Interesting experiment. I wonder if you used a properly sized tube as a guide for the bit in place of the angle if it would be easier to hold and less chatter. Did you try truing the stone? Does that stone have any reinforcement in the arbor area? If you clamp down too tight on a bare stone it could shatter. What is the manufacturers stated RPM limit on that stone? Also on your final version add a guard over the stone. You know what those things look like when they come flying apart. A face shield won't save you.
The stone was running 2000 which is fairly slow but you are right. I would not trust it much faster. Its poor quality. I was thinking hex collets with a flange that limited the depth so you could get the same grind depth on both sides. The hex would index the rotational axis. The stone is rated at 6000 in the picture on amazon but this number was left off the stone I received.
I have yet to see one of these cup stones that ran well out of the box. Once you get it tuned up mark the cup and the mandrel and use that mandrel mark dedicating it to whatever chuck jaw you choose. That will help further dressing a bunch. It is always good to visit with you my friend. For a two bit stone and a 70 cent arbor you have a respectable sharpener there. There really is nothing better than a nice sharp and balanced drill bit eh.
@@WinkysWorkshop When it comes to stones we really get what we pay for. I had a standing argument with my boss about that and he agreed to a test. The cheaper stones, disks, cut-off wheels were almost twice as expensive as the high end ones. They were ok if handled with Kidd gloves but put them to work and they just fell apart.
Interesting idea. I can't tell whether you did this or not, but it is very important to use a card disc between the wheel and the clamping surfaces on your mandrel.
I agree, there was paper on the stone but it did not have the support it should have. I'll have to make a different mandrel if I follow through with this idea... and a new stone too, this one was egg shaped.
Hi Mark, you just gave me alot to think about. I would of never thought about using the inside of a flared cup wheel. What you mentioned about feeding a smaller drill bit in and rotating it made a lot of sense. I think that you can work things out to where this will be a big benefit for small homeshop guys like us. I do have a old drill Doctor that is like new, it sharpens 1/8" - 1/2" plus I can purchase a accessory that will grind up to 3/4". This could work very well for those larger bits, once you get use to doing it this method will become easier. For the younger guys who can still see this would work over a wide range of bits. Awhile ago Joe Pie."never can remember how to spell his name" did a video on using a grinding wheel just like that in the milling machine. It was a very interesting video. Maybe a guy could touch up tooling on the mill and a do what you just showed with one grinding wheel. Alot to think about. Thanks Mark
I just looked up Joe Pieczynski's video the title is "Can you grind tools on a milling machine? YES -- take a look !!". So take a look I think that you might say "I like it".
Yeah... it is a lot to think about. This was just to test my theory and for sure not the final solution. I think a collet to hold the drills would be ideal. I've never seen a drill doctor but I understand they use collets.
@@WinkysWorkshop Sorry for the slow reply Mark. I understand what you were doing in this video. There are many routes and degrees of complexity that a person could take with the idea that you showed. The Drill Doctor holds the drill bit similar to a drill chuck, I think that it has six thin steel jaws that hold the bit. It is pretty impressive in my opinion for a tool aimed at the home owner. You put the drill in its holder slide it into a port and then you tighten the chuck, this clocks the drill bit to the holder. After that there is a second port where insert the holder, then you turn it around until it sparks out. If wanted there is a third port you can use to Split the point. The machine is made by and based on the Darex Company's industrial sharpeners. I got mine while doing some trading. I heard good things about them and was surprised when I used it. It does take a learning curve to get a nice grind. Mine is the original model and takes way to much martial off for touching up a drill. I am planning on using a feeler gauge when I set the drill bit from now on. The new top of the line model has a built in depth adjustment now so that must of been a complaint from costumers. I think that the new one is a great deal considering that you can very easily sharpen 1/8 to 3/4 inch drills for $130 range plus split the point. Replacement diamond cutters are $20 plus you can Sharpen carbide also. I think that I am going to purchase the 17/32 -- 3/4 holder for mine then set something up based on what you showed for larger drills. Any thing that I do bigger than 3/4 will just be for clearance or to bore out afterwards. I think that I will be set as far as drill bits. Thanks for the video I have been going back and forth on this subject for a while.
Great experiment !!! I am lucky to have an old valve refacing machine with some parts missing but what i will need is still intact . I am sure i might pull it off to make it into a drill grinding machine . Thank you for your videos . They are really motivating !!!
A lot of your projects re.ind me of articles from old popular mechanics magazines. Those were incredible in that it allowed people to make tools that they couldn't afford to purchase.
An interesting concept, Mark. I learnt how to sharpen drill bits in high school machine shop on a bench grinder. My son is a licensed machinist and is quite impressed with my ability to free hand sharpen drill bits. I have sharpened many thousands over the years, sometimes having to use what's available, such as angle grinder, chop saw, etc. to get it done.
Yeah... I sharpen my own without issue unless its small and then I get lucky sometimes. A drill doctor is probable a better solution for the small drills. It was just an idea I had to try.
You need a way to index the bit and a depth stop to get a perfect grind. Your idea is good. Some people think that free hand grinding is the way to go but you will never achieve a perfect cutting edge that are the same on both sides and one side will be doing all the work and at the same time be drilling off center.
