3:20 Another thing about Elrond and Glorfindel as cavalry elf heroes with Lord of the West and a hand-and-a-half choppa is that they got a nice indirect buff this ed from the new two-handed rule which does wonders for their biggest handicap of being only S4. With 4 attacks on the charge and the LotW reroll (and a banner) you have a good chance of getting a natty 6 for that sweet sweet +1 to W without a pesky penalty. Combining this with their +1 to W against Spirits/Monsters for +2 to W is just :chef's kiss:
Don't you remember that scene where Gimli was trapping Grima and then Grima just phased through him gave him a wedgie and charged Gandalf to stop him from casting his spell? That was my favourite scene! Seriously, he was already a cockroach and now he pushing past you like he has a warrant. Are we also going to get a top 10 most disappointing profiles too?
Lurtz and Sharku both got significant improvements, but are sadly limited to one army list each, even though there’s no lore reason why they shouldn’t be in the Army of the White Hand. Lurtz was in the first batch of Uruk-hai, and Sharku had been at Isengard since before the war of the ring
No Gandalf the White love?! He is now a proper battle mage, and I will be running him in most lists that I can. He feels so good to use in the few games I have played since the edition change. Also, the 3 trolls may be the best starter army in the game now. You can play at any game value up to 1000 points and are just fun to use! Gwaihir is also good, and the buff is really amazing, but the loss of soup lists everywhere (Which is the best change in my opinion) means he will be seen less overall. This new edition is so good! Looking forward to the tournament season!
Gandalf was close to making the list! He definitely gained a boost to his stats, however magic overall was toned down a bit, so he lost some of that as well.
@intothewestpodcast I do definitely see that, but I think magic feels better for the setting now. It is a situational power used by the super elite in the books, and it feels that way now. Gandalf being really good in combat makes his magic being more situational easier to accept for me. Saruman is still a monster with magic, but he feels the nerf more without being able to really survive in combat. At least that is how it feels to me. Either way, the video was good, lots of games to play to see which units really shine!
I think a good grima change could be that you would have to pass an intelligance test to charge him (still not being able to hurt him like last edition). That way it would get a bit harder to trap him and it could mybe result to both players having some sort of agency.
So two quick questions here guys: What do you think about gandalf the white facelift? Do you think you can hurl people into grima? It's not magic neither a special rule... Keep the good work, looking forward to some battle reports.
Gandalf the White got better and is usable in a few of the armies but I think his upgrade is a bit overstated since Magic got so much worse, he also lost command/compel so while he's a much better fighter, he got worse as a caster. You can't hurl into Grima because he counts as a friendly for all purposes except for Magical powers, and you can only hurl target an enemy model. -Richard
Still would want the 3A 3W Legolas and also F7 and 3 Will. I mean if Tauriel gets 3 attacks why not Legolas. But I do like his new profile, it’s great and does do him justice as the best archer on Middle Earth. The dude got trough the whole movie with only some bruises, that justifies 3wounds. Woodland creature would be logical for all Mirkwood elves. He killed Bolg and yet Bolg has F7 3A.
@@intothewestpodcastOh nice! The new Leggy profile is awesome tho even in the normal lists. And only for 105 points. But some extra would just make him perfect, they could add some points to compensate that. But they may do that in a FAQ without buff because that new profile is crazy for it’s points.
While Faramir's profile doesn't force him to charge if Denethor is on the field, the Minas Tirith army bonus does, so nothing has changed in that regard.
Very true, it was just thrown in as it’s no longer on the profile technically. In the off chance we get another list with both of them would be the way it could make a difference.
No love for the Keeper of the Dungeons? Up'd to 3 attacks instead of 2. With all the nazgul being dropped in Might, giving him 3 attacks to make him more durable, and having 3 might is huge for the necro list! Points have went up by 5, same with all the nazgul, but with the necro dropping 50 points, you still get the same models at 800 points! Also, I love that Grima got the recognition. The Isen lists are nice, and Grima is huge now for 25 points!
Balrog, no? 8" movement, F10 when Heroic Strike is only D3, free strikes against spear supports, Dominant (10), ... Craaaaaazy. Didn't need the buff at all.
You might be able to find some on Reddit or you can use Tabletop Admiral (He does an amazing job but I wouldn't rely on that for tournament play as it might not always be 100% accurate). We still recommend getting the new books for all the profiles.
I am Grima's number one hater, so I am not pleased with him getting buffed. I was very thankful for him losing his horse, but now he is even more annoying. Fundamentally an unfun model to play against.
The "unfun" argument tends to be one-sided. It depends on what you consider "fun." Is it fun to have a cloee game in which both commanders are pulling out all their tricks to win, or is it just fun to win hands down. Not trying to flame this particular comment, but it seems like most of these complaints just fall into the latter category.
