@VideoCommenter Yeah, I suppose I was thinking "enthusiast keyboards" as in "keyboards that currently only enthusiasts pursue." So old keyboards are not currently mainstream, and have become enthusiast because they're mostly only sought after by enthusiasts.
let’s disqualify razer, logitech, corsair and whatever else keyboards you can buy from a “gaming” company; a company that sells gaming peripherals and computer hardware
@@amok00 Why disqualify keyboards on the basis of the company selling them? That's completely irrelevant, and spreading that kind of attitude stops people recognising when they make something good. It's pointless snobbery.
Fun fact: Until rock music got somewhat accepted, it was categorized as "electronic music" because of their use of electric guitars and those damn kids.
10:02 This definition actually has a really funny interaction with Steelseries’ Omnipoint switches (which if you didn’t know, are switches that use a magnet + pcb that detects magnetic strength to make the actuation point adjustable). If you set the actuation anywhere from 0.1mm to 3.9mm, it’s a mechanical switch, but the MOMENT you make it so that you have to bottom out, it stops being mechanical. Probably the worst offender of this definition.
Somewhere in the 1980s, I think, philosopher Richard Boy developed a theory called "the homeostatic cluster-property theory of metaethical naturalism" Great name, I know. The point is that Boyd thought that they're concepts like Good and Evil, or in this case "Mechanical" that describe material reality, but are made up of a cluster of properties instead of a strict definition. Meaning that they're a lot of people things you might want to include in the property cluster of "mechanical" but we're never going to pin down exactly what those are and what they're not, because that's not how the concept works. The example Boyd used was health. They're a number of things that go into deciding if a person is healthy, like a beating heart or certain levels of blood pressure, good posture, whatever. But a person can be unhealthy while exhibiting some of the properties in the cluster and be healthy while missing some. Still, according to Boyd, these concepts, like good, evil, healthy and mechanical, are useful to have and can be objectively true. Or at least true in the same sense that scientific statements are.
The real problem with "mechanical" keyboards isn't the fact that there is no definition, but the fact that some people assume that mechanical keyboards are better than the rest (mainly rubber domehs) and it's sad because here I am feeling like the only keyboard I could switch to for longer than a week is a btc dome with slider one even though there is a ton of modern keyboards I like (for example ergodox) there is no way I could switch to them because none of modern cherry mx mount switches comes even close to IBM keyboards in term of keyfeel and btc dome with sliders aren't close either, but that's the point - they are so different and yet (with good keycaps) so satisfying to type on that they claimed a second spot in my heart after buckling springs.
>ome people assume that mechanical keyboards are better than the rest yeah, that's the biggest problem, because why good rubber dome keyboard must be worse than actual cherry mx switch type board? Lots of people complain about "muh partway through actuation, 50/70/2137 milion keypresses that mean nothing when it comes to reliability issues, nkro (or worse: full antighosting) support and RGB(T) that is rather more visually appealing than actually helpful, because cheap desk lamp provides much better visibility when typing at night", why good keyboard from 1980s/1990s must be considered as worse, nevermind if it feels better or is at least as reliable as "mechanical" keyboard made in 2018?
@@Crokto there are several keyswitches I want to try out at some point because they seem like a good contestant for being the second and third favourite switches of mine (Alps SKCM Blue, Topreh with gray bke domes and zealio with 100g SPRiT springs), but because I live in poland there are almost no mechanical keyboard meet ups nearby so that's a bummer.
"none of modern cherry mx mount switches comes even close to IBM keyboards in term of keyfeel" I mean yeah, there's nothing like a Model M, F or a Beamspring, those are all in a class of their own, however I can recommend some modern MX mount switches I like. Ace Pad Hall Effect, if you're okay with Linears, are really nice, reliable and smooth as butter. Kailh BOX Navy have a really nice satisfying tactile click, if you're okay with the sound and an above average weight. They're nice and smooth too. Royal Hakos, if you want a more tactile rubber dome-like rounded feel in a discreet switch. The tactile bump is right at the top and it pushes the slider past the contact point so as soon as you feel the tactile bump, you know it actuated. And they actively prevent you from bottoming out too, much like Cherry MX Clear only with a much more pronounced tactility. They are heavy, but they feel quite soft as you don't really bottom out that often. IMO, smoother and nicer than BOX Royals.
I have some low-cost rubber dome keyboards that are as pleasing to type on as keyboards costing ten times as much. Too bad they flex like hell. That said, I have some 25 and 30 year old rubber dome keebs that feel great and are built like tanks.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you should start recording audio books. Seriously, you'd be fantastic for Robert Jordan or Brandon Sanderson storyline.
It’s all subjective. Or is it. Tf the switch sits in a sturdy frame mounted in an even better case and not on an flimsy pcb losely inside a thin plastic shell then even a cherry key can do well at least If it’s not brown 🤢 or MY
Glad to see this video push through from that discussion we had in the comments a few videos back. I'm all for a pragmatic understanding of the term "mechanical". We use it merely to convey a broad, vague, and even arbitrary sense of what makes a keyboard better than the run-of-the-mill standard office rubber dome membranes, but that whenever we try to pin it down, a full solid definition will always evade us. I'd say its part of what makes this hobby so interesting; that we can't even properly delineate the clear limits of what constitutes a keyboard worth our interest (and therefore the criteria by which we can pre-judge keyboards as being such). I agree that we should all learn to just try a keyboard before judging it, but at the same time I think we can continue to accept that the term "mechanical" has its practical place in our parlance despite its ultimately non-rational meaning.
Oh, it definitely has its uses. It's a perfect term to advertise with, for example. Or if you're trying to explain why the keyboards you're so interested in are better than "normal" keyboards. But all this need to rigidly qualify things really does a lot of harm to for example keyboard innovation IMO.
@@Chyrosran22 Couldn't agree more. Case in point being the misguided way Cherry MX's market leadership has skewed views on keyboard quality. I literally have a friend who thinks that the scratchiness of his mid-2000's MX Blacks somehow make them feel more "mechanical", and hence why he thinks Flaretechs and Box switches feel "unmechanical" somehow. Still under that marketing-induced logic that says that because Cherry MX are industry standard, it means they're to be treated as the benchmark. It drives me nuts. Anyway, I definitely enjoy these types of analysis videos, and I hope to see more.
As I watched more videos and read articles and forum posts the "mechanical" in mechhanical keyboard became more of a marketing term than an actual category to me. As you mentioned the term mechanical involves a mechanism that moves. How I categorize keyboard mechanisms now are something like this: 1. Membrane - Uses a membrane sheet or a rubber dome being pressed by a shaft to complete the circuit. This includes the "Mechanical-feel" keyboard that are just rubber domes. 2. Scissor Switch - Technically a subset of Membrane due to the use of rubber domes but is different due to the mecanism that presses on the rubber domes. 3. Optical - Uses light sensors to sense if a key is pressed. 4. Buckling Spring - IBM Model M and Model F (they're their own kind of beast). 5. Magnetic/Hall Effect - Uses magnetism properties to sense switch actuation. 6. Capacitive - Uses Capacitance to sense switch actuation like Topre. 7. "Mechanical" - Uses metal contacts to close a circuit and trigger the switch. 8. Mecha-Membrane - The weirdo that uses a mechanical shaft with multiple parts to press on a rubber dome. 9. Laser Projection - A category for the weird laser projection keyboards that have no moving parts and just projects its "keys" on a surface. But meh at the end of the day when I talk to people about "mechanical" keyboards and switches we understand it as the type that has metal contacts to close a circuit and register a key. The Membrane keyboard I liked the best is a KeyTronic E03601 (non ergoforce version) as it feels tactile to me while not being as creaky as modern rubber dome membrane boards and it is decently heavy to press which I quite like. It is still the best membrane keyboard I have though not working anynore due to the traces near the controller board failing I have it as a display piece on my shelf of old technology. It sits on top of VHS tapes and bootleg Sega MegaDrive games. The Scissor Switch type I like due to the low travel, but they are very different from one model to another. Older ones tend to have a bit more travel than newer ones where they make them too thin that it feels like I'm tapping on solid plastic and not pressing anything or have sh*t keycaps that break easily. So far I have settled on the keyboards on IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads and use the ThinkPad Compact USB keyboard on my computer. It feels the best among the scissor switches I have tried but between the ThinkPad keyboards I somewhat prefer the newer chiclet (or Island style as they call it) versions as the older ones (non Island style) felt a bit mushy for me. As for the typical Mechanical keyboard, I hate Blues or any clicky ones. I use Reds but would like to try other linear types if possible. Linear Reds may be more quiet but still a fair bit louder than the ThinkPad USB keyboard I have mentioned which is Scissor Switch.
I've had several of these thoughts before, and the end result is I've made an active effort to say "microswitched keyboard" instead of "mechanical keyboard". Which is really just trading one ambiguity for another, but at least I'm not defying all reasonable definitions of the word "mechanical".
Could you extend the final definition, to say 'the mechanism has the ability to actuate anywhere along the travel without fundamentally changing the design'? Or even just 'does not *require* bottoming out to actuate'.
The first one doesn't really work, because you don't FUNDAMENTALLY have to change most designs to make them such that they actuate on bottoming out, just slightly change the shape of some contact or piece of plastic. The second one has more merit, I think, but you can apply reverse logic to this to fail it. Some dome with slider switches don't require bottoming out, while others do, but the mechanism is fundamentally the same. It makes no logical sense to qualify one and disqualify the other (except for practical purposes of course).
@@Chyrosran22 Very interesting, didn't really think about dome with slider switches not requiring bottom out. I do agree with your line of thinking though, I think the term 'mechanical' is only essentially good for describing a certain 'feel' that the majority of people would agree is a desirable one. There seems to be every combination of method to achieve an actuation, so I wonder if it would be an interesting idea to do some sort of mechanical rating. Maybe certain elements could be considered 'mechanical' and others not, and you could deduce some sort of measure for 'how mechanical' a switch is from that. I know it's completely arbitrary, just a throwing ideas out because I can :D
What most people consider a mechanical switch (at least subconsciously) is something that transforms the direct vertical motion of pressing a key into something else in order to detect a keystroke. Rubber domes over membranes don't do that, and instead translate motion of the key being pressed down onto the top membrane to press it against the other - in theory at least. In practice the mushiness of the rubber allows for a little overtravel and doesn't result in direct 1:1 translation of the key travel motion to the membranes, but that's more of a side effect of the properties of rubber than a design consideration. I think the way a switch mechanism transforms the vertical keytravel into detecting keypresses can be used to categorize switches as mechanics, semi-mechanical, or otherwise if people can agree on what constitutes a transformation and how many and what kind of transformations constitute a switching mechanism being considered mechanical or otherwise.
Again, that just doesn't cut it. What about switches that have the contact motion vertically instead of horizontal? Or if I mounted the contacts from a Cherry MX switch vertically instead of horizontally, would it then cease to be mechanical? It's also very vague on what that would mean for Hall effect, capacitive, magnetic valve, etc. switches.
I've always liked your partway actuation definition, cuz at least for me that's what makes me hate typical rubber domes, and what I think frustrates most people about your typical office keyboard - the need to bottom out extra hard because some keys don't register when typing normally and others bind for no discernible reason.
