Here be Dragons - Mythillogical Podcast

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  • Опубліковано 30 жов 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 543

  • @aidanmagill6769
    @aidanmagill6769 4 роки тому +671

    "we're not experts"
    Here hang on a minute, does that mean there IS such a thing as a dragon expert?
    Why wasn't I told that was a potential career path at school?

    • @blubonnet4126
      @blubonnet4126 4 роки тому +23

      #Truth

    • @richardputz3233
      @richardputz3233 4 роки тому +46

      It’s very expensive ! The dissections alone can almost kill you .Don’t be cheap when spending on your school uniform ,it’s most important to get flame proof rather than flame resistant .

    • @joannaoconnor9418
      @joannaoconnor9418 4 роки тому +13

      You clearly haven’t seen Harry Potter then 😝

    • @oldmanfromscenetwentyfour8164
      @oldmanfromscenetwentyfour8164 4 роки тому +24

      Most school Guidance Counselors are unaware of the option. You can always enroll now.

    • @lcmiracle
      @lcmiracle 4 роки тому +18

      I myself have the right to grant a B.S. degree of Dragonology, apply on my website for just $200,000 per semester. BTW the degree is only useful for applying for the study of a doctorate, which I, too, happen to offer for just $1,000,000 for a 3-semester course, all fully online!

  • @PassionPossum
    @PassionPossum 4 роки тому +18

    This came right at the right time for me. I've been recently studying dragons myself, focusing more on the Sumerian and Greek tales of Dragons. Thank you so much for this wonderful, rich dialogue!

  • @alexandruianu8432
    @alexandruianu8432 4 роки тому +80

    31:30 - Not unusual at all, since Seth was not a villain. He was a god of storms, the desert, and violence, but like all gods in the Egyptian pantheon, they all supposed to fundamentally uphold Ma'at in someway. The feud between Seth and Heru (Horus) is even resolved eventually in the myths. Seth was only vilified after the New Kingdom because of his association with invading foreigners, but even then, in some parts, there were cults were he was a hero god. Later on, Greek mystery cults and Zoroastrian influence completed the association with Apep (which was a primordial force, rather than a specifically a god, in opposition to Ma'at). Apep is rather interesting, since it might be the inspiration for equating the serpent in the garden with Lucifer.
    1:23:00 - Interestingly, the dragon of Romanian mythology (Balaur - IPA [ba'la.ur]) is effectively a Hydra, given a different origin story as a magically mutated snake (many variations, some including a magic trinket or crystal), where a very mundane snake (like the common viper) withdraws to its lair and magically metamorphoses into a Balaur.

    • @brunopereira6789
      @brunopereira6789 2 роки тому +5

      I'm not sure if Apep directly inspired the serpent in Genesis being the Devil - I think it's more likely to be a general meme of equating serpents/dragons with primordial evil and chaos. In this way, Apep, Typhon, Tiamat, Echidna, Leviathan, Jormungandr and the Genesis serpent all share a prehistoric concept.

    • @alexandruianu8432
      @alexandruianu8432 2 роки тому +5

      @@brunopereira6789 Oh, sure, the basic association is ancient but I was referring to the specific association between the snake in Eden (a throwaway character originally), and Satan (The Adversary, another throwaway character in Job). They got mixed into later developments in Judaism, possibly under Kemetic influence.

    • @brunopereira6789
      @brunopereira6789 2 роки тому +1

      @@alexandruianu8432 what does 'kemetic' refer to?

    • @alexandruianu8432
      @alexandruianu8432 2 роки тому +1

      @@brunopereira6789 Kemet (km.t) = Ancient Egypt.

    • @brunopereira6789
      @brunopereira6789 2 роки тому +1

      @@alexandruianu8432 ah yes, lol, I should've caught that

  • @DogFoxHybrid
    @DogFoxHybrid 2 роки тому +10

    45:00 I'm not surprised that My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic is mentioned in regard to the Chaoskampf because it hits the idea pretty squarely on the nose in the second season with the main characters facing off against Discord, who is described as a Draconequs but combines multiple animal parts and has the general shape of a dragon. Discord is the embodiment of chaos, but rather than an animalistic and destructive entity, he is a trickster god that takes great pleasure in playing with the protagonists. Also, of note, is that when he is defeated, he eventually becomes a friend and ally to the main characters.

  • @TheHistocrat
    @TheHistocrat  4 роки тому +48

    We had a bit of a problem with an echo on one of the mics, I've attempted to edit around this as best I could. Rest assured this will be fixed in any future episodes.

    • @treering8228
      @treering8228 4 роки тому +1

      Brother Jake's Reconnaissance it’s a play on words obviously

    • @bardmadsen6956
      @bardmadsen6956 4 роки тому

      Dragons are from the sky and space which is visible universally as comets and bolides. Yesterday I was looking up feathered dinosaurs and avialae as a search term brings up 80% what use to be underground comic smut. I would suggest reading my book, follow the avatar. The UK still can not move around? I have been waiting for more Sir James George Frazer from the UK, wonder if it is still there. The ancients used words of water, sea, pond, ocean,etc. for the heavens. The sea monsters are not in the terrestrial water. The seven heads represent the Pleiades wherein the destruction emanated from to blot out the Sun, such as Apollo and Typhon. Seems Wikipedia has it half right Apollo is allude to as the Sun yet Typhon, I don't know...

