As an American, who considers myself as conservationist who upland bird hunts, I have been confused on the issue with Red Grouse shooting in England- I found this very interesting and informative. The moorlands are beautiful, I hope you can retain the Grouse hunting traditions and continue to increase overall biodiversity.
Thanks hugely for this - as a Canadian, it's of interest to see where developed countries which are facing these issues, including dramatically increased incidences of wildfires that we are also facing here in North America, are going, and what we can learn. I really, really appreciate this video - one of the very best you've done that I've seen.
Refreshing to listen to an environmental scientist who wants to take emotion out of science and base decisions on fact and not on heavily skewed data and statistics designed to arrive at a pre-determined result to please politicians and environmental campaigners.
It was fascinating to hear, throughout the interview Jonny was in a state of shock at how objective the Gentleman Doctor was! Unfortunately facts are a hard sell...
Absolutely brilliant video . Its about time this sort of content is aired on mainstream TV to EDUCATE THE UNEDUCATED about our industry and its benefits to all wildlife and it habitats .well done to the NGO (I am proud to be a member) and well done to TGS for fronting and delivering such brilliant content
Stephen Mawle 8 seconds ago Great piece looking at the major issues. Well done. Ref Exclusivity of grouse shooting - At Coverhead we have for the last 8 years run courses designed to introduce new guns to the 'mystic' of grouse shooting. The course is run over two days. Day one involves a moorland visit and lecture looking at moorland ecology and management followed by a simulated grouse practise with instruction from our purpose built grouse practice range. Day 2 allows participants to put what they have learnt into practise with an affordable fixed price driven grouse day. Since developing these courses we have introduced over 200 new guns to Grouse shooting.
Wow John just wow as someone who grew up in the city you’ve put a very partial and balanced video out which wouldn’t look out of place on mainstream television
Well done. One criticism - you say the moors are managed just for an elite few; most of the people who work there, from the keepers to the beaters really enjoy their work there and would greatly miss it were it stopped and not just for financial reasons.
As a raptor biologist and falconer- I appreciate you taking this topic on - nice work. Speaking of grouse, you should experience the prairie grouse species of North America. Happy to help line you out.
Great piece looking at the major issues. Well done. Ref Exclusivity of grouse shooting - At Coverhead we have for the last 8 years run courses designed to introduce new guns to the 'mystic' of grouse shooting. The course is run over two days. Day one involves a moorland visit and lecture looking at moorland ecology and management followed by a simulated grouse practise with instruction from our purpose built grouse practice range. Day 2 allows participants to put what they have learnt into practise with an affordable fixed price driven grouse day. Since developing these courses we have introduced over 200 new guns to Grouse shooting.
Jonny, Sash and the TGS Outdoors family - just watched this again since its first release. Some of your finest work - the cinematography, photography, music as well as - of course - the balanced and rationale viewpoints of those in the grouse industry. Excellent documentary.
Brilliant programme Johnny, I wish more people could get to see it. Wonderfull and amazing that so few people are spending their lives working in a way that brings such massive benefits. Keep it up lads!!!!!!
Very high quality video, informative and a pleasure to watch. You should be proud of this one! As shooters, it is impossible to be completely neutral on the matter but this documentary is extremely well balanced.
really great balanced video, I like the fact that you didn't attack anyone with your comments, you weren't aggressive, you looked for scientific evidence. AND... most importantly... if you didn't know something, didn't feel you could make a comment, you said so. we in the shooting community may think we know everything about conservation... but until we have the scientific evidence from proper studies... we can only hope what we've been doing is the best option.
This was a fantastic watch! Got to say, before watching this I was of the opinion that the moors should be left for nature to claim them back and this facts based vid challenged my opinion! I've learnt a hell of a lot from this video. Bravo
Congratulations on making really watchable, reasoned and emotionally positive contribution to the debate over grouse shooting. Getting the wider picture across to a wider audience this way (and not just preaching to the choir) is vital if we are going to preserve the richness of managed uplands for future generations and go some way to heal the rift that those opposed to shooting seem intent on opening up between nature-lovers who don't shoot and nature-lovers who do. I know you can't cover everything in a half-hour film (and a half hour is the right length, I think), but I'd love to see you take this further in a future film. Perhaps get down into the heather and the bogs to reveal the diversity of the vegetation that makes up a moorland, get onto a well-managed moor in May and be deafened by the calls of waders, and descend through the lower slopes and their native shrub and woodland plantings to the valley bottoms and reveal how water management on the moors is improving water quality and reviving rivers, creating ecologically vibrant riverbanks and underwater habitats in places formerly scoured by flooding. Perhaps invite an ornithologist and an entomologist and a botanist and a hydrologist along to react, as non-shooters, to what they are seeing. You might ask the key question more bluntly too: if shooting income is choked off, are the opponents of shooting prepared to commit themselves to paying many hundreds of thousands of pounds, decade after decade, to maintain these rich habitats; and if they aren't prepared to put their money where their mouth is, how else do they propose to secure their future? Their answer, I expect, is the nebulous concept of "re-wilding", in which case it would be interesting to see how they address the evidence that previous attempts at re-wilding have led to the loss of jobs, the eviction of local people, rampant wildfires, mass starvation and plummeting biodiversity. Perhaps after a decades-long cataclysm of this sort nature would indeed find the balance they claim, but how much would be lost along the way, and where exactly would people fit in? After all, to be fully wild, human access would have to be almost exclusively virtual, except for servicing the webcams and surveillance drones. Looking forward to the next one, but for now, kudos to you, the NGO and all your interviewees.
