For real, I look forward to this channel every day at work. Its quickly become my #1 channel. I am mainly a crypto weirdo but gosh these macro talks are fascinating and I learn so much.
@raygaub9861 Exactly. And if you listen to Professor Wolff's larger argument he clearly uses hierarchical co-ops as examples. The CEO still exists. But the major distinction is they are accountable to the employee base rather than the Board. And coming back to a more equitable society - it's pretty clear you will balance interests towards a longer term positioning rather than constant short term cycles to hit quarterly metrics rather than true longevity. And also compensation will obviously be managed to a level that the broader employee base feels is equitable. That does the mean same pay for unequel work, but also curbing the extremes occurring at both ends of the scale.
@@TheDavidLinReport Arthur Laffer makes me laugh. Having a phone may still make me poor among the living humans but if he compares me to the dead people from 1000 years ago, I am richer than all the dead Kings, because none of them had a phone. Laffer makes me laugh. Comparing the wealth of a living being to a dead being is very useful for the Wealthy.
Einstein was not really "outspoken" about it. He seldom mentioned it. He also admitted he knew nothing about the economy and was basically going off vibes
@@aktube9084 I wouldn't recommend making up things to make your point. History exists. This lie about history and repeat is common white supremacist patriarchal capitalist practice. I get it. When there is little moral ground to justify supporting the theft, murder and exploitation of humans and the planet a capitalist system needs, you must find any way to defend it. Hey you do you. But Einstein in fact was understood the economy very well. It ain't rocket science. Economics is NOT that complex buddy. But w.s. capitalist will try to be gate keepers of their insane abstract art. LoL. Einstein even wrote an essay in 1949 titled "Why Socialism?". I own it, have read it and being someone who has taught science and economics classes, he understood it. What fun fantasy will you conjure up now to defend this w.s. system of death?
The capitalism defender can't stop advertising his book. It's like a perfect example of capitalism and it's endless, mind numbing marketing and advertising.
@@Dan16673you mean like the starvation of over 5 million children every year due to malnutrition and it's related diseases that happens under global capitalism?
I think he is mostly wrong and his solution doesn't make any sense, democracy at the workplace? what the hell does that even mean? Worker doesn't own the workplace, they are just there to temporarily do some job and get paid for it. Worker doesn't care about the profits and losses, they get paid their market price and thats it.
This debate is VERY telling when you have an economist that has worked in the White House say “democracy no matter where it is doesn’t work and we need to regulate who makes decisions" EDIT: also David I must thank you for hosting this debate it is something that the US has been sorely missing for decades but I do think you should have done more at the end to prevent Dr. Laffer from interrupting Prof Wolff as he was never able to complete any of this thoughts due to Dr. Laffer constantly interrupting him and it wasn't until you stepped in and told Laffer to let Wolff finish that the conversation finally became stable again.
What’s telling about it? The USA has never been a democracy. The founding fathers made sure it wasn’t. Its a republic/ representative democracy with two legislative bodies based on two separate criteria. Pure democracy is just mob rule.
@@gort3969 "Stealing"? lol. I know on which side of this capitalism/socialism debate you reside. If not for UA-cam, you wouldn't know David Lin for squat. There's be ZERO audience. Think about it just a bit more...
Any chance of you doing another debate or discussion between these two once they’ve read and analyzed one another’s book? That would be an amazing Part II to this discussion.
There would be no point to that. There is no debate between socialism and capitalism. There is no way possible to argue that socialism is superior to capitalism. The argument does not exist, and the arguments proffered are always full of holes. Socialism is a giant con game, one that usually winds up mass murdering its own citizens and impoverishing the rest. Richard Wolff and his tribe are THE problem in this world.
that would be nice, I don’t mean to be rude, but as someone who seems to never have had an original thought, i suspect Laffer is functionally illiterate.
No that would be pointless and a waste of everyone's brain cells. When someone who during a two person debate can't comport themselves equitably when the other is answering you know there's something wrong. Telling Dr Wolff to read his book repeatedly as if it's the definitive tome of economic theory and history is akin to people saying the Bible is a historical book. Socialist countries failed due to imperialism of the USA and the vassal states of Europe. We're all now experiencing the inevitable demise of the criminal enterprise called capitalism and if the elites need a history lesson they should look to France in 1789. 🧐
Laffer is a bit of a yawn. He's a one-trick pony. Ok, fine he thinks he knows how to make a bad system grow faster. Wolff knows a better system. They are on totally different levels.
This was excellent. I don’t praise UA-camrs often, but you were an excellent moderator. You let them speak and interact, keep questions relevant and quick, and kept things moving when necessary. Well done.
Up until the 1 hour mark , I’d agree the debate was managed well At that point , Laffer loses his cool , obviously unable to defend his position without bluster and speaking over Wolff. Unfortunately, I left at that point. Couldn’t get passed the screaming
I think he didn’t do such a good job… Laffer from close to the very start interrupted Wolff within seconds of starting his point, and completely took over from Wolff at least three or four times… our fine moderator did nothing about this.
“…a government that TRIES”? How can the Government do anything against the wealthy and corporate when politicians literally rely on the wealthy and corporations for their careers?
At least the Republican Party has common sense, and the policies of the Republican Party helps the middle class rather than the democrats that just CLAIM TO help the middle class.
Don’t forget the super pacs that give money to politicians like aipac then they take the same money to pay off politicians on both sides money laundering indeed
By far and away, this has been THE best show you’ve done and it was incredible!!! Mainstream media doesn’t do this and you have two titans debating. It was such an awesome show!!! Loved it! Well done David!
I love how Professor Wolff knows capitalism better than Mr. Laffer does who is a major supporter of it. I find that this is a very common when talking to anyone how is a large supporter of free markets and capitalism as it stands. Rather funny if you think about it.
How did you come to that conclusion? Richard Wolff couldn't even define capitalism or give a direct definition for it while debating destiny.. Nor can he give a direct definition of socialism... I am curious though, how did you come to the conclusion that Wolff "knows" capitalism more then Laffer?? I suspect you came to that conclusion because his though on it aligns with yours..?
Absolute nonsense, its clear Mr. Wolff never worked in the economy and instead used his sheltered being as an academic to pump his brain full of abstract macro economics like Marx. He doesnt understand the policies hes fighting for are bogus and completely unrealistic. Its like someone who thinks they know how to fight cause they watched Rocky. If you want me to go into Detail let me know..
@@Diabolical05Professor Wolfe is also a historian. He would know more about the historical context of capitalism. He always gives historical context when speaking. It doesn't matter how many statistical figures you wanna throw out, it doesn't mean you're right in your analysis or your presentation of them. Which is all Laffer did. Aside from agreeing with most of Dr Wollf's arguments. If I remember correctly, the professor gave Destiny a historical lesson. He didn't want to hear it, understand it or acknowledge it. Much like most do when you challenge their views.
Laffer never mentioned that + 200 big american corporations went to China so to benefit from low taxation production and cheaper exports to the Us making huge corporattions very wealthy. Now he blames China for the economic downturn in the Us economy. De- dollarisation and freezing foreign assets and weaponizing the petro- dollar makes investors flee the Us dollar. The Fed reserve bank foreign assets are leaving the dollar as a world stable currency. The world doesn't trust the Us anymore. The Us elite shot itself in the foot. The chickens are coming home to roost,or boomerang effect is another way of saying things. Western unipolar hegemony is declining..! The multi- polar world is on the rise. Rather Sooner than later all the institutions installed after WW2 will be obsolete. We in the west need the money to create new jobs,having double glazing and energy efficient heating systems installed and affordable houses being build. So stable secure jobs will make us happy. What do the americans want? 2 jobs? Being obese and diabetic and eating crap fast food junk that tastes like cardboard or sitting at a family table eating healthy home made food and not rely on drugmedication..! Let's make a choice.🙏🙏🙏
Most people, like Laffer, take the opportunity to use these shows to sell their books.He still believes that the capitalistic system is still the only answer to become a great nation. But who runs the show in a great nation? The hard working american poleople that need to have 2 jobs to "make months end meet". Why does the Us rely on cheap imported oil from faraway countries while it sits on its own oilreserves? Too expensive to dig up your own oil, not enough money to be made? You Mister Gaffer should tell your fellow people the real truth that your country De- INDUSTRIALIZED since the 70ies onwards and that your american + 200 big corporations went to China. Big hypocrit so you are..! Where do you hide your stash? In the Us or on an offshore account where your tax office cannot tax you and your wealthy friends. Stop talking bullshit and interrupt Richard Wolff in a rude manner.
Living in denial is like believing in your own lies and selling these to the public still hoping they will buy these lies...! DHEUU..! PEOPLE do not read books anymore You tube gives more accurate and updated info,Laffer. By the time you wrote that book the book is gone obsolete..! Waste of paper and ink. China invented the ink..! Did you know that?
A superb debate & discussion to have had, for which I’m very grateful to have had access to !….Also, writing to you from Japan, I’d just like to add that it’s lovely to see things like this organised & moderated by a fellow East Asian ! Not something we often get to see in / from the West…😊
Laffer is a rich powerful person living in TN. He is immune to the fact that TN has one of the lowest life expectancies in the country; highest number of diabetes, cancer, and un/underinsured (TN never took the ACA Medicaid expansion); one of the lowest residentially-owned property rates; some of the lowest education scores in the country; and on and on. The people have been exploited since the state was founded, and it has only gotten worse the last 20 yrs. It has never really changed from a plantation economy--with a few rich, a handful of middle class, and most at the very bottom of the economic pyramid. TN is consistently ranked one of the most corrupt states in the nation! So, Laffers comments about TN, are, as usual for him, only partly factual. Its a great place if youre rich like Laffer. Otherwise, it's miserable!
“China collapsing in front of our eyes” haha ROFLMAO, this reminds me of Gordon Chang, that he said China is collapsing every year for the last 20 years. Look at the debt ratio between China and USA. We, USA will collapse and buried 6 feet under long before China shows any sign of collapsing.
Right? They've been saying China is "collapsing" or "is about to collapse" for years on end. Maybe it will someday, but it sure as hell hasn't yet, lmao
@@fannyalbi9040well I knew he was a fascist from the start and I am not surprised that what he said because people like him are clueless about how the economy run especially the Chinese economy
It usually just leads to homelessness and high costs; the money gets smuggled at the top, the costs rise for the rest. Just look at all the problems where the tech booms occurred.
Supply-side economics, AKA trickle-down economics, AKA horse and sparrow economics . . . because the horse eats the grain and the sparrow picks food out of the horse's shit. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics
@@ExPwneryeah. It's so easy to find. I knew that data point prior to this debate and I must believe Laffer did as well. Wages haven't moved for 6 or so decades, adjusted for inflation.
