This StarCraft Reddit situation is CRAZY

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  • Опубліковано 20 лис 2024

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  • @ChannelMiner
    @ChannelMiner 2 місяці тому +1520

    Props to the guy for taking up Harstem on the challenge instead of just being all talk.

    • @davidm2031
      @davidm2031 2 місяці тому +168

      Not only that, he proved his point. He was able to win a map.

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +144

      Thanks! It indeed felt great!

    • @darealrulezbreaker9493
      @darealrulezbreaker9493 2 місяці тому +62

      @@davidm2031 and the second game was really really close too! I started rooting for the guy haha

    • @forcelightningcable9639
      @forcelightningcable9639 2 місяці тому +11

      I think he already had the strat ready when he posted, but yeah, homie got balls.

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +48

      @@darealrulezbreaker9493 I tried hard and lost due to my 3K scouting and multitasking. What if I had 3.3K scouting and mutlitasking T_T.

  • @TheChaosSpectrum
    @TheChaosSpectrum 2 місяці тому +1159

    "this guy doesn't know how to macro" - proceeds to get supply blocked for eternity.

    • @Stardash81
      @Stardash81 2 місяці тому +3

      Fr

    • @MagnusRender
      @MagnusRender 2 місяці тому +4

      Funny, yes, but who was the better macro'er overall?

    • @BarefootCM
      @BarefootCM Місяць тому +12

      I also think he is too skilled to guage how much easier macro play is for lower skill players when you have infinite gas.
      Yeah the bonus econ by not spending on gas structures but also its essentially an extra worker to build, simpler build orders, less actions to juggle into your apm.

    • @knoxtibia3330
      @knoxtibia3330 Місяць тому

      it was pretty good, then misplaces his command center 2 minutes after that lol

    • @knoxtibia3330
      @knoxtibia3330 Місяць тому +1

      then cancels his third base in the third game, captain was cooking

  • @MattSlaughter
    @MattSlaughter 2 місяці тому +987

    The look on your face when those first voids came in cracked me up, haha.

    • @Leonhart_93
      @Leonhart_93 2 місяці тому +27

      Makes sense, their main downside these days is that they are really expensive. Remove that, and you get yourself some tough units.

    • @TheLOUDERMAN
      @TheLOUDERMAN 2 місяці тому +1

      Pure gold

    • @calebadam2576
      @calebadam2576 2 місяці тому +20

      You could tell he was not prepared to actually face a challenge, but enjoyed it immensely.

    • @JasonMendoza-hd3ce
      @JasonMendoza-hd3ce 2 місяці тому +16

      He was so honest in his response and had no qualms with sending kudos to them, love it.

    • @singleplayerparty3899
      @singleplayerparty3899 2 місяці тому

      Went back to watch that part. Totally worth it! Haha

  • @SimonWesleyCh.
    @SimonWesleyCh. 2 місяці тому +564

    Dude, the pure fear in your voice when you saw those three void rays in the first match is absolutely priceless.

    • @redcollard3586
      @redcollard3586 2 місяці тому +4

      Bruh spoilers

    • @zeri3889
      @zeri3889 2 місяці тому +33

      @@redcollard3586 why do you read the comments before watching the video thou? xD

    • @RichyRich2607
      @RichyRich2607 2 місяці тому +1

      "fear"

    • @Jyaif
      @Jyaif 2 місяці тому

      I rewatched the "what the hell" moment a dozen time

    • @OmegaShinku
      @OmegaShinku Місяць тому

      brought me back to OG void rays days

  • @N4rha
    @N4rha 2 місяці тому +362

    I find it funny that Harstem is surprised at the early scouting when his opponent knows that he's facing the cheesiest man alive

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +82

      Unlike what many people are saying, I did not gamble, tried to scout to the best of my ability, and had a response plan for most scenarios I can think of.

    • @mothrahlurker788
      @mothrahlurker788 2 місяці тому

      Because it really doesn't make any sense to scout at that timing.

    • @nichfra
      @nichfra 2 місяці тому +4

      When you play against a proxy 3 or 4 gate the gas doesn't matter as much as micro does. So making sure you aren't rushed and can actually use your gas advantage is important. The timing is slightly off because they aren't a pro player.

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +31

      @@mothrahlurker788 I was checking for proxy gates and cannon rush. Both were scoutable at that point. My micro is worse so I need to respond earlier.

    • @Shmandalf
      @Shmandalf 2 місяці тому +7

      To be fair I think the cheesiest man alive is Florencio, but I get the sentiment

  • @Alsicufe
    @Alsicufe 2 місяці тому +65

    So freaking nice seeing someone humble after the first one, acknowledging misstakes, blindsides etc without beeing salty/pissed

    • @boliveto
      @boliveto Місяць тому +5

      love harstem critical thinking and how unbiased he is on every game, even his own

  • @朕是神
    @朕是神 2 місяці тому +179

    Mass sentries sounds like a legit strat with this challenge. They cost 50 minerals, and they do quite well against gateway units and can probably drag the game out long enough until you get enough gateways and templar archive for mass 100 mineral archons.

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +124

      Was my plan for G4. But Harstem's first Stalkers were faster than in my practice games so I was forced to build more Stalkers than Sentries which delayed everything.

    • @NewTyp3
      @NewTyp3 2 місяці тому +2

      ⁠@@shen_zhuorannice try! Proxying them outside his base like that was interesting, what was the thought behind that?

    • @nightmareTomek
      @nightmareTomek Місяць тому +2

      @@shen_zhuoran yea, you normally can't afford 4gates proxied so far, they're all mineral heavy, that's why your core was late and subsequently his Stalkers so early.
      As said somewhere else, I'd love to see you refine the build and try again, some 1000 sentries shenanigans sounds more interesting to me than the good old meta that hasn't changed since 2017...

