I left the Mormon church when I was 21 year-old -- that was nearly 50 years ago. I had to discover who I was a what I believed. There was no support available for my decision. I fell far and picked myself up again and again, but I never regretted my decision to leave. It is gratifying to see the exodus now taking place. I understand the anger felt my many who leave, but once you get past that you can find true freedom. The most important things I have learned during this journey are: Be true to yourself first, then you can be true to others, and the Kingdom of God is really within each of us waiting to be discovered. Jesus said, "Know ye not that ye are Gods?" Anything that puts a layer between the individual and their access to God and personal power is a lie. You don't need a church or philosophy outside of yourself to find God. The church leaders talk about the "still small voice" but they really don't teach you how to access it effectively and continuously because they want you to look to the religion for your answers. That's how they keep the money flowing in. God and the power of God is within YOU. Think about that...
Thanks for your sincerity, Clay. The church has to take the position that there is no such thing as an honorable discharge from membership. Don't let that bother you too much. You have the respect of myself and so many who have left the church led by a conviction for truth and a sincere conscience.
Thanks for posting these, John. I left the Church after coming to them with personal struggles with "sin" and their help was hold a disciplinary council and I was disfellowshiped as a result. Six months into trying to work my way back I realized I wasn't happy and stopped going. I became happier and my wife, who remained devout, saw the healthy change in my life and left as well. It's heartbreaking how punitive and vengeful the church is to good members with struggles. It's totally not what Christ would do. These are good people who have been devout who are reaching out for help and the Church is responding in the worst way.
Chris - I appreciate your candor so much. My situation was completely the same! I needed the church and its leaders during a deeply painful 'sin' period and divorce. All I got was disfellowshipped and behavior evaluations (interviews to see if I was compliant). I needed emotional, mental, and relational help. I finally left.
Anger is one of the steps of the grieving process, and losing your entire life's identity after realizing it was all a lie will certainly spark some massive grieving. The church telling people they can't be angry about this or that because it means you don't have the Spirit, or it's going to drive it away, is so damaging, mentally healthy speaking.
I'm in the process of removing my records from the church. I broke away 6 years ago. It has led to a divorce, hurt anger and frustration. However, I have felt God in my life more in these 6 years than ever. People have come into my life and have unknowingly answered questions I was having during my faith crisis. I currently have a son serving a Mission for the church in Africa, I don't discuss anything to do with the church. I just love him and hope that he will learn and grow. Not in relation to the church but find himself. His father and that side of his family have made some difficult hurtful things. This in turn has put my children in a position of chosing him over me, by offering blessings and religion as the foundation of life. I struggle greatly with my kids. I love them dearly. It hurts to have this division. I feel more Christ like, now than ever. I feel so peaceful. Now I'm seeking for a church to go to that supports my love of God.
Clay and Matt, your stories hit home. I’ve had my doubts for a very long time and never did anything about it..too afraid of stirring things up with my wife and kids...I too grew up in the church and now after 40 years, I’m finally getting the courage to dig up the facts...it’s so disappointing! I feel betrayed by the church. Really hoping for a positive outcome as I get closer to making my final decision! Thanks for sharing your experiences! ✌️👍🏼😇
Cesar, pray for wisdom as you move on this. The enemy's desire is to now break up your family. It happens most often. Dont let it! Then the extended family gets somewhat involved. Be ready. God speed.
What I love about Clay is that his demeanor is what my stereotypical view always was of the studly Mormon authoritarian figure. He shows here that that demeanor is absolutely not exclusive to the church. In other words, he's a stud with or without the church.
Another amazing interview. All your podcasts helped me. I struggle daily. Know that you made a huge difference in my life and journey and I am very grateful
Great interview from a Great man! Clay, thank you for sharing your journey out of mormonism and hopefully you choose to share more of your stories with us, i'm very interested! PLEASE continue spreading the word that the church is false and there is life without it. You can do it with a sincere almost regret to inform others it isn't real and those are the facts, like it or not without the bitter hate that turns off many searching for answers. Older members will find it easier to hear it from a a older dignified gentleman like you rather than a brash vulgar youtuber ranting in a video. You can help so many more people Clay, if you continue doing interviews and videos, please reconsider. I wish you happiness in your life and all your future endeavors a success!
These stories seem to be here for people going through a faith crisis. These videos are to help them know that several people have gone through, are going through, and will go through. Thanks for your work and dedication to helping exmormons and the like come out. Thanks for all your work, and to all who read this.
Clay, Thank you for sharing your story. I am Re-investigating the Church and close to making a decision to leave. I am 40 years a convert but, must side with TRUTH. I don't see myself as losing my testimony but as gaining the TRUTH.
Thanks for the interview. Clay, you are very brave. If someone like you can leave this false church then anyone can leave. In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.
Right on, Bros. Even before the internet became a part of our collective bloodstream the information was already out there. Even early on it still didn't take much digging for me and others to find out about the polygamy issue, e.g. and the Roll Call of Joseph Smith's wives. Just plain old studying, reading out of the Entire Quad and being good old human curious, I obtained several Bibles to check things out and just with that found out that "hodgepodge of doctrines". No, I'm not Molly Mormon Memory or Super Scholar. It is ordinary stuff. There are passages in the Bible about GOD not being a respecter of persons vs the Lamanites, Blacks not having the priesthood at one time and women being 2and class citizens etc. The biggest thing that kept sticking out to me was THE ONE TRUE GOD. So why haven't we been able to find that planet Kolob? If all that so called progressions business were true why aren't people eventually traveling or haven't folks periodically been doing interplanetary travel on a more routine basis. SETI has still been getting just static. Besides, nothing in the Bible about a bigger GOD or a bigger bigger GOD or a bigger bigger bigger GOD. Why is the Bible about the continuity of one big story through many books and the mormon scriptures and the "prophets" all over the place with changing doctrine and practices that end up contradicting each other.???????????? Right.
Dr. John, I have a question for you, Sir. Since some of the Smith family were well read on all sorts of things, why in Heck weren't they able to keep their facts straight and even worse, apparently not even able to, or not even care to keep their facts aaaaannd fiction straight?? I keep getting the words Defective Filter in mind about JS.
Clay I have been feeling so many different emotions since finding Mormonstories and listening about your journey in the church. I am a return missionary from years back and have lost my faith in the church. I realize all these years that most of us have been fed the vanilla version of Mormonism. Most of the things I taught to people on my mission were not true. It crushes me to know that now. I am kinda lost right now. Your pod cast have been of great help to me. I want you to know that. I greatly admire your courage and I am glad you and your family are happy now. I know I believe in Christ and will follow him and see where he leads me.
+Mike Langley "...I believe in Christ and will follow him and see where he leads me." - Doesn't sound like you're lost to me! Or more specifically, it sounds like a former part of you is lost - the part of your self-identity, concept of faith, cultural identity and sense of purpose, which was tied to being Mormon. That part very much is lost. And you may possibly lose friendships and/or some family from your life. That was the hardest part to me. But if in the process you grow and evolve and become someone - something - new, what a nice journey you're on.
God Bless you, too. I've been studying the Mormon faith and culture for just about 10 years now, and although it's sad to see Clay going through this, as I'm sure it was for you, too, I can't help but know that Christ is in our midst. He is and always shall be. As Orthodox Christians, we often say this to each other, because it truly reminds us that when two or more are gathered together in His name, He is here in our midst. And now, for a coffee toast to those who love it! For all the rest, I can't leave you out of my prayers. God Bless. Christ is risen! Truly He is risen!
It's fine not to believe many don't or are inactive and have nothing to do with the church but just as long as you don't advertise those concerns to a wide audience then that's when the trouble starts.
It's ironic that Joseph Smith never even followed the WoW. He drank and smoked and violated it all. There wasn't as much refined food back then as today, but I have no doubt that he ate whatever rich food that he wanted to.
