A lot in the homosexual community unfortunately aided in the spead of HIV, by their refusal the quit those bath houses, as they felt those baths was a tradition and their right. Their was incidents of some that knew they had the illness but refused to slow down. "The Party" ran right into the HIV/AIDS epidemic and the party was over as soon as it started, as HIV arrived in the United States around the late 1960s (1965-1969. Raymond Raymond died of AIDS in St. Loui, Missouri in 1969.). Some were silently getting infected in the 1970s, which due to HIV incubation to AIDS usally being 8 to 10 years, resulted in early documented AIDS cases in the early 1980s
I remember reading about Robert Rayford. He was just a child, lived in poverty, had to do sex work to survive and sexual abused. Died when he was 16. Some pedophile pig had sex with an impoverished child and infected him with HIV (a pig regardless, having sex with a child).
Very true. Because of the PC nature of society a lot of things aren't said but should be because as hard as it is to hear, it is history and will help others learn from mistakes. Gay men were highly promiscuous and had unprotected rampant physical relations. Even today the community is highly focused on sex. Just go to a parade and you'll see a large nbr of sexualized clothes, signs, symbols and behavior.
None of which really should have meant the closing of the bath houses if the virus hadn't been spread to the heterosexuals and children via tainted blood and drug use, to say nothing of bisexuals. If the disease had stayed within the homosexual community, they would not have been closed.
If anything, it became worse because men had to go back to cruising in dark, sketchy outdoor places where safe sex was much more difficult than the baths where condoms and lube were at least available.
People always want to politicize, moralize and being judgmental about everything. We just need to be practical and logical; everything comes with a prize and we need to practice safe sex, no matter if we are straight, gay or bi. We need to check our health often and more if we exchange fluids with other beings. For some people it took just one time, even their first time to get infected.
It only takes your first night out on the booze to get in a car and kill someone. Drink driving will never end because the bottom line is there are too many (most ) people out there who think 'rights' only apply to them, not anybody else. Homosexual activity will always be problematic because it is about promiscuity and sexual acts that provide unlimited opportunity for deadly viruses to thrive. We may have AIDS under control, but another deadly virus is just around the corner, and nothing will have changed because complacency has well and truly set in.
The bathhouses were a huge problem,some men had it from behind with over 100 people a night. Even when they saw KS on their bodies. They still didnt quit
26:28 I legit gasped out loud… like women & blacks??? What blows my mind is that people that think this way are still actively pursuing political control. I am disgusted…
I am gay but cannot understand the promiscuous behavior of many gays of San Francisco ( and elsewhere) at the time of aids spreading so fast. Just suicidal.
What?? You mean he had a gun to their heads? No, Dr. Silverman DID think the bathhouses should be closed but knew there were a lot of gay men who wanted them open & felt that closing them was an affront to their lifestyle.
@@Ranman1 lol yes I do know about Dr. Mervyn Silverman & his role as the Director of Health for San Francisco. I wish I was old enough to have married him, he was hot!!
@@Ranman1 Kinda like how practically it would make sense to institute further gun control in the US nationwide but we never really do, because it's an 'affront to the American lifestyle'.
These were adult men who had the available information at the time…if they chose to continue a promiscuous lifestyle they need to look no further than the mirror.
If only we had responded to AIDS with even half of the (unconstitutional) vigor with which we responded to COVID. We knew who was primarily spreading AIDS and what specific part of that identifiable group's lifestyle was implicated. But God forbid we tell gays "no". The spread of AIDS was akin to the universe trying to tell you something.
I’m afraid that the lack of response to AIDS and the resulting state of affairs was used to fear monger and frighten the general public when there was a new “pandemic” on the horizon. Sadly, it won’t be the last time that playbook is used to gradually take every last liberty we have left.
