It's amazing that such an important subject in such a well-done video has very few views. This shows me that the table tennis community does not see the shoe selection process as a high priority item. Thank you for this review. My top priority in selecting the shoe is its stability and its ability to minimize the possibility of twists and strains. To minimize that even further, I even thought of getting basketball shoes due to their high tops hoping that tops will prevent and wrists. I could not test this theory simply because not a single table tennis athlete I'm come across who wear high tops. Your comments would be appreciated a lot if you can shed some light on the issue of high-tops and ankle injury protection at the expense of some performance.
Thank you Haluk Karamete. There are a number of brief reviews on websites but as you say, little to any real in depth reviews for table tennis shoes. I've written to members of Asics Board simply because although they make excellent table tennis shoes, they don't market them on their own website as table tennis shoes. Crazy when you think of the market share in China alone that goes untapped. It may have something to do with the fact that people say that Asics make shoes for other table tennis "makers" such as Butterfly and so don't want to infringe on any possible arrangement they have for making these shoes for others. I don't know. Regarding your comment about twists, the Gel Hunter 2 have now been retired because their soles became to hard and slippy. I've made a follow up video about this. And, I've moved more to minimalist or "barefoot" shoes for day to day wear as I've found them better for my hip and knees. Because they have zero drop (heel to toe), they are flat and they tend to have wider toe boxes to allow the feet to spread out rather than being cramped. That alone I find gives them much better lateral support because they are so flat. Throw in the fact that these types of shoes promote strength in the foot area because the foot nolonger relies on things like arch support to get lazy, or suffer from heel strikes which occur with cushioned raised shoes and I'm finding I'm physically better balanced and stronger which reduces the risk of ankle twists. The downside is there's no / very little protection against the pounding the knees, hips and ankles take from sidestepping, or lunging on hard floors when playing table tennis. Sometimes in an attempt to reach the ball the idea of using the ball of the foot to land on becomes secondary to simply getting to the ball which can in turn result in heel strikes. To answer your question then, hand ball shoes I've found to be useful. Basket ball shoes whilst being higher, I do think will impinge on the ability of the foot to flex and bend like I'd personally want to feel they can do. So I'm going down a different route, focusing more on flatter shoes to aid stability rather than taller shoes to increase rigidity in the ankle area. I've considered Inov8 bare xf 210 v3 trainers and some New Balance Minmus trainers. I've contracted Vivobarefoot and asked them and they suggested GeoCourt 2's but I'm not convinced the person on their customer service team that answered my query understands table tennis movement. Xerpshoes are another brand I've considered but it's an expensive experiment as none of these shoes are cheap. In terms of table tennis shoes, Butterfly Lezoline Zero shoes may meet my needs or I'll simply go back to Asics and try their Rocket shoe. Undecided at the moment, what I do know though is that for me, I'll not be going down the basket ball shoe route. This topic discussion on the OOAK Table Tennis Forum may help you ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18119
@@PathfinderPro1 Thank for this excellent and thoughtful reply and the love and care you put in into TT. Flat shoes is a very good idea, I will definitely pay attention to this angle and be more selective in this regard. This weekend, I've injured myself ( and made a 10 sec video about it in slow motion ua-cam.com/video/V0QUNIe8iko/v-deo.html ) to understand what went wrong here and what caused it. Please take a look, would you? As far as I can see, no shoe could have prevented this, would you agree? I think it is all about being in the wrong position, and then trying to recover from that wrong position causing an awkward move. And unless I pay attention to this wrong playing style ( that is doing a BH from the FH side ). this can happen again. But, I'd like to know your thoughts on this , if you could shed some light when you have time, I will be all ears. Again, thank you so much for all of your detailed reviews and helping people realize that there is a science behind table tennis.
