John MacArthur on Christian Politics, Nations, and Nationalism
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- Jon plays clips of teachings from Pastor John MacArthur through the years on topics like Christian Politics, Nations, and Nationalism. Recently John MacArthur linked Postmillenialism with Christian Nationalism and also said there was no such thing as Christian Nationalism. However, this was not a new teaching. For years, Pastor MacArthur has said there is no such thing as a Christian Nation. Some people have found his teachings on Christian political involvement discouraging. Yet, John MacArthur has made some very necessary separations between the Kingdom of God and conservative politics as well as the covenant with Israel and America's Christian beginnings. Jon explores Pastor MacArthur's teachings and offers up his own thoughts on how Christians should think about these issues and what questions to ask for future discussion.
#johnmacarthur #johnmacarthur2024 #christiannationalism
00:00:00 Introduction
00:08:41 Christian Civic Involvement
00:12:24 We Lose Down Here
00:21:48 There is No Christian Nation
00:25:46 Christian Families, Publishing Companies, & Colleges
00:38:37 Political Developement
00:48:23 Christian Nationalism
01:00:14 Takeaways
01:10:38 Fundamentalism
01:14:55 The Three Worlds of Evangelicalism
01:19:34 Prediction - Розваги
The fundamentalist take in the bunker mentality background makes a lot of sense. I’m just in case you’re wondering it’s clear that you respect and have a lot of affection for John MacArthur as many many people we do I think you did a good job in this one bro.
Jon, we have alternated between trying to wake people up & the bunker. The priority was always teaching truth to our kids & keeping them out of the grubby hands of the state. We honestly thought NM was a blue cesspool until we did election projects in 2020 & realized a Marxist coup has been in effect since pre-2000! Now we fight for the Constitution & the will of the people. Sincere question: why do we pray, “Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” but somehow it’s dirty to work toward that in the physical world?
Send this verse to JM
Proverbs 29:2 when the righteous are in authority the people rejoice but when the wicked beareth rule the people mourn.
There is a women in Oregon who was put in jail
For a Bias crime ! Because the women confronted a transgender man for being in the ladies bathroom
This where we are
What is right is wrong and what is wrong is right .
ISAIAH 5:20 I don't believe Christians should sit down
AND ACT LIKE POTTED PLANTS and watch the frog start to boil .& We are already here
Yes, but better a wicked Nebuchadnezzar than the Deep State or a Jezebel. Please read Daniel and consider how similar Nebuchadnezzar is portrayed to Trump. Both men are wicked, evil, arrogant, impetous ect ect ect BUT they had the gumption to face down the darker forces; unlike a Pence who went ahead and certified obvious fraud. I agree here with Luther. Better to be ruled by a wise Turk than a foolish Christian (change that to effeminate, emasculated "gentleman"). As a physician since 1985, the highest blood pressure I or anyone else I know has personally seen was a diastolic of 240 and an unmeasurable systolic (over 300). That was me, because I am NOT a gentleman, which the Bible lists right next to homosexuals as sinful (translated as "soft men" it is the same thing). Perhaps that is why my wife of 36 years is so happy with me. I will listen to reason. I will definitely bow to God. But try to bully me as most Christian women do to men and you're going to find there's steel under my velvet glove. Better Trump that a fearful coward Christian at the helm; or a woman.
👍Also Prov. 28:28-When the wicked rise, people hide themselves, but when they perish, the righteous increase.
@@mart98928 excellent post thank you for your post 🙏
@@mart98928 thank you for your post
I wrote a letter to John Mac decades ago telling him that as we follow Romans 13 and submit to proper government authority we must remember that the most important thing is to obey God rather than men. If I wrote the letter today I would tell him that we must obey God rather than women.
lol that’s good 😂 you’re absolutely correct
@@Jay_the_giant One thousand thumbs up. Even John, and Jon, refuse to tell women to cover their heads as CLEARLY taught in Scripture. The passage ties to the first 3 chapters of Genesis; so it is NOT cultural. That COMMAND by Paul, which was only ignored by male clergy for 2k years (you know the male Nico-laitians and their funny hats break the commandment as the men ought NOT wear hats in Church); that command was suddenly abolished in the 1960s. It is extremely clear that feminism was openly embraced in the Churches. Head covering is like a fever to an illness: a reliable symptom of an underlying disease. The only guy I know who taught head covering to his dying day was RC Sproul, and most everyone ignored him on that point. Yes, McArthur, as SUPERB and courageous as he is, at times fears women more than men. Not always though. He has held firm against some "abuse" charges from women. Sorry, I am not a "believe all women" advocate....at least not since Genesis 3. Head covering is nigh to a sacrament, a visible sign of an internal reality. 1 Tim 2:15 Women, however, will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. ... Now, we can have a long discussion as to the meaning of that verse. All humanity being saved by the seed of the woman, ie, virgin birth, may be in view there; but the point is ead covering IS tied to salvation somehow, as is baptism and communion so that it is not far off to call headcovering for women, and not covering for men, a sacrament. And I do not care what the reformers thought because contra-Scripture they wore scholarly hats in Church. My wife and daughter wear something on their heads at my teaching because, I do fear God more than women. In my happy 36year marriage it is NOT happy wife happy life. It is obey God or watch the fireworks.
I still regard McArthur as my favorite preacher walking on earth today. This one issue is NOT a hill I will die on. It is however FAR more important than people realize as it points out the undue elevation of the clergy in the past, and the present undue elevation of women. No, shut up, cover your head, and ask your husband (not the pastor) to mishal (teach/rule) you at home woman. The Bible is neither egalitarian nor complementarian. It is clearly and unashamedly patriarchal.
Yeah man!
You should write that letter
@@JesusRodriguez-zy3wj Yep, the Lord showed me a long time ago that this cultural customs/only for the early church exegesis was rubbish. The scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35).
Jon, thank you so much for this podcast. You articulated what I have so often attempted and failed. As having grown up in an unbelieving home, I am glad for the remnant Christian moorings that assisted in guiding me. I wasn’t saved then, was an atrocious sinner, but how much worse I could have been in today’s culture of no moral absolutes. May God be glorified in all!
I agree that we babyboomers are resting more on our traditions and institutions than on Christ. We are getting a huge wake-up call.
Actually, that has been the case since about the third chapter of Acts. I am using the English word "idolize" as the English dictionary has it. It is not the same word translated idolatry in the Bible. Some of the most faithful Christians idolize men like the reformers and Aquinas. Even though Aquinas said to burn everything he wrote as useless after meeting God one day; many ignore the converted Aquinas advise about the natural man Aquinas and idolize him. Calvin is another huge idol in the Church. The list of idols is long in the Church and started very early (read Galatians about what Paul thought of "certain men from James). Perverting Billy Joel, we didn't first quench the Fire, but the Fire keeps getting quenched. No I am not talking about cessationism, but the undue reverence for men. We forget that a ploughboy with a Bible is worth more than all the councils ever assembled.