Hay. And then, you woke up. Haha. Christ is risen! Truly, my heart goes out to all of you who've recognized just how much you've been lied to, and it's so sad, because Mormons are such good people. It's just that their faith has been so misguided. As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, (I.E. Greek Orthodox, Russian, Romanian, ETC.) I've been studying what people of other faiths believe, because I'm here to relate to others as Christ did. I'm not here to put other faiths down, though, and that's important, because Christ reached people through the truth. We're just wrapping up the 5th week of Pascha featuring the story of the Samaritan woman. She learned that Christ knew everything about her, and he told her everything she needed to know. What's more, he confirmed that she had no husband at that time, but also that the man with whom she was staying wasn't even her husband. This greatly convicted her, but she knew that it was for the truth's sake. This was the only way she could repent and follow Him. She would later be named Fotini which means little light, and she and her family would become martyrs of the Holy Faith. Ever since I came to this Holy Church, I found the fullest expression of the truth here on Earth, and there's plenty of evidence that the Holy Bible is true. We still use the original Bible which has 76 books. God be with you, and I hope we'll meet one day. Take care. And, Glory be to God who has shown us the light!
Joseph Smith wanted a political empire where he was dictator. What better way to accomplish that then to use religion and a corps of blind followers willing to obey his every command. That would include letting him fornicate with their wives.
Thankyou for this Clay and John. I enjoyed hearing from you . I left a year ago. I have no one really to talk to bout this, so your post here is helping me with this. I am with you Clay. I still believe in Jesus, and God the Source of everything. I believe in being as good as you can be and passing it on. I have also developed a taste for Coffee -only I can only cope with 1 cup a day. As for the Ex-communication; It is all part of the religion, which has nothing to do with where you are now. May you grow and prosper.
Catriona, please dont do this alone. There are beuatiful Bible believing churches out there to be apart of. If its too soon, i understand. But get a Bible, and read it for yourself. His truth is there for you. Seek after Him with all your heart and you will find Him. No man has to teach you, the Bible says the Holy Spirit will teach you. And finding a good Bible based Church is so that you can continue to grow and have support around you and you be support to others. It's a culture shock for sure! LOL I've been through that myself. I've been out 18 years now. I'm a former 6th generation Mormon. And I'm so thankful to be out of the Mormon religion. It is far from the truth and God has granted you and I His grace and mercy. Please know the enemy will not lay low and want you to draw close to the Lord. Stay in much prayer and rejoice because He has led you out. Use this experience to empower you. Don't wear a victim label- That's what Satan wants you to do. Do not be depressed. You may very well go through the stages of grief and that's okay and healthy to do so. Just don't get stuck. May God bless you and keep you on your journey.❤
@@elizabethking5523 Well put, Sis. I also add keep reading, then pray ,read again, rinse, repeat. Sometimes, though, like Clay said, it can be quite a process and I, too, was in positions where I couldn't speak up and experienced a few threats as well. Probably the worst breeding ground for crap like this is isolationism.
Clay, my husband and I left in 1999 along with 6 of our 8 kids. 2 years ago yet another son and his wife and kids have resigned as well. They left on their own research, and we're happy for them. We all truly believe that Jesus Christ came and got us out of a seriously false church. Those that leave the LDS Church, may be called apostates, but according to the Bible, we are actually God's Elect. It's so wonderful to go to our community church and hear strictly about the Bible and our Savior, instead of 30 minutes of "church business" and how "super-duper" Joseph Smith was as a prophet! Prayers for you and your family and Matt and Laurie and their family XO XO
I agree. It is so hard to trust another church. Has any Christian church excommunicated a member of Christ? All I have ever felt from Christian church's is that everyone is broken and that is why we are here. That's why Christ died for us. Excommunication is evil. Not Christ-like.!
@@silvereagle4903 the children's rapper could hang around, as long as his beats were dope, and of course assuming he solemnly covenants to only rap faith promoting content around the primary kids. NO CHURCH HISTORY. 😎
@@silvereagle4903 that is actually an excellent question. Makes me think of that Ephesians procedure. Maybe one of our favorite true scholars could elucidate. Wonder if Dr. John could do a podcast with Cloud and Townsend about Biblical boundary setting.
The mormon church is acting dishonorable by making false claims. Those of us who leave, we leave for an honorable reason...because we stand for facts and truth and are not concerned about being shunned.
While some are trying to fix their lives... others want to destroy others. Live your life bro. Be happy and if make you feel unsatisfied, leave. Just leave... why revolve your life on this?
Hallelujah, the veil has been lifted from your eyes. Praise the lord. Waste no more valuable time worrying what any man thinks of you. 50 years is ENOUGH. Run to Jesus, hes been waiting for you all this time. He loves you and your family UNCONDITIONALLY. Isnt that fantastic. xxx
Scott Bub - I wrote to your “Scott madeup “ account. Just wanted you to know Saints Unscripted hides all my comments now too. Like you I didn’t say anything mean but they banned my skepticism.
Any organisation has the right to fire their employees if they do not live by the company's rules. BUT a church that claims the name of Jesus Christ does not have the right to treat people the opposite of what Christ did and unfortunately the church does not behave like Jesus Christ and they have no right to claim that name.
I have to say I think Clay is a very inspired man in such a good way! I really respect his desire for truth. If humans are going to sit down in a church and take the time to listen to speakers every Sunday! They deserve to know they are receiving messages that are truly uplifting to their souls! And when he or she thinks they’ve been hoodwinked by a religious organization that isn’t coming forth in a clear way to give answers that their soul yearns for! It just becomes a no-brainer to ask questions until you get answers. If that religious organization doesn’t answer their questions they deserve to go to learning groups to get those answers! But the mormon church is not giving answers to the very basic questions about the starter of the LDS Church. We were given songs that are saying “Praise To The Man” !But we find out that how can you praise the man when the book of mormon has no artifacts, no Hebrew DNA! When you study the BoM in the correct way it becomes so obvious that it is a fraud it is like looking up at the sky on a sunny day and say there is no sun! Every active member deserves that kind of truth!
Thank you Clay for sharing your story. I’m 64 and I’m going through what you have had although I’ve not been contacted by my Bishop I’ve just come to grips that the church is a big lie and it’s so deflating and insulting. And I’m carrying this on my own right now. Happy trails buddy
I left the church several years ago but have always missed the Mormon culture. Why don't we apostates create an organization with all the good things about the Mormon church and just leave out the doctrine.
The church is really like a club with dues and gossip. If you start with a prayer and have people talk about their testimony of leaving the cult and what they want to do now it could be great! I love funeral potatoes!!
@@marilynkennedy8236 I read the original historical documentation, which outlined that after church services (when people gathered for socialisation) several women had complained regard the smell of cigar smoke on account of the men who gathered to imbibe alcohol ! In retaliation the men then complained re the smell of coffee and chatter coming from the women. So to keep the peace, the men were banned from smoking and drinking alcohol and the women from drinking coffee/ tea and idle chatter. I also accessed the historical documentation whereby the President of the USA and the mormon Church had a stand off re black people and the priesthood! Eventually they were given a same day deadline ( race riots were already taking place) that if they did not comply, they would lose their tax free charitable status. After heated discussion and 15 minutes to go the mormon president conceded on account of the $000000000 they would have had to pay. So they then put out a statement that God had forgiven all black people and they could share the priesthood. Now you know why the church stipulates that you are sinning/ apostating if you dare to seek the Truth. One Truth will lead you to another and finaly (unless completely indoctrinated) your own discernment and God given intuition will show you the long suppressed truth and history of the mormon ( and many many more churche) that are nothing more than corporate financial institutions. You will Love God and Jesus all the more for being Free 🙏🏻 God Bless all of you who have still to find out these truths, but you WILL overcome having been deceived and be better people for having had your own awakening
@@lorrettacrowley5922 Thank you Loretta. It is surely a strange church, it scared me when I saw a You Tube video once where someone had recorded a secret ceremony it bothered me for a long time. It is no wonder people in the church are living in fear.
If the Book of Abraham were true it would have been the most important record in the history of western culture. "It is better that one man should perish than a nation dwindle in unbelief" was the justification for the murder of Laban and the theft of the brass plates. This would set the precedent for church possession of the Abraham scroll. Brigham Young did not hesitate to use violence. If Brigham Young believed the scroll was real, he would have killed to get it. Brigham Young did not believe the scroll was real, and that's why the scroll disappeared for 100 years.