David you are amazing for arranging this. Also shout out to Arthur for showing and defending his position against Wolf. I tend to be more sympathetic to Wolf’s position but I am glad he is being challenged Wolf is very articulate so it’s hard to find people willing to debate him. Can’t wait to listen to this and I hope it was a sound debate.
Per Lars Rasmussen, prime minister of Denmark, "I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,”
I can't thank you enough David. This style of discussion was so common in the U.S. on MSM 40-60 years ago. I look forward to the future where brilliant minds like Art & Richard are showcased on independent channels because I have no hope MSM will provide it. It's super difficult to find someone to debate Richard, so hats off to Art, & again David, much appreciated 🙏
Seemed like they were talking past each other and focusing on their expertise. Wolff was talking about the organisation of the workplace and Laffer was responding by alluding to economic growth after tax cuts in particular administrations. It was actually a very pointless discussion lmao
Laffer is a demon he only wants to cut taxes for the rich and cut social programs for the poor that's literally his entire economic platform and kansas tried it and it failed miserably
@ExPwner so you literally had no idea kansas did this? All you have to do is look it up its on the southern poverty law centers website and the kansas economic forums website. Every kansas economist learns about arthur laffurs ridiculous policy failure. The fact you have never even heard of this explains how you could possibly support this dumb$hit
@@greenhammer3263 feudalism is not capitalism. Nice try. The poorest people in the world dream of living in capitalist nations, not socialist ones. You’re unbelievably misinformed
China did not "take off" economically until they adopted capitalistic markets.... 1000 points of light... something like that. It was capitalism that allowed Chinas growth.
China's "capitalism" is still guided from top to bottom by a large powerful communist party. This is NOTHING comparable to anything Laffer and western capitalists are advocating.
They have always had state owned enterprises and still do. Banking is a public utility in China that is tightly regulated. Their economy is not financialized like ours and their central bank writes off bad debt. Our banks keep garbage loans on the books as "non-performing" assets. They do not allow monopoly capitalism to run them into the ground which is why they have commercialized their own industry which incidentally produce better products than ours but our government doesn't allow Huwei and Chinese EV's to be sold here. Their economy is similar to our 19th and early 20th American System that Hamilton through Teddy Roosevelt envisioned.
Black cat white cat as long as it catches the mice. These debates do not take place in China not because they are not allowed but because it completely misses the point. The underpinning of the China system is socialism meaning how to raise the standard of living for all Chinese people. Some capitalistic methodology is not a problem.
Art Laffer kinda lost it at around 1:15:00. Seemed to almost switch off from being somewhat reasonable to "im not gonna let Richard finish his points anymore".
Well, he was frustrated. He was defeated intellectually, not knowing and understanding the points that Wolff was making. All he had left is to talk over and pout.
@@huwhitecavebeast1972ah yes trickle-down economic as work so well and we see how one of the framer of trickle-down economic refuse to take responsibility for the mess that he has created
Such a rare thing to see such bright accomplished scholars having a respectful debate. I was surprised with how much they agreed. Their assessments of the current economic state and economic history were very similar, but their prescriptions were very different.
My God... What a wonderful debate! Should be on TV and everywhere! I'm in awe really. This is what politicians should be doing... Sit in front of the public, present the numbers and figures, go through the decades and see what's right and wrong. I must congratulate EVERYONE who were part of this! Arthur, Richard and David... Just... UNREAL. This was amazing!!! Thank you all
David, I don’t know if you realize this, but with this kind of awesome content, you are directly competing with Netflix and prime. I would actually watch this video in a movie theater for a date night with popcorn!
@@TheDavidLinReport Dude... You should be proud of yourself! It was AMAZING. And yo... You got two Champions of their ideology to level the game. It was great! This is what politicians should be doing you know.... Not that circus we see on tv's
@@TheDavidLinReport Arthur Laffer makes me laugh. Having a phone may still make me poor among the living humans but when he compares me to the dead people from long ago, I am richer than all the dead Kings, because none of them had a phone. Comparing the wealth of a living being to a dead being is very useful for the Wealthy.
Both made sound points. One ideology has never been tried, while the other has been rinsed & repeated but still doesn't work. Removing my personal bias, Wolff was patient & concise, while Art's cognitive dissonance made him keep repeating capitalism's broken record ideology.
@@ExPwner its funny how youre going around saying Prof wolff is lying or wrong, and yet you can never seem to point out how or why? Fascinating isnt it? its almost like you dont even know yourself what is right or wrong. but i know thats the case seeing youre profile picture, the Yellow and Black denoting a Anarcho Capitalist, someone who follows the teachings of the most silliest and obviously juvenile thought of economic belief, that somehow if you just remove the state/govarnment and leave things to the free market that humans will look out for eachother and not have people with all the wealth in society exert their power and will onto the populace to become the new (and impossible to remove) State/Govarnment. while destroying everything else int he world in persuit of profit. but im not going to exspect intelligence from someone with such obviously ill concieved beliefs on economics as you!
Hey David just a suggestion after around 1:10:00 when the conversation became heated there could have been some more intervention from you as a moderator to organize speaking times. It felt like you had disappeared here. Otherwise great job with this presentation!
This is one of the most productive discussions I heard. Honest conversations like that would propel humanity in the right direction! This is exactly what we needed to have in the USA. Excellent job David thank you so much!
I've really enjoyed this debate. I think both Arthur and Richard want the same thing, they just don't agree on how to do it. My personal view is that since 1972 and especially 2008 the central banks have used quantitive easing to increase the value of assets, making the financial markets and corporations more wealthy, whilst fiat currencies have been debased, causing inflation that has hit the working classes especially hard. This excessive printing lead to the revolution in France and Germany going to war. Elites elsewhere in Europe made sure they didn't make the same mistakes, and so the game continues!
Unfortunately I would say they do not want the same thing at all. Perhaps due to his long standing career as a defender of the current economic and political system, Prof. Laffer is, as Prof. Wolff pointed out, naturalizing the capitalist system. He implies that the employer/employee dichotomy we've grown used to over the last 300 years is inherent to humanity, and that we have somehow reached the end of history, with no way to progress as a society. So what he proposes is a bunch of tweaks here and there to the same system, hoping that it may somehow change anything at all. There are two completely different conversations going on during this debate: - Prof. Wolff is analyzing the history and evolution of economic systems, through the lens of the dominant workplace relationships (master/slave defining slavery, lord/serf defining feudalism, employer/employee defining capitalism), and then proposing what relationship is to be the next dominating one in society; - On the other hand we have Prof. Laffer, who is discarding this analysis completely as "I don't think it will work but i'd love for it to", while in the meantime actively working to undermine the efforts of anyone trying to achieve said society or said workplace relationship. And I mean this quite literally as he has taken part of a few administrations that intervened, both militarily and through the CIA, in the internal affairs of other countries, predominantly in Central America. He contributes to the efforts to remove any socialist or communist platform anywhere as part of the legacy of the Red Scare. He definitely does not want the same thing as Prof. Wolff. When he says "we want the same thing, we just don't agree on how to do it" he is either completely delusional, or does it as a desperate attempt to shut down the conversation as if it's just a petty difference rather than deep baseline divergences. You can see it on Prof. Wolff's face just how absurd he knows this phrase to be But then again the net worth of Prof. Laffer is estimated to be around $8 Million (stockholder and one of the directors of his company), he is one of the primary beneficiaries of the current economic system and therefore most of what he does is part of an effort of self-preservation. It is very difficult to make someone understand something when their career and livelihood is dependent on not understanding it.
Well, he was frustrated. He was defeated intellectually, not knowing and understanding the points that Wolff was making. All he had left is to talk over and pout.
@@ExPwnerif he is right then he doesn't need to interrupt him and keep him from speaking, the truth will shine on its own. Tyrants , dictators and bullies that don't have the truth on their act like Laffer and you are defending him
Very good interview. The bottom line is a capitalist system and well as a Democratic Republic require a moral society. The founders of the United States new that the citizenry had to be moral. It is even more important that our leaders be moral (government or company). I would think most people would say we are lest moral today than just 20 years ago.
Haft to ask which of the gazillion gender should are moral leaders be? And who chooses decides them? Pretty clear we no longer have elections we have selections
I agree with that, but it is ironic since liberal capitalism is (as I see it) one of the main driving forces of the corrosion of moral and values we now see today.
This was NEVER a moral country and never will be until the empire rulers are rubbed out and the descendants of enslaved African people and Indigenous people receive restoration. This empire was founded on slavery and genocide, there’s nothing moral about that.
Thanks David, great show! It did feel like they both want the same outcome/euphoria. Laffer seems to think the current system can be fixed, and maybe it can short term (micro). However, as Jeff Booth says: "A system problem cannot be solved from the system creating the problem." - Wolff seems to have more of the "macro" mindset.
The exact opposite is the case. The socialist wants to fix the problems caused by socialists policies with more socialist policies, aka micro manage. The capitalist wants to fix the problems caused by socialist policies by abolishing these policies. Democratizing companies sounds nice until you realize all the bureaucracy that comes along with democratic decision making. Companies need to be nimble and adaptive, but I dont blame the socialist prof for not knowing that. Studying Marx and other abstract literature about macro economics seldom leads to realistic and practical policies.
Wolff may not necessarily be for scraping the whole capitalist system. In many of his talks the big thing he cares about the most is the relationship between the Employer and the Employee. He really believes it's unfair. If that problem can be fixed and made more Fair, I doubt Wolff want to kill and cook the goose that lays the golden eggs --- which can be taxed for social programs.
@@themoonrider351 it seems you didn't understand what socialism is ... there aren't socialist policies. Any "socialist" policies were implemented by capitalists and their political actor puppets to prevent the volatility and instability of any capitalist system. If economic power, actual power of land, resources, people... were democratic, our political system would become more democratic. We aren't talking about more or less policy and regulation. We are talking about a change in the actual economic system. Capitalist apologists also never acknowledge that ALL capitalist wealth is built on theft exploitation and state violence. Nation states historically developed because of the oppressive needs of royalty and then capitalists. Countries exist because of violence and dominance. I believe most humans, if they experienced a worker coop, would choose to have a say in their well being and how their company ethically operates in their community and beyond. Statistically and historically, whether ya wanna believe it or not, has higher productivity, higher worker-owner morale, safer work spaces. But some peeps rather believe in "dreams" than understand the material realities of systems and how humans relate to one another. It is literally the American dream... to everyone being an owner of the work they do. At the end of the day, capitalist apologists MUST be honest that they are antidemocratic and more champions of dictatorships... boards of dictators (oh sorry it was euphemized as directors). That they believe the majority of humans are beneath or less than a minority of the wealthy, predominantly white straight men. Hey peeps should support what they support. Just when you take pride in a system which relies on violence, theft and exploitation through economic dictatorship, there will be consequences.