As a beater on grouse in Gods country and beater on estates in Hampshire now for partridge and pheasant my admiration always went out to the keepers, even the old grumpy ones. Some of the best times of my 70 yr life have been on the shoot, being a stop more often now gives time for watchful awareness of where I am, G.O.D. The Great Outdoors, we are so blessed to still have people with heartfelt stewardship of This Sceptred Isle.
This is an excellent synopsis. It is interesting to hear wildfire described as a catastrophe. It is only a catastrophe for humans. If habitat wasn't so fragmented, such events would be important to regeneration of habitat on a larger scale. Like in so many places, the real problem is that there are just too many people.
I think the he number of people is perhaps sustainable, but only if we lived in a very different way. The UK pop has grown 20% in 100 or so years but housing has quadrupled. We simple use to much floor space.
Another comment if I may. Where I live in north central British Columbia, grouse hunting is quite different from that in the heather moors of Great Britain. It's the ruffed grouse we are after and it has a different life style and habitat requirement than the red grouse. As a good friend and frequent grouse hunting partner says, "It's not very bright, easy to hunt, easy to clean and tastes delicious. A bird born to be eaten."
An excellent piece. Great production quality. Good to hear level-headed, practical input from experts and folks who live with the moors, it shows that you can be passionate about a subject without being emotive. It may be considered niche but it would be good to see this on network TV. Perhaps a longer edit with more of the antis side included to demonstate the type of partially informed voice we're up against.
Wow!! Great story. Thanks for producing this. More non shooters need to see what a managed land really means and the benefits for all. Keep up the good work!
Close ur eyes and imagine what unmanaged land with unmanaged human interaction actually looks like...I suggest the issue as usual is confusion over the facts..cheers
Great Video guy's, If only more people, whether supporters or not would watch films like this, then maybe they would have a better understanding of the benefits of grouse moor management both financially for the local communties and scientifically for world.
An excellent, well balanced and beautifully filmed video. And you didn't call Chris Packham a .................I'd better not; my daughters will read this.
Amazing and inspiring video and u came to nidderdale 😮 what a shame I would have really liked to meet you 😅 but anyways welll done for this video I really enjoyed it 👍🏼
Fair, Concise, clear, informative. Awesome to have young a persons perspective on shooting as well. The world is changing and shooting does need to shift with it to survive. Very impressive filming and real scientific data based information. Most importantly, rewilding is a matter of perception, each individual person has their own idea of it as for much of conservation on the whole, really good that that was highlighted. There is no actual strict definition for rewilding. Hats off, best report ive seen on the topic
Thankyou John. The variety of opinion is a great thing, but not when that opinion doesn't take facts into account! The main thing i learnt from Martin is that if you follow rewilding to its natural conclusion it means renouncing most technology and healthcare!
Well done very interesting keep it up. It is rare that the passion of people for whom this is a vocation is represented and most specifically their care of the wider environment other than the grouse which is seen as elitist and an easy headline for the tabloid press. I have never shot a grouse or been on a grouse shoot other than to watch (I don’t have the means with two young children) however I ate my first one sat on my fathers knee when I was 8 and it is something I look forward to ever year. It is vital this is preserved in a caring and sustainable manner. As always tgs an accessible and entertaining piece of video.
Jonny, what a spectacular feature film. If only this could be shown via mainstream media to the masses! Age is big factor in regard to the stigma of game shooting, I'm a young man as are you but sadly most others in our generation are quick to jump on the 'Anti' bandwagon. Half of these 'Antis' have likely never spent more than a day in the British countryside and tend to gain their propaganda from social media and far left activists whom have a broader agenda. That leads onto the second biggest factor imo, yes the game shooting scene (particularly grouse shooting) is only really accessible via the elite and wealthy.. but how else to people expect the funds to be raised to manage such vast portions of countryside? Personally I feel like there's an underlying hatred there for the historic upper-class and these activists care more about abolishing a handful of wealthy elite than they do about saving our countryside. One can't exist without the other!
Well done John but I think it should be basc doing this kind of films to promote ourselves as nature loving as all hunters and shooters I know are. Thanks
Reducing wildfire fuel outside of bogs is best done by grazing - in this case browsing. It produces mosaics of high patchiness. As a professional in that case I am unsure wehter this could work here and which species to choose. Maybe Muskox and Red Deer (small dosis of course)?
Anti- hunters stand a chance of being shot here in the USA. A few years ago, some anti-hunters dressed as bears in New Jersey. The “idea” was that hunters wouldn’t be able to distinguish real bears, from real idiots. Needless to say, hunters were quite prepared to shot anything that looked like a bear, and the anti-hunters had a change of heart. I live in Pennsylvania, and deer are beyond overpopulated. It only takes one deer strike with your car, to turn an anti-hunter into a rabid deer slayer.
