My new SS Mark 7 gen 2 arrived and is standing proud in my workshop (where the second car used to be in the garage) so I thought I would add to your unboxing information in hopes that it helps others. First, there was a 5/32 inch T handle socket head wrench included in my shipment and the vertical support legs seemed to fit well with all of the screw holes pretty much lining up to accept their respective fasteners. I think that you pointing out these issues helped all of us. Thanks to my son, the support leg assembly and flipping it upright went very smooth. I used the bottom of the shipping container to insulate the Mark 7 from my garage floor as we bolted on the legs and then flipped it upright. I am still sorting parts and hanging things on the recently installed pegboard. Today, I started the Mark 7 motor for the first time and it was quiet and smooth....so smooth it was exciting.
Not being picky, at that price it should be perfect. As a suggestion, I would access the quill feed and quill feed lock setscrews, and make sure they're correct. On my machine, the quill feed setscrew was too tight, and the quill feed lock setscrew was not tightened down and vibrated loose. Enjoy your new machine.
I appreciate the review. I've owned several Shopsmiths, 4 and 5, over the years. The digital version was the next step in my ownership. Your review helped make me realize the importance of alignment so as I unbox and start my setup, I'll be sure to follow the step by step guide. I was a bit disappointed that you did not show your assembly. I'm sure it is long and likely to take a day or more. I have yet to find an assembly video for the Mark 7. I'm surprised in todays video age and UA-cam capabilities they have not produced one themselves. I do, however, like all the other Shopsmith produced as well as owners videos out there on various subjects. No one of us knows it all. Thanks again.
Thanks Mike, the assembly and alignment took 3 evenings. All the steps are in the first chapter of the manual, so I just followed those. I agree that the shopsmith content is great but could use some fresh material from them.
Tom, Did you get a raise!?!? Does your wife know about this!?!? I’m sure you will love it. I have converted an older machine to Powerpro and 520 table/fence system and I love it. I don’t have the double tilt like your machine, but not sure I’d use it. Keep up the great videos.
Hi James, three or four different factors line up financially at the end of 2021 for the Mark 7, including saving for a long time, unspent stimulus and so on. Been waiting for the right time for years! I am one of the few who like to route using the Shopsmith, I used my speed increaser all the time. So I will use the double tilt. If you don't need under table routing, then I can't think of a reason tilt the other way?
Congratulations Tom, I think you will throughly enjoy. I upgraded to a Mark 7 by buying the power head stock and tilt platform for both ends. I am super impressed with the quality of saw cut and the range of speeds.
Great walkthrough, Tom. I’m with you and would want SS to set those issues straight, and I suspect they will and would have even if you weren’t posting your experience on UA-cam. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Scott
Thanks Scott, I am 100% confident Shopsmith will help me with any issue. The machine has a great 90 day guarantee and limited lifetime warranty. And that's one of many reasons I was so comfortable spending the $$$$. I will email/call Shopsmith next week and I am sure they will send me a new fence pad ($7 part) for free and provide some details on the best way to remove the old one and install the new.
@@woodshopnerdery I have a bunch of video that I need to piece together of my 500 to 520 fence upgrade I splurged on over the holidays. From delivery through assembly. Just have not been able to get around to it.
@@bobharper7014 I think people would find that video helpful. I bet a lot of Shopsmith owners have money to spend on upgrades, they are just not sure IF they want to do it or not. I believe the videos help them make the choice.
@@woodshopnerdery I'd love to see your thoughts on the UI & operation of the Power Pro. Being an IT guy as your day job (like me), I figured you would have a unique perspective. Not that the PP is a touch screen, but I've shied away from digital interfaces and prefer analog controls. Maybe I'm just getting old. Also the tactile feedback from those membrane PP inputs seems not to be optimal. The LED display also could have better contrast in my opinion. These are my opinions & not based on any objective use. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks again!
Wow, congrats on your new machine Thomas! Very cool! 😎 I don't think you are being picky at all. It's nice to see a ShopSmith video that isn't completely negative.
Thanks Tim. It's a fine line between being forthrightness and gratuitous negativity. I actually re-recorded the "minor annoyances" section to be as constructive as possible.
Hi Tom, it's great to see one of these machines when they are new from the factory. Reference your problem with getting the legs installed, I used a couple of drift pins to get the legs installed on my 510 machines after painting. That made the difference, and it was easy to get the four legs and all the fasteners installed. I enjoy the videos you post get a lot out of them.
Tom that’s awesome! You’re gonna love your new big boy toy for sure. Hopefully those bumps at the starting line aren’t indicative of a road full of potholes. I was a manufacturing Quality Assurance Engineer and later Manager for over 35 years… if Shopsmith reads this I have a little advice for them: 1. Customer complaints are a gold mine. Having them at your disposal is your ticket to future riches. Mine them with every tool, talent and ounce of energy at your disposal. Failure to do so will surely result in abandoning the whole operation for lack of profit. 2. You can choose to just replace the defective parts and forget about it or… do an in-depth analysis. I suggest you take the complaint, immediately look at other parts and assemblies in stock and fix what you have before the next shipment. If you have none on hand, acquire the defective parts for analysis. 3. Perform a thorough Root Cause Analysis. Pareto and Cause/Effect are the minimum tools to use. Do not get derailed by trying to affix blame or minimize the defect up front. Follow the data. 4. Put in place permanent Error Cause Removal policies, procedures, training and upgrades. Do not fall prey to the traditional cop-out of just telling someone to “pay attention”! Remember… there are 6M’s (Material, Machine, Method, Measurement, Mother Nature and Man). The likelihood of fixing the problem by just talking to the Man is statistically only 16.7%… at best. Fix the Root Cause. 5. Use this golden nugget to improve your customer outreach system. If these problems are one-offs… make that customer more than just satisfied. If it is more common, then you have a systemic problem. Your entire quality detection, communication, service and correction system is defective. Perform this same error cause removal process on it. The popular name for that used to be Total Quality Management. It has evolved into the broader class of what is now referred to as a ‘System of Never sending Improvement’. Your customers are getting smarter and more critical every day. And, with the instantaneous communications they now have, their dissatisfaction travels fast. A failure on your part to have a responsive and agile Error Cause Removal System will only, and most assuredly, hasten your demise. Tom, I apologize for parking here on my high horse… but, I love American Made. I spent a career helping two iconic American companies recover from the malaise of their reliance on the skill of the ‘Craftsman Worker’. I hear others talk about the skill and ingenuity upon which Shopsmith was built. Failure to acknowledge that any business whose Quality System is so built; will be generational… will assure that their entire business will crumble upon that foundation. I truly want Shopsmith to around forever. It stands as an example of what you can do in America, despite the headwinds and undercurrents that have attacked them at every turn. Thanks Tom for your excellent and well presented first glance. I’ll be watching to see the next step into your trek for woodworking excellence.