@@Sandcrackattack Literally checked all the boxes for cultural marxist buzz word bingo when reading your comment. There are in fact socialist policies, just because they have been implemented in a capitalist system by capitalist, doesnt change the nature of the policy. The chinese government has implemented a bunch of capitalistic policies despite being a communist regime on paper. Besides the fact that nobody seems to be able to give a comprehensive descritption about how your anarcho communistic or anarcho syndicalistic system is supposed function in real life, the attempts I have read have about as much to do with democracy as the democratic peoples republic of north korea. But feel free to prove me wrong, descripe your utopian system to me and answer me these three questions: 1. How do you ensure that your ideal system remains socialist / anarcho communist? 2. Will your citizens enjoy human rights and if so, how are you planning to protect those? 3. If you democratize your companies, will employees (in this case also the owners) have to cover for finanical losses the company might suffer?
Great discussions like this used to be the norm in America; we need to bring that back. Thanks for hosting this fantastic debate! Also, the fact that both men are older than our president, yet 1,000X more intelligent, shows that mental acuity is far more important than age.
I guess it depends on what side of the fence you're sitting on. If you have enough Capital, then you don't have to work for a living. You can just live off of other people's labour in perpetuity. However, if you're a worker, what are the people being exploited, then capitalism really sucks.
@@michaelmappin1830capitalists are not living off of other people’s labor. Don’t you get tired of lying for a living? You already got proven wrong on this multiple times before including on live debate. The labor theory of value that you are relying upon to peddle this false statement has no merit.
@@ExPwner So what is passive income? What is rent seeking? You deny basic logic so there is no use trying to reason with you. You simply fantasize about being a property owner that can subject others or to be subjected yourself, even if you do not admit it.
Art Laffer is a joke! Pun intended. Classic capitalism and Neo capitalism are completely different. After world war 2 true capitalism was slowly transformed into the Neo capitalism we have now. That is why we have such income inequality today. When the very rich make the rules through lobbying the benefits of those rules will all go to the rich. The poor collect the crumbs left behind. Bailouts are not true capitalism, but socialism for the rich. If we lived in a real capitalistic system the bailouts would not have happened causing all the boom bust cycles that lead to inflation . The rich want socialism for themselves (Bailouts) when they fail, and capitalism when they succeed. Our world is run by hypocrites!
Yeesh I cannot swallow someone equating socialism with bailouts. Such bails follow concentration of wealth, monopoly, ingestion of government and externalization of losses : features of capitalism. Socialism is worker ownership [ exists because workers were mistreated in capitalism [ dictatorship at work ] and co-ops are self-correcting to approximate community interests.
I tend to agree with your comment. Laffer and Wolff didn't even discuss many other essential topics. My question is, why? True capitalism hasn't existed for decades. And neither gentleman acknowledge that fact. And that's only one item they didn't discuss.
@@scottmccutcheon9828 So well said. When the big bank's f*uk up who bails them out? Socialism is the little people. But otherwise it's Capitalism. Crazy shit.
@@scottmccutcheon9828 True capitalism has never existed and never will. Big government systems are always morphing to serve chosen groups. Particularly those at the top in maintaining their status. Those at the the bottom currently get to maintain theirs, while more join their ranks. At the end of every epoch, the serpent eats its tail and civilizations crumble.
@@scottmccutcheon9828 "True capitalism"? What do you mean? When most people say this, they say something like, "we've never truly had a 'free market'". Is that what you're trying to say? We haven't had truly free markets because the investors don't want that. They want to socialize their risks and privatize the profits. This is 100% what happened in 2008.
Absolute nonsense, private property requires agreement, which does not "come about by itself" or *enforcement* which clearly doesn't either. You have to believe specific things to think "capitalism is the natural way humans do business" and think that means there's nothing to justifiably criticize further.
🔥 You always know who’s genuinely open minded vs who’s genuinely closed minded to new concepts and ideas when one person constantly begins to interrupt, loudly talks over the over the other with straw man, whataboutism debate tactics. Wolff is 100% on point. Sadly, there’s a lot to laugh about with Laffer. The biggest thing Laffer doesn’t recognize is really quite simple. That is, If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always gotten. EOS. 👀💯🚬
Wolff is not at all “on point” and spewed outright lies. Correcting someone else when they lie is not being closed minded or losing the argument, it is righting the wrong.
This was brilliant, glad we can have 2 opposing individuals debate and come to a middle ground sometimes One thing though about productivity which wasn't mentioned was the introduction and implementation of heavy machinery and A.I which has boosted our productivity dramatically.. The simplest task of having 10 men dig a hole was replaced with an excavator Accountants replaced by calculators Assembly line workers replaced with robots The list goes on
While the part about productivity is very true that machines helped improve productivity, and yes those machines do come at an expense to the owner, does that justify that the owner can now pocket all of the added benefits from that machinery while giving their workers none of it? You used to need 4 people washing dishes in a restaurant before the dishwasher came in. Now you can wash all of your dishes with one person, so you continue to pay that one person the same wage you used to pay the 4 even though the 1 person washes everything in your restaurant? Sure the machine cost $10k to put into place, but should the worker receive no benefit of the machine, only the owner not having to pay the extra labor? This is the problem, businesses will always pay as little as possible so they get to keep a larger chunk of the profit for themselves. The only thing that leveled the playing field for workers were unions. We need more unions so the workers aren’t continually exploited by the owners who will do whatever they need to to save money and make more for themselves.
@barnabusdoyle4930 I think with the example of the washing machine replacing 3 workers and having 1 worker load the machine, doesn't that mean the worker now has to work less because the machine is doing the work? I'm not saying their wages should be the same either that worker is now barring more responsibility too and should be compensated accordingly. But to say the worker should just absorb the other 3 sets of wages is absurd, what's the point of investing in a business without a reasonable profit?
@barnabusdoyle4930 and unions used to stand for something before they lost their heads and asked for way too much, I'm in the construction industry in Australia and the workers are overpaid and under worked. I figured this out as a 3 year apprentice watching these overpaid and over compensated monkeys do nothing and watch firm after firm go bust from sub 2% margins You know most big companies in construction actually take work on to just pay wages, what's the point
@@MrAnderson3 I live in the US, we too have unions that have gotten themselves way too much power and that has caused serious problems. The teacher and police unions being the top 2. However, we also have a majority of our workforce not under any kind of unions but instead have politicians working to undermine and destroy unions altogether. These workers are exploited in every way possible, from nursing staff being required to be run ragged taking on a larger and larger pool of patients while getting less and less support. The railroads, who might as well not have a union at all, work insane schedules and have the companies they work for constantly cut staffing levels, not invest in maintaining their equipment and requiring the workers to do what is literally impossible. There definitely needs to be a balance in worker rights and corporate power. In the US, corporate power is too heavy, while in the EU and Australia the unions have a bit too much power.
@barnabusdoyle4930 were on the same page mate👍 as long as government representatives can come into office making 100k a year and leave their time a millionaire then nothing will change
More debates like this please. It would also be interesting to see discussions on nationalism vs globalism, the future of the dollar and other currencies (ie crypto, gold, alternative reserves), and blue state vs red state economics
Nationalism vs globalism is just code for Nazi vs Jews. It has just become inappropriate for Nazis to talk about killing Jews in public so they use said words.
The moderator ought to have asked Dr Laffer to let Dr Wolf speak without interruption toward the end of this ; I doubt I'll watch another one of these discussions hosted by Mr. Lin given how unfairly Dr Wolf was treated. Shameful...
@@johnHofweber notice you ignore the lies by Wolff. You also ignore the hypocrisy of Wolff by his socialist support while he surrounds himself with capitalism personally. How sad you people on the left are.
Hierarchy isnt only inevitable, it is GOOD! Wolf is saying that "the people" dont want to be told what to do every minute of every work day but what he is proposing is exactly that! Socialism puts a cap on what you can do. Capitalism gives people the freedom to decide how much they want to participate and where. Some people want to be owners of their business and some people dont want that responsibility because they values more the freedom. And the whole thing about young people are looking closer at Socialism is a negative thing 😅 and it works against Wolfs argument! Especially when we know just how little these kids know about the world! I would be more persuaded if older folks from more socialist countries were praising that system. Are there any?
Excellent discussion! I have come to follow Dr Laffer quite eagerly due to IMHO his accurate description of economic circumstances. I grew up in a blue collar family and Dr Wolfe's descriptions of causes of income inequality reasonate strongly with me. I would love to hear these two minds agian specifically discuss what might be attempted to incentivise change within the context of the risk taken by the entrepreneur and the risk taken by the employee in joining the economic endeavor. Can risk be shared from the start with a better, more equal sharing of the reward? Possibly! Could government and unionization collaborate in the formation of enterprise that may deliver more equality of income? This seems to be possibly somehow connected with a more effective taxation. This discussion might acutally bear fruit! Dr Wolfe, Dr Laffer please collaborate! Both your minds together working on solution rather than differing on principle would be worth following! THANK YOU David Lin for bringing these minds together!
I respectfully disagree with the socialist here why lower regulations does give more wealth to the owners but more profits does just mean more jobs bt having profit means they increase wages because they have more profits workers can rise through the ranks and get higher wages quicker instead every year in 50 60 years we regulated busines more than deregulated so wages are stagnate !
Employees don’t take a risk. They are guaranteed their wages, even if I don’t make a dollar or if I lose money, I still have to pay them. That’s not a risk they can always go to a different company if my company fails.
Following Laffer's logic. Every time you use drug, you feel happy and high. That's a fact, not an opinion. There is scientific proof to this fact as well. Therefore, the way to get happiness is to use drug all the time.
Wolf never talks about how America would transition to a worker led economy which would involve the government simply taking ownership of businesses and giving it to the workers. This is grossly unfair and would do would do great harm to the American economy.
Wrong! The government wouldnt be the owner, the government would lend the money to the workers to buy the business. Say an owner wants to sell their business. They first have to offer it to the workers, and the workers would decide whether they would like to buy the business and set it up as a cooperative. If the workers decide no, then the owners are free to sell to whomever. If the workers vote and agree to do it, then the government would step in a provide the money and loans necessary for the workers to purchase and set up the cooperative. Its call the right of first refusal. Its really not that complicated and would help to build a very large worker cooperative sector in this country which on the contrary would be positive of great help to the workers of America.
