Offline vs Realtime Export - Which one Sounds Better?
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- Опубліковано 3 бер 2020
- Offline vs Realtime Export - Which one Sounds Better?
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Nailed it Chris! Thanks for putting this to rest once and for all!
There you go! Thanks, bro :-)
I did a similar test on my own in Cubase years ago because I kept hearing claims that ProTools offline renders were inferior to real-time renders. It made me worry that I was “doing it wrong” in Cubase.
My results were the same as yours. Reverbs and modulation effects that are never exactly the same twice stood out in the null test. Removing those plugs resulted in a perfect null.
Thanks a lot Chris. This is a very interesting topic and finally is revealed.
Hi Chris, Thank you for explaining that, it makes sense that plugins, especially analogue emulations add randomness, great content, all the best.
Many thanks Chris for your suggestions and practical explanations!
Great video Chris! Thanks for this one. Very interesting.
Such a good video! Thank you so much!! This is an incredible shootout and it answered all the questions I was having when mixing down.
Some plugins recognize that they are in 'offline rendering/mixdown mode' and they can make use of different quality settings, higher oversampling rates, interpolation etc. This is the case for Frontier and Kontakt plugins for example.
Good to know! Thanks!
Yep. In REAPER, that's why I will usually set it to Offline 1x mode.
Great video, Chris! A topic many may not even think about.
Yup, quite a few plugins do this, hence offline possibly sounding slightly different
Great info Chris, thank you very much!
Great video and thanks for the time you took todo this. Giving back is always appreciated.
You're welcome!
Wow, that is interesting, great test. Again i have learned something. Many thanks.
This is a great video on the subject Chris. I mainly use offline. I do use Realtime when I want to listen to the music while it is exporting. However, I do rarely export this way.
Great vid! Glad it comes down to personal preference and without differences in quality 😉
Hello Chris...very much impressed by your clean n clear approach in explaining things.
thanks a lot :-)
This was really helpful. Thank you
The inverted phase null test result wasn't what I was expecting. It sounds more like a volume difference between samples rather than a quality or randomness issue. Good to know that the quality in Cubase is consistent though :)
Nice comparison and method!
Awesome video as usual!
Thats very clarifying for me
Glad it was helpful!
So cool Chris!
Thank you for this test Chris. Thank you so much!
You're more than welcome!
Thank you Chris for your comments they are a very good help for all of us
You're welcome
This is brilliant! You dont get this anywhere else!
Great job..thanks chris
You're welcome!
Thanks for the video
Of course!
Thanks for your channel, I'm learning every day on my cubase 8 (I didn't bother upgrade for the last 4 years)...
Awesome!, Happy you learn stuff out of my videos, that's my goal :-)
@@mixdownonline what about a video about taming harsh live cymbals? I'm struggling with mine, perhaps because of wrong placement, wrong room and / or wrong mixing techniques.
thank you sir
Finally no different so much ...... thanks for the video ! can you make a video using internal routing / re routing to the soundcard before printing the audio ?
Hello from Vancouver! Great video - thank you. I find that when I export to MP3 (highest rez setting) the difference between the native Cubase file and the MP3 is VERY different. Where I notice it most is in the stereo spectrum as it seems to lose so much dimensional quality that it - for lack of a better word SUCKS. I've read others who have had the same experience. I'm not sure if that is a CODEC issue in terms of what Steinberg is using in Cubase or what it is. MP3 is such a mainstay of how people send out demos that it's a real issue. I understand that the problem may be with me - hahaha. Stay safe everyone!
That was very interesting. It is a question that is always present and one can read in a lot of places claimings saying that real time should be better, maybe repeating what was read in another place, and so on.
Yes, there's a lot of different claims out there. That's why I needed to test for myself and the Mixdown Online community :-)
Fantastic
Thanks, Chris -- this was a question I had only two days ago. Now I know.
Glad I could help!
Good explanation. Do you think, in terms of quality, is there some difference between, reder in place, bounce selection, offline process and export audio mixdown. During the production specially in electronic music we tend to make a lot of crazy tweaks and effects and those are fast if we make it on the flow as fast as possible, instead of solo a track and export audio mixdown on a new track on the project.
