SNES Limit Pushers That Do The Impossible - Technical Deep Dive
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- Опубліковано 23 тра 2024
- No sponsorship this time, but hey why not support me on patreon:
/ sharopolis
The SNES, again. Nintendo's 16-bit giant had a lot of impressive games and I'm going to take a look at a few that really push the system and seems to make it do the impossible. Games that do things the SNES shouldn't be able to do.
00:00 Intro
00:30 Axelay
05:56 Jim Power: The Lost Dimension in 3-D
11:15 Onizuka Katsuya Super Virtual Boxing
14:39 The Adventures of Batman And Robin
20:37 Ending waffle and Patreon Thanks - Ігри
My favorite thing about these videos is you go in depth about how it is done, not just showing the effects. That is what sets your channel above the rest.
I agree. Thats’s what caught my attention as well.
His content is addicting, can’t wait for each new upload honestly!
Fully agreed. Sharopolis deserves to have a lot more subscribers.
@@nicksalvatore5717 I’m just about there for sure. Been marathoning and I’m nearing the depressing hard stop after I run out of content.
I was blown away that you actually went in and changed he code to show how the game would look without a mechanic. Friggin awesome.
I love it when developers find creatives ways of using the hardware and beat it's limitations.
Yep,and remember limitations leads to creations😁
That's why I feel retro gaming and games from back then still holds up because devs and programmers were doing alot with what they can do with limited tech and they were also taking chances and creative risk which you don't find now a days with Modern gaming despite the advancement of tech with these newer consoles.
Could you take a look at the SNES version of The Lawnmower Man sometime? I'd love to know how the VR sections were made in that game!
but ..hello u..😁...
All Hail the Bundy. The not the serial killer one.
It's interesting that the game exists for Megadrive too. It's very similar to the SNES version, even without mode 7 effects.
Hey console wars recently covered that one Larry.
@@greensun1334 The Game Boy version also has some cool pseudo "3D" effects
I am endlessly in awe of what devs managed to pull off on classic hardware.
The SNES can make the Neo Geo look like a dinosaur with its transparent sprites/ backgrounds. Ive never seen the Neo pull it off
Your windowing explanation for the last example wasn't completely correct. The SNES had two windows, each with a start and end horizontal position. They can be thought of as two independent horizontal segments (which can be placed anywhere horizontally on the screen). Then the two windows are combined using some logical operation (such as OR - union, or AND - intersection). You can see a few scanlines where there are two skewed horizontal components on the same scanline, where each is likely specified by a different window (combined using logical OR). Each scanline, the HDMA changes the start and end coordinates of both windows to create the skewed effect (it could be from a look up table, or algorithmically determined).
As for everything else, very cool. All of these effects were very clever and the explanation here really helped demonstrate that.
Thanks for that! I thought there might be a bit more to it than what I had worked out. I found the subroutine that was setting up the windows and I could see that there were two, but I couldn't quite figure out why.
@@Sharopolis Yep, so that's why there were two. Retro Game Mechanics Explained has a few detailed explanations on how those features worked "Color Math - Super Nintendo Entertainment System Features Pt. 03b" has info on the windowing, but it's also very dense (I've watched it many times and still don't fully understand the blending path).
Anyway, regardless of technical explanations of the hardware, seeing how the hardware was used in specific instances (with emulator debug views) really helps tie it all together (I never would have thought that the windowing could be used for that sort of effect, or that mode 7 could be used for the blimp windows for example).
For Mode 7 games, I'd strongly recommend this BSNES fork "BSNES HD Mode 7." It upscales the Mode 7 part of the screen to the multiple of 224 you set so as to not make the rotation, skewing, or any other transformations look pixelated the way it does in other emulators. It can even display Mode 7 games in widescreen, and there's a great patch for Super Mario World that makes the game display properly on a 16:10 screen (without pixel correction) or 16:9 (with pixel correction). Since discovering that emulator, I've never gone back to the original version (the hack only works properly in BSNES HD Mode 7).
I think Wolfenstein 3D on the SNES has to be one of the best games when it comes to doing things that make you go "I didn't know the SNES can do that"
I didn't knew about that boxing game, really cool!
