To answer David's point about Jaws and Dolly floating off into space, there is a brief line at NASA where they say an object has touched down in the ocean containing a small woman and a very tall man.
Did you have the Moonraker cap gun and Corgi space shuttle? (I was always disappointed it contained some satellite rather than mini space marine figures?)
Very very true. To this day I regret never seeing this on the big screen (For Your Eyes Only was my first in that regard). That must have been a treat!
A modern moonraker remake/reboot with the next bond would be epic. The villain would be an Elon Musk gone rogue character (like in the book) and Bond has to stop a global plot to take the world by hostage with a space weapon. No crazy space travel or lasers. But something based on reality and the renewed interest in space exploration.
YES! That's what I've been saying since the last time I saw Moonraker. There's some potential there for a decent film if you give it a more serious spin and upgrade it for today's era, especially as we pretty much have a real life version of Drax these days. I'm actually okay with Bond going to space, though. I just hate that he gets to call in the space cavalry. That's literally the one thing he shouldn't be able to do. Having him and his CIA counterpart up there on there own, with no means of communication and relying on their own wits, that's actually a quite intriguing concept.
@@simonbrunner3062 No I think it needs to do the exact opposite. It needs to be a self aware love letter to 1960's UK. It can have all the fun gadgets and things but it's self aware so the audience is in on the joke.
@@errolmargiela1261 Just to clarify, when I said "more serious", I meant compared to the original Moonraker, not compared to the recent Craig films. I fully agree that we should have more fun watching these movies than the last ones offered. But in 1979's Moonraker the camp reaches ridiculous levels. Actually, it goes beyond that. What comes after ridiculous? Ludicrous? You can't do that today anymore. It wouldn't be distinguishable from a full-on genre parody like Austin Powers or Johnny English.
Such a debate and collab as this deserved a full title sequence! :D Also, any excuse for me to have a play around editing some clips together from Moonraker! :D
@@Thatguy55595 oh sorry, you're probably one of those guys whose favourite Bond movie is Octopussy 🤣 even if you aren't a huge fan of some of the Craig films, you can't deny Casino Royale is easily among the best
My favorite Bond movie. Man, I've loved this one ever since I was a kid. I know it's bonkers, but man, it's just so much fun. And Sir Roger Moore is just perfect in it.
I feel like Moore had a Really life or Death Situation. When he was going around in circles in that Space Training. You notice if didn't have that gadget he would have died. You see it in his eyes when leaving the machine
Love Moonraker! It's a re-hash of The Spy who loves me but it has sci-fi (I was 5 during the Star Wars phenomenon) and is very entertaining. Very tongue in cheek with the double take pigeon but I love it! Sky diving scene at the beginning is one of the best pre-title sequences in the series.
That one time where Drax outsmarts Bond by somehow replacing the lab. I feel like a harsher Bond would have just pulled out the neurotoxin sample (Or a false vial he had a different glass shop make offscreen) to make Drax panic as proof he was up to no good.
That would have been mint but the short scene of him giving the vial to M after they made an arse of themselves showed that M shouldn't have doubted Bond. The line about 2 weeks leave gives Bond unofficial permission to keep investigating Drax, similar to when M (Hargreaves) tells Moneypenny that Bond is going after Sanchez in Licence to Kill.
@@andrewnicholson4278 That's true. M being willing to bend the rules for Bond by letting Moneypenny send Q was pretty cool. But yeah, Dalton bond would have absolutely pulled out the Vial and called it right there.
Enjoying this debate. I really like Moonraker, and I'd defend the investigation piece of go here find this, then progress to the next level. Esp the fantastic Michael Lonsdale. Best bad guy put down to Bond re British cucumber sandwiches.
Really enjoyed revisiting Moonraker again when I saw it at the BFI last year. Also saw the film back in 2009 followed by a Q and A with Richard Kiel afterwards at the same venue. Very fortunate to have a photo signed by the great man as well.
For some reason I've always found the use of the Space Shuttle more grounded in reality than the Thunderbirds rockets used in YOLT. That with Corrinne getting eaten by the dogs, Moonraker has more grounded moments than most people remember. They also made the good move of leaving space to the third act, if it had been the entire movie it wouldnt have worked,the two thirds of conventional globe trotting Bond adventure warms the audience up for the epic outer space finale.
Not really - the hijacking scene was ridiculous. How can the main engines fire with no external tank fueling them? Even if they were housed in the cargo bay, on the launch pad the liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen propellants can only be kept in liquid form for a few hours before they heat up and turn back into a gas. And that's with all the fancy air-cons the launch facility has!
@@WhiteJarrah I also wonder how you use the top of a 747 as a runway. Plus if you can at all release the holding mechanism from inside the shuttle, it should immediately fall off the moving 747.
Moonraker do have two of the more creepy and scary sequences in the series, Corinne being hunted by Drax's dogs and Jaws approaching Manuela down an alley way.
Calvin, I love Moonraker. I watched so many times and the time flew by. Terrific special effects. A travelogue of cinema. Beautiful women, beautiful cinematography!
I love when Drax calls up the "henchman hotline" to replace Chang. It's like the scene in TWINE in which Dr. Arkov grouses to Renard about how the parahawks (used for the ski chase) were "rented and meant to be returned".
After Chang tries to kill him, James goes back to Holly’s hotel room. And without even half trying, he finds the deadly diary with the dart, the poison pen that’s a syringe, the purse that’s a radio transmitter, and the perfume that’s just a tad bit overpowering - actually a flamethrower! James says, Standard CIA equipment. Holly gets this friendly/slightly embarrassed look on her face which is just great! 😊 And then later, she beats up two guards on the space station, and James just helps a little. He asks, CIA? She says, No, Vassar. And then at the very end, Holly says, James this is our last chance. And it really is - and James comes through. Meaning, we amateurs judge a movie by how good the very best parts are. We can put up with quite a lot if these deliver the goods. And I’m not sure pro reviewers fully get this point. In any case, great conversation with David. Please keep doing this! 🌈 🚴🏽♂️ 🏡
When has a James Bond film ever been "realistic"? Moonraker is a bloody good time, unlike some of the more serious entries. And I'd say having fun is just as valid an idea as not having it. Live and let Moonraker.
