I was LDS for years. Became LDS after college, married a beautiful cradle LDS lady I met in a singles ward, served in the Bishopric, on the Stake High Council, and then started reading LDS history. Big mistake for my LDS faith! It was a long journey, fraught with challenges to our married life, but God got hold of my life and my wife's heart . . . we entered Christianity in a Baptist Church, researched Church history and became Orthodox and are now "back home" practicing Catholics. Praise God!
So the fact that you can “become like god” didn’t raise a hug red flag? Considering that was the first lie told to humans by none other than the adversary?
"I say, the Word of God became a man, so that you might learn from a man how to become a god." - Clement of Alexandria "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalms...also Jesus.
What the devil said was that Eve would be "like God," not that she would be a god. What he meant was that she, who until then in her innocence knew only good, would now know both good and evil the way God does. (Even though evil is a privation and can't properly be said to be known, nevertheless God knows it as a privation just as we do. The difference is that God knew it from all eternity, whereas we had to learn it through sinning.) And that is exactly what happened. The devil did not lie. What he lied about was that she would not die, and it was her belief of that lie and concomitant unbelief in God's promise that she would die that brought about her and Adam's downfall.
@@jackdaw6359 And how do you think Mormons mean it? I'm LDS...I've seen other LDS make weird claims about becoming capital "G" Gods and running a bunch of planets and whatnot...but that's certainly not what any official doctrine or scripture states at all. I promise you that THAT specific conception of theosis is nothing but pure, unauthoritative speculation.
My wife is ex Mormon, coming from a Mormon family. Her family always treated me so kindly, way better than my own southern baptist family. Even after I converted to catholicism they still treat me well, and were more supportive of my conversion than my evangelical parents.
Dennis Prager once said at a forum that the true test of any religion is how its people behave. I like Rory Sutherland's take "It aint crazy if it works"
@@stevenlester985 _"...that’s a weird way of describing what Christ commands us to do."_ Are you denying that the literal worship of ritual human sacrifice is the core tent of Christianity? You know, that cross thing and John 3:16... Paul created Christianity in 48 AD and this is how he put it: Romans 8:32 "He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all." 1 Corinthians 5:7 "Christ our passover is sacrificed for us." Romans 3:25 "God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement." Romans 5:8 "God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us." Hebrews 10:10 "We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ."
@@stevenlester985 _"...that’s a weird way of describing what Christ commands us to do."_ Should we expect God to know what the Ten Commandments are? Which was Jesus's sixth commandment? (Notice that Jesus lists only the secular commandments that make no mention of God): 1. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. (Matthew 19:17-19) 2. Honor thy father and mother: Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honor thy father and mother. (Mark 10:19) 3. There was no sixth. Jesus listed only five commandments: Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother. (Luke 18:20)
Belief in the Catholic faith is not based on a single piece of evidence, such as the sincerity of the apostles, but on the totality of all the evidence. And it's overwhelming.
It all is j st one thing though. The resurrection. Issue is even if I grant you that Judaism is truth because we have equaled that miracle even today. It doesnt equal Sinai so you cant alter the covenant. That and Jesus is in hell
I too was a devout mormon. (6 generations). Found out that Joseph Smith wasn’t true. Left at 33 yrs old. Joined a baptist church and nondenominational for 20 plus yrs. Found the church fathers thru a Catholic who just invited me to look them up! I’ve studied for 6 yrs. Now just trying to get in the Catholic Church! 😀 not an easy task.😜🙏🏻 but trusting God through it. Please pray for me.🙏🏻❤️
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@@MeanBeanComedy _"We know all about your different worlds of heaven."_ LOL You say you know the "deets" of my religion but get them wrong. They aren't worlds but degrees in the same place. The Early Church Fathers even mentions them and gives details, would you like those quotes?
@dylanwilliams2202 You are being smug in your refutation over a technicality. The person you are responding to is correct in the ways that matter, and you aren't even correct. The celestial kingdom has degrees within it, but the Terrestrial and Telestial kingdoms are both described as completely different realms/places. At best, the issue of whether or not they are on different worlds would be unsettled and the idea that they are would be perfectly compatible with LDS theology. I'll bite. What quotes are you referencing?
@@bearistotle2820 The very early Church Father, Papias understood that the Saviour's three degrees of 'fruitfulness' (Matthew 13:8, Matthew 13:23) corresponded to the Pauline three 'heavens' or 'glories' (1 Corinthians 15:41). According to him (as recorded in the first century account of Polycarp), the 'Elders' agreed that “Those who are deemed worthy of an abode in Heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendor of the City. For everywhere the Saviour will be seen, according as they shall be worthy who see him. But that there is this *distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixtyfold, and that of those who produce thirtyfold; for the first will be taken up into Heaven; the second class will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the City; and that on this account the Lord said, “In my house are many mansions”' for all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling place, even as his word says, that a share is given to all by the Father, according as each is or shall be worthy.”* That was also quoted by Irenaeus in his book. Origen, in the early third century, revealed that the early Church interpreted this passage in essentially the same way “Our understanding of the passage indeed is, that the Apostle, *wishing to describe the great difference among those who rise again in glory,* i.e., of the saints, borrowed a comparison from the heavenly bodies, saying, "One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, another the glory of the stars” (Origen, De Principiis 2, Chapter 10 paragraph 2) Clement of Alexandria also expressed belief in the three degrees, and echoed the Lord's revelation to Joseph Smith that those in the highest degree "are gods, even the sons of God." From Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 6 chapter 14 titled “degrees of heaven”, “Conformably, therefore, there are various abodes, according to the worth of those who have believed . . . . *These chosen abodes, which are three, are indicated by the numbers in the Gospel--the thirty, the sixty, the hundred.* And the perfect inheritance belongs to those who attain to "a perfect man," according to the image of the Lord . . . . To the likeness of God, then, he that is introduced into adoption and the friendship of God, to the just inheritance of the lords and gods is brought; if he be perfected, according to the Gospel, as the Lord Himself taught.” Clement also preached that the three gradations of glory are procured by virtue of three types of actions: [Clement of Alexandria] reckons three kinds of actions, the first of which is . . . right or perfect action, which is characteristic of the perfect man and Gnostic alone, and raises him to the height of glory. The second is the class of . . . medium, or intermediate actions, which are done by less perfect believers, and procure a lower grade of glory. In the third place he reckons sinful actions, which are done by those who fall away from salvation. Just like the Early Church Fathers In the vision of the kingdoms of glory to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon (Doctrine and Covenants section 76), the Lord revealed that 1 Corinthians 15:40-41 is not just a comparison of earthly bodies with heavenly, but also a reference to the fact that there are three different major levels of glory to which a body can be resurrected: “And the glory of the celestial is one, even as the glory of the sun is one. And the glory of the terrestrial is one, even as the glory of the moon is one. And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differeth from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world.” (D&C 76:96-98)
The Egyptologist info on the above video needs to be updated. As Paul Gregersen demonstrates that Joseph Smith was right, the Egyptologists were wrong.
@@bearistotle2820you're still alive! Nice to see you again my friend haha I meant to ask you years ago if your name had anything to do with a certain tall man who now lives in Idaho.
Oof, Kwaku M. El is so freaking abrasive that he makes James White look downright cordial by comparison. Coming from an LDS family, I know the vast majority of LDS people are wonderful, but man, I cannot stand listening to Kwaku.
Knew some lovely Mormon folks in college. Friendly, well dressed, and pretty fun to hang out with. Eventually I did find the Catholic center so slowly stopped seeing them, but they weren’t too disappointed about it. Even went with them to their temple down in Houston, which was…. Different for me. One of the guys told me he actually “stood in” for his deceased relatives there, something like 10 times he was ‘baptized’ in their place. Still don’t really understand how that became a practice with Mormons, but I feel that way about a lot of non-Catholic practices. At the end of the day though, I do feel a bit sad for Mormons/LDS folks. Yes they seem happy and all that, but I just can’t understand how they can reconcile such strange ideas when compared to basic history. Catholics get the same accusation of course, but most of those accusations can be refuted with solid evidence if the accuser is willing to argue in good faith. Mormonism though, I just don’t see the same level 🤷♀️
It's a great question. Paul instructed disciples re:this practice in Corinthians chapter 15. Reconciliation comes with study and understanding. it actually makes sense if you try and figure out how someone could be condemned to hell for not having an opportunity to be baptized...which incidentally is how the practice of infant baptism began. Why would God condemn innocent babies to hell, limbo, etc while a sinful baptized person is saved? Isn't this far harder to reconcile than the belief that everyone will have an opportunity to accept or reject the gospel of Jesus Christ and have a baptism performed on their behalf?
@@HaleStorm49Paul mentioning something is FAR from him supporting something. Baptism does not make sense after death. If they are dead, they either get saved or not. If not, no prayer or ritual from third persons will help them.
@@HaleStorm49 Have you read the chapter? You cited the whole chapter so I guessed you did. He was not in the whole section teaching practices. It was debunking! Baptism was already discussed in other letters and it was clear the why and how. Read it well: In that section he is first criticizing a specific heresy that believed that the unbaptized are annihilated at death - their soul just vanishes, nothing after. Jehovah's Witnesses is a modern heresy that advocates this, I believe. Right after he says basically if there's no soul, what are you baptizing anyway? The whole argument is about resurrection after death being FUNDAMENTAL to Christianity. "If Jesus was not resurrected, YOUR FAITH IS FUTILE" So brother, much what we know of baptism is all over the Bible, it's just not in that part. The whole Bible makes it extremely clear: Salvation is YOUR responsibility. You cannot save others by proxy! Why can't I then take a roster of the world's dead from the last 100 years and baptize them? Damn, let me baptize Hitler real quick, he'd go straight to heaven with no effort of his own!
Here is a "very interesting" statement (from a "high up" Catholic leader) that you might find interesting. This is what he said when he came to Utah (and visited with the lds church members) : “Many years ago a learned man, a member of the Roman Catholic Church, came to Utah and spoke from the stand of the Salt Lake Tabernacle. I became well-acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen languages at his tongue’s end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy. One day he said to me: ‘You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don’t even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that’s all there is to it. The Protestants haven’t a leg to stand on. For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the apostolic succession from St. Peter, as we claim, there is no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism’s attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the gospel in latter days.’” (LeGrand Richards, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder [Deseret Book Co., 1950], pp. 3-4.)
@HaleStorm49 You are correct that as false, demon inspired religions go Islam is way more successful - a billion adherents vs 16 million. But it's early days for Mormonism. Maybe in 1500 years we'll be talking about the Mormonite Empire of the 2200s.
I too became Catholic because the God of the Bible is clearly not the one Joseph Smith lays out. “Hear, O’Israel, the lord your God is lord ALONE.” That being said, they way Mormons behave is often more Christian than most Christians. Good people even though the beliefs are deeply flawed.
What's interesting about the LDS Church is that they claim they're the "restored" Church of the Apostolic Age. Yet, when you read the Apostolic Fathers (Ignatius mainly) and the Didache, we can see that the Church of the Apostolic Age has really no theological similarities. I recommend to every Mormon to read the Didache.
Same, what I was taught about Catholicism and the early years of Christianity during my Mormon childhood is completely unrelated to reality. When I started studying actual history my Mormon “testimony” got knee-capped.
What about the "12" apostles (?) If Christ church continued (after the death of the apostles) why weren't the apostles replaced? (I think the councils of nicea and others) sort of made the catholic church more of a "state" religion (with pieces of truth, but also to keep it under control, shroud it in mysticism and nebualties) also taking away "core" doctrines (which was proven) like the concept of our "Pre-mortal" lives (meaning we lived with God and Jesus) before our births and we just weren't "snapped into existence". As per the "12" have you ever seen the Chosen series? (really good, I highly recommend it).
As a Latter-day Saint/ long time fan of yours, I must applaud you for the high quality video. Though I obviously have my disagreements with what you've presented, overall it's a very well researched/ considered critique of our faith that deserves serious attention. Quite often people who criticize Mormonism do so from a blatantly misinformed perspective. It's refreshing to see somebody take our faith seriously enough to actually do their homework. Well done!
@@Jay_in_Japan Yeah. Back in like 2015 (kinda old news). Please tell me you don't think the CES letter is the pinnacle of critiques with regards to Mormonism? Dan Vogel for example (an actual scholar unlike Jeremy) is a much better source
Thanks Ethan. You saved me from writing out a comment. Although Trent is incorrect in quite a number of points I do appreciate him taking more time than most to research.
My grandpa was a cradle Catholic and quite the character. When he was getting on in years he used to answer Mormons by saying, "Oh you're here to talk to me about the Angel Moron!" Playing it off as senility.