I'm a baby boomer and I know lots of baby boomers. None of us are resting on traditions or institutions. Probably because we haven't gone and do not now go to churches with traditions. I've been a Christian for 47 years and always gone to non-denominational churches. I saw, and many of my friends did, many years ago, the writing on the wall. So be careful what you say about an entire group of people.😊
When I write about institutions, I am thinking of more institutions than just the church. Government, medical, journalism, education were once somewhat stable institutions that we baby boomers could trust. Now that trust has been annihilated. Just look at what happened with the pandemic. We have been living in an Orwellian world with no roots planted in the truth. We can't go back to Leave It to Beaver but we can go back to the Gospel.
@@laurenkuo2333 I call this the Age of Bad Faith.
@@JesusRodriguez-zy3wjhi, I’ve read some of your post on this thread and I agree with you. I’m so tired of the reformers being upheld as the standard when they were fallible and Luther didn’t end strongly. It’s lead to idolising them and their doctrine and anything that isn’t reformed is garbage attitude.
I appreciate Calvin and Luther but they’ve been held too high, as has Spurgeon. Great men who served the cause of the Lord but certainly not always right
As a Dispensational Christian Nationalist, I really appreciated this episode!
His concern is that American Christians are tempted to be content with a nation of basic morals that make their life comfortable. Remember Hezekiah. We are here to be salt and light for the Gospel - not a more civil moral society that still sends people to hell.
That’s certainly part of it. But there’s definitely more going on. For example when he accuses Jerry Falwell of using the kingdom of darkness to elect Christian statesman he’s saying something broadly about Christian political activity.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast Excellent response Pinky! You're really hitting on all cylinders on this topic.
Will not being salt and light for the Gospel necessarily result on a more civil and morally upright society?
@@gregb6469how could it not?
Amen, preach it sister!
I would just point out that Paul invoked his right and standing as a roman on more than one occasion. So my question would be, why cant we invoke our rights as written under the constitution / bill of rights as Americans in our favor like Paul did?
Good point.
Who said we can't? MacArthur's never taught that we shouldn't assert our rights.
I was just referring to the part where MacArthur said Paul never sought after favor of the Roman empire. It sounds like to me Paul used the favor that was automatically extended to him from the empire just for being roman.@@afterdarkness-light
@@afterdarkness-lightin fact he stood on the first amendment for the defence for staying open in 2020, forgive me if I got the amendment number wrong, I’m english
That’s right! In order for the early church to thrive they had to live with the society around them. They didn’t have a lackadaisical approach to who was ruling them. If they could vote they would have. In times of persecution they formed tighter communities to resist the onslaught
of imperial decrees. They formed political groups that tried to reason with the powers. Paul in Rome James in Jerusalem. Read Eusebius, 3rd century monk, thanked Christ over and over for Constantine. Even though Constantine was a pagan! He stopped the persecution of the church. If he was running for president they would have voted him.
The problem? I believe that our country should be tied to our Christianity not our Christianity tied to a country. But as a Christian I know the difference between the pagan Nero and pagan Constantine. We many times have to make that choice.
.
Christians should be involved in politics, not to force others to become Christians (or at least act like Christians), but to counter the anti-Christian efforts of the secularists and pagans.
Exactly, well put in a very succinct manner.
You are right. If we are in a country where the government requires our vote to make decisions then Christians should engage in both voting and running for positions to be voted into. If governments are ordained by God and we are told to follow them, why would we abstain from the act of serving in them.
I think a lot of this from jmac and others is a reaction to cultural Christian morality that became comfortable in the US. So many people believe that if they go to church, be good and live a good outwardly christian life, then they are saved. Many, myself included are sad for their delusion.
JMac influenced me perhaps more than any other teacher. I’m glad he knows what time it is.
Jon, that was an excellent analysis. Fair and balanced. Your research is amazing. The plethora of clips was very helpful. I’ve passed it on to a number of folks.
The fact that you believe as MacArthur does that “we lose down here”, though it may not have negatively impacted you as perhaps others who have retreated, may be taking a far bigger toll than you realize. Jon, I think eschatology matters.
This incessant barrage of “we’re about to lose,” whether it was Hal Lindsey and Chuck Smith in the 60s and 70s, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell in the 80s, Tim LaHaye in the 90s, and John MacArthur in the 2000s and beyond, has had a demonstrably chilling effect on the Kingdom and it’s expansion. The fact that we have lost our culture is proportionate to our level of pessimism… I see it as a self fulfilling prophecy.
Since becoming a Christian my senior year of high school in 1972, I have seen the effects first hand for 5 decades. My roommates and I came within a hair’s breadth of quitting college during the 1974 oil crisis when the Middle East was engulfed in chaos. And my pregnant wife and I were chided for picketing abortion clinics because we were told that there was no use “polishing brass on this sinking ship”. We were also told that bringing a child into this world would be wrought with heartache and danger. The bottom line is that If the Church expects to be overcome by evil, it will.
Listen, I realize eschatology is neither your forte nor your focus. You can’t be all things to all people. You’ve been a great source of inspiration for me.
But if you believe that after thousands of years of Kingdom expansion, the Holy Spirit ultimately loses… and the church only wins after Jesus returns bodily, that seems like dubious conclusion. Doesn’t the Holy Spirit’s purpose extend far past individual salvation? At any rate, I think you might benefit from this documentary. Thanks again Jon. ua-cam.com/video/jchu--KWvDw/v-deo.htmlsi=9kZ4hoaRQgy_j3hl
Well said 👏🏻. Eschatology matters and it matters A LOT.
It changed my entire outlook coming to an optimistic eschatology.
I’m hopeful Jon will take the time to study it in depth and come to the Biblical view (partial Preterist PostMill 😉🔥)
@@sarahd5341 I appreciate that and share your sentiment. No offense to those who hold the view, but premillennialism shipwrecked my faith for almost a decade. No one could give me what I felt was a legitimate answer for the plethora of imminent time statements surrounding Jesus’s coming in judgment. The intellectually vacant “answer” that 2 Peter 3:8 (a day is as a 1,000 years) washed away all of the emphatic time sensitive language (surrounding Jesus’s coming judgment) like “the time is short”, “things which must take place shortly” and “in a very little while”, was a bridge too far.