@@HallofCats-h3k nothing against powerful models/profiles. Sure, there's people who have fun playing with all different profiles but when we speak on "unfun mechanics", we are basing it on what most players would deem unfun whether it's a win or loss. To me, it's not about close or not, it's about having counterplays or having ways to interact. But maybe you're right and there's some players out there that enjoy pure RNG that don't have much counterplay.
You can still target him with spells. That is a hard counter to Grima. I love when armies have unique things I have to plan for. It makes each faction a challenge to tune your army to have an answer for.
@intothewestpodcast We are speaking of the same thing. When I said, "pulling out all their tricks to win," I mean interracting with the opponent in a meaningful way. I think where we deviate is that I think there are ways to interract with most things in the game. IMO, people complain, not because there were no possible interractions, but either because of poor play or list building, they did not take those actions. To be clear, negative experiences do exist. In the old edition I played a game, Angmar vs Denizens of Mirkwood, and it was a negative play experience, but simply because neither of us could do anything. We just failed to charge the whole game, killing maybe 5 models across the board. I won simply by banner VPs, but it was not necessarily a fun game. So they do exist, but their prevailence is far overestimated.
I have been leaning more and more towards banning mumaks at my events in the new edition. I dont like banning things, last edition it was just smaug and bombadil/goldberry. Negative player experience stuff (vanquishers almost made the list). Mumaks were always NPE to a degree but now they are NPE AND much better (tho at least you cant trample from reinforcements anymore). Time will tell ofc. Also as a TO having to set up terrain that allows the mumak to move kinda limits terrain too much, especially when the game suggests 33% terrain minimum. Keep up the great vids, always interesting to hear your analysis.
Yeah, Mumaks are going to be a menace. The terrain issue I think is through lack of clarity, 33% of the board being terrain could actually mean vastly different things depending on how you design it. Is that 33% building and Woodland terrain? Mumaks are calling in sick. Is that 33% of the board being covered in shallow water and rocky difficult terrain? OH BABY ITS TRAMPLE TIME!
I doubt the new rules have made Mûmakil significantly more viable in my meta. My biggest problem when using one has always been the terrain. The vast majority of the tables at the tournaments I've been to were very bad for them. Compared to that, being pinned by one model or being shut down by magic were minor annoyances.
@@axelskovgaardteglskov8443 If your terrain was anything other than buildings and forests, they have been improved. But those two do seem to be the majority of boards by my estimate.
Agreed that the new Celeborn is better but it's hard to say he's the most buffed when he has changed so much which includes some losses like his fighting ability.
Still kinda stinks that orcs are better strength and usually better defense than most everything in gondor and rohan. Also, the fountain court is not really much better than a regular gondor warrior. Wish they were atleast strength 4
You can tell this edition was written by an Elf player good got ridiculously gigabuffed where I can't even legally make an 800 pt list with 15 character models & 70 soldiers. From what I've seen evil will probably just be bring 2 mounted ringwraiths of some description with morgal blades and stick them in Gwahir, a troll or the other guys 200+ point lord model. Pretty horrically bad edition IMO. There is no list where basic orcs & warg riders can be played so lame. Jay needs to be fired.
![The History of Morgoth [COMPILATION] | Tolkien Explained](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ktet64d9O-c/mqdefault.jpg)
3:20 Another thing about Elrond and Glorfindel as cavalry elf heroes with Lord of the West and a hand-and-a-half choppa is that they got a nice indirect buff this ed from the new two-handed rule which does wonders for their biggest handicap of being only S4. With 4 attacks on the charge and the LotW reroll (and a banner) you have a good chance of getting a natty 6 for that sweet sweet +1 to W without a pesky penalty. Combining this with their +1 to W against Spirits/Monsters for +2 to W is just :chef's kiss:
Loving the video so far guys! The Age of Cav has ended, the time of the Beast has come!
Don't you remember that scene where Gimli was trapping Grima and then Grima just phased through him gave him a wedgie and charged Gandalf to stop him from casting his spell? That was my favourite scene! Seriously, he was already a cockroach and now he pushing past you like he has a warrant.
Are we also going to get a top 10 most disappointing profiles too?
Covering the most nerfed profiles in the next video 🙂
@@intothewestpodcast Most nerfed and most disappointing are not a direct overlap, but I suppose we'll have to see what everyone ends up discussing.
Rohan propoganda
Best comment ever 😂
Lurtz and Sharku both got significant improvements, but are sadly limited to one army list each, even though there’s no lore reason why they shouldn’t be in the Army of the White Hand.
Lurtz was in the first batch of Uruk-hai, and Sharku had been at Isengard since before the war of the ring
No Gandalf the White love?! He is now a proper battle mage, and I will be running him in most lists that I can. He feels so good to use in the few games I have played since the edition change. Also, the 3 trolls may be the best starter army in the game now. You can play at any game value up to 1000 points and are just fun to use!
