As a 71 year old Gramma, I have been running Bobcats since way before roll cages. Have a 743 with a Kabota engine that is still going strong. A Bobcat without hydraulics over hydraulics and no foot pedal controls just is not a Bobcat! Think the next machine I just might have to look seriously to Kabota. I can lift a kitten out of a pickup with my old Bobcat and set big rocks in a landscape as if by hand. Thanks for the very informative demo.
Thanks for sharing this--I'd bet you have some good stories. I would definitely recommend checking out a Kubota; from my experience, the hydraulic/hydraulic joysticks are even more responsive than hand/foot controls in a bobcat.
@@josie4065 Maybe true that.... but bought my Bobcat 743 with bucket, forks, backhoe for $10 grand 21 years ago and it and I ( now 74) are still going strong! And it is paid for! Your new Kabotas are wonderful, but I'll think on one in my next lifetime!! Thanks for the reply, Josiah.
I have a 763 and a 743 I call it little Godzilla. I don’t plan on getting rid of them for something newer. And you are right Granny when you said it’s not a Bobcat without foot controls. 👍
Electric joysticks and controls are the norm in almost all new construction equipment. Using electric joysticks allows the manufacturer to remove twelve pilot hoses from the operator's platform. This also removes hydraulic heat from the cab, removes the inevitable hydraulic oil leaks, and removes hydraulic noise and vibration from the operator's station. Electric joysticks allow for infinite adjustability, and simple control pattern changes. Now, with all that said...I still prefer hydraulic pilot operated controls.
With bobcat I would only recommend the foot control machines. Once you get used to using your feet to control the bucket and your hands to steer it works amazing. I’ve been finishing grading with a t770 now for about 5 years and I was used to pilot controled cats before it started running bobcats with this new company. It took a little getting used to but now I only run foot control bobcats. It’s so much more precise when grading in tight spots.
I have not operated a Kubota but have Cat and Bobcat. I really liked the spacious cab of the Kubota Also I like having the glass go overhead instead of like a door. Better escape option
I own a bobcat t590 . An electric over hydraulic system has a slower response time, no doubt. However they operate the same way. I have ran almost every brand. It’s a matter of preference and parts availability.
I own an svl95-2 I bought in 2018. I like the instant response of the hydrolic system. My machine is high flow and it's a powerhouse . I had the def injector fail and take the wiring harness out with it at only 50hrs. Repaired by Kubota under warranty but it is a widespread issue on this model with tier 4 engine. I hate def fluid. Other than that the machine is great.
Thanks for the video, well spoken, I realize now why I'm having a bit more trouble getting used to my new cat 259D (compared to the Terex PT50 I had for several years). The Cat does have however 3 response level settings for both the travel and loader controls which helps with the lag, but there is still some..Cat does offer a shake-out mode, return to dig, and work tool positioner modes as options which can help.
We always called the bobcat the turtle. Strong as all get out but very slow. Had chronic problems with the electronic pilot controls also. It was the newer 870 and would random lock out and throw a code. Never could get it figured out.
You always have some good reviews. My local Kubota dealer is trying to find me a SSV 65 for my farm. Yes, I have driven a 75 and the 65 will should be close to the same.
I really enjoy this comparison. I also prefer the hyd over hyd - I happened to operate a Elec over Hyd the following day after I saw the video and was reminded of my preference. However, I think anyone operating long enough can get used to either control style.
Kyle Riegle nope. Electronic will only do what it thinks you want it to do. Yeah, I can get the job done. But it doesn't compare with full analog and a good operator. You can feel everything. Electronic there is absolutely no feedback.
Just purchased a 2016 Kabota SLV 75 and have been watching all the pro’s and con’s videos and ill tell yea the Kabota does not have many con’s going on. I expected no less I have owned a 1995 Kabota 2910 tractor and it is a beast and can pull tree’s move dirt like no other TO A POINT . Just changed front tires (yea 20 year old tires) and the bucket hydrolic line man a whole 100 bucks for three of them Kabota owes me nothing for this machine and I hope and believe my new to me skid steer will be the same
Bobcat was only a good machine, when it was the only machine. Now, they're just over priced and continue to not be an operators machine. Even when you max out the controls for the bobcat, it's still an unpredictable machine. Theres so many advantages to the Kubota, the way the door opens, visibility all around the machine, serviceability, and how quick the controls are. The company I work for, I have had the ability to operate several different skid steers, between Bobcat, Kubota, Cat, Komatsu, Takeuchi, and ASV. My favorite machines has been the Kubota and Takeuchi because of their speed and how predictable they are.
We still have an older Bobcat machine with those electronic controls. You are correct sir, they suck in comparison. Newer Bobcat controls are quite a bit better than the machine in your demo but anyone that's used to hydro-hydro joystick (like Kubota) will most likely prefer hydro-hydro joysticks at the end of the day.
HAD FOOT/HAND FOR 40+ YRS. THEN BOUGHT A 2014 S650 W/ JOYSTICKS. OMG. CLEARED 40 ACRES BEFORE I GOT IT TURNED AROUND. LOL. NOW...GOT USED TO IT AND DON'T THINK I'D GO BACK TO FEET AGAIN. LIKE THE JOYSTICKS THAT MUCH
Keep it simple,hyd over hyd.With all the new pollutution and changes in controls,the simpler and more reliable,the better for the buyer in the long run.I'd rather change a hyd. line than have to truck it to a dealer for an electrical hyd. repair.All this new tech. is getting harder and more expensive even for the guy with a backyard shop.Just my thought.
