I know everyone is sick of remakes (particularly from disney) but this is one of those movies that actually should be remade with more care to culturally accurate representation for romani people, not to mention a more consistent tone, and a more nuanced potrayal of the themes of marginalization, oppression, and self acceptance.
That isn't gonna happen in the foreseeable future. Look at the themes of the movie. Corruption in the government? Actual themes of racism? Having to find an actor who actually has a hunchback? Ha! Looking at what Disney has been doing, I doubt they will have the balls to make a movie even close to The Hunchback of Norte Dame, let alone a remake.
Honestly I would support a remake because it could tackle the serious issues without toning it down and give enough time to flesh stuff out but sadly I think it could then just prompt Disney to just churn more of those remakes.
There are many beautiful Romani dances throughout the world to choose from if they want to remake this movie, idk why they opted for Tarantella the first time but now is the opportunity to better the representation and show cultural accuracy.
A lot of old Disney movies that weren't focused on European characters aren't the best cultural representations. Like I adore Mulan but it's not exactly an accurate representation of Chinese culture. That being said, Chinese culture at least as accurate representation nowadays while we haven't really seen much Romani representation. I loved Esmerelda when I watched the movie as a kid so I'd love to see a more accurate portrayal, I just don't know how it would turn out. Even though more culturally accurate the live action remakes from Disney have been pretty hit or miss 😭
@@romarose so you don't want accurate representation but get mad when someone who knows nothing about you makes a mistake. Its nice to know you have slur words for people that aren't you.
The only answer I could possibly think of (And this is being *nice* to disney) is that they didn't have the internet we have now at the time, so they didn't have enough information. I don't know why they didn't try to find some from actual accurate sources. But, who knows what they're thinking half the time🤷♀️
As a Calabrian I’d love to see both an accurate Romani Esmerelda and south Italian new character as well, both cultures not seen enough being accurately represented in common media
@@KoshVader maybe! If his original culture doesn’t really matter to the character, injecting a new identity as a means to represent Southern Italian culture could be a good idea!
You have the most on point UA-cam content about challenging ethnic stereotypes. We need explanations from your lived perspective we all need to understand . I’m really interested in learning about marginalized groups and comparing it to my experiences as a black woman. Here as an ally and supporter.
At that time here she was the only dark skin women (and with curly hair) ever put forth by Disney. I think a lot of cultures would get behind a re- creation that’s more accurate
@GhostOfCarlJung I wouldn't even call Pocahontas dark-skinned, though. Brown skinned, maybe, but this character is particularly and noticeably **dark**. So much so that little black girls looked to her for representation for the longest time. Me included.
@GhostOfCarlJung Not putting words in my mouth 🤣 all I said was she's more brown skinned. People tend to erase actual dark skin by calling women with a complexion like Pocahontas "dark skinned", so I imagine that was OP's original qualm with your comment. Both are great representatives for brown girls. Esmerelda just represents a "less acceptable"version of dark skin. Sorry you don't seem to understand that...
@GhostOfCarlJung And no, actually. We usually use the term "black and brown" or BIPOC to distinguish. Mainly because black people--especially dark skinned black people-- are often left out of the discourse surrounding POC.
I'm going to be honest I'm British and before seeing your channel I didn't even know Romani people were generally dark skinned throughout Europe since those that live here aren't. It has quickly become very clear to me that my small amount of knowledge of the Roma people is very extremely specific to Britain, and the little that isn't comes from popular culture that is highly biased, and either romanticisation or prejudice. Esmeralda should be Romani, should perform traditional dances if appropriate, and should showcase Roma culture that usually would not be shown.
This might be because in the UK there are a lot of irish travellers as well as romani. I'd only ever heard of irish travellers on british tv and their ancestry is irish and not indian hence the lighter complexion.
Florian, Thank you so much for bringing all the Romani culture to us! You are a wonderful people! After all the persecution, you love life and show it.
I'm a blonde European girl but I was really fascinated by Esmeralda she's one of my Disney favourites to me she was so different. Her eyes are so striking and mysterious! Representation matters for so many reasons.
I think the reason is that the actress who played Esmeralda in the movie (still inacurate rep),Gina Lollobrigida, was italian and used that style of dance in a really famous scene in the movie
Esmeralda is also a dark skin representative to black girls too. I'm not kidding. After The Hunchback came out I would see little black girls sport Esmeralda backpacks and garments to school. During the 90$ Jasmine was too light and Tiana wasn't drawn yet so Esmeralda was the closest to a black princess despite not being black or a princess. Also Pocahontas.
Maybe we should start caring more about other cultures, is so funny to me how in Spain Romani people were never mentioned in my history class but they did so much for us. If the only for of representation Romani people are getting is Esmeralda, she MUST BE ACCURATE because people will believe everything as true since she is the only Romani they know.
Every person deserves to see themself represented in media, I’m so glad you are talking about this and shedding light on an issue that many people are completely ignorant to.
I’ve tried to animate a traditional Romani dance, let me tell you, it’s HARD. Maybe it’s just I’m not good at animating dancing, but who knows? Romani women have skills!
The Disney Esmeralda is a dark-skinned Romani woman. They follow a different timeline, though. The original Esmeralda is from Paris and was raised by Romani people after being taken away from her mother and being exchanged with Quasimodo. So, originally, Quasimodo is the romani character.
You know there's Southern Italian Roma... we've been in Italy since the late 13th century fleeing the balkans from ottoman oppression and we Rom are great at playing tarantella with our own Rom twist
For 2d animation, flamenco (which is also a dance that most people are familiar with) would be indeed very difficult to animate, whereas it would be easier for 3d animation. However, there are indeed many beautiful Romani dances to choose from.
@@trippy_dragon8726 true, but I'm also thinking about how easy it would be/how willing they would be to find dancers who actually know the specific dance. Not excusing them though, just expressing my thought process!
@boopdedoop3764 From what I know of, early forms of animation regarding dancing was extremely difficult. Even the movie Hercules was a pain in the ass for Disney crews to draw because of its high pace energy and constant scene changes. I think Romani dances has so many intricate steps and subtle movements within its already grand dance. That maked it impossible until the 2010's by using 3d animation.