Wise words Dave. I'm not sure if anyone from Shopsmith will read your message let alone watch the video. To my knowledge, a Shopsmith employee has never commented on one of my videos. Anyway, some fun vids coming up. In the last few months, I have intentionally built up a few "testing" videos for heat, vibration, motor bog, etc. for my old Mark V specifically so I can comparison test once I got the Mark 7.
Hello Tom, boy do I have Shopsmith envy right now! I was a little surprised by the lack of quality control on the rip fence. Not sure I would have been as calm as you after spending the better part of $5000 on a new tool. At a minimum you should contact Shopsmith and tell them of the issue, if not for your benefit but theirs; in case there is a bigger problem with the manufacturing and quality control processes. Happy woodworking with your new Mark 7!!!
Thanks Jude, yes I was calm on camera. I did contact Shopsmith and it appears it will all work out. I will have details on that in an upcoming video. But to summarize, so far they are standing behind their product.
Hals Wood Shop. Thanks for Sharing the experience. I think I am very jealous and may be rethinking getting the PowerPro, I'll wait to see more in your videos.. Nice to see what new is. I am on my second used 510 and I have upgrades. Well Done and Be Safe. I took 2 classes at SS when they had them making furniture pieces,2000 and 2002, Shaker Candle table and Mantle Clock.
Thanks so much Hal! I glad you liked the video. I waited over 7 years to make this purchase, I know that "jealous" feeling very well. I wish Shopsmith would put together some more classes, they were gone before I owned my 510.
Yes, still assembled in Dayton, Ohio. When I was in the factory I saw 20-30 machines in various stages of build progress and parts inventory to support about 100 more. They seemed to be constantly shipping units.
Oh Boy Tom, Wonderful video. No you are not being picky. It was nice to see a new machine unboxing. Thank you. Very disappointing on the documentation though. I did the do it yourself mode, now I have to go look at the documents on the routing portion. It may be the same with my docs. I had to learn alot on using this machine compared to my older unit. The speed control has the highest learning curve.
Thanks Tom for the vid. CONGRATULATIONS! I have upgraded my original 510 to the equivalent Mark 7 as the upgrades became available. Once you get the fence and miter gauge issues resolved I am sure you will be very happy. However given SS needs new customers the quality control issues need to be addressed it was disappointing given I have never had any issues until I ordered new drive couplings recently only to find they don’t turn true and cause vibration in my SPTs. I wonder if they have some supplier issues. Anyways happy ShopSmithing!
Thanks Bob. I'm sure I will be happy with it too. I too feel like Shopsmith could use an injection of energy in their QA/QC. But, I think it is unfair to compare to the "older Shopsmith" products. They have to compete in the reality of today. Compared to other modern manufacturing, they are still pretty good.
Awesome video. I appreciate the true unboxing of the machine. I dont think you are being picky at all. When you pay good money for something you want it to be near perfect when you get it. Quality checks should be done on all the things you pointed out. I know you will get it right. Would like to see how you get the gunk off the miter guage. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the compliments. I did clean the miter gauge, the coating would not come off with Denatured Alcohol, but did come off with Acetone quite easily.
Great review and you’re not being picky. For most of us, it’s a once in a lifetime purchase. For now I’ll just stick with my Mark V510. I’ve been tempted several times but I’ll have to hold pat. Although the head upgrade is still calling!
Hi Tom, very pleased for you on your purchase. I don’t think you were being to picky on your comments. The Shopsmith is an expensive machine, which is not to say it isn’t worth the cost, just that for the cost the machine should be pretty much defect free. I purchased the Power Pro headstock a little over a year ago and have been pleased. I hope you find the same for you purchase.
Hi Tom where are you located, I am up in Bellefontaine. I hope you like your new machine. The old ones are addictive, have five total. Like your videos and this one was very good. Comments on quality were spot on and constructive. I am sure Renee will work with you on quality issues. Have a good day
I would like to hear a comparison of the 510 and 520 fence and table systems once you have time to become familiar with your new machine. Thanks for the enjoyable videos!