    • @Confluence358
      @Confluence358 Місяць тому

      Yeah I was also thinking mass 100 min archons lol. If you somehow survived for like 7 minutes you could climb the tech tree sooo fast and just start pumping them out like nobodies business.

  • @felonyx5123
    @felonyx5123 2 місяці тому +128

    Super fast scout makes sense: gotta make sure the pro doesn't try to just win with cheese before the gas ever comes into play. Don't know if it's optimal but it's what I'd be paranoid about in his shoes.

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +21

      I was specifically checking for proxy gates or cannon rush. Anything from his base would not hit earlier than my Voids.

    • @mothrahlurker788
      @mothrahlurker788 2 місяці тому +1

      @@shen_zhuoran You don't need to scout this early for proxygates and a cannonrush only blindcounters himself. Because no matter what you do, a tech rush, either robo or stargate is a win.

  • @EncryptedLiberty
    @EncryptedLiberty 2 місяці тому +238

    Every assimilator is also 3 probes. So for every assimilator that you would normally take, you need to build 3 less probes. I suspect that's a large part of it, because that's a significant part of expanding that you don't need to do anymore.

    • @nibs1989
      @nibs1989 2 місяці тому +29

      He saves himself 450 minerals off the bat by not needing assimilators, which saves time and equals 3 easy Stargates and 3 voidrays really fast.

    • @52flyingbicycles
      @52flyingbicycles 2 місяці тому +12

      450 minerals saved per expansion!

    • @EncryptedLiberty
      @EncryptedLiberty 2 місяці тому +15

      @@52flyingbicycles I think the time it takes to build those workers is a much larger impact. If he wants to expand, it doesn't take as long to saturate the minerals. If he doesn't, he can stop building workers way faster. But the mineral savings are big, too.

    • @GangsterGumbo
      @GangsterGumbo 2 місяці тому +5

      ​@nibs1989 Yeah, the *immediate* boost of the savings turns into maxing out on mineral workers faster, which translates into making those Stargates faster. Streamrolling speed bonuses left and right.

    • @XanderCrews4Prez
      @XanderCrews4Prez 2 місяці тому +4

      I don't understand this conversation. That's not a large part of it, that's ALL of it. You can't buy anything with gas only. So.... the advantage is you have more probes mining minerals.
      "Also?" No. Only.

  • @asharak84
    @asharak84 2 місяці тому +18

    As a reminder, on these maps with big walled areas it's trivial to know if they break it open: Click a scout into the blocked area. If they head across the map then there is an opening, if they head to faceplant into a wall it's closed. Unless the opponent is sneaky enough to break in and then wall behind them then it's a simple way to know without having to look carefully.

  • @barbecuedchicken2894
    @barbecuedchicken2894 2 місяці тому +204

    I love that harstem completely misjudged how disgusting this is
    For instance, on 1 base, 16 workers mining aka 16minerals per second, warp gate warping in high templars have 32s cooldown, at 50 minerals each, we have
    16/(50/32) =10.24 warp gates on cooldown permanents.
    You can support 10 gateways on 1 base, making 5 archons on 1 base every 30 seconds.
    This is unbelievably broken

    • @asdfqwerty14587
      @asdfqwerty14587 2 місяці тому +35

      In fairness, pro players have done some pretty ridiculous challenges - uThermal has won a 6v1 before for instance (granted, that was against bronze/silver players and he didn't do it on the first attempt.. but still, winning a 6v1 at all is a way bigger handicap than winning a 1v1 against an opponent with infinite gas). If it reaches the lategame, a pro player will still destroy a lower ranked player even with infinite gas - but there might be some cheeses that hit way earlier than they normally would that a low ranked player could execute that could beat a pro player.

    • @berndarndt9924
      @berndarndt9924 2 місяці тому +34

      @@asdfqwerty14587 uThermal would have never won that game against coordinated bronze players where 1-2 people just worker rush him. Doing that would ofc be boring, so it wasn't done.
      And here it is similar in that the pro has the best chance winning by just rushing before gas can make a difference.
      You can build t2 & t3 units way earlier with unlimited gas. And so pros won't really hit lategame ever. You just need to pick gas heavy units, not units like stalkers or vikings.

    • @mcmarkmarkson7115
      @mcmarkmarkson7115 2 місяці тому +6

      Well pro's will just rush you early game, before any gas can make a difference
      I would just spam spine crawlers and queens while rushing mutalisk, don't do 1 base all in, but open up with a second base right away, not even a pro will be able to stop two base zerg with lots of early spines and queens against early harass then two base minerals only muta rush, unstoppable

    • @gypsycatcher18
      @gypsycatcher18 2 місяці тому +12

      @@mcmarkmarkson7115 so go and do it, challenge harstem and show us how tough you are

    • @majormarketing6552
      @majormarketing6552 2 місяці тому +2

      @berndarndt9924 Doesnt matter.

  • @XpomAE
    @XpomAE 2 місяці тому +96

    Yea, these voidrays scared the hell out of me

  • @wikihoolima8988
    @wikihoolima8988 2 місяці тому +127

    I’m watching the second game and thinking: “reapers for 50 minerals - TAKE MY MONEY”

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +39

      You need micro for Reapers to pay for themselves. In my hand, Reapers are worse than unstimmed Marines...

    • @gagaronpew4382
      @gagaronpew4382 2 місяці тому +7

      i was thinking mass raven and auto turret spam

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +8

      @@gagaronpew4382 I could have try next time!

    • @Leo.23232
      @Leo.23232 2 місяці тому

      @@shen_zhuoran they have better stats still, so how are they worse even if you a move them

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +3

      @@Leo.23232 They have lower DPS against units with base armor, which is basically anything Protoss, except Probes.