Very well put together piece on the systems that create an environment for the grouse, the filmography is extremely nicely done. I don’t live in the UK so am unaware of the undercurrent involving this topic of shooting grouse, I thought the woodsman gave perhaps the best balanced viewpoint, the environment is being well managed for at least a few species, and that without the public paying far more taxes there’s not a better practical alternative. Having seen some land returned to its “wild”state here it just becomes a weed infested mess and not the idealistic paradise proffered. There leaves a few questions somewhat open .... Is this on the whole a sport for the wealthy, I expect there will be exceptions but is this a majority reality? and just what is the expected cost per day per bird or however it’s priced? I’m assuming that these are all private properties? Here in Australia there are no rights that I’m aware of for the public to use private property other than varying river title rights ( which are somewhat hidden as it doesn’t suit the landowners ) so public usage is not an issue regardless of what the landowner does. What rights does the public have over private land? The moor landscape seems to go for miles and miles, how extensive are these areas, perhaps as a % of overall land and even proportional to areas. Finally sadly for hunters, there is now a proportion of the population ( majority) now removed from contact with a rural lifestyle where people killed their own food and understood the practical realities of life, and have adopted an ideological point of view that cannot become reality. But that may only be understood once it’s too late. Anyways I’ve enjoyed your videos, keep up the good work.... any chance you could do a video on parallel stocks vs sporting stock for sporting clays ( bit off topic I know)
To approach some of the questions we left open: Grouse shooting starts at £150 a day each for walked up day with an expectation of a bird or two each. It does top out at a lot of money - £180/brace on days of a few hundred brace - this adds up! It is accessible at just about any level, like cars or houses. A lot of the land has had 'right to roam' access put upon it, or has many rights of way across it. So they do at least have the right to go on it and impact it in some way. Its hard to get the exact figures on land coverage but grouse dedicated moorland could be around 3-5% of the land use. I will get to the stock video at some point, and try and do it justice.
Good stuff, well done. You want to do a thing, you take care of it - but in this age you must also make public that you take care of it. A little rough on the documentary skills (a sound byte from someone in support of "rewilding" and their logic, and a touch better interviewing), but looking forward to more content in this style as new issues inevitably crop up.
The Gun Shop Thanks the more videos on conservation etc shows the anti hunting community the work gamekeepers shoot mangers etc spend a lot of there time working on keeping the countryside vibrant 👍👍
Not a shooter but have run a lot of moorland mountainbike events with Landowners agreement, over several decades. I concur with the sentiments above, but we had a Keeper come down from Scotland. Sacked for killing raptors. We have everything we should have including Hen Harriers. There's a reason Kites are doing badly in Scotland...... As a river surveyor by far the most pristine and fecund stream I have seen is on a sheepless part of the Cheviot moors near Wooler, followed by the Eppynt Army Range locally. Drench is a killer.
Fantastic film Jon. Had my first taste of walked up grouse shooting in August. Wouldn't miss it for the world and will need to work on my fitness. Saw your clip on best game guns and the review on the MK38 trap. Bought a second hand one and it's fantastic to shoot. 750£.and have been busting clays Can't wait to try it on game. My Caesar Guerini invictus ascent is locked up
I know sweet fanny adam's about moorland management, nor best practise for bio diversity but I guess if it ain't broke don't fix and it seems thus far we have no empirical data to the contrary. Yet I am suspicious! I would like to see a moorland that is fire managed but left fallow so to speak for 10 years with a species count thereafter... My instinct suggests that the industry, instead of trying to provide grouse shooting for the masses should instead keep it a preserve of the rich. - Maybe even more so than it is now! I would be very happy to see grouse in restaurants at 200 quid a pop rather than 50 because it would imply a reduced economy of scale and remove the pressure from gamekeepers to preserve high grouse numbers at the expence of other species especially predators. I would be excluding myself as am not a member of the fine and dandy yet that's fine by me because the end game is more important than the one at the end of a barrel sometimes.
Thank you for a great film. Yet another great subject for discussion over a pint. Is there opportunities for folks to go to the moors to use a camera if hunting isn't initially their thing? In the gaps between hunts would this be possible for an additional source of revenue?
Grouse is an amazing bird and quite tasty I haven't hunted these fine birds in years nor bobwhite quail neighter. Pheasant is rare now where I live. But grouse needs a come back. / thanks for another great video Johnny
John and Jackie Tidmarsh - I have hunted for food since a young child, eaten every kind of fish and game in the British Isle, should this be considered immoral?
@@davideddy2672 I too have hunted since childhood had a shot gun at 14 , always eaten or sold what i hunted , my grandfather was a Gamekeeper, I have participated as a beater so I consider my self educated on the subject , I have seen and conversed with said shooters who I consider as HO HAR HENRIS AND YES SHOOTING KILLING SOMETHING FOR FUN IS IMMORAL. Grouse involved over millennia long before we shot them and will survive if left alone , as will all the other diverse wild life .
John and Jackie Tidmarsh - never would I dream of shooting for sport - or indeed cold cash, as you have evidently done your self. The most part of my interest has been conservation and preservation, yet I maintain my right to make a harvest and I consider it to be highly immoral to be told this is somehow wrong by any judgment. You claim grouse and other species would survive without our intervention - if that is your belief I must question as to what you have learnt through your experience or indeed, what you may have missed through your having watched this? I must ask once more - is my natural harvest to be considered immoral?
@@davideddy2672 Do you kill a living animal for fun or to survive grouse shooting is carried out for fun or self gratification if that is what you do it is immoral.
Hunters are the greatest advocate and supporter of these birds without the management of wildlife and the economic support the birds would cease to exist!
Country sports, field sports, bloodsports call it what you like. It is here to stay and is a part of human nature. Do not give in to weak people who know noting of the real world. Stand your ground together
@@colstoun4762 stop caring if they get offended. Your attitude is why those weak people will get what they want. Stand up for yourselves and stop being pc. This liberal lets all hug and talk about it attitude will eventually lead to a ban on all sport hunting in the uk
[From the USA] People need to see how food in grocery stores "markets" are farmed and slaughtered. Then they need to see how wild game is harvested. There's no conversation. The gun conversation is a completely different thing for you all than it is here... I also cannot even comprehend the caste thing you have there.