Genial, amigo. Gracias.
De nada Alex!
If you have the external effect processors, it's ok to real-time export...
I think there is no more differerences that we can hear.
Thankyou sir you are great ❤👍🏼
Most welcome
This was really good, Ya Know there comes a point where we just can't hear some things. Just Rock On!!!
Great i like it
Great !
Do the differences between exporting a mix and printing it in the project still make you personally choose one over the other?
Cheers Chris, really interesting. Recent subscriber, Cubase user and loving the channel!
Excelent info
Thanks!
Bravo 👍
I also have a question, if you don't mind, I have a problem with the export, I create a sound in cubase 12 and then when I export the song with the master, it still doesn't sound like it should, can you tell me what the problem would be, I mention that I have a Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 3rd Gen if this were the only problem, I would buy another sound card like Apollo
Really interesting. I have an extra question : what about CD burning? What is better for sound quality slow or fast speed burning?
Hello, Sir
When I check in real time export a file then the file is not export and it comes out as written
"A CPU overload Occured during the export "
i don't know what to do please help me and reply me
Hi, how do I print a track that goes through my little SSL deck and to the fusion connected to the insert deck. Maybe the real time bounce was born for this? I 'see' the signal enter my SSL desk ... and re-enter: is the re-entry signal the one printed by Cubase? Thanks for your kind attention.
Hey Chris, will exporting vocals that have real-time pitch correction on them sound different when choosing offline export?
Thanks from morroco
When using hardware synths it is only possible to export in realtime, which is kinda obvious. Or you can render those tracks in place, which also needs to be done in realtime.
Yep, all in Realtime with analog gear!
Hi Chris another great video! When I real-time export I get a error message disk overload occurred during the export I change the buffer size to the highest level 2048 and it still shows error regular export works fine. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cubase 12 pro mac book pro m1. Thanks so much for your time.
Great to finally get an answere to to that question. I didn't hear any difference ( I know It's UA-cam ;) )
Great video thank you! Do you know if the clock in an interface effects a digital render? So for example if you had a high end interface or dedicated high end clock would it sound any different?
The clock on an interface is to use when another device is connected to an interface that requires Sample Rate sync. For example, I have a 16 channel A/D converter connected to my interface, so I use the clock from my converter to my interface to keep the sample rate in sync. If both units are not synced to the same clock, you will get glitches when listening to Audio from your DAW
I use Steinberg MIDI gate plugin that stops sounds every time where's there no midi note, I do some bright pauses with it. And in one of my projects it affects export: when I use offline export, I get a mix with midi-gated tracks totally missing. When I use real-time export, everything is OK. I don't know why it happens.
printed version has certain latency (if you convert twice more)....that's a slight phase difference in the high frequencies....correct me if I'm wrong....but there's a thing with frequencies and timing.
Maybe you're right, not sure, but the important thing is that the Audio Quality is not affected :-)
Allo Chris,
Moi j'ai toujours pensé que d'exporter en temps réel aidait à garder les automations, car sans cela il risquait de ne pas être enregistré, selon ce que tu sembles dire ce n'est pas le cas ?
Bonne journée !
Are you referring to the Cubase ‘direct offline processing’ function here? (would be good to do a video if not). I thought that feature was going to be the holy grail but I hear differences (not randomisation) when I use that vs running the same plugins as inserts with the same settings (null test). It seems to me there are some signal flow differences. I reverted back to simply rendering in place so I get the actual sound of the channel as setup with inserts/sends. Would be good for you to deep dive into that function.
Not referring to DOP. Never made that test so far!
Great Chris really interesting topic.
Please... How do I get my vocals to sound like your VOICE in this video? [ I mean your REAL VOICE CHRIS ] Sounds GREAT
Chris! I don't know what's happening but for some reason when I do offline mixing in Cubase just MIDI instruments are exporting. Any idea why my audio tracks are not rendering? This is a new annoying occurence when I upgraded my mac.