@@Jstoney127 You're living in the land of Oz! Yes, that might work in the case of much smaller businesses, but where is the government going to come up with the trillions of dollars it would take to buy out larger companies? And if these worker run co-op's fail, who is going to reimburse the taxpayers for all those bad loans? I can see where it's "fun" to imagine an economy where workers get to own and run businesses without taking on any personal financial risks but it just isn't realistic.
@@ScottsFinancialThoughts Well, I guess you're also living in the land of OZ! The entire federal budget for 2024 is $6.5 trillion. But if the Feds were to buy out just those companies that trade on the stock market they would need to come up with $52 trillion which is totally impossible! And even if they could, that would add on to our current national debt that is at a record $34 Trillion. Interest payments alone on that debt this year will exceed what we pay on national defense! Scott, your "financial thoughts" aren't very impressive.
@@radioguy8662 What you stated is true, but you obviously have not been paying attention to what’s going on. We just bailed out the banks not long ago. There are banks failing and being bought right now. We are trillions in debt but yet maintaining and growing 100s of bases around the world. Paying billions to arm Ukraine and Israel. If the market falters billions more will be pumped to prop it up. You are talking about paying back the debt????? Who is talking about that??? The life cycle of the dollar is coming to an end. If you haven’t noticed power is being sent east. Paying back the debt. This guy is funny. Wrong game my friend!
@@josephs883 i do have proof and you are the one lying about real wages as is Wolff. See the St Louis Fed real compensation series as well as article by economist Scott Lincicome on the stagnant wage myth. This is a long running debunked myth that Scott backs up with multiple data sources.
@@ExPwner It seemed like a very good faith debate to me. The burden of proof is on you. What lies? Laffer was straight up wrong about real wages, but I don't accuse him of lying. It seems to me that you are the one acting in bad faith, and all can see it.
@@josephs883i just brought the proof but no, the one making the original claim about real wages was Wolff in the debate and now you with respect to Laffer. You have yet to respond to my sources and Wolff has no response to them either.
Why China's progress is fast is because it's directed primarily by a competent government. The country acts as a single company that directs everything depending on the primary needs of the population in contrary to a country with lots of private companies that can go in many directions.
Excellent video David! Compelling arguments on both sides but I would go with Wolf’s vision of a new type of socialism with democracy in the workplace. When Laffer gets exasperated and overtalks Wolff towards the end of the video shows he was on the ropes and losing the “debate”Honestly this is one of the best videos I’ve seen on the subject!
It’s a terrible idea hence why coops do not dominate in a free market. They make lower profits and pay lower wages. Forcing the economy to be coops like Wolff wants wrecked the USSR and Venezuela.
@@surfbum8166 you want democracy in the work place. Go start your own fucking business where everyone gets a vote on everything. What a joke. Meanwhile, the rest of us will run the businesses WE OWN the way we want to. You can leave if you don’t like it. Jesus.
The question isn't GDP growth vs real wage growth. It's the liberty grade for any society. Liberty / Freedom is the empatis behind all material progress / wealth growth. Slaves don't create. Freedom and Freemarket capitalism is the only capital input that truly matters!!
Each time when Laffer gets animated and wont let Wolff say another word on his thread it seems it is to try to derail Wolff to avoid that capitalism IS abandoning and/or reducing the reward for more and more workers (that have been its labor base). No matter what it may be doing for owners and investors what 'trickles down', as Laffers beloved Reagan liked to describe it, is excrement. Laffer wants you to look at wall street benefits and keep your eyes fixed on that, as if not noticing a crowd taking up torches and pitchforks near the horizon would make that crowd dissolve.
@@ExPwner Nonsense is claiming to be against authority and for capitalism (ancap colors, no?) Virtually every business other than worker co-ops and equal partnerships larger than one person ends up constituting a private government in the life of the person(s) in an employee role.
After such short time you have created the best macro channel out there, all categories. Congratulations!
Thanks! 😃
For real, I look forward to this channel every day at work. Its quickly become my #1 channel. I am mainly a crypto weirdo but gosh these macro talks are fascinating and I learn so much.
@@TheDavidLinReportA democratic workplace doesn't eliminate a hierarchy any more than a democracy does. It just changes and gives legitimacy to it.
@raygaub9861 Exactly. And if you listen to Professor Wolff's larger argument he clearly uses hierarchical co-ops as examples. The CEO still exists. But the major distinction is they are accountable to the employee base rather than the Board. And coming back to a more equitable society - it's pretty clear you will balance interests towards a longer term positioning rather than constant short term cycles to hit quarterly metrics rather than true longevity. And also compensation will obviously be managed to a level that the broader employee base feels is equitable. That does the mean same pay for unequel work, but also curbing the extremes occurring at both ends of the scale.
@@TheDavidLinReport Arthur Laffer makes me laugh. Having a phone may still make me poor among the living humans but if he compares me to the dead people from 1000 years ago, I am richer than all the dead Kings, because none of them had a phone. Laffer makes me laugh. Comparing the wealth of a living being to a dead being is very useful for the Wealthy.
I love that Laffer brought up Einstein as an example of rational thought. Einstein was a devout and outspoken socialist.
At first, I taught you said Esptein instead of Einstein
@@ericmacrae6871 oh damn, that would be different! 👀
You can take one part of what someone says without having to accept or validate everything.
Einstein was not really "outspoken" about it. He seldom mentioned it. He also admitted he knew nothing about the economy and was basically going off vibes
@@aktube9084 I wouldn't recommend making up things to make your point. History exists. This lie about history and repeat is common white supremacist patriarchal capitalist practice. I get it. When there is little moral ground to justify supporting the theft, murder and exploitation of humans and the planet a capitalist system needs, you must find any way to defend it. Hey you do you.
But Einstein in fact was understood the economy very well. It ain't rocket science. Economics is NOT that complex buddy. But w.s. capitalist will try to be gate keepers of their insane abstract art. LoL. Einstein even wrote an essay in 1949 titled "Why Socialism?". I own it, have read it and being someone who has taught science and economics classes, he understood it.
What fun fantasy will you conjure up now to defend this w.s. system of death?
The capitalism defender can't stop advertising his book. It's like a perfect example of capitalism and it's endless, mind numbing marketing and advertising.
Stil better than starvation
@@Dan16673you mean like the starvation of over 5 million children every year due to malnutrition and it's related diseases that happens under global capitalism?
@@Dan16673POV: you watch Fox News
because capitalism defenders are smart, they are not there to waste their time, better advertise and sell something while they are at it.
I hear you. I prefer communist posters and pamphlets. 😏
I like Prof. Wolff. He's not afraid to get in the ring with anyone and always very clear on his position...
He’s definitely not afraid and is very clear, but he’s straight up wrong.
He's not afraid to look like an idiot... He got schooled in this interview jsut as he got schooled when debating Gene Epstein..
@@Diabolical05yep this
@@ExPwnerancap = unable to think
@@kyleinpa5285He is totally right
I am enjoying this debate. I am learning a lot from Professor Wolf
@@hafifi57 never trust a socialist that lives under capitalism- by choice. What a coward
He never actually explained what he wants he just said he wants every employee to vote on everything the company does 🤡
@@hafifi57 Wolff is a lying socialist fool. Lol. My god. Get an education on economics
@@LeonardoPisano-sn2lp just cry men :p
Richard wolf honestly made a lot of things clear for me. I see what he's talking about with my eyes
Just another tankie
@@Dan16673 I don't know what that means. He's qualified and spot on with how capitalist functions
@@jermainemyrn19 another justifier of commies and their insanity
I think he is mostly wrong and his solution doesn't make any sense, democracy at the workplace? what the hell does that even mean? Worker doesn't own the workplace, they are just there to temporarily do some job and get paid for it. Worker doesn't care about the profits and losses, they get paid their market price and thats it.
@@sten260a co-op is a shared ownership of the company, so yes, he is talking about shared ownership by the workers essentially.
This debate is VERY telling when you have an economist that has worked in the White House say “democracy no matter where it is doesn’t work and we need to regulate who makes decisions"
EDIT: also David I must thank you for hosting this debate it is something that the US has been sorely missing for decades but I do think you should have done more at the end to prevent Dr. Laffer from interrupting Prof Wolff as he was never able to complete any of this thoughts due to Dr. Laffer constantly interrupting him and it wasn't until you stepped in and told Laffer to let Wolff finish that the conversation finally became stable again.
That is because he is an economist working with the facts and not a blowhard fool like Wolff who makes things up
Republicans always rudely cit people off.
What’s telling about it? The USA has never been a democracy. The founding fathers made sure it wasn’t. Its a republic/ representative democracy with two legislative bodies based on two separate criteria.
Pure democracy is just mob rule.
I agree.
Socialists and commies shouldn't have a voice anyways
Wow! There is NO MAINSTREAM MEDIA that comes close to this David. Not even 100 miles.
Thank you! I appreciate the gesture
UA-cam steals 30% of that superchat
Don't know how David managed to get those guests, but that was the best debate I've seen for a long time.
@@gort3969 UA-cam is run by a bunch of socialists
@@gort3969 "Stealing"? lol. I know on which side of this capitalism/socialism debate you reside. If not for UA-cam, you wouldn't know David Lin for squat. There's be ZERO audience. Think about it just a bit more...
Professor Wolff was so patient
It's like play chess with a dove.
@@audrajones because he knew he was being exposed as an idiot socialist
Wolff never explained what he wants he simply said he wants every employee to vote on everything the company does 🤡
@@LeonardoPisano-sn2lp How do you think a professional sports team would operate as a democracy? Lol. Nope.
@@karleells6540 the NFL is rigged so it's similar to our government
Any chance of you doing another debate or discussion between these two once they’ve read and analyzed one another’s book? That would be an amazing Part II to this discussion.
There would be no point to that. There is no debate between socialism and capitalism. There is no way possible to argue that socialism is superior to capitalism. The argument does not exist, and the arguments proffered are always full of holes. Socialism is a giant con game, one that usually winds up mass murdering its own citizens and impoverishing the rest. Richard Wolff and his tribe are THE problem in this world.
that would be nice, I don’t mean to be rude, but as someone who seems to never have had an original thought, i suspect Laffer is functionally illiterate.
@@ahsimiksnabac6576 project elsewhere with your illiteracy.
No that would be pointless and a waste of everyone's brain cells. When someone who during a two person debate can't comport themselves equitably when the other is answering you know there's something wrong.
Telling Dr Wolff to read his book repeatedly as if it's the definitive tome of economic theory and history is akin to people saying the Bible is a historical book.
Socialist countries failed due to imperialism of the USA and the vassal states of Europe. We're all now experiencing the inevitable demise of the criminal enterprise called capitalism and if the elites need a history lesson they should look to France in 1789. 🧐
Laffer is a bit of a yawn. He's a one-trick pony.
