Enjoyed your interview a lot! I think I had a very similar path to yours and believe Jonathan can really help a lot of people to see through the prepackaged false reality that has been sold to us for so long by the enlightenment and materialism, and perceive the real enchanted patterns that underlie and sustain our world.
"The idea is to be transformed" and that's what psychedelics often do. The can be helpful for sure. Most people are too materialistic or too fanatical. In both situations I saw psychedelics being helpful. Ancient Christians knew it, just these substances as Jonathan said were not central.
@@Rotek10000 there are risks too...I have personally been helped by my encounter with ayahuasca (though in a very particular setting). I've hanged out in those circles for quite some time and can attest there is a lot of relativism, and way too much idiosyncratic BS going on there. The probability for prelest is very, very high.
@@veilofreality there are! The warning discussion is much needed but not condemnation. As you said, they can be helpful. By saying "it's demonic" you demonize these plants, and people who had good, transformative experience. And btw. it's not that Christian circles are much better. I am Orthodox Christian living in ultra Catholic Poland. Not so many people have Jonathan understanding...
Before everyone corrects me, at 1:31:30 I made a mistake saying the being Aleister Crowley communicated with is Alioth, but it's Aiwass. My confusion came from having just finished recording my analysis on Loki, in which the chaos monster is named Alioth.
This is probably the best interview I have ever listened to in my life. So elucidating. The way Jonathan talked about the meeting places of heaven and earth really resounded with me. God bless and keep the both of you, Jonathan and Tom. ✝️
AHHHH so excited for this. Also huge shoutout to the multiple different music intros this one rocked, God be with you Jonathan keep up the good work ☦️
Really needed this talk. Been watching Pageau for some time now, but only discovering now the religion I was introduced to early in life and rejected. Sniffed around the spiritual buffet for a while, but it makes sense that I would understand the religion of my own culture more intimately. I need a ground up conceptualisation of Christianity. Thanks
I love it too. It's the starting line of the Paschal Stichera sung on Pascha in the Orthodox Church: "Let God arise and let His enemies be scattered." (also from Psalm 68)
I love that as a Christian you're not afraid to discuss these topics. Even though Tom has recently came out as a Christian, I believe it's because of people like you. I'd like to hear you speak with Michael Heisser one day
I wouldn't go so far as saying ignore spiritual experiences, but I think the idea is don't focus just on them, keep your eyes on the prize and don't let experiences be fruitless.
Regarding 1:30:25 - One of the most fundamental principles of Buddhism is taking refuge in the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha. So while many Buddhists don't exactly call for the Buddha to save them from dangerous situations, or demons - they do take refuge in the Buddha, which is to say they recollect him, remember his teachings, and have faith that the teachings he gave are true, and that following his teachings provides an ultimate form of safety. In Mahayana, particularly Pure Land Buddhism, there actually is a practice of repeating the name of Amitabha Buddha for protection, and also for the opportunity to be reborn in Amitabha's Pure Land, where the conditions for attaining enlightenment are said to be ideal. Good conversation, just wanted to add a bit of nuance there :)
Just commenting in hopes of boosting this video higher in the rankings -- I think this may be my favorite conversation yet - the symbolism, myths and religious background of the spiritual world is such a fascinating topic - thank you so much for all the hard work and effort you put into these videos.
Brilliant and enlightening conversation Jonathan and Tom! This conversation has done more to further my understanding of symbolism, religion and the mystical experience than anything else I've come across!
Hi, Jonathan. I always learn a lot watching your videos. Thank you! I have also been learning a lot from Bernardo Kastrup and I see many similarities about both your approaches to transcendent matters. He is very open minded and very easy going while being very good at linking equivalent ideas that are expressed in seemingly not connected traditions, cultures, philosophies and explaining them. Bernardo also brings in the latest neuroscience discoveries together as a whole concept with these traditions. His conversations with John Vervaeke are very enlightening... I truly believe that a dialogue between you and Bernardo would be very enriching to us all. And thanks again for the excellent job in teaching us how to critically think about our reality!!!
Love the classic intro with the 80's synth vibe! Also, I had already listened to the interview, it's one of your best in my opinion and could help a lot of people who are starting to see the "cracks in the matrix"..Keep up the great work, Jonathan, your are doing the work of God!
I watched this guy's videos back when I was interested in psychedelics and his podcast with Steve Bancarz led me away from those substances, great to see him again. Such open minded guy. I hope he is the way of becoming a Christian if he is not already.
Thank you. I understand many biblical topics because of you and can accept your teachings because I can understand and follow. You are a great teacher and I really appreciate the videos. God bless
The section on the relationship between horror and transcendence was great- Weird Studies did an episode on the same theme a bit back. It would be awesome to hear Jonathan’s thoughts on Ari Aster’s film work (Midsommar and Hereditary) and the way he crafts moments where horror and ecstasy are combined (the end of both films).