Another former Mormon that became Catholic. Although Orthodox rather than Roman. I enjoy most of your stuff. Funny the way time changes things for us. If you were to say 10 years ago I’d be offering up prayers to Mary and the Saints I’d say you were crazy. My soul is finally at peace now. Love my Roman brothers!
What do you mean ? Either you are part of the holy, saint, unique and universal Catholic church in one of its 24 rites (Roman(or Latin), and the 23 eastern rites (Maronite, Gueze, Greek-Catholique, Melkite, Syro-Malabar, ....) which indeed have an Orthodox faith. Or you are part of the shismatic church that call itself orthodox and you are thus not part of the Catholic Church.
Well the official name of the church is “The Orthodox Catholic Church” and we say the Creed every week expressing the belief in one Catholic Church and talk to every Orthodox priest and they will say we are Catholic but what do I know?
Man, I'm so stoked for this video. I used to be mormon and I'm reading about Catholicism. I've been waiting for Trent to do a video about this. I'm going to save it for tomorrow after work as a reward for making it through another shift. Lol. Love your videos.
If you'd like a place to ask questions about Catholicism, I highly recommend checking out crossthetiber.org There's a lot of good folks there that are happy to answer questions and point you to great resources. -Kyle
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@@dylanwilliams2202your “prophet”literally pulled “revelations” out of his ass left right and center for his own convenience lol. Why would I follow such a phony religion?
The Mormon Great Apostasy is even worse than stated here. In Mormon Theology, the Church must people in the Office of Apostle, who have what they call the "Melchizedek priesthood." This is distinct from the "Aaronic priesthood" which they believe their bishops, elders, etc hold. The Melchizedek priesthood is necessary for ordaining new people; Aaronic priests cannot ordain. So the loss of the Apostles means the loss of the Melchizedek preisthood. What this means for the Mormon Great Apostasy is that as soon as the last apostle dies without anyone in that office, you cannot ordain anyone else, meaning the church dies in one generation. You may note that none of the early church writings mention any sort of distress about the lack of an apostle office leading to the loss of valid ordination. This leads to one of three potential conclusions. Either 1) the sin/heresy of the Church was absolutely irrelevant to the Great Apostasy, because even if they had not sinned the Church would have still lost priesthood authority from the death of the apostles; 2) the Church had gone almost entirely apostate while the Apostles were still alive such that they decided not to ordain any new Apostles (this would seem to contradict the existence of Titus, 1 and 2 Timothy, and the Philadelphian Church in Revelation 3:7-12); or 3) the Apostles were completely unaware that an office of Apostle was necessary to continue the priesthood. To this last point, some Mormon apologists explain the loss of Apostles by saying they were unable to appoint successors due to getting martyred. Setting aside that Mormons believe John the Apostle is still alive so he should be able to ordain, the actions of the Apostles are much more consonant with a vision of spreading throughout the world ordaining bishops to continue succession, than needing to keep Apostle Office alive and sending out missionaries whose death would not cause the death of the entire Church.
Option 3. They were aware because they were Apostles and Christ taught them what was to occur. There are several verses in the NT that reference both the apostasy and the restoration of "all things" which includes things that have never been taught before in the last dispensation before Christ returns.
Love the line from the s t.the voyage home. Spock is mind melting with Gracie the blue whale is her name in the tank. Kirk to the whale specialist: " He did too much L.D.S in the sixtys. ". Thats what Roseanne Barr says too
Just this morning was telling my husband about Medjugorje, the Marian apparition...he wanted to know to whom, to Joseph Smith??? No, Hunny. The Virgin Mary did not appear to Joseph Smith.
It is interesting to note that the 19th century had many groups that tried to get back to what they thought was the “original NT church,” and rejected all other existing denominations. The Reconstructionists were one such Christian group.
About the necessity of monotheism, let me tell you one thing I found out. If you want to make a Hindu really angry, call him/her a polytheist. They will tell you that all the gods and goddesses to whom they pay honour are just aspects of the one and only God. There cannot be more than one, because the Lord, Ishwara, Bhagavan, is the Self of the universe. Polytheism always tends to this direction - you can find the same tendency in Greek philosophy.
InspiringPhilosophy's "The Case for Ancient Monotheism Documentary" video also sheds light on evidence for monotheism amongst aborigenal tribes from Australia.
Former member but it was the same plates just 116 pages were not translated. The plates were actually Brass. The reason I became Catholic is the fact the Book of Mormon teaches of Mary's sinless nature and in Transubstantiation, then in Doctrine and Covenants 20 Joseph Smith rejects Transubstantiation. My question then is if Mormonism is true, then why the conflict of scriptural teachings? Catholicism never conflicts with the teachings of the Apostles and Prophets. I then studied the keys of the kingdom, each key pointed me to the Catholic Church.
Wow i didnt know the post-gold plates stuff. I thought they were Christians plus gold plates story. The "God was one of us" bit turns them into something else entirely. No unmoved mover.
I wouldn't go as far as considering them as even Protestants but as a separate creature altogether, mimicking hints of Christian beliefs like a camouflage but ultimately different.
Mormons arent even protestants. Mormons deny the Trinity - the most important and pivotal belief of the Christian faith as it centers around who God is in essence. Since they deny the Blessed Trinity, a belief found in ancient Christianity amidst some heresies brewing, they can never have valid baptisms. Mormons are Christian and I do not say this gleefully. It's a tragedy.
Read the book, Russia and Universal Church. Vladimir was a russian orthodox who converted to Catholicism, he was one of the brightest minds of the east.
It would be cool to have a part 2 where Trent addresses some of the rebuttals he's received by the Mormons in the comment section, especially those quoting scripture about the exaltation of men and the Trinity. I think It's an interesting conversation for everyone. As a former member of the Mormon church going through RCIA, I've found that there is an abundance of Catholicism vs Protestantism discussion, but there's not a whole lot of in-depth critique of Mormonism from the Catholic prospective. I understand Trent can't do a 3 hour podcast, but addressing some counter arguements and interpretations of the Bible that Mormons commonly give would be a fitting companion to this video.
I too was Mormon and was baptized Catholic just over a year ago! I had this same conversation with my husband who is a cradle catholic. He thinks the reason why there is not a lot of Catholic vs. Mormon videos out there rebutting the Mormon faith is bc a lot of Catholics have bigger issues with protestant faiths and wanting to bring the church back to its fullness since the schisms rather than the Mormon church which is not even part of the Christian denomination. The YT page God Loves Mormons has some great content but it does come from a Protestant perspective but I find it is still great information as it uses biblical evidence to explain different topics. Wish more Catholics would talk about it but not many Catholics have a good understanding of Mormonism. I find it’s hard to unless you grew up in it.
@@alyssaprice2511 I also figured Mormonsim is small potatoes in the scheme of things, but it's sad to see that when many people leave Mormonism they end up Atheist. My sister has also decided she doesn't believe in the LDS church (we sort of went on this journey together) and I fear she's gone down the Athiest tract. So much of Mormon criticism includes progressive athiest ideology (Mormon Stories). I wish there was more targetted outreach from Catholics to Mormons. I'm in Utah, so there's plenty of former member's teaching and going through RCIA at the parish I attend, so there's at least some community, but not a whole lot of online community.
@@sirshramp5934 I couldn’t agree more! Majority of people who leave the Mormon faith become agnostic or atheist. Small % become Christian. I was invited to go on the Mormon Stories podcast and turned it down because I do not align with John’s lack of religion. He does have great information when it comes to the falseness of Mormonism but gets it terribly wrong with promoting agnosticism and atheism. Yes, not many Catholics talk about the issues of Mormonism online and I think it’s a shame especially since people’s souls are at stake here. I think it can be intimidating since Mormonism is a very hard religion to understand since it is a lot of mental gymnastics and a lot of the terminology is the same as Christianity but their words have different meanings. It’s been on my heart to create a community online for this type of content that you and I are talking about so I may have to give it some serious thought. I wish there was more information from a Catholic perspective when I was leaving Mormonism.
@alonso19989 Yeah! I came accrossed him a few days before he did that episode on Trent's show. I really like Joe's approach. Exactly what I was looking for!
I grew up in a Mormon family. All my childhood I was told how Joseph Smith was a prophet that restored the true Church. Then as an adult I really started studying things like Doctrine & Covenants, and started feeling doubts. One day I watched a PBS documentary where I learned for the first time that blacks had been barred from the priesthood and the LDS prophet at the time, Gordon Hinckley, described the meeting where they made the decision. It caused a crisis of faith because the priesthood is a huge part of Mormonism. Wouldn't God have made such a big detail right from the beginning of a "restoration" of the Church? Then if you start digging into who Joseph Smith was you could really start to see the manipulation he exerted on people. Mormons are generally good people but they have been misled.
My inlaws are Mormon and I've always said that people join the church for the social structure, not the doctrines. The social structure is amazing. Truly nice people with lots of activities going on, and excellent support of families. But the doctrines........ 😬
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimalyou can't have one without the other...as most other churches have demonstrated while turning their nose at LDS theology.
@@HaleStorm49 no, there are very very many nice Protestant and Catholic churches too. With lots of families building community, good structure, members helping each other grow in virtue. So you can have the social structure without Mormon doctrine. My point was that Mormons have definitely got that going for them....and that's what's attracting people cause the doctrine is illogical.
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimal thinking illogically is like bullying. You can see it everywhere except in the mirror. Jesus taught us that it's not the seed it's the soil.
If you do debate a Mormon please do not debate Kwaku El. (the Mormon from the clip you showed debating the protestants) He is a random party planner who only gets invited to do debates because he has a social media presence and is willing. I would recommend Robert S. Boylan who is a graduate of the Pontifical University of Ireland, and has published a few books on LDS thought. Behold the Mother of My Lord: Towards a Mormon Mariology was probably my favorite. He also used to be Roman Catholic, so he would be equipped to talk about differences in theology with out confusing common terms and words used between the two churches to say different things.
Thanks for the video. I was born and raised LDS. I also served a mission and taught about the Book of Mormon for two years. I'm 35 now and, for a variety of reasons that would be too long to list here, recently came to the conclusion that the book isn't what I thought it was/what it claims to be. That conclusion has left me reeling because of it's implications, so I've been engaged in listening to a lot of apologetics recently while I try and piece my faith back together. Your channel has been refreshing and I appreciate you taking time to touch on this. Consider this a request for you to do more videos on the subject.
Biggens - As an active LDS member, I tell people that if their church had a better value proposition I would leave tomorrow. it's essentially a trade. I am promised exaltation, eternal marriage, temple worship, covenant blessings, spiritual inspiration, and physical protection...which I believe I have received in spades. What do I get if I trade that in to become Catholic, or join an online church like Apologia - or become agnostic/atheist? Where is the best long-term ROI for myself and the kids...do you have kids? Were you able to trade up for something better? I'd be interested in a similar trade.
@MBiggens, I was a devout Latter-Day Saint my entire life. And when I say devout, I mean I was all in. Then I learned about Sacred Tradition and the Church fathers. I eventually came to the conclusion that either Christ's church was lost and had to be restored, or it had always been on earth just as he promised (Ephesians 5:29-30; Matthew 16:18; John 14:16, 18). It was at this point that I realized I had to address my concerns regarding the JST. In short, I found the Bible to be the most/only reliable book of scripture. Eventually after much studying and prayer, I was baptized into the Catholic church 2 months ago, at age 36. I wish you the best in your journey and I hope you will soon join us!
@@rhamsesmartinez5007 Thanks for sharing! I've actually been attending mass for the past couple of months and plan to start RCIA in around September. My wife went through a similar process and has recently been baptized at a non-denominational evangelical church. It puts us in a strange situation, but I trust that God will do His own work in us and guide us to where we're supposed to be as long as we seek sincerely. Best wishes to you moving forward as well!
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii Paul has no formal teaching in history let alone hieroglyphics or Egyptology so I think I will trust the actual educated people over someone who has made LSD induced videos on UA-cam
@@davidlarssen15HAHAHA, priceless. Paul doesn't need to be an Egyptologist. As Joseph Smith, by revelation, translated the counterfeit (facsimiles) back to the true meaning.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii So he needs to have no formal education in a subject to refute those who do this is why Mormonism is false they put aside all logic and irrefutable facts and just have faith because your heart says its true. JEREMIAH 17:9 - The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
Tell me, without any doctrine from the LDS church, how does God save those that never heard about the gospel but are still under His spoken law that no one will enter the kingdom of God without baptism?
As an ex-Mormon and now (Evangelical Protestant) Christian, I would love to see further dialogue or debate between you and LDS apologists. I always really appreciate your reasoned approach even when I disagree with you.
I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We have scholars that give great answers to all these issues which Trent raises. I appreciate his honesty and sincerity. I once left my faith once after learning about these issues. My favorite scripture though is proverbs 3:5 which says to trust in the Lord with all thine art and lean not on thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths.” I’ve done that and I’ve overcome the craftiness of men and answered all my questions and issues. Nevertheless I get why people can’t get over these issues and I still love y’all. I enjoy the channel and find all these discussions interesting.
