"The removal of skill based movement systems in favour of systems that are much more manageable but don't reward mastery of the mechanics is a problem that would permeate gaming throughout this era" Right in the feeeeels
@@socallmekarl4014 not talking about titanfall, titanfall is a really good game and it feels like in apex it's an entirely different development team. Respawn made bhoppong almost useless by nerfing bhop healing in apex.
the old guard did, but as times move forward, there's been new blood who probably looked back at those days and said: "man, Past ID were IDIOTS to try removing this cool shit"
@@alparkryyy6712 kid you realise you have videos on your channel. And your second video has your voice. That's of course unless you employed a random 10 year old to voice the first part of the video but with *banger videos* like cringe montages and *omg get rekt hilarious responses to comments* i doubt it.
Love the video, but I also feel like Team Fortress 2 is worth a mention! Valve attempted to remove bhopping and crouchspamming from the game (since Team Fortress Classic had very fast bhopping), but left in airstrafing, rampsliding, and lots of opportunities for damage-assisted movment. They even added weapons that specifically encouraged you to learn the movement system (ex: the sticky launcher did no damage but gave you explosive momentum), essentially making skill-based movment almost a requirement for its competitive scene. 4 of the 9 classes could move faster via self-damage, and every class benefitted from learning how to surf, since you could use your enemy's explosives to boost your momentum. As you went into the 6v6 competitive format (the one that's actually endorsed by the big leagues), you were limited to medic (duh), scout (the fastest base movement speed), soldier and demoman (the two classes with consistent, explosive-assisted movement)--ending with a team composition where half the players constantly self-damaged for movement. Fun! Sorry about the wall of text!
I was kinda surprised that TF2 wasn't mentioned, I think it has one of the most expressive movement mechanics in a competitively played game while having the silliest community of any other.
@@molarambiguity3510 Yeah, of all the mentioned and not mentioned games TF2 is tye only one where classic BHop has direct influence on combat, with Airstrike and Market Gardener preserving their buffs while player is successfully bunny hopping. That's kind od unfair from some points of view, but having BHop amplifying direct combat abilities much more than movement is very interesting, i wish more games utilised jumps and mid-air state in the combat mechanics.
Ok, Portal 2 didn't purposefully kill bhopping, the speed cap was mostly for the "Aerial Faith Plates" (Launchers) that launched you at 300 velocity, and they wanted you to not be able to strafe out of it. And you CAN break past this, mostly by crouching and precise movement.
you might also wanna check out Ultrakill, whose devs have done the exact opposite of "fix" glitchy speedtech. if anything, Hakita has done the opposite of fixing and effectively sent the message of "hey look at what my fans found out they could do that i didn't know they could do with my game, isn't this shit neat?". it also helps that the game's main focus is best summed up by the tagline, "Devil May Quake"
@@tPlayerioT you NEED to play ultrakill, it completely redefined the limits of boomer shooters and made a ton of super unique and complex mechanics that smoothly integrate with each other.
Me talking to my friends about Ultrakill "okay, so you know how half life 2 has that broken speed mechanic? Think that but it took ALL of the performance enhancing drugs"
cause Bhopping isnt possible on minecrafts engine without a client tampering with it so that player gains a unfair advantage over others, minecraft bhopping is possible in minecraft why do you think you see so many players sprint jump its 30 percent faster then regular sprinting
@@flashrunner2689 yeah bhop is considered a hack, sprint jumping isnt but in sprint jumping you don't strafe so idk its not considered bunnyhopping but u cant bhop without hacks ^^
Yeah its really good video but some aspects of bhop & movement history were unfortunately glossed over I think in the interest of time. He did mention Call of Duty but in the honorable mentions he said only Modern Warfare 2 which is kind of odd to me. If any Cod should get an honorable mention it's Cod 4 with Cod jumper community.
Actually there is @I Am Doge. One of the best examples i could give you is Krunker. This game basically makes it so that movement is a necessity to survive. In fact they embraced it by removing a feature that made the bhopping only accessible for people with high fps. I believe there is a future for bhopping
Source engine always provide satisfy movement Credit to respawn they not only never nerf B-hop they embrace it by making slide hop have more timing window than regular b-hop
In Beacon 2 we skip the entire map by soaring across rooftops - it's called super fastball. I wish he had shown it in the video, it just looks so clean
Man, TF2 still has one of the best movement systems to this day. Also now whenever I play a game without some form of fast movement mechanics, i feel so slow. Must be the curse of titanfall where every game feels slow now.
Try playing lrunker cause the movement is really fast and yeah i feel that it feels so slow after playing krunker (i cant play it anymore cause my laptop and wifi just lags)
Quake 2 and beyond actually had very substantial bunny hopping mechanics, with entire mods and maps built around them. The behavior was just different from Quake/Half-Life style bunny hops. Also, LawBreakers really embraced crazy character movement with grapple swinging, slide jumping, laser boots, stab dashing, time dilation, gravity manipulation, firing backward to propel yourself forward, etc. Sadly, it didn't take off. :(
the video was going well until he mentioned the developers were trying to patch out bunny hopping in quake 2 and 3, that's completely wrong movement peaked with quake 3
@@zanesnep I liked the mythic slayer mode they had in there for a few months. They removed sprint and slide, but kept the thrust and the clamber. I think it’s a happy middle ground.
@@zanesnep What is actually so bad about Halo 5's movement? I prefer a more limited movement in Halo myself but Halo 5's movement was actually pretty sick I respect it: ua-cam.com/video/RUjbIaMCOko/v-deo.html Shyway has a lot of videos covering the mechanics of Halo 5 there is a lot of skill involved in it you can think it's not Halo but to say it's terrible is not really accurate it's good enhanced mobility it gives the player a lot of skillful options for outplaying their opponents or just moving about.
@@zanesnep How I saw Halo 5's “enhanced mobility” was it essentially rewarded pro players who learn the movement tech and punished casuals for not learning it. There wasn't much besides competitive at the time and to me that was the downside besides the campaign.
The movement mechanic in Quake 2 is generally called "strafe jumping" instead of "bunnyhopping". Oversimplified you actually do have some air accel, but only when you're turning towards the angle your strafe was moving towards when you first jumped, whereas with bunnyhopping you can change your movement vector freely while mid air. Also pre-strafing is a modern term that is confusing to a veteran like me, as we always called it circle jumping which i think is more descriptive. This is about strafing in a half / quarter circle by keeping your mouse in a position that keeps your movement aligned with the direction you wish to travel towards. To get an in depth explanation of this you can search for Quake 3 wishdir and you'll find the actual math involved behind this concept.
It's a little interesting that you toss off later Quakes, because while moving to strafejumping, they all allow faster movement than Q1 bunnyhopping, and Q4 also introduced crouchsliding, which offered the same acceleration while grounded with far more control, before games like Titanfall popularized it. Strafejumping was a formal mechanic in 3 and has tutorials in Live. Quake CMPA and games like Reflex are also well-known for their Q3 strafejumping and air control which make them considerably faster than the main Quake titles they're based off of. In general, most id Tech games maintained strafejumping, including games like Prey(2006) and RAGE1. Speedrunning/parkour maps aside, it is a shame more games don't utilize advanced movement in their games and levels. We of course have seen wall running sections in games like Titanfall, and various gaps and ledges to double jump to in games like Eternal, but there's typically a disconnect even these other mechanics are implemented. Counter Strike isn't built around bunnyhopping and nor is DOOM3, yet they both have those kind of mechanics. CPMA and more so Reflex are really some of the better examples of this, with the latter having many maps that are outright built around ramp and circle jumps.
Even the latest Quake, while not being the best one, does quite a neat thing, by introducing different bunny hopping techniques from Quake's past to different champions. (CPMA-ish movement for Anarki and Sorlag, the standard bunny hop for most champions and the crouch sliding based on falling height for Slash)
@@Mart-E12 In Prey, DOOM3 and RAGE1 it's nowhere near as strong as Quake games, and you have to time the jumps tightly to avoid losing all your speed because you can't buffer it. It's not really useful anywhere(DOOM 3 has a few circle jumps you can use to skip areas in speedruns), but you can use it to slightly speed up the few longer stretches of walking, and for lolz you can get enough speed to break out of the planetoid gravity in Prey.
Quake 2/3/4 have strafejumping, which can get you much higher speed than NetQuake bunnyhopping and is arguably easier to do. Also you don't lose speed when landing on the ground in those titles (afaik) Skill based movement was actually increased in later titles of Quake, which is why we have things like DeFraG World Cup to this day
I agree, im really upset that he omitted the whole history of strafe jumping, which is, on one side, objectively better than bunny hopping, and on the other the predecessor of bhopping
Very much agrees with this.. I used to play "Action Quake2" a lot and it was a key part of the game to be good at strafe-jumping and you could do some insane jumps between buildings etc..
23:53 We actually call it "slide hopping" for the most part. And mastering slide hopping is essential for Titanfall 2 multiplayer - good thing it's actually really easy.
@@shadow50011 It was a tough call between Quake and Quake 3 but it came down to 3 being more polished. Also what tipped the scales was the more vibrant scene that has stood the test of time better. DeFRaG going strong, full servers (Quake Live but I consider it close enough for Q3), pro scene and new players still getting in to it. Don't get me wrong people still play Quake World but fuck me it's the same 1 or 2 guys in the server every time I go check randomly. They just live in the server, eat the textures to stay eternal, have mega long beards that are barely seen when they pass you by going backwards while you are being gibbed in an instant.
25:15 "Unfortunately, titan fall's 2 multiplayer didn't really take off" Remember the controversy over futuristic games and people were getting tired of in 2016? (Well probally not, but tired of cod doing it specifically) They had MWR in a bundle AND Battlefield 1, the year was pretty stacked IMO. Titanfall 2 just had a bad release
Also not to mention that they dropped the ball with the pc community, where most are already used to and welcome advanced movement unlike their console counterparts, by releasing the game Origin only. When Titanfall 2 dropped on steam this year, the community boomed.
Your writing, delivery and articulation are on point and one of the main things that keeps me coming back. Not to mention genuinely interesting topics and them sick thumbnails. Keep it up dude!
One small inaccuracy, Half Life 2 and Episode 1 were released without the ABH glitch, its only when episode 2 came out (orange box) that ABH was introduced and backported to HL2
Not really, he did mention that ABH was brought by the new engine update, which implies the release of Episode 2, as new engine was the engine used for that.
@@xFluing I know new engine is quickly mentioned right at the start of the HL2 section, but doesn't mention Orange Box then implies it was based on CS Source instead (?), the video then goes on to say that bunny hopping in HL2 wasn't really a thing, until ABH was suddenly discovered. (?) Why did Valve try to patch it then? Just a small issue in how the script was written to transition from CSS to HL2 and while not technically incorrect, could be interpreted inaccurately due to a missing element (orange box).
