Ser Bryden Tully is the most underrated commander in westeros. The idea to lure jaime to lure into a trap it was his, because he knew jaime was reckless. And the plan to make tywin go to the west was also his.
I bet three quarters of the ideas of Robb are Brynden's ones XD The Lannisters thought they fought a young impulsive 16 years old boy, while in fact they fought a seasoned fifty years old man ^^
@@henryhenriquez8526 He could not be at two places at the same time ^^ And Robb seems to follow his advices, so he's not to blame for disasters. The only problem in battles were the mills one and... Yeah, Edmure is to blame, but Brynden and Robb too, if they had tell him WHY he have to stay put in Riverrun, he would never think to fight Tywin outside of Riverrun ^^'
"For some reason, the humans realized that the White Walkers could probably maintain a siege for 500 years if they wanted to, and chose to bait them into an assault. For some reason, this was never explained to the audience."
He did send his mother to Renly with whom she struck a successful alliance which would have finished the Lanisters. Unfortunately, they couldn't predict that Stannis would send a shadow to kill Renly.
Too bad Northmen lacked anyone else they would follow as a king/queen. Imagine Robb doing the one ly thing he was really good at (leading an army), while someone with much higher Diplo stat makes strategic decisions. Hell, he should've been smart enough to name a Hand just for that.
Fun Fact: There have never been five kings at any point during the War of the Five Kings, since Renly Baratheon died before Balon Greyjoy crowned himself.
Yeah but it takes time for Renly's death to spread which is why the smallfolk take to calling it the War of the Five Kings. They believe Renly is still alive and they just recently heard of Balon's crowning.
It’s kinda lost during the show, but Jaime was actually a captive in Robb’s camp for over two years. At least in the show, Jamie seems so diminished after captivity.
i mean.. in S7 jaime left KL with a stubble then arrived at winterfell in S8 w/ a full beard.. i think sometimes they forget about it or either the pacing makes it seems like they just travled from one place to another in like a day or so
Fallout Fjorn This is still early season stuff, about as safe as you can get for the moment. Plus, he's using book info to flesh it out and that will always win you points in this fandom.
It was a brilliant move, cut off the supply chain. Starve tywin of fresh troops, fresh steel, and fresh food. Most importantly cut off lanister gold, if only Robb had committed to the long strategy rather than a short one.
Well it was edmures fault because tywin was going to defend his land except at the stone mill edmure pushed him back and robb was going to bring tywin to Lannis port then because the starks where mounted he was going to get around him and trap him in the west. But because edmure didnt know this and stopped the crossing giving time for word of Stannis attack on kings landing to reach him so he turned his army around. So of edmure didnt stop the crossing Stannis would have taken kings landing and robb would have trapped tywin in the west.
@UCyWP_ou-tng-WqHPRmnddvQ To be fair, Edmure was most likely ordered to remain and defend Riverrun. His marching out on his own to claim his own victory and glory is perfectly in line with his character. Robb's failing was relying on a man that he had very little personal experience with.
Sean Kirby it was Robb’s fault for not informing Edmure of his plan to trap Tywin in the Westerlands. He should’ve anticipated that Edmure would fight Tywin if he came back through the Riverlands.
Kings & Generals have covered the Battle of the Bastards, so now I want see the real Battle of Ice with Stannis going Alexander Nevsky on everyone asses.
@LagiNaLangAko23 Yes, it would have been suspicious if Edmure let Tywin cross unimpeded, but stopping the Lannisters dead in their tracks was really bad fortune.
A young man is sitting in his room playing video games when he gets a notification from UA-cam. Bazbattles has uploaded a new video. He grabs his cheetos and reclines his chair and settles in.......... a new video from Bazbattles is about to begin.
The moment Robb lost was when Edmure Tully decided to stop Tywin from passing into the Westlands. Robb had planned to destroy Tywin with an ambush and Stannis meanwhile would have crushed King's Landing.
He didn't want to destroy Tywin, he wanted to trap him; in fact Edmure's instructions was to retreat to the side and let Tywin pass, then snap the blockade of the Westerlands shut BEHIND Tywin, this would mean that if Tywin wanted to defend King's Landing from Stannis he would've had to face all of the Riverlords behind him, and Robb Stark in front of him in the Westerlands. It's not really an ambush, more like encirclement which would've been absolutely catastrophic (bear in mind, Tywin didn't actually know that Stafford's army was defeated at Oxcross, Tywin probably thought he could surround Robb Stark with one army to the West of him, and his army to the East; instead Stafford Lannister was dead and Robb and the Riverlords wanted to trap Tywin. He was very lucky that it was Edmure and not the Blackfish that was commanding the army in front of him.
Nah. It was a strategic error sending Theon Turncloak. If he doesn't send him away he keeps his hostage and keeps Winterfell and keeps Jaime as prisoner. That single decision cost him everything.
@@SteveMcClaren98 To be fair, the fault lies in Balon Greyjoy for thinking he would actually have a chance to subjugate the Northern Lords rather than just joining the combined attacks against the Lannisters who were far wealthier and had a very small navy compared to them or Stannis Baratheon. And to be fair, at least he knew the Lannisters had no honor and would probably let him keep his stolen lands, but if the North/Stannis won they would've forced him to return any stolen Lannister territory.
You can't blame Edmure. Robb did not inform him about the big plan. Edmure did what he thought was the right thing to do. In the end, Robb lost because he was in a losing position from the start. You cannot expect everything to go according to plan.