Interesting concept probably a better stone would give better results. I'd be concerned with the grinding dust on the lathe ways. I built a 2x72 belt grinder that works great for drill sharpening. Makes it very simple to change to different grit belts when you need to. Thanks for the video. Always more than one way to skin a cat.
Yeah... I cleaned up real well afterword. This was a test, not something to repeat. I have a 2 x 42 belt sander are use all the time and yes, it's amazing for drills (or anything else). I've built two sanders and the second one has a 6 inch drive wheel on a 3450 motor. Totally amazing. Higher speed is more better :o)
I would mount the V block "sideways" [make it a < block] so that it doesn't need that adjustment, and add something to help hold bits in place. Such as a "fence" that clamps to the lower face of the
@@WinkysWorkshop Bob is right, I was going to suggest that but Bob beat me to it. Look at the end of your angle iron, you see an L shape. Now rotate the L 45 degrees and you now have the non vertical 2/3's of a K. Adjust the height and any size bit will now be on center.
@@joerogi8401 Rotating the angle iron to make a V only keeps the point in the same location on the horizontal plan. It might reduce the amount of vertical change but does not eliminate the change. Think about it this way, rotate the angle to make a V. Now align everything perfectly with a 1/4" bit. Now replace the drill with a 3-inch bit. The center of the bit will close to the top of the wheel and not in the same location. If you were sharpening with a belt sander the angles would be the same however not when working with the a curved surface of a stone.
No, not a V but a V on its side. In Bobs original post there are two examples one before the word block and one at the end, a greater than or less than sign. Once the apex is set to the center height the diameter doesn't matter the center of the drill bit is always on height, adjust the carriage and cross slide to locate the other presentations.
Mr Winky, rewatching your great video, Thanks again.... Well last night, I decided to turn my DeWalt radial arm saw into a tool bit and drill sharpener, with a 10 inch precision backing disc mounted to the arbor...it has abrasive aluminum oxide sanding disc mounted [ on grit on one side, and another on the other side and runs very true... [CMT makes the disc for aligning your saw and also as a sanding disc.it is thicker than a saw blade] .I use it as a disc sander for shaping metal and demurring also.....and wham, I thought, why not try and sharpen drill bits and lathe tools, well, the cool thing is , the motor can be tilted in multiple axis very accurately to the degree I want, and I use a movable aluminum table top [ 1/8" on a 3/4" plywood base mounted to the bed, [not the big plywood type used for sawing] so I can lower the disc below grade as they say.....I can also move the disc in and out in relation to the edge of table with the movement of motor on the arm. So far, the tool grinding is a big success for off hand grinding.....I need a little practice for the drill bits.....I will still sharpen my smaller bits on the drill sharpener I have, [below 3/4"] but the big boys will get the Radial Arm Saw treatment. for the 30 bucks I paid for the discs and the 20 dollars for the saw, I have a great little machine that is multi purpose, and it cuts aluminum and wood still.....[note, I got a great deal on the saw to say the least, they are not appreciated these days.....] I hope this helps some one...... best wishes, Paul down in Orlando
WOW! That's a fantastic use for a radial arm saw!!! I'm not a fan of these saws but this is a great idea. You could also set a stop on the top rail and do some very accurate grinding. I don't have a radial arm saw but I do have an 8-inch CBN disk. It might be interesting to do something like this on a smaller scale. I have several heavy duty 6 inch dovetailed linier rails just waiting to be used! Ha
@@WinkysWorkshop I mean instead of a flat base to rest the drills on, you have a 45 degree angle so you have to push them sideways against the corner. It should centre any diameter at the same height then. (hope I'm making sense)
Mr Winky:, not sure if anyone has mentioned, [too lazy to read all comments] but what if you used a square collet block [5C] to hold your bit so cutting edge is level to the stone? I used to do that for dubbing drill bits on the vertical mill. sure made it easy to get a level bit grind on both sides and this would make it easy for you to move bit in and out from stone.....without out worrying about rotation... let me know what you think , best wishes, Paul down in Orlando
The stone needed dressing (shaped like an egg) but it matched the drill perfectly. If I dressed the stone to match the angle while going straight in (which I think is what you meant) then I would loose the additional curved clearance behind the cutting edge.
@@WinkysWorkshop My mind tell me that dressing the angle would be no different than dressing the o/d of a wheel on a bench grinder. The curved drop off is created by rotating the drill while grinding. (the same as sharpening the spiral flutes of an end mill You are doing the work so I may be all wet but does what i am suggesting make sense?
Better than height adjustment! Something that holds the drill on all sides like a collet would do. The tool holder would get centered once and you never touch it again. Mount the collet like part in bearings or bushings so it can rotate freely around its center line. The relief angle needs to be behind the cutting edge a little. I'm not sure how to do that part right now, but I think if rotated up a little (1-2 degrees) and you could stop rotation beyond a certain point, the relief angle could be created and not impact the cutting edge.
All good ideas and I have thought the same. The relief angle is correct for large drills but not small. Actually, it's correct on the small drills too but only at the cutting edge.