Moon raker has a special place in my heart as it was the first Bond I ever saw in the cinema. I was with my best friend, and as a child I embraced the spectacle. As an adult? It’s not science fact, but Bond has always been larger than life.
I'm surprised you didn't cover the opening scene to Moonraker! It might be cliche today, but Bond falling out of an airplane without a parachute made for some great action. Sans the end when Jaws lived by randomly being caught by a circus net, it was great! Mostly all practical stuntwork too
This type of debate is similar to the Batman franchise, which has similar histories. The spectrum of the debate is on one side realism and the other side hammy. Moonraker would be like "Batman and Robin", Casino Royale with "Batman Begins" and so forth. Moonraker tends to be the litmus test on what side of the spectrum the fan is located. That fascinates me.
I can't think of many people who would defend "Batman & Robin" except as "enjoyably bad". Whereas "Moonraker" is a film that it's fans genuinely think is good- not perfect, but still good.
It's great to see David actually make the Thunderball comparisons as I've found the similarities quite striking even being down to the 4th films for Connery and Moore. Great discussion and I'd actually take Calvin's approach but toward A View to a Kill. I LOVE that film while there are MANY indefensible aspects of the movie, I just absolutely adore the absurdity behind it all!
It, "Spy", and YOLT are all pretty silly spectacles. Tragically, films of such scale likely will never be made due to expensive costs and less profits due to the decline of traditional theaters (which predate COVID19) .
Hugo Drax had nice homes, multiple beautiful girlfriends, expensive collections, and could tell jokes. Stromberg was an old guy who liked to look at fish.
@Grant Kerr So what where Countess Lubinsky, Lady Victoria Devon, Mademoiselle Delader, and La Senorita Delmatio all doing hanging around Drax? Where they doing an Auric Goldfinger and were there to be "just seen?"
What always gets me is that Stomberg didn't seem to have any female employees? How was he going to populate his underwater city? At least Drax has his breeding couples.
I must admit I think Moonraker is an underrated gem of a Bond film. The bit that always sticks with me is John Barry's score when they're trying desperately to destroy the three orbs whilst the shuttle is skimming across the atmosphere. It's such a great moment of tension... absolutely love it!!
For anyone who wants do some further reading on the concept, 30:30 The trope David is describing here is "Out of Character Is Serious Business." It can be VERY effective plot point if used right.
One of my favorite pieces of product placement ever was when, in his Recapping video, DBF inserted himself into the British Airways billboard. "Dutchbondfan The channel tailored for Bond fans!" Brilliant
Aside from the sheer pleasure of watching/listening to 2 Bond fanatics debate and discuss, I love the subtle interplay between a slightly more seasoned David & a more youthful, often laughing Calvin. It makes me think of an admired uncle who is fond of his nephew who is just as bright, shares a passion in filmdom, & with whom he can show off his gadgets to impress. Quite lovely.
Most of Moore's dialogue was one liners - 'I like it already', 'play it again Sam', 'not want I want to get stuck with tonight'. Or even less - 'bang on time', 'a woman', 'balls Q?'.
Great debate! I really enjoy Moonraker, it's just a highly entertaining piece of fantasy and escapism. I'll agree there a few moments where the humour goes overboard but those are not the main things I take away from watching it. As for the whole going into space thing, I think for the time it was fine. I don't think they would get away with it today and yet the space sequences are the highlight for me.
I thought it was Moores worst performance as Bond. All routine and no passion. Dr Goodhead is one of the stiffest Bond girls as Chiles can’t act. The cheesy slapstick humor verges on parody. The dialogue is so dull and the movie is all over the place. Also trying to pass off Drax’s house as being in SoCal is hilarious, and by the time the anti-climatic ending comes along with him shooting the probes I’m just bored to death. Q almost single handily saves this movie tho with his re-entry line at the end lol.
I thought that they would have mentioned how both Moonraker and SWLM killed the same actor’s character. A submarine officer in SWLM and the copilot of the plane that crashed in the beginning of Moonraker. I might have questioned why Bond and the helicopter pilot were staying at Drax’s mansion. If Drax had simply reserved a hotel room for Bond, then Bond never would have gotten into the study and found out he had to go to Venice.
The conversations you two have had about Quantum of Solace and Moonraker have been fantastic. Very fun, pretty substantive and in good spirits. I hope we get to see more. I can't help but feel given what you guys have said that A View to a Kill and Die Another Day would probably be the most intriguing films to hear you tackle next. Haha
I agree with David. Having seen my first Bond film, “The Spy Who Loved Me” in the theatres a couple of years earlier and then seeing “Moonraker” a couple of years later it felt like a real letdown.
The imbalance of suspense and piles of cheesy humor spoils a lot of it. The gravest error is ruining that amazing skydiving stunt at the beginning by adding the circus tent nonsense leaves one with a bad taste right from the start. Reminiscent of The Man With The Golden Gun, which took the most amazing car stunt ever performed and marginalized it with a "pop goes the weasel sound" instead of the 007 theme. Btw, John Barry stated that he regretted that musical choice in TMWTGG.
The novelization [written by the scriptwriter] has a lot of the comedy moments cutdown [for example Jaws doesn't appear in the Skydriving sequence] so I wounder if they were due to studio interference.
Love Moonraker. Delightfully daft, exciting and a wow visually. I just want to wish you the most fabulous Christmas and a very Happy and safe 2021. Thank you so much for being so entertaining. I really hope we get to see No Time To Die next year!!!! All the very best xxxx
Thank you very much for watching! I VERY much hope we get to see No Time To Die next year as welll... Hopefully on the big screen but we'll have to wait and see I suppose. All the very best wishes to you as well. Hope you have a really lovely Christmas and are able to celebrate in some way even with all the restrictions around the world etc. You're always so awesome and kind with the comments and I really appreciate it :) Have a lovely holiday break! :D
I love these discussions. I’m slowly turning towards positive feelings on Moonraker the more times I watch it. It is 2/3 of a great Bond film. It just needed one more tumble in the rock polisher before it was marked as ready for release.