Firstly, "ouch' that looked painful. Ankle ligaments? I've done that a few times but for me it's because I went over on my ankle badly as a teenager which caused some damage and a weakness in my ankle to that type of movement. It could also be caused by your shoes actually gripping the surface too well and getting "stuck". The floor and hall look purpose built for table tennis so the environment didn't look too be the cause.. As a coach, I notice you favour your BH even from your FH side and you get very side on rather than square. You also stand tall rather than have a wider base of support / lower centre of gravity which would help with your stability and balance. Because of that when stepping back you seem to be putting a twisting motion on that left lower leg/foot. That's a lot of strain around that able joint I'm sure there are people trained in bio mechanics and far better qualified to comment on your injury, it's cause and how to avoid it in the future than me. And I'm not medically trained. Looking at the video the question I would ask you is do you seek to identify the cause and rectify that (technique) or accept your style may always put you at risk of this type of injury and try and mitigate the damage when it happens - increasing lateral support or ankle support through choice of footwear? That's a choice only you can make 🙂
@ Haluk Karamete, I've read the description you have done for your video and your reply to one of the comments you've had where I think you list 5 options. It seems you have given this a lot of thought already and pretty much know the answer yourself. The only things I'd add are 1. To embed the correct movement technique in my experience can be difficult with players who already may have "bad habits". Even with the best will in the world players resort to what they know best when under pressure. Your immediate reactions when you are focusing on the ball in a tight or important point in a match may override any conscious effort on your part to correct your style - in the short term at least. Changing style is probably the must effective way to avoid further injury... in the long term. 2. What will you do in the short term to reduce the risk of injury? You could wear ankle supports or shoes that support / protect your ankles but they could give a false sense of security, or actually reduce your mobility by "locking" the ankles and preventing freedom of movement needed for table-tennis and thus risk other types of falls or injuries. Supports may also actually weaken your ankles if you wear them too much as your muscles and ligaments could start to rely on them to do their job for them and so become weaker. I was told not to wear a back support for too long after back surgery for this very reason - to encourage my back to build up its own muscles to protect it. 3. Strengthening your ankles in a way that doesn't damage them seems another good long term solution. Again though, this will take time. Ultimately there may not be a quick short term answer to this and you may need to adopt a combination of all the options you have listed until your ankle is stronger, if that is possible in your circumstances, or you've reduced the risk of twists by improving technique. Perhaps an investment in your health by seeking the advice of a specialist in sports biomechanics and who knows and understands both table tennis movement and your medical background would be the best person to seek advice from now to give the clarity you need in what to do next. Good luck on your journey to recovery.
@@PathfinderPro1 Thank you so very much for your excellent guidance, love, and care for me. The ankle is recovering as I've been patient to stay away from TT since the injury day and applied the doctor-recommended gels, pain killers, and ice packs. With this speed, I should be back in TT courts this Tuesday inA. Since this could have been avoided, it is time to put the money where my mouth is and do something about this. Here is what I have in mind to minimize this problem from occurring again, which otherwise it is only a matter of time refacing it. Here we go: *#1* Use this event as a milestone to change the bad habit of the always-BH-oriented style of play, so I do not find myself in the FH corner trying to do a BH shot. ( ua-cam.com/video/V0QUNIe8iko/v-deo.html ) That's a useless & bad habit anyway which produces poor shots and strong injuries which was the ultimate cause of my recent injury. If I had the proper habit of FH from FH side, this would not have happened. I may get two birds with one stone with this change. *#2* I will get physical therapy to strengthen those ankles. I have seen magical results of physical therapy firsthand, as it has put a pretty good endish for my decades-long headaches stemming from poor neck and back muscles. The ultrasound, infrared heat therapy, massage, end electric currents for my neck/head pains are mostly gone and this gives me very high hopes that the same kind of miraculous improvements can happen for my ankles too. *#3* Get better shoes. definitely low base, and absolutely not a locking grip like the current ones I was using. As you noticed perfectly, my shoes were gripping the Gerfloor too well and this is not a good idea. Now I need to identify one that is good for my specifics. If it has a large base, especially in the half-back area, it may help to prevent twists which was the primary reason for my choosing my "COURTJAM BOUNCE SHOES" which helped however its extreme grip was a NO-NO. *#4* wear an ankle band but do not trust them much. *#5* take it easy in play, follow the best ever ( Waldner's Style ) who was not running around as I do. *#6* Warm up before playing --- like Pitchford-> ua-cam.com/video/gnUs7Y0ZBJs/v-deo.html or Timo-> ua-cam.com/video/3hMSOi5IBSY/v-deo.html or Samsonov -> ua-cam.com/video/KbmpvCpkb48/v-deo.html all of which tells us the amateurs, if you want to be a serious TT player, do not skip this EVER. *#7* drill the following in my mind: half of the table tennis is from the ground. So be properly rooted!