If your Output selection Channel is setup to MASTER in the Export window, it should render everything going into the Master Output
you should try to play the result of your bounce track outside the cubase.. not to play your bounce inside your DAW, its totally same. you should play your .wav in media player such as windows media player, vlc or else.. that you’ll found the difference. now my question is, how i can reach the same result of my mix from DAW that i already exported to wav. the sound is totally different when i hear inside the DAW (Cubase) then i played at media player in windows or else. you should try.. maybe you can find out the answer of my horror question.. big thanks! sorry if i bothered you..😅
Interesting
:)
Your training will benefit you !!!
Genial
Regarding your assumptions around 6:39. Could it be the case that Cubase simply needs to process audio 1st before being able to record it? By this you get a little offset and would explain the difference. But it might not be a different in quality, but only a difference by time shift. If you zoom in, can you see something like such an offset?
The difference between print and bounce could be delay? I noticed that de diferente is mainly hi frequency. Bass goes away easily than the highs as they have longer wavelength
Thought so too, that delay could be an issue, but that's not the case... They are perfectly in sync and you can see some small visual differences when you zoom in the waveform and compare Print with Realtime. And the blind test speaks for itself ;-)
Hi Chris, does audio buffer size affect bounces and rendering? I have seen the difference when null test performed and could clearly hear transients and some are not appear at the same location when bounced multiple times with different buffer size. My understanding was realtime printing can be affected by buffer size but not offline one but i was wrong. It will be good hear your views on this topic. May be next video :)
Buffer size does not affect rendering, it will add latency to go easy on processing power which doesn't affect what is coming out of your speakers unless you're recording and Monitor through your DAW.
Chris ! u r the best !! come Israel we eat Hummus in Tel-Aviv ! I invite 😊
Hi Chris - Is it ok/good to use the 0print approach so that you can normalize your master using luffs - cubase 10.5 pro - is this the right way? My exports always seem a bit quiet
Check my last video :-) ua-cam.com/video/Buno4AGy3ts/v-deo.html
Thanks and bravo for the video!
However, in small (iPad) speakers the printed track sounds a tiny bit brighter (it's easy to listen when you focus at the snare hit).
Were you able to point out which version was which from the blibd test? ;-)
@@mixdownonline hey Chris.. I may was wrong - a placebo probably. Today I listened again to my studio monitors (Dynaudio BM15A) and I didn't notice any difference between the tracks. I'll try to have again a listen through the iPad where there the focus is on the high range and if I notice something I will come back by giving the number of bars for each one of the 2 blind tests. Anyway, I am a fan of your videos, thanks once again for your inspirational work.
Maybe I'm asking a dumb question, but If Cubase compensates the latency for plugins how come an exported audio file has a delay? When I'm exporting a mix, the exported file starts a bit later than the it supposed to start...looking at the first bar, the song starts 0,5 seconds later. This is not a problem for a mix, but it's a huge problem when exporting separate tracks, because it's impossible for someone else to use them. I tried both methods (off line and real time) with the same results 😭.
Idk most of the demos i get(recorded on other daws) are way louder than my mastered exports on cubase every time
So, I just recently upgraded to Cubase Artist. When I attempt to do a real-time export, I hear nothing. there is a slider icon like a side-ways letter V, ... but no way to get any volume at all. How do I get an audition volume? Thanks Sir.
Turn Control Room on.
Will offline exporting a printed VSTi for example, have a sound difference to just directly exporting an active VSTi plugin?
Or to take idea to the extreme, imagine printing in the session, then offline exporting, then importing in new session, printing and exporting again. Will there be sound degradation after several cycles? In a digital world it shouldn't matter right?
Not something I do. Try it! Listen to the final result and let me know if you hear any sound deterioration :-)
Fantastic video! This hasn't been discussed properly, until now! When i recently bounced a mix with vsti's and plugins, in offline mode I was getting a few clicks, exporting in realtime solved this. I've never had any problems in the past with offline so, i put it down to a random plug-in issue. Had i restarted it may have solved this issue too. Just thought i'd share my experience. Thanks for your great videos Chris!
You're welcome!
If the vid showed the output meter it would give an idea of the levels of difference in each case to give an objective sense of the amount of difference between methods..