Audio cuts out multiple times. I got half of what he said. I think I got the gist of it but I agree with this. I left so that I could *stop* doing drugs. Yes, after 11 yrs of being addicted to heroine and failing 'My God' over and over, I finally began true recovery only after leaving the church and it's completely *just* repentance process. Now I am 7 months clean (longest ever) and more spiritual and closer to my God than ever now.
I'm glad I found this comment 6 years later. I too had a serious drug problem and shortly after denouncing the church and its teachings I was able to get a better grip on the reality of what I was doing to my self because of my faulty belief system. I now run a business and have learned to love my self unconditionally.
I've never understood how anyone can choose a church over their families. Never. My husband is inactive and I'm not a member. Some of his family are practicing, but we just don't talk about it. If the missionaries come by, we invite them in and talk to them. I went through the discussions years ago because it was a custody issue with his kids and I was doing what I could get them with us. So they come by every once in a while. I'm very nice to them, but I always just tell them the church is not for me, and I leave it at that. I believe their life is hard enough without getting into all of this.
No "true" chuch should be so hard to leave that you need to through an attorney to resign! No "true" church should divide families. No "true" church should require so much financial support from parishioners that it grows richer while the the parishioners struggle financially...
Funny, I was just reading that page in NMKMH today. Finished it again for the second time tonight. Really great read and I feel a very fair and accurate summation of Joseph Smith.
clay is a wonderful and totally honest man, it is very sad indeed that so many men and women just like Clay are leaving the church in there thousands Men like Clay and John Dehlin should re organise there own church for all former Mormons, they have lost so much the reformed church would be a safe place for ex Mormons and would be self financing and teach the truth there are so many good people out rhere that need to congregate together For the good of all I pray that this will happen God bless you all
Faith in the Church? No Jesus did not teach that we should have faith in a church. We should have faith in Him. Coffee? Good grief. People suffering everywhere and we are concerned about Coffee. Have faith in Jesus and He will see you safely through.
Sounds like the biggest disservice the Mormon Church does is it destroys a person's faith in anything outside of the Mormon Church. Praying that this family has found a way to worship Jesus in a community of believers.
Thank you guys. Years ago I gradually left over time because as time went on I was duct taping more and more layers of a rotten onion. Another dealbreaker. I am a woman too. Clay. LOVE your hieroglyphic mug. Awesome!
"I just sinned on camera, and it feels great" lol! :) EDIT: There's a lot of interesting stuff in this video. Thanks for the book recommendation, Clay! My library has that Joseph Smith bio in stock. I also never knew about Swedenborg. I enjoyed this podcast interview!
"I no longer believe in the Mormon Church." Mormon church, "How dare you, we are going to use our magic powers to kick you out of the church, and condemn you, by the power of our magic powers that don't actually do anything visible, and that you just told us you don't believe in. That will show you."
That’s the cutest part of this interview, when Clay mentions how his wife noted that no-one in the church has a “priesthood-led family.” The authority doesn’t mean anything to someone who leaves and is ready to leave. But, it can still sting, especially if it’s done in a cruel way.
If you miss attending church on sunday, I found that studying for a deeper understanding of the virtues helped. Virtues like respect for example. "Respect is when you honor the light in your own self and seeing it in another, it becomes a profound form of love." Also, fearlessness, purity of heart ,humility, selfless service without thought of reward, honesty, love, etc.. When we seek truth, we have heard His knock at the door and
I also want to suggest that while becoming One with the Lord is a metaphysical transformation the Lord is referred to as being feminine by the Jews as the name for the Holy Spirit in Hebrew is She.kinah. This is not widely understood and naturally men may get their wires crossed and be gay in their efforts when they understand oneness of Holy Spirit is to be part of a Heavenly masculine Father which is not the case as the Holy Spirit is undifferentiated!
They “offered” to ex-communicate me because I knew the church was NOT true. I argued that I didn’t do anything wrong and requested (demanded ) to have my name removed from their rolls. I am no longer a member however they did not ex-communicate me.
It's from section 89 of the Doctrine and Covenants. The D&C was supposedly a collection of revelations Joseph Smith received directly from God as a means of organizing the church at the time. The Word of Wisdom was a health code recommended to members at the time. It was later made a requirement in the early 20th century.
I could listen to Clay talk forever. He knows his stuff and he's excited about it! Clay needs his own series in the Mormon Stories family of podcasts! Maybe an in depth analysis of each section of the ces letter and the fair debunking, then Jeremy's debunking of fair? Just a million dollar idea 😉
As I hear all of these stories of people finding their way, I am extremely grateful for my knowledge & practice of my culture, which is immersed with spirituality 🙏🏼 the early church should have taken lessons from the natives already here aligned with the Trinity 😉
just goes without saying that if Joseph Smith and lied about his storybook novel, and was a false prophet then so is the religious organization he founded. there is no middle ground.
Clay, I understand completely that you are not willing to join another church. You were able to "vet" Joseph Smith and his teachings.These events were in our recent past. I'm sure that if the internet was available when I joined the church in 1970, I never would have joined. But, there is no way to vet the Bible or any other so called holy book. I don't buy it that something is true simply because it's in the Bible. You take what is good from where ever you find it and leave the rest. I believe in some higher power and purpose for life here on earth but I don't believe we have to join a club with passwords etc. to be loved by our creator. Thank you for your podcast.
I will say what no one else is saying: I obviously really like Clay, but I find his defensiveness about the historical Jesus & the Bible (whilst claiming the binary black/white truth thing, which I highly agree with) frustrating.. I hope the deconstructs that nonsense soon - it doesn't matter how 'nice' Jesus was - there are thousands of gods throughout global history, & he was the son of none of them. Tell him to look up Canaanite religion if he's so interested in ancient history. It just discourages me from his whole testimony of "I don't care what it is, but I'm only gona believe in truth". Really liked him so much! What a lovely man! But just sat here a little nonplussed.
"This action is being taken due to information received that you have been involved in conduct unbecoming of the church." Conduct Unbecoming is a low grade violation in the Military, police and fire, similar to acting unprofessional. Viewed as subjective. LDS was remiss in specificity. This also goes to show how they failed to conduct an investigation and gives the impression that someone told the LDS about Clay. LDS was pissed at the podcast.
Pat on the back to the father for supporting his kids. My father never did confess the church wasn't true, even though he was Jack. I think he had just invested too much into it.
Mormonism doesn't have a monopoly on righteousness. You can be an upright and just person outside of Mormonism. As for priesthood authority, there are ACTUAL Levites still living. Jews STILL ask the question "Cohen (priest), Levi (Levite), Israel(ite)?" annually.
There is a such thing as ‘righteous anger’. I believe there is a scripture where Jesus says that when you get angry, just do it without sinning. To me it means that he knows there are things to get angry about, but just control how you react to it so that you don’t do something rash, like hurt someone, etc. He has every right to be angry when we’ve all been lied to.
I'm glad I'm not anyone noteworthy in terms of Church membership. The church is extremely harsh if anyone knows about your lack of faith--something our leadership and Darth Vader hold in common lol
About an hour ago, right here on UA-cam, on a Mormon site called "Stories of the Restoration," I watched and listened to a Mormon teacher with a serious and straight face describe Adam Ondi Ahman in Jackson County Missouri as being near the site of the Garden of Eden. It is also where the New Jerusalem site from where Jesus will rule subsequent to the second coming, which is apparently (still) coming very soon. Further exploration revealed that nearby in Jackson County, Mo is also where Noah built his ark and collected two of each species. He says it all in a matter of fact tone that it is just beyond question it is all true because Smith said so. Forget the total lack of evidence for the BofM, forget the seer stone in a hat, forget the phony translation of the Book of Abraham, forget all the CES letter. Just on the basis of this "Stories of the Restoration,"alone, how in the hell can anyone who has the intelligence to dress themselves in the morning actually believe this nonsense?
I remember a speech given by one of the high and holy comparing Emma and Hyram Smith's wife.... Boy there weren't any good words spoken about poor old Emma, and after all the bullshit that woman had to live with.....