He'd probably point towards Christ on the cross as the fulfillment of this filmmaker's patterns. Horror + ecstasy but aimed at the coherent and harmonious unification of previously warring dualities
I wouldn’t say psychedelics are the materialist shortcut to the spiritual life. I think its more true to say that they’re the materialist escape hatch into the spiritual world. As someone who has taken mushrooms several times I can say that they make the spiritual world evidently real during the experience in a way that would make the materialist realize the incompleteness of their world view which would never be accessible to them otherwise
It's funny he brought up Skyrim. The main story is the one with Dragon-blood uses the power of the Voice (the Word/Logos) to stop the first Dragon from returning and destroying the world. I mean. C'mon. haha
Unity/multiplicity is above and beyond what we can comprehend therefore we “dumb it down” into simple phrases like “ all is one” etc. and fool ourselves into thinking that we understand,
I did watch the DK video, and I really enjoyed it...so now I know why part 2 never came out. It's a shame it didn't do well. I think the obvious video game choice is the Legend of Zelda though.
32:55 I understand why it is, and it kinda saddens me. Some people haven't had any overtly spiritual experiences, so rather than seek them out and try and convince those of the world that angels and demons we have never seen are real, it's a lot easier to just say they don't. I myself have never had any incredible spiritual experiences, while I have had a handful of undeniable ones, some members of my family and friends have had some pretty incredible ones that very few people would even believe if they heard them., I haven't even heard the full extent of them but some of them blew me away. I guess you could say I'm a lot more open to the spiritual realm because my family... Even though we can't see it(for the most part) there is this entire spiritual world all around us, there are battles between angels and demons, as much of a fantasy as it sounds, there are incredible things most people can't see all around us...
Jung was manichean, he didn't understand good and evil, that's why he can't discern between the psychic shadow vs spiritual shadow. He thought the devil was the counter part of God (manicheanism) so his work it's good only for very specific things related to the human psyche but not as a cosmovision, not as a map for reality itself.
Please do a video on Dune, I'm intrigued by the fact that they seem to have traded out the Jihad in the books with the word crusade. It's intentional and I wonder how it will change the stories message.
@xFrob Oh that's a bummer, very different to the book where it's thousands or tens of thousands years ago against the intelligent machines... Do they not explain why humanity has Mentats, like Thufir Hawat?
1:49:50 Jonathan displaying his tremendous insight into Jung. "Do not be greedy to gobble up the fruits of foreign fields. Do you not know that you yourselves are the fertile acre which bears everything that avails you?" ~ Liber Novus. Jung also had the famous holy grail dream whilst in India basically telling him to focus back on christianity etc... but yeah in being guided by that, he had to not be guided by something else. Like saying if Jonathan won't be guided into islam he is a person that doesn't listen or can't be guided. well done 😎👍
Ok I'm blown away what church is Jonathan part of I've never heard of practices like this and especially prayer that needs to be guided.. what mystical church is he referring to?
i feel like Pageau doesn't treat protestantism fairly. Protestantism splits up the process of salvation and process of sanctification formally, but they always have to come together, it's not just accepting a proposition. The issue for protestants is that our good works, and our sanctification, can never merit salvation in an of itself, because we are sinners and always fall short of the glory of God
That video didn't bomb from our perspective. Both my sons and my parents enjoyed it immensely. I thought it was a glitch that I can't find part two... check the like dislike ratio on the Donkey Kong video.
No disrespect, but I feel like Jonathan's dissections and analysis are delivered in a way that sounds very absolute! This is right what I am saying!! Can anyone claim righteousness to anything? at best it's all a guess and or speculation. We cannot know the absolute rhyme or reason as to how this life works! and perhaps it is pure arrogance on our part to try and reduce it to fit man's mind.
I am born from a muslim tradition, but have recently found out about orthodoxy through Jonathans videos. I believe that the orthodox world view makes a lot of sense. Would it be appropriate to follow the foreign but seemingly correct Christian orthodox view, or my home tradition which is seemingly false. I would like some light of wisdom to be shed upon this puzzle.
Please do Super Mario Bros! Donkey Kong is the like the foundation and Mario is like the first step up. It shows how great are the possibilities with video games.
Gigi Young is a youtuber who speaks quite a bit on discernment with spiritual being you are encountering. It is a two way street and it is very important to know who/what you are calling and reaching out to. My father said he encountered an angelic being. But based on his life and thoughts, I truly think he encountered a demon.