I had been an elder in a conservative Presbyterian church for quite a few years but after dealing with some tragedies combined with the seeming misdirection and obfuscation of the Olivet and confirming passages, I wrongly determined that the Bible could not be trusted. I never quit attending church and I never did anything consistent with my growing agnosticism, but I stopped praying, stopped reading the Bible and began to drift spiritually. I knew that “this generation” could not be repackaged to mean “that generation” or “the generation that sees the signs”, or that “the end of all things is near” had nothing to do with the end of the age i e. the old covenant age. But I had no place to turn. I felt like I was stranded on a desert island.
When a pastor who was preaching through the book of James said that James was simply motivating the beleaguered Christians when he wrote, “The coming of the Lord is at hand… the judge is standing at the door”, I knew there were serious issues that were being swept under the carpet. God doesn’t employ situational ethics. I couldn’t believe that even a nominal Christian, much less a pastor, could convince themselves that the NT authors would lie simply to exhort their readers to press on.
And Daniel’s supposed gap arbitrarily separating the 69th and 70th week seemed baseless and quite frankly, ludicrous. But since the internet was barely a thing, and since dispensational premillennialism dominated print media, I was at a loss, growing more despondent by the year. After you hear “Jesus is coming soon” for decades it begins to grow old. Only after finding “Paradise Restored” by David Chilton and ultimately “Last Days Madness” by Gary DeMar, was my faith restored. I finally found answers to my many questions. Since then my trust in God’s word has never been more robust.
Though I’m still a work in progress, the Bible finally made sense from cover to cover. And my prayer for those as equally disturbed as I was, that they find sound answers to their nagging questions. If Jesus didn’t come on the clouds of judgment within a generation of His astonishing proclamation, we have more problems than merely eschatological. But He did come exactly as He predicted! Praise His holy name!
John MacArthur is absolutely correct. He is being realistic, not pessimistic. We shouldn't have unrealistic expectations regarding what we can accomplish politically. A lot of conservatives don't even like Christians (they blame us for political losses). Our positions will never be majority positions.
As much as I love JMac, this just shows he’s part of and contributed to the problems we’re in. And people say eschatology is a secondary issue……😅
Right. See how I articulated it in my comment.
Find the pastor with perfect theological beliefs.. I'll wait.
@@Josh.1234 Nice strawman.
@@hokieham if you think thats a strawman, good luck in life.. its a simple point, if Jmac is part of the problem, I would like to know who is not part of the problem
@@Josh.1234 it’s a strawman. You’re exaggerating my argument.
My argument isn’t about perfect theological beliefs. The problem is “we lose down here” and bad eschatology. Deal with that.
I’m fine with many of JMac’s theological positions and thank God for him.
Well done on this topic. Now, for a conversation that SHOULD matter, how about we talk about John Piper at the shepherd's conference today? I watched it live, and I can tell you there were more than a few people in the chat who had concerns. Yet in calvinist circles he somehow gets a pass. No concerns about things he has participated in? People he has endorsed? Other troubling topics such as taking a stab in the arm? Why are calvinists silent on this? Have they ceased(cessationism)to use their brains?
Agree he gets a free pass for some reason. He is probably a democrat. Lol
I would not have invited Piper. I don’t give Piper a pass for his wokeness and weird views of justification and Christian hedonism.
I started ignoring Piper several years ago.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast Yup, Piper's not completely off the reservation, but he's definitely out there somewhere strange.
Wait for the Q & A. Remember Mohler? Plus, we can't expect the conference to correct all wrongs. Nor can one group see clearly in the midst of this age of deceit. Who believes like you? How influential is your group? Maybe it is time for you to take the lead, organize, and invite.
IMO we need to find ways to get our kids untied and off the tracks before the train runs them over. We may need to put on pause the debates about how many angels sit on the head of a pin until they are safe once again. We are at war and the church is just one of the many casualties. The work that needs to be done is more the work of a nation than a spiritual body whose citizenship is in heaven.
Best insights on 2 Kgd understanding heard to date:
Our Starting and ending will and should differ; but there is Overlap.
Thank Jon for fine-tuning this discussion.
"We lose down here."
I wonder if Pastor MacArthur ever looked one of his children or grandchildren in the eye and said that to them. Children can have a way of calibrating our theology. We need to be their hero and fight against the evil coming directly at them and not stand down. We need to let them know they are worthy of the fight. They ask for bread; we can't be fixing to hand them a snake. If I was Jesus, yes, it might be different, but I'm not. Buy a sword He said.
All my children and the 2 older grandchildren get that message repeatedly not just from me, but my wife as well. We lose down here is a gloriously happy message because THE OUTCOME OF THE BATTLE DOES NOT DEPEND ON ME. That leads me not to despondency or a bunker, but like Falwell to fearless battle as paradoxical as that might seem. The Viking religion taught the gods would lose; yet that did not dampen their fighting. We lose down here BUT the Commander is taking note of our actions and preparing medals based on our actions. Salvation is NOT earned, but rewards in the New Jerusalem are earned.
@@JesusRodriguez-zy3wj imo it seems a bit presumptuous to me and unnecessary to say what we, the living, will see. Would you counsel a transgender person who wants to transition back to his God ordained sex the same way - you lose down here? or a failing marriage - you lose down here?
When our forbearers were sacrificing to build civilization for their children and their children's children, where churches and seminaries would be built to help educate them, was their mantra - we lose down here?
It's not sinful to encourage people is it? Paul taught us to seek our freedom if it was possible (1 Cor 7:21-23) Is it possible? Paul warned against false humility at the expense of responsibility (2 Cor 11:19-20). We must be careful what we say. Suicide is at record numbers. Depression went from 20% of the population to 30% in less than ten years. There are reasons why the Church is failing the people. God is keeping score on that. I do not want to be the fool who sat on his talent (Matt 25:24-30). I want to multiply what grandpa passed on to me.
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1 Corinthians 7:21-23 Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that. 22 For he who was called in the Lord while a slave, is the Lord's freedman; likewise he who was called while free, is Christ's slave. 23 You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men.
2 Corinthians 11:19-20 For you, being so wise, tolerate the foolish gladly. 20 For you tolerate it if anyone enslaves you, anyone devours you, anyone takes advantage of you, anyone exalts himself, anyone hits you in the face.
Matthew 25:24-30 "And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed. 25 'And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.' 26 "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed. 27 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest. 28 'Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.' 29 "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
@@TimeToFlush Losing down here doesn't mean in your personal sanctification. If you are not being sanctified and changes in your heart, you might not be saved as that is a mark of salvation.
Losing down here means we have no guarantee that if you or your community evangelize really hard that they will necessarily have success in changing the culture. The Holy Spirit is the only reason you have success and if he chooses not to workin those people, like Paul we might have to dust off our feet and move on. Same with our nation, we have no guarantee it will get better. All we can do is evangelize, live in a Biblically sound way and let God choose.