Reminds me of how they used an East European folk singing style (Georgian I think?) for Brother Bear's "native American nature chorus". Like nah bro, that's a whole other continent sir
We learned about tarantella in creative movement class and how to do some of the moves, I loved it, had an amazing time. Hands down one of my favohrite dances.
My guess is that they had her dancing Tarantella with some slight aspects of other dances like Raqs Balardi (Egyptian Bellydance) to make her appear more "sultry" and "seductive", adding more to the negative stereotype of the Romani women being insanely sexual, beautiful, and skilled 'witches' and seductresses. Considering the whole point of Esmeralda's role in both the film and the 1830 book by Victor Hugo, it would not be surprising: Quasimodo saw her as stunningly beautiful and kind and wanted to protect her in the same way she protected him. But to Judge Frollo, she was a 'harlot', a 'witch' and the source of his wish to sin. And they wanted to portray that in a very obvious way. The movie was released in 1996 - the height of the Golden Era for Disney. Animation was developed enough that they could have quite easily drawn her doing traditional Romani dance.
Absolutely beside the point I know, but the Tarantella is also the song used most often in media to "set the scene" to show Italian people and culture. And they never list the song. If you look up "Italian song" it shows up on a list with "That's Amore" and "Women are Fickle" (from that opera about the rakish Don), but most Canadians and Americans have no idea what the whole song sounds like or that there's a traditional folk dance attached to it. People here are so divorced from their own history and culture and deeply ignorant about the entire rest of the world. I know, I'm one of them and even growing up in a "culturally aware" family, I'm still learning new things every day and desperately unlearning the wrong things I learned previously.
Moreover, it is also disrespectful to use tarantella to represent all Italians in movies when every region in Italy has its own unique culture, language and traditions. They put them all in the same box like if they were all the same. It is also ironic that That’s Amore is not an Italian song but it was composed and written by Americans. Everything about Italians in Hollywood is fabricated by the heavily stereotyped views Americans have on the country.
As a artist, I honestly see it just being the fact that it could be too hard to animate for back them. I mean I feel like most people forget that old Disney movies like that were purely animated from hand drawings. Was literally just a huge flip book. It’s why older Disney movies look better than todays Disney animated movies. But imo that’s the only reason I can see why Disney would choose a different dance, and I kinda don’t blame them. It takes a lot to draw every single movement and make it look smooth, I’m sure they struggled enough with the dance they chose for her. Either way I’d love to see Disney remake the movie and have Esmeralda dance culturally accurate.
Local Italian ready for the "your traditional dances have been appropriated from Romani people all along" bomb to hit. I'm ready to find out about it any time now, and I'd not fuss because that's what the world is.
Cultural appropriation is bullshit created to divide people. As an Italian if someone found my traditions that good to imitate them, well, that is great for them! In the same way I don't see why everyone couldn't do the same, it's a great way to enrich your culture. The only problem appears when people pretend the "borrowed" version is the original one, if that doesn't happen, everything is good. We are aware we live in a country shaped like a port and a bridge at the same time, our traditions come from all over Europe and North Africa, some even from the western parts of Asia, I don't see how that is bad, if anything it is wonderful, who denies this and believes that Italian culture, or really any culture, came from itself is delusional. If I learnt that some of our traditions came from Romani that would be hardly a surprise, they've been here for a long time, it's bound to happen.
My guess is that it was likely difficult to properly research Romani culture/cultural dances in the mid-90s. If they ever do a remake of The Hunchback they will hopefully be able to utilize the more accurate information that is now available thanks to the digital age :)
In the book Esmerelda was a white girl. Who lived with and was raised by Romani. It's a big part of the original story. She still would have danced like a Romani.
Man you are fierce regarding proper Romani representation! You have my utmost respect. I am amazed how the darker skin color matters to you in authenticity. Many other cultures want to look European with the porcelain skin and blonde hair. Which is fine when it is their choice, but there is beauty in dark skin tones and healthy brunette and black hair! I enjoy the variety of human characteristics. Bravo, sir, enlightening the world of your culture!
Yes Romani children deserve to see their culture represented on film, as all cultures do. But the world isn’t responsible for that, you are. Make your own movies if you wanna see your own people on screen.
I think it could have been a mix of the two first things you said, like hard to animate and hard to look like actual romani dancers, but anyways that movie needs a remake, but its scary to think that they could messed up again
Why do I picture Esmeralda learning the dance from an Italian traveler because she thought it looked fun? Seeing an accurate Esmeralda will be epic though.
I think the reason was the goal of her dance was to entertain the Parisian folk, so she danced a dance which that ppl. actually would like to watch, not her own folk's dance. Just like in the book described she performs currently popular spanish dances.
Oh, I always thought she was Egyptian because they called her a gypsy. just looked it up and in the books she was born half French but then grew up in Ramani. I guess they were trying to show through her dancing how much she traveled? idk.
My piano teacher (as she was teaching me a goofy tarantella) told me it why it is named tarantella. It is because it oroginated from the folk remedy to get rid of a tarantualas
Thank you so much for your videos, comrade. It is refreshing to learn about misrepresented cultures from individuals that speak from experience, such as yourself. You motivate me, as a historian, to research more about romani history and cultural practices.
There's some pretty cool Romani representation in this show called Hemlock Grove. I'm not sure if it's accurate but the lead character Peter is Romani and he's an amazing character.
I’m from Eastern Europe and there is many Romi people there many marry 12 year olds to old men so it’s not just this rainbows and sunshine. They beg for money and don’t contribute to society.
THIS!! This is almost exactly how I feel about the Disney Pocahontas as a Native American! But if you are going to remake something like HOND or Lilo and Stitch, I just would want Disney to do these characters justice and change problematic aspects from the past. There's no excuse not to with the knowledge we have at hand! I wouldn't even want a remake of Pocahontas even though I have a great deal of nostalgia for her character, but there's no reason they can't create an original Native American heroine for more children of this current generation to look up to and see themselves in (and that goes for poc in general)!!
