The Scapegoat Child’s Role & Symptoms in Narcissistic Abuse
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- Today, let’s uncover the role and symptoms that bind a scapegoat child to a hostile parent, and discover the pivotal steps towards liberation.
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The realization that your parent opposes your happiness, growth, and joy IS truly terrifying. For me there really was no peace until I came to terms with it as an adult.
Yes, but while stifling you they say "we love you but...."
What fresh hell is this? What a terrible scenario to have had to endure for us scapegoats. No one can hope to understand unless they have also endured.
A painful and confusing introduction to life. What I eventually found out that joined so many dots is the tactic of infantilization, I havent heard many therapists / psychologists mention this. Jay if you see this comment, would you consider doing a video on infantilization?
Infantilization is a common subtle technique used in narcissism to invoke dependence of most often a teenage or adult child on a narcissistic parent. This form of abuse can have devastating Long term effects on the unsuspecting child.
A sinister tactic of the covert narcissist parent - treating you like a child regardless of your age, maturity, and life experience, condescending tones and unwarranted advice, scoffing at your ideas, opinions, and version of events, invalidation and a feeling of a general lack of support. If you relay instances of injustice in your life they will always take the side of the abuser in the story, and make you feel like you are somehow in the wrong.
Criticism of your appearance, hair, clothing, the way you walk etc
All of this done to destabilize and uphold the parent/child power and domination dynamic.
The narcissist parent refuses to acknowledge the scapegoated son or daughters life development, refusing to become equals at a certain age, who can be friends with mutual respect, the narcissist must always uphold the superior position to regulate their emotions and keep the hierarchy in place.
The family scapegoat is supposed to be a f*ck-up by design, a loser, a struggler, so none of their achievements or developments can or will be acknowledged, because it will go against the covert narcissists narrative that the scapegoated person is inherently bad / flawed / unworthy / lacking intelligence / useless.
And that is my mother, the covert narcissist, along with her subservient, weak and enabling husband (stepfather) and my two sisters, who are implicit in the abuse of the scapegoat because they pander to the covert narcissist mother and enabler stepfather, in order to keep their preferential position in the family hierarchy.
@@HeartFeltGesture incredibly well put. Seriously good writing. Misery does not love company (in my case), but seldom has my entire life experience with my family of origin been so accurately and succinctly stated. My mother treated me this way from my birth through to her last breath. To have lived this experience is so painful. I have found that most people, even most therapists cannot hear of it. Their capacity does not stretch that far or it's fundamentally inconceivable to them. Either way, they can't hear it, and the one who has experienced it is left in even deeper isolation.
It takes people decades to finally accept their parents were against them sometimes they never accept it
@@leahflower9924 Accurate. I went back and forth in and out of denial about this for decades. Now my denial is broken and I've made real progress in accepting my life and owning my story as I know it, not as my parents described and told me I was (and am).
_"The way we speak to our children becomes their inner voice"_
And our animals.
That is why I must be more careful to how I speak to them. I need to avoid traumatize children.
@@rs5570 I will do that as well.
I knew to tell my child to trust their instincts and believe in themself because I was told the opposite and understood what was happening because the narcissists could not manipulate my Grandmother into laughing down.
So they laughed down on both of us but in the end I escaped, and because of her I am as free of them as I can be.
I never WANT TO remember what they said to me.
“Sometimes the person you are willing to take the bullet for is the one who pulls the trigger”
I'm 67 and at last have a therapist to whom I can open up. Being scapegoated for all my life by five people has been HELL.
Try the Crappy Childhood Fairy and good luck.
The psychotic fantasy/delusion we shared with the parents...man. My parents had me convinced I could not drive, cook, clean, pick a spouse, raise my children or basically do anything properly. I was so demoralized by their behavior for so long. I thankfully have made alot of progress since removing them from my life. I got a job, sold my house and moved so they couldn't find me, have been able to get off anxiety medications, and I am able to think about and make happy plans for the future.
Y699ooooo998í
Congratulations.
Amazing 🎉
I wouldn't have dared do what what you have done. Good for you! 😊
Oh wow! I thought I was the only one that experienced this! I'm so proud of you❤
“Developing the terrifying awareness that their own parent is hostile towards them.” Sooooo well said Jay. These are the horrific realities for the scapegoat child…. Who then grows into an adult and finally learns the truth of their parent’s outrageous behaviour.
It was never ever my fault!!!!! Truth sets us free
Not really. Not according to the brain scans of those who have been abused by parents. It’s certainly helpful but by then your brain has been damaged by the parent. Some are luckier than others.
Sorry you feel this way. Yes you’re right about our brains being damaged. I think there’s only a certain amount of healing that can take place. We learn to see the truth of what was really going on all our lives, but there will always be scars and deep rooted sadness to deal with
Someone who actually loves you will not repeatedly sabotage you.
When you said "a scapegoated child has to sacrifice their own growth" to serve as their parents' scapegoat, you stopped me cold. I stopped and wrote it down in all caps to go in my journal. This is a serious and deadly problem that I and too many other people, other children, have experienced. No one will believe what I went through because the worst words, the worst behavior was secret, denied, buried, hidden from most, even siblings and I was a loyal person who didn't tell on my parents. But I know better now. I know what happened. And I am growing and developing now. I'm almost 60. It's never too late to investigate your past and vastly improve your present. Thank you. Good luck to all here.
Thank you 💞
“There are no witnesses so nothing is happening” was my tormentor’s favourite saying.
@@fatamorgana223 Our tormentors lied to us. We are the witnesses. We know what happened.
Also check out Dr. LES CARTER, " SURVIVING NARCISSISM " ON UA-cam...where I received my first EPIPHANY at age 60...3 years ago I was born again, & freed from this vicious loop...♡☆♡ Good luck, & God Bless you ♡☆♡
@@sylettemonroe7431 Yes. I hear that.
Spot on.
You must destroy the shared psychotic fantasy. You aren’t you they are projecting on you. Using this step alone is tremendously freeing and powerful.
