Do Older Lifters Need Less Training Volume? Do You Need More? Why Harder Isn't Always Better!

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  • Опубліковано 4 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 105

  • @MrDW-ei1fe
    @MrDW-ei1fe 2 роки тому +39

    Also wanted to say a big thank you to the barbell medicine crew for every piece of content both free and paid for. Rewind about 4-6 months ago and my untrained 66 year old dad has an A1C of 10 (type 2 diabetic), pain in his knee from arthritis, shoulder tendinitis, and could barely squat the bar to depth because of the above mentioned. Fast forward to today and his most recent squat e1rm is just under 225, he’s pulling 225 for multiple sets of 4@8, and benching 135. His A1C has fallen to 7 in this time span and his doctor is strongly considering pulling him off of his blood pressure medicine because he thinks he really doesn’t need it anymore. He also has greatly reduced (nearly non existent) pain in his knee, no shoulder issues, and has made training a strong habit. I don’t have to tell him to go train or hold his hand, he does it entirely independent of myself. I cannot thank you guys enough.

    • @freneticfanatic
      @freneticfanatic 2 роки тому +4

      Awesome story, man. Glad to think you'll have your dad for longer and a better version of him for that duration. Good on you for sharing this with him.

    • @RishabhSharma10225
      @RishabhSharma10225 2 роки тому

      Cap. Your 66 year old dad got to 225lb squat in 6 months? Even 20 year olds don't make progress that quick. I took 1 year to get to 225lb squat at 19 years of age. Sure I didn't train specifically for strength but still your story looks sus.

    • @MrDW-ei1fe
      @MrDW-ei1fe 2 роки тому +3

      @@RishabhSharma10225 I’m sorry you feel that way but your training progression is not an indicator of how anyone else’s progression will go. To be perfectly honest, most people who train would say taking a year to hit 225 is pretty slow progress.

    • @Kaledrone
      @Kaledrone 2 роки тому +2

      @@RishabhSharma10225 Full offense intended, if it took you 1 WHOLE year to get to 225lbs squat then you are just EXTREMELY weak and I don't mean that lightly. The dude above me is right, most people who actually train would consider that very slow progression. There is nothing "sus" about the guy's dads story. You are the problem here, you either don't train properly and screw around or you have horrible genetics.

    • @anastheyousfi
      @anastheyousfi 2 роки тому

      Hey! I’m trying to get my dad (same age group, untrained) to start resistance training, what kind of content exactly or programs were useful in training your dad?

  • @MrTimbo17
    @MrTimbo17 10 місяців тому +5

    Started lifting in early 50's, that was 10 years ago. For first few years kept going for more intensity, pushing for higher weight and lifting to limit. Kept getting nagging injuries that either kept me in pain or prevented me from training. Changed to higher volume, full body and lower intensity by gauging how the weight felt or how I felt and always leaving a rep or two in reserve. When I start a set I don't usually know how many reps I will do, I go for a feel that signals me that's enough. I have maintained my strength and muscle without any single injury for about 7-8 years so it seems to work well for me and I don't think I will ever change it.

  • @jamesperez6785
    @jamesperez6785 2 роки тому +34

    this is the type of content that made me become a barbell medicine fan.
    i watched one of their older podcasts on programming a couple years ago (with the similar message of harder is not better) and it just made complete sense why i felt so run down all the time and why i wasn't making any progress (not to mention the frequent overuse injuries). thank god for barbell medicine!

  • @Iconic3509
    @Iconic3509 Рік тому +9

    Hey guys , thanks for putting this together for us listeners . My only contention is that older people will not recuperate in the same time frame as younger ones . This is why the opposing view says less volume as you age .
    If I (49) attempt to do what I did in my 20’s , it takes about 3 days longer to recover than back then . For many reasons , the body cannot repair itself like it did before .
    Never been a volume trainer but whenever I decide to follow some of these training programs , the result is looking flat , weaker performances in the gym , feeling fatigued and sore and all desire for self improvement disappears .
    I personally can only do 1-2 all out sets with 2 different exercises (after warmups ) , 1-2 times a week !
    Maybe the fact that I’m in construction as a profession has something to do with it . All I know is that I’ve been training since 15 years old and I only grow muscle when workouts are short instead of useless junk sets that offer no stimulation .
    I think this age old argument has everything to do with peoples innate recuperative abilities which may be determined by genetics .
    Thats just my 2 cents . Take care !