@@WinkysWorkshop Since the whole collet assembly would rotate, a lobe on it 180 degrees apart would lift the drill gradually as the grinder moved away from the cutting edge and create that relief angle. The only critical detail would be mounting a drill in the collet at the right place to match with the lobes. I think some kind of locating pin in the flutes or across their edges could work for that. I think we are on the verge of making a lathe mounted drill sharpener that does a perfect job.
@@WinkysWorkshop Collets expand and shrink in very small amounts. If you have a set of ER32 or ER40 collets...and we both have them...they will precisely hold just about any drill diameter we might want to sharpen. Collet blocks are really cheap in whatever kind you get them. Modifying one to be a drill holder wouldn't offend me very much! I think a square collet block would be better than a hex block since drills have only 2 flutes. Explain why you suggested a hex block?
@@WinkysWorkshop maybe take a diamond to that wonky wheel to true it up, or something like a Norbide stick, use the compound to feed into the stone....you could use the power feed to square the end, and might not be a bad idea to do the outside also to keep the vibration down, make sure to cover the ways, as doing this makes a lot of abrasive dust, try and only take .001 or less cuts and feed evenly back and forth at the same setting......I do this on my mill and my Black Diamond brand drill sharpener....hope this helps.......that bugger was bouncing all over the place huh....Paul
We had a twist drill sharpener in a machine shop I worked in that had a cup wheel and you put the drill bit into this split block and lined the chisel point up with these two marks in the block. Then you slid the block into the cup wheel and flipped the block over to sharpen the other cutting lip. The block was like a pair of L shape box joint fingers so you could clamp it down on different diameter drill bits. If you can see that. The grind only contacted the inside edge of the lip of the wheel really. There was a straight guide the block slid along too. So you just pushed the block back and forth along that straight guide into the cup and back out again. Zip zip. Was a very expensive little gadget I was told.
Buy a drill doctor? This might be the best approach but not as much fun. I've never seen a drill doctor. I used to work for a printing company that printed magazines. I designed a lot of machine improvements to resolve issues in problem areas. I would avoid looking at commercially available add-on fixes because they would blind me to other possibilities. About half the time I designed a much better fix and the other half I either came up with the same fix or gave up and used a proven fix. I'll eventually look at a drill doctor but only after I think about this some more.
@@WinkysWorkshop Don't waste your money on one! I've had several and I could not get them to work reliably for me at the best of times! they seem to work hit and miss!
@@WinkysWorkshop They're not perfect but the Bulldog style is an OK cheap bit sharpener. Bulldogs are the ones that pivot around. I'll use a bulldog just to get the cutting edges even. I have mine mounted funny to a face wheel too. They way they tell you to mount it the grinds come out parallel to the edge. I like perpendicular grinds to edges. So I made this wedged shaped block to mount the Bulldog to. You just put a bit into the sharpener and hold the bit to the wheel like how you want it to contact then make something to make that happen. Easy peasy.
Even tho I appreciate the thought process and the good work you did,I believe I will stick to the grinder lol. I did purchase a drill doctor to do my small drills cause at 72 years old the eyes ain’t what they used to be hahaha
I've heard the drill doctors are nice but I've never seen one. I understand they have a collet which I think is probably an ideal approach. I do okay grinding by hand but just wanted to try this idea.
@@WinkysWorkshop oh I am NOT disparaging your efforts I think it is a pretty cool idea. I was just saying my personal needs lol. A drill doctor is the only way I can get even and sharp small drills any more. It will do up to 1/2” but like you I am good down to about 3/16
Hi Mark, nice idea but to much risk of breaking the stone. Please check the speed of your lathe....2000rpm?....i think its not more than 1000- 1200....just my feel.....
Yeah... just checked it again, it's 1530. As for the stone breaking, this was just a test. I'll have guards over the stone if I perfect the design. I'll also get a better stone.
Your lathe doesn't appear to be running anywhere near to 2000rpm to me... 🤔 I got taught how to sharpen drills using bench grinder, never felt the need to find another way tbh.
The lathe is about 2000. I agree, I have good results by hand unless the drill is less than maybe 3/16. Several viewers have asked me to explore this. I'm not sure it's a good way to do it, I was just exploring the idea.
I was telling a friend about sharpening drills on the lathe. He claimed it would be impossible or hard. I thought it couldn't be worse than hand sharpening drills. Seems I'm not the only person thinking about this!
The lathe was just to test. I didn't want to build with a motor and tool rest and find out my design didn't work. The lathe works great but I don't like grinding abrasives on the lathe.
@@WinkysWorkshop I have a tool post mounted grinder I built and various stones I can mount to it. I also use it with end mills for making interrupted features. I agree about abrasives on the ways. I lay a rag or section of cardboard across them to keep grit off the bed ways. It's mostly seen use like this, but I have put a diamond wheel in the collet a few times too. ua-cam.com/video/rXwu2PFSBIQ/v-deo.html
Hi Winky. This idea is highly "Hairy" I would not advise it. Firstly ALL grinding wheels should have a SOFT Blotting Type Paper between itself and any metal clamping parts, to stop you cracking the wheel. Secondly your are using the wheel in the wrong form, cup wheels which that is are meant to be used on the TOP edge and NOT the inside like you are doing. They are not designed for side loads or grinding internally, only on the end. Regards from Australia.