Gwaihir is also good, and the buff is really amazing, but the loss of soup lists everywhere (Which is the best change in my opinion) means he will be seen less overall. This new edition is so good! Looking forward to the tournament season!
Gandalf was close to making the list! He definitely gained a boost to his stats, however magic overall was toned down a bit, so he lost some of that as well.
@intothewestpodcast I do definitely see that, but I think magic feels better for the setting now. It is a situational power used by the super elite in the books, and it feels that way now. Gandalf being really good in combat makes his magic being more situational easier to accept for me. Saruman is still a monster with magic, but he feels the nerf more without being able to really survive in combat. At least that is how it feels to me. Either way, the video was good, lots of games to play to see which units really shine!
3 Windlances with dale shooting gna be so busted. Callin it now
It's already happening on TTS 😭
I can see a FAQ nerf coming for them!
I think Buhrdur in low point matches and the troll chieftains are contenders, the chieftian in black gate specifically.
Buhrdur wasn’t in either book, otherwise definitely a contender for most buffed in Angmar!
Have you heard about our lord and savior Glorfindel from the Rise of Angmar pdf?
Yall forgot Bill the Pony’s major buff. He now acts as a banner for the entire fellowship.
I think a good grima change could be that you would have to pass an intelligance test to charge him (still not being able to hurt him like last edition). That way it would get a bit harder to trap him and it could mybe result to both players having some sort of agency.
Worth noting the other buff for the Windlance, giving the army rerolls to wound! Madness!
So two quick questions here guys:
What do you think about gandalf the white facelift?
Do you think you can hurl people into grima? It's not magic neither a special rule...
Keep the good work, looking forward to some battle reports.
Gandalf the White got better and is usable in a few of the armies but I think his upgrade is a bit overstated since Magic got so much worse, he also lost command/compel so while he's a much better fighter, he got worse as a caster.
You can't hurl into Grima because he counts as a friendly for all purposes except for Magical powers, and you can only hurl target an enemy model.
-Richard
Still would want the 3A 3W Legolas and also F7 and 3 Will. I mean if Tauriel gets 3 attacks why not Legolas. But I do like his new profile, it’s great and does do him justice as the best archer on Middle Earth. The dude got trough the whole movie with only some bruises, that justifies 3wounds. Woodland creature would be logical for all Mirkwood elves.
He killed Bolg and yet Bolg has F7 3A.
Being F7 with 3 attacks matters a little less when you cop a trio of arrows in your face before you even get a chance to hit the other guy.
Megolas lives on in the Assault on Raventhill list!
@@intothewestpodcastOh nice! The new Leggy profile is awesome tho even in the normal lists. And only for 105 points. But some extra would just make him perfect, they could add some points to compensate that. But they may do that in a FAQ without buff because that new profile is crazy for it’s points.
@@DesmondDentrestiFair enough, but it add just that little extra. Especially fighting against higher defence heroes.
Isengard bomb most nerfed. Only 1 brand and heroic combats go off before detonation
Aha we may have missed that one but you're right, that kills that profile 😭
@@robbo2099 another W to Rohan
While Faramir's profile doesn't force him to charge if Denethor is on the field, the Minas Tirith army bonus does, so nothing has changed in that regard.
Very true, it was just thrown in as it’s no longer on the profile technically. In the off chance we get another list with both of them would be the way it could make a difference.
No love for the Keeper of the Dungeons? Up'd to 3 attacks instead of 2. With all the nazgul being dropped in Might, giving him 3 attacks to make him more durable, and having 3 might is huge for the necro list! Points have went up by 5, same with all the nazgul, but with the necro dropping 50 points, you still get the same models at 800 points!
Also, I love that Grima got the recognition. The Isen lists are nice, and Grima is huge now for 25 points!
Keeper is definitely a more valuable pick now! We just think 1 more attack for 5 points isn’t as impactful as other profiles that received buffs.
Would the buffed Glorfindel and Earnur make the list if included from the additional rules release?
Maybe, Glorfindel especially got a big boost!
You forgot about the THREE TROLLS
Good shout out, they are playable now!
Does anyone know the new profile for Lurtz please 😢
Check out Tabletop Admiral!
@intothewestpodcast thanks a lot 🤟
Balrog, no? 8" movement, F10 when Heroic Strike is only D3, free strikes against spear supports, Dominant (10), ... Craaaaaazy.
Didn't need the buff at all.
Yeah Balrog buffs were big, probably coulda been an honourable mention
Whats it gonna take to get a cirith ungol battle report on the channel.
We always appreciate matchup suggestions!