Yeah. People talk about representation but the only representation I see of my people is in true crime shows- I’m glad people are speaking out and sharing their culture :) (Btw if you’re wondering I’m Aboriginal Australian. If you have any cool examples of representation in media for that I’d love to hear it)
I believe in accurate representation of people and their culture but bro no people group or there culture “deserves” to be on screen. Film is a creative art form as such it’s up to the creatives working on it.
I watch every single one of your videos as they pop up in my recommendations; I really love and appreciate the time and effort you put into educating people about your beautiful culture. Something I'd love to see (if you have the time of course!) is your take on the character Simza and the Romani people in "Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows." Specifically, if the Romani people are portrayed accurately (I have my doubts, there seems to be a lot of gross stereotypes), if the attitudes toward the Romani are accurate for the time period, etc. I know Noomi Rapace (the actress for Simza) believes she has Romani ancestry, as well If you already covered this, then disregard! I just couldn't find anything in the shorts regarding this. Thank you for all your time and effort!! It's really appreciated!
I was wondering what your opinion on Nadja from What We Do in The Shadows as Romani representation, she’s shown as both Greek and Romani in the show and I’ve only seen responses from Greek people
The hunger games prequel book (ballad of songbirds and snakes) had characters that were seemingly romani coded but it looks like the film adaptation is going to be distancing itself from that a bit. I dont know if it's really ideal to just code characters as a certain ethnic group but it may be worse to just remove that altogether.
1. Love your channel and all your insights! You are a wonderful channel that provides so much information, knowledge, awareness, and representation! I enjoy everything you post. 2. Tarantella originated from a "remedy" from an poisonous spider bite. Many believed dancing could cure one before their death. In deeper analysis - although not correct at all, perhaps it was literary choice to represent Esmerald's unfortunate and slow demise, as a reference Nora from Henry Ibsen's A Dollhouse???? Still they should have provide more accurate depictions.
i'm laughing/weeping right now, i cant with "maybe it was too hard to research good examples"! it's true though! when hunchback came out, the internet wasnt really a thing. the animators had to watch the rita hayworth performance and ww2 footage/Rhom depictions in classic horror films to gather the movements. Gadjos es retts nin haiin/non rhomany people see what they like
I really like to watch your shorts! And I am sorry, I really love Esmeralda cause she is a strong and kind character and as a child I chose her as my role model! But I wish they would have done more research in the 90s.
@kristinajunker9729 Same, Esmeralda was my role model as a kid. I wanted to be strong and stand up for what’s right like she does. She had such a beautiful heart and that’s what I wanted to be like. I could get really excited about a remake of this film if they represent her and her culture accurately.
As an animator and character designer it was definitely because it was too difficult. It would be a lot easier with 3d animation, but when every frame is hand drawn like in 2d animation, dances like flamenco would be either incredibly difficult or sloppy looking. And they weren't really trying to be culturally accurate anyway, which is probably why they didn't try to animate a Romani dance. If they make a live action or 3d hunchback I hope they include a Romani dance.
Random question as you are the best resource/person to ask! I wondered if the romani community have any particular views towards body modifications such as piercings or tattoos! I have tried to research but found it hard to find any credible sources and I wanted to know for a character from a comic my friend and I are writing and illustrating! If you have time to answer in any form we’d be most grateful! 🙏
We are usually against body modifications as they go against our cultural traditions but it depends on the person, however we don’t have tattoos or piercings in our culture traditionally
At the time, it may have been too hard to research at the time (would have to go to Europe and find a Romani willing to be filmed doing 2 or 3 dances. Didn't have UA-cam and Google in the early 90s had to use ask jeeves), and some of the Romani folk dances could've been too difficult to animate at this time.
I know that pretty much remakes are done but it would be so amazing and bada$$ for someone at Disney to make a new story with new, well researched characters to make a NEW film about the Romani culture. Like we are so done with remakes, please dear God someone make something new and exciting and culturally accurate!
I am going to write Romani people of all skin tones and stuff into my books for you so that if they sell we can make a series and have children relate. Ofc not all the characters will be Romani but maybe the main characters bff or even love interest, a step sibling perhaps? Love your content! ❤❤❤❤ Im not Romani by the way hungarian but i was often told that i cannot be my mothers child because my skin is very light while my mom is a more bronze color and that always hurt (also there is a chance i habe some Romani in me because hungarians are known to mix with everyone all over).
Why does Esmeralda only have to do Romani dances, can she not do any kind of dance she wants? I'm Irish but I don't only Irish dance whenever i do dance
I have just realized that the version of the hunchback of noterdam I grew up with is definitely not the one by disnay, or the original. Is it accurate to say I "grew up with it" at all when I just sort of knew the general story until I read a book for my English book report? The version I read was rewritten simplified to suit people who learn English as a second language, like I was, and it did not have any esmarlda, I did not even know this character is from the hunchback. How odd
This isn’t really related to the video, but I was wondering if the opera, *Carmen*, is good representation? It’s French, and there was a lot of criticism when it released in 1875, but it’s now one of the most popular operas. Performances of the opera vary, so different performances might have better representation than others. The Romani characters are used for comic relief, and Carmen fits the seductress trope, though there is more depth to her character
In the Book she isn't actually a romani. She was French and was kidnapped as a baby by a romani woman who was Quasimodos mother who switched them because he was deformed.
While research was fairly difficult in the mid 90s (internet wasn't what it is today, books were still prime source) Hollywood has proven time and time again to be too lazy and careless for accuracy.