@@sersoft_corp Well, you can't account for all theoretical "what ifs" remember the extra credits fiasco "durr what if playing as nazi in bf5 makes people want to be nazis"? That's a slippery slope you risk going down if you overthink too much.
@@xFluing LOL there is overthinking it, and then there's going completely off the deep end for no reason. I am not calling anyone a nazi, the video author loved my comment didn't he? I remember getting orange box like it was yesterday, in a contest on black mesa forums (hosted by gamer-node back then).
In Doom Eternal, there is also a trick of transferring vertical momentum into horizontal. That’s the main source of acceleration while hopping. For example, people initially double jump to gain height and that gives them a good boost. Also, it works even better when you drop from some height.
I appreciate seeing a video about the history of bhopping movement in games! However, as someone who has spent hundreds of hours practicing movement in Quake trick maps (QuakeWorld and Quake Live) and even pored over the movement code for several of the games, there were some inaccuracies and ommissions I thought worth addressing. First of all, let's discuss how airstrafing actually works in Quake. Whether you're on the ground or in the air, when you hold a directional key the game stores a desired direction vector. The accelerate function then attempts to alter your movement in the desired direction by projecting your current velocity onto the desired direction and then subtracting the result from the max speed (ground 320, air 30). If the remainder is positive, it adds velocity in the desired direction by the remainder multiplied by the acceleration constant (ground 10, air 106) and the frametime. If you were to jump in place and hold a direction key, you'd quickly accelerate to 30 units of speed and go no faster until you hit the ground (similarly, you can more or less deadstop in midair by holding backwards). The trick with bhopping is you are constantly changing what direction you're asking the game to accelerate into, so it can never "catch up" to 30 units in a given direction and thus you always gain speed in the new direction. Your comment that holding W while bhopping causes you to lose speed is incorrect -- it turns out there's nothing special about the left/right strafe keys in this context, they just happen to provide the best speed tradeoff as they are perpendicular your view angle. You can bhop with forward movement and diagonal strafe in Quake, they simply require a faster mouse turn rate and result in tighter curves than strafe bhopping (if you try forward bhopping you will find yourself moving in a tight circle). Furthermore, it is completely false to say that the later Quake games removed airstrafing! Quake 2 and onwards actually have the EXACT same movement algorithm (with slightly different implementation), the difference is in the constants that drive movement. In Quake 1, max groundspeed is 320 and ground acceleration is 10, while max airspeed is 30 and air acceleration is 106. In Quake 2/3/Live/etc., the max airspeed is equal to the max groundspeed at 320, but the air acceleration used is only 1. This means you can actually gain a lot of speed in a given direction, but it is acquired more gradually. This results in "strafejumping", where you try to angle the mouse at a slowly drifting sweet spot relative to your motion rather than turning your mouse at a constant rate. Strafejumping is less flexible than bhopping as you can't perform tight turns with it, but it can allow the player to go much faster overall. You're probably mixing up your story with the fact that John Carmack sought to remove strafejumping in Q3 at one point; in the Q3 movement code, you can find a "proper" implementation of air control that avoids the "strafe jump maxspeed bug", but is commented out because it "feels bad". This lines up with Carmack's blog post where he says he tried to remove the strafejumping exploit, but reverted it because it "changed the normal running movement in an unfortunate way". Lucky break we got there! The other fun fact about Q2 is that it actually retains the Q1 air accelerate function but simply has it off by default in favor of the unified accelerate function used for ground and air alike. You can re-enable bhopping in Q2 multiplayer if you set sv_airaccelerate to 106 (doesn't work in Q2 singleplayer sadly, as pm_airaccelerate is hardcoded to 0). Similarly, you can re-enable bhopping in Q3 by setting sv_maxairspeed from 320 to 30 and sv_airaccelerate from 1 to 106. Marriowned may have introduced surfing to CounterStrike in 2004, but the concept dates back earlier to QuakeWorld's 1999 "Slide" mod. While it was originally intended to be played with an included hoverboard, a player named KovaaK discovered circa 2002 that you could simply slide down most of the slopes in the maps using the strafe keys. There are many bhop and slide trick maps in QuakeWorld very much like those in CounterStrike (you'll find me practicing them on the KTX servers pretty often). I should also note that the main difference between Quake and Half-Life bhopping is not the presence of friction (both have it in pretty much the same amount), but rather the fact that Quake has input queuing for jump, meaning that you can press and hold the jump key as soon as you enter the air to queue the next jump without having to muck around with scrollwheel or macros. It's for that reason that I'd consider QuakeWorld bhopping the most accessible. As for the rest of the video, it was nice to see you explore the evolutionary tree of movement from IdTech->GoldSrc->Source and how it shows up in games like Apex Legends, but there are so many other examples where the principles of bunnyhopping, particularly jumping to avoid friction with the ground, apply. The popular CPMA mod for Quake 3 adds QW-style bhopping if you're only holding the strafe keys as well as forward air control alongside the standard Q3 diagonal strafejumping (Anarki and Sorlag have access to CPMA movement in Quake: Champions as well). In Starsiege: Tribes, bunnyhopping was found to allow players to "ski" down slopes, which allowed them to build speed in combination with the jetpack when ascending slopes. This was recognized as an intended feature of Tribes 2, later replaced by smooth sliding in Tribes Vengeance and Tribes: Ascend, and the series is best known for its skiing mechanic today. In the first Thief game, jumping addds a bit of velocity which you can retain by bunnyhopping to gain ridiculous speeds. Painkiller has a form of bhopping that allows you to gain speed during the jump rather than having air control (I've never experienced it myself). Krunker.io is a fairly popular browser shooter that has slidehopping similar to TitanFall 2, though it's even more abusable with framerate-dependent turning and speed gain. DUSK homages the movement of Quake with ridiculous air control and speed gain simply for pressing a strafe key midair. The list of notable examples is quite extensive. The Q1/2/3 movement codes for you to peruse, look for the PM_Accelerate and PM_AirAccelerate functions: github.com/id-Software/Quake/blob/master/QW/client/pmove.c github.com/id-Software/Quake-2/blob/master/qcommon/pmove.c github.com/id-Software/Quake-III-Arena/blob/master/code/game/bg_pmove.c Re-enabling Q1 bhopping in Q3 by setting server movement variables: ua-cam.com/video/MgWqaDqkBD0/v-deo.html John Carmack's blog post about removing strafejumping in Q3: www.gamers.org/pub/archives/plans/johnc@idsoftware.com/1999-04-24_1999-06-05 KovaaK talks about "inventing" sliding in QuakeWorld www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/5kvqsh/cs_modders_who_invented_surf/dbrdjvv/
@Dam Sen Haha what? You're gonna come to the guy who writes a detailed comment about the intricacies of Quake movement on a video about the history of bhopping and expect him to agree that strafejumping should have been removed? Buddy, the high skill ceiling movement is the entire reason I engaged with Quake multiplayer at all. It adds a tremendous depth to combat maneuverability and map control and is also quite a lot of fun to practice and master on its own. I don't know what you mean by "impossible to counter" -- yes, you're at an inherent disadvantage if you aren't using it, but it's not like it stops you from being able to hit other players. I didn't dominate the leaderboard every Quake: Live match just because I practiced movement a ton. Strafejumping only lets you gather speed in straight lines, so it can't be used to slalom around opponents and dodge shots. In fact, a player who is jumping a lot will reveal their position through noise and becomes easy fodder for the lightning gun, so there IS a counter during close quarters combat. It only adds to the game's depth overall, admittedly at the cost of the game's approachability which is already quite prohibitive for new players. However, there are other more casual arena FPS games out there like Unreal Tournament if you're not into it; the advanced movement is what has given the Quake series longevity among many players. No hard feelings, this was just a really unexpected comment only an hour after I left mine haha.
@@rosodudersd260 awesome posts. I came to quake for the stories I heard from people playing QWTF, I stayed for the magical online experience and once I learned to bunny, I fell in love with it. I think the entire multiplayer party is over for the casual bunnyhop enthusiasts who just want to pick up the flag and go fast while dodging rockets. Well I did have this fever dream about Fall Guys meets QWTF trickjump maps, which seemed awesome, but I doubt that's going to ever happen.
about krunker.io, im a no life of that game, and its pretty cool you mentioned it. About the fps dependent movement thing, it still exists, but now movement like slide hopping, and jumping are being normalized across fps ranges. Air strafing is being worked on as well for pub matches; the one you can access right now in custom matches dont help speed in anyway, but it does give some in air control. There was a earlier version of this custom-only setting that massively helped speed and basically removed the speed "cap". Youd be able to use one slidehop that 2-4 normal slidehops would do, and even allowed people to go around maps in 7 seconds, when its usually more like 15 seconds. Theres a bunch more mechanics with krunker but i dont feel like typing a whole essay on youtube to... aha
@Dam Sen Based on the notification I received, you edited out the original beginning of your reply: "Ah yes, the typical arena shooter fanboy's elitist response. I'm tired of you people's bs so i'm going straight to the point". Why'd you delete that? I thought it fit the tone of the rest, really. Again I ask why you're coming to a video about bhop/strafejump appreciation to argue with random commenters about why it's a bad mechanic. Very weird obsession, my dude. I like arena shooters. However, and you may be surprised by this, I will freely admit I am not any good at them. When I'm not doing trick maps, I mostly just screw around in FFA/TDM/CTF because that's what's fun for me, but I also enjoy watching competitive duels. Everything you listed about arena shooters that is a "flaw" in your view, I like. Yes, competitive Quake is more about map control than shooting; that's something I like about it. Yes, it is not easy to read how much health your opponent will have due to overhealing and armor; that's something I like about it. Yes, rockets fill the role of area denial ("spamming"); that's something I like about it. Uh oh, it looks like this is all just personal preference! Where is the game design law that says a competitive shooter can't be about map control and resource management instead of just dodging and aiming? That adds another layer of complexity and yes, depth to gameplay as matches have more dynamic strategic considerations at play that evolve over the course of the match. That clip of Rapha shows that there are a ton of decisions being made at every moment, even if there isn't a fight going on all the time. Additionally, item pickups benefit casual games as you have to constantly be on the move for health, armor, and ammo rather than camping. Ironically, Battle Royale games demonstrate this principle even better, as scavenging for better gear is essential to winning, and those games are immensely popular beyond the greatest heights Team Fortress 2 ever reached. Where's the game design law that says a competitive shooter has to be "easy to learn, hard to master"? My favorite shooters are Tribes and Quake, both with a notoriously high skill floor, and I enjoyed throwing myself against the wall for hundreds of hours to learn both of them. Most people are not like me, so they'll prefer more approachable shooters. Cool, there are games for both of us. It's baffling to find myself arguing with someone about whether my favorite games need to be different because they're not popular enough. I might understand it if the likes of Quake were crowding out the market and preventing you from getting more games that are up your alley (something that I felt was true in singleplayer games during the seventh console generation), but given that you evidently have other games you prefer with a sizable playerbase to play with, I must heartily recommend that you dedicate your time and energy to those instead of arguing about the degenerate evils of niche shooters you dislike with their most ardent fans.
