After shooting on this Camera extensively for the last 8 months, I have mostly been shooting everything in Cinema RAW and transcoding to 1080 4444 in cLog2. You are capturing in the highest 12 bit codec... and retain all of that in a great 1080 pro res file. cLog2 has the most dynamic range (15 stops) and it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between the 1080 and 4k file. You can even upres the 1080 into a 4k file with little to no degradation.
Great review! (I've watched them all!). As a C100mk2 owner I would love to purchase this. My main concern is the file size of RAW! New iMac.... New hard drives etc... And probably the cost of a divorce if my wife discovers how much I spend on these expensive hobbies!
Hey Caleb. I have a C100ii with the Canon 24-105 L lens. is an Atomos external recorder worth $900 for the higher bitrate recording? can my camera even output 10 bit 422 to it (maybe just 8-bit)? And doesn't higher bit rate matter less when you're not shooting fast action? like, in a talking head interview shoot, does it even look that different? How much better would my vids look with a Xeen or Canon cine lens vs what i use now? thanks, love your stuff. My wife and I drink a shot every time you pronounce the word 'button' as 'buh-en' :-)
Andrew Peck the Atomos is definitely worth extra! You can push the footage slightly more and trust me when you get exposure or white balance wrong it massively helps.
In my experience with the C200 a cFast of 256gb will give you 34mins of RAW footage, not 20mins. From Lexar to EgoDisk, 34mins, consistently. As a full-time editor for the last 10 years I've NEVER had the need to edit RAW files, we always edit proxies files. Editing proxies will playback fast and uninterrupted always and on most computers. *Editing* directly RAW files is a commodity rather than a necessity. Which brings me to one of the things I totally don't like about the C200: it names the 2K proxy files with the same structure as a DSLR (MVI_0034) and it doesn't use the same name structure as the RAW files (A001C001_YYMMDD). Which is a mess because you have to rename the MP4 in order to relink them later on Resolve or Premiere. Another thing is when one converts the RAW to ProRes it puts each clip into a separate folder (Really Canon, really?) so one has to either import them one by one into the NLE or re-organize them into one single folder. I think this is the mayor complaint one can honestly have in a camera like the C200, which is very much likely to be fixed by Canon later on. Hopefully. Overall, the camera will fit in almost any professional production, I don't see this camera as a "Wedding/Event Camera", or as "digital content" only, this camera can be easily be used for high-end commercial shoots, feature films, and documentaries. The MP4 files are AMAZING, and for documentaries you can use them for your main interviews and the RAW files for your B-ROLL.
Well that's terrible :( As an editor personally I don't need RAW, but, if I was a colourist, that would be a whole other ball game! Cine RAW is pretty essential to grade high-end footage shot in F-Log.
I am so impressed with the C100 II (Bought New old stock big savings) I went and bought a C200 used as well. It is amazing at how much you can get for so little in cash outlay.
I know this review was from back in 2017.. but you can record 10bit 422 to an Ninja V.. With that you have 8bit, 10bit, and 12 bit options with the C200.
High bit rate is all about the ability to grade - it has little to do with Netflix etc as you claim. Whether you are aiming for web distribution or other, being able to grade a lot is a huge benefit.
Nice review. I ordered the c200, and sold my c300 mark ii. I needed 4K 60p, end of story. For client work, this is perfect for talking head videos, where you can shoot all day in 4K MP4. I will miss that in-between 10bit 422. If I need a serious image, I will eat cards and roll with RAW light. You just have to be real with your budget and take a look at the work you do on a regular basis.
Bobby Pitts Totally agree. Having what you mostly need in a camera as a daily driver is more important than bells and whistles. I think you made a solid move. 🤙🏽
Everyone absolutely should learn the difference between 8bit and 10bit and whether or not you need it. It makes a huge difference even on the web *if* you need it.
trevorpinnocky Definitely agree. My editor wanted me to take out my rambling about 10-bit and broadcast standards but I wanted to leave it in for people that don’t know what that’s all about. And if you don’t know the difference, you probably don’t need to worry about it right now.
it matters more when shooting fast action. it mattes less when shooting slow or static like a seated interview subject (put the extra budget into better sound in that case)
Love the no-nonsense approach. And putting things in perspective. Everybody is raging on about the lack of 10 bit, but yeah, if your work is going to end up mostly on youtube, I think you can take that loss.
FYI, From PBS Redbook - 3.2.1 HD Image The HD image format shall be 1920 X 1080 pixels, 4:2:2 with 8 or 10 bit sampling and compliant with SMPTE ST 274-2008 standard. These image specifications should be preserved as much as possible throughout the production process. So, the C200 will work fine for documentary production for broadcast.
Thanks for this... I'll stick with my GH5 until I NEED to upgrade. Right now the EVA1 really looks like the best bang for your buck... let's hope the image is as good as the C200
Bought your course a while back and have applied tools learned to help grow my channel. Using the a C100ii and C300ii as B and A cam, but have been eyeing C200 as a replacement for C100. Keep up the good work! Mike
Hi Caleb. Canon 'Development s/w' transcode is to Prores only on Mac, of course. On PC it's a choice of DPX or OpenEXE at present, which both take up even far more storage than raw light. I don't yet know how sound is handled. Bob
You can buy low hour cameras (15 or less) for 2K or under and Final Cut pro now natively supports Canon Raw Light. Now modern computers have no issue handling these RAW light files. C200 has to be the best for the buck Cinema camera you can get. Oh and 256gb Sandisk Cfast 2.0 cards can be had for 140 dollars used. With a small budget you can have a complete turnkey cinema setup for creating an independent film on a shoestring budget.
I got my C200 last week and have not been disappointed. As Canon always seem to do, the technical specs don't convey the actual quality of the image. The 4:2:0 4K is nice and it's good to have a UHD option + 10bit HD from the HDMI port. The 4K RAW is very good and if you can deal with the files sizes and post requirements, it's great. I don't find it un-manageable. As an experienced post guy who's familiar with Resolve, I'm not daunted by CRW at all, and you don't have to spend BIG money on cFast cards. You can find really good cheaper cards like the 256GB EgoPro ones on Amazon US$299. They're a good deal and they work great. Also for me the big plus is you get Canon/ARRI type colour science - not the other type and in the end image quality is everything.