Interesting documentry. Most gamekeepers who manage these estates do a good job and actually benefit some wildlife. Shame theres a minority who lack any brains and destroy protected species
Burning is probably the "natural" way it was renewed before people prevented it. Every once in a while, a lightning strike would have burned big swathes of heather. Burning also puts nutrients back into the land, improving future growth.
Most heather moorland is not the climax ecosystem. Pretty much all of the land where it is found today was covered in forest before humans entered the British Isles To raise a good crop of heather the soil needs to be depleted in nutrients, to stop grass species swamping it and trees eventually recolonising. But never let fact get in the way of your narrative. And burning over blanket bog and peatlands is just obscene when one considers how important these are for carbon sequestration.
@@johnhowardmorgan No need to be salty John. I'm just contemplating what I learned. I don't live there, and have no stake in it being one way or another. We know that fire is now understood to be an essential part of most ecosystems, especially forest ones. However, I'm struck by you saying that heather needs nutrient poor soil, because burning would return nutrients back to the soil.
The soil will be temporarily deprived of any nutrient locked in the heather, which will mostly return on burning (some very volatile stuff like oxides of nitrogen might drift away, of course). Overall the soil is depleted because lack of deep rooting trees and shrubs. This means over the years, nutrients will reach the water table and be transported away.. Plants adapted to such nutrient-poor regimes can thrive.
If you want to know the truth talk to the professional this documentary purely shows this Peckham is just to obnoxious and does not listen to other people’s voices and takes in on bored he just dismiss it
I am only interested in the facts, no axe to grind. All the up to date scientific data shows that the hare is not a significant wildlife reservoir for ticks, it's a tiny percentage. The wildlife reservoir is deer but by far the most important reservoir is sheep. Why therefore do estate owners and gamekeepers still conduct an annual slaughter of thousands of hare? I would like an informed, honest answer please.
I may not be the right person to talk to about this, but i shall offer the best answer i can. On many grouse moors in areas where blue hares live, the management that benefits the grouse also benefits the hares. The population is therefore larger than on many unmanaged places. I once spoke to a man from near Inverness who is a keeper, and on his estate they have been taking the same bag of hares off every year for the last 100 years. This to me is very sustainable. Should they be shooting where there is a decline - of course not! Maintaining a healthy population of anything sometimes requires population management. The tick question i can only answer in so far as - if the hare population grows over capacity, the overall are population would suffer, and i presume that healthy hares carry less ticks than unhealthy hares. I would need to talk to people much wiser on the subject than I, and come back to you.
As an American, who considers myself as conservationist who upland bird hunts, I have been confused on the issue with Red Grouse shooting in England- I found this very interesting and informative. The moorlands are beautiful, I hope you can retain the Grouse hunting traditions and continue to increase overall biodiversity.
Thanks Joe, i hope for that too!
@@tgsoutdoors the gamekeepers kill everything that’s not a grouse,hawks eagles everything there cruel it’s disgusting
@@shaynebrewer6306 bem né k kya
Thanks hugely for this - as a Canadian, it's of interest to see where developed countries which are facing these issues, including dramatically increased incidences of wildfires that we are also facing here in North America, are going, and what we can learn. I really, really appreciate this video - one of the very best you've done that I've seen.
Refreshing to listen to an environmental scientist who wants to take emotion out of science and base decisions on fact and not on heavily skewed data and statistics designed to arrive at a pre-determined result to please politicians and environmental campaigners.
It was fascinating to hear, throughout the interview Jonny was in a state of shock at how objective the Gentleman Doctor was! Unfortunately facts are a hard sell...
Stunning film guys. Best I’ve ever seen on this topic. Bravo.
Thankyou very much Mr Doyle, really appreciate it.
Absolutely brilliant video . Its about time this sort of content is aired on mainstream TV to EDUCATE THE UNEDUCATED about our industry and its benefits to all wildlife and it habitats .well done to the NGO (I am proud to be a member) and well done to TGS for fronting and delivering such brilliant content
brilliant film lads ! very proud of you
DC
Thankyou Mr Carrie, that means a lot.
TBS Awesome video! As said
by MR D Carrie himself.
Stephen Mawle 8 seconds ago
Great piece looking at the major issues. Well done. Ref Exclusivity of grouse shooting - At Coverhead we have for the last 8 years run courses designed to introduce new guns to the 'mystic' of grouse shooting. The course is run over two days. Day one involves a moorland visit and lecture looking at moorland ecology and management followed by a simulated grouse practise with instruction from our purpose built grouse practice range. Day 2 allows participants to put what they have learnt into practise with an affordable fixed price driven grouse day. Since developing these courses we have introduced over 200 new guns to Grouse shooting.
Wow John just wow as someone who grew up in the city you’ve put a very partial and balanced video out which wouldn’t look out of place on mainstream television
Thankyou
as someone who doesn’t know a lot about the subject, I found it informative and balanced
Well done. One criticism - you say the moors are managed just for an elite few; most of the people who work there, from the keepers to the beaters really enjoy their work there and would greatly miss it were it stopped and not just for financial reasons.
You are right, we would love to do a video on 'shooting communities' in the future
As a raptor biologist and falconer- I appreciate you taking this topic on - nice work. Speaking of grouse, you should experience the prairie grouse species of North America. Happy to help line you out.