One thing that Disney made clear in the movie is that the Romani at the beginning and during the introduction to Esmeralda’s character were travelers. They did not permanently live in Paris (versus Claupin, for example). With travel comes inspiration, which usually comes from experiencing someone else’s culture. It’s very possible that Esmeralda danced the Tarantella because she saw it performed during her travels and fell in love with the movements. Another thing I wanted to point out in a different video was the theory of why Quasimodo looks so different. The prevalent theory is that he may have been a “changeling”, as in a baby left out in the woods to die by his birth family who probably assumed he wasn’t theirs due to his deformities. Considering how passionately his mother fought to save him from Frollo, it’s not a stretch to imagine she probably heard his cries while traveling and saved him. In short: not everything has to be negative. Yes, I really do want to see more and better representation of Romani people! But also-please give people the benefit of the doubt. And never forget how much we humans love to travel 😅
No because Tarantella and Tarantismo were born in Apulia, specifically in the province of Taranto, and it's associated to the Tarantula spider which is common in that region
Tarantismo was a fenomenon, mostly common amongst women, where People who believed they had been bitten by a Tarantula, would have to dance frantically, until exhaustion, to expel the poison out of their body. Nowadays we know that most Tarantula aren't actually dangerous to humans, and the fenomenon might have been cause by another spider species, or it was a way for people to free themselves of negative emotions/physical pains, cause by depression, neurological issues and other health issues
Do you think there’s any way to salvage The Hunchback of Notre Dame story? It’d be interesting to see a rewrite that was culturally accurate. But the story is so full of problematic tropes that I wonder if it’s possible.
Even though she's not accurate and possi le offensive to some.... growing up not knowing anything about the Romani ppl I always was fond of her because her character was not only beautiful but smart and kind despite the crap thrown at her from the French society around her. And she did help shape my idea of the Romani ppl at the time. But now theres a andw version coming iut maybe she will be rendered more appropriately than before..
I’m really tired of people relying on Disney and movies to represent them . Dude there is documentaries you can make .like Hollywood doesn’t owe you nothing. I wish people stop whining over everything it’s tiring
Me to I’m Kurdish and I’ve never seen any Kurd in a cartoon but we have documentaries about our culture and I don’t make my entire personality whining about it
@@ghostdagamero-o966 You see you can use common sense . Everyone now wants their movies , characters and all like no American production owe anyone anything. If someone wants to represent their culture or country they should make it themselves.
It was made roughly in the same era as Alladin. I think people just did crap research then. The architecture in Alladin is more a mix of Indian and Slavic styles, not Arab. I'm much older than you, and I can say, at that time, seeing a brown Disney Princess at all was major progress. Its great that we're now at a point when there's a push for accurate representation, rather than just representation at all, and the Internet has made it so easy to do proper research and connect with real people from other cultures. Back then, it could take a few minutes to load a Web page if too many people were using the Internet (which we got through our landline phones), and there was so little information out there on the "world wide web." Libraries had limited collections, and it could take weeks to have a book sent to your library. I think the animators were probably doing the best they could, and were certainly doing better than the previous generation. I hope you can use this platform to inspire better media representation raise, or even raise money to create your own Romani projects. I would donate for sure.
I like how you included the fact that she was dark skinned. Very rarely do we get a good representation or role models and its important to acknowledge that
Disney needs to stop making live actions and race swapping characters [I have no problems with the race swapping I’m just mad they can’t be bothered to create new characters and story’s and instead cash in on nostalgia] and create some new things. Plus there’s no representation for neurodivergent people and barely any for people who don’t fit the gender norm. My hair won’t grow long enough to even put in a ponytail and it’s always been one of my insecurities so it would be great if they stopped with the boys have short hair and girls have long hair trend. I wish they had more neurodivergent characters [I only know of one character that was confirmed to be neurodivergent but they died 😭] but unfortunately they aren’t even making any new stories. Maybe in the future they’ll start creating amazing things again.
I know everyone is sick of remakes (particularly from disney) but this is one of those movies that actually should be remade with more care to culturally accurate representation for romani people, not to mention a more consistent tone, and a more nuanced potrayal of the themes of marginalization, oppression, and self acceptance.
That isn't gonna happen in the foreseeable future. Look at the themes of the movie. Corruption in the government? Actual themes of racism? Having to find an actor who actually has a hunchback? Ha! Looking at what Disney has been doing, I doubt they will have the balls to make a movie even close to The Hunchback of Norte Dame, let alone a remake.
I agree, but I wouldn't trust any of the big Hollywood studios or production companies to get it right...
Honestly I would support a remake because it could tackle the serious issues without toning it down and give enough time to flesh stuff out but sadly I think it could then just prompt Disney to just churn more of those remakes.
I would watch the heck out of that
@@aqualinebutbetter If they did another animated version they could do something cool, but you're right. They likely wouldn't touch those topics
very tempted to try to draw a storyboard of Esmerelda doing an actual Romani dance
Do it 🙏
DO IT
Do it
the people have spoken, ill post it to my pinterest and drop a link here when its done :)
@@the.crow.apollo Can’t wait to see it when it’s finished! :)
There are many beautiful Romani dances throughout the world to choose from if they want to remake this movie, idk why they opted for Tarantella the first time but now is the opportunity to better the representation and show cultural accuracy.
@@romarosei don't think its specific to Disney, I think they're talking about representation in media in general
A lot of old Disney movies that weren't focused on European characters aren't the best cultural representations. Like I adore Mulan but it's not exactly an accurate representation of Chinese culture. That being said, Chinese culture at least as accurate representation nowadays while we haven't really seen much Romani representation. I loved Esmerelda when I watched the movie as a kid so I'd love to see a more accurate portrayal, I just don't know how it would turn out. Even though more culturally accurate the live action remakes from Disney have been pretty hit or miss 😭
@@romarose so you don't want accurate representation but get mad when someone who knows nothing about you makes a mistake.
Its nice to know you have slur words for people that aren't you.
Oh boo hoo they call me gypsy, proceeds to call others bumpkins, or barbarians. Cute, hate starts at home mam.
The only answer I could possibly think of (And this is being *nice* to disney) is that they didn't have the internet we have now at the time, so they didn't have enough information. I don't know why they didn't try to find some from actual accurate sources.
But, who knows what they're thinking half the time🤷♀️
As a Calabrian I’d love to see both an accurate Romani Esmerelda and south Italian new character as well, both cultures not seen enough being accurately represented in common media
I'd be so glad too, my four grandparents were from Calabria, I miss them and I regret that they didn't pass us down more of their culture.