What an intelligent and succicint summary of what the narcissistic spell being cast by the female or male narcissist seems like. While from time to time when living under the same roof as a narcissist or when being forced to coparent with one. Experiencing the full range of our emotions and expressing the full range of possible behaviors when surviving the experience and helping all of our loved ones survive is something that the narcissists uses to try and vilify us into participating in their shared psychotic fantasy.
I wasted so kuch time trusting my narcissistic family. Never trust your enemies!
To wake up at the age of 56 that my Mum hated me developing from child to adult and did her best to hold back my growth has hurt me to the core
I loved my Mum SO much
She was my world
My best friend
Yet now I realise that she was my worst enemy
Or maybe she was just severely wounded and projected onto you...but still loved you in her own warped and wounded way?
I've been almost no-contact for three years, dipped my toe back in for a moment and BAM, so much hostility and telling me I'm wrong, bad, need to change, etc. All my old feelings came back and I can now see for myself the peace people talk about experiencing after no-contact.
It breaks my heart because I loved these people and works have done anything for them. Thanks to youtube, I can see I was using magical thinking.
It's painful to see reality and my family for what they truly are, but the peace really is worth it.
It's like they're in a pringles can, I lift the lid to say heyyyy and all I hear is screaming echoes of how I suck, even after three years of no contact. Instead of diminishing it got louder.
I didn't think I could go no-contact, orphan myself and be OK but actually I'm more than OK, I'm thriving.
Hope this helps someone 💗💗💗💗
Does help.
Well it does help, but also you've ruined Pringles for me
Don't go back
My parents are deceased. But I still feel the effects of being the Scapegoat. The effects continue even after the narcissist is gone.
I agree that the effects still persist afterward.
You're right. I still feel destroyed.
Thank you for your comment.
@@jacquismith3277 I understand as well.
The axe forgets, but the tree remembers.
You can't be an individual in a narcissistic family system. I felt like a slave in my narcissistic family. I had to go no contact to save my mental and physical health. Narcissistic parents will destroy the scapegoated child. It's a sad but true story. Scapegoated children have to get away to grow mentally.
Wow. I never understood why my narcissistic father hates me so much. I can related to your point here that the father needed me to remain small and less than him. I always fought back and got more abuse.
Many parents hate the child/ren. This is a fact often overlooked when people end up with depression & other emotional psychological states.
Impossible to overstate this. Yes. Many parents do hate children. Their own and everyone else's children. Many not only hate, they act on those hateful feelings, and enjoy every second of the chaos of their actions. They also love the power they feel while living enraged lives.
It does not have to be actual hate to be damaging. It can be indifference.
It is a very difficult situation if we examine it in terms of population collapse and so many other problems facing humanity. I vote for people who should not have children to not have children. And yet, some fear the population collapse occurring could mean the end of humanity. Perhaps that might be best. We have placed ourselves in a very difficult corner.
@@nancybartley4610 I admire your response. And you're correct. No active hate or malice required to exact what for a child is catastrophic damage. As to who should have children? Very many wounded people feel compelled to by religious dictate, two of whom were my parents. They were told to have children. They were taught to break the will of those children. They were told to abdicate their actual parenting duties to the church and it's many iterations of "education". Shall I continue? Where do I begin? Soul theft? Being taught they were fundamentally evil in their literal physical bodies? How about the very central idea and worship of a god's own son as...SCAPEGOAT being the only true salvation for mankind's choosing a wrong sacrifice to that god? This story and ethos of sacrifice, victim, savior and scapegoat is at the center of rabidly bad parenting and a culture bent on death. Having written all of that, no religion or morality is required for a parent to practice neglect and indifference. But the command to "be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth" is one many people feel compelled to fulfill.
@@palefireinca We are such delicate creatures. I am not being facetious or sarcastic. We know so much and yet so little.
I can only say that i read your words and wish i could do something to help all of us get through life with less pain. I hear your anger, righteous anger. That must suggest you are moving towards creating your own view of who and what you want to be and what values will guide your time here.
@@nancybartley4610 I understand. And haven't taken your response as sarcastic or facetious in any way. We are delicate beings. And surprisingly resilient. Am I still angry about the religious abuse? Maybe. But not like I once was. Believe it or not, I approach it most days with humor and balance. The reading I was required to do and skills I developed as a literature major proved helpful in taking on the most horrific parts. There are many many stores out there, and hearing many more than one was great--especially after being indoctrinated to not only read just one, but to worship it. Worship isn't required. How refreshing! Should my parents have had children? Probably not. Should I have had children? Probably not. But I did. And what I needed to learn to be a good enough mother to them was also important in growing myself up. Important perspective changes, like going from not wanting to be like my mother, for instance, to moving into what could be for myself and my sons. Not what should be but what could be. Freeing.
It really is like a double bind because if you don't own the projection because it's not who you are then they get mad at you and if you reflect the projection that they send at you then they're really mad
And can't own and apologise for things I may be truly guilty for, true resolution cannot happen.
So true. I have ached for them to have an epiphany but all I can do is give up. It makes me sad but if I show that, that proves I'm insane, sensitive crazy et cetera. It HURTS THEM when I point out double standards and if I don't feel bad for them, I'm cold hearted. I realised, wow, I've been groomed to feel their emotions to show I'm good/kind but I cannot show my own as that proves I'm sensitive and mad.
@@SusanaXpeace2u ♥️
@@SusanaXpeace2u me too
double bind is what I call it too. It is a catch22. Sometimes I thought I would go crazy. Sometimes I do not know how to handle the sadness. Sometimes I do not know how to deal with the anger.
I distanced myself from a group of friends that I had after they showed they didn't care about my feelings nor did they put any effort into resolving the issues in our friendship. I beat myself up and felt so guilty about distancing myself from them, hearing your statement about what makes a safe person made me feel so much better. They were not safe people
A parents’ opposition to a child is picked up by siblings as well. My two older sisters are just as hateful as my mother always was to me. My parents only had me to attempt to have a boy after 2 girls. Well. Didn’t happen and father was going to move to garage and then sisters wanted to run away. All of the negativity was expressed in front of a 5 and 7 year old sisters. I paid for it all my life. My mother would go years without talking to me for something I may have said or confronted her with. Don’t really bother with any of them anymore after being excluded from parents bday parties and other gatherings. Just cannot mentally or emotionally do it anymore at age 62.
