After you detect the Kirov by your ESM, you should retrieve all the sensors and dive 200 ft maintain speed 6 kts, then fire 2 or 3 torpedo to sink that ship. Dont remain at periscope depth for more than 5 minutes (to avoid sonar detection). One more fact, Tomahawak Land Attack Missile (TLAM) is not to used against surface ships, it is used to destroy land sites i.e Radar Site.
Thanks, that's good to know. I tried so many times to hit a TLAM on a moving surface target but it never even got close to it. Even when my TLAMs are flying low. First of all, the enemy boats always successfully blow them up with their deck machine guns and second of all, my TLAMs would always land far away from my targets. Is there a way to lock a target with a TLAM? It's funny because in the 1996 Tom Clancy's SSN novel, the Captain Mackey is often successfully destroying enemy ships with TLAMS. Most of the time he's using his wire-guided MK48 ADCAPs and destroy all his targets even after cutting the wire almost right after launching them.
Most of the surface ships are equipped with the anti-missile defense such as Surface to Air Missile (SAM), Point Defense Missile System (PDMS), Medium Calibre Gun (MCG), Close Range Gun and Closed-In Weapon System (CIWS). With all of these 'layered defense', it is wise to fire more than 4 missiles at one time, with each of them must arrive at the same time to the target.. This method is known as Simultaneous Time On Target (STOT). I think it should be TASM (Tomahawk Anti-Ship Missile) not the TLAM to destroy enemy ships.
Kameel Kamil You know what Kameel, I think it would be awesome if someone would make a well detailed tutorial on how to make an accurate TMA. I think its the hardest and most complex part of that simulator.
Download the VMware workstation and create a Windows XP virtual machine with low specs (one processor and 2Gb memory is enough), run perfectly in the virtual machine, even with the voice command
1st impression... an exploding torpedo resulting in an intact submarine??? Made me remember the first Need for Speed, with intact crashed cars... Controls are identical to that old 688 Attack Sub, from the 90s... Is it a joke or just a ripoff?
Jane's 688i Hunter Killer simulation redo. At the time, that was the very best and most realistic MODERN submarine simulation on the market. Along with F-15 Strike Eagle by Jane's I spent DAYS running sims. Total immersion, available AI help or run them completely yourself, track, plot and kill enemies. Jane's 688i is available on Steam as a package with the original Fleet Command. Sonalysts was an integral part of the programmjing and marketing of both 688i and F-15. I'm still waiting for some BRAVE programmers to construct a new, MODERN submarine AND fighter simulation.
Playing through Cold Waters right now. I like it so far. It condenses some of the detail in Dangerous Waters and has some simplifications, but the tactics are the same and the enemy is just as punishing. Dangerous Waters still plays great many years later, as does Silent Hunter 4 Gold with the German boats and that sweet late war prototype.
Jane's 688i had one thing that this one and all its successors didn't have... A Ships Head Marker (SHM) on the Sonar that wasn't 180 degrees out! (In the above game you are doing approx. 270-280 heading, but your shm is showing a little over 90 degrees - right in the sonar's baffles. Because of this bug I just can't play the later games. I'm so surprised no one has ever mentioned it. If you have 688 still knocking around take a look to see what I mean...
Well. The result was never in doubt. Pottering about at periscope depth, merrily springing away with sonar and cavitation? Are you sure this captain wasn't a KGB spy? The only surprise here is how long he lasted! Maybe the Russians were laughing so hard the tears got in the way.
Can't understand why the maker pulled the plug on this. It was a great game, albeit it hated some sound card drivers. By the time I moved to 8.1 it was unplayable. OK so it's a niche game but that didn't stop it being great.
Download the VMware workstation and create a Windows XP virtual machine with low specs (one processor and 2Gb memory is enough), run perfectly in the virtual machine, even with the voice command and network in MP
Grunge LovR Yes if the XP system run the old DOS games, it works smooth. I used with Jane's FLEET COMMAND and others. I even installed Tunngle and Hamashi to run LAN style the old games
Juan Ortiz Do you mean that you've installed Windows XP on your virtual machine with a program called VMware? I never heard about this program before but I'll check it right now. That sounds great cuz I still have some good old Dos games that I can't run. Thanks a lot for this info. By the way, it's also possible to play tones of those good old games directly in our Internet browsers with this websites: archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games There are many games included and there are other websites like this.