  • @YBnormal1337
    @YBnormal1337 3 роки тому +6

    I'm just gonna make this abundantly clear. I haven't even finished the Druid video. I'm starting this video. The music alone and the length of the video had me immediately scrolling down to sub. I love this channel. Thank you for existing, I hope you grow exponentially.

  • @strider04
    @strider04 4 роки тому +92

    All of Tolkien's qoutes about dragons are great.

    • @realmcgoy1353
      @realmcgoy1353 4 роки тому +6

      I never hear these from Tolkien.. hmm, mabe u list some of best ones for the plebs can enjoy..? :)

    • @karamlevi
      @karamlevi 4 роки тому

      Real McGoy seriously yes 😎🍻👌

    • @Hadoken.
      @Hadoken. Рік тому

      Tolkien sucks man. And is also a hack. But then again what else could one expect from a imperialist Brit nostalgic of 18th century Tory Teagardens?

  • @alicelongtin1629
    @alicelongtin1629 4 роки тому +12

    ABSOLUTELY LOVED THIS. thank you so much, I'm so excited to see where this podcast goes

  • @theJellyjoker
    @theJellyjoker 4 роки тому +346

    I live in a land of Dragons, we call them gators down here.

    • @Beansareamagicalfruit
      @Beansareamagicalfruit 4 роки тому +13

      Louisiana myself, many dragons to be CHOOTEM'd lol

    • @bigredwolf6
      @bigredwolf6 4 роки тому +13

      We turn dragons into chili

    • @janeck.8695
      @janeck.8695 4 роки тому +5

      From mythology to fairy tales, I remember that dragons required one virgin maiden per year for dinner. Hope you have ample supply. Of maidens, not dragons.

    • @slapandtickle4531
      @slapandtickle4531 4 роки тому +4

      I know what you mean; Floridian here. 😅

    • @BarbaraRademacher
      @BarbaraRademacher 3 роки тому +3

      @@janeck.8695 Virgins are much harder to find these days.

  • @kj6bbs
    @kj6bbs 4 роки тому +84

    I could totally imagine an opportunistic traveling knight stumbling upon a dinosaur fossil/bones, and claiming it as if it was his kill.

    • @andybeans5790
      @andybeans5790 4 роки тому +5

      Fossils tend to be inside rocks though

    • @notinspectorgadget
      @notinspectorgadget 3 роки тому +2

      @@andybeans5790 and ya know. they're *DEEP* underground.

    • @HoveringAboveMyself
      @HoveringAboveMyself 3 роки тому +14

      @@notinspectorgadget Not really, most fossils are only found because they are partially exposed in the surface in some way. However, identifying dinosaur fossils as former bones is hard for non-experts today let alone Pre-scientific people, there's plenty of examples of how bad they were at identifiying relatively recent stuff that still looks like bone.

    • @kibnob
      @kibnob 3 роки тому

      @@HoveringAboveMyself link to examples? Interested

    • @enriquehartmann8642
      @enriquehartmann8642 2 роки тому +2

      Hell yeah I'd do it.
      Especially if I found the fossil in some crazy way. For example an earth quake moving the dirt and revealing a dino fossil.
      Then I would be like:
      " You know that racket that shook the ground? It was the dragon I fought and slayed. See (me holding up the biggest bone i could find and tie to my horse) here's a leg bone ! "

  • @piratewhoisquiet
    @piratewhoisquiet 4 роки тому +7

    I found out about your channel by being recommended your video on the Druids, and am now really sad that part two isn't up yet. This will certainly do in the meantime. Keep up the great work!

  • @atillathehungry3145
    @atillathehungry3145 4 роки тому +18

    What shall we do tonight Apep? Same thing we do every night Pinky, try to kill Ra. Its Pinky and the Apep, Apep , Apep.

  • @Checobeep
    @Checobeep 4 роки тому +55

    Great talk. One thing you seem to have gotten hung up on is the seeming impossibility of the dragon stories, or those with shared motifs, such as the consumption and rescue of the solar character from the belly of the beast, usurper kings threatened by the true heir/true king etc, being directly transmitted by cultural contact due to the physical barriers of distance and location between these peoples. Maybe the solution is that these stories are based on foundations far, far earlier than even ancient antiquity, perhaps in mythology dating from before the Japanese Paleolithic,, that is, the colonisation of what is now Japan. This would indicate these themes are very ancient indeed. This might seem unlikely. However, given the longevity of myths among the Indigenous Australian peoples which apparently do record actual events such as sea level changes as much as 18,000 years ago, maybe not so unlikely. Naturally such ideas are controversial, but without resorting to speculative woo such as the collective unconscious or genetic memory, the hypothesis with least assumptions seems to be that these themes arise from a common shared cultural origin, perhaps among the early modern human groups as they began to spread into central Asia from North Africa. Worth thinking about? No idea. Cheers.

    • @thenotchosen
      @thenotchosen 4 роки тому +3

      We had giants in pre flood history so why not dragon's

    • @shiningbearable
      @shiningbearable 3 роки тому +2

      the earth is dragon carcasses

    • @shiningbearable
      @shiningbearable 3 роки тому +2

      and we are the maggots upon these rotting carcasses

    • @kibnob
      @kibnob 3 роки тому +6

      Dog guarding the underworld mytheme is present in native American legends, apparently some serious scholars think it might share a common origin with eg Cerberus. So not impossible but you'd need strong evidence to distinguish this from a convergent mythology evolving from essential human psychological traits

    • @cdogthehedgehog6923
      @cdogthehedgehog6923 2 роки тому

      You saying that the dragons retreated into the hollow earth with all their magic conveniently with zero physical trace of them at all? Makes sense to me

  • @Crossark1
    @Crossark1 3 роки тому +31

    The other entities in Chinese mythology aren’t dragons, with the exception of the Azure Dragon. There’s the Vermilion Bird, the White Tiger, and the Black Tortoise.