“Great answers”? Hmmm, I’m gonna disagree with you there, as an ex-Mormon who went through the process of hoping lds apologists could provide answers. Their answers are laughable. Sorry, they are shooting blanks, friend.
I don't think Trent understands enough about LDS theology to do a good enough job of deconstructing their beliefs. Watching someone obliterate a strawman is pretty unimpressive. Also, anybody got a map of the Garden of Eden? No? Why is that ok again? The Book of Abraham isn't the keystone of lds faith but I understand wanting to use it to discredit Joseph smith as a prophet. However, I think it's a fairly weak argument due to many factors regarding original documents, aprocryphal validations, and ancient literary tropes. It's just not the gotcha people make it out to be.
Apparently, there’s some controversy on this one in LDS circles. I brought this one up at work once mentioning that since I grew up around a lot of LDS (my grandfather’s sister married one of Orrin Hatch’s nephews), I thought having caffeine-free Dr Pepper around all the time was normal. When I mentioned that the LDS members can’t have caffeine, an LDS coworker, and BYU grad, quickly corrected me on this. All of that is anecdotal, obviously, but there are at least some Mormons that are ok with caffeine. -Kyle
@@lukehanson_Am I correct in thinking that Doctrine and Covenants prohibits consuming hot drinks? I read it 30 years ago when I was a Catholic missionary in Japan and came across Mormon missionaries on several occasions. I thought I recalled reading that prohibition.
Kudos to you for reading all these Mormon books. I can’t have this stuff living in my head. The Mormon faith is so confusing with no logical path. Thank you for trying to make sense of all of this for us.
Hey! Mormon here. You've made a lot of great content here and I've loosely followed you for a while now. Almost every single time I see a headline about Mormonism, it's almost a guarantee it's full of nonsense and misinformation. So honestly it was a relief to see that you actually attempted to depict our faith as accurately as possible. It's not hard to tell when someone has actually taken the time, and when they haven't. We tend to be an easy target or punching bag for larger Christendom so many tend to try to get away with half-baked research. I can tell you're acting in good faith though and I appreciate that. There are a few mistakes/ambiguities I'd like to correct if I may: - You said he had many spiritual wives, some of which were 14. For one, only a single one of these "wives" was 14, which was not considered wrong or especially unusual in his day. But further on that, she was only sealed to him for "eternity only". It may be helpful to understand how sealings worked at that time to understand why many of his "wives" were not wives in the way we picture them as sexual partners. - You said after Martin Harris lost the 116 pages Smith translated from other plates. That's not really true as there was only one set of plates. Instead he was told to simply continue translating from the same set rather than going back. Perhaps that's how you meant it, but I think at the very least that can be confusing for some. - On plurality of gods: We believe in a plurality of gods, sure...but only officially as a lowercase "g" god (which is how all publications spell it). Some Mormons speculate on "infinite regression" (God having his own Father and so on) but the Church itself does not embrace or teach that doctrine. It does embrace a version of theosis, however. But there is no official doctrine at all about multiple capital "G" Gods. Many LDS (including myself) do not agree with this speculative idea of infinite regress or multiple "Gods". Many of my arguments (though not all) are the same as the ones you gave. In fact the way you describe the Jewish concept of Yahweh is spot on my conception and the way I understand LDS doctrine. - On the King Follett Discourse, a few things of note which are somewhat compounding: 1) It is not as a whole considered doctrine. Prophets are human and sometimes speak for God and sometimes speak for themselves...fallibly. This was a funeral discourse, not an official prophecy. That doesn't mean we can reject it outright, but rather it is not necessarily a reliable source of doctrine. 2) There was never an official transcript but many and there appear to be some disagreements on some of these especially controversial points of God once supposedly being mortal. 3) Many interpret the discourse to suggest God himself was exalted from his own mortality. That doctrine is not taught nor embraced by the Church, but is simply the result of speculation of rank-and-file members without authority to declare so. - This one is nitpicky but...Lamanites is LAY-man-ahyts, and idk how you pronounced Zarahemla but it's just as it's spelled lol. That's more just a personal peeve haha. Those are mostly doctrinal points I think need clarification. There are lots of things I could push back on regarding geography or God just being some superpowered alien, etc. but that's a whole discussion of its own. I hope these points can be helpful. Again I can at least appreciate you critiquing and addressing this in good-faith and even-handedly. I'd be happy to discuss these topics with you, although I'd highly recommend you reach out to the channel "Thoughtful Faith" who is actually far more familiar with Catholicism and philosophy/theology more broadly as well as doing video discussions and debates. He's done thorough discussions on Trinitarianism and Creatio Ex Nihilo which you brought up before as well. Since you've given some critique of Mormonism, I hope you're willing to engage with some good-faith responses. Despite some disagreements, I respect what you do 🙏🏻
@@glennyskitchen9491 Understandable but again a few points on that: 1) Such young marriages were not uncommon for the early 19th century. 2) Her "marriage" to Joseph Smith was a sealing for "eternity only". Meaning there was little to no chance they actually had sexual relations. 3) Her parents were the ones that initiated and approved the whole thing with her approval as well. Consent all the way around. 4) Helen Mar Kimball was her name. She actually went on to very much defend her marriage and the institution of polygamy later in life. She was one of the strongest defenders of it. All of which seems to me rebuts the "creepiness" of it.
Nothing screams "I have no sound and valid argument" like repeating the same word or phrase over and over with a smug smile on your face. You could tell the Mormon individual on the podcast was full of it. Thanks for calling out all this stuff!
Latter-Day Saints generally don’t self-identify as “henotheists.” Although we believe in multiple persons with distinct physical bodies, our scripture still describes this as one God. This was an unfair representation you made.
@@spideyN8R Wrong. They do not believe Jesus was God in the flesh but was a preexisting spirit child of God the Father and Heavenly Mother. In fact, they believe that Jesus and Satan are both spirit children of God and are brothers. These beliefs are not consistent with believing that Christ is God. Mormonism simply isn't Christianity. It's something else.
The Great Apostasy is more nuanced and kinder to Catholics than what you described. Latter-Day Saints do not believe there has ever been an absolute loss of people who strived to do everything in their power to maintain Christ’s power. Clearly there has been extreme devotion to Christianity throughout history ever since Jesus came to Earth. The only parts of the Great Apostasy that Latter Day Saints believe were absolute were the break in apostolic succession due to lack of transference of Priesthood keys by laying on of hands and a lack of continuing revelation. Latter-Day Saints believe priesthood authority must be transferred by laying on of hands as a saving ordinance similar to baptism, endowment, and temple sealing. Although there may be historical evidence of apostles attempting to delegate responsibilities in a church hierarchy, there is not evidence that priesthood keys received from Christ by imposition of hands, or laying on of hands, were transferred by laying on of hands to successors before the original apostles were killed. Ultimately the validity of this belief stems back to whether or not Joseph Smith was telling the truth. The best way to determine that is to read the Book of Mormon. Most naysayers don’t put in the time. Just like there is no “proof” of God’s existence, there is no “proof” that the Book of Mormon is true. If you understood the Book of Mormon, you would admit that it is not logically disprovable. Academically, there is plenty of literary evidence that the Book of Mormon is true. There is very little archaeological evidence, but that is the inherent lacking nature of American archaeology. If one wants to have good evidence, what better evidence than from God? Discerning answers from the Holy Ghost is by definition subjective, but all human knowledge is by definition subjective. All that said, having profound spiritual experiences is possible. My knowledge is by definition imperfect, but I know the Book of Mormon is true.
I've watched a number of your videos. And appreciate your background and efforts. This is my feedback on this topic: You should have LDS scholars on to discuss these topics. What you present is, by necessity with time allowed, very superficial (and at least slightly sensationalized and caricatured). I'll provide names and videos of 3 competent LDS scholars who could help you and your audience better understand LDS positions on the 3 topics -- topics you share as reasons to not be Mormon. I'll link each of the 3 LDS scholars to a video on that exact topic. Each below LDS scholar has spoken on many subjects, but are very familiar with the specific point you mention in your video. 1) Blake Ostler on the nature of the Trinity/LDS Godhead: ua-cam.com/video/-uJc-hp2NSs/v-deo.html 2) Mark Wright on BoM geography: ua-cam.com/video/FlAy1cDPLMo/v-deo.html 3) Robert Keller on the Great Apostasy. Keller, a former Presbyterian minister who converted to the LDS Church, speaks about authority and religion. He speaks about the greatness of the Bible, and the great things about other faiths: ua-cam.com/video/8K0bIejLaV8/v-deo.html For good measure, I'll add in this LDS Egyptologist and Book of Abraham scholar: Bonus: John Gee on the Book of Abraham: ua-cam.com/video/i5zdKRLQV-8/v-deo.html Appreciate your scholarship and efforts! It's a tough job to tackle an unfamiliar subject. These LDS scholars will surely help your audience better understand Latter-day Saints, their history, and teachings.
Thanks for this Trent. Had some Mormons come over and they wanted to come back tomorrow to explain their case more. Watching this and reading other material so I can be the best Catholic witness possible, and help kindly point them in the right direction and defend the True Faith.
You gave a poor history of the papyrus scrolls from which the Book of Abraham was translated. There is no evidence that the scrolls from which the book was translated weren’t destroyed just because there is evidence that some of the scrolls were recovered. Latter-Day Saints don’t believe the source text comes from these facsimiles you showed on the screen. The facsimiles are their own thing.
Serve others , repent of all your sins , try to be perfect, keep going until you ‘feel’ the Holy Ghost , ask the lord wanting to only do his will and not your own , make it a yes or no question , if you feel the Holy Ghost after you ask - your idea is true ! don’t ask in hate , don’t fear ….your video needs to be more scriptural read ‘a marvelous work and wonder by Lagrand Richard’s ‘ Believe me ! - the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints can stand any test ! I have something for you to understand … suppose I was to speak to you but all you saw was pictures of what I was saying !
As a former Catholic and a current member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we absolutely believe in God. We are all God’s children. Deification or Theosis is as old as Christianity. This doesn’t make God any less of an eternal being and the creator of the universe.
Please pray for my godmother, for whom I'm named. She married a Mormon when i was a child and she left the Church. A couple years ago she revealed to me that the Catholic Church had hurt her "very badly." I didn't get a chance to ask her what happened, but around the same time i learned that young girls in her age bracket, who were all from families of little means, had been abused by the parish priest. This was before Vatican II, for what it's worth. Many of the girls were being raised by their dads after their mothers died, or their mothers were very ill and hospitalized for some length of time. Being a farming community, the mothers didn't work outside the home, but contributed majorly to the family's income because everybody in the family worked on the farm. My godmother was such a girl. She had been sent to live at the rectory for a time, according to some (as noted, I didn't have a chance to ask her). There was a convent on the other side of the church from the rectory, so I don't know why the girls wouldn't have been sent there instead of to the priest's residence, and nobody can explain why, they just insist that's what the arrangement was. Whether my godmother was a victim of abuse or not, something happened that hurt her emotionally very badly, to where she left the Church. My parents asked her to be my godmother because she was pious, devout, and faithful, and they wanted that for me. Please pray for her to heal and return to Holy Mother Church, and also please pray for the victims of that priest and for all victims of clergy abuse.
That must have been traumatic she needs proper counseling.. and I see now why she saw Catholic that way. But a single priest must not damage the whole church.. even where I came from I know priest who was held accountable and in jail.. in summary judge d person not d whole church because everyone is a sinner regardless of religion
One by the name of Paul Gregersen demonstrates that Joseph Smith was right, the arrogant Egyptologists were wrong. Are you going to update your video to account for this?
One by the name of Paul Gregersen demonstrates that Joseph Smith was right, the arrogant Egyptologists were wrong. Are you going to update your video to account for this?
Several false items stated. One, the book of Abraham scrolls were not found after the great Chicago fire. Joseph Smith notes that the translation came from a “long scroll” not the several short papyri found after the fire including the facsimiles. In addition, although the facsimiles are similar to other well known Egyptian images, there are very odd features in the Abraham facsimiles such as an alligator appearing in a couch scene. It’s also worth noting that Smith never believed the images were firsthand from Abraham, hence he would take characters in the facsimiles that were clearly female and call them male to match the scene in the Book of Abraham. Secondly, you made some rapid jabs in covering Joseph Smith. The chaos that ensued with polygamy was a result of the revelation on celestial marriage. At the time, their sources for doctrine consisted of the Bible and the newly published Book of Mormon including a variety of discourses by church leaders before doctrine was fully understood. The restored church was only 14 years old when Joseph died. Many feared that they would not receive exaltation since they didn’t have access to celestial marriage due to already being married or because they feared their husbands would go apostate. That’s why many women wanted to marry Joseph Smith whom they saw as a guaranteed trip to heaven. They were mistaken in some ways. The 14 year old girl married Joseph to secure her exaltation, but continued to live with her parents after the marriage and remarried after Joseph’s death. Third, the use of gods in Abraham was a result of the Egyptian version of the creation account. Regardless, gods is not an incorrect translation of the Hebrew account, as Elohim means gods and they use plural terms such as “we”. Fourth, I took a Latin American history class (I’m at a secular university) and we discussed about massive empires and advanced civilizations found in Central America that are almost entirely gone. There are currently mass graves of hundreds being found in the jungles of Latin America. LiDAR tech has allowed us to see entire cities buried beneath the foliage. Though you can’t point out specific cities like the Bible, it can absolutely be substantiated.