If they could. The lanisters were not so powerful in soldiers. They only had money. But, If money were all, Robert wouldn't be King. Soldiers won the battle. Anyway, all the Lirds were wealthy.@UnitedTheLegend
I legitimately love you for flushing this Battle out. When I read about all these details in the book I had so much hope the show would capitalize on the cook details of the twins landscape and Robb's ability to worg. Thank you for this 😊
Thanks so much for including the Battle of the Camps with this one. Please stick to book lore only as well, the extra details and intrigue are far better then in the show :D
Robb's battle tactics were simply amazing. He would have won if it weren't for all the betrayals. Tywin is so lucky the Freys and Boltons were traitors. Robb was not going to fail.
What? People expect him to do this kind of video for, say the Battle of the Bastards? There's literally no background to any of the series' original battles, so rest easy.
It's a shame that we didn't get a real video, just this bollocks instead (and I say that as a GoT fan). There is no need for these silly videos, why can't we get real history instead? This channel has lost so much ground to Kings and Generals, History Marche etc. despite once being the King, and it's taking no steps to regain what it once had.
@@felixblack1106 Bullshit. Making cop out videos about a few vague lines in a book trying to pander to GoT fans, they're the kings of nothing. Your second sentence makes me believe that you're a youtube history channel casual, because there's a plethora of now superior channels. I'll list the shit out of them for you if you're looking for enlightenment.
@@ChrisDyn1 Well I mean Kings and Generals do Game of Thrones vids as well and we all still love that channel, Bazbattles still usually does historical battles so there's nothing wrong really
Laszlo Official The fact that you can critique something shows how much you love it. Season 8 was not good, that’s a fact. You can like it if you want, but objectively the writing was bad.
@@jorgeferreira2009 an Impossible number of opinions. Regardless of how many people agree with you, the quality of art is relative and there can never be a factual definition as to whether it is good or bad.
@@otterhero6229 can't argue with that. I guess that people were just disappointed on how things turned out, but hey; it was 8 seasons and truth be told, it was still a great show.
It's so sad when you remember Edmure undid all of this by fighting Tywin's men outside Riverrun. This gave envoys from the south enough time to reach Tywin with news of Stannis's attack on King's Landing, so he turned back to defeat Stannis. Had Tywin continued to march west, his whole army could have been massacred and the war ended.
Then Stannis would have taken Kingslanding and Robb could marry Margery and Edmure to the Frey girl. The Frey's would still see it as a slight on Robb's part but his first born son could marry a Frey and take her as his queen and everything would be cool for the most part
Instead we All blame Edmure for his "Error" to attack the mill where the mountain were, Edmure and his forces were not "Told" to follow a certain plan just to drive Tywin and his men West. 1 Word "Communication" it's the fatal Error sometimes. If Edmure "Knew" Robbs plans along with Robb's "Deal" with Stannis to lure Tywins Army west and not to Kings landing Then Tywin would Have moved west but Edmure's attack Alerted him... It's sad Stannis would Have taken The trone, have Tyrion, cersei and her childern in chains if not Already Dead and Tywin would Agree to insane terms in order to secure a peace deal simliar to The treaty of Versailles completly breaking house Lannister
Although, yes, I agree that lack of communication was indeed a problem, however, Robb also couldn’t risk sending a raven from where he was at towards Edmure to tell him those plans. Note that these strategic plans would have been made directly after Catelyn returned to Robb from her diplomatic mission down south and no one else knew the info she was bringing. And no one had expected Stannis to defeat his brother and absorb his army to then immediately make a move on King’s Landing. Only Catelyn possessed this info she was giving to Robb. So if Robb had sent a message telling Edmure the new plan with Stannis to rush King’s Landing while Tywin was distracted, the Lannister forces could have shot down any raven or rider sent. If that happened, the Lannisters would have discovered this new information too and it would have immediately been reported up the Lannister chain-of-command to Tywin. Thus, the plan would have been ruined even without Edmure doing anything. You have to understand that the logistics of communication back when militaries had no radios, no satellites, and no telegrams was a hell of a lot more difficult back then than it is now. Any messages sent out had a lot more risk of being intercepted and never even making it to their intended destination. So communication from the field (especially if in hostile territory) all the way back to base was not only difficult, but specific details must also be left out in case of interception. In the end though, this event was supposed to show that mistakes happen in war, even if they were well-intentioned mistakes. What unfortunately got cut from the show though was the scene where Robb Stark openly praises Edmure Tully in front of the court as a war hero for his brave actions in driving off The Mountain and saving Riverrun. But then when all the other vassals and subjects are no longer around them, that’s when Robb reprimands Edmure in private for messing up their plans. This was supposed to symbolize how a leader is intended to act with their followers: *To openly praise your subordinates in public for their actions, where they can be seen by others; but to criticize them for their faults in private, so they will learn and not be publicly humiliated.*
his orders were to hold Riverrun. Edmure sought glory and left the defenses of the castle and attacked Tywin. communication was clear. Riverrun was the castle. the Riverlands is the region.