Tom, I purchased my Shopsmith about 6 months after you and received it in Feb. 2023. I can tell you that I was not impressed with the quality of the Mark 7 Power Pro and I am still working through lots of issues that I had with the machine I do very much like its performance just not the initial quality issues. It did require lots of alignment adjustments that i never experienced with my 1981 machine purchased 'direct from Shopsmith. I had to re-tap the miter gage locking screw hole to keep it from binding on the T-slot. Remove high metal from the underside of the T-slot. Gray grinding powder was all over my table also. If you don't like the table extension leg T-joint castings you really won't like these third iteration, a stamp metal two piece one, extremely flimsy and cheap compared to the cast version. I will use my old 510 legs from my upgrade years ago which also have a 5/16" set screw to match the Shopsmith supplied wrench. I also needed to re-tap the router guard post clamp since it would not allow the thumb screw to thread. Had to re-tap the hole and finish drilling the clearance hole side. Also, the carriage bolts would not seat in the relief of the plastic slots of either plastic guard; it required filing the underside of the carriage bolts to get them to fit into the slots and slide freely. The upper saw guard is going back to Shopsmith for investigation and correction, it binds up. The table carriage lock was never torqued and shot across the room, costing me as hour to find the nut and washer in a storage rack. Just a lot of initial irritation and time I did not expect. Quality should not report to Engineering and Operations who are the same people at Shopsmith. Would never fly in an ISO certified 9001 business.
I am so disappointed to read this message , Pete. I had hoped that my machine was a “black swan” so to speak and that they had improved their quality process. But they still have problems. What a shame. Did you see my follow up Mark 7 video? Hoosier Step Stool Build: Testing the Shopsmith Mark 7 ua-cam.com/video/C1q3jN-HU7c/v-deo.html
I had a older Mark V once and have since moved on to bigger machine tools for wood working, I did like that there was a disk sander, bandsaw, planer jointer , table saw, drill press and lathe out of one machine, but moving the attachments around got old and my back is not what it used to be plus there were not that many accessories to enhance it to make it better.
My brother made similar comments, he quit making them when I asked how much he had in his boat, camper, hunting property, extra truck and 20 fishing weekends a year. Believe me, the Mark 7 is a steal! 🤑🤑🤑
Congratulations Tom. Thanks for the video. I hope you have many enjoyable hours of woodworking on your new Mark7. Is the factory tour worth the trip? Again congratulations.
Thanks Troy. I believe the factory tour did add something to this once in a lifetime experience of making this purchase and being a Shopsmith owner. My dad went with me on the tour and got to visit with my parents who live 5 minutes away from the factory. And I did save a few hundred $$ on shipping. So all in all, really glad I did the tour.
So happy for you Tom! I'm hoping everything will work out and you'll have many years enjoying you Mark7. Can't wait for your projects, do you plan on wood turning?
Thanks for the kind words. I sincerely hope everything can work out too. I would like to get into wood turning, maybe one day when I have some more free time.
Thanks, sorry to about the reliability problems. Seems like some people have constant problems while other have none. I will most likely keep my old headstock as a second power source and back up just in case.
It’s being picky when you pay for made in America quality but get Chinese blemishes. They would be sending me replacement parts not to mention the long allen key. Hopefully they have implemented some quality control since your video. Love your videos and Scott’s from MGR.
The product isn't perfect from the factory, but the folks at SS including Renee, Sue, and Jim have helped me work out everything as I upgraded a MV 500 to a M7. Welcome to the club! What does the future hold for your old Mark V?
I have looked everywhere for a list of all the items that come with a new Mark 7. There is nothing in the 2023 catalog, I did not find anything on the website and I called and spoke with a very poorly informed individual and I got no information. I am assuming that everything you opened in the box was part of the 2023 Mark 7 and is included in the almost $5k purchase price. Your video seems to be the best source of what comes with the new Mark 7. Thanks
Just watched your unboxing video. I don't think you were being picky at all. When you spend that much money on something you should expect, no demand, quality of workmanship. SS has a reputation of longevity and I find your observations are justified.
Thanks Dale for the support on the critical comments I made. I really don't like tearing anything or anybody down, but I felt it was an obligation to be honest with my observations.
Metal filings, misalignments, and oddball parts that don’t follow protocol… I would have stopped payment on my check, boxed that dog back up and dumped it at the door of their “factory”. I have an old 500 I purchased “almost new” and rarely use it. Individual tools are just plain easier to deal with and are far more accurate, and the “space saving” advantage is minimal at best because of the space needed to store all the parts and pieces and the workspace required around the machine.
I certainly could return it. It has a 90 day money back guarantee. I’ve looked through several manuals and books covering many brands of stationary tool. They all have sections covering alignment, presumably because they all need alignment.
Great videos Tom, remember back to your shop tour video and wondering what that does to your shop room. What your thoughts on your 510 plans? I have four unit’s myself. My first was a 82 Mark V500 upgrade to 520, a Mark 7, and two Mark VII. I bought a planer combo a 80 Mark V500 and gave the 80 Mark V to my stepbrother with all my 82 tables system and 500 stuff. Would like to add a 10ER to the mix. I put together a Power Pro Mark 7 by buying piece on eBay and market place (Facebook). I didn’t start out to do that. I first came across a bench with the double tilt $400. I was already buying 520 tables system pieces for the upgrade to 82 Mark V500. Then I happen to have the money when a Power Pro headstock be available. I later found the main table post for the Mark 7 so I got a Mark 7. I put together 3) 520 table system as of right now. Now I came across the same problem with my used 520 tables and legs. I often thought I should have bought a new one. Now I’m thinking it for just the cost. But if I had tried to by a new Mark 7 I still be waiting and trying to put the money together for it. I haven’t used it much yet. I’m trying to do a positive air flow in to the headstock like I seen on the Shopsmith Forum. I pick up the blower and yet I need to get the air filter. Then hook it up. Good luck with yours and welcome to the group of Power Pro Mark 7 owners.