@@alexandrecosta2567 first of all, i can assure you that many people have complained about topre. but also, while topre certainly can bottom out because yeah duh, they actuate partway down, much like "normal" mechanical switches.
@@Crokto right, I still feel like quality plays a big role on the whole "enthusiast" market. Green alps are more valuable than salmon or blacks, and they're still alps
The earliest breakdown of keyboard technologies that I've seen that specifically mentions "mechanical" as distinct from other technologies was in a PC Magazine roundup of "replacement" IBM PC keyboards in 1992. It listed "mechanical", "conductive rubber dome" and "membrane switches" as distinct technologies (and specifically did *not* consider the Model M mechanical). Mechanical keyboards were shown to be keyboards with a spring (though the text never actually mentioned this) and metal contacts actuated when the plunger pushed them against the metal sides of the mechanism, one side of which would reach down to the PCB. "Mechanical" was ill-defined even then, with the magazine noting that several "membrane" keyboards used mechanical spring actuators, allowing them to retain a mechanical feel "without compromise" (whatever that means). But the point is this term grew in an era when there were fewer keyboard technologies to distinguish, and in general they were more distinct. Even then, though, there was some overlap, and over time, manufacturers often made hybrid designs. But the term "mechanical" stuck, despite it losing more and more of its meaning over the years. Nowadays I think it's basically a term to distinguish "rubber dome" from "everything else". Which is still a useful thing to do when talking about current production keyboards.
"Mechanical" has been used as a marketing term at least as early as the late 70s. In the 90s, everyone was just as brainwashed by marketing talk as people are now xD .
Why should the classification of mechanical keyboard/keyswitch be limited to one criteria? What other things are classified by only one criteria? I know things like planets for instance, have several requirements that must be met before they can be considered as such. Why should this be any different?
I have been using your definition "What we mean by mechanical keyboard is a keyboard in which the actuation happens approximately half-way of the key travel" and added my own "which must be at least 3 mm (~0.12 inch)", for months now, and it works very well, most of the time. When I want to explain to someone why I prefer "mechanical" keyboards and what I mean by this, the "actuate before bottoming out" and "plenty of travel" points convey most of what I consider essential. It then becomes obvious to them why rubber domes over membranes and scissor switches are not considered "mechanical", even if most of the time people had not realized that they had to bottom out, sometimes pretty hard, to actuate the switch - but they understand when you point this out. Some keyboards that do not fit the definition are still pleasant to use (some rubber dome over membranes produced in the 90s are fine, some laptop keyboards are absolutely usable), it's just that we do not call them "mechanical". The mid-travel actuation is really important, as well as the travel length. These are the reasons why we love keyboards that feature both properties, even if these properties alone are not enough (it is still possible to create a really crappy keyboard that fits the above definition). Interestingly, musical keyboards - pianos, organs, synthesizers, ... - also share both properties (at least the decent ones). No keyboardist would accept to have to bottom out to get a sound - that would get rejected right away. It's an imperfect definition, and there will be exceptions, but I do not know of any better concise definition, so I thank you for introducing it.
Great video, could have been one of the very first in your channel :) Your analysis makes all the sense, I agree what matters is our perception of the typing experience (sound and feel) regardless of how the device actually registers our fingers trying to activate different keys. The "mechanical" tag for keyboards seems indeed sort of discrimination-based only. Mechanical in general should just mean that there are ***moving solid parts*** in the device, regardless of materials or operating principle. If anything solid other than our fingers needs to move for a key to activate, then it is ***mechanical*** . If only electromagnetic fields or photons "move" or change, but nothing solid other than our fingers move during the typing, only then it would clearly be ***non-mechanical*** . Almost all keyboards are therefore mechanical, except laser virtual ones, or touchpad/touch screens. That very same definition of mechanical is what distinguishes a normal spinning harddrive disk (mechanical because it has moving parts) from an SSD (non-mechanical, because it has no moving parts.)
Nobody can give a definition of mechanical but everyone knows what you mean when you say it. Non-mechanical = the cheap rubber domes we're all familiar with, touchscreens, projected keyboards. Mechanical = everything else, everything "desirable" but 90% of the time people just mean Cherry MX.
It's the same question as "are videogames art" I guess, with pretty much the same answer: don't get hung up on terminology too much or you lose sight of what really matters.
honestly I think that the rubber dome-less definition works. I don't count dome with slider as mechanical as for the capacitive touchscreen ones, I think there should be a level of common sense, it has to move downwards when you press it.
We're all mechanical here. :D Great choice of topic as it's one that comes up frequently. I also don't think it matters much, since there are a lot of factors that go into deciding if you like the feel of a keyboard.
Glad someone made a video like this because in my mind anything with moving parts is a mechanical keyboard which includes regular dome keyboards. Honestly some dome keyboards are good. I am older and grew up on old keyboards with alps etc. My first pc was a commodore 64 and I have no problems on quality dome keyboards. Never any missed keys as long as they are good ones. I still have a old G15 I use allot and the domes on it are good, they bind up quickly near the top of the stroke and once they release they always bottom out there is no half pushes... if it makes the tactile feeling half way then it goes the rest of the way and makes contact every time, I can't get it past the bump without contact even if I try.
As you say technically any moving keyboard is mechanical. In reality, the term Mechanical Keyboard comes from the switches, being two metal contacts that engage to make contact, then disengage. With that, technically a Magnetic Reed Switch is mechanical, whereas all the rest are not really.
Enjoyed it a lot. You introduced so many switch types and KB models to explain your points that it felt like visiting a KB museum. Keep the vids coming!
whatever definition you land on, someone can always make something that lands in the middle. As long as it's intuitive and catches most cases, I'd be ok with it. For me? springs. Has individual rubber switches that feel great? ok, not mechanical. I'm fine with that. Has a single sheet with sewn-in springs that feel awful? sure, mechanical. I'm not getting it, but it works on springs.
@@MadsterV as Thomas said though, the best idea would be to give up entirely on the term "mechanical" and refer to older keyboards as "vintage" and newer ones as "enthusiast"
@@plazasta no. Immediately when you get into this hobby you learn that's inadequate. Old Soviet terminal keyboards are built to military specs, and will last long after we today are all dead. The same years, Eastern European clones of ZX Spectrum have really awful keyboards, often can't be repaired. Same vintage (or same degree of newness, depending on your point of view) Soviet military tech, you want to qualify as "mechanical", No one wants to call even the original Speccy keyboard, "mechanical". Both are "vintage", though.
Nice thought provoking commentary. Changed my view, on a couple points. I think you're right, we're never going to have one commonly adhered to definition of mechanical keyboards because our general view of them is one based on a "feeling" and feelings are purely subjective by the individual. But after listening to this video, I'm perfectly happy with a definition in the broadest sense that incorporates any physical keyboard that someone might like, even if I'm not fond of it myself. (Like rubber domes).
I explained exactly this to a friend the other day. Mechanical being opposed to solid state, such as a mechanical drive vs a solid state drive. All keyboards are mechanical excluding solid state ones. I suppose technically defining it would be more about what you exclude rather than what you include. Essentially, the way I understand it when someone says mechanical is "Any keyboard that is not straight bottom out feel typically to mean a dome of some kind over a membrane or some sort of solid state simulacrum of a physical keyboard, such on displays of keyboards or visual displays." My personal definition is that a mechanical keyboard would be any keyboard that includes more than two parts between your find and the actuation. This includes all contactless switches I am aware of as well as topra, foam and foil and ibm switches. Think about it, straight up rubber domes rely on you pushing a keycap which pushs a dome which makes direct contact to a membrane, those weird "My First Keyboard" style contacts are a sheet of plastic that pops up and down to make contact. Smart phones use just your finger for conduction. In other words, if you remove the keycap and can push directly on a single mechanism that directly contacts and returns all in one piece then it really isn't "mechanical" Topra you push on a dome that pushes down a spring that makes contact; Not sure if this holds up 100%, but I think it's at least a better way of defining it than others and has more to do with "mechanism of operation" and is material independent. You could also say that it "must include a spring force that is separate in operation from the actuation mechanism." IE define in terms of complexity of the mechanism.
Nice discourse on what defines mechanical keyboards. I do have a feeling that people who use the term use "mechanical keyboard" as a compound noun rather than "mechanical" as an adjective to "keyboard", which is where all of the confusion lies. If you were to use "mechanical" as an adjective to "keyboard", then just about every keyboard that contains moving parts of some sort should probably qualify. But if "mechanical keyboard" is taken as a compound noun, then I also agree that people can and will define what it is based on seemingly arbitrary criteria. What they do have in common is that 1) people stand by keyboards they consider "mechanical keyboards" and 2) they are superior to those that are not considered as such. For myself, a decided non-enthusiast who is a little bit curious, I would consider something like "commoditized replaceable keycaps" to be a defining characteristic of a mechanical keyboard: I can purchase key caps separately from the rest of the keyboard and apply them as I see fit, and I can transfer them from one keyboard to another keyboard of substantially different construction. Of course, this definition is dumb, arbitrary, and excludes keyboards that are prized by the community simply because of something like "no longer being manufactured", and it says nothing about the details that enthusiasts obsess over. All in all, I believe that mechanical keyboards are defined descriptively rather than prescriptively - they employ certain specific parts that are made by these certain manufacturers, specifically excluding those that are not on a specific list that changes over time. The rationale for including and excluding certain parts are entirely subjective and arbitrary, sure, but it seems like people tend to put the same parts in their list, so I presume parts found in a lot of peoples' lists define the mechanical keyboard of today...
I think the definition is about the complexity of the switch. To call something a mechanism it should be a bit more than pressing down a contact on a contact pad against the force some rubber or simple spacer exerts. it there is a click, metal part (not just a thin coating on a foil) that significantly changes it's position, that's more like a mechanism. it's about the heft of the movement. You said multiple times, the mechanism does not care what material it is made of. I think it does. If it is a mechanism that is supposed to last a few times, that material should be more than just rubber, plastic or foil. Of course even a lid on a tupperware is some kind of mechanism by its dictionary definition, but not in a sense that matters here. "Mechanical" Keyboards is short for 'Complex, long lasting mechanism switch keyboards of a certain quality'. At least to me. There are some rubber keyboards that say they are 'mechanical' because the keycaps hit the mounting board just at the right moment so you have some tactile feedback. I would say, yes, this adds complexity, and is a mechanism (but a bad one) - it does not improve lifespan. So it is mechanical-like but not really. and i think most switches you mentioned are in my definition (That should be) and most of the ones you don't want are out. So just include 'quality' in the term 'mechanical' and we are good... :)
you could kinda make this argument with almost any word like, whats a "door" ? an entrance to a building? is a window a door? if i break a hole through your wall is that a door? does it have to have hinges? sliding doors dont have hinges. what if its not the entrance to a building? is a gate to a fenced off area a "door"? what if you burn a house down but the door still stands and can open and close properly, but most of the houses walls and roof are completely missing? is that still a door? its not an entrance to a building anymore at the end of the day, words are just tools we use to convey practical meaning, when i say "door" you can picture a door, probably all kinds of doors, and you know what the point of a door is at the end of the day our goal is always just to communicate our ideas effectively as we can through the obtuse and imprecise medium of language. So if you want to tell someone that a keyboard is "mechanical" but arent sure if it qualifies, it might just be better to tell them the practical benefits of the keyboard, like if its more responsive or satisfying to use. Basically it just comes down to what you said at the end; "Who cares if it adheres to some random definition anyways?" tl;dr: it doesnt really matter just use whatever typey thing gets the words down good
For me mechanical movement is perfectly clear, like in the suspension of a car you can count springs and triangles or leafsprings but not the bouncy effect of the tyres due to the airpressure. Is it so difficult?