I am also the youngest with my siblings 5 and 7 at my birth. Their mother died and their maternal grandmother very unhappy with my father to the point of telling the 7 year old lies. I always say I was born into the role of scapegoat for everyone else to put their issues upon. By 4 I had distanced myself from them mentally and tried to avoid interaction as much as possible.
I was accepted into Uconn at 17. My mother said I could not go because some children go to college and think they are better than their parents. 😩
One or more siblings can also be hostile to a scapegoat. When I went to grad school, I knew my family would be indifferent, and it would cause distance. I didn't realize my success would cause even deeper resentment of me.
Keep showing them up. Sooner or later " others" will see the truth
Embarrassing, stupid and wrong, repeating with bad friends, chronic depression…this has been the dynamic I’ve been struggled with all my
Life.
The symptoms I have as a scapegoat include:
-An inner critic that is hellish harsh.
-Designed to avoid feeling self-esteem.
-Symptom of anxiety is prominent.
I am speaking with my mental health counselor for more strategies to relive myself of these symptoms.
That hellishly harsh critic is no joke. Somehow finding a way to be kind with that critic has gone a long way for me with mine. Kind, but firm. This has taken much time and steady practice. A perfect opportunity to practice saying all of those no answers I was not permitted to say and was savagely punished for saying when I was doing my best to grow up. Well. Here I am, pulling myself through all of those maturity stages I was thwarted in, learning when and how to say no to myself and everyone else who I need to say no to. And also when to say yes. Yes, inner critic, I hear you, but no, inner critic, you do not get to demean me.
I agree about the harsh inner critic and harsh self-talk. I grew up in the U.S., and my mother is Greek. She used to get incredibly tense and menacing about us children learning to speak Greek properly, and would sometimes hit us. Much later as an adult I went alone to Greece, and the first morning when I woke up, I felt agoraphobic. I didn't want to go outside and speak ungrammatical Greek, I was afraid I would look strange as well (my parents had constantly commented upon how I walked, how I looked, what facial expressions I had: "get that s***-eating look off your face!"). Fortunately I had anticipated that I would feel this anxiety, and so I spoke to myself like a kind parent: "It's okay honey, you traveled a long way to get here. It's ok if you go out there and speak ungrammatical Greek..." and it helped me.
@@gobigirl1 you are not alone. My parents decided when I was three, that if I couldn't speak English correctly, they would neither listen to me nor answer me. They didn't have the excuse that they weren't from the US. They were. It's possible that in some tiny sense they meant well. But the effect that kind of treatment has on a child is tragic and chilling for the child. I am happy (!) that you were able to overcome the inner critic, then to enjoy Greece on your own terms. You deserve that and so much more.
@@palefireinca Exactly! Never demean yourself. You get a low esteem if you do, which leads to depression. Also, stop growing up. That is just how you become boring.
@@gobigirl1 I can relate to your experience. My mother always told me, "Fix your f**king face", for expressing how miserable she is making me, her children. Always saying, "I will give you a reason to cry", just shredding a tear from her being mean to me. Shaming me and comparing to my younger relatives on how put up with abuse. She is like this with the rest of children. She does not want us to think that her hitting, cussing, and lying to us is abuse when it in, in fact, is. Just telling us to "toughing up" and stop seeing their abuse as abuse. Our emotions do not matter to her. Only her emotions matter.
Jay this video was so insightful for me. I always thought that this role was be forced onto me I didn't realize that I actually accepted and identified with it in order to survive my childhood which was extremely volatile and unsafe. Seeing it for what it is makes me feel like its so much easier for me to see the role and put it down and walk away. I never wanted this role. I didn't choose this role. I didn't even deserve this role. But I did choose to survive. I chose to live and so I put the role on like a costume. I wore it for so long that's who I thought I was. But now I can see that it's not me and it was a horrid thing to make me think I was. But it's not me and it never was. I'm looking at the costume and it seems so obvious to me now. I don't want to play that role anymore. Jim Carey says depression is your body not wanting to play the role or character avatar of who we are anymore. That depression mean you need deep rest. I agree. Why am I still holding this costume? I look down at it in my hands and I set it down. I don't need this costume to survive anymore. I'm leaving and going to live life on my own terms like it or not. I'm free baby. I'm a free free bird.
The last sentence made Free Bird start playing in my head. lol
The moment when we realize that choosing to live meant a daily death. Along with my mother's constant grinding of her faults into me, and my having to accept it for any kind of survival at all. Little wonder that my every other thought for decades was suicide. And yet. There was the curious little girl, doing her best to live an adventure while working for live from everywhere around her except herself. Is that how I made it to 60?
I never thought about choosing the role either. It was put as being responsible when my father would correct me as an adult. I only found out in the last few years that he had decided to never let someone hold him accountable again when I was a small child and he left the family for a time, no one knowing where he was and someone got on him about it ( I don't know how severely). He said that would never happen again, could that be why he has no insight and no problem throwing others under the bus? He badgered me to divorce my ex, then sided with him. What is that? I guess it's projection because he wants me to play the villain ( taking over as he and mom divorced 30+ years ago) and supports the false narrative that he's blameless.
Beautifully articulated.
I love this comment so much! And LOVE that you used that quote from Jim Carrey☺️😁
At 55, I discovered my mother is a narcissist. Even though I have a long road to recovery, it made all of her horrible cruelty make total sense. Without saying anything, I look at her with pity. She knows I’ve figured her out so she is desperately trying everything she can to regain control over me.
I am in my 60s, and the last couple of years was the realization of what npd is about. It was about my family of origin.
Christmas brought npd to my home. After the brain scramble, I was forced to accept that this ongoing drama had to be dealt with.
It has been a process, but I will overcome the cruel reality that narcissists perceive as necessary.
