Crosswind calamity - landing plane 'blown' off runway side!
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- Ironic that by far the most dramatic landing I've ever seen should happen during a period of almost no arrivals at Birmingham Airport (BHX). 22 May 2020 had a far stronger wind all day than had been forecast, peaking in its ferocity around the time this West Atlantic ATP turboprop arrived. It was a true crosswind, with an occasional tailwind component around that time - about as difficult as it gets. This landing was this aircraft's second attempt - the first (go-around) can be seen at • Amazing go-around - Ma... . The current video is being used by the Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) in the UK as part of their inquiry into this runway excursion (reference: aircraft SE-MAO).
Thank you for being out there for the million normal landings that nobody will watch. And capturing the one that everybody will want to see.
This landing is the subject of an Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) inquiry, in part using this video, and a report is expected in 6-12 months.
Amazing mate, awesome you were able to contribute to the investigation. You were definitely at the right place at the right time👍
Landing?? That was a crash.
Nunya Bidnez you are not wrong! Got the accident right on the second attempt👍
If you look at the ailerons at 1:28 , it would appear that the control column is being used to try and ‘steer’ the aircraft back onto the centreline. While this might seem intuitive, the upwind aileron should actually be deflected up! With the left wing down and full right rudder they may have been able to regain directional control, but instead they just ended up wheelbarrowing on the right main gear.
Martin Neep you are absolutely right, that right aileron deflection (instead of left aileron deflection)and no rudder deflection at all to regain directional control caused the aircraft to depart the runway, hard lesson to learn, at this level you expect proper instinctive response.
Could it be a company operating jets as well ?
Might explain unproper touch down technique...
Unstable from 1:04
Should have touch the main wheel into the wind
Flap back to 15 deg ( kill the lift + ready for go around)
Ground control....
Was there a pilot in the plane ?
There was some panic there...
We used to take more than 36 kts with 748 on gravel runway, the plane can take a lot !
Yann Connan If the ATP is anything like the 146 or other BAe aircraft, then there is no rudder-fine nosewheel steering via the rudder pedals. Maybe they jumped onto the tiller in the hope to regain directional control, but with the aircraft not being in firm contact with the surface, it was ineffective.
I don't get the impression that the crosswind was beyond the capability of the aircraft but I do get the impression that it was beyond the capability of the pilot.
The rudder of the ATP is fairly small in comparison with the Fuselage / Rudder ratio
@@broddsaviation5471 shame they didnt use the ailerons
@@od9898 you're wrong. If you look close enough they did use the ailerons,but on the downwind wing ...
I love how they’re like right must get back onto runway before someone sees so we can pretend that didn’t happen 😂
If the pilot had only biflurated the intake valve, the coefficient tardiness of the flare elongnaters could have expectorated the differential thingamajigs to achieve bilateral confusion. That would have eliminated him dancing through the tulips.
uh, duh, everyone knows this...common knowledge
You were on a roll until you used thingamajig. Then it just became ridiculous.
I agree with you exactly! However, not everyone is as smart as we are! Lol
Pretentious alert
My most interphrastic contrafibularities for such phrasmotic modulicitations! ( ua-cam.com/video/hOSYiT2iG08/v-deo.html )
It seems from the very beginning, the pilot was not on the centerline. In crosswinds you want the aircraft right on it. As this is a turboprop, the correct technique for the touch down is to put the aircraft in a sideslip, by using the rudder to align the aircraft longitudinal axis with the centerline, while at the same time using the opposite ailerons to prevent the upwind wing from lifting up. This way, the upwind wheel usually makes the first contact with the runway. After landing, the aileron into the wind should be maintained to prevent the upwind wing from lifting off. This is particularly important in a smaller aircraft as they are more susceptible to this.
In this case, the pilot failed to apply enough right rudder for the alignment and the aircraft landed in a crab (sideways). After the touch down, the weak rudder input resulted in the aircraft veering to the left.
Usually, with enough frictional forces, the aircraft automatically aligns with the runway even after a crabbed landing. This is true for most heavy jets due to their weight and the extension of spoilers which effectively kills the lift and puts in more frictional load on the wheels. For turboprops this does not happen and the aircraft wings continue to generate lift and the wind keeps attacking the wing. This is the reason why when the pilot applied the wrong ailerons, the left wheel lifted up and caused the aircraft to further weathercock into the wind.
I have many hours on medium sized turboprops. And in a crosswind, after landing you always keep the aileron into the wind to ensure good ground steering.
Now that's gonna' be a lot of paper work!
