A couple of things for Marth mains to consider: 1. Falco and Fox weights are different enough that you will have to practice chaingrabbing them both equally. 2. During the pivot grab, you can do an option-select JC grab, look up Kadano's guide. Basically, if you miss the pivot, you get a JC grab, which works sometimes. 3. ua-cam.com/video/YGECvQgTkV8/v-deo.htmlm3s: DruggedFox vs. Leffen is a good example of what happens to superb DI on the forward smash. This is why it is important to mix it up, and push them towards the edge sooner. 4. If you want to d-throw for a mixup, buffer it with C-stick, which will result in a frame perfect d-throw. At low percents, u-throw d-throw jab reset can work, which allows you to avoid some of the more difficult percent thresholds. 5. Pay attention to your opponents mash. If they lazily mash, intersperse pummels into the chaingrab for free percent.
+Brandon Hatfield When he says "option select" he means that you input a JC grab during the pivot window, that way if you miss the pivot you don't just end up dash grabbing.
About the upthrow to uptilt there is one thing to consider, sometimes you have to move sligthly closer to fox/falco to hit him. I know it doesnt seem like a big deal, but a lot of people may just go for the uptilt and miss it
Something else to be aware of is a Falco player also knows about the no chain grab at zero and so he might try to DI away and buffer roll in case of f throw. Sometimes it is the best option to up throw anyways because if he DIs out you could still follow up.
I found out yesterday that against Fox at 0%, you actually do NOT want to jump cancel Marth's grabs for the regrabs when they DI behind you. The added frames from doing the jump cancel mess up the tight timing to turn around and get the regrab. As soon as I labbed this out with a friend and found out this was a mistake, it was not only easier for me to turn around, but to also get the regrab. I'd have to play around with it more in develop mode in 20XX to see if it was an issue with slow jump cancel timings or what, but all I know is the chaingrabs at 0% got much more manageable when they DI behind and I don't jump cancel the grab.
:/ One thing I would add Kira is that Marth is one of the few characters that can utilize running grab in some instances. His running grab also grabs behind him which can help in some chain grabs if you're boost grabbing at lower percentages where you can catch behind or forward with boost grabs and pivot boost grabs which are super easy since you just dash dance into dash attack. It's a legitimate option for lower percents if you want something with less reaction and an easier window. Overall you may find it more consistent and get better rewards from it. Also, a lot of people confuse the distance traveled into your grab vs true priority. It should be stated that dash grabs and jump cancelled grabs may reach just as far in distance traveled into a successful grab, but it doesn't mean that the hitbox and hurtbox isn't more or less disjointed. The difference between the two should always be factored into a matchup. You have to know your character and whether the risk/reward might be worth considering in order to outrange or grab through an opponent's attack without needing as precise a window (aka a hard read on their timing and attack). And this is a portion of the Meta which I feel has not been thoroughly explored or investigated, as most players just mindlessly JC grab in every situation. I wouldn't mind a video that explains these nuance differences, along with other things. Such as if you pivot and use C-Stick you never risk dash attack, but if you pivot attack with the A button, you can cancel dash attacks into grabs which for some characters can pretty much be universally better than them whiffing a dash attack, or even hitting with dash attack vs getting a grab. The option select just perform your Pivot F-smash for example, and follow the A button with the Z button in a pinching motion. It's simple and you'll never get dash attacks (which are way more vulnerable than with less payoff than a running grab).
super helpful tutorial! the day after i watched this, i won a set with the 55% up throw tipper thing. praise kira for helping me to win sets onstream. you da man
'The green stand-still color in particular, helps you know just how fast you can move after your up-throw' There's a disclaimer in the 20XX thread OP that says this situation specifically doesn't work. Other than that, nice vid.
I just wanted to make a suggestion for a video... BTW i love these videos please keep them coming... I was hoping to maybe see a recovery video pretty much showing how to recover from the edge properly and maybe some techniques to recovering that at character specific (i.e. samus and other) thanks for your time and effort with these videos!!!
if your feeling really swaggy when they neutral or slight di at moderate to high percent and your back is to the ledge do a backwards hitbox of fair ken combo, drop your controller and walk out the room.
Voting for IC handoffs. Incredibly useful tech that opens up tons of more options out of grab other than wobbling. Also, when newer players try to learn the character, it is overlooked a lot of the time. Also, ICs need some love on the channel!
I wouldn't mind a Pikachu video, Marth neutral game, (Nominate?) Young Link tutorial, Amsah tech, or invincible ledgedash video. Thanks for all the tutorials and stuff. :)
so im trying this vs 4.05 20XX fox and i keep getting shined out when the fox does no DI. any tips? im trying to do the pivot but i still get shined sometimes
You forgot a few things. At 39% on Fox you can upthrow to pivot tip fsmash for an early early gimp that very few people see coming. If they DI away, they're dead as long as you don't drop the edgeguard. It should also probably be explained how valuable pummels can be by unstaling your moves. Pummels from Marth are like lasers from Fox except if your opponent uses the control stick to mash and you upthrow their bad mash DI, that can be certain doom.