@@Josh.1234 Respectfully, by looking at what your great great grandfather and great grandfather built, they believed they make culture. God said as much in Gen 1. I don't think they were wrong for what they believed or did for us. They had faith that works; they multiplied and subdued. We barely do either. They did not throw the mandate in Gen 1:28 up into the wind and blame God when things did not work out. (I'm not saying you are doing that, but many Christians are.) Instead, they nailed the mandate to the doorpost as we should. They left the home and went into a hostile world with purpose. The Bible says a righteous man leaves an inheritance to his children's' children. They did. How are we doing on that? As believers our salt should not become tasteless and our light should not be hid. It can. We, in Western Civ, of the European stock have been given many talents; we have learned to use very few. European Christians don't look like the Bride of Christ. We look more like we are stuck somewhere in Isaiah 1. But, like you, I believe Phil 1:6 - the Lord will perfect/mature those in Christ until the day of His return. Maybe when we "get ourselves ready" and look like the Bride (Rev 19:7-8) there will be a wedding!
I have lived in New York State and in Mississippi - they are both states filled with sinners in need of a Savior. Neither can be called a Christian state. It's time to return to the pure Biblical definition of the word "Christian". There is a huge difference between a set of Christian morality to live by and a saving personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
There is a huge difference between genuine regeneration by the Holy Spirit and Christ-honoring laws. You have not seen any prominent proponent of Christian Nationalism say otherwise. But this assertion that there is a huge difference doesn't answer basic questions. Is it a good or bad thing for people to be able to blaspheme Christ publicly? "Do you think not blaspheming Christ saves people?" No one thinks that. It's a bad thing for people to publicly blaspheme Christ. It is not conducive to making more Christians or seeking God's blessing on our nation.
God shows mercy to unbelievers by restraining their sin, sometimes through mere circumstance without softening their consciences. Even if they are never saved, they have received a good act from God. We should seek to do the same for our neighbors through Christian government. Even if Joe next door remains an unbeliever, he is still better off not cheating on his wife or committing crimes. It is an act of love to create a nation that discourages those things. Only an unchristian callousness could say, "Unless that man repents, I don't care at all what happens to him." Allowing sin to run rampant in our nation has been a gigantic failure of the church in the US. Pagans do not know what is good for a people better than Christians do. Christians know God and should shine the truth of His Word into everything, including our nation's laws.
Also, I am not trying to hammer you. Your comment did not address all the things I brought up and I don't mean to imply you disagree with them. But general statements like "what they really need is Christ" do not deal with the actual issues in CN, and that's what I was responding to.
Wow this was so needed Jon. Thanks
Great analysis on one of the most complex dilemmas we face as Christians. I tend to agree with McArthur position, getting too much into politics we have the risk to become activists, (like the liberals do), but we have the right to raise the voice and participate in politics if we choose to. How to balance this is the big question. In general I think McArthur has done it well through the events he has lived.
Also need to be aware that the church needs to be open for all who want to hear the Gospel, liberals and democrats as well, getting too political sends the message they are not welcome.
Christians are a nation, but it's a spiritual nation. I Peter 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;"
It’s simple what MacArthur is saying that the most important and basic tenet of Christianity is preaching Christ and Him crucified so that people are born again with desires for righteousness. MacArthur is only saying that secondarily we may try to vote for candidates who promote more justice and righteousness than others, but ultimately, that’s not where the battle will be won.
The battle is one ultimately in the heart, by the preaching of Christ crucified, when the grace of God grants the sinner, a new heart with new desires for Christ, and for righteousness .
Yeah it’s simple. But JMac practically inconsistent. If God’s kingdom is not now and we lose here and Christians should not seek to push our “narrative” into the political sphere then why does he fight against newsom? Why does he seek to contribute to christian colleges and future world professionals? Why does he support the beheading of the satanic statue in the capitol building? In his efforts to preach a loser’s theology he’s inadvertently contributing to the post mill optimistic puritan hope. Like Doug Wilson said, it’s going to be the premils who are going to evangelize the nations. 😂
I would agree with that if that's all he says but Jmac goes a bit farther when talking about it. Really attacking the notion of a Christian based nation.
That first clip about how government should "only" take care of necessities like the water running, not getting shot, etc... Isn't it obvious that even those things come from Christian moral duty? Voddie Bacham talks about how his country doesn't have sidewalks, and how the safety and concern that goes into building sidewalks is a byproduct of the Christian morals of the society.
I think that could come under the comment he made about being able to travel safely.
It seems like one side is talking about what to do, and the other is talking about want to expect. God is sovereign. Do what He says, and let the Lord determine the outcome. Don't pull your punches, follow through til the end (of which only the Lord knows).
Very well stated
So sorry I missed you would have lived to say thank you for the great podcasts. I had other obligations.
Many of the colonialists during the time of the American Revolution agreed with John Macarthur's stance today with Romans 13. And yet they still went ahead with the Revolution. You can find their public prayers praying that if it be God's will that God would bless their actions but if it wasnt that they would fail. Dr. Mohler has addressed this some as well. Macarthur's veiw is consistent with many of the early Americans.
An excellent presentation Jon Pinky. You're quite correct that McAtthur is at best unclear and more likely inconsistent and self contradictory when it comes to politics and our relationship to this world. While McAtthur is my favorite living preacher, from when I first began listening and reading him 40 years ago; he has been fumbling this particular football (he used to play football and like when young, he forgot his cleats on this subject).
McAtthur has also been forced to become more political because the Government has become increasingly more intrusive against Churches. 20 years ago McAtthur did not have to worry that California would insist he let me into the woman's toilet rooms. McAtthur is myopic on politics, whereas Falwell was far sighted. On this subject Falwell did a lot of good and McAtthur some harm. Please note both men were fundamentalist dispensationalist, so this error from McAtthur is not necessary from his hermeneutics.
Your last comments that the eschatology (which flows from hermeneutics) dows NOT influence the "Christian Nationalism" debate.
The only thing I don't like about this video is that I can't find anything to disagree with Jon about. As a natural contrarian, I'm uncomfortable when I completely agree with a presentation.
Kudos Jon!
Bro your autocorrect is out of control 😂.
Great comment, otherwise.
@@wenmoonson Yeah....as I live in Miami I don't think McArthur needs to worry about me going into his Churches female powder rooms. Even though my 2 grand daughters like to paint my toenails and giggle. I type on my phone with my fat finger, often while driving, so it gets messy; especially for anyone else on the road. However, my driving is not unusually erratic for Hialeah :) BTW, I call Jon "Pinky" because THERE ARE NO WHITE PEOPLE, and Jon is an excellent example of the pink people. Plus, I am the Brain and Jon Pinky. Oooops, what did I just run over?