Ok, fine he thinks he knows how to make a bad system grow faster.
Wolff knows a better system.
They are on totally different levels.
This was excellent. I don’t praise UA-camrs often, but you were an excellent moderator. You let them speak and interact, keep questions relevant and quick, and kept things moving when necessary. Well done.
Up until the 1 hour mark , I’d agree the debate was managed well At that point , Laffer loses his cool , obviously unable to defend his position without bluster and speaking over Wolff. Unfortunately, I left at that point. Couldn’t get passed the screaming
I think he didn’t do such a good job… Laffer from close to the very start interrupted Wolff within seconds of starting his point, and completely took over from Wolff at least three or four times… our fine moderator did nothing about this.
@@johnmacward Wolff did not have a point. He was lying and making things up.
You actually did it!! Congrats on making this happen - pls do more debates, bull v bear!
Peter Schiff vs Michael Saylor
@@daveh6424 I would click that one even faster than I would this one.
Richard Wolff is an Educated Idiot ! Please stop indoctrinating kids.
Up until the end, this was by far the best debate of this contentious topic, that I've ever seen. Thank you for sharing this. Much respect
Agreed, Art Laffer towards the end just kept interrupting Wolff.
“…a government that TRIES”? How can the Government do anything against the wealthy and corporate when politicians literally rely on the wealthy and corporations for their careers?
exactly!!!!
Dictatorship of capital.
@@petercohen5563 get money out of politics
At least the Republican Party has common sense, and the policies of the Republican Party helps the middle class rather than the democrats that just CLAIM TO help the middle class.
Don’t forget the super pacs that give money to politicians like aipac then they take the same money to pay off politicians on both sides money laundering indeed
Kick ass David! Great seeing a debate!
By far and away, this has been THE best show you’ve done and it was incredible!!! Mainstream media doesn’t do this and you have two titans debating. It was such an awesome show!!! Loved it! Well done David!
Outstanding David!!! We need more such debates vs hearing someone spout their opinion unchallenged.
Bravo to David to bring them both in for the debate! Lol😅
I love how Professor Wolff knows capitalism better than Mr. Laffer does who is a major supporter of it. I find that this is a very common when talking to anyone how is a large supporter of free markets and capitalism as it stands. Rather funny if you think about it.
How did you come to that conclusion? Richard Wolff couldn't even define capitalism or give a direct definition for it while debating destiny.. Nor can he give a direct definition of socialism... I am curious though, how did you come to the conclusion that Wolff "knows" capitalism more then Laffer?? I suspect you came to that conclusion because his though on it aligns with yours..?
Absolute nonsense, its clear Mr. Wolff never worked in the economy and instead used his sheltered being as an academic to pump his brain full of abstract macro economics like Marx.
He doesnt understand the policies hes fighting for are bogus and completely unrealistic. Its like someone who thinks they know how to fight cause they watched Rocky.
If you want me to go into Detail let me know..
@@Diabolical05Professor Wolfe is also a historian. He would know more about the historical context of capitalism. He always gives historical context when speaking.
It doesn't matter how many statistical figures you wanna throw out, it doesn't mean you're right in your analysis or your presentation of them. Which is all Laffer did. Aside from agreeing with most of Dr Wollf's arguments.
If I remember correctly, the professor gave Destiny a historical lesson. He didn't want to hear it, understand it or acknowledge it. Much like most do when you challenge their views.
Wolff does NOT know capitalism better as shown by him lying right out of the gate and being corrected by Laffer
Well, it's impossible to support capitalism if you actually understand it.
My take away from Laffer's argument is that he wrote a book and was the first political capitalist to go to China in the 70s.
But did you know he wrote a book? I wonder if he'll tell us
@@TwoTonTaftMaybe read and learn some. Should cure the socialist disease
Laffer never mentioned that + 200 big american corporations went to China so to benefit from low taxation production and cheaper exports to the Us making huge corporattions very wealthy. Now he blames China for the economic downturn in the Us economy. De- dollarisation and freezing foreign assets and weaponizing the petro- dollar makes investors flee the Us dollar. The Fed reserve bank foreign assets are leaving the dollar as a world stable currency. The world doesn't trust the Us anymore. The Us elite shot itself in the foot. The chickens are coming home to roost,or boomerang effect is another way of saying things. Western unipolar hegemony is declining..! The multi- polar world is on the rise. Rather Sooner than later all the institutions installed after WW2 will be obsolete. We in the west need the money to create new jobs,having double glazing and energy efficient heating systems installed and affordable houses being build. So stable secure jobs will make us happy. What do the americans want? 2 jobs? Being obese and diabetic and eating crap fast food junk that tastes like cardboard or sitting at a family table eating healthy home made food and not rely on drugmedication..! Let's make a choice.🙏🙏🙏
Most people, like Laffer, take the opportunity to use these shows to sell their books.He still believes that the capitalistic system is still the only answer to become a great nation. But who runs the show in a great nation? The hard working american poleople that need to have 2 jobs to "make months end meet". Why does the Us rely on cheap imported oil from faraway countries while it sits on its own oilreserves? Too expensive to dig up your own oil, not enough money to be made? You Mister Gaffer should tell your fellow people the real truth that your country De- INDUSTRIALIZED since the 70ies onwards and that your american + 200 big corporations went to China. Big hypocrit so you are..! Where do you hide your stash? In the Us or on an offshore account where your tax office cannot tax you and your wealthy friends. Stop talking bullshit and interrupt Richard Wolff in a rude manner.
Living in denial is like believing in your own lies and selling these to the public still hoping they will buy these lies...! DHEUU..! PEOPLE do not read books anymore You tube gives more accurate and updated info,Laffer. By the time you wrote that book the book is gone obsolete..! Waste of paper and ink. China invented the ink..! Did you know that?
Great work David! These are the kind of debates we need!
Fantastic show!! Thank you, David!!
What is the point of having a moderator if they are going to let one guest talk over the other guest consistently
Very poor moderation
Exactly
Thank you for bringing dr wolff🎉
A superb debate & discussion to have had, for which I’m very grateful to have had access to !….Also, writing to you from Japan, I’d just like to add that it’s lovely to see things like this organised & moderated by a fellow East Asian ! Not something we often get to see in / from the West…😊
Laffer is a rich powerful person living in TN. He is immune to the fact that TN has one of the lowest life expectancies in the country; highest number of diabetes, cancer, and un/underinsured (TN never took the ACA Medicaid expansion); one of the lowest residentially-owned property rates; some of the lowest education scores in the country; and on and on. The people have been exploited since the state was founded, and it has only gotten worse the last 20 yrs. It has never really changed from a plantation economy--with a few rich, a handful of middle class, and most at the very bottom of the economic pyramid. TN is consistently ranked one of the most corrupt states in the nation! So, Laffers comments about TN, are, as usual for him, only partly factual. Its a great place if youre rich like Laffer. Otherwise, it's miserable!
Yes and they are kidding themselves - we never really abolished slavery!
Ya if only the gov came in and forced it better
@@aubergineaura9441 Laffer is a brilliant truth teller vid wolf is a stupid lying socialist
Good 'ole Tennessee
@@hoggarththewisesmeagol8362 live free in Tennessee
My gosh this is the best, an explosion of knowledge. I save it for tonight entertainment.
“China’s economy collapsing in front of our very eyes” 😂😂😂
“China collapsing in front of our eyes” haha ROFLMAO, this reminds me of Gordon Chang, that he said China is collapsing every year for the last 20 years. Look at the debt ratio between China and USA. We, USA will collapse and buried 6 feet under long before China shows any sign of collapsing.
Right? They've been saying China is "collapsing" or "is about to collapse" for years on end. Maybe it will someday, but it sure as hell hasn't yet, lmao
the moment spill this, i sense con man talk
@@fannyalbi9040well I knew he was a fascist from the start and I am not surprised that what he said because people like him are clueless about how the economy run especially the Chinese economy
@@ericmacrae6871 eat regurgitation 🤮 is disgusting yet most people buy it.
*Laffer>Wolff*
Great debate! Now I want to see the data that says that if the rich get richer, we do too, LOL. Thank you David!
It usually just leads to homelessness and high costs; the money gets smuggled at the top, the costs rise for the rest. Just look at all the problems where the tech booms occurred.
Supply-side economics, AKA trickle-down economics, AKA horse and sparrow economics . . . because the horse eats the grain and the sparrow picks food out of the horse's shit.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics
@@GeoffreyPickettsno it doesn’t
OP that data is at Our World In Data
@@ExPwneryeah. It's so easy to find. I knew that data point prior to this debate and I must believe Laffer did as well.
Wages haven't moved for 6 or so decades, adjusted for inflation.
Love the debate format David!
David you are amazing for arranging this. Also shout out to Arthur for showing and defending his position against Wolf. I tend to be more sympathetic to Wolf’s position but I am glad he is being challenged
Wolf is very articulate so it’s hard to find people willing to debate him.
Can’t wait to listen to this and I hope it was a sound debate.
Yaron Brook debated RW very well.
@@Raelspark no he didn’t, historical revisionism is hilarious.
@@ryanosterman2651 Yaron Brook defeated Wolff on the facts.
@@Raelspark no he wasn’t he was lying. He made a bunch of switcheros and disputed the facts when they weren’t in his favor.
@@ryanosterman2651 that’s a lie. Yaron clearly had the facts and it was Wolff who was lying.
Per Lars Rasmussen, prime minister of Denmark, "I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,”
I can't thank you enough David. This style of discussion was so common in the U.S. on MSM 40-60 years ago. I look forward to the future where brilliant minds like Art & Richard are showcased on independent channels because I have no hope MSM will provide it. It's super difficult to find someone to debate Richard, so hats off to Art, & again David, much appreciated 🙏
Its sad to see people like arthur laffer bragging hes the one constantly on CNN, NBC etc and having a bigger influence.
@@bcadams75 nothing brilliant about Richard.
Arthur Laffer and the moderator won't let Dr. Wolff speak.
he is a vietnamese suffering severe stockholm syndrome. that’s why
They did until Wolff was lying.
@@arthurzetes What lies?
the part in the video where laffer calls out wolffs lies @@zarategabe
wow great retort, "justify your assertion" "uh the part where my assertion was justified"@@arthurzetes
The very best economic discussion I have ever seen. Wish those who make the rules could have such a discussion. Thanks so much,
They can but they'd rather talk to their donors.