I have the same machine, you can adjust joystick sensitivity by pressing two buttons. I like your videos neal but this is not a good representation of bobcat joysticks. Three sensitivity settings Dr1 dr2 dr3 is very easy to change.
I work on bobcats at a dealership, and with the new track loaders/ skid steers you can actually adjust the sensitivity of your joysticks, so when you shake the bucket it will go. They have it laid back for safety reasons and for people just simply getting used to it. Don’t get me wrong, linkages are definitely my favourite, but linkages wear, and the quality of the work gets worse in theory, where as electric actuators (in theory) should be perfect every time
You made a video on why landscaping companies love the bobcat. The delay and direct control is why they like these in tight areas. Also it's a 320 which stopped being made in what? 2004. Compared to a much newer Kubota. Compare same generations or don't compare at all.
Can You please do this test again with a BRAND NEW Bobcat T650 (or related model to Kubota) Just so its a fair test because The T320's are discontinued
I was quite clear that the point was not to compare the machines. There are differences in the feel of the sticks between units and its worth getting in the seat and feeling it out yourself.
Stick moving force is the same between these 2 machines. Hydro moving hydro vs electronic moving servo moving hydro. Same force needed for ether. Understand yet?
Yeah no. With hydraulic, it does what the hell you tell it. Shake. And you don't have to sit there and mess with it an hour to get sticky dirt or mud out. Or rock it back to scoop more. Maybe if you have limp wrists it may be a big deal. Bobcat controls suck, the machine itself sucks it's all terrible. Everything he is showing, is true. And I DO run this shit every day. Have since I was 9. Running attacthments, I'll agree. Having to hold the end of the stick tilted to run trencher or something for long periods sucks. But loading dirt, it's less work with a machine that does what you tell it rather than talk back or do nothing at all, if you know what you're doing and are smooth.
I have a 2014 T650. I think there's a lot of merit to this video with they hydraulic over hydraulic responsiveness with this Kubota and shaking a bucket, or quickly turning. But I do like the electronic over hydrualic when handling materials with forks, much finer control. I could always buy a shaker bucket.
You didn't mention advantages of electronic joysticks. With Selectable Joystick on Bobcat you can setup/adjust delay reaction of your movements - remove delay if you are working on flat surface or set delay of reaction if you are in terrain area to avoid unpredictable movements of joystick when jumping over the hills.
The 75 vs a 320 is boy vs man and the bobcat is twice the mechine but I really love how kubota still offers hydro over hydro but it really annoys me that they don't offer h pattern any more that's the only way to go
Was a while back but do think even back then you could "tune" the sensitivity of joystick and did not came with the quickest one..:) Later ones on quick sensitivity is fast on response..:)
I completely agree, I hate bobcats electric hand controls. Both sticks and movements are awful. Not responsive enough when you need it and to responsive when you don’t need it. But I love and prefer bobcats with hand/foot controls over any other brand and setup. Nothing I can’t pick up or do with high precision on one. Yes it can make your legs sore, but your body gets use to it and isn’t a problem.
so driving a electronic over hydraulic is like playing a laggy connection in a computer shooter game. Maybe the engineers need to see what amount of lag time is critical.
I'd put any Kubota against a bobcat any day!!!! I've owned them all. Kubota hands down on all levels.. simple, productive,never in the shop. I've had seventeen Kubotas in my fleet, over last 8 years. They keep going. Go ahead an keep your kitty. Or do yourself a favor and run some other machine's. Lol
unless you loading a trommel screener with compost and the loaders not big enough and you have to launch the material upwards to get it in, the control was my right foot on the deere loader I was using almost the same foot motion for playing john bohnam style kick drum, its good practice! lolol
I’ll take a newholland ls 190 any day owned both bobcat kubota caterpiller John Deere new holland beats them all in power lifting and handling by far what I have seen new holland skid steers are the best
a couple points: 1) mice love wiring..... and equipment that sits outside.... coming from a auto technician point of view (since i've done several $4-5K repairs from rat damage to cars in the last year, and we had one that got repaired and a week later it was towed back after the rats got in and chewed the wiring again!) i'd rather not have something with that much electronics in that environment. don't get me wrong, electronics have their place definitely, but in that environment sometimes simpler is better. i've also seen where a rat chewed the wiring, the chewed part shorted out against another chewed wire and took out an ecu. i've heard the cost of construction equipment ecu's dwarf's the (average $1500) cost of an automotive ecu. 2) also, hydraulic solenoids and dirt tend not to play well together, where as a manual valve will pass a particulate of dirt through and hopefully back to get trapped in the filter, a solenoid can get jammed open/closed by a small particle of dirt. it may not be a problem with construction equipment, but in my world (automotive dealership technician) i can say i've seen solenoids in automatic transmissions get stuck open by the smallest particle of metal/debris.
My new cat has 3 different control speed setting i keep it on the fasted cause it will shake the bucket fast but i was worried about it cause it felt weird not being able to when it was on the slower settings, i can still grade better with my 05 bobcat with stick steer and foot controls
Thanks Neil, for the tutorial. My thought is this. No matter which machine you purchase chances are sooner or later you are going to have some control lever problems. Electronic levers are just exceedingly (may I even suggest UNREASONABLY) expensive to diagnose, and repair/replace. I don't know but I can only imagine the hydraulic wet line would only be fractions of the cost in repair?