Very sensible discussion. Citizens have to have good laws to be safe and those are our Judeao Christian laws so christians should work towards implementing and maintaining them.
Wow, that was a great presentantion. So many fascinating points made.
Love JMAC grew up on his preaching.
Yet he's been on the wrong side of this topic for DECADES.
His Theology has major holes that prevent him from balance.
Snappy little throw away lines that are "dangerous, misleading partial Truths", like:
"We lose down here."
Au Contraire,
"We experience some losses down here BUT experience Victory in history by Jesus power as the Nations (people & country) are conquered by the Gospel"
That's less pithy but FAR more accurate.
So where do you draw support from in the Bible that we will succeed in making the nations more Christian?
I’ve been talking about definitions and what it means to be a Christian nation over on Instagram. Your clips of MacArthur were really illustrative so I included them in a post on Instagram and credited you.
Excellent podcast and video.
We need to do what we can to gain back morality, which is of God.
Christian should be called to lead in everything. So we should have Christian senators and presidents. We are not of the world but we are in it and we should take every thought captive. Voddie Baucham 2028, like can you even imagine? What if a nation was Christian? Of course we're not perfect but why wouldn't we want Christians to lead?
Edit: I would like to say I love John MacArthur. We all have blind spots.
I would rather a pagan like Trump than sell out Christians like Bush and Pence. The Bible condemns gentlemen (soft men) not just homosexuals. While there was a time of more civility where a Ronald Reagan was SUPERB; this is now a junkyard dog fight. My first 6 months in America I was a homeless legal immigrant who spoke no English. I survived the gang infested streets of mid 60s NYC before the current welfare state. Perhaps that's why as a Christian I am no gentleman. This is no time for gentlemen.
Would LOVE to see you do an episode critiquing Doug Wilson.
As much as I like Wilson, he would not stand a chance against Jon Pinky on fire. Doug relies more on vocabulary than clear thinking. Now, please understand I thing Doug Wilson is not only a Faithful Christian, but is doing great things for the Kingdom. Good enough for Government work indeed!
Definitions of words like “fundamentalist” and “dispensationalist” very much depends on who you’re asking. Many will deny that you’re a fundamentalist if you don’t read the KJV. I would disagree. Many equate dispensationalism with end time fanaticism. The entire faculty at TMS would disagree. This was an excellent presentation with the one small exception of needing to know which definitions of a few words you are operating with. For example, dispensationalism gets blamed for a lot that has nothing to do with the system itself.
I think if I defined it would be a 2 hr podcast.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast Unfortunately you’re right. Happy Lord’s Day tomorrow.
Wow I didn't realize how anabaptist John MacArthur is. It makes sense why many from the Mennonite communities that I grew up in were fans of his.
Jon, JMac’s description of one Christian making a household
Christian is covenental. That’s how I understand CN guys today when they say “America is in covenant with God”. It doesn’t have anything to do with parallels to OT Israel. Anyone who means it that way is in error
Thank you I appreciate your perspective
@Jon, great podcast. It's the germ of a printed article that will have much greater staying power than one video. Please consider!
Brother Jon. I've been in your eschatological shoes, so I understand completely what you are saying about eschatological not being as big of a deal as some make it out to be. I was a historic premill guy for about 2 decades. But now, after embracing postmill theology I understand, looking from the other side back at my old camp, how vastly important the role eschatology plays into these discussions. The topic of God's law, Christian Nationalism, Christians role on the earth and in government has EVERYTHING to do with eschatology. Give it up bro. Stop denying this fact. The divine in Christian circles regarding Christians being involved in politics and the public square has everything to do with eschatology.
I will gladly partner with postmil guys who want to make a difference. I understand some guys got serious about making a difference after becoming postmil. I’ve always been serious about making a difference though and I grew up surrounded by premillenialists who felt the same way.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast yeeeeeah
I was just in an online chat discussion along the lines of this broad topic - and I didn't know it at the time, but now hearing these clips of Pastor MacArthur, I recognize them as the same points the other guy in the chat was making, almost to the letter. I think I have underestimated the presence of the "MacArthur Bros" out there!
MacArthurites tend to imitate everything MacArthur says and does. Like, to the point that when you explain something that he doesn’t teach or talk about, they look at you like they have no idea what you’re talking about (which they don’t, because they only listen to MacArthur).
@@Jay_the_giant Everyone has their followers. Everyone. Not just John MacArthur. Doug Wilson's followers imitate everything Wilson says and does.
@@user-gs6bt1ko2isome much more than others
I’d like to point out that colleges aren’t Christian, individuals are… colleges aren’t saved, people are!
Same with families and publishing companies?
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast same! And churches. Churches don’t go to heaven, people do. And conferences, particularly pastors conferences.
Apologies, I’m just having a little fun :) appreciate everything you’ve done over the last 4 years Jon. You’ve blessed me tremendously
Exactly, how am I supposed to take a college out to coffee??
Been watching too much AD Robles?
Thanks!
His views may have been consistent over the years, but this podcast shows the inconsistency of his Biblical worldview. I think the reason he’s been able to say these things for so long is because he’s never been really challenged, publicly, about his views. I think it’s time that our nations most vocal Christian leaders start publicly getting together and debating these issues. If you believe this adamantly in your worldview, you should have no problem defending your position.
Nice video. Agree with your overall view.
Excellent commentary.
I’m personally astonished at how unfamiliar MacArthur is to postmillennial theology.
It’s not the church “ushering in the kingdom” it’s that Christ has already started His kingdom, and He told us it would start small as a mustard seed, and gradually grow to monumental proportions.
Why would he need to be familiar with something that is not taught in the bible?
I agree. I'm sure we could both supply him a list with who he should talk to about it. I doubt he'd change his mind though.
@@j.p.5716
Even if you don’t think postmillennial theology is biblical (I believe it is biblical), one should still be familiar with views contrary to their own, so that they don’t consistently strawman the other position.
Especially when this is a view that has such a rich history of being held by Christians and theologians throughout church history, and especially within the reformed tradition.
@@Spurgeon_General Considering McArthur's long association with RC Sproul (who changed his eschatology like a butterfly with sore feet) I very much doubt McArthur does not understand. He rejects it and many times has said why.
I love John, but I think he could benefit from listening to a few sessions of Voddie Baucham and Tom Ascol from the Institute of Public Theology. His perspective on this isn't balanced. They're every bit as committed to the Gospel as he is, but they just have a better grasp of how to hold both kingdoms in balance in their thinking.