Excellent review. Given that a majority of my work is corporate testimonials and web-based work, I think this is a solid upgrade from the GH4 world I’m living in. We’ll usually rent out an FS7 or C300 for a few projects, but the C200 will be a great in-house camera. Time to make the step up. Thank you for the thorough breakdown.
Great review. I totally agree with all the plusses and most of the minuses. I disagree regarding only having 8-bit / 420 being only relevant for broadcast requirements. I would much prefer 10 bit 422 internal options, like the Sony FS5 XAVC codec, as a compromise between file size and gradability. To me this camera has a huge hole in the middle of what it can capture in terms of quality. I currently use a C100 MKII and would jump to the C300 MKII over the C200 as a second camera for post-processing practicality, even taking into consideration all the great new features of the C200. Just my take.
When Caleb mentioned, that you can´t use the hdmi when you are already using the SDI output, that completely turned me down (last nail in the C200 coffin for me). How the hack can they do that and still charging 8200 Euros here in Germany for body only. I will wait what picture quality the Panasonic EVA will deliver. On paper, it sounds so much more for the buck. Let´s see...
Love the Caleb Wojcik pronunciation of “Buhenz” (aka Buttons). Lol. Great job on the video though bro. You made a lot of great comments! I’ve rented it as well, and I truly feel the camera is as amazing as it is crappy. Thanks for putting this video together. It’s the best review out there. I would not recommend this camera for an event videographer for two reasons: 1). The file size is huge and cards are expensive, 2). The production workflow adds a tremendous amount of additional time. Most event gigs don’t pay enough to justify the cost of cards and the additional workflow time.
Thanks for the review. Bit depth is important, we need it for color correction. It doesn't matter if you publish on youtube, broadcast on tv or shoot for Netflix. For instance when using log you need a lot of color information to be able to color grade your image. With 8 bit camera's I wouldn't recommend shooting log because it's hard to change it back to a rec709 image.
What a great, informative review. MUCH appreciated!! One thing that would be cool is if you could talk about the differences in image quality between RAW out of the C200 and RAW out of your Scarlet W. Thanks so much for considering.
I really like this camera for all the reasons you give. The only thing that I just can't stand for today's 4K cameras is that they advertise 4K but the frame rate is always crippled. For instance, this camera is marketed as a 4K camera but you can't go higher than 60p. I wouldn't complain so much if it weren't for the fact that I can't even record 4K RAW. For this reason, I'm leaning toward the Panasonic EVA1 or heck...even the Sony FS7 MKII. Another thing...the resolution suffers when you crop. The EVA1 can record 5.7K and give you that extra buffer around the edges to for cropping. Anyway, good review. Thanks!!
Great review Caleb. Side note, I'm getting 34 minutes of (24p, 30p, or 60p) to 256GB CFast. I've put quite a bit of testing into the workflow and I was surprised the time wasn't affected when I made changes to the frame rate. With the proxy, I'm not sure why you would need to record a proxy for the 150/Mbps files. You can record redundant files for safety net purposes to the SD cards. I've found the 150/Mbps files are very NLE friendly making proxies not needed.
Tomas Villegas Hey Tomas, thanks for extra info. Great to hear you get a big more than I calculated on the CFast 2.0 cards! As for why I’d use Proxy’s, it is more for getting footage to an editor over the internet vs. playback performance in an NLE.
Thanks Caleb! I'll still be going for the C100mk2.
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Thank you very much for this video, very interesting, obviously it is a tempting camera. I own 2 Canon C300, and I really like its image, very solid files. Obviously without 4k, but, for now, no customer asks me for it, I hope it is so for the maximum time possible.
Ricardo Marquina Montañana That’s a great strategy Ricardo and what I’ve been mostly doing too. Stick with 2 1080p cameras for most of my projects until my clients need 4K.
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Hope Santa will present to me, someday, a RED camera. Regards from Moscow.
Thanks Caleb. Rather than broadcast or grading requirements, my concerns with the 8 bit images would be banding, which I see in my C100 mk2 footage when I use a soft spotlight falling into shadow on interview backgrounds. Do you think the higher data rate in the C200 helps with this?
Great review, very interesting to hear your thoughts now that you are now a Red as well as a Canon user. Very succinct summary of the pros and cons of this camera...
Just to clarify. I get 16 minutes (at 23.98 in Raw mode) with a 128 gig CFast card. So Caleb your 256 card should give you 32 minutes. You negatives overwhelm the fact that this camera is great a specific things. Similar to a RED - it has it's purpose but it's not great for everything. It's just a tool.
Very good review bud. I am Canon C 300 and Canon 5D Mark IV user...and I just ordered the Panasonic Eva1. I am tired of Canon short changing us. I love the canon color, and the C 300 is perfect for 1080P shooting and low light, but the fact that I can't shoot 60P, that was limiting me. 5D Mark IV shoots nice 60P but it doesn't hold up as well in low light as the C300. I am hoping the Panasonic will shoot well in low light. I am really going to miss the autofocus of Canon, but I guess I can't have everything. Buying the Panasonic is future proofing a bit for few years, vs the C 200 is going backwards. What's your opinion between Red Vs Arri Mini? Have you used both...any difference in image, color? Thank again for a great review.
Solid review. I really appreciate the depth, too, those points about color space were eye-opening. While I'm going to be shooting primarily in 1080 for clients, I'm extremely interested in the 4K primarily for future short film projects. Unfortunately the compression on the C200 and C-Fast usage is a deal breaker for me. I would not buy the 256GB C-Fast because I like to be able to transfer footage on a 32GB, 64GB or 128GB card while I'm recording with another; plus the pain is lessened in the case of card failure. But, I'm a Canon guy and I use only Canon EF L series lenses. After this video, I'm thinking I should just go with the C100 II and 'earn' my way up to C700.