As long as your buying a well respected and supported brand, its hard to say we can see clear differences. Cat, Bobcat, Deere, Kubota, CNH, Tak, etc all trade about the same. We have seen some Gehl machines not bringing what they should (which is odd, because Tak makes them). I'd be cautions with JCB, Thomas, etc.
my cat telehandler is the same you have to do down down down and not up down up down up down for the bucket to rattle , but yea low pressure hydro controls are a bliss
FishFind3000 while true, my 08 cat 277b with pilot controls (hydraulic) function just a quick and crisp as day 1 even with 2800hrs. 🤷 Electronic sticks and computers suck for feedback... Bottom line
Peter IJmker electric over hydraulic is an absolute pain in the arse to calibrate the travel speed between both sides of the machine. I know that from exsperiance.
Yeah really... our bobcat has around 1000 or 2 hours and have had TONS of problems with joysticks. Had to replace them several times. But it's just a shit machine to me. And I really liked it for a while. But once the new wore off and got over the fact it was a crappy little deere that banged the hell outa my knees all day and would bury itself in damp grass, it sucks. Reliability is a joke. Maintenance is terrible. Cleaning, greasing everything.
Hydronic over hydronic will have more resistance than electric over hydro. If it’s all day the electric will be easier for the operator. Also does kabota offer electric over hydro at all?
As someone who has spent a few hundred hours in a svl-75, no there is no "resistance" in the sticks. Electric over hydro simply numbs the controls so you move much slower. I'm sure one day electric over hydro will be as quick as hydro over hydro, but not yet.
The Kubota uses pilot control. Meaning that it uses hyd. pressure to operate the functions that each lever controls. So there is virtual no resistance nor hesitation when the operator moves the controls in either of the SVL models. This may seem a little more intimidating to the inexperienced operator due to the faster response on this type. However with a little seat time, you will find that the pilot controls offer a level of precision and productivity not currently available in a electric over hydraulic machine.
I love Bobcat, but this video is spot on. the company i work for runs all hand and foot control bobcats but rented a pilot control machine a few years ago for a season. It was so laggy that i thought something was wrong with it. The consensus of everyone that ran it was to never use that style again.
@@austinhammett9304 I made that comment 3 years ago... but anyway, sure. you can adjust the sensitivity on every electric/hydraulic machine that i know of. In every machine i've used you get to chose between laggy and twitchy or any combination of the two. Granted, there are many brands that i haven't run and some may be much better but unless you've run dozens of pieces of equipment, I don't think you qualify to call someone "dead wrong". Ive worked a job that requires me to put equipment within an inch of things that would be very expensive to repair hundreds of times each day for 17 years with 0 accidents and have not yet seen an electric over hydraulic CTL with precise enough controls to do that type of work.
Clearly you do not operate equipment for a living. To get the bucket to shake you actually have to move the stick slower, not faster. My controls on my TV380 are instantaneous, and are adjustable for aggressiveness, etc. I do prefer pilot over eh stick because they are a lot less complicated. Less wires and computers.
did you notice the point where I tried shaking the sticks at different rates? In this unit, it does not matter. We also sell Case & New Holland, your right that the controls on those machines behave differently. The point of the video was to point that out. Its worth getting in the seat and trying to find those differences.
It is very clear because you can see he is not a good operator he is extremely jerky in his motions and is not smooth and like you said easily move the stick and it jerks you don't have to shake the crap out of the mechine it is very hard on it
@@pricefortner6287 was not the point to showcase the delay in the system. Also he said many times all machines are different and upgrades are happening. He never said you couldn't figure out how to get it to shake.
Yes, amazing for grading. Due to the fact that it’s a hydraulic control so you can almost move your bucket or attachment instantly. It’s very nice, I’m a Takeuchi/Mustang fan boy, but the kubota is definitely an amazing machine.
Well, bobcat deserves some shit for chipping implements to not work with other equipment. Electric over hydraulic controls are just another reason to stay away. I haven't run Kubota or Bobcat, but the difference between Gehl H/H and Wacker E/H is like the difference between turning a steering wheel on a car, and turning my logitech g920 in an online game. I don't know how long those wires are that they have Milwaukee to Chicago and back latency...I guess the smoothing is probably nice for infrequent operators, but I don't think it's really worth the reduction in safety. I ran some case loaders and they were not great, but not as bad as the Wacker-Neuson. The up-only auto leveling sure was a lot worse than the 2 way accurate leveling on Gehl loaders, and was especially scary when my supervisor for the day hopped on the forks and said "up!"
Man my boss would be getting pissed at this dude if he drove the bobcats I work with my boss would say there is no reason to ride a bobcat or any Tractor like That if you got a all day job take that time don't ever rush your jobs
Foot control is the best By far!it will out grade hand controls any day the week. grade On slopes radiuses any turning grading, foot Controls will out grade them all!! Been running bobcat’s and skid loader‘s for over 30 years!!
All about preference. I've used h, iso and foot. I very much prefer iso and can out perform a lot of foot pedal operators. But I know there are H pattern operaters that can work faster than me. Just the time spent on whichever set up. But there's a reason more and more machines are coming iso pattern and no H or foot controls
I've run them all and you can keep the foot controls. No really. I'm glad you like them, and there are many others who feel the same as you. I can run them well enough to get by in a commercial setting, but I much prefer hydraulic ISO. I still remember the crazy ass linkage issues with the old Bobcat 870's, Holy crap but they could be cantankerous when you needed some fine control. I'd very much like to try out a highly developed set of electronic over hydraulic controls that had full adjustability over sensitivity over each parameter. i also love the foot accelerator/decelerator idea for straight hydraulic machines. Sure makes fine work on a dozer easier. Good luck with whatever you operate. I can Dig It.
Been running skid steers since 1985. Hate foot controls. On rough terrain is just makes sense to brace yourself using your feet pressing you back into the seat rather than your body flopping around while using your feet on the controls. Far better results for me from joysticks. To each his/her own.
