They put 200 million into the game then decided it wasn't for the modern audience and put another 200 million to convert it to the modern audience and the modern audience came and bought it and it went bankrupt
One would have needed competent parents to teach them selflessness in order to ask this question. A great step would be to realize one is no more important than most people who have ever lived or the ones coming after you. Instead, we embrace vain, post-camera self-obsession like the queen in Snow-White.
I could believe they spent $400M on it if they thought it was going to make 1 billion annually like overwatch. I could believe they thought it would be huge, even though it's obvious to all of us that it'd be a failure. The industry is completely out of touch with the consumer.
speaking of vanity. a saying goes. ''vanitas vanitatum et omnia vanitas'' said as in english described: vanity of vanities, all (is) vanity : earthly life is ultimately empty. all we do is ultimately fruitless to the universe and reality. its all about appealing to ourselves and our person that we are. even if its not entirely about the topic. it does fit into its crazy we genuinely care so much when we could live far happier not thinking we have to appeal to our vanity in all the ways we do.
"I find it hard to beleive" Why? The game has been in development for 8 years. if you take 400 million and divide it by 8 that leaves you at 50 mill per year on average. Firewalk is based out of seattle, a rather expensive city, if we average the salaries out at about 120k (some will make more some will make less, but this is a good average in my experience), that would cover about 400 employees per year. Factor in consultants, marketing budgets, , a massive hiring ramp up towards the end of development to push it out the door, the insanely huge credits section, not to mention inflation, is it really that hard to believe they burned through 400m in 8 years?
I forgot that FW was based in Seatle. When I saw how agonizingly long the credits roll was (at least 30 minutes), it pretty much confirmed to me of the staff bloat as well.
Why would people ask if they’re wrong when it’s too incredibly easy to find people somewhere on social media that agree with them? In some ways it feels like humanity is devolving.
personally, the world population could expand tenfold and all of them could agree with me, and i would still be thinking i am wrong about the vast majority of things i think and say. xD because when i was around 5-6 yrs old, a voice appeared in my head and it never left. and 90% of the time all it does is say ''you're a moron, you know right? cause only a moron could be this wrong about that.'' this voice is a great asset, and i would not want to be without it. xD
Honestly, it really doesn't feel that farfetched. Spiderman 2 cost over 300mil to make and the next Spiderman Game is estimated to cost over 350Mil. That's a singleplayer game. Yes licensing will play a big role in the cost of the game, but I doubt that's the bulk of the cost, Considering the First Spiderman game reportedly cost under 100Mil to make. (Add another 40 Mil or so for the remake) Licensing or no, it's not going to cost over 200mil to just secure the IP rights for the second game. Within that context, it's really not that crazy to assume Concord cost ~400Mil in total, including both pre and post acquisition. Not to mention it's a multiplayer game that requires additional people/competencies and was a live-service type game, meaning they started working on future content prior to the release already. To be clear, I completely agree that the amount of money spent is outrageous. There are some really bad decisions being made and money being wasted on things that don't matter. But that's neither here nor there. Ultimately the 400 Mil estimate/leak/assumption, could potentially not be true, but it's not unreasonable to assume it is real, given the available information. It's a reasonable assumption to make. Sony "only" spending 200 Mil can still be true even with the new information coming in, since the 400 Mil was described as being the total cost of the game.
Sony spent nearly 400 millions in Spider Man 2. A reeskin of the first game. It`s hard to believe, but it`s possible that they had spent all this money. Specially if you ad othe projects related to Concord like the Amazon animation that will be launch.
I watched until the end, I never considered your vids a "fast-food" content. You bring an interesting perspective to a lot of things. As long as you're not talking about WoW and how amazing it is now and how they fixed everything we ever wanted just because they slightly improved the storytelling :D
i disagree with you on the building, i just think it is financial and access to builders and techniques that could make something "permanent". But, i do enjoy hearing your ideas, so i am subing. you make a good point about Concord not likely being 400K. its a good argument, but it is still possible since the stupid factor in business has been really high, but still a much needed counter argument.
I hope this "gaming winter" was ironic. There are bunch of games coming out next month, Until Dawn, Silent Hill 2, Metaphor Refantazio, Failguard. Cristiano Ronaldo will be in the next Fatal Fury. Is nothing really happening or is it just me?