@@Chyrosran22 That is the difference between scientists, engineers and mechanics.Some like to make the world so difficult where is is perfectly clear for 98% of the practical group (Thats imperial: one fry short of a happy meal)
For the "no need to bottom out" definition, wouldn't that also include overly sensitive touchscreens that register your "touches" before your finger even touches the screen?
I've never actually thought of this, mostly because i am new to the "MK" fandom and didn't know there were so many different switches that had such a particular set of parts to it. Having watched the video to the end the only definition of mechanical keyboard i could come up with is:"A Keyboard in which the switches are composed of multiple parts specifically designed to convey the user a specific feel: linear, tactile, clicky or any combination of the three. As long as the parts used for the actuation of the switch are not limited to just pushing in on a rubber dome to stop electric current flowing trough a PCB, it is considered Mechanical Keyboard" A bit long winded, my original thought in fact was to exclude older switches which are not manufactered anymore since the term got more popular recently AND they are the most problematic: They may include a rubber dome as the actuating method, but also contain different "mechanical parts" so excluding the "pushing of a rubber dome to stop electric current flowing trough a PCB" as an actuating method for a mechanical keyboard was out of the question. Then again, cancelling the history of the "mechanical keyboard" by ignoring the existance of these historical switches would just be dumb, and quite unrespectful to the pioneers that made the mechanical keyboards we have now possible.
When my old rubber dome keyboard started causing hand stress, sticky keys, letters worn down to invisibility, I begin to explore the world of keyboards. In the end, I selected an inexpensive, clicky, RGB keyboard from Amazon. I have been so happy with how much easier it is to type on it, I love how this sound reminds me of the days when I used old-school type writers, and the back lighting makes it easy to find numbers if I type into the dark hours of the evening. I may touch type, but I’ve never been good at typing numbers. Maybe someday I will get to try out the fabulous Topre or old-school IBM keyboards. But for now I am really happy with these clicky and fast keys.
My own and *personal* definition is: _"A keyboard which its keys present a mechanism over the plate in which those are mounted"._ This excludes traditional membrane, tactile screens, virtual keyboards and the laser keyboard whilst including topre, cherry, ibm model m or f, etc.
I still think that there's something very important in your 'partway actuation' approach. I'd be quite confident on replying to family and friends that ask about mechanical keyboards that they are those 'whose switches are designed in a way that allows for partway actuation, and are most often built and set up in such a way - although you could choose to build or modify the switches so that the actuation is at the very bottom of the key-press, like most widely available office keyboards require you to do'
This is a late contribution, but I think you touched on something important near the end: the term "mechanical" is useful to describe how a keyboard feels. Perhaps this would actually be the best definition of a mechanical keyboard -- a keyboard that "feels" mechanical? This would likely include everything that one would like to include (I think Topre feels more or less mechanical, for example), while excluding the common rubber dome keyboard. The only problem are the "mechanical" switches that don't feel mechanical. On the other hand, any definition has outliers that are hard to define, and there's always an exception that proves the rule...
Interesting video. Wouldn't mind more videos along this style if you had anything else you wanted to go on about because you show your care about the topic and your experience pulls through too.
i'm not sure i get the complication. i always felt it was if it was made of stiff parts. i guess that's close to the same as four and i don't really get the counter-arguments there. that just feels like a list of non-mechanical options that range from less to more mushy and some people may like those options and call the less mushy half "mecha-membrane" or w/e and that's fine, so it doesn't seem to not function as a dividing line.
Here's my definition for switches: A 'membrane' switch is a switch wherein the stem of the keycap directly interacts with a rubber dome, which interacts with a membrane below. These are usually plagued by a large amount of mush, though it is not a requirement mecha-membrane and mem-chanical switches fall under this, as their keycaps directly touch a rubber dome A 'digital' switch is one that has no moving parts. touchscreen, digital, and projected keyboards A 'Mechanical' switch is anything that does not fall under the previous categories In practice, Mechanical usually refers to a physical keyboard or switch that is not a 'membrane' switch as described above, as such I feel my definition of mechanical keyboard is sufficient TL;DR: A "Mechanical Keyboard" is a physical keyboard where the keystrokes are not registered by the stem of the keycap directly interacting with a rubber dome.
I hadn't thought too deeply about the idea, but the way you took this concept and ran it though the wringer, I do have to agree: Mechanical definement by basis of actuation method is a bit mad.
I personally don't use the term from what I've noticed. It doesn't really make a difference because at the end of the day, the switch has to feel good for typing or gaming and has to conform to the individual user's preferences. That means that I honestly would rather use a rubber dome or buckling spring for gaming than any cherry mx switch.
Watched this back and forth for three years. Here's my own criteria for "mechanical" keyboards. - Registering keypresses must have noticeable key travelling (excludes all solid state keyboards like touch screen) - Each keyboard parts or components except electronics must have only one or two purposes, excluding cosmetic or acoustic feedback (this excludes rubberdome over membrane & PCB keyboards since rubber mats act as key travel element, tactility, downstroke/upstroke dampener, and membrane pusher/carbon contact, but it does include Model F/M since the clicky noise is disregarded) - It should be serviceable enough, i.e., each components are interchangeable, replaceable, and shouldn't be difficult to substitute parts from different keyboard models or third parties (this also excludes cheap membrane keyboards).
so, would you say that a defining characteristic of a "mechanical" keyboard, being that a keypress registers as actuated before the key physically reaches the end of its travel?
Before I watch the vid: to me a mechanical keyboard is a board with discrete switches, over a sensing mechanizm of some sort, with removable key caps, where the key remains fully functional even with the cap off. And yes, I know it's kind of 'tricky' with some model M for example with single piece caps, but you could still push down the spring itself and get the mechanizm to function.
It disqualifies all foam and foil switches, some types of magnetic valve, and other switches that require an external spring to function, though ;) . Same goes for the Model F.
I almost never use the 'M word'. When the subject comes up I say that I like big loud clicky keyboards that are built like tanks, though I'm starting to also like a few other types.
I also try to not use that word, as there are more descriptive ways to describe how a keyboard feels. Not to mention that I've used used the dictionary definition before, for example to describe the different types of keyboard covers available for the Microsoft Surface line.
I think the consensus is " are mechanical, are not mechanical, everything else is a gray area." Your "actuates partway down" is definitely the best actual definition I'm aware of, though.
@@psider1522 it comes down to an exercise in power. It's not "good" as in intellectually satisfying. But judges, for example, have this power to declare something pornographic, and are going to exercise it no matter what. Which is why this is actually a good thing, more honest. The alternative might be for courts to decide nothing legally qualifies as porn, which you might personally like, but is not going to happen. The alternative could result in many more things being ruled as porn. BTW, for drug analogs, it's up to each judge in every individual case to decide how a previously unknown drug qualifies. For example, before being outlawed, MXE could be considered an analog of Schedule III ketamine, therefore totally legal; or else an analog of PCP, Schedule I, so they'd throw the book at you, no matter how unjustified from a chemical, or possibly pharmacological, point of view. It's unfair, but if that's the charge against you, wouldn't you like the judge to be able to decide your stash was legal and you are free to go, even get your drugs returned to you! Only to be plunged into suicidal depression when your idiot senators and congresspeople decide to specify it in a law. Or so I've heard that's how you might feel. 😉
I think my personal best definition would be something that actuates midway through. Because not knowing anything at all about mechanical keyboard, that's the one thing that got me interested in it
If I didn't have my Unicomp Model M, I would just have to have a WASD V2 or CODE with Cherry MX Greens for the stiffness and clicking, but they just don't have the weighty heft of buckling springs. They're arguably a bit stiffer than buckling springs, but the tactile event occurs partway through and can also bottom out afterwards while buckling springs always activate tactility when bottoming out.
A mechanical keyswitch is any keyboard switch that uses the flipping of a mechanical switch as the means of completing a circuit. And Pseudo Mechanical key-switches are keyboard switches that have a feel and sound similar to mechanical key-switch but uses an alternative mechanism to complete to the circuit I.E. Buckling springs, Topre, Hall effect, Optical switches, etc... is that good definition
By that definition dome with slider switches are mechanical just because the slider isn't part of the stem. It makes no sense xD . And again, touchscreens etc.! ;)
Hi Thomas! Thanks for providing us with a shit load of awesome content! I grew up in my dad's computer workshop in the late 80s and 90s, and since they didn't really cater to a particular brand of computers, everything came through the store - home computers with rubber caps, rubber domes and the occasional model M. Now, being in my mid 40s, I find myself somewhat nostalgic for the keyboards of the old days, while also being quite critical of quality and esthetics. I'm currently testing if Varmilo VA88M with blue's is a good fit for me, but while it has the click I was looking for, the charcoal caps really aren't working out for me. I rarely need to read the caps, but when I do, I prefer not to squint and use a flashlight. Honestly, with my eyes, the caps on this keyboard is only readable for about an hour around high noon. I wouldn't say I'm in the market for high contrast yet, but I'd go for something a little less charcoaly. Anyway, enough blabbering - question time: the TKL keyboard in your video around 1:08 and the 100% around 12:08 has some of the most delicious 70s/80s style keycaps I've seen in a long time. Not just the shape, but also the color theme. Could I trouble you for the make and model of keyboard and/or caps? :-)
Firstly yes. It's mainly a mark of being enthusiast/luxury grade hardware. Second is being able to customize it. And i'd say the importatnt part of keyboard being "mechanical" for me is it's ease of repair and maintenance. Like it's pretty hard to clean and repair membrane keyboard, so i find spending a lot of money on them to be a very bad idea. You're essentialy screwed when something goes wrong with membrane or single board keyboards. Upd. I though about it, and i think everything except rubber domes should be considered mechanical. Topre should be half mechanical or mechanical too, since there aren't a lot of them, just like hall effects, so let them be mechanical too.
If one must refer to keyboards as mechanical, how about, "A keyswitch is mechanical if it contains X number of moving/working parts for actuation?" Like, 2 or something, depending on what you consider a moving/working part. And this would ignore things like the keycap and the contacts/contact points on the keyboard. A standard rubber dome keyboard consists of a single sheet of said domes you push directly on to the contact point, and would be considered only one moving/working part per "keyswitch," for instance. Topre and Model M switches use multiple parts despite their membraney nature, so they would be included. The Oki tactile gourd spring wouldn't count as mechanical due to it's single part nature (despite being really cool). This definition should ignore stigma, keyfeel, as well as the quality of the keyswitch, allowing for the best, objective definition I can think of so far. Does this work, or am I missing something?
