The defaulting to 5E spells is hugely disappointing. Free League really should have stuck with their own special spells to really give it a unique flavor.
It would be cool if you did some deep dive reviews of previously reviewed games through the lens of what they do for the game master to make game masters better at running games and what they do for making the game easier for the GM to run. Deep dive reviews on just one aspect of previous games you've reviewed.
Agreed. For example the one ring starter set has a fair amount of hate for just being the shire and too kiddy. However as a DM this is teaching me the system as well. That starter set was great for me as a dm
I really wanted to like the original Symbaroum system, having had enough of D&D's Marvel powergaming. But I feel, like others, that the original rules are too broken. A lot has been said about the original game not being powergaming. But I actually see a game which promites min maxing and "gratification gaming." I think Ruins of Symbaroum is an extremely elegant conversion. Easy to play and also with enough crunch to make character development interesting. I am, however, sad that they incorporated so many 5E spells. I am also not yet convinced by how they have converted the corruption mechanic. I haven't played yet, but I suspect spellcasters might be able to remove temporary corruption too easily. But this can easily be fixed with house rules - unlike the original system, I think. Also the adventure books are really well put together in Ruins of Symbaroum. Gone is the bloat of the original system books. Stat blocks are beautifully presented and much more easy to implement than creatures under the original rules.
Currently running Symbaroum and the only complaint I have is the GM screen doesn't have very useful information on it. I don't have any need to pick up the 5e version. Great video as per usual
Haha I can see the changeling finding out that they are going to be ostracized and their friends being like, "Well although you will no longer be able to see your family and friends, and you're a stranger in your own land where you spent your childhood and formed your identity, we have to admit that night vision is going to be pretty cool!"
Dope video as always . I can't blame any big indie publisher for making 5e rules for their biggest products . Just hate to see that a game feels like they need to adopt to get a bigger audience. It is what it is
The part that bugs me most about it is that Free League isn't really indie, they're small-press (at the minimum) and are doing absolutely fine in regards to that. They've put out several games, most of which are beloved across the TTRPG community (thanks to their relatively lower learning curve and tendency towards publishing YZE systems) and they clearly aren't hurting in money. And I don't blame them, especially as an indie designer myself (damn does that 5e have an intoxicating siren's call). I want to believe they are convinced it is more useful for drawing in folks towards non-D&D systems, but even then I see more evidence pointing towards said target demographic really only interested in stuff if it is 5e, then otherwise abandoning things or seeing them only as brief asides from 5e. WotC very specifically markets their product as more than a game you play and instead as a lifestyle, an attitude that is quite infectiously effective. At least here it seems Free League genuinely cared about the adaptation and some of the additions they made are kinda neat.
I've been running Symbaroum since 2019 before the D&D 5e version came out. I adapted it for Pathfinder 2e but it would have been easier to try and adapt this 5e version. I love the dark setting and the Davakor. I only wish there were more adventure materials dealing with the setting, I found the adventures from the original game developers lacking.
Great Review. Love this setting and Grip's visuals. Bad side is it will likely be too harsh for the average 5E player, this is dark fantasy. The good is hopefully it appeals to enough 5E players to get them to buy more Symbaroum and keep the brand going.
Well... kind of late reply... Captains are a melee support class, representing "battlefield leaders". Yes, it's a physical combat class... but it's a Charisma/Constitution class rather than the pure combat Strength/Constitution combo of the Warrior. Captain can take on specialized approaches like "Officer" (squad buffer) and Poet-Warrior (kind of like a Bard). Warrior can take on approaches like "Berserker" or "Duelist" or "Knight". Both Captain and Warrior get extra attacks, but a Captain's abilities are more focused on group benefits & a Warrior has more individual power benefits. Warriors are going to be better at fighting on average, and the special approaches/fighting styles are going to make you better than a Captain in a 1-on-1 fight. In a group content, I think the Captain has its own niche as well... but the Captain isn't replacing Warrior as the top melee dog.
Eh. Don't understand why someone interested in playing Symbaroum wouldn't just get the original game. It's less crunchy than 5e and has the flavor built in. The 5e spell lists in this are a good example of losing something in translation. Ah, well. I guess there's money to be made from all the D&D-for-everything folks.
Cognitive change barrier, people don't want to learn new things if they don't have to. 5e players often don't see the value in learning a new game and only the cost.