I totally agree on the mounting. It was mounted on paper on the back side although it didn't have adequate surface area. It's amazing how little information there is on any of these grinding wheels. I looked at least 30 of them and only two said what they were intended for. Apparently they were meant to grinding a weld inside a right angle. One of these two had a 1/2-13 thread for mounting to an angle grinder and was rated at 9,000 RPM. This wheel I bought was rated at 5600 but there is no way I would trust it at that speed even with an adequate and correct mounting method. In fact it might return it simply because it is egg shaped. With that being said, I would not have a problem using a better wheel on the inside for sharpening drills. The forces on the stone at 9,000 RPM grinding a weld would be tremendous in comparison. Of course I would probably run the stone under 5K RPM and have a guard over the top of it which in my opinion would probably make it safer that using it with an angle grinder. But thanks for the info and I'm sure you are correct about it's intended use.
I can appreciate your ingenuity, but why go through all that work? 50 years ago when I was just starting out, an oder coworker that worked for the TWA overhaul base took me aside when he saw me trying to sharpen a bit. He said watch, when they give you two drill bits in the morning and you have two thousand holes to drill you get really good and fast at sharpening by eye. I'm 72 now so I can't really tackle under 1/8" but it is so simple to just do it by hand. I have passed the technique along to many coworkers over the years. Good luck with your project.
I do fairly well sharpening drills, espeically larger bits. I just had an idea and wanted to see if it would work. Plus a few people have asked about sharpeneing drills.
@@WinkysWorkshop You are a go getter, keep going my friend, keeps you young. I've been machining, since I joined the navy in 1968, love it and welding so much when I retired from Bayer in 2009 I built a machine shop in my downstairs. Equipt with all my welders, vertical knee mill, lathe and a ton of tooling I have collected over the years. It gets in your blood, don't ever stop.
Good point but no worries. I brought this lathe back from the grave and I'm not about to let is get destroyed. It was a one time test and the lathe was totally cleaned afterwords.
@@CapnCrusty A drill doctor is likely the most logical. I may or may not follow through with this idea. I have a lot of other project that are probably more fun.
![6 Practical Drill bit Sharpening Hacks !!! [Subtitle]](/img/n.gif)
Interesting experiment. I wonder if you used a properly sized tube as a guide for the bit in place of the angle if it would be easier to hold and less chatter. Did you try truing the stone? Does that stone have any reinforcement in the arbor area? If you clamp down too tight on a bare stone it could shatter. What is the manufacturers stated RPM limit on that stone? Also on your final version add a guard over the stone. You know what those things look like when they come flying apart. A face shield won't save you.
The stone was running 2000 which is fairly slow but you are right. I would not trust it much faster. Its poor quality. I was thinking hex collets with a flange that limited the depth so you could get the same grind depth on both sides. The hex would index the rotational axis. The stone is rated at 6000 in the picture on amazon but this number was left off the stone I received.
A very crafty idea that did work.....an adjustable back stop would allow you to turn the drill to grind both sides equal.
Thanks... I need to think a bit more on this.
I have yet to see one of these cup stones that ran well out of the box. Once you get it tuned up mark the cup and the mandrel and use that mandrel mark dedicating it to whatever chuck jaw you choose. That will help further dressing a bunch. It is always good to visit with you my friend. For a two bit stone and a 70 cent arbor you have a respectable sharpener there. There really is nothing better than a nice sharp and balanced drill bit eh.
Thanks for the suggestion... this was just a test. I need a better stone also.
@@WinkysWorkshop When it comes to stones we really get what we pay for. I had a standing argument with my boss about that and he agreed to a test. The cheaper stones, disks, cut-off wheels were almost twice as expensive as the high end ones. They were ok if handled with Kidd gloves but put them to work and they just fell apart.
@@TomokosEnterprize I don't doubt that
Interesting idea. I can't tell whether you did this or not, but it is very important to use a card disc between the wheel and the clamping surfaces on your mandrel.
I agree, there was paper on the stone but it did not have the support it should have. I'll have to make a different mandrel if I follow through with this idea... and a new stone too, this one was egg shaped.
@@WinkysWorkshop You can just dress a wheel true. Sure that one was wacky but it had a lot of meat on it.
Enjoyed….KOKO…like how you are always thinking design and improvements
Thank you very much! Its fun to do something different.
Hi Mark, you just gave me alot to think about. I would of never thought about using the inside of a flared cup wheel. What you mentioned about feeding a smaller drill bit in and rotating it made a lot of sense. I think that you can work things out to where this will be a big benefit for small homeshop guys like us. I do have a old drill Doctor that is like new, it sharpens 1/8" - 1/2" plus I can purchase a accessory that will grind up to 3/4". This could work very well for those larger bits, once you get use to doing it this method will become easier. For the younger guys who can still see this would work over a wide range of bits. Awhile ago Joe Pie."never can remember how to spell his name" did a video on using a grinding wheel just like that in the milling machine. It was a very interesting video. Maybe a guy could touch up tooling on the mill and a do what you just showed with one grinding wheel. Alot to think about. Thanks Mark
I just looked up Joe Pieczynski's video the title is "Can you grind tools on a milling machine? YES -- take a look !!". So take a look I think that you might say "I like it".
