therefore the meaning of ether which is conceived as the medium of movement. The principle of movement, however, is Prana, the breath of life, the all-powerful, all-pervading rhythm of the universe." (Lama Anagarika Govinda, 1969)
"Choose only one master, Nature." (Rembrandt)
'Consciousness' does not create anything. It is only possible to be 'conscious' of that which actually exists.. You can create any kind of delusion you like in your mind, but you cannot be 'conscious' of things that do not actually exist.
Beyond 'observation' there is then the process of 'interpretation', and this is where most people fail themselves..and unconsciously produce the very evidence that 'consciousness' is not 'everywhere'..
"History abundantly shows that people's views of the universe are bound up with their views of themselves and of their society. The debate in cosmology has implications far beyond the realm of science, for it is a question of how truth is known. How these questions are answered will shape not only the history of science, but the history of humanity." (Eric Lerner, 1992)
Always go with intuition where the nature of your own existence is concerned...because that's where 'intuition' comes from..
And here is why 'infinite consciousness' is an oxymoron..
People generally have a very poor understanding of what the word 'infinite' actually means.. This is not any kind of 'fault', but just that we have evolved within the confines of what appears to be a finite environment, and we thus try to look at things in finite ways, also justifying those 'finite' thoughts. When I first approached the 'problem' I had the same difficulties, so it takes our minds a lot of effort to reach another perspective of understanding, but it IS achievable..
Firstly, there cannot be more than one 'instance' of infinitude, otherwise a secondary 'thing' would render them both 'finite'. So we are describing a 'oneness'.. Also, it can have no 'beginning' nor 'ending' as these would also necessitate a secondary 'thing' (or the utter nonsense of a 'nothing'!), so we are describing 'eternity' when we apply 'time' concepts. Then, we have to admit that it can only be the one thing that interconnects all other 'things', and we deduce this to be 'Space', necessarily..
So, in terms of 'numbers', infinitude can only ever be 'one'.. ('Non-duality')
All references to 'size' or 'direction' do not apply to the nature of infinitude, and thus have no relevance to our understanding of the true nature of existence. 'Measurement' has limitations.. When we point to any position in Space, we effectively create a 'beginning' to any subsequent forms of measurement, which only has relevance to the entity desiring to understand said 'measurement'. Measuring things does not make them a main-feature of the nature of reality, only a desire of 'measurement' from a purely Human perspective.
'Math' is another finite aspect, and so has limited usage. It helps us to describe specific positions and calculate certain desirable measurements to ourselves, so that we may use finite reference points, but it breaks down at the level of describing a necessarily infinite reality. Thus, as it is with our 'senses', we need various different kinds of understanding, all working in tandem with each other to produce the 'bigger picture', and we have philosophy and psychology, arts and 'mysticism'/intuition, among others, evolved for this task. However, because we live in an 'expert' driven society, all the 'senses/methods' are at war with each other, jostling for control, when the only true understanding occurs if we emulate nature itself, and work from a foundation of wholeness..
Within infinitude everything appears to be at the 'centre' of that which it finds detectable ('observable').. So, the moment you create the perspective of a 'centre', you become that centre..Here we can find the real problem with using 'mathematics' as a tool for understanding infinite nature. We have to firstly posit the 'points' to be 'measured' in order for the measurement to take place.. And this is why we end up inventing 'things' that do not exist in reality from mathematical constructs that do not describe the truth about nature..
"Commendation from NASA for research work at Massachusetts Institute of Technology on the Earth's atmosphere and the Moon's surface for navigation of the Apollo spacecraft to the Moon..
Dr. Milo Wolff has found the structure of the electron consisting of two spherical quantum waves, one moving radially outward and another moving radially inward. The center of the waves is the nominal location of the electron 'particle'. These waves extend infinitely, like charge force. All 'particle' waves mix and contribute to each other, thus all matter of the universe is interrelated by this intimate connection between the fundamental 'particles' and the universe. The natural laws are a direct consequence of this Wave Structure of Matter (WSM), thus WSM underlies all of science."
spaceandmotion
All methods of attempting to genuinely understand must eventually lead to success, as long as we can whittle each aspect down to that which is necessary. In fact, it may well be that it is a requirement of genuine understanding to approach the 'Allness' of existential questioning from as many necessary aspects as possible, all things existent necessarily converging in truth..
The emphasis should be on genuineness and necessity, not favouring one Human-invented method over another. When it comes to truth, the Human necessity is that we must 'be it to see it', for the very reason that we ARE 'it'..
The importance of the 'mystical' aspect Humanity carries within it, and so has access to, is not 'god' in its many guises, but the intrinsic aspect of infinitude.. 'God' has been our excuse for irresponsibility, leading to false 'authoritarianism', but the real 'enlightenment' occurs when we see how necessary infinitude is.. So 'god' has just been a vehicle, a carrier of genuine understanding, not the truth itself..