Im Calabrian too! And I agree
Perhaps they could make Phoebus Calabrian? They change his name in the Disney musical anyway.
@@JI04 for real!! So much southern Italian culture has been washed away with the very modernized and idealized culture of the north
@@KoshVader maybe! If his original culture doesn’t really matter to the character, injecting a new identity as a means to represent Southern Italian culture could be a good idea!
You have the most on point UA-cam content about challenging ethnic stereotypes. We need explanations from your lived perspective we all need to understand . I’m really interested in learning about marginalized groups and comparing it to my experiences as a black woman.
Here as an ally and supporter.
At that time here she was the only dark skin women (and with curly hair) ever put forth by Disney. I think a lot of cultures would get behind a re- creation that’s more accurate
Esmeralda is gorgeous
@GhostOfCarlJung please reread my comment because I was particularly talking about somebody with curly hair
@GhostOfCarlJung I wouldn't even call Pocahontas dark-skinned, though. Brown skinned, maybe, but this character is particularly and noticeably **dark**. So much so that little black girls looked to her for representation for the longest time. Me included.
@GhostOfCarlJung Not putting words in my mouth 🤣 all I said was she's more brown skinned. People tend to erase actual dark skin by calling women with a complexion like Pocahontas "dark skinned", so I imagine that was OP's original qualm with your comment. Both are great representatives for brown girls. Esmerelda just represents a "less acceptable"version of dark skin. Sorry you don't seem to understand that...
@GhostOfCarlJung And no, actually. We usually use the term "black and brown" or BIPOC to distinguish. Mainly because black people--especially dark skinned black people-- are often left out of the discourse surrounding POC.
I'm going to be honest I'm British and before seeing your channel I didn't even know Romani people were generally dark skinned throughout Europe since those that live here aren't. It has quickly become very clear to me that my small amount of knowledge of the Roma people is very extremely specific to Britain, and the little that isn't comes from popular culture that is highly biased, and either romanticisation or prejudice. Esmeralda should be Romani, should perform traditional dances if appropriate, and should showcase Roma culture that usually would not be shown.
This might be because in the UK there are a lot of irish travellers as well as romani. I'd only ever heard of irish travellers on british tv and their ancestry is irish and not indian hence the lighter complexion.
Florian, Thank you so much for bringing all the Romani culture to us! You are a wonderful people! After all the persecution, you love life and show it.
As an animator saying "Maybe real Romani dances were too difficult to animate" is a really sick burn, and would keep me up at night. Keep it up.
I wish you put in a clip of Romani dancing as a example of what it could have looked like
flamenco is stronlgy releted to Romani dance and influenced by Romani spanish people
I'm a blonde European girl but I was really fascinated by Esmeralda she's one of my Disney favourites to me she was so different. Her eyes are so striking and mysterious! Representation matters for so many reasons.
It's a beautiful Italian dance, but it would've been cool to see a more accurate one
I think the reason is that the actress who played Esmeralda in the movie (still inacurate rep),Gina Lollobrigida, was italian and used that style of dance in a really famous scene in the movie
In the 1956 movie
This is almost certainly the real reasons considering how much inspiration they clearly took from it. Especially visually.
Esmeralda is also a dark skin representative to black girls too. I'm not kidding. After The Hunchback came out I would see little black girls sport Esmeralda backpacks and garments to school. During the 90$ Jasmine was too light and Tiana wasn't drawn yet so Esmeralda was the closest to a black princess despite not being black or a princess. Also Pocahontas.
Awwww!!! That's so sweet!
Maybe we should start caring more about other cultures, is so funny to me how in Spain Romani people were never mentioned in my history class but they did so much for us. If the only for of representation Romani people are getting is Esmeralda, she MUST BE ACCURATE because people will believe everything as true since she is the only Romani they know.
👏👏👏👏👏
Exactly. Like flamenco music and dance isn’t inherently Spanish but Romani
Every person deserves to see themself represented in media, I’m so glad you are talking about this and shedding light on an issue that many people are completely ignorant to.
I’ve tried to animate a traditional Romani dance, let me tell you, it’s HARD. Maybe it’s just I’m not good at animating dancing, but who knows? Romani women have skills!
The Disney Esmeralda is a dark-skinned Romani woman. They follow a different timeline, though. The original Esmeralda is from Paris and was raised by Romani people after being taken away from her mother and being exchanged with Quasimodo. So, originally, Quasimodo is the romani character.
You know there's Southern Italian Roma... we've been in Italy since the late 13th century fleeing the balkans from ottoman oppression and we Rom are great at playing tarantella with our own Rom twist
True but I think he meant that Esmeralda doesn't come from this region therefore it is inaccurate
tarantella is southern italian though and from ancient greece not romani
as a southern italain American (my family is from Catanzaro) we use tarantella as a wedding celebration song
Yep also thank you for researching the pronunciation, it was very good!!
For 2d animation, flamenco (which is also a dance that most people are familiar with) would be indeed very difficult to animate, whereas it would be easier for 3d animation. However, there are indeed many beautiful Romani dances to choose from.
Disney used rotoscoping tecqniques since the late 30s tho, so with that they could have animated anything really
@@trippy_dragon8726 true, but I'm also thinking about how easy it would be/how willing they would be to find dancers who actually know the specific dance. Not excusing them though, just expressing my thought process!
@boopdedoop3764 From what I know of, early forms of animation regarding dancing was extremely difficult. Even the movie Hercules was a pain in the ass for Disney crews to draw because of its high pace energy and constant scene changes. I think Romani dances has so many intricate steps and subtle movements within its already grand dance. That maked it impossible until the 2010's by using 3d animation.
Reminds me of how they used an East European folk singing style (Georgian I think?) for Brother Bear's "native American nature chorus". Like nah bro, that's a whole other continent sir
We learned about tarantella in creative movement class and how to do some of the moves, I loved it, had an amazing time. Hands down one of my favohrite dances.
OK TARANTELLA IS ACTUALLY REALLY INTERESTING. it was originally a dance that was done to cure a spider bite, its where tarantulas get their name!
tarantella looks fun!