Thanks Kirk, yes I do have a space issue to deal with. This is the main reason I did this in the spring so I have until winter time to sort it out. I'm not sure what I will do yet with the 510, but I hope to devise a system for storage that will allow me to keep it in some form or another. I'm with you on the second hand market. If a used Mark 7 or a PowerPro came up used in my area I would have preferred to buy used. Even on the used market the PowerPro headstock in not cheap, so for me that's the type of thing I need to see run in person before I hand over cash. I looked for those items in my local area for YEARS and saw nothing come up.
Thanks, yeah the music surprised me on power up. I didn't know it did that. I have to figure out what to do with the 510 before winter, but will definitely do some apples to apples comparisons.
Ok Tom, I'm curious... A new Mark 7 = $4,795.00 + tax Upgrade your 510 with a PowerPro = $2,419.00 + tax and double tilt = $529.00 + tax for a total of $2,948.00 + tax Or PowerPro self upgrade = $1,959 + tax and double tilt = $529.00 + tax for a total of $2,488 + tax So why didn't you save yourself the $1,847.00 + tax, or $2,307 + tax, that you paid extra to get the Mark 7? Unless you wanted the 520 table system? Also, any plans on converting your PowerPro to 220V, 2 h.p. in the future? Being I know you'll be doing routing and shaping with your new Mark 7. That extra 1/4 h.p. wouldn't hurt for those operations. p.s. I work 3 miles away from Shopsmith HQ, we could have done lunch while you were in town.
The math you bring up is one reason why it took me over 5 years to make this purchase. Believe me I sliced and diced every scenario including looking nearly every day for a used local Mark 7. Don't forget to apply the discounts you can get on a new Mark 7 by attending a Shopsmith Webinar, which are not applied to the upgrades as far as I know. Yes, I did want to experience the 520 table system. At one time I thought about keeping the 510 system as it is very good, but ultimately decided against it. So, add another $575 for the 520 upgrade which is rails and fence only, not new tables. So now you are only about $800 from a whole new system. But keep in mind, my machine is 30+ years old and not a museum piece. It was heavily used by the previous owners for 23 years and myself for 7+ years. So for $800 additional I get new tables, connector tubes, way and bench tubes, legs, table carriage, lathe tool rest, miter gauge, saw guards, router guards, safety kit, saw blade, various arbors, manual, book, etc. To me it was worth the $800 additional. No immediate plans for 200v, I would have to install a new circuit. That may happen one day.
Or attend a Webinar with Doug Reid or Mike Young and save $300 to $500 in price and get a free bandsaw. With everything brand new. Including the great 520 fence. Of course you get the benefit of no shipping.since you live so close.
@@anthonybriskie9608The webinar deal is a great suggestion for someone else looking to start out with new, or to upgrade. I have attended Doug Reid's and Mike Young's webinars in the past. I already own all of the SPT's, plus a 510 and two 500's, and I have a shop built router station with a Porter Cable 7518, 3 h.p. variable speed router motor. So I have no need for double tilt of the Mark 7, and the 520 fence and rail system doesn't turn me on. I still like the 510. If anything, I would upgrade one of my 500's to a PowerPro, for turning work mostly, someday.
So are you going to keep your 510? Maybe a shorty or dedicated drill press. I just set one up as a dedicated drill press with a overarm router. I’m loving it in this configuration.
@@woodshopnerdery when you order your M7 did you add things too the basic M7. So did it come with all the stuff that you took out of the box? Or did you order other things with your M7 and was shipped in the box.
@@woodshopnerdery sorry I’m dyslexia so when I’m hurrying I end up switching words and numbers around. I mind works faster the I can type. So mess up at times.
@@kirkschweighofer2966 Everything shown in the video came with the Mark 7 except the casters. I did pull those off my old Mark V. This link shows what comes with the base Mark 7. Actually, its a lot. www.shopsmith.com/mark7site/standardaccess.htm
Cole, sorry to hear you had trouble with you Shopsmith. Certainly it a unique machine and not everyone will have a positive experience. So far my Shopsmith has been mostly positive and definitely more positive other tool brands I have purchased.
My new SS Mark 7 gen 2 arrived and is standing proud in my workshop (where the second car used to be in the garage) so I thought I would add to your unboxing information in hopes that it helps others. First, there was a 5/32 inch T handle socket head wrench included in my shipment and the vertical support legs seemed to fit well with all of the screw holes pretty much lining up to accept their respective fasteners. I think that you pointing out these issues helped all of us. Thanks to my son, the support leg assembly and flipping it upright went very smooth. I used the bottom of the shipping container to insulate the Mark 7 from my garage floor as we bolted on the legs and then flipped it upright. I am still sorting parts and hanging things on the recently installed pegboard. Today, I started the Mark 7 motor for the first time and it was quiet and smooth....so smooth it was exciting.
Congrats! I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine.
My Shopsmith is now long gone but I still remember my excitement when I picked it up back in 1979.
It's a box full of possibilities for sure!
Not being picky, at that price it should be perfect.
As a suggestion, I would access the quill feed and quill feed lock setscrews, and make sure they're correct. On my machine, the quill feed setscrew was too tight, and the quill feed lock setscrew was not tightened down and vibrated loose.
Enjoy your new machine.
Thanks Terry, great advice. I will look out for those issues.
I appreciate the review. I've owned several Shopsmiths, 4 and 5, over the years. The digital version was the next step in my ownership. Your review helped make me realize the importance of alignment so as I unbox and start my setup, I'll be sure to follow the step by step guide. I was a bit disappointed that you did not show your assembly. I'm sure it is long and likely to take a day or more. I have yet to find an assembly video for the Mark 7. I'm surprised in todays video age and UA-cam capabilities they have not produced one themselves. I do, however, like all the other Shopsmith produced as well as owners videos out there on various subjects. No one of us knows it all. Thanks again.
Thanks Mike, the assembly and alignment took 3 evenings. All the steps are in the first chapter of the manual, so I just followed those. I agree that the shopsmith content is great but could use some fresh material from them.