Protestantism I understand, but how people fell and continue to follow Mormonism is beyond me. It's such a quack theology with a handful of gymnastics that are done to avoid historical Christianity and Divine revelation. Islam is just as false or bad but there's at least some small level of consistency in it. Mormonism I find to be irrationally misleading and inconsistent. Mormons are so kind but sadly, the Mormon "church" couldnt be anymore disconnected with the deposit of faith that has been given to us in Jesus through His Apostles.
It appeals to those who are emotionally vulnerable and those who don’t have a good understanding of religion. The mormons also have a really tight knit community so people who are looking for community, family, and a sense of belonging they gravitate towards mormonism. They are constantly doing activities outside of Sunday church services. They get you really involved with service work and group activities. It’s an emotion-based and feelings-based religion.
@@alyssaprice2511 Pew studies consistently find that Mormons know the scriptures better than members of other religions. That appeals to emotion-based and feelings-based people?
@@alyssaprice2511 Not to sound arrogant but I could beat you and anyone else in here in any theological debate and I have beat multiple Catholics in theological. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@HaleStorm49 The pew study is irrelevant to this topic. According to the Pew study, Mormons scored highest knowing basic questions about others religions. This isn’t too shocking as mormon missionaries are trained to have some basic understanding of others faiths when in the field. Having been Mormon for 22+ years, I have yet to come across a mormon who can go toe to toe with a Christian when it comes to understanding the bible. Mormons may know their book of mormon like the back of their hand but the little they know of the Bible is an inaccurate version which was re-written by Joseph Smith which has been proven to be false. The point to my original comment was Mormon Missionaries are able to convert those who are vulnerable through emotions. If they don’t the main argument to know the book of mormon is true wouldn’t be “read this, pray about it, and if you get a good feeling you know it’s true. But if you don’t get a good feeling, keep praying and keep reading”. That’s horrible logic. It says in the Bible we cannot just trust our feelings and emotions (Jeremiah 7:9-10).
@@alyssaprice2511 One of my favorite things is when a teenager or young adult says "I was ___ for 18 years" or "all my life" and then comments on something that makes them sound far younger than their actual age.
Reason 1 is that Trent already believes something different, despite the Hebrew saying different. The Hebrew word translated "create" means to form out of existing matter. The steady state of the universe has never been disproven. Trent, I invite you to stop trusting in the wisdom of men. Trust in God.
If you're going to start addressing Mormon truth claims then you need to be willing to have discussions/ debates with the best scholars we have to offer. I'd suggest inviting Robert Boylan or Blake Ostler on your show.
Thanks! I've read Boylan's blog and he has praised my work on pro-life and baptism. I'm open to maybe debating him in Utah if we can get scheduling figured out.
@@TheCounselofTrent Jacob Hansen also will do debates, he has debated the Trinity and source of authority before. His UA-cam channel is called Thoughtful Faith
Man, I used to be Mormon and the teach jeans that I learned were very, very corrupted not only that they taught that we could become gods one day, but the thing was I didn’t feel the spirit of God so I love the church and then I found myself into protestant where they talk about faith alone yeah I felt God in that, but it wasn’t the full truth, but the spirit of truth or Holy Spirit Brought me back home to the Catholic Church
I was raised Mormon and must admit I'm no longer one but I do believe that the insistence that Mormons aren't Christian is hurting all Christians, we can learn alot from each other
3 reasons I could Possibly be a mormon. 1,a pre earthly existence( potentially, God Asks them if they wish to participate in creation). This in a single swoop almost explains the problem of evil. 2, ! They dont really do Hell do they? And three, No Trinity? If they do though believe in the trinity, they make up, somewhat, for its deficits. That is, obedient Mormons get to become their own god.Makes a lot of moral sense. Being god is the best. Why not make man a god in that case Certainly a lower case god. But, IF the popes words are in fact infallible, then theres no Hell then? Isnt there syncritism to?. The Catholics R, in that case, by the far the best of the fundamentalists, or perhaps literalists. Your purgatory is also superior. Frank Turek cant answer the question, why does some A hole on his death bed - nothing left to lose, get a free ride to heaven?He avoids the question .
@@fantasia55 No he didn't. The closest quote you can find is "he would yet tread down his enemies, and walk over their dead bodies; and if he was not let alone, he would be a second Mohammed to this generation, and that it would be one gore of blood from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean; that like Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was, 'the Alcoran or the Sword,' so should it be eventually with us, 'Joseph Smith or the Sword" which was by an unreliable source. Even if Joseph did say that, it isn't what you are saying
@@dylanwilliams2202 He regarded himself as the New Muhammed. Had he not been killed, he would have used his Mormon Legion, then larger than the U.S. Army, to try and conquer the nation.
@@fantasia55 LOL the Nauvoo legion has never been larger than the USA army. The Nauvoo legion had 2500 while the US army had 8500. Joseph Smith also had no plans of conquering the US, running for president yes but no through the military. You need to get off the fanfiction and read real history books
Trent, could you do a video on megachurches/nondenoms and what you think of them? They seem to be creeping up more and stealing away people. And they have huge sunday attendances. How is that? How can we bring that into our churches?
It’s because they are all about entertaining, not true worship. I believe if Jesus visited one of them, he would take a whip out and knock the coffee shops over.
Well Sola scriptura I do submit to the church I attend. Now I disagree with people who do solo scriptura. meaning just me and my bible. That mind set can lead to cults and people thinking they got direct revelation. But no authority is higher then Gods word. Like we must honor our parents, it would be wrong for a person to reject their parents and say I only listen to God. And these people usually say, God told me to do that, another way to lead to a cult.
Joseph Smith literally- and unironically- referred to himself as the "American Muhammad". And like Muhammad, he wanted to establish a theocracy through conquest. Not even joking, Smith wanted to conquer the nascent United States. He nearly had the army to do it, too. It was larger than several states' militias combined
Other than relentlessly proclaiming that salvation comes only through Christ. Blessing our newborns in Christ’s name. Baptizing in Christ’s name. Conferring the Gift if the Holy Ghost in Christ’s name. Receiving blessings throughout our lives in Christ’s name. Marrying in Christ’s name. Worshipping in temples In Christ’s name. Opening and closing every Sunday worship in Christ’s name. Receiving weekly Sacraments in Christ’s name. And when we’re buried, our graves are dedicated in Christ’s name.
For any Christians that do not understand atheism; Please be aware that the way that Christians see Mormons is similar as the way atheists see Christians. Hope that helps somewhat.
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I was LDS for years. Became LDS after college, married a beautiful cradle LDS lady I met in a singles ward, served in the Bishopric, on the Stake High Council, and then started reading LDS history. Big mistake for my LDS faith!
It was a long journey, fraught with challenges to our married life, but God got hold of my life and my wife's heart . . . we entered Christianity in a Baptist Church, researched Church history and became Orthodox and are now "back home" practicing Catholics. Praise God!
Glory to God❤️☦️ I’m Orthodox and may God bless u
Wow. That’s a journey.
What a journey. Glad you’re here!!
Incredible journey and testimony.
Wow! God is so good.
I love videos about the LDS church. Such an interesting religion
Great video Trent
So the fact that you can “become like god” didn’t raise a hug red flag? Considering that was the first lie told to humans by none other than the adversary?
"I say, the Word of God became a man, so that you might learn from a man how to become a god." - Clement of Alexandria
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalms...also Jesus.
What the devil said was that Eve would be "like God," not that she would be a god. What he meant was that she, who until then in her innocence knew only good, would now know both good and evil the way God does. (Even though evil is a privation and can't properly be said to be known, nevertheless God knows it as a privation just as we do. The difference is that God knew it from all eternity, whereas we had to learn it through sinning.)
And that is exactly what happened. The devil did not lie. What he lied about was that she would not die, and it was her belief of that lie and concomitant unbelief in God's promise that she would die that brought about her and Adam's downfall.
@@AeliosArt but this doesn't mean what Mormons claim it means. It didn't to the church fathers.
@@jackdaw6359 And how do you think Mormons mean it? I'm LDS...I've seen other LDS make weird claims about becoming capital "G" Gods and running a bunch of planets and whatnot...but that's certainly not what any official doctrine or scripture states at all. I promise you that THAT specific conception of theosis is nothing but pure, unauthoritative speculation.
@@AeliosArt but its not just speculation. That is what early Christians and Jews would rightfully call blasphemy
J Smith just copied from other books he read growing up. Look up the plagiarism.
My wife is ex Mormon, coming from a Mormon family. Her family always treated me so kindly, way better than my own southern baptist family. Even after I converted to catholicism they still treat me well, and were more supportive of my conversion than my evangelical parents.
My experience lines up with that as well. The LDS family that I have are still incredibly friendly to me even after my conversion. -Kyle
So sorry for that. I have no idea why Protestants are such arrogant and unloving people. And I'm Protestant.
My LDS grandparents came to my Catholic baptism, first communion, & confirmation. The LDS side of my family has shown me incredible love & kindness.
Mormons tend to be very good people or very bad people with few in between.
Dennis Prager once said at a forum that the true test of any religion is how its people behave. I like Rory Sutherland's take "It aint crazy if it works"
As a former Mormon who read/ found his way home to the Catholic Church, I say very well done.
So you decided worshiping ritual human sacrifice was the way to go.
LOL
@@twitherspoon8954yawn ad infinitum.
@@twitherspoon8954that’s a weird way of describing what Christ commands us to do.
@@stevenlester985
_"...that’s a weird way of describing what Christ commands us to do."_
Are you denying that the literal worship of ritual human sacrifice is the core tent of Christianity? You know, that cross thing and John 3:16...
Paul created Christianity in 48 AD and this is how he put it:
Romans 8:32
"He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all."
1 Corinthians 5:7
"Christ our passover is sacrificed for us."
Romans 3:25
"God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement."
Romans 5:8
"God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us."
Hebrews 10:10
"We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ."
@@stevenlester985
_"...that’s a weird way of describing what Christ commands us to do."_
Should we expect God to know what the Ten Commandments are?
Which was Jesus's sixth commandment?
(Notice that Jesus lists only the secular commandments that make no mention of God):
1. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself:
If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. (Matthew 19:17-19)
2. Honor thy father and mother:
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honor thy father and mother. (Mark 10:19)
3. There was no sixth. Jesus listed only five commandments:
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother. (Luke 18:20)
Mitt Romney just disinvited Trent from his next BLM fundraiser.
Belief in the Catholic faith is not based on a single piece of evidence, such as the sincerity of the apostles, but on the totality of all the evidence. And it's overwhelming.
It all is j st one thing though.
The resurrection.
Issue is even if I grant you that Judaism is truth because we have equaled that miracle even today. It doesnt equal Sinai so you cant alter the covenant.
That and Jesus is in hell
@@walleras You have equaled that miracle? Please elaborate on what you mean by that.
I totally agree...................with the first part of your sentence.
The plural of anecdote is not fact. Many pieces of lousy evidence don’t add up to a convincing argument.
@@KestyJoe Do some research and then come back. Until then, I can't waste my time on you.
I too was a devout mormon. (6 generations). Found out that Joseph Smith wasn’t true. Left at 33 yrs old. Joined a baptist church and nondenominational for 20 plus yrs. Found the church fathers thru a Catholic who just invited me to look them up! I’ve studied for 6 yrs. Now just trying to get in the Catholic Church! 😀 not an easy task.😜🙏🏻 but trusting God through it. Please pray for me.🙏🏻❤️
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@@dylanwilliams2202We know all about your different worlds of heaven. Everyone's already learned the deets on your religion.
@@MeanBeanComedy _"We know all about your different worlds of heaven."_ LOL You say you know the "deets" of my religion but get them wrong. They aren't worlds but degrees in the same place. The Early Church Fathers even mentions them and gives details, would you like those quotes?