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
It's amazing that such an important subject in such a well-done video has very few views. This shows me that the table tennis community does not see the shoe selection process as a high priority item. Thank you for this review. My top priority in selecting the shoe is its stability and its ability to minimize the possibility of twists and strains. To minimize that even further, I even thought of getting basketball shoes due to their high tops hoping that tops will prevent and wrists. I could not test this theory simply because not a single table tennis athlete I'm come across who wear high tops. Your comments would be appreciated a lot if you can shed some light on the issue of high-tops and ankle injury protection at the expense of some performance.
Thank you Haluk Karamete. There are a number of brief reviews on websites but as you say, little to any real in depth reviews for table tennis shoes. I've written to members of Asics Board simply because although they make excellent table tennis shoes, they don't market them on their own website as table tennis shoes. Crazy when you think of the market share in China alone that goes untapped. It may have something to do with the fact that people say that Asics make shoes for other table tennis "makers" such as Butterfly and so don't want to infringe on any possible arrangement they have for making these shoes for others. I don't know. Regarding your comment about twists, the Gel Hunter 2 have now been retired because their soles became to hard and slippy. I've made a follow up video about this. And, I've moved more to minimalist or "barefoot" shoes for day to day wear as I've found them better for my hip and knees. Because they have zero drop (heel to toe), they are flat and they tend to have wider toe boxes to allow the feet to spread out rather than being cramped. That alone I find gives them much better lateral support because they are so flat. Throw in the fact that these types of shoes promote strength in the foot area because the foot nolonger relies on things like arch support to get lazy, or suffer from heel strikes which occur with cushioned raised shoes and I'm finding I'm physically better balanced and stronger which reduces the risk of ankle twists. The downside is there's no / very little protection against the pounding the knees, hips and ankles take from sidestepping, or lunging on hard floors when playing table tennis. Sometimes in an attempt to reach the ball the idea of using the ball of the foot to land on becomes secondary to simply getting to the ball which can in turn result in heel strikes. To answer your question then, hand ball shoes I've found to be useful. Basket ball shoes whilst being higher, I do think will impinge on the ability of the foot to flex and bend like I'd personally want to feel they can do. So I'm going down a different route, focusing more on flatter shoes to aid stability rather than taller shoes to increase rigidity in the ankle area. I've considered Inov8 bare xf 210 v3 trainers and some New Balance Minmus trainers. I've contracted Vivobarefoot and asked them and they suggested GeoCourt 2's but I'm not convinced the person on their customer service team that answered my query understands table tennis movement. Xerpshoes are another brand I've considered but it's an expensive experiment as none of these shoes are cheap. In terms of table tennis shoes, Butterfly Lezoline Zero shoes may meet my needs or I'll simply go back to Asics and try their Rocket shoe. Undecided at the moment, what I do know though is that for me, I'll not be going down the basket ball shoe route. This topic discussion on the OOAK Table Tennis Forum may help you ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18119
@@PathfinderPro1 Thank for this excellent and thoughtful reply and the love and care you put in into TT. Flat shoes is a very good idea, I will definitely pay attention to this angle and be more selective in this regard. This weekend, I've injured myself ( and made a 10 sec video about it in slow motion ua-cam.com/video/V0QUNIe8iko/v-deo.html ) to understand what went wrong here and what caused it. Please take a look, would you? As far as I can see, no shoe could have prevented this, would you agree? I think it is all about being in the wrong position, and then trying to recover from that wrong position causing an awkward move. And unless I pay attention to this wrong playing style ( that is doing a BH from the FH side ). this can happen again. But, I'd like to know your thoughts on this , if you could shed some light when you have time, I will be all ears. Again, thank you so much for all of your detailed reviews and helping people realize that there is a science behind table tennis.