There's another game with similar effect, Shien's Revenge. All boss battles in this game takes place in a open world using sprites and HDMA backgrounds with scrolling. The bosses itself are the Mode 7 layer.
I wish they didn't used the mosaic effect each time you hurt him, tho.
I was about to tell you about Gambare Goemon, then you just mentioned later. lol
Konami was the king on SNES, so much impressive games. Axelay not only uses mode 1 for vertical/horizontal levels, but also mode 2 in the second stage to create giant moving platforms and actual mode 7 in the robot boss battle.
Great video!
I'm considering games that push my wife's patience to the limit
Excellent, entertaining, educational, extraordinary! Your passion and your brilliance compliment each other perfectly. Great video!
Love this series and finding out games that push the limits. Some games surprise me, when they don't necessarily look like they're pushing the limits
The mech battles in the Goemon games were insanly impressive back in the day.
I was kinda hoping this video would end with Yoshi's Island saying "oh that's just SuperFX lulz" 😂
The Mode 7 and background colour effects observed in _Jim Power: The Lost Dimension in 3-D_ can also be seen in _Ganbare Goemon 2: Kiteretsu Shōgun Magginesu,_ _Ganbare Goemon 3: Shishijūrokube no Karakuri Manji Gatame_ and _Ganbare Goemon Kirakira Dōchū: Boku ga Dancer ni Natta Wake._
And yes, I do look forward to watching your video on these games.
3:17 Sonic 3D also does this during bonus stages, albeit without the "fog" color changes.
Really great content as usual. Love these breakdowns of the tech details
Aw yeah, please do talk about the Geomon 2 and 3 on Super Famicom. They're excellent.
Your videos are always so entertaining, yet informative. Keep at it :)
Nothing I love more than "how did the SNES do this?" videos and this one DELIVERS! Cheers on a great vid!
So much interesting stuff on your channel! Hoping for more frequent content, but just subbed. Cheers.
Nice video!
About Axelay using hdma instead of mode 7:
Mode 7 also relies on hdma, if you want to do anything else than scaling and rotation (or shearing - affine transformations work without hdma).
So Mario Kart for instance needs to use hdma 7 each scanline to turn mode 7 into a ground plane with perspective.
I would just say that Axelay use similar tricks as Mario Kart, but with mode 1 as you said, where you can still change the offset from line to line, but you can't do any scaling or rotation within the line.
Another cracking video with lots if information on how the effects were achieved
Mode 7, HDMA, color blending, windowing - It's astounding just how many unique features the SNES/SFC had. I'm surprised that some of these weren't even seen in more powerful/expensive arcade boards
You are right even Capcom's CPS2 and CPS3 arcade hardware lacked transparency.
@Lucas. It's true, it achieved so many of the SNES' distinctive graphical characteristics.
Please give us more SNES stuff. I learn so much amazing stuff from your videos. Bravo sir. Bravo!
This was, again, a wonderful video. Thoughtfully informative and entertaining. Thank you so much for producing such quality content. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
And I definitely want to see a video about Ganbare Goemon 3.
Devs in 1993:
- Here, boss, I have this weird idea but there are technical limitations.
- Don't worry, we'll figure it out. Let's have a meeting with the programmer team.
Devs in 2022:
- Here, boss, I have this weird idea but there are technical limitations.
- Don't worry, we'll fix it on post. Please tell me the ingame store is working as intended though.
Oh man, I remember my Dad buying me Jim Power and the weird reversed scrolling backgrounds just made me feel ill. I tried and tried but just couldn't play it without feeling like I needed to vomit.
Batman punching while falling looks like one of those tiktoks of a dog paddling over a bath
2 videos in a week! I feel spoilt! It's always nice to learn how the SNES does things!
Thanks!
Damn, forgot Axelay. Always fun to remember games in the dusty corner of ones memory.
that’s a huge yes on a ganbare goemon video! i can’t get enough of these limit-pusher breakdowns :)
You will have a hundred thousand subscribers within three months. I wouldn't be surprised if you hit 1M within 24 months.
Keep up the great work. Loving your content. I've been a developer and grew up with these games.
