Thiele/Small parameters explained - Tech Stuff Tuesday
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- Thiele/Small parameters might not be what you think they are, this video explains what they are and how they effect each other. Visit www.emfcaraudio.com for all your car audio equipment needs.
Very nice explanation. BL squared divided by the RE. Nice I didn't know that - Car Audio never gets boring to me. There is so so So Much to learn. Peace and Bass my friend.
Great info for a new leaner, especially someone wanting to build and upgrade their subwoofers. Maybe a vid on voice coils? What makes what, etc, like layer count, wire type, wire gauge, type of wind, etc and how they effect the sound/parameters. Would greatly help on deciding what kind of coil to use in a subwoofer wether replacing stock, upgrading it, or building from scratch.
First time i've learned these specs as in depth as this. I enjoy your educational videos
Rockville needs this video
0.8 to 1.5 QTS is amazing for open baffle/ infinite baffle setups. Check out the SQ guys in IASCA running TRUE open baffle/ infinite baffle setups. These guy can play a almost flat frequency curve from 100 HZ all the way down to 10-15 HZ
That's a big reason you see companies take subs out the box and apply huge power to them not broken in . their mechanical limits are higher as they get broke in they won't handle that power level anymore.. the mechanical limits drop a bunch. 20 years ago back before sub tech was up to the level it is now, you would burp subs at high power out the box few times and you had to change them as spiders and surrounds loosened up .. Just because you see someone put 10 to 15 k to a sub right out the box its misleading because it won't take it after there broke in not even for short burp . just like some subs in 4th or 6th order sound great.. when they get broke in completely, then not so much . but that's down the complete different road. that was a good simple way of explaining it to be understood .. Good job
The way we design and build subs is so they work optimally AFTER break in. Also, in the cases where we're putting say 15kw on it out of the box, it will still handle it after broken in. If it's good out of the box then breaks after a few burps, you have too much power for that box to begin with, or your frequency is wrong for tuning. But again, all of that is because we design for it and use high quality parts. That can't be said for everybody.
@@EMFAudio yep that's what I'm saying you got to design it to take the power or box to have the mechanical limits after break in .. Just saying some companies pull subs out the box and burp them at high power saying look at the power it can take but in reality that's only for few burps when sub gets broke in they can't do that it will be well pass its mechanical limits .
Thanks for taking the time to explain all this!
Thanks for the info
Thank You Sir !
Great video sir. I appreciate the education
Awesome video, thanks for doing it :)
I've been wanting to upgrade to two ZV5 15s, I have the power but thought I didn't have the space. Sundown only recommends a ported enclosure. QTS on dual 2s is .45. This is telling me sealed would work as well. I can do a 5.5 cu ft dual chamber enclosure. It's a long shot but I think I'm gonna go for it.
It would not be best to use them sealed, but they do work well in 4th order. Be sure to order from www.emfcaraudio.com
Xmech Xmax were looking at you soundqubed lol
we need the difference between a new built and after a hundred (200? 500?) hours of wear in. in the actual question of "breaking a sub in".
Add to that also the question answered (i have previously read an article on it) about mounting direction and the differences between the cone facing down or ahead. the mass changes the relative position of the voice coil in the gap (relative to the top plate).
Fresh, vs short term, vs long term will vary base on the quality of the spiders as well. I have subs that are 10+ years old with the same compliance they had even 5-6 years ago. I've also seen 1 year old subs that were very floppy and unstable that were quite stiff when fresh. If the mass of the sub is effecting coil position (suspension sag) I would consider that a poorly designed sub, or a poor quality suspension.
Gotta say there is something quite dissatisfying about the results of what you've shown us. If thiele/small parameters are not useful for characterizing a subwoofer then why are they still used? Your explanation of the parameters was great, but it left me with more questions than before, lol. Would love to see a follow up video or video series on your techniques for choosing a subwoofer and designing an enclosure for a given application since it doesn't seem to be as simple as putting it in WinISD and modeling it.
Parameters are useful, if you understand them and don't focus on 1 thing. I can look at the parameters and have a good idea of how it should be used without modeling anything (which in a car will come out wrong anyway).
Yes, what he said. Now I'm looking at thw wolfram au10imch subs and wondering if they'll sound as good as my soundqubes hds.3110 and will they be just as efficient with the power as the soundqubes are.
Excellent video. Lot of info... Thanks.
Real good and clear exponation.
Question…Some specs are listed differently. Example: Fo, FS, and FMS. Whats the difference?
Would LE be listed as something else?
Sorry if I sound like an idiot but I’m still learning.
Will the fs always drop after breaking in the sub? I hear it should drop down 15-20%
What would you say about that?
Nice after viewing these i feel like i can almost make my own sub thanks
There is waaaay more to it for that to go well in the end.
Great vid 😊😊😊👌👌👌👌👍👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌👐👌
I am a newbie to all this and I was trying to upgrade subs in my truck, now I have no clue what subwoofers to get or where to start! I have a 2017 Silverado 1500 LTZ Crew Cab with the rest seat raised 3". I currently have 2 Alpine Type R R-W12D2 in a ported box firing upward. I want to upgrade my subwoofer enclosure as well as subwoofers. I also don't want to spend a rediculous amount of money on the subs. Any suggestions? Help please?!