My guess is that they had her dancing Tarantella with some slight aspects of other dances like Raqs Balardi (Egyptian Bellydance) to make her appear more "sultry" and "seductive", adding more to the negative stereotype of the Romani women being insanely sexual, beautiful, and skilled 'witches' and seductresses. Considering the whole point of Esmeralda's role in both the film and the 1830 book by Victor Hugo, it would not be surprising: Quasimodo saw her as stunningly beautiful and kind and wanted to protect her in the same way she protected him. But to Judge Frollo, she was a 'harlot', a 'witch' and the source of his wish to sin. And they wanted to portray that in a very obvious way.
The movie was released in 1996 - the height of the Golden Era for Disney. Animation was developed enough that they could have quite easily drawn her doing traditional Romani dance.
Absolutely beside the point I know, but the Tarantella is also the song used most often in media to "set the scene" to show Italian people and culture. And they never list the song. If you look up "Italian song" it shows up on a list with "That's Amore" and "Women are Fickle" (from that opera about the rakish Don), but most Canadians and Americans have no idea what the whole song sounds like or that there's a traditional folk dance attached to it.
People here are so divorced from their own history and culture and deeply ignorant about the entire rest of the world. I know, I'm one of them and even growing up in a "culturally aware" family, I'm still learning new things every day and desperately unlearning the wrong things I learned previously.
Moreover, it is also disrespectful to use tarantella to represent all Italians in movies when every region in Italy has its own unique culture, language and traditions. They put them all in the same box like if they were all the same. It is also ironic that That’s Amore is not an Italian song but it was composed and written by Americans. Everything about Italians in Hollywood is fabricated by the heavily stereotyped views Americans have on the country.
Romani kids have you to look up to Florian. You're a superhero❤
As a artist, I honestly see it just being the fact that it could be too hard to animate for back them. I mean I feel like most people forget that old Disney movies like that were purely animated from hand drawings. Was literally just a huge flip book. It’s why older Disney movies look better than todays Disney animated movies. But imo that’s the only reason I can see why Disney would choose a different dance, and I kinda don’t blame them. It takes a lot to draw every single movement and make it look smooth, I’m sure they struggled enough with the dance they chose for her. Either way I’d love to see Disney remake the movie and have Esmeralda dance culturally accurate.
Local Italian ready for the "your traditional dances have been appropriated from Romani people all along" bomb to hit.
I'm ready to find out about it any time now, and I'd not fuss because that's what the world is.
@@akmilli8179 “I’d not fuss” I said
Cultural appropriation is bullshit created to divide people.
As an Italian if someone found my traditions that good to imitate them, well, that is great for them! In the same way I don't see why everyone couldn't do the same, it's a great way to enrich your culture.
The only problem appears when people pretend the "borrowed" version is the original one, if that doesn't happen, everything is good.
We are aware we live in a country shaped like a port and a bridge at the same time, our traditions come from all over Europe and North Africa, some even from the western parts of Asia, I don't see how that is bad, if anything it is wonderful, who denies this and believes that Italian culture, or really any culture, came from itself is delusional. If I learnt that some of our traditions came from Romani that would be hardly a surprise, they've been here for a long time, it's bound to happen.
Wdym?
Disney relly loves stereotypes 💀
@@zlugg0 yeah
This not a stereotype, this just an inaccuracy🤦🏻♀️
@@anayabaya6370 ok btw this comment is a year old 💀
@@blue_twitch___5371 Yes,i know😐
There are lots of tarantellas actualy, i appreciate you put neapolitan tarantella in the background
Tarantella is a category, not a specific dance. It’s like salsa.
My guess is that it was likely difficult to properly research Romani culture/cultural dances in the mid-90s. If they ever do a remake of The Hunchback they will hopefully be able to utilize the more accurate information that is now available thanks to the digital age :)
In the book Esmerelda was a white girl. Who lived with and was raised by Romani. It's a big part of the original story. She still would have danced like a Romani.
Man you are fierce regarding proper Romani representation! You have my utmost respect. I am amazed how the darker skin color matters to you in authenticity. Many other cultures want to look European with the porcelain skin and blonde hair. Which is fine when it is their choice, but there is beauty in dark skin tones and healthy brunette and black hair! I enjoy the variety of human characteristics. Bravo, sir, enlightening the world of your culture!
My mother is a Romani and I'm half Romani
Yes Romani children deserve to see their culture represented on film, as all cultures do. But the world isn’t responsible for that, you are. Make your own movies if you wanna see your own people on screen.
I'm not Romani but I loved Esmeralda as a kid maybe cause she was one of the few darker Disney character's
I think it could have been a mix of the two first things you said, like hard to animate and hard to look like actual romani dancers, but anyways that movie needs a remake, but its scary to think that they could messed up again
This guy has made his whole culture his personality it’s insane every single video has Romani I’m it
Ok and he’s Romani why does someone being comfortable in their cultural identity make you so mad lol and you don’t know his whole personality cacker
I really hope they do it and someone has heard your notes and input
I love this type of dance. It looks so freeing and fun.
Why do I picture Esmeralda learning the dance from an Italian traveler because she thought it looked fun? Seeing an accurate Esmeralda will be epic though.
because it is sincerely the only one to make it have sense. She was not from south Italy in a time where travel was hard and rare.
I think the reason was the goal of her dance was to entertain the Parisian folk, so she danced a dance which that ppl. actually would like to watch, not her own folk's dance. Just like in the book described she performs currently popular spanish dances.
Most likely the reason Esmeralda is in Paris - probably visited Italy and learnt the pretty dance and travelled elsewhere
Oh, I always thought she was Egyptian because they called her a gypsy. just looked it up and in the books she was born half French but then grew up in Ramani. I guess they were trying to show through her dancing how much she traveled? idk.
My piano teacher (as she was teaching me a goofy tarantella) told me it why it is named tarantella. It is because it oroginated from the folk remedy to get rid of a tarantualas
The impression I get... Is that they got drunk, shrugged, and told themselves that Italians and Roma are both brown.