8:16 I’ve seen this film countless times, and I’m only just thinking this now: surely, in Brazil, that billboard would be in Portuguese. It wouldn’t be in English. Sorry, I know that has nothing to do with your discussion, but it just occurred to me out of the blue.
I think though this counts as us the English speaking audience auto-translating Portuguese into English. It's the same reason why for example Portuguese speakers speak English amongst themselves in films.
I’ve seen Moonraker countless times and it is one of my favorite Roger Moore movies as bond and also one of my favorite bond movies cause it’s so Campy and funny and entertaining
Star Wars is not science fiction, it's fantasy that took place in space. I'm also a big Trekkie so these distinctions matter. Moonraker is definitely sci-fi.
I'm from Brazil and I have some issues regarding the geography and portrayal of our country, but I do like it. My mother saw it on the big screen and we watch it together from time to time.
Great channel and great stuff! I was surprised that there was no mention about the fact that Moonraker is the only Bond film in wich Bond doesn't use his Walter. The gun is not even shown during the entire movie haha Ps: I love Moonraker
Saw Moonraker When It First Hit The Theaters. Loved It. Underrated, For Whatever Reason. Roger Moore, Resourceful As Ever. Escaped Death So Many Times, & Still Able To Save The World. RIP Sir RM.
@@stephengordon8594 Yes, they hit it out of the park with this one, but they kept doing them for the next few movies right on into the Brosnan era and those were good too.
Great debate! There are a few Bond films that I WISHED that I loved, and I'm afraid Moonraker falls into that category for me (along with From Russia with Love and Tomorrow Never Dies).
I feel that way about Thunderball. I love the style, I love Connery's performance, I love the fact that the threat is plausible, but the film is boring as hell.
Even more ridiculous than the gondola scene is when the two space armies are coming out for battle. Dead’s guys are just being slowly shot out into space dead still, then the space shuttle opens up and there’s like 10 little American astronauts just sitting there lined up like it’s a troop transport, completely throwing off the scale of the space shuttle. It’s such a funny image before the actual battle begins.
I have always found the space battle horrifying there did seem to be dead astronauts spinning around before the battle had started, my son said he would of loved to be in the space battle lol.
Awesome video - made my day! I see all Davids points, but I still love the movie! This was my first Bond movie back in 1979, so I have a lot of nostalgia for it, but now I can also laugh at it for all its ridiculous ideas, and the 'The Spy Who Loved Me' rip-off script!
Another great discussion. David trying to put the Jaws teeth in had me in stitches. My own feelings of this movie are not far from yours. Good Villain, bad story, Roger not bad in many scenes.
Best part about Moonraker is seeing Jaws trying to fly like a bird and him breaking the steering wheel of the boat and the look on his face afterwards xD
As a Mass Communications major, I'd be very interested to know more about Moonraker's marketing campaign. Is there perhaps a video on that? If not, can there be in the future? I'd proudly tune into that. Also, I too enjoy Moonraker. I used to hate on it, but in more recent years I've really warmed up to and now have a blast wathcing it.
Ι felt like Drax's "illogical" actions (trying to kill Bond the moment they met, releasing the henchmen in every chance, move out from Rio etc) which actually led 007 to unveil the plot, were because he was very close to materialize his plans and wanted absolutely no delays. It sort of explained (very poorly of course) why he hijacked the moonraker and in the end said "one of my own malfunctioned" He could have just constructed a new one and no one would know about his plans
No chance, David, Moonraker is great. I don’t mind the going to space at all. For me that was bound to happen someday. After all Bond almost went to space as early as YOLT. But even more I love Moonraker‘s scale, its seventies‘ sense of optimism in technological progress - while at the same time its allusion to seventies‘ fear of potentially world-ending technological dangers. There’s some wonderfully naive nostalgia about it. The last hurrah of the post-war era before eighties‘ sobriety kicks in. Bond has never been as naive since. I also love Moonraker‘s global scale, not only when it comes to the apocalyptic scheme of the villain but also when it comes to the chase around the world that leads up to the start of the shuttles. Added to everything is one of Barry‘s best scores of them all. „Flight into space“ is just a masterpiece.
The reason why the investigative story in Moonraker just stops, is because in the script, Bond and Holly after teaming up in Rio, next get in an Acrostar jet (later used in the pre credits of Octopussy) each and follow where the Drax planes are taking cargo to. There's similarity here to Lewis Gilbert's You Only Twice's story of finding out where the industrialist is taking cargo to, oh a remote location, with seemingly nothing there. Then we find out it's a spacecraft launch site. As in YOLT, Bond and Holly's aircraft are attacked by the villain's aircraft. Bond wins, but Holly is shot down, seemingly dead. This of course is how she winds up held captive by Drax, when Bond later joins her at the jungle base. The sequence was scrapped when the water level at Angel Falls was too low for a part of the stunt to work. The script's replacement for getting Bond to the base is pretty lame. He finds it because it's the site of the Orchid that's the source of the toxin. But as Calvin says in his review, why go there? There's no reason to believe Drax will be there. It's just pure coincidence that Drax was too lazy to build his secret base somewhere else.
Very late comment obviously. I've listened to this debate and enjoyed it about three times now. I honestly don't see the problem with Bond going into space. He was a much larger than life indestructible character who had been placed in almost every environment on Earth (often in an over the top context), so a one-off journey into space really isn't much of a departure. It's harder to believe that he's an expert (or familiar) with almost any topic on Earth. Possibly the single worst example of this is in one of the most grounded Bond movies: Lazenby describing the correct classification of one of M's butterflies. You can argue that's a moment of humour, but it isn't believable characterisation. And EON needed the profits from each film to plow back into financing the next, so it's understandable that Broccoli seized the opportunity to expand the audience. My point is that (Dalton and Craig aside) the EON Bond series has always been fantastical to some extent and it has always sought out new environments/locations.