Yeah... it is a lot to think about. This was just to test my theory and for sure not the final solution. I think a collet to hold the drills would be ideal. I've never seen a drill doctor but I understand they use collets.
@@WinkysWorkshop Sorry for the slow reply Mark. I understand what you were doing in this video. There are many routes and degrees of complexity that a person could take with the idea that you showed. The Drill Doctor holds the drill bit similar to a drill chuck, I think that it has six thin steel jaws that hold the bit. It is pretty impressive in my opinion for a tool aimed at the home owner. You put the drill in its holder slide it into a port and then you tighten the chuck, this clocks the drill bit to the holder. After that there is a second port where insert the holder, then you turn it around until it sparks out. If wanted there is a third port you can use to Split the point. The machine is made by and based on the Darex Company's industrial sharpeners.
I got mine while doing some trading. I heard good things about them and was surprised when I used it. It does take a learning curve to get a nice grind. Mine is the original model and takes way to much martial off for touching up a drill. I am planning on using a feeler gauge when I set the drill bit from now on. The new top of the line model has a built in depth adjustment now so that must of been a complaint from costumers. I think that the new one is a great deal considering that you can very easily sharpen 1/8 to 3/4 inch drills for $130 range plus split the point. Replacement diamond cutters are $20 plus you can Sharpen carbide also.
I think that I am going to purchase the 17/32 -- 3/4 holder for mine then set something up based on what you showed for larger drills. Any thing that I do bigger than 3/4 will just be for clearance or to bore out afterwards. I think that I will be set as far as drill bits. Thanks for the video I have been going back and forth on this subject for a while.
Interesting Idea there Mark. Only thing I would add is to cover your lathe bed ways to keep that wheel dust off of them.
I agree... it was a one time test and I cleaned them spotless afterwords.
Great experiment !!! I am lucky to have an old valve refacing machine with some parts missing but what i will need is still intact . I am sure i might pull it off to make it into a drill grinding machine . Thank you for your videos . They are really motivating !!!
Interesting... yes, a valve grinder might work very well! I like it!
A lot of your projects re.ind me of articles from old popular mechanics magazines. Those were incredible in that it allowed people to make tools that they couldn't afford to purchase.
Good magazine and nice compliment. Thanks!
An interesting concept, Mark. I learnt how to sharpen drill bits in high school machine shop on a bench grinder. My son is a licensed machinist and is quite impressed with my ability to free hand sharpen drill bits. I have sharpened many thousands over the years, sometimes having to use what's available, such as angle grinder, chop saw, etc. to get it done.
Yeah... I sharpen my own without issue unless its small and then I get lucky sometimes. A drill doctor is probable a better solution for the small drills. It was just an idea I had to try.
You need a way to index the bit and a depth stop to get a perfect grind. Your idea is good. Some people think that free hand grinding is the way to go but you will never achieve a perfect cutting edge that are the same on both sides and one side will be doing all the work and at the same time be drilling off center.
I totally agree.
Interesting concept probably a better stone would give better results. I'd be concerned with the grinding dust on the lathe ways. I built a 2x72 belt grinder that works great for drill sharpening. Makes it very simple to change to different grit belts when you need to. Thanks for the video. Always more than one way to skin a cat.
Yeah... I cleaned up real well afterword. This was a test, not something to repeat. I have a 2 x 42 belt sander are use all the time and yes, it's amazing for drills (or anything else). I've built two sanders and the second one has a 6 inch drive wheel on a 3450 motor. Totally amazing. Higher speed is more better :o)
1:10 your cutoff tool looks to be working great!
It works great after it has pressure on the blade. When if first starts it chatters a lot.
You do very good work and I enjoy watching you so keep up the good work God bless
Thanks Donald... this was just an idea I was playing with.
Thanks for that Winky - very informative on drill sharpening.
Still a prototype but who knows, thanks for watching
It seems like a stop on the drill would help to make certain that it is sharpened evenly.
I agree... still thinking on this one
Good idea Winky, just needs some tuning, i use my Lathe with Diamond Lapidary disks on a back plate to put a edge on Carbide, but just by Hand.
Cool... the only negative is the dust on the ways.
@@WinkysWorkshop Yes i put some tin foil over them..
Really clever setup
It was an interesting experiment. I may go further with it in the future. Thanks
I would mount the V block "sideways" [make it a < block] so that it doesn't need that adjustment, and add something to help hold bits in place. Such as a "fence" that clamps to the lower face of the
Thanks for the comment but you lost me. I agree about the clamp and indexing.
@@WinkysWorkshop Bob is right, I was going to suggest that but Bob beat me to it. Look at the end of your angle iron, you see an L shape. Now rotate the L 45 degrees and you now have the non vertical 2/3's of a K. Adjust the height and any size bit will now be on center.
@@joerogi8401 Rotating the angle iron to make a V only keeps the point in the same location on the horizontal plan. It might reduce the amount of vertical change but does not eliminate the change. Think about it this way, rotate the angle to make a V. Now align everything perfectly with a 1/4" bit. Now replace the drill with a 3-inch bit. The center of the bit will close to the top of the wheel and not in the same location. If you were sharpening with a belt sander the angles would be the same however not when working with the a curved surface of a stone.