I would have to disagree with your statement completely, I was watching this old video because just got an electric over hydraulic controlled loader at work. I can’t imagine the lag in speed of controls being any benefit after having a bunch of slop in the pins and bushings along with coupler…. Where as the hydraulic controlled you can adjust to the slop and can feel out objects much better. And yes I’ve tried the different settings for delay and they are all junk….
What year is the Kabota and what year is the bobcat? Looks like the bobcat is a 10 year older model so its not a fair comparison. Bobcat is a way better machine
I have no idea, but I believe I was incredibly clear that THAT'S NOT THE POINT. It's meant to be a demonstration of how different types of stick designs behave.
ill stay with my t250 bobcat it has its good and bad points but hell they all do but hard to beat a bobcat i have had 2 and when I got rid of my first bobcat it had over 4,0000hr on it and the t250 has 2500hr there good machines
I’ve heard kubotas machines have severe hydraulic issues and you have to pay to get it fixed at your local kubota dealer! Is that true? Cause I’m considering a kubota svl75-2
I've put 10s of thousands of hour on machines, never heard or had any such problem with Kubota, did have some injectors in the early 90-2 Kubota,but nothing since. Bobcat on other hand,,,lol🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂 they aren't what they used to be. I started my business with them, Good then. Not switching from Kubota.....!!!
Having bought 30+ bobcats and only 1 Kubota, I have to say I didn't think I would buy anything but a Bobcat. I really like my Kubota machine and it performs better than I expected. As much as I love the machine thou, I doubt I would ever buy another one. Kubota and there Dealers don't have a clue as to what service means. Your machine is only as good as the support that is behind it.
I purchased a 2017 SSV75 Kubota. I believe the machine is great, but the service from Kubota is just terrible. They are installing a new engine under warranty (I believe the engine issue is a fluke). My machine has been sitting at the dealer for almost 4 months. Terrible terrible service!
@@greggschmidt1105 That's the difference. We had a Kubota Tractor that was less than a year old and it broke at the bell housing. That was in April and they returned it in November. I should have learned from that experience but gave them another chance with the skid steer. Still don't have a clue as to service!
@@greggschmidt1105 Same with me. I love the machine the door and the mechanical controls that are so responsive.I hate electric control as the delay drives me crazy.
Tats not a fair comparison electric iver hydraulic machine should be hydralic Bobcat vs hydralic Kubota. Show us Kabuta Electronic control vs electron8c Bobcat.
How the electronic controls of the bobcat respond? Uh, they dont. I'm really sick of all the electronic controls. You can't feel anything. Especially in excavators.
As a 71 year old Gramma, I have been running Bobcats since way before roll cages. Have a 743 with a Kabota engine that is still going strong. A Bobcat without hydraulics over hydraulics and no foot pedal controls just is not a Bobcat! Think the next machine I just might have to look seriously to Kabota. I can lift a kitten out of a pickup with my old Bobcat and set big rocks in a landscape as if by hand. Thanks for the very informative demo.
Thanks for sharing this--I'd bet you have some good stories. I would definitely recommend checking out a Kubota; from my experience, the hydraulic/hydraulic joysticks are even more responsive than hand/foot controls in a bobcat.
@@josie4065 Maybe true that.... but bought my Bobcat 743 with bucket, forks, backhoe for $10 grand 21 years ago and it and I ( now 74) are still going strong! And it is paid for! Your new Kabotas are wonderful, but I'll think on one in my next lifetime!! Thanks for the reply, Josiah.
I have a 763 and a 743 I call it little Godzilla.
I don’t plan on getting rid of them for something newer.
And you are right Granny when you said it’s not a Bobcat without foot controls. 👍
@@jimmoravec1326 Amen, Jim!
Electric joysticks and controls are the norm in almost all new construction equipment. Using electric joysticks allows the manufacturer to remove twelve pilot hoses from the operator's platform. This also removes hydraulic heat from the cab, removes the inevitable hydraulic oil leaks, and removes hydraulic noise and vibration from the operator's station. Electric joysticks allow for infinite adjustability, and simple control pattern changes.
Now, with all that said...I still prefer hydraulic pilot operated controls.
With bobcat I would only recommend the foot control machines. Once you get used to using your feet to control the bucket and your hands to steer it works amazing. I’ve been finishing grading with a t770 now for about 5 years and I was used to pilot controled cats before it started running bobcats with this new company. It took a little getting used to but now I only run foot control bobcats. It’s so much more precise when grading in tight spots.
Yup. I know a guy who's a wizard with a T770 and he only uses foot controls.
Yea defiantly foot controls is the way to go
Come on dude cut the bullshit if you know what you doing. you know. Both are the same it just takes alittle practice
I have not operated a Kubota but have Cat and Bobcat. I really liked the spacious cab of the Kubota Also I like having the glass go overhead instead of like a door. Better escape option
I own a bobcat t590 . An electric over hydraulic system has a slower response time, no doubt. However they operate the same way. I have ran almost every brand. It’s a matter of preference and parts availability.
08:11 And that's when the Camera guy knew he was in trouble...
That was a huge difference though. Very educational video. Glad you did it.
08:28 - more than two shakes means you’re playing with it
If you don't play with it you'll never know how it's going to react when you really need it!
I own an svl95-2 I bought in 2018. I like the instant response of the hydrolic system. My machine is high flow and it's a powerhouse . I had the def injector fail and take the wiring harness out with it at only 50hrs. Repaired by Kubota under warranty but it is a widespread issue on this model with tier 4 engine. I hate def fluid. Other than that the machine is great.