@@9822703 Edmure did it in the books because Tywin's men were butchering women and children. Riverrun was full of refuges who lost their homes to Tywin and The Mountain. He attacked Tywin because he felt it was his job to defend his land and his people
@@gfilmer7150 not denying that, but most of the riverlords were sent home to reclaim their lands which is why holding riverrun isn't a hard task to understand. edmure not having enough men pulled the garrison from the twins to aid in his battle of the fords which was an unnecessary. The battle risked soldiers they could not afford to lose. had he lost that would have been a whole new disaster. however, he ventured out first for vengeance as he was humiliated during the first siege of Riverrun where he was captured. this time he seeks glory and Catelyn questions his judgement. not blaming him 100 percent. The orders were obvious and his mistake wasn't the battle necessarily but the removal of the garrison from the Twins to do battle.
Unfortunately for us Stark lovers this is a story smh plot had to save Tywin and all of em but if this was real yeah there’s no way the Starks woulda lost.
@@leonpaelinck Lysa and Balon not supporting this war for independence on the side of Robb was the biggest issue. If Robb had a larger support base, from people who SHOULD have supported them - then he would have won. But GoT is character focused rather than warfare/kingdom management focused
These are so helpful to those of us who are visual learners. I’ve read these battles multiple times, but your videos bring them to life in my mind. Nine times out of ten the books are better, for me, battles are the one out of ten I choose imagery. Hope you do more from the ASOIAF series!
rob (king in the north) : sends theon to his dad to convice him to help rob in this war balon (theon's dad) : proclaims himself as the king of the iron islands and attacks the north
Because of the actor playing Stannis was so much older on the show I forgot that he was Roberts younger brother until you mentioned it and reminded me even though I've read the entire series multiple times. That just shows how much the more recent show information can overshadow the older book info. It makes me think I need to reread the series again now that the show is over and we are waiting for the next book to be released
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Now that I am done with my Uni exams, I can’t stop waiting for your videos with excitement. I was late by 15 mins, next time would be as soon you upload :D
@@CodyWalsh-z9c Ambushes are a pretty basic strategy that don't need much skill, not saying he didn't do great, he did, but even a bad comander couldn't have lost those battles.
Man this is uncanny, I thought earlier to myself that I hope your channel uploads a new video about battles in GoT. Opened UA-cam and it just popped up!
have you ever thought about doing other fantasy battles like Lord of the Rings and Warcraft heck even Final Fantasy I love your videos just wondering is all
A couple of things to note: 1. Jaime's camps at Riverrun (or at least the one facing Robb) were fortified with stakes and ditches, not completely undefended as depicted, and the first phase of the assault was to kill the sentries and remove the stakes for the cavalry attack. 2. Jaime's camps didn't need to be that exposed, since any competent commander would have built pontoon bridges to link his camps. This kind of thing wasn't unusual in the least during the Middle Ages (see the sieges of Chateau Gaillard and Aiguillon). 3. Robb's plan was never to launch a surprise raid on the Westerlands, but to take the Golden Tooth and draw Stafford away from Lannisport so that the Greyjoys could take it/raid the coast with impunity (Theon I, ACOK). While an ambush battle might still have happened, it probably would have been after either Robb drew Stafford on by pillaging the countryside and had tired the Lannister infantry out, or else when Stafford was being indecisive about which enemy to face (possibly in conjunction with the Greyjoys for a pincer attack). Oxcross was an improvisation, not the plan. 4. The books definitely imply that the path Robb's army took last the Golden Tooth was quite close to it, rather than some great circuitous route around it (Catelyn V, ACOK). 5. The fact that Robb had to march somewhere in the order of 200 miles without detection, including past major castles such as Sarsfield, and lacked the manpower to invest each and every castle to shoot down ravens and prevent messengers from leaving, is glossed over. The lack of attention to distances and time was also a major flaw in last video, wherein Robb travels over 200 miles in a night and Roose and Tywin each march over a hundred miles in the same night. Overall, the impression given in the video was that Robb was just 100% genius rather than a massively impulsive risk taken with an obscene (and unbelievable) amount of luck, which is entirely wrong.
I think this kind of video should be on a secondary channel, keep real history on this one and put "fantasy" on another one (still loving your job anyway :D )
Man this Robb Stark guy is so honorable and trustworthy hopefully some other great house doesn’t lure him into a trap killing his Mother, Wife and Men.....
Robb Stark the Pyrrhus of Game of Thrones, winning all the battles but does not now how to exploit them thus loosing the war. A good character, one of my favorites.
Robb is more like Hannibal. Pyrrhus was famous for winning, but at such a high cost to his own force that it could barely be considered a victory. Robb won at Whispering Wood, Riverrun, and Oxcross with VERY little damage done to his own forces. Hannibal managed to carve his way through Italy, defeating army after army that the Romans threw at him. He even managed to beat an army that was nearly twice the size of his own at Cannae (albeit with heavy casualties on his own side). Hannibal never managed to take Rome, though, and ended up losing because of it. Maharbal, the commander of Hannibal's cavalry, and his second in command, is famously quoted as saying "You, Hannibal, know how to gain a victory; you do not know how to use it." So yeah...long story short, Robb is the Hannibal of Game of Thrones, not Pyrrhus!
I think having him look so protagonistic was the reason his death was so shocking. Ofc his personal decisions relating to marriage and the karstarks was a big big mistake
@@ThelostPenguin0 i hope he does,cause i dont like hes portrayed as a sad lonely man who needs to be leave alone so that he can be happy,instead face and take what hes destined for
I have big hopes for this Robb guy. What a tactician. Tywin doesn't stand a chance.
Uhhh..