    • @ridleyroid9060
      @ridleyroid9060 2 роки тому +3

      Quing long is the azure dragon right? SMT has taught me something

  • @massivedamagegaming9004
    @massivedamagegaming9004 4 роки тому +12

    40:50
    Celtic languages ARE Indo-European languages. The only non Indo-European languages in europe are Magyar, Finnish, and Basque.

    • @hazenoki628
      @hazenoki628 4 роки тому +6

      There are a few more Uralic languages in Europe besides Magyar and Finnish, such as the Sámi languages and Estonian. There are also some Turkic languages (primarily in Russia and the European part of Turkey), Maltese (descended from Arabic and as such a Semitic language) and a few other assorted non-IE languages depending on where you consider Europe to end. If we're talking only majority languages of a country considered to be wholly in Europe it's just Finnish, Estonian, Magyar and Maltese I guess.

  • @enriquehartmann8642
    @enriquehartmann8642 3 роки тому +20

    My first exposure to dragons was from the cartoon, "Puff the Magic Dragon" lol .

    • @BIATEC88
      @BIATEC88 3 роки тому +2

      What thats a cartoon. Since when I know it's a song

    • @enriquehartmann8642
      @enriquehartmann8642 2 роки тому +1

      @@BIATEC88 oh man, i think early to mid 80's. It is cartoon-movie.

    • @BIATEC88
      @BIATEC88 2 роки тому

      @@enriquehartmann8642 🤔 have you seen flight of dragons. If not and you like fantasy check it out. It is a book but also a cartoon from around the same time. It's got some good ideas in it making it more than a simple child's cartoon.

    • @helendunn9905
      @helendunn9905 6 місяців тому +1

      No harm in a little Puff 😂😂😂

  • @swahamchakraborty7990
    @swahamchakraborty7990 4 роки тому +5

    The connection between the Greeks and Phoenicians is that the Greek alphabet originated from the Phoenician writing system after the Greeks came out of their Dark Age.( Before the Bronze Age Collapse the Myceneans used the Linear B script, but they are seen as pre-Greeks to the Indo-European Greeks, though the ancient Hellenic Greeks presented their civilization as the successor and descendant of the Mycenean civilization.)

  • @OffRampTourist
    @OffRampTourist Рік тому +4

    My first dragon was from the front cover of the 1st book I ever chose for myself. It was full of beautiful illustrations including 2 dragons pulling the conveyance of the powerful magical godmother who softened Sleeping Beauty's curse.
    The 2nd dragon was the jewelled animated version from a George Pal film.
    So to me they are first and foremost creatures of great beauty.

  • @pmcg534
    @pmcg534 4 роки тому +1

    Thank you for not putting ads in the middle

  • @LilliamSlasher
    @LilliamSlasher 2 роки тому +3

    i dont know why you found the my little pony reference so outlanfish. in that cartoon there was a trickster god/dragon character who personified chaos. so it does make sense. pop culture is today's mythology.
    the myth of the chaos serpent/dragon vs the warrior sky god just mirrors the passage from a hunter/gatherer society to an agricultural one. the hunter/gatherer religion was centered around a goddess of fertility/death associated to the figure of the snake (symbol of life-death cycle). later with human society turning agricultural, the figure of the warrior (needed to protect the land from invaders) became so important that the father of the sky-warrior god was created. because the old earth goddess/chaos snake wasn't worshipped anymore, she became the enemy of the sky warrior god.

  • @WetWillis
    @WetWillis 4 роки тому +65

    "y-yeah that's my assumption just from looking at the title...that it teaches good values for children" *cough* *adjusts collar*

    • @MuscarV2
      @MuscarV2 3 роки тому +6

      @@Archangelm127 And anyone that has anything against anyone being a nerd needs to chill too. It's not the 1970s anymore, and it was never a cool way to think anyway. Many people just don't have the mental capacity for even basic hobbies and can't accept that they're dumb so they bully the people that have real interests and are able to understand and learn things.

    • @NinjaCatGreen
      @NinjaCatGreen 3 роки тому +5

      True, but with that mindset, you can't blame someone for being a little off-put by an adult male writing a doctorate thesis that uses a children's show as a major reference.

    • @DepressedDiego
      @DepressedDiego 3 роки тому +7

      It's less about being a nerd and more about being a brony.

  • @TheEbrithil2
    @TheEbrithil2 Рік тому +3

    Humans transforming into dragons is a very common occurence in Germanic mythology, especially Icelandic sagas.
    Also if you want West African Chaoskampf adjacent myths, I think the Bayajidda myth and the Dausi epic are a bit of a fit. No thunder god, but definitely a dragon guarding the water.

  • @kidohchi
    @kidohchi 2 роки тому

    I originally watched this before you had pictures. Now re-watching.., much, much better

  • @RobinHood-tw4se
    @RobinHood-tw4se 4 роки тому +2

    The Proto-Indo-Europeans did migrate into the east, as far as modern China. The Afanasievo culture
    is an example of this and possibly the earliest example (dating around 3300 BCE - 2500 BCE). Many archaeologists believe that these people or a related-group brought metal weaponry and the chariot from the West into China. So, this could explain any dragon-relations. Great video by the way!