See I don't think that works as well. There are only two scenes actually like the Dark Knight. Raoul's Monologue about rats and his escape. I'd say both fit to benefit the story. Comparatively the end of Moonraker where he turns off the targeting system only exists as a means of copying something.
I think the first two thirds of Moonraker are actually pretty solid. I enjoy Bond using his charm to seduce leads out of Corinne, and I like the trail of clues that leads to Rio. I think Drax is established as a very ominous and ruthless threat from the start, and overall think the tone of the first half of the movie is generally quite serious (if not dark in some places), and as wacky as the gondola scene is, I think it helps keep the tone light after watching a woman be chased down by dogs. The Outer Space scenes still feel quite "down to Earth", it's not like they went wild and had space ships and laser swords - still not exactly "Science fact" but it doesn't feel ridiculous. Definitely valid criticisms also, the plot is definitely just a reiteration of The Spy Who Loved Me, but it still very much has its own identity so I don't see it as a problem. Definitely a nit-pickable film, but overall I stand with Calvin that it is just a very enjoyable movie to sit through and watch when the mood takes. I've always said the joy about the Bond franchise is there is a movie for every mood - if you want a serious spy thriller, you can find that in the more grounded Bonds, but if you're in the mood for something more wild and wacky, a movie like Moonraker is perfect!
Most criminal aspect of what they did to Jaws in Moonraker was turn him into some silly comic relief. Flapping his arms in the air in the PTS. Those face palm inducing face reaction shots when the cable car goes crashing into the station, and when the speed boat is about to go over the waterfall. It total ruined any threat they had established in the previous movie. As Zaritsky says, they turned him into a buffoon.
This channel deserves more attention.
That is science fact!
I quite agree with you! ;)
Lies, Mr Broccoli, lies!!
@@calvindyson im a bond superfan and I've been watching these movies since I was 6 and I'm 18 now and I couldn't be better
To answer David's point about Jaws and Dolly floating off into space, there is a brief line at NASA where they say an object has touched down in the ocean containing a small woman and a very tall man.
Saw this in the cinema in 1979 as a child so still remember warmly how thrilling I found this as a child.
Did you have the Moonraker cap gun and Corgi space shuttle? (I was always disappointed it contained some satellite rather than mini space marine figures?)
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho I met Lonsdale in '15 and he sgd my Mego Drax MIB , prolly the only Mego he sgd
Its a perfect Bond movie for children.
I think something else you could have talked about is the cinematography. Some of the shots in Moonraker really are breathtaking.
Absolutely true.
@@bandstem the scene were Venini shop girl (Bochenko) walks into the Mayan pyramid , breathtaking and with amazing music by Barry !
Some shots, but most of it is pretty standard. I love Moonraker, but let's not make it out to be something it just isn't.
Very very true. To this day I regret never seeing this on the big screen (For Your Eyes Only was my first in that regard). That must have been a treat!
I really like these two guys and listening to them chat about Bond is very comforting.
A modern moonraker remake/reboot with the next bond would be epic. The villain would be an Elon Musk gone rogue character (like in the book) and Bond has to stop a global plot to take the world by hostage with a space weapon. No crazy space travel or lasers. But something based on reality and the renewed interest in space exploration.
YES! That's what I've been saying since the last time I saw Moonraker. There's some potential there for a decent film if you give it a more serious spin and upgrade it for today's era, especially as we pretty much have a real life version of Drax these days.
I'm actually okay with Bond going to space, though. I just hate that he gets to call in the space cavalry. That's literally the one thing he shouldn't be able to do. Having him and his CIA counterpart up there on there own, with no means of communication and relying on their own wits, that's actually a quite intriguing concept.
@@simonbrunner3062 No I think it needs to do the exact opposite. It needs to be a self aware love letter to 1960's UK. It can have all the fun gadgets and things but it's self aware so the audience is in on the joke.
@@errolmargiela1261 Just to clarify, when I said "more serious", I meant compared to the original Moonraker, not compared to the recent Craig films. I fully agree that we should have more fun watching these movies than the last ones offered. But in 1979's Moonraker the camp reaches ridiculous levels. Actually, it goes beyond that. What comes after ridiculous? Ludicrous?
You can't do that today anymore. It wouldn't be distinguishable from a full-on genre parody like Austin Powers or Johnny English.
@@simonbrunner3062 and they will make Drax a white supremacist where his perfect human race will be all white blonds.
It would be great without daniel craig. 007 deserves a better guy.
David’s Cubby Broccoli impression really is spot on.
You have to love how Bond and Goodhead manage to hide on the starship. Their disguise? They blend in amongst all these 'perfect human specimens.'
I think that Tomorrow never dies in an underrated 007 film.
Same here. The film's concept it brilliant because it's based on the real life alliance between corporate media and government.
It’s certainly my favorite of the Pierce Brosnan Bond movies.
I agree a lot.The underated Bond films in my opinion are:YOLT,OHMSS,Moonraker,TLD,License to kill,TND,TWINE,QOS and Spectre
@@karlzahra5295 You Only Live Twice is my favorite James Bond movie period!
@@ricardocantoral7672 disagree. The actual pay off for elliot carver is not really plausible
Oh my. My favourite of your videos. And a title sequence! (Edit: And yes Moonraker is my favourite Bond movie)
Such a debate and collab as this deserved a full title sequence! :D Also, any excuse for me to have a play around editing some clips together from Moonraker! :D
@@calvindyson Ok, now I am fanboying
/simping lol I will just say I love your...content?
I'm with Calvin om this one. I'm very pro Moonraker.
The only movies that suck are the ones with Craig
@@Thatguy55595 clearly just trolling people 🤣 Craig's movies are all good, Casino Royale especially. It's certainly one of the top 3 Bond films
@@nathanchambers2607 not even close bud
@@Thatguy55595 oh sorry, you're probably one of those guys whose favourite Bond movie is Octopussy 🤣 even if you aren't a huge fan of some of the Craig films, you can't deny Casino Royale is easily among the best
@@nathanchambers2607 nope but good try it’s his best one but no where near the best bond film I don’t like boring Craig song he makes me yawn
I'm a Fleming guy, I like Dalton, I LOVE Craig, but man, I always have a great time with Moonraker and that score, one of Barry's best!