Your a true child of God, Our family left our church because of the darkness under the Light, Jesus says If you love anyone more them Christ your not worthy of Him, Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life. We know He is the Truth, The Mormon church, The Catholic Church, The baptist, etc etc are not the way. Jesus is. Love you
Honestly have to chuckle a bit when John uses words like "ally", "heroically", and "power" to describe Clay's experience in leaving the church. Then he uses the words "true colors" to denigrate the church and the excommunication process. Reminds me of political ads...hey, life will be great by choosing me, and by the way, let's focus on the horrific faults of my opponent.
I totally agree that people are generally good. We are all made from God love and naturally will all go back to ❤️ love in our journey. Thank you for sharing you story!!
it's impossible to obtain spiritual truth through reading literature for the purpose of establishing facts using common sense, reasoning and logic. many people think they can use the SCIENTIFIC method for knowing God's truth. it simply does not work that way in God's world.
It wasn't a job where you'd be losing a severance package, so I guess it makes no difference. Members pay them. If you see no point in pretending to believe for whatever your reasons were and it no longer makes you happy, good for you. But all rational people in the church aren't crazy enough to believe this stuff either for the most part, going all the way up. They still have reasons to pretend and did what they because they were required to do this to you to keep up the pretense. Your outspokenness forced their hands. I agree though, the church should allow people to be at whatever level they want in public or private without risk of public shame. Most other mainstream religions allow blatant dissension without such draconian intervention, but it's the way its set up.
It is episodes 616 and 617. Matt and Clay were interviewed together. 616 is Matt, Clay's brother in law, explaining how lonely he has been since he stopped believing 13 years ago. 617 is Clay telling his story. I found Clay's episode to be wonderful. I'm really glad Matt now has a compatriot in the family.
From Australia [ aussie ] greetings....I was interested in Clay's response as to what and why he had left, now I know....I stop no man nor woman who has lost their faith for whatever reason they have to leave,it is voluntary to join and the same to leave.....I am amazed at how quickly people forget Joseph's history 1:18-20 and D+C 122:1-3....Yes I understand their concerns in the leadership of the church, I do but as NO MAN is infallible even as Elder Oaks said even if they are wrong, do not question them......Very unwise to state that, very unwise and arrogant!......Yet where is the testimony from the Spirit for the things you knew to be true and for truth,go? Cursed is he that puts his trust in the arm of flesh!
+mormons son "Cursed is he that puts his trust in the arm of flesh!" - Please cite evidence for your insinuation that this is what Clay did. The church culture appears to have taught you well to denigrate the character of those who leave.
writerteacher1 The quote was posted as ALL [ lds ] have known by the spirit that Joseph and the restoration is from God.....Where is the room to doubt and who were they listening to , to doubt? Was it from man or God? I have not denigrate the character of Clay Christensen...Where do YOU see I have? WHY NOT READ MY post?
+mormons son OK 'Yet where is the testimony from the Spirit for the things you knew to be true and for truth,go? Cursed is he that puts his trust in the arm of flesh!" So now apparently you're saying that the "you" was not referring to Clay? Are you saying that you are not insinuating that Clay "put his trust in the arm of flesh"? If the "you" did not refer to Clay (which is highly illogical in context of your response) is the following sentence somehow not referring to Clay? That makes no sense either. As I understand your words there is a clear insinuation that Clay "put his trust in the arm of flesh".
writerteacher1 I repeat, I stop no man nor woman who has lost their faith for whatever reason they have to leave...having typed this the Spirit of the Lord would not make a person doubt his or her faith but 2 people, the devil and some one else? Where is the room to doubt and who was he listening to , to doubt? Was it from man or God? If not from God then man or even worse the devil? But the devil cannot be blamed for everything, man his/her makes choices also. God cannot lie, if God has/had testified by his spirit then why lose faith? If he no longer believes God then he is left to himself and his own understanding and wisdom and eventually the light fades and becomes darkened just as any other mortal man, trying to cling to the light he once had? As I understand your words there is a clear insinuation that Clay "put his trust in the arm of flesh"....WELL allow me to tell you, you are wrong, and you don't understand....read what I just posted. by the way what do you call home? baptist , evangelical, catholic-ism, orthodox-ism, voodooism, what?
mormons son "If he no longer believes God..." - He believes in God. He said so. This is why an insinuation that he put his trust in the arm of flesh is a form of denigration. Clay identified himself as a Christian. "WELL allow me to tell you, you are wrong, and you don't understand....read what I just posted." - You keep saying I'm wrong. So, if you are not accusing him of putting his faith in the arm of flesh, what specifically are you saying? Do you accept as valid and honest that he believes in God and is Christian? Do you accept as valid and honest that his basis for leaving the church had nothing at all to do with putting his faith in the arms flesh? If so, why are you making posts about putting one's faith in the arm of flesh? I owe you no details about myself for you to also denigrate (likely while denying that you are engaging in denigration).
If the church isn't true then what is? What's going to happen after this life? What's the purpose of it all? The church had answers and now it doesn't? What's going on
I don't know. And it's okay to not know. The church never had the answers to what happens after we die, they just thought they did because of Joseph Smith's lies. You sound like you might be going through a faith crisis at the time of this comment? Sorry if I'm mistaken, and I know this comment is over a year old, but I know how hard it is to go through that so if you're still struggling and want to talk let me know. If not, sorry to bother you.
"There are no two men that are more Christlike than my Bishop and my Stake President" ??? I believe he means morally upright, kind, gracious, etc, but the *FACT* is, you can't peddle heresy and damnable heresy and be *CHRISTLIKE* !
I left the Mormon church when I was 21 year-old -- that was nearly 50 years ago. I had to discover who I was a what I believed. There was no support available for my decision. I fell far and picked myself up again and again, but I never regretted my decision to leave. It is gratifying to see the exodus now taking place. I understand the anger felt my many who leave, but once you get past that you can find true freedom. The most important things I have learned during this journey are: Be true to yourself first, then you can be true to others, and the Kingdom of God is really within each of us waiting to be discovered. Jesus said, "Know ye not that ye are Gods?" Anything that puts a layer between the individual and their access to God and personal power is a lie. You don't need a church or philosophy outside of yourself to find God. The church leaders talk about the "still small voice" but they really don't teach you how to access it effectively and continuously because they want you to look to the religion for your answers. That's how they keep the money flowing in. God and the power of God is within YOU. Think about that...
Thankyou for sharing this. I hope it helps those finding their way out.
For many, the support is important.
Clay’s interview inspired me to ask the MORMON church to remove me from their records. Never looked back since. Thanks Clay and John Dehlin!
Thanks for your sincerity, Clay.
The church has to take the position that there is no such thing as an honorable discharge from membership. Don't let that bother you too much. You have the respect of myself and so many who have left the church led by a conviction for truth and a sincere conscience.
Thanks for posting these, John. I left the Church after coming to them with personal struggles with "sin" and their help was hold a disciplinary council and I was disfellowshiped as a result. Six months into trying to work my way back I realized I wasn't happy and stopped going. I became happier and my wife, who remained devout, saw the healthy change in my life and left as well. It's heartbreaking how punitive and vengeful the church is to good members with struggles. It's totally not what Christ would do. These are good people who have been devout who are reaching out for help and the Church is responding in the worst way.
Chris - I appreciate your candor so much. My situation was completely the same! I needed the church and its leaders during a deeply painful 'sin' period and divorce. All I got was disfellowshipped and behavior evaluations (interviews to see if I was compliant). I needed emotional, mental, and relational help. I finally left.
Good for you Clay! Its normal to be angry when we find out that we've been lied to by somebody we trusted.
Anger is one of the steps of the grieving process, and losing your entire life's identity after realizing it was all a lie will certainly spark some massive grieving. The church telling people they can't be angry about this or that because it means you don't have the Spirit, or it's going to drive it away, is so damaging, mentally healthy speaking.
i came home in the same month his son did for depression and panic disorder. holy crap i have never felt such relief in my entire life
I'm in the process of removing my records from the church. I broke away 6 years ago. It has led to a divorce, hurt anger and frustration. However, I have felt God in my life more in these 6 years than ever. People have come into my life and have unknowingly answered questions I was having during my faith crisis. I currently have a son serving a Mission for the church in Africa, I don't discuss anything to do with the church. I just love him and hope that he will learn and grow. Not in relation to the church but find himself. His father and that side of his family have made some difficult hurtful things. This in turn has put my children in a position of chosing him over me, by offering blessings and religion as the foundation of life. I struggle greatly with my kids. I love them dearly. It hurts to have this division. I feel more Christ like, now than ever. I feel so peaceful. Now I'm seeking for a church to go to that supports my love of God.