Sounds like a something we would love to try one day. Thankyou for your kind words
Great piece looking at the major issues. Well done. Ref Exclusivity of grouse shooting - At Coverhead we have for the last 8 years run courses designed to introduce new guns to the 'mystic' of grouse shooting. The course is run over two days. Day one involves a moorland visit and lecture looking at moorland ecology and management followed by a simulated grouse practise with instruction from our purpose built grouse practice range. Day 2 allows participants to put what they have learnt into practise with an affordable fixed price driven grouse day. Since developing these courses we have introduced over 200 new guns to Grouse shooting.
Jonny, Sash and the TGS Outdoors family - just watched this again since its first release. Some of your finest work - the cinematography, photography, music as well as - of course - the balanced and rationale viewpoints of those in the grouse industry. Excellent documentary.
Thankyou Mate. Looking forward to making our next one
Bravo- a well balanced report. You did not emphasise the lowland benefits of good moorland management, nor will I! Thank you.
Brilliant programme Johnny, I wish more people could get to see it. Wonderfull and amazing that so few people are spending their lives working in a way that brings such massive benefits. Keep it up lads!!!!!!
Brilliant work to everyone involved, gorgeous shots of the northern landscapes and the wildlife that lives there.
Thankyou Imogen, gad you enjoyed it.
The TGS tram should be really proud of this documentary. Better than TV quality, informative and balanced.
Thankyou
Very high quality video, informative and a pleasure to watch. You should be proud of this one! As shooters, it is impossible to be completely neutral on the matter but this documentary is extremely well balanced.
Thankyou Will, our pleasure. It is good to be introspective as an industry, and the hardest part of that is setting aside bias, we did try our best!
really great balanced video, I like the fact that you didn't attack anyone with your comments, you weren't aggressive, you looked for scientific evidence. AND... most importantly... if you didn't know something, didn't feel you could make a comment, you said so. we in the shooting community may think we know everything about conservation... but until we have the scientific evidence from proper studies... we can only hope what we've been doing is the best option.
More research is key to our future but as Prof. Marrs said, it takes time to gather meaningful evidence based science.
Ive been lucky enough to have meet Neil and Paul and they are true countrymen!! Really passionate out the land and the wildlife!! Hats off2 them
This was a fantastic watch! Got to say, before watching this I was of the opinion that the moors should be left for nature to claim them back and this facts based vid challenged my opinion! I've learnt a hell of a lot from this video. Bravo
Congratulations on making really watchable, reasoned and emotionally positive contribution to the debate over grouse shooting. Getting the wider picture across to a wider audience this way (and not just preaching to the choir) is vital if we are going to preserve the richness of managed uplands for future generations and go some way to heal the rift that those opposed to shooting seem intent on opening up between nature-lovers who don't shoot and nature-lovers who do.
I know you can't cover everything in a half-hour film (and a half hour is the right length, I think), but I'd love to see you take this further in a future film. Perhaps get down into the heather and the bogs to reveal the diversity of the vegetation that makes up a moorland, get onto a well-managed moor in May and be deafened by the calls of waders, and descend through the lower slopes and their native shrub and woodland plantings to the valley bottoms and reveal how water management on the moors is improving water quality and reviving rivers, creating ecologically vibrant riverbanks and underwater habitats in places formerly scoured by flooding. Perhaps invite an ornithologist and an entomologist and a botanist and a hydrologist along to react, as non-shooters, to what they are seeing. You might ask the key question more bluntly too: if shooting income is choked off, are the opponents of shooting prepared to commit themselves to paying many hundreds of thousands of pounds, decade after decade, to maintain these rich habitats; and if they aren't prepared to put their money where their mouth is, how else do they propose to secure their future?
Their answer, I expect, is the nebulous concept of "re-wilding", in which case it would be interesting to see how they address the evidence that previous attempts at re-wilding have led to the loss of jobs, the eviction of local people, rampant wildfires, mass starvation and plummeting biodiversity. Perhaps after a decades-long cataclysm of this sort nature would indeed find the balance they claim, but how much would be lost along the way, and where exactly would people fit in? After all, to be fully wild, human access would have to be almost exclusively virtual, except for servicing the webcams and surveillance drones.
Looking forward to the next one, but for now, kudos to you, the NGO and all your interviewees.
You pose some brilliant ideas for future content. Thankyou very much.
As a beater on grouse in Gods country and beater on estates in Hampshire now for partridge and pheasant my admiration always went out to the keepers, even the old grumpy ones. Some of the best times of my 70 yr life have been on the shoot, being a stop more often now gives time for watchful awareness of where I am, G.O.D. The Great Outdoors, we are so blessed to still have people with heartfelt stewardship of This Sceptred Isle.
This is an excellent synopsis. It is interesting to hear wildfire described as a catastrophe. It is only a catastrophe for humans. If habitat wasn't so fragmented, such events would be important to regeneration of habitat on a larger scale. Like in so many places, the real problem is that there are just too many people.
I think the he number of people is perhaps sustainable, but only if we lived in a very different way. The UK pop has grown 20% in 100 or so years but housing has quadrupled. We simple use to much floor space.
Another comment if I may. Where I live in north central British Columbia, grouse hunting is quite different from that in the heather moors of Great Britain. It's the ruffed grouse we are after and it has a different life style and habitat requirement than the red grouse. As a good friend and frequent grouse hunting partner says, "It's not very bright, easy to hunt, easy to clean and tastes delicious. A bird born to be eaten."
An excellent piece. Great production quality. Good to hear level-headed, practical input from experts and folks who live with the moors, it shows that you can be passionate about a subject without being emotive. It may be considered niche but it would be good to see this on network TV. Perhaps a longer edit with more of the antis side included to demonstate the type of partially informed voice we're up against.