Thank you so much for your videos, comrade. It is refreshing to learn about misrepresented cultures from individuals that speak from experience, such as yourself. You motivate me, as a historian, to research more about romani history and cultural practices.
There's some pretty cool Romani representation in this show called Hemlock Grove. I'm not sure if it's accurate but the lead character Peter is Romani and he's an amazing character.
Romani people are so beautiful to me. I want to learn more about your culture
I’m from Eastern Europe and there is many Romi people there many marry 12 year olds to old men so it’s not just this rainbows and sunshine. They beg for money and don’t contribute to society.
THIS!! This is almost exactly how I feel about the Disney Pocahontas as a Native American! But if you are going to remake something like HOND or Lilo and Stitch, I just would want Disney to do these characters justice and change problematic aspects from the past. There's no excuse not to with the knowledge we have at hand!
I wouldn't even want a remake of Pocahontas even though I have a great deal of nostalgia for her character, but there's no reason they can't create an original Native American heroine for more children of this current generation to look up to and see themselves in (and that goes for poc in general)!!
Yeah. People talk about representation but the only representation I see of my people is in true crime shows- I’m glad people are speaking out and sharing their culture :)
(Btw if you’re wondering I’m Aboriginal Australian. If you have any cool examples of representation in media for that I’d love to hear it)
I hope if they ever did a live version they will be more accurate in their depiction of the culture she represents
I believe in accurate representation of people and their culture but bro no people group or there culture “deserves” to be on screen. Film is a creative art form as such it’s up to the creatives working on it.
Maybe it's because she was preforming local dances to appeal to the audience she was preforming for.
Tarutulla looks so fun and I plan on doing more research
It’s disappointing that they didn’t use the proper dance but to be fair it would probably have been incredibly difficult to animate ACCURATELY
I do remember reading a possible reason for it but I can’t recall it
I watch every single one of your videos as they pop up in my recommendations; I really love and appreciate the time and effort you put into educating people about your beautiful culture.
Something I'd love to see (if you have the time of course!) is your take on the character Simza and the Romani people in "Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows." Specifically, if the Romani people are portrayed accurately (I have my doubts, there seems to be a lot of gross stereotypes), if the attitudes toward the Romani are accurate for the time period, etc.
I know Noomi Rapace (the actress for Simza) believes she has Romani ancestry, as well
If you already covered this, then disregard! I just couldn't find anything in the shorts regarding this.
Thank you for all your time and effort!! It's really appreciated!
I was wondering what your opinion on Nadja from What We Do in The Shadows as Romani representation, she’s shown as both Greek and Romani in the show and I’ve only seen responses from Greek people
The hunger games prequel book (ballad of songbirds and snakes) had characters that were seemingly romani coded but it looks like the film adaptation is going to be distancing itself from that a bit. I dont know if it's really ideal to just code characters as a certain ethnic group but it may be worse to just remove that altogether.
1. Love your channel and all your insights! You are a wonderful channel that provides so much information, knowledge, awareness, and representation! I enjoy everything you post.
2. Tarantella originated from a "remedy" from an poisonous spider bite. Many believed dancing could cure one before their death. In deeper analysis - although not correct at all, perhaps it was literary choice to represent Esmerald's unfortunate and slow demise, as a reference Nora from Henry Ibsen's A Dollhouse???? Still they should have provide more accurate depictions.
Ooh I love the dances. I love seeing the wedding dances bc ppl are so mf happy and cute and ahh
i'm laughing/weeping right now, i cant with "maybe it was too hard to research good examples"! it's true though! when hunchback came out, the internet wasnt really a thing. the animators had to watch the rita hayworth performance and ww2 footage/Rhom depictions in classic horror films to gather the movements.
Gadjos es retts nin haiin/non rhomany people see what they like
I really like to watch your shorts! And I am sorry, I really love Esmeralda cause she is a strong and kind character and as a child I chose her as my role model! But I wish they would have done more research in the 90s.
@kristinajunker9729 Same, Esmeralda was my role model as a kid. I wanted to be strong and stand up for what’s right like she does. She had such a beautiful heart and that’s what I wanted to be like. I could get really excited about a remake of this film if they represent her and her culture accurately.
Thank you for sharing your wonderful knowledge ❤❤
Thanks dear Florian ❤
I hope they pull you in as a consultant! 🎉
As an animator and character designer it was definitely because it was too difficult. It would be a lot easier with 3d animation, but when every frame is hand drawn like in 2d animation, dances like flamenco would be either incredibly difficult or sloppy looking. And they weren't really trying to be culturally accurate anyway, which is probably why they didn't try to animate a Romani dance. If they make a live action or 3d hunchback I hope they include a Romani dance.
Random question as you are the best resource/person to ask! I wondered if the romani community have any particular views towards body modifications such as piercings or tattoos! I have tried to research but found it hard to find any credible sources and I wanted to know for a character from a comic my friend and I are writing and illustrating! If you have time to answer in any form we’d be most grateful! 🙏
We are usually against body modifications as they go against our cultural traditions but it depends on the person, however we don’t have tattoos or piercings in our culture traditionally
This movie came out in 1996. There was no UA-cam back then. The information would not have been as readily available.
At the time, it may have been too hard to research at the time (would have to go to Europe and find a Romani willing to be filmed doing 2 or 3 dances. Didn't have UA-cam and Google in the early 90s had to use ask jeeves), and some of the Romani folk dances could've been too difficult to animate at this time.
Ah I thought Esmeralda was roma-italian and that's why she danced like that
like I think I heard/read this somewhere
no, she was born in Paris and grow up in Paris .
I honestly think even if they made a live action, they wouldn’t make her dark skin.
Plus, the name "Esmeralda" is actually the Spanish word for "emerald"
She actually might be from Italy bc her stage name is La Esmeralda, and the Sicilian designs on the drapes while she dances
Could you pos the video about the first dancer girl (purple dress)?