The SNES was able to do graphic feats that we didn't see in most arcade games of it's time. I wasn't aware that Axelay was done by the Treasure team before they formed the company, they were masters of doing the impossible with 2D graphics.
I always pronounced Axelay "Axel-ay" like you did, but looking at the katakana, it seems like they were going for "Axe-lay".
Maybe a play on "X-Ray", like your ship is a ray that pierces through stuff, except it's an Axe Ray because that's cooler? Who knows?
If I haven't mentioned it already, I've really been enjoying your videos like this: the brilliant combination of not just showing off games with fancy techniques (some of which I'd never heard of), but showing/explaining the details of _how_ this was all done as well! With some wry, self-aware humour in the mix, of course.
Axelay has been used in countless videos as a example of mode 7. Corrections must be made Lol thank you for clearing that up
This needs a follow up. Suggestions:
Earthworm Jim 2 - "Puppy Love" stages move incredibly well in perspective - there got to be some trickery in it.
Donkey Kong Country 2 - Lockjaw's locker stages seem to use horizontal direct memory access for scaling a horizontal plane both sideways as well as vertically.
Great video. I love this topic and that batman game is especially imipressive
Fantastic analysis, thank you!
I definitely "like that kind of thing", to put it your way.
Great video, thanks for all information
Awesome video. :) I would love to see more Goemon.
I like how the video is built up in a way where you can guess exactly what combinations of techniques are used for the falling batman windows
Fascinating video. Thank you.
Correction: MODE 7 does have 2 backgrounds, just one is 8bpp (The mode 7 part) and one is 7bpp (The highest bit is the priority)
Yes, activating the EXTBG bit makes Mode 7 a 2-background mode. But not having different scroll registers for each layer was a bummer, both need to move/rotate/scale the exact same way... that's why no one considers Mode 7 to be 2 layers.
At least you can enable high priority for each pixel on layer 2, making scenes like the giant mouth in Super Turrican 2 possible.
6:39 you can just squint in one eye and it will produce the same effect
another great video! greetings from Brazil!
Rendering Ranger and Super Turrican 2 are probably the two most technically impressive SNES games ever made.
Really nice though. Great job!
Great video!
What about Art of Fighting's simulated player scaling? (And Fatal Fury Special also...yes, Fatal Fury Special on the snes use the same technique)
Love this videos, great work
The SNES is really an amazing system. I play mine often. Hard to pick a favorite gm maybe
Top Gear 3000?
Curious not to see a single example of colour cycling - encoding several different reduced-colour images into the same tile and then using a palette swap to reveal them.
Jim power, also know as: "are you aware that scrolling backgrounds in different directions can make people nauseous?"
Btw sonic 3d blast on genny also uses the same trick as axeley
Okay I have to get this off my chest XD I never liked Axelay's "rolling cylinder" fake perspective effect. At the time, I never understood why they would resort to such a rudimentary attempt at 3D when the SNES Mode 7 was so well established. Being in highschool at the time, I was able to rationalise that perhaps the developers for Axelay just weren't as familiar with the SNES hardware as other teams and went for a more generic approach that was more familiar to them from programming other consoles. It's only right now, after watching your video, that I realise it's so they could have parallax scrolling! So I can see the justification. But it just always looked like a "rolling cylinder" to me, and just looked odd.
I never knew the numbers in Mario Kart were drawn with the window clipping feature! Amazing...
Also amazing, that 3D floor in the boxing game, done with the window clipping feature. This effect probably took ages to make, and probably didn't get as much of a reaction from the public proportionate to the amount of work that went into it...
Yes please make another video about Goemon!
03:27 I think Kirby's Dream Course uses this HDMA effect as well for the level select background, although it's used in a subtler way.
Since you like shmups and this sort of thing, I hope at some point you get into some of the mode 7 and pseudo mode 7 effects in R-TYPE III, which to this day blows my mind with how beautiful it is, from the Title screen to the weapon select to the intro to the first stage and nearly every stage (and boss) afterward. It's really heavy on rotation, subtle perspective shifts and layer shuffling (and perhaps necessarily, in some places, slow-down).