Splendid review. Loved it. My biggest takeaway: Slow-motion with no internal sound and no auto-focus. Certainly will be a consideration in my choice for an action cam. Thanks
Great review. I am very close to purchasing a c200. I currently shoot on a7sii. Wanting to step it up a notch. Love the canon raw image, have a feeling I’ll end up using the 8bit option due to workflow though. Are the red raw file sizes smaller and easier to work with? Which red is around the right price point for me ?
Thanks for this Caleb! I was so inbetween the C200 and UM4.6k...the only advantage to me was the autofocus on the C200. I'm super happy I went the 4.6k, so many "cons" on the C200. Seems great, but Canon never gives you everything, it always feels like they're handcuffing you unless you go to the C300ii. Price a little much for what is here. Anyways keep up the great work!
Caleb Wojcik oh, and even though I chose the UM, I have to be honest and say this is the most comprehensive, real world use video of the C200 I've seen, and I watched as many as I could. It's also coming from the right person who has used the Canon Cinema Series for quite a while, if I still had a purchase to make your opinion would have weighed heavily on me! So yeah, cheers, always love your POV on things!
Noir Et Blanc Vie Hello, are you still happy with your decision for going with um4.6k? I am so confused as my heart says UMP and head says c200 specially now in June 2018. What would you advice? I want it for events, corporates and narrative films. Cheers.
I would love to see a video comparing the GH5s to your RED Scarlet-W. I know the obvious, but I feel it's a review worth doing and one people would watch. Compare GH5s's waveform to RED's false color; Panasonic's HDR video to RED's HDRx; 400Mbps to variable bit rate/ 6:1, 8:1, 10:1 compression; GH5s best vs .R3D & ProRes 422/444, etc. I love using RED cameras, but only when the project budget can afford them. Thanks!
Thanks for the great review! I am thinking of having my C200 too. Any idea of how many hours can I shoot with the battery ( sd card 2k, for a documentary ) ?
microbroadcast I’ve noticed my last couple RED videos being maybe a frame or two off after exporting and uploading. Not sure what’s going on with that.
Thanks for this review. Before I watched this, I had assumed the C200 could simply out a RAW 4:2:2 10bit signal to an external recorder, making the 5min/64Gb a mute point. This feels like it is intentional from Canon. Maybe when the C300 mark iii comes out, with faster processors, Canon will rectify this obvious flaw. As far as only one operational SDI/HDMI at a time, can't you just run one to a recorder, then output another one from the recorder to video village? Or can you wifi a real-time signal to an iPad?
My C200 died yesterday. I had a shoot and the camera didn't turn on. Fan came on and SD card light came on but no EVF or LCD. After a while of problem solving the LCD came on and started blinking and the whole screen turned green. Today the camera will not turn on at all. Lucky I was able to use my 80D.
I'm a little late to the party but do you have any footage from both the 100mkII and 200 that we could see just to see the difference in image resolving? Preferably in a controlled environment with fixed lighting and lenses - seen too many "tests" with variable lighting, lenses, settings and subjects. And to level the playing field, could you shoot C100mkii in 1080, then C200 in 1080 and in 4k (in both MP4 and raw) downscaled in the NLE to a 1080 timeline? If you have a vimeo to upload the footage to as well that would be amazing. I know it's a lot to ask and not very relevant at this time but others may find it useful potentially and it'll be good to see a more accurate test. Cheers and thank you for an in-depth review!
Awesome review Caleb! Quick question. You mentioned autofocus do not work when in slow motion mode. Do that still count for regular mode but filmed at 60fps? Also do the c100 mk2 color match easily with the c200? Sorry I'm fairly new with log profiles. If both camera was using the same log profiles, would the color match the same? Thanks!
So you mentioned that you can't use auto focus during slow motion recording, but currently on my C100 MKII I never record in "slow motion" but rather shoot 60p and slow it down in post. Am I still able to shoot 60p and use auto focus on the c200? For me, that's all I would need.
How does the C200s 1080 footage compare to your C100 mkii? I hear the C100 footage is actually sharper in mp4 mode vs AVCHD. If this is the case, does transcoding 4K footage to 1080 make it much sharper?
I’m trying to get a good answer on which Manfrotto head is a good solid choice for my C100mkii. Will the cheap 500 head work fine? Looking to grab 2 but eventually 3
Can't the touchscreen be mounted OFF of the camera itself (separate small tripod or other support) to avoid any camera shake when touching focus point?
Great review. Im interested in the workflow w/ your editor that you mentioned. With the c100 mkii, you record in which formats and which format do you send to the editor and why? I film with a c100 and just send the editor the files via a hard drive. Just checking to see if there is a better way of doing it. Thanks
+Abu Bah On large shoots I send hard drives. For sure. But on smaller shoots or fast turnaround projects I will shoot proxy files to the 2nd SD or make them in Premiere. Then just share those with him via Dropbox. Does that help?
a long time passed since that review, and I saw you told you got a Red Scarlet... Could you tell me what you would prefer to make shorts movies... Canon or RED?
I love my C100's, I have a mark 1 and 2. I do wish it had 4k so i could crop in, in post. Having to use the Canon STM lenses instead of my Sigma Art, as I shoot all run n gun with a shotgun mic and you can hear the non STM lenses auto focusing unfortunately.
Canon could of simply offered a paid upgrade for the c100 mk ii, and been done. That is one reason Sony, and Red have the market investing in their cams because of their customer service. The market seems to be filled with cams that offer more bang for your buck at this price point. Don't get me wrong, Im a canon shooter, and have been for quite a while now, but this gets to me sometimes how they don't invest in loyal people that already have purchased 6000-14000 cams from them. For this price I would be trying to future proof my gear and look at cams that at least have 10-bit/12 bit capabilities even if I dont use them often. I'll wait for the c500 mkii or upgrade to a Red in the future i guess. I like Canon color science, but we spend so much time investing in gear and not knowledge at times. Im very guilty of that, and this was a wake call for me. Thanks Caleb for investing your time and money to do this review.