How is it running 5 years later, would going with the smaller 74 hp machine as it doesn't have a def system
LOVE the split screen! Thank you Sir!
Thanks for the video, well spoken, I realize now why I'm having a bit more trouble getting used to my new cat 259D (compared to the Terex PT50 I had for several years). The Cat does have however 3 response level settings for both the travel and loader controls which helps with the lag, but there is still some..Cat does offer a shake-out mode, return to dig, and work tool positioner modes as options which can help.
We always called the bobcat the turtle. Strong as all get out but very slow. Had chronic problems with the electronic pilot controls also. It was the newer 870 and would random lock out and throw a code. Never could get it figured out.
You always have some good reviews. My local Kubota dealer is trying to find me a SSV 65 for my farm. Yes, I have driven a 75 and the 65 will should be close to the same.
I really enjoy this comparison. I also prefer the hyd over hyd - I happened to operate a Elec over Hyd the following day after I saw the video and was reminded of my preference. However, I think anyone operating long enough can get used to either control style.
Kyle Riegle nope. Electronic will only do what it thinks you want it to do. Yeah, I can get the job done. But it doesn't compare with full analog and a good operator. You can feel everything. Electronic there is absolutely no feedback.
Which track system is more reliable in long term?
Kyle riegle
Just purchased a 2016 Kabota SLV 75 and have been watching all the pro’s and con’s videos and ill tell yea the Kabota does not have many con’s going on. I expected no less I have owned a 1995 Kabota 2910 tractor and it is a beast and can pull tree’s move dirt like no other TO A POINT . Just changed front tires (yea 20 year old tires) and the bucket hydrolic line man a whole 100 bucks for three of them Kabota owes me nothing for this machine and I hope and believe my new to me skid steer will be the same
I sure do love my svl95 response is awesome
Bobcat was only a good machine, when it was the only machine. Now, they're just over priced and continue to not be an operators machine. Even when you max out the controls for the bobcat, it's still an unpredictable machine.
Theres so many advantages to the Kubota, the way the door opens, visibility all around the machine, serviceability, and how quick the controls are.
The company I work for, I have had the ability to operate several different skid steers, between Bobcat, Kubota, Cat, Komatsu, Takeuchi, and ASV.
My favorite machines has been the Kubota and Takeuchi because of their speed and how predictable they are.
We still have an older Bobcat machine with those electronic controls. You are correct sir, they suck in comparison. Newer Bobcat controls are quite a bit better than the machine in your demo but anyone that's used to hydro-hydro joystick (like Kubota) will most likely prefer hydro-hydro joysticks at the end of the day.
Thanks Mac from It's Always Sunny
HAD FOOT/HAND FOR 40+ YRS. THEN BOUGHT A 2014 S650 W/ JOYSTICKS. OMG. CLEARED 40 ACRES BEFORE I GOT IT TURNED AROUND. LOL. NOW...GOT USED TO IT AND DON'T THINK I'D GO BACK TO FEET AGAIN. LIKE THE JOYSTICKS THAT MUCH
Keep it simple,hyd over hyd.With all the new pollutution and changes in controls,the simpler and more reliable,the better for the buyer in the long run.I'd rather change a hyd. line than have to truck it to a dealer for an electrical hyd. repair.All this new tech. is getting harder and more expensive even for the guy with a backyard shop.Just my thought.
I have the same machine, you can adjust joystick sensitivity by pressing two buttons. I like your videos neal but this is not a good representation of bobcat joysticks.
Three sensitivity settings Dr1 dr2 dr3 is very easy to change.
I work on bobcats at a dealership, and with the new track loaders/ skid steers you can actually adjust the sensitivity of your joysticks, so when you shake the bucket it will go. They have it laid back for safety reasons and for people just simply getting used to it. Don’t get me wrong, linkages are definitely my favourite, but linkages wear, and the quality of the work gets worse in theory, where as electric actuators (in theory) should be perfect every time
There is no linkage, it's all hydraulic.. like your excavators
Thanks for explaining thoroughly that shaking bucket causes dirt to fall out.
The shaking motion in a bobcat, just you need to get the stick out couple of times slow, not so vigorously.
Seems like he’s running it on low throttle
You made a video on why landscaping companies love the bobcat. The delay and direct control is why they like these in tight areas. Also it's a 320 which stopped being made in what? 2004. Compared to a much newer Kubota. Compare same generations or don't compare at all.
Both systems have their advantages. If are serous about buying any machine rent one for a month and get to know it.
Great advise when it comes to purchasing your first or upgrade your machine.
Can You please do this test again with a BRAND NEW Bobcat T650 (or related model to Kubota) Just so its a fair test because The T320's are discontinued
I was quite clear that the point was not to compare the machines. There are differences in the feel of the sticks between units and its worth getting in the seat and feeling it out yourself.
Stick moving force is the same between these 2 machines. Hydro moving hydro vs electronic moving servo moving hydro. Same force needed for ether. Understand yet?
Yeah no. With hydraulic, it does what the hell you tell it. Shake. And you don't have to sit there and mess with it an hour to get sticky dirt or mud out. Or rock it back to scoop more. Maybe if you have limp wrists it may be a big deal. Bobcat controls suck, the machine itself sucks it's all terrible. Everything he is showing, is true. And I DO run this shit every day. Have since I was 9. Running attacthments, I'll agree. Having to hold the end of the stick tilted to run trencher or something for long periods sucks. But loading dirt, it's less work with a machine that does what you tell it rather than talk back or do nothing at all, if you know what you're doing and are smooth.