My favorite Bond movie. Man, I've loved this one ever since I was a kid. I know it's bonkers, but man, it's just so much fun. And Sir Roger Moore is just perfect in it.
I feel like Moore had a Really life or Death Situation. When he was going around in circles in that Space Training. You notice if didn't have that gadget he would have died. You see it in his eyes when leaving the machine
Not faked, apparently he had to have days off filming because his face was so bruised.
Man Moore really went threw it . He also almost got his front teeth nocked during Live And Let Die. During Shooting one of the boat scenes
Love Moonraker! It's a re-hash of The Spy who loves me but it has sci-fi (I was 5 during the Star Wars phenomenon) and is very entertaining. Very tongue in cheek with the double take pigeon but I love it! Sky diving scene at the beginning is one of the best pre-title sequences in the series.
That one time where Drax outsmarts Bond by somehow replacing the lab. I feel like a harsher Bond would have just pulled out the neurotoxin sample (Or a false vial he had a different glass shop make offscreen) to make Drax panic as proof he was up to no good.
That would have been mint but the short scene of him giving the vial to M after they made an arse of themselves showed that M shouldn't have doubted Bond. The line about 2 weeks leave gives Bond unofficial permission to keep investigating Drax, similar to when M (Hargreaves) tells Moneypenny that Bond is going after Sanchez in Licence to Kill.
@@andrewnicholson4278 That's true. M being willing to bend the rules for Bond by letting Moneypenny send Q was pretty cool. But yeah, Dalton bond would have absolutely pulled out the Vial and called it right there.
Enjoying this debate. I really like Moonraker, and I'd defend the investigation piece of go here find this, then progress to the next level. Esp the fantastic Michael Lonsdale. Best bad guy put down to Bond re British cucumber sandwiches.
It should be clear from that moment Drax was a wrong un, he did not offer a variety, inc smoked salmon or ham
Micheal Lonsdale in this looked like Peter Dinklage.
@@PaulBurgin a billionaire offering cucumber samdwiches, the cheapest sandwiches in the supermarket, cheap shit
@@edoris9021 They're a delicacy in High Society.
@@edoris9021 But he throws the steaks on the floor for his dogs. A wonderful cartoonish villain. ;-)
Really enjoyed revisiting Moonraker again when I saw it at the BFI last year. Also saw the film back in 2009 followed by a Q and A with Richard Kiel afterwards at the same venue. Very fortunate to have a photo signed by the great man as well.
Had a pic with him and George Lazenby. The man was absolutely massive, even in his latter years.
@@tcaudiobooks737 I met Laz at Pwood '05 , im slightly taller than him
The double-take pigeon is the high point in the history of cinema!
Exactly, so funny and underrated!
For some reason I've always found the use of the Space Shuttle more grounded in reality than the Thunderbirds rockets used in YOLT. That with Corrinne getting eaten by the dogs, Moonraker has more grounded moments than most people remember.
They also made the good move of leaving space to the third act, if it had been the entire movie it wouldnt have worked,the two thirds of conventional globe trotting Bond adventure warms the audience up for the epic outer space finale.
Not really - the hijacking scene was ridiculous. How can the main engines fire with no external tank fueling them? Even if they were housed in the cargo bay, on the launch pad the liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen propellants can only be kept in liquid form for a few hours before they heat up and turn back into a gas. And that's with all the fancy air-cons the launch facility has!
@@WhiteJarrah I also wonder how you use the top of a 747 as a runway. Plus if you can at all release the holding mechanism from inside the shuttle, it should immediately fall off the moving 747.
@@davidjames579 The opening scenes were obviously inspired by the Shuttle Approach and Landing tests, but was blown completely out of proportion.
Moonraker do have two of the more creepy and scary sequences in the series, Corinne being hunted by Drax's dogs and Jaws approaching Manuela down an alley way.
@@PungiFungi Artistic liberties , its not like say Bruce Lee could defeat 10 men like in the films
Calvin, I love Moonraker. I watched so many times and the time flew by. Terrific special effects. A travelogue of cinema. Beautiful women, beautiful cinematography!
This Nightfire multiplayer music for the intro is everything.
I love when Drax calls up the "henchman hotline" to replace Chang. It's like the scene in TWINE in which Dr. Arkov grouses to Renard about how the parahawks (used for the ski chase) were "rented and meant to be returned".
Also that was a spot on Alec Guinness, David. Well done.
Favourite Q quotes - 'I think he's attempting re entry'.
'Not now I'm too busy. Later perhaps' - Octopussy.
After Chang tries to kill him, James goes back to Holly’s hotel room. And without even half trying, he finds the deadly diary with the dart, the poison pen that’s a syringe, the purse that’s a radio transmitter, and the perfume that’s just a tad bit overpowering - actually a flamethrower!
James says, Standard CIA equipment. Holly gets this friendly/slightly embarrassed look on her face which is just great! 😊
And then later, she beats up two guards on the space station, and James just helps a little. He asks, CIA? She says, No, Vassar.
And then at the very end, Holly says, James this is our last chance. And it really is - and James comes through.
Meaning, we amateurs judge a movie by how good the very best parts are. We can put up with quite a lot if these deliver the goods. And I’m not sure pro reviewers fully get this point.
In any case, great conversation with David. Please keep doing this! 🌈 🚴🏽♂️ 🏡
We need more debates, love the points. Makes me wanna rewatch these movies with these views in mind
When has a James Bond film ever been "realistic"? Moonraker is a bloody good time, unlike some of the more serious entries.
And I'd say having fun is just as valid an idea as not having it. Live and let Moonraker.