Allmywhat There are a lot of nuances I didn't include for the sake of clarity. I don't want to confuse people and this stuff works against 90% of the playerbase anyway. I will add more options in more specific matchup videos though, so thank you for your input.
SSBM Tutorials Perhaps you could make a video explaining staling moves and why pummeling, lasers, etc are so great. Leffen made a somewhat crappy video explaining why Fox lasers are so great for this reason.
Fox/Falco ledge options has my vote Also when it says "Falco Edgeguarding tutorial" is that Falco Edgeguarding other characters, or other characters edgeguarding Falco?
They can escape the f-throw with DI out and away and buffer roll or whatever, you should have went into what high level players do instead sometimes with like other throw (D-throw?) into tech-chase or something: which you kind of covered in the end I guess
Does anyone know if there are any threads/guides/resources about marth's WEAK forward-air and up-air hitboxes? I think that the tip of the sword is the 'strong' hit whereas the base is the 'weak' hit , but I remember hearing that the strong hit of fair sends them upwards and the weak hit doesn't move them much at all...?
+Sean H That is correct. You want to do weak moves when they are at high percent but you want to continue the combo. For example if Fox is at ~80%, a tipper Fair will send him too high to combo, but a weak Fair might lead into another hit
Cool! Does Up-air have any of these weak hitboxes as well? Uair confuses me much more because some parts of it (like the back of the swing) seem to send the opponent upwards, which is nice, but sometimes it just sends them sideways which is super annoying because I am never prepared to follow that up. Do you know how those Uair trajectories work?
Upair sends them up, if they DI well they will be sent mroe sideways. Same with Fair, if they are super high percent you can use a weak upair to combo into something else
+Kivvx don't press the shield button all the way so that it clicks that way when you want to WD OoS you can quickly jump and then press it all the way down so that it clicks. I hope that made sense and good luck!
+incronaut DI Away and Buffer spot dodge (hold R+C-stick down) while landing. If Marth whiffs you can shine oos into stuff I'm pretty sure on time. I know Fox can at least.
Is it sometimes necessary to pivot grab after the uptilt around 30%? It seems tricky to get sometimes. Also, at what percent does regrabbing the DI away stop working?
Hey, I don't know if it's just me, but I noticed if I jump-cancel grab in the middle of my turn around animation, it cancels the turn around animation and I stay facing in the direction I started.
SSBM Tutorials Yeah, just seemed like a neat, technical note. That actually tripped me up the first time I watched this video/practiced chaingrabs. (o:
what do you do if you're playing as marth and grab someone with you're back to the stage, is it better to down throw them or back throw them or can it depend on the character/reading di?
+Barsee23 for the most part down throw is going to be better, down throw should send them farther off stage and at low percents can often lead to a quick gimp
+SSBM Tutorials back throw dolphin slash > Back throw F Smash because the tipper dolphin slash is about as powerful as tipper f smash. It goes with out saying that that's better than back throw into weak hit F Smash. See here: gfycat.com/SourTenseDanishswedishfarmdog Edit: This only works on fox at ~134%+ and on falco at maybe ~145% (?) I don't know for sure with falco since I don't try it as much against him, but I do it to fox all the time.
+Arashi Kariudo +Barsee23 What I like to do is mix up back throw and down throw because if the DI in, the Dolphin Slash connects, and if they don't DI (or even DI away for some reason, but a good player wouldn't do that I guess) then it sets up for an edge guard more effectively. In short, it's yet another RPS situation within the game.
So is there anything I can do as Fox in that situation (besides hoping for my opponent to mess up)? Or is this pretty much a lost stock if my opponent is somewhat decent? And yes I know, "don't get grabbed". But it's not like it's that easy with Marth's grab range. I'd rather be rested and die in a single hit than watch my character get thrown for half a minute straight as if I can just put my controller down and get a drink like when someone would wobble me.
Evilknightz Yeah I thought about learning chaingrabbing with Marth just so I can find out what parts are hard and how to counter it. It's mostly because of top level play videos I've seen where somone gets chaingrabbed and loses a full stock.
@SSBM Tutorials Im trying to do the chaingrab at low percents but i cant get it when i have to turn around, but i can get it at high percents. Any help or tips?