No, not a V but a V on its side. In Bobs original post there are two examples one before the word block and one at the end, a greater than or less than sign. Once the apex is set to the center height the diameter doesn't matter the center of the drill bit is always on height, adjust the carriage and cross slide to locate the other presentations.
You can thank joe for explaining your idea again... you are right
For large drills above 1/2 a vertical belt sander works very well.
Actually that's all i ever use. This was just an experiment.
Mr Winky, rewatching your great video, Thanks again....
Well last night, I decided to turn my DeWalt radial arm saw
into a tool bit and drill sharpener, with a 10 inch precision backing disc mounted to the
arbor...it has abrasive aluminum oxide sanding disc mounted [ on grit on one side, and another
on the other side and runs very true...
[CMT makes the disc for aligning your saw and also as a sanding disc.it is thicker than
a saw blade]
.I use it as a disc sander for shaping metal and demurring also.....and wham, I thought,
why not try and sharpen drill bits and lathe tools, well, the cool thing is , the motor can be tilted in
multiple axis very accurately to the degree I want, and I use a movable aluminum table top [ 1/8" on a 3/4"
plywood base mounted to the bed,
[not the big plywood type used for sawing] so I can lower the disc below grade as
they say.....I can also move the disc in and out in relation to the edge of table with the
movement of motor on the arm. So far, the tool grinding is a big success for off hand
grinding.....I need a little practice for the drill bits.....I will still sharpen my smaller bits
on the drill sharpener I have, [below 3/4"] but the big boys will get the Radial Arm Saw treatment.
for the 30 bucks I paid for the discs and the 20 dollars for the saw, I have a great little machine
that is multi purpose, and it cuts aluminum and wood still.....[note, I got a great deal on the saw
to say the least, they are not appreciated these days.....]
I hope this helps some one......
best wishes, Paul down in Orlando
WOW! That's a fantastic use for a radial arm saw!!! I'm not a fan of these saws but this is a great idea. You could also set a stop on the top rail and do some very accurate grinding. I don't have a radial arm saw but I do have an 8-inch CBN disk. It might be interesting to do something like this on a smaller scale. I have several heavy duty 6 inch dovetailed linier rails just waiting to be used! Ha
@@WinkysWorkshop sending you a Email.....
Could you set your angle iron at 45 degrees so the centre heights would be the same for all diameter drill bits?
Not really. The angles here get confusing but I don't think that would work.
@@WinkysWorkshop I mean instead of a flat base to rest the drills on, you have a 45 degree angle so you have to push them sideways against the corner. It should centre any diameter at the same height then. (hope I'm making sense)
@@JonSpink The tip of the dill still need to be slightly above center and the diameter of the drill world change this.
@@WinkysWorkshop right yes i suppose it would. pity still nice jig anyway.
@@JonSpink It's hard to think about. I had to do the test to get a good feel for the angles. I'll most likely perfect the design.
another great one
Thanks again!
Mr Winky:, not sure if anyone has mentioned, [too lazy to read all comments]
but what if you used a square collet block [5C] to hold your bit so cutting edge is
level to the stone? I used to do that for dubbing drill bits on the vertical mill.
sure made it easy to get a level bit grind on both sides and this would make
it easy for you to move bit in and out from stone.....without out worrying about rotation...
let me know what you think , best wishes, Paul down in Orlando
Maybe... or just a pin in the flute.
Excellent idea 👍.
A step in the right direction but not the final solution. Thanks
Mark I would suggest dressing the inside angle of the stone to the correct angle of the drill.
The stone needed dressing (shaped like an egg) but it matched the drill perfectly. If I dressed the stone to match the angle while going straight in (which I think is what you meant) then I would loose the additional curved clearance behind the cutting edge.
@@WinkysWorkshop My mind tell me that dressing the angle would be no different than dressing the o/d of a wheel on a bench grinder. The curved drop off is created by rotating the drill while grinding. (the same as sharpening the spiral flutes of an end mill You are doing the work so I may be all wet but does what i am suggesting make sense?
@@terrycannon570 In this case the internal curve of the stone takes care of this. No rotating needed.
Better than height adjustment! Something that holds the drill on all sides like a collet would do. The tool holder would get centered once and you never touch it again. Mount the collet like part in bearings or bushings so it can rotate freely around its center line. The relief angle needs to be behind the cutting edge a little. I'm not sure how to do that part right now, but I think if rotated up a little (1-2 degrees) and you could stop rotation beyond a certain point, the relief angle could be created and not impact the cutting edge.
All good ideas and I have thought the same. The relief angle is correct for large drills but not small. Actually, it's correct on the small drills too but only at the cutting edge.
@@WinkysWorkshop Since the whole collet assembly would rotate, a lobe on it 180 degrees apart would lift the drill gradually as the grinder moved away from the cutting edge and create that relief angle. The only critical detail would be mounting a drill in the collet at the right place to match with the lobes. I think some kind of locating pin in the flutes or across their edges could work for that. I think we are on the verge of making a lathe mounted drill sharpener that does a perfect job.
@@de-bodgery We are thinking the same. The collet could even be a hex block drilled to the right drill diameter.