Seemed like they were talking past each other and focusing on their expertise. Wolff was talking about the organisation of the workplace and Laffer was responding by alluding to economic growth after tax cuts in particular administrations. It was actually a very pointless discussion lmao
Laffer is a demon he only wants to cut taxes for the rich and cut social programs for the poor that's literally his entire economic platform and kansas tried it and it failed miserably
@@guapochico69 Kansas did not put into place his ideas. Quit lying
@ExPwner so you literally had no idea kansas did this? All you have to do is look it up its on the southern poverty law centers website and the kansas economic forums website. Every kansas economist learns about arthur laffurs ridiculous policy failure. The fact you have never even heard of this explains how you could possibly support this dumb$hit
It’s not a debate. Capitalism wins.
Yeah it already did a long time ago. Socialists are delusional and have to lie to try to peddle their garbage ideology as shown here by Wolff lying.
No
@@greenhammer3263 too late. You lost 200 years ago.
@@karleells6540 no. Just like the death of feudalism
@@greenhammer3263 feudalism is not capitalism. Nice try.
The poorest people in the world dream of living in capitalist nations, not socialist ones.
You’re unbelievably misinformed
Respectful discourse. Two gentlemen. We need many more like them.
However, we need less socialists.
Richard Wolff is an Educated Idiot ! Please stop indoctrinating kids.
Fantastic discussion. Great job David. Part 2 after they read each others books please.
OMG! David you are the MAN for making this debate happen! God bless you brother.
China did not "take off" economically until they adopted capitalistic markets.... 1000 points of light... something like that. It was capitalism that allowed Chinas growth.
Exactly. Wolff is a lying idiot.
China's "capitalism" is still guided from top to bottom by a large powerful communist party. This is NOTHING comparable to anything Laffer and western capitalists are advocating.
They have always had state owned enterprises and still do. Banking is a public utility in China that is tightly regulated. Their economy is not financialized like ours and their central bank writes off bad debt. Our banks keep garbage loans on the books as "non-performing" assets. They do not allow monopoly capitalism to run them into the ground which is why they have commercialized their own industry which incidentally produce better products than ours but our government doesn't allow Huwei and Chinese EV's to be sold here. Their economy is similar to our 19th and early 20th American System that Hamilton through Teddy Roosevelt envisioned.
Black cat white cat as long as it catches the mice. These debates do not take place in China not because they are not allowed but because it completely misses the point. The underpinning of the China system is socialism meaning how to raise the standard of living for all Chinese people. Some capitalistic methodology is not a problem.
Debate of debates! Thank you, David.
I don't think I've possibly clicked faster on a youtube notification in my life! 😄
Great job, David! This was an amazing debate.
One of your best! Really enjoyed these guys! Get them back on soon.
Art Laffer kinda lost it at around 1:15:00. Seemed to almost switch off from being somewhat reasonable to "im not gonna let Richard finish his points anymore".
Well, he was frustrated. He was defeated intellectually, not knowing and understanding the points that Wolff was making. All he had left is to talk over and pout.
@@timc1604no he wasn’t. He refuted Wolff’s lies directly
Because art got sick and tired of wolffs bullshit lies.
@@timc1604 Jesus. NOWHERE in the world are Richard wolffs ideas successful. You get that? Richard attracts the dumbest people
@@karleells6540 that is how I think of than other side!
Absolutely wonderful. Two great thinkers, David sets the tone. It turns out awesome. 💯💯👏👏❤❤
I wouldn't call Wolff a great thinker, a good BS artist maybe.
@@huwhitecavebeast1972 exactly
@@huwhitecavebeast1972wow great analysis
@@huwhitecavebeast1972ah yes trickle-down economic as work so well and we see how one of the framer of trickle-down economic refuse to take responsibility for the mess that he has created
@@ericmacrae6871 there was no such mess created. You are again spouting bullshit with no evidence
Such a rare thing to see such bright accomplished scholars having a respectful debate. I was surprised with how much they agreed. Their assessments of the current economic state and economic history were very similar, but their prescriptions were very different.
Thank you for your work Sir! This channel was outstanding already, but you just brought it to the next level! 🔥🔥🔥
Glad you enjoy it!
My God... What a wonderful debate! Should be on TV and everywhere! I'm in awe really. This is what politicians should be doing... Sit in front of the public, present the numbers and figures, go through the decades and see what's right and wrong. I must congratulate EVERYONE who were part of this! Arthur, Richard and David... Just... UNREAL. This was amazing!!! Thank you all
David, I don’t know if you realize this, but with this kind of awesome content, you are directly competing with Netflix and prime. I would actually watch this video in a movie theater for a date night with popcorn!
Best date idea
@@TheDavidLinReport Dude... You should be proud of yourself! It was AMAZING. And yo... You got two Champions of their ideology to level the game. It was great! This is what politicians should be doing you know.... Not that circus we see on tv's
@@TheDavidLinReport Arthur Laffer makes me laugh. Having a phone may still make me poor among the living humans but when he compares me to the dead people from long ago, I am richer than all the dead Kings, because none of them had a phone. Comparing the wealth of a living being to a dead being is very useful for the Wealthy.
@@Trip4man Richard Wolff is no champion. He’s a fucking SOCIALIST ECONOMIST. LOL
If Mr Wolff's conception of corporations would work, it would be in place now.
There is no law forbidding Mr Wolff's corporate theory.
Commentors... Who do you think won the debate.
It was close but I would give the W to Richard Wolff.
Both made sound points. One ideology has never been tried, while the other has been rinsed & repeated but still doesn't work. Removing my personal bias, Wolff was patient & concise, while Art's cognitive dissonance made him keep repeating capitalism's broken record ideology.
Nothing close about it.
Nah Laffer wins this one hands down just on the opening clip and Wolff lying
Richard, hands down!
@@ExPwner its funny how youre going around saying Prof wolff is lying or wrong, and yet you can never seem to point out how or why?
Fascinating isnt it? its almost like you dont even know yourself what is right or wrong.
but i know thats the case seeing youre profile picture, the Yellow and Black denoting a Anarcho Capitalist, someone who follows the teachings of the most silliest and obviously juvenile thought of economic belief, that somehow if you just remove the state/govarnment and leave things to the free market that humans will look out for eachother and not have people with all the wealth in society exert their power and will onto the populace to become the new (and impossible to remove) State/Govarnment. while destroying everything else int he world in persuit of profit.
but im not going to exspect intelligence from someone with such obviously ill concieved beliefs on economics as you!
Dr. Wolf is brilliant
Yet he never explained exactly what he wants 🤡
Great content, as always !❤
Dr. Laffer was and is correct on China's economic growth/decline.
Yeah, cuz he argues with good philosophical strategies.
Hey David just a suggestion after around 1:10:00 when the conversation became heated there could have been some more intervention from you as a moderator to organize speaking times. It felt like you had disappeared here. Otherwise great job with this presentation!
I totally agree, capitalism guy just wanted to interrupt and stop professor wolf from talking, what a pity man
@@GA-gd3wi Wolff never shuts up, and he’s always full of shit.
This is one of the most productive discussions I heard. Honest conversations like that would propel humanity in the right direction! This is exactly what we needed to have in the USA. Excellent job David thank you so much!
Laffer kept mischaracterizing Wolff's position. He kept calling him Chairman Xi while also praising China for it's growth?? Quite embarrassing, TBH.
I've really enjoyed this debate. I think both Arthur and Richard want the same thing, they just don't agree on how to do it. My personal view is that since 1972 and especially 2008 the central banks have used quantitive easing to increase the value of assets, making the financial markets and corporations more wealthy, whilst fiat currencies have been debased, causing inflation that has hit the working classes especially hard. This excessive printing lead to the revolution in France and Germany going to war. Elites elsewhere in Europe made sure they didn't make the same mistakes, and so the game continues!
Unfortunately I would say they do not want the same thing at all. Perhaps due to his long standing career as a defender of the current economic and political system, Prof. Laffer is, as Prof. Wolff pointed out, naturalizing the capitalist system. He implies that the employer/employee dichotomy we've grown used to over the last 300 years is inherent to humanity, and that we have somehow reached the end of history, with no way to progress as a society. So what he proposes is a bunch of tweaks here and there to the same system, hoping that it may somehow change anything at all.
There are two completely different conversations going on during this debate:
- Prof. Wolff is analyzing the history and evolution of economic systems, through the lens of the dominant workplace relationships (master/slave defining slavery, lord/serf defining feudalism, employer/employee defining capitalism), and then proposing what relationship is to be the next dominating one in society;
- On the other hand we have Prof. Laffer, who is discarding this analysis completely as "I don't think it will work but i'd love for it to", while in the meantime actively working to undermine the efforts of anyone trying to achieve said society or said workplace relationship. And I mean this quite literally as he has taken part of a few administrations that intervened, both militarily and through the CIA, in the internal affairs of other countries, predominantly in Central America. He contributes to the efforts to remove any socialist or communist platform anywhere as part of the legacy of the Red Scare.
He definitely does not want the same thing as Prof. Wolff. When he says "we want the same thing, we just don't agree on how to do it" he is either completely delusional, or does it as a desperate attempt to shut down the conversation as if it's just a petty difference rather than deep baseline divergences. You can see it on Prof. Wolff's face just how absurd he knows this phrase to be
But then again the net worth of Prof. Laffer is estimated to be around $8 Million (stockholder and one of the directors of his company), he is one of the primary beneficiaries of the current economic system and therefore most of what he does is part of an effort of self-preservation.
It is very difficult to make someone understand something when their career and livelihood is dependent on not understanding it.
Wolf is like my creepy computer science teacher when i was a teen. He always smelled funny and didn't make sense.
Love this debate. We need more brilliant minds like these two more often.
@@josorto9505 Laffer is brilliant, while Wolff is laughable.
Laffer would just not let Wolff speak at the end
Well, he was frustrated. He was defeated intellectually, not knowing and understanding the points that Wolff was making. All he had left is to talk over and pout.
@@timc1604he refuted Wolff’s bullshit. Wolff lied. Grow up. Wolff was the one getting owned here
@@ExPwnerNot at all but you would only think that way if you suffer from the same denial these capitalist supporters do
@@ExPwnerif he is right then he doesn't need to interrupt him and keep him from speaking, the truth will shine on its own. Tyrants , dictators and bullies that don't have the truth on their act like Laffer and you are defending him
Well done dude, for bringing these two great minds together. Ofcourse very educative and insightful. You said it and you made it happen. Cheers!
@@princeannor7518 no one that’s a socialist is a “great mind”. Lol
Great debate. Need more of this!
Very good interview. The bottom line is a capitalist system and well as a Democratic Republic require a moral society. The founders of the United States new that the citizenry had to be moral. It is even more important that our leaders be moral (government or company). I would think most people would say we are lest moral today than just 20 years ago.
Haft to ask which of the gazillion gender should are moral leaders be? And who chooses decides them? Pretty clear we no longer have elections we have selections
The greatest generation upheld values because their friends died for them. It seems as that generation waned, so did our values.