The Lannisters send their regards
Lol should we tell him😏
@@ephraimboateng5239 Tell me what? I hope nothing bad happens to DA KING IN DA NORF!
(srsly tho i know what happens...)
@@ΒαγγέληςΠαπαδόπουλος-ρ2ζ Username checks out!
Ser Bryden Tully is the most underrated commander in westeros. The idea to lure jaime to lure into a trap it was his, because he knew jaime was reckless. And the plan to make tywin go to the west was also his.
I bet three quarters of the ideas of Robb are Brynden's ones XD
The Lannisters thought they fought a young impulsive 16 years old boy, while in fact they fought a seasoned fifty years old man ^^
Yep, if Blackfish have been commander entirely of Stark/Tully army instead Robb/Edmure, they would win the war.
@@henryhenriquez8526 He could not be at two places at the same time ^^
And Robb seems to follow his advices, so he's not to blame for disasters. The only problem in battles were the mills one and... Yeah, Edmure is to blame, but Brynden and Robb too, if they had tell him WHY he have to stay put in Riverrun, he would never think to fight Tywin outside of Riverrun ^^'
do you mean the blackfish?
@@jhondahl3111 Yes
You should cover the Battle of Winterfell so I can count the number of times you say "for some reason," during it.
Shuld i laugh or cry...😔
THOR odinson. Laugh , Joke of an episode
Best comment
"For some reason, the humans realized that the White Walkers could probably maintain a siege for 500 years if they wanted to, and chose to bait them into an assault. For some reason, this was never explained to the audience."
same with battle of ice
"3 victories don't make you a conqueror" - Jaime Lannister
"Its better than 3 defeats." - THE FOOKIN KING IN DA NOOORF
Peak Rob.
It’s better then 3 defeats - Robb Stark
"it's better loosing one arm than one head" - Jaime L.
"----------------" - guy with wulf head formerly known as King N.
Kinda cringe bro
Thought I smelled a Frey in the comments
Robb was such a masterful tactician. If only he was a better diplomat!
He did send his mother to Renly with whom she struck a successful alliance which would have finished the Lanisters. Unfortunately, they couldn't predict that Stannis would send a shadow to kill Renly.
Theon Greyjoy...
He also send Theon back to his father and let them take the north in front of his nose.fucking dumbass who give away hostage
@@danny90099 Catelyn, whatever her flaws did warn him against this.
Too bad Northmen lacked anyone else they would follow as a king/queen. Imagine Robb doing the one ly thing he was really good at (leading an army), while someone with much higher Diplo stat makes strategic decisions. Hell, he should've been smart enough to name a Hand just for that.
Fun Fact: There have never been five kings at any point during the War of the Five Kings, since Renly Baratheon died before Balon Greyjoy crowned himself.
What about the king beyond the Wall?
Antonín Vodvárka I think north of the wall is considered separate from the rest of Westeros. Even then mance didn’t participate in the war
Yeah but it takes time for Renly's death to spread which is why the smallfolk take to calling it the War of the Five Kings. They believe Renly is still alive and they just recently heard of Balon's crowning.
@Alex your rigour sir is legendary
@@phrophetsamgames In the books the common folk believe that Renly's ghost rose and fought at the blackwater, so there's that to take in too.
You know they messed up when the battle of oxcross is more interesting than the final battle against the night king
exactly
Well the writer didn't write the Battle of Winterfell, the Showrunners did
@@MajorMlgNoob Oh weallyyyyy? We didn't know that!
This Map shows even better how ridiculous the Teleporting starting with Season 6 became.
It’s kinda lost during the show, but Jaime was actually a captive in Robb’s camp for over two years. At least in the show, Jamie seems so diminished after captivity.
@@ericgrimes341 What, seriously? I thought he was only a captive for a few months.
@@iceace4277In Season 3 he mentioned to Brienne that he was held captive for over a year
i mean.. in S7 jaime left KL with a stubble then arrived at winterfell in S8 w/ a full beard.. i think sometimes they forget about it or either the pacing makes it seems like they just travled from one place to another in like a day or so
No one:
Bazbattles: I'll post a game of thrones video a month after the series ended just to rub salt into your fresh wounds
How could they do something so controversial yet so brave
Shut up, idiot. I’ve been waiting for this one!
ASOIAF is eternal
@@AdamOfEverywhere eternally spoiled
well, actually this video is based on the books so...
Bold strategy posting something game of thrones
Fallout Fjorn This is still early season stuff, about as safe as you can get for the moment. Plus, he's using book info to flesh it out and that will always win you points in this fandom.
@@The_Sigillite agreed. Funny how content creators on UA-cam do a better job of bringing life GRRM's work than Dumb and Dumber
They go based off the books I think
Dumb and Dumber,Ahhahahahahahahahahaha
Bold indeed. But we will take any baz over no baz
It was a brilliant move, cut off the supply chain. Starve tywin of fresh troops, fresh steel, and fresh food. Most importantly cut off lanister gold, if only Robb had committed to the long strategy rather than a short one.
Well it was edmures fault because tywin was going to defend his land except at the stone mill edmure pushed him back and robb was going to bring tywin to Lannis port then because the starks where mounted he was going to get around him and trap him in the west. But because edmure didnt know this and stopped the crossing giving time for word of Stannis attack on kings landing to reach him so he turned his army around. So of edmure didnt stop the crossing Stannis would have taken kings landing and robb would have trapped tywin in the west.