  • @mistymessages
    @mistymessages 2 роки тому +7

    I was 30 years old. I had went into a vision after a traumatic event. In my vision I went to a therapist to remove stress. I read some ancient scroll. It was in an unknown language. As I read it though it came through as my native language. As I reached the last sentence myself and the therapist dropped into the ocean. We landed in a white row boat after dark in moon light.
    Startled I asked the therapist, “where are we?” She replies, “I don’t know, you brought us here!” In that moment a Deep Masculine Voice that move the blood in my veins spoke, “You’re not welcome here!” And the therapist was gone!! I was scared I turned looking for the voice and huge dragon head came out of the water….. No more words spoken. As the dragon moved the ocean and my row boat moved with him. We came to land, everything burning people screaming. I had a choice to run away or follow the dragon. I was mad at the dragon. I blamed him in my head for the destruction.
    As I followed him we came to a tree. He turned himself into a snake 🐍. We dropped into the tree slowly drifting down into the glowing golden roots.
    Here I began to battle him at first. Out of nowhere I knew he was not to blame the world was in chaos created by fear of man’s mind. He spoke as I was having the realization, “ Stop fighting me, I am you, you are me, we are one!” I felt so much love and compassion come over me. I immediately stopped battling the dragon. And approached him in the highest love ❤️ compassion. I climbed into him. Became one and come out of hypnosis.

    • @Waterislifelife
      @Waterislifelife 2 роки тому +3

      I can relate to this almost 100. Thank you for sharing. Made a big difference to my world. And beautifully written by the way

  • @steveholton4130
    @steveholton4130 4 роки тому +25

    OK, boys, my very first encounter with a dragon was in 1963 when I was 15 and Peter, Paul and Mary gave birth to "Puff the Magic Dragon". Don't WE ALL Know that a dragon is simply A Dinosaur that is Suffering from GERD (GastroEsophogeal Reflux Disease) and ignites the expelled gastric gases by looking at them cross-eyed. sdh in CT, USA

    • @achuliankei1240
      @achuliankei1240 4 роки тому +3

      Same here but about thirty five years after you when I was three or four thanks to my grandma.

    • @charsback
      @charsback 4 роки тому +3

      For Me it was the late Seventies...We used to smoke this stuff called blue dragon...

    • @BarbaraRademacher
      @BarbaraRademacher 3 роки тому

      And, perhaps, said dragons fly by igniting the gases from their behinds?

    • @BarbaraRademacher
      @BarbaraRademacher 3 роки тому

      I first heard "Puff, the Magic Dragon" when I was in my middle teens; I cried every time I heard (and hear) it. Forget the real meaning - I think the tale is a sad one.

  • @b0b0-
    @b0b0- 2 роки тому +5

    Tornadoes. It's that simple. If you've ever seen one in person you'd think serpent from the sky breathing smoke. Seems alive, it is incredible.

  • @yensid4294
    @yensid4294 4 роки тому +10

    One of the theories I heard was that a dragon was basically an amalgamation of all the predators that would have been most feared by our primate ancesters living out on the African savanah. Big cats, snakes, large carnivorous reptiles like crocodiles & large raptors were all a constant threat to a small ape. The other less "evo psyche" theory is that to many ancient peoples both snakes & birds became spiritual symbols. Snakes because they shed their skin & became associated with transformation & rebirth, birds because they soar in the sky & that is where the gods live. So, if you combine the two you get a very special symbol/animal. Both theories are interesting.
    The reason Dragons most likely are more "malevolant" in the west is probably because of their association to serpants & paganism. Once Christianity became the dominant religion in Europe, all things serpentine were considered Satanic. The myth of St. Patrick driving the snakes from Ireland was a euphemisn for converting the pagans. I assume the story of St.George killing the dragon is essentially a parable about overcoming evil/satan or the dragon represented non Christian enemies (crusades) But from what you discussed in the podcast, there are many examples of a warrior archetype killing a serpent throughout pre christian history too. So maybe it's not that unusual for dragons/serpents to be more malevolant/monstrous/antaginistic in some traditions & Christianity just adopted a motif that already existed.
    Dragons are also associated with comets & meteors. This symbolism & allegory was used heavily in ASOIAF( Game of Thrones)
    Really cool podcast. Can't wait for part 2 ☄🐲🐉

  • @cylesmith8291
    @cylesmith8291 3 роки тому +5

    6:30 My first experience with dragons was because my dad had a collection of some really bad ass east asian dragon statues (you know, the ones posed on a rocky crag with one paw on a marble orb, looking slender without wings).
    I remember that we had an artist doing body painting at the daycare I went to growing up doing free body paintings (like face or hands, nothing creepy). Mind you this is, like, San Rafael in 1993, Toothless didn't exist yet and Lord of the Rings wasn't very widespread.
    This artist asked me what I would want painted on me and I told her I wanted a dragon. She painted on my forearm this totally Pete and the Dragon doofy-looking, winged lizard and I was so embarrassed I hid up in the playground the entire day.