On Falco at 0% if he DI's behind you, you cannot cg him. Other than that you have to be sure you're turning around AND grabbing as fast as possible. I just hold backwards and he'll turn around as soon as he can. After that it is just pressing Z soon enough
So can nothing be done about escaping Marth's chaingrabs? I main Fox and my crafty fellow Marth friend main has started relying a lot of chaingrabs when i'm on a new stock and it's extremely infuriating of a combo. But by the looks of this until I hit 20% I just can't DI enough to 2nd jump out of it or what not. Any confirmation on your tricks to escape teh grips of morth?
Technically if they are perfect you cannot escape, however if you do slight DI behind them (so it is ambiguous whether you are in front or behind them), and shine or double jump as soon as possible you can get out a lot of the time. it's very difficult to actually pull of chaingrabbing perfectly against a good player
Aight so i'll have to practice. I'm sure there's a way for me to setup 20XX to do this so I can learn and stop feeding my friend an early game juggle everytime I come back on a fresh stock, it's so frustrating lol. Any chance this could be a suggestion for a future video? I'm sure more than a few would enjoy learning more 20XX setup stuff ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
there is not a way really, just do very slight DI behind him. if he starts turning around to get it then switch between slight DI and no DI and he'll have to guess until he can uptilt around 30% or so
+AuronGoldfire If fox/falco DI slightly behind during marth's upthrow at the %s mentioned in the video, marth cannot grab them from where he is standing regardless of what direction he is facing. the pivot grab repositions marth slightly to make the grab possible.
you can actually. but you forward/downthrow instead of up throw. at low percent Marth can forward throw Sheik a few times but she may DI down and spotdodge. It is easy to react to bad DI though. most people forward throw downtilt. also, when you fthrow sheik and then wavedash, run, whatever in front of her you are actually standing at perfect tipper range if she rolls instage. so if she techs inward, free fsmash in that direction. just to make it clear, this is a reaction chain grab. You have to follow sheik and wait for her to do things then once she's in a bad position, you fsmash or downtilt her.
First of all Sheik should DI away, not down to escape the fthrow regrab. Secondly it depends on your wavedash distance, there are a lot of different distances and if you do a full wavedash then you won't be in tipper range. Thirdly it's technically not a "chain grab". What you are describing is called tech chasing.
BX isAWOL Just use upthrow > uptilt > upair combos and keep her juggled in the air. If she double jumps it's okay, just stay under her and keep using upair so she can't get back down.
So uhh, I really 20xx, but I'm really bad at computer things... Do you think you could help me? For instance, I'm not sure how to get a disk image to check which game iOS I have. Thank you!
Any tips where to find a good controller ? I want to train on Melee on my free time but my gamecube controller is dead and I can't seem to find a reliable seller as I can't get shipped the Classic Smash controller in my country (France) and the cheapest I found were really expensive.
Neveroften Lear 30$ brand new from gamestop. Don't buy offbrand GC controllers though, please. They're known to not only be utter shit, but they also are known to start fires or even shock people
Allmywhat Sadly the french equivalent of Gamestop, Micromania, sells lower quality products for expensive prices... Thanks for the warning on the offbrand though :)
+SSBM Tutorials so there is no benifit at all to using boost grabs? if JC grabs are quicker AND they cut out the end lag, why would we ever learn boost grabs? theyre not faster for certian characters? i thought boost grabs were good for shiek sometimes.
+SSBM Tutorials thanks. also I don't know if there's a vid for this already but maybe make a di/smash di vid. not how to do it, but like how should marth di falcon down throw and is it different than fox diing falcon down throw.
In tournament you can usually listen for if people are mashing or not. During chain-grabs, most people do not mash, so you can usually get 1-2 pummels. If the person is mashing, then I would just opt not to pummel until over 30%.
fox and falco yes, but peach no. she requires little tech skill compared to characters like the spacies, icies, falcon, samus, etc. she is just unique with her float.
racerX5100 Apparently pivots are a bit easier in Project M so that helps with learning the chaingrab faster. Also, I think they changed a few things with grabs in PM, however, the grabs against spacies were intentionally made to be as close to Melee as possible. So this SHOULD work for you unless there are subtle differences with PM that I don't know about. The only thing that might be different are percentages to start doing certain things. Also, remember if you want to chaingrab Wolf, he's actually a faster faller than Fox and Falco so your percents will be different for him too. Hope this helps and good luck! :)
+Mr. Meow You can't if they are perfect, the best way to escape is to DI slightly behind them (so it looks like it's no DI but they actually have to turn around or pivot), then shine asap
helpful tip: when doing the turnaround grabs between 0 to 17%, don't do jc grabs.
Frame counter with setting the value to "stand" also shows you EXACTLY how many frames until you start moving from your uthrow
I vote "How to commentate a match featuring one or more Nesses"
Simna ibn Sind ft. JimJamFlimFlam
+SSBM Tutorials how can i fight 20xx cpus
get 20XX?
a tip: you can watch series at Flixzone. I've been using them for watching all kinds of movies lately.