I am completely satisfied Jon! I needed this. I love John MacArthur but hate how hard he goes against others that have a different view on the influence Christians will have on the world. I definitely think you’re right on the fundamentalism thing though. I think the hardest thing is all the influence he has on so many different people that will think just the way he does. Thank you
An excellent video! For Christian authors who have written on this topic see John Eidsmoe's God and Caesar, Gary DeMar's God and Government.
I found this video so interesting. I had no idea there were pastors whose opinions might be discouraging people from voting or becoming involved in politics! God calls us to love our neighbors as ourselves. If we live in a country where we have the opportunity to affect the laws and direction of our country, wouldn’t we always choose to change the government for the betterment of our neighbors? If I really believed God wanted me to love my neighbor, and I really believed that God’s laws were designed for the betterment of man, how could I not at least vote?
Galatians 6:9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 6:10 So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith. (NASB)
14:38 It must’ve been really encouraging for the men and women who fought (and won) against the state of California to keep Grace Community Church open only for him to say their efforts were essentially meaningless because “we all lose down here”
You do not understand, losing down here does not mean not trying.
Not exactly a way to motivate people to “try” when you’re telling them outright that they’re going to lose. He should be feeding the sheep not discouraging the sheep.
I get your point but I think he was saying that we can fight within the system but don’t expect the whole world to come to Christ through your efforts. That’s the way CN comes across. I am reading the case for Christian nationalism at the moment and I know the arguments. Yes, we’d all like to live in a place that is freer to be serve the Lord in but the church flourishes under persecution and we don’t need the state to be godly for God to win
I think it comes down to how one would define the questions, concepts, and applications. I could imagine a certain definition of Christian Nationalism actually being anti biblical while at the same time another definition of Christian Nationalism being biblical.
... and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things.
I really appreciate the friendly refutation of MacArthur's stance on this.
Have you considered some of the same logic or rational used to exhibit the benefits of infant baptism- that children will be bought under the influence and bear the responsibility of christian faith and practice, even while acknowledging that these things don't save them- is the same rational of Christian Nationalism at this point? I love it. Presbyterian peado baptism and CN flow well together. Not that CN is a direct implication of infant baptism, but there seems to be something there. Maybe this is why McAurther is troubled? Because he's so strong on keeping the purity of the church that he can't stomach a deep dive here? I don't know.
As an agressive agnobaptist, have you considered not going beyond what Scripture teaches clearly? As in not building convoluted arguments to fill the void? Water, triune formula, absolutely; when...the Sounds of Silence. Here's an idea, let the father of each child decide, not the pastor or denomination. If the father be not Christian, then the mother. Why do we have to bind the conscience of people where the Bible is NOT clear?
we all have a great deal of respect for such a consistently faithful and godly man such as MacAruthur is. He has been consistent with his view of impacting the culture for Christ...consistently wrong. When Christ sends the Spirit and we baptize the nations the leaven of the gospel works through the whole of the lump of society and is Christianised. Presto, a Christian nation is the result.
I've noticed a lot of oversimplification, and dismissive attitudes, in the eschatology debate. One person I've heard who seemed to give an even and respectful explanation of each view was Keith Foskey.
After the covid drama MacArthur went through with the State/City, it seems like he understands now what the forefathers dealt with to some degree.
What MacArthur understood is that the government/ state has no authority from God to mess around with how the church functions. And he wasn't the only pastor that realized that and kept their doors open. Basically MacArthur and those other pastors were courageous enough to stand on what the word says about the relationship of the church and government.
@@afterdarkness-light That’s why I stated what I did in my first post.
Britain was very overreaching in many ways. They never changed much over the centuries. Look what the puritans went through, eg. John Bunyan, William Prynne, John Bastwick and Henry Burton.
Tyrannical governments attack every facet that is good and does not conform to their ideologies.
This carries off to the founding fathers of this country as well. It does not get better with those type of governments.
“The government we have now would have been unrecognizable to the Founders, and our acquiescence to its systematic encroachments on liberty would have infuriated them. But here is the point: it would not surprise them.
Glenn S. Sunshine”, ~ Slaying Leviathan: Limited Government and Resistance in the Christian Tradition
I must say as a member of GCC, that has sat under Pastor John Ministry for over forty years, I see John's interpretation of Romans 13 widening. That the Church and the State, both institutions, were created by design to serve as an equal to govern too separate entities.
- the song HEAVEN KNOWS/Robert Plant
Yeah when someone says "you can have a Christian anything except a Christian nation" it really starts looking like they have an ax to grind. Christian families, Christian schools, Christian bookstores, Christian music... but no Christian nations. Bizarre, because nations are compromised of families, schools, bookstores, and music. Thanks for this episode! I think you did a good job showing that Johny Mac's position needs to be thought through a bit more carefully.
Do you think it comes down to scale? It’s harder to have a nation to be majority Christian and run by Godly men, whereas schools, colleges and families can be.
@@danielwarton5343 An interesting take, though I've never heard that be the argument that they have forwarded. MacArthur has never said, "If enough people are Christian, or if the nation is small enough, then it can be a Christian nation." I've also never heard them say that if a school gets to be too big, it can no longer be Christian. In other words, their argument is ontological, not one of scale.
@@tinybibles that’s a good point. I’m trying to reconcile what I hold to and Christian nationalism. I’m not sure to be honest and it’s process to understand what to think
Our national legal system is based on the Decalogue. The 10 Commandments were prominently displayed in every courthouse.
Incorrect, completely wrong, Shabbat was NEVER changed to Sunday (the Lord's day) and the entire decalogue was ONLY meant for national Israel. The Reformers did an excellent work, but they did not go far enough in expunging Augustine and Aquinas from Christianity. Semper reformanda is a joke.
9:39 "I mean Jerry Falwell believed that right, that he believed that you know if we're going to reach the world we've got to have a Christian president, a Christian Congress, and a Christian Senate..."
I was never a Jerry Falwell fan but I would be surprised if MacArthur is representing his views accurately there.
It's interesting to me that no matter what the eschatological or even covenant/dispensation stance, folks are building (i.e. MacArthur with Master's University, Voddie Baucham with the university in Zambia, Doug Wilson with Saint Andrews/Logos/Canon Press/Plus, Joel Webbon with Right Response). Everyone's got to work, the key is working as unto the Lord. May God bring correction where it's necessary.
God says to Glorify him in whatever you do sometimes God will place (Daniel’s and Joseph’s in goverment to further His plan and preserve his people
I thought your assessment on this topic was excellent.
I've been around MacArthur since the 80s. I went to Grace Community Church to attend The Logos Bible Institute in the early 80s and then back again for The Master's College in the late 80s where Frazier taught me U. S. History and Government. He was a pacifist then, but a debate was arranged between him and the other history teacher. We heard both sides. That characterized the spirit of that school that MacArthur presided over. The emphasis at that college was to go into the marketplace and make a difference. Sound bytes can be misleading; look at the fruit. I think Jon did an excellent job at helping us think about these things.