I have a 2014 T650. I think there's a lot of merit to this video with they hydraulic over hydraulic responsiveness with this Kubota and shaking a bucket, or quickly turning. But I do like the electronic over hydrualic when handling materials with forks, much finer control. I could always buy a shaker bucket.
I rented t650 it sucks I still bot the kubota
i like the teeth on the bobcats bucket
u can adjust the controls in the bobcat
Once again a bang up job on your video. Thanks so much man for your wealth of knowledge!
Do a troubleshooting,repair and cost of the 2 circuits.I bet you'll love kubota over bobcat.
You didn't mention advantages of electronic joysticks. With Selectable Joystick on Bobcat you can setup/adjust delay reaction of your movements - remove delay if you are working on flat surface or set delay of reaction if you are in terrain area to avoid unpredictable movements of joystick when jumping over the hills.
You say its not a comparison but thats what it was. You can justify all you want but this is a comparison.
Between control styles, yes. Not at all fair to compare models.
Yah the electronic ones never give you the force and responsiveness you need sometimes. I always liked kubota you cant go wrong.
That bobcat should have had sensitivity settings for the hydraulics to either make it delayed to avoid accidental sudden movements or more responsive.
The 75 vs a 320 is boy vs man and the bobcat is twice the mechine but I really love how kubota still offers hydro over hydro but it really annoys me that they don't offer h pattern any more that's the only way to go
T320 r an awsome machine over 7000hrs on the one i was on and still running today
I have an SVL-75 2 on rent right now and I love it. The controls are great.
Was a while back but do think even back then you could "tune" the sensitivity of joystick and did not came with the quickest one..:)
Later ones on quick sensitivity is fast on response..:)
You can its very easy
Stick and foot pedals best responsive controls my opinion. Hell on the knees. Much more comfortable when close to things.
Need an operator to do the video they adapt to the machine that’s all that matters
I completely agree, I hate bobcats electric hand controls. Both sticks and movements are awful. Not responsive enough when you need it and to responsive when you don’t need it. But I love and prefer bobcats with hand/foot controls over any other brand and setup. Nothing I can’t pick up or do with high precision on one. Yes it can make your legs sore, but your body gets use to it and isn’t a problem.
so driving a electronic over hydraulic is like playing a laggy connection in a computer shooter game. Maybe the engineers need to see what amount of lag time is critical.
Scared to go up against a T650 Bobcat? Yeah I would be too!
I've ran a T650 and T750.. I'd take a svl75 or svl95 any day over them
t650 any day @@devilish34
I'd put any Kubota against a bobcat any day!!!! I've owned them all. Kubota hands down on all levels.. simple, productive,never in the shop. I've had seventeen Kubotas in my fleet, over last 8 years. They keep going. Go ahead an keep your kitty. Or do yourself a favor and run some other machine's. Lol
unless you loading a trommel screener with compost and the loaders not big enough and you have to launch the material upwards to get it in, the control was my right foot on the deere loader I was using almost the same foot motion for playing john bohnam style kick drum, its good practice! lolol
I’ll take a newholland ls 190 any day owned both bobcat kubota caterpiller John Deere new holland beats them all in power lifting and handling by far what I have seen new holland skid steers are the best
I get the comparison, but bobcat does have acs controls that will be identical to what you have. They are my favorite 👍
I am a CATERPILLAR man but I am starting to like Kubota. 🤔
Case has super fast response. I think you could flip a quarter over the machine. :)
My bobcat is a t595 it would run circles around that kubota
a couple points:
1) mice love wiring..... and equipment that sits outside.... coming from a auto technician point of view (since i've done several $4-5K repairs from rat damage to cars in the last year, and we had one that got repaired and a week later it was towed back after the rats got in and chewed the wiring again!) i'd rather not have something with that much electronics in that environment. don't get me wrong, electronics have their place definitely, but in that environment sometimes simpler is better. i've also seen where a rat chewed the wiring, the chewed part shorted out against another chewed wire and took out an ecu. i've heard the cost of construction equipment ecu's dwarf's the (average $1500) cost of an automotive ecu.
2) also, hydraulic solenoids and dirt tend not to play well together, where as a manual valve will pass a particulate of dirt through and hopefully back to get trapped in the filter, a solenoid can get jammed open/closed by a small particle of dirt. it may not be a problem with construction equipment, but in my world (automotive dealership technician) i can say i've seen solenoids in automatic transmissions get stuck open by the smallest particle of metal/debris.
My new cat has 3 different control speed setting i keep it on the fasted cause it will shake the bucket fast but i was worried about it cause it felt weird not being able to when it was on the slower settings, i can still grade better with my 05 bobcat with stick steer and foot controls
+Ryan D did you guys your new cat has a Kubota Engine in it? 😀
Messick Farm Equipment, yes it has a Kubota block they say
The guy on the camera is doing a good job!
Thanks Neil, for the tutorial. My thought is this. No matter which machine you purchase chances are sooner or later you are going to have some control lever problems. Electronic levers are just exceedingly (may I even suggest UNREASONABLY) expensive to diagnose, and repair/replace. I don't know but I can only imagine the hydraulic wet line would only be fractions of the cost in repair?
Gary Helms ii
Thanks for the demo.
Thank you sir. I like the explanation and it has helped me with the decision on my purchase.