Couldn't you just define mechanical as a switch that uses hard substances only to to carry out the process of pressing a key. Note that this can still include keyboards that Have a rubber dome mat underneath the key but use hard plastics and metals for the function of key pressing. This definition excludes rubber domes, dome with slider, and foam with foil. Would that work?
No, in fact I don't think it actually DOES exclude rubber domes, the keycap and stem are still hard after all. Besides, think about it, why would a mechanism care about the hardness of its materials?
Fair enough. My stance was based on the mechanism of the key rather than the keycap and stem. I should have been A bit more clear, but that said you are right. A mechanism doesn't care. about the hardness of its pieces I was just trying to make the distinction of characteristic a large amount of keyboards either have or lack.
Buckling springs are generally "mechanical" despite actuating when bottoming out, but also being tactile and having a loud click to them, or despite having a membrane version and a capacitive version in IBM's case.
@@Chyrosran22 Right. What I meant to say was that the tactility is partway on Cherry MX and others, while in my experience, the tactility on buckling springs hits and then they don't bottom out much further. They are stiff and hefty.
@@Chyrosran22 Now that I think about it, it does indeed actuate slightly before bottoming out after having slowly pressed my Unicomp keys some more. it is certainly more comfortable than rubber domes and MX-style switches combined.
People often put Topre into the "electrostatic capacitive keyboard" category, which is considered a different category entirely from mechanical keyboards. So I guess the Model F or the Beam Spring aren't mechanical keyboards at all, they're electrostatic capacitive keyboards.
I think one blanket rule for whether or not a keyboard can be considered mechanical is a bad idea, but the best I can come up with is whether the action of pushing down the switch creates the contact or allows the switch to make the contact for you. that mostly boils down to if anything moves off-axis from or at a different rate than the user input, it's a mechanical switch. I also don't think "mechanical" is necessarily a good thing, or that "not mechanical" is necessarily bad. optical switches are great, but they're not mechanical. mx blues aren't great, but they are mechanical
You could argue that's already the case for rubber dome keyboards already. Besides, there are metal dome keyboards that work exactly the same as rubber domes. And how about if they stuck a random bit of metal foam somewhere in the switch, would it suddenly be mechanical then?
Considering the definitions you have evoked, it seems that people consider a keyboard mechanical if, 'the actuating mechanism is more than one part, and therefore appearing more "mechanical."' So it would appear that we are in a sticky state where people value systems that include a number of parts which metanymically are associated with a well designed machine, and less so if the mechanism is good on its own merits. In a nutshell, people seem to care more that they perceive the mechanism as more complex and therefore 'mechanical'. Mechanical is being used as an adjective that has lost its modifier. I would love to hear your opinion on this. :)
Yes, that is a fair point. I'd go so far as to dumb it down to the term's only use being an excuse to exhibit favouritism and nothing more. Any criterion involving part counts is moot anyway, as it's very hard to nail down how many "parts" a switch has in some cases, especially if it regards indivisible or shared parts. For example, you could envision a Model M switch' part count to be anything ranging from 1 to 7 (i.e. from just the spring+flipper assembly to stem + barrel + spring + flipper + 3 membranes).
@@Chyrosran22 That is interesting because I would think that it would be rather demonstrable in that example of the IBM buckling spring that it would be 'percieved' as 'more mechanical' than a sheet of rubber domes. I totally agree though, the word's use is definitely less to do with the quality of the mechanism, and more to do with showboating.
Also seeing as the slider is considered a part of the switch, would you consider a keycap with a stem (i.e. single part buckling spring caps, rubber dome caps) a part of the switch?
Don’t know how it took so long for this video to crop up for me. I’ve probably viewed 50 of your videos before buying my Unicomp Ultra Classic over a year ago. Anyway - great job here! Wonderful content and very thought provoking. I think often about how arbitrary it seems to call a membrane keyboard “not” mechanical. Obviously, it is a machine. It has parts that are assembled and designed to move repeatedly to perform a task. It’s not organic, it’s manufactured (by other mechanical things, no less). All said, I still prefer using the Unicomp, when noise allows. It’s apparently the machine for me.
I do not use "Mechanical" or "Non-Mech" to refer to Keyboards. I class them into "Rubber" (Where rubber is the primary element, like in a sheet), "Modified Rubber" (This includes switches like Dome with Slider and Hybrid), "Non-Rubber" (What I people traditionally call "Mechanical"), and "Other" (which would be the laser projector and software keyboards).
This is a good discussion of the bizarre debate surrounding “mechanical” keyboards. This debate is not found to this level of absurdity in other parts of the computing world. We know what SSD vs HDD storage defines. We know what we are getting with HDMI vs VGA. Different resolutions are based on easily-understood pixels. As you said “industry jargon.” The point of finding the right keyboard among all the choices seems like it should be “does it do the thing I want it to do well? Is it in my budget? Will it still be doing what I expect it to do for as long as I expect it to?” Beyond that, when researching any product based on a subjective quality like a keyboard’s “feel,” others’ opinions should always be taken with a grain of salt. In the end, if you like a keyboard, that’s what matters!
A similar issue as raised in this video arises when you try to define creativity in the context of art and music, especially in the context of education such as grading a students composition on the basis of creativity. The definition that a lot of music education researchers have come to agree on is that something can be considered creative when there is a high degree of agreement on it being creative between educators experienced in teaching the age group that made it. So in the case of mechanical keyboards it would basically be: a keyboard is mechanical if a given group of people who are experienced with mechanical keyboards agree that it is mechanical.
I don't use the term "mechanical", but rather a technology-based name like a buckling spring keyboard, or a Cherry/Alps type/[put ur favorite switch here] switch keyboard, etc.
tbh I hate "mechanical" word when discussing about keyboards. It's very uncertain term that actually doesn't mean anything. Deskthority has awesome article that (in my opinion) should be used anywhere (at least for physical keyboards, but virtual/laser boards are something different) to describe keyboards, no mechanical(feel)/membrane bullshit. deskthority.net/wiki/Membrane_vs_rubber_dome Very helpful video that everyone should watch, maybe thanks to that there'll be a little bit less confusion about what a mechanical keyboard actually is.
What if the definition is "if the mechanism supports partway actuation", instead of "if the mechanism has partway actuation now"? What if the definition is "if the mechanism's key travel to downward force applied (between the forces in which the key is all the way up to bottomed out) is not significantly straight"? I am trying to think of the reasons I hear people like mechanical keys, and I tried to make a definition based on those preferences, instead of focusing too much on literal mechanical stipulations. Neither of these definitions prejudge based on material, and I am particularly pleased with the second one.
In my opinion it doesn't completely make sense, but anyway it started to be used to describe keyboards that were more complex than a standard rubber dome keyboard, and for the most it gets the job done. Probably it was a term chosen to describe that they are made with "hard" parts, pieces of machinery like coils and metal contacts in contrast to soft rubber, but then the term broadened to include also other keyboards as topre or IBM buckling keyboards. Kind of what happened to the word "pomodoro" in Italian (tomato in English), that literally means golden apple. It has been a while since tomatoes have not been yellow anymore, but we still call them like that. Something similar happen to the keyboard industry: they had to define mainly cherry boards, but as the market expanded with other options (and other older ones were rediscovered) we simply used the term for them too, I am pretty sure IBM never marketed their keyboards as mechanical! Nowadays the term just describes a keyboard designed to have a pleasant feel. Now I'd like to know what a "mechanical gaming mouse" is, a term I recently found!
Interesting video. I always understood the difference being something along the lines of: Rubber Dome: Membrane keyboard. Possibly a bad term for them, since it also lumps Topre in there which is just not right. If anything, maybe the less common term "membrane" is the one that we should be referring to here? Mechanical: Contains switches for each key in between the keycap and the PCB. So common Cherry MX keyboards would fit in here. Electro-Capacitive: Topre. 'Nuff said. Accurate or not, it's simple and I can understand it, so that's good enough for me until a better set of terms, definitions and comparisons are created.
Mechanical is like porn. You know it when you see it.
I love that one xD .
*keyboard ASMR*
dorstefan when u feel it*
@@Stackali you mean magical? :P
@@Chyrosran22 it's like chewing 5 gum
We could start delineating by "enthusiast" keyboards vs "non-enthusiast" keyboards. That's really what "mechanical keyboards" effectively indicates.
@VideoCommenter Yeah, I suppose I was thinking "enthusiast keyboards" as in "keyboards that currently only enthusiasts pursue." So old keyboards are not currently mainstream, and have become enthusiast because they're mostly only sought after by enthusiasts.
That's a fairly excellent point, I think!
let’s disqualify razer, logitech, corsair and whatever else keyboards you can buy from a “gaming” company; a company that sells gaming peripherals and computer hardware
@@amok00 Why disqualify keyboards on the basis of the company selling them? That's completely irrelevant, and spreading that kind of attitude stops people recognising when they make something good. It's pointless snobbery.
Doomguy commercial “gaming” keyboards are far from enthusiast level
My personal definition: "The ones that feel kinda switchey instead of gummy"
@@jalsol well, it's not a perfect definition. Just one that works for me
@@futurepig he was probably telling the other guy
@@jalsol You can also have a rubber dome keyboard feel hard when it bottoms out as well. It all depends on how it's designed.
Romer-G switches feel pretty gummy, alongside MX Browns. =P
There's some rubberdomes that feel switchey while there's mechanical keyboards which are mushy and gummy
The bob ross of vintage keyboards.
More like Gordon Ramsey.
@@B1tPixel lmao
If he was profusely angry and swore alot
A glorified mix of Gordon Ramsey and Bob Ross
Smooth voice but critical to shit keyboards
@@deekay1306 and Ross did the complete opposite. So- totally doesn't fit at all!!! He's totally unlike Ross in every respect but his voice, so... 🤣
Fun fact: Until rock music got somewhat accepted, it was categorized as "electronic music" because of their use of electric guitars and those damn kids.
I listen to heavily distorted electronic music.
those boomers need to listen to merzbow
guitarist in 1950 gets on stage with a semi-hollow guitar: A5
pre-boomers: *_confused screaming_*
This is like watching a doctorate degree coursework.
Heh, it's ironic that my doctorate is in chemistry, not keyboards xD .
@@Chyrosran22 dang you have a PhDs? Now I understand all the swearing
10:02 This definition actually has a really funny interaction with Steelseries’ Omnipoint switches (which if you didn’t know, are switches that use a magnet + pcb that detects magnetic strength to make the actuation point adjustable). If you set the actuation anywhere from 0.1mm to 3.9mm, it’s a mechanical switch, but the MOMENT you make it so that you have to bottom out, it stops being mechanical. Probably the worst offender of this definition.
Somewhere in the 1980s, I think, philosopher Richard Boy developed a theory called "the homeostatic cluster-property theory of metaethical naturalism"
Great name, I know. The point is that Boyd thought that they're concepts like Good and Evil, or in this case "Mechanical" that describe material reality, but are made up of a cluster of properties instead of a strict definition. Meaning that they're a lot of people things you might want to include in the property cluster of "mechanical" but we're never going to pin down exactly what those are and what they're not, because that's not how the concept works. The example Boyd used was health. They're a number of things that go into deciding if a person is healthy, like a beating heart or certain levels of blood pressure, good posture, whatever. But a person can be unhealthy while exhibiting some of the properties in the cluster and be healthy while missing some. Still, according to Boyd, these concepts, like good, evil, healthy and mechanical, are useful to have and can be objectively true. Or at least true in the same sense that scientific statements are.