Neil seems like a lovely man. He seemed very emotional about it.
Wow!! Great story. Thanks for producing this. More non shooters need to see what a managed land really means and the benefits for all.
Keep up the good work!
Thankyou and our pleasure
Beautifully filmed, well researched and really high quality interviewing. Fantastic video!
Marvellous documentary, liked the journey style narrative and visually interesting. Balanced approach to a challenging subject
A brilliant video again guys, you’ve edited this brilliantly, displaying a well balanced and educational documentary. Keep up the great work 👍🏻
Thankyou very much
Nice work, well done on the interaction convo on re-wilding...this is where the most confusion lays imo.
Its clearly not a viable option for the future of the uplands!
Close ur eyes and imagine what unmanaged land with unmanaged human interaction actually looks like...I suggest the issue as usual is confusion over the facts..cheers
Rick Pound would love for you to expand on that, if you would like
Excellent, educational, informative. Thank you.
I have met Neil at Pagham Farm shoot on the Isle of Wight last year, what a surprise to see him on this film!
Absolute Brilliant Man!
Great Video guy's, If only more people, whether supporters or not would watch films like this, then maybe they would have a better understanding of the benefits of grouse moor management both financially for the local communties and scientifically for world.
Brilliant film, probably the best you have done. Would love to see more of this style. Well done 👍
An excellent, well balanced and beautifully filmed video. And you didn't call Chris Packham a .................I'd better not; my daughters will read this.
Amazing and inspiring video and u came to nidderdale 😮 what a shame I would have really liked to meet you 😅 but anyways welll done for this video I really enjoyed it 👍🏼
Im sure we will be back sometime, thankyou for your kind comments
Brilliant production... From Australia, thank you.
Fair, Concise, clear, informative. Awesome to have young a persons perspective on shooting as well. The world is changing and shooting does need to shift with it to survive. Very impressive filming and real scientific data based information. Most importantly, rewilding is a matter of perception, each individual person has their own idea of it as for much of conservation on the whole, really good that that was highlighted. There is no actual strict definition for rewilding.
Hats off, best report ive seen on the topic
Thankyou John. The variety of opinion is a great thing, but not when that opinion doesn't take facts into account! The main thing i learnt from Martin is that if you follow rewilding to its natural conclusion it means renouncing most technology and healthcare!
Great video. Thanks for posting.
Excellent video. Thank you.
Really great video if only it could be on tv nice to hear it from a shooters point of view
Well done very interesting keep it up. It is rare that the passion of people for whom this is a vocation is represented and most specifically their care of the wider environment other than the grouse which is seen as elitist and an easy headline for the tabloid press. I have never shot a grouse or been on a grouse shoot other than to watch (I don’t have the means with two young children) however I ate my first one sat on my fathers knee when I was 8 and it is something I look forward to ever year. It is vital this is preserved in a caring and sustainable manner. As always tgs an accessible and entertaining piece of video.
Great video guys. Very well put together.
Thankyou, glad you liked it!
Absolutely fantastic video, content and aesthetically. Congratulations.
Cheers James
Jonny, what a spectacular feature film. If only this could be shown via mainstream media to the masses! Age is big factor in regard to the stigma of game shooting, I'm a young man as are you but sadly most others in our generation are quick to jump on the 'Anti' bandwagon. Half of these 'Antis' have likely never spent more than a day in the British countryside and tend to gain their propaganda from social media and far left activists whom have a broader agenda. That leads onto the second biggest factor imo, yes the game shooting scene (particularly grouse shooting) is only really accessible via the elite and wealthy.. but how else to people expect the funds to be raised to manage such vast portions of countryside? Personally I feel like there's an underlying hatred there for the historic upper-class and these activists care more about abolishing a handful of wealthy elite than they do about saving our countryside. One can't exist without the other!
That was a pleasure to watch and listening to folks that know. the single minded people could learn a lot from that and the sense which was spoken
Amazing really enjoyed watching that.
Come to Australia, we can tell you all you need to know about mismanaged bush resources and wild fires consequences.
Great video. Really very interesting and educational.
Very well done .
Thankyou
Well done John but I think it should be basc doing this kind of films to promote ourselves as nature loving as all hunters and shooters I know are. Thanks
We are very grateful to the NGO for their help with this one, but as you say, the big organisations should be pumping out content!
Excellent film.Well done lads
Well made, informative and a welcome challenge to the uninformed lies that the likes of wild Justice perpetuate.
Thankyou!
Have to admit I knew you would do a great job but this is amazing! Brilliant Documentary guys and well done to all involved!
Great stuff, well-made! Deserves more views. Do you have a twitter account? Couldn't find you there.
We do, but i'm afraid we are not very active on it!
I'm taking my 10 year old son out grouse shooting next weekend!
Reducing wildfire fuel outside of bogs is best done by grazing - in this case browsing. It produces mosaics of high patchiness.
As a professional in that case I am unsure wehter this could work here and which species to choose. Maybe Muskox and Red Deer (small dosis of course)?
Great vid. Should be on mainstream tv channel
Well document mini-documentary and beautifully shot and edited. nice work!
Thanks, grate presentation
Great video
Anti- hunters stand a chance of being shot here in the USA. A few years ago, some anti-hunters dressed as bears in New Jersey. The “idea” was that hunters wouldn’t be able to distinguish real bears, from real idiots. Needless to say, hunters were quite prepared to shot anything that looked like a bear, and the anti-hunters had a change of heart. I live in Pennsylvania, and deer are beyond overpopulated. It only takes one deer strike with your car, to turn an anti-hunter into a rabid deer slayer.