Great video idea I’m excited to see how this pans out. I’m currently somewhere in the middle so maybe I’ll be swayed either side who knows
Moon raker has a special place in my heart as it was the first Bond I ever saw in the cinema. I was with my best friend, and as a child I embraced the spectacle. As an adult? It’s not science fact, but Bond has always been larger than life.
Jaws pushing Bond out of the jet at the beginning of the film - one of my favorite intro scenes.
I'm surprised you didn't cover the opening scene to Moonraker! It might be cliche today, but Bond falling out of an airplane without a parachute made for some great action. Sans the end when Jaws lived by randomly being caught by a circus net, it was great! Mostly all practical stuntwork too
This type of debate is similar to the Batman franchise, which has similar histories. The spectrum of the debate is on one side realism and the other side hammy. Moonraker would be like "Batman and Robin", Casino Royale with "Batman Begins" and so forth. Moonraker tends to be the litmus test on what side of the spectrum the fan is located. That fascinates me.
I can't think of many people who would defend "Batman & Robin" except as "enjoyably bad".
Whereas "Moonraker" is a film that it's fans genuinely think is good- not perfect, but still good.
Oh Jesus... David is back to saying “Wile D. Coyote”. For all that is holy and pure, it’s Wile E. Coyote!
These debates are awesome! Please continue to do more between the two of you.
It's great to see David actually make the Thunderball comparisons as I've found the similarities quite striking even being down to the 4th films for Connery and Moore.
Great discussion and I'd actually take Calvin's approach but toward A View to a Kill. I LOVE that film while there are MANY indefensible aspects of the movie, I just absolutely adore the absurdity behind it all!
It's a silly film but I like it a lot, I actually like it even more than the spy who loved me.
It, "Spy", and YOLT are all pretty silly spectacles. Tragically, films of such scale likely will never be made due to expensive costs and less profits due to the decline of traditional theaters (which predate COVID19) .
Hugo Drax had nice homes, multiple beautiful girlfriends, expensive collections, and could tell jokes.
Stromberg was an old guy who liked to look at fish.
@Grant Kerr So what where Countess Lubinsky, Lady Victoria Devon, Mademoiselle Delader, and La Senorita Delmatio all doing hanging around Drax?
Where they doing an Auric Goldfinger and were there to be "just seen?"
What always gets me is that Stomberg didn't seem to have any female employees? How was he going to populate his underwater city? At least Drax has his breeding couples.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho He had Naomi and the secretary who leaked the microfilm.
I must admit I think Moonraker is an underrated gem of a Bond film. The bit that always sticks with me is John Barry's score when they're trying desperately to destroy the three orbs whilst the shuttle is skimming across the atmosphere. It's such a great moment of tension... absolutely love it!!
For anyone who wants do some further reading on the concept,
30:30
The trope David is describing here is "Out of Character Is Serious Business."
It can be VERY effective plot point if used right.
One of my favorite pieces of product placement ever was when, in his Recapping video, DBF inserted himself into the British Airways billboard. "Dutchbondfan The channel tailored for Bond fans!" Brilliant
Aside from the sheer pleasure of watching/listening to 2 Bond fanatics debate and discuss, I love the subtle interplay between a slightly more seasoned David & a more youthful, often laughing Calvin. It makes me think of an admired uncle who is fond of his nephew who is just as bright, shares a passion in filmdom, & with whom he can show off his gadgets to impress. Quite lovely.
These are fantastic, boys, keep em coming!!
How did Drax build a space station IN SECRET? You would have been able to see it with the naked eye!
Radar Jamming. This makes it invisible.
He sent up rockets with satellites which eventually linked together to form the station?
@@davidjames579 Even with the strongest telescopes from earth it would seem. And any other manned space flights too.
@@davidjames579 How did he obtain the radar-jamming equipment without anyone noticing?
@@davidjames579 Only for radars.
Most of Moore's dialogue was one liners - 'I like it already', 'play it again Sam', 'not want I want to get stuck with tonight'.
Or even less - 'bang on time', 'a woman', 'balls Q?'.
Great debate! I really enjoy Moonraker, it's just a highly entertaining piece of fantasy and escapism. I'll agree there a few moments where the humour goes overboard but those are not the main things I take away from watching it. As for the whole going into space thing, I think for the time it was fine. I don't think they would get away with it today and yet the space sequences are the highlight for me.
I thought it was Moores worst performance as Bond. All routine and no passion. Dr Goodhead is one of the stiffest Bond girls as Chiles can’t act. The cheesy slapstick humor verges on parody. The dialogue is so dull and the movie is all over the place. Also trying to pass off Drax’s house as being in SoCal is hilarious, and by the time the anti-climatic ending comes along with him shooting the probes I’m just bored to death.
Q almost single handily saves this movie tho with his re-entry line at the end lol.
@@sonnyblack0870 I respectfully disagree, but each to their own.
Well, here's to us. 🥂
I thought that they would have mentioned how both Moonraker and SWLM killed the same actor’s character. A submarine officer in SWLM and the copilot of the plane that crashed in the beginning of Moonraker.
I might have questioned why Bond and the helicopter pilot were staying at Drax’s mansion. If Drax had simply reserved a hotel room for Bond, then Bond never would have gotten into the study and found out he had to go to Venice.
I really enjoyed this video and discussion. You two should do more of them.
The conversations you two have had about Quantum of Solace and Moonraker have been fantastic. Very fun, pretty substantive and in good spirits. I hope we get to see more. I can't help but feel given what you guys have said that A View to a Kill and Die Another Day would probably be the most intriguing films to hear you tackle next. Haha
Loving these debates. Keep them coming. Always been a Moonraker advocate myself
Prefer Moonraker far more then Quantum or Spectre.
Quantum>Moonraker>Spectre
I agree with David. Having seen my first Bond film, “The Spy Who Loved Me” in the theatres a couple of years earlier and then seeing “Moonraker” a couple of years later it felt like a real letdown.
The imbalance of suspense and piles of cheesy humor spoils a lot of it. The gravest error is ruining that amazing skydiving stunt at the beginning by adding the circus tent nonsense leaves one with a bad taste right from the start. Reminiscent of The Man With The Golden Gun, which took the most amazing car stunt ever performed and marginalized it with a "pop goes the weasel sound" instead of the 007 theme. Btw, John Barry stated that he regretted that musical choice in TMWTGG.