@Gannon Grant yea, been watching on Flixzone} for months myself :)
A couple of things for Marth mains to consider:
1. Falco and Fox weights are different enough that you will have to practice chaingrabbing them both equally.
2. During the pivot grab, you can do an option-select JC grab, look up Kadano's guide. Basically, if you miss the pivot, you get a JC grab, which works sometimes.
3. ua-cam.com/video/YGECvQgTkV8/v-deo.htmlm3s: DruggedFox vs. Leffen is a good example of what happens to superb DI on the forward smash. This is why it is important to mix it up, and push them towards the edge sooner.
4. If you want to d-throw for a mixup, buffer it with C-stick, which will result in a frame perfect d-throw. At low percents, u-throw d-throw jab reset can work, which allows you to avoid some of the more difficult percent thresholds.
5. Pay attention to your opponents mash. If they lazily mash, intersperse pummels into the chaingrab for free percent.
+Kyle Meyers 4 is godlike for getting past round one at locals
Kyle Meyers 2. is worse than just pivoting.
Brandon Hatfield obviously, but it's for if you miss. it might still work
+Brandon Hatfield When he says "option select" he means that you input a JC grab during the pivot window, that way if you miss the pivot you don't just end up dash grabbing.
Arashi Kariudo I'm aware. Even if you do a pivot grab perfectly, the JC overwrites the pivot grab and is slower framewise.
About the upthrow to uptilt there is one thing to consider, sometimes you have to move sligthly closer to fox/falco to hit him. I know it doesnt seem like a big deal, but a lot of people may just go for the uptilt and miss it
This is by far the best video tutorial of this I have seen. Thanks for the effort put into it.
always satisfying to see chain throw combos from m2k's marth lol. good stuff guys.
Something else to be aware of is a Falco player also knows about the no chain grab at zero and so he might try to DI away and buffer roll in case of f throw. Sometimes it is the best option to up throw anyways because if he DIs out you could still follow up.
I found out yesterday that against Fox at 0%, you actually do NOT want to jump cancel Marth's grabs for the regrabs when they DI behind you. The added frames from doing the jump cancel mess up the tight timing to turn around and get the regrab. As soon as I labbed this out with a friend and found out this was a mistake, it was not only easier for me to turn around, but to also get the regrab. I'd have to play around with it more in develop mode in 20XX to see if it was an issue with slow jump cancel timings or what, but all I know is the chaingrabs at 0% got much more manageable when they DI behind and I don't jump cancel the grab.
When he says JC all grabs he means all dash grabs. Obviously the standing ones don't need to be Jump canceled
Yeah, I was having the same issue with trying to turnaround JC grab. Good to know I just need to regular grab.
:/ One thing I would add Kira is that Marth is one of the few characters that can utilize running grab in some instances. His running grab also grabs behind him which can help in some chain grabs if you're boost grabbing at lower percentages where you can catch behind or forward with boost grabs and pivot boost grabs which are super easy since you just dash dance into dash attack. It's a legitimate option for lower percents if you want something with less reaction and an easier window. Overall you may find it more consistent and get better rewards from it.
Also, a lot of people confuse the distance traveled into your grab vs true priority. It should be stated that dash grabs and jump cancelled grabs may reach just as far in distance traveled into a successful grab, but it doesn't mean that the hitbox and hurtbox isn't more or less disjointed. The difference between the two should always be factored into a matchup. You have to know your character and whether the risk/reward might be worth considering in order to outrange or grab through an opponent's attack without needing as precise a window (aka a hard read on their timing and attack). And this is a portion of the Meta which I feel has not been thoroughly explored or investigated, as most players just mindlessly JC grab in every situation.
I wouldn't mind a video that explains these nuance differences, along with other things. Such as if you pivot and use C-Stick you never risk dash attack, but if you pivot attack with the A button, you can cancel dash attacks into grabs which for some characters can pretty much be universally better than them whiffing a dash attack, or even hitting with dash attack vs getting a grab. The option select just perform your Pivot F-smash for example, and follow the A button with the Z button in a pinching motion. It's simple and you'll never get dash attacks (which are way more vulnerable than with less payoff than a running grab).
Marth's grab is so disjointed it's hilarious
super helpful tutorial! the day after i watched this, i won a set with the 55% up throw tipper thing. praise kira for helping me to win sets onstream. you da man
thanks dave this filled in what i didnt know about in chain grabs
1:35 don't you love it when marth floats in midair just to fuck with you?
'The green stand-still color in particular, helps you know just how fast you can move after your up-throw'
There's a disclaimer in the 20XX thread OP that says this situation specifically doesn't work.