Hahaha
And a need for clean undies
This is an incredible catch. I vividly remember a couple of harrowing experiences I had while making a crosswind landing when working on my private pilot's license. There's no easy way to master them. It takes time and experience. This video reflects an extreme crosswind component. I'm guessing that this landing was very near the maximum envelope allowed for this model of aircraft.
..and I'm thinking he didn't have enough fuel for another go around.
@@juzzlookin Agreed, or a diversion.
Sometimes, not landing the airplane is the mark of a good pilot. Pressing on into dicey conditions requires more luck than skill to survive. I've flown for 40 years and not making stupid decisions is why I'm still here.
No schedule or "important passenger" is worth my life.
The airplane could handle that landing. Not the idiot pilot.. Student pilot errors, many.. A Fake Flyer i see. Im a CFI..
My comments in the first “landing” attempt video just proven emphatically. To all who argued in support of this crew..... if you think this and the previous attempt are acceptable levels of professional airmanship, then it might be time for you to think about hanging up the headset😉.
Good boy Sparky give yourself a biscuit.....and by all means keep stroking the ego frail as it is.
David Oldham awww somebody got burnt. Better than what you’re stroking champ😘
and321now generation x here my friend so bit late to the party to be boomer era. If there were “modern CRM” at work here then both these of these “crosswind calamities” would never have been allowed to develop to that end in the first place.
Cirrus Driver.--HEAR, HEAR. I have decided to ignore all further negative replies to my comments. Anyone who pays attention while watching this excellent video and still can't understand why the pilot flying demonstrated extremely poor crosswind landing skills does not deserve a response.
The only thing replaced on the plane after the landing was the seats. They couldn't get the stains out.
When I was doing that sort of thing I always stayed upwind of the centre line during the approach and used the 'wing down' method. As far as I know neither of these things are taught. Kicking off the drift in a strong x wind is a fool's errand. The configuration of some aircraft of course doesn't allow too much wing down.
Even low jet engine airplanes can do The Wing Down Method. But they are limited to under 10 degrees of bank more or less in the flare and touchdown.
@@CFITOMAHAWK2 Used to do it in a B737-300/400 no problem.. Don't know how it would work in the really big jets.
They avoid landing fees by trimming the grass after every landing. You should see them plow the runway.
What? This doesn't make any sense?
LOL
I just came here to see the comments of people who weren't there and would have done a better job :)
Right aileron was put in when the wing lifted off the ground, it's not difficult to do better than that.
Damn right
I can tell you that after spending 44 years getting paid to fly airplanes including not only turboprops in this class, but also operating as PIC on 3 types of heavy jets, that there are thousands of pilots who could have done a much better job. This was a piss-poor performance!
Anyone who would have chosen "Divert" would have automatically done a better job.
Where have you been? You haven't posted anything for months. Hope all is well with you.
One wonders whether they “relaxed a smidge” after touching down in the right place.
Well, I’ve seen worse
Maybe? But I never saw any actual crosswind correction applied at any point. I think maybe they “relaxed a smidge” somewhere back in flight school.
They didn't relax, that was the problem. The airplane went into the direction of their crab (left). They needed to take the correction out as the airplane decelerates. Oh and to the dude that posted the video: the reason why there was no other air traffic going in was because everyone else diverted for crosswinds out of limits. Only this crew thought it was a good idea to land.
Bad idea to continue the landing. Aileron should have been set to keep left wing down but opposite applied leading to the left wheel lifting and veer off to left. Rank bad flying.
I had a similar situation occur to me while attempting to land at Rialto Airport in a Bonanza, w/ easily 50-60 knot crosswinds. I knew I had to keep my speed up a bit and got myself set up for the landing when a big gust came across from the port side just as I was touching down. It blew me quite a ways off the runway and my left wingtip scraped the ground, but I got her down. When I finally got the plane to the leeward side of the hangars, I had to ask for assistance w/ tying the plane down. Once that was acomplished, I did a visual inspection of the left wingtip and noticed the flashing marker light was gone, w/ just a minor scratch or two to confirm the hit. Never been more content to be grounded in my life.
......and your license suspended for gross idiocy?
50-60 knots crosswinds?? Maybe 30-35 and the rest as headwinds. Impossible to land a Bonanza with total of 60 knots crosswind component and keep it on the runway. Specially with only one person onboard. The lighter the airplane, the more difficult to handle crosswinds..
@@feetgoaroundfullflapsC Say what you will, I lived it and am glad to be alive. Check weather reports for Jan. 1, '71 (or '72?) and you'll see they recorded hurricane force winds over the Sierra Nevadas during that New Year. And you can bet I kissed the ground when I was able.