MacArthur is a Pastor and has a big heart for the Church. He loves his family. But, could he answer the question "what is a nation?" Who can? In light of the deceit that has been going on for centuries, I don't expect anyone too. And if you can't define a nation then how can you understand government? Multiculturalism has all but destroyed the definition of nation and its purpose. Multiculturalism for the church - yes, but not for the host nation. Multiculturalism produces too many competing values that make people ungovernable. Evil floods in. The enemy knows that. As Jon mentioned, nation is the extension of family (Gen 10-11 and then ALL THE REST OF THE OLD TESTAMENT). It's role is to protect family.
Finally I'll ask: Are we faithful to God's definition of nation? What did Moses teach Israel a nation was when he led them out of Egypt? What were they to become? Did he teach them multiculturalism? Whatever He taught then, are we willing to believe it as much as we do when he taught them about what a man is, or what a woman is, or what marriage is?
1 Cor 10:6 Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.
1 Cor 10:11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
Rom 15:4 For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
"Multiculturalism for the church - yes, but not for the host nation."
I like that. Too many Christians equate not wanting a Babel nation with not believing that other groups are Christian brothers and sisters.
Multiculturalism can't exist in your local church either, as evidenced by whatever type of liturgy you practice in corporate worship, Bible translation used, expectations for reverent dress and behavior, and what foods you serve at your social events. Of course the Church "catholic" is multicultural, but that only matters when you travel.
@@wenmoonson There was a story 15 or 20 years back about a church in Texas that was very welcome to migrants. That's great and spreading the Gospel is paramount. However, the original members were soon stuck with a majority that did not want to worship in English, or do the same fellowship things. Was the new majority not brothers in Christ? Of course they were Christians. However, worship was impacted.
@@chrislutz416 Yep. Our goal should be to get to the end of the world with differing tongues, tribes, and nations intact as much as we want to get there with genuine male and female bodies identifiable. The end will be colorful, not grey and convoluted as the Nimrods, Soroses, Gates, and TOO MANY in the church want. Jesus respected these boundaries; we should too.
@@wenmoonson You might be right about that; I'll have to think about that more. God went to great lengths to separate sinful man. 1. There is a natural affinity within us to gravitate toward certain sides of the family. 2. He pushed continents apart to separate people groups. 3. He changed our languages and judged us when they tried to come together. All of this to protect us from what sin and Satan can bring upon us. God loves us. All of this so that civilization would be stable enough so that He could bring forth a Messiah when the time was right. When man aligns himself and his family with Satan for a few hundred years to create what we have today, you manufacture a great deal of "foreign influence" for fellow believers to contend with. It is not safe. It leaves little room to wonder why the Church suffers as it does from so many self inflicted wounds. That phileo natural affinity for one another has been eradicated.
- how can things manifest if not having the freedom thus to manifest in order to be judged according to their workings
The office/baby room setup probably won’t work. My wife and I have a 2 month old and I don’t see how we could make that work haha. If you can, God bless 🫡
It will be the equivalent of breast feeding but for the mind. 😉
Baby's bed in mom and dad's room or baby adjacent to or in mom and dad's bed is the best default, best chance for all to get some sleep and nurture baby day and night :-) Prayers for all new mom and dads to get some rest and enjoy every moment with their babies and toddlers. - signed, a newish grandma, and a mom with no regrets for allowing the little ones to stay with mom and dad at night, even when we weren't always confident enough to ignore the criticism of the naysayers🙂
It would interesting to have some clarity from JM as what he believes is the kingdom of God. Since, Jesus said repent the kingdom of God is at hand. Jesus spoke many times about the kingdom of God. And what is the difference between the kingdom of God and the Church.
Did anyone see Q&A with Piper and MacArthur? Was last week Shepard's conference. Am i wrong that MacArthur believes in Christian hedonism now?
Didn’t MacArthur once say that those who take the mark of the beast (in whatever form it eventually takes) will be able to enter into God’s kingdom? I’m not sure if I’m remembering correctly. Wondering what y’all think about this.
I agree. The demand for Christian influence is a must. The battle is over how that happens. An understanding of original sin & total depravity directly impacts our understanding of this issue. Might we recognize a possible difference between "active & passive" motives? "Christian Nationalism" seems to be solely motivated by ushering in the kingdom through directly active political and societal influence, placing a certain level of glory on the "C"hurch (Demanding eschatological issues be seen as primary gospel issues). Christians attending a "Christian college," like Master's, aim to actively bring glory to God as faithful elements of common grace and passive agents (preach the gospel and leave the results to God) in God's overarching sovereign plan of redemption. Just some thoughts.
Good podcast, however Pat Robertson was not dispensational. He was post trib
God uses people in many different ways. We shouldn’t all be preachers or missionaries. God bless those who have fought tirelessly for morality. Would we downplay William Wilburforce and how God used him? Can’t we see that when we don’t do things Gods way, people suffer. I appreciate the conversations you create Jon because it always challenges us.
Talk to the people from the Ezra Institute about Christian nationalism and they have a deep understanding of what it is.
Ah yes, Ezra, the first Pharisee who added to Scripture (forbidding marriage to Egyptians as well as other revisions of the Mosaic Law) and claimed that God wanted divorce of women with children as a solution to the sin of marriage to Caananites and the NON-sin of marrying egyptians. Yes, Nehemiah who asked God to look upon his personal righteousness and reward him. Just because Scripture records events, it does not mean endorsement. 400 years later Christ condemned the intellectual/spiritual descendants of Ezra with the most vitriolic language possible. No, I don't think I'm going to build walls with the advice of Pharisees...
Hi John, I must confess I haven’t finished the show yet.
Do you think that there’s a problem with the Christian nation term as many people seem to be giving a pass to Catholicism and calling them Christian nations, yet the reformers would argue for why they led people to Hell and teach a fake Christ and false gospel.
It’s possibly a scale question, schools and families are smaller and can be run by godly men with good theology, but to bring a whole nation under one umbrella of Christianity is tough because of the far reaching implications of the word Christian.
I’m reading Steven Wolfe’s book at her moment and his premise seems to be built on what would the world look like without the fall. That’s not where we’re at and the consequence far different and why we need the return of the King.
When the foundations are destroyed, what will the righteous do?
Well, I guess we are finding out.
MacArthur's argument that there is no such thing as a "Christian nation" is a bit like saying there is no such thing as a brown, black, or tan coat. Why? Well because a coat is something to be worn and hence calling it "brown," " black," or "tan" is to miss the point of what a coat or jacket is all about. As Jon's video will show, such a viewpoint is silly.
Get Dough Wilson on board..