Other than that, nice vid.
when to triple shine grab
stabbedbyahippie rarely tbh
@@r0flcopter mm me i can dew it 10 times in a row without failing
@@johnnycrash4892 lmao
I just wanted to make a suggestion for a video... BTW i love these videos please keep them coming... I was hoping to maybe see a recovery video pretty much showing how to recover from the edge properly and maybe some techniques to recovering that at character specific (i.e. samus and other) thanks for your time and effort with these videos!!!
Andy Zarbo Thank you for the kind words, we will get to that and everything else I promise
Chain grabbing with Mewtwo is so fun. I tried it out on a Lv 1 Mario. Holy crap. Really fun.
if your feeling really swaggy when they neutral or slight di at moderate to high percent and your back is to the ledge do a backwards hitbox of fair ken combo, drop your controller and walk out the room.
+Ace shinigami btw +Barsee23 ^this^ is what you should do
like 80% right?
Voting for IC handoffs. Incredibly useful tech that opens up tons of more options out of grab other than wobbling. Also, when newer players try to learn the character, it is overlooked a lot of the time.
Also, ICs need some love on the channel!
ForsakenPeanut We've been talking to Fly Amanita but he hasn't delivered yet. Tweet to him!
I wouldn't mind a Pikachu video, Marth neutral game, (Nominate?) Young Link tutorial, Amsah tech, or invincible ledgedash video.
Thanks for all the tutorials and stuff. :)
so im trying this vs 4.05 20XX fox and i keep getting shined out when the fox does no DI. any tips?
im trying to do the pivot but i still get shined sometimes
+HKSpades grab earlier or pivot around the shine
+SSBM Tutorials thanks for the reply! at what percent can fox dj out of the chain grab?
I don't know, really late if Marth does it frame perfect. Like past 40% I believe. There are threads on smashboards that show it somewhere
You forgot a few things. At 39% on Fox you can upthrow to pivot tip fsmash for an early early gimp that very few people see coming. If they DI away, they're dead as long as you don't drop the edgeguard. It should also probably be explained how valuable pummels can be by unstaling your moves. Pummels from Marth are like lasers from Fox except if your opponent uses the control stick to mash and you upthrow their bad mash DI, that can be certain doom.
Allmywhat There are a lot of nuances I didn't include for the sake of clarity. I don't want to confuse people and this stuff works against 90% of the playerbase anyway. I will add more options in more specific matchup videos though, so thank you for your input.
SSBM Tutorials Yeah the pivot may be unnecessary, but I feel like the pummel is so basic and unknown by even some veterans that it should be noted.
SSBM Tutorials Perhaps you could make a video explaining staling moves and why pummeling, lasers, etc are so great. Leffen made a somewhat crappy video explaining why Fox lasers are so great for this reason.
lol m2k
hi
+lol m2leffen o god not m2leffen
Fox/Falco ledge options has my vote
Also when it says "Falco Edgeguarding tutorial" is that Falco Edgeguarding other characters, or other characters edgeguarding Falco?
kadajoctavius Falco edgeguarding other characters. Thank you for your vote
They can escape the f-throw with DI out and away and buffer roll or whatever, you should have went into what high level players do instead sometimes with like other throw (D-throw?) into tech-chase or something: which you kind of covered in the end I guess
+PMDepot I believe you can still regrab at higher percents.
Thank you. :) I requested that!
Good stuff kira!
Does anyone know if there are any threads/guides/resources about marth's WEAK forward-air and up-air hitboxes? I think that the tip of the sword is the 'strong' hit whereas the base is the 'weak' hit , but I remember hearing that the strong hit of fair sends them upwards and the weak hit doesn't move them much at all...?
+Sean H That is correct. You want to do weak moves when they are at high percent but you want to continue the combo. For example if Fox is at ~80%, a tipper Fair will send him too high to combo, but a weak Fair might lead into another hit
Cool! Does Up-air have any of these weak hitboxes as well? Uair confuses me much more because some parts of it (like the back of the swing) seem to send the opponent upwards, which is nice, but sometimes it just sends them sideways which is super annoying because I am never prepared to follow that up. Do you know how those Uair trajectories work?
Upair sends them up, if they DI well they will be sent mroe sideways. Same with Fair, if they are super high percent you can use a weak upair to combo into something else
Thanks a whole bunch for answering my questions Kira! I can't believe I forgot about DI.... yeah I guess I have more to practice.
How do you grab and send people upward with marth?
8 people are fox mains who got chaingrabbed by marth at a local
this with a good grasp on the 'neutral' vs falco and you're set
i wish i was good :')
+Kivvx I don't know if this is of any help but when I learned how to WD OoS it improved my vs falco tons :p
that's what i'm currently trying to work on. i'm sure it makes that match-up less stressful for marth
+Kivvx don't press the shield button all the way so that it clicks that way when you want to WD OoS you can quickly jump and then press it all the way down so that it clicks. I hope that made sense and good luck!