One of the reasons Jim Power is ridiculously difficult, apart of the one hit deaths (and the horrendous 1 litter drops of water that kills you, making us wondering why this hero is weaker than paper) is that the Amiga version, which I think is the original has a much wider horizontal resolution, so you can see dangers like enemies coming from afar and react accordingly, but still, a bad design overall. The re-releases from Steam added 3 hit points to compensate for the Genesis and I believe the SNES version too, so that's another reason even the devs know they screwed up back then.
Another great video!!!!
An inspiration to software/hardware nerds everywhere
You know a feature is bad when removing it can legitimately be considered an enhancement.
Here's a video idea: Games that broke their respective systems. Kinda like limit pushers, but doing so by exclusively using unintended features of the consoles/computers, i.e. no expansion chips or using obscure, but documented APIs, only glitches.
That's a really good idea!
@@Sharopolis Thank you!
If I understand HDMA as you’ve explained it, basically everything the Atari 2600 does beyond play pong is enabled by it being the only method of programming. Racing The Beam as they say
Very interesting stuff
Funny thing is, this Axelay Horizotal line direct access has been done on a NES by a friend of mine that succeded on making a short Axelay port on NES to show that this was not mode 7.
It does matter who says it how many times. People are always going to say that the vertical levels of Axelay are mode 7
Cool stuff.
I quite like your waffling intros.
I would very much like to try HDMA in pill form. It would surely make you see everything in Mode 7 style graphics. Trippy!
Yay woooooooo, up late watching your awesome vids, yeeeeeeee! Nice voice btw, damn you are into this stuff, nice! :D Yeeeeeeee
Thanks!
@@Sharopolis 👋😁👍
hello I like enjoying watching your channel I do hope you do the episode of of the goemon series great episode you just did keep up the great work look forward to watching more of your content very soon
Would you consider taking a look at the title screen of Jimmy Connors Pro Tennis? There are two objects seemingly using mode 7 at the same time. I always thought it had something to do with the long pause/loading time just before that - but maybe it's just way simpler.
There's an effect I've seen on the SNES but I can't figure out what's going on with it, wondering if you or anyone else here can help. This is specifically the Endor speeder bike level in Super Return of the Jedi. It looks mode 7-ish, but I know it's not actually mode 7 (the game uses mode 7 in other levels, but not that one). Some kind of other technical wizardry is going on to create the effect seen in that level but I can't figure out what it is.
Random little observation about Axelay, if I use a save state on my SD2SNES it for some reason disables/breaks the horizon curve and just makes the game look like a normal vertical shooter.
Amazing
we had that H scan line hook on PC too
i mean if the SNES is having such mechanic implemented in it's video ship then it's not impossible
Brilliant.
The Parallax on the Lost Dimension is inverted. a parallax becomes slower there more it goes into the back. any mention somewhere why they inverted the parallex? o.O was it supposed to mimic a circular path walk?
I know this request is quite specific and focused on just one specific part of a game but is their any way you could explain to me how the heck Compile pulled off the first level boss of Space Megaforce? There is a background as well as a large boss character, yet there is a spherical part of the boss that moves around the screen during phase 2 of its' attack with full rotation. Does this mean that both the background AND the main body of the boss are in fact constructed completely of sprites and the lone tile layer is in the rotating object? Did they somehow program in sprite rotation with enough efficiency to actually pull it off smoothly? How is this being done? I'd really like to know.
Good video. I can’t understand why it’s HDMA but not Es En Ee Es though.
So many Goemon games are amazing - absolutely talk about GG3, please!
Once again, you've put together just a super entertaining, super fascinating "highlight reel" of over-achieving games here. These limit pushing videos are awesome!
Thank you very much! I love the Goemon games and I really want to play through the 3rd SNES one properly just for myself and then make a video about it I hope. It looks so amazing and I don't want to just Game Genie my way though it to capture footage as I often do.
@@Sharopolis I too have to get to that one properly. I've played a bit of it, as well as the fourth SFC one, but mostly just muddling my way through the Japanese versions as far as I can. I've recently picked up a SNES reproduction cart for the English fan translation of the second one ("The Mysterious General McGuinness") and have been enjoying going through that one while actually understanding it, lol. Definitely will have to get to the 3rd one later in the year.
Vertical partial mode 7 can be done.