  • @sealboy1211
    @sealboy1211 2 місяці тому +10

    To this guys credit, playing a 1v1 against a pro player is kinda like a jam session with a pro musician, and he made it happen.

  • @rykehuss3435
    @rykehuss3435 2 місяці тому +83

    oh hey its the legend himself, Flash

  • @i_am_person52
    @i_am_person52 2 місяці тому +176

    the voidray jumpscare

    • @michaelbuckers
      @michaelbuckers 2 місяці тому +5

      WAS THAT THE VOID OF 87?!?

    • @FatherNagic
      @FatherNagic Місяць тому

      @@michaelbuckers dude that isnt funny

    • @bloodclot
      @bloodclot Місяць тому

      Timestamp?

  • @keeleyhoek
    @keeleyhoek 2 місяці тому +178

    This isn't the SC2 name tier list I was promised my man

  • @squashiejoshie200000
    @squashiejoshie200000 2 місяці тому +8

    Something I don't think you considered, or at least not before the first game. He doesn't just save 150 mins on 2 assimilators. He saves 300 mins on 6 probes that you would use to mine gas, and 6 supply for an additional 100 minerals on a pylon. He didn't just save 150 mins. He saved 550 while reaching full saturation around 3 probes earlier.
    In the TVT game, with his advantage, I would certainly have gone 2 starport BC rush, teleport them across the map ASAP, then follow up with banshee/reaper, either going for the all-in if I control the production or to cover an expand if not. Backup strat would be mass ravens and trade free stuff for enemy resources.
    With the ZVP, I'd probably go with a 3 hatch muta build, expanding for macro, starting spire, and building mutas off of 2 injected hives and 1 non-injected hive. With that I can focus on trading efficiently with the mutas and using their quick healing to be more efficient. It would be an all in though. If I have to transition off of mutas on zerg against protoss, I just lose to stalker micro.

    • @Kradukman
      @Kradukman 2 місяці тому

      For the tvt, thor+ 2nd base is probably the better call. You don't need air superiority with mass thors+scan.

    • @squashiejoshie200000
      @squashiejoshie200000 2 місяці тому

      @@Kradukman I was thinking maybe thors, but don't think they are a good early option just bacause of speed. Like yeah, you could put out a few medivacs to get them to the opponent's base fast, but I think they would just be too slow compared to a bc rush.

    • @Kay-bs3bl
      @Kay-bs3bl Місяць тому

      Yeah 2 BCs WITH Yamato cannon on one base is completely possible. That would have decimated Harstem. He can micro better with a cyclone but Yamato would shut that down.

  • @FrelanceEQ
    @FrelanceEQ 2 місяці тому +3

    I think the key insight is that having free gas isn't just about how quickly you tech up or whatever, it also, or even primarily, functionally halves the cost of units, *while* doubling how many workers are active early.

  • @Aminmotors
    @Aminmotors 2 місяці тому +13

    I laughed out loud for a minute straight when the void rays came in, hahahaha great video

  • @52flyingbicycles
    @52flyingbicycles 2 місяці тому +43

    We all know the answer to starting with infinite minerals: 12 proxy rax marine all in

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +7

      That's less fun. I'd build a full wall of cannons fully surrounding their main.

    • @52flyingbicycles
      @52flyingbicycles 2 місяці тому

      @@berndarndt9924 reapers can beat 12 barracks production worth of marines? You don’t even need your home base especially because you pulled the boys to build all the proxy barracks! Worst case scenario it’s a base trade, can you kill the main, a bunch of barracks, and their nearby supply depots before 12 barracks worth of constant marine production overwhelm you? Not with a couple reapers you can’t

    • @alltat
      @alltat 2 місяці тому +4

      Proxy-hardwall the entire map with hatcheries and then rally infinite zerglings into their base.

    • @arkadiuszkisel5054
      @arkadiuszkisel5054 2 місяці тому

      Now the question is if you could win with bronze that has infinite minerals

    • @MTGandP
      @MTGandP 2 місяці тому

      Or play for the late game by immediately taking every base on the map

  • @enlightenerr8342
    @enlightenerr8342 2 місяці тому +48

    Haha great stuff! Would watch another one!

  • @Mooplet
    @Mooplet Місяць тому

    I always really like the first bit of commentary as the scouts hit the bases, especially with wacky / alternate rulesets like this or uneven teams or something, it's very instructive seeing the adjustments and hearing the explanation

  • @stanimir5F
    @stanimir5F 2 місяці тому +58

    Haters gonna say: "this wasn't the real Flash"

    • @goodlearnerbadstudent756
      @goodlearnerbadstudent756 2 місяці тому +4

      Flash only plays remastered

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +3

      If it's real Flash then even Serral/Clem/herO would have died 100% of the times.

    • @kesatola3554
      @kesatola3554 2 місяці тому +6

      @@shen_zhuoran nah, didn't you watch the video, flash can only get to 3k mmr in sc2, clearly inferior gamer

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому

      @@kesatola3554 lol

    • @goodlearnerbadstudent756
      @goodlearnerbadstudent756 2 місяці тому +1

      @@kesatola3554 flash doesn't play sc2. He quit like 10 years ago.

  • @sevreal4
    @sevreal4 2 місяці тому +5

    This was one of your most fun content lately, this was a blast to watch!

  • @momchilandonov
    @momchilandonov 2 місяці тому +21

    Damn, my country Bulgaria is really quite active in the SC2 tournaments. Uthermal mentioned it at least twice and now Harstem

    • @user-nh2bf4to7g
      @user-nh2bf4to7g 2 місяці тому +6

      They have the distinction of being the only major tournament played after the WTL. After this we're all sort of walking into the unknown: no one has announced that they're picking up SC2 for major/premier tournaments next year, and, rather than saving Starcraft, Microsoft seems to have cut Blizzard's staff even further, so we don't know if anyone there is even courting the esports world to pick up SC2 for another year (although you can damn well bet that they're keeping the licensing fees in place!), or if anyone is even taking the Balance Council's calls anymore.