The original rules for Symbaroum are just horrible. The ideas are great but the abilities are so broken that every encounter becomes trivial after a few sessions of leveling.
@@SeldonnHari I've never understood this. I love learning new systems (and settings). I see people being resistant to learning new games but I've never understood it...
What are the differences between Symbaroum and Symbaroum 5E ? Is it "just" the rule system being converted to 5E, or is the World, creatures, stories, characters altered ?
@@DaveThaumavore.. Thanks for the answer. I'm considering buying the game, but doesn't know which is better (system) or if one system has "extra" knowledge and/or a more thorough description of everything 🤷♂️ Difficult choice, but i think i'll go with the original.
I love the uniqueness of the world and the features of the classes and races. It definitely sets it apart from the typical Dungeons and Dragons type fantasy. I also love the narrative character building tables that help give characters flavor. I might be interested in getting this just to read it haha. Love your reviews!
As a huge fan of Symbaroum, I was fairly disappointed with Free League putting effort in this conversion, instead further developing the original game and lore. From practically a reversed d20 system, they made it regular d20, just to enter the 5e club... Ok, I guess it's there where the profit lays and you have to live out of something.
I absolutely love this setting! Got the original and this 5e one, very good to ease people into new things. I too regret not getting the collector's edition.
Original Symbaroum. The game was designed specifically for the setting and lore. There is no way to replicate that level of tie-in using a "generic" game (like 5e modified for the setting via RoS).
If you don't mind learning an entire new system, original Symbaorum is made for the setting, so it's much more appropriate. D&D is a tactical combat game and there are things in Symbaorum that you shouldn't try and fight, at least not conventionally.
I’ve gotta say, this departure from the typical races, classes, and religions of the Forgotten Realms is refreshing. AND because the original symbaroum was supposed to be DEADLY, this may encourage 5e GMs to throw encounter balance(and CR) to the wind. They even seem to add more lore clarification than what is available in the original. Definitely the most interesting 5e product for me. The only buzzkill is the 5e spell list.
Aggressive marketing and brand loyalty. I can understand having favorite systems, but there seems to be cases of open hostility towards other systems without even checking them out. I find it baffling.
Is the 5e version the best? Of course not. Throwing 5e's soulless Marvel-esque rules into a good setting doesn't make it better. Symbaroum's setting is clearly better than 5e's kitchen sink slop setting, so there is the improvement.
The 'problem' with Corruption is that it effects some classes more than others. It makes playing a magic user class a rather hobbling experience. And in original Symbaroum combat feels rather unsatisfying.
How is the combat less satisfying in the original? In my experience D&D feels more like a min/max arcadey kind of combat. It's a sincere question since I've no experience with the original.
This is intentional. Symbaroum is a low-powered, dark fantasy settings. It still has good and evil, but a wizard slinging fireballs every fight and paladins smiting each round of combat is not in theme with the setting.
I'd only get this version to assist in enhancing the original. The fact that you need the D&D 5e PHB is a put off to me when the setting is so different to standard D&D. This should have been its own separate RPG and not just a D&D adjacent setting. But this is what we get when publishers sell out to the most common denominator.
OG symbaroum combat is weird. Having to track the +- of the NPC to player abilities is cumbersome. Especially when you get into equipment bonuses. It feels thematic for roleplay but number crunchy and stalls story narrative when you need to pause to figure out +- values.
let dnd e5 be dnd e5 and let symbaroum be symbatoum don´t mind or hate 5e at all just want the to be keep seperet some symbaroum have it own way to develop an shine becuse it small and get better would rather have see a symbaroum patch for the origenal so symbaoum 1,5 or even 2 or so thing like that
Seeing this late. I understand that getting the setting into the 5E players will hopefully get more people to play the game. The original Symbaroum is so much better and I hope 5E players get a chance to play the original version. I was hoping while watching this video they would remove the annoying spell slots, and adventuring day mechanic, that 5E has, unfortunately they left them in. So sad. I will just play the original Symbaroum! Thanks for the video!
The ridiculous min-maxing demonstrates exactly why it should have been converted to 1e/OSRIC, instead of 5e-- _if_ it should have ever been made compatible with D&D at all. I can understand why the designers went for the obvious cash-grab, but it's still pretty sad that everyone feels the need to pay lip service to all the wannabe edgelords and Mary-Sues.