The real problem with "mechanical" keyboards isn't the fact that there is no definition, but the fact that some people assume that mechanical keyboards are better than the rest (mainly rubber domehs) and it's sad because here I am feeling like the only keyboard I could switch to for longer than a week is a btc dome with slider one even though there is a ton of modern keyboards I like (for example ergodox) there is no way I could switch to them because none of modern cherry mx mount switches comes even close to IBM keyboards in term of keyfeel and btc dome with sliders aren't close either, but that's the point - they are so different and yet (with good keycaps) so satisfying to type on that they claimed a second spot in my heart after buckling springs.
>ome people assume that mechanical keyboards are better than the rest
yeah, that's the biggest problem, because why good rubber dome keyboard must be worse than actual cherry mx switch type board? Lots of people complain about "muh partway through actuation, 50/70/2137 milion keypresses that mean nothing when it comes to reliability issues, nkro (or worse: full antighosting) support and RGB(T) that is rather more visually appealing than actually helpful, because cheap desk lamp provides much better visibility when typing at night", why good keyboard from 1980s/1990s must be considered as worse, nevermind if it feels better or is at least as reliable as "mechanical" keyboard made in 2018?
you might like a bke dome swapped plum :P my favorite keyboard right now (though I'm hoping that changes when I finish building my custom)
@@Crokto there are several keyswitches I want to try out at some point because they seem like a good contestant for being the second and third favourite switches of mine (Alps SKCM Blue, Topreh with gray bke domes and zealio with 100g SPRiT springs), but because I live in poland there are almost no mechanical keyboard meet ups nearby so that's a bummer.
"none of modern cherry mx mount switches comes even close to IBM keyboards in term of keyfeel" I mean yeah, there's nothing like a Model M, F or a Beamspring, those are all in a class of their own, however I can recommend some modern MX mount switches I like.
Ace Pad Hall Effect, if you're okay with Linears, are really nice, reliable and smooth as butter.
Kailh BOX Navy have a really nice satisfying tactile click, if you're okay with the sound and an above average weight. They're nice and smooth too.
Royal Hakos, if you want a more tactile rubber dome-like rounded feel in a discreet switch. The tactile bump is right at the top and it pushes the slider past the contact point so as soon as you feel the tactile bump, you know it actuated. And they actively prevent you from bottoming out too, much like Cherry MX Clear only with a much more pronounced tactility. They are heavy, but they feel quite soft as you don't really bottom out that often. IMO, smoother and nicer than BOX Royals.
I have some low-cost rubber dome keyboards that are as pleasing to type on as keyboards costing ten times as much. Too bad they flex like hell.
That said, I have some 25 and 30 year old rubber dome keebs that feel great and are built like tanks.
My definition of mechanical keyboard: when Thomas has at least one in his closet. It's non-mechanical if he keeps it in his waste bin. Easy.
How about one where he is able to pick one up from a recycling center for 2 pounds or less.
What about smith corona
@@sp3ctum btc rubber domes and electro capacitive switches are technically not mechanical though they feel and sounds great
he keeps that terrible flexible keyboard around though lol
@@adolfazusa1138 Arguing about something being 'technically not mechanical'...it's like you didn't even watch the video.
I didn't think this video would turn philosophical.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you should start recording audio books. Seriously, you'd be fantastic for Robert Jordan or Brandon Sanderson storyline.
"If it doesn't feel like typing on shit, it's mechanical". There.
So cherry isnt mechanical?
It’s all subjective. Or is it. Tf the switch sits in a sturdy frame mounted in an even better case and not on an flimsy pcb losely inside a thin plastic shell then even a cherry key can do well at least If it’s not brown 🤢 or MY
@@theicycrook8373 reds and silvers are the only good cherry switches
@@umbra9705 reds are pretty bad as well
turns out buckling springs are mechanical, nice
As Diogenes once said, “BEHOLD, A MAN!”
Glad to see this video push through from that discussion we had in the comments a few videos back. I'm all for a pragmatic understanding of the term "mechanical". We use it merely to convey a broad, vague, and even arbitrary sense of what makes a keyboard better than the run-of-the-mill standard office rubber dome membranes, but that whenever we try to pin it down, a full solid definition will always evade us. I'd say its part of what makes this hobby so interesting; that we can't even properly delineate the clear limits of what constitutes a keyboard worth our interest (and therefore the criteria by which we can pre-judge keyboards as being such). I agree that we should all learn to just try a keyboard before judging it, but at the same time I think we can continue to accept that the term "mechanical" has its practical place in our parlance despite its ultimately non-rational meaning.
Oh, it definitely has its uses. It's a perfect term to advertise with, for example. Or if you're trying to explain why the keyboards you're so interested in are better than "normal" keyboards. But all this need to rigidly qualify things really does a lot of harm to for example keyboard innovation IMO.
@@Chyrosran22 Couldn't agree more. Case in point being the misguided way Cherry MX's market leadership has skewed views on keyboard quality. I literally have a friend who thinks that the scratchiness of his mid-2000's MX Blacks somehow make them feel more "mechanical", and hence why he thinks Flaretechs and Box switches feel "unmechanical" somehow. Still under that marketing-induced logic that says that because Cherry MX are industry standard, it means they're to be treated as the benchmark. It drives me nuts.
Anyway, I definitely enjoy these types of analysis videos, and I hope to see more.
Enjoying a philosophical approach to this hobby and Chyrosran22's academic ability to investigate the terminologies and technical issues of the topic!
One of your best videos so far! 😯
Thank you! :)
As I watched more videos and read articles and forum posts the "mechanical" in mechhanical keyboard became more of a marketing term than an actual category to me. As you mentioned the term mechanical involves a mechanism that moves.
How I categorize keyboard mechanisms now are something like this:
1. Membrane - Uses a membrane sheet or a rubber dome being pressed by a shaft to complete the circuit. This includes the "Mechanical-feel" keyboard that are just rubber domes.
2. Scissor Switch - Technically a subset of Membrane due to the use of rubber domes but is different due to the mecanism that presses on the rubber domes.
3. Optical - Uses light sensors to sense if a key is pressed.
4. Buckling Spring - IBM Model M and Model F (they're their own kind of beast).
5. Magnetic/Hall Effect - Uses magnetism properties to sense switch actuation.
6. Capacitive - Uses Capacitance to sense switch actuation like Topre.
7. "Mechanical" - Uses metal contacts to close a circuit and trigger the switch.
8. Mecha-Membrane - The weirdo that uses a mechanical shaft with multiple parts to press on a rubber dome.
9. Laser Projection - A category for the weird laser projection keyboards that have no moving parts and just projects its "keys" on a surface.
But meh at the end of the day when I talk to people about "mechanical" keyboards and switches we understand it as the type that has metal contacts to close a circuit and register a key.
The Membrane keyboard I liked the best is a KeyTronic E03601 (non ergoforce version) as it feels tactile to me while not being as creaky as modern rubber dome membrane boards and it is decently heavy to press which I quite like. It is still the best membrane keyboard I have though not working anynore due to the traces near the controller board failing I have it as a display piece on my shelf of old technology. It sits on top of VHS tapes and bootleg Sega MegaDrive games.
The Scissor Switch type I like due to the low travel, but they are very different from one model to another. Older ones tend to have a bit more travel than newer ones where they make them too thin that it feels like I'm tapping on solid plastic and not pressing anything or have sh*t keycaps that break easily. So far I have settled on the keyboards on IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads and use the ThinkPad Compact USB keyboard on my computer. It feels the best among the scissor switches I have tried but between the ThinkPad keyboards I somewhat prefer the newer chiclet (or Island style as they call it) versions as the older ones (non Island style) felt a bit mushy for me.
As for the typical Mechanical keyboard, I hate Blues or any clicky ones. I use Reds but would like to try other linear types if possible. Linear Reds may be more quiet but still a fair bit louder than the ThinkPad USB keyboard I have mentioned which is Scissor Switch.
your voice feels like an angel is slapping my face
YOUR HIIIIIIIIIDEOUS FACE
@Vox3l-Gl1tch stop.
I've had several of these thoughts before, and the end result is I've made an active effort to say "microswitched keyboard" instead of "mechanical keyboard". Which is really just trading one ambiguity for another, but at least I'm not defying all reasonable definitions of the word "mechanical".
Could you extend the final definition, to say 'the mechanism has the ability to actuate anywhere along the travel without fundamentally changing the design'? Or even just 'does not *require* bottoming out to actuate'.
The first one doesn't really work, because you don't FUNDAMENTALLY have to change most designs to make them such that they actuate on bottoming out, just slightly change the shape of some contact or piece of plastic. The second one has more merit, I think, but you can apply reverse logic to this to fail it. Some dome with slider switches don't require bottoming out, while others do, but the mechanism is fundamentally the same. It makes no logical sense to qualify one and disqualify the other (except for practical purposes of course).
@@Chyrosran22 Very interesting, didn't really think about dome with slider switches not requiring bottom out. I do agree with your line of thinking though, I think the term 'mechanical' is only essentially good for describing a certain 'feel' that the majority of people would agree is a desirable one. There seems to be every combination of method to achieve an actuation, so I wonder if it would be an interesting idea to do some sort of mechanical rating. Maybe certain elements could be considered 'mechanical' and others not, and you could deduce some sort of measure for 'how mechanical' a switch is from that. I know it's completely arbitrary, just a throwing ideas out because I can :D
@@malenky4057 heh, sure it makes sense to rate them, but you might as well go all out and rate them on quality already then ;) .
What most people consider a mechanical switch (at least subconsciously) is something that transforms the direct vertical motion of pressing a key into something else in order to detect a keystroke. Rubber domes over membranes don't do that, and instead translate motion of the key being pressed down onto the top membrane to press it against the other - in theory at least. In practice the mushiness of the rubber allows for a little overtravel and doesn't result in direct 1:1 translation of the key travel motion to the membranes, but that's more of a side effect of the properties of rubber than a design consideration.
I think the way a switch mechanism transforms the vertical keytravel into detecting keypresses can be used to categorize switches as mechanics, semi-mechanical, or otherwise if people can agree on what constitutes a transformation and how many and what kind of transformations constitute a switching mechanism being considered mechanical or otherwise.
Again, that just doesn't cut it. What about switches that have the contact motion vertically instead of horizontal? Or if I mounted the contacts from a Cherry MX switch vertically instead of horizontally, would it then cease to be mechanical? It's also very vague on what that would mean for Hall effect, capacitive, magnetic valve, etc. switches.
@@Chyrosran22 nah mate, he mean that if you can't smoke weed, and type at the same time, then it isn't mechanical fam
I've always liked your partway actuation definition, cuz at least for me that's what makes me hate typical rubber domes, and what I think frustrates most people about your typical office keyboard - the need to bottom out extra hard because some keys don't register when typing normally and others bind for no discernible reason.