    • @FidesAla
      @FidesAla 2 роки тому

      I grew up around adults who loved musicals, so I watched a lot of Disney and non-Disney, so mine was probably Maleficent, or that... that one movie called Quest for Camelot. Were there other Arthurian movies for kids in the '90's? Did Disney's Arthur movie (The Sword in the Stone) have a dragon? Did Fantasia? I remember being in kindergarten and sorting out the differences between dragons and dinosaurs...
      I read the Hobbit when I was 7 and hated it, reread it as an adult and still hated it. Go ahead and burn me at the stake, I don't like Tolkien.

    • @helenberrios4921
      @helenberrios4921 2 роки тому

      I made up my own dragon in my head

  • @rvfiasco
    @rvfiasco 4 роки тому +1

    Nice Final Fantasy drop with Tiamat. Also; the Simon version of the Necronomicon references Sumerian Deities as well. Digging this series & love this channel!

  • @dirtypure2023
    @dirtypure2023 4 роки тому +6

    Good stuff!
    If you guys are interested in the origins of mythology and mythological figures (especially Greek gods but also including dragons, petroglyphs, and other ancient lore, symbols, and art), I would highly, HIGHLY recommend a documentary called Symbols of an Alien Sky (nothing whatsoever to do with extraterrestrials, by the way). It offers an alternative hypothesis for how these myths and legends are rooted in a shared experience by ancient peoples across the globe, which they interpreted as gods and later anthropomorphized into mythology. The evidence for this is very, very compelling and it's all in the documentary.
    It can be found here on UA-cam on the channel Thunderbolts Project. I expect you guys will do a pod on Greek mythology at some point so please give it a watch before then if you have time. It's absolutely worth the time, and in my opinion should be seen by anyone fascinated by ancient history and the origins of our symbols and mythology. Cheers!

  • @shadowmihaiu
    @shadowmihaiu 4 роки тому +2

    Essential work - here in L.A., podcasts, news programs, journalism and those services required for such are specifically set out in the government's emergency order as "essential services". In the home of Hollywood/Burbank, that might be understandable. Really like the topic - my family name is Dragu, a Romanian variant for Dragon.

  • @wendychavez5348
    @wendychavez5348 3 роки тому +1

    This is so comprehensive, and I look forward to Part II with bated breath!

  • @TheHistocrat
    @TheHistocrat  4 роки тому +20

    This podcast is now also available on Spotify, iTunes and Stitcher! You can find them at the links below:
    Spotify - open.spotify.com/episode/0uXwusVOJB6tHStHmBmTvi
    iTunes - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/here-be-dragons/id1514656609?i=1000475338133
    Stitcher - www.stitcher.com/podcast/mythillogical-podcast/e/76743007

    • @joemoer1
      @joemoer1 4 роки тому +3

      Love your work👍🏻👍🏻

    • @UnkleKnuck
      @UnkleKnuck 4 роки тому

      Great video, looking forward to your podcast on the floods. You guys should do something in regards to the Greek Eleusinian Mysteries!

  • @pelewads
    @pelewads 4 роки тому +8

    The original inhabitants of norther Japan, came from Russia. I'm referring to the Ainu. But this was prehistory,so.......

    • @ru.lo.4904
      @ru.lo.4904 3 роки тому +2

      Keep going

    • @Waterislifelife
      @Waterislifelife 2 роки тому

      The Ainu originated from Africa, and they were black and migrated to Japan.

  • @ronitroy0001
    @ronitroy0001 4 роки тому +2

    Haven't clicked this fast on a youtube video ever!
    Your organization and exposition of topics is unparalleled. Love you dude!

    • @BarbaraRademacher
      @BarbaraRademacher 3 роки тому

      I have never read through the comment section for ANY video. I feel like I would like all of you.

  • @captainidiot4301
    @captainidiot4301 Рік тому +2

    Imagine being the first guy to find a pterosaur fossil

  • @npalmi88
    @npalmi88 Рік тому +2

    In the middle ages and prior, there were komodo dragon type creatures in Europe and Asia. They were probably an evolutionary offshoot of the komodo. I don't have to prove this. It came to me in a dream.

  • @BarbaraRademacher
    @BarbaraRademacher 3 роки тому

    How fascinating! I would love to learn more about you guys. I'm a math professor at a community college in the U.S. and, I dare say, I work with a number of people who had the great misfortune (?) to earn their Ph.Ds AFTER universities began pulling back on awarding tenure. It sounds, from your remarks in the opening discussion, that Charles and Crofty fall into that category. Could you make a semi-biographical vid about your sad (?) stories which may have been tragic for you, but was a boon for your subscribers? I have just now discovered you (my incredibly lucky Sunday morning as I linger late in my nightgown); after becoming addicted to your channel within a few minutes of watching your video, I am now a subscriber and would love to hear your stories.

  • @VEDADDY_OFFICIAL
    @VEDADDY_OFFICIAL Рік тому

    Am loving this podcast. Subscribed

  • @natwalpole2263
    @natwalpole2263 4 роки тому +5

    The relationship between Tiamet and Marduk is interesting, I know some people view this as evidence of a cultural shift from an egalitarian society to a more patriarchal one. Which is an interesting idea, which i don't know enough about mythology and ancient history to say if i believe or not.

  • @draconiannutter3488
    @draconiannutter3488 4 роки тому

    Fascinating video. Stumbled across your channel randomly but defo a huge fan now. I Love dragons ^_^

  • @davidbryden7904
    @davidbryden7904 Рік тому +2

    I'd image that a 23-foot saltwater crocodile would look like a sea serpent to early mariners.