Nooooooooooooooooo stop making everything feel like D&D! Different game systems make the world feel different. Symbaroum is more than just a spooky forest module for levels 7-12.
I find this version of Symbaroum to be far more entertaining than the original. This is an excellent review. Overall, Ruins of Symbaroum is a more cohesive and coherent game than Symbaroum.
It’s actually got the same designer as AiME. Was an advertised feature during the Kickstarter :) So not a ripoff, just an evolution of his own work product. Also AiME is not available for sale and out of print so this is the only version of those rules which are publicly available and in print.
The defaulting to 5E spells is hugely disappointing. Free League really should have stuck with their own special spells to really give it a unique flavor.
I purchased the original Complete Rulebook so I could do exactly that!
It would be cool if you did some deep dive reviews of previously reviewed games through the lens of what they do for the game master to make game masters better at running games and what they do for making the game easier for the GM to run.
Deep dive reviews on just one aspect of previous games you've reviewed.
Interesting. I was just thinking about something like that yesterday. It's a good idea!
Agreed. For example the one ring starter set has a fair amount of hate for just being the shire and too kiddy. However as a DM this is teaching me the system as well. That starter set was great for me as a dm
I really wanted to like the original Symbaroum system, having had enough of D&D's Marvel powergaming. But I feel, like others, that the original rules are too broken. A lot has been said about the original game not being powergaming. But I actually see a game which promites min maxing and "gratification gaming."
I think Ruins of Symbaroum is an extremely elegant conversion. Easy to play and also with enough crunch to make character development interesting. I am, however, sad that they incorporated so many 5E spells. I am also not yet convinced by how they have converted the corruption mechanic. I haven't played yet, but I suspect spellcasters might be able to remove temporary corruption too easily. But this can easily be fixed with house rules - unlike the original system, I think.
Also the adventure books are really well put together in Ruins of Symbaroum. Gone is the bloat of the original system books. Stat blocks are beautifully presented and much more easy to implement than creatures under the original rules.
Dungenerator is what I have been looking for.
Currently running Symbaroum and the only complaint I have is the GM screen doesn't have very useful information on it. I don't have any need to pick up the 5e version. Great video as per usual
Your videos are so good. Keep them up, you speak very well and your presentations are easy to follow and engaging.
Haha I can see the changeling finding out that they are going to be ostracized and their friends being like, "Well although you will no longer be able to see your family and friends, and you're a stranger in your own land where you spent your childhood and formed your identity, we have to admit that night vision is going to be pretty cool!"
Dope video as always . I can't blame any big indie publisher for making 5e rules for their biggest products . Just hate to see that a game feels like they need to adopt to get a bigger audience. It is what it is
The part that bugs me most about it is that Free League isn't really indie, they're small-press (at the minimum) and are doing absolutely fine in regards to that. They've put out several games, most of which are beloved across the TTRPG community (thanks to their relatively lower learning curve and tendency towards publishing YZE systems) and they clearly aren't hurting in money.
And I don't blame them, especially as an indie designer myself (damn does that 5e have an intoxicating siren's call). I want to believe they are convinced it is more useful for drawing in folks towards non-D&D systems, but even then I see more evidence pointing towards said target demographic really only interested in stuff if it is 5e, then otherwise abandoning things or seeing them only as brief asides from 5e. WotC very specifically markets their product as more than a game you play and instead as a lifestyle, an attitude that is quite infectiously effective.
At least here it seems Free League genuinely cared about the adaptation and some of the additions they made are kinda neat.
We should also show that when Goblins become Ogres, they lose all of their prior memories. Trolls keep theirs.
Nice detail! Thanks.
I’m very curious about the Bestiary. The MM is pretty vanilla
Wow this is a great, deep review! Thanks!
Great video and review as usual, thank you.
I've been running Symbaroum since 2019 before the D&D 5e version came out. I adapted it for Pathfinder 2e but it would have been easier to try and adapt this 5e version. I love the dark setting and the Davakor. I only wish there were more adventure materials dealing with the setting, I found the adventures from the original game developers lacking.
Great Review. Love this setting and Grip's visuals. Bad side is it will likely be too harsh for the average 5E player, this is dark fantasy. The good is hopefully it appeals to enough 5E players to get them to buy more Symbaroum and keep the brand going.
What is the 'Captain' class? Is it a support class? Are the Warriors much better fightiers than the others? ty
Well... kind of late reply...