So its a quality of manufacturing problem? Because Topres bottom out, and I've never seen anyone complain about them.
@@alexandrecosta2567 first of all, i can assure you that many people have complained about topre. but also, while topre certainly can bottom out because yeah duh, they actuate partway down, much like "normal" mechanical switches.
@@Crokto right, I still feel like quality plays a big role on the whole "enthusiast" market. Green alps are more valuable than salmon or blacks, and they're still alps
@@alexandrecosta2567 no doubt
The earliest breakdown of keyboard technologies that I've seen that specifically mentions "mechanical" as distinct from other technologies was in a PC Magazine roundup of "replacement" IBM PC keyboards in 1992. It listed "mechanical", "conductive rubber dome" and "membrane switches" as distinct technologies (and specifically did *not* consider the Model M mechanical). Mechanical keyboards were shown to be keyboards with a spring (though the text never actually mentioned this) and metal contacts actuated when the plunger pushed them against the metal sides of the mechanism, one side of which would reach down to the PCB. "Mechanical" was ill-defined even then, with the magazine noting that several "membrane" keyboards used mechanical spring actuators, allowing them to retain a mechanical feel "without compromise" (whatever that means). But the point is this term grew in an era when there were fewer keyboard technologies to distinguish, and in general they were more distinct. Even then, though, there was some overlap, and over time, manufacturers often made hybrid designs. But the term "mechanical" stuck, despite it losing more and more of its meaning over the years.
Nowadays I think it's basically a term to distinguish "rubber dome" from "everything else". Which is still a useful thing to do when talking about current production keyboards.
"Mechanical" has been used as a marketing term at least as early as the late 70s. In the 90s, everyone was just as brainwashed by marketing talk as people are now xD .
Why should the classification of mechanical keyboard/keyswitch be limited to one criteria? What other things are classified by only one criteria? I know things like planets for instance, have several requirements that must be met before they can be considered as such. Why should this be any different?
An idea for a top x video:
top x best built keyboards
And then the top x worst built keyboards, excluding projected ones and the godawful calculator type ones on the ZX spectrum.
top x most overpriced keyboards
top 10 best switch clones
@@deletedaccount966
1. That adjustable ergonomic Cherry MX Brown board, I forget the name of it
@@JackOfHarts96 2. Any hhkb
I have been using your definition "What we mean by mechanical keyboard is a keyboard in which the actuation happens approximately half-way of the key travel" and added my own "which must be at least 3 mm (~0.12 inch)", for months now, and it works very well, most of the time.
When I want to explain to someone why I prefer "mechanical" keyboards and what I mean by this, the "actuate before bottoming out" and "plenty of travel" points convey most of what I consider essential. It then becomes obvious to them why rubber domes over membranes and scissor switches are not considered "mechanical", even if most of the time people had not realized that they had to bottom out, sometimes pretty hard, to actuate the switch - but they understand when you point this out.
Some keyboards that do not fit the definition are still pleasant to use (some rubber dome over membranes produced in the 90s are fine, some laptop keyboards are absolutely usable), it's just that we do not call them "mechanical".
The mid-travel actuation is really important, as well as the travel length. These are the reasons why we love keyboards that feature both properties, even if these properties alone are not enough (it is still possible to create a really crappy keyboard that fits the above definition).
Interestingly, musical keyboards - pianos, organs, synthesizers, ... - also share both properties (at least the decent ones). No keyboardist would accept to have to bottom out to get a sound - that would get rejected right away.
It's an imperfect definition, and there will be exceptions, but I do not know of any better concise definition, so I thank you for introducing it.
Great video, could have been one of the very first in your channel :)
Your analysis makes all the sense, I agree what matters is our perception of the typing experience (sound and feel) regardless of how the device actually registers our fingers trying to activate different keys. The "mechanical" tag for keyboards seems indeed sort of discrimination-based only.
Mechanical in general should just mean that there are ***moving solid parts*** in the device, regardless of materials or operating principle. If anything solid other than our fingers needs to move for a key to activate, then it is ***mechanical*** . If only electromagnetic fields or photons "move" or change, but nothing solid other than our fingers move during the typing, only then it would clearly be ***non-mechanical*** .
Almost all keyboards are therefore mechanical, except laser virtual ones, or touchpad/touch screens.
That very same definition of mechanical is what distinguishes a normal spinning harddrive disk (mechanical because it has moving parts) from an SSD (non-mechanical, because it has no moving parts.)
Nobody can give a definition of mechanical but everyone knows what you mean when you say it. Non-mechanical = the cheap rubber domes we're all familiar with, touchscreens, projected keyboards. Mechanical = everything else, everything "desirable" but 90% of the time people just mean Cherry MX.
It's the same question as "are videogames art" I guess, with pretty much the same answer: don't get hung up on terminology too much or you lose sight of what really matters.
honestly I think that the rubber dome-less definition works. I don't count dome with slider as mechanical
as for the capacitive touchscreen ones, I think there should be a level of common sense, it has to move downwards when you press it.
Could you please tell me what kb is the one at 1:25?
Razer Ornata
We're all mechanical here. :D
Great choice of topic as it's one that comes up frequently. I also don't think it matters much, since there are a lot of factors that go into deciding if you like the feel of a keyboard.
Glad someone made a video like this because in my mind anything with moving parts is a mechanical keyboard which includes regular dome keyboards.
Honestly some dome keyboards are good. I am older and grew up on old keyboards with alps etc. My first pc was a commodore 64 and I have no problems on quality dome keyboards. Never any missed keys as long as they are good ones. I still have a old G15 I use allot and the domes on it are good, they bind up quickly near the top of the stroke and once they release they always bottom out there is no half pushes... if it makes the tactile feeling half way then it goes the rest of the way and makes contact every time, I can't get it past the bump without contact even if I try.
As you say technically any moving keyboard is mechanical. In reality, the term Mechanical Keyboard comes from the switches, being two metal contacts that engage to make contact, then disengage. With that, technically a Magnetic Reed Switch is mechanical, whereas all the rest are not really.
Enjoyed it a lot. You introduced so many switch types and KB models to explain your points that it felt like visiting a KB museum. Keep the vids coming!
Maybe the definition of mechanical keyboards may be that: "They are keyboards that aren't made JUST with a membrane and rubber domes."
digital keyboards tho
crispy space agency just add "moving parts" to the definition
I'd also specify the exclusion of keyboards that are just a membrane and nothing else
whatever definition you land on, someone can always make something that lands in the middle. As long as it's intuitive and catches most cases, I'd be ok with it.
For me? springs.
Has individual rubber switches that feel great? ok, not mechanical. I'm fine with that.
Has a single sheet with sewn-in springs that feel awful? sure, mechanical. I'm not getting it, but it works on springs.
@@MadsterV as Thomas said though, the best idea would be to give up entirely on the term "mechanical" and refer to older keyboards as "vintage" and newer ones as "enthusiast"
@@plazasta no. Immediately when you get into this hobby you learn that's inadequate. Old Soviet terminal keyboards are built to military specs, and will last long after we today are all dead. The same years, Eastern European clones of ZX Spectrum have really awful keyboards, often can't be repaired. Same vintage (or same degree of newness, depending on your point of view) Soviet military tech, you want to qualify as "mechanical", No one wants to call even the original Speccy keyboard, "mechanical". Both are "vintage", though.
Nice thought provoking commentary. Changed my view, on a couple points. I think you're right, we're never going to have one commonly adhered to definition of mechanical keyboards because our general view of them is one based on a "feeling" and feelings are purely subjective by the individual. But after listening to this video, I'm perfectly happy with a definition in the broadest sense that incorporates any physical keyboard that someone might like, even if I'm not fond of it myself. (Like rubber domes).
I explained exactly this to a friend the other day. Mechanical being opposed to solid state, such as a mechanical drive vs a solid state drive. All keyboards are mechanical excluding solid state ones. I suppose technically defining it would be more about what you exclude rather than what you include. Essentially, the way I understand it when someone says mechanical is "Any keyboard that is not straight bottom out feel typically to mean a dome of some kind over a membrane or some sort of solid state simulacrum of a physical keyboard, such on displays of keyboards or visual displays." My personal definition is that a mechanical keyboard would be any keyboard that includes more than two parts between your find and the actuation. This includes all contactless switches I am aware of as well as topra, foam and foil and ibm switches. Think about it, straight up rubber domes rely on you pushing a keycap which pushs a dome which makes direct contact to a membrane, those weird "My First Keyboard" style contacts are a sheet of plastic that pops up and down to make contact. Smart phones use just your finger for conduction. In other words, if you remove the keycap and can push directly on a single mechanism that directly contacts and returns all in one piece then it really isn't "mechanical" Topra you push on a dome that pushes down a spring that makes contact; Not sure if this holds up 100%, but I think it's at least a better way of defining it than others and has more to do with "mechanism of operation" and is material independent. You could also say that it "must include a spring force that is separate in operation from the actuation mechanism." IE define in terms of complexity of the mechanism.
Nice discourse on what defines mechanical keyboards. I do have a feeling that people who use the term use "mechanical keyboard" as a compound noun rather than "mechanical" as an adjective to "keyboard", which is where all of the confusion lies. If you were to use "mechanical" as an adjective to "keyboard", then just about every keyboard that contains moving parts of some sort should probably qualify. But if "mechanical keyboard" is taken as a compound noun, then I also agree that people can and will define what it is based on seemingly arbitrary criteria. What they do have in common is that 1) people stand by keyboards they consider "mechanical keyboards" and 2) they are superior to those that are not considered as such.
For myself, a decided non-enthusiast who is a little bit curious, I would consider something like "commoditized replaceable keycaps" to be a defining characteristic of a mechanical keyboard: I can purchase key caps separately from the rest of the keyboard and apply them as I see fit, and I can transfer them from one keyboard to another keyboard of substantially different construction. Of course, this definition is dumb, arbitrary, and excludes keyboards that are prized by the community simply because of something like "no longer being manufactured", and it says nothing about the details that enthusiasts obsess over.
All in all, I believe that mechanical keyboards are defined descriptively rather than prescriptively - they employ certain specific parts that are made by these certain manufacturers, specifically excluding those that are not on a specific list that changes over time. The rationale for including and excluding certain parts are entirely subjective and arbitrary, sure, but it seems like people tend to put the same parts in their list, so I presume parts found in a lot of peoples' lists define the mechanical keyboard of today...