@dylanwilliams2202
You are being smug in your refutation over a technicality. The person you are responding to is correct in the ways that matter, and you aren't even correct. The celestial kingdom has degrees within it, but the Terrestrial and Telestial kingdoms are both described as completely different realms/places. At best, the issue of whether or not they are on different worlds would be unsettled and the idea that they are would be perfectly compatible with LDS theology.
I'll bite. What quotes are you referencing?
@@bearistotle2820 The very early Church Father, Papias understood that the Saviour's three degrees of 'fruitfulness' (Matthew 13:8, Matthew 13:23) corresponded to the Pauline three 'heavens' or 'glories' (1 Corinthians 15:41). According to him (as recorded in the first century account of Polycarp), the 'Elders' agreed that “Those who are deemed worthy of an abode in Heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendor of the City. For everywhere the Saviour will be seen, according as they shall be worthy who see him. But that there is this *distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixtyfold, and that of those who produce thirtyfold; for the first will be taken up into Heaven; the second class will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the City; and that on this account the Lord said, “In my house are many mansions”' for all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling place, even as his word says, that a share is given to all by the Father, according as each is or shall be worthy.”* That was also quoted by Irenaeus in his book.
Origen, in the early third century, revealed that the early Church interpreted this passage in essentially the same way “Our understanding of the passage indeed is, that the Apostle, *wishing to describe the great difference among those who rise again in glory,* i.e., of the saints, borrowed a comparison from the heavenly bodies, saying, "One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, another the glory of the stars” (Origen, De Principiis 2, Chapter 10 paragraph 2)
Clement of Alexandria also expressed belief in the three degrees, and echoed the Lord's revelation to Joseph Smith that those in the highest degree "are gods, even the sons of God." From Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 6 chapter 14 titled “degrees of heaven”, “Conformably, therefore, there are various abodes, according to the worth of those who have believed . . . . *These chosen abodes, which are three, are indicated by the numbers in the Gospel--the thirty, the sixty, the hundred.* And the perfect inheritance belongs to those who attain to "a perfect man," according to the image of the Lord . . . . To the likeness of God, then, he that is introduced into adoption and the friendship of God, to the just inheritance of the lords and gods is brought; if he be perfected, according to the Gospel, as the Lord Himself taught.”
Clement also preached that the three gradations of glory are procured by virtue of three types of actions: [Clement of Alexandria] reckons three kinds of actions, the first of which is . . . right or perfect action, which is characteristic of the perfect man and Gnostic alone, and raises him to the height of glory. The second is the class of . . . medium, or intermediate actions, which are done by less perfect believers, and procure a lower grade of glory. In the third place he reckons sinful actions, which are done by those who fall away from salvation.
Just like the Early Church Fathers In the vision of the kingdoms of glory to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon (Doctrine and Covenants section 76), the Lord revealed that 1 Corinthians 15:40-41 is not just a comparison of earthly bodies with heavenly, but also a reference to the fact that there are three different major levels of glory to which a body can be resurrected:
“And the glory of the celestial is one, even as the glory of the sun is one. And the glory of the terrestrial is one, even as the glory of the moon is one. And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differeth from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world.” (D&C 76:96-98)
I was a Mormon for 18 years now I’m a Orthodox Christian. I respect my Catholic brothers and sisters
Thank you, brother and may God bless you.
@@bman5257 ❤️
Id say I feel closer to Catholicism or orthodoxy than any other form of Christianity
@@jhoughjr1 yes. I use to be a Protestant too. The reformation opened up to door these restorationist groups like the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses
Love to all our Orthodox brothers and sisters ❤
God bless 🙏🏼
Great video! I also suggest you to do more on Seventh-day adventism, it would be great!
I’ll pass that suggestion along! -Kyle
Look up jimmy akin , he did mormonism , seventh day adventists etc etc
@@TheCounselofTrent Cool
@@noircc He did Ellen White, not SDA
The Egyptologist info on the above video needs to be updated. As Paul Gregersen demonstrates that Joseph Smith was right, the Egyptologists were wrong.
I was a Latter-day Saint for 3 years, now I make videos exploring the Catholic faith - This is great!!
YOOOO!
I was LDS as well, went on a mission and everything, and am now Catholic.
@@bearistotle2820 No way!? Where did you serve?
@@bearistotle2820you're still alive!
Nice to see you again my friend haha
I meant to ask you years ago if your name had anything to do with a certain tall man who now lives in Idaho.
@@JacobHerring8 Knoxville, TN!
@RL-te6cy Oh yeah, hi! Unfortunately I know nothing of tall men in Idaho lol
Ah yes, Mormonism. It’s the Bible paid DLC Expansion pass, don’t you know?
Yeah, I'm getting tired of the microtransactions...;)
Oof, Kwaku M. El is so freaking abrasive that he makes James White look downright cordial by comparison. Coming from an LDS family, I know the vast majority of LDS people are wonderful, but man, I cannot stand listening to Kwaku.
Knew some lovely Mormon folks in college. Friendly, well dressed, and pretty fun to hang out with. Eventually I did find the Catholic center so slowly stopped seeing them, but they weren’t too disappointed about it.
Even went with them to their temple down in Houston, which was…. Different for me. One of the guys told me he actually “stood in” for his deceased relatives there, something like 10 times he was ‘baptized’ in their place. Still don’t really understand how that became a practice with Mormons, but I feel that way about a lot of non-Catholic practices.
At the end of the day though, I do feel a bit sad for Mormons/LDS folks. Yes they seem happy and all that, but I just can’t understand how they can reconcile such strange ideas when compared to basic history. Catholics get the same accusation of course, but most of those accusations can be refuted with solid evidence if the accuser is willing to argue in good faith. Mormonism though, I just don’t see the same level 🤷♀️
It's a great question. Paul instructed disciples re:this practice in Corinthians chapter 15. Reconciliation comes with study and understanding. it actually makes sense if you try and figure out how someone could be condemned to hell for not having an opportunity to be baptized...which incidentally is how the practice of infant baptism began.
Why would God condemn innocent babies to hell, limbo, etc while a sinful baptized person is saved? Isn't this far harder to reconcile than the belief that everyone will have an opportunity to accept or reject the gospel of Jesus Christ and have a baptism performed on their behalf?
Human beings are loveable... I would never wish hell on anyone. Jesus saw each human being be a born innocent baby, they just grew up corrupted.
@@HaleStorm49Paul mentioning something is FAR from him supporting something.
Baptism does not make sense after death. If they are dead, they either get saved or not. If not, no prayer or ritual from third persons will help them.
@@crusaderACR Alonso he is not _mentioning_ it, he's instruction them in correct doctrine. If you reject it that's your choice.
@@HaleStorm49 Have you read the chapter? You cited the whole chapter so I guessed you did. He was not in the whole section teaching practices. It was debunking! Baptism was already discussed in other letters and it was clear the why and how.
Read it well: In that section he is first criticizing a specific heresy that believed that the unbaptized are annihilated at death - their soul just vanishes, nothing after. Jehovah's Witnesses is a modern heresy that advocates this, I believe.
Right after he says basically if there's no soul, what are you baptizing anyway?
The whole argument is about resurrection after death being FUNDAMENTAL to Christianity. "If Jesus was not resurrected, YOUR FAITH IS FUTILE"
So brother, much what we know of baptism is all over the Bible, it's just not in that part. The whole Bible makes it extremely clear: Salvation is YOUR responsibility. You cannot save others by proxy!
Why can't I then take a roster of the world's dead from the last 100 years and baptize them? Damn, let me baptize Hitler real quick, he'd go straight to heaven with no effort of his own!
Catholicism is the one true religion and church.
Acts 5:38-39!
Here is a "very interesting" statement (from a "high up" Catholic leader) that you might find interesting. This is what he said when he came to Utah (and visited with the lds church members) :
“Many years ago a learned man, a member of the Roman Catholic Church, came to Utah and spoke from the stand of the Salt Lake Tabernacle. I became well-acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen languages at his tongue’s end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy. One day he said to me: ‘You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don’t even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that’s all there is to it. The Protestants haven’t a leg to stand on. For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the apostolic succession from St. Peter, as we claim, there is no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism’s attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the gospel in latter days.’” (LeGrand Richards, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder [Deseret Book Co., 1950], pp. 3-4.)
The Joseph Smith and Mohammed stories are so eerily similar.
I’m glad someone else noticed this
Lutheran Satire made a video about it a while ago, it's called "a latter day re-gift" from about 11 years ago, they did a great job on it.
Especially that part where the first converts roamed and pillaged the continent trying to take over the world. So eerie.
@HaleStorm49 You are correct that as false, demon inspired religions go Islam is way more successful - a billion adherents vs 16 million. But it's early days for Mormonism. Maybe in 1500 years we'll be talking about the Mormonite Empire of the 2200s.
@@HaleStorm49Shhh... religion of peace...
I too became Catholic because the God of the Bible is clearly not the one Joseph Smith lays out. “Hear, O’Israel, the lord your God is lord ALONE.” That being said, they way Mormons behave is often more Christian than most Christians. Good people even though the beliefs are deeply flawed.
Well said, LDS are probably the most Christ-like people I've met.
Very nice people, very interesting beliefs🤔
What's interesting about the LDS Church is that they claim they're the "restored" Church of the Apostolic Age. Yet, when you read the Apostolic Fathers (Ignatius mainly) and the Didache, we can see that the Church of the Apostolic Age has really no theological similarities. I recommend to every Mormon to read the Didache.
I'm just really curious how they explain their denial of pentecost
Same, what I was taught about Catholicism and the early years of Christianity during my Mormon childhood is completely unrelated to reality. When I started studying actual history my Mormon “testimony” got knee-capped.
What about the "12" apostles (?) If Christ church continued (after the death of the apostles) why weren't the apostles replaced? (I think the councils of nicea and others) sort of made the catholic church more of a "state" religion (with pieces of truth, but also to keep it under control, shroud it in mysticism and nebualties) also taking away "core" doctrines (which was proven) like the concept of our "Pre-mortal" lives (meaning we lived with God and Jesus) before our births and we just weren't "snapped into existence". As per the "12" have you ever seen the Chosen series? (really good, I highly recommend it).
As a Latter-day Saint/ long time fan of yours, I must applaud you for the high quality video. Though I obviously have my disagreements with what you've presented, overall it's a very well researched/ considered critique of our faith that deserves serious attention. Quite often people who criticize Mormonism do so from a blatantly misinformed perspective. It's refreshing to see somebody take our faith seriously enough to actually do their homework. Well done!
Have you read the CES Letter yet?
@@Jay_in_Japan Yeah. Back in like 2015 (kinda old news). Please tell me you don't think the CES letter is the pinnacle of critiques with regards to Mormonism? Dan Vogel for example (an actual scholar unlike Jeremy) is a much better source
@@Jay_in_Japan And have you read the CES letter response by Jim Bennett?
@@lukehanson_ First I've heard of it, I'll check it out. Thanks
Thanks Ethan. You saved me from writing out a comment. Although Trent is incorrect in quite a number of points I do appreciate him taking more time than most to research.
13:12 yes unfortunately they try to hijack the term “Theosis”. Without the proper understanding of what the Church Fathers meant
My grandpa was a cradle Catholic and quite the character. When he was getting on in years he used to answer Mormons by saying, "Oh you're here to talk to me about the Angel Moron!" Playing it off as senility.
Imagine being there when he meets Moroni in the next life. Wonder how he'll play it off.
@@HaleStorm49it’s impossible to meet a being who does not exist.
Another former Mormon that became Catholic. Although Orthodox rather than Roman. I enjoy most of your stuff. Funny the way time changes things for us. If you were to say 10 years ago I’d be offering up prayers to Mary and the Saints I’d say you were crazy. My soul is finally at peace now. Love my Roman brothers!
What do you mean ?
Either you are part of the holy, saint, unique and universal Catholic church in one of its 24 rites (Roman(or Latin), and the 23 eastern rites (Maronite, Gueze, Greek-Catholique, Melkite, Syro-Malabar, ....) which indeed have an Orthodox faith.
Or you are part of the shismatic church that call itself orthodox and you are thus not part of the Catholic Church.
Well the official name of the church is “The Orthodox Catholic Church” and we say the Creed every week expressing the belief in one Catholic Church and talk to every Orthodox priest and they will say we are Catholic but what do I know?
@@Circle_Breaker73 Are you on communion with Rome ?
Joseph Smith reminds me of Mohammad
Man, I'm so stoked for this video. I used to be mormon and I'm reading about Catholicism. I've been waiting for Trent to do a video about this. I'm going to save it for tomorrow after work as a reward for making it through another shift. Lol. Love your videos.
If you'd like a place to ask questions about Catholicism, I highly recommend checking out crossthetiber.org
There's a lot of good folks there that are happy to answer questions and point you to great resources. -Kyle
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@@dylanwilliams2202you're not a good listener
@@waseemhermiz7565 Oh no I am, I just don't care about garbage takes that can easily be refuted.