The video image changes around 2:41... What was that showing? What change is being shown here? It says "Shot by C200" throughout both changes so I'm confused. Are those two different cameras? ...what happened to show that visual difference?
you mentioned canon c200b being compatible with an external monitor..is the touch autofocus still compatible while using an external monitor either on the c200b or c200 stripped down and the screen replaced with something like an atomos ninja inferno
Nice review thanks but I just don't get it - you say forget recording raw because it cost a fortune on cards - but on the same hand the SD cards are almost worthless as well because your locked at such a low rez- hey its 2017 why would anyone come out with a camera that won't at least record 10 bit. It appears as if your stepping back rather than forward!
Thanks for the review. Do you think the C100 Mark II is good as b-cam for the c300 Mark II? I am coming from the Sony environment and haven´t workes with the Cine EOS line from Canon.. The Docu has to be shot with the C300 Mark IIin 4k as A-Cam, and I wanted to buy a B-Cam. What´s your take?
Thanks. I have seen your encouraging review of the C100 Mark II. Have you ever tried to scale up the 1080p footage of the C100 to 4k? C200 great,- but the pricetag is harsh for me. I gotta meditate about it.
I've never been a fan of Canon's line due to restrictive codecs and frame rates, but this seems the goods. Still can't justify the price tag over an Ursa Mini 4.6k Pro though
Carousel Visual Media If you are only going to get one camera that would be a hard choice for me, but since I have other Canon cameras I try to stay within the same color science. Haven’t used the Ursa Mini Pro outside of NAB at all though, so I can’t speak to it.
I've always loved Canon colour but the lack of codecs, frame rates and relative high price has always been a deal breaker for me. I am pretty heavily invested in the Sony Alpha line but looking to make the leap from hybrid. This review has definitely made me reconsider Canon though.
Carousel Visual Media from an UM4.6k you absolutely can't go wrong for the price. I love mine, minus the AF and viewfinder the UM wins in my book. I got mine used for $4300...just a steal, I didn't even need the UMpro...I love the SDI ports, it's got 2, it's just fantastic. C200, yeah I'm good on limited codecs and that soft ass 120fps HD, meh.
It's such a shame that the amount of data needed to shoot RAW seems to eliminate that as a possibility entirely. To use it practically adds several hundred dollars to the actual price, on top of the added inconvenience of juggling all that size. It makes me wonder who the hell the option is even for.
From Canon's site: "In addition to the internal recording, the EOS C200 can output either 1920x1080 YCC 4:2:2 10-bit over the HD-SDI Terminal, or 3840x2160 4:2:0 8-bit over the HDMI."
For most people I'd argue that they are just numbers. If you know what they actually mean and can tell the difference then you should worry about it, but in general if you're just publishing to UA-cam or Vimeo they are compressing your files so much the viewer won't be able to tell the difference.
I wouldn't say that 10bit is just necessary for broadcasting. I shoot with my sony a6500 in a log profile. In color correction, the image falls apart pretty quickly, especially noticeable in the skin tones. In my opinion 10bit color is more important than resolution and I don't know, why canon didn't implement a 1080p 10bit codec, like in the sony FS5 mii. Otherwise very great video, got a new sub :)
After shooting on this Camera extensively for the last 8 months, I have mostly been shooting everything in Cinema RAW and transcoding to 1080 4444 in cLog2. You are capturing in the highest 12 bit codec... and retain all of that in a great 1080 pro res file. cLog2 has the most dynamic range (15 stops) and it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between the 1080 and 4k file. You can even upres the 1080 into a 4k file with little to no degradation.
May you please share such footage?
Yeeaah... but it's CMOS...
Very nice, thanks for this Caleb.
Great review! (I've watched them all!). As a C100mk2 owner I would love to purchase this. My main concern is the file size of RAW! New iMac.... New hard drives etc... And probably the cost of a divorce if my wife discovers how much I spend on these expensive hobbies!
The Guitar Club Ha! Yeah, you don’t really need the RAW. I’d just keep your head down and keep cranking with the c100ii.
Hey Caleb. I have a C100ii with the Canon 24-105 L lens. is an Atomos external recorder worth $900 for the higher bitrate recording? can my camera even output 10 bit 422 to it (maybe just 8-bit)? And doesn't higher bit rate matter less when you're not shooting fast action? like, in a talking head interview shoot, does it even look that different? How much better would my vids look with a Xeen or Canon cine lens vs what i use now? thanks, love your stuff. My wife and I drink a shot every time you pronounce the word 'button' as 'buh-en' :-)
Andrew Peck the Atomos is definitely worth extra! You can push the footage slightly more and trust me when you get exposure or white balance wrong it massively helps.
Sigmas 18-35mm is incredible....!
Also false colour on Atomos is really handy for measuring correct exposure !
In my experience with the C200 a cFast of 256gb will give you 34mins of RAW footage, not 20mins. From Lexar to EgoDisk, 34mins, consistently. As a full-time editor for the last 10 years I've NEVER had the need to edit RAW files, we always edit proxies files. Editing proxies will playback fast and uninterrupted always and on most computers. *Editing* directly RAW files is a commodity rather than a necessity. Which brings me to one of the things I totally don't like about the C200: it names the 2K proxy files with the same structure as a DSLR (MVI_0034) and it doesn't use the same name structure as the RAW files (A001C001_YYMMDD). Which is a mess because you have to rename the MP4 in order to relink them later on Resolve or Premiere. Another thing is when one converts the RAW to ProRes it puts each clip into a separate folder (Really Canon, really?) so one has to either import them one by one into the NLE or re-organize them into one single folder. I think this is the mayor complaint one can honestly have in a camera like the C200, which is very much likely to be fixed by Canon later on. Hopefully. Overall, the camera will fit in almost any professional production, I don't see this camera as a "Wedding/Event Camera", or as "digital content" only, this camera can be easily be used for high-end commercial shoots, feature films, and documentaries. The MP4 files are AMAZING, and for documentaries you can use them for your main interviews and the RAW files for your B-ROLL.
Outch, different file structure and naming- this hurts. Good to know.
Yes, thanks for letting us know about the naming and file structure issue. That would annoy the heck out of me for proxy editing.
Well that's terrible :(
As an editor personally I don't need RAW, but, if I was a colourist, that would be a whole other ball game! Cine RAW is pretty essential to grade high-end footage shot in F-Log.