    • @thewealthofnations4827
      @thewealthofnations4827 2 місяці тому

      Why is Bulgaria breaking into SC2 space?

  • @rogueduelist3137
    @rogueduelist3137 2 місяці тому +4

    Can’t believe the void rays were such a surprise. Toss is easily the best race for this as they have the quickest and most effective gas dumps that also don’t require micro. Sentry’s, archons, and void rays are OP for this

  • @Softcloner
    @Softcloner 2 місяці тому +9

    I think you need to exploit the speed advantage in tech, like he did with voidray. Perhaps ravager for zerg, mass reaper or bc for terran? Id love to see a mass dt build, archons and dts would be very cheap.

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +1

      A 4K Protoss could probably pull off a mass DT build. Not me due to micro issues.

  • @RupertBruce
    @RupertBruce 2 місяці тому +7

    Could you bounce a viking down into those clustered tanks to get the friendly fire to do the damage for you? Could you get the viking out unscathed?

  • @CoysRamirez
    @CoysRamirez Місяць тому +2

    The "what the hell" killed me. I was cackling for a minute there

  • @AxolordlL9
    @AxolordlL9 15 днів тому

    love how positively you can take a loss & talk well of your opponent
    as a league of legends player, it just feels so refreshing to see such good sportsmanship!

  • @asdfqwerty14587
    @asdfqwerty14587 2 місяці тому +35

    I bet a player who's moderately skilled that goes for some kind of reaper cheese could beat a top pro player - there must be some kind of reaper cheese that's just impossible to defend against when the reapers cost no gas, though I don't really know what the best way to do it would be.

    • @CZProtton
      @CZProtton 2 місяці тому +10

      I dont think it matters, proxy 2 rax reaper I think will not be stoppable just because of a sheer number of reapers you can send. Reapers are buildable with a reactor too, its just too many reapers that kill buildings way too fast, you would do the adept glaive rush but with reapers, jumping between nat and main and just rallying more and more into the oponents base.

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +3

      Yeah, if only I had any micro...

    • @Tmoy1124
      @Tmoy1124 2 місяці тому +1

      just keep adding barracks supply depots and mules while spam flooding reapers lol. no refinery, no tech lab, just spam barracks reapers depots and mules

    • @EllipticalReasoning
      @EllipticalReasoning 2 місяці тому +9

      I wouldn't count on it. Reapers look good when good players use them - they die incredibly inefficiently when they get outplayed, and, like harstem demonstrated twice, the pro player can defend while killing your economy.

    • @berndarndt9924
      @berndarndt9924 2 місяці тому +1

      @@Tmoy1124 You should add reactors since they build faster than barracks and cost less minerals.

  • @curious3342
    @curious3342 2 місяці тому +32

    zero gas banelings sounds really hard to beat

    • @raymondsjursen4470
      @raymondsjursen4470 2 місяці тому +7

      Templar archive. 100 minerals for every archon

    • @Wwillswords
      @Wwillswords 2 місяці тому

      ​@raymondsjursen4470 takes to long to get online

    • @Ghi102
      @Ghi102 2 місяці тому +9

      @@raymondsjursen4470 It would probably be too slow. You can only really win with fast all-ins because, as soon as you give time for a pro to build up and get more tools, he will out micro you.

    • @jordanleighton6893
      @jordanleighton6893 2 місяці тому

      ^

    • @berndarndt9924
      @berndarndt9924 2 місяці тому +1

      @@Ghi102 I think BCs would work despite being slow, since they fly and have enough effective hp. Also Yamato on shots pretty much everything the pro can build.

  • @Aminmotors
    @Aminmotors 2 місяці тому +6

    33:32 "I knew you were trouble when you *warped* in" Theres actually a version like that haha

  • @memph1ston
    @memph1ston 2 місяці тому +35

    Shocked there's no infinity-baneling strat so far 😂😂

    • @noah.2B
      @noah.2B 2 місяці тому +16

      Infinity baneling means infinity zergling which means infinity larvae.......

    • @mcmarkmarkson7115
      @mcmarkmarkson7115 2 місяці тому

      Mutas would be better, spam a couple spines and queens and not even pro micro will do any early dmg, then good luck stopping muta spam on two base zerg with infinite gas

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +3

      @@mcmarkmarkson7115 I thought that's what I did in G3...

    • @mcmarkmarkson7115
      @mcmarkmarkson7115 2 місяці тому +5

      @@shen_zhuoran you had no static defenses
      Corrupters were a mistake as well, should have spammed only mutas, they are the price of zealots! + don't cheap out on upgrades, they are a huge advantage and cost you only minerals
      And third base was a mistake, slowing your muta rush down
      And worst mistake, don't trade units against his economy, trade units for units when you already have such a giant economy advantage

    • @hsinglim
      @hsinglim 2 місяці тому +3

      @@shen_zhuoran think G3 felt more like a corruptor denying nexus strat though. Probably an adjustment I can see is, walling off the natural, building spores in mineral line, and macro hatches in main instead of expanding. I do think the mass mutas would lose against phoenixes though.

  • @rohdri
    @rohdri 2 місяці тому +11

    It's twofold actually. First you save the minerals on the assimilator but then you have a bigger boost. Every probe is going into mining minerals right then. That's going to add up too.

    • @mothrahlurker788
      @mothrahlurker788 2 місяці тому

      That's literally what he alluded to.

    • @rohdri
      @rohdri 2 місяці тому +1

      @@mothrahlurker788 the assimilators, yes. I missed where he considered the workers all go straight to mining.