In Doom Eternal the bhop is a little different to source bhopping, instead of air strafing your speed boost is based on how high you fell, kinda like jumping down a ramp. So big falls give massive speed boosts and gives a lot of control.
ID started to be in favor of using Strafe Jumping (what it is actually called in Quake) and even added tutorials for it in Quake Live. Quake Champions has it as well and combined with Nail climbing, Rocket jumping and Tribolt jumping in QC and Grenade jumping in Quake 3 and QL, they are the deepest games in terms of movement right now, especially with CPM movement and crouch sliding in QC.
After watching this video I realized my life was in two parts: the dark first-half of walking before I knew bunny hopping, and the enlightened second-half where I jump everywhere I go.
Quick footnote (27:04) the hook swing actually originated from titanfall 2’s multiplayer and grappling hook ability. It could be done on any surface too. (Nice part is that the skill transferred over to doom eternal for me at least)
@@hoppinggnomethe4154 you play melee. learn and pull off every humanly possible technique. you wont be able to in under a decade. give the game some credit
"Similar to Doom, but Quake had something that other games in that genre did not have -- a complex movement system." Um... Doom had straferunning, wallrunning, gliding, void gliding, and even some degree of rocket jumping. Doom speedrunning is surprisingly complicated. The idea of straferunning carried over to the Quake engine and contributed to the speed boost that bunny hopping provides.
Rocket jumping was even the official way to get into the secret level exit in E3M6 :) It's possible to go there via straferunning too, but that's not the official way according to the wiki.
Most of them where glitches. Void glides are only possible in 2 maps. Glides are possible because of the 32 unite gab. It was all baked in. The id tech 1 engine or doom engine is pretty broken. Trust me I love doom literally my favorite game. But be honest it's a pretty broken engine. Infinite hights for barrels and monsters is broken as well
this is easily the most informative and well structured video on movement tech I've ever seen granted- it is also the *only* video on movement tech I've ever seen, but I definitely feel informed legit, there's games in that history I've played a lot of and never realized how broken the movement could get well done, man, really enjoying the quality of your videos and for sure this transition into another format is serving you well lookin' forward to seeing what you upload next👍
movement in quake was always important beside speedrunning, no one could ever win professionaly if they had not very good movement as well. completly missed out on quake history. and it also has a big recreational trickjump / speerun / timeattack community to this day
@@partydue123 it had a bad release time because of games that came out around the same time. But with the game going up on steam that brought the pc player count up. But it's nice playing and C-hopping all over the map and showing the new kids what's up.
It’s crazy how many parallels there can be drawn between valve n their games, and Nintendo and the smash brothers series. Even the things that enabled half life’s advanced movement tech are fundamentally similar to what allows melee to be such a fast, fluid game.
Yeah but it is not bunnyhopping. 2k4 had amazing movement system with double dodge/double jump wall dodge etc. It wasn't fast as bunnyhopping but had high skill ceiling and great map design to utilise it.
Definitely should have included the mods CPMA and DeFRaG for Quake 3, they made the movement complicated, useful and extremely versatile, and theres STILL tournaments in DeFRaG! Those tournaments also include the VQ3 movement system which is vanilla Quake 3, making it definitely applicable to this video in case youre going for pure games only
bhopping in l4d1 and 2 is the most satisfying type of bhopping to me, the sheer amount of velocity you can gain and how much skill and timing it requires to both strafe optimally and hit your jumps is extremely satisfactory
l4d2 hopping takes it to a whole nother level though. I shit you not I've wanted to write a documentary on this shit. For starters, if you can find a server with autohop on, the game's original teambased design takes a Complete backseat in favor of what is essentially a "run with the football" simulator. Anything past 400 speed and your main goal is trying to keep that speed while gaining more... with multiple changing variables to dodge/keep in mind such as common infected coming at you in SWARMS (which stop you from jumping with one hit), walls/props stopping you, proper timing to commonboost, special infected trying their absolute *Hardest* to gank you, and in some cases proper jump placement to do certain gaps or sequence skips in custom maps, among other things. l4d2 essentially takes everything you learn about (source) hopping and makes you pit that against zombies controlled by an almost sentient ai called the "director". What I've talked about is just the iceberg's Tip of what I've discovered. you eventually get addicted to trying to beat the system with your Sheer speed, it's a Truly fascinating byproduct, to say it was never intended. and if anyone hasnt already, try using autohop with a good airaccelerate on "Bloodharvest" and watch how fuckin quick you zoom to the end with all those hills. The first map is Literally done in seconds. hopping in this game is like no other, i'm Telling you.
@@JacobOnodera I'd love to get a list of them. They're dope. I've heard the half-life one before, I think its from the OST? EDIT- yep. I found it in the half-life install folder. If you don't have that, here you go: utmostpwnage.net/stuff/music/Valve%20-%20Half-Life%20-%2024%20Credits%20-%20Closing%20Theme.mp3 EDIT2- Actually, I'll upload you the full OST. It is gonna take a while, but should become available, here (and let me know if it doesnt work and I'll fix it) utmostpwnage.net/stuff/music/Half-Life+BlueShift+OpFor_OSTs.rar
A look at skiing in the tribes series of games would be a neat little 'spin off' video like this. The way it became integrated mechanically instead of fought against is neat
@@marcinwitkowski217 tribes ascend? Um. Starsiege Tribes. 1998. The skiing, or "bunny hopping" was much much faster. They slowed it down immensely in later Tribes titles in order to pander to the lower skill level gamers, and it's always fallen flat. it seems nothing will ever reach the heights that Starsiege Tribes reached
i dont understand why devs tried to kill off bunny hopping when people end up finding a way around the attempts to kill it. id rather let it free since its not gonna hurt casual play. why try to ruin the fun of speed runners? seeing people speed run games makes me excited to see how they will speed run the games that i release. why try to kill it? it makes no sense to me.
I think bunny hopping it's ok in singleplayer games, because in multiplayer it can be frustrating to other players that are new and don't know even how basic mechanics work, maybe they can learn, but it means that the game will force you to practice hours and hours to finally enjoy, not everyone have the time and patience to do this, more if it's a casual game and you only want to have a short good time
if you had to create your own game/physics engine as close to reality as possible without any coding mistakes you'd end up with NO bunnyhopping, it's just minor errors and oversights by the developers that lead to these bugs/techniques. Nowadays where nothing is done from scratch anymore people just choose a working game engine and modify (aka changing some parameters) that one to fit their needs. That means you'd have to intentionally fuck up or implement new movement techs, just for some people to fuck around with it?? Absolutely worth it though lol, imo every dev should do it, but at the same time I'm not hating on those that don't
@@juanvazquez5836 Maybe the wonky jump mechanics were in a bad way noticable even to regular players, so in that sense it was just a further step to polish the game. You should remember that the vast amount of players don't give a shit about glitches or even see them as a bad thing, so I can see why they would patch it, although at the time the bug was fixed the game was already old af so why even bother lol
Quake 2, 3, live and champions very much do have bunnyhopping, it's just a different style. The later games even encourage it massively and include it in the tutorials
I can definitely understand trying to remove bhopping from games that are supposed to be more strategy based like Counter-Strike, but for more fast-paced games like Quake, where you're basically always moving, bhopping fits right in with that style of play. Pretty much the only reason I can think of for why id tried to remove bhopping from Quake is because the existence of *any* quirk with their engine, even one that ultimately benefits the type of game they were trying to make, hurt their pride.
I’m really surprised you didn’t include Metroid prime, The movements in that game are broken, scan dashing and bunny hop all over the place. This was a good video ❤️
@@WaifuRuns you can bunny hop, it's just not easy or useful in the usually small rooms of the game, also because scan dashing is much faster. But for example in pendrhana shorelines and other rooms you can zoom around like crazy
WaifuRuns You should have mentioned TF2 since while not allowing one to move faster, it allows people playing trolldier to maintain a Market Gardener crit by tricking the source engine into thinking that they are still blast jumping
@@Lilly-Lilac Well it can be used on: rollouts with heavy and shooting with tomislav, engi,medic,sniper and very important with spys cloak as it goes down by time and not distance. It also feels as consisent as csgo I don't know what you mean? I have jump to scroll tho
@@Lilly-Lilac is this a recent thing? I know as medic and get your velocity to go over the set 300 limit to 340-360, HOWEVER last I checked was maybe 2017-ish.
Even though there's no bhopping specifically, TF2 deserves at LEAST an honorable mention, as it's the one valve game (technically) maintained and active to this day with seriously expressive skill-based movement.
12:09 "CS:S was a professionally played esport". This is not really true. CS:S was universally shunned by the competitive CS community, and the vast majority of the professional scene stuck with cs 1.6 all the way until 2012/13 when CSGO started gaining traction. There were a few people competing in source of course, but it was never even close to being the flagship game in the CS franchise.
Yeah professionally played is a bit of a stretch. Though the community did have enough people to have ESEA tournaments and things of similar scale so I guess it's arguable.
My game "Krunker" has a sort of bhop mechanic but there, It's based on TitanFalls 2 movement but it's called there "slidehopping". It's quite similar but a lot more difficult, in such, getting high speed there is very rewarding.
I don't do speedruns but everytime I try a new game I try to find out if I can bunnyhop or there's any exploit to go faster. I think it's just the need for speed lol quite literally
i would say quake champs has the most appreaciatation for the varieties of player movement the normal Q2/3 Bhop is the default move set though some passive abilities give cpma/Q1/HL1 style Bhop others get Q4 crouch sliding. then theres other things like a character has a teleport orb and takes less splash dmg or how another has a grappling hook, or another has what feels like a Demoknioght shield charge. also TF2 at least deserves mention for trimping/sticky jumping and more populary rocket jumping. while RJing is mostly from quake i feel TF2''s community embraces it the most. a newer titles to have their own variations of Bhopping are Dusk, viscera fest,and ultra kill
That BloodShot guy needs to go faster. Honestly a cool look into just movement systems in games as a whole. I personally like how Doom Eternal feels like they made some movement mechanics much more streamlined (bunny hops giving speed, rather than just maintaining it like in 2016 as a big example). I wish games would keep advanced movement as a thing more often, even if it's lowering the cieling but also the floor for movement. Obviously, low floor high cieling would be best, but as long as either side is catered too, rather than trying to get movement "specifically as intended" then I'm happy.