You dropped this video. That is usually enough to peak my interest. I may agree or disagree with what you say but I am nonetheless interested. When it come to WoW characters, female, dark skinned or sexual orientation I am somewhat disturbed by a bit of laziness on Blizzard's part. My classic example of this are the many darkskinned characters with no backstory of WHY they exist. Yes I know, inclusion and all that but just spawning them from nowhere make no sense. Here on Earth dark skinned people have some kind of roots in a tropical region, typically Africa but we see this in places like the Aboriginals in Australia as well. This could be fixed however and it would not be tokeism anymore. For female characters however they have always been common in WoW. As such misogyny is probably rare on Azeroth even if it CAN happen like in troll lore.
Til the end , but i have nothing else to do so hhh, wait so you are sayin the world is not black and white is just a lot of grey, how dare you sir hhh.Ou ppl forget to communicate,have discussions,they just screaming "their truth",and nobody is wrong even or apologize for anything..well no i am in shock , very sad world we live in .But few things are clear Concord was total mess costing way too much,and do not worry few more woke dei flops and its gonna be better times for all of us.
It seems like you did not realy listen to what he said in the Video when you consider every Point, yes, 400Million is reasonable. But yeah only if it is true.
@@AccolonnTV When you have a high EGO Boss and a toxic workplace this can happen and yes they are very stupid. When you realy believe that this IP will become the next Star Wars, that implys you will get much more Money out of it, 400million is not much money when you think you make 10 times as much back.
I watched until the end :) I know it's not a common critique/compliment content creators are likely to hear but I appreciate how consumable lots of your content is as an audio-only listener. I tend to use video game discussions/longform video essays as audio fodder to pass the day while I'm at work. Frankly the only reason I got to send this comment is because I happen to be on break. Thanks for allowing your content to be so digestible even to us!
I do the exact same thing, so I genuinely just decided to have that be the format I shoot for. I hate when there's information on screen that isn't talked about cause then I need to stop doing my main task and focus on the video instead.
As it is said, the $400 million is true then it is Sony spending $200 desperately trying to fix the game. What the real truth is here will probably come to light eventually.
I can imagine a scenario where they copied Overwatch more carefully with sexier designs, but suddenly Sony came in and decided to scrap everything for the designs we have now. That could cost easily 100 million.
They could have spent about $300m even without Sony coming in and spending another $200m to "Fix the game". Buying out a studio, paying off influencers, doing various other marketing, buying servers, all of this costs money. Buying out a studio just for this game could have cost them a lot more than $300m. If they can't produce a profitable game in the next 5 years or so, they could be in the hole for much more than that. Remember when Microsoft bought Minecraft for $2.5 billion? Imagine if they couldn't sell the game, couldn't make a movie, couldn't sell merchandise, etc. That's a LOT of money to lose. So I don't know how much money they are in the hole on this studio, but it's actually probably a lot more than $300m or even $400m.
Simple. They cant believe they are wrong. They truly cant fathom it as they have convinced themselves that everyone is woke like them and that its only 1% of people who dont agree with them. When you talk to these people instead of fighting with them you get to truly see how delusional they truly are.
Thought I'd just drop this here to help with the engagement algorithm. Day 1 of quitting smoking cold turkey, its been 8 hours since I woke up and I have yet to crave a cigarette.
Toxic positivity in WoW? That really suprises me. I haven't played it in a decade but back in classic/bc/wotlk everyone had at least one reason to be mad ad blizzard.
Most of the people who were mad at Blizzard left leaving mostly stans. I played for a bit a couple of years ago and almost got removed from a casual guild that I was raid leading for because I simply told a player "(insert name her) get out of the fire and stack up with us" as a reminder because often people, especially casual players can forget what to do in the chaos. Apparently that was toxic and I shouldn't speak to people like that.
4 дні тому
@@Vandassar you should have left that guild instantly, you were pulling dead weight
The only reason I even joined that guild was because my GF and a few buddies were already in and I was only even playing WoW at the time was due to peer pressure from them. "you used to be a raider, you can help us!", only to go in and find that they were struggling on normal mode. I've done my bit for charity and I'm now retired. lol
I ask myself that from time on various subjects, just to make sure I am not just parroting other people's ideas and that my beliefs and ideas still hold true. Thing is, when it comes to gaming especially, nowadays most people who hold views opposed to my own make it incredibly easy to reaffirm myself that yes, I am indeed still right. Just one look at the insanity they preach and practice is enough to dispel all doubt about who's correct.