Top job! Now get it on National TV!
Got any contacts?
Excellent film.
Neil the Gamekeepers emotion said it all to me period
Woodsman243 yeah just like they kill BOP and don’t even blink an eye get a grip
I’ve never seen a keeper cry when they kill BOP😭😭😭😢😭😥🥵😓😪
I think it is you who are blinkered - there may be some bad apples, but please do not tar Neil or many many other brilliant keepers with this brush!
Very well put together piece on the systems that create an environment for the grouse, the filmography is extremely nicely done.
I don’t live in the UK so am unaware of the undercurrent involving this topic of shooting grouse, I thought the woodsman gave perhaps the best balanced viewpoint, the environment is being well managed for at least a few species, and that without the public paying far more taxes there’s not a better practical alternative. Having seen some land returned to its “wild”state here it just becomes a weed infested mess and not the idealistic paradise proffered.
There leaves a few questions somewhat open ....
Is this on the whole a sport for the wealthy, I expect there will be exceptions but is this a majority reality? and just what is the expected cost per day per bird or however it’s priced?
I’m assuming that these are all private properties? Here in Australia there are no rights that I’m aware of for the public to use private property other than varying river title rights ( which are somewhat hidden as it doesn’t suit the landowners ) so public usage is not an issue regardless of what the landowner does. What rights does the public have over private land?
The moor landscape seems to go for miles and miles, how extensive are these areas, perhaps as a % of overall land and even proportional to areas.
Finally sadly for hunters, there is now a proportion of the population ( majority) now removed from contact with a rural lifestyle where people killed their own food and understood the practical realities of life, and have adopted an ideological point of view that cannot become reality. But that may only be understood once it’s too late.
Anyways I’ve enjoyed your videos, keep up the good work.... any chance you could do a video on parallel stocks vs sporting stock for sporting clays ( bit off topic I know)
To approach some of the questions we left open:
Grouse shooting starts at £150 a day each for walked up day with an expectation of a bird or two each. It does top out at a lot of money - £180/brace on days of a few hundred brace - this adds up! It is accessible at just about any level, like cars or houses.
A lot of the land has had 'right to roam' access put upon it, or has many rights of way across it. So they do at least have the right to go on it and impact it in some way.
Its hard to get the exact figures on land coverage but grouse dedicated moorland could be around 3-5% of the land use.
I will get to the stock video at some point, and try and do it justice.
Great film. Well done.
Thankyou
Good stuff, well done. You want to do a thing, you take care of it - but in this age you must also make public that you take care of it.
A little rough on the documentary skills (a sound byte from someone in support of "rewilding" and their logic, and a touch better interviewing), but looking forward to more content in this style as new issues inevitably crop up.
Very professional!
Nice film - a shame that it glossed over raptor persecution on grouse moors.
Interesting piece in the latest BASC magazine regarding Ember project findings being unreliable. Is this the piece your LU professor is referring to?
I believe so.
great video well done
Excellent video.
Very informative.
Very well done
our pleasure
Outstanding production.
Brilliant video we need more videos like this with the antis war on field sports well done
We have a few more planned, just working on getting them funded!
The Gun Shop Thanks the more videos on conservation etc shows the anti hunting community the work gamekeepers shoot mangers etc spend a lot of there time working on keeping the countryside vibrant 👍👍
Good stuff. Well done
Thankyou Karl
Not a shooter but have run a lot of moorland mountainbike events with Landowners agreement, over several decades. I concur with the sentiments above, but we had a Keeper come down from Scotland. Sacked for killing raptors. We have everything we should have including Hen Harriers. There's a reason Kites are doing badly in Scotland......
As a river surveyor by far the most pristine and fecund stream I have seen is on a sheepless part of the Cheviot moors near Wooler, followed by the Eppynt Army Range locally. Drench is a killer.
Fantastic film Jon. Had my first taste of walked up grouse shooting in August. Wouldn't miss it for the world and will need to work on my fitness. Saw your clip on best game guns and the review on the MK38 trap.
Bought a second hand one and it's fantastic to shoot. 750£.and have been busting clays Can't wait to try it on game. My Caesar Guerini invictus ascent is locked up
Excellent video thanks
Very informative would be nice if the Mainstream Media would give this the proper air time
Wouldn’t that be a treat! Building a reasonable image for ourselves is the first step to getting there
I know sweet fanny adam's about moorland management, nor best practise for bio diversity but I guess if it ain't broke don't fix and it seems thus far we have no empirical data to the contrary. Yet I am suspicious! I would like to see a moorland that is fire managed but left fallow so to speak for 10 years with a species count thereafter... My instinct suggests that the industry, instead of trying to provide grouse shooting for the masses should instead keep it a preserve of the rich. - Maybe even more so than it is now! I would be very happy to see grouse in restaurants at 200 quid a pop rather than 50 because it would imply a reduced economy of scale and remove the pressure from gamekeepers to preserve high grouse numbers at the expence of other species especially predators. I would be excluding myself as am not a member of the fine and dandy yet that's fine by me because the end game is more important than the one at the end of a barrel sometimes.
Thank you for a great film. Yet another great subject for discussion over a pint. Is there opportunities for folks to go to the moors to use a camera if hunting isn't initially their thing? In the gaps between hunts would this be possible for an additional source of revenue?
Ian at Bolton does just this, Curlew Safaris, taking groups to see the awesome wildlife!
Supra!!!!