Thank you Jay!! I'm a newbie therapist and also experienced a childhood with a narcissistic father. Your videos have been a God send! Thank you for all your work and dedication to this area in psychotherapy. I have learned to so much and I am grateful to know I am not alone in how I felt growing up. I hope to grow from my experience and continue to learn so that I can be a compassionate therapist to my clients.
Also watch Dr. Ramani on youtube, she is also doing something for newbies
Also look up Dr. LES CARTER, " SURVIVING NARCISSISM " ON UA-cam. ..very straight forward, & compassionate.
Same here.
A future psychotherapist 🍀, scapegoat to narc 'family'.
Trauma, recovering from narc abuse and additions will be my strongholds.
All the best. Your clients are happy to have you.
Future therapists and others- have a look on youtube at Dr George Simon and The Person who is Character Disordered- that is clearly not a diagnosable Personality Disordered, capable and successful in lots of fields and can willingly cause a lot of harm. His book is “ Wolf in Sheep’s Clothes”. His work is from some years back and has not been accepted within mainstream psychology- not empirically based etc. I can say that he speaks an important truth and provides important psychoeducation. These are the individuals who can go under the radar, do a lot of harm and be protected by the system. Thank you Dr Jay Reid for your excellent work.
Dr Les Carter yes he speaks so clearly-
"The way we speak to our children becomes their inner voice". "The way we speak to our children becomes their inner voice".
I always thought psychologists overplayed parental relations and downplayed the importance of peer relations in forming a personality. It's only after I've discovered the effects of childhood emotional neglect that I realized bad parental relations are the train tracks toward bad peer relations
Yes. My dad did 2 stints in a psychiatrichospital with paranoid delusions and yet it is ME who has the label of paranoid in our family. In middle age I asked that this label stop now and omg classic darvo followed by the silent treatment :-(
It could be that in this case, their neglect of you is your ally. If the only way they can identify and treat you is as the psychotic in the family, all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding, then it is not you who is failing them for pointing out the truth. There are very many people who cannot hear truth. Neither can they speak it. From those people, silence is actually golden, I think.
I'm the scapegoat and an only child. Everyone thinks because you're the only one, you must have a charmed life...not so. I've been going through healing since 2014, and recently had a big trigger which threw me into a tailspin. It surprised me because I thought I was "over it", but my body, and intuitive senses were blasting. I believe your video came up for a reason, and thank you for these tools.
This is great. This man is right into it - on - the problem I faced PRECISELY...FULLY. You can be a scapegoat and also the identified patient of a dysfunctional family system. I was expelled into the desert by my "tribe" in the mid 1990s. I had been literally a mental patient for about several years by that time. I wonder how the family system is doing now without me. They must have known I'd die in the Sinai Desert, but I was of no use whatsoever to my narcissistic father anymore.
"LIFE WITHOUT SELF-WORTH can be a very dreary proposition" DISTANT YOURSELF FROM ABUSERS, QUESTION ALL SELF HATRED & CRITICISM, TELL OTHERS WHEN THEY HURT YOU (if they ignore you they are UNSAFE)"
Wow, such sense. It has taken many years of counselling and self analysis to realise that I am not defective and that it was others choices designed to undermine myself and make me invalid. Finally seeing the light and healing. Your videos make so much sense. Thank you from the UK.
I wasn’t the scalpegoat as a kid , my brother was , but I’m the family scapegoat now in my marriage
I just finished your new book "Growing up as the Scapegoat" and can recommend it wholeheartedly to all survivors and therapists. It is for me so on the point, validating and empowering. I wish more therapists knew about this. Now I get the whole picture and understanding. Thank you Mr. Reid! Wishing all scapegoats to become proud colourful goats and overall to learn to love the precious humans they were all the time ;)
This channel has truly changed my life for the better.
Morning Jay, I just wanted to say thanks one again. Why, because you helped me tremendously, and you are one very wise human being. Have a Great Week Jay!
All my life I felt depressed, have low self esteem, low self worth, anxiety.
It’s shocking to know that person who pretended to be your well wisher, your best friend, YOUR OWN NARC MOTHER caused it!!
She triggers me every time I talk to her, I feel like I’m trapped in this hell and never gain distance from her.
"Isaiah's experience with his therapist shows how quickly the ways of participating in a narcissistic relationship can show up" .... yeah, agree, it's wired into the nervous system so it doesn't even pass through an observable thought process unless you really really really become aware and inspect things the twisted logic as it takes place. (I'm wrong because ... I'm wrong. That type of 'logic')
As a software developer, I often look at this as compiled code. It's no longer in a human readable format and happens too fast to observe, it just executes like code does. (For the software developers, it's even more accurate to describe it with public, protected and private methods.)
But the point is, these are well worn neural pathways, every second millions of them get executed like wee little software mircroservices written by a 3 year old in a panic just trying to survive, and long before you've had a chance to process someone's words, the 'organism' has already heard them, determined their meaning, run the 3 year old's algorithm and coughed up what it thinks is a good response in the form of a cocktail of hormones and chemicals and thought snippets that make you think YOU actually thought that, SHOULD feel that, and that your immediate reaction is 'the capital 'T' Truth'. It's not that we THINK it's the truth, or that we BELIEVE it's the truth, it just IS the Truth.
Usually for us scapegoated types, that initial reaction is 'I must be wrong, even though I don't think I'm wrong, I'm just wrong and that's the state of things on this particular planet. I'm wrong and bad and hurtful'.
I CAN say that after many years of catching those instant outputs, and pulling up the courage when possible to go with my post-reflection intuition conclusion rather than the 'I'm wrong because I'm just wrong' initial compiled code response, the post-reflection intuitional answer, with NORMAL people (not my family!) is usually found to be quite sane and often even insightful (and sometimes wrong but not often!) by those around me or those with whom I check.
one of the greatest comments, thank you for the analogy...
You are on to something. Please continue to elaborate and share.
Analogies have a certain power but can be misleading as tools to examine a problem. Perhaps it is best to examine the problems we are experiencing from a first principles perspective: Our parents are humans. Humans are often flawed. Some flaws are worse than others. Some seriously flawed humans have children. They damage their children. Some of those children are us. We have to realize the flaws of our parents, accept that they damaged us and do our best to correct the damage.