  • @getsaucedon9313
    @getsaucedon9313 3 роки тому +1

    THIS IS AMAZING I LOVE THIS!!!!!!!

  • @joelkurowski7129
    @joelkurowski7129 2 роки тому +1

    21:20 Tiamat is even more prominent in the inspiration for Final Fantasy- Dungeons and Dragons. She, along with Marduk and other figures from Mesopotamian mythology, were given statistics in the Deities and Demigods book. She is depicted as the Mother of Dragons, with a separate head for each of the Evil Dragon species descended from her. This depiction was the inspiration for Final Fantasy's Tiamat.

  • @sacha8763
    @sacha8763 Рік тому +1

    My first encounter with dragons was probably in the tales of Earthsea.

  • @brunopereira6789
    @brunopereira6789 2 роки тому +4

    I wonder if the Sun god (Apollo) fighting a serpent (Python) has any relation to the Sun god (Ra) fighting a serpent (Apophis)

  • @TheCronesEye
    @TheCronesEye 4 роки тому

    This was wonderful. Looking forward to future installments. 👍

  • @padalan2504
    @padalan2504 3 роки тому +1

    In Slavic myths the storm god Perun sometimes contends with a serpent god Veles. There might be some link there considering the Hittite language also has a similar structure to the slavic languages. Slavs also seem to have a lot of multiheaded fire breathing dragons called San, or have dragons which can turn into a human or dragons which have a more of a humanoid form.
    Also while the silk road was established during the han dynasty (200 BCE) The contact of Central Asia with West Asia and in turn with East Asia existed possibly as far back as 5000 years ago. The contact was unfortunately severed by the spread of the Gobi desert, but the naval contact must have persisted as silks, spices and other valuable goods such as jade and lapis lazuli still flowed into the Middle East and in turn found themselves in hands of Phoenicians and later on Romans.

  • @ecritdelajaponographie8565
    @ecritdelajaponographie8565 4 роки тому +4

    Susasno-o did not cause Amaterasu to be "exiled". She was upset and hid away in a cave, but no one else actually wanted her to do that.

  • @samdavies7724
    @samdavies7724 Рік тому

    My first memory of dragons being a thing was in year 1 of school (UK) around 1995. They would roll in the big TV, put the video tape in and show us - Look and read, Through the dragons eye. Was brilliantly weird and British. Love the nostalgia of it now.

  • @mrrodriguez2947
    @mrrodriguez2947 4 роки тому

    2hr vid about dragon mythology 👀
    you my friends have earned my curiosity and subscription

  • @ryuugureen4969
    @ryuugureen4969 4 роки тому

    Two videos in a week? You're spoiling us!

  • @jamespfp
    @jamespfp 4 роки тому +8

    1:06:23 -- "However, in Japanese Mythology, the 5th Element is Void." -- Funny enough though, as long as the 5th Element has an association with Saturn, that "Void" could also be interpreted as human Freedom of Choice, AKA "Chaos" of a kind, creative possibility and freedom of action through imagination.

  • @lotusoflife2486
    @lotusoflife2486 4 роки тому +2

    In The Witcher TV series adaptation one of the dragons can transform into a human and back to a dragon. Great stuff🐉🐲

    • @TheEvolver311
      @TheEvolver311 2 роки тому +2

      D&D has had that power given to Dragons since the 1970's.

  • @derekk.2263
    @derekk.2263 3 роки тому +3

    Homie, My Little Pony is all about mythology.

  • @connorlappe2418
    @connorlappe2418 2 роки тому

    🤠you guys are GREAT🤠 i have so much fun listening.

  • @tracey2910
    @tracey2910 4 роки тому +4

    My first memory of a dragon was in a dream at five years old.

    • @tracey2910
      @tracey2910 4 роки тому +1

      To the person who liked my comment, did u ever have dreams of dragons too.?? This was also a recurring dream. I'm using the word Dream here but I should probably be saying Nightmare. And the Dragon was purple by the way.

  • @WK-47
    @WK-47 2 роки тому

    At least in Mandarin transliterated in Pinyin, 'zh' is roughly a J sound with the tongue at the back of the roof of the mouth (I forget what the technical term in linguistics is), i.e., it doesn't sound much like Z and is awkward for native English speakers to pronounce.
    ...but that's just being pedantic about one single detail. Quality content, quality banter and a quality channel. Cheers, lads.

  • @jamespfp
    @jamespfp 4 роки тому +2

    1:03:45 -- I stumbled on this set of associations by accident a number of years ago, whilst looking into worldwide patterns for numerological systems, such as days of the week. China, like most of the rest of the world, apparently noticed that 5 days for the "work-week" and 2 days for the special deities spoke deeply to our human sense of understanding. Thus, Sun and Moon days exist worldwide, and each of the 5 week days with solar system objects attached.
    This also presents something of a puzzle for the whole Order / Chaos dichotomy you've been outlining; notice in the English calendar of the Middle Ages and onward how the 7 days are split down the middle between classical and pagan identities? Mercury, alongside Odin, for example. Also, both Sun and Moon were given alchemical importance in their myths about where and how the various metals were made. The Chinese system truly distinguishes itself in the set of 5 elements, rather than the classical European 3 or 4.

    • @jamespfp
      @jamespfp 4 роки тому +1

      The Middle Element, "Yellow Deity" cross associated with Saturn is the 5th Element, the Human interface between the ideal and the real, and the sublime stuff which forms on crude matter because of it.