I wish the film had more scenes like Bond's near fatal experience in the centrifuge.
@@ricardocantoral7672 You hit the nail right on the head. That scene was awesome. Perfect balance of drama and suspense.
The novelization [written by the scriptwriter] has a lot of the comedy moments cutdown [for example Jaws doesn't appear in the Skydriving sequence] so I wounder if they were due to studio interference.
WOW I was literally watching the Quantum one last night, and thought when is this one coming??!!
Love Moonraker. Delightfully daft, exciting and a wow visually. I just want to wish you the most fabulous Christmas and a very Happy and safe 2021. Thank you so much for being so entertaining. I really hope we get to see No Time To Die next year!!!! All the very best xxxx
Thank you very much for watching! I VERY much hope we get to see No Time To Die next year as welll... Hopefully on the big screen but we'll have to wait and see I suppose. All the very best wishes to you as well. Hope you have a really lovely Christmas and are able to celebrate in some way even with all the restrictions around the world etc. You're always so awesome and kind with the comments and I really appreciate it :) Have a lovely holiday break! :D
@@calvindyson Bless you Calvin. I look forward to a much better, happier and healthier 2021. Your videos are so funny! A bientot. xxxx
I love these discussions.
I’m slowly turning towards positive feelings on Moonraker the more times I watch it. It is 2/3 of a great Bond film. It just needed one more tumble in the rock polisher before it was marked as ready for release.
Could you please make a dedicated playlist or channel with all of these collected in?
8:16 I’ve seen this film countless times, and I’m only just thinking this now: surely, in Brazil, that billboard would be in Portuguese. It wouldn’t be in English.
Sorry, I know that has nothing to do with your discussion, but it just occurred to me out of the blue.
You know... You're absolutely right. Why would they even be advertising the British airline in Brazil at all?...
@@calvindyson This never occurred to me at all either 😆
The only flaw in the film
@@calvindyson we dont have 7up in brazil
I think though this counts as us the English speaking audience auto-translating Portuguese into English. It's the same reason why for example Portuguese speakers speak English amongst themselves in films.
I’ve seen Moonraker countless times and it is one of my favorite Roger Moore movies as bond and also one of my favorite bond movies cause it’s so Campy and funny and entertaining
Moonraker (Ian Fleming’s version) is such a great great great book.
Parts of that book found its way into Goldeneye. Alec Trevelyan was like Drax in the book.
Very interesting format!
IF you were dripping wet we would call you acid rain.
I hate that line too, " it's only 300 miles to Earth, they'll make it" . right (sarcastically) they won"t burn up in the atmosphere or anything!!!!!
I was LMAO at the "Three Legged Dog" reference to the film. Well done Another entertaining video.
Star Wars is not science fiction, it's fantasy that took place in space. I'm also a big Trekkie so these distinctions matter. Moonraker is definitely sci-fi.
"We're not Science Fiction, as a matter of fact we're Science Fact". George Lucas
I agree. Star Wars draws inspiration from Buck Rogers and John Carter. That was fantasy or "Science Romance".
Moonraker has a fantastical but clear plot that is realistic within its own universe.
You're saying that it's science fact?
Moonraker is the most realistic motion picture ever made. An exquisitely crafted piece of film-making. And that is a science fact.
Haven't seen this before was planning on watching this tonight
Really enjoyed this chat and I'm not even a big Bond fan.
I'm from Brazil and I have some issues regarding the geography and portrayal of our country, but I do like it. My mother saw it on the big screen and we watch it together from time to time.
Not the biggest fan of Moonraker but I would love to see Calvin do more of these kind of videos with David. Very interesting and highly insightful.
Great channel and great stuff! I was surprised that there was no mention about the fact that Moonraker is the only Bond film in wich Bond doesn't use his Walter. The gun is not even shown during the entire movie haha Ps: I love Moonraker
An excellent debate and kudos to both arguments. Really enjoyed this. Bring on the next one 👍🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Really enjoy these discussions. Thank you both.
Saw Moonraker When It First Hit The Theaters. Loved It. Underrated, For Whatever Reason. Roger Moore, Resourceful As Ever. Escaped Death So Many Times, & Still Able To Save The World. RIP Sir RM.
Great job boys!
I want to see one of these with raised voices, f-bombs, insults and rage....just for the Christmas spirit!
Desmond getting to deliver the puns about Bond's ending love scenes was a great idea they picked up on. I really liked it.
"He's attempting reentry" might be the best of the series.
@@stephengordon8594 Yes, they hit it out of the park with this one, but they kept doing them for the next few movies right on into the Brosnan era and those were good too.
The world is not enough is underrated.
Great debate! There are a few Bond films that I WISHED that I loved, and I'm afraid Moonraker falls into that category for me (along with From Russia with Love and Tomorrow Never Dies).
I feel that way about Thunderball. I love the style, I love Connery's performance, I love the fact that the threat is plausible, but the film is boring as hell.
@@ricardocantoral7672 That's fair. I, for one, LOVE Thunderball. But I can absolutely understand that perspective.
Even more ridiculous than the gondola scene is when the two space armies are coming out for battle. Dead’s guys are just being slowly shot out into space dead still, then the space shuttle opens up and there’s like 10 little American astronauts just sitting there lined up like it’s a troop transport, completely throwing off the scale of the space shuttle. It’s such a funny image before the actual battle begins.
I have always found the space battle horrifying there did seem to be dead astronauts spinning around before the battle had started, my son said he would of loved to be in the space battle lol.
Great video. What model is the gold Aston Martin on your shelf?
Awesome video - made my day! I see all Davids points, but I still love the movie! This was my first Bond movie back in 1979, so I have a lot of nostalgia for it, but now I can also laugh at it for all its ridiculous ideas, and the 'The Spy Who Loved Me' rip-off script!