I am so impressed with the C100 II (Bought New old stock big savings) I went and bought a C200 used as well. It is amazing at how much you can get for so little in cash outlay.
I know this review was from back in 2017.. but you can record 10bit 422 to an Ninja V.. With that you have 8bit, 10bit, and 12 bit options with the C200.
Thank you!
Hi, Bill. Can you elaborate on what the setup and workflow for that is? Would be much appreciated :-)
FCPX now accepts Canon Raw Lite!
That's cool. Premiere Pro still does not support the format, but I prefer DaVinci Resolve so it doesn't really matter to me.
High bit rate is all about the ability to grade - it has little to do with Netflix etc as you claim. Whether you are aiming for web distribution or other, being able to grade a lot is a huge benefit.
Really excellent work Caleb. I really appreciated all the work you put into this review. Answered all the questions that I had. Thanks for posting.
Hey Caleb, thanks so much for taking the time to make this review. It was perfectly on point. This helps a lot. Thanks man!
Nice review. I ordered the c200, and sold my c300 mark ii. I needed 4K 60p, end of story. For client work, this is perfect for talking head videos, where you can shoot all day in 4K MP4. I will miss that in-between 10bit 422. If I need a serious image, I will eat cards and roll with RAW light. You just have to be real with your budget and take a look at the work you do on a regular basis.
Bobby Pitts Totally agree. Having what you mostly need in a camera as a daily driver is more important than bells and whistles. I think you made a solid move. 🤙🏽
I have a trick for talking-head clients : don't shoot in 4K. Shoot in RAW or just regular HD as they can't even make the difference! ;)
And yes the C300 have been used on some Blockbuster in use and place of an Arri Alexa, remember the Arri goes for 50K... well
Hey man! We met a met the Film and Music conference this year. Loved the review. We got bought a C200 this past week. Following your content! Thanks
Everyone absolutely should learn the difference between 8bit and 10bit and whether or not you need it. It makes a huge difference even on the web *if* you need it.
trevorpinnocky Definitely agree. My editor wanted me to take out my rambling about 10-bit and broadcast standards but I wanted to leave it in for people that don’t know what that’s all about. And if you don’t know the difference, you probably don’t need to worry about it right now.
And how do you know whether you need it (besides to sell stories to broadcast)...
it matters more when shooting fast action. it mattes less when shooting slow or static like a seated interview subject (put the extra budget into better sound in that case)
Love the no-nonsense approach. And putting things in perspective. Everybody is raging on about the lack of 10 bit, but yeah, if your work is going to end up mostly on youtube, I think you can take that loss.
FYI, From PBS Redbook - 3.2.1 HD Image
The HD image format shall be 1920 X 1080 pixels, 4:2:2 with 8 or 10 bit sampling and compliant with SMPTE ST 274-2008 standard. These image specifications should be preserved as much as possible throughout the production process.
So, the C200 will work fine for documentary production for broadcast.
Thanks for this... I'll stick with my GH5 until I NEED to upgrade. Right now the EVA1 really looks like the best bang for your buck... let's hope the image is as good as the C200
Sully Cortez Yeah, I’m curious what the quirks of the EVA1 will be. I’ll try to get my hands on one to review if possible.
Do not think it will have Af would be the first one that comes to mind.
Hell to the yeah. Thanks for doing this, Caleb!
High Intensity Health Sure thing! Took a lot of work, but my C100 II review performed so well I thought I’d keep the tradition going. 💪🏽
Bought your course a while back and have applied tools learned to help grow my channel.
Using the a C100ii and C300ii as B and A cam, but have been eyeing C200 as a replacement for C100.
Keep up the good work!
Mike
Hi Caleb. Canon 'Development s/w' transcode is to Prores only on Mac, of course. On PC it's a choice of DPX or OpenEXE at present, which both take up even far more storage than raw light. I don't yet know how sound is handled. Bob
Robert Hawtin Thanks for chiming in with the extra info Robert. 🤙🏽
You can buy low hour cameras (15 or less) for 2K or under and Final Cut pro now natively supports Canon Raw Light. Now modern computers have no issue handling these RAW light files. C200 has to be the best for the buck Cinema camera you can get. Oh and 256gb Sandisk Cfast 2.0 cards can be had for 140 dollars used. With a small budget you can have a complete turnkey cinema setup for creating an independent film on a shoestring budget.
I got my C200 last week and have not been disappointed. As Canon always seem to do, the technical specs don't convey the actual quality of the image. The 4:2:0 4K is nice and it's good to have a UHD option + 10bit HD from the HDMI port. The 4K RAW is very good and if you can deal with the files sizes and post requirements, it's great. I don't find it un-manageable. As an experienced post guy who's familiar with Resolve, I'm not daunted by CRW at all, and you don't have to spend BIG money on cFast cards. You can find really good cheaper cards like the 256GB EgoPro ones on Amazon US$299. They're a good deal and they work great. Also for me the big plus is you get Canon/ARRI type colour science - not the other type and in the end image quality is everything.
Thanks for chiming in Stephen. Glad to hear it is treating you well!
Excellent review. Given that a majority of my work is corporate testimonials and web-based work, I think this is a solid upgrade from the GH4 world I’m living in. We’ll usually rent out an FS7 or C300 for a few projects, but the C200 will be a great in-house camera. Time to make the step up. Thank you for the thorough breakdown.
DadVerb You’re welcome. Happy to help make the decision a little easier.
Great review. I totally agree with all the plusses and most of the minuses. I disagree regarding only having 8-bit / 420 being only relevant for broadcast requirements. I would much prefer 10 bit 422 internal options, like the Sony FS5 XAVC codec, as a compromise between file size and gradability. To me this camera has a huge hole in the middle of what it can capture in terms of quality. I currently use a C100 MKII and would jump to the C300 MKII over the C200 as a second camera for post-processing practicality, even taking into consideration all the great new features of the C200. Just my take.
When Caleb mentioned, that you can´t use the hdmi when you are already using the SDI output, that completely turned me down (last nail in the C200 coffin for me). How the hack can they do that and still charging 8200 Euros here in Germany for body only.