Salut Jonathan! Un grand appréciateur de ton travail, du Québec! I have been struggling lately with a crisis of faith, following a mix of personal experiences and the discovery of the symbolic world. I am at a crossing between Evangelicalism and Orthodoxy, and I feel like I'm one of many passing through the same change. Could you make a video talking about your conversion? My personal questions are if the symbolic world view is part of Orthodoxy or comes from your own personal beliefs (I have been struggling to find people who agree with this worldview in the Protestant world), and how you address the sinlessness of Mary, which seems to me as an idea that contradicts the story of the Bible, and is the main reason I haven't converted yet.
One thing I've found on my journey, is that if one is committed to being 100% in agreement with EVERY point of a group's theology, that's likely going to lead to one being in a church with a population of exactly one.
Hello, one thing about the sinfulness of the Theotokos etc is we in Orthodoxy understand that there's both an inclination to sin in our nature versus the actual commission or doing of sin in time and space through one's person. The mother of God, the Theotokos, still required salvation because she was still a child of Adam, however, similar to St John the Baptist, did not actually commit sin. This sounds foreign to ears that accept total depravity as the norm, but its important to distinguish that in Orthodoxy, sin is not inevitable. And we all struggle with it and are affected by it to separate degrees, and the same goes for holiness, we are not all saved to the same level, there is nuance and heirarchy in all things.
@@TheMhouk2 I am open minded to the idea of sinlessness being possible, but in the tradition I grew up in, Jesus being the only sinless one is what made Him the Saviour. I think that the difference is in defining how does Christ save us. What is the Orthodox understanding on that?
@@joaol.galdino8738 I understand. First of all we have to discuss deeper concepts of sin. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God as per Romans 3, but what does that mean? it does not mean individually each person will sin/has sinned. Moreover, it is discussing that through Adam's transgression, all humanity has inherited death/bodies of death. As side note as well, in Orthodoxy we do not hold to total depravity, that is human nature itself is somehow corrupted and that our will is entirely bent towards sin, but rather our bodies or "members" as St Paul would use in romans are given over to death and corruption. In this way both St John the Baptist and the Theotokos Mary, still needed a saviour. They still had bodies (not natures) being descendants of Adam given over to death and corruption, both in their own power could not hope to overcome this at all, being blessed but albeit still human beings. I recommend this series of posts as it actually touches on the subject quite well There are 4 parts www.pappaspatristicinstitute.com/post/did-christ-repent-the-greek-fathers-and-the-vicarious-repentance-of-christ God Bless!
OK. Now I want to see Jonathan and Rupert Spira have it out on duality vs non-duality. Would it be like when Simba says the past doesn't matter and the ape hits him? Jonathan be taking feces to the meeting. Around 53:00.
I had a weird thought while listening to the Lord of the Rings section, maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong. The hobbits' homes in the Shire are crafted out of little agricultural hills, and the garden of eden is often described as a walled garden. Is there some connection that the hobbit homes are garden walls? Like an upside down paradise, where it's an underworld, but harmonious? I recall there are traditions where Adam and Eve lived in a cave beneath the mountain of paradise, but I'm not sure if there's a legitimate connection.
The marriage between Aragorn and Arwen mirrors the marriage between Adam and Eve. Identical to how Arwen is an Elf living inside of Aragorns lineage, Eve was also a being that stems from the ribs of Adam. The "Tree of life" is Fungi, and the "Forbidden Fruit" is psychedelic mushrooms, - causing the machine-elf EVE to tempt and inform Adam about things that were previously forbidden and impossible, but which was hidden away inside of him all along. We are a species with PTSD.
Everything in life manifests as a pattern even religion! Various cultures embrace various spiritual beliefs which is a pattern. When we finally realize humans "us" are really good at creating and following patterns! Thus why the computer can follow the algorithm of the whole. "US" everyone! creating and following patterns. We are a patch quilting codex.
I’m new to Tom’s content, it seems like he talks a lot about new age spirituality and psychedelics in his videos. Is he currently discerning Christianity, but not talking about it on his channel? Can anyone fill me in? As a former new agey girl myself I find the new age to Christianity trajectory pattern very interesting and it makes me hopeful. ❤️
As time goes on I will reveal my journey with Christianity. I’m just taking time for myself personally before I talk about it to the world. But it will happen. For the meanwhile i have interviewed a few christians if you’re interested :)
@@yourmatetom Thanks for the reply, Tom! I am actually not baptized or anything yet, and am also on my own journey to Christianity. I am stuck in the “which denomination phase” right now. I think it’s great that you’re taking your time, there’s so much to learn and even though it’s sometimes overwhelming, I know I’m on a path to good incarnate. I wish you the best of luck, God bless you! 😊
Thanks for this talk guys - these concepts of non-rational entities line up pretty closely with what some people are thinking of as 'egregores' as per Yuval Noah Harari and Slate Star Codex (Meditations on Moloch), although I tend to prefer this more traditional view because as Mr Pageau so artfully demonstrates it is far richer, more nuanced, and less easy to put in a box
I love that he is explaining all these "spiritual subcultures" are actually just reactionary superficial forms of christianity. When a person says "i'm pagan." Its hard tp explain to them they actually subscribe to a form of christian mimic-ism.