Yeah the VMware is a software that reserve a physical space of you harddrive and run any operating system in your current machine (any Linux, Windows, Servers, etc), and dont need to uninstall what you have right now, in particular the workstation version is for NON server computers (like any game PC at home), managing your current hardware (network, USBs, DVDs, CPU and memory) as you wish in the virtual PC (you can use the microsoft Hyper-V either, but I prefer Vmware) www.vmware.com/products/workstation.html After install the vmware, you can create a virtual machine (or many), the wizard will ask you how much memory you will use, how many CPUs and cores, if you want your network card shared with the physical PC, sound card, how much HDD space you want in this new machine, etc. (You need to have a CD or an ISO image with windows XP latest version). Then in the wizard you say what operating system will you install, if you have in the physical CD/DVD drive, or in a USB, or an ISO image, and then VMware creates the virtual machine and start running the Windows XP installation, like another PC inside your own PC! it's GREAT! My advice, for Windows XP and old games, use only one processor with two cores max, 2GB memory, and about 60GB HDD space.
Everyone point and laugh at the guy playing the submarine sim who knows absolutely nothing about sonar lol. (MUCH better to give away your position with active pings and radar lmao)
Seriously, WTF with the graphics? Its as though Sonalyst has kept the same graphics designer going as far back as Janes F15....lame graphics...lame and I mean lame! OH, and their latest game/sim....totally absent of graphics which proves my point. They can't afford a top shelf graphics simulator. And you uploaded a game created for 4:3 ratios and you stretched the graphics! Confirms my point yet again.
As an old professional salt AND successfull 688(i) Hunter-Killer player for many years I can confirm that this guy knows nothing about submarine warfare: Once he UNSUCCESSFULLY fires twice a grand total of 5 missiles plus two (2) ACTIVE sonar impulses PLUS several radar impulses, he should see to it to get away, at least under the next thermal layer. From a first beginning he should have taken ONLY series of (passive) ESM bearings from the Kirov until he obtains an idea for a firing solution (bearing, distance, course, speed) of the same. Then launch two (2) ADCAP fishes. That should do the job!
Reminds me a bit of Red Storm Rising, which was on Windows 95 (I believe), i.e. back when dinosaurs roamed the earth. The active ping plus the radar should have should have given the Kirov a pretty good idea of where you are and what you are, if the crew is on the ball. You don't really want that to happen. . . Assuming radar/periscope about 9 ft above the surface and visible Kirov superstructure about 100 ft above the surface, detection range under ideal conditions is no farther than about 15 nm. Generally - don't radiate (active sonar or radar) and don't stick anything above the surface.
Old_Guard Safer than what I do. Hang at periscope depth with the ESM up. It a helo is close, I go to sailing depth and shoot it down with the ManPADS and dive, cackling all the way.
And again, you made every mistake possible. Hat off to do it once so badly, but now I bow deeply to make every possible mistake you can make in two submarine games in succession, haha.
I have this and I hated it. Modern warfare as modelled here is all distant and impersonal. There were some aspects I liked but overall I thought it was bad. Great programming etc just crap in terms of decent immersive gameplay. Something the Silent Hunter series got together quite well eventually.
He is talking about simulation, of course the graphics are of the early 2000s and suck right now in 2017, but no other modern sub sim have brought the level of simulation that this one, including sonars, themal layers, etc. And with the Red Alert Mod is terrific.
What the hell? It's 688i. They didn't even re-skin it. This game is 18 years old if it is a day. It was developed for Windows 98! Even the sounds are exactly the same.
Would like to get a game where one could play a boomer capt. He goes rouge and threatens to launch his nukes and all the subs from all countries tries to find me before i can.
Are any of the "Janes" simulations available? I used to have them all. Last one I bought was Desperate Waters. Spent countless hours in 688I and Longbow. Where have they gone? Does anyone have these that will run on today's systems? Is there anything that comes close, today?
Obviously you never played Sub Command. Towed array was a feature in that game, wasn't just a sensor either it was a physical deployment that could get tangled in the propeller or in shallow waters drag along the seafloor causing interference in the sensor data.. came out in 2001.
@@Twizted86 Well alright then. That's two games. Considering the amount of sub Sims out there, I'm not surprised I missed one. Any others or just those two? I'll get Sun Command and check it out. I was in the Navy in 01 so that's probably why I missed that one. Wasn't home much.
You can't walk around in the sub, and when hit with a torpedo, it lights on fire, and starts smoking, and sinks without so much as a dent? Fire?? Smoking??? Underwater?!?!