"Insane ramblings," you say? I might concede the "ramblings" part, but certainly not "insane" by any stretch of the imagination. There are some who still have an appreciation for and value rational discourse. 👍
If you don't believe that they put 400m why don't you ask yourself if you're wrong? Have you considered, that they produced way more than what we saw? They wanted to have a lot of cut scenes? Could they have been produced cut scenes for the next year or so? Where they already working on additional content? Were there merch or special editions like that Controller already produced? What did that episode for that amazon show cost them? What about the server costs? All in all 400m doesn't seem stupid, if you think about all the stuff that we will never see. If it's true that sony thought that this will be huge, they already started putting money into all sorts of stuff that will never lead to any kind of profit and is therefore lost.
@@AccolonnTV budgets for games and films/tv shows have been bloating for years, and imo it’s not due to standards getting higher, it’s simply incompetence, toxic work culture, activism before common sense or logic and so on. I might be wrong, but I’d bet that most lead developers working on concord are political activists, that live in bubbles on the internet and see all and any criticism as an insult, unprofessional, self entitled cunts. 8 years for a game with not a single original concept, with as much content as any other live service, a minimum viability product. See, in corporate environment, especially nowadays, it doesn’t matter how good you are at your job, but what ethnicity/gender you are and what are your politics. Disney has been spending hundreds of millions on their rubbish too, if a film’s budget can be 300+ million, is it surprising that a video game that has been in production for nearly a decade would cost 400? The truth is that this figure is substantially higher, like others said, Sony was heavily investing in other things concord.
The thing is right wingers are the reason left wingers exist. Neither side of the debate is right. Both are very wrong. Left tries to overcompensate the wrongdoings of the previous generations while right tries to leave the status quo because they are afraid of change. Both sides do have merits but they are too stuborn to try and find the common ground. The issue is not vanity, it's not a lack of faith or belief in any god, the issue lies in fact that it is sooo difficult for people to admit they are wrong, to change something they are used to and just start changing things. Most issues aside from some diseases could be resolved incredibly fast, but because individual people would feel some kind of discomfort and would have to sacrifice something in their lifes (mostly some time and excess private resources) that will never happen.
4 дні тому
"Right wingers are just as bad as the left wingers" - terminally online woke person that is afraid of the mirror in his house.
I can totally see them spending US$400 million dollars on a massive flop! They decided to move to California and reject their Japanese routes, then increase the price of the base PS5 and sell the PS5 Pro for even higher prices (￥119980 = US$835.38) than the rest of the world! Sony is absolutely out of touch with reality and cannot comprehend the value of money, the value their hardware brings to the table, the cost of making GOOD games or how much it is reasonable to spend developing something! They definitely spend those US$400 millions thinking they would get that investment back! Even if that number is inflated, somewhere around US$350 millions is perfectly reasonable for their stupidity!
12:28 I'll agree with that. It's one of the reasons I don't see "right wing/grifter/fascist/bigots/any other known insult" causing the audience to say X or Y. If it was the case they'd be able to say their opinion and everybody would always agree
"Am i out of touch? - no, it's the children who are wrong" ~ The Simpsons
Beat me to it. Take my like..and like it!
They put 200 million into the game then decided it wasn't for the modern audience and put another 200 million to convert it to the modern audience and the modern audience came and bought it and it went bankrupt
The modern audience they are targeting don't have jobs so they cant buy the game anyway.
One would have needed competent parents to teach them selflessness in order to ask this question.
A great step would be to realize one is no more important than most people who have ever lived or the ones coming after you.
Instead, we embrace vain, post-camera self-obsession like the queen in Snow-White.
I could believe they spent $400M on it if they thought it was going to make 1 billion annually like overwatch.
I could believe they thought it would be huge, even though it's obvious to all of us that it'd be a failure. The industry is completely out of touch with the consumer.
speaking of vanity. a saying goes. ''vanitas vanitatum et omnia vanitas'' said as in english described: vanity of vanities, all (is) vanity : earthly life is ultimately empty.
all we do is ultimately fruitless to the universe and reality. its all about appealing to ourselves and our person that we are. even if its not entirely about the topic. it does fit into its crazy we genuinely care so much when we could live far happier not thinking we have to appeal to our vanity in all the ways we do.