Tom,
Did you get a raise!?!? Does your wife know about this!?!? I’m sure you will love it. I have converted an older machine to Powerpro and 520 table/fence system and I love it. I don’t have the double tilt like your machine, but not sure I’d use it. Keep up the great videos.
Hi James, three or four different factors line up financially at the end of 2021 for the Mark 7, including saving for a long time, unspent stimulus and so on. Been waiting for the right time for years! I am one of the few who like to route using the Shopsmith, I used my speed increaser all the time. So I will use the double tilt. If you don't need under table routing, then I can't think of a reason tilt the other way?
Separate router table.
Congratulations Tom, I think you will throughly enjoy. I upgraded to a Mark 7 by buying the power head stock and tilt platform for both ends. I am super impressed with the quality of saw cut and the range of speeds.
Thanks Ellis. I surely hope to enjoy it. Positive feedback from owners like you made me comfortable making the purchase.
Great walkthrough, Tom. I’m with you and would want SS to set those issues straight, and I suspect they will and would have even if you weren’t posting your experience on UA-cam. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Scott
Thanks Scott, I am 100% confident Shopsmith will help me with any issue. The machine has a great 90 day guarantee and limited lifetime warranty. And that's one of many reasons I was so comfortable spending the $$$$.
I will email/call Shopsmith next week and I am sure they will send me a new fence pad ($7 part) for free and provide some details on the best way to remove the old one and install the new.
I’d bet they will send you the whole fence head if you mention the casting flaws as well.
Tom. Thanks for sharing. Can't wait to watch it in full. Love unboxing videos!
Thanks Bob! I was happy to do the unboxing video, after all I'll only have one chance to document this once in a lifetime experience.
@@woodshopnerdery I have a bunch of video that I need to piece together of my 500 to 520 fence upgrade I splurged on over the holidays. From delivery through assembly. Just have not been able to get around to it.
@@bobharper7014 I think people would find that video helpful. I bet a lot of Shopsmith owners have money to spend on upgrades, they are just not sure IF they want to do it or not. I believe the videos help them make the choice.
@@woodshopnerdery I'd love to see your thoughts on the UI & operation of the Power Pro.
Being an IT guy as your day job (like me), I figured you would have a unique perspective. Not that the PP is a touch screen, but I've shied away from digital interfaces and prefer analog controls. Maybe I'm just getting old. Also the tactile feedback from those membrane PP inputs seems not to be optimal. The LED display also could have better contrast in my opinion. These are my opinions & not based on any objective use. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks again!
Wow, congrats on your new machine Thomas! Very cool! 😎
I don't think you are being picky at all.
It's nice to see a ShopSmith video that isn't completely negative.
Thanks Tim. It's a fine line between being forthrightness and gratuitous negativity. I actually re-recorded the "minor annoyances" section to be as constructive as possible.
Hi Tom, it's great to see one of these machines when they are new from the factory. Reference your problem with getting the legs installed, I used a couple of drift pins to get the legs installed on my 510 machines after painting. That made the difference, and it was easy to get the four legs and all the fasteners installed. I enjoy the videos you post get a lot out of them.
Great! Thanks for the compliments. Great suggestion on the drift pins, I wish I knew to pick a couple up last week!
Congrats on the new machine! dialing in the with the touch of a button looks awesome! Can't wait to hear your experiences with it over time.
Thanks Grant. It’s a big change. Took me a long time to decide on it partly because the old one is so good.
@@woodshopnerdery if I ever need to downgrade the amount of space i have as a workshop the mark 7 would be on the list of things to buy!
Tom that’s awesome! You’re gonna love your new big boy toy for sure.
Hopefully those bumps at the starting line aren’t indicative of a road full of potholes. I was a manufacturing Quality Assurance Engineer and later Manager for over 35 years… if Shopsmith reads this I have a little advice for them:
1. Customer complaints are a gold mine. Having them at your disposal is your ticket to future riches. Mine them with every tool, talent and ounce of energy at your disposal. Failure to do so will surely result in abandoning the whole operation for lack of profit.
2. You can choose to just replace the defective parts and forget about it or… do an in-depth analysis. I suggest you take the complaint, immediately look at other parts and assemblies in stock and fix what you have before the next shipment. If you have none on hand, acquire the defective parts for analysis.
3. Perform a thorough Root Cause Analysis. Pareto and Cause/Effect are the minimum tools to use. Do not get derailed by trying to affix blame or minimize the defect up front. Follow the data.
4. Put in place permanent Error Cause Removal policies, procedures, training and upgrades. Do not fall prey to the traditional cop-out of just telling someone to “pay attention”! Remember… there are 6M’s (Material, Machine, Method, Measurement, Mother Nature and Man). The likelihood of fixing the problem by just talking to the Man is statistically only 16.7%… at best. Fix the Root Cause.
5. Use this golden nugget to improve your customer outreach system. If these problems are one-offs… make that customer more than just satisfied. If it is more common, then you have a systemic problem. Your entire quality detection, communication, service and correction system is defective. Perform this same error cause removal process on it. The popular name for that used to be Total Quality Management. It has evolved into the broader class of what is now referred to as a ‘System of Never sending Improvement’. Your customers are getting smarter and more critical every day. And, with the instantaneous communications they now have, their dissatisfaction travels fast. A failure on your part to have a responsive and agile Error Cause Removal System will only, and most assuredly, hasten your demise.
Tom, I apologize for parking here on my high horse… but, I love American Made. I spent a career helping two iconic American companies recover from the malaise of their reliance on the skill of the ‘Craftsman Worker’. I hear others talk about the skill and ingenuity upon which Shopsmith was built. Failure to acknowledge that any business whose Quality System is so built; will be generational… will assure that their entire business will crumble upon that foundation.