  • @TheCarterHomeGym
    @TheCarterHomeGym 2 роки тому +46

    I've noticed I can handle more volume by leaving a couple reps in the tank on sets and I feel much better overall. It can be difficult to overcome the mindset of taking every set to failure though. Sometimes it feels like I'm not pushing hard enough. But it's great to not hurt all the time lol.

    • @JJvideoman
      @JJvideoman 2 роки тому +6

      Bro this was my lived experience too

    • @Worlds.Strongest.Mauro10
      @Worlds.Strongest.Mauro10 2 роки тому +1

      Same

    • @TheCarterHomeGym
      @TheCarterHomeGym 2 роки тому +1

      @Andre Leite da Silva Totally agree! It really would have cut down on my injuries and helped my overall progress over the years.

    • @TheCarterHomeGym
      @TheCarterHomeGym 2 роки тому +1

      @Andre Leite da Silva yeah, it's hard to explain RIR or RPE to someone who's never truly taken sets to failure before. Training to failure definitely has it's place, especially for newer lifters.

    • @robertlevy4613
      @robertlevy4613 2 роки тому +1

      100% agree with this

  • @matthewpaul5408
    @matthewpaul5408 2 роки тому +21

    Thank you, 52 years old and suffering from the exact symptoms Dr. Baraki described while doing "seniors Texas" style programming. Always tired, sore, bad sleep, no progression, developed into depression because I thought it was just me (had other stuff going on as well but this was definitely a contributing factor (PTSD)), didn't look forward to training anymore, was just doing because I "had" to and was failing. You guys rock, thanks for all you are trying to do in a pretty dirty business.

    • @grimtrigg3r
      @grimtrigg3r 2 роки тому +4

      52 here as well. Luckily got fed up with SS before I hit Texas method. Been doing BBM templates for 3 years now with great success. Keep on pushing friend!

    • @Shannon_Robbie
      @Shannon_Robbie 2 роки тому

      @@grimtrigg3r I tried the BB Med program/template for back pain but didn't make much progress. I seem to do well with LP (linear progression) programs to a point but eventually I stall out and can't increase the weight. I'm still learning how to use the RPE style lifting that BB Med recommends so maybe 3 months wasn't enough to see progress. Not sure but I found it frustrating!

  • @aspen9120
    @aspen9120 2 роки тому +9

    Thanks for this. I grew up following Joe Weider and Arthur Jones and his training of Casey Viator. Weider principles were all about going way past failure and Jones would have people do what he called 1 set (which was usually three or four exercises squished together) to positive, negative, static and lowering failure.
    I've always said that I have terrible recovery ability, but that's probably not so. Coming back into the gym after over a year off (54 yrs old) I did one set of 5 exercises and I was down for over a week because I went to failure (RPE 10). Before watching this I'd already started to cut way back on intensity and now do five circuits three days a week with very little fatigue. So more workouts, longer workouts, energy for some easy cardio 5-6 days a week, better sleep, better mood and my appetite doesn't go through the roof.
    This also reminded me of my younger days watching competitive bodybuilders in the gym and being baffled by them. They were twice my size, but did half the weights I did. I was dying, forced reps, drop sets, whatever I could do to increase intensity, while they stopped each set before they started straining at all. I should have learned then, but I just thought they had great genetics and I had crap ones. Maybe not.

  • @gregorycocco9043
    @gregorycocco9043 2 роки тому +20

    Every session! PR or ER!