Tilt your head 😉
It's weird isn't it, Astelay looks so wonderful (and the side scrolling scenes DO use mode seven and look incredible in HD), but I always thought it was a total dud to play. I am not with the popular opinion on that one!
i would love to watch your videos on Odysee, your channel is one of few missing there and I can completely abandon YT :)
Dragon View? It is really a feat too.
13:30 But it this case they're cutting that shape out of purely the main background colour [and even changing the colour too] rather than cutting it out of any actual background layer, right?
Also, I wonder if they could have jumped the crowed sprites into the gap between them every other frame to make the arena look even more packed (would need to turn up the brightness on their art slightly as the effect would technically make them look semi-transparent, which would look fine with them being in the distance and in shadow anyway), similar to how the stars are done on the Super Metroid intro to make the scene actually look like there's more of them in the background than there is in reality: ua-cam.com/video/yH8uLHjGbco/v-deo.html (if you pause the game you can see only half the stars are ever shown each frame)
Difinitely amezing ,but i winder how wolf 3D was done on snes,does it uses raycasting & sprite scaling trough software ? Or does it make use of made 7?
Also am curious how yoshi safari was done,maybe it also uses a combination of mode7 among other modes by using the scanline trick,and maybe they used sprite scaling trough software as well because if you gonna use multiple sprite sizes,that will take aloooot of memory space,wich was expensive back then.
Wolf 3D does use Mode 7, but only to zooms in the raycasting image. That's why is super blocky.
There's no sprite scalling in Yoshi's Safari, the enemies are all pre-drawn in several sizes.
@@maxwelseven well if all sprites in yoshy safari i wonder why nintendo did not use software sprite scaling instead to save on memory same problem with mario kart,in fact since memory was so expensive in back then,i don’t understand why nintendo didn’t implemented sprite scaling in the first place,sure nintendo could,ve used a super fx chip in those games instead to save on memory space that way BUT that fx chip would,ve also added extra costs to it so that wouldn’t make sense anyway.
Note; that the gba does supoort sprite scaling right out of the box but at that time memory was already cheaper so you would actually expect it the other way around,isn’t it?
@@johneygd yeah, it's all about costs. I remember reading about Shigeru Miyamoto wishing a sprite scalling feature during Pilotwings development, and this game was in development since 1989 (or even earlier).
The Super FX was the answer for this problem, but because of the 3D craziness of that time, it wasn't used much for sprite scalling.
So HDMA is similar to COPPER on the Amiga yes ?
The most stupid trick I ever seen pulled on on SNES is on Kyle Petty's No Fear Racing. It's amazing out of the box thinking.
Wow that is a weird one! I've not seen that one before, I'll have to take a look at that in more detail.
Unpopular opinion: The SNES would have been better without Mode 7. Too many game had scenes that took us out of the game to scream “look at us; we are using mode 7.”
Remember when they would strive to out do each other in game design?
Impossible to watch the whole video in one take. (Isnt it?)
As someone who has actually played Jim Power on the SNES (and as of today, that is the _only_ game that I have played on an actual SNES), I can tell you that the audio in your video is going _way_ too slow. Did you intentionally slow the game down? Are you running an NTSC ROM in a PAL emulation?
👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 🍀
Yes it's possible
I've been watching many videos from this channel recently, they are very interesting and well done, but as an Italian always trying to enhance my English skills, a curiosity was in my mind all the time. What accent is this? It's peculiar to me
Absolutely no offense intended, that's a serious question
No problem at all! I get quite a lot of comments about my accent, even from British people because it is quite distinctive. I've a pretty typical north western English accent, I grew up in a place called Burnley in the county of Lancashire.
I have to say that my accent in real life is probably much stronger than what you hear in my videos. People who know me are surprised when they hear my 'posh' voice on UA-cam.
Are you playing this on a European rom? The music,speed,and sound effects sound way off
The music, speed and sound are correct! The look of the AmeriSNES now that’s way off!
@@SproutyPottedPlant What exactly are you trying to say? Because I heard Chris Hülsbeck's Jim Power music going _way_ too slow.
No Bahamut Lagoon?
someone should make a smw hack where it pushes the limits
Limit pusher go trrtrrskrrt
look up doom for snes