💛 to you Jay and everyone in healing!!!! Thank you so much for your videos with wisdom and guidance. You are a true healer in a world of abuse. 🤲
👏👏
If you feel the TOXIC indifference of your parents & the world, you can choose to shift THIS EMPTY FEELING into CREATION, CREATE something with your pain & depression, fight for something you believe in that is just for you (whether its art/writing or dancing in the dark) & practice it every day! Remind yourself that YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST because YOU ARE HERE with all of us. And join one group that shares your passion, one group to allow yourself to experience how loving & safe HUMANS CAN TRULY BE!
4:34 - 5:03 This hits home so hard... I'm speechless
Absolutely
Thank you so much for your content! God bless all scapegoats with the support they never got, but definitely deserve 🙏
I was the only freshman and sophmore who made varsity field hockey. My mother made me quit. She made it hard at first, then impossible.
Thank you very much for helping children of narcissists
This is easily the or one of the most accurate descriptions of what I have experienced. Knowledge like this is incredibly affirming, especially after being devalued and gaslit most if not all of my life. I have a covert/vulnerable narcissistic mother (who is an alcoholic, high functioning) and a covert narc older sister - they are basically mean girls towards me. I have watched innumerable videos to educate myself on narcissism and understand what I have experienced, that it is not healthy or normal. I am now almost zero contact with them but I still struggle to function (ADHD, CPTSD, some OCD tendencies) despite having "so much potential," academic success, etc and doing therapy, etc. The part where you describe it as like a form of possession is SO accurate! I feel like its a never-ending journey to reclaim a sense of self and be able to navigate the basics of life. I truly appreciate your work!
Maby you want watch Dr. Ramani on youtube
Same here. 👍
This is incredibly helpful to myself and my adult son. I cannot thank you enough.
Thank you so much for your videos! I have probably listened to every UA-cam video on narcissism, I think, and I only recently found your channel! I guess I must be ready for what you have to say... I made a big, big mistake after not living close to my narcisistic mother for more than 30 years, I moved next door to her a couple of years ago and now I'm trying to get myself away from her again! I knew there was something wrong with her, but I only learned about personality disorders a few years ago!
It's such a trip what happens psychologically and if others haven't experienced they just can't really even fathom why it's so hard to extricate ourselves from these people!!
It almost feels like what's happening is a form of black magic!!! That's why I'm so glad to find your videos because you are explaining so perfectly my experience and just trying to get people to understand why I s a struggle to take care of myself and to drink water, etc...
Today I heard your video about training yourself to take time for meditation... You understand why it's so hard to sit!!!! And your advice is perfect!! I feel like I can finally exhale, this is the battle I've been having and my therapist is great but doesn't always seem to get this part of my struggle right now!!
Thank you, I can't tell you how much I am being helped through your videos!! Sending lots of hugs! :) Thank you!
Same here. 💛🍀
Thank you so much, Jay! Your wisdom is like a lighthouse. Makes me remember recovery is possible for me, which is not an easy thing to remember in the context of my retaliatory narcissistic relatives. May all of us who need the courage to rise up, find it!
At school I was described as vague. I was chronically tired, unable to concentrate, I know now I had PTSD. Along with being the scapegoat. I eventually broke down and at last someone cared even if it was a professional, but it saved my life.
Jay is so good to listen to, makes so much sense, tearing away the cobwebs of confusion. Im in Australia.
Thank you, Dr. Reid once again for a brilliant video. It all confirms my decision to stay no contact with my Narcissist mother and flying monkeys siblings. I still find myself confused at times about who I really am. But I know one thing for sure ... I am not even anywhere near the terrible person my parents wanted me to believe I am. My freedom from these mind programs are steadily increasing thanks to listening to your words along with some other therapists on this channel. I know the abuse and negativity was not my fault, I have gained distance from these abusers and I live in defiance of their rules. Praise God , I found my own worth, my own voice and inner strength. Have a wonderful weekend.
EXACTLY! Wishing you the best
Any tips? We're there any "saving graces" that helped on the way? I had a wonderful therapist when I was 22 who was loving & attentive, and that was healing.
@@sohara.... , very early in my recovery, meaning when the memories of the abuse started coming back, I was in therapy with a caring, wise and compassionate female psychologist. It was the first time I could talk to someone about the horrors of my childhood. About 10 years ago I was diagnosed with bipolar mood disorder and started seeing a psychiatrist who I trusted with all my secrets. He retired at the end of last year. I believe the trust I developed with this person over a nine year period helped me tremendously to know I can have healthy relationships. Of course this was all professional counseling but it meant so much to me that I knew I had unconditional acceptance from another human being. The medication I take also helps me with times of depression or anxiety. I practice yoga and meditate. Basically do as much as I can to show myself kindness and care. I hope this helps.
@@moirabij734 thank you 💛
I didn’t realize until I’m hearing you speak that this information was so formally known. I have only experienced denial by every adult, person & therapist I ever dealt with. This is exactly what I went through. I feel astounded and slmost shocked to hear this validation. I am in my 60s. Therapists only told me I was a sick liar.
I just want to cry and cry right now but I can’t because my dog is with me and it will upset him.
☹️ sorry you’ve went through this and then was invalided. ((Hugs)) the truth sets us free
I've been working on my personal maladaptive thought patterns. Sharing my notes here because it's been very helpful!
-Which emotions are mine? Do I feel this way or is this a family system feeling? Answer: You get to decide! Which emotions make sense? Sometimes emotions come and you can decide if you want to dwell on it, act on it, or drop it.
-It's ok to have empathy at the same time as grief, anger, etcetera. It's ok to have mixed emotions.
-Notice if you are looking for validation. Do you ask others to confirm your thoughts/actions often? Do you internally question your own actions obsessively? Notice, and challenge this.
Sometimes this comes up in my life as OCD. (Did I check GOOD ENOUGH?)
Notice if you are blaming yourself for things that are out of your control- and challenge it.