@@seankirby8892yeah but since he didn't explain it to edmure he is partly to blame.
@UCyWP_ou-tng-WqHPRmnddvQ To be fair, Edmure was most likely ordered to remain and defend Riverrun. His marching out on his own to claim his own victory and glory is perfectly in line with his character. Robb's failing was relying on a man that he had very little personal experience with.
@@bmomgrimm6242 that's true except he told him to hold riverrun not to go fight battles
Sean Kirby it was Robb’s fault for not informing Edmure of his plan to trap Tywin in the Westerlands. He should’ve anticipated that Edmure would fight Tywin if he came back through the Riverlands.
This single video is a lot better than the entirety of Season 8. Thanks!
"He won the war on the battlefield and lost it in a bedchamber."
except he didn't it was in the great hall of a host's castle.
@@9822703 i think he's talking bout twyin
@@9822703 *He lost the war the day he married her.*
I can't wait for you guys to cover Stannis battles in the North(book version of course)
Kings & Generals have covered the Battle of the Bastards, so now I want see the real Battle of Ice with Stannis going Alexander Nevsky on everyone asses.
@@strikemasterice2004 Hell yeah to that, the Night Lamp strategy is going to be awesome
@@strikemasterice2004 Hope in the end he will not die offscreen.
Weary Hoss Are you knees frozen fool? Bend the knee for King Stannis!
I hope they do cover the book version. The show battles have been shite.
Tywin's army tried to cross the river but Edmure's enthusiasm prevented him to enter the trap and thus managed to get to Blackwater's battle.
@LagiNaLangAko23 Yes, it would have been suspicious if Edmure let Tywin cross unimpeded, but stopping the Lannisters dead in their tracks was really bad fortune.
if you think about it if edmure didnt do that the House lannister would have dissapeared as a great house
Wasn't Tywins army, it was just Gregor Clegane's troops.
Yes I love game of thrones battles
Yeah I really hope they continue
Pre season 7 battles are great.
Except season 8 battles
THE KING IN THE NORTH!!!!
Ardan Da King In Da Norf!
A young man is sitting in his room playing video games when he gets a notification from UA-cam. Bazbattles has uploaded a new video. He grabs his cheetos and reclines his chair and settles in.......... a new video from Bazbattles is about to begin.
Great comment
A man has no name
Cringe
The moment Robb lost was when Edmure Tully decided to stop Tywin from passing into the Westlands. Robb had planned to destroy Tywin with an ambush and Stannis meanwhile would have crushed King's Landing.
He didn't want to destroy Tywin, he wanted to trap him; in fact Edmure's instructions was to retreat to the side and let Tywin pass, then snap the blockade of the Westerlands shut BEHIND Tywin, this would mean that if Tywin wanted to defend King's Landing from Stannis he would've had to face all of the Riverlords behind him, and Robb Stark in front of him in the Westerlands.
It's not really an ambush, more like encirclement which would've been absolutely catastrophic (bear in mind, Tywin didn't actually know that Stafford's army was defeated at Oxcross, Tywin probably thought he could surround Robb Stark with one army to the West of him, and his army to the East; instead Stafford Lannister was dead and Robb and the Riverlords wanted to trap Tywin.
He was very lucky that it was Edmure and not the Blackfish that was commanding the army in front of him.
Nah. It was a strategic error sending Theon Turncloak. If he doesn't send him away he keeps his hostage and keeps Winterfell and keeps Jaime as prisoner. That single decision cost him everything.
@@SteveMcClaren98 To be fair, the fault lies in Balon Greyjoy for thinking he would actually have a chance to subjugate the Northern Lords rather than just joining the combined attacks against the Lannisters who were far wealthier and had a very small navy compared to them or Stannis Baratheon.
And to be fair, at least he knew the Lannisters had no honor and would probably let him keep his stolen lands, but if the North/Stannis won they would've forced him to return any stolen Lannister territory.
You can't blame Edmure. Robb did not inform him about the big plan. Edmure did what he thought was the right thing to do.
In the end, Robb lost because he was in a losing position from the start. You cannot expect everything to go according to plan.
If they could. The lanisters were not so powerful in soldiers. They only had money. But, If money were all, Robert wouldn't be King. Soldiers won the battle. Anyway, all the Lirds were wealthy.@UnitedTheLegend
I legitimately love you for flushing this Battle out. When I read about all these details in the book I had so much hope the show would capitalize on the cook details of the twins landscape and Robb's ability to worg. Thank you for this 😊
Thanks so much for including the Battle of the Camps with this one. Please stick to book lore only as well, the extra details and intrigue are far better then in the show :D
KrimzonStriker absolutely, 100% agree with you
Robb's battle tactics were simply amazing. He would have won if it weren't for all the betrayals. Tywin is so lucky the Freys and Boltons were traitors. Robb was not going to fail.
No he wouldn't have....
He sealed his own fate breaking the marriage pact and alienating the Karstarks.
I hope baz battle just follow the storyline from the book, instead of the show.
There is no storyline to follow if he goes by the series
What? People expect him to do this kind of video for, say the Battle of the Bastards? There's literally no background to any of the series' original battles, so rest easy.
Just started reading the first book, is it worth reading all of them?
@@lickylick6483 Yes, the books have much more content and are better written than the TV Show.
This one battle wasn't in the show, so here's your answer
George R.R Martin’s work is phenomenal!