@@manlatycon You can kiss my ass. Even the Tower Operator said he'd never seen such "finesse" in that kind of winds. I was just glad to be on the ground after 50ft rises and falls coming over the Sierra Nevadas, where hurricane force winds were recorded - Jan.1,1971/2.
@@v.e.7236 Try kissing the State Prosecutor's ass when, at the subsequent court hearing, you are proven beyond all reasonable doubt that you exceeded the aircraft's FOM limits. and then wait for the insurance company (if you've got one) to sue you for every penny you've got. You might have been best mates and a better pilot than Chuck Yeager but flying in conditions you describe is idiotic and potentially suicidal. And when you can come back with 9500 hours, if you live that long, you can wipe mine.
Now the pilot can log one soft field landing in his log book.😂😂
Holy moly. That was impressive. Seeing that ATP's main left gear going up... and I thoroughly didn't expect the plane to literally vacate the runway... awesome catch mate!
And if you look to your right ladies and gentlemen you will see the where we currently should be...
Could an actual CPL rated pilot explain what would be the aftermath of such event for the pilot(s) - paperwork involved, possible investigation and what kind of consequences could the pilot(s) expect for such incompetence?
That was a student pilot at the wheel. Never let him solo.
This is one of those situations where it's hard to really applaud the pilots for the safe outcome, when it was their poor decision making that put the plane in danger in the first place.
Funny name but this is called wind cock effect.
From the first and second video notice the similar movement of the aircraft into the wind just after the landing roll. It's called wind cocking. Happens mostly during landing roll and the plane slowed down. As the plane slows down, rudder effectiveness is reduced. That's the time when plane becomes a wind vane. During crosswind conditions (ex. Left x-wind) the rudders will tend to deflect on the right. The proper way is to keep or reduce that rudder deflection but not turn the rudder unto the wind because that's where the problem starts. Apply rudder pressure on the right side only. If the plane drifts right, relieve rudder pressure on the right pedal. Never use the left pedal unless necessary. Relieving rudder pressure will make the wind cock kick in. Use differential brakes as well. Also ask your co-pilot to push the yokes and maintain wings level during the landing roll because nosewheel steering will be more effective and can help big time.
This procudere has been recommended by ATR. This was discussed during the ATR Safety Conference video, as some ATR72 have also experienced the same scenario as with this BAe ATP.
That runway should have been built about 2 inches wider, that's all.
I'm sitting on my sofa looking at planes on UA-cam, so obviously my credentials are beyond repute when it comes to stating what the pilots should have done.
LisztyLiszt--if you were an experienced pilot, you could comment about the pilot's miserable performance as so many of us have done. 😀
@@tenpiloto No doubt. But like I said, it's also perfectly legitimate for me, the sofa expert who has watched a few Mentor and Captain Joe videos, and has attempted to land an A380 on an aircraft carrier in GEOFs (on more than one occasion and with crosswinds turned off), to give my two cents on what is clearly some of the worst piloting ever observed from an armchair. The real pilots here, who have years of training and experience, know all the facts before they've commented. That much is assured, so it's wise to listen to them.
My observations IMHO:
1. The plan'es maximum crosswind component capabilities were greatly exceeded.
2. Replant a few new runway edge lights, and some veggies in the dirt rows created.
3. Needed more cowbell and right rudder.
4. Bob Hoover couldn't have pulled this off.
5. Change of underwear and hit the bar to celebrate you live to fly another day.
@The Aviator X it's an old famous Saturday Night Live skits with Will Farrell. Check it out on YT.
Needs more cowbell!!! 😂
The Aviator X search for “more cowbell” on UA-cam.
Lmao 👌
Dixie Normous
I gotta crosswind... and the only cure... is more cowbell.
Its a good landing if you can walk away from it lol
And a great landing if you can reuse the aircraft again
There should be an inquiry into why Birmingham has never prioritised building a runway into the prevailing wind instead of wasting money on other projects, it's only a matter of time before something more serious happens here. Videos/incidents like this will put off passengers and airlines. Build a new HS2 Airport and close the current site
Birmingham used to have an into wind cross runway. It was closed about 15 years ago. One end is now taxiway T (I think, and the other end has a hangar on it).
It did have a runway into the prevailing wind but, it was too short and there wasn't, and still isn't, the free area to extend it. It is therefore now officially a taxiway. 33/15 was extended in recent years at a cost of millions which included the rerouting of the A45 a very busy main road which feeds the M42 aswell as the airport, Birmingham Business Park and the NEC. You would've needed to demolish most of the NEC, completely divert the main London to Birmingham railway line, pull down half of Marston Green and Birmingham Business Park. I've been going to Birmingham airport for over 30 years man and boy and never once witnessed a single incident.