  • @balazspeter1721
    @balazspeter1721 2 місяці тому +1

    Dear Harstem. I have an idea. Spellcaster units when attack moved should stop when they reach spellcasting distance. This way lover level players could use them without sending them in to the enemy army.

  • @goodlearnerbadstudent756
    @goodlearnerbadstudent756 2 місяці тому +15

    surprised he didn't went mass DT, since with infinite gas, DT is like the cost of a zealot each.

    • @TheRlyNewHide
      @TheRlyNewHide 2 місяці тому +2

      Yeah, or Archons.

    • @mothrahlurker788
      @mothrahlurker788 2 місяці тому +1

      Not nearly good enough to win.

    • @Fenrakk101
      @Fenrakk101 2 місяці тому

      @@mothrahlurker788 in these circumstances being good enough is less important than being fast enough. they could probably tech up to DTs like a minute faster than normal and pump them out dramatically faster. or tech up to HTs/archons much faster and build them much, much, much faster

    • @panner11
      @panner11 Місяць тому

      dt is the type of the unit that gets harder to make effective the higher the level of your opponent. You want to make things are brute force and uncounterable when playing against a pro.

    • @Fenrakk101
      @Fenrakk101 Місяць тому

      @@panner11 i agree, but it could have worked and more importantly: would have been fun

  • @themodernshoe2466
    @themodernshoe2466 Місяць тому

    Dude love this, he clearly put thoughts in the builds, each game felt like a campaign mission

  • @Dark_Voice
    @Dark_Voice 2 місяці тому +10

    The second game he literally had you on the ropes if he checked the bases naxt to your main - you couldnt fight the army on the ground, if he didnt retreat, he could trade half of the army for the win - that is with him losing viking war and everything, all he needed was the courage to check the bases next to your main with one of them already being destroyed and know that it is not it. He wouldnt kill you outright of course since you had air supremacy and your buildings could fly but then you would definitely be on a timer which I think even gold league player should be able to exploit.
    For the fourth game I thought he will rush high templars into archons which would cost basically nothing with the gas cost being 0 but stalkers? Madman.

    • @adamnevraumont4027
      @adamnevraumont4027 2 місяці тому

      I mean, do warpgate and sentries. At 50 minerals and 2x damage on shields sentries are badass units.
      Contain with sentries, tech to archons.

    • @mothrahlurker788
      @mothrahlurker788 2 місяці тому

      @@adamnevraumont4027 You literally saw how containing with sentries plays out.

    • @YoshiKirishima
      @YoshiKirishima 2 місяці тому

      He'd be able to just float his OCs, he had plenty of SCVs left still and with MULEs he'd have a higher mineral economy.
      He couldn't really do much once he lost air superiority and Libs came out.
      Going all-in and trying to kill all the production and main was the best bet. He just needed 1 Viking at home to defend the Lib harass so he could continue production and reclaim air superiority. Or honestly cut 1 Viking and get an armory so he can mix in thors so he doesn't even need air superiority vs Libs.

    • @JudgeAnnibal
      @JudgeAnnibal 2 місяці тому

      @@YoshiKirishima Not going for 2 bases as terran with infinite gas is also kinda dumb - if all you need is minerals, just pump out more mules! It can support more vikings or much needed upgrades that Harstem cannot afford. The 450 minerals you save from 2 extractors and 6 workers already pay the expac off.

    • @EternaltheGrey
      @EternaltheGrey 2 місяці тому

      If he'd grounded his vikings to kill the 3-tank push while the enemy vikings flew home to deal with the liberator harass, that would probably have done it too. So much breathing room to mine, probably even to expand safely.

  • @vonriel1822
    @vonriel1822 Місяць тому

    Wandered in here from a random recommend and this was a ton of fun. It's not often I get to see a pro player point of view, it's always insane, and the ruleset made the matches quite interesting.

  • @paxconsciente3352
    @paxconsciente3352 2 місяці тому +2

    this is a great series to continue imo

  • @misterf.3688
    @misterf.3688 2 місяці тому +1

    Great content - really enjoyable, immediately gets me thinking what I would do :) Thanks to you and Flash

  • @skepley
    @skepley Місяць тому

    "I don't see any spots where I don't see stuff" I love Harstem's deep insights

  • @MsHojat
    @MsHojat 2 місяці тому +1

    Infinite vespene from the start of the game is HUGE. That's hundreds of minerals of advantage in the early game and hundreds more as time goes on. Banelings in particular seem scary as they are now only 50 minerals each, and then ravagers and lurkers are crazy as well. But then again Void Rays are also super scary, and also require gas for their production facilities. And if the void rays somehow doesn't kill them, mass archon spam will, with each archon only costing the price of just a zealot.
    Against terran this sounds maybe the most possible to beat just due to their mineral dependence (hellions,marines,marauders,widow mines), but still super scary.