Fun fact: Cpt.Falcons dash grab is slightly longer than Marth
As Falco, what do you do against forward throw at low percents if you know it's coming?
DI away from Marth.
+incronaut DI Away and Buffer spot dodge (hold R+C-stick down) while landing. If Marth whiffs you can shine oos into stuff I'm pretty sure on time. I know Fox can at least.
Marth vs falco match up has my vote
don't jump cancel standing or pivot grabs, they are already standing grabs so you are just adding jumpsquat frames for no reason
You should cover the chaingrab Ganondorf has on Spacies
Orbrun It's unreactable though.
Can the fox/falco DI to alternating sides as he falls to mix up whether the marth has to turn around or not?
+Mutant2Keen Yeah he can, but you can do that with the ambiguous DI except it's harder to tell which side he's on. So it's just better to do ambiguous
Is it sometimes necessary to pivot grab after the uptilt around 30%? It seems tricky to get sometimes.
Also, at what percent does regrabbing the DI away stop working?
sometimes yeah depending on their DI and what part of the uptilt you hit with. regrabbing DI away works until like 60 maybe? i honestly dont know
+SSBM Tutorials OK, thanks. it's really nice that you reply to comments quickly like this! Probably one of the best things about this channel.
Hey I'm having a hard time upairing fast enough after the upthrow, any advice?
Can't Fox shine out around 20-30% if you don't pivot grab? (see: DF vs Leffen)
This is a great video! Thanks!
I want to be a pichu how do you become one
Sean Thipphavong Extreme plastic surgery
Can you make a video about how to chaingrab with Peach?
Hey, I don't know if it's just me, but I noticed if I jump-cancel grab in the middle of my turn around animation, it cancels the turn around animation and I stay facing in the direction I started.
yes sir, but if you dont jump cancel it then its fine
SSBM Tutorials Yeah, just seemed like a neat, technical note. That actually tripped me up the first time I watched this video/practiced chaingrabs. (o:
Use pivot grabs? As in grabbing in the one frame you're standing while DDing??
well you can jump cancel it to make it easier. even if it's not a true pivot it can usually work if you're fast enough
+SSBM Tutorials do you have a video that can help me with learning that? Sorry for being helpless haha
just dash one way, dash back towards them and jc grab as fast as u can
what do you do if you're playing as marth and grab someone with you're back to the stage, is it better to down throw them or back throw them or can it depend on the character/reading di?
back to the edge*
Barsee23 At high percents, if they DI towards the stage you can backthrow > Fsmash. Otherwise downthrow sends them further off the stage.
+Barsee23 for the most part down throw is going to be better, down throw should send them farther off stage and at low percents can often lead to a quick gimp
+SSBM Tutorials back throw dolphin slash > Back throw F Smash because the tipper dolphin slash is about as powerful as tipper f smash. It goes with out saying that that's better than back throw into weak hit F Smash. See here: gfycat.com/SourTenseDanishswedishfarmdog
Edit: This only works on fox at ~134%+ and on falco at maybe ~145% (?) I don't know for sure with falco since I don't try it as much against him, but I do it to fox all the time.
+Arashi Kariudo +Barsee23 What I like to do is mix up back throw and down throw because if the DI in, the Dolphin Slash connects, and if they don't DI (or even DI away for some reason, but a good player wouldn't do that I guess) then it sets up for an edge guard more effectively. In short, it's yet another RPS situation within the game.
So is there anything I can do as Fox in that situation (besides hoping for my opponent to mess up)? Or is this pretty much a lost stock if my opponent is somewhat decent?
And yes I know, "don't get grabbed". But it's not like it's that easy with Marth's grab range. I'd rather be rested and die in a single hit than watch my character get thrown for half a minute straight as if I can just put my controller down and get a drink like when someone would wobble me.
read recent comments i've answered this. you underestimate how difficult it is for a marth to actually do this it's a 1 frame performance sometimes
Go practice this on FD against a player doing random DI. This shit is really hard.
Evilknightz Yeah I thought about learning chaingrabbing with Marth just so I can find out what parts are hard and how to counter it. It's mostly because of top level play videos I've seen where somone gets chaingrabbed and loses a full stock.
@SSBM Tutorials Im trying to do the chaingrab at low percents but i cant get it when i have to turn around, but i can get it at high percents. Any help or tips?
On Falco at 0% if he DI's behind you, you cannot cg him.
Other than that you have to be sure you're turning around AND grabbing as fast as possible. I just hold backwards and he'll turn around as soon as he can. After that it is just pressing Z soon enough
Alright thanks!