The philosopher Bernardo Kastrup explains that beautifully with a metaphor about disassociate personality disorder. The same being having multiple separate points of view is well known in psychiatry.
So does philosophers Daniel Kolak and Arnold Zuboff!
No it's not possible to have 'multiple separate points of view', imho.
@@moonglow6639 It is, and that is in your direct experience.
@@moonglow6639 it’s a known studied psychiatric “disorder” :)
Sometimes i have the impression that most teachers don't help or allow questioners to fully express themself. Often we are doubtious about something without knowing why just because the doubt is not fully formulated. But once we proceed to clarify it we have the opportunity to answer the question it imply, gaining an insight that is not only a theoretical understading but an intuitive comprehension. I don't understand why this opportunity gets often ignored.
I watched something a few years ago (Maybe a follow-up to The Secret???) with Neale Donald Walsch and Michael Beckwith in which they suggested using the biblical scripture pronouncing God’s name.....”I Am that I Am,” more pragmatically by placing a comma after the word “that.”
Ruppart’s suggestion to spend the week looking at everything as himself, triggered the experience I had when consciously applying the comma experiment. For example, when crossing paths with a homeless person asking for money, interacting with an obnoxious coworker, admiring a sunset, or admiring the character of a mentor....etc, rather than judging (myself or the other) I’d consciously say silently in my head, I am that, I am. The second I Am is only to emphasize the first statement - I Am That. I remember it having a pretty significant influence on my overall mood and my ability to hold space and show compassion for others and myself.
I hadn’t yet encountered Rupert’s pointings, or practiced self inquiry, so I’m excited to try the experiment again in this deeper context.
This film is Mose's Code
Lol it's funny how I'm commenting to myself on a video about myself explaining myself to myself, on a platform created by myself
Ahaha and I am now reading a comment posted by myself to myself on a video about myself explaining myself to myself on a platform created by myself. Trippy
My mind keeps shattering 💥 each time I listen to this. I was so close to this truth back in high school - 40 years ago!! - my friend and I had versions of this same conversation. And then off to college I went, society got its hooks in me, I bought into the whole separate self business and i went to hell and back trying to figure out what was wrong with me AAAARRRRGGGHH So I return here to my starting point and recognize the truth of conscious mind, only this time I have the experience of knowing the light by having met the dark. 🙏❤️
It’s okay.. it’s always true.
Beautiful. Wellcome back "sister", "You" never left after all. True pure light.
“No tree, it is said, can grow to heaven unless its roots reach down to hell.”
― Carl Jung
But remember Rupert isn't talking about the conscious mind. He's talking about just consciousness and awareness itself. I do think you are getting it though, keep going.
@@AwakeningWings thank you 🙏
What beautiful guidance and exploration. I love Rupert's impeccable skill at explaining things of such depth...
Computer games do this all the time. Many characters, one computer. Back in the day before all these fancy parallel computing devices you could still do it with what are often referred to as interrupts or co-routines. Whatever you call them the principle is the same. Every character gets a tiny slice of time to update its behaviour. The update is so small it can't be perceived. A similar thing could be imagined to happen for people in real life. Same processor, thousands of different perspectives every second. It's a crude mechanical analogy, but it might help some.
very nicely put
Wow, it sounds so strange when you put it like that, as if we were in a simulation... it could make sense... So the one consciousness or God is playing all the characters? Simultaneously
@@Rocio-wy2eg Yes, the one consciousness is knowing/experiencing itself through many characters. One consciousness/God is knowing/experiencing itself through many people.
How I love this type of sceptical inquiry! It is important that we stay sceptical (and also open-minded) when we are to investigate the mystery of life, consciousness and experience. With open minded scepticism, we don't succumb to either naive acceptance of every idea on the one hand, or close ourselves off to new experience, wisdom and knowledge on the other. This is why curiousity is such an important virtue when it comes to maturing knowledge and wisdom.
How lovely summery, thanks! ❤😊Same is true for when we do our learning, researching and experimenting in the so called natural sciences, too. Look how far critical thinking took us in the matter only model! At last, but not the least, we are now even getting ( back ) to the consciousness only (consciousness as source) model after a few centuries of researching and evolving; see quantum physics.❤ 😊🎉
The "practice" of seeing in that particular way he gives him at the end of the video is great way to see and i was somehow similirly intuitevely known about such practice but somehow never really actually done it, i will try for the next week to keep that in mind
A simpler answer to me is that all consciousness comes from the same source. But that source is outside of our experience and manifests in conscious forms in our reality. It is the vast number of forms and different experiences that creates the illusion of separation. Once we come to realize that it is all one experience, occurring simultaneously through different forms, we are freed from the illusion
It’s like how when you have a dream the characters in the dream seem separate, you cannot read their minds or predict or control those characters, even though they are generated by your sleeping mind.
But here rupert says infinite consiousness can see all thoughts in all minds its just the characters can't read thier thoughts