  • @patrickrudiger8762
    @patrickrudiger8762 Місяць тому +1

    I think it was less of an overextimation of mutas. There were plent of things that went badly in the third game and that were result from the buildorder that were not due to mutas as such:
    - too few queens! If you save all the money for assimilators and gas and stuff - which is cost avoided very early since you dont need the assimilator and stuff for ling speed and thus means more drones early - you should have more queens, and there should be a spore in each base for the oracles. The lower the level the more urgent you need spores. Because lower level = slower reaction time = more damage if no spore, so spores are even more important than on higher level where one might have good queen movement.
    - regarding cost early, the lings early were quite uncalled for because they cost part of the larva. They were way too early, and queens would have hurt the eco less and helped more later with the oracles.
    - the idea to add in corruptors was great and if they would have been used a bit more conservatively, this would have worked out to counter the phenix. The reason why normally one cannot go corruptor against phenix is because the toss can go voidway, which counter the corrupters nicely. However, do they counter the corruptors strong enough if the corruptors basically cost 150/0 instead of 150/100? I dont think so. Well, i dont think so if you expand a lot. But expanding a lot should be very possible when mutas give you temporary map control.
    A further reason why this did not work was that a veeeery large amount of corruptors was thrown away in order to snipe bases. With the stalker heavy comp you had, and the early stage of the game, which involved only 2 finished bases, it was just too cost ineffective. After the first base snipe he basically had to build up his corruptors again, leading to insufficient growth of the muta count. Even having the gas as a present, just too many minerals went down the drain on such stuff. Honestly, after seeing your defenses he should have thought "fine, i just double expand and go t3". Its not just money that was lost in the tried base snipe but also attention and apm, which are a precious resource on this level. And when gas is free, you can go for broodlords quite early. The raising number of mutas - when you have corruptors to handle the phenix - cannot be countered by stalkers for that long (the larger the numbers get the wors stalkers get vs mutas, and with the gas cost removed, mutas are cheaper than stalkers!). They also cannot be countered by phenix/voidray because with the map control and thus ability to expand and the gas being free, the voidrays are likely not cost effective enough (Which is why ithink you using mostly stalkers not voids to def them was exactly the right call). Thus you would have to go archon vs the mutas, which is problematic if the zerg goes BL. And with the BL showing up a lot lot earlier in view of gas being free, the air transition will likely not be in time.

  • @adicacid
    @adicacid 2 місяці тому +2

    What a coincidental topic, Day9 also posted a video the other day about "what if one player started with 100 more minerals" and talked about compounding advantages. Meanwhile here it's cranked up to 11 with infinite gas.

    • @Frostbiite59
      @Frostbiite59 2 місяці тому

      i'd say minerals overall is a larger advantage because you've got the ability to use them right away to bolster your economy or get closer to your tech, with gas you still get bottle-necked for quite a bit by your minerals early until you macro and have the minerals to sustain actually spending the gas

    • @jandjhroco
      @jandjhroco Місяць тому

      @@Frostbiite59 I think it might depend on how good the player is. I think with a large skill gap, having less gas would be harder to mess up.
      Not having to use economy to start collecting gas is huge. Those workers all work on more minerals and supply is not taken up by those workers.

  • @joeyfarish2528
    @joeyfarish2528 Місяць тому

    3:32 "WHAT THE HELL??!!" There is true emotion coming out of Harstem here

  • @MikeOldani
    @MikeOldani 2 місяці тому +2

    I'm sitting here waiting for 5 minute Archons and battlecruisers

  • @brycedaugherty9211
    @brycedaugherty9211 2 місяці тому +1

    Most people could not pull this win off. But this guy actually has a shot with these rules

  • @kirill429
    @kirill429 2 місяці тому

    Well done, would have loved to see an interview with the player after the games!

  • @tomwallen7271
    @tomwallen7271 Місяць тому +1

    I thought in the last game he was for sure gonna go Archon.

  • @emissarygw2264
    @emissarygw2264 Місяць тому +1

    I do think the key is to just abuse the free resources to hit an extra spicy all in timing. Unfortunately the early game units tend to be mineral heavy so the pro has a chance to throw you off your game plan before the advantage really kicks in

  • @mranderson978
    @mranderson978 2 місяці тому +9

    This is the Starcraft II equivalent of giving your opponent a Queen head start in chess.

  • @donovan4444
    @donovan4444 Місяць тому

    You could tell Harstem was shook after game 1 when that hard supply block came in game 2

  • @Lightkie
    @Lightkie 2 місяці тому

    Right off the bat when he said "I've checked everything on my side at least." I was like: have you heard of stargates? Like seriously.. how did he not think of that himself.

  • @bayanzabihiyan7465
    @bayanzabihiyan7465 2 місяці тому

    Protoss - 12 Pylon -> Fastest Gate, Core -> Triple stargate is 100% one of the strongest builds. Only way you beat this is if you proxy him before stargates make anything.
    I also think 2-Gate, Core, into more gates and mass sentries would be pretty funny, 50 minerals each would allow you to probably sustain 6 gates of of 1 base.
    100 mineral archons are also insane, but templar archives tech is probably too late, stargate is just so much faster. But if you do the sentry version, then a twilight council into templar archives would be quite affordable spending only minerals.
    For Zerg, I'm thinking that a ravager all-in would be crazy. 100 mineral ravagers sound super broken. 12-pool, into roach warren, can probably afford a hatch somewhere, and just spam ravagers. Use those surplus minerals from not needing gases to build some static defense at home.
    Terran doing 2 factory tank - 2 starport viking is pretty dam strong and I think that build order was a good choice.
    Or reapers from 3 barracks reactor equivalent to a 6-rax reaper. The micro and macro of this build would be very difficult.
    Early game ghost spam against zerg I think would be unbeatable, they eat up queens and lings for breakfast, and with cloak can even deal with roaches.

  • @Jyoryaxx
    @Jyoryaxx 2 місяці тому

    They get 150 Minerals from not building assimilators and 6 probes from not using them for each base. That means for each base, half a base of extra minerals and no limitation on gas, which tends to be more limiting in the first place. I can see why it's so significant.

  • @Alexander-nc2qg
    @Alexander-nc2qg 2 місяці тому

    "The other day I was peacefully browsing reddit." - Your first mistake this video.
    "I could make a video out of this." - Your first august decision in this video.

  • @dorbie
    @dorbie 2 місяці тому +1

    "I've checked pretty much everything on my side of the map", nope.