@@dylanwilliams2202your “prophet”literally pulled “revelations” out of his ass left right and center for his own convenience lol. Why would I follow such a phony religion?
Jimmy Akin's episode of Joseph Smith is also very good.
I am a former mormon, I am now an Orthodox Christian.
EXCELLENT explanation Trent. Thank you for this fantastic material to educate all - not only Catholics.
The Mormon Great Apostasy is even worse than stated here. In Mormon Theology, the Church must people in the Office of Apostle, who have what they call the "Melchizedek priesthood." This is distinct from the "Aaronic priesthood" which they believe their bishops, elders, etc hold. The Melchizedek priesthood is necessary for ordaining new people; Aaronic priests cannot ordain. So the loss of the Apostles means the loss of the Melchizedek preisthood.
What this means for the Mormon Great Apostasy is that as soon as the last apostle dies without anyone in that office, you cannot ordain anyone else, meaning the church dies in one generation. You may note that none of the early church writings mention any sort of distress about the lack of an apostle office leading to the loss of valid ordination.
This leads to one of three potential conclusions. Either 1) the sin/heresy of the Church was absolutely irrelevant to the Great Apostasy, because even if they had not sinned the Church would have still lost priesthood authority from the death of the apostles; 2) the Church had gone almost entirely apostate while the Apostles were still alive such that they decided not to ordain any new Apostles (this would seem to contradict the existence of Titus, 1 and 2 Timothy, and the Philadelphian Church in Revelation 3:7-12); or 3) the Apostles were completely unaware that an office of Apostle was necessary to continue the priesthood.
To this last point, some Mormon apologists explain the loss of Apostles by saying they were unable to appoint successors due to getting martyred. Setting aside that Mormons believe John the Apostle is still alive so he should be able to ordain, the actions of the Apostles are much more consonant with a vision of spreading throughout the world ordaining bishops to continue succession, than needing to keep Apostle Office alive and sending out missionaries whose death would not cause the death of the entire Church.
You need to read Hugh Nibley, who wrote about this 70 years ago. Apostles and Bishops in Early Christianity.
Option 3. They were aware because they were Apostles and Christ taught them what was to occur. There are several verses in the NT that reference both the apostasy and the restoration of "all things" which includes things that have never been taught before in the last dispensation before Christ returns.
Latter-day Saint here: Thanks for being respectful.
Thanks for watching
Please keep these episodes coming! For some reason finding a lot more Mormons than I realized in my life
I'm LDS but I found this video very interesting and informative. You earned a sub.
Thanks for hearing him out. Even if you disagree, I think it is always important to hear out objections. God bless.
Love the line from the s t.the voyage home. Spock is mind melting with Gracie the blue whale is her name in the tank. Kirk to the whale specialist: " He did too much L.D.S in the sixtys. ". Thats what Roseanne Barr says too
@@ClobinWilliams So true. God bless you too.
Just this morning was telling my husband about Medjugorje, the Marian apparition...he wanted to know to whom, to Joseph Smith??? No, Hunny. The Virgin Mary did not appear to Joseph Smith.
🫢
It is interesting to note that the 19th century had many groups that tried to get back to what they thought was the “original NT church,” and rejected all other existing denominations. The Reconstructionists were one such Christian group.
"We're the original"
>Gives zero evidence as to how they have the essence of Christianity
About the necessity of monotheism, let me tell you one thing I found out. If you want to make a Hindu really angry, call him/her a polytheist. They will tell you that all the gods and goddesses to whom they pay honour are just aspects of the one and only God. There cannot be more than one, because the Lord, Ishwara, Bhagavan, is the Self of the universe. Polytheism always tends to this direction - you can find the same tendency in Greek philosophy.
InspiringPhilosophy's "The Case for Ancient Monotheism Documentary" video also sheds light on evidence for monotheism amongst aborigenal tribes from Australia.
@dboan; so you're ok with Catholic Church history?
And Trent i would love to have an inter-faith discussion about our faiths.
Former member but it was the same plates just 116 pages were not translated. The plates were actually Brass. The reason I became Catholic is the fact the Book of Mormon teaches of Mary's sinless nature and in Transubstantiation, then in Doctrine and Covenants 20 Joseph Smith rejects Transubstantiation. My question then is if Mormonism is true, then why the conflict of scriptural teachings? Catholicism never conflicts with the teachings of the Apostles and Prophets. I then studied the keys of the kingdom, each key pointed me to the Catholic Church.
Your arguments are elementary. You're regurgitating what has already been debunked. Lol
Wow i didnt know the post-gold plates stuff. I thought they were Christians plus gold plates story. The "God was one of us" bit turns them into something else entirely.
No unmoved mover.
You should probably get some clarification from an actual member.
@@clearstonewindows
Ex member here. LDS are not Christians.
@@jeffs4483 We all know your Ex. Every post you make says "I have an axe to gride" You don't need to say it.
A shoot out? You're be8ng dishonest. He was captive and men came to murder him. That's not a shoot out.
“The mormons believed they’ve restored to doctrines of the early church”
Ahh yes, the fruits of the Protestant heresy alive and well
I wouldn't go as far as considering them as even Protestants but as a separate creature altogether, mimicking hints of Christian beliefs like a camouflage but ultimately different.
Mormons arent even protestants. Mormons deny the Trinity - the most important and pivotal belief of the Christian faith as it centers around who God is in essence. Since they deny the Blessed Trinity, a belief found in ancient Christianity amidst some heresies brewing, they can never have valid baptisms. Mormons are Christian and I do not say this gleefully. It's a tragedy.
Lol👍☺️
Hey protestants are Christians , got to give them that but Mormons... 😅
Protestants would say Catholicism is more similar to Mormonism in how both add things to the Gospel.
Trent and Laura uploading on the same day? Yes, please! 😂
Great video format, as a Catholic I would love to see a "3 reasons I'm not Eastern Orthodox" video next.
Read the book, Russia and Universal Church. Vladimir was a russian orthodox who converted to Catholicism, he was one of the brightest minds of the east.
It would be cool to have a part 2 where Trent addresses some of the rebuttals he's received by the Mormons in the comment section, especially those quoting scripture about the exaltation of men and the Trinity.
I think It's an interesting conversation for everyone. As a former member of the Mormon church going through RCIA, I've found that there is an abundance of Catholicism vs Protestantism discussion, but there's not a whole lot of in-depth critique of Mormonism from the Catholic prospective.
I understand Trent can't do a 3 hour podcast, but addressing some counter arguements and interpretations of the Bible that Mormons commonly give would be a fitting companion to this video.
I too was Mormon and was baptized Catholic just over a year ago! I had this same conversation with my husband who is a cradle catholic. He thinks the reason why there is not a lot of Catholic vs. Mormon videos out there rebutting the Mormon faith is bc a lot of Catholics have bigger issues with protestant faiths and wanting to bring the church back to its fullness since the schisms rather than the Mormon church which is not even part of the Christian denomination. The YT page God Loves Mormons has some great content but it does come from a Protestant perspective but I find it is still great information as it uses biblical evidence to explain different topics. Wish more Catholics would talk about it but not many Catholics have a good understanding of Mormonism. I find it’s hard to unless you grew up in it.
@@alyssaprice2511 I also figured Mormonsim is small potatoes in the scheme of things, but it's sad to see that when many people leave Mormonism they end up Atheist. My sister has also decided she doesn't believe in the LDS church (we sort of went on this journey together) and I fear she's gone down the Athiest tract.
So much of Mormon criticism includes progressive athiest ideology (Mormon Stories). I wish there was more targetted outreach from Catholics to Mormons.
I'm in Utah, so there's plenty of former member's teaching and going through RCIA at the parish I attend, so there's at least some community, but not a whole lot of online community.
@@sirshramp5934 I couldn’t agree more! Majority of people who leave the Mormon faith become agnostic or atheist. Small % become Christian.
I was invited to go on the Mormon Stories podcast and turned it down because I do not align with John’s lack of religion. He does have great information when it comes to the falseness of Mormonism but gets it terribly wrong with promoting agnosticism and atheism.
Yes, not many Catholics talk about the issues of Mormonism online and I think it’s a shame especially since people’s souls are at stake here.
I think it can be intimidating since Mormonism is a very hard religion to understand since it is a lot of mental gymnastics and a lot of the terminology is the same as Christianity but their words have different meanings.
It’s been on my heart to create a community online for this type of content that you and I are talking about so I may have to give it some serious thought. I wish there was more information from a Catholic perspective when I was leaving Mormonism.
@@sirshramp5934Shameless Popery did the series you asked for
@alonso19989 Yeah! I came accrossed him a few days before he did that episode on Trent's show.
I really like Joe's approach. Exactly what I was looking for!
I grew up in a Mormon family. All my childhood I was told how Joseph Smith was a prophet that restored the true Church. Then as an adult I really started studying things like Doctrine & Covenants, and started feeling doubts. One day I watched a PBS documentary where I learned for the first time that blacks had been barred from the priesthood and the LDS prophet at the time, Gordon Hinckley, described the meeting where they made the decision. It caused a crisis of faith because the priesthood is a huge part of Mormonism. Wouldn't God have made such a big detail right from the beginning of a "restoration" of the Church? Then if you start digging into who Joseph Smith was you could really start to see the manipulation he exerted on people. Mormons are generally good people but they have been misled.
A major flaw of Mormonism is how they try to hide their history such as the Black issue.
This is very convenient, I just was talking to my SIL who has starting going to a mormon church because the missionaries are nice
Hey Adam, this nice serpent showed me some great fruit…
My inlaws are Mormon and I've always said that people join the church for the social structure, not the doctrines.
The social structure is amazing. Truly nice people with lots of activities going on, and excellent support of families.
But the doctrines........ 😬
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimalyou can't have one without the other...as most other churches have demonstrated while turning their nose at LDS theology.
@@HaleStorm49 no, there are very very many nice Protestant and Catholic churches too.
With lots of families building community, good structure, members helping each other grow in virtue.
So you can have the social structure without Mormon doctrine.
My point was that Mormons have definitely got that going for them....and that's what's attracting people cause the doctrine is illogical.
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimal thinking illogically is like bullying. You can see it everywhere except in the mirror. Jesus taught us that it's not the seed it's the soil.
If you do debate a Mormon please do not debate Kwaku El. (the Mormon from the clip you showed debating the protestants) He is a random party planner who only gets invited to do debates because he has a social media presence and is willing.
I would recommend Robert S. Boylan who is a graduate of the Pontifical University of Ireland, and has published a few books on LDS thought. Behold the Mother of My Lord: Towards a Mormon Mariology was probably my favorite. He also used to be Roman Catholic, so he would be equipped to talk about differences in theology with out confusing common terms and words used between the two churches to say different things.
Thanks for the video. I was born and raised LDS. I also served a mission and taught about the Book of Mormon for two years. I'm 35 now and, for a variety of reasons that would be too long to list here, recently came to the conclusion that the book isn't what I thought it was/what it claims to be.
That conclusion has left me reeling because of it's implications, so I've been engaged in listening to a lot of apologetics recently while I try and piece my faith back together. Your channel has been refreshing and I appreciate you taking time to touch on this. Consider this a request for you to do more videos on the subject.
thanks for your testimony!
Biggens - As an active LDS member, I tell people that if their church had a better value proposition I would leave tomorrow. it's essentially a trade. I am promised exaltation, eternal marriage, temple worship, covenant blessings, spiritual inspiration, and physical protection...which I believe I have received in spades. What do I get if I trade that in to become Catholic, or join an online church like Apologia - or become agnostic/atheist? Where is the best long-term ROI for myself and the kids...do you have kids?
Were you able to trade up for something better? I'd be interested in a similar trade.
@MBiggens, I was a devout Latter-Day Saint my entire life. And when I say devout, I mean I was all in. Then I learned about Sacred Tradition and the Church fathers. I eventually came to the conclusion that either Christ's church was lost and had to be restored, or it had always been on earth just as he promised (Ephesians 5:29-30; Matthew 16:18; John 14:16, 18). It was at this point that I realized I had to address my concerns regarding the JST. In short, I found the Bible to be the most/only reliable book of scripture. Eventually after much studying and prayer, I was baptized into the Catholic church 2 months ago, at age 36. I wish you the best in your journey and I hope you will soon join us!
@@HaleStorm49 Shouldn't you believe true things rather than comfortable things?
@@rhamsesmartinez5007 Thanks for sharing! I've actually been attending mass for the past couple of months and plan to start RCIA in around September. My wife went through a similar process and has recently been baptized at a non-denominational evangelical church. It puts us in a strange situation, but I trust that God will do His own work in us and guide us to where we're supposed to be as long as we seek sincerely. Best wishes to you moving forward as well!
Joseph Smith: this payrus was written by Abraham and it talks about Genesis.