Firstly, "ouch' that looked painful. Ankle ligaments? I've done that a few times but for me it's because I went over on my ankle badly as a teenager which caused some damage and a weakness in my ankle to that type of movement. It could also be caused by your shoes actually gripping the surface too well and getting "stuck". The floor and hall look purpose built for table tennis so the environment didn't look too be the cause.. As a coach, I notice you favour your BH even from your FH side and you get very side on rather than square. You also stand tall rather than have a wider base of support / lower centre of gravity which would help with your stability and balance. Because of that when stepping back you seem to be putting a twisting motion on that left lower leg/foot. That's a lot of strain around that able joint
I'm sure there are people trained in bio mechanics and far better qualified to comment on your injury, it's cause and how to avoid it in the future than me. And I'm not medically trained. Looking at the video the question I would ask you is do you seek to identify the cause and rectify that (technique) or accept your style may always put you at risk of this type of injury and try and mitigate the damage when it happens - increasing lateral support or ankle support through choice of footwear? That's a choice only you can make 🙂
@ Haluk Karamete, I've read the description you have done for your video and your reply to one of the comments you've had where I think you list 5 options. It seems you have given this a lot of thought already and pretty much know the answer yourself. The only things I'd add are 1. To embed the correct movement technique in my experience can be difficult with players who already may have "bad habits". Even with the best will in the world players resort to what they know best when under pressure. Your immediate reactions when you are focusing on the ball in a tight or important point in a match may override any conscious effort on your part to correct your style - in the short term at least. Changing style is probably the must effective way to avoid further injury... in the long term.
2. What will you do in the short term to reduce the risk of injury? You could wear ankle supports or shoes that support / protect your ankles but they could give a false sense of security, or actually reduce your mobility by "locking" the ankles and preventing freedom of movement needed for table-tennis and thus risk other types of falls or injuries. Supports may also actually weaken your ankles if you wear them too much as your muscles and ligaments could start to rely on them to do their job for them and so become weaker. I was told not to wear a back support for too long after back surgery for this very reason - to encourage my back to build up its own muscles to protect it.
3. Strengthening your ankles in a way that doesn't damage them seems another good long term solution. Again though, this will take time.
Ultimately there may not be a quick short term answer to this and you may need to adopt a combination of all the options you have listed until your ankle is stronger, if that is possible in your circumstances, or you've reduced the risk of twists by improving technique.
Perhaps an investment in your health by seeking the advice of a specialist in sports biomechanics and who knows and understands both table tennis movement and your medical background would be the best person to seek advice from now to give the clarity you need in what to do next. Good luck on your journey to recovery.
@@PathfinderPro1 Thank you so very much for your excellent guidance, love, and care for me. The ankle is recovering as I've been patient to stay away from TT since the injury day and applied the doctor-recommended gels, pain killers, and ice packs. With this speed, I should be back in TT courts this Tuesday inA. Since this could have been avoided, it is time to put the money where my mouth is and do something about this. Here is what I have in mind to minimize this problem from occurring again, which otherwise it is only a matter of time refacing it. Here we go: *#1* Use this event as a milestone to change the bad habit of the always-BH-oriented style of play, so I do not find myself in the FH corner trying to do a BH shot. ( ua-cam.com/video/V0QUNIe8iko/v-deo.html ) That's a useless & bad habit anyway which produces poor shots and strong injuries which was the ultimate cause of my recent injury. If I had the proper habit of FH from FH side, this would not have happened. I may get two birds with one stone with this change. *#2* I will get physical therapy to strengthen those ankles. I have seen magical results of physical therapy firsthand, as it has put a pretty good endish for my decades-long headaches stemming from poor neck and back muscles. The ultrasound, infrared heat therapy, massage, end electric currents for my neck/head pains are mostly gone and this gives me very high hopes that the same kind of miraculous improvements can happen for my ankles too. *#3* Get better shoes. definitely low base, and absolutely not a locking grip like the current ones I was using. As you noticed perfectly, my shoes were gripping the Gerfloor too well and this is not a good idea. Now I need to identify one that is good for my specifics. If it has a large base, especially in the half-back area, it may help to prevent twists which was the primary reason for my choosing my "COURTJAM BOUNCE SHOES" which helped however its extreme grip was a NO-NO. *#4* wear an ankle band but do not trust them much. *#5* take it easy in play, follow the best ever ( Waldner's Style ) who was not running around as I do. *#6* Warm up before playing --- like Pitchford-> ua-cam.com/video/gnUs7Y0ZBJs/v-deo.html or Timo-> ua-cam.com/video/3hMSOi5IBSY/v-deo.html or Samsonov -> ua-cam.com/video/KbmpvCpkb48/v-deo.html all of which tells us the amateurs, if you want to be a serious TT player, do not skip this EVER. *#7* drill the following in my mind: half of the table tennis is from the ground. So be properly rooted!