  • @PaulRutherford
    @PaulRutherford Рік тому +6

    Hi Guys.... I'm a 5ft 6 53-year-old NATTY Powerlifter.
    Training since I was 17yrs old. My Best lifts are 462lbs- 320lbs -485lbs single ply @148lbs I know these aren't very impressive numbers , but I enjoy competing with myself. The more time passes the more I realise that this is NOT an exact science ! There are so many ascending and descending factors that Influence my performance..
    I can only tell you what is currently working for me. As recovery and inflammation are always an issue for me, I do the following ...... Sunday - Deadlift (rep range 1-5) ...ONLY bi Weekly! Alternating with a light varied Back & bicep workout in the weeks in between. Tuesday - Heavy Bench press (rep range 1-5) Thursday- Heavyish' squats (rep range 1-5) & Light Bench press 3 sets 10 reps...VERY LIGHT ! 30- 40 kg (just to keep the bench groove greased) The only thing that really changes is that if I get any grief from squats , I will dial it back for a week and of super light (EG: 20-40kg super strict for 3 x 5reps)
    What I have learned , is DON'T feel you have to stick to the program exactly - to listen to your body & don't be too proud to switch to the occasional light easy workout , If your CNS tells you to
    Good luck ...... Remember some times Less IS More!

  • @dinavanwyk30
    @dinavanwyk30 2 роки тому +6

    I am 52... and not old...and not fragile... I have been lifting for 3 years and feeling fantastic!!

  • @Aboveaveragemaster
    @Aboveaveragemaster 2 роки тому +9

    This 69 yr old agrees… not fragile! Good content! Thx

  • @jayrezvani3821
    @jayrezvani3821 2 роки тому +10

    3:58 "...I had to put the right song on, I had to hyperventilate..." I feel personally attacked here.

  • @karinbowen9966
    @karinbowen9966 2 роки тому +4

    Love this!!! Im 62, have been following the Baraki approach and making significant strength gains .So very grateful to Barbell Medicine and all I have learnt from them!!!!

  • @scottyboybc
    @scottyboybc 3 місяці тому +1

    I needed to hear this, thank you!

  • @bencee5547
    @bencee5547 2 роки тому +7

    AAAAAA that post mortem joke was soo deep... Loved it!

  • @bmbb1234
    @bmbb1234 Рік тому +2

    Pavel Tsatsouline talks about this on Joe Rogan. The Russians routinely did sets of say 3 with a weight they could go to failure with at say 5 to 8 reps.

  • @miketracy9256
    @miketracy9256 10 місяців тому +1

    We all respond differently, but at age 77, it seems that 3 to 5 hard sets after warmups seems to work better than one max one for me.
    Intensity is inversely proportional to duration.
    Higher reps from 15 to 20, also seem to work better for us older folks.

  • @X-rayAnon
    @X-rayAnon 2 роки тому +5

    When is the app coming to Android?

  • @miketalich4454
    @miketalich4454 2 роки тому +7

    Yes just turned 61, early in the year I was making great gains by leaving reps in tank, lots of consistency and volume. Like always I got PR greedy, started overshooting RPE, ended up doing back and shoulder rehab but coming back. Not unlike decades earlier aside from my total lack of knowledge back then. Make better gains generally now than then because of what I learned from BBM, Alan Thrall

    • @keith606
      @keith606 Рік тому

      How many sets her body part, per week are you doing? I’m 61 as well and have always been high intensity, going to failure and beyond, but not much to show for it. High volume, higher frequency, with reps in reserve is intriguing.

  • @ianpier16
    @ianpier16 2 роки тому +6

    We need more content from Jordan and Austin. Or maybe just audio of commonly said phrases that we can play on repeat

    • @neilpollack3514
      @neilpollack3514 2 роки тому +4

      But, in this episode, Austin was the one who really brought the passion. He was great.

    • @ianpier16
      @ianpier16 2 роки тому +2

      @@neilpollack3514 yeah that's true. I was outdoors typing but we can use more content from both of them

    • @Shannon_Robbie
      @Shannon_Robbie 2 роки тому +2

      @@neilpollack3514 Jordan did seem rather frustrated or something. This may be common knowledge to them but it's not to most people. When I was a Powerlifter people are always criticizing me for not lifting heavier all the time. My gut instinct was to only lift heavy once in a while but I was literally teased for "wimping out".