I really enjoyed this discussion. I'm just listening to "The Immortality Key", I'd be really interested in listening to a discussion between Jonathan and Brian Muraresku. I think Jonathan did a bit of a straw man on his ideas here. I'm not saying he's wrong, or right, I just don't think he did the ideas justice. It's a really fascinating book, and I find Brian Muraresku very engaging. I would really like to see this discussion. Many thanks 🙏
@@CourtesyPhone That may well be the case. I might not have phrased my comment very well. I'm definitely not trying to say either one of them is right or wrong, and I wasn't having a go at Jonathan, I love this man, he's had an enormous effect on my world view, that's why I was surprised to hear him dismiss BM's book without giving it it's due. I don't think Jonathan needs to do that, and I rarely hear him straw man things. Look, I'm an idiot, I can barely put my thoughts into a comment, which is one of the reasons I enjoy listening to people like Jonathan, they teach me things I'd never figure out left to my own devices. I'd really like to hear a discussion between these 2 because I feel like they could both add to each others understanding, it would be a respectful discussion, and I'd learn a lot. I'm really not good at putting my thoughts into writing, but hopefully I've clarified myself a little bit.
An experience of the absolute is a glimpse of God unrelative to concrete particularity. God is the Reality in all things, and only God is intrinsically Real. Our reality is participation in (donation by) God's Reality. And so we can say, quite literally, that only God is Real. This understanding is in Vedanta and classical nondual traditions across the world. Contemporary nonduality (westernized nonduality) confuses this more profound insight with the shallow philosophy that because God is the only intrinsic reality, our relative reality does not exist at all or does not exist in any sense. We exist because of God's charity with His own Life. The light of the moon reflected upon the water truly is the moon's light, but the light is not intrinsic to the water (we can be more technical here and say the moon's light isn't intrinsic but a reflection of the sun's light, but I digress).
I feel so honoured to have Jonathan on the show. I really enjoyed our conversation. Thanks for listening ❤️
Enjoyed your interview a lot! I think I had a very similar path to yours and believe Jonathan can really help a lot of people to see through the prepackaged false reality that has been sold to us for so long by the enlightenment and materialism, and perceive the real enchanted patterns that underlie and sustain our world.
Great interview and channel king 👑
"The idea is to be transformed" and that's what psychedelics often do. The can be helpful for sure. Most people are too materialistic or too fanatical. In both situations I saw psychedelics being helpful. Ancient Christians knew it, just these substances as Jonathan said were not central.
@@Rotek10000 there are risks too...I have personally been helped by my encounter with ayahuasca (though in a very particular setting). I've hanged out in those circles for quite some time and can attest there is a lot of relativism, and way too much idiosyncratic BS going on there. The probability for prelest is very, very high.
@@veilofreality there are! The warning discussion is much needed but not condemnation. As you said, they can be helpful. By saying "it's demonic" you demonize these plants, and people who had good, transformative experience.
And btw. it's not that Christian circles are much better. I am Orthodox Christian living in ultra Catholic Poland. Not so many people have Jonathan understanding...
Before everyone corrects me, at 1:31:30 I made a mistake saying the being Aleister Crowley communicated with is Alioth, but it's Aiwass. My confusion came from having just finished recording my analysis on Loki, in which the chaos monster is named Alioth.
I thought it was called “Lam” or something.
@@MattisWell.20 So did I.
Yikes.. Do research guys.. Or dont talk about it
@@DawnHub666 the name isn't really relevant to be fair.
@@DawnHub666 is it yikes worthy?
This is probably the best interview I have ever listened to in my life. So elucidating. The way Jonathan talked about the meeting places of heaven and earth really resounded with me. God bless and keep the both of you, Jonathan and Tom. ✝️
AHHHH so excited for this. Also huge shoutout to the multiple different music intros this one rocked, God be with you Jonathan keep up the good work ☦️
Let's try and get Jonathan Pageau on Russell Brand's podcast show, think it would be an amazing talk about patterns and spirituality (edit: spelling)
Nah
Nah
I'd listen to that!
Nah
Nah
2021: symbolic Odyssey intro
more "stranger things", to me
@@veilofreality Symbolic Things
@@jamememes4114 :)
Synthwave intro is FIRE
Really needed this talk. Been watching Pageau for some time now, but only discovering now the religion I was introduced to early in life and rejected. Sniffed around the spiritual buffet for a while, but it makes sense that I would understand the religion of my own culture more intimately. I need a ground up conceptualisation of Christianity. Thanks
Love the new intro!
Another amazing podcast! Watched the full and am still in awe with the aray of topics covered.