Really interesting video - again .. amazing depth and detail to it. I really enjoy these types of videos! .. Good job with it.. However, I do have to say I was expecting at least an honourable mention to "Wolfenstein Enemy Territory" which had just one of the best trick jumping communities I've ever seen in gaming. Amazing game unto itself as well as the trick jumping aspect of it. Great job
Bhopping definitely won't die. It's inevitable in the indie scene. It's just too core of a mechanic for anyone with quake or source engine nostalgia, and it's had Gmod as a big testing ground for how it could be used for more than fifteen years. Plus, it's _ridiculously_ easy to implement in pretty much any modern engine, like within an hour. It's not actually a quirk of the quake/source engine physics, like a lot of people think it is. It was just a small oversight with the movement code that pretty much every single FPS game uses. All you have to do is set friction to zero while mid-air, but keep some amount of acceleration. And you suddenly have the basic mechanic to build off of. New Blood, the guys that made Dusk, have already made _several_ quake inspired games that implemented these mechanics. And seeing what you can really do with a movement set-up _built around_ bhop is just a fun test project, even if it never ends up being a full game.
Games like TF2 have already shown that devs can make movement fun and straightforward without having to resort to adding janky and outdated bugs like b hopping.
@@justintime5445 Being bad at something doesn't make it janky or outdated. It's faster and more fluid than most modern movement systems, which is the only reason it was ever considered a bug.
@@Dogman_35 just look at titanfall. B hopping and fast movement made people insanely hard to hit. Because of this, the devs had to compensate by making every weapons deal so much damage. This kinda balances out things, but makes the game way too punishing for new players. TF2, on the other hand, removed bhopping (and a weird double/triple jump bug) very early in the games life, which made movement and class matchups much more dynamic and balanced, while also making it very simple for new players to atleast understand.
@@justintime5445 That's still just personal preference though. And also, it's not a very good argument because you can control the speed of bhop by changing _two numbers._ So that really doesn't excuse so many games making you feel like a boulder with a gun.
Just look at how the devs embraced and dropped their jaws when they saw Doom Eternal being speedrun with that slowdown jump buffering glitch, thing is mental now. Also yeah, bummer that devs hate skill based movement systems in favor of generic mechanics just to level out the playing field just for that bigger audience, like what? Little Timmy gonna get carpal tunnel syndrome if he mashes space bar too much? Boo hoo, sucks for him there are over 100 other keys on a normal keyboard that could be more comfortable for him :D All i'm trying to say is, growing up on Quake 3 Arena and learning that tighter bhopping technique gave me a sense of accomplishment as a player, like i can actually keep pace with the better players and not just slouch around, not counting remembering spawns or have map awareness. Where do devs try to push the competitive scene now? We live in an age where gaming and esports is more and more recognized as legit sport and they do nothing to build upon the foundations us players have been exploiting for so long and long after so much? Maybe devs should gather up players, like ACTUAL players and fans of the studio to have them not necessarily in the studio with them, but getting their input with the incentive of actually going out and making something that requires multiple skill sets to accomplish a set goal in a game and not ... classed based shooters ... of which there is an abundance of ... not counting TF2 because that game did better even if it weren't the first one per say. Cheers on the video, loved it, brought back tons of memories!
"it's not a bug, it's a feature".
- Quake 3.
Also DE with Warframe. They took being able to copter around at the speed of sound and made an entire movement system based off it.
Favorite game babyyyyy
"It's a bug, but won't solve." - Quake
Carmack and Willitz talk about how it was a mistake in Quake 1 and World, but purposely implemented into every Quake after it.
minecraft
History of B-hopping:
Player: “hey, check out this cool movement trick i found!”
Devs: >:(
Devs hate him!
Find out how this one trick can accelerate your movement speed!
hmm
@@griqs the only clickbait ad that's true
I hate how only a few devs are like yay bunny hopping :D
Aye I’m the 1k like.... idc tbh
Valve: Tries to fix bhop in hl2
Gamers: Prepare for unforeseen consequences.
backwards acceleration or something: Allow me to introduce myself
@@K.izm.a accelerated backhop
GMAN: admin he’s doing it sideways
NICE
@@leorevolo7966Alyx: through IVY and out Middle!
10:29 “this created some of the most insane moments in esports history”..... DOOR STUCK
Starts singing snoop dog
PLEASE, I BEG YA
The phantom
Interior like suicide wrist rags
Cheat on yo man homi- AAHHHHHHH tried to sneak through the door MAN
"The removal of skill based movement systems in favour of systems that are much more manageable but don't reward mastery of the mechanics is a problem that would permeate gaming throughout this era"
Right in the feeeeels
Oh my.
@@arkadyaaa tell that to respawn who removed it calling it a "bug"...
@@Bllksem What? In the loading screen for Titanfall 2 it recommends slide-hopping
@@socallmekarl4014 he probably means the changes in apex, like bunny hop healing
@@socallmekarl4014 not talking about titanfall, titanfall is a really good game and it feels like in apex it's an entirely different development team. Respawn made bhoppong almost useless by nerfing bhop healing in apex.
“Developers like id software grew up on quake”
Well they had to- they made quake????
the old guard did, but as times move forward, there's been new blood who probably looked back at those days and said: "man, Past ID were IDIOTS to try removing this cool shit"
Pretty sure he means many of the current devs?
Because the old devs who worked on the game like Romero and Carmack left id like years ago?
the same devs that made Doom Eternal at id software are not at all the same devs that made Quake 20 years ago lol.
@@catwiffhat4274 yes, but it still sounds funny.
ADMIN, HE'S DOING IT SIDEWAYS
Step-admin, what are you doing?
@@alparkryyy6712 You have an anime profile picture. You don't get to decide what's cringe
@@alparkryyy6712 It's actually made in paint. It's likely older than you
@@alparkryyy6712 kid you realise you have videos on your channel. And your second video has your voice. That's of course unless you employed a random 10 year old to voice the first part of the video but with *banger videos* like cringe montages and *omg get rekt hilarious responses to comments* i doubt it.
@@alparkryyy6712 Defeat
Everybody gangsta till people try bunny hopping on half life alyx.
Legs go: *Major Fracture Detected*
*jumps out window at 100 km/h*
Downstairs neighbors beware
Motion sickness here we go!
Stevie Wonder type shit
bhopping, surf, kz, hns, longjumping, flashboosting was literally my childhood. thanks for the nostalgia trip
Desinc:
“Okay so we’re going to do an accelerated back hop here”
@Dutch van Der Linde XDDDD
Do a midair spin off this zombie
Hey guys desinc here
Desinc be like: "Alright so their pretty much done now."
do a 360 off this zombie
doctor: How did you break your leg again?
me: I tried to do accelerated backwards bunny hop prop boost in Half Life Alyx...
octavio silva/"octane", 2377
Love the video, but I also feel like Team Fortress 2 is worth a mention! Valve attempted to remove bhopping and crouchspamming from the game (since Team Fortress Classic had very fast bhopping), but left in airstrafing, rampsliding, and lots of opportunities for damage-assisted movment. They even added weapons that specifically encouraged you to learn the movement system (ex: the sticky launcher did no damage but gave you explosive momentum), essentially making skill-based movment almost a requirement for its competitive scene. 4 of the 9 classes could move faster via self-damage, and every class benefitted from learning how to surf, since you could use your enemy's explosives to boost your momentum. As you went into the 6v6 competitive format (the one that's actually endorsed by the big leagues), you were limited to medic (duh), scout (the fastest base movement speed), soldier and demoman (the two classes with consistent, explosive-assisted movement)--ending with a team composition where half the players constantly self-damaged for movement. Fun!
Sorry about the wall of text!
I was kinda surprised that TF2 wasn't mentioned, I think it has one of the most expressive movement mechanics in a competitively played game while having the silliest community of any other.
TFC also had concjumping, good times
TF2 does still have 1 (non movement) use for bunny hopping, you can preserve market gardener crits with it
@@molarambiguity3510 also you can preserve airstrike airtime with it
@@molarambiguity3510 Yeah, of all the mentioned and not mentioned games TF2 is tye only one where classic BHop has direct influence on combat, with Airstrike and Market Gardener preserving their buffs while player is successfully bunny hopping. That's kind od unfair from some points of view, but having BHop amplifying direct combat abilities much more than movement is very interesting, i wish more games utilised jumps and mid-air state in the combat mechanics.
"Developers like ID software grew up on games like Quake", bruh they made Quake
Pretty much nobody who worked on Quake still works at id.
And trump grew up during the trump presidency whats your point
@ whoooooosh
@@Owlet7 same as obsidian this is why outer worlds is garbage
aaaaand credibility lost
who TF removes skill based movement on a single player game.
Devs really need to listen to complaints less lol
valve
Blizzard, who needs b-hopping or rocket jumping if you can just press shift to fly?
@@mandtcousins7121 Who needs to learn how to aim when you can pick winston
John Carmack wanted to have it removed and other ppl at idsoftware had to fight for it to stay.
Ok, Portal 2 didn't purposefully kill bhopping, the speed cap was mostly for the "Aerial Faith Plates" (Launchers) that launched you at 300 velocity, and they wanted you to not be able to strafe out of it. And you CAN break past this, mostly by crouching and precise movement.
THROUGH IVY, OUT MIDDLE, THROUGH OUR CONNECTOR. LIKE A SPEED DEMON
Admin HES DOING IT SIDEWAYS!!!
ah phoon
Where r my minecraft tricks?
I'm confused about the black mesa section, as a black mesa speedrunner I can definitely say you do gain speed while bhopping
Because optimally, you slide until 500 units per second then start bhopping and you can get to around 600 UPS in real world occurrences.
And you can start bhopping with no sliding and you will get to 600 ups just a bit slower
not really super sure myself most of the info i got on black mesa i got from the discord and waezone im sure i messed up some of the nuance
@@WaifuRuns too much games being analyzed in a short time...
"...He could be you! He could be me! He could *even* be-"
you might also wanna check out Ultrakill, whose devs have done the exact opposite of "fix" glitchy speedtech. if anything, Hakita has done the opposite of fixing and effectively sent the message of "hey look at what my fans found out they could do that i didn't know they could do with my game, isn't this shit neat?". it also helps that the game's main focus is best summed up by the tagline, "Devil May Quake"
im looking to buy ultrakill, this comment really get me more into it.
@@tPlayerioT you NEED to play ultrakill, it completely redefined the limits of boomer shooters and made a ton of super unique and complex mechanics that smoothly integrate with each other.
Me talking to my friends about Ultrakill "okay, so you know how half life 2 has that broken speed mechanic? Think that but it took ALL of the performance enhancing drugs"
hakita is a true game dev
he made a bug a necessary feature
now known as a projectile boost
Ultrakill is my favorite game. I think it's peak "boomer shooter" and one of the finest shooters of all time.