I truly want Shopsmith to around forever. It stands as an example of what you can do in America, despite the headwinds and undercurrents that have attacked them at every turn.
Thanks Tom for your excellent and well presented first glance. I’ll be watching to see the next step into your trek for woodworking excellence.
Wise words Dave. I'm not sure if anyone from Shopsmith will read your message let alone watch the video. To my knowledge, a Shopsmith employee has never commented on one of my videos.
Anyway, some fun vids coming up. In the last few months, I have intentionally built up a few "testing" videos for heat, vibration, motor bog, etc. for my old Mark V specifically so I can comparison test once I got the Mark 7.
Most excellent … I love mine … after 2 trips to adjust properly. …
Thanks John. Adjustment is key. I got it home Monday and spent Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday doing the alignment steps.
Hello Tom, boy do I have Shopsmith envy right now! I was a little surprised by the lack of quality control on the rip fence. Not sure I would have been as calm as you after spending the better part of $5000 on a new tool. At a minimum you should contact Shopsmith and tell them of the issue, if not for your benefit but theirs; in case there is a bigger problem with the manufacturing and quality control processes. Happy woodworking with your new Mark 7!!!
Thanks Jude, yes I was calm on camera. I did contact Shopsmith and it appears it will all work out. I will have details on that in an upcoming video. But to summarize, so far they are standing behind their product.
@@woodshopnerdery Great news!
I turn bowls and love the low speeds and reverse!
So true, I have a whole new world of features to explore and hopefully years of good health to do so.
@@woodshopnerdery Tom, what direction do you live from Dayton? I’m over toward Indy.
@@johnoerter2883 I'm in the Chicago region.
@@woodshopnerdery I’m in Lafayette and get up to Chicago occasionally. I’d love to meet sometime.
Hals Wood Shop. Thanks for Sharing the experience. I think I am very jealous and may be rethinking getting the PowerPro, I'll wait to see more in your videos.. Nice to see what new is. I am on my second used 510 and I have upgrades. Well Done and Be Safe. I took 2 classes at SS when they had them making furniture pieces,2000 and 2002, Shaker Candle table and Mantle Clock.
Thanks so much Hal! I glad you liked the video. I waited over 7 years to make this purchase, I know that "jealous" feeling very well. I wish Shopsmith would put together some more classes, they were gone before I owned my 510.
I didn't know they were still making shopsmiths
Yes, still assembled in Dayton, Ohio. When I was in the factory I saw 20-30 machines in various stages of build progress and parts inventory to support about 100 more. They seemed to be constantly shipping units.
Oh Boy Tom,
Wonderful video. No you are not being picky. It was nice to see a new machine unboxing. Thank you. Very disappointing on the documentation though. I did the do it yourself mode, now I have to go look at the documents on the routing portion. It may be the same with my docs. I had to learn alot on using this machine compared to my older unit. The speed control has the highest learning curve.
Thanks Jim. I'm glad folks are seeing value in the unboxing. A lot of use are starting with a used machine and never experienced a new one.
Thanks Tom for the vid. CONGRATULATIONS! I have upgraded my original 510 to the equivalent Mark 7 as the upgrades became available. Once you get the fence and miter gauge issues resolved I am sure you will be very happy. However given SS needs new customers the quality control issues need to be addressed it was disappointing given I have never had any issues until I ordered new drive couplings recently only to find they don’t turn true and cause vibration in my SPTs. I wonder if they have some supplier issues. Anyways happy ShopSmithing!
Thanks Bob. I'm sure I will be happy with it too. I too feel like Shopsmith could use an injection of energy in their QA/QC. But, I think it is unfair to compare to the "older Shopsmith" products. They have to compete in the reality of today. Compared to other modern manufacturing, they are still pretty good.
Awesome video. I appreciate the true unboxing of the machine. I dont think you are being picky at all. When you pay good money for something you want it to be near perfect when you get it. Quality checks should be done on all the things you pointed out. I know you will get it right. Would like to see how you get the gunk off the miter guage. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the compliments. I did clean the miter gauge, the coating would not come off with Denatured Alcohol, but did come off with Acetone quite easily.
@@woodshopnerdery nice. Thank goodness it was that easy.
Great review and you’re not being picky. For most of us, it’s a once in a lifetime purchase. For now I’ll just stick with my Mark V510. I’ve been tempted several times but I’ll have to hold pat. Although the head upgrade is still calling!
The 510 is a great machine, it took me a long time to decide to due the upgrade because my old one is so good.
Hi Tom, very pleased for you on your purchase. I don’t think you were being to picky on your comments. The Shopsmith is an expensive machine, which is not to say it isn’t worth the cost, just that for the cost the machine should be pretty much defect free. I purchased the Power Pro headstock a little over a year ago and have been pleased. I hope you find the same for you purchase.
Thanks James, I will enjoy it for years to come. Glad your PowerPro is working out.
I really enjoy the power pro headstock. It is alot quieter
Nice! I'm getting lots and lots of positive comments about the PowerPro.
Renee was also GREAT! … as was Sue with the alignment issues.
Hi Tom where are you located, I am up in Bellefontaine. I hope you like your new machine. The old ones are addictive, have five total. Like your videos and this one was very good. Comments on quality were spot on and constructive. I am sure Renee will work with you on quality issues. Have a good day
Thanks Robert, I am 100% certain Shopsmith will help me work out any issues. There's a pretty good warrant and guarantee on these machines too.
I would like to hear a comparison of the 510 and 520 fence and table systems once you have time to become familiar with your new machine.
Thanks for the enjoyable videos!