I agree with that, but it is ironic since liberal capitalism is (as I see it) one of the main driving forces of the corrosion of moral and values we now see today.
This was NEVER a moral country and never will be until the empire rulers are rubbed out and the descendants of enslaved African people and Indigenous people receive restoration. This empire was founded on slavery and genocide, there’s nothing moral about that.
Who cares. Capitalism is freedom.
Great debate Jeremy ! We need more of this in the senate and house. Straight up debate
Thanks David, great show! It did feel like they both want the same outcome/euphoria. Laffer seems to think the current system can be fixed, and maybe it can short term (micro). However, as Jeff Booth says: "A system problem cannot be solved from the system creating the problem." - Wolff seems to have more of the "macro" mindset.
The exact opposite is the case. The socialist wants to fix the problems caused by socialists policies with more socialist policies, aka micro manage.
The capitalist wants to fix the problems caused by socialist policies by abolishing these policies.
Democratizing companies sounds nice until you realize all the bureaucracy that comes along with democratic decision making. Companies need to be nimble and adaptive, but I dont blame the socialist prof for not knowing that.
Studying Marx and other abstract literature about macro economics seldom leads to realistic and practical policies.
Wolff may not necessarily be for scraping the whole capitalist system. In many of his talks the big thing
he cares about the most is the relationship between the Employer and the Employee. He really believes
it's unfair. If that problem can be fixed and made more Fair, I doubt Wolff want to kill and cook the goose
that lays the golden eggs --- which can be taxed for social programs.
@@themoonrider351 it seems you didn't understand what socialism is ... there aren't socialist policies. Any "socialist" policies were implemented by capitalists and their political actor puppets to prevent the volatility and instability of any capitalist system. If economic power, actual power of land, resources, people... were democratic, our political system would become more democratic. We aren't talking about more or less policy and regulation. We are talking about a change in the actual economic system.
Capitalist apologists also never acknowledge that ALL capitalist wealth is built on theft exploitation and state violence. Nation states historically developed because of the oppressive needs of royalty and then capitalists. Countries exist because of violence and dominance.
I believe most humans, if they experienced a worker coop, would choose to have a say in their well being and how their company ethically operates in their community and beyond. Statistically and historically, whether ya wanna believe it or not, has higher productivity, higher worker-owner morale, safer work spaces. But some peeps rather believe in "dreams" than understand the material realities of systems and how humans relate to one another.
It is literally the American dream... to everyone being an owner of the work they do.
At the end of the day, capitalist apologists MUST be honest that they are antidemocratic and more champions of dictatorships... boards of dictators (oh sorry it was euphemized as directors). That they believe the majority of humans are beneath or less than a minority of the wealthy, predominantly white straight men.
Hey peeps should support what they support. Just when you take pride in a system which relies on violence, theft and exploitation through economic dictatorship, there will be consequences.
@@Sandcrackattack
Literally checked all the boxes for cultural marxist buzz word bingo when reading your comment.
There are in fact socialist policies, just because they have been implemented in a capitalist system by capitalist, doesnt change the nature of the policy.
The chinese government has implemented a bunch of capitalistic policies despite being a communist regime on paper.
Besides the fact that nobody seems to be able to give a comprehensive descritption about how your anarcho communistic or anarcho syndicalistic system is supposed function in real life, the attempts I have read have about as much to do with democracy as the democratic peoples republic of north korea.
But feel free to prove me wrong, descripe your utopian system to me and answer me these three questions:
1. How do you ensure that your ideal system remains socialist / anarcho communist?
2. Will your citizens enjoy human rights and if so, how are you planning to protect those?
3. If you democratize your companies, will employees (in this case also the owners) have to cover for finanical losses the company might suffer?
@@Sandcrackattackand when you point those things how capitalism is a neo-slavery system they think that you are nuts
Omg wolf is such an actor. He neglects to mention the mafias that run the sytems of the world. Good lord.
The mafia is the capitalism running the show in the name of money 💰 and greed
Wow…..wow…wow, what a great debate, thanks so much for bringing this kind of content, this is priceless
Great discussions like this used to be the norm in America; we need to bring that back. Thanks for hosting this fantastic debate!
Also, the fact that both men are older than our president, yet 1,000X more intelligent, shows that mental acuity is far more important than age.
And they are 100,000X more intelligent than Trump.
@@TXLionHeart there’s nothing intelligent about socialism
I used to support capitalism but after watching this, I am no longer convinced of its merits.
I guess it depends on what side of the fence you're sitting on. If you have enough Capital, then you don't have to work for a living. You can just live off of other people's labour in perpetuity. However, if you're a worker, what are the people being exploited, then capitalism really sucks.
@@michaelmappin1830capitalists are not living off of other people’s labor. Don’t you get tired of lying for a living? You already got proven wrong on this multiple times before including on live debate. The labor theory of value that you are relying upon to peddle this false statement has no merit.
Also OP is blatantly lying. He did not support capitalism.
@@thegoodspringguy that is the true purpose of educating oneself: to earn the ability to change your opinion.
@@ExPwner So what is passive income? What is rent seeking? You deny basic logic so there is no use trying to reason with you. You simply fantasize about being a property owner that can subject others or to be subjected yourself, even if you do not admit it.
Professor Wolf clearly has no awareness of Yugoslav socialism, which aligns perfectly with his depiction of his ideal vision for socialism.
@@VM-ob8bs exactly
Art Laffer is a joke! Pun intended. Classic capitalism and Neo capitalism are completely different. After world war 2 true capitalism was slowly transformed into the Neo capitalism we have now. That is why we have such income inequality today. When the very rich make the rules through lobbying the benefits of those rules will all go to the rich. The poor collect the crumbs left behind. Bailouts are not true capitalism, but socialism for the rich. If we lived in a real capitalistic system the bailouts would not have happened causing all the boom bust cycles that lead to inflation . The rich want socialism for themselves (Bailouts) when they fail, and capitalism when they succeed. Our world is run by hypocrites!
It’s political, and the super rich now own the political.
100 💯 agree with you.
Yeesh I cannot swallow someone equating socialism with bailouts.
Such bails follow concentration of wealth, monopoly, ingestion of government and externalization of losses : features of capitalism. Socialism is worker ownership [ exists because workers were mistreated in capitalism [ dictatorship at work ] and co-ops are self-correcting to approximate community interests.
@@greenovertone literally none of that is true. None of those are features of capitalism and that is not the definition of socialism.
True capitalism has never existed. I agree about Laffer.
These guy's are both right and both wrong at the same time. This is absolutely beautiful and brilliant. Thank you all. 👊🏽👍🏽🙏🏽🇮🇳🇬🇧
I tend to agree with your comment.
Laffer and Wolff didn't even discuss many other essential topics. My question is, why?
True capitalism hasn't existed for decades. And neither gentleman acknowledge that fact. And that's only one item they didn't discuss.
@@scottmccutcheon9828 So well said. When the big bank's f*uk up who bails them out? Socialism is the little people. But otherwise it's Capitalism. Crazy shit.
@@scottmccutcheon9828 True capitalism has never existed and never will. Big government systems are always morphing to serve chosen groups. Particularly those at the top in maintaining their status. Those at the the bottom currently get to maintain theirs, while more join their ranks.
At the end of every epoch, the serpent eats its tail and civilizations crumble.
Richard Wolff is an Educated Idiot ! Please stop indoctrinating kids.
@@scottmccutcheon9828 "True capitalism"? What do you mean? When most people say this, they say something like, "we've never truly had a 'free market'". Is that what you're trying to say?
We haven't had truly free markets because the investors don't want that. They want to socialize their risks and privatize the profits. This is 100% what happened in 2008.
Capitalism is the natural way humans do business. It came about by itself. Socialism has to be forced by government, it came from economic theory.
Absolute nonsense, private property requires agreement, which does not "come about by itself" or *enforcement* which clearly doesn't either.
You have to believe specific things to think "capitalism is the natural way humans do business" and think that means there's nothing to justifiably criticize further.
Greetings from Germany! This was a really great debate. Great work!👍
Thank you, Professor Wolff!
Wolff? That fool? Wolf is a typical socialist that chooses to live under capitalism. Coward.
No thanks.
@@jeffzoller puke
And as of this recording you've proven yourself to be a phenomenal and fair moderator as well!
Excellent debate! Thank you
🔥 You always know who’s genuinely open minded vs who’s genuinely closed minded to new concepts and ideas when one person constantly begins to interrupt, loudly talks over the over the other with straw man, whataboutism debate tactics. Wolff is 100% on point. Sadly, there’s a lot to laugh about with Laffer. The biggest thing Laffer doesn’t recognize is really quite simple. That is, If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always gotten. EOS. 👀💯🚬
Wolff is not at all “on point” and spewed outright lies. Correcting someone else when they lie is not being closed minded or losing the argument, it is righting the wrong.
@@caseykuzdrowski5204 so true
@@caseykuzdrowski5204 Laffer is on the winning side globally, Wolff is not.
Get a fucking clue.
This was brilliant, glad we can have 2 opposing individuals debate and come to a middle ground sometimes
One thing though about productivity which wasn't mentioned was the introduction and implementation of heavy machinery and A.I which has boosted our productivity dramatically..
The simplest task of having 10 men dig a hole was replaced with an excavator
Accountants replaced by calculators
Assembly line workers replaced with robots
The list goes on
While the part about productivity is very true that machines helped improve productivity, and yes those machines do come at an expense to the owner, does that justify that the owner can now pocket all of the added benefits from that machinery while giving their workers none of it? You used to need 4 people washing dishes in a restaurant before the dishwasher came in. Now you can wash all of your dishes with one person, so you continue to pay that one person the same wage you used to pay the 4 even though the 1 person washes everything in your restaurant? Sure the machine cost $10k to put into place, but should the worker receive no benefit of the machine, only the owner not having to pay the extra labor?
This is the problem, businesses will always pay as little as possible so they get to keep a larger chunk of the profit for themselves. The only thing that leveled the playing field for workers were unions. We need more unions so the workers aren’t continually exploited by the owners who will do whatever they need to to save money and make more for themselves.
@barnabusdoyle4930 I think with the example of the washing machine replacing 3 workers and having 1 worker load the machine, doesn't that mean the worker now has to work less because the machine is doing the work? I'm not saying their wages should be the same either that worker is now barring more responsibility too and should be compensated accordingly.
But to say the worker should just absorb the other 3 sets of wages is absurd, what's the point of investing in a business without a reasonable profit?