Write down who you want to be, and be those things. Funny, independent, smart, motivated, disciplined, free.
-If you feel anxious, acknowledge the anxiety. Don't try to push it away, or ignore it. It helps to separate the anxiety as a thing in the room instead of ignoring it.
Ty for the questions
@@sh6460 You're welcome! 🌺
Thank you for sharing your list. It is so important that we share because it is the only way we connect to others in a deeper manner, finding out how we are the same and how we are different, finding out that we are not alone. I have been asking myself who I am for sometime now. One of my answer is: I am the nobody my mom wanted me to be so that she wasn't alone in perpetuating her own helplessness, victimhood. Consciously or unconsciously, she made me her self-fulfilling prophecy. I bought it hook, line and sinker.
"Do you ask others to confirm your thoughts/action often? Do you internally question your own actions obsessively?" I am so guilty of this. Had you not pointed it out, I would not have realized how true it is and that I need to deal with it. Thank you for helping me.
@@nancybartley4610 You are so welcome, thank you for your kind response! It is very nice to hear that was helpful.
I have found the simplest rule to follow in all of this healing is: be aware of yourself. Aware of your thoughts, aware of your body position/posture. I found that I used to walk with my hands balled in a fist all the time and I didn't even realize it. It helps to unclench your body! I also have been doing the power pose, where you stretch your arms in to the sky. It helps me to take up space, too; be loud and sing. Our parents are not us, nor do they define us. We get to define ourselves.
When I say that your work is literally saving my life right now. I’ve watched countless Narcissistic abuse videos. Your work is in its own universe, every single line held purpose and punched straight to my soul. Thank you.
Thanks for this week's lesson Jay!!! I'm looking at my career progression and I find I am coming up against limiting beliefs about what I 'deserve' and I realise it comes back my childhood experiences :) I am step by step challenging these beliefs, for example I am getting physio for a shoulder injury because I deserve to be well in my body :) love and strength to everyone on their recovery!! We can do this!! It's amazing how wrong out abusers were about us :D
after dismantling my narcissistic inner parents i find it hard to motivate myself. i spent many years trying to please unpleasable parents and prove that im worth something. now that im not compulsive, terrified, desperate I dont know how to find normal motivation to pursue purpose. 50 years old and my parents have died.
Can so relate to your words. That is part of what they did to you. The only thing I can suggest is to pick one small thing each day and do it no matter what. I will share an example of mine.( Yours may not be even closely like mine. It is just for the purpose of example.) My car is filthy. It has been filthy for a long time and i am ashamed to offer anyone a ride. I will clean the floor mats today. The whole car is dirty but I can look at those mats and feel some forward movement. I actually started this action three days ago and have only taken the mats out of the car with the intention of cleaning them. So I am really struggling with motivation, but I put those dirty mats where i can see them. They do make me feel i'm making progress.
@@nancybartley4610 great job, and thanks for sharing your story and encouragement
Thank you both for your comments! As a young person, I was so used to achieving just to avoid negative stimulus (to avoid being attacked), got straight As, went to an Ivy League college then got a PhD, taught for a little while, had a child with a violent narc, then left the narc and spent 8 years to get my child protected, then pretty much collapsed. Most of my life I did not trust steady, incremental effort, I would procrastinate then binge-work then recover, but that is harder the older I get. Your remarks remind me to just keep making positive efforts, whether large or small.
@@gobigirl1 I think what you describe is what was projected onto us. We initially appear to succeed and then crash and burn as our parent so unfortunately needs us to do. On the other hand, getting those straight As, was that us or another demand made by a parent? Do they simultaneously was us to do well and fail at the same time? I got As to please my dad. I had no idea how to take academic success out into the real world and struggled in the working world. This fulfilled my mom's projection.
Water feature!
I have had a moment of "A-ha" watching this video. My inner voice has been always cruel, said I was defective, doubted if could ever do something right and diminish me. I t is as if suddenly I Have discovered it and understood. It was only a projection of my parents. How could I have suffered so much due to terrible patents! How egotistic they were! they always attacked me when I was suceeding. I have succeeded in so many areas! but the inner voice was always there, making me suffer
Yes. Yes. I can relate. Refreshing perspective that gives hope.
It’s so true, but so hard for a scapegoated child to view their parent(s) as hostile.
Thanks so much for the video.😊
Thank you so much for talking about this. I am a textbook scapegoat survivor and have experienced everything you mentioned in this video. It’s nice to know I’m not alone.
Like you. You have a nice voice, quite handsome, but most importantly seems to be very knowledgeable and even humble. It’s mostly coming out when you start to stater, when you talking about the followers growing numbers and attention. I can tell, it’s not your natural environment. Keep going! Thought there are many, who talking about the same topics, but personality matters. So you are not just one of them, but a relevant one. 😊
More terrifyingly was 1978 asking for help & being drugged into submission & after working to build a life my abusive parents jumped into same horror show in 2002 to 2006 when I went thru divorce! At 50 they took over & future fake help with housing & terrified I slept in my car age 50 alone. The same abuse continued until age 60 when I moved to another state & Jay Reid step mom was on charge of my housing & further terrified my son who helped me move!
My sister took over the normalized family pattern of scapegoating Lora & those cowardly fucks had to go after my children. Page 597 tom Clancy Executive orders
Thank you this is me to a T ,but my Husbands in the parent roll instead.
Wow! I'm only four minutes in to this video and recognize it as SPOT ON. I've watched countless videos on narcissism and have just started to watch 'scapegoat' videos. Jay is putting into words what I've been struggling to articulate. Thank you Jay!
Hi Jay, great content...i started listening to a lot of your content, since i am a scapegoated child from my mother. Thank you very much for your videos, they are really helpful. 🙏. On my path of still healing this abuse, i still cannot come to terms with the fact that this has happened to me..since i cut contact with mother and sister, i practically have no family..and this is the hard part..also spiritually, i cannot explain it to myself, why god has created kids in such a way, that their development can be so easily compromised from their own family and also that so many good, talented, great peoples' lifes are screwed up..i still find this truth very hurtful and to know, that you have to live with this truth, i find it very hard...like waiting that the moment that everything will be good will come..but there will not be such a moment, because your family will not change..thank you a lot 🙏
I went through these thoughts as well. What helped me may not help you, but I want to share. This happened TO me, not about me. And I am strong enough to break the cycle for my own life. For whatever reason that insight grounded me and I was able to move on somewhat and focus on climbing out of the hell hole.