Bunnyhopping in FPS games: A respected as well as important skill and a difficult ability to master
Bunnyhopping in Minecraft: *H A C K S*
Its only bad in like survival games and skywars and bedwars
cause Bhopping isnt possible on minecrafts engine without a client tampering with it so that player gains a unfair advantage over others, minecraft bhopping is possible in minecraft why do you think you see so many players sprint jump its 30 percent faster then regular sprinting
@@flashrunner2689 the only possible of fast jump is when you sprint and spam jump on a two height block thing
@@fryanne9750 no sprint jumping is faster by 30 percent is what ive heard
@@flashrunner2689 yeah bhop is considered a hack, sprint jumping isnt but in sprint jumping you don't strafe so idk its not considered bunnyhopping but u cant bhop without hacks ^^
bind mwheeldown +jump
Only 90kids understand this
No
i usually use mwheelup lmao
or you could just use ahk
mwheelup +jump represent
I'm annoyed he didn't cover the quake 3 Defrag community that was solely for speedrunning and strafe jumping
Yeah its really good video but some aspects of bhop & movement history were unfortunately glossed over I think in the interest of time. He did mention Call of Duty but in the honorable mentions he said only Modern Warfare 2 which is kind of odd to me. If any Cod should get an honorable mention it's Cod 4 with Cod jumper community.
Bunny hopping should be considered a FEATURE in games and not a bug
They need to take up the Bethesda creed
L4D2 RocketDude Mushrooms
Actually there is @I Am Doge. One of the best examples i could give you is Krunker. This game basically makes it so that movement is a necessity to survive.
In fact they embraced it by removing a feature that made the bhopping only accessible for people with high fps.
I believe there is a future for bhopping
Remember when rocket jumping in team fortress was a bug but they madei t a feature
@@personmon3296 so? it was a bug that takes skill to use making it an ability by definition. Games should embrace this not cancel it.
23:19 man, that Titanfall 2 movement does look beautiful.
Source engine always provide satisfy movement
Credit to respawn they not only never nerf B-hop they embrace it by making slide hop have more timing window than regular b-hop
It is, espacially in MP in combination with grapple or stim
Boiboi,
Grapple slingshots are a thing of buty
In Beacon 2 we skip the entire map by soaring across rooftops - it's called super fastball. I wish he had shown it in the video, it just looks so clean
Yes it feels just amazing zipping through the map in mach 3 with a Kraber, quick scoping everybody you come across.
When the quiet kid starts backwards b hopping through the school and flys away on a *B R I C C*
Ok
Quiet kid is overused
@@sebru just like his AR-15
Ok
Man, TF2 still has one of the best movement systems to this day. Also now whenever I play a game without some form of fast movement mechanics, i feel so slow. Must be the curse of titanfall where every game feels slow now.
RIP Uncapped BHops in TF2.
2007-2007
Hitting a bhop market garden is still so satisfying even after 800+ hours in tf2
It physical hurts me to watch people play titanfall 2 while not slide hopping
@@PyreOManiac I cant do a bhop market garden even after 800+ hours in tf2
Try playing lrunker cause the movement is really fast and yeah i feel that it feels so slow after playing krunker (i cant play it anymore cause my laptop and wifi just lags)
Nobody:
Black Mesa and combine watching some dude in a orange suit loading shrapnel into his legs and quite literally flying:
He got a phd in theoretical physics then made physics theoretical
Quake 2 and beyond actually had very substantial bunny hopping mechanics, with entire mods and maps built around them. The behavior was just different from Quake/Half-Life style bunny hops. Also, LawBreakers really embraced crazy character movement with grapple swinging, slide jumping, laser boots, stab dashing, time dilation, gravity manipulation, firing backward to propel yourself forward, etc. Sadly, it didn't take off. :(
the video was going well until he mentioned the developers were trying to patch out bunny hopping in quake 2 and 3, that's completely wrong movement peaked with quake 3
@@infurness Yeah, I dont think speed was even capped in Q2 or Q3 while bhoping
@@infurness Yeah exactly like wtf. There is so much wrong with this video it hurts.
@@infurness whether or not they tried to remove it, Carmack definitely didn’t like bunny hopping and wanted to patch it out.
@@DiscoMouse would like a source for this because the console commands in q3 like pmove_fixed show otherwise
Some games like Halo are built around simple movement, and it shows when the devs implement... Well... Halo 5.
I thought halos movement was good
Edit: note i said good
@@zanesnep I liked the mythic slayer mode they had in there for a few months. They removed sprint and slide, but kept the thrust and the clamber. I think it’s a happy middle ground.
@@zanesnep What is actually so bad about Halo 5's movement? I prefer a more limited movement in Halo myself but Halo 5's movement was actually pretty sick I respect it: ua-cam.com/video/RUjbIaMCOko/v-deo.html
Shyway has a lot of videos covering the mechanics of Halo 5 there is a lot of skill involved in it you can think it's not Halo but to say it's terrible is not really accurate it's good enhanced mobility it gives the player a lot of skillful options for outplaying their opponents or just moving about.
@@zanesnep How I saw Halo 5's “enhanced mobility” was it essentially rewarded pro players who learn the movement tech and punished casuals for not learning it. There wasn't much besides competitive at the time and to me that was the downside besides the campaign.
@@Lin_Eileen don't tell him that real life has a sprint mechanic and slide mechanic
You can't measure the grin on my face when Titanfall showed up.
Yes, it’s one of my favorite games
Yeah and I skipped apex legend becsuse its garbage
@@fryanne9750 Are you mad they didn't make titanfall 3?
@@articdude833 uhh, actchualy we are titannfall2 player against apex legend, so don't put your unbiased and nitpicking opinion on me
@@fryanne9750 Bro I play titanfall 2
The movement mechanic in Quake 2 is generally called "strafe jumping" instead of "bunnyhopping".
Oversimplified you actually do have some air accel, but only when you're turning towards the angle your strafe was moving towards when you first jumped, whereas with bunnyhopping you can change your movement vector freely while mid air.
Also pre-strafing is a modern term that is confusing to a veteran like me, as we always called it circle jumping which i think is more descriptive.
This is about strafing in a half / quarter circle by keeping your mouse in a position that keeps your movement aligned with the direction you wish to travel towards.
To get an in depth explanation of this you can search for Quake 3 wishdir and you'll find the actual math involved behind this concept.
It's a little interesting that you toss off later Quakes, because while moving to strafejumping, they all allow faster movement than Q1 bunnyhopping, and Q4 also introduced crouchsliding, which offered the same acceleration while grounded with far more control, before games like Titanfall popularized it. Strafejumping was a formal mechanic in 3 and has tutorials in Live.
Quake CMPA and games like Reflex are also well-known for their Q3 strafejumping and air control which make them considerably faster than the main Quake titles they're based off of. In general, most id Tech games maintained strafejumping, including games like Prey(2006) and RAGE1.
Speedrunning/parkour maps aside, it is a shame more games don't utilize advanced movement in their games and levels. We of course have seen wall running sections in games like Titanfall, and various gaps and ledges to double jump to in games like Eternal, but there's typically a disconnect even these other mechanics are implemented. Counter Strike isn't built around bunnyhopping and nor is DOOM3, yet they both have those kind of mechanics. CPMA and more so Reflex are really some of the better examples of this, with the latter having many maps that are outright built around ramp and circle jumps.
Even the latest Quake, while not being the best one, does quite a neat thing, by introducing different bunny hopping techniques from Quake's past to different champions. (CPMA-ish movement for Anarki and Sorlag, the standard bunny hop for most champions and the crouch sliding based on falling height for Slash)
ADMIN HES DOING IT SIDEWAYS
i feel quake 1 is the faster duel game doe
Didn't know Prey had bunnyhopping, always played it more like a Cod style game or Doom 3
@@Mart-E12
In Prey, DOOM3 and RAGE1 it's nowhere near as strong as Quake games, and you have to time the jumps tightly to avoid losing all your speed because you can't buffer it.
It's not really useful anywhere(DOOM 3 has a few circle jumps you can use to skip areas in speedruns), but you can use it to slightly speed up the few longer stretches of walking, and for lolz you can get enough speed to break out of the planetoid gravity in Prey.
Quake 2/3/4 have strafejumping, which can get you much higher speed than NetQuake bunnyhopping and is arguably easier to do. Also you don't lose speed when landing on the ground in those titles (afaik)
Skill based movement was actually increased in later titles of Quake, which is why we have things like DeFraG World Cup to this day
I agree, im really upset that he omitted the whole history of strafe jumping, which is, on one side, objectively better than bunny hopping, and on the other the predecessor of bhopping
Very much agrees with this.. I used to play "Action Quake2" a lot and it was a key part of the game to be good at strafe-jumping and you could do some insane jumps between buildings etc..
Yeah I remember Defrag fondly, hours perfecting my speed really paid off when playing Free for All against friends lol.
"Developers like ID grew up with quake"
Proceeds to neglect quake champions, crafted by the current devs at ID.
he just meant today’s employees that work at id were kids when quake was coming out and they grew up on that shit
WRONG. Quake Champions was made by Saber Interactive
23:53 We actually call it "slide hopping" for the most part. And mastering slide hopping is essential for Titanfall 2 multiplayer - good thing it's actually really easy.
Facts: Best classic movement Quake 3 (vanilla). Best modern movement Titanfall 2
faaking stairs
TRIBES (and now Mid-Air) are also very cool
Nah, Quake World/Quake 1 has better movement than Quake 3
CPMA > VQ3
@@shadow50011 It was a tough call between Quake and Quake 3 but it came down to 3 being more polished. Also what tipped the scales was the more vibrant scene that has stood the test of time better. DeFRaG going strong, full servers (Quake Live but I consider it close enough for Q3), pro scene and new players still getting in to it. Don't get me wrong people still play Quake World but fuck me it's the same 1 or 2 guys in the server every time I go check randomly. They just live in the server, eat the textures to stay eternal, have mega long beards that are barely seen when they pass you by going backwards while you are being gibbed in an instant.
Me: *tries bhopping*
Game: “no, only pros can do that.”
It's pretty simple
I really can't bhop but it sure feels satisfying trying in almost every shooter I play
25:15 "Unfortunately, titan fall's 2 multiplayer didn't really take off" Remember the controversy over futuristic games and people were getting tired of in 2016? (Well probally not, but tired of cod doing it specifically) They had MWR in a bundle AND Battlefield 1, the year was pretty stacked IMO. Titanfall 2 just had a bad release
I'm still playing the damn game tho bc it's so good
Also not to mention that they dropped the ball with the pc community, where most are already used to and welcome advanced movement unlike their console counterparts, by releasing the game Origin only. When Titanfall 2 dropped on steam this year, the community boomed.
EA cucked it, released it right between their new battlefield and the cod that came out like 3 weeks later.
EA sabotaged the launch
Your writing, delivery and articulation are on point and one of the main things that keeps me coming back. Not to mention genuinely interesting topics and them sick thumbnails. Keep it up dude!
we ain't gonna talk about he said doom eternal came out in 2019
Ok, so it isnt just me, he did get that wrong
Yeah
Didnt he also get black mesa worng? it was released in 2015 wasnt it? or is that something different?
@@thejekky_br5022 Black Mesa came out in early access around that time but it wouldn't be fully released until 2020 with the addition of Xen levels.
she
One small inaccuracy, Half Life 2 and Episode 1 were released without the ABH glitch, its only when episode 2 came out (orange box) that ABH was introduced and backported to HL2
Not really, he did mention that ABH was brought by the new engine update, which implies the release of Episode 2, as new engine was the engine used for that.