I will wait what picture quality the Panasonic EVA will deliver. On paper, it sounds so much more for the buck. Let´s see...
Love the Caleb Wojcik pronunciation of “Buhenz” (aka Buttons). Lol. Great job on the video though bro. You made a lot of great comments! I’ve rented it as well, and I truly feel the camera is as amazing as it is crappy. Thanks for putting this video together. It’s the best review out there.
I would not recommend this camera for an event videographer for two reasons: 1). The file size is huge and cards are expensive, 2). The production workflow adds a tremendous amount of additional time. Most event gigs don’t pay enough to justify the cost of cards and the additional workflow time.
Thanks for the review. Bit depth is important, we need it for color correction. It doesn't matter if you publish on youtube, broadcast on tv or shoot for Netflix. For instance when using log you need a lot of color information to be able to color grade your image. With 8 bit camera's I wouldn't recommend shooting log because it's hard to change it back to a rec709 image.
What a great, informative review. MUCH appreciated!!
One thing that would be cool is if you could talk about the differences in image quality between RAW out of the C200 and RAW out of your Scarlet W. Thanks so much for considering.
fs5 still is a good alternative, especially since an fs5 with a shogun inferno runs you about the same
I really like this camera for all the reasons you give. The only thing that I just can't stand for today's 4K cameras is that they advertise 4K but the frame rate is always crippled. For instance, this camera is marketed as a 4K camera but you can't go higher than 60p. I wouldn't complain so much if it weren't for the fact that I can't even record 4K RAW. For this reason, I'm leaning toward the Panasonic EVA1 or heck...even the Sony FS7 MKII. Another thing...the resolution suffers when you crop. The EVA1 can record 5.7K and give you that extra buffer around the edges to for cropping. Anyway, good review. Thanks!!
It looks nice, but I love my C100 mk ii.
Daniel Earl I love mine too. If I need my B and C cameras to be 4K I’d upgrade them, but my current clients don’t need 4K often.
Love, love, love your reviews. Best in the biz!
Great review Caleb. Side note, I'm getting 34 minutes of (24p, 30p, or 60p) to 256GB CFast. I've put quite a bit of testing into the workflow and I was surprised the time wasn't affected when I made changes to the frame rate. With the proxy, I'm not sure why you would need to record a proxy for the 150/Mbps files. You can record redundant files for safety net purposes to the SD cards. I've found the 150/Mbps files are very NLE friendly making proxies not needed.
Tomas Villegas Hey Tomas, thanks for extra info. Great to hear you get a big more than I calculated on the CFast 2.0 cards! As for why I’d use Proxy’s, it is more for getting footage to an editor over the internet vs. playback performance in an NLE.
Amazing straight forward review Caleb, Thank you!
Thanks for the kind words. :)
Thanks Caleb! I'll still be going for the C100mk2.
Thank you very much for this video, very interesting, obviously it is a tempting camera.
I own 2 Canon C300, and I really like its image, very solid files. Obviously without 4k, but, for now, no customer asks me for it, I hope it is so for the maximum time possible.
Ricardo Marquina Montañana That’s a great strategy Ricardo and what I’ve been mostly doing too. Stick with 2 1080p cameras for most of my projects until my clients need 4K.
Hope Santa will present to me, someday, a RED camera. Regards from Moscow.
I have C200 for 3 months now. 4k came into play very-very occasional :) Same goes for touch screen AF.
Thanks Caleb. Rather than broadcast or grading requirements, my concerns with the 8 bit images would be banding, which I see in my C100 mk2 footage when I use a soft spotlight falling into shadow on interview backgrounds. Do you think the higher data rate in the C200 helps with this?
Great review, very interesting to hear your thoughts now that you are now a Red as well as a Canon user. Very succinct summary of the pros and cons of this camera...
Just to clarify. I get 16 minutes (at 23.98 in Raw mode) with a 128 gig CFast card. So Caleb your 256 card should give you 32 minutes. You negatives overwhelm the fact that this camera is great a specific things. Similar to a RED - it has it's purpose but it's not great for everything. It's just a tool.
Also - the Raw files are supported in Media Composer already. IMHO you still need to use the Canon software to export/convert before editing.
Great review as always! I love the idea of the C200, but for me there's too much downside, all of which you thoughtfully listed.
Jim Fleming, Beacon Street Productions Thanks for the kind words Jim. I appreciate you taking the time to comment.
Very good review bud. I am Canon C 300 and Canon 5D Mark IV user...and I just ordered the Panasonic Eva1. I am tired of Canon short changing us. I love the canon color, and the C 300 is perfect for 1080P shooting and low light, but the fact that I can't shoot 60P, that was limiting me. 5D Mark IV shoots nice 60P but it doesn't hold up as well in low light as the C300. I am hoping the Panasonic will shoot well in low light. I am really going to miss the autofocus of Canon, but I guess I can't have everything. Buying the Panasonic is future proofing a bit for few years, vs the C 200 is going backwards. What's your opinion between Red Vs Arri Mini? Have you used both...any difference in image, color? Thank again for a great review.
Solid review. I really appreciate the depth, too, those points about color space were eye-opening. While I'm going to be shooting primarily in 1080 for clients, I'm extremely interested in the 4K primarily for future short film projects. Unfortunately the compression on the C200 and C-Fast usage is a deal breaker for me. I would not buy the 256GB C-Fast because I like to be able to transfer footage on a 32GB, 64GB or 128GB card while I'm recording with another; plus the pain is lessened in the case of card failure.
But, I'm a Canon guy and I use only Canon EF L series lenses. After this video, I'm thinking I should just go with the C100 II and 'earn' my way up to C700.
Yes, Red allow to change the "software ISO" in post. But it not increases the real gain of sensor like it is done in Canon.
Splendid review. Loved it. My biggest takeaway: Slow-motion with no internal sound and no auto-focus. Certainly will be a consideration in my choice for an action cam. Thanks
Yeah, I don't understand why it could keep autofocusing in that mode.
Great review. I am very close to purchasing a c200.