I love it too. It's the starting line of the Paschal Stichera sung on Pascha in the Orthodox Church: "Let God arise and let His enemies be scattered." (also from Psalm 68)
I love that as a Christian you're not afraid to discuss these topics. Even though Tom has recently came out as a Christian, I believe it's because of people like you.
I'd like to hear you speak with Michael Heisser one day
I love Jordan Peterson, Jonathan Pageau, and Michael Heiser!
💯
Can't wait for the vaporwave intro, should save it for your next chat with Owen Cyclops.
I wouldn't go so far as saying ignore spiritual experiences, but I think the idea is don't focus just on them, keep your eyes on the prize and don't let experiences be fruitless.
Wonderful overall and @ 48:05 JP in 4 minutes provides a stellar differentiation between literal and symbolic, so succinct so on point. 👏👏👏👏👏
Regarding 1:30:25 - One of the most fundamental principles of Buddhism is taking refuge in the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha. So while many Buddhists don't exactly call for the Buddha to save them from dangerous situations, or demons - they do take refuge in the Buddha, which is to say they recollect him, remember his teachings, and have faith that the teachings he gave are true, and that following his teachings provides an ultimate form of safety. In Mahayana, particularly Pure Land Buddhism, there actually is a practice of repeating the name of Amitabha Buddha for protection, and also for the opportunity to be reborn in Amitabha's Pure Land, where the conditions for attaining enlightenment are said to be ideal.
Good conversation, just wanted to add a bit of nuance there :)
Just commenting in hopes of boosting this video higher in the rankings -- I think this may be my favorite conversation yet - the symbolism, myths and religious background of the spiritual world is such a fascinating topic - thank you so much for all the hard work and effort you put into these videos.
Brilliant and enlightening conversation Jonathan and Tom! This conversation has done more to further my understanding of symbolism, religion and the mystical experience than anything else I've come across!
Hi, Jonathan. I always learn a lot watching your videos. Thank you! I have also been learning a lot from Bernardo Kastrup and I see many similarities about both your approaches to transcendent matters. He is very open minded and very easy going while being very good at linking equivalent ideas that are expressed in seemingly not connected traditions, cultures, philosophies and explaining them. Bernardo also brings in the latest neuroscience discoveries together as a whole concept with these traditions. His conversations with John Vervaeke are very enlightening... I truly believe that a dialogue between you and Bernardo would be very enriching to us all. And thanks again for the excellent job in teaching us how to critically think about our reality!!!
Love the classic intro with the 80's synth vibe! Also, I had already listened to the interview, it's one of your best in my opinion and could help a lot of people who are starting to see the "cracks in the matrix"..Keep up the great work, Jonathan, your are doing the work of God!
The Thu'um in Skyrim has a strong connection with the Logos. It's basically magic where you speak things into existence. How relevant can you get!
Nice intro, it sort of reminds me of the Doctor Who intro, kind of if they were having a church service in the Tardis
I watched this guy's videos back when I was interested in psychedelics and his podcast with Steve Bancarz led me away from those substances, great to see him again. Such open minded guy. I hope he is the way of becoming a Christian if he is not already.
Thank you. I understand many biblical topics because of you and can accept your teachings because I can understand and follow. You are a great teacher and I really appreciate the videos. God bless
Loved the synthwave version of the theme at the begining
i miss the warm 1970s documentary feel of the original intro honestly
same
Lol 70s documentary
The section on the relationship between horror and transcendence was great- Weird Studies did an episode on the same theme a bit back. It would be awesome to hear Jonathan’s thoughts on Ari Aster’s film work (Midsommar and Hereditary) and the way he crafts moments where horror and ecstasy are combined (the end of both films).
He'd probably point towards Christ on the cross as the fulfillment of this filmmaker's patterns. Horror + ecstasy but aimed at the coherent and harmonious unification of previously warring dualities
I wouldn’t say psychedelics are the materialist shortcut to the spiritual life. I think its more true to say that they’re the materialist escape hatch into the spiritual world. As someone who has taken mushrooms several times I can say that they make the spiritual world evidently real during the experience in a way that would make the materialist realize the incompleteness of their world view which would never be accessible to them otherwise
It's funny he brought up Skyrim. The main story is the one with Dragon-blood uses the power of the Voice (the Word/Logos) to stop the first Dragon from returning and destroying the world. I mean. C'mon. haha
Logic is the only thing that can save us from astroids, raining down from the constellation Draco.
Unity/multiplicity is above and beyond what we can comprehend therefore we “dumb it down” into simple phrases like “ all is one” etc. and fool ourselves into thinking that we understand,
Symbolism of Skyrim would be incredible.
"You can't build a car out of grass"
Clearly this man has never seen "Cheech and Chong Up in Smoke". 😏
Great conversation... I love it... from 29:39 is super accurate. Jonathan... I love your work!!!