All versions were bounced at the same volume with the same signal path. As you can hear on the blind test, there's no volume differences
@@mixdownonline Hey Chris - I'm thinking of the difference on the null tests - to illustrate the delta (if any) between the random differences on different exports using the same method, and exports using different methods. I've done the same experiment and the differences over studio monitors are vanishingly small to the point where I simply couldn't reliably tell which was which, over YT compression probably pretty much impossible to hear - interesting to know if the level differences are down in the -60 dB region or higher. Love what you do by the way, and I think I have the same lamp as you (and more disturbingly, what appears to be the same tattoo) :-) . Take care, Andi
This is super cool, but it raises the question why the realtime/offline option anyway if they're the same? 🤔 Was it just Cubase giving an option just for the sake of having the option or was it something else 🤔 might not sleep tonight cause of this... 🤔 send help... 🤔
When you use external midi controlled hardware synthesizers or effects you have to use realtime mixdown because they are not calculated by CPU.
@@no9or9 aha, ok, didn't know that 🙂 thanks! 🙂
Great! Please tell me what song is in the blind test?
That's one of my songs ua-cam.com/video/PEroU_HtVxk/v-deo.html
Chris Selim - Mixdown Online Thank you! 😍
1:40 1:52
I do hear a differece between the first in the switching succession and all others that are not repeats of the first. (the 1st 4 secs of the begining) The stereo width seems to collapse some on those others. (the 1st 4 secs of the song begining) It opens back up once again before it ends...so you must have played the first one twice...at least that's what i am hearing. Maybe something with mid/side ?
Actually, there are 2 versions in the first 4 sec. Here's the layout: Realtime (0 to 2.5) -Offline (2.5 to 5.6)-Realtime(5.6 to 8)-Print(8 to 9.9)-Offline(9.9 to 11.3)-Print(11.3 to 12.7)-Realtime(12.7 to 14.5)-Offline(14.5 to end) 😉
@@mixdownonline Thanks for marker times Chris. What I must have been hearing is an audible bass/mid-bass power dropout at the 2nd measure.( @ full step note change) So...I have to say if no one even heard that...I guess hearing different rendering methods will not be audible on YT.
@@mixdownonline Chris, to add to my 1st reply to you, I noticed the 2nd time those two measures I refer to above occur, the 2nd group sound fine...without a noticeable drop. (See my file dload link) I only 'cut' all the rest and left those two groups.
www.mediafire.com/file/h9b10mb9g8sl6ii/renders.mp3/file
I can hear each measure is musically not the same. To really make a true A/B test I would recommend using the same sample file for each different rendering method, rather then switching within a changing song/performance.
@@annode I think you're overthinking this. You have the "True" A/B test at 9:13 btw. If there was a difference between the 3, it would be easily noticeable and from what I can hear, there's no difference whatsoever :-)
@@mixdownonline Showing that your last test was inherently flawed I don't believe is overthinking it, but yes, your earlier test is valid showing no apparent differences. :)
Can anyone do this in Pro Tools?
Lots of users claim on PT is better to bounce in real time
Not sure with PT, never tried it!
thanks ... save me sooo much time. cheer 🍻
Real time export never seems to work right for me in Cubase. Almost always get a ridiculous disk read error.
Have you tried to export on an other hard drive?
@@mixdownonline No, but I've read that it can be a common issue with Cubase. Seems to be a glitch in the software possibly(?). Hopefully they'll figure it out since it would be nice to have that option that would "work" on a reliable basis.
print is probably different because of latency. maybe if you nudge the track it will cancel out
I thought so too, but that's not the case...They are perfectly in sync and you can see some small visual differences when you zoom in the waveform and compare Print with Realtime
Chris Selim - Mixdown Online I am actually surprised any of them are the same. When you think about the randomness of Reverbs and delays moving around also
1:38 offline export
1:51 real time export
Which one is better for you???
I did Offline for years but now Realtime is what I use the most since I'm using a bit of analog gear in a lot of my mixes
The bastard..the bad mother
sorry for my ignorance... but I guessing if all goes digitally, it should be exactly the same
Just watch the vid ;-)
@@mixdownonline will do. Ive commented before it was available
More talk less practical ... Substandard ...
Great i like it