"I find it hard to beleive"
Why?
The game has been in development for 8 years.
if you take 400 million and divide it by 8 that leaves you at 50 mill per year on average.
Firewalk is based out of seattle, a rather expensive city, if we average the salaries out at about 120k (some will make more some will make less, but this is a good average in my experience), that would cover about 400 employees per year.
Factor in consultants, marketing budgets, , a massive hiring ramp up towards the end of development to push it out the door, the insanely huge credits section, not to mention inflation, is it really that hard to believe they burned through 400m in 8 years?
I forgot that FW was based in Seatle. When I saw how agonizingly long the credits roll was (at least 30 minutes), it pretty much confirmed to me of the staff bloat as well.
@@humrH2360 aren’t the credits over an hour?
@@italianspiderman5012 Anywhere from >30 to >1 hour, though I've been told that the latter is when the credits were slowed down.
Why would people ask if they’re wrong when it’s too incredibly easy to find people somewhere on social media that agree with them? In some ways it feels like humanity is devolving.
personally, the world population could expand tenfold and all of them could agree with me, and i would still be thinking i am wrong about the vast majority of things i think and say. xD
because when i was around 5-6 yrs old, a voice appeared in my head and it never left. and 90% of the time all it does is say ''you're a moron, you know right? cause only a moron could be this wrong about that.'' this voice is a great asset, and i would not want to be without it. xD
love the ramblings, i usually do watch till the end
Honestly, it really doesn't feel that farfetched. Spiderman 2 cost over 300mil to make and the next Spiderman Game is estimated to cost over 350Mil.
That's a singleplayer game. Yes licensing will play a big role in the cost of the game, but I doubt that's the bulk of the cost, Considering the First Spiderman game reportedly cost under 100Mil to make. (Add another 40 Mil or so for the remake) Licensing or no, it's not going to cost over 200mil to just secure the IP rights for the second game.
Within that context, it's really not that crazy to assume Concord cost ~400Mil in total, including both pre and post acquisition.
Not to mention it's a multiplayer game that requires additional people/competencies and was a live-service type game, meaning they started working on future content prior to the release already.
To be clear, I completely agree that the amount of money spent is outrageous.
There are some really bad decisions being made and money being wasted on things that don't matter. But that's neither here nor there.
Ultimately the 400 Mil estimate/leak/assumption, could potentially not be true, but it's not unreasonable to assume it is real, given the available information. It's a reasonable assumption to make.
Sony "only" spending 200 Mil can still be true even with the new information coming in, since the 400 Mil was described as being the total cost of the game.
Sony spent nearly 400 millions in Spider Man 2. A reeskin of the first game.
It`s hard to believe, but it`s possible that they had spent all this money. Specially if you ad othe projects related to Concord like the Amazon animation that will be launch.
I watched until the end, I never considered your vids a "fast-food" content. You bring an interesting perspective to a lot of things. As long as you're not talking about WoW and how amazing it is now and how they fixed everything we ever wanted just because they slightly improved the storytelling :D
But storytelling is everything I ever wanted. I don't raid or do dungeons so when I say they fixed things I really am just talking from my pov
Yeah. Coomplaining works. Helldiver 2 proof that if you persists on complaining. Dev might listen.
I mean this is the company that was convinced people wanted a rerun of Morbius. I can believe they are this dumb.
I watched until the end myself. It is a question many don’t ask.
So true, and thank you.
i disagree with you on the building, i just think it is financial and access to builders and techniques that could make something "permanent". But, i do enjoy hearing your ideas, so i am subing. you make a good point about Concord not likely being 400K. its a good argument, but it is still possible since the stupid factor in business has been really high, but still a much needed counter argument.
400mil makes sense doing some math, just 18months payroll of 150 staff, 75k thats 200mil
@@mrturbo84 Yeah this guy is a complete idiot
I hope this "gaming winter" was ironic. There are bunch of games coming out next month, Until Dawn, Silent Hill 2, Metaphor Refantazio, Failguard. Cristiano Ronaldo will be in the next Fatal Fury. Is nothing really happening or is it just me?
Failguard 😂 Yes indeed.
It's meant as a joke.
Simple because the developers who doubt their creations don't exude the unlimited overconfidence needed to get funded.
I watched till after the end
The more you know, the more you know you don't know shit.