I see what you did there
You mentioned that the person you asked about going to Law School responded by saying there is no difference between a janitor and a lawyer, yes in the sight of our holy God. It seems you were discouraged by that statement; however, here is a quick point here. You and I will not be judged by our academic or worldly achievements. You also say some might be discouraged and go secure themselves in their bunker but if you critically think about his point you will reach a different conclusion. The idea is not to go build a bunker but to vigorously proclaim the gospel with the expectation that you will be killed, just like many of the apostles. Do you know Christians are being killed every day around the world because of their faith?
ALL nations have some religious base underlying its laws and customs ; the only question is 'which religion?'
Pastor John MacArthur has done great things for the advance of the gospel, but about the issue of our trajectory going forward, he is decisively pessimistic and depressing.
I love reading, but I haven't read all of the church historians. I am simple. God calls the kings to kiss the Son. They are deacons of his. They should submit.
By his logic, there can't be a Christian school, home or anything else.
Yeah and SUV doesn't cause accidents people do
What I (and I suspect most other Christians) struggle with, is this… it is the task of government to formulate laws, and all laws are by definition MORAL in nature… But what if those laws do not faithfully reflect God’s moral standard? What do we do then? To rely on nothing more than a vote at the polls for the ‘right’ candidate who professes a Christian ethic (even if he is not actually known by God as one of His own), seems so feeble and ineffective…
Thanks. Really appreciate your historical comparson and interweaving ...
Oh my goodnnesss. .... huge problem in this country that we do not have enough true Christian lawyerly informed men to work in our nation to keep it from being corrupted by socialist
I hear it
Yeah, now we have attention-seeking Jenna Ellis as great christian legal defender rather than serious godly men.
The people had an agreement with King George and that he agreed to protect the colonist. It was parliament that violated that agreement and you served authority over the colonist that parliament really didn’t have. That’s what breaking away from England was all about. I believe that John MacArthur is wrong about Romans 13 in a whole Lotta passes a hear appreciation that way.
Back in the 80s the Dem-Rat party wasn't arguing about the definition of what a women is
"We don't win down here. We lose." says the multi-millionaire pastor with decades of successful ministry + many children and grandchildren. Man, if that's losing, what does winning look like?
Does not Scripture enjoin us from judging someone's salvation. Is that not what MacArther is doing instating emphatically that none of the founders were true Christians.
A Christian college has the gospel specifically in their mission statement. A nation doesn’t.
The Christian life, discipleship to the Master, requires no ethical, moral or cultural framework in which to operate, other than the one it finds itself in.
If anything, the more combative the framework is towards the Christian, the more effective the discipleship is.
This has always frustrated me about John MacArthur and people of his mindset. He seemingly treats all governments as absolute monarchies whose commands we must obey without question, not realizing that "playing by the rules" in the realm of government depends on what kind of government is in place. In the British empire, citizens enjoyed certain rights and a certain level of redress to the government, but the American colonists saw these rights and liberties being curtailed because the Crown wanted reimbursement for the French and Indian War. The colonists were perfectly correct in their attempt at redress, and they came to a conclusion, after years of hard experience, that if their government was not going to play by its own rules, then they had the right to throw off that government and establish a new one. Governments have responsibilities before God as well. For rights and responsibilities to be genuine and binding, both the government and the governed need to respect them, and if the government will not respect the boundaries of its authority, then the people must compel them to do so. Or we just sit back and watch evil triumph everywhere and do absolutely nothing.
Thanks JM are suppose to occupy the land, so he is telling people not to vote? I heard say vote for the person who is more biblically based ? Be a janitor. ?
It's no better than being a lawyer !
The person who told you to be a janitor was he one ?
Baby: Keep baby in cradle near your bed for first few months, next to mom, for easier midnight nursing.
The church ie "the called out ones" is the "holy nation" not some political- nation state 1 Pet 2:9 but you are a chosen people a royal priesthood "a holy nation" J I Packer, no dispensationalist, warned of equating "a comfortable conservatism" with Christianity or political Christian influence. Christ's death on the cross "appeared" to be a massive failure, a great loss an end in and of itself, but not so......✝️
- the Old Testament Nation of Israel was given the Law; and as of twice; because, they didn't understand the spirit of the Law Which is love and they became vain and hardened as their hearts instead -just like all men have
@9:25 Jmac that is expecting your government to act Christian
MacArthur does not know American history and he needs a really keep his mouth shut. I was a history major in college and I know about the family fathers and for him to make that kind of a statement shows his ignorance of history that’s disgraceful.
so true, the more i learn about the men who founded this nation, the more i am motivated to love my neighbor by demanding God's standards in the public sphere.
Jon, I have listened to your channel for a couple of years now. I really like it. However as someone who knows the JMAC world quite well I find your commentary in this episode a cartoonish (complete with cherry picked video clips from probably the largest library of video/audio sermons available online, GTY) version of the great body of work from one of the most effective teachers of God's Word of the last 50 years. Also I don't think you have a very good read on the Grace Community resources and growing impact on the Christian world, despite your claiming that you do. As a software company owner and employer who has partnered with The Masters University (TMU) to hire grads from their award winning accounting, computer science and engineering programs, I found your saying well maybe adding a law school might be something where the JMAC world can get engaged with the world, just plain uninformed. Also the clownish wisecrack about what was being said at the Sheppard's conference about Christian Nationalism last week was also uniformed, since the only speaker who talked directly to it, at the time of your recording of the above episode, had not spoken yet. I will still keep subscribed to your show because I enjoy many of the guests you have on as well as your own commentary, but just wanted to say, that you should amend what you say about being some sort of an insider to the greater Grace Community Church world just because you spent a semester at TMS and your father has some sort of relationship there. Listen to a few thousand of his sermons like I have and then maybe you can have some solid ground to criticize him or the greater Grace community. Oh BTW 5000 pastors from around the world were at Shepards Conference this year, a new record, you should listen to the sessions yourself, especially the one on Christian Nationalism before you comment again. Better yet, have the pastor who gave that lecture last Friday on your show and discuss the issue with him Christian Brother to Christian Brother to give your audience a more balanced view than was displayed in this video.
The government does not have the right to rule within the church. Sure makes it clear. Tell that to hesitant has a Kia when he went into the temple.
I would never attempt to speak for Pastor John. What I would say is that there is only one people that scripture refers to as having a covenant with Yahweh. Truth is a funny thing. one man's truth is another man's lie. What does Scripture say? That's all.
I think you completely misunderstood by the term used “Christian Nation.” You spent a lot of time combating a definition, a Christian nation meaning everybody is a Christian, that nobody uses especially John MacArthur.
He never defined or used the term Christian nationalism to mean every person is a Christian