Wait for the chaingrab when they are behind u can u not jc grab? it only works when i dont
you dont have to JC, you just turn around and standing grab
So can nothing be done about escaping Marth's chaingrabs? I main Fox and my crafty fellow Marth friend main has started relying a lot of chaingrabs when i'm on a new stock and it's extremely infuriating of a combo. But by the looks of this until I hit 20% I just can't DI enough to 2nd jump out of it or what not. Any confirmation on your tricks to escape teh grips of morth?
Technically if they are perfect you cannot escape, however if you do slight DI behind them (so it is ambiguous whether you are in front or behind them), and shine or double jump as soon as possible you can get out a lot of the time. it's very difficult to actually pull of chaingrabbing perfectly against a good player
Aight so i'll have to practice. I'm sure there's a way for me to setup 20XX to do this so I can learn and stop feeding my friend an early game juggle everytime I come back on a fresh stock, it's so frustrating lol. Any chance this could be a suggestion for a future video? I'm sure more than a few would enjoy learning more 20XX setup stuff ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
there is not a way really, just do very slight DI behind him. if he starts turning around to get it then switch between slight DI and no DI and he'll have to guess until he can uptilt around 30% or so
I have one question. What is the exact use of pivot grab in this case?
+AuronGoldfire If fox/falco DI slightly behind during marth's upthrow at the %s mentioned in the video, marth cannot grab them from where he is standing regardless of what direction he is facing. the pivot grab repositions marth slightly to make the grab possible.
nick chaput Thanks. :)
ha... "throw" them off guard
why do i struggle so much with this
Any tips on chain grabing a Sheik w/Marth?
BX isAWOL You cannot.
Well that explains a lot hahaha. I'm still learning the game.
you can actually. but you forward/downthrow instead of up throw.
at low percent Marth can forward throw Sheik a few times but she may DI down and spotdodge. It is easy to react to bad DI though. most people forward throw downtilt.
also, when you fthrow sheik and then wavedash, run, whatever in front of her you are actually standing at perfect tipper range if she rolls instage. so if she techs inward, free fsmash in that direction.
just to make it clear, this is a reaction chain grab. You have to follow sheik and wait for her to do things then once she's in a bad position, you fsmash or downtilt her.
First of all Sheik should DI away, not down to escape the fthrow regrab.
Secondly it depends on your wavedash distance, there are a lot of different distances and if you do a full wavedash then you won't be in tipper range.
Thirdly it's technically not a "chain grab". What you are describing is called tech chasing.
BX isAWOL Just use upthrow > uptilt > upair combos and keep her juggled in the air. If she double jumps it's okay, just stay under her and keep using upair so she can't get back down.
When you use up ate with marth in juggles do you use c stick or up A
+jorge nunez doesn't matter
jorge nunez I use C-stick so I can drift forwards or backwards and start my fastfall at any time.
jorge nunez Whatever is more comfortable
Sheik Needle Guide please!
So uhh, I really 20xx, but I'm really bad at computer things... Do you think you could help me? For instance, I'm not sure how to get a disk image to check which game iOS I have. Thank you!
+ninjapanda I have a mac and I haven't been able to successfully set up yet either
Ace shinigami I use a mac and getting 20XX was a total breeze.
Any tips where to find a good controller ? I want to train on Melee on my free time but my gamecube controller is dead and I can't seem to find a reliable seller as I can't get shipped the Classic Smash controller in my country (France) and the cheapest I found were really expensive.
Neveroften Lear 30$ brand new from gamestop. Don't buy offbrand GC controllers though, please. They're known to not only be utter shit, but they also are known to start fires or even shock people
Allmywhat Sadly the french equivalent of Gamestop, Micromania, sells lower quality products for expensive prices... Thanks for the warning on the offbrand though :)
Neveroften Lear I usually get mine from Amazon, but for EU it might be different
SSBM Tutorials Yeah, NA friends adviced me to get a Classic SSBM one on Amazon but the law on hardware forbids shipping in France apparently :'(
Wow you can't ship video game accessories lol that's awful =(
Maybe something like ebay?
Can these techniques apply to Roy as well? Or is it completely different?
This is slightly different for Roy
thank you
Do jc grabs come out faster than dash grabs or is it just the endlag?
ThePharphis They come out faster too
SSBM Tutorials Is that universally true? Any idea how many frames faster?
+ThePharphis I think peach's dash grab and jc grab have the same start up, and a few other characters.... Probably Zelda or something...
+SSBM Tutorials so there is no benifit at all to using boost grabs? if JC grabs are quicker AND they cut out the end lag, why would we ever learn boost grabs? theyre not faster for certian characters? i thought boost grabs were good for shiek sometimes.
boost grabs are to reach further for like tech chases or people running away. not really for chaingrabs
Don't try to jump cancel pivot grabs, you'll end up dashing into Nair.