You dropped this video. That is usually enough to peak my interest. I may agree or disagree with what you say but I am nonetheless interested.
When it come to WoW characters, female, dark skinned or sexual orientation I am somewhat disturbed by a bit of laziness on Blizzard's part. My classic example of this are the many darkskinned characters with no backstory of WHY they exist. Yes I know, inclusion and all that but just spawning them from nowhere make no sense. Here on Earth dark skinned people have some kind of roots in a tropical region, typically Africa but we see this in places like the Aboriginals in Australia as well. This could be fixed however and it would not be tokeism anymore. For female characters however they have always been common in WoW. As such misogyny is probably rare on Azeroth even if it CAN happen like in troll lore.
what is misogyny?
good video!
🇿🇦 keep it up.
Til the end , but i have nothing else to do so hhh, wait so you are sayin the world is not black and white is just a lot of grey, how dare you sir hhh.Ou ppl forget to communicate,have discussions,they just screaming "their truth",and nobody is wrong even or apologize for anything..well no i am in shock , very sad world we live in .But few things are clear Concord was total mess costing way too much,and do not worry few more woke dei flops and its gonna be better times for all of us.
It seems like you did not realy listen to what he said in the Video when you consider every Point, yes, 400Million is reasonable. But yeah only if it is true.
No, I listened to it, hence why I said I'm skeptical. I am not saying he is lying, just that it seems incredibly stupid if true.
@@AccolonnTV When you have a high EGO Boss and a toxic workplace this can happen and yes they are very stupid. When you realy believe that this IP will become the next Star Wars, that implys you will get much more Money out of it, 400million is not much money when you think you make 10 times as much back.
First here!
I watched until the end :)
I know it's not a common critique/compliment content creators are likely to hear but I appreciate how consumable lots of your content is as an audio-only listener. I tend to use video game discussions/longform video essays as audio fodder to pass the day while I'm at work. Frankly the only reason I got to send this comment is because I happen to be on break.
Thanks for allowing your content to be so digestible even to us!
I do the exact same thing, so I genuinely just decided to have that be the format I shoot for. I hate when there's information on screen that isn't talked about cause then I need to stop doing my main task and focus on the video instead.
Sure, 400 Million sounds very unbelievable. But the same goes for an hour of credits for a game like this.
As it is said, the $400 million is true then it is Sony spending $200 desperately trying to fix the game. What the real truth is here will probably come to light eventually.
I can imagine a scenario where they copied Overwatch more carefully with sexier designs, but suddenly Sony came in and decided to scrap everything for the designs we have now. That could cost easily 100 million.
Fewer credits than Spiderman 2, Forbidden West, and TLoU2 but apparently 2x more expensive. Colin Moriarty is a dumb grifter
@@bigbox1431 did they also spent 8 years in dev hell? And yes, that doesnt mean its confirmed.
@@LxAxE It wasn't in development for 8 years lol. A dev already confirmed this ya doof
They could have spent about $300m even without Sony coming in and spending another $200m to "Fix the game". Buying out a studio, paying off influencers, doing various other marketing, buying servers, all of this costs money. Buying out a studio just for this game could have cost them a lot more than $300m. If they can't produce a profitable game in the next 5 years or so, they could be in the hole for much more than that. Remember when Microsoft bought Minecraft for $2.5 billion? Imagine if they couldn't sell the game, couldn't make a movie, couldn't sell merchandise, etc. That's a LOT of money to lose. So I don't know how much money they are in the hole on this studio, but it's actually probably a lot more than $300m or even $400m.
Simple. They cant believe they are wrong. They truly cant fathom it as they have convinced themselves that everyone is woke like them and that its only 1% of people who dont agree with them. When you talk to these people instead of fighting with them you get to truly see how delusional they truly are.
Thought I'd just drop this here to help with the engagement algorithm.
Day 1 of quitting smoking cold turkey, its been 8 hours since I woke up and I have yet to crave a cigarette.
Bro, get it done. Good luck.
Good luck my man, It's not an easy road. Stay strong.
From my ~20 years of on/off WoW experience, there are no women left.
$400MM/$200MM does it matter. To me the real news is the toxic positivity and who was watching the store.
Definitely agree with that.
Toxic positivity in WoW? That really suprises me. I haven't played it in a decade but back in classic/bc/wotlk everyone had at least one reason to be mad ad blizzard.