A bit utopic. And don't blame the runway for what seems to be piss poor driving....
The old runway could support smaller jet operations (CRJ A319) and even a 757 on at least one occasion. An ATP would have had no issues either. It was ostensibly closed to keep the NIMBYs happy. I have an old obstacle light in my garden from the old days of operation.
After that landing, I think they need to check the landing gears.. And I would need to check my pants.
Obviously, it was a PIC mistake. Left aileron was down, but should be up. This is why left wing lifted up.
The AAIB report into this occurrence has been published. The approach was apparently poorly briefed. First approach flown by the FO. Go-around initiated by the captain. Second approach 'flown' by the captain who basically couldn't handle the crosswind and became overloaded. He eventually used the control wheel iso the rudder after touchdown 'like in a car' which is why they departed the runway.
Anyone heard from Flugsnug lately. Is he Okay!
That flight crew owes the airfield landscaping guys a steak dinner for keeping such as smooth safety area. One good pothole or rut out there would have taken out that undercarriage.
Unlikely... All that weight and speed the plane would just plow over a pot hole or tear up the ground even more but wouldn't have much effect on the plane...
@@Roc790 I've got a buddy that maintains runway safety areas. Next time it pours rain, I'll tell him he can leave all the huge wash-outs it makes. Roc790 said it was cool. Hahaha....
--
In all seriousness though, airfield guys put a lot of work into keeping those safety areas very smooth. Soil is constantly hauled in to compensate for erosion, settling of runway light foundations and the runways themselves, fill for ruts from vehicles and aircraft, animal activity, etc. It's one of those jobs that you would never know is being done. A well-maintained safety area makes the difference between a situation that ends well like this one and a situation that ends in a collapsed nose gear and injuries/fatalities.
@@MechMan0124 I never said anything about that it was not necessary to maintain the grounds... All I implied is some pot holes is not going to break off the undercarriage, it would ride right over them with minimal effect on a large aircraft as the one in this video.
@@Roc790 That depends entirely on the dimensions and geometry of the defect... Ahh, I'm "feeding the trolls" now aren't I? You're right Roc, have a cookie.
@@MechMan0124 Oh so now pothole turns into an unknown sized defect.... now you're talking a whole different scenario that doesn't happen unless maybe some years old abandoned airfield.
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing.
Any stupid thing you say is a good stupid thing for you..
@@outwiththem ooh the irony!!
stupid comment
@@Klara906090 geez go get a life!
@@ruatachhangte -He is alive. You are dead by liking IDIOT PHRASES..
Now arriving at gate 12, gate 13, gate 14.........
And I think it was that of my flight instructor sayin'
...
you can always go around ♫
Era el segundo intento ya...
@@henryrollins9177 Alternativa entonces.
@@CMDR_Belisario Ciertamente debieran haber hecho eso... Saludos!
There are several very well qualified commenters on this thread who are disgusted not only by this crew's obvious lack of required skills, but also by posters who don't understand how dangerous this was but tell us we don't know what we are talking about. That runway excursion was extremely serious, and at many airports could have involved major aircraft damage, injuries, or even fatalities. The posters who are praising this crew (who demonstrated woeful incompetence in the go around and botched landing) are entitled to comment anything, but when their posts indicate that they have little or no subject knowledge, they should expect informed critique from others who are also entitled to comment. Cheers.
Have you read the incident report on this? do you know if the aircraft had any technical defects? Have you got access to the flight data recorder? u say obvious lack of required skills but you were not on the flightdeck at the time so do not make comments on the crew until the report comes out about weather conditions crossword limitations tech defects etc etc etc, all u see here is some iphone video
The posters who are crucifying this crew are entitled to comment anything, but when their posts indicate that they have little or no subject knowledge, they should expect informed critique from others who are also entitled to comment. Cheers right back at ya.
herobo123456
It’s not an iPhone video, check your head.
Also check your eyes, because it doesn’t take a genius to literally watch the video and clearly see incorrect aileron input. I recognize there are so many factors, and I’m not saying I can do better (I cannot) and not saying the pilots are incompetent, but it is very clear that they made at least one major mistake, which is simply indisputable.
@@ZicajosProductions I agree they fucked it up but lets wait for the report to be sure thats all
Wow, great catch flugsnug. Thank you for not repeatedly yelling "oh my god" while watching.
And pulls back onto the runway like "Nobody saw that. Nope."
Imagine looking out of the window from your passenger seat and realizing that you are actually ahead of the pilots on the flight deck.