Captains are a melee support class, representing "battlefield leaders". Yes, it's a physical combat class... but it's a Charisma/Constitution class rather than the pure combat Strength/Constitution combo of the Warrior.
Captain can take on specialized approaches like "Officer" (squad buffer) and Poet-Warrior (kind of like a Bard). Warrior can take on approaches like "Berserker" or "Duelist" or "Knight". Both Captain and Warrior get extra attacks, but a Captain's abilities are more focused on group benefits & a Warrior has more individual power benefits.
Warriors are going to be better at fighting on average, and the special approaches/fighting styles are going to make you better than a Captain in a 1-on-1 fight. In a group content, I think the Captain has its own niche as well... but the Captain isn't replacing Warrior as the top melee dog.
Eh. Don't understand why someone interested in playing Symbaroum wouldn't just get the original game. It's less crunchy than 5e and has the flavor built in. The 5e spell lists in this are a good example of losing something in translation. Ah, well. I guess there's money to be made from all the D&D-for-everything folks.
Cognitive change barrier, people don't want to learn new things if they don't have to. 5e players often don't see the value in learning a new game and only the cost.
I loved the OG game...but could not get my 5e players to even look at the books. This version has at least got my foot in the door.
The original rules for Symbaroum are just horrible. The ideas are great but the abilities are so broken that every encounter becomes trivial after a few sessions of leveling.
Hehe. Yea 5e has this vice grip on people. And honestly due to some interaction with youtubers as of late I am completely against play 5e ever again
@@SeldonnHari I've never understood this. I love learning new systems (and settings). I see people being resistant to learning new games but I've never understood it...
What are the differences between Symbaroum and Symbaroum 5E ?
Is it "just" the rule system being converted to 5E, or is the World, creatures, stories, characters altered ?
From what I can recollect, the only difference is the rules.
@@DaveThaumavore.. Thanks for the answer. I'm considering buying the game, but doesn't know which is better (system) or if one system has "extra" knowledge and/or a more thorough description of everything 🤷♂️
Difficult choice, but i think i'll go with the original.
I love the uniqueness of the world and the features of the classes and races. It definitely sets it apart from the typical Dungeons and Dragons type fantasy. I also love the narrative character building tables that help give characters flavor. I might be interested in getting this just to read it haha. Love your reviews!
Thanks! Yeah this is a modern classic I think.
9:00 my favorite part 😊
The original rules are perfektly fine but the more exposure Symbaroum gets the better! 🤟
As a huge fan of Symbaroum, I was fairly disappointed with Free League putting effort in this conversion, instead further developing the original game and lore. From practically a reversed d20 system, they made it regular d20, just to enter the 5e club... Ok, I guess it's there where the profit lays and you have to live out of something.
Same
agree
But Davokar awakens came out. I doubt very much they’re abandoning the line. It’s just variety for a bigger player base
I absolutely love this setting! Got the original and this 5e one, very good to ease people into new things.
I too regret not getting the collector's edition.
I am really tempted to pick it up but would you say the 5e Symbaroum or original system Symbaroum is better?
Depends on your personal preferences and those of your players/GM.
Original Symbaroum. The game was designed specifically for the setting and lore. There is no way to replicate that level of tie-in using a "generic" game (like 5e modified for the setting via RoS).
@@twilight-2k that says literally nothing about whether the rukes are good...
@@SirWeirdGuy the rules aren’t perfect but aren’t bad. Even if they were, bad setting-specific rules are better than okay generic rules (like 5e).
If you don't mind learning an entire new system, original Symbaorum is made for the setting, so it's much more appropriate. D&D is a tactical combat game and there are things in Symbaorum that you shouldn't try and fight, at least not conventionally.
Bear in mind that the original author is now a part of Free League; so ’invited’ is not the proper word. 🙂. Great review!
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I’ve gotta say, this departure from the typical races, classes, and religions of the Forgotten Realms is refreshing. AND because the original symbaroum was supposed to be DEADLY, this may encourage 5e GMs to throw encounter balance(and CR) to the wind. They even seem to add more lore clarification than what is available in the original. Definitely the most interesting 5e product for me. The only buzzkill is the 5e spell list.
I guess I'll never get why people want to play everything with the 5e ruleset... it's not that great and it's not even that easy.
Some people have different tastes than you, actually.