Most of the people who were mad at Blizzard left leaving mostly stans. I played for a bit a couple of years ago and almost got removed from a casual guild that I was raid leading for because I simply told a player "(insert name her) get out of the fire and stack up with us" as a reminder because often people, especially casual players can forget what to do in the chaos. Apparently that was toxic and I shouldn't speak to people like that.
@@Vandassar you should have left that guild instantly, you were pulling dead weight
The only reason I even joined that guild was because my GF and a few buddies were already in and I was only even playing WoW at the time was due to peer pressure from them. "you used to be a raider, you can help us!", only to go in and find that they were struggling on normal mode.
I've done my bit for charity and I'm now retired. lol
I ask myself that from time on various subjects, just to make sure I am not just parroting other people's ideas and that my beliefs and ideas still hold true.
Thing is, when it comes to gaming especially, nowadays most people who hold views opposed to my own make it incredibly easy to reaffirm myself that yes, I am indeed still right. Just one look at the insanity they preach and practice is enough to dispel all doubt about who's correct.
The world was such a different place 8 years ago. It is crazy to think they made that long reaching of a decision.
What is this wrong you speak of 😂🎉
"Insane ramblings," you say? I might concede the "ramblings" part, but certainly not "insane" by any stretch of the imagination. There are some who still have an appreciation for and value rational discourse. 👍
I appreciate those people.
Algorithm
If you don't believe that they put 400m why don't you ask yourself if you're wrong?
Have you considered, that they produced way more than what we saw? They wanted to have a lot of cut scenes? Could they have been produced cut scenes for the next year or so? Where they already working on additional content? Were there merch or special editions like that Controller already produced? What did that episode for that amazon show cost them? What about the server costs?
All in all 400m doesn't seem stupid, if you think about all the stuff that we will never see. If it's true that sony thought that this will be huge, they already started putting money into all sorts of stuff that will never lead to any kind of profit and is therefore lost.
I did, which is why I said I'm open to it, I am simply skeptical.
@@AccolonnTV budgets for games and films/tv shows have been bloating for years, and imo it’s not due to standards getting higher, it’s simply incompetence, toxic work culture, activism before common sense or logic and so on.
I might be wrong, but I’d bet that most lead developers working on concord are political activists, that live in bubbles on the internet and see all and any criticism as an insult, unprofessional, self entitled cunts. 8 years for a game with not a single original concept, with as much content as any other live service, a minimum viability product. See, in corporate environment, especially nowadays, it doesn’t matter how good you are at your job, but what ethnicity/gender you are and what are your politics.
Disney has been spending hundreds of millions on their rubbish too, if a film’s budget can be 300+ million, is it surprising that a video game that has been in production for nearly a decade would cost 400? The truth is that this figure is substantially higher, like others said, Sony was heavily investing in other things concord.
The thing is right wingers are the reason left wingers exist. Neither side of the debate is right. Both are very wrong. Left tries to overcompensate the wrongdoings of the previous generations while right tries to leave the status quo because they are afraid of change. Both sides do have merits but they are too stuborn to try and find the common ground. The issue is not vanity, it's not a lack of faith or belief in any god, the issue lies in fact that it is sooo difficult for people to admit they are wrong, to change something they are used to and just start changing things. Most issues aside from some diseases could be resolved incredibly fast, but because individual people would feel some kind of discomfort and would have to sacrifice something in their lifes (mostly some time and excess private resources) that will never happen.
"Right wingers are just as bad as the left wingers" - terminally online woke person that is afraid of the mirror in his house.
I can totally see them spending US$400 million dollars on a massive flop!
They decided to move to California and reject their Japanese routes, then increase the price of the base PS5 and sell the PS5 Pro for even higher prices (￥119980 = US$835.38) than the rest of the world!
Sony is absolutely out of touch with reality and cannot comprehend the value of money, the value their hardware brings to the table, the cost of making GOOD games or how much it is reasonable to spend developing something!
They definitely spend those US$400 millions thinking they would get that investment back! Even if that number is inflated, somewhere around US$350 millions is perfectly reasonable for their stupidity!
12:28 I'll agree with that. It's one of the reasons I don't see "right wing/grifter/fascist/bigots/any other known insult" causing the audience to say X or Y. If it was the case they'd be able to say their opinion and everybody would always agree