@@susannashaffer7911 thank you very much Susanna. That is helpful.
Hello jothriny, I feel exactly the same! I can't understand how a mother can treat one of her children so awfully. I was never worth enough to get any answers. She just turns her head away.
As I always tried to give my best while feeling ashamed of myself deep inside of me, I exhausted myself so much that I can't manage to work full time anymore. I am so exhausted! And it makes me so sad.
It sucks. First we have to realize that what Jay is telling us is probably true. That isn't as easy as it sounds. We begin to accept the truth but we are so good at backpedaling and denying. The closer we get to realizing the truth the readier we are to accept it. Realization and acceptance are not the same. I don't know which is harder. I think realization is an intellectual process and acceptance is an emotional one. Anyhow, good luck to you. Actually, a lot more than luck is involved.
@@nancybartley4610 so true, Nancy! Those are the first steps. Realisation and acceptance.
I spent 48 years believing I was a horrible child and that it was my fault my parents couldn’t love me ( they actually said this to me). Is there any acknowledgment from the narcissist and enabler that they are projecting their shit onto their child? Is there any insight from them at all?
No acknowledgment, no insight from narcs ever, no.
Move along. Get new heathy loving honest growing people, they are the real family.
See that hurts like crap, when I realized that my school performance being judged and me being punished for anything less than an A was not for my own benefit at the end of the day. It was just regular good ole abuse. It was just abuse and devaluation.
They don't care about knowledge, science, learning... they just wanted to beat me up!
I came to this realization a long time ago, how much my own father sabotaged me in all my desires, and studies, and underestimated, controlled, criticized, insulted, hit me. It was always the hardest way to go when it came to me. It has been his soul food for as long as I can remember, and today my brother is the same father. These monsters absolutely never change. Some are more covert and some less so, but both secretly enjoy your suffering. Extremely sick and twisted.
don't forget that the scapegoat is very powerful. we are strong :)
The therapist example was incredible. It’s made me realise why I did so poorly with a very expensive therapist who practiced mostly silence through sessions. That may be perfect for me one day- but it was too soon for me to be ready for that flooding of doubt, shame, state of uncertainty. Whereas it helped me realise why I did so well with a blunt, to the point counsellor- I wasn’t suspended in that oh-so familiar state of total uncertainty and, by virtue, loss of safety. This has really helped me realise (well, countless things. Every single line was an awakening to my soul) but also what sort of therapist I need at this time. Thank you a million times over
ALL 6 BILLION OF US are moving through space & time TOGETHER, sharing the very air we breathe! Everything around us is created by humans, everywhere we go there are others with us, on earth, we humans are all interconnected! This idea that we are alone is a myth, we are just lonely, hurt by our families & the world & lost. As children we were forced to submit to our abusive/cold parents, but as ADULTS we can learn to practice selfcare & STAND UP for OURSELVES & others TOGETHER!
I needed this video so much right now.
My covert narcissistic Mother is still alive and wanted to phone me.
She is trying to reach out to me.
Especially to the date at okt 31 and Nov 1.
The one that is coming.
But thankfully I listened to this video.
I realized...
It is my right to stay away from the narcissist and the family members who all scapegoating me.
In order to heal I need to stay away from them.
I stay firm my truth.
It helped me so much to see this confirmation.
Otherwise I sometimes lose focus.
It helped me so much.
I am grateful for this help.
Thank you Jay. Every single video you have made has given me a fresh revelation on my upbringing and my life. You’re doing wonderful work.
I felt cleansed then i started to feel weak .I have learnt a few hours ago that i have been abused by my narc family members like mother,father,sister...feelings hurt
Yes, it a cycle that keeps repeating until we find a way to cope with the damage. The weakness indicates the depth of the damage done. I would like to say we can correct the damage, but I don't know if we can ever do more than learn to cope. I do believe that the more you accept that your parents damaged you, the less often weakness will return.
What is good is that you take us beyond the education of narcissism into ourselves, the trainwreck left behind. I have had a lifetime of them, starting with a cruel narc mother and 5 compliant siblings. Added to mix were the continual beatings starting before I could walk. So I traveled the path, to violent narc husband, narc daughter and her ex. Finally from the fog I comprehend these patterns. Now I am focussed on being the most authentic me I can be going forward, but finding help in putting the pieces back. I've been broken and lost but always defiant. I have proved I can damage me more than they can in a warped sort of 'win'. I truly wish a future not based on the past, as the pain of abuse is too much to bear. I'm actually quite a happy person, I laugh a lot. Zero contact siblings 23 yrs now, ex husband occasional necessary contact since 1979. Narc daughter one year now. I have nice people around me, which I believe is vital. Also without my Nanna, whom I lived with between 4 and 8 I really don't know what would have become of me. You did ask for feedback. I'm nearly 73 yrs old.
My brother's greed to get on the deed, prompted me to look into property I own. Mommy Dearest has passed. Even after death she tried to stitch me up. Leaving her half to 3 other siblings not me. If they want the property, they can buy me out now. Iwas going to gift it in my will. My eyes are wide open at 71 yrs of age!
As a teenager I was very angry and rebellious. I dropped out of high school at 16. I often as a teenager I was very angry and rebellious. I dropped out of high school at 16. I had very little stability financially or otherwise for a very long time. I often wondered why in my 20s my mother and I got along so well. I'm pretty sure it's because I needed her help. When I got married and had a child, her controlling behavior and rages got out of hand. I just couldn't figure it out. I'm now pretty sure that it's because I didn't "need" her. I was no longer "one down" from her - so she was working overtime to put me back there. What a truly sad state of affairs. It's done so much damage.