There's no smoke or fire except the flash from the explosion itself. Where did you see smoke? And you couldn't walk around the sub in Silent Hunter 3 either, which was made roughly the same time.
and this is what you call the best submarine game on PC?.......there is subgames way better than this on the market. Silent hunter series are way the best (so far). and for modern submarines there is a "old" game,.." Silent Steel" (very different gamestyle) but unforunally the last OP system it works on is Windows XP. (originally it was written for Win 95).
Well, maybe you are right.....a sim is maybe to "stretch the consept a litte" in the case of Silent Steel, don't know what to call a game as that (I wrote that the game has a very diffent gamestyle......very different)
Actually, released in 2005. But they used the engine from their earlier games, which dates back to 1997. It was improved significantly, but if you want to see just how far behind the curve it was, visually, go look at footage of Silent Hunter 3, which released the same year.
Ehhhh...."BEST simulator...."....on graphic it really sucks ;) Looking at water and explosions I got a reminder of "before 2000-times"....the rest looks nice.... tactics aspect is a good one....optional settings seem nice....but it needs a hell of a skill it seems to even kill a single freighter....nothing for mwe guy....try to convince others :) My rate would be 60/100 on THAT sight...good for nerds....all else should steer clear of that wreck ;)
I believe that the OP designed this for brevity. If he really wanted to sink the Kirov he would've used the time compression option to do a AI assisted TMA then launched a spread of 4 torpedoes. Like I said in my previous post, if you truly want to spend the time on this, use Steam. It runs fine on Win10 and Linux. I add that Fleet Command comes with it and FC was a nice sim also. Both sims have THICK manuals available on-line. You can buy the manuals on Amazon if you can find them. Expensive.
its good to know it runs fine on steam. The trouble with older sims not working on W8.0 or W10 is that any add ons DONT work. If you bought commercial add-ons for simulators you will need to keep your old PC and the operating system, which is basically Windows XP. Even Vista is messing up dlls. needed to run the simulator properly. And, dare I say it, with some sims you need W98 or ME. That is tantamount to torture! But good cheap XP laptops with Nvidia or ATI graphics are now very cheap and the solution.
such a great demonstartion of submarine warfare and naval tactics, ahhh!
After you detect the Kirov by your ESM, you should retrieve all the sensors and dive 200 ft maintain speed 6 kts, then fire 2 or 3 torpedo to sink that ship. Dont remain at periscope depth for more than 5 minutes (to avoid sonar detection). One more fact, Tomahawak Land Attack Missile (TLAM) is not to used against surface ships, it is used to destroy land sites i.e Radar Site.
Thanks, that's good to know. I tried so many times to hit a TLAM on a moving surface target but it never even got close to it. Even when my TLAMs are flying low. First of all, the enemy boats always successfully blow them up with their deck machine guns and second of all, my TLAMs would always land far away from my targets. Is there a way to lock a target with a TLAM? It's funny because in the 1996 Tom Clancy's SSN novel, the Captain Mackey is often successfully destroying enemy ships with TLAMS. Most of the time he's using his wire-guided MK48 ADCAPs and destroy all his targets even after cutting the wire almost right after launching them.
In fact the best against ships is the RGM/UGM-109B Tomahawk Anti Ship Missile (TASM) - active radar homing anti-ship missile variant.
Most of the surface ships are equipped with the anti-missile defense such as Surface to Air Missile (SAM), Point Defense Missile System (PDMS), Medium Calibre Gun (MCG), Close Range Gun and Closed-In Weapon System (CIWS). With all of these 'layered defense', it is wise to fire more than 4 missiles at one time, with each of them must arrive at the same time to the target.. This method is known as Simultaneous Time On Target (STOT). I think it should be TASM (Tomahawk Anti-Ship Missile) not the TLAM to destroy enemy ships.
Thanks a lot Kameel, you answered my question. That's great to know. I appreciate it!
Kameel Kamil You know what Kameel, I think it would be awesome if someone would make a well detailed tutorial on how to make an accurate TMA. I think its the hardest and most complex part of that simulator.
Last time I tried to install it on steam, it didn't work. Loved this game and his predecessors.
Download the VMware workstation and create a Windows XP virtual machine with low specs (one processor and 2Gb memory is enough), run perfectly in the virtual machine, even with the voice command
I would love a Silent Hunter 5 but with nuclear submarines...