@@xFluing I know new engine is quickly mentioned right at the start of the HL2 section, but doesn't mention Orange Box then implies it was based on CS Source instead (?), the video then goes on to say that bunny hopping in HL2 wasn't really a thing, until ABH was suddenly discovered. (?) Why did Valve try to patch it then? Just a small issue in how the script was written to transition from CSS to HL2 and while not technically incorrect, could be interpreted inaccurately due to a missing element (orange box).
@@sersoft_corp Well, you can't account for all theoretical "what ifs" remember the extra credits fiasco "durr what if playing as nazi in bf5 makes people want to be nazis"? That's a slippery slope you risk going down if you overthink too much.
@@xFluing LOL there is overthinking it, and then there's going completely off the deep end for no reason. I am not calling anyone a nazi, the video author loved my comment didn't he? I remember getting orange box like it was yesterday, in a contest on black mesa forums (hosted by gamer-node back then).
In Doom Eternal, there is also a trick of transferring vertical momentum into horizontal. That’s the main source of acceleration while hopping. For example, people initially double jump to gain height and that gives them a good boost. Also, it works even better when you drop from some height.
oh thanks for explaining i always wondered why bhop was possible in DE from simple slopes that go downwards or something
"Quake had something other games in that genre did not have"
Me: Nine Inch Nails
"A complex movement system"
Me: that too, I guess..
I appreciate seeing a video about the history of bhopping movement in games! However, as someone who has spent hundreds of hours practicing movement in Quake trick maps (QuakeWorld and Quake Live) and even pored over the movement code for several of the games, there were some inaccuracies and ommissions I thought worth addressing.
First of all, let's discuss how airstrafing actually works in Quake. Whether you're on the ground or in the air, when you hold a directional key the game stores a desired direction vector. The accelerate function then attempts to alter your movement in the desired direction by projecting your current velocity onto the desired direction and then subtracting the result from the max speed (ground 320, air 30). If the remainder is positive, it adds velocity in the desired direction by the remainder multiplied by the acceleration constant (ground 10, air 106) and the frametime. If you were to jump in place and hold a direction key, you'd quickly accelerate to 30 units of speed and go no faster until you hit the ground (similarly, you can more or less deadstop in midair by holding backwards). The trick with bhopping is you are constantly changing what direction you're asking the game to accelerate into, so it can never "catch up" to 30 units in a given direction and thus you always gain speed in the new direction.
Your comment that holding W while bhopping causes you to lose speed is incorrect -- it turns out there's nothing special about the left/right strafe keys in this context, they just happen to provide the best speed tradeoff as they are perpendicular your view angle. You can bhop with forward movement and diagonal strafe in Quake, they simply require a faster mouse turn rate and result in tighter curves than strafe bhopping (if you try forward bhopping you will find yourself moving in a tight circle). Furthermore, it is completely false to say that the later Quake games removed airstrafing! Quake 2 and onwards actually have the EXACT same movement algorithm (with slightly different implementation), the difference is in the constants that drive movement. In Quake 1, max groundspeed is 320 and ground acceleration is 10, while max airspeed is 30 and air acceleration is 106. In Quake 2/3/Live/etc., the max airspeed is equal to the max groundspeed at 320, but the air acceleration used is only 1. This means you can actually gain a lot of speed in a given direction, but it is acquired more gradually. This results in "strafejumping", where you try to angle the mouse at a slowly drifting sweet spot relative to your motion rather than turning your mouse at a constant rate. Strafejumping is less flexible than bhopping as you can't perform tight turns with it, but it can allow the player to go much faster overall. You're probably mixing up your story with the fact that John Carmack sought to remove strafejumping in Q3 at one point; in the Q3 movement code, you can find a "proper" implementation of air control that avoids the "strafe jump maxspeed bug", but is commented out because it "feels bad". This lines up with Carmack's blog post where he says he tried to remove the strafejumping exploit, but reverted it because it "changed the normal running movement in an unfortunate way". Lucky break we got there! The other fun fact about Q2 is that it actually retains the Q1 air accelerate function but simply has it off by default in favor of the unified accelerate function used for ground and air alike. You can re-enable bhopping in Q2 multiplayer if you set sv_airaccelerate to 106 (doesn't work in Q2 singleplayer sadly, as pm_airaccelerate is hardcoded to 0). Similarly, you can re-enable bhopping in Q3 by setting sv_maxairspeed from 320 to 30 and sv_airaccelerate from 1 to 106.
Marriowned may have introduced surfing to CounterStrike in 2004, but the concept dates back earlier to QuakeWorld's 1999 "Slide" mod. While it was originally intended to be played with an included hoverboard, a player named KovaaK discovered circa 2002 that you could simply slide down most of the slopes in the maps using the strafe keys. There are many bhop and slide trick maps in QuakeWorld very much like those in CounterStrike (you'll find me practicing them on the KTX servers pretty often). I should also note that the main difference between Quake and Half-Life bhopping is not the presence of friction (both have it in pretty much the same amount), but rather the fact that Quake has input queuing for jump, meaning that you can press and hold the jump key as soon as you enter the air to queue the next jump without having to muck around with scrollwheel or macros. It's for that reason that I'd consider QuakeWorld bhopping the most accessible.
As for the rest of the video, it was nice to see you explore the evolutionary tree of movement from IdTech->GoldSrc->Source and how it shows up in games like Apex Legends, but there are so many other examples where the principles of bunnyhopping, particularly jumping to avoid friction with the ground, apply. The popular CPMA mod for Quake 3 adds QW-style bhopping if you're only holding the strafe keys as well as forward air control alongside the standard Q3 diagonal strafejumping (Anarki and Sorlag have access to CPMA movement in Quake: Champions as well). In Starsiege: Tribes, bunnyhopping was found to allow players to "ski" down slopes, which allowed them to build speed in combination with the jetpack when ascending slopes. This was recognized as an intended feature of Tribes 2, later replaced by smooth sliding in Tribes Vengeance and Tribes: Ascend, and the series is best known for its skiing mechanic today. In the first Thief game, jumping addds a bit of velocity which you can retain by bunnyhopping to gain ridiculous speeds. Painkiller has a form of bhopping that allows you to gain speed during the jump rather than having air control (I've never experienced it myself). Krunker.io is a fairly popular browser shooter that has slidehopping similar to TitanFall 2, though it's even more abusable with framerate-dependent turning and speed gain. DUSK homages the movement of Quake with ridiculous air control and speed gain simply for pressing a strafe key midair. The list of notable examples is quite extensive.
The Q1/2/3 movement codes for you to peruse, look for the PM_Accelerate and PM_AirAccelerate functions:
github.com/id-Software/Quake/blob/master/QW/client/pmove.c
github.com/id-Software/Quake-2/blob/master/qcommon/pmove.c
github.com/id-Software/Quake-III-Arena/blob/master/code/game/bg_pmove.c
Re-enabling Q1 bhopping in Q3 by setting server movement variables:
ua-cam.com/video/MgWqaDqkBD0/v-deo.html
John Carmack's blog post about removing strafejumping in Q3:
www.gamers.org/pub/archives/plans/johnc@idsoftware.com/1999-04-24_1999-06-05
KovaaK talks about "inventing" sliding in QuakeWorld
www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/5kvqsh/cs_modders_who_invented_surf/dbrdjvv/
@Dam Sen Haha what? You're gonna come to the guy who writes a detailed comment about the intricacies of Quake movement on a video about the history of bhopping and expect him to agree that strafejumping should have been removed? Buddy, the high skill ceiling movement is the entire reason I engaged with Quake multiplayer at all. It adds a tremendous depth to combat maneuverability and map control and is also quite a lot of fun to practice and master on its own. I don't know what you mean by "impossible to counter" -- yes, you're at an inherent disadvantage if you aren't using it, but it's not like it stops you from being able to hit other players. I didn't dominate the leaderboard every Quake: Live match just because I practiced movement a ton. Strafejumping only lets you gather speed in straight lines, so it can't be used to slalom around opponents and dodge shots. In fact, a player who is jumping a lot will reveal their position through noise and becomes easy fodder for the lightning gun, so there IS a counter during close quarters combat. It only adds to the game's depth overall, admittedly at the cost of the game's approachability which is already quite prohibitive for new players. However, there are other more casual arena FPS games out there like Unreal Tournament if you're not into it; the advanced movement is what has given the Quake series longevity among many players.
No hard feelings, this was just a really unexpected comment only an hour after I left mine haha.
@@rosodudersd260 awesome posts. I came to quake for the stories I heard from people playing QWTF, I stayed for the magical online experience and once I learned to bunny, I fell in love with it.
I think the entire multiplayer party is over for the casual bunnyhop enthusiasts who just want to pick up the flag and go fast while dodging rockets.
Well I did have this fever dream about Fall Guys meets QWTF trickjump maps, which seemed awesome, but I doubt that's going to ever happen.
about krunker.io, im a no life of that game, and its pretty cool you mentioned it. About the fps dependent movement thing, it still exists, but now movement like slide hopping, and jumping are being normalized across fps ranges. Air strafing is being worked on as well for pub matches; the one you can access right now in custom matches dont help speed in anyway, but it does give some in air control. There was a earlier version of this custom-only setting that massively helped speed and basically removed the speed "cap". Youd be able to use one slidehop that 2-4 normal slidehops would do, and even allowed people to go around maps in 7 seconds, when its usually more like 15 seconds. Theres a bunch more mechanics with krunker but i dont feel like typing a whole essay on youtube to... aha
@Dam Sen Based on the notification I received, you edited out the original beginning of your reply: "Ah yes, the typical arena shooter fanboy's elitist response. I'm tired of you people's bs so i'm going straight to the point". Why'd you delete that? I thought it fit the tone of the rest, really. Again I ask why you're coming to a video about bhop/strafejump appreciation to argue with random commenters about why it's a bad mechanic. Very weird obsession, my dude.
I like arena shooters. However, and you may be surprised by this, I will freely admit I am not any good at them. When I'm not doing trick maps, I mostly just screw around in FFA/TDM/CTF because that's what's fun for me, but I also enjoy watching competitive duels. Everything you listed about arena shooters that is a "flaw" in your view, I like. Yes, competitive Quake is more about map control than shooting; that's something I like about it. Yes, it is not easy to read how much health your opponent will have due to overhealing and armor; that's something I like about it. Yes, rockets fill the role of area denial ("spamming"); that's something I like about it. Uh oh, it looks like this is all just personal preference!