Thanks Steve, glad you like the videos. I too am looking forward to doing a comparison and many things, including the tables. Coming soon.
Tom, I purchased my Shopsmith about 6 months after you and received it in Feb. 2023. I can tell you that I was not impressed with the quality of the Mark 7 Power Pro and I am still working through lots of issues that I had with the machine I do very much like its performance just not the initial quality issues. It did require lots of alignment adjustments that i never experienced with my 1981 machine purchased 'direct from Shopsmith. I had to re-tap the miter gage locking screw hole to keep it from binding on the T-slot. Remove high metal from the underside of the T-slot. Gray grinding powder was all over my table also. If you don't like the table extension leg T-joint castings you really won't like these third iteration, a stamp metal two piece one, extremely flimsy and cheap compared to the cast version. I will use my old 510 legs from my upgrade years ago which also have a 5/16" set screw to match the Shopsmith supplied wrench. I also needed to re-tap the router guard post clamp since it would not allow the thumb screw to thread. Had to re-tap the hole and finish drilling the clearance hole side. Also, the carriage bolts would not seat in the relief of the plastic slots of either plastic guard; it required filing the underside of the carriage bolts to get them to fit into the slots and slide freely. The upper saw guard is going back to Shopsmith for investigation and correction, it binds up. The table carriage lock was never torqued and shot across the room, costing me as hour to find the nut and washer in a storage rack. Just a lot of initial irritation and time I did not expect. Quality should not report to Engineering and Operations who are the same people at Shopsmith. Would never fly in an ISO certified 9001 business.
I am so disappointed to read this message , Pete. I had hoped that my machine was a “black swan” so to speak and that they had improved their quality process. But they still have problems. What a shame.
Did you see my follow up Mark 7 video? Hoosier Step Stool Build: Testing the Shopsmith Mark 7
ua-cam.com/video/C1q3jN-HU7c/v-deo.html
I had a older Mark V once and have since moved on to bigger machine tools for wood working, I did like that there was a disk sander, bandsaw, planer jointer , table saw, drill press and lathe out of one machine, but moving the attachments around got old and my back is not what it used to be plus there were not that many accessories to enhance it to make it better.
Great points. If I had room for dedicated equipment I might have explored different options.
A brand new Mark 7?! Whoa ho! Hey now, big spender.
My brother made similar comments, he quit making them when I asked how much he had in his boat, camper, hunting property, extra truck and 20 fishing weekends a year. Believe me, the Mark 7 is a steal! 🤑🤑🤑
Congratulations Tom. Thanks for the video. I hope you have many enjoyable hours of woodworking on your new Mark7. Is the factory tour worth the trip? Again congratulations.
Thanks Troy. I believe the factory tour did add something to this once in a lifetime experience of making this purchase and being a Shopsmith owner. My dad went with me on the tour and got to visit with my parents who live 5 minutes away from the factory. And I did save a few hundred $$ on shipping. So all in all, really glad I did the tour.
So happy for you Tom! I'm hoping everything will work out and you'll have many years enjoying you Mark7. Can't wait for your projects, do you plan on wood turning?
Thanks for the kind words. I sincerely hope everything can work out too. I would like to get into wood turning, maybe one day when I have some more free time.
Good lock, I hope you have better luck with headstock reliability than I am...
Thanks, sorry to about the reliability problems. Seems like some people have constant problems while other have none. I will most likely keep my old headstock as a second power source and back up just in case.
@@woodshopnerdery Thanks, I have a backup headstock also.
Good review
Thanks Brad, glad you enjoyed it.
It’s being picky when you pay for made in America quality but get Chinese blemishes. They would be sending me replacement parts not to mention the long allen key. Hopefully they have implemented some quality control since your video. Love your videos and Scott’s from MGR.
The product isn't perfect from the factory, but the folks at SS including Renee, Sue, and Jim have helped me work out everything as I upgraded a MV 500 to a M7. Welcome to the club!
What does the future hold for your old Mark V?
Agreed. I’m 100% confident it will be sorted shortly.
I have looked everywhere for a list of all the items that come with a new Mark 7. There is nothing in the 2023 catalog, I did not find anything on the website and I called and spoke with a very poorly informed individual and I got no information. I am assuming that everything you opened in the box was part of the 2023 Mark 7 and is included in the almost $5k purchase price. Your video seems to be the best source of what comes with the new Mark 7. Thanks
Thanks to Mike Young, I did find the list of included accessories and it was on the website in plain sight .....kinda.
Just watched your unboxing video.
I don't think you were being picky at all. When you spend that much money on something you should expect, no demand, quality of workmanship. SS has a reputation of longevity and I find your observations are justified.
Thanks Dale for the support on the critical comments I made. I really don't like tearing anything or anybody down, but I felt it was an obligation to be honest with my observations.
Metal filings, misalignments, and oddball parts that don’t follow protocol… I would have stopped payment on my check, boxed that dog back up and dumped it at the door of their “factory”. I have an old 500 I purchased “almost new” and rarely use it. Individual tools are just plain easier to deal with and are far more accurate, and the “space saving” advantage is minimal at best because of the space needed to store
all the parts and pieces and the workspace required around the machine.
I certainly could return it. It has a 90 day money back guarantee. I’ve looked through several manuals and books covering many brands of stationary tool. They all have sections covering alignment, presumably because they all need alignment.
Great videos Tom, remember back to your shop tour video and wondering what that does to your shop room. What your thoughts on your 510 plans?
I have four unit’s myself. My first was a 82 Mark V500 upgrade to 520, a Mark 7, and two Mark VII. I bought a planer combo a 80 Mark V500 and gave the 80 Mark V to my stepbrother with all my 82 tables system and 500 stuff. Would like to add a 10ER to the mix.