Aggressive marketing and brand loyalty. I can understand having favorite systems, but there seems to be cases of open hostility towards other systems without even checking them out. I find it baffling.
As a DM I find this product interesting because it's hard to get players to try another system.
Is the 5e version the best?
Of course not. Throwing 5e's soulless Marvel-esque rules into a good setting doesn't make it better.
Symbaroum's setting is clearly better than 5e's kitchen sink slop setting, so there is the improvement.
The 'problem' with Corruption is that it effects some classes more than others. It makes playing a magic user class a rather hobbling experience. And in original Symbaroum combat feels rather unsatisfying.
How is the combat less satisfying in the original? In my experience D&D feels more like a min/max arcadey kind of combat. It's a sincere question since I've no experience with the original.
You know, some might consider this a feature, not a bug.
This is intentional. Symbaroum is a low-powered, dark fantasy settings. It still has good and evil, but a wizard slinging fireballs every fight and paladins smiting each round of combat is not in theme with the setting.
I'd only get this version to assist in enhancing the original. The fact that you need the D&D 5e PHB is a put off to me when the setting is so different to standard D&D. This should have been its own separate RPG and not just a D&D adjacent setting. But this is what we get when publishers sell out to the most common denominator.
Does for any reason someone knows if ther is a vid expamining the best class/race combs?
I’m torn between this or buying and learning the original Symbaroum rule set 😬
Great review can’t wait to see the bestiary!
OG symbaroum combat is weird. Having to track the +- of the NPC to player abilities is cumbersome. Especially when you get into equipment bonuses. It feels thematic for roleplay but number crunchy and stalls story narrative when you need to pause to figure out +- values.
I mean... i haven't run the game yet, but it seems to mostly be you announcing the modifier, which is stat-10 for opposed rolls
Hmmm, I may be wrong in this, but my understanding is that there are no spell slots in Ruins of Symbaroum.
let dnd e5 be dnd e5 and let symbaroum be symbatoum don´t mind or hate 5e at all just want the to be keep seperet some symbaroum have it own way to develop an shine becuse it small and get better would rather have see a symbaroum patch for the origenal so symbaoum 1,5 or even 2 or so thing like that
Seeing this late. I understand that getting the setting into the 5E players will hopefully get more people to play the game. The original Symbaroum is so much better and I hope 5E players get a chance to play the original version. I was hoping while watching this video they would remove the annoying spell slots, and adventuring day mechanic, that 5E has, unfortunately they left them in. So sad. I will just play the original Symbaroum! Thanks for the video!
The ridiculous min-maxing demonstrates exactly why it should have been converted to 1e/OSRIC, instead of 5e-- _if_ it should have ever been made compatible with D&D at all. I can understand why the designers went for the obvious cash-grab, but it's still pretty sad that everyone feels the need to pay lip service to all the wannabe edgelords and Mary-Sues.
Nooooooooooooooooo stop making everything feel like D&D! Different game systems make the world feel different. Symbaroum is more than just a spooky forest module for levels 7-12.
I find this version of Symbaroum to be far more entertaining than the original. This is an excellent review. Overall, Ruins of Symbaroum is a more cohesive and coherent game than Symbaroum.
Superb books
Not doing any 5E content.
Absolutely loses a lot of itself being converted to 5e.
Honestly, the original Symbaroum had so awful game mechanics that even adopting the ones of Subbuteo would have made it a good game.
lmao at all the gatekeeping going on in the comments.
cope
The added mechanics are a ripoff from AiME.
It’s actually got the same designer as AiME. Was an advertised feature during the Kickstarter :) So not a ripoff, just an evolution of his own work product.
Also AiME is not available for sale and out of print so this is the only version of those rules which are publicly available and in print.
@@s.c.r. I didnt know it was the same designer. Thank you for the info.
@@pacceli2009 No problem! I loved AiME’s changes so it was a big selling point for me lol.
All the time, talent & effort put into this 5e version. What a waste!
It's still there to use even with D&D changing.
@@MrStath1986 I just meant that there's nothing wrong with the Symbaroum rules themselves.
@@Mind_of_MATT The original Symbaroum rules were not great.
@@simonfernandes6809 What's wrong with them?
@@Mind_of_MATT The math feel apart because it's roll under system.
the moment i he said 5e ive lost all interest
This seems amazing, I love the dark vibe. Sort of a Shadow of the Demon Lord feel.