Wish D & D had more then cinematography brilliance
When the AI ignores your fort zone of control and stack wipes your drilling army.
When a rebel stack spawns on your low maintenance army
What is this a reference to, friend?
@@dawn-blade Europa Universalis 4
Fookin Ai Rebels. Spawning under my training units.
That’s just crazy I was just thinking about your channel and then a new vid pops up
I was as well just yesterday????
It's a shame that we didn't get a real video, just this bollocks instead (and I say that as a GoT fan). There is no need for these silly videos, why can't we get real history instead? This channel has lost so much ground to Kings and Generals, History Marche etc. despite once being the King, and it's taking no steps to regain what it once had.
@@ChrisDyn1 going to have to disagree with you chief. Baz battles is still the kind of storytelling.
@@felixblack1106 Bullshit. Making cop out videos about a few vague lines in a book trying to pander to GoT fans, they're the kings of nothing. Your second sentence makes me believe that you're a youtube history channel casual, because there's a plethora of now superior channels. I'll list the shit out of them for you if you're looking for enlightenment.
@@ChrisDyn1 Well I mean Kings and Generals do Game of Thrones vids as well and we all still love that channel, Bazbattles still usually does historical battles so there's nothing wrong really
Robb: (tries to form an alliance with the Greyjoys)
Balon: *ARE YOU CHALLENGING ME??*
Still better than the final season of GoT
Yeah its funny how all of you destroy your love for the series just because some things were not like you wanted.
Laszlo Official The fact that you can critique something shows how much you love it. Season 8 was not good, that’s a fact. You can like it if you want, but objectively the writing was bad.
@Ghostkripp true. But there are a lot with the same opinion ... in this case, how many opinions do you need until it's a fact?
@@jorgeferreira2009 an Impossible number of opinions. Regardless of how many people agree with you, the quality of art is relative and there can never be a factual definition as to whether it is good or bad.
@@otterhero6229 can't argue with that. I guess that people were just disappointed on how things turned out, but hey; it was 8 seasons and truth be told, it was still a great show.
It's so sad when you remember Edmure undid all of this by fighting Tywin's men outside Riverrun. This gave envoys from the south enough time to reach Tywin with news of Stannis's attack on King's Landing, so he turned back to defeat Stannis. Had Tywin continued to march west, his whole army could have been massacred and the war ended.
Then Stannis would have taken Kingslanding and Robb could marry Margery and Edmure to the Frey girl. The Frey's would still see it as a slight on Robb's part but his first born son could marry a Frey and take her as his queen and everything would be cool for the most part
Instead we All blame Edmure for his "Error" to attack the mill where the mountain were, Edmure and his forces were not "Told" to follow a certain plan just to drive Tywin and his men West.
1 Word "Communication" it's the fatal Error sometimes. If Edmure "Knew" Robbs plans along with Robb's "Deal" with Stannis to lure Tywins Army west and not to Kings landing Then Tywin would Have moved west but Edmure's attack Alerted him... It's sad Stannis would Have taken The trone, have Tyrion, cersei and her childern in chains if not Already Dead and Tywin would Agree to insane terms in order to secure a peace deal simliar to The treaty of Versailles completly breaking house Lannister
Although, yes, I agree that lack of communication was indeed a problem, however, Robb also couldn’t risk sending a raven from where he was at towards Edmure to tell him those plans. Note that these strategic plans would have been made directly after Catelyn returned to Robb from her diplomatic mission down south and no one else knew the info she was bringing. And no one had expected Stannis to defeat his brother and absorb his army to then immediately make a move on King’s Landing. Only Catelyn possessed this info she was giving to Robb.
So if Robb had sent a message telling Edmure the new plan with Stannis to rush King’s Landing while Tywin was distracted, the Lannister forces could have shot down any raven or rider sent. If that happened, the Lannisters would have discovered this new information too and it would have immediately been reported up the Lannister chain-of-command to Tywin. Thus, the plan would have been ruined even without Edmure doing anything.
You have to understand that the logistics of communication back when militaries had no radios, no satellites, and no telegrams was a hell of a lot more difficult back then than it is now. Any messages sent out had a lot more risk of being intercepted and never even making it to their intended destination. So communication from the field (especially if in hostile territory) all the way back to base was not only difficult, but specific details must also be left out in case of interception.
In the end though, this event was supposed to show that mistakes happen in war, even if they were well-intentioned mistakes. What unfortunately got cut from the show though was the scene where Robb Stark openly praises Edmure Tully in front of the court as a war hero for his brave actions in driving off The Mountain and saving Riverrun. But then when all the other vassals and subjects are no longer around them, that’s when Robb reprimands Edmure in private for messing up their plans. This was supposed to symbolize how a leader is intended to act with their followers: *To openly praise your subordinates in public for their actions, where they can be seen by others; but to criticize them for their faults in private, so they will learn and not be publicly humiliated.*
his orders were to hold Riverrun. Edmure sought glory and left the defenses of the castle and attacked Tywin. communication was clear. Riverrun was the castle. the Riverlands is the region.