Clay and Matt, your stories hit home. I’ve had my doubts for a very long time and never did anything about it..too afraid of stirring things up with my wife and kids...I too grew up in the church and now after 40 years, I’m finally getting the courage to dig up the facts...it’s so disappointing! I feel betrayed by the church. Really hoping for a positive outcome as I get closer to making my final decision! Thanks for sharing your experiences! ✌️👍🏼😇
Cesar, pray for wisdom as you move on this. The enemy's desire is to now break up your family. It happens most often. Dont let it! Then the extended family gets somewhat involved. Be ready. God speed.
God Bless you!!! I pray everyday for my son and his family that the blinders come off and too see the light!
What I love about Clay is that his demeanor is what my stereotypical view always was of the studly Mormon authoritarian figure. He shows here that that demeanor is absolutely not exclusive to the church. In other words, he's a stud with or without the church.
Another amazing interview. All your podcasts helped me. I struggle daily. Know that you made a huge difference in my life and journey and I am very grateful
Great interview from a Great man!
Clay, thank you for sharing your journey out of mormonism and hopefully you choose to share more of your stories with us, i'm very interested! PLEASE continue spreading the word that the church is false and there is life without it. You can do it with a sincere almost regret to inform others it isn't real and those are the facts, like it or not without the bitter hate that turns off many searching for answers. Older members will find it easier to hear it from a a older dignified gentleman like you rather than a brash vulgar youtuber ranting in a video.
You can help so many more people Clay, if you continue doing interviews and videos, please reconsider. I wish you happiness in your life and all your future endeavors a success!
These stories seem to be here for people going through a faith crisis.
These videos are to help them know that several people have gone through, are going through, and will go through.
Thanks for your work and dedication to helping exmormons and the like come out.
Thanks for all your work, and to all who read this.
Clay, Thank you for sharing your story. I am Re-investigating the Church and close to making a decision to leave. I am 40 years a convert but, must side with TRUTH. I don't see myself as losing my testimony but as gaining the TRUTH.
Thanks for the interview. Clay, you are very brave. If someone like you can leave this false church then anyone can leave. In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.
Right on, Bros. Even before the internet became a part of our collective bloodstream the information was already out there. Even early on it still didn't take much digging for me and others to find out about the polygamy issue, e.g. and the Roll Call of Joseph Smith's wives. Just plain old studying, reading out of the Entire Quad and being good old human curious, I obtained several Bibles to check things out and just with that found out that "hodgepodge of doctrines". No, I'm not Molly Mormon Memory or Super Scholar. It is ordinary stuff. There are passages in the Bible about GOD not being a respecter of persons vs the Lamanites, Blacks not having the priesthood at one time and women being 2and class citizens etc. The biggest thing that kept sticking out to me was THE ONE TRUE GOD. So why haven't we been able to find that planet Kolob? If all that so called progressions business were true why aren't people eventually traveling or haven't folks periodically been doing interplanetary travel on a more routine basis. SETI has still been getting just static. Besides, nothing in the Bible about a bigger GOD or a bigger bigger GOD or a bigger bigger bigger GOD. Why is the Bible about the continuity of one big story through many books and the mormon scriptures and the "prophets" all over the place with changing doctrine and practices that end up contradicting each other.???????????? Right.
Dr. John, I have a question for you, Sir. Since some of the Smith family were well read on all sorts of things, why in Heck weren't they able to keep their facts straight and even worse, apparently not even able to, or not even care to keep their facts aaaaannd fiction straight?? I keep getting the words Defective Filter in mind about JS.
I wished I could double like this. I've rewatched Matt and Clay's interviews. Brave souls.
I can't imagine Jesus "excommunicating" all these people. That should mean something.
Not only that; They claim to take away all one's "blessings." Them... Not God. They make that decision. Men.
Clay I have been feeling so many different emotions since finding Mormonstories and listening about your journey in the church. I am a return missionary from years back and have lost my faith in the church. I realize all these years that most of us have been fed the vanilla version of Mormonism. Most of the things I taught to people on my mission were not true. It crushes me to know that now. I am kinda lost right now. Your pod cast have been of great help to me. I want you to know that. I greatly admire your courage and I am glad you and your family are happy now. I know I believe in Christ and will follow him and see where he leads me.
+Mike Langley "...I believe in Christ and will follow him and see where he leads me." - Doesn't sound like you're lost to me! Or more specifically, it sounds like a former part of you is lost - the part of your self-identity, concept of faith, cultural identity and sense of purpose, which was tied to being Mormon. That part very much is lost. And you may possibly lose friendships and/or some family from your life. That was the hardest part to me. But if in the process you grow and evolve and become someone - something - new, what a nice journey you're on.
God Bless you, too. I've been studying the Mormon faith and culture for just about 10 years now, and although it's sad to see Clay going through this, as I'm sure it was for you, too, I can't help but know that Christ is in our midst. He is and always shall be. As Orthodox Christians, we often say this to each other, because it truly reminds us that when two or more are gathered together in His name, He is here in our midst. And now, for a coffee toast to those who love it! For all the rest, I can't leave you out of my prayers. God Bless. Christ is risen! Truly He is risen!
So not believing the truth claims of the LDS church is a sin worthy of being excommunicated. Fascinating.
It's fine not to believe many don't or are inactive and have nothing to do with the church but just as long as you don't advertise those concerns to a wide audience then that's when the trouble starts.
You have glowing healthy skin and hair ... You have guts too. What a guy. ..✝ So happy you found the truth
I walked out on Mormonism a little over a year ago. Since then I have discovered that I love coffee too! Colombian is the best for me.
It's ironic that Joseph Smith never even followed the WoW. He drank and smoked and violated it all. There wasn't as much refined food back then as today, but I have no doubt that he ate whatever rich food that he wanted to.
Hay. And then, you woke up. Haha. Christ is risen! Truly, my heart goes out to all of you who've recognized just how much you've been lied to, and it's so sad, because Mormons are such good people. It's just that their faith has been so misguided. As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, (I.E. Greek Orthodox, Russian, Romanian, ETC.) I've been studying what people of other faiths believe, because I'm here to relate to others as Christ did. I'm not here to put other faiths down, though, and that's important, because Christ reached people through the truth. We're just wrapping up the 5th week of Pascha featuring the story of the Samaritan woman. She learned that Christ knew everything about her, and he told her everything she needed to know. What's more, he confirmed that she had no husband at that time, but also that the man with whom she was staying wasn't even her husband. This greatly convicted her, but she knew that it was for the truth's sake. This was the only way she could repent and follow Him. She would later be named Fotini which means little light, and she and her family would become martyrs of the Holy Faith. Ever since I came to this Holy Church, I found the fullest expression of the truth here on Earth, and there's plenty of evidence that the Holy Bible is true. We still use the original Bible which has 76 books. God be with you, and I hope we'll meet one day. Take care. And, Glory be to God who has shown us the light!
Joseph Smith wanted a political empire where he was dictator. What better way to accomplish that then to use religion and a corps of blind followers willing to obey his every command. That would include letting him fornicate with their wives.
Joe Smith was the Donald Trump of his day in certain ways...
Charles Mendeley Joseph Smith was an liar and thief
Thankyou for this Clay and John. I enjoyed hearing from you . I left a year ago. I have no one really to talk to bout this, so your post here is helping me with this. I am with you Clay. I still believe in Jesus, and God the Source of everything. I believe in being as good as you can be and passing it on. I have also developed a taste for Coffee -only I can only cope with 1 cup a day. As for the Ex-communication; It is all part of the religion, which has nothing to do with where you are now. May you grow and prosper.