I think the definition is about the complexity of the switch. To call something a mechanism it should be a bit more than pressing down a contact on a contact pad against the force some rubber or simple spacer exerts. it there is a click, metal part (not just a thin coating on a foil) that significantly changes it's position, that's more like a mechanism. it's about the heft of the movement. You said multiple times, the mechanism does not care what material it is made of. I think it does. If it is a mechanism that is supposed to last a few times, that material should be more than just rubber, plastic or foil. Of course even a lid on a tupperware is some kind of mechanism by its dictionary definition, but not in a sense that matters here. "Mechanical" Keyboards is short for 'Complex, long lasting mechanism switch keyboards of a certain quality'. At least to me. There are some rubber keyboards that say they are 'mechanical' because the keycaps hit the mounting board just at the right moment so you have some tactile feedback. I would say, yes, this adds complexity, and is a mechanism (but a bad one) - it does not improve lifespan. So it is mechanical-like but not really. and i think most switches you mentioned are in my definition (That should be) and most of the ones you don't want are out. So just include 'quality' in the term 'mechanical' and we are good... :)
you could kinda make this argument with almost any word
like, whats a "door" ?
an entrance to a building? is a window a door? if i break a hole through your wall is that a door? does it have to have hinges? sliding doors dont have hinges. what if its not the entrance to a building? is a gate to a fenced off area a "door"? what if you burn a house down but the door still stands and can open and close properly, but most of the houses walls and roof are completely missing? is that still a door? its not an entrance to a building anymore
at the end of the day, words are just tools we use to convey practical meaning, when i say "door" you can picture a door, probably all kinds of doors, and you know what the point of a door is
at the end of the day our goal is always just to communicate our ideas effectively as we can through the obtuse and imprecise medium of language. So if you want to tell someone that a keyboard is "mechanical" but arent sure if it qualifies, it might just be better to tell them the practical benefits of the keyboard, like if its more responsive or satisfying to use. Basically it just comes down to what you said at the end; "Who cares if it adheres to some random definition anyways?"
tl;dr: it doesnt really matter just use whatever typey thing gets the words down good
For me mechanical movement is perfectly clear, like in the suspension of a car you can count springs and triangles or leafsprings but not the bouncy effect of the tyres due to the airpressure. Is it so difficult?
That's not a definition, that's a gut feeling :p .
@@Chyrosran22 That is the difference between scientists, engineers and mechanics.Some like to make the world so difficult where is is perfectly clear for 98% of the practical group (Thats imperial: one fry short of a happy meal)
For the "no need to bottom out" definition, wouldn't that also include overly sensitive touchscreens that register your "touches" before your finger even touches the screen?
I've never actually thought of this, mostly because i am new to the "MK" fandom and didn't know there were so many different switches that had such a particular set of parts to it.
Having watched the video to the end the only definition of mechanical keyboard i could come up with is:"A Keyboard in which the switches are composed of multiple parts specifically designed to convey the user a specific feel: linear, tactile, clicky or any combination of the three. As long as the parts used for the actuation of the switch are not limited to just pushing in on a rubber dome to stop electric current flowing trough a PCB, it is considered Mechanical Keyboard"
A bit long winded, my original thought in fact was to exclude older switches which are not manufactered anymore since the term got more popular recently AND they are the most problematic: They may include a rubber dome as the actuating method, but also contain different "mechanical parts" so excluding the "pushing of a rubber dome to stop electric current flowing trough a PCB"
as an actuating method for a mechanical keyboard was out of the question. Then again, cancelling the history of the "mechanical keyboard" by ignoring the existance of these historical switches would just be dumb, and quite unrespectful to the pioneers that made the mechanical keyboards we have now possible.
When my old rubber dome keyboard started causing hand stress, sticky keys, letters worn down to invisibility, I begin to explore the world of keyboards. In the end, I selected an inexpensive, clicky, RGB keyboard from Amazon. I have been so happy with how much easier it is to type on it, I love how this sound reminds me of the days when I used old-school type writers, and the back lighting makes it easy to find numbers if I type into the dark hours of the evening. I may touch type, but I’ve never been good at typing numbers. Maybe someday I will get to try out the fabulous Topre or old-school IBM keyboards. But for now I am really happy with these clicky and fast keys.
1:13 anyone know where to get one of those alps switch testers? Or was that soldered together by that one owner?
My own and *personal* definition is:
_"A keyboard which its keys present a mechanism over the plate in which those are mounted"._
This excludes traditional membrane, tactile screens, virtual keyboards and the laser keyboard whilst including topre, cherry, ibm model m or f, etc.
I still think that there's something very important in your 'partway actuation' approach. I'd be quite confident on replying to family and friends that ask about mechanical keyboards that they are those 'whose switches are designed in a way that allows for partway actuation, and are most often built and set up in such a way - although you could choose to build or modify the switches so that the actuation is at the very bottom of the key-press, like most widely available office keyboards require you to do'
I’ve been hoping for a video from you on this subject. Spot-on.
This is a late contribution, but I think you touched on something important near the end: the term "mechanical" is useful to describe how a keyboard feels.
Perhaps this would actually be the best definition of a mechanical keyboard -- a keyboard that "feels" mechanical? This would likely include everything that one would like to include (I think Topre feels more or less mechanical, for example), while excluding the common rubber dome keyboard.
The only problem are the "mechanical" switches that don't feel mechanical. On the other hand, any definition has outliers that are hard to define, and there's always an exception that proves the rule...
Interesting video. Wouldn't mind more videos along this style if you had anything else you wanted to go on about because you show your care about the topic and your experience pulls through too.
Wow, points for how extremely well you are able to break down the definition.
i'm not sure i get the complication. i always felt it was if it was made of stiff parts. i guess that's close to the same as four and i don't really get the counter-arguments there. that just feels like a list of non-mechanical options that range from less to more mushy and some people may like those options and call the less mushy half "mecha-membrane" or w/e and that's fine, so it doesn't seem to not function as a dividing line.
Here's my definition for switches:
A 'membrane' switch is a switch wherein the stem of the keycap directly interacts with a rubber dome, which interacts with a membrane below.
These are usually plagued by a large amount of mush, though it is not a requirement
mecha-membrane and mem-chanical switches fall under this, as their keycaps directly touch a rubber dome
A 'digital' switch is one that has no moving parts.
touchscreen, digital, and projected keyboards
A 'Mechanical' switch is anything that does not fall under the previous categories
In practice, Mechanical usually refers to a physical keyboard or switch that is not a 'membrane' switch as described above, as such I feel my definition of mechanical keyboard is sufficient
TL;DR:
A "Mechanical Keyboard" is a physical keyboard where the keystrokes are not registered by the stem of the keycap directly interacting with a rubber dome.
I hadn't thought too deeply about the idea, but the way you took this concept and ran it though the wringer, I do have to agree: Mechanical definement by basis of actuation method is a bit mad.
What if it were defined by the capacity of the switch’s design to actuate before bottoming out?
I personally don't use the term from what I've noticed. It doesn't really make a difference because at the end of the day, the switch has to feel good for typing or gaming and has to conform to the individual user's preferences. That means that I honestly would rather use a rubber dome or buckling spring for gaming than any cherry mx switch.
Watched this back and forth for three years. Here's my own criteria for "mechanical" keyboards.
- Registering keypresses must have noticeable key travelling (excludes all solid state keyboards like touch screen)
- Each keyboard parts or components except electronics must have only one or two purposes, excluding cosmetic or acoustic feedback (this excludes rubberdome over membrane & PCB keyboards since rubber mats act as key travel element, tactility, downstroke/upstroke dampener, and membrane pusher/carbon contact, but it does include Model F/M since the clicky noise is disregarded)
- It should be serviceable enough, i.e., each components are interchangeable, replaceable, and shouldn't be difficult to substitute parts from different keyboard models or third parties (this also excludes cheap membrane keyboards).
so, would you say that a defining characteristic of a "mechanical" keyboard, being that a keypress registers as actuated before the key physically reaches the end of its travel?
I have never thought about it that way! Love the conclusion of what do you think it feels like? If it's good then it's great for you.
Thank you - this really cleared up a lot of confusion for me
Honestly, I think the best thing would be to just say what the switch type is. Microswitch, foam and foil, buckling spring, hall effect, etc.
Before I watch the vid: to me a mechanical keyboard is a board with discrete switches, over a sensing mechanizm of some sort, with removable key caps, where the key remains fully functional even with the cap off.
And yes, I know it's kind of 'tricky' with some model M for example with single piece caps, but you could still push down the spring itself and get the mechanizm to function.
It disqualifies all foam and foil switches, some types of magnetic valve, and other switches that require an external spring to function, though ;) . Same goes for the Model F.
Eh... Well there goes that I guess ;) At least wa all 'know' when a board is mechanical, even if we can't agree on a 100% accurate definition, eh?
Not to mention, you can push down a rubber dome without the keycap too.
I almost never use the 'M word'. When the subject comes up I say that I like big loud clicky keyboards that are built like tanks, though I'm starting to also like a few other types.
I also try to not use that word, as there are more descriptive ways to describe how a keyboard feels. Not to mention that I've used used the dictionary definition before, for example to describe the different types of keyboard covers available for the Microsoft Surface line.
I think the consensus is " are mechanical, are not mechanical, everything else is a gray area." Your "actuates partway down" is definitely the best actual definition I'm aware of, though.
Perhaps we can learn from the US Supreme Court's definition of Pornography, in this instance ....
ie. _you know it when you see it_
or, I suppose, you know it when you feel it, in this case.
I was going to comment basically the same thing. I think it totally applies here.
That definition isn't even good for it's purpose let alone this lol
@@psider1522 it comes down to an exercise in power. It's not "good" as in intellectually satisfying. But judges, for example, have this power to declare something pornographic, and are going to exercise it no matter what. Which is why this is actually a good thing, more honest. The alternative might be for courts to decide nothing legally qualifies as porn, which you might personally like, but is not going to happen. The alternative could result in many more things being ruled as porn. BTW, for drug analogs, it's up to each judge in every individual case to decide how a previously unknown drug qualifies. For example, before being outlawed, MXE could be considered an analog of Schedule III ketamine, therefore totally legal; or else an analog of PCP, Schedule I, so they'd throw the book at you, no matter how unjustified from a chemical, or possibly pharmacological, point of view. It's unfair, but if that's the charge against you, wouldn't you like the judge to be able to decide your stash was legal and you are free to go, even get your drugs returned to you! Only to be plunged into suicidal depression when your idiot senators and congresspeople decide to specify it in a law. Or so I've heard that's how you might feel. 😉
I think my personal best definition would be something that actuates midway through. Because not knowing anything at all about mechanical keyboard, that's the one thing that got me interested in it
your typical cherry style, topre, alps, optical, hall effect etc. count only ones that doesn't are rubber dome, mem-chanical and solid state keyboards
If I didn't have my Unicomp Model M, I would just have to have a WASD V2 or CODE with Cherry MX Greens for the stiffness and clicking, but they just don't have the weighty heft of buckling springs. They're arguably a bit stiffer than buckling springs, but the tactile event occurs partway through and can also bottom out afterwards while buckling springs always activate tactility when bottoming out.
Perhaps a definition could be "a switch that slides to close a circuit not utilizing a mat of rubber domes"?
A mechanical keyswitch is any keyboard switch that uses the flipping of a mechanical switch as the means of completing a circuit. And Pseudo Mechanical key-switches are keyboard switches that have a feel and sound similar to mechanical key-switch but uses an alternative mechanism to complete to the circuit I.E. Buckling springs, Topre, Hall effect, Optical switches, etc...
is that good definition
Not really, your definition includes the thing to be defined xD .
what about "if it uses a rubber dome DIRECTLY on the key" or something along those lines?