The Papyrus: mummification for dummies
Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii it represents Abraham
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii Paul has no formal teaching in history let alone hieroglyphics or Egyptology so I think I will trust the actual educated people over someone who has made LSD induced videos on UA-cam
@@davidlarssen15HAHAHA, priceless. Paul doesn't need to be an Egyptologist. As Joseph Smith, by revelation, translated the counterfeit (facsimiles) back to the true meaning.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii So he needs to have no formal education in a subject to refute those who do this is why Mormonism is false they put aside all logic and irrefutable facts and just have faith because your heart says its true. JEREMIAH 17:9 - The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
Tell me, without any doctrine from the LDS church, how does God save those that never heard about the gospel but are still under His spoken law that no one will enter the kingdom of God without baptism?
As an ex-Mormon and now (Evangelical Protestant) Christian, I would love to see further dialogue or debate between you and LDS apologists. I always really appreciate your reasoned approach even when I disagree with you.
I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We have scholars that give great answers to all these issues which Trent raises. I appreciate his honesty and sincerity. I once left my faith once after learning about these issues. My favorite scripture though is proverbs 3:5 which says to trust in the Lord with all thine art and lean not on thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths.” I’ve done that and I’ve overcome the craftiness of men and answered all my questions and issues. Nevertheless I get why people can’t get over these issues and I still love y’all. I enjoy the channel and find all these discussions interesting.
“Great answers”? Hmmm, I’m gonna disagree with you there, as an ex-Mormon who went through the process of hoping lds apologists could provide answers. Their answers are laughable. Sorry, they are shooting blanks, friend.
@@ChaChaDancin Have you inquired of the Lord?
Scholar erudition and rethoric have nothing to do with the truth!!!
@@ChaChaDancin I can answer them! (or at least try) No apologetics needed. (thanks and let me know)
Hey, Trent! Really love your channel! Always in for a treat when I watch your videos!
I don't think Trent understands enough about LDS theology to do a good enough job of deconstructing their beliefs. Watching someone obliterate a strawman is pretty unimpressive.
Also, anybody got a map of the Garden of Eden? No? Why is that ok again?
The Book of Abraham isn't the keystone of lds faith but I understand wanting to use it to discredit Joseph smith as a prophet. However, I think it's a fairly weak argument due to many factors regarding original documents, aprocryphal validations, and ancient literary tropes. It's just not the gotcha people make it out to be.
Reason 4: ☕️
Apparently, there’s some controversy on this one in LDS circles. I brought this one up at work once mentioning that since I grew up around a lot of LDS (my grandfather’s sister married one of Orrin Hatch’s nephews), I thought having caffeine-free Dr Pepper around all the time was normal. When I mentioned that the LDS members can’t have caffeine, an LDS coworker, and BYU grad, quickly corrected me on this. All of that is anecdotal, obviously, but there are at least some Mormons that are ok with caffeine. -Kyle
Reason 4: it was revealed to me in a dream
@@TheCounselofTrentyeah, caffeine is nowhere mentioned as something you shouldn't have
@@lukehanson_Am I correct in thinking that Doctrine and Covenants prohibits consuming hot drinks? I read it 30 years ago when I was a Catholic missionary in Japan and came across Mormon missionaries on several occasions. I thought I recalled reading that prohibition.
@@ConnieRossini Yes, but prophets have clarified that means coffee and tea. Hot chocolate and similar drinks have always been fine
Kudos to you for reading all these Mormon books. I can’t have this stuff living in my head. The Mormon faith is so confusing with no logical path. Thank you for trying to make sense of all of this for us.
Who created satan then?
It's confusing because you are getting it from people who are confused. Not the best method for truth seeking
CatholicChickAZ, everything new can be confusing. If you keep learning the truth it will be less confusing, until it is not confusing at all.
Hey! Mormon here. You've made a lot of great content here and I've loosely followed you for a while now. Almost every single time I see a headline about Mormonism, it's almost a guarantee it's full of nonsense and misinformation. So honestly it was a relief to see that you actually attempted to depict our faith as accurately as possible. It's not hard to tell when someone has actually taken the time, and when they haven't. We tend to be an easy target or punching bag for larger Christendom so many tend to try to get away with half-baked research. I can tell you're acting in good faith though and I appreciate that.
There are a few mistakes/ambiguities I'd like to correct if I may:
- You said he had many spiritual wives, some of which were 14. For one, only a single one of these "wives" was 14, which was not considered wrong or especially unusual in his day. But further on that, she was only sealed to him for "eternity only". It may be helpful to understand how sealings worked at that time to understand why many of his "wives" were not wives in the way we picture them as sexual partners.
- You said after Martin Harris lost the 116 pages Smith translated from other plates. That's not really true as there was only one set of plates. Instead he was told to simply continue translating from the same set rather than going back. Perhaps that's how you meant it, but I think at the very least that can be confusing for some.
- On plurality of gods: We believe in a plurality of gods, sure...but only officially as a lowercase "g" god (which is how all publications spell it). Some Mormons speculate on "infinite regression" (God having his own Father and so on) but the Church itself does not embrace or teach that doctrine. It does embrace a version of theosis, however. But there is no official doctrine at all about multiple capital "G" Gods. Many LDS (including myself) do not agree with this speculative idea of infinite regress or multiple "Gods". Many of my arguments (though not all) are the same as the ones you gave. In fact the way you describe the Jewish concept of Yahweh is spot on my conception and the way I understand LDS doctrine.
- On the King Follett Discourse, a few things of note which are somewhat compounding: 1) It is not as a whole considered doctrine. Prophets are human and sometimes speak for God and sometimes speak for themselves...fallibly. This was a funeral discourse, not an official prophecy. That doesn't mean we can reject it outright, but rather it is not necessarily a reliable source of doctrine. 2) There was never an official transcript but many and there appear to be some disagreements on some of these especially controversial points of God once supposedly being mortal. 3) Many interpret the discourse to suggest God himself was exalted from his own mortality. That doctrine is not taught nor embraced by the Church, but is simply the result of speculation of rank-and-file members without authority to declare so.
- This one is nitpicky but...Lamanites is LAY-man-ahyts, and idk how you pronounced Zarahemla but it's just as it's spelled lol. That's more just a personal peeve haha.
Those are mostly doctrinal points I think need clarification. There are lots of things I could push back on regarding geography or God just being some superpowered alien, etc. but that's a whole discussion of its own. I hope these points can be helpful.
Again I can at least appreciate you critiquing and addressing this in good-faith and even-handedly. I'd be happy to discuss these topics with you, although I'd highly recommend you reach out to the channel "Thoughtful Faith" who is actually far more familiar with Catholicism and philosophy/theology more broadly as well as doing video discussions and debates. He's done thorough discussions on Trinitarianism and Creatio Ex Nihilo which you brought up before as well. Since you've given some critique of Mormonism, I hope you're willing to engage with some good-faith responses.
Despite some disagreements, I respect what you do 🙏🏻
Thanks for taking the time to write this! Good-faith criticism is always welcome here. I'll bring this one to Trent's attention. -Kyle
Still creepy, even if it is only one woman age 14!
@@TheCounselofTrent Much appreciated!
@@glennyskitchen9491 Understandable but again a few points on that:
1) Such young marriages were not uncommon for the early 19th century.
2) Her "marriage" to Joseph Smith was a sealing for "eternity only". Meaning there was little to no chance they actually had sexual relations.
3) Her parents were the ones that initiated and approved the whole thing with her approval as well. Consent all the way around.
4) Helen Mar Kimball was her name. She actually went on to very much defend her marriage and the institution of polygamy later in life. She was one of the strongest defenders of it.
All of which seems to me rebuts the "creepiness" of it.
G'day Brother Aelios, have you read the CES Letter yet?
Nothing screams "I have no sound and valid argument" like repeating the same word or phrase over and over with a smug smile on your face. You could tell the Mormon individual on the podcast was full of it. Thanks for calling out all this stuff!
They are programmed and don't use reason to argue. It is obvious when you try to speak to the Mormons that come to your door.
It is a fact that the non Lds wouldn't answer his question, talked over him, that was not a discussion it was a one sided lecture, and I am Catholic.
@@1Andelina1 His question was irrelevent to the point (as Trent discussed) and he was merely trying to overpower the other person.
Latter-Day Saints generally don’t self-identify as “henotheists.” Although we believe in multiple persons with distinct physical bodies, our scripture still describes this as one God. This was an unfair representation you made.
Biggest reason for me is that Mormons don't believe Christ is God. They believe he is a being created by God. John 1:1 tells us that isn't true.
We believe Christ is God
@@spideyN8R Wrong. They do not believe Jesus was God in the flesh but was a preexisting spirit child of God the Father and Heavenly Mother. In fact, they believe that Jesus and Satan are both spirit children of God and are brothers. These beliefs are not consistent with believing that Christ is God. Mormonism simply isn't Christianity. It's something else.
1:45 "Shoot out" implies mutual combat. Joseph Smith was being martyred for being a true prophet. It was not mutual combat.
Trent talking Thomism always makes my day.
5:00 this is what I mean, it's like comparing an Apple to a Potato and saying they're the same. Dude made up his own religion! FACEPALM
“The Apostasy That Wasn’t” was an excellent book by Rod Bennett.
Yes!🙏🏻😀
The Great Apostasy is more nuanced and kinder to Catholics than what you described. Latter-Day Saints do not believe there has ever been an absolute loss of people who strived to do everything in their power to maintain Christ’s power. Clearly there has been extreme devotion to Christianity throughout history ever since Jesus came to Earth. The only parts of the Great Apostasy that Latter Day Saints believe were absolute were the break in apostolic succession due to lack of transference of Priesthood keys by laying on of hands and a lack of continuing revelation.
Latter-Day Saints believe priesthood authority must be transferred by laying on of hands as a saving ordinance similar to baptism, endowment, and temple sealing. Although there may be historical evidence of apostles attempting to delegate responsibilities in a church hierarchy, there is not evidence that priesthood keys received from Christ by imposition of hands, or laying on of hands, were transferred by laying on of hands to successors before the original apostles were killed.
Ultimately the validity of this belief stems back to whether or not Joseph Smith was telling the truth. The best way to determine that is to read the Book of Mormon. Most naysayers don’t put in the time. Just like there is no “proof” of God’s existence, there is no “proof” that the Book of Mormon is true. If you understood the Book of Mormon, you would admit that it is not logically disprovable. Academically, there is plenty of literary evidence that the Book of Mormon is true. There is very little archaeological evidence, but that is the inherent lacking nature of American archaeology. If one wants to have good evidence, what better evidence than from God? Discerning answers from the Holy Ghost is by definition subjective, but all human knowledge is by definition subjective. All that said, having profound spiritual experiences is possible. My knowledge is by definition imperfect, but I know the Book of Mormon is true.
I've watched a number of your videos. And appreciate your background and efforts.
This is my feedback on this topic: You should have LDS scholars on to discuss these topics. What you present is, by necessity with time allowed, very superficial (and at least slightly sensationalized and caricatured).
I'll provide names and videos of 3 competent LDS scholars who could help you and your audience better understand LDS positions on the 3 topics -- topics you share as reasons to not be Mormon.
I'll link each of the 3 LDS scholars to a video on that exact topic. Each below LDS scholar has spoken on many subjects, but are very familiar with the specific point you mention in your video.
1) Blake Ostler on the nature of the Trinity/LDS Godhead: ua-cam.com/video/-uJc-hp2NSs/v-deo.html
2) Mark Wright on BoM geography: ua-cam.com/video/FlAy1cDPLMo/v-deo.html
3) Robert Keller on the Great Apostasy. Keller, a former Presbyterian minister who converted to the LDS Church, speaks about authority and religion. He speaks about the greatness of the Bible, and the great things about other faiths: ua-cam.com/video/8K0bIejLaV8/v-deo.html
For good measure, I'll add in this LDS Egyptologist and Book of Abraham scholar:
Bonus: John Gee on the Book of Abraham: ua-cam.com/video/i5zdKRLQV-8/v-deo.html
Appreciate your scholarship and efforts! It's a tough job to tackle an unfamiliar subject. These LDS scholars will surely help your audience better understand Latter-day Saints, their history, and teachings.
@@ChristianRescue Oster is an LDS philosopher, attorney. Not trinitarian.
The thumbnail image for this video strikes me as a but shameful. Do you really need to make a caricature of others' deeply held beliefs.
Thanks for this Trent. Had some Mormons come over and they wanted to come back tomorrow to explain their case more. Watching this and reading other material so I can be the best Catholic witness possible, and help kindly point them in the right direction and defend the True Faith.
I remember watching that debate between Dr. White and Kwaku. The “do you believe God can do miracles” argument is so disingenuous.