I did watch the DK video, and I really enjoyed it...so now I know why part 2 never came out. It's a shame it didn't do well.
I think the obvious video game choice is the Legend of Zelda though.
32:55 I understand why it is, and it kinda saddens me. Some people haven't had any overtly spiritual experiences, so rather than seek them out and try and convince those of the world that angels and demons we have never seen are real, it's a lot easier to just say they don't.
I myself have never had any incredible spiritual experiences, while I have had a handful of undeniable ones, some members of my family and friends have had some pretty incredible ones that very few people would even believe if they heard them., I haven't even heard the full extent of them but some of them blew me away. I guess you could say I'm a lot more open to the spiritual realm because my family...
Even though we can't see it(for the most part) there is this entire spiritual world all around us, there are battles between angels and demons, as much of a fantasy as it sounds, there are incredible things most people can't see all around us...
Jung was manichean, he didn't understand good and evil, that's why he can't discern between the psychic shadow vs spiritual shadow. He thought the devil was the counter part of God (manicheanism) so his work it's good only for very specific things related to the human psyche but not as a cosmovision, not as a map for reality itself.
Jonathan, regarding literal meaning, there is the crucial question of whether or not the events being discussed actually happened in history or not.
Please do a video on Dune, I'm intrigued by the fact that they seem to have traded out the Jihad in the books with the word crusade. It's intentional and I wonder how it will change the stories message.
I'm seeing the film on Friday. I wonder if the word crusade still means the same thing, though? Was it against the machines?
@xFrob Oh that's a bummer, very different to the book where it's thousands or tens of thousands years ago against the intelligent machines...
Do they not explain why humanity has Mentats, like Thufir Hawat?
the director is super woke and most probably very antichristian
Intro was my fav yet! A bit of doctor who vibes!
Conversation with Brian Murarescu, author of Immortality Key would be something! I think Jonathan would be surprised!
1:49:50 Jonathan displaying his tremendous insight into Jung. "Do not be greedy to gobble up the fruits of foreign fields. Do you not know that you yourselves are the fertile acre which bears everything that avails you?" ~ Liber Novus. Jung also had the famous holy grail dream whilst in India basically telling him to focus back on christianity etc... but yeah in being guided by that, he had to not be guided by something else. Like saying if Jonathan won't be guided into islam he is a person that doesn't listen or can't be guided. well done 😎👍
I cannot step outside the world and pattern, but God can show me what is beyond. Objective knowledge is revelatory.
Synthwave symbolic world intro, finally!
Ok I'm blown away what church is Jonathan part of I've never heard of practices like this and especially prayer that needs to be guided.. what mystical church is he referring to?
He is an Orthodox Christian.
Synthwave is the best version of the SW theme song! And the same initials!
Love the synth beat
i feel like Pageau doesn't treat protestantism fairly. Protestantism splits up the process of salvation and process of sanctification formally, but they always have to come together, it's not just accepting a proposition. The issue for protestants is that our good works, and our sanctification, can never merit salvation in an of itself, because we are sinners and always fall short of the glory of God
That video didn't bomb from our perspective. Both my sons and my parents enjoyed it immensely. I thought it was a glitch that I can't find part two... check the like dislike ratio on the Donkey Kong video.
The closest I've ever came to understanding pageau. Cool.
No disrespect, but I feel like Jonathan's dissections and analysis are delivered in a way that sounds very absolute! This is right what I am saying!! Can anyone claim righteousness to anything? at best it's all a guess and or speculation. We cannot know the absolute rhyme or reason as to how this life works! and perhaps it is pure arrogance on our part to try and reduce it to fit man's mind.
Very Helpful & Informative!
Thanks Brothers 🙏🎯👍😎
Elder Scrolls was basically my introduction to the world of symbols, and that kind of shenanigans!
I like the new intro. Keep it.
Digging the new intro so much!
I am born from a muslim tradition, but have recently found out about orthodoxy through Jonathans videos. I believe that the orthodox world view makes a lot of sense. Would it be appropriate to follow the foreign but seemingly correct Christian orthodox view, or my home tradition which is seemingly false. I would like some light of wisdom to be shed upon this puzzle.
I loved Jonathan's video of Donkey Kong
Now you're ready to talk with Akira the Don!
Zen is the same with regards to ignoring the spirtual experiences as being worthy of being dropped
Whew! Just made my day.
Please do Super Mario Bros! Donkey Kong is the like the foundation and Mario is like the first step up. It shows how great are the possibilities with video games.
16:00 +++
fairy tales as distilled patterns
is the best equity, I've heard,
that binds logos and mythos,
all the way down,
Ever
FAIRY TALES AS DISTILLED PATTERNS
I would love to see your analysis of Chrono Trigger.
great listen, you two should talk more, very enjoyable ..thank you
Gigi Young is a youtuber who speaks quite a bit on discernment with spiritual being you are encountering. It is a two way street and it is very important to know who/what you are calling and reaching out to.