@@WinkysWorkshop Collets expand and shrink in very small amounts. If you have a set of ER32 or ER40 collets...and we both have them...they will precisely hold just about any drill diameter we might want to sharpen. Collet blocks are really cheap in whatever kind you get them. Modifying one to be a drill holder wouldn't offend me very much! I think a square collet block would be better than a hex block since drills have only 2 flutes. Explain why you suggested a hex block?
@@de-bodgery hex is cheaper. :o)
wonderful Video, really enjoyed meeting you a few months ago when you were down here in Florida at the steam show.....best regards from Orlando Paul
Hello Paul, good to hear from you!
@@WinkysWorkshop maybe take a diamond to that wonky wheel to true it up, or something like a Norbide stick, use the compound to feed into the stone....you could use the power feed to square the end, and might not be a bad idea to do the outside also to keep the vibration down, make sure to cover the ways, as doing this makes a lot of abrasive dust, try and only take .001 or less cuts and feed evenly back and forth at the same setting......I do this on my mill and my Black Diamond brand drill sharpener....hope this helps.......that bugger was bouncing all over the place huh....Paul
@@ypaulbrown Yeah... the stone is barely usable. I'll dress it or buy new stone if I perfect this.
@@WinkysWorkshop good idea, looked very scary form down here in Orlando....haha
@@ypaulbrown I agree.
Good idea thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching and you are welcome!
cool idea. hopefully a better stone will get you better results. protect those ways from the abrasive dust, brother!
Yes, I should have had some rags on them. They were cleaned up well after this test.
We had a twist drill sharpener in a machine shop I worked in that had a cup wheel and you put the drill bit into this split block and lined the chisel point up with these two marks in the block. Then you slid the block into the cup wheel and flipped the block over to sharpen the other cutting lip. The block was like a pair of L shape box joint fingers so you could clamp it down on different diameter drill bits. If you can see that. The grind only contacted the inside edge of the lip of the wheel really. There was a straight guide the block slid along too. So you just pushed the block back and forth along that straight guide into the cup and back out again. Zip zip. Was a very expensive little gadget I was told.
Eventually I'll buy a good one.
Just buy a Drill Doctor!😂😂
Nice idea. I might just "borrow" that idea.
Buy a drill doctor? This might be the best approach but not as much fun. I've never seen a drill doctor. I used to work for a printing company that printed magazines. I designed a lot of machine improvements to resolve issues in problem areas. I would avoid looking at commercially available add-on fixes because they would blind me to other possibilities. About half the time I designed a much better fix and the other half I either came up with the same fix or gave up and used a proven fix. I'll eventually look at a drill doctor but only after I think about this some more.
@@WinkysWorkshop Don't waste your money on one! I've had several and I could not get them to work reliably for me at the best of times! they seem to work hit and miss!
@@sparkiekosten5902 I've heard the same about most drill sharpeners. I had a cheap one and it was terrible.
@@WinkysWorkshop They're not perfect but the Bulldog style is an OK cheap bit sharpener. Bulldogs are the ones that pivot around. I'll use a bulldog just to get the cutting edges even. I have mine mounted funny to a face wheel too. They way they tell you to mount it the grinds come out parallel to the edge. I like perpendicular grinds to edges. So I made this wedged shaped block to mount the Bulldog to. You just put a bit into the sharpener and hold the bit to the wheel like how you want it to contact then make something to make that happen. Easy peasy.
@@1pcfred Yeah... I need think more about this one. Thanks
How about having a longer piece of Fingal iron where you can put a stop at the end of the bit so the flutes will come out even
That was supposed to read angle iron, this voice recognition doesn't always print what I say
I got it... yeah, I thought the same but now I am thinking a collet to hold the bits
How about if the angle iron were mounted staight and set the compound to the drill angle?
This is actually the same thing. If you change the angle it just contacts the upper part of the wheel to get the right angle.
Crawl before you walk mate, great thinking and worth exploring to find something new.
Absolutely - I had to try it just to see if I could make the angles match. Time for more thinking.
Even tho I appreciate the thought process and the good work you did,I believe I will stick to the grinder lol. I did purchase a drill doctor to do my small drills cause at 72 years old the eyes ain’t what they used to be hahaha
I've heard the drill doctors are nice but I've never seen one. I understand they have a collet which I think is probably an ideal approach. I do okay grinding by hand but just wanted to try this idea.
@@WinkysWorkshop oh I am NOT disparaging your efforts I think it is a pretty cool idea. I was just saying my personal needs lol. A drill doctor is the only way I can get even and sharp small drills any more. It will do up to 1/2” but like you I am good down to about 3/16
@@jimbennett1519 - No problem, I feel the same.
Crawl before you walk mate, great think and worth exploring to find something new.
Absolutely
Hi Mark, nice idea but to much risk of breaking the stone. Please check the speed of your lathe....2000rpm?....i think its not more than 1000- 1200....just my feel.....
Yeah... just checked it again, it's 1530. As for the stone breaking, this was just a test. I'll have guards over the stone if I perfect the design. I'll also get a better stone.
Your lathe doesn't appear to be running anywhere near to 2000rpm to me... 🤔
I got taught how to sharpen drills using bench grinder, never felt the need to find another way tbh.