You gave a poor history of the papyrus scrolls from which the Book of Abraham was translated. There is no evidence that the scrolls from which the book was translated weren’t destroyed just because there is evidence that some of the scrolls were recovered. Latter-Day Saints don’t believe the source text comes from these facsimiles you showed on the screen. The facsimiles are their own thing.
Joseph smith was unfathomably based
Serve others , repent of all your sins , try to be perfect, keep going until you ‘feel’ the Holy Ghost , ask the lord wanting to only do his will and not your own , make it a yes or no question , if you feel the Holy Ghost after you ask - your idea is true ! don’t ask in hate , don’t fear ….your video needs to be more scriptural read ‘a marvelous work and wonder by Lagrand Richard’s ‘ Believe me ! - the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints can stand any test ! I have something for you to understand … suppose I was to speak to you but all you saw was pictures of what I was saying !
As a former Catholic and a current member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we absolutely believe in God. We are all God’s children. Deification or Theosis is as old as Christianity. This doesn’t make God any less of an eternal being and the creator of the universe.
A dozen wives is a “reward”?! You sure about that?
THANKS TRENT! We had a Mormon Nanny, who made many of these points. This was extremely helpful.
I live in Mormon ville and I feel like I'm surrounded by a Cult... how hard is it to do some research (talking to the Mormons)
Very refreshing to hear good faith disagreements. Usually people will just smear and attack strawman arguments.
Yes. The LDS Church believes that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are One Eternal God.
Please pray for my godmother, for whom I'm named. She married a Mormon when i was a child and she left the Church. A couple years ago she revealed to me that the Catholic Church had hurt her "very badly." I didn't get a chance to ask her what happened, but around the same time i learned that young girls in her age bracket, who were all from families of little means, had been abused by the parish priest. This was before Vatican II, for what it's worth. Many of the girls were being raised by their dads after their mothers died, or their mothers were very ill and hospitalized for some length of time. Being a farming community, the mothers didn't work outside the home, but contributed majorly to the family's income because everybody in the family worked on the farm. My godmother was such a girl. She had been sent to live at the rectory for a time, according to some (as noted, I didn't have a chance to ask her). There was a convent on the other side of the church from the rectory, so I don't know why the girls wouldn't have been sent there instead of to the priest's residence, and nobody can explain why, they just insist that's what the arrangement was. Whether my godmother was a victim of abuse or not, something happened that hurt her emotionally very badly, to where she left the Church. My parents asked her to be my godmother because she was pious, devout, and faithful, and they wanted that for me. Please pray for her to heal and return to Holy Mother Church, and also please pray for the victims of that priest and for all victims of clergy abuse.
That must have been traumatic she needs proper counseling.. and I see now why she saw Catholic that way. But a single priest must not damage the whole church.. even where I came from I know priest who was held accountable and in jail.. in summary judge d person not d whole church because everyone is a sinner regardless of religion
One by the name of Paul Gregersen demonstrates that Joseph Smith was right, the arrogant Egyptologists were wrong. Are you going to update your video to account for this?
One by the name of Paul Gregersen demonstrates that Joseph Smith was right, the arrogant Egyptologists were wrong. Are you going to update your video to account for this?
Please make more videos about Mormonism!
Several false items stated. One, the book of Abraham scrolls were not found after the great Chicago fire. Joseph Smith notes that the translation came from a “long scroll” not the several short papyri found after the fire including the facsimiles. In addition, although the facsimiles are similar to other well known Egyptian images, there are very odd features in the Abraham facsimiles such as an alligator appearing in a couch scene. It’s also worth noting that Smith never believed the images were firsthand from Abraham, hence he would take characters in the facsimiles that were clearly female and call them male to match the scene in the Book of Abraham.
Secondly, you made some rapid jabs in covering Joseph Smith. The chaos that ensued with polygamy was a result of the revelation on celestial marriage. At the time, their sources for doctrine consisted of the Bible and the newly published Book of Mormon including a variety of discourses by church leaders before doctrine was fully understood. The restored church was only 14 years old when Joseph died. Many feared that they would not receive exaltation since they didn’t have access to celestial marriage due to already being married or because they feared their husbands would go apostate. That’s why many women wanted to marry Joseph Smith whom they saw as a guaranteed trip to heaven. They were mistaken in some ways. The 14 year old girl married Joseph to secure her exaltation, but continued to live with her parents after the marriage and remarried after Joseph’s death.
Third, the use of gods in Abraham was a result of the Egyptian version of the creation account. Regardless, gods is not an incorrect translation of the Hebrew account, as Elohim means gods and they use plural terms such as “we”.
Fourth, I took a Latin American history class (I’m at a secular university) and we discussed about massive empires and advanced civilizations found in Central America that are almost entirely gone. There are currently mass graves of hundreds being found in the jungles of Latin America. LiDAR tech has allowed us to see entire cities buried beneath the foliage. Though you can’t point out specific cities like the Bible, it can absolutely be substantiated.
Protestantism I understand, but how people fell and continue to follow Mormonism is beyond me. It's such a quack theology with a handful of gymnastics that are done to avoid historical Christianity and Divine revelation. Islam is just as false or bad but there's at least some small level of consistency in it. Mormonism I find to be irrationally misleading and inconsistent. Mormons are so kind but sadly, the Mormon "church" couldnt be anymore disconnected with the deposit of faith that has been given to us in Jesus through His Apostles.
It appeals to those who are emotionally vulnerable and those who don’t have a good understanding of religion. The mormons also have a really tight knit community so people who are looking for community, family, and a sense of belonging they gravitate towards mormonism. They are constantly doing activities outside of Sunday church services. They get you really involved with service work and group activities. It’s an emotion-based and feelings-based religion.
@@alyssaprice2511 Pew studies consistently find that Mormons know the scriptures better than members of other religions. That appeals to emotion-based and feelings-based people?
@@alyssaprice2511 Not to sound arrogant but I could beat you and anyone else in here in any theological debate and I have beat multiple Catholics in theological.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@HaleStorm49 The pew study is irrelevant to this topic. According to the Pew study, Mormons scored highest knowing basic questions about others religions. This isn’t too shocking as mormon missionaries are trained to have some basic understanding of others faiths when in the field.
Having been Mormon for 22+ years, I have yet to come across a mormon who can go toe to toe with a Christian when it comes to understanding the bible. Mormons may know their book of mormon like the back of their hand but the little they know of the Bible is an inaccurate version which was re-written by Joseph Smith which has been proven to be false.
The point to my original comment was Mormon Missionaries are able to convert those who are vulnerable through emotions. If they don’t the main argument to know the book of mormon is true wouldn’t be “read this, pray about it, and if you get a good feeling you know it’s true. But if you don’t get a good feeling, keep praying and keep reading”.
That’s horrible logic. It says in the Bible we cannot just trust our feelings and emotions (Jeremiah 7:9-10).
@@alyssaprice2511 One of my favorite things is when a teenager or young adult says "I was ___ for 18 years" or "all my life" and then comments on something that makes them sound far younger than their actual age.
Reason 1 is that Trent already believes something different, despite the Hebrew saying different. The Hebrew word translated "create" means to form out of existing matter. The steady state of the universe has never been disproven.
Trent, I invite you to stop trusting in the wisdom of men. Trust in God.
If you're going to start addressing Mormon truth claims then you need to be willing to have discussions/ debates with the best scholars we have to offer. I'd suggest inviting Robert Boylan or Blake Ostler on your show.
I'll pass that suggestion along to Trent! Thanks! -Kyle
Thanks! I've read Boylan's blog and he has praised my work on pro-life and baptism. I'm open to maybe debating him in Utah if we can get scheduling figured out.
@@TheCounselofTrent Thanks. Engaging with you would be refreshing since we're so used to engaging with counter-cult ministries like Apologia.
@@TheCounselofTrent awesome! I'm LDS, but I think you're the most balanced fair apologist and I think it would be a great discussion.
@@TheCounselofTrent Jacob Hansen also will do debates, he has debated the Trinity and source of authority before. His UA-cam channel is called Thoughtful Faith
Man, I used to be Mormon and the teach jeans that I learned were very, very corrupted not only that they taught that we could become gods one day, but the thing was I didn’t feel the spirit of God so I love the church and then I found myself into protestant where they talk about faith alone yeah I felt God in that, but it wasn’t the full truth, but the spirit of truth or Holy Spirit Brought me back home to the Catholic Church
I was raised Mormon and must admit I'm no longer one but I do believe that the insistence that Mormons aren't Christian is hurting all Christians, we can learn alot from each other
Well said.
Ex Mormon here. No, they are not Christians.
They objectively are not Christians. This is not up for debate.
It doesn't hurt us at all. It is a helpful distinction. The theological gap between the two is too great to not warrant a distinction.
@@jeffs4483 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the *Most* Christian. I know I would be lying if I tried to admit otherwise.
Hellow as a orthodox, how about we unite again 🙌
The way we're pestered by protestant's, it feels like we already are. Of course however... filioque.
Nice to share opinions, but pretty sure most Mormons have reasons they are not Catholics. People believe whatever they want to believe.
3 reasons I could Possibly be a mormon. 1,a pre earthly existence( potentially, God Asks them if they wish to participate in creation). This in a single swoop almost explains the problem of evil. 2, ! They dont really do Hell do they? And three, No Trinity? If they do though believe in the trinity, they make up, somewhat, for its deficits. That is, obedient Mormons get to become their own god.Makes a lot of moral sense. Being god is the best. Why not make man a god in that case Certainly a lower case god. But, IF the popes words are in fact infallible, then theres no Hell then? Isnt there syncritism to?. The Catholics R, in that case, by the far the best of the fundamentalists, or perhaps literalists. Your purgatory is also superior. Frank Turek cant answer the question, why does some A hole on his death bed - nothing left to lose, get a free ride to heaven?He avoids the question .
Mormonism is the American version of Islam.
No it isn't.
@@dubachatron4094 Joseph Smith called himself The New Muhammed. He said the Book of Mormon was Another Koran.
@@fantasia55 No he didn't. The closest quote you can find is "he would yet tread down his enemies, and walk over their dead bodies; and if he was not let alone, he would be a second Mohammed to this generation, and that it would be one gore of blood from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean; that like Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was, 'the Alcoran or the Sword,' so should it be eventually with us, 'Joseph Smith or the Sword" which was by an unreliable source. Even if Joseph did say that, it isn't what you are saying
@@dylanwilliams2202 He regarded himself as the New Muhammed. Had he not been killed, he would have used his Mormon Legion, then larger than the U.S. Army, to try and conquer the nation.
@@fantasia55 LOL the Nauvoo legion has never been larger than the USA army. The Nauvoo legion had 2500 while the US army had 8500. Joseph Smith also had no plans of conquering the US, running for president yes but no through the military. You need to get off the fanfiction and read real history books
Current Mormon here. Just gotta say I LOVE this thumbnail! 😂😂
Trent, could you do a video on megachurches/nondenoms and what you think of them? They seem to be creeping up more and stealing away people. And they have huge sunday attendances. How is that? How can we bring that into our churches?
It’s because they are all about entertaining, not true worship. I believe if Jesus visited one of them, he would take a whip out and knock the coffee shops over.
I do not like the megachurches because they are all about being the motivational speaker for their own glory. That is my opinion at least
Well Sola scriptura I do submit to the church I attend. Now I disagree with people who do solo scriptura. meaning just me and my bible. That mind set can lead to cults and people thinking they got direct revelation. But no authority is higher then Gods word. Like we must honor our parents, it would be wrong for a person to reject their parents and say I only listen to God. And these people usually say, God told me to do that, another way to lead to a cult.
mormon = islam 2.0
Joseph Smith literally- and unironically- referred to himself as the "American Muhammad". And like Muhammad, he wanted to establish a theocracy through conquest. Not even joking, Smith wanted to conquer the nascent United States. He nearly had the army to do it, too. It was larger than several states' militias combined
Tousands of reasons I read the book of Mormon I know for myself the book of Mormon is another's testament of Jesus Crist.
Mormonism has absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Yes, because the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints never talk about Jesus Christ. That makes total sense.
Other than relentlessly proclaiming that salvation comes only through Christ.
Blessing our newborns in Christ’s name.
Baptizing in Christ’s name.
Conferring the Gift if the Holy Ghost in Christ’s name.
Receiving blessings throughout our lives in Christ’s name.
Marrying in Christ’s name.
Worshipping in temples In Christ’s name.
Opening and closing every Sunday worship in Christ’s name.
Receiving weekly Sacraments in Christ’s name.
And when we’re buried, our graves are dedicated in Christ’s name.
@@letsgocountry1242 You reject the Trinity, and therefore Christ.
For any Christians that do not understand atheism; Please be aware that the way that Christians see Mormons is similar as the way atheists see Christians. Hope that helps somewhat.