My father said he encountered an angelic being. But based on his life and thoughts, I truly think he encountered a demon.
Thanks
This makes me want to see you interview Michael Heiser and Steven Bancarz.
Incredible job!!
More videos like this!
It would be nice if Jordan Peterson would have the courage to speak up about those things as well.
He has. Watch his interview with John Anderson.
@@ethanhocking8229 Thanks. I checked it out. He indeed speaks about those things.
It would be sweet to have Jonathan do a video on Doom Eternal
I feel like a quick and easy way to explain the literal/metaphorical thing is to say that Chekov's Gun applies to reality, since reality is a story
Salut Jonathan! Un grand appréciateur de ton travail, du Québec!
I have been struggling lately with a crisis of faith, following a mix of personal experiences and the discovery of the symbolic world. I am at a crossing between Evangelicalism and Orthodoxy, and I feel like I'm one of many passing through the same change.
Could you make a video talking about your conversion? My personal questions are if the symbolic world view is part of Orthodoxy or comes from your own personal beliefs (I have been struggling to find people who agree with this worldview in the Protestant world), and how you address the sinlessness of Mary, which seems to me as an idea that contradicts the story of the Bible, and is the main reason I haven't converted yet.
One thing I've found on my journey, is that if one is committed to being 100% in agreement with EVERY point of a group's theology, that's likely going to lead to one being in a church with a population of exactly one.
@@paxnorth7304 You're make a very interesting point, I hadn't come to this realization before. God bless you!
Hello, one thing about the sinfulness of the Theotokos etc is we in Orthodoxy understand that there's both an inclination to sin in our nature versus the actual commission or doing of sin in time and space through one's person. The mother of God, the Theotokos, still required salvation because she was still a child of Adam, however, similar to St John the Baptist, did not actually commit sin.
This sounds foreign to ears that accept total depravity as the norm, but its important to distinguish that in Orthodoxy, sin is not inevitable. And we all struggle with it and are affected by it to separate degrees, and the same goes for holiness, we are not all saved to the same level, there is nuance and heirarchy in all things.
@@TheMhouk2 I am open minded to the idea of sinlessness being possible, but in the tradition I grew up in, Jesus being the only sinless one is what made Him the Saviour.
I think that the difference is in defining how does Christ save us. What is the Orthodox understanding on that?
@@joaol.galdino8738 I understand. First of all we have to discuss deeper concepts of sin. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God as per Romans 3, but what does that mean? it does not mean individually each person will sin/has sinned. Moreover, it is discussing that through Adam's transgression, all humanity has inherited death/bodies of death.
As side note as well, in Orthodoxy we do not hold to total depravity, that is human nature itself is somehow corrupted and that our will is entirely bent towards sin, but rather our bodies or "members" as St Paul would use in romans are given over to death and corruption.
In this way both St John the Baptist and the Theotokos Mary, still needed a saviour. They still had bodies (not natures) being descendants of Adam given over to death and corruption, both in their own power could not hope to overcome this at all, being blessed but albeit still human beings.
I recommend this series of posts as it actually touches on the subject quite well
There are 4 parts
www.pappaspatristicinstitute.com/post/did-christ-repent-the-greek-fathers-and-the-vicarious-repentance-of-christ
God Bless!
OK. Now I want to see Jonathan and Rupert Spira have it out on duality vs non-duality. Would it be like when Simba says the past doesn't matter and the ape hits him? Jonathan be taking feces to the meeting. Around 53:00.
I had a weird thought while listening to the Lord of the Rings section, maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
The hobbits' homes in the Shire are crafted out of little agricultural hills, and the garden of eden is often described as a walled garden. Is there some connection that the hobbit homes are garden walls? Like an upside down paradise, where it's an underworld, but harmonious?
I recall there are traditions where Adam and Eve lived in a cave beneath the mountain of paradise, but I'm not sure if there's a legitimate connection.
The marriage between Aragorn and Arwen mirrors the marriage between Adam and Eve.
Identical to how Arwen is an Elf living inside of Aragorns lineage, Eve was also a being that stems from the ribs of Adam.
The "Tree of life" is Fungi, and the "Forbidden Fruit" is psychedelic mushrooms, - causing the machine-elf EVE to tempt and inform Adam about things that were previously forbidden and impossible, but which was hidden away inside of him all along.
We are a species with PTSD.
Everything in life manifests as a pattern even religion! Various cultures embrace various spiritual beliefs which is a pattern. When we finally realize humans "us" are really good at creating and following patterns! Thus why the computer can follow the algorithm of the whole. "US" everyone! creating and following patterns. We are a patch quilting codex.