Catriona, please dont do this alone. There are beuatiful Bible believing churches out there to be apart of. If its too soon, i understand. But get a Bible, and read it for yourself. His truth is there for you. Seek after Him with all your heart and you will find Him. No man has to teach you, the Bible says the Holy Spirit will teach you. And finding a good Bible based Church is so that you can continue to grow and have support around you and you be support to others. It's a culture shock for sure! LOL I've been through that myself. I've been out 18 years now. I'm a former 6th generation Mormon. And I'm so thankful to be out of the Mormon religion. It is far from the truth and God has granted you and I
His grace and mercy. Please know the enemy will not lay low and want you to draw close to the Lord. Stay in much prayer and rejoice because He has led you out. Use this experience to empower you. Don't wear a victim label- That's what Satan wants you to do. Do not be depressed. You may very well go through the stages of grief and that's okay and healthy to do so. Just don't get stuck. May God bless you and keep you on your journey.❤
@@elizabethking5523 Well put, Sis. I also add keep reading, then pray ,read again, rinse, repeat. Sometimes, though, like Clay said, it can be quite a process and I, too, was in positions where I couldn't speak up and experienced a few threats as well. Probably the worst breeding ground for crap like this is isolationism.
Clay, my husband and I left in 1999 along with 6 of our 8 kids. 2 years ago yet another son and his wife and kids have resigned as well. They left on their own research, and we're happy for them. We all truly believe that Jesus Christ came and got us out of a seriously false church. Those that leave the LDS Church, may be called apostates, but according to the Bible, we are actually God's Elect. It's so wonderful to go to our community church and hear strictly about the Bible and our Savior, instead of 30 minutes of "church business" and how "super-duper" Joseph Smith was as a prophet! Prayers for you and your family and Matt and Laurie and their family XO XO
I agree. It is so hard to trust another church. Has any Christian church excommunicated a member of Christ? All I have ever felt from Christian church's is that everyone is broken and that is why we are here. That's why Christ died for us. Excommunication is evil. Not Christ-like.!
Excommunication is evil. Not Christ-like.!===== Would you allow an un-repentant mass murderer to remain, how about a rapper of children?
@@silvereagle4903 the children's rapper could hang around, as long as his beats were dope, and of course assuming he solemnly covenants to only rap faith promoting content around the primary kids.
NO CHURCH HISTORY. 😎
@@mintd8365 Joseph Smith raped Fanny Alger
that's what religion does for people. Convinces you that you are sick and offers the cure. It's horrible.
@@silvereagle4903 that is actually an excellent question. Makes me think of that Ephesians procedure. Maybe one of our favorite true scholars could elucidate. Wonder if Dr. John could do a podcast with Cloud and Townsend about Biblical boundary setting.
The mormon church is acting dishonorable by making false claims. Those of us who leave, we leave for an honorable reason...because we stand for facts and truth and are not concerned about being shunned.
Most are so brain washed and busy with their family and calling they never notice and if you point it out they say, "well nobody's perfect!"
While some are trying to fix their lives... others want to destroy others. Live your life bro. Be happy and if make you feel unsatisfied, leave. Just leave... why revolve your life on this?
Hallelujah, the veil has been lifted from your eyes. Praise the lord. Waste no more valuable time worrying what any man thinks of you. 50 years is ENOUGH. Run to Jesus, hes been waiting for you all this time. He loves you and your family UNCONDITIONALLY. Isnt that fantastic. xxx
Clay's first interview saved me from having a mental breakdown after I started my faith crisis.
Hi Sarah, that is why we do these, to help one another. Greetings to you. Hang in there. We will get out of this together.
Me too Sarah!!!
Thanks Clay! I think you're awesome!
Scott Bub - I wrote to your “Scott madeup “ account. Just wanted you to know Saints Unscripted hides all my comments now too. Like you I didn’t say anything mean but they banned my skepticism.
I am struggling to avoid a breakdown..... I feel so lost and confused. My nephew just left for his mission.....
Any organisation has the right to fire their employees if they do not live by the company's rules. BUT a church that claims the name of Jesus Christ does not have the right to treat people the opposite of what Christ did and unfortunately the church does not behave like Jesus Christ and they have no right to claim that name.
I have to say I think Clay is a very inspired man in such a good way! I really respect his desire for truth.
If humans are going to sit down in a church and take the time to listen to speakers every Sunday! They deserve to
know they are receiving messages that are truly uplifting to their souls!
And when he or she thinks they’ve been hoodwinked by a religious organization that isn’t coming forth in a clear way to give answers that their soul yearns for!
It just becomes a no-brainer
to ask questions until you get answers. If that religious organization doesn’t answer their questions they deserve to go to learning groups to get
those answers!
But the mormon church is not giving answers to the very basic questions about the starter of the LDS Church.
We were given songs that are saying “Praise To The Man” !But we find out that how can you praise the man when the book of mormon has no artifacts, no Hebrew DNA!
When you study the BoM in the correct way it becomes so obvious that it is a fraud it is like looking up at the sky on a sunny day and say there is no sun! Every active member deserves that kind of truth!
Thank you Clay for sharing your story. I’m 64 and I’m going through what you have had although I’ve not been contacted by my Bishop I’ve just come to grips that the church is a big lie and it’s so deflating and insulting. And I’m carrying this on my own right now. Happy trails buddy
I left the church several years ago but have always missed the Mormon culture. Why don't we apostates create an organization with all the good things about the Mormon church and just leave out the doctrine.
Rebecca Bello
Because funeral potatoes just aren't that good.
Rebecca Bello I would SO BE THERE!
That will start an other one, that will do the same mistake
The church is really like a club with dues and gossip. If you start with a prayer and have people talk about their testimony of leaving the cult and what they want to do now it could be great! I love funeral potatoes!!
NO THANKS. By reliving the CULTURE CULT, you haven't really left it at all.
Very nice podcast. The book of Abraham led me out 4 years ago.
My heart goes out to you Clay you are genuine I wish all the best for you and your familyGod bless you Clay
Isn't he a wonderful man Martin? So honest and isn't it great to think that he is enjoying coffee after it being forbidden all these years. M Kennedy.
@@marilynkennedy8236 I read the original historical documentation, which outlined that after church services (when people gathered for socialisation) several women had complained regard the smell of cigar smoke on account of the men who gathered to imbibe alcohol ! In retaliation the men then complained re the smell of coffee and chatter coming from the women. So to keep the peace, the men were banned from smoking and drinking alcohol and the women from drinking coffee/ tea and idle chatter. I also accessed the historical documentation whereby the President of the USA and the mormon Church had a stand off re black people and the priesthood! Eventually they were given a same day deadline ( race riots were already taking place) that if they did not comply, they would lose their tax free charitable status. After heated discussion and 15 minutes to go the mormon president conceded on account of the $000000000 they would have had to pay. So they then put out a statement that God had forgiven all black people and they could share the priesthood. Now you know why the church stipulates that you are sinning/ apostating if you dare to seek the Truth. One Truth will lead you to another and finaly (unless completely indoctrinated) your own discernment and God given intuition will show you the long suppressed truth and history of the mormon ( and many many more churche) that are nothing more than corporate financial institutions. You will Love God and Jesus all the more for being Free 🙏🏻 God Bless all of you who have still to find out these truths, but you WILL overcome having been deceived and be better people for having had your own awakening
@@lorrettacrowley5922 Thank you Loretta. It is surely a strange church, it scared me when I saw a You Tube video once where someone had recorded a secret ceremony it bothered me for a long time. It is no wonder people in the church are living in fear.
If the Book of Abraham were true it would have been the most important record in the history of western culture. "It is better that one man should perish than a nation dwindle in unbelief" was the justification for the murder of Laban and the theft of the brass plates. This would set the precedent for church possession of the Abraham scroll. Brigham Young did not hesitate to use violence. If Brigham Young believed the scroll was real, he would have killed to get it. Brigham Young did not believe the scroll was real, and that's why the scroll disappeared for 100 years.
Audio cuts out multiple times. I got half of what he said. I think I got the gist of it but I agree with this. I left so that I could *stop* doing drugs. Yes, after 11 yrs of being addicted to heroine and failing 'My God' over and over, I finally began true recovery only after leaving the church and it's completely *just* repentance process. Now I am 7 months clean (longest ever) and more spiritual and closer to my God than ever now.