I put together a Power Pro Mark 7 by buying piece on eBay and market place (Facebook). I didn’t start out to do that. I first came across a bench with the double tilt $400. I was already buying 520 tables system pieces for the upgrade to 82 Mark V500. Then I happen to have the money when a Power Pro headstock be available. I later found the main table post for the Mark 7 so I got a Mark 7. I put together 3) 520 table system as of right now.
Now I came across the same problem with my used 520 tables and legs. I often thought I should have bought a new one. Now I’m thinking it for just the cost. But if I had tried to by a new Mark 7 I still be waiting and trying to put the money together for it.
I haven’t used it much yet. I’m trying to do a positive air flow in to the headstock like I seen on the Shopsmith Forum. I pick up the blower and yet I need to get the air filter. Then hook it up.
Good luck with yours and welcome to the group of Power Pro Mark 7 owners.
Thanks Kirk, yes I do have a space issue to deal with. This is the main reason I did this in the spring so I have until winter time to sort it out. I'm not sure what I will do yet with the 510, but I hope to devise a system for storage that will allow me to keep it in some form or another.
I'm with you on the second hand market. If a used Mark 7 or a PowerPro came up used in my area I would have preferred to buy used. Even on the used market the PowerPro headstock in not cheap, so for me that's the type of thing I need to see run in person before I hand over cash. I looked for those items in my local area for YEARS and saw nothing come up.
Congrats on the Upgrade, I giggled a little when the power pro was turned on. Will you old one be used for comparisons, parts, or will you sell it?
Thanks, yeah the music surprised me on power up. I didn't know it did that. I have to figure out what to do with the 510 before winter, but will definitely do some apples to apples comparisons.
Ok Tom, I'm curious...
A new Mark 7 = $4,795.00 + tax
Upgrade your 510 with a PowerPro = $2,419.00 + tax
and double tilt = $529.00 + tax
for a total of $2,948.00 + tax
Or
PowerPro self upgrade = $1,959 + tax
and double tilt = $529.00 + tax
for a total of $2,488 + tax
So why didn't you save yourself the
$1,847.00 + tax,
or
$2,307 + tax,
that you paid extra to get the Mark 7?
Unless you wanted the 520 table system?
Also, any plans on converting your PowerPro to 220V, 2 h.p. in the future?
Being I know you'll be doing routing and shaping with your new Mark 7. That extra 1/4 h.p. wouldn't hurt for those operations.
p.s. I work 3 miles away from Shopsmith HQ, we could have done lunch while you were in town.
The math you bring up is one reason why it took me over 5 years to make this purchase. Believe me I sliced and diced every scenario including looking nearly every day for a used local Mark 7.
Don't forget to apply the discounts you can get on a new Mark 7 by attending a Shopsmith Webinar, which are not applied to the upgrades as far as I know. Yes, I did want to experience the 520 table system. At one time I thought about keeping the 510 system as it is very good, but ultimately decided against it. So, add another $575 for the 520 upgrade which is rails and fence only, not new tables. So now you are only about $800 from a whole new system.
But keep in mind, my machine is 30+ years old and not a museum piece. It was heavily used by the previous owners for 23 years and myself for 7+ years. So for $800 additional I get new tables, connector tubes, way and bench tubes, legs, table carriage, lathe tool rest, miter gauge, saw guards, router guards, safety kit, saw blade, various arbors, manual, book, etc. To me it was worth the $800 additional.
No immediate plans for 200v, I would have to install a new circuit. That may happen one day.
Or attend a Webinar with Doug Reid or Mike Young and save $300 to $500 in price and get a free bandsaw. With everything brand new. Including the great 520 fence. Of course you get the benefit of no shipping.since you live so close.
@@anthonybriskie9608The webinar deal is a great suggestion for someone else looking to start out with new, or to upgrade.
I have attended Doug Reid's and Mike Young's webinars in the past. I already own all of the SPT's, plus a 510 and two 500's, and I have a shop built router station with a Porter Cable 7518, 3 h.p. variable speed router motor. So I have no need for double tilt of the Mark 7, and the 520 fence and rail system doesn't turn me on. I still like the 510. If anything, I would upgrade one of my 500's to a PowerPro, for turning work mostly, someday.
Please check my Community tab for answers to common questions and the latest information! - ua-cam.com/users/woodshopnerderycommunity
So are you going to keep your 510? Maybe a shorty or dedicated drill press. I just set one up as a dedicated drill press with a overarm router. I’m loving it in this configuration.
My inclination is to find a way to keep the 510 in some form. My main challenge is for space.
Oh I forgot to ask . Did you just order a basic or did you have add one?
Sorry Kirk, I don't understand the question. Could auto-correct be at play here?
@@woodshopnerdery when you order your M7 did you add things too the basic M7. So did it come with all the stuff that you took out of the box? Or did you order other things with your M7 and was shipped in the box.
@@woodshopnerdery sorry I’m dyslexia so when I’m hurrying I end up switching words and numbers around. I mind works faster the I can type.
So mess up at times.
@@kirkschweighofer2966 Everything shown in the video came with the Mark 7 except the casters. I did pull those off my old Mark V.
This link shows what comes with the base Mark 7. Actually, its a lot. www.shopsmith.com/mark7site/standardaccess.htm
That's a lot of money to spend to have to deal with those defects and lack of alignment.
Thanks Ana. Defiantly a bit frustrating. But I believe every table saw on the market probably needs a bit of alignment.
You luckie duck!
Exciting times for sure!
Should have never bought one in the first place
Cole, sorry to hear you had trouble with you Shopsmith. Certainly it a unique machine and not everyone will have a positive experience. So far my Shopsmith has been mostly positive and definitely more positive other tool brands I have purchased.