I currently shoot on a7sii. Wanting to step it up a notch. Love the canon raw image, have a feeling I’ll end up using the 8bit option due to workflow though. Are the red raw file sizes smaller and easier to work with? Which red is around the right price point for me ?
spot on! thank you for the review, very help full.
So the C200 or the C100 MK2…worth it considering the price difference between the two(used)
Thanks for this Caleb! I was so inbetween the C200 and UM4.6k...the only advantage to me was the autofocus on the C200. I'm super happy I went the 4.6k, so many "cons" on the C200. Seems great, but Canon never gives you everything, it always feels like they're handcuffing you unless you go to the C300ii. Price a little much for what is here. Anyways keep up the great work!
Noir Et Blanc Vie Thank you for the kind words. And great to hear that the Ursa Mini is treating you well so far. ✌🏽
Caleb Wojcik oh, and even though I chose the UM, I have to be honest and say this is the most comprehensive, real world use video of the C200 I've seen, and I watched as many as I could. It's also coming from the right person who has used the Canon Cinema Series for quite a while, if I still had a purchase to make your opinion would have weighed heavily on me! So yeah, cheers, always love your POV on things!
Noir Et Blanc Vie
Hello, are you still happy with your decision for going with um4.6k?
I am so confused as my heart says UMP and head says c200 specially now in June 2018.
What would you advice?
I want it for events, corporates and narrative films.
Cheers.
Go for C200. By UMP owner.
I would love to see a video comparing the GH5s to your RED Scarlet-W. I know the obvious, but I feel it's a review worth doing and one people would watch. Compare GH5s's waveform to RED's false color; Panasonic's HDR video to RED's HDRx; 400Mbps to variable bit rate/ 6:1, 8:1, 10:1 compression; GH5s best vs .R3D & ProRes 422/444, etc. I love using RED cameras, but only when the project budget can afford them. Thanks!
Thanks for the great review! I am thinking of having my C200 too. Any idea of how many hours can I shoot with the battery ( sd card 2k, for a documentary ) ?
Excellent footage 👍🏻😀 i like the C200, maybe my next cam 😊
Very thorough review, thanks for posting (btw is the lip-sync ever so slightly off?).
microbroadcast I’ve noticed my last couple RED videos being maybe a frame or two off after exporting and uploading. Not sure what’s going on with that.
Amazing video. THANK YOU, Caleb!
Thanks for this review. Before I watched this, I had assumed the C200 could simply out a RAW 4:2:2 10bit signal to an external recorder, making the 5min/64Gb a mute point. This feels like it is intentional from Canon. Maybe when the C300 mark iii comes out, with faster processors, Canon will rectify this obvious flaw. As far as only one operational SDI/HDMI at a time, can't you just run one to a recorder, then output another one from the recorder to video village? Or can you wifi a real-time signal to an iPad?
Great review - as a C100 M2 owner I had highly anticipated this camera and was disappointed in this model - expensive and too many limitations.
Great review, very informative, thank you very much.
You're welcome!
Damn Canon, I waited long time for Canon c100mk 3 and they release this as soon as I bought the SONY FS5...
My C200 died yesterday. I had a shoot and the camera didn't turn on. Fan came on and SD card light came on but no EVF or LCD. After a while of problem solving the LCD came on and started blinking and the whole screen turned green. Today the camera will not turn on at all. Lucky I was able to use my 80D.
That's rough. Have you got a solution from Canon yet?
I'm a little late to the party but do you have any footage from both the 100mkII and 200 that we could see just to see the difference in image resolving? Preferably in a controlled environment with fixed lighting and lenses - seen too many "tests" with variable lighting, lenses, settings and subjects. And to level the playing field, could you shoot C100mkii in 1080, then C200 in 1080 and in 4k (in both MP4 and raw) downscaled in the NLE to a 1080 timeline? If you have a vimeo to upload the footage to as well that would be amazing. I know it's a lot to ask and not very relevant at this time but others may find it useful potentially and it'll be good to see a more accurate test. Cheers and thank you for an in-depth review!
I clicked on this video cuz I saw the spartan on your hat. Go green! cool to see film making peeps from state.
Man on the real Caleb you deserve 1M subs this instance. This channel is lit!
+Channel 8 Workin’ on it. One at a time. :)
Awesome review Caleb! Quick question. You mentioned autofocus do not work when in slow motion mode. Do that still count for regular mode but filmed at 60fps? Also do the c100 mk2 color match easily with the c200? Sorry I'm fairly new with log profiles. If both camera was using the same log profiles, would the color match the same? Thanks!
Anyone can help me out here? :)
Great review. thanks!
Good honest review. Many thanks.
So you mentioned that you can't use auto focus during slow motion recording, but currently on my C100 MKII I never record in "slow motion" but rather shoot 60p and slow it down in post. Am I still able to shoot 60p and use auto focus on the c200? For me, that's all I would need.
How does the C200s 1080 footage compare to your C100 mkii? I hear the C100 footage is actually sharper in mp4 mode vs AVCHD. If this is the case, does transcoding 4K footage to 1080 make it much sharper?
I’m trying to get a good answer on which Manfrotto head is a good solid choice for my C100mkii. Will the cheap 500 head work fine? Looking to grab 2 but eventually 3
Great review - thank you!
Can't the touchscreen be mounted OFF of the camera itself (separate small tripod or other support) to avoid any camera shake when touching focus point?
Great review. Im interested in the workflow w/ your editor that you mentioned. With the c100 mkii, you record in which formats and which format do you send to the editor and why? I film with a c100 and just send the editor the files via a hard drive. Just checking to see if there is a better way of doing it. Thanks
+Abu Bah On large shoots I send hard drives. For sure. But on smaller shoots or fast turnaround projects I will shoot proxy files to the 2nd SD or make them in Premiere. Then just share those with him via Dropbox. Does that help?
i think, 10bit and 12bit has a lot to do, not only for broadcast etc...
a long time passed since that review, and I saw you told you got a Red Scarlet... Could you tell me what you would prefer to make shorts movies... Canon or RED?
Amazing review, thanks
There is no AF in 60p? I thought it was only in 120p that it did not work? Or does the touch screen focus not work in 60p?