    • @Kaledrone
      @Kaledrone 2 роки тому +1

      They actually do the "just audio of commonly said phrases we can play on repeat" part on their Instagram. They cut out an important phrase from a video, caption it to explain it further in detail and then post it on their insta.

  • @turkmusik
    @turkmusik Рік тому

    So far I agree. I used to be able to benefit from one warm-up and then a very intense set. Now I need multiple sets. As in eight or more for the same muscle group. However, I don't train to failure.

  • @Dlowr7
    @Dlowr7 2 роки тому +1

    Ah a dampened oscilations synodal wave for the thumbnail. Thanks for kicking in my PTSD from summer physics

  • @michaelfortunato1860
    @michaelfortunato1860 2 місяці тому

    I'm 71 and put in three pretty hard lifting sessions a week, plus another couple of intervals on an assault bike. But my own and coaching experience corroborate your idea that if you go to failure and competitive lift ranges often, and older athlete will have to have longer rest breaks to be able to move those weights. At 71, I can no longer hit what I want on the platform three times a week. Once a week for super intensity with two sessions of technique and volume seem to work best for me.

  • @sunnygirl9691
    @sunnygirl9691 2 роки тому +2

    Yikes - so I was thinking about looking into Starting Strength certification but a lot of your stuff has been diving into new perspectives. So which direction do I go? Who is keeping up with the data?

    • @martinmorgan7808
      @martinmorgan7808 2 роки тому +2

      Barbell Medicine is far more data based than SS. Their programming also produces superior results. Your call.

  • @tiffandtimcostello3260
    @tiffandtimcostello3260 2 роки тому +8

    Does this imply the Bridge program is obsolete? I find many sets @ RPE 8,9 frequently used and it is really HARD!

    • @craigw7471
      @craigw7471 2 роки тому +1

      I was thinking the same thing. The RPE 9s in their programming made me get to the point of anxiety attacks about working out. I am still trying to get my mind right.

    • @theavglifter
      @theavglifter 2 роки тому +1

      I don't think they would say that. You have to do work in the higher RPE ranges to be able to develop the skill to lift maximal weights.

  • @ResistanceQuest
    @ResistanceQuest 2 роки тому +1

    Great point and presentation. Someone else mentioned this is the kind of content that they subscribe for, and I will echo that sentiment

  • @paratethys
    @paratethys 2 роки тому +1

    Phase 2 of the Barbell Medicine Beginner Template has sets at RPE9 programmed for every exercise, every workout. Is this still the recommendation, considering what you've been saying lately on the channel about RPE9 not really adding much value?

  • @cemonkey1
    @cemonkey1 Рік тому +1

    Would enjoy seeing a debate vs Mark Rippetoe.

  • @jokecukie
    @jokecukie 2 роки тому +3

    Then why do BBM templates routinely program sets @9? I found them to be too hard to recover from at times. It was really my only problem with the templates.

    • @PhiyackYuh
      @PhiyackYuh 2 роки тому +1

      Then find a load where you can recover from. You need to listen to your body. If you go max effort at old age where recovery is much slower, do you think you can go hard again the next day? Play the long game. If your goal is to maintain, build or hold on to what you’ve got then you don’t need to train like a pro. Everyone adapts differently. Stimulate not annihilate.

    • @jokecukie
      @jokecukie 2 роки тому

      @@PhiyackYuh Which is why I was wondering about the frequency of the @9 sets.

    • @blubbermammoth8426
      @blubbermammoth8426 2 роки тому

      Something I wondered too. I’m on powerlifting 2 and it’s very very hard but I have been seeing good results so far.
      The RPE 9’s are abundant in it

  • @RishabhSharma10225
    @RishabhSharma10225 2 роки тому +2

    Great video. Just a suggestion, the music at the intro and outro is too loud. Compared to the rest of the video.

  • @feruspriest
    @feruspriest 2 роки тому +2

    when are we getting that nutrition book?

  • @TableTopForging
    @TableTopForging 2 роки тому

    That remind of the good old pr block/rehab block periodisation model

  • @grizzlymanverneteil4443
    @grizzlymanverneteil4443 2 роки тому +1

    Would a decrease in rpe also be beneficial to someone with limited recovery do to life style? For instance I work 70 to 80 hours a week doing manual labor like pick axing trenches all day and hand mixing 60 to 80 bags of 80 lb bags of concrete. Would I be better served in that roe 5 to 6 range?