I’m new to Tom’s content, it seems like he talks a lot about new age spirituality and psychedelics in his videos. Is he currently discerning Christianity, but not talking about it on his channel? Can anyone fill me in?
As a former new agey girl myself I find the new age to Christianity trajectory pattern very interesting and it makes me hopeful. ❤️
As time goes on I will reveal my journey with Christianity. I’m just taking time for myself personally before I talk about it to the world. But it will happen. For the meanwhile i have interviewed a few christians if you’re interested :)
@@yourmatetom Thanks for the reply, Tom! I am actually not baptized or anything yet, and am also on my own journey to Christianity. I am stuck in the “which denomination phase” right now. I think it’s great that you’re taking your time, there’s so much to learn and even though it’s sometimes overwhelming, I know I’m on a path to good incarnate. I wish you the best of luck, God bless you! 😊
What was the name of that Christian mystic author text Pageau mentioned? Closed caption showed sangre of Nisa lol no results
Gregory of Nyssa.
@@Loenthall88 thanks!
Oh man, I'm sorry your Donkey Kong video bombed. I loved that video and I watched it twice!
Thanks for this talk guys - these concepts of non-rational entities line up pretty closely with what some people are thinking of as 'egregores' as per Yuval Noah Harari and Slate Star Codex (Meditations on Moloch), although I tend to prefer this more traditional view because as Mr Pageau so artfully demonstrates it is far richer, more nuanced, and less easy to put in a box
I love that he is explaining all these "spiritual subcultures" are actually just reactionary superficial forms of christianity. When a person says "i'm pagan." Its hard tp explain to them they actually subscribe to a form of christian mimic-ism.
please come to East Tn!! I go to ST Ann's in Oak Ridge and would Love for you to be a part of our communitee
The opening theme is the alt universe "Orthodox Doctor" yes ? Tardis chameleon circuits is locked into freestanding confessional booth
Correction: giants are aproximately 15 feet tall
Wow, so interesting, very eye opening!
I'm having a dejevu experience. This video must have been released before 19/10/2021
He had a talk with this guy a few weeks ago
At least that's what I remember. I think the intro was different before?
Wow loved the intro too
From where can i get a good orthodox bible that has not been ruined by mistranslation?
Orthodox Study Bible is a good start
1:39:24 sounds similar to something from Five Nights at Freddy's, such as Ennard. The creator of FNaF is Christian interestingly enough
"All shall be joined as one" brings to mind some Stranger Things blob monster.
Intro Music should be the default haha
Fist bump if you're watching this while PC gaming
Incredible podcast!
That intro is insane!!!
I really enjoyed this discussion.
I'm just listening to "The Immortality Key", I'd be really interested in listening to a discussion between Jonathan and Brian Muraresku. I think Jonathan did a bit of a straw man on his ideas here. I'm not saying he's wrong, or right, I just don't think he did the ideas justice. It's a really fascinating book, and I find Brian Muraresku very engaging. I would really like to see this discussion.
Many thanks 🙏
That would be an interesting discussion, but I'd say Brian most definitely attacks and strawmans the early church and Christianity in general.
@@CourtesyPhone That may well be the case. I might not have phrased my comment very well. I'm definitely not trying to say either one of them is right or wrong, and I wasn't having a go at Jonathan, I love this man, he's had an enormous effect on my world view, that's why I was surprised to hear him dismiss BM's book without giving it it's due. I don't think Jonathan needs to do that, and I rarely hear him straw man things.
Look, I'm an idiot, I can barely put my thoughts into a comment, which is one of the reasons I enjoy listening to people like Jonathan, they teach me things I'd never figure out left to my own devices. I'd really like to hear a discussion between these 2 because I feel like they could both add to each others understanding, it would be a respectful discussion, and I'd learn a lot.
I'm really not good at putting my thoughts into writing, but hopefully I've clarified myself a little bit.
An experience of the absolute is a glimpse of God unrelative to concrete particularity. God is the Reality in all things, and only God is intrinsically Real. Our reality is participation in (donation by) God's Reality. And so we can say, quite literally, that only God is Real. This understanding is in Vedanta and classical nondual traditions across the world. Contemporary nonduality (westernized nonduality) confuses this more profound insight with the shallow philosophy that because God is the only intrinsic reality, our relative reality does not exist at all or does not exist in any sense. We exist because of God's charity with His own Life. The light of the moon reflected upon the water truly is the moon's light, but the light is not intrinsic to the water (we can be more technical here and say the moon's light isn't intrinsic but a reflection of the sun's light, but I digress).
Hey, I liked the Donkey Kong video! Do the Super Mario one! Especially since they have a movie coming out.
Chills man. Chills
love the new intro
This is brilliant
Intro music! 🔥
Please do the Mario video, Jonathan!
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