I'm glad I found this comment 6 years later. I too had a serious drug problem and shortly after denouncing the church and its teachings I was able to get a better grip on the reality of what I was doing to my self because of my faulty belief system. I now run a business and have learned to love my self unconditionally.
I've never understood how anyone can choose a church over their families. Never. My husband is inactive and I'm not a member. Some of his family are practicing, but we just don't talk about it. If the missionaries come by, we invite them in and talk to them. I went through the discussions years ago because it was a custody issue with his kids and I was doing what I could get them with us. So they come by every once in a while. I'm very nice to them, but I always just tell them the church is not for me, and I leave it at that. I believe their life is hard enough without getting into all of this.
No "true" chuch should be so hard to leave that you need to through an attorney to resign!
No "true" church should divide families. No "true" church should require so much financial support from parishioners that it grows richer while the the parishioners struggle financially...
Funny, I was just reading that page in NMKMH today. Finished it again for the second time tonight. Really great read and I feel a very fair and accurate summation of Joseph Smith.
Facts matter to me too. Thank you for your story Clay.
clay is a wonderful and totally honest man, it is very sad indeed that so many men and women just like Clay are leaving the church in there thousands
Men like Clay and John Dehlin should re organise there own church for all former Mormons, they have lost so much the reformed church would be a safe place for ex Mormons and would be self financing and teach the truth there are so many good people out rhere that need to congregate together
For the good of all I pray that this will happen God bless you all
So sad that members shun anyone that chooses to leave the church for any reason. Can you tell me the name of this book please. Thanks
Clay, if you ever read this: You rock. (John, you too!)
Faith in the Church? No Jesus did not teach that we should have faith in a church. We should have faith in Him. Coffee? Good grief. People suffering everywhere and we are concerned about Coffee. Have faith in Jesus and He will see you safely through.
Sounds like the biggest disservice the Mormon Church does is it destroys a person's faith in anything outside of the Mormon Church. Praying that this family has found a way to worship Jesus in a community of believers.
Thank you guys. Years ago I gradually left over time because as time went on I was duct taping more and more layers of a rotten onion. Another dealbreaker. I am a woman too. Clay. LOVE your hieroglyphic mug. Awesome!
"I just sinned on camera, and it feels great" lol! :)
EDIT: There's a lot of interesting stuff in this video. Thanks for the book recommendation, Clay! My library has that Joseph Smith bio in stock. I also never knew about Swedenborg. I enjoyed this podcast interview!
"I no longer believe in the Mormon Church." Mormon church, "How dare you, we are going to use our magic powers to kick you out of the church, and condemn you, by the power of our magic powers that don't actually do anything visible, and that you just told us you don't believe in. That will show you."
That’s the cutest part of this interview, when Clay mentions how his wife noted that no-one in the church has a “priesthood-led family.” The authority doesn’t mean anything to someone who leaves and is ready to leave. But, it can still sting, especially if it’s done in a cruel way.
I envy his bravery... but I envy his hair even more so. ;)
If you miss attending church on sunday, I found that studying for a deeper understanding of the virtues helped. Virtues like respect for example. "Respect is when you honor the light in your own self and seeing it in another, it becomes a profound form of love." Also, fearlessness, purity of heart ,humility, selfless service without thought of reward, honesty, love, etc.. When we seek truth, we have heard His knock at the door and
...and let Him enter. The Lord becomes our constant companion and guide. We need no other and become one, as in the parable of the Bride Groom...
I also want to suggest that while becoming One with the Lord is a metaphysical transformation the Lord is referred to as being feminine by the Jews as the name for the Holy Spirit in Hebrew is She.kinah. This is not widely understood and naturally men may get their wires crossed and be gay in their efforts when they understand oneness of Holy Spirit is to be part of a Heavenly masculine Father which is not the case as the Holy Spirit is undifferentiated!
They “offered” to ex-communicate me because I knew the church was NOT true. I argued that I didn’t do anything wrong and requested (demanded ) to have my name removed from their rolls. I am no longer a member however they did not ex-communicate me.
That's it, he drank coffee!! He should have been excommunicated. LOL!! :)
It's from section 89 of the Doctrine and Covenants. The D&C was supposedly a collection of revelations Joseph Smith received directly from God as a means of organizing the church at the time. The Word of Wisdom was a health code recommended to members at the time. It was later made a requirement in the early 20th century.
Ya we knew about the family trees back then, coming in, and going out trees
I could listen to Clay talk forever. He knows his stuff and he's excited about it! Clay needs his own series in the Mormon Stories family of podcasts! Maybe an in depth analysis of each section of the ces letter and the fair debunking, then Jeremy's debunking of fair? Just a million dollar idea 😉
Hey, church: You're not breaking up with ME! *I'M breaking up with YOU!* 😂 LOVE IT
What a decent, ethical man. So many of them I have seen in these podcasts are.
As I hear all of these stories of people finding their way, I am extremely grateful for my knowledge & practice of my culture, which is immersed with spirituality 🙏🏼 the early church should have taken lessons from the natives already here aligned with the Trinity 😉
just goes without saying that if Joseph Smith and lied about his storybook novel, and was a false prophet then so is the religious organization he founded. there is no middle ground.
Clay, I understand completely that you are not willing to join another church. You were able to "vet" Joseph Smith and his teachings.These events were in our recent past. I'm sure that if the internet was available when I joined the church in 1970, I never would have joined. But, there is no way to vet the Bible or any other so called holy book. I don't buy it that something is true simply because it's in the Bible. You take what is good from where ever you find it and leave the rest. I believe in some higher power and purpose for life here on earth but I don't believe we have to join a club with passwords etc. to be loved by our creator. Thank you for your podcast.
Oh, I loved that. A club with passwords! :D
Like JWs, do Mormons shun? You bet they do!
I will say what no one else is saying: I obviously really like Clay, but I find his defensiveness about the historical Jesus & the Bible (whilst claiming the binary black/white truth thing, which I highly agree with) frustrating.. I hope the deconstructs that nonsense soon - it doesn't matter how 'nice' Jesus was - there are thousands of gods throughout global history, & he was the son of none of them. Tell him to look up Canaanite religion if he's so interested in ancient history. It just discourages me from his whole testimony of "I don't care what it is, but I'm only gona believe in truth".
Really liked him so much! What a lovely man! But just sat here a little nonplussed.
Love the showing of Clay, "sinning", on camera! LOL! Powerful testimony of truth! ❤
"This action is being taken due to information received that you have been involved in conduct unbecoming of the church." Conduct Unbecoming is a low grade violation in the Military, police and fire, similar to acting unprofessional. Viewed as subjective. LDS was remiss in specificity. This also goes to show how they failed to conduct an investigation and gives the impression that someone told the LDS about Clay. LDS was pissed at the podcast.
I want to know more. I'm reading "Unveiling Grace"What book should I read?
much respect to you clay! you’re an HONOURABLE LEGEND
a trait these idiots will never relate to
Pat on the back to the father for supporting his kids. My father never did confess the church wasn't true, even though he was Jack. I think he had just invested too much into it.
Clay's is not married to Matt's wife but his sister...#Joseph'sSmithproblems
+kirkland meadows You're right. No more polyandry!
I thought Matt was married to Clay's sister.
Ha! Ha! Well put.
Mormonism doesn't have a monopoly on righteousness. You can be an upright and just person outside of Mormonism. As for priesthood authority, there are ACTUAL Levites still living. Jews STILL ask the question "Cohen (priest), Levi (Levite), Israel(ite)?" annually.
There is a such thing as ‘righteous anger’. I believe there is a scripture where Jesus says that when you get angry, just do it without sinning. To me it means that he knows there are things to get angry about, but just control how you react to it so that you don’t do something rash, like hurt someone, etc.
He has every right to be angry when we’ve all been lied to.
Even Jesus became angry , when he found the money changers were working at his father's temple
Truth matters above all things otherwise whät do we really stand on ?