The lathe is about 2000. I agree, I have good results by hand unless the drill is less than maybe 3/16. Several viewers have asked me to explore this. I'm not sure it's a good way to do it, I was just exploring the idea.
BUEN TRABAJO AMIGO
Thanks
I was telling a friend about sharpening drills on the lathe. He claimed it would be impossible or hard. I thought it couldn't be worse than hand sharpening drills. Seems I'm not the only person thinking about this!
The lathe was just to test. I didn't want to build with a motor and tool rest and find out my design didn't work. The lathe works great but I don't like grinding abrasives on the lathe.
@@WinkysWorkshop I have a tool post mounted grinder I built and various stones I can mount to it. I also use it with end mills for making interrupted features. I agree about abrasives on the ways. I lay a rag or section of cardboard across them to keep grit off the bed ways. It's mostly seen use like this, but I have put a diamond wheel in the collet a few times too.
ua-cam.com/video/rXwu2PFSBIQ/v-deo.html
I think you need some kind of diamond nib to dress that wheel concentric
yeah, that wheel scares me... very low quality.
Hi Winky. This idea is highly "Hairy" I would not advise it. Firstly ALL grinding wheels should have a SOFT Blotting Type Paper between itself and any metal clamping parts, to stop you cracking the wheel. Secondly your are using the wheel in the wrong form, cup wheels which that is are meant to be used on the TOP edge and NOT the inside like you are doing. They are not designed for side loads or grinding internally, only on the end. Regards from Australia.
I totally agree on the mounting. It was mounted on paper on the back side although it didn't have adequate surface area. It's amazing how little information there is on any of these grinding wheels. I looked at least 30 of them and only two said what they were intended for. Apparently they were meant to grinding a weld inside a right angle. One of these two had a 1/2-13 thread for mounting to an angle grinder and was rated at 9,000 RPM. This wheel I bought was rated at 5600 but there is no way I would trust it at that speed even with an adequate and correct mounting method. In fact it might return it simply because it is egg shaped. With that being said, I would not have a problem using a better wheel on the inside for sharpening drills. The forces on the stone at 9,000 RPM grinding a weld would be tremendous in comparison. Of course I would probably run the stone under 5K RPM and have a guard over the top of it which in my opinion would probably make it safer that using it with an angle grinder. But thanks for the info and I'm sure you are correct about it's intended use.
I can appreciate your ingenuity, but why go through all that work? 50 years ago when I was just starting out, an oder coworker that worked for the TWA overhaul base took me aside when he saw me trying to sharpen a bit. He said watch, when they give you two drill bits in the morning and you have two thousand holes to drill you get really good and fast at sharpening by eye. I'm 72 now so I can't really tackle under 1/8" but it is so simple to just do it by hand. I have passed the technique along to many coworkers over the years. Good luck with your project.
I do fairly well sharpening drills, espeically larger bits. I just had an idea and wanted to see if it would work. Plus a few people have asked about sharpeneing drills.
@@WinkysWorkshop you had a great idea, I sincerely hope you perfected it. It always helps when you can speed things up.
@@jackbonanno8186 Thanks Jack, yeah... maybe a good idea. A lot faster would definitally be better.
@@WinkysWorkshop You are a go getter, keep going my friend, keeps you young. I've been machining, since I joined the navy in 1968, love it and welding so much when I retired from Bayer in 2009 I built a machine shop in my downstairs. Equipt with all my welders, vertical knee mill, lathe and a ton of tooling I have collected over the years. It gets in your blood, don't ever stop.
@@jackbonanno8186 Sounds like a nice shop. I need a good welder. Thanks
Winky, that's the worst thing you can do to your lathe (short of a crash). I like the concept, but cover those ways please. Thanks for the video.
It was a one time test and believe me, everything was cleaned up after the test.
By golly, I think it will work!
Maybe... just messing around with ideas.
just curious where the stone came from
China but I bought it on amazon. Terrible quality
👍👍👍
Thanks
KEEP THINKING ABOUT IT YOU'LLCOME UP WITH SMOETHING, YOU ALWAYS DO,.
Yeah I might... the comment that say, "just buy a drill doctor" are unknowingly encouraging me to perfect this design.
A good way to destroy a lathe
Good point but no worries. I brought this lathe back from the grave and I'm not about to let is get destroyed. It was a one time test and the lathe was totally cleaned afterwords.
Looks like a lotta messing around for a 2 minute job on a pedestal/ bench grinder.
I agree, I have good results by hand unless the drill is less than maybe 3/16.
Spindle needs to turn 10K RPM or higher to grind well, but hey, not bad!
10K is good but the stone is only rated at 6K. I don't think I'd trust it past 3450. This thing is terrible quality.
If you just want to sharpen drill bits, buy a Drill Doctor.
Sounds logical, however, given enough time I might come up with a better drill sharpened. I've never seen one which gives me a possible advantage.
@@WinkysWorkshop They give you perfect new points in just a matter of minutes, but if you're interested in the challenge then carry on.
@@CapnCrusty A drill doctor is likely the most logical. I may or may not follow through with this idea. I have a lot of other project that are probably more fun.