ScaryPurpleAmpersand This is not true
ScaryPurpleAmpersand only if ur bad
No need to be mean SoySauS
+ScaryPurpleAmpersand and if you do that you'll end up dash attacking instead.
Ace shinigami n-nooo
Best vidéo on YT ;)
Can he chaingrab Falcon? I tried it out today and it seemed like he could.
no. maybe some extremely specific percent and DI but generally u cant
SSBM Tutorials ok thanks!
At what percents can I safely get pummels in and how many?
depends how hard they mash. usually around 30% its safe to get 1 pummel in tho
+SSBM Tutorials thanks. also I don't know if there's a vid for this already but maybe make a di/smash di vid. not how to do it, but like how should marth di falcon down throw and is it different than fox diing falcon down throw.
we have a smash di vid. normal di coming later
In tournament you can usually listen for if people are mashing or not. During chain-grabs, most people do not mash, so you can usually get 1-2 pummels. If the person is mashing, then I would just opt not to pummel until over 30%.
porque no se realiza con capitan falco en mas de 30%
You can do this with Roy too right?
its not exactly the same but yeah
do more peach content.she fox and Falco probably require the most amount of technical practice in all of melee.
fox and falco yes, but peach no. she requires little tech skill compared to characters like the spacies, icies, falcon, samus, etc. she is just unique with her float.
+Michael Cascione Don't forget Yoshi
Fox vs Peach matchup?
still waiting on the second peach video...
Cant they escape with shine at low percent?
+mundopivotwebs Not if you do it fast enough. But they can try to shine in case you mess up
i keep light shielding when i input grab
use z
France Chagnon is there any other grab button anyways?
Elijah Glick If you jump cancel you'll never get light sheild
I always tap Z and i never get a light shield.
does all these techniques work the same in project M
you might as well just give up on project m because nobody takes it seriously anymore
+the metapod people who play pm do lol
+the metapod That doesn't answer his question at all. Don't be stupid.
racerX5100 Apparently pivots are a bit easier in Project M so that helps with learning the chaingrab faster. Also, I think they changed a few things with grabs in PM, however, the grabs against spacies were intentionally made to be as close to Melee as possible. So this SHOULD work for you unless there are subtle differences with PM that I don't know about. The only thing that might be different are percentages to start doing certain things. Also, remember if you want to chaingrab Wolf, he's actually a faster faller than Fox and Falco so your percents will be different for him too. Hope this helps and good luck! :)
***** at least I'm not peter park. what a gay name
Advice for Game&Watch mains?
+thiscakeisFALSE Figure out how to combo really hard
watch Qerb/The Phenom/old school G&W pros (ken/bombsoldier/snap/etc)
holy cow people actually main G&W? i meant this as a joke...i'm sorry
You should do a video on how to get out of this.
+Mr. Meow You can't if they are perfect, the best way to escape is to DI slightly behind them (so it looks like it's no DI but they actually have to turn around or pivot), then shine asap
+SSBM Tutorials OMG someone actually replied to me! Thanks for the tip!
Fox neutral part two!
Nominate ICs neutral game
+Ness from Onett (grab) instant win ez
I hate fox he is too op thanks for tutorial
Thanks you so much
Mental game, sheik neutral Part 2!
lmao marth doesn't chain grab he goes around earth
Hey I need a guide on how to escape this bullshit, other than di behind at 0% (a concerned falco)
joseph ironwood Hey I need a guide on how to get around falco’s lasers (concerned marth)
Kira I could only chain grab up to around 20% and then I can't.
+Eduardo Aguilar Why is that, do you think?
+SSBM Tutorials Id say it's because I can't re grab on slight DI or DI behind.
are you doing it too early or too late? how do you input your regrab?
+SSBM Tutorials I usually grab as fast as possible once they're falling down.
you technically have to delay your grab 1-2 frames up until 30%
Nominate ICs grab game
I can’t fucking tell what type of DI fox is doing
Fox Neutral Game Part 2!!
Ledgea coming soon
+SSBM Tutorials that's not nearly as important as combining Jiggs as Falco..... pls...
Q tip You mean combo-ing? Watch PPMD vs Hbox =P Until our video comes out at least
How to edgeguard Sheik.
finalmember9 coming
I love you.
i used to think i was a cool kid because I do pivot fsmash when they di up at 55 xd
icyman02 That is pretty cool if you ask me =P
EXACT 100K VIEWER
Ledgedash
But that's just a theory....A MARTH THEORY
M2k disliked
How to westballz pressure ? ua-cam.com/video/dZBzLvAowb8/v-deo.html cant figure it out
+Jason Servera
1. Down B
2. Jump
3. Down B
4. Jump
5. Wavedash down
this was a super helpful guide :) love a gay atheist
most broken character in melee
Sheik Needle Tutorial pls!
still waiting on the second peach video...