@@9822703 Edmure did it in the books because Tywin's men were butchering women and children. Riverrun was full of refuges who lost their homes to Tywin and The Mountain. He attacked Tywin because he felt it was his job to defend his land and his people
@@gfilmer7150 not denying that, but most of the riverlords were sent home to reclaim their lands which is why holding riverrun isn't a hard task to understand. edmure not having enough men pulled the garrison from the twins to aid in his battle of the fords which was an unnecessary. The battle risked soldiers they could not afford to lose. had he lost that would have been a whole new disaster. however, he ventured out first for vengeance as he was humiliated during the first siege of Riverrun where he was captured. this time he seeks glory and Catelyn questions his judgement. not blaming him 100 percent. The orders were obvious and his mistake wasn't the battle necessarily but the removal of the garrison from the Twins to do battle.
@@9822703 They were, I'm just saying he wasn't a complete douche like in the show
Robb should've had a POV in A Clash of Kings so we could actually see all of this
Why tf don’t you have atLEAST a Million subscribers my dude?? This kind of content right here is KING !
Thank you for posting this sir.
The War of the Five Kings was entirely winnable for the Starks, and they lost almost entirely due to terrible luck.
Damn Lannisters and their plot armor !
They lost because Robb betrayed the trust of a notoriously scheming, backstabbing family whom he relied on for safe passage into the south
Unfortunately for us Stark lovers this is a story smh plot had to save Tywin and all of em but if this was real yeah there’s no way the Starks woulda lost.
No the problem was that Robb's goals were too ambitious. No way to hold thenorthand tje riberlands
@@leonpaelinck Lysa and Balon not supporting this war for independence on the side of Robb was the biggest issue. If Robb had a larger support base, from people who SHOULD have supported them - then he would have won. But GoT is character focused rather than warfare/kingdom management focused
These are so helpful to those of us who are visual learners. I’ve read these battles multiple times, but your videos bring them to life in my mind. Nine times out of ten the books are better, for me, battles are the one out of ten I choose imagery. Hope you do more from the ASOIAF series!
I've been looking forward to this.
I love Robb Stark. Bazz Battles for the win!
Literally best channel on ytb for history even fictional battles.
Keep up the good work!
rob (king in the north) : sends theon to his dad to convice him to help rob in this war
balon (theon's dad) : proclaims himself as the king of the iron islands and attacks the north
The move that lost the war.
Despite the north being a vast, cold, barren wasteland, Balon decides to invade them instead of the RICHEST KINGDOM in the seven kingdoms
Yep he was always stupid
YES! I'm so happy whenever I get a notification about a new vid by you, especially if it's Game of Thrones!
Christian Vennemann I always assumed that Mance was supposed to be shoehorned into the discussion.
Sometimes its hard to realize How deep they went and how costly oxcross was. The North was really in a disavantage by sheer numbera in the war
I bet you in 100 years people will be watching thinking it was a real battle.
Because of the actor playing Stannis was so much older on the show I forgot that he was Roberts younger brother until you mentioned it and reminded me even though I've read the entire series multiple times. That just shows how much the more recent show information can overshadow the older book info. It makes me think I need to reread the series again now that the show is over and we are waiting for the next book to be released
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This is better than any world war 2 documentary. Well done! So captivating :D
Now that I am done with my Uni exams, I can’t stop waiting for your videos with excitement. I was late by 15 mins, next time would be as soon you upload :D
Good job man 👍
wow what a achievement!
15 mintus jeez
Haha
I'm so glad I discovered your channel
We need the battle of Stannis in the north with the wildlings (book version of course). You have to, it was one of the most epic battles.
Agreed, they way his men cut down the mamoths and shouted Stannis' name when they won...
Still gives me chills. The good kind.
One of the few channels i have alerts for, thank you for making this day even better.
Last time I was this early Ned Stark was still Hand of the King
This makes you remember how skilled Robb Stark was in Battle.
Not really.
@@johnkonig865 Why?
@@CodyWalsh-z9c Ambushes are a pretty basic strategy that don't need much skill, not saying he didn't do great, he did, but even a bad comander couldn't have lost those battles.
@johnkonig865 Well, that is a point that I can't argue with.
@@johnkonig865A bad commander wouldn’t have made plans to ambush in the Westerlands.
When your brother-in-law as the same name as you do, you know there is a problem somewhere.
Cousin marriages were pretty common in nobility.
Tywin was married to his cousin Joanna Lannister
Love these GoT battles keep them coming
I’m early! To all my GoT brothers and sisters I salute you, Valar Morghulis! 🙌🔥
Tancred de Hauteville valar dohaeris, good ser
Haha season eight is big bad! Valar Dohaeris
Valar Dohaeris
Valar dohearis
Man this is uncanny, I thought earlier to myself that I hope your channel uploads a new video about battles in GoT. Opened UA-cam and it just popped up!
“Do you still believe good soldiers make good kings?” - Renly Baratheon
Even after reading the books and watching the show, there's so many details I missed, it's nice to see it done in little bits on these videos.
Thank you for saying 'Obliterated' instead of 'Decimated'.
Yes! Decimated - it's in the word folks - means killing one in ten, not routing.
The research and dedication to detail that go into these vidoes is astonishing.
When the trees start shouting "The king in da norf!"
"And the stars in the night were the eyes of his wolf, and the wind itself was their song."
-Wolf in the Night, a song about the Battle of Oxcross
One minor mistake... Tullys sallied out of Riverun on a sortie & took the crossing Lannister men from the rear on Blackfish's side.
Enjoyed your narration and the animation...tyvm
Thanks Baz Battles, Now I want to play Mount and Blade. great video
Omg same, i just started earlier this morning a AWOIAF run
This was great!!! I can watch videos like this until the Game of Thrones prequel comes out next year. Thanks again!