    • @Worlds.Strongest.Mauro10
      @Worlds.Strongest.Mauro10 2 роки тому +1

      Personally, just stick to the RPE. 5@8 will always be 5@8, regardless of weight on the bar, or if you poured handled rafters all day, or dug trenches all day. This is coming from someone that was a framer for 4years & still trained. I WAS IN MY EARLY 20s, but this still applies

  • @fr0g.the.french
    @fr0g.the.french 2 роки тому

    💪🐸👍 yap i've spondylarthrosis so always afraid about injuries. Is the brain always working bad with that ? if yes for how many pple 70 or 80%.
    i was on humia 1 short each 2 weeks, my Bones and muscles are doing okay but whats about the brain injury ? in the future with no Bad médication, i saw glutamine working well for gut, so good point

  • @waltersobchak6546
    @waltersobchak6546 2 роки тому

    Thank you gentlemen.

  • @BillLinAZ
    @BillLinAZ 2 роки тому +4

    I'm 60 and I lift heavy 4 days per week. I have a coach who wrote a great program for me and I am getting stronger using it.

    • @MrTimdeK
      @MrTimdeK 2 роки тому +1

      Good stuff Bill, I'm 30 and hope to do the same when I'm 60

    • @BillLinAZ
      @BillLinAZ 2 роки тому +5

      @@MrTimdeK I have no doubt you will still be at it at 60. The disturbing part is I will likely no longer be on this planet by then, but if I am, I hope I am still lifting.

    • @keith606
      @keith606 Рік тому

      How many sets her body part, per week are you doing? I’m 61 and have always been a high intensity guy, going to failure and beyond, but not much to show for it.

  • @foxdogs1st
    @foxdogs1st 10 місяців тому

    Based on your comments, is volume the only driver of strength and hypertrophy? What if i don't want to do high volume training. Wouldn't doing less sets with max effort be better then ? Aka intensity driving growth over volume.

  • @devos3212
    @devos3212 2 роки тому +1

    Older people tend to want to rest less too. If able to stay far from failure, and only resting 30 sec or so, ya I think sets per session can be a lot higher. Thats probably going to be a lot easier on older clients with a lot of joint and tendon issues. I’ve ramped up some of my older clients to 15-20 sets per body part per week.

  • @charlrichardengelbrecht5269

    Let's say someone is 64 years old and has moderate hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, but no ischemic heart disease. What should he do?

  • @BobMan1952
    @BobMan1952 3 місяці тому +1

    Two relatively young guys telling old guys that they need more volume
    They will find out

  • @randybowman
    @randybowman 2 роки тому

    Now my question then is if I do maximally hard sets then do i get away with doing less stuff?

  • @danieloconnell2978
    @danieloconnell2978 2 роки тому +5

    Am I actually first?

  • @zeljko4189
    @zeljko4189 2 роки тому

    My brain can't handle this🤯

  • @gokukakarot1855
    @gokukakarot1855 2 роки тому +3

    For the algorithm

  • @MarcusB-v1u
    @MarcusB-v1u Місяць тому

    Basically the higher your RPE rating per set the less volume you will be able to endure per exercise!

  • @robertlevy4613
    @robertlevy4613 2 роки тому +1

    Comment for the algorithm.

  • @azulsimmons1040
    @azulsimmons1040 2 роки тому +1

    Dr. Baraki, thanks for pointing out my mistake with the obesity medications. The current medications are highly efficacious with a low side effect profile. Semaglutide and tirzepatide are the best I've ever seen. I see why I missed them now. They are produced by mega pharma and I usually focus on small to mid cap with more upside on the stock. These are the best obesity drugs I've ever seen on the market with a 15 to 20 percent reduction in weight with a very tolerable side effect profile. This should be a big step in the right direction for helping people control obesity.

  • @dogwiz
    @dogwiz 2 роки тому

    Wrapping it up with the dead grandma, absolutely brutal.