The Sundown SD4 12's we have on www.emfcaraudio.com would be great for that application.
Does cone stiffness effects sound quality according to motor strength?
Cone stiffness effects sound quality no matter the motor strength. Cone material does too. Though, there is a point where a more rigid cone doesn't make a difference over another one.
So my question is, is it a bad thing for a company to show their small parameters when coils are ran in parallel? For instance I have an older sub, the re audio ScxV2 10d4. On their spec sheet it shows the RE as being 1.856ohms. And on my fluke I read 1.9 when I have coils in parallel. I’m a new subscriber and have always been into car audio since the late 90’s, but in the last year I have decided to get into it more. I want to build an spl build for my sons Jeep power wheel and a stock trunk build in a 97 Toyota Avalon I bought as a spare bass car recently. After tax refund I’m going to start buying electrical upgrades first, then until I can get some better knowledge on what to buy for equipment, just do stuff like sound treatment and stiffening whatever I can in my trunk that’s legal . Thanks for any help you can shoot my way. I’m down to learn and will start from the beginning and watch ur vids to get some tips.
First and foremost, don't forget we do sell equipment on our website, and with that sale comes the support like nobody else has. Now, as for the parameters being in parallel, it's not *bad* as long as ALL of the specs are given in parallel. If they're mixing series and parallel that is a problem. Industry standard is to do them in series so I feel like they did it in parallel to fluff numbers somewhere.
EMF Audio thanks for the reply. I thought the same as well to fluff them. Surprisingly, The only two things I think winisd is good for (impedance graph) and (inputting numbers for modeling) because it catches those “fluffs”. It actually allowed me to input the numbers without any errors, which is what happens when they mix parrallel and series numbers in specs. I am definitely looking into buying some of your guy’s products, I’ve heard nothing but good things about performance as well as customer service. Thanks again for the response. I’m Still trying to get some measurements done for this trunk I have to work with to determine what equipment will work best. But I want to run stock trunk and in the first power class of each org. Which is hard to do every .org is so different. Anyways thanks again
My hcca 152 reads 1.3 on each coil I thought that was crazy since it's closer to a dual 1ohm than dual 2 but it's a dual 2 lol.
Dual 2 Banhammer read 1.5, 1.3 seems irregular. Have you watched our video on DMM's?
@@EMFAudio yea I thought so too but both read the same always and it performs just fine so whatever I guess. Yes I have seen most of your videos I reckon lol. Not to mention I'm familiar with a dmm regardless and much much more 😂
@@bass-n-truth-inthestix9083 You can be familiar with DMM's but that video shows why some aren't so reliable on what you're seeing.
@@EMFAudio yeah no doubt I find all of your videos very informative and on point. I can't compare to another dmm since I only have 1 but it's a decemt meter. Also if they are 1.3 ohm each coil that's fine with me. My amp kills it around .8 ohms on the Dyno. I just think they should be more accurate on the specs because in some cases that could be quite problematic per say.
This has got the be one of the teachers from Gnostics radio ! Has to be
Not sure if I should be offended or flattered.
@@EMFAudio well if the is he then it is I who feels flattered that you responded to me. But in all seriousness you sound just like one of the teachers for Gnostic radio and in my personal opinion the the only one with a true understanding of what is and what is not . if so 🔯👍
If there's one thing I admire it's when somebody tries their best to stay out of the spotlight and the guy I'm referring to as far as I know does a pretty good job at staying anonymous that definitely shows wisdom .
that Lucifer can be so beautiful and so tempting and the ego so willing to" help the world" through Fame . Gets the best of us I've seen many great teachers fall due to the spotlight . But enough of my rant it's probably just coincidence♉⏫⏬
HELLLLL YEAH THANK YOU SIR... WHATS YOUR NAME BY THE WAY I FEEL WEIRD CALLING YOU EMF LOL
Sean
EMF Audio nice to meet you sean my names aaron
What program do you use to test your T/S parameters? I've been using Dayton Audio DATS V2, but I'm struggling with having to add mass to the cone to check VAS. If I add too much, I can get differences, if I add too little it says not enough to check. Any suggestions?
I've heard the DATS isn't so great. I use a WT2.
@@EMFAudio I appreciate the reply, I've been watching your videos nonstop for about a week now. In your amp setting video you mentioned you would test a DD1 if someone sent it to you, making a video about why it is or isn't needed.. I'd be willing to send you my DD1+ in the name of learning! Message me if you'd be interested.
@@EMFAudio Also, would you be interested in testing a subwoofer with both the WT2 and DATS V2 if I sent it along with my DD1+? Could be interesting to see the differences!
@@mitchellantonsen44 I would be willing to do both, though I couldn't promise a timeline on them. You can't message via UA-cam so shoot me an email through the contact form on www.emfcaraudio.com.
@@EMFAudio Done and Done!
Uhhhh..........
The Russian car audio company PRIDE rates their Xmax measurements at 50% BL, at least thats what their website ssys under the specs tab. Ive never seen it anywhere, hell usually Sundown at 70 is as low as you can find.
eu.pridecaraudio.com/catalog/subwoofers/UFO515
50% is a case of fluffing numbers but at least they specify.
Vast is box volume at spec
Vas fkn auto correct fk off lmao