Can you make the battle of blackwater next based on the books? that is the most decisive battle in war of the five kings.
I love those undiscovered goat paths that perfectly fit your battle plan
I miss the days of season 3...
This is from the books not from the shit show.
Please continue this series! It’s so helpful in following the chaotic story that is GOT. Thanks for the quality content.
have you ever thought about doing other fantasy battles like Lord of the Rings and Warcraft heck even Final Fantasy I love your videos just wondering is all
This is one of the better maps of Westeros I've seen. Good clarity.
A couple of things to note:
1. Jaime's camps at Riverrun (or at least the one facing Robb) were fortified with stakes and ditches, not completely undefended as depicted, and the first phase of the assault was to kill the sentries and remove the stakes for the cavalry attack.
2. Jaime's camps didn't need to be that exposed, since any competent commander would have built pontoon bridges to link his camps. This kind of thing wasn't unusual in the least during the Middle Ages (see the sieges of Chateau Gaillard and Aiguillon).
3. Robb's plan was never to launch a surprise raid on the Westerlands, but to take the Golden Tooth and draw Stafford away from Lannisport so that the Greyjoys could take it/raid the coast with impunity (Theon I, ACOK). While an ambush battle might still have happened, it probably would have been after either Robb drew Stafford on by pillaging the countryside and had tired the Lannister infantry out, or else when Stafford was being indecisive about which enemy to face (possibly in conjunction with the Greyjoys for a pincer attack). Oxcross was an improvisation, not the plan.
4. The books definitely imply that the path Robb's army took last the Golden Tooth was quite close to it, rather than some great circuitous route around it (Catelyn V, ACOK).
5. The fact that Robb had to march somewhere in the order of 200 miles without detection, including past major castles such as Sarsfield, and lacked the manpower to invest each and every castle to shoot down ravens and prevent messengers from leaving, is glossed over. The lack of attention to distances and time was also a major flaw in last video, wherein Robb travels over 200 miles in a night and Roose and Tywin each march over a hundred miles in the same night.
Overall, the impression given in the video was that Robb was just 100% genius rather than a massively impulsive risk taken with an obscene (and unbelievable) amount of luck, which is entirely wrong.
Thanks Richard the lion heart
Just found you yesterday actually and I love the stories and the graphic presentation. I pledge FEALTY
Can you make a meme GOT battle video: "The Battle of the woods where Robert lost to a boar"?
Weirdest thing in the world hearing an accent from home when you arent there... Well spoken 😁
Please do a video about the Battle of the Fords
Good work. Could you post two videos about Nicopolis (1396) and Azincourt (1415) battles? Thanks.
I think this kind of video should be on a secondary channel, keep real history on this one and put "fantasy" on another one (still loving your job anyway :D )
I was just hoping one of subscriptions would post. Couldn’t have asked for a better one!
High Quality bro
😃
Man this Robb Stark guy is so honorable and trustworthy hopefully some other great house doesn’t lure him into a trap killing his Mother, Wife and Men.....
More please!!
Just discovered these videos. Love it! Look forward to the rest.
we need more
Robb Stark the Pyrrhus of Game of Thrones, winning all the battles but does not now how to exploit them thus loosing the war. A good character, one of my favorites.
Robb is more like Hannibal. Pyrrhus was famous for winning, but at such a high cost to his own force that it could barely be considered a victory. Robb won at Whispering Wood, Riverrun, and Oxcross with VERY little damage done to his own forces. Hannibal managed to carve his way through Italy, defeating army after army that the Romans threw at him. He even managed to beat an army that was nearly twice the size of his own at Cannae (albeit with heavy casualties on his own side). Hannibal never managed to take Rome, though, and ended up losing because of it. Maharbal, the commander of Hannibal's cavalry, and his second in command, is famously quoted as saying "You, Hannibal, know how to gain a victory; you do not know how to use it." So yeah...long story short, Robb is the Hannibal of Game of Thrones, not Pyrrhus!
it's funny how Robb lost the war even though he won all the battles
This is video is much much better than the whole season 8, thank you very much
Blackwater battle is the next yeahh or not ??
Either blackwater or the ironborn invasion
Thanks for the video. It was very nice to watch.
War of the Five Kings best part of asoiaf for me.
It's not over yet. New opponents are entering the game.
Thank you for reminding me how much I loved and enjoyed GoT!
Could you do mor historical battles
Like some of the Egyptian wars or some fights about Hannibal
Thank you for your valuable work.
GODS the strategy was strong then.
Damn. Now it looks much more logical than I used to see in my minds eye. Great, GREAT movie. Hats down to You sir!
Will there be a part 2?
I love the maps you use
More battles from fantasy universes, but not too much.
Now the battle of the black water, ironborn invasion on the north and the red wedding!!!!! Keep it up!!!!
Robb stark will always be a better commander than jon. Game of Thrones should of ended with Robb chopping off cersei head.
I think having him look so protagonistic was the reason his death was so shocking. Ofc his personal decisions relating to marriage and the karstarks was a big big mistake
Jon is stupid af at battle hate him on the show
@@Beraksekebon21 i think jon will be better commander in the books
@@ThelostPenguin0 i hope he does,cause i dont like hes portrayed as a sad lonely man who needs to be leave alone so that he can be happy,instead face and take what hes destined for
Holdor is a better battle commander than jon