I love my C100's, I have a mark 1 and 2. I do wish it had 4k so i could crop in, in post. Having to use the Canon STM lenses instead of my Sigma Art, as I shoot all run n gun with a shotgun mic and you can hear the non STM lenses auto focusing unfortunately.
I am buying this and the C300 Mark 2
Hey i have a quick question? Can you use the side handle from the c100 with the c200?
Canon could of simply offered a paid upgrade for the c100 mk ii, and been done. That is one reason Sony, and Red have the market investing in their cams because of their customer service. The market seems to be filled with cams that offer more bang for your buck at this price point. Don't get me wrong, Im a canon shooter, and have been for quite a while now, but this gets to me sometimes how they don't invest in loyal people that already have purchased 6000-14000 cams from them. For this price I would be trying to future proof my gear and look at cams that at least have 10-bit/12 bit capabilities even if I dont use them often. I'll wait for the c500 mkii or upgrade to a Red in the future i guess. I like Canon color science, but we spend so much time investing in gear and not knowledge at times. Im very guilty of that, and this was a wake call for me. Thanks Caleb for investing your time and money to do this review.
Excellent video, thanks,
thankful for the details!!
Thank you for the awesome review.
Can you shoot slow motion in cl-raw? 60fps or 120fps
Thank you!
+Stefan Sago I believe so, yes.
Think I'll stick with the GH5 and perhaps move to the EVA-1 next, this just has too many drawbacks for the investment
The video image changes around 2:41... What was that showing? What change is being shown here? It says "Shot by C200" throughout both changes so I'm confused. Are those two different cameras? ...what happened to show that visual difference?
Canon Log footage first, then graded.
I didn't know you could record proxy files to the one of the slots on the C100 Mk2...
Yep! Works great.
Caleb Wojcik - how do you set it up?
Lovin' your work!
What's the rolling shutter like in 4K?
Thanks for this !
you mentioned canon c200b being compatible with an external monitor..is the touch autofocus still compatible while using an external monitor either on the c200b or c200 stripped down and the screen replaced with something like an atomos ninja inferno
No, the touchscreen feature would not carry over to an external monitor like an Atomos.
How does this compare to the Panasonic EVA1?
Nice review thanks but I just don't get it - you say forget recording raw because it cost a fortune on cards - but on the same hand the SD cards are almost worthless as well because your locked at such a low rez- hey its 2017 why would anyone come out with a camera that won't at least record 10 bit. It appears as if your stepping back rather than forward!
Hello, The c200 have loud fan noise? how is the noise?
Thanks for the review. Do you think the C100 Mark II is good as b-cam for the c300 Mark II?
I am coming from the Sony environment and haven´t workes with the Cine EOS line from Canon.. The Docu has to be shot with the C300 Mark IIin 4k as A-Cam, and I wanted to buy a B-Cam. What´s your take?
+Mata Hari Yes, the c100 II would be a solid b-cam, but you’re only going to get 1080p and less autofocus features. I’d go with a c200 as a B.
Thanks. I have seen your encouraging review of the C100 Mark II. Have you ever tried to scale up the 1080p footage of the C100 to 4k?
C200 great,- but the pricetag is harsh for me.
I gotta meditate about it.
Yeah, it holds up well upscaled to 4K since the sensor is 4K, it just doesn't record in that.
You can record 4 independent audio tracks? It's not 2 tracks with 2 safety tracks?
I believe 2 of the tracks are the XLR ports & the other 2 are the 3.5mm or the on-board scratch audio.
Amazing review.
Hell yeah that ltt shout out
great review
Very usefull, tanx!
I've never been a fan of Canon's line due to restrictive codecs and frame rates, but this seems the goods. Still can't justify the price tag over an Ursa Mini 4.6k Pro though
Carousel Visual Media If you are only going to get one camera that would be a hard choice for me, but since I have other Canon cameras I try to stay within the same color science. Haven’t used the Ursa Mini Pro outside of NAB at all though, so I can’t speak to it.
I've always loved Canon colour but the lack of codecs, frame rates and relative high price has always been a deal breaker for me. I am pretty heavily invested in the Sony Alpha line but looking to make the leap from hybrid. This review has definitely made me reconsider Canon though.
Carousel Visual Media from an UM4.6k you absolutely can't go wrong for the price. I love mine, minus the AF and viewfinder the UM wins in my book. I got mine used for $4300...just a steal, I didn't even need the UMpro...I love the SDI ports, it's got 2, it's just fantastic. C200, yeah I'm good on limited codecs and that soft ass 120fps HD, meh.
Great great video Caleb. To much content. Thank you very much.
You're welcome RIcardo.
Caleb Wojcik After see your first review of the c100 MKII I Just bought my onde and I só happy with that.
It's such a shame that the amount of data needed to shoot RAW seems to eliminate that as a possibility entirely. To use it practically adds several hundred dollars to the actual price, on top of the added inconvenience of juggling all that size. It makes me wonder who the hell the option is even for.
If it possible to use C200 monitor with c300M2? (for using on screen tap autofocus)
Vladimir yes, they updated the firmware for c300m2. The monitor and cable cost 920$
So this thing doesn't do 10/12 bit even with external recording?
From Canon's site: "In addition to the internal recording, the EOS C200 can output either 1920x1080 YCC 4:2:2 10-bit over the HD-SDI Terminal, or 3840x2160 4:2:0 8-bit over the HDMI."
Best review on c200!
Thank you!
8-bit and 10-bit, 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 - they're just numbers? Really?
For most people I'd argue that they are just numbers. If you know what they actually mean and can tell the difference then you should worry about it, but in general if you're just publishing to UA-cam or Vimeo they are compressing your files so much the viewer won't be able to tell the difference.
I wouldn't say that 10bit is just necessary for broadcasting. I shoot with my sony a6500 in a log profile. In color correction, the image falls apart pretty quickly, especially noticeable in the skin tones. In my opinion 10bit color is more important than resolution and I don't know, why canon didn't implement a 1080p 10bit codec, like in the sony FS5 mii. Otherwise very great video, got a new sub :)
If you're doing a chroma key, then 4:2:2 is preferred, 4:2:0 gives you bad edges at the same res.