This guy is really a Self Killer Submariner. Crewmembers shall do better put him into a torpedo tube and throw away ASAP!
Is this a video of 1997 with a typo in the title?
Dude, you did not apply the patch 1.04. Go ahead and try it.
Upgraded 688 is all
Dangerous Waters doesn't work for me on Win10. It crashes every time I try to run it, on every Win10 install I have tried it on (lots & lots).
You have to change the color to 16-bit in your video settings.
Looks like commodore 64
1st impression... an exploding torpedo resulting in an intact submarine??? Made me remember the first Need for Speed, with intact crashed cars...
Controls are identical to that old 688 Attack Sub, from the 90s...
Is it a joke or just a ripoff?
its not a ripoff its just from the same company and it lets you play as not just subs go look at the game its actually really good (in my opinion)
Really want to pay this game but its literally to old for my computer to run
I was thinking about playing some old games too. Maybe a virtual machine could work.
Graphics lacking big time
Jane's 688i Hunter Killer simulation redo. At the time, that was the very best and most realistic MODERN submarine simulation on the market. Along with F-15 Strike Eagle by Jane's I spent DAYS running sims. Total immersion, available AI help or run them completely yourself, track, plot and kill enemies. Jane's 688i is available on Steam as a package with the original Fleet Command. Sonalysts was an integral part of the programmjing and marketing of both 688i and F-15. I'm still waiting for some BRAVE programmers to construct a new, MODERN submarine AND fighter simulation.
well, at least for the fighter simulation there is an adequate substitute. try "DCS World"
Played 688i for countless hours during 90's. Nostalgia...
Truth there.
Cold waters is good one
Command: Silent Service, Cold Waters, BMS 4.33 and DCS 2.5 is all you need. It fulfills all my military sim requirements.
oh god the original 688(I) model, my eyes they hurt lol
Playing through Cold Waters right now. I like it so far. It condenses some of the detail in Dangerous Waters and has some simplifications, but the tactics are the same and the enemy is just as punishing. Dangerous Waters still plays great many years later, as does Silent Hunter 4 Gold with the German boats and that sweet late war prototype.
Yeah, kinda hate that Cold Waters doesn't have any of the systems simulation. I like messing around with the sonar.
Jane's 688i had one thing that this one and all its successors didn't have... A Ships Head Marker (SHM) on the Sonar that wasn't 180 degrees out! (In the above game you are doing approx. 270-280 heading, but your shm is showing a little over 90 degrees - right in the sonar's baffles.
Because of this bug I just can't play the later games. I'm so surprised no one has ever mentioned it. If you have 688 still knocking around take a look to see what I mean...
Absolutely reminds me of 688i. I loved that game, and real sub tactics actually worked! (Yep, ex-bubblehead here!)
2018 - looking for a modern submarine simulator with waterfall etc. Any recommendations?
Well. The result was never in doubt. Pottering about at periscope depth, merrily springing away with sonar and cavitation? Are you sure this captain wasn't a KGB spy? The only surprise here is how long he lasted! Maybe the Russians were laughing so hard the tears got in the way.
Can't understand why the maker pulled the plug on this. It was a great game, albeit it hated some sound card drivers. By the time I moved to 8.1 it was unplayable. OK so it's a niche game but that didn't stop it being great.
Download the VMware workstation and create a Windows XP virtual machine with low specs (one processor and 2Gb memory is enough), run perfectly in the virtual machine, even with the voice command and network in MP
Juan Ortiz That's a smart idea. Do you think it would work with other old Dos games that we're unable to launch in Windows 7? Thanks.
Grunge LovR Yes if the XP system run the old DOS games, it works smooth. I used with Jane's FLEET COMMAND and others. I even installed Tunngle and Hamashi to run LAN style the old games
Juan Ortiz Do you mean that you've installed Windows XP on your virtual machine with a program called VMware? I never heard about this program before but I'll check it right now. That sounds great cuz I still have some good old Dos games that I can't run. Thanks a lot for this info. By the way, it's also possible to play tones of those good old games directly in our Internet browsers with this websites: archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games
There are many games included and there are other websites like this.