I was able to look down the runway coming in to land at Minot AFB once. I was in a left side window seat in a Navy C-9, headed back to WA from Norfolk, and we landed at Minot for gas. There was a _bit_ of a cross wind. :)
@@muskaos I arrived at NAS Pensacola, back in the 80s, to check aboard my new assignment, (USS Lexington) and when I arrived at the peer she was gone, she was out to sea. So I was directed to go to the BEQ in order to check in there and while on my way I got to thinking 'hell yeah'😊 ! I'll be on temp duty until she returns from sea. Hopefully I'll be dispensing basketballs at the gym for the next 6 weeks ! At BEQ a chief came out of nowhere, looked at my orders and said 'gather all your things, you're going to the airfield and you'll be on the Lex, , , tonight' 😒
I ended up as a passenger on a Grumman C-2 Greyhound bound for the Lexington that was somewhere in Lake Texas, otherwise known as the Gulf Of Mexico. The pilot gave us a single warning to prepare for landing and after an eternity of waiting we went from 150mph to 0mph in a split second.
It was a hell of a ride though and I never forgot that little Grumman Greyhound.
I don't even know why pilots bother having flying lessons, they should just take the keyboard pilots' advice.
Joe Richardson-- Miserable demonstrated crosswind landing skills shown in this vid. Anyone praising this pilot is woefully uninformed.
Clueless Joe. We take lessons so we can learn how NOT to run off the runway during high crosswinds. Once we know-how, we can get good flying jobs. Unfortunately, not everyone passes the tests.
Didn't know that they made that model in a 6 wheel drive
Excellent camera work
EXCELLENT camera / lens and camera work - great!
JR
This is literally a HOW NOT to land in a x-wind, tutorial.
Seriously, if the wind was that bad, surely this was beyond crosswind limits. Don't want to be an armchair pilot, but...
But you are right. He should have realised earlier he wasn't stable, and gone around. Not sure it was actually a wind issue, looks like the issue could be 75 centimeters behind the stick.....
The wind rotor off the buildings is terrible. It’s really not a nice place to land, stable approach or not.
Midland Skies--either way--if out of limits, bad judgement. If not out of limits, terrible demonstrated crosswind landing skills. Both scenarios show lack of ability.
I really don’t understand where all the criticism is coming from. It’s almost like everyone forgets that a man is flying, not a machine that can do every single thing every single time in every type of situation perfectly, and that every single situation is different and affected by hundreds of variables, and yet, everyone can point out only one thing and confidently blame the pilot, accusing him of being untrained. WTF
The criticism is probably from people who work in the industry. Unlike other industries, flying is very unforgiving of mistakes. Pilots are expected to recognise when a situation is potentially dangerous and NOT to press on. In this instance, the pilot continued with a landing that was unlikely to be a success, given the unstable approach, the amount and degree of control inputs and the very strong crosswind. The pilots will have been trained to follow the correct procedures, abide by the limits of the aircraft and to recognise when the situation is "running away" from them. Without this very high standard and expectation, flying would be a lot more deadly! I sympathise with this pilot, and you are quite correct that to err is human, but I will stake money on the fact that the pilot will be deemed responsible (and not because management will want a scapegoat) for a very serious incident that could have cost a lot of lives..
Felix Deer
Idk to me the approach for this heavy of a crosswind and this light of an aircraft seemed pretty stable, but I still don’t know why he lacked crabbing before touchdown. I’d rather wait for an investigation.
And yea, the control inputs are kind of everywhere. I’ve learned to find the sweet spot and stick with it, which is why my money is on low level wind shear as a possible culprit. However, like I’m sure you agree, my biggest beef here is the incorrect aileron input when the plane started to veer to the left and presumably got hit by that wind shear. He went right aileron, away from the wind. A big no no.
It’s hard to say, and I’m definitely not gonna shit on the pilot from my stance because honestly there isn’t the whole story from a two minute video. I’d be interested in the final report on this one.
amazing catch!
Wow, now that was a crazy landing to capture. Great footage, that was a scary one to see.
that looks like me flying in simulator. 2 wheels gliding style and ripping grass all way home
'Quote' marks or not, it is patently ridiculous to say you're blown off the runway when you veer off the UPWIND SIDE.
The quote marks might be implying the ridiculousness you're talking about. As in, the pilot said he was blown off the runway, but a blind man with shite in his eyes can see they didn't reduce their correction for crosswind when they landed.
I know it's counterintuitive, but on the ground, planes veer into the wind because of the wind pushing against the vertical stabilizer.
@@mariuspanaitescu7352 Of course.
@@daveriley6310 Ok so... make up your mind. Is it ridiculous or not?