Home run with this one Jay. You describe the utter impossibility of being the scapegoat so well. It is indeed like a spell or a possession. And giving up one's gold, to appease the narcissistic other - such a confronting thing to realise. I've been clipping my own wings since childhood, because its how I imagined I'd get 'love' and acceptance. Damn confronting stuff.
Hi Dr Jay.
Can you do a video on Institutional Betrayal and The Scapegoat?
I found the dynamics identical to biological family.
But moreover, the difference was the scapegoating was worse, and the tribal gaslighting and abuse was worse.
Family is somewhat contained. Mom. Dad. Brother. Sister.
Institution abuse and betrayal are a slew of professionals and their superiors as the parental roles.
Then the hoards, gangs, and groups of let's say ur university students as the brother sister tribe.
Thanks for your consideration Dr Reid.
I just went through a year and half of 2 institutions who denied me rights to file complaints of sexual harassment.
Then an escalation of threats of rape and murder. Again I was denied.
And a further and very dangerous escalation of stalking me at my private home and phone number.
Both institutions claimed I didn't have the right to ask for written conduct reports or suspension of the student bc in order to allow the student aka me to file, the staff had to witness the crimes.
When I stood my ground stating the irrational explanations negated Federal Civil Rights Statutes, I was then declined services from these 2 institutions.
By the way, both of which are supposed to assist and advocate for people with disabilities.
I think it almost hurts worse than what I survived growing up.
You stood up for yourself and in some institutions that can be destructively discouraged. Power to you.
you are bang on Jay. Im a 58 year old woman who is now struggling from pervasive rheumatoid and osteo arthritis. also recently diagnosed with BPD. I was an all star athlete and an A student in junior high. full of life as a young child, funny, good and out loving being me. but after not a long time, by the age of 6, i decided that i was very alone. so much more to say about my childhood. for now...im terrified and invisible
Thank you for covering these topics so kindly
Brilliant therapist! 👏
My sense is that the role can shift from one child to another at different points in the family development. When I physically moved away (to college at 17), a younger sibling became the scapegoat. I still feel survivor guilt since figuring this out. And I do see elements of this dynamic even with the golden children, who also suffered from collateral damage.
This is SO familiar! Your videos are dense with information, which is a compliment, and I find myself re-listening several times! Thank you for sharing your insights. Scapegoats have gotten so little attention but you are really bringing light to our experience! It’s the abuse everyone participates in either on a macro or micro level. It happens within families, at school and jobs, etc. it’s like the final barrier? What would mass manipulation be without scapegoating? To face it is to change our whole society. To face it means demanding people look at themselves.
Thank you so much Jay for opening my eyes and heart. I have been tormenting myself for 33 years. Since I was 20. Feeling that I was flawed in some fundamental way. Thanks to you I am beginning to understand the role I was put into, and the way I was seen, and how this was not my true self. Children have to survive and make the 'best' of a bad situation, and they do this by carrying the load as you say. With thanks from my heart.
I can't tell you enough how much it helps to put into words what we 1.) experienced 2.) why the narc parent had to push us down .3) that we absolutely could only be accepted if we severely limited ourselves . 4) and that finally with this education I can see the absolute damaging set up that does to scapegoats to self blame on auto pilot to question ourselves on autopilot and to accept blame . You mentioned that if we had a good enough parent and developed self worth we wouldn't be accepting choosing such bad associations . I was absolutely screemed at and yelled at to where I don't think people understand the type of yelling a narcissit can do that it's in an all out world f control rage attack ..... What I would have given to have had this explained to me when I was a child and turned teenager . This video helped me to see why they hated and despised me just tuning older and I have never been seen as anyone outside of that box they pushed me into...
ONG!! Once again you describe dynamics between me and my mother. Thank you Jay.
I’ve been under mine so much manipulated so much. I don’t know what to do. I’m confused. I think I am sociopathic aSPD. I’m currently homeless sleeping on friend couches. I feel like a loser I feel pathetic humiliated and angry on a daily basis.
It's hard to decide which of your videos is the best, on the contrary, it's very easy to wish you only the very best.
Blessings dr. Jay. Best regards and endless gratitude to you and your "impossible" mission.
Listening to this, I can see how this was done to me and how I responded to bear the pain. Then I can see how I passed this on to my children. Time to address it, correct it, and make amends.
God bless you. 🙏
Greetings from Sweden 🇸🇪
Another amazingly helpful video. I love your content. I'm not sure if you've covered it, but could you do a video about how procrastination, executive functioning issues, dissociation, and/or distorted sense of time can be aftereffects of scapegoating?
you said it in another one about feeling Unsafe
this video was very good, describes what i had gone through. Would be interesting to do a video on how the other siblings also comply with the parent's projection onto the scapegoated child and continue to treat their sibling as the defective one way into adulthood. Your videos are extremely helpful and insightful, keep up the good work!
I cant leave these people cause I dont have money. There are no resources to help us. I'm tired
Baby steps
That’s my problem. I have absolutely no resources. In a malignant narcissistic mother controlling my family. I’m alone
Why did this have to happen to me
I was married and in my early twenties. My narcissistic, mother still tried to control me, and when she couldn’t, she just disowned me, for 40 years. She did get in touch with me, 2 years before she passed to mend fences and of course I fell for it. I helped her when she was dying . But I’m the end I got screwed, she left me, $1.00, in her Will. My sister and brother got over $ 200, 000. each. She was just trying to clear her conscience. Never said she was sorry to me. But did say she. “ Love me”. Too little, too late “. Dumb me. But I was there for my Mother, even though she was NEVER there for me.😢😢😢😢😢. Rosie
Very well explained and I was agreeing with much of what you said as I went through this with my mother. Your videos are so helpful and explain what goes on with the narcissistic parent. Thank you.
Thank you Jay for this superlative Information ❤️
Thank You so much for this AMAZING explanation ! You are the best therapist in understanding what the child has had to do to themselves in order to get along with the impossible demands of the narc parent . the way you break down each action and reaction is truly insightful and so very helpful in understanding oneself . It is what I experienced also . This is healing .