  • @jawascrapper6277
    @jawascrapper6277 2 місяці тому +1

    this actually could become a popular challenge between pros and amateur players. I guess a lot of (good) players want now to do exactly that against as many pros as they can. And maybe it could be a good way to create a link between those two kind of players.
    edit: just to add that it might aalso become a new format for streamers to do. Y'all know, we have "bronze league heroes", "bronze to gm challenge" and so on. I can see an "Infinite gas challenge" becoming a staple of sc2 streaming, because it would be interesting to see with what kind of creative shenanigans the amateur player will come with, moreover if the amateur can choose the matchup like in the third game, and of course how the pro or semi-pro player will react to it. Also the amateur has nothing to lose since it's normal to lose to a pro player.

  • @markototev
    @markototev 2 місяці тому

    I wish the event was in Plovidv so I could have come, with work and other engagements I couldn't come to Stara Zagora to see you guys play. Hope you enjoyed your tiem in BG

  • @ZerglingLover
    @ZerglingLover 2 місяці тому +34

    I’m unironically so shocked that he won game 1 lol

    • @quineloe
      @quineloe 2 місяці тому +11

      tbh the triple void ray at 3:30 is something else
      There's a reason he does this with Protoss and not Terran or Zerg

    • @ZerglingLover
      @ZerglingLover 2 місяці тому +5

      @@quineloe wait till u see game 2 lol

    • @hetaresgaming7771
      @hetaresgaming7771 2 місяці тому +20

      It's definitely more a surprise factor than anything. If Harstem had actually scouted it, he'd probably be able to mount a defense, or make a call to abandon the main sooner, and yes, Harstem was also thinking too little about the infinite gas and playing as if it were a normal game. That said, good on him for exploiting the map. I'm surprised he didn't bring out his infamous '8 archons and 5 sentries' build that he kept bragging about on reddit; probably because when he actually played he realised that buildings actually take a whole lot of time to make.

    • @CZProtton
      @CZProtton 2 місяці тому

      @@hetaresgaming7771 But really, rushing voidrays and then going archon/carrier after it is probably going to kill everyone. Because you get 50 mineral archons, cheaper carriers and cheaper buildings to get to carriers, meaning you can speed it all up. You need minerals for all of that, but the cheap archons will get you safety enough, I think.
      So, as long as you can survive any early cheeses or attacks while you are doing the voids, even if someone does defend the voids, the follow up is just too good.
      As for the second game, I dont think infinity reapers are beatable. Reapers cannot be masses in a regular game because they cost gas that you need for tanks instead. Now, you dont need to care about that, you can use reapers instead of marines. That is just insane, especially if the enemy does not reaper wall like Harstem did not.

    • @hetaresgaming7771
      @hetaresgaming7771 2 місяці тому +5

      @@CZProtton But that's the point; as long as you can survive, which a plat player definitely would not. Not against a 'top class pro player like Maru or Serral', as claimed by OP in his original reddit post, and as we all know Harstem isn't even near their level, and once he what his opponent was going for, he handled it relatively well even with big mistakes like forgetting to wall, gettign supply blocked. or not paying attention to the ramp during a contain.

  • @CabbageCookies13
    @CabbageCookies13 2 місяці тому +3

    Harstem not stealing gas is a missed opportunity

    • @JJV7243
      @JJV7243 2 місяці тому

      that would have been hillarious

  • @hexaquras9374
    @hexaquras9374 2 місяці тому +72

    personally lightmode is even crazier

    • @Ttangko_
      @Ttangko_ 2 місяці тому +1

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +3

      What's lightmode?

    • @hexaquras9374
      @hexaquras9374 2 місяці тому

      @@shen_zhuoran opposite of dark mode where instead of having your web browser being dark its flashbang white like what harstem has currently

    • @DFGdanger
      @DFGdanger 2 місяці тому

      ​@@shen_zhuoran white background with dark text (in this case on reddit in the browser, nothing to do with starcraft itself). A lot of apps and websites have an option for dark mode where you have dark background and white text instead. A lot of people find it easier on the eyes. There's also a browser extension Dark Reader to force dark mode on sites that don't provide the option.

    • @Ttangko_
      @Ttangko_ 2 місяці тому

      @@shen_zhuoran on your desktop click your youtube profile icon top right > in the middle you can see "appearance". toggle light-/darkmode there

  • @lovethesuit
    @lovethesuit Місяць тому

    What a fantastic channel, thanks for uploading.

  • @jakeg3733
    @jakeg3733 24 дні тому

    I feel like I'm gonna get carpal tunnel just watching pros play

  • @drillnauticus
    @drillnauticus 2 місяці тому

    Thanks for seeing this through!!!

  • @danielskrivan6921
    @danielskrivan6921 2 місяці тому +2

    I was expecting archons. Free gas means they're basically fancy zealots.

  • @tophatwolf
    @tophatwolf 2 місяці тому

    Awesome stuff dude, loved this xD

  • @Necrocidal
    @Necrocidal Місяць тому

    For the last game, it would have been amazing to see something like 7gate sentry. Especially with the extra damage they do now vs toss.

  • @smedleycheswith1272
    @smedleycheswith1272 2 місяці тому +1

    For ZvP, banelings were the obvious play, you can pump out so many lings and the only limiting factor on banelings is gas.

    • @mothrahlurker788
      @mothrahlurker788 2 місяці тому

      Banelings cost 50/25, that is the easiest freewin for Harstem.

    • @JJV7243
      @JJV7243 2 місяці тому

      Weirdly enough - in this setting it might be limited by larva

  • @CedarMcKay
    @CedarMcKay 2 місяці тому

    Nice effort, fun challenge. I think I would have tried turtle 2 base and going for Viking/BC.

  • @ZackeroniAndCheese
    @ZackeroniAndCheese Місяць тому

    First time finding your channel. I only know some StarCraft from LS, Grubby, and Day9 videos. I find your video very entertaining

  • @balua9
    @balua9 Місяць тому

    Next challenge - how high of a level player could you beat when they have infinite gas and minerals?

  • @Framidan
    @Framidan 2 місяці тому

    In the first game I was expecting VR, because it is a pretty common cheese at that MMR, very strong if not scouted properly.