@@mariuspanaitescu7352 The airplane was not blown off the runway. The airplane was flown off the runway by the pilot. The conditions were well within the capability of the aircraft. Improper positioning of flight controls resulting in failure to maintain directional control with rudder, nosewheel steering and brakes.
When you've landed a transport aircraft on an ice-covered runway at Erie with weather at minimum and a crosswind, you understand the importance of tracking straight down the centerline before touchdown and maintaining crosswind controls after touchdown. Any drift just prior to touchdown on ice is very likely to end in a runway excursion. On the downwind side.
Absolutely amazing how many conclusions are reached.
Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. Those that can't teach, post UA-cam critique. It's like every person who's played FS thinks they can fly a real plane. :)
I'll add mine . I think it might have been windy
“When in doubt go around”
Replay it and take a look at the right hand aileron from 1:28. The wind was from the left during the entire landing but there appears to be a dramatic wind shear at the end of the runway.
People keep blaming a low time copilot for this landing. If that's true, then the captain ain't no captain for letting this get so out of control without taking over.
I'd bet money it was the Captain, flying. I'd also bet that they are new to the aircraft and have a chequered history.
It actually was the captain flying.
The F/O did the equally bad first attempt though.
If you can walk away from a landing, it's a good landing. If you use the airplane the next day, it's an outstanding landing. --Chuck Yeager
And you took a joke so serious. ShitBrain.
@@outwiththem WTF?
@@outwiththem ... we get it. You've hired yourself as the designated comment responder. Do us all a favor and take the rest of the week off.
@@dhyde9207 -Im retired and bored. So I like to answer to shitheads flooding the pilot discussions with stupid crap..
Looks like a textbook "runway excursion" to me.
First Officer: "Captain, I think we need a bigger rudder." (Cue dramatic music from Jaws)
More like actually use the one you have.
@@lbowsk Probably did not have enough rudder. That is one of the determining factors in establishing crosswind limitations.
He wasnt blown off the runway. He over corrected for the crosswind factor, then didnt apply left aileron to keep the wing down as we weather vaned into the wind when he didnt relax left rudder.
This was pilot error, not caused by weather.
100%. No aileron...after he went off into the grass, you could see right aileron applied not left. Pure idiot in the cockpit. This is basic 101 stuff
@Pete is never wrong , this is your third post so far, me thinks you are hiding something.
Outstanding video. Beautiful touch with the perspective and zoom. I wonder how long the pilot’s duty day was. Glad the are ok.
Thank you for your kind comment!
Did he really think he was going to land center runway? He really needed to be at least a hundred feet to the right.
Yes, I know... I could never do this myself.
Never say never, I am sure you could learn!
@@thefreedomguyuk I think I would have shorted out the controls after peeing my pants.
Your videos are not just awesome but a great resource to us Aeronautical Engineers!!! Keep the good work!!!!
I see a lot YT-Pilots in here,... again!
I will wait for blancolirio to pick this Topic up =)
I’d honestly love to hear his input. He’s the greatest.
The PF ought to get themself a copy of 'Stick and Rudder' pronto!
Full time pilot, part time farmer, master of both.
This aircraft has two separate AAIB investigations ongoing. This one and one on the 18/08/2020 described as "control difficulties in flight".
Lucky the weather had been dry for weeks the ground was probably as hard as the runway.
Its a matter of keeping upwind wheel only on ground and aileron into wind and compensate with rudder as long as possible
At least he kept the shiny side up.
Brave or foolish - you decide! I'm glad he made it.
And that, kids, is why there's always a strip of gras on each side of the runway... :)
Yeah, they should also put a childrens playground on it.. That way only good pilots will be hired. not this POS..
@@feetgoaroundfullflapsC Yeah, these days there's a lot of pilots that can see into the future and predict every rogue wind gust.
@@EdmontonRails That was not a gust. Constant winds. He screw up the first attempt too with wrong controls. Are you blind or just a shithead..
Just checking in. Have seen a vid in a while, hope all is well.
Port wing down, right rudder would have been a good idea.
Exactly! Totally wrong crosswind technique.
Recurrent training in crossing landings required for both pilots
I’m just here for the armchair comments
I never even saw this until I saw the Flightglobal article with the investigation into this today. What an awesome catch flugnsug. Thanks for sharing (thankfully the ATP is a hardy bird)
Well, that certainly was "sporty". What ever happened to putting a wing down?
JohnL . . . since there are over 800 comments here and few of us will read them all, I will copy and paste something I wrote in response to someone else's comment. I believe it will directly address yours, as well. Forgive me if your question was rhetorical and you already knew the answer.