The ridiculous idea of the universe "trying to tell you something" is harmful, in that it informs the opinions of people (apparently, like yourself) who are scarcely affected by the scientific process. Moreover, are you a legal scholar qualified to assess the "constitutional vigor" (whatever that means) of a public policy? What happened in the 1980s and 1990s with the AIDS crisis ought to be considered through a public health lens, to be sure, but also through an understanding of sociology and psychology, which can illuminate the complexity of human motivations. While a critique to the resistance of the closure of the baths is merited based on our understanding of the relevant medical and public health science, I also know what it feels like to grow up in a homophobic society bent on punishing you for your existence. Their responses were not unlike those who pushed back against the slightest guidance about covid prevention protocol and vaccinations. We can extrapolate other situations to reveal the absurdity of your profoundly illogical reasoning. The notion of an interventionist universe that has intent leads to pronouncements that, say, a tornado in the Midwest USA is punishment for the bad choices of an entire population. Should they offer a rain dance to the "heavens" as penance? What immoralities were perpetrated by the dinosaurs to "invite" an asteroid to Earth, ultimately catalyzing their destruction? (Perhaps you are convinced that dinosaurs were a species concocted by evolution-promoting Darwinians?).
Let's compare it to the death toll from heterosexual fornication. That's what, a million babies a year? Most AIDS deaths worldwide are heterosexual too.
I think that should have been pressed further rather than the closure of the bathhouses. It may have been too late for those infected already, but the bathhouses would have been a great place to reach young gay men who didn’t understand the epidemic. I hope the closure helped, but as stated in the episode, these men were most likely engaging in these behaviors in secret places that did not offer an opportunity for safe sex education.
President Reagan and HW Bush significantly increased funding for AIDS research, but they never get any credit. By 1992 HIV wasn't necessarily a death sentence. I still recall Magic Johnson's announcement in '92. He thrived.
The addition of visuals would have made this video and series one of the best I've seen.
A lot in the homosexual community unfortunately aided in the spead of HIV, by their refusal the quit those bath houses, as they felt those baths was a tradition and their right. Their was incidents of some that knew they had the illness but refused to slow down.
"The Party" ran right into the HIV/AIDS epidemic and the party was over as soon as it started, as HIV arrived in the United States around the late 1960s (1965-1969. Raymond Raymond died of AIDS in St. Loui, Missouri in 1969.). Some were silently getting infected in the 1970s, which due to HIV incubation to AIDS usally being 8 to 10 years, resulted in early documented AIDS cases in the early 1980s
I remember reading about Robert Rayford. He was just a child, lived in poverty, had to do sex work to survive and sexual abused. Died when he was 16. Some pedophile pig had sex with an impoverished child and infected him with HIV (a pig regardless, having sex with a child).
Very true. Because of the PC nature of society a lot of things aren't said but should be because as hard as it is to hear, it is history and will help others learn from mistakes. Gay men were highly promiscuous and had unprotected rampant physical relations. Even today the community is highly focused on sex. Just go to a parade and you'll see a large nbr of sexualized clothes, signs, symbols and behavior.
None of which really should have meant the closing of the bath houses if the virus hadn't been spread to the heterosexuals and children via tainted blood and drug use, to say nothing of bisexuals. If the disease had stayed within the homosexual community, they would not have been closed.
@@rkeyes883 Going back to the prior episode, Michael Callen admitted to 3000 sexual partners by age 27!
The really enjoyed the series. Very informative.
Mayor Feinstein saved thousands of lives when she shut down the Gay Bath Houses in San Francisco. ❤️
You think the sex stopped because they locked a door? lol
Probably less than Fauci killed by delaying the endorsement of Bactrim prophylaxis for years.
If anything, it became worse because men had to go back to cruising in dark, sketchy outdoor places where safe sex was much more difficult than the baths where condoms and lube were at least available.
@sharonrigs7999, Why did they have to?
Do homosexuals not have the ability to control themselves on any level?
This is such a well done series, its so heartbreaking x
This whole series is so well done.
People always want to politicize, moralize and being judgmental about everything. We just need to be practical and logical; everything comes with a prize and we need to practice safe sex, no matter if we are straight, gay or bi. We need to check our health often and more if we exchange fluids with other beings.
For some people it took just one time, even their first time to get infected.
Totally agree. We need to stop politicizing. Everyone was fearful not just the "right".
It only takes your first night out on the booze to get in a car and kill someone. Drink driving will never end because the bottom line is there are too many (most ) people out there who think 'rights' only apply to them, not anybody else. Homosexual activity will always be problematic because it is about promiscuity and sexual acts that provide unlimited opportunity for deadly viruses to thrive. We may have AIDS under control, but another deadly virus is just around the corner, and nothing will have changed because complacency has well and truly set in.