  • @RuneKatashima
    @RuneKatashima 4 години тому

    I think I could take more games for Harstem and I haven't played in like 7+ years (middle of HotS I stopped), on the same rules. I thought 3k was better, but he felt *really* low elo. So I went to go look it up and it's between plat 1 and diamond 3. I don't even remember if we had numbers back when I played. I think the quality of players back then was better. My Elo would have been considered diamond 1.
    I only say this because I continue to watch Starcraft games of mid-ELO and the quality just seems really bad. 3k feels like old Gold to me. And I'm a creaky old 35 year old now.
    Anyway, was fun to watch Harstem! Thanks for picking it up and not mocking the guy.

  • @growtocycle6992
    @growtocycle6992 2 місяці тому

    100 sentries. Hallucinate 100 sentries.
    That would be an interesting strat, considering harstem didn't build splash

  • @Yura135
    @Yura135 2 місяці тому

    this was really fun to watch!

  • @alexsappington1587
    @alexsappington1587 Місяць тому

    Yes!! I was hoping youd do this

  • @KKKuma
    @KKKuma 2 місяці тому

    I knew it would be void ray in the first game. They are fast to build for how much their mineral cost and also flying and can deal with building

  • @Exit_zero
    @Exit_zero 2 місяці тому +7

    I bet that guy was so happy after that first game

    • @shen_zhuoran
      @shen_zhuoran 2 місяці тому +8

      Yes I was.😆

    • @xnephysisthere
      @xnephysisthere 2 місяці тому +1

      @@shen_zhuoran Duuuuuude just imagine if you ended game 2, you would be playing up against Harstem's buddies next. You could of been going places with this man

  • @PuppyM0dr
    @PuppyM0dr Місяць тому

    "ill go stargate because new players have trouble dealing with air" *dies to air rush* chefs kiss

  • @auzor5900
    @auzor5900 2 місяці тому

    Wouldn't it be even better for Zerg or Terran?
    Zerg: each gas geiser not needed, saves a drone.
    Full mineral rush, but you actually have gas for whatever; upgrades, roaches, mutas,...
    less drones needed means more supply for zerglings/army.
    Terran: ah yes. Mules + infinite gas. truly a fair and balanced situation.
    Could actually go full army once there's enough bases to keep dropping mules XD

  • @slouch186
    @slouch186 Місяць тому

    as someone who has no clue at all how starcraft works, what any of the strategies are, or what any of the lingo means - i think i would enjoy a version of this video idea that explains what is going on in a style that noobs would understand

  • @sludgyblack1
    @sludgyblack1 2 місяці тому

    This was stupid from the start but then you loaded up SC2 and I died laughing.

  • @BlitkriegsAndCoffee
    @BlitkriegsAndCoffee 2 місяці тому

    To add to the money saved by not building Assimilators comment, you also don't need probes to mine the gas, so your mineral income is also boosted, or your tech is again that much faster.

  • @KoaFidCZ
    @KoaFidCZ Місяць тому

    you should target corruptors as they arrived, since the puke damage increases over time

  • @bemperor
    @bemperor Місяць тому

    3:19 He is not building any units
    3:23 He is not proxing anything
    3:34 WHAT THE HELL?

  • @joshuajohnson714
    @joshuajohnson714 2 місяці тому

    This is a fun series

  • @jarrakul
    @jarrakul 2 місяці тому

    Honestly impressive showing by our fake Flash here. Would've loved to see a redo of that first game, though. Like, is there actually good counter to gasless proxy void rays? Inquiring minds want to know.

  • @seri-ously8591
    @seri-ously8591 2 місяці тому

    It's pretty understandable Harstem underestimated the challenge and forgot about how much mineral you can save initially not investing into gas expansions. Since it's not only the gas but also the worker/time needed to saturate those gases, which is extra mineral and seconds you take off for yourself.
    If you think about the unlimited gas perk being just a pure mineral build (which can usually lead to faster tech/army), then I think Harstem would've been even more cautious in the first game.

  • @SaltyNard
    @SaltyNard 2 місяці тому

    saves 6 workers on gas + 2 assimilators, x3 for the natural and third. That's 900 minerals in workers alone, straight to void rays. Minerals get saturated faster, less pylons needed for them, even more minerals banked. Yeah if his build order resembles something made by a semi-sentient human being, it's almost impossible to win, that's a massive lead.

  • @PTfan54
    @PTfan54 2 місяці тому

    "Shadow of the Peeing" was one of my favourite PS2 games.

  • @Jokervision744
    @Jokervision744 15 днів тому

    I don't know anything about SC and this was entertaining.

  • @TheFRealBoggieMan
    @TheFRealBoggieMan Місяць тому

    Why did the guy never do mass gateway archons? High templar are 50 minerals for him.
    For a 100 mineral unit, archons are pretty fricken good.

  • @afxlin
    @afxlin 2 місяці тому +2

    Of course it is void ray .. void ray is the definition of 3K protoss

  • @orangesouls7112
    @orangesouls7112 2 місяці тому

    Not sure if trying to end things quickly is the way every time or if dragging it out a bit longer may have gone better. Possibly if they tried to contain through the better, faster tech instead of hoping to smash through with it every time?

  • @martinprince8253
    @martinprince8253 2 місяці тому +4

    After 2 minutes I’m already two minutes in.
    Crayzy

  • @Azeur
    @Azeur 2 місяці тому

    Feel the infinite gas advantage disappears the longer the match goes on. So the 3rd match needed some earlier attacks, way too late when Harstem is already at 3 bases.

    • @DizzerJoz
      @DizzerJoz 2 місяці тому +1

      The advantage actually becomes bigger, but the disadvantages of being less good than Harstem become bigger even quicker