Is there a compilation of all the spoiled profiles somewhere?
You might be able to find some on Reddit or you can use Tabletop Admiral (He does an amazing job but I wouldn't rely on that for tournament play as it might not always be 100% accurate). We still recommend getting the new books for all the profiles.
Dale is OP, 3 windlance, 40 boys max bows and +1 to wound in deployment zone or 6" Windlance
Yeah I've seen people already doing some work with it, top tier army for sure with the current scenario pools
I am Grima's number one hater, so I am not pleased with him getting buffed. I was very thankful for him losing his horse, but now he is even more annoying. Fundamentally an unfun model to play against.
100%
The "unfun" argument tends to be one-sided. It depends on what you consider "fun." Is it fun to have a cloee game in which both commanders are pulling out all their tricks to win, or is it just fun to win hands down. Not trying to flame this particular comment, but it seems like most of these complaints just fall into the latter category.
@@HallofCats-h3k nothing against powerful models/profiles. Sure, there's people who have fun playing with all different profiles but when we speak on "unfun mechanics", we are basing it on what most players would deem unfun whether it's a win or loss. To me, it's not about close or not, it's about having counterplays or having ways to interact.
But maybe you're right and there's some players out there that enjoy pure RNG that don't have much counterplay.
You can still target him with spells. That is a hard counter to Grima. I love when armies have unique things I have to plan for. It makes each faction a challenge to tune your army to have an answer for.
@intothewestpodcast We are speaking of the same thing. When I said, "pulling out all their tricks to win," I mean interracting with the opponent in a meaningful way.
I think where we deviate is that I think there are ways to interract with most things in the game. IMO, people complain, not because there were no possible interractions, but either because of poor play or list building, they did not take those actions.
To be clear, negative experiences do exist. In the old edition I played a game, Angmar vs Denizens of Mirkwood, and it was a negative play experience, but simply because neither of us could do anything. We just failed to charge the whole game, killing maybe 5 models across the board. I won simply by banner VPs, but it was not necessarily a fun game. So they do exist, but their prevailence is far overestimated.
If its just about the single profile shouldnt Lobelia be in it? She went from being a gimmick to being insane for a 20 point model.
Great shout! She gained an insanely powerful rule.
Gorbag being f5 base that can get to f6 3 attacks. Sleeping on him i think.
He no longer gains a FV when outnumbered, so it’s more of just F5 instead of conditional F5.
I have been leaning more and more towards banning mumaks at my events in the new edition. I dont like banning things, last edition it was just smaug and bombadil/goldberry. Negative player experience stuff (vanquishers almost made the list). Mumaks were always NPE to a degree but now they are NPE AND much better (tho at least you cant trample from reinforcements anymore). Time will tell ofc. Also as a TO having to set up terrain that allows the mumak to move kinda limits terrain too much, especially when the game suggests 33% terrain minimum. Keep up the great vids, always interesting to hear your analysis.
We hear your concerns! We will have to see how often they appear at tournaments over the next few months.
Yeah, Mumaks are going to be a menace. The terrain issue I think is through lack of clarity, 33% of the board being terrain could actually mean vastly different things depending on how you design it.
Is that 33% building and Woodland terrain? Mumaks are calling in sick.
Is that 33% of the board being covered in shallow water and rocky difficult terrain? OH BABY ITS TRAMPLE TIME!
I doubt the new rules have made Mûmakil significantly more viable in my meta. My biggest problem when using one has always been the terrain. The vast majority of the tables at the tournaments I've been to were very bad for them. Compared to that, being pinned by one model or being shut down by magic were minor annoyances.
@@axelskovgaardteglskov8443 If your terrain was anything other than buildings and forests, they have been improved.
But those two do seem to be the majority of boards by my estimate.
No unarmored Celeborn?!
Agreed that the new Celeborn is better but it's hard to say he's the most buffed when he has changed so much which includes some losses like his fighting ability.
Does anyone know the new stats for numenorians?
Same as before but bumped to F5.
@ u Are my hero, thank you my friend, all the books are sold out. Have a good Christmas mate
Still kinda stinks that orcs are better strength and usually better defense than most everything in gondor and rohan. Also, the fountain court is not really much better than a regular gondor warrior. Wish they were atleast strength 4
Celeborn?
He's just too different to really compare since he can't fight anymore. But overall I agree he's better.
You can tell this edition was written by an Elf player good got ridiculously gigabuffed where I can't even legally make an 800 pt list with 15 character models & 70 soldiers. From what I've seen evil will probably just be bring 2 mounted ringwraiths of some description with morgal blades and stick them in Gwahir, a troll or the other guys 200+ point lord model. Pretty horrically bad edition IMO. There is no list where basic orcs & warg riders can be played so lame. Jay needs to be fired.