Yeah the VMware is a software that reserve a physical space of you harddrive and run any operating system in your current machine (any Linux, Windows, Servers, etc), and dont need to uninstall what you have right now, in particular the workstation version is for NON server computers (like any game PC at home), managing your current hardware (network, USBs, DVDs, CPU and memory) as you wish in the virtual PC (you can use the microsoft Hyper-V either, but I prefer Vmware)
www.vmware.com/products/workstation.html
After install the vmware, you can create a virtual machine (or many), the wizard will ask you how much memory you will use, how many CPUs and cores, if you want your network card shared with the physical PC, sound card, how much HDD space you want in this new machine, etc. (You need to have a CD or an ISO image with windows XP latest version).
Then in the wizard you say what operating system will you install, if you have in the physical CD/DVD drive, or in a USB, or an ISO image, and then VMware creates the virtual machine and start running the Windows XP installation, like another PC inside your own PC! it's GREAT!
My advice, for Windows XP and old games, use only one processor with two cores max, 2GB memory, and about 60GB HDD space.
Everyone point and laugh at the guy playing the submarine sim who knows absolutely nothing about sonar lol. (MUCH better to give away your position with active pings and radar lmao)
Audi Guy IKR?
What the hell he is doing? Fired a TLAM against a Vessel lol
fuck this looks terrible. We got better graphics when fist 3d cards came out.
Seriously, WTF with the graphics? Its as though Sonalyst has kept the same graphics designer going as far back as Janes F15....lame graphics...lame and I mean lame! OH, and their latest game/sim....totally absent of graphics which proves my point. They can't afford a top shelf graphics simulator. And you uploaded a game created for 4:3 ratios and you stretched the graphics! Confirms my point yet again.
This guy's a lunatic. Has no idea. All crew members should request immediate helo evac!
As an old professional salt AND successfull 688(i) Hunter-Killer player for many years I can confirm that this guy knows nothing about submarine warfare: Once he UNSUCCESSFULLY fires twice a grand total of 5 missiles plus two (2) ACTIVE sonar impulses PLUS several radar impulses, he should see to it to get away, at least under the next thermal layer. From a first beginning he should have taken ONLY series of (passive) ESM bearings from the Kirov until he obtains an idea for a firing solution (bearing, distance, course, speed) of the same. Then launch two (2) ADCAP fishes. That should do the job!
Only issue is that it doesn't work on Windows 10, just Windows 7 and Vista. Otherwise, since I can't play this, I play Sub Command. Still wonderfull!!
Reminds me a bit of Red Storm Rising, which was on Windows 95 (I believe), i.e. back when dinosaurs roamed the earth.
The active ping plus the radar should have should have given the Kirov a pretty good idea of where you are and what you are, if the crew is on the ball. You don't really want that to happen. . . Assuming radar/periscope about 9 ft above the surface and visible Kirov superstructure about 100 ft above the surface, detection range under ideal conditions is no farther than about 15 nm. Generally - don't radiate (active sonar or radar) and don't stick anything above the surface.
Old_Guard Safer than what I do. Hang at periscope depth with the ESM up. It a helo is close, I go to sailing depth and shoot it down with the ManPADS and dive, cackling all the way.
And again, you made every mistake possible. Hat off to do it once so badly, but now I bow deeply to make every possible mistake you can make in two submarine games in succession, haha.
I have this and I hated it. Modern warfare as modelled here is all distant and impersonal. There were some aspects I liked but overall I thought it was bad. Great programming etc just crap in terms of decent immersive gameplay. Something the Silent Hunter series got together quite well eventually.
Game called Dangerous Waters
Terrible graphics
He is talking about simulation, of course the graphics are of the early 2000s and suck right now in 2017, but no other modern sub sim have brought the level of simulation that this one, including sonars, themal layers, etc. And with the Red Alert Mod is terrific.
What the hell? It's 688i. They didn't even re-skin it. This game is 18 years old if it is a day. It was developed for Windows 98! Even the sounds are exactly the same.
è vecchio e non è un simulatore ma un gioco isometrico
pretty sure I played this on SEGA and it was called 688i ..... at least it looks likt its from the late 80's. Play Cold Waters...
好懷念這種可以玩全球各國海軍以及各地區都可以玩，模擬得非常好，只可惜WIN 10 64BIT下不能玩
ils ont tué mon ami russe alors ...
Would like to get a game where one could play a boomer capt. He goes rouge and threatens to launch his nukes and all the subs from all countries tries to find me before i can.
I'm gonna forgive how he plays, because this is maybe the first time when he said "best" anything and was actually right.