Where is the game design law that says a competitive shooter can't be about map control and resource management instead of just dodging and aiming? That adds another layer of complexity and yes, depth to gameplay as matches have more dynamic strategic considerations at play that evolve over the course of the match. That clip of Rapha shows that there are a ton of decisions being made at every moment, even if there isn't a fight going on all the time. Additionally, item pickups benefit casual games as you have to constantly be on the move for health, armor, and ammo rather than camping. Ironically, Battle Royale games demonstrate this principle even better, as scavenging for better gear is essential to winning, and those games are immensely popular beyond the greatest heights Team Fortress 2 ever reached.
Where's the game design law that says a competitive shooter has to be "easy to learn, hard to master"? My favorite shooters are Tribes and Quake, both with a notoriously high skill floor, and I enjoyed throwing myself against the wall for hundreds of hours to learn both of them. Most people are not like me, so they'll prefer more approachable shooters. Cool, there are games for both of us. It's baffling to find myself arguing with someone about whether my favorite games need to be different because they're not popular enough. I might understand it if the likes of Quake were crowding out the market and preventing you from getting more games that are up your alley (something that I felt was true in singleplayer games during the seventh console generation), but given that you evidently have other games you prefer with a sizable playerbase to play with, I must heartily recommend that you dedicate your time and energy to those instead of arguing about the degenerate evils of niche shooters you dislike with their most ardent fans.
I am so impressed by the sheer length of your comments that I might just gather the courage to read them. You two are fucking great.
In Doom Eternal the bhop is a little different to source bhopping, instead of air strafing your speed boost is based on how high you fell, kinda like jumping down a ramp. So big falls give massive speed boosts and gives a lot of control.
ID started to be in favor of using Strafe Jumping (what it is actually called in Quake) and even added tutorials for it in Quake Live. Quake Champions has it as well and combined with Nail climbing, Rocket jumping and Tribolt jumping in QC and Grenade jumping in Quake 3 and QL, they are the deepest games in terms of movement right now, especially with CPM movement and crouch sliding in QC.
Strafe jumping is just bunny hopping but id's version
@@rbahiaofc Strafe jumping literally came first and they work differently.
@@magmamaster1801 oops
Ngl, would be cool if they released a quake collection
lmao at the guy not including qc
"Developers at Id Software grew up with Quake, and it shows."
Noooooo, couldn't be.
i swear i was doing wires
Grew up with it not on it
@Alex Harman waifuruns kinda sus
@@wumbogt3310 i saw waifuruns vent
@@juliethsantander728 I saw him do medbay scan
6:43 legendary music starts
26:30 Hang on, Doom Eternal released in 2020 not 2019
Yeah lol it came out less than 6 months ago
be honest
he, like all of us, wanted to forget 2020 existed
@@ZeyLogger announced in 2018, original release date was november 2019, got delayed to march 2020
Loquen no it came out for early testing in 2012
Oh god thanks. I got a minor gaslighting crisis in my head because of that.
Bro the entire intro was just
"Hmm yes the floor is made out of floor"
Buzz light year!
Bunny hopping is like my favorite mechanic in games, they need to start bringing it back into more games.
i support this
Its literally an engine bug, not a feature lol
@@poopy69 it needs to be a feature in more games tho lol
@@poopy69 Well it’s better than most actual mechanics they keep putting in these new games
k boomer
After watching this video I realized my life was in two parts: the dark first-half of walking before I knew bunny hopping, and the enlightened second-half where I jump everywhere I go.
Quick footnote (27:04) the hook swing actually originated from titanfall 2’s multiplayer and grappling hook ability. It could be done on any surface too. (Nice part is that the skill transferred over to doom eternal for me at least)
Quake has the best movement tech in gaming
Melee: IS THIS A PERSONAL ATTACK!?!?!?
Melee is nothing in comparison. It's just like grenade button and reload button.
@@hoppinggnomethe4154 you play melee. learn and pull off every humanly possible technique. you wont be able to in under a decade. give the game some credit
"Similar to Doom, but Quake had something that other games in that genre did not have -- a complex movement system."
Um... Doom had straferunning, wallrunning, gliding, void gliding, and even some degree of rocket jumping. Doom speedrunning is surprisingly complicated. The idea of straferunning carried over to the Quake engine and contributed to the speed boost that bunny hopping provides.
Straferunning, everything else you mentionned was unintentional, unlike Quake, which was made to be in the game.
@@RetroChug not true, bhopping was not intentional in quake...
SR50 for the win
Rocket jumping was even the official way to get into the secret level exit in E3M6 :)
It's possible to go there via straferunning too, but that's not the official way according to the wiki.
Most of them where glitches. Void glides are only possible in 2 maps. Glides are possible because of the 32 unite gab. It was all baked in. The id tech 1 engine or doom engine is pretty broken. Trust me I love doom literally my favorite game. But be honest it's a pretty broken engine. Infinite hights for barrels and monsters is broken as well
this is easily the most informative and well structured video on movement tech I've ever seen
granted- it is also the *only* video on movement tech I've ever seen, but I definitely feel informed
legit, there's games in that history I've played a lot of and never realized how broken the movement could get
well done, man, really enjoying the quality of your videos and for sure this transition into another format is serving you well
lookin' forward to seeing what you upload next👍
movement in quake was always important beside speedrunning, no one could ever win professionaly if they had not very good movement as well. completly missed out on quake history. and it also has a big recreational trickjump / speerun / timeattack community to this day
“The key factor in going fast is the way you move” incredible
glanker
Tomorrow na
Timo bamo p8gs
Titanfall 2 is one of the greatest games of all time. Hands down the best movement mechanics.
its kind of sad that the game didnt see much attention until this year
@@partydue123 it had a bad release time because of games that came out around the same time. But with the game going up on steam that brought the pc player count up. But it's nice playing and C-hopping all over the map and showing the new kids what's up.
@@teffsly ffs its slidehopping
@@teffsly I sick of brynado fanboys calling stuff how their sPeEdRuNnEr GoD calls it
@@ToxicOnAWave In the speedrun we call it slide hopping and its a community term
It’s crazy how many parallels there can be drawn between valve n their games, and Nintendo and the smash brothers series. Even the things that enabled half life’s advanced movement tech are fundamentally similar to what allows melee to be such a fast, fluid game.
Its because they are all based on the fundamental physics of the quake 1 engine.
Everyone forgets Unreal Tournament when talking gaming history but its where most of us began.
Yeah but it is not bunnyhopping. 2k4 had amazing movement system with double dodge/double jump wall dodge etc. It wasn't fast as bunnyhopping but had high skill ceiling and great map design to utilise it.
>the history of Bhopping
>doesn't mention Quake Champions
come on man, its got all the good Quake movement systems in one game.
>greentext on UA-cam comments in 2020
>quake champions
Comment discarded.
@@SuperDuperSeb
> imagine being bothered
> by meme arrows
Definitely should have included the mods CPMA and DeFRaG for Quake 3, they made the movement complicated, useful and extremely versatile, and theres STILL tournaments in DeFRaG! Those tournaments also include the VQ3 movement system which is vanilla Quake 3, making it definitely applicable to this video in case youre going for pure games only
bhopping in l4d1 and 2 is the most satisfying type of bhopping to me, the sheer amount of velocity you can gain and how much skill and timing it requires to both strafe optimally and hit your jumps is extremely satisfactory
yeah whenever i get like 600 velocity in l4d i practically have an orgasm lol
l4d2 hopping takes it to a whole nother level though. I shit you not I've wanted to write a documentary on this shit. For starters, if you can find a server with autohop on, the game's original teambased design takes a Complete backseat in favor of what is essentially a "run with the football" simulator. Anything past 400 speed and your main goal is trying to keep that speed while gaining more... with multiple changing variables to dodge/keep in mind such as common infected coming at you in SWARMS (which stop you from jumping with one hit), walls/props stopping you, proper timing to commonboost, special infected trying their absolute *Hardest* to gank you, and in some cases proper jump placement to do certain gaps or sequence skips in custom maps, among other things. l4d2 essentially takes everything you learn about (source) hopping and makes you pit that against zombies controlled by an almost sentient ai called the "director". What I've talked about is just the iceberg's Tip of what I've discovered. you eventually get addicted to trying to beat the system with your Sheer speed, it's a Truly fascinating byproduct, to say it was never intended. and if anyone hasnt already, try using autohop with a good airaccelerate on "Bloodharvest" and watch how fuckin quick you zoom to the end with all those hills. The first map is Literally done in seconds. hopping in this game is like no other, i'm Telling you.
Can't get enough of Speedrunning content. Top video my man!
This video was informative and really expressive of how movement in games is a clear fundamental no matter what it may be
speedrunners: finishes 5 hour long game in 10 minutes
me: still hasn't completed Skyrim main quest line after 9 years
oh skyrim how much i love you, best open world game
Skyrim is just so good that the community its still alive after 9 years
@@MAlru005 witcher 3 is better
@@HenriqueRJchiki your opinion is wrong
@@kingrowe8831 it's not an opinion, it's an objective fact.
*hits play* immediately: "OH MAN WHAT IS THAT MUSIC"
You know any of the songs played in the sections? (especially the half life one)
@@JacobOnodera
I'd love to get a list of them. They're dope. I've heard the half-life one before, I think its from the OST?
EDIT- yep. I found it in the half-life install folder. If you don't have that, here you go: utmostpwnage.net/stuff/music/Valve%20-%20Half-Life%20-%2024%20Credits%20-%20Closing%20Theme.mp3
EDIT2- Actually, I'll upload you the full OST. It is gonna take a while, but should become available, here (and let me know if it doesnt work and I'll fix it) utmostpwnage.net/stuff/music/Half-Life+BlueShift+OpFor_OSTs.rar
Why do I hear boss music?
@@TheTopMostDog awesome man, thanks!
A look at skiing in the tribes series of games would be a neat little 'spin off' video like this. The way it became integrated mechanically instead of fought against is neat
Yeah, if only it were around still :/
Was looking to see some mention of tribes ascend
@@marcinwitkowski217 tribes ascend? Um. Starsiege Tribes. 1998. The skiing, or "bunny hopping" was much much faster. They slowed it down immensely in later Tribes titles in order to pander to the lower skill level gamers, and it's always fallen flat. it seems nothing will ever reach the heights that Starsiege Tribes reached
Painkiller and CPMA should be mentioned
also quake 1 speedrun is hugely dependent on grenade and rocket jumping so I'm not sure why you say hl pioneered damage boosting
Have to agree, as far as I know it made jumping mechanics a core aspect way earlier than most other games like Titanfall 2
Wait you can bhop in painkiller? All of them? I did not know that, mainly because I never tried.
@@RapGameFresh I dunno I've only played the first one, but I assume so
@@RapGameFresh Only played Black Edition but you seem to cover distance much faster when hopping than running
i dont understand why devs tried to kill off bunny hopping when people end up finding a way
around the attempts to kill it.
id rather let it free since its not gonna hurt casual play.
why try to ruin the fun of speed runners?
seeing people speed run games makes me excited to
see how they will speed run the games that i release.
why try to kill it?
it makes no sense to me.