@barnabusdoyle4930 and unions used to stand for something before they lost their heads and asked for way too much, I'm in the construction industry in Australia and the workers are overpaid and under worked. I figured this out as a 3 year apprentice watching these overpaid and over compensated monkeys do nothing and watch firm after firm go bust from sub 2% margins
You know most big companies in construction actually take work on to just pay wages, what's the point
@@MrAnderson3 I live in the US, we too have unions that have gotten themselves way too much power and that has caused serious problems. The teacher and police unions being the top 2. However, we also have a majority of our workforce not under any kind of unions but instead have politicians working to undermine and destroy unions altogether. These workers are exploited in every way possible, from nursing staff being required to be run ragged taking on a larger and larger pool of patients while getting less and less support. The railroads, who might as well not have a union at all, work insane schedules and have the companies they work for constantly cut staffing levels, not invest in maintaining their equipment and requiring the workers to do what is literally impossible.
There definitely needs to be a balance in worker rights and corporate power. In the US, corporate power is too heavy, while in the EU and Australia the unions have a bit too much power.
@barnabusdoyle4930 were on the same page mate👍 as long as government representatives can come into office making 100k a year and leave their time a millionaire then nothing will change
More debates like this please. It would also be interesting to see discussions on nationalism vs globalism, the future of the dollar and other currencies (ie crypto, gold, alternative reserves), and blue state vs red state economics
Nationalism vs globalism is just code for Nazi vs Jews. It has just become inappropriate for Nazis to talk about killing Jews in public so they use said words.
All countries are nationalist and globalist.
@@phoenixmetazoa blue cities are a disaster even in red states
Wolf is such a worm. He knows that the mafia runs it and yet he lies to our faces. 😂
I cannot believe how the GDP is still used as a meaningful measure of growth in a society.
Becos if we are using PPP terms, US is no longer No.1.
Read a macro book sometime
@@arnavsrivastava458will do.
Nothing worse than communism.
The moderator ought to have asked Dr Laffer to let Dr Wolf speak without interruption toward the end of this ; I doubt I'll watch another one of these discussions hosted by Mr. Lin given how unfairly Dr Wolf was treated. Shameful...
indeed. then again, he is a vietnamese suffering severe stockholm syndrome. that’s why
@@johnHofweber it’s hard not to interrupt such a proliferation of lies by wolff
@@karleells6540 well then, if you ever host such a discussion, I'll try to avoid that too...
@@johnHofweber notice you ignore the lies by Wolff. You also ignore the hypocrisy of Wolff by his socialist support while he surrounds himself with capitalism personally. How sad you people on the left are.
@@johnHofweber so you think a lying professor should not be called out repeatedly? Jesus.
Hierarchy isnt only inevitable, it is GOOD! Wolf is saying that "the people" dont want to be told what to do every minute of every work day but what he is proposing is exactly that! Socialism puts a cap on what you can do. Capitalism gives people the freedom to decide how much they want to participate and where. Some people want to be owners of their business and some people dont want that responsibility because they values more the freedom.
And the whole thing about young people are looking closer at Socialism is a negative thing 😅 and it works against Wolfs argument! Especially when we know just how little these kids know about the world! I would be more persuaded if older folks from more socialist countries were praising that system. Are there any?
Excellent discussion! I have come to follow Dr Laffer quite eagerly due to IMHO his accurate description of economic circumstances. I grew up in a blue collar family and Dr Wolfe's descriptions of causes of income inequality reasonate strongly with me. I would love to hear these two minds agian specifically discuss what might be attempted to incentivise change within the context of the risk taken by the entrepreneur and the risk taken by the employee in joining the economic endeavor. Can risk be shared from the start with a better, more equal sharing of the reward? Possibly! Could government and unionization collaborate in the formation of enterprise that may deliver more equality of income? This seems to be possibly somehow connected with a more effective taxation. This discussion might acutally bear fruit! Dr Wolfe, Dr Laffer please collaborate! Both your minds together working on solution rather than differing on principle would be worth following! THANK YOU David Lin for bringing these minds together!
Laffer is wrong. He mixes up correlation with causation. And if what he said was true the world wouldn’t be what we see right now
@@pokeyyt2 wrong. Laffer got it right and the world today while it has flaws is better thanks to capitalism
I respectfully disagree with the socialist here why lower regulations does give more wealth to the owners but more profits does just mean more jobs bt having profit means they increase wages because they have more profits workers can rise through the ranks and get higher wages quicker instead every year in 50 60 years we regulated busines more than deregulated so wages are stagnate !
@@ExPwner so you do live under a rock of protected privileges sheltered from the working poor.
@@slimmerskimmer no. Try again
Employees don’t take a risk. They are guaranteed their wages, even if I don’t make a dollar or if I lose money, I still have to pay them. That’s not a risk they can always go to a different company if my company fails.
Who guarantees their wages? How will you pay them, if they don’t make you profit? You still have profit, sir, AFTER you pay them wages. Eh? 🥴
Following Laffer's logic. Every time you use drug, you feel happy and high. That's a fact, not an opinion. There is scientific proof to this fact as well. Therefore, the way to get happiness is to use drug all the time.
Not happy. Just high.
@@arthurzetes Is there a difference really?
@@hehmda yes. High is a sense of euphoria. Happy is a more calm feeling.
@@emmeadowmitbbs3537 that’s ok. Capitalism has been proven to be the global winner by far. Fuck socialist failings
No. Laffer speaks to common sense. Wolff just lies about common sense
Just found you. Great content!!! ❤😃
Wolf never talks about how America would transition to a worker led economy which would involve the government simply taking ownership of businesses and giving it to the workers. This is grossly unfair and would do would do great harm to the American economy.
Wrong! The government wouldnt be the owner, the government would lend the money to the workers to buy the business. Say an owner wants to sell their business. They first have to offer it to the workers, and the workers would decide whether they would like to buy the business and set it up as a cooperative. If the workers decide no, then the owners are free to sell to whomever. If the workers vote and agree to do it, then the government would step in a provide the money and loans necessary for the workers to purchase and set up the cooperative. Its call the right of first refusal. Its really not that complicated and would help to build a very large worker cooperative sector in this country which on the contrary would be positive of great help to the workers of America.
@@Jstoney127 You're living in the land of Oz! Yes, that might work in the case of much smaller businesses, but where is the government going to come up with the trillions of dollars it would take to buy out larger companies? And if these worker run co-op's fail, who is going to reimburse the taxpayers for all those bad loans? I can see where it's "fun" to imagine an economy where workers get to own and run businesses without taking on any personal financial risks but it just isn't realistic.
@@radioguy8662Seemed to work when bailing out the too big to fail.
@@ScottsFinancialThoughts Well, I guess you're also living in the land of OZ! The entire federal budget for 2024 is $6.5 trillion. But if the Feds were to buy out just those companies that trade on the stock market they would need to come up with $52 trillion which is totally impossible! And even if they could, that would add on to our current national debt that is at a record $34 Trillion. Interest payments alone on that debt this year will exceed what we pay on national defense! Scott, your "financial thoughts" aren't very impressive.
@@radioguy8662 What you stated is true, but you obviously have not been paying attention to what’s going on. We just bailed out the banks not long ago. There are banks failing and being bought right now. We are trillions in debt but yet maintaining and growing 100s of bases around the world. Paying billions to arm Ukraine and Israel. If the market falters billions more will be pumped to prop it up. You are talking about paying back the debt????? Who is talking about that??? The life cycle of the dollar is coming to an end. If you haven’t noticed power is being sent east. Paying back the debt. This guy is funny. Wrong game my friend!
Wolff is right. Nothing but cope from Laffer.
Nope Wolff is wrong and lied repeatedly
@@josephs883 i do have proof and you are the one lying about real wages as is Wolff. See the St Louis Fed real compensation series as well as article by economist Scott Lincicome on the stagnant wage myth. This is a long running debunked myth that Scott backs up with multiple data sources.
@@ExPwner It seemed like a very good faith debate to me. The burden of proof is on you. What lies? Laffer was straight up wrong about real wages, but I don't accuse him of lying. It seems to me that you are the one acting in bad faith, and all can see it.
@@josephs883i just brought the proof but no, the one making the original claim about real wages was Wolff in the debate and now you with respect to Laffer. You have yet to respond to my sources and Wolff has no response to them either.
@@josephs883 clearly you are uneducated about basic economics
Why China's progress is fast is because it's directed primarily by a competent government. The country acts as a single company that directs everything depending on the primary needs of the population in contrary to a country with lots of private companies that can go in many directions.
but but but Capitalism is efficient and and China has Capitalism dooohhh. -Laffer
@@alrizo1115 you fool. China is an authoritarian state. My god.
Richard Wolff should try working in a factory
Excellent video David! Compelling arguments on both sides but I would go with Wolf’s vision of a new type of socialism with democracy in the workplace. When Laffer gets exasperated and overtalks Wolff towards the end of the video shows he was on the ropes and losing the “debate”Honestly this is one of the best videos I’ve seen on the subject!
It’s a terrible idea hence why coops do not dominate in a free market. They make lower profits and pay lower wages. Forcing the economy to be coops like Wolff wants wrecked the USSR and Venezuela.
@@surfbum8166 you want democracy in the work place. Go start your own fucking business where everyone gets a vote on everything. What a joke.
Meanwhile, the rest of us will run the businesses WE OWN the way we want to. You can leave if you don’t like it. Jesus.
This guy just called GWB a socialist OMG just on that alone he lost this argument.
Great balanced discussion by two very knowledgeable professionals
@@michaelyu6048 Wolff is a fool
The question isn't GDP growth vs real wage growth.
It's the liberty grade for any society.
Liberty / Freedom is the empatis behind all material progress / wealth growth.
Slaves don't create.
Freedom and Freemarket capitalism is the only capital input that truly matters!!
Each time when Laffer gets animated and wont let Wolff say another word on his thread it seems it is to try to derail Wolff to avoid that capitalism IS abandoning and/or reducing the reward for more and more workers (that have been its labor base). No matter what it may be doing for owners and investors what 'trickles down', as Laffers beloved Reagan liked to describe it, is excrement.
Laffer wants you to look at wall street benefits and keep your eyes fixed on that, as if not noticing a crowd taking up torches and pitchforks near the horizon would make that crowd dissolve.
Nonsense
@@ExPwner Nonsense is claiming to be against authority and for capitalism (ancap colors, no?) Virtually every business other than worker co-ops and equal partnerships larger than one person ends up constituting a private government in the life of the person(s) in an employee role.
@@ExPwner James Adams? ...Waffle Street?... Sell Out?...
@@sl-lz3dwemployers are nothing like governments 😂 you just made a clown of yourself
@@ExPwner Sure they are. Specifically they are modeled on dictatorships. You're the one wearing grease paint on your face.