In your opinion which one will have a better resale value in a year
As long as your buying a well respected and supported brand, its hard to say we can see clear differences. Cat, Bobcat, Deere, Kubota, CNH, Tak, etc all trade about the same. We have seen some Gehl machines not bringing what they should (which is odd, because Tak makes them). I'd be cautions with JCB, Thomas, etc.
my cat telehandler is the same you have to do down down down and not up down up down up down for the bucket to rattle , but yea low pressure hydro controls are a bliss
Another thing is that a brand new kabota and that’s an old bobcat. Worn out machines will suck.
he is comparing types of controls
FishFind3000 while true, my 08 cat 277b with pilot controls (hydraulic) function just a quick and crisp as day 1 even with 2800hrs. 🤷 Electronic sticks and computers suck for feedback... Bottom line
That’s also a new bobcat
That’s totally true Biost test
Bobcat sucks.
Seeing this video the Kubota is newer than the Bobcat an is probably more responsive to light movment
soooooo true
Hydraulic last longer. Ask Wess , onelonlyfarmer.
Peter IJmker electric over hydraulic is an absolute pain in the arse to calibrate the travel speed between both sides of the machine. I know that from exsperiance.
Yeah really... our bobcat has around 1000 or 2 hours and have had TONS of problems with joysticks. Had to replace them several times. But it's just a shit machine to me. And I really liked it for a while. But once the new wore off and got over the fact it was a crappy little deere that banged the hell outa my knees all day and would bury itself in damp grass, it sucks. Reliability is a joke. Maintenance is terrible. Cleaning, greasing everything.
Man he's really on a roll
Could you do a video on a case skid steer please thanks
Maybe is because the bucket on the bobcat is bigger than it is on kubata?
Very informative video! Thank you!!
Hydronic over hydronic will have more resistance than electric over hydro. If it’s all day the electric will be easier for the operator.
Also does kabota offer electric over hydro at all?
+FishFind3000 resistance... From what? Certainly not the sticks, it's the same as what's done in an excavator.
He is thinking about the mechanical linkages over hydro. Like the New Hollands from the 80's and 90's.
As someone who has spent a few hundred hours in a svl-75, no there is no "resistance" in the sticks. Electric over hydro simply numbs the controls so you move much slower. I'm sure one day electric over hydro will be as quick as hydro over hydro, but not yet.
Yeah resistance isn't the right word. I'm not sure how else to describe the difference in feel.
The Kubota uses pilot control. Meaning that it uses hyd. pressure to operate the functions that each lever controls. So there is virtual no resistance nor hesitation when the operator moves the controls in either of the SVL models. This may seem a little more intimidating to the inexperienced operator due to the faster response on this type. However with a little seat time, you will find that the pilot controls offer a level of precision and productivity not currently available in a electric over hydraulic machine.
Love your vids. Well done
Hope not because i personally know that 320 is a beast.
bill smith we drove bobcat New Holland and John Deere and a case. But never a Kubota
It depends on the sensitivity you have the controls set to
+The Quantum Goat that changes the behavior in some ways, except they are not all adjustable including the one in the video.
What’s easiest to steal
I love Bobcat, but this video is spot on. the company i work for runs all hand and foot control bobcats but rented a pilot control machine a few years ago for a season. It was so laggy that i thought something was wrong with it. The consensus of everyone that ran it was to never use that style again.
He's actually dead wrong, you can adjust sensitivity on the T320 easily
@@austinhammett9304 I made that comment 3 years ago... but anyway, sure. you can adjust the sensitivity on every electric/hydraulic machine that i know of. In every machine i've used you get to chose between laggy and twitchy or any combination of the two. Granted, there are many brands that i haven't run and some may be much better but unless you've run dozens of pieces of equipment, I don't think you qualify to call someone "dead wrong". Ive worked a job that requires me to put equipment within an inch of things that would be very expensive to repair hundreds of times each day for 17 years with 0 accidents and have not yet seen an electric over hydraulic CTL with precise enough controls to do that type of work.
Thank you so much.
Clearly you do not operate equipment for a living. To get the bucket to shake you actually have to move the stick slower, not faster. My controls on my TV380 are instantaneous, and are adjustable for aggressiveness, etc. I do prefer pilot over eh stick because they are a lot less complicated. Less wires and computers.
did you notice the point where I tried shaking the sticks at different rates? In this unit, it does not matter.
We also sell Case & New Holland, your right that the controls on those machines behave differently. The point of the video was to point that out. Its worth getting in the seat and trying to find those differences.
It is very clear because you can see he is not a good operator he is extremely jerky in his motions and is not smooth and like you said easily move the stick and it jerks you don't have to shake the crap out of the mechine it is very hard on it
Guys, he is a salesman. Do not expect really good operating skills and then criticize him for it
Messick Farm Equipment noob
@@pricefortner6287 was not the point to showcase the delay in the system. Also he said many times all machines are different and upgrades are happening. He never said you couldn't figure out how to get it to shake.
Is the SVL good for landscaping
tractor man 14 the best, and I’m a total cat fanboy
Yes, amazing for grading. Due to the fact that it’s a hydraulic control so you can almost move your bucket or attachment instantly. It’s very nice, I’m a Takeuchi/Mustang fan boy, but the kubota is definitely an amazing machine.
Well, bobcat deserves some shit for chipping implements to not work with other equipment. Electric over hydraulic controls are just another reason to stay away. I haven't run Kubota or Bobcat, but the difference between Gehl H/H and Wacker E/H is like the difference between turning a steering wheel on a car, and turning my logitech g920 in an online game. I don't know how long those wires are that they have Milwaukee to Chicago and back latency...I guess the smoothing is probably nice for infrequent operators, but I don't think it's really worth the reduction in safety.
I ran some case loaders and they were not great, but not as bad as the Wacker-Neuson. The up-only auto leveling sure was a lot worse than the 2 way accurate leveling on Gehl loaders, and was especially scary when my supervisor for the day hopped on the forks and said "up!"