The bathhouses were a huge problem,some men had it from behind with over 100 people a night. Even when they saw KS on their bodies. They still didnt quit
100 in a night? No way man. Thats not possible. 🤣
26:28 I legit gasped out loud… like women & blacks???
What blows my mind is that people that think this way are still actively pursuing political control. I am disgusted…
I am gay but cannot understand the promiscuous behavior of many gays of San Francisco ( and elsewhere) at the time of aids spreading so fast. Just suicidal.
Silverman was a coward and responsible for thousands of more infections.
What?? You mean he had a gun to their heads?
No, Dr. Silverman DID think the bathhouses should be closed but knew there were a lot of gay men who wanted them open & felt that closing them was an affront to their lifestyle.
@@julieann4616 Read what you wrote again, until it clicks. AN AFFRONT TO THEIR LIFESTYLE!? Are you for real?!
@@Ranman1 lol yes I do know about Dr. Mervyn Silverman & his role as the Director of Health for San Francisco. I wish I was old enough to have married him, he was hot!!
I agree! The baths should have been shut down from the beginning. So many people needlessly died. So sad 😢!
@@Ranman1 Kinda like how practically it would make sense to institute further gun control in the US nationwide but we never really do, because it's an 'affront to the American lifestyle'.
These were adult men who had the available information at the time…if they chose to continue a promiscuous lifestyle they need to look no further than the mirror.
If only we had responded to AIDS with even half of the (unconstitutional) vigor with which we responded to COVID.
We knew who was primarily spreading AIDS and what specific part of that identifiable group's lifestyle was implicated.
But God forbid we tell gays "no".
The spread of AIDS was akin to the universe trying to tell you something.
I’m afraid that the lack of response to AIDS and the resulting state of affairs was used to fear monger and frighten the general public when there was a new “pandemic” on the horizon. Sadly, it won’t be the last time that playbook is used to gradually take every last liberty we have left.
The ridiculous idea of the universe "trying to tell you something" is harmful, in that it informs the opinions of people (apparently, like yourself) who are scarcely affected by the scientific process. Moreover, are you a legal scholar qualified to assess the "constitutional vigor" (whatever that means) of a public policy?
What happened in the 1980s and 1990s with the AIDS crisis ought to be considered through a public health lens, to be sure, but also through an understanding of sociology and psychology, which can illuminate the complexity of human motivations. While a critique to the resistance of the closure of the baths is merited based on our understanding of the relevant medical and public health science, I also know what it feels like to grow up in a homophobic society bent on punishing you for your existence. Their responses were not unlike those who pushed back against the slightest guidance about covid prevention protocol and vaccinations.
We can extrapolate other situations to reveal the absurdity of your profoundly illogical reasoning. The notion of an interventionist universe that has intent leads to pronouncements that, say, a tornado in the Midwest USA is punishment for the bad choices of an entire population. Should they offer a rain dance to the "heavens" as penance? What immoralities were perpetrated by the dinosaurs to "invite" an asteroid to Earth, ultimately catalyzing their destruction? (Perhaps you are convinced that dinosaurs were a species concocted by evolution-promoting Darwinians?).
Let's compare it to the death toll from heterosexual fornication. That's what, a million babies a year? Most AIDS deaths worldwide are heterosexual too.
Let's compare it to the death toll from heterosexual sex. That's what, a million babies a year? Most AIDS deaths worldwide are heterosexual too.
Let's compare it to the death toll from heterosexual fornication. That's what, a million babies a year?
Cleve Jones is such a 🤡. He can't decide to this day if it was good to shut down the bathhouses.
Bath houses also offered unique opportunities for safe sex education.
I agree. Some of the men would have listened. It saved some lives.
I think that should have been pressed further rather than the closure of the bathhouses. It may have been too late for those infected already, but the bathhouses would have been a great place to reach young gay men who didn’t understand the epidemic. I hope the closure helped, but as stated in the episode, these men were most likely engaging in these behaviors in secret places that did not offer an opportunity for safe sex education.
So Interesting but can't stand the main voice vocal fry dude sort it out.
President Reagan and HW Bush significantly increased funding for AIDS research, but they never get any credit. By 1992 HIV wasn't necessarily a death sentence. I still recall Magic Johnson's announcement in '92. He thrived.
Reagan’s inaction led to the AIDS crisis being as bad as it was.
Reagan was one of the biggest reasons AIDS killed so many. He didn’t mentioned AIDS 1986.