Grouse is an amazing bird and quite tasty I haven't hunted these fine birds in years nor bobwhite quail
neighter. Pheasant is rare now where I live. But grouse needs a come back. / thanks for another great video Johnny
Is killing something for fun immoral because at the end of the day this all it is.
John and Jackie Tidmarsh - I have hunted for food since a young child, eaten every kind of fish and game in the British Isle, should this be considered immoral?
@@davideddy2672 I too have hunted since childhood had a shot gun at 14 , always eaten or sold what i hunted , my grandfather was a Gamekeeper, I have participated as a beater so I consider my self educated on the subject , I have seen and conversed with said shooters who I consider as HO HAR HENRIS AND YES SHOOTING KILLING SOMETHING FOR FUN IS IMMORAL. Grouse involved over millennia long before we shot them and will survive if left alone , as will all the other diverse wild life .
John and Jackie Tidmarsh - never would I dream of shooting for sport - or indeed cold cash, as you have evidently done your self.
The most part of my interest has been conservation and preservation, yet I maintain my right to make a harvest and I consider it to be highly immoral to be told this is somehow wrong by any judgment. You claim grouse and other species would survive without our intervention - if that is your belief I must question as to what you have learnt through your experience or indeed, what you may have missed through your having watched this? I must ask once more - is my natural harvest to be considered immoral?
@@davideddy2672 Do you kill a living animal for fun or to survive grouse shooting is carried out for fun or self gratification if that is what you do it is immoral.
Hunters are the greatest advocate and supporter of these birds without the management of wildlife and the economic support the birds would cease to exist!
Masterfull!
Thankyou Nick.
GREAT Job
Thankyou
Country sports, field sports, bloodsports call it what you like. It is here to stay and is a part of human nature. Do not give in to weak people who know noting of the real world. Stand your ground together
Glenn Mcloughlin lets not call them weak or suggest they know nothing! We just create more issues and confrontation that way.
@@colstoun4762 stop caring if they get offended. Your attitude is why those weak people will get what they want. Stand up for yourselves and stop being pc. This liberal lets all hug and talk about it attitude will eventually lead to a ban on all sport hunting in the uk
Hi Jonny. A fascinating film on conservation. Extremely informative. Once again another top video.
Well done.
Bryan Pritchard (instagram) 👍
[From the USA] People need to see how food in grocery stores "markets" are farmed and slaughtered. Then they need to see how wild game is harvested. There's no conversation. The gun conversation is a completely different thing for you all than it is here... I also cannot even comprehend the caste thing you have there.
Caste thing?
Interesting documentry. Most gamekeepers who manage these estates do a good job and actually benefit some wildlife. Shame theres a minority who lack any brains and destroy protected species
Agreed, it is hard in these small community to whistle blow on bad practice, and that is part of the problem.
I think you are seriously delusional or misinformed if you think it is a minority of gamekeepers that destroy protected species.
Burning is probably the "natural" way it was renewed before people prevented it.
Every once in a while, a lightning strike would have burned big swathes of heather.
Burning also puts nutrients back into the land, improving future growth.
Most heather moorland is not the climax ecosystem. Pretty much all of the land where it is found today was covered in forest before humans entered the British Isles To raise a good crop of heather the soil needs to be depleted in nutrients, to stop grass species swamping it and trees eventually recolonising. But never let fact get in the way of your narrative.
And burning over blanket bog and peatlands is just obscene when one considers how important these are for carbon sequestration.
@@johnhowardmorgan No need to be salty John. I'm just contemplating what I learned. I don't live there, and have no stake in it being one way or another.
We know that fire is now understood to be an essential part of most ecosystems, especially forest ones.
However, I'm struck by you saying that heather needs nutrient poor soil, because burning would return nutrients back to the soil.
The soil will be temporarily deprived of any nutrient locked in the heather, which will mostly return on burning (some very volatile stuff like oxides of nitrogen might drift away, of course). Overall the soil is depleted because lack of deep rooting trees and shrubs. This means over the years, nutrients will reach the water table and be transported away.. Plants adapted to such nutrient-poor regimes can thrive.
If you want to know the truth talk to the professional this documentary purely shows this
Peckham is just to obnoxious and does not listen to other people’s voices and takes in on bored he just dismiss it
I am only interested in the facts, no axe to grind. All the up to date scientific data shows that the hare is not a significant wildlife reservoir for ticks, it's a tiny percentage. The wildlife reservoir is deer but by far the most important reservoir is sheep. Why therefore do estate owners and gamekeepers still conduct an annual slaughter of thousands of hare? I would like an informed, honest answer please.
I may not be the right person to talk to about this, but i shall offer the best answer i can.
On many grouse moors in areas where blue hares live, the management that benefits the grouse also benefits the hares. The population is therefore larger than on many unmanaged places. I once spoke to a man from near Inverness who is a keeper, and on his estate they have been taking the same bag of hares off every year for the last 100 years. This to me is very sustainable. Should they be shooting where there is a decline - of course not!
Maintaining a healthy population of anything sometimes requires population management.
The tick question i can only answer in so far as - if the hare population grows over capacity, the overall are population would suffer, and i presume that healthy hares carry less ticks than unhealthy hares. I would need to talk to people much wiser on the subject than I, and come back to you.
Coyotes of the sky.
Does the law against shooting wood pigeon not apply to grouse , any one going to answer
Grouse are a game bird and as such are under a very different set of laws to Wood Pigeon
The Gun Shop but why it’s still a living creature I thought this is what Chris packham was all about
Ps I don’t shoot anything