Kubota is updating every day
can yaw do a video of the prep work on the tractors to get ready to sale
+David Paulene ua-cam.com/video/OqUi1uA9A5M/v-deo.html
Man my boss would be getting pissed at this dude if he drove the bobcats I work with my boss would say there is no reason to ride a bobcat or any Tractor like That if you got a all day job take that time don't ever rush your jobs
Foot control is the best
By far!it will out grade hand controls any day the week. grade On slopes radiuses any turning grading, foot Controls will out grade them all!! Been running bobcat’s and skid loader‘s for over 30 years!!
All about preference. I've used h, iso and foot. I very much prefer iso and can out perform a lot of foot pedal operators. But I know there are H pattern operaters that can work faster than me. Just the time spent on whichever set up. But there's a reason more and more machines are coming iso pattern and no H or foot controls
Couldn't agree more. I love foot pedals.
I've run them all and you can keep the foot controls. No really. I'm glad you like them, and there are many others who feel the same as you. I can run them well enough to get by in a commercial setting, but I much prefer hydraulic ISO. I still remember the crazy ass linkage issues with the old Bobcat 870's, Holy crap but they could be cantankerous when you needed some fine control. I'd very much like to try out a highly developed set of electronic over hydraulic controls that had full adjustability over sensitivity over each parameter. i also love the foot accelerator/decelerator idea for straight hydraulic machines. Sure makes fine work on a dozer easier. Good luck with whatever you operate. I can Dig It.
Been running skid steers since 1985. Hate foot controls. On rough terrain is just makes sense to brace yourself using your feet pressing you back into the seat rather than your body flopping around while using your feet on the controls. Far better results for me from joysticks. To each his/her own.
That makes no sense.
Big Difference between hours on machine. Do that again when the hours on the Kabota match the bobcat
I would have to disagree with your statement completely, I was watching this old video because just got an electric over hydraulic controlled loader at work. I can’t imagine the lag in speed of controls being any benefit after having a bunch of slop in the pins and bushings along with coupler…. Where as the hydraulic controlled you can adjust to the slop and can feel out objects much better. And yes I’ve tried the different settings for delay and they are all junk….
What year is the Kabota and what year is the bobcat? Looks like the bobcat is a 10 year older model so its not a fair comparison. Bobcat is a way better machine
I have no idea, but I believe I was incredibly clear that THAT'S NOT THE POINT. It's meant to be a demonstration of how different types of stick designs behave.
The more I learn about bobcat, the more I don't want one
maybe the bobcat wouldn't wear out as fast less jerking the pins and stuff
Well if you think about this Kubota and Bobcat Kubota makes more tractors than anything and the Bobcat they make more skid steer than anything
You know, they say that if you shake 3 times, you're just playing with yourself...
EFormance Engineering Considered pleasure!
ill stay with my t250 bobcat it has its good and bad points but hell they all do but hard to beat a bobcat i have had 2 and when I got rid of my first bobcat it had over 4,0000hr on it and the t250 has 2500hr there good machines
How much can these machine lif..?
So Kubota is simpler in design it doesn't have extra node in controls like Bobcat's computer(weak spot). Simplier the machine - longer it's lifetime.
I’ve heard kubotas machines have severe hydraulic issues and you have to pay to get it fixed at your local kubota dealer! Is that true? Cause I’m considering a kubota svl75-2
+thebrunswickbowler1997 really now 😀. We've got 300 or so in the field and have never heard this.
Ryan Christopher Wagner ex XE XE
Danny Gillenwater what does ex xe xe mean?
I've put 10s of thousands of hour on machines, never heard or had any such problem with Kubota, did have some injectors in the early 90-2 Kubota,but nothing since. Bobcat on other hand,,,lol🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂 they aren't what they used to be. I started my business with them, Good then. Not switching from Kubota.....!!!
Lol - but the guy is wearing a Kubota jacket!
The Kubota is 752 and the botcat is T320
What about when it's cold out, ant difference..
Having bought 30+ bobcats and only 1 Kubota, I have to say I didn't think I would buy anything but a Bobcat. I really like my Kubota machine and it performs better than I expected. As much as I love the machine thou, I doubt I would ever buy another one. Kubota and there Dealers don't have a clue as to what service means. Your machine is only as good as the support that is behind it.
I purchased a 2017 SSV75 Kubota. I believe the machine is great, but the service from Kubota is just terrible. They are installing a new engine under warranty (I believe the engine issue is a fluke). My machine has been sitting at the dealer for almost 4 months. Terrible terrible service!
@@greggschmidt1105 That's the difference. We had a Kubota Tractor that was less than a year old and it broke at the bell housing. That was in April and they returned it in November. I should have learned from that experience but gave them another chance with the skid steer. Still don't have a clue as to service!
It doesn't make any sense! I really like the machine, especially the door, but wow. I didn't know service could be that bad.
@@greggschmidt1105 Same with me. I love the machine the door and the mechanical controls that are so responsive.I hate electric control as the delay drives me crazy.
Tats not a fair comparison electric iver hydraulic machine should be hydralic Bobcat vs hydralic Kubota. Show us Kabuta Electronic control vs electron8c Bobcat.
Kubota does not make electronic machines, Bobcat does not make hydraulic. Different approachs.
Kubota, here I come.
at some point the stupid people will understand he said try out different machines
standard controls
I operate a t250 every weekend it is hydro over hydro
How the electronic controls of the bobcat respond? Uh, they dont. I'm really sick of all the electronic controls. You can't feel anything. Especially in excavators.
But can you make a Kubota in Bobcat white? 🤣
Hand foot controls are the only way to go ....