By that definition dome with slider switches are mechanical just because the slider isn't part of the stem. It makes no sense xD . And again, touchscreens etc.! ;)
Hi Thomas! Thanks for providing us with a shit load of awesome content! I grew up in my dad's computer workshop in the late 80s and 90s, and since they didn't really cater to a particular brand of computers, everything came through the store - home computers with rubber caps, rubber domes and the occasional model M. Now, being in my mid 40s, I find myself somewhat nostalgic for the keyboards of the old days, while also being quite critical of quality and esthetics. I'm currently testing if Varmilo VA88M with blue's is a good fit for me, but while it has the click I was looking for, the charcoal caps really aren't working out for me. I rarely need to read the caps, but when I do, I prefer not to squint and use a flashlight. Honestly, with my eyes, the caps on this keyboard is only readable for about an hour around high noon. I wouldn't say I'm in the market for high contrast yet, but I'd go for something a little less charcoaly.
Anyway, enough blabbering - question time: the TKL keyboard in your video around 1:08 and the 100% around 12:08 has some of the most delicious 70s/80s style keycaps I've seen in a long time. Not just the shape, but also the color theme. Could I trouble you for the make and model of keyboard and/or caps? :-)
Firstly yes. It's mainly a mark of being enthusiast/luxury grade hardware. Second is being able to customize it. And i'd say the importatnt part of keyboard being "mechanical" for me is it's ease of repair and maintenance. Like it's pretty hard to clean and repair membrane keyboard, so i find spending a lot of money on them to be a very bad idea. You're essentialy screwed when something goes wrong with membrane or single board keyboards. Upd. I though about it, and i think everything except rubber domes should be considered mechanical. Topre should be half mechanical or mechanical too, since there aren't a lot of them, just like hall effects, so let them be mechanical too.
If you are still looking for material for a top 10 list, might I suggest both top 10 best build quality and top 10 worst build quality keyboards?
1:08 what keyboard is that?
If one must refer to keyboards as mechanical, how about, "A keyswitch is mechanical if it contains X number of moving/working parts for actuation?" Like, 2 or something, depending on what you consider a moving/working part. And this would ignore things like the keycap and the contacts/contact points on the keyboard. A standard rubber dome keyboard consists of a single sheet of said domes you push directly on to the contact point, and would be considered only one moving/working part per "keyswitch," for instance. Topre and Model M switches use multiple parts despite their membraney nature, so they would be included. The Oki tactile gourd spring wouldn't count as mechanical due to it's single part nature (despite being really cool). This definition should ignore stigma, keyfeel, as well as the quality of the keyswitch, allowing for the best, objective definition I can think of so far. Does this work, or am I missing something?
Couldn't you just define mechanical as a switch that uses hard substances only to to carry out the process of pressing a key. Note that this can still include keyboards that Have a rubber dome mat underneath the key but use hard plastics and metals for the function of key pressing. This definition excludes rubber domes, dome with slider, and foam with foil. Would that work?
No, in fact I don't think it actually DOES exclude rubber domes, the keycap and stem are still hard after all. Besides, think about it, why would a mechanism care about the hardness of its materials?
Fair enough. My stance was based on the mechanism of the key rather than the keycap and stem. I should have been A bit more clear, but that said you are right. A mechanism doesn't care. about the hardness of its pieces I was just trying to make the distinction of characteristic a large amount of keyboards either have or lack.
Buckling springs are generally "mechanical" despite actuating when bottoming out, but also being tactile and having a loud click to them, or despite having a membrane version and a capacitive version in IBM's case.
Buckling springs actuate before bottoming out.
@@Chyrosran22 Right. What I meant to say was that the tactility is partway on Cherry MX and others, while in my experience, the tactility on buckling springs hits and then they don't bottom out much further. They are stiff and hefty.
@@pip5528 no, the tactility is about halfway through, really. Google a force curve and you'll see ;) .
@@Chyrosran22 Now that I think about it, it does indeed actuate slightly before bottoming out after having slowly pressed my Unicomp keys some more. it is certainly more comfortable than rubber domes and MX-style switches combined.
People often put Topre into the "electrostatic capacitive keyboard" category, which is considered a different category entirely from mechanical keyboards. So I guess the Model F or the Beam Spring aren't mechanical keyboards at all, they're electrostatic capacitive keyboards.
You're about to offend the PCMR crowd with your logic and facts.
I think one blanket rule for whether or not a keyboard can be considered mechanical is a bad idea, but the best I can come up with is whether the action of pushing down the switch creates the contact or allows the switch to make the contact for you. that mostly boils down to if anything moves off-axis from or at a different rate than the user input, it's a mechanical switch.
I also don't think "mechanical" is necessarily a good thing, or that "not mechanical" is necessarily bad. optical switches are great, but they're not mechanical. mx blues aren't great, but they are mechanical
What about hardware in which its switches are not entirely rubber? Is this what makes a mechanical keyboard, or I have holes in this definition?
You could argue that's already the case for rubber dome keyboards already. Besides, there are metal dome keyboards that work exactly the same as rubber domes. And how about if they stuck a random bit of metal foam somewhere in the switch, would it suddenly be mechanical then?
Considering the definitions you have evoked, it seems that people consider a keyboard mechanical if, 'the actuating mechanism is more than one part, and therefore appearing more "mechanical."'
So it would appear that we are in a sticky state where people value systems that include a number of parts which metanymically are associated with a well designed machine, and less so if the mechanism is good on its own merits. In a nutshell, people seem to care more that they perceive the mechanism as more complex and therefore 'mechanical'. Mechanical is being used as an adjective that has lost its modifier.
I would love to hear your opinion on this. :)
Yes, that is a fair point. I'd go so far as to dumb it down to the term's only use being an excuse to exhibit favouritism and nothing more.
Any criterion involving part counts is moot anyway, as it's very hard to nail down how many "parts" a switch has in some cases, especially if it regards indivisible or shared parts. For example, you could envision a Model M switch' part count to be anything ranging from 1 to 7 (i.e. from just the spring+flipper assembly to stem + barrel + spring + flipper + 3 membranes).
@@Chyrosran22 That is interesting because I would think that it would be rather demonstrable in that example of the IBM buckling spring that it would be 'percieved' as 'more mechanical' than a sheet of rubber domes. I totally agree though, the word's use is definitely less to do with the quality of the mechanism, and more to do with showboating.
Also seeing as the slider is considered a part of the switch, would you consider a keycap with a stem (i.e. single part buckling spring caps, rubber dome caps) a part of the switch?
But Thomas, what if i like the corona leaf springs?
Don’t know how it took so long for this video to crop up for me. I’ve probably viewed 50 of your videos before buying my Unicomp Ultra Classic over a year ago.
Anyway - great job here! Wonderful content and very thought provoking.
I think often about how arbitrary it seems to call a membrane keyboard “not” mechanical. Obviously, it is a machine. It has parts that are assembled and designed to move repeatedly to perform a task. It’s not organic, it’s manufactured (by other mechanical things, no less).
All said, I still prefer using the Unicomp, when noise allows. It’s apparently the machine for me.
I do not use "Mechanical" or "Non-Mech" to refer to Keyboards. I class them into "Rubber" (Where rubber is the primary element, like in a sheet), "Modified Rubber" (This includes switches like Dome with Slider and Hybrid), "Non-Rubber" (What I people traditionally call "Mechanical"), and "Other" (which would be the laser projector and software keyboards).
This is a good discussion of the bizarre debate surrounding “mechanical” keyboards. This debate is not found to this level of absurdity in other parts of the computing world. We know what SSD vs HDD storage defines. We know what we are getting with HDMI vs VGA. Different resolutions are based on easily-understood pixels. As you said “industry jargon.” The point of finding the right keyboard among all the choices seems like it should be “does it do the thing I want it to do well? Is it in my budget? Will it still be doing what I expect it to do for as long as I expect it to?” Beyond that, when researching any product based on a subjective quality like a keyboard’s “feel,” others’ opinions should always be taken with a grain of salt. In the end, if you like a keyboard, that’s what matters!
A similar issue as raised in this video arises when you try to define creativity in the context of art and music, especially in the context of education such as grading a students composition on the basis of creativity.
The definition that a lot of music education researchers have come to agree on is that something can be considered creative when there is a high degree of agreement on it being creative between educators experienced in teaching the age group that made it.
So in the case of mechanical keyboards it would basically be: a keyboard is mechanical if a given group of people who are experienced with mechanical keyboards agree that it is mechanical.
I don't use the term "mechanical", but rather a technology-based name like a buckling spring keyboard, or a Cherry/Alps type/[put ur favorite switch here] switch keyboard, etc.
You forgot the definition, "Because I said so."
Philosophy 101: What is the fundamental nature of a mechanical keyboard ft. Socrates
tbh I hate "mechanical" word when discussing about keyboards. It's very uncertain term that actually doesn't mean anything.
Deskthority has awesome article that (in my opinion) should be used anywhere (at least for physical keyboards, but virtual/laser boards are something different) to describe keyboards, no mechanical(feel)/membrane bullshit.
deskthority.net/wiki/Membrane_vs_rubber_dome
Very helpful video that everyone should watch, maybe thanks to that there'll be a little bit less confusion about what a mechanical keyboard actually is.
What if the definition is "if the mechanism supports partway actuation", instead of "if the mechanism has partway actuation now"?
What if the definition is "if the mechanism's key travel to downward force applied (between the forces in which the key is all the way up to bottomed out) is not significantly straight"?
I am trying to think of the reasons I hear people like mechanical keys, and I tried to make a definition based on those preferences, instead of focusing too much on literal mechanical stipulations.
Neither of these definitions prejudge based on material, and I am particularly pleased with the second one.
In my opinion it doesn't completely make sense, but anyway it started to be used to describe keyboards that were more complex than a standard rubber dome keyboard, and for the most it gets the job done. Probably it was a term chosen to describe that they are made with "hard" parts, pieces of machinery like coils and metal contacts in contrast to soft rubber, but then the term broadened to include also other keyboards as topre or IBM buckling keyboards. Kind of what happened to the word "pomodoro" in Italian (tomato in English), that literally means golden apple. It has been a while since tomatoes have not been yellow anymore, but we still call them like that. Something similar happen to the keyboard industry: they had to define mainly cherry boards, but as the market expanded with other options (and other older ones were rediscovered) we simply used the term for them too, I am pretty sure IBM never marketed their keyboards as mechanical! Nowadays the term just describes a keyboard designed to have a pleasant feel. Now I'd like to know what a "mechanical gaming mouse" is, a term I recently found!
Interesting video. I always understood the difference being something along the lines of:
Rubber Dome: Membrane keyboard. Possibly a bad term for them, since it also lumps Topre in there which is just not right. If anything, maybe the less common term "membrane" is the one that we should be referring to here?
Mechanical: Contains switches for each key in between the keycap and the PCB. So common Cherry MX keyboards would fit in here.
Electro-Capacitive: Topre. 'Nuff said.
Accurate or not, it's simple and I can understand it, so that's good enough for me until a better set of terms, definitions and comparisons are created.
I feel like I"m listening to Jemaine Clement talk about muh keyboards. It's so pleasing.
@Chryosan22 What about defining a threshold for key travel distance?