So this is a tutorial on how not to play the game.
lui seul pourrait etre 007
It is a vid about "What NOT to do" on Dangerous Waters!...useful insight!... ;-)
I played last 16 yr
Are any of the "Janes" simulations available? I used to have them all. Last one I bought was Desperate Waters. Spent countless hours in 688I and Longbow. Where have they gone? Does anyone have these that will run on today's systems? Is there anything that comes close, today?
I think DCS world is a good flight simulator.
Nice tactics there bro! ( I probably wouldn't have put this one up)
Boring to watch
First Sub sim with an actual deployable towed array.
Obviously you never played Sub Command. Towed array was a feature in that game, wasn't just a sensor either it was a physical deployment that could get tangled in the propeller or in shallow waters drag along the seafloor causing interference in the sensor data.. came out in 2001.
@@Twizted86 Well alright then. That's two games. Considering the amount of sub Sims out there, I'm not surprised I missed one. Any others or just those two? I'll get Sun Command and check it out. I was in the Navy in 01 so that's probably why I missed that one. Wasn't home much.
Terrible Graphic...Worst than the first Silence Hunter.
688I hunter killer
Hello, from when is that game? Regards.
You can't walk around in the sub, and when hit with a torpedo, it lights on fire, and starts smoking, and sinks without so much as a dent? Fire?? Smoking??? Underwater?!?!
There's no smoke or fire except the flash from the explosion itself. Where did you see smoke? And you couldn't walk around the sub in Silent Hunter 3 either, which was made roughly the same time.
and this is what you call the best submarine game on PC?.......there is subgames way better than this on the market. Silent hunter series are way the best (so far). and for modern submarines there is a "old" game,.." Silent Steel" (very different gamestyle) but unforunally the last OP system it works on is Windows XP. (originally it was written for Win 95).
Silent Steel a simulator?! Are you joking?
Well, maybe you are right.....a sim is maybe to "stretch the consept a litte" in the case of Silent Steel, don't know what to call a game as that (I wrote that the game has a very diffent gamestyle......very different)
doesn't work on Windows 7 or higher. XP was great!
Any chance of a sub simulator on the ps4
cool video.
how about for PC & android
Just the same as 688(i)Hunter Killer.
no its different,
Graphics are a bit more detailed. Feels slightly less clunky.
very similar to Subcommand..
please give me the link of this game ??
might aswell got silent Hunter if we are going retro
silent hunter is a million times better
I played it 10 years ago
they need to be able to field day that boat
be great if it worked on windows 10
Even in 2010 i played in much better submarine sims
Even in 2010, this game was six years old.
Are you serious
i preffer cold waters
Wtf is that ? 😂
Its from 1997
Finally you show an actual sim.
WOLFPACK BRO!
graphic from 1990?
deejayGOLDEE the game is from the 90s
Actually, released in 2005. But they used the engine from their earlier games, which dates back to 1997. It was improved significantly, but if you want to see just how far behind the curve it was, visually, go look at footage of Silent Hunter 3, which released the same year.
silent hunter is better
Ehhhh...."BEST simulator...."....on graphic it really sucks ;) Looking at water and explosions I got a reminder of "before 2000-times"....the rest looks nice....
tactics aspect is a good one....optional settings seem nice....but it needs a hell of a skill it seems to even kill a single freighter....nothing for mwe guy....try to convince others :)
My rate would be 60/100 on THAT sight...good for nerds....all else should steer clear of that wreck ;)
I believe that the OP designed this for brevity. If he really wanted to sink the Kirov he would've used the time compression option to do a AI assisted TMA then launched a spread of 4 torpedoes. Like I said in my previous post, if you truly want to spend the time on this, use Steam. It runs fine on Win10 and Linux. I add that Fleet Command comes with it and FC was a nice sim also. Both sims have THICK manuals available on-line. You can buy the manuals on Amazon if you can find them. Expensive.
its good to know it runs fine on steam.
The trouble with older sims not working on W8.0 or W10 is that any add ons DONT work. If you bought commercial add-ons for simulators you will need to keep your old PC and the operating system, which is basically Windows XP.
Even Vista is messing up dlls. needed to run the simulator properly.
And, dare I say it, with some sims you need W98 or ME. That is tantamount to torture!
But good cheap XP laptops with Nvidia or ATI graphics are now very cheap and the solution.
Seriously, say this game is the best in 2017 when we have games like Silent Hunter 5 is very idiotic. What a crap.
Wow, this looks baaaaad.
Jean-Baptiste Emmanuel Zorg how