I'm glad I'm not anyone noteworthy in terms of Church membership. The church is extremely harsh if anyone knows about your lack of faith--something our leadership and Darth Vader hold in common lol
About an hour ago, right here on UA-cam, on a Mormon site called "Stories of the Restoration," I watched and listened to a Mormon teacher with a serious and straight face describe Adam Ondi Ahman in Jackson County Missouri as being near the site of the Garden of Eden. It is also where the New Jerusalem site from where Jesus will rule subsequent to the second coming, which is apparently (still) coming very soon. Further exploration revealed that nearby in Jackson County, Mo is also where Noah built his ark and collected two of each species. He says it all in a matter of fact tone that it is just beyond question it is all true because Smith said so. Forget the total lack of evidence for the BofM, forget the seer stone in a hat, forget the phony translation of the Book of Abraham, forget all the CES letter. Just on the basis of this "Stories of the Restoration,"alone, how in the hell can anyone who has the intelligence to dress themselves in the morning actually believe this nonsense?
Clay you a badass rockstar
I honestly thought that this was Prof. Clayton from HBS. I believe that he continues to be a member of LDS.
You are a good man and I wish you the best. The Mormon people are good people, it’s the church that is dishonest.
I sinned on camera and it feels great 😂
I remember a speech given by one of the high and holy comparing Emma and Hyram Smith's wife.... Boy there weren't any good words spoken about poor old Emma, and after all the bullshit that woman had to live with.....
Your a true child of God, Our family left our church because of the darkness under the Light, Jesus says If you love anyone more them Christ your not worthy of Him, Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life. We know He is the Truth, The Mormon church, The Catholic Church, The baptist, etc etc are not the way. Jesus is. Love you
How do I get to talk to this man? I could use him right now
Dr. John. Your coordination is much better than mine. You done Good as everyone in my posse would say.
FYI Video was skipping for me a bunch prior to 7:50 mark.
+Adam Barlow Just sound issues.
+Adam Barlow Thanks--I'm watching this on an experimental Linux box and was trying to figure out if it was Linux or the video...
@@mmmirele right. The wonders of electronic felgerkarb. Poor Dr. John was finagling pieces of equipment all by himself.
Honestly have to chuckle a bit when John uses words like "ally", "heroically", and "power" to describe Clay's experience in leaving the church. Then he uses the words "true colors" to denigrate the church and the excommunication process. Reminds me of political ads...hey, life will be great by choosing me, and by the way, let's focus on the horrific faults of my opponent.
I totally agree that people are generally good. We are all made from God love and naturally will all go back to ❤️ love in our journey. Thank you for sharing you story!!
ThankYou Clay for your example to the world that truth matters.
it's impossible to obtain spiritual truth through reading literature for the purpose of establishing facts using common sense, reasoning and logic. many people think they can use the SCIENTIFIC method for knowing God's truth. it simply does not work that way in God's world.
With social media teens can reach out and make friends all over the world.
Global perspective > eternal perspective
Conduct unbecoming......sounds like a courtmartial.....a military court of law.
God bless and keep you
Great guy!
It wasn't a job where you'd be losing a severance package, so I guess it makes no difference. Members pay them. If you see no point in pretending to believe for whatever your reasons were and it no longer makes you happy, good for you. But all rational people in the church aren't crazy enough to believe this stuff either for the most part, going all the way up. They still have reasons to pretend and did what they because they were required to do this to you to keep up the pretense. Your outspokenness forced their hands. I agree though, the church should allow people to be at whatever level they want in public or private without risk of public shame. Most other mainstream religions allow blatant dissension without such draconian intervention, but it's the way its set up.
Your very Orthadox. God Bless you
Can you post his story to this channel? I don't see the original video anywhere
It is episodes 616 and 617. Matt and Clay were interviewed together.
616 is Matt, Clay's brother in law, explaining how lonely he has been since he stopped believing 13 years ago.
617 is Clay telling his story. I found Clay's episode to be wonderful. I'm really glad Matt now has a compatriot in the family.
WTG Clay!!!!!
From Australia [ aussie ] greetings....I was interested in Clay's response as to what and why he had left, now I know....I stop no man nor woman who has lost their faith for whatever reason they have to leave,it is voluntary to join and the same to leave.....I am amazed at how quickly people forget Joseph's history 1:18-20 and D+C 122:1-3....Yes I understand their concerns in the leadership of the church, I do but as NO MAN is infallible even as Elder Oaks said even if they are wrong, do not question them......Very unwise to state that, very unwise and arrogant!......Yet where is the testimony from the Spirit for the things you knew to be true and for truth,go? Cursed is he that puts his trust in the arm of flesh!
+mormons son "Cursed is he that puts his trust in the arm of flesh!" - Please cite evidence for your insinuation that this is what Clay did. The church culture appears to have taught you well to denigrate the character of those who leave.
writerteacher1 The quote was posted as ALL [ lds ] have known by the spirit that Joseph and the restoration is from God.....Where is the room to doubt and who were they listening to , to doubt? Was it from man or God?
I have not denigrate the character of Clay Christensen...Where do YOU see I have?
WHY NOT READ MY post?
+mormons son OK 'Yet where is the testimony from the Spirit for the things you knew to be
true and for truth,go? Cursed is he that puts his trust in the arm of flesh!"
So now apparently you're saying that the "you" was not referring to Clay?
Are you saying that you are not insinuating that Clay "put his trust in the arm of flesh"? If the "you" did not refer to Clay (which is highly illogical in context of your response) is the following sentence somehow not referring to Clay? That makes no sense either.
As I understand your words there is a clear insinuation that Clay "put his trust in the arm of flesh".
writerteacher1 I repeat, I stop no man nor woman who has lost their faith for whatever reason they have to leave...having typed this the Spirit of the Lord would not make a person doubt his or her faith but 2 people, the devil and some one else?
Where is the room to doubt and who was he listening to , to doubt? Was it from man or God? If not from God then man or even worse the devil? But the devil cannot be blamed for everything, man his/her makes choices also.
God cannot lie, if God has/had testified by his spirit then why lose faith?
If he no longer believes God then he is left to himself and his own understanding and wisdom and eventually the light fades and becomes darkened just as any other mortal man, trying to cling to the light he once had?
As I understand your words there is a clear insinuation that Clay "put his trust in the arm of flesh"....WELL allow me to tell you, you are wrong, and you don't understand....read what I just posted.
by the way what do you call home? baptist , evangelical, catholic-ism, orthodox-ism, voodooism, what?
mormons son
"If he no longer believes God..." - He believes in God. He said so. This is why an insinuation that he put his trust in the arm of flesh is a form of denigration. Clay identified himself as a Christian.
"WELL allow me to tell you, you are wrong, and you don't understand....read what I just posted." - You keep saying I'm wrong. So, if you are not accusing him of putting his faith in the arm of flesh, what specifically are you saying? Do you accept as valid and honest that he believes in God and is Christian? Do you accept as valid and honest that his basis for leaving the church had nothing at all to do with putting his faith in the arms flesh? If so, why are you making posts about putting one's faith in the arm of flesh?
I owe you no details about myself for you to also denigrate (likely while denying that you are engaging in denigration).
If the church isn't true then what is? What's going to happen after this life? What's the purpose of it all? The church had answers and now it doesn't? What's going on
Catholicism
I don't know. And it's okay to not know. The church never had the answers to what happens after we die, they just thought they did because of Joseph Smith's lies.
You sound like you might be going through a faith crisis at the time of this comment? Sorry if I'm mistaken, and I know this comment is over a year old, but I know how hard it is to go through that so if you're still struggling and want to talk let me know. If not, sorry to bother you.
Soon the SHAKING AND Tremble WILL BEGIN!
Is the podcast regarding Clay's excommunication episodes 616-617 of Mormon Stories with Matt Elggren?
Pick up a copy of "The Law," by Frédéric Bastiat. Keep searching for truth, apply it to all the religions and gods you have.
Actually not only was Smith not a prophet, there never has been any such thing. Religion is mythology. All of it.
BINGO.
"There are no two men that are more Christlike than my Bishop and my Stake President" ??? I believe he means morally upright, kind, gracious, etc, but the *FACT* is, you can't peddle heresy and damnable heresy and be *CHRISTLIKE* !