I think bunny hopping it's ok in singleplayer games, because in multiplayer it can be frustrating to other players that are new and don't know even how basic mechanics work, maybe they can learn, but it means that the game will force you to practice hours and hours to finally enjoy, not everyone have the time and patience to do this, more if it's a casual game and you only want to have a short good time
if you had to create your own game/physics engine as close to reality as possible without any coding mistakes you'd end up with NO bunnyhopping, it's just minor errors and oversights by the developers that lead to these bugs/techniques. Nowadays where nothing is done from scratch anymore people just choose a working game engine and modify (aka changing some parameters) that one to fit their needs.
That means you'd have to intentionally fuck up or implement new movement techs, just for some people to fuck around with it?? Absolutely worth it though lol, imo every dev should do it, but at the same time I'm not hating on those that don't
I understand nerfing it in a competitive pro league game like CSGO, but half life 2? lol
@@juanvazquez5836 Maybe the wonky jump mechanics were in a bad way noticable even to regular players, so in that sense it was just a further step to polish the game. You should remember that the vast amount of players don't give a shit about glitches or even see them as a bad thing, so I can see why they would patch it, although at the time the bug was fixed the game was already old af so why even bother lol
not all dev just look krunker but it's call slide hopping and it's broken as FUCK
Quake 2, 3, live and champions very much do have bunnyhopping, it's just a different style. The later games even encourage it massively and include it in the tutorials
I can definitely understand trying to remove bhopping from games that are supposed to be more strategy based like Counter-Strike, but for more fast-paced games like Quake, where you're basically always moving, bhopping fits right in with that style of play. Pretty much the only reason I can think of for why id tried to remove bhopping from Quake is because the existence of *any* quirk with their engine, even one that ultimately benefits the type of game they were trying to make, hurt their pride.
I’m really surprised you didn’t include Metroid prime, The movements in that game are broken, scan dashing and bunny hop all over the place. This was a good video ❤️
while the movment in metroid prime is really cool its not really the same as bunnyhopping.
@@WaifuRuns you can bunny hop, it's just not easy or useful in the usually small rooms of the game, also because scan dashing is much faster. But for example in pendrhana shorelines and other rooms you can zoom around like crazy
WaifuRuns You should have mentioned TF2 since while not allowing one to move faster, it allows people playing trolldier to maintain a Market Gardener crit by tricking the source engine into thinking that they are still blast jumping
I watched this
woo
I too, watched this
Fake news alert
Lol
Same
Honestly expected Team Fortress 2 there, even tho it hasn't got Bhop, it has it's own bunch of "tricks"
You can bhop in tf2
@@therealwetwizard it’s only useful in 2 scenarios: power jack pyro or extending gardens. It’s not very consistent in tf2 so it’s not very practical
@@Lilly-Lilac Well it can be used on: rollouts with heavy and shooting with tomislav, engi,medic,sniper and very important with spys cloak as it goes down by time and not distance. It also feels as consisent as csgo I don't know what you mean? I have jump to scroll tho
@@therealwetwizard no, they patched bhops so they dont give speed. the power jack is still bugged so it gives a minor increase.
@@Lilly-Lilac is this a recent thing? I know as medic and get your velocity to go over the set 300 limit to 340-360, HOWEVER last I checked was maybe 2017-ish.
A speedrun historian !
keep em coming!
Even though there's no bhopping specifically, TF2 deserves at LEAST an honorable mention, as it's the one valve game (technically) maintained and active to this day with seriously expressive skill-based movement.
12:09 "CS:S was a professionally played esport". This is not really true. CS:S was universally shunned by the competitive CS community, and the vast majority of the professional scene stuck with cs 1.6 all the way until 2012/13 when CSGO started gaining traction. There were a few people competing in source of course, but it was never even close to being the flagship game in the CS franchise.
It was an infamous son, but at least it wasnt a black sheep like CS:CZ . Lel
Why is that?
What make it so different from 1.6?
Just curious here
@@firstnamesurname2482 Less punishing movement inaccuracy and recoil
@@adamismail2883 I see
IIRC, isn't early days of CSGO is bad too?
I've read a comment about that.
Yeah professionally played is a bit of a stretch. Though the community did have enough people to have ESEA tournaments and things of similar scale so I guess it's arguable.
6:33 "Likewise, Developers targetting bunny hopping for elimination..."
The NOISE I just made...
My game "Krunker" has a sort of bhop mechanic but there, It's based on TitanFalls 2 movement but it's called there "slidehopping". It's quite similar but a lot more difficult, in such, getting high speed there is very rewarding.
Yep, was gonna make a comment on Krunker but I guess you beat me to it. Haven't played in a while.
I don't do speedruns but everytime I try a new game I try to find out if I can bunnyhop or there's any exploit to go faster. I think it's just the need for speed lol quite literally
sameeee
even by then its still fun to move by jumping around instead of normally moving in a straight line
Surprised that Tribes is missing from the honourable mentions list.
Right. How you talk about bunny hopping and not mention tribes.
@@kwiztas Came here to post this. I'm so confused right now.
Its part of "and many many more"
quake champions has literally multiple independent movement mechanics, namely all of the greatest hits.
"doom eternal released in 2019" yeah i dont know about that one
Lol
Neither does he lmao
i would say quake champs has the most appreaciatation for the varieties of player movement the normal Q2/3 Bhop is the default move set though some passive abilities give cpma/Q1/HL1 style Bhop others get Q4 crouch sliding. then theres other things like a character has a teleport orb and takes less splash dmg or how another has a grappling hook, or another has what feels like a Demoknioght shield charge.
also TF2 at least deserves mention for trimping/sticky jumping and more populary rocket jumping. while RJing is mostly from quake i feel TF2''s community embraces it the most.
a newer titles to have their own variations of Bhopping are Dusk, viscera fest,and ultra kill
Love how every single apex clip was aceu, that dude is a god among men.
That BloodShot guy needs to go faster.
Honestly a cool look into just movement systems in games as a whole. I personally like how Doom Eternal feels like they made some movement mechanics much more streamlined (bunny hops giving speed, rather than just maintaining it like in 2016 as a big example). I wish games would keep advanced movement as a thing more often, even if it's lowering the cieling but also the floor for movement. Obviously, low floor high cieling would be best, but as long as either side is catered too, rather than trying to get movement "specifically as intended" then I'm happy.
yes! this is the whole reason i made this video because i hold the same opinion. Tis a shame how many games are just holding w now adays
Really interesting video - again .. amazing depth and detail to it. I really enjoy these types of videos! .. Good job with it.. However, I do have to say I was expecting at least an honourable mention to "Wolfenstein Enemy Territory" which had just one of the best trick jumping communities I've ever seen in gaming. Amazing game unto itself as well as the trick jumping aspect of it.
Great job
I still check WET every once and a while just to see if anyone is on... :(
I’m very glad that this ended up in my recommended. Gonna look more into your content.
Imagine banning bunny-hopping in a CS:S server lol. How bad are they to ban bunny-hopping?
@@mrmeep5989 2gud4them
my friend learned how to b-hop legit then his csgo account got perma banned..
this sucks
@@bananagun6598 Nobody gets banned for being legit. Your friend is a cheater.
@@mnamethonk what makes you think that, he plays the game for years
@x x u sure
Bunnyhopping: *Exists*
Speedrunners: "A full commitment's what I'm thinking of
. You wouldn't get this from any other guy"
Oh hi
Hello guy of culture
“and this slide hives a speed- slvs” 23:42
Bhopping definitely won't die. It's inevitable in the indie scene. It's just too core of a mechanic for anyone with quake or source engine nostalgia, and it's had Gmod as a big testing ground for how it could be used for more than fifteen years. Plus, it's _ridiculously_ easy to implement in pretty much any modern engine, like within an hour.
It's not actually a quirk of the quake/source engine physics, like a lot of people think it is. It was just a small oversight with the movement code that pretty much every single FPS game uses. All you have to do is set friction to zero while mid-air, but keep some amount of acceleration. And you suddenly have the basic mechanic to build off of.
New Blood, the guys that made Dusk, have already made _several_ quake inspired games that implemented these mechanics.
And seeing what you can really do with a movement set-up _built around_ bhop is just a fun test project, even if it never ends up being a full game.
Games like TF2 have already shown that devs can make movement fun and straightforward without having to resort to adding janky and outdated bugs like b hopping.
@@justintime5445 Being bad at something doesn't make it janky or outdated. It's faster and more fluid than most modern movement systems, which is the only reason it was ever considered a bug.
@@Dogman_35 just look at titanfall. B hopping and fast movement made people insanely hard to hit. Because of this, the devs had to compensate by making every weapons deal so much damage. This kinda balances out things, but makes the game way too punishing for new players. TF2, on the other hand, removed bhopping (and a weird double/triple jump bug) very early in the games life, which made movement and class matchups much more dynamic and balanced, while also making it very simple for new players to atleast understand.
@@justintime5445 That's still just personal preference though. And also, it's not a very good argument because you can control the speed of bhop by changing _two numbers._
So that really doesn't excuse so many games making you feel like a boulder with a gun.
Everybody gangsta till he starts doing it sideways
My guess as to why Titanfall's multiplayer didn't take off is because people like me can't get into learning Bhop while being Bhopped to death.
“Developers like ID Software grew up on Quake”
They invented Quake.
Trouble in large numbers
Yeah,
*_But they literally invented Quake._*
@@noyes. Not necessarily, as none of the original Quake devs are still working at id.
xFluing
*But the company literally invented Quake*
No Yes the current developers didnt
Kiwi
But the current company,
*literally invented Quake.*
Wow, very underrated. Great vid!
7:49 "if u compare this to bunny hoping in real life" me: goes out side and tries to bunny hop, look like a moron
Just look at how the devs embraced and dropped their jaws when they saw Doom Eternal being speedrun with that slowdown jump buffering glitch, thing is mental now.
Also yeah, bummer that devs hate skill based movement systems in favor of generic mechanics just to level out the playing field just for that bigger audience, like what? Little Timmy gonna get carpal tunnel syndrome if he mashes space bar too much? Boo hoo, sucks for him there are over 100 other keys on a normal keyboard that could be more comfortable for him :D
All i'm trying to say is, growing up on Quake 3 Arena and learning that tighter bhopping technique gave me a sense of accomplishment as a player, like i can actually keep pace with the better players and not just slouch around, not counting remembering spawns or have map awareness. Where do devs try to push the competitive scene now? We live in an age where gaming and esports is more and more recognized as legit sport and they do nothing to build upon the foundations us players have been exploiting for so long and long after so much? Maybe devs should gather up players, like ACTUAL players and fans of the studio to have them not necessarily in the studio with them, but getting their input with the incentive of actually going out and making something that requires multiple skill sets to accomplish a set goal in a game and not ... classed based shooters ... of which there is an abundance of ... not counting TF2 because that game did better even if it weren't the first one per say. Cheers on the video, loved it, brought back tons of memories!