I know that pretty much remakes are done but it would be so amazing and bada$$ for someone at Disney to make a new story with new, well researched characters to make a NEW film about the Romani culture. Like we are so done with remakes, please dear God someone make something new and exciting and culturally accurate!
I am going to write Romani people of all skin tones and stuff into my books for you so that if they sell we can make a series and have children relate. Ofc not all the characters will be Romani but maybe the main characters bff or even love interest, a step sibling perhaps? Love your content! ❤❤❤❤
Im not Romani by the way hungarian but i was often told that i cannot be my mothers child because my skin is very light while my mom is a more bronze color and that always hurt (also there is a chance i habe some Romani in me because hungarians are known to mix with everyone all over).
Why does Esmeralda only have to do Romani dances, can she not do any kind of dance she wants? I'm Irish but I don't only Irish dance whenever i do dance
I have just realized that the version of the hunchback of noterdam I grew up with is definitely not the one by disnay, or the original. Is it accurate to say I "grew up with it" at all when I just sort of knew the general story until I read a book for my English book report? The version I read was rewritten simplified to suit people who learn English as a second language, like I was, and it did not have any esmarlda, I did not even know this character is from the hunchback. How odd
This isn’t really related to the video, but I was wondering if the opera, *Carmen*, is good representation?
It’s French, and there was a lot of criticism when it released in 1875, but it’s now one of the most popular operas. Performances of the opera vary, so different performances might have better representation than others.
The Romani characters are used for comic relief, and Carmen fits the seductress trope, though there is more depth to her character
In the Book she isn't actually a romani. She was French and was kidnapped as a baby by a romani woman who was Quasimodos mother who switched them because he was deformed.
Wondering what your position is on Esmeralda Halloween costumes?
While research was fairly difficult in the mid 90s (internet wasn't what it is today, books were still prime source) Hollywood has proven time and time again to be too lazy and careless for accuracy.
One thing that Disney made clear in the movie is that the Romani at the beginning and during the introduction to Esmeralda’s character were travelers. They did not permanently live in Paris (versus Claupin, for example). With travel comes inspiration, which usually comes from experiencing someone else’s culture. It’s very possible that Esmeralda danced the Tarantella because she saw it performed during her travels and fell in love with the movements.
Another thing I wanted to point out in a different video was the theory of why Quasimodo looks so different. The prevalent theory is that he may have been a “changeling”, as in a baby left out in the woods to die by his birth family who probably assumed he wasn’t theirs due to his deformities. Considering how passionately his mother fought to save him from Frollo, it’s not a stretch to imagine she probably heard his cries while traveling and saved him.
In short: not everything has to be negative. Yes, I really do want to see more and better representation of Romani people! But also-please give people the benefit of the doubt. And never forget how much we humans love to travel 😅
Could you share the first video?
Could it be possible that the Tarantella was inspired Itself by Romani people who lives in Italy just like the Romani made Flamenco dancing in Spain
No because Tarantella and Tarantismo were born in Apulia, specifically in the province of Taranto, and it's associated to the Tarantula spider which is common in that region
Tarantismo was a fenomenon, mostly common amongst women, where People who believed they had been bitten by a Tarantula, would have to dance frantically, until exhaustion, to expel the poison out of their body. Nowadays we know that most Tarantula aren't actually dangerous to humans, and the fenomenon might have been cause by another spider species, or it was a way for people to free themselves of negative emotions/physical pains, cause by depression, neurological issues and other health issues
I am ready to watch romani animators!
Do you think there’s any way to salvage The Hunchback of Notre Dame story? It’d be interesting to see a rewrite that was culturally accurate. But the story is so full of problematic tropes that I wonder if it’s possible.
Yes, definitely but Romani people need to be in the room every step of the process, and not just one person
Even though she's not accurate and possi le offensive to some.... growing up not knowing anything about the Romani ppl I always was fond of her because her character was not only beautiful but smart and kind despite the crap thrown at her from the French society around her. And she did help shape my idea of the Romani ppl at the time. But now theres a andw version coming iut maybe she will be rendered more appropriately than before..
I’m really tired of people relying on Disney and movies to represent them . Dude there is documentaries you can make .like Hollywood doesn’t owe you nothing. I wish people stop whining over everything it’s tiring
Me to I’m Kurdish and I’ve never seen any Kurd in a cartoon but we have documentaries about our culture and I don’t make my entire personality whining about it
@@ghostdagamero-o966 You see you can use common sense . Everyone now wants their movies , characters and all like no American production owe anyone anything. If someone wants to represent their culture or country they should make it themselves.
It was made roughly in the same era as Alladin. I think people just did crap research then. The architecture in Alladin is more a mix of Indian and Slavic styles, not Arab. I'm much older than you, and I can say, at that time, seeing a brown Disney Princess at all was major progress. Its great that we're now at a point when there's a push for accurate representation, rather than just representation at all, and the Internet has made it so easy to do proper research and connect with real people from other cultures. Back then, it could take a few minutes to load a Web page if too many people were using the Internet (which we got through our landline phones), and there was so little information out there on the "world wide web." Libraries had limited collections, and it could take weeks to have a book sent to your library. I think the animators were probably doing the best they could, and were certainly doing better than the previous generation. I hope you can use this platform to inspire better media representation raise, or even raise money to create your own Romani projects. I would donate for sure.
I like how you included the fact that she was dark skinned. Very rarely do we get a good representation or role models and its important to acknowledge that
Does anyone have a link to the first video because I want to see the full version of it.
You seem pretty cool
🖤🖤🖤
Disney needs to stop making live actions and race swapping characters [I have no problems with the race swapping I’m just mad they can’t be bothered to create new characters and story’s and instead cash in on nostalgia] and create some new things. Plus there’s no representation for neurodivergent people and barely any for people who don’t fit the gender norm. My hair won’t grow long enough to even put in a ponytail and it’s always been one of my insecurities so it would be great if they stopped with the boys have short hair and girls have long hair trend. I wish they had more neurodivergent characters [I only know of one character that was confirmed to be neurodivergent but they died 😭] but unfortunately they aren’t even making any new stories. Maybe in the future they’ll start creating amazing things again.