  • @sarenakopcie9457
    @sarenakopcie9457 2 роки тому +1

    Holà! Here’s a diff grandma

  • @crossfunctionalfitness
    @crossfunctionalfitness Рік тому

    The biggest problem with RPE is that it isn't data. It isn't objective. It's based on your feelings. It's based on your perception of what "hard" is and that's not very reliable.

    • @BarbellMedicine
      @BarbellMedicine  Рік тому +1

      There are plenty of subjective values in numerous settings that qualify as data and RPE would be one of them. The existing research shows that not only is it reliable, it is more important than a number of objective factors for training stress, such as relative intensity. You don't have to use it if you don't like to, but it is always there and has been validated at all levels of training.

  • @johns783
    @johns783 2 роки тому

    isn't this literally the opposite of what barbell medicine espouses? I haven't read the book but literally every video I've seen on masters lifters from this perspective has been on the "lift heavy to get strong" aspect and not "do high volume at RPE 6" side of the coin. Perhaps I've misunderstood what the videos have been saying, but I was certainly under the impression that high intensity but lower volume for adequate recovery is absolutely what the Barbell Medicine type of programming is all about.

    • @tavisrees3859
      @tavisrees3859 Рік тому

      That's what I've seen on the videos from rip on older lifters aswell.

  • @josephhayes1591
    @josephhayes1591 Рік тому

    I guess he left Rippetoe's idealogy

  • @sunnygirl9691
    @sunnygirl9691 2 роки тому

    7:32 Aside from bad training what about the entire lifestyle? Nutrition, stress levels, sleep, emotional health.. Body would respond by shutting down reproduction hormones, no?

  • @moeazam6358
    @moeazam6358 2 роки тому

    Would an older trainee's form breakdown faster by the end of a 10 rep set than it would a younger trainee ?

  • @johnbackos5192
    @johnbackos5192 Рік тому

    Russians have been training this way for ages. We in the US have a bust your ass mentality.

  • @dc100dc100
    @dc100dc100 2 роки тому +5

    The older you get, the more you benefit from training 7 days a week. It may be light, it may be recovery, but there should be resistance training or cardio 7 days a week. Not PRs or HIIT every day, but breaking a sweat, rising heart rate every day. See book “younger next year” for the science.

    • @mmcconville4346
      @mmcconville4346 2 роки тому +2

      Nope

    • @fr0g.the.french
      @fr0g.the.french 2 роки тому +2

      yap its make sens, Always good to walk a little so i do the same even its just biceps triceps . The sign is sleeping i think . If Bad sleep so nope better to do nothing maybe for nervous system

  • @zsahe21
    @zsahe21 Рік тому

    !!!!

  • @stefang.291
    @stefang.291 9 місяців тому

    Support Comment

  • @matthewstevens2700
    @matthewstevens2700 Рік тому +4

    My advice is wait until you yourself are old before offering such advice. Why are those who purport to give advice to older lifters invariably themselves young?

    • @Roper122
      @Roper122 5 місяців тому

      Sooo...you only listen to Doctors who are the same age as you are?
      Interesting approach...

  • @drnakayama
    @drnakayama Рік тому

    they do not know anything. study starting strength

  • @hussainnabi1232
    @hussainnabi1232 2 роки тому +4

    I disagree with this 2 men talking without real life experence im 60 year old been training for years tryed it all high volume low volume ect but as ive aged less volume high intensity heavey work mike mentzer style im certainly not fragile just benched 140 for ten reps can deadlift 500 but intensity is key not volume for me now im bigger and stronger than most in my gym peaple who do tons of volume but intensity not there there small and weak they train chest fòr 1 hour i train chest for 15 minutes and bigger and stronger cuss of intensity u can can do loads of volume and make no progress if intensity is not there its not how much u do but how hard u do what u do in my years of experence

  • @jabberwock14
    @jabberwock14 2 роки тому +4

    Jordan be looking old

    • @camaitken1619
      @camaitken1619 2 роки тому +6

      I don’t normally comment buttt I was thinking the exact opposite. Jordan’s looking good.