Don't forget the spy who loved me had 0 to do with the book
Another great discussion. David trying to put the Jaws teeth in had me in stitches. My own feelings of this movie are not far from yours. Good Villain, bad story, Roger not bad in many scenes.
I have really enjoyed the debates so far. I would love to see more of them on any topic.
Best part about Moonraker is seeing Jaws trying to fly like a bird and him breaking the steering wheel of the boat and the look on his face afterwards xD
Great video, guys!
Did I miss it or did you really not talk about Ken Adam's incredible sets :).
As a Mass Communications major, I'd be very interested to know more about Moonraker's marketing campaign. Is there perhaps a video on that? If not, can there be in the future? I'd proudly tune into that.
Also, I too enjoy Moonraker. I used to hate on it, but in more recent years I've really warmed up to and now have a blast wathcing it.
Ι felt like Drax's "illogical" actions (trying to kill Bond the moment they met, releasing the henchmen in every chance, move out from Rio etc) which actually led 007 to unveil the plot, were because he was very close to materialize his plans and wanted absolutely no delays.
It sort of explained (very poorly of course) why he hijacked the moonraker and in the end said "one of my own malfunctioned"
He could have just constructed a new one and no one would know about his plans
No chance, David, Moonraker is great. I don’t mind the going to space at all. For me that was bound to happen someday. After all Bond almost went to space as early as YOLT. But even more I love Moonraker‘s scale, its seventies‘ sense of optimism in technological progress - while at the same time its allusion to seventies‘ fear of potentially world-ending technological dangers. There’s some wonderfully naive nostalgia about it. The last hurrah of the post-war era before eighties‘ sobriety kicks in. Bond has never been as naive since. I also love Moonraker‘s global scale, not only when it comes to the apocalyptic scheme of the villain but also when it comes to the chase around the world that leads up to the start of the shuttles. Added to everything is one of Barry‘s best scores of them all. „Flight into space“ is just a masterpiece.
The reason why the investigative story in Moonraker just stops, is because in the script, Bond and Holly after teaming up in Rio, next get in an Acrostar jet (later used in the pre credits of Octopussy) each and follow where the Drax planes are taking cargo to. There's similarity here to Lewis Gilbert's You Only Twice's story of finding out where the industrialist is taking cargo to, oh a remote location, with seemingly nothing there. Then we find out it's a spacecraft launch site. As in YOLT, Bond and Holly's aircraft are attacked by the villain's aircraft. Bond wins, but Holly is shot down, seemingly dead. This of course is how she winds up held captive by Drax, when Bond later joins her at the jungle base. The sequence was scrapped when the water level at Angel Falls was too low for a part of the stunt to work. The script's replacement for getting Bond to the base is pretty lame. He finds it because it's the site of the Orchid that's the source of the toxin. But as Calvin says in his review, why go there? There's no reason to believe Drax will be there. It's just pure coincidence that Drax was too lazy to build his secret base somewhere else.
For me, Moonraker is a very silly Bond film, but it has a lot of charm which makes it an enjoyable film to watch.
When you showed the pigeon at the end of the quick cuts i burst out laughing😂😂😂
Very late comment obviously. I've listened to this debate and enjoyed it about three times now. I honestly don't see the problem with Bond going into space. He was a much larger than life indestructible character who had been placed in almost every environment on Earth (often in an over the top context), so a one-off journey into space really isn't much of a departure. It's harder to believe that he's an expert (or familiar) with almost any topic on Earth. Possibly the single worst example of this is in one of the most grounded Bond movies: Lazenby describing the correct classification of one of M's butterflies. You can argue that's a moment of humour, but it isn't believable characterisation. And EON needed the profits from each film to plow back into financing the next, so it's understandable that Broccoli seized the opportunity to expand the audience. My point is that (Dalton and Craig aside) the EON Bond series has always been fantastical to some extent and it has always sought out new environments/locations.
Really enjoyed this, thank you both.
If Moonraker is just Star Wars, then Skyfall is just The Dark Knight.
See I don't think that works as well. There are only two scenes actually like the Dark Knight. Raoul's Monologue about rats and his escape. I'd say both fit to benefit the story. Comparatively the end of Moonraker where he turns off the targeting system only exists as a means of copying something.
@@DrSPF23Plus, Skyfall stopped being Dark Knight once they went to Scotland. *Then* it became Home Alone.
Or the dark knight rises which came out the same year. Not as good as the dark knight though
I very like Moonraker, funny places, good music, absolutly great villain. Nice 'space pullover' on Calvin this time ;-)
I think the first two thirds of Moonraker are actually pretty solid. I enjoy Bond using his charm to seduce leads out of Corinne, and I like the trail of clues that leads to Rio. I think Drax is established as a very ominous and ruthless threat from the start, and overall think the tone of the first half of the movie is generally quite serious (if not dark in some places), and as wacky as the gondola scene is, I think it helps keep the tone light after watching a woman be chased down by dogs. The Outer Space scenes still feel quite "down to Earth", it's not like they went wild and had space ships and laser swords - still not exactly "Science fact" but it doesn't feel ridiculous. Definitely valid criticisms also, the plot is definitely just a reiteration of The Spy Who Loved Me, but it still very much has its own identity so I don't see it as a problem. Definitely a nit-pickable film, but overall I stand with Calvin that it is just a very enjoyable movie to sit through and watch when the mood takes.
I've always said the joy about the Bond franchise is there is a movie for every mood - if you want a serious spy thriller, you can find that in the more grounded Bonds, but if you're in the mood for something more wild and wacky, a movie like Moonraker is perfect!
Most criminal aspect of what they did to Jaws in Moonraker was turn him into some silly comic relief. Flapping his arms in the air in the PTS. Those face palm inducing face reaction shots when the cable car goes crashing into the station, and when the speed boat is about to go over the waterfall. It total ruined any threat they had established in the previous movie. As Zaritsky says, they turned him into a buffoon.
Jaws and Dolly was rescued.Its reported that 2 survivors from space station were picked up by Colonel Scott. A tall man and a short blond.