  • @beansnrice321
    @beansnrice321 10 місяців тому

    This was a strange Elden Ring lore video but I'm here for it. =)

  • @lazygamer4746
    @lazygamer4746 4 роки тому +3

    First exposure to Dragons? An old cartoon called Flight of the Dragons. I think it had some famous voice actors.

  • @jevana
    @jevana 3 роки тому +1

    "Zh" in Chinese is more of "dj" sound from what my chinese friend has instructed me, belatedly. it can sound like a "s" or "z" to english speaking ears, not unlike the french "j". it was actually an enlightening pronunciation discussion. either way, enjoyed this!

  • @cnacma
    @cnacma 4 роки тому +30

    It’s criminal that this channel only has 65k subs. I spend hours watching these videos and they’re so well done. They also go deep into tough subjects that actually take research that other youtubers ignore.
    Does historcrat have a Patreon?

  • @FidesAla
    @FidesAla 2 роки тому

    1:03:12 -- if you've ever heard the names Genbu, Seiryuu, Suzaku, Byakko, those are the Japanese names for those deities. Genbu is a turtle (sometimes a dragon-like turtle), Seiryuu is a dragon, Suzaku is a firebird (not the same as a phoenix, and Asian and European phoenixes are already different), Byakko is a white tiger. These come up in a lot of anime, etc., both as gods (Fushigi Yugi, Tsukino Empire), and as names for characters (e.g. one of the main characters in Code Geass is Suzaku, and his father's name is Genbu).
    Also, if you've ever seen an anime character with the name Kusanagi (e.g. in Ghost in the Shell), that name comes from the sword that Susano'o got out of the dragon after killing it.

  • @AlexiusRedwood
    @AlexiusRedwood 4 роки тому

    I'm starting to love this channel keep it up bruddah

  • @zyzzy3808
    @zyzzy3808 4 роки тому +2

    This is the coziest channel of all time

  • @benjamintrejo9307
    @benjamintrejo9307 4 роки тому +2

    Been waiting for your upload lol.

  • @cameronf5893
    @cameronf5893 4 роки тому +2

    This is really cool :) FYI your not far into your playlist so I'll just say that it's really hard to binge watch a show when the playlist is backwards lol just my problem. Other people might have it too. IDK. Trying to constructive, not mean. Have a good one :)

  • @davidnichols8285
    @davidnichols8285 4 роки тому

    Love your channel ! Big mythology fan !

  • @AmericanWay72
    @AmericanWay72 4 роки тому

    Enjoying this very much!

  • @robertgotschall1246
    @robertgotschall1246 4 роки тому +2

    Wow, that's a lot more about dragons then I expected.
    My first dragon was about six when my church group showed us a film depicting St. George fighting a dragon
    According to a recent paleo documentary about new feathered dinosaur finds in China, (Feathered Dragons) the same Chinese word means both dinosaur and dragons
    One writer suggests that the biblical behemoth actually referred to Nile crocodiles?

    • @viridianacortes9642
      @viridianacortes9642 3 роки тому

      I think most scholars agree Behemoth was a giant bull that symbolized livestock and nature.

  • @dracorex426
    @dracorex426 3 роки тому +1

    The Chaoskampf's appearance in Japan has an incredibly obvious source. Buddhism made it to Japan. Buddhism is a Vedic religion. The Vedic religions are Proto-Indo-European religions. What did you think the "Indo" in "Proto-Indo-European" means?

  • @J1mston
    @J1mston 3 роки тому

    Just found you and this was great, subscribed. I'll be checking out many more videos soon. Also, nice to see a couple of fellow Yorkshire lads take such an interest in history.

  • @idrisa7909
    @idrisa7909 3 роки тому +2

    Imo it's pretty clear that G-d was given aspects of Baal, El, and Asherah. The most controversial thing would be saying he was "co-opted", as Canaanite religion evolved into monotheism within itself into Judaism, though there is evidence that this was at points enforced on the population by rulers and priests and there was a lingering aspect of polytheism for awhile. Nitpicky I know but I get sick of people (mostly pagans) claiming that Judaism "stole everything" from other religions instead of... evolving from Canaanite and Mesopotamian religions over time.

  • @lasgalon
    @lasgalon 3 роки тому +2

    The Hobbit was my first bedtime story book so Smaug was my firs dragon as well

  • @yogachick1955
    @yogachick1955 4 роки тому +17

    Dismissing misinterpretation of the fossil record and dinosaurs, etc, seems odd to me. Also, there's a relationship between Griffons & their treasure and a find of beaked dinosaurs and their fossilized nests.

    • @darnokthemage170
      @darnokthemage170 4 роки тому +3

      That has been disproven. markwitton-com.blogspot.com/2016/04/why-protoceratops-almost-certainly.html?m=1

    • @andybeans5790
      @andybeans5790 4 роки тому +1

      I think it's wishful thinking to suppose ancient peoples would have the resources or inclination to extract large fossils

    • @StoneCorazon
      @StoneCorazon 4 роки тому +5

      We extracted them in the 1800’s using hand tools so it’s entirely feasible.

    • @awesomeatronik
      @awesomeatronik 3 роки тому

      @@andybeans5790 but they could build pyramids?

    • @beneficent2557
      @beneficent2557 2 роки тому

      Griffins are of Scythian Origin and are associated with Protoceratops.