Too many instructors, flight schools and airlines are also teaching crab landings instead of a wing-low slip. For the airlines, part of the reason is that the increasing wingspans of newer airliners don't have commensurately tall landing gear to allow a controlled wing-low touchdown at 29 knots direct cross without the upwind wingtip or outboard engine nacelle contacting the ground. So they teach a crabbed approach with a rudder kick just prior to touchdown to roughly align the aircraft with the centerline. If you use that technique but don't immediately put full down aileron into the wind, the upwind wing will start flying, as can be seen at 1:30 in the video. Left main is well up in the air. The wing is flying because the pilot is not, if you know what I mean.
@@daveriley6310 29kts?...Hell I just landed a 172 2 days ago with 28kts. Obviously no low wing issues...lol
@@muhammadsteinberg Demonstrated max crosswind limit for the 172 is 15 knots. I hope your 28k of wind wasn't more than about 32 degrees off the nose (or tail, if you are OK with 25k of tailwind component). Crosswind component is simple to figure, but I have found that the majority of pilots I have flown with don't know how to compute it. More accurately, they don't remember how from ground school and don't bother.
@@daveriley6310 Yep that's what the POH says. Demonstrated is legal talk. People naturally assume that means maximum. Can't recall chapter but further along in POH they mention something in regards to skill level (very roughly paraphrasing).
Btw...runway 170', winds 130' at 11 G18. They later picked up. Don't recall the constant but gust got up to 28. I intentionally look for days like that to do closed traffic work. Of course I've had full deflection cross controlled landings and go arounds but 28 is doable.
Dave Riley And these are wits that are being hired by airlines nowadays?
"Ahhhhhhh West Atlantic this is Birmingham tower...If you want to leave a bill at the counter for airfield mowing we will get that sent to your company right away"
A generous amount of right rudder at touchdown would have made a huge difference!
As well as left-wing down aileron---basic crosswind landing technique! Look at the aileron deflections as he goes off the runway. This was egregious pilot error.
Thank goodness this wasn't actually a calamity!
Flugsnug the legend always catching this stuff. If I'm right you caught the A320 going off the taxiway at BHX as well?
Keep up the good work mate especially when it can be used for accident investigation purposes 👍
West Atlantic airways, they are a freight operator that fly often into East Midlands airport,uk
Any landing that you walk away from is a good landing.
That's what they tell you when you are bad at landings.
...... and a bonus for being able to use the plane again ....
Dondi Turner-- Miserable demonstrated crosswind landing skills shown in this vid. Anyone praising this pilot is woefully uninformed.
tenpiloto I’m not praising him by no means. I would have proceeded to my alternate after the first go around. However the aircraft is on the ground and everyone walked away. I wasn’t in the cockpit and given my minimal flight experience I cannot second guess the PIC. You weren’t in the left seat either. The PIC was just what the name implies. In command. Easy to second guess from watching a video instead of having your hands on the yoke.
Dondi Turner--you said it--you have minimal experience. Maybe if you hd the kind of experience that I (44 years professional with 9 type ratings and 8000+ hours of wide body PIC) and the several other very critical commenters have, you would understand why there are no excuses for this crew's performance. They screwed the pooch.
The question really is Why land there? Did they have an alternative airport? If they had already have a “dramatic go around” then why risk it?
Low fuel?
not all places have an alternative airport even then what if this was there alternative airport then they have no choice to put down because we dont have magic ever lasting fuel tanks yet.
I read elsewhere that the winds were 240 degrees at 15 gusting to 26 knots. That crosswind component is well within the design capabilities of the ATP aircraft, but it seems it was well beyond the capabilities of the crew.
That was not a easy landing. You would need to be fairly advanced to land that with no harm. But yeah it so able with out a problem.
Miner Mends there’s no such thing as an “easy” gusty crosswind landing. But anyone who gets to the captain’s seat of an airliner (even a regional one) ought to be able to keep that airliner on the runway when the crosswind is within the design capabilities of the aircraft.
@@FlightData101 Perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger affect right here.
Can you imagine being in the right hand rear seat looking out the window and seeing the runway ahead of you -awesome
Incorrect landing technique. Aelerons were in opposite direction to what they should have been at touchdown.ie - Full into wind. Alot of the time the right aeleron was up and left down. There was never a chance of a half decent landing. ( hardly a calamity tho)
I would say that the rudder is what is missing... almost doesn't move, it should be compensating the direction... I would say that the pilot should do a few hours on the simulator doing landings with crossed winds...
pilot2 - Totally agree. Once they touched, should have pinned it to the ground.
@@JClemente1980 agreed-they were not current on this.