  • @duantorruellas716
    @duantorruellas716 2 роки тому

    That's a great looking dragon there on the cover art. 👍

  • @oh-offendi6461
    @oh-offendi6461 4 роки тому +1

    T'was the Algorythm that bringeth me. Quest la vie.

  • @dracorex426
    @dracorex426 3 роки тому +1

    There are SO many cases of humans becoming dragons and dragons becoming humans.

  • @denaisaacthiswasgreat.thum7598
    @denaisaacthiswasgreat.thum7598 3 місяці тому

    Ahhhhhh Red Dwarf!!!!!! So loved that!!!!

  • @choji8725
    @choji8725 4 роки тому +1

    I needed this.
    Thank You

    • @choji8725
      @choji8725 4 роки тому

      Some personal insight here. My parents are of the old Hellenes. My mother hates snakes of any sorts. She never heard of Dragons until she moved here to the USA in the 50s.
      To this day, a tiny Garter Snake is no different from any Pit Viper from her perspective.
      My father has passed some time ago. He used to take us to the Hercules movies back in the Steve Reeves days. Which of course was formative in my own studies.

  • @magnusheister8466
    @magnusheister8466 4 роки тому +3

    The indo-european tribes 6000-4000 years ago started migrating both west, east and south. These tribes had their on religion, language and distinct genoms/genetic make up, the primerly went west and changed all of europe up til now, the populations were much bigger in the south and east however compared to europe and therefor did not change those areas that much as they did on europe, but they migrated eccept from europe, iran and india also all the way to the most north eastern siberia which means that they could have migrated into north america and japan, genetic tests on north american indians shows that they share the same mitocndria haplogroup genes that modern europeans have, that means that they also migrated in to north america and mixed with that populas, I do not know if it is the same with the japanese but som indo-european tribes at that time might have migrated there and influenced their religions, myths and legends. Sometimes the indo-europen tribes would mix with the inhabitans of the lands they migrated to but sometimes they merely just conquered it and ruled the original populace and only influencing their culture and religion and not their genetic make up so much, this they did in for example india and iran and might have done in other places such as north america and japan. Look up the Mal'ta boy if you are interested.

  • @babyfacemick
    @babyfacemick 3 роки тому

    This is REALLY COOL THANKS!!!

  • @COMBLOCVZ58
    @COMBLOCVZ58 4 роки тому +3

    For chinese
    Zh is pronounced like J
    Q is pronounced like Ch
    X is pronounced like Sh

  • @texaslace2472
    @texaslace2472 4 роки тому

    You guys are amazing. I just found y'all three days ago.

  • @shishkabobby
    @shishkabobby 3 роки тому +1

    Heracles means ‘Glory to Hera’. This may just be a lame attempt by Zeus to placate Hera. But I wonder if this points back to a pre-IndoEuropean pantheon lead by a goddess who became subordinate when the indoEuropeans took over.

  • @ffa2dramachick
    @ffa2dramachick 3 роки тому +1

    I'm disappointed this isn't SCP related... But YAY!!! HISTORY!!!

  • @jaredthehawk3870
    @jaredthehawk3870 Рік тому

    Susano-o vs Yamata-no-Orochi likely came to Japan via India, which has its own serpent slaying myth in Indra vs Vritra. This means it is also a derivative of the Proto-Indo-European myth.

  • @ge3neva
    @ge3neva 3 роки тому

    The bitter irony of mispronouncing mispronunciation when apologizing for bad pronunciation is not lost on us! 9:20Great vid

  • @RickMitchellProvenanceAndRoots
    @RickMitchellProvenanceAndRoots 4 роки тому +3

    This was absolutely fascinating! GREAT first ep for the podcast.
    Is this available elsewhere than on YT?

    • @TheHistocrat
      @TheHistocrat  4 роки тому +3

      It will be in the next few days. Will update soon.

  • @isaidwhatisaid12
    @isaidwhatisaid12 Рік тому +4

    My first dragon was Mulan! He was cute and tiny and I wanted my own dragon not realizing most depictions are like the dragons in Game of Thrones. Still love dragons 20 years later.

  • @Vivirdeloscuentos
    @Vivirdeloscuentos 3 роки тому

    Thank you so much for these high quality videos! I would like to ask if in the future you could do a video about Atlantis

  • @timflatus
    @timflatus 4 роки тому

    Gosh, you have been busy over lockdown. Not sure when I will have time to listen to another 2 hour segment, but will add to the ever growing Watch Later list.

  • @carwashadamcooper1538
    @carwashadamcooper1538 4 роки тому

    I love your stuff! Thank you.

  • @yas_lana
    @yas_lana 2 роки тому +1

    Okay, I am sorry, but I would like to read a thesis about how those old myths still influence the stories we tell today. I this case they may used my little pony but I would expect similar parallels can be drawn to other shows/movies.

  • @Chrelms
    @Chrelms Рік тому +1

    Red Dwarf is GREAT!!!

  • @Sara-lm8zv
    @Sara-lm8zv Рік тому +2

    Why not My Little Pony? And yes the episodes teach how to solve issues in unique and friendly way.

  • @abdelrahmanmustafa8937
    @abdelrahmanmustafa8937 4 місяці тому

    When I listen to Charles and Crofty I feel like with two old friends

  • @Beansareamagicalfruit
    @Beansareamagicalfruit 4 роки тому

    Love this, keep it up guys.