@MichaelKingsfordGray tosser
The old saying holds true, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing. That one was a great one!!😧
Absolutely wrong. This was an extremely piss-poor example of piloting skills.
JOB OPENINGS!
😂😂
"Hey, Paul. Is that a speed bump in the middle of the runway?"
Captain to hostess, new underpants please. Seriously though, great landing in the end
In the end of what?
The pilot clearly couldn't be arsed with another go-around lol
That’s how I land in X-plane
Why, in the name of everything holy, can't they scrape enough money up to build a cross-wind runway?
They used to have one..
gusbailey68--so pilots like these wouldn't have to worry?
tenpiloto But it was short so you had to land in the right place..
This is why when that built the airport in the 1930 that put a cross runway in,some idiot closed .!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Airport#2000s -- "In January 2008, the shorter runway (06/24) was decommissioned. It had been used less often due to its short length, noise impact, and its inconvenient position crossing the main runway, making it uneconomic to continue operation. The closure also allowed for apron expansion on both sides of the main runway. However, runway 06/24 remains open as a taxiway and a helicopter airstrip.[21] In the same month, plans for the extension of the airport runway and the construction of a new air traffic control tower were submitted to Solihull Metropolitan Borough Council."
Tal vez una situación de combustible escaso no le dio opción al piloto excepto aterrizar. Es una situación que se presenta cuando las reservas de combustible se agotan más allá de los límites para continuar a un aeropuerto alterno. Algunas veces sea por descuido, un mal cálculo o bien cuando hay viento de frente en la ruta, el combustible no da más que para llegar al destino sin opción.
Tal vez what?
Pilot failed to kick the rudder right enough prior to touchdown. Too much wind to use the (easier,safer) upwind wing down technique. Rudder kicking is for this situation, you crab into the wind until right before touchdown then kick the rudder over to bring the aircraft in line with the run way. It's a very fine art and requires skill, experience and a keen sense of timing. To their credit, excellent job in maintaining control during the excursion.
I fly aerobatic tailwheel planes. I would say that it is not "lazy instruction" to teach low wing slipping in a crosswind. It is a time honored technique and alternative to crabbing. In a tailwheel, "kicking it over at the last minute" is an iffy and dangerous proposition if you have no feeling for how much rudder you are going to need at that moment. I understand with some of the commercial aircraft with low wings and lower engines where this may be more dangerous than sideloads (on somone else's airplane), but on a tailwheel you need to plant the wheels parallel with the direction of travel or you are going for a ride you will not like.
You don't do the wing low technique with a transport category aircraft. Wing low is the preferred method for small GA aircraft, but in this case the wingspan is too large for this technique, and a tipstrike which breaks the wing spar is generally a write-off. Better to let the landing gear take the punishment, and hope you have enough rudder authority to straighten out. Or just divert.
In GA, all 'crabbing' on approach eventually transitions to 'wing low' on touchdown, or you land sideways. In transport category aircraft you kick it straight just before touchdown, with opposite aileron to keep wings level. The high mass + momentum of the aircraft will carry you down the runway just enough to straighten out. However a big gust at the wrong time will overwhelm the rudder.
petethecatable I think this was meant as a reply to me but avantime covered everything. I said lazy instruction to only teach one way vs both. Those terrible time-builder CFIs exist sadly.
@@prorobo "Those terrible time-builder CFIs exist sadly" ....This is the problem with the US system of requiring 1500 hours before allowing pilots to fly CAT category aircraft. They either become CFIs to build hours at the students expense with no interest in instructing, or spend 1200 of the 1500 hours burning holes in the sky in a Bonanza learning nothing. Personally I think the European system of allowing 300 hours CPLIR FOs is much better, as it doesn't encourage the "jet jockey" instructor and means that most of the 300 hours need to be spent productively and not just wasted. We don't see many accidents that are a direct result of having a 300-1500 hour FO in the right seat so the system must work! Nor do we tend to see time builder CFIs.
@@Avantime Bullshit. You can do The Wing Low Method on even low engine jets, but only to about 10 degrees of banking only which is a lot anyway. With an 8-9 degree bank on a 34knot Max Crosswind Touchdown, those low jet engines wont touch the runway and you will need only around 10 degrees of crabbing and you will save the tires from been change before the next flight (delays and $$$ for the airline).
But that takes skills only Taildragger Pilots have. Many of todays airline pilots will crash on a max crosswind landing if on a taildragger. Jets are much easier and safer to fly.
Ryanair:
Write that down! Write that down!
Hahahaha xD
Wow... Those winds though
Wow, the rudder did not move as much as I expected for this crosswind. If at all.