The Commoner Who Became A Queen | Elizabeth Woodville | The Real White Queen | Wars of the Roses
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2023
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The Wars of the Roses are famous for being a fight between two noble houses, but it was a commoner, a woman born to a gentry knight, who would be one of the pivotal women of the period - Elizabeth Woodville. This video follows her life from unknown gentlewoman to a queen, from fighter of her children's lives to finally become a dowager queen in peacetime...
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Sources and Related Books:
The Woodvilles: The Wars of the Roses and England's Most Infamous Family by Susan Higginbotham - amzn.to/3OC5tNe
Edward IV & Elizabeth Woodville: A True Romance by Amy Licence - amzn.to/3OdEqq3
She-Wolves: The Women Who Ruled England Before Elizabeth by Helen Castor - amzn.to/3pZHoWY
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Richard III has been badly defamed by the Tudors.
You could have known better.
It is very unlikely that he let kill the two princes either.
DEFAMATION.
There is another very ambitious person highly profitting from letting the princes disappear.
Richard III was a jolly good fellow.
The last battle king.
ua-cam.com/video/-4SsGg0c6eg/v-deo.html
You're one of the most inspirational history teachers here . If i could have learned History from people like you when i was young ... this is so fantastic. I'm sat her binge watching xx Thank you xx
A commoner who's mother was a French princess (or the daughter of a french duke) and a widowed English duchess. She is only considered 'commoner' because her father was a squire when he married a widowed duchess and was given a low obligatory title. She was almost as royal as Edward.
Correct, yes. I say as much in the video.
Even after her marriage to Richard Woodville, Jacquetta always referred to herself as the Duchess of Bedford. She probably thought of herself as royal because during her first marriage she was the second highest ranking woman. As the wife of a mere squire, Jacquetta lived a seriously reduced lifestyle. If Elizabeth Woodville was regarded as almost as royal as Edward , she would have been able to make a more prestigious first marriage. One of the things I never understood was whether Elizabeth of York was aware, during Richard III's reign, of the plan to marry her off to Henry Tudor.
She was nowhere near as influential or powerful as Edward in terms of rank. Him marrying her rather than someone who could bring him more wealth and status scandalized the court.
She was of the nobility but not royal, hence the term commoner.
@@anthonytroisi6682That's the issue, she wasn't Regarded for her proper status. It was swept under the rug, as it went against the agenda of Warwick, etc.
Let’s face it. Elizabeth Woodville accomplished amazing things in spite of the way that the members of the nobility viewed her. With a mother who was a member of the aristocracy herself she learned quickly how to deal with the court of her husband and how to skillfully navigate the politics of the day. And let’s talk about her incredible bravery when her husband was in exile in France and Henry VI was back in charge! I feel that she and Margaret Beaufort were equally matched in terms of knowing what the kingdom needed after years of civil war and were then responsible for healing the wounds by joining their children in marriage. It’s a shame that at the time they couldn’t be honored as such! After all that Elizabeth had been through as the queen during such incredibly tumultuous times she trained her daughter to be an equally strong queen who helped found a new royal dynasty. What an excellent legacy! Her great-granddaughter Elizabeth I inherited her strength of character and purpose. BTW I so enjoy your videos because you don’t just rehash old stories but bring out new facts and ways of looking at the people and the times that you feature.
Honestly, someone asked me who my favourite lady of the Wars of the Roses was, and I just cannot choose between Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort and Margaret of Anjou. All three showed so much political skill and bravery! And you're right in that the apple didn't fall far from the tree - Elizabeth of York somehow ended up with this reputation as a quiet, obedient queen (perhaps partially to Henry VIII's later impressions of his mother), when in actual fact she was as stubborn, fighty and outspoken as her mother had been. 😊
@@HistorysForgottenPeople your channel is amazing. this so good. the music works as well and is not overpowering. Will you be doing a video on Liz of York? thanks
@@HistorysForgottenPeople She was? When? She dutifully married the usurper , while the rest of her York relations (including her sisters) were killed or doomed by her son or husband
Elizabeth is probably my favorite medieval Queen. Her story is incredible for a woman of her time. Her treatment by the aristocracy reminds me of how the media treats women who marry into the royal family now.
I recently read Tim Thornton’s research that backs up Thomas More’s accounts of the deaths of the princes in the tower. It’s very compelling and blows the theories of just being Tudor propaganda out of the water. Having Miles Forest the son of the guard of the two boys, irrefutably being More’s source, goes a long way to back up his claims.
You're absolutely right about Elizabeth's story still resonating today. I was reminded of very recent events with the British royal family while researching her life!
And I'll have to have a look at Thornton's research - I just had a quick google and it looks very interesting. I think the Princes in the Tower is one of those mysteries where Occam's Razor really comes into play. Having said that, I'm still not 100% convinced Richard planned for their murder, as otherwise he missed a good opportunity to sat they died of an illness or similar. But that's just my humble opinion!
Interesting, I appreciate the recommendation!
This was very well done! I don't believe that Elizabeth is the horrible villain a lot of documentaries make her out to be. She was a woman in a tough situation during a time when women were treated like second class citizens.
This is it - unless there's a lot of evidence to the contrary, I always view women from the middle ages as women simply trying to push their way through a male-dominated world, and usually getting torn apart for doing so. All the women involved during the Wars of the Roses took their opportunities where they could, how they could, because it was the only way to survive.
And she was a loving mother who did everything in her power to help her kids & her family.
The only thing open 2 women back then?
Mother
Prostitute
Nunnery
Mistress
Nurse
@@HistorysForgottenPeopleSo well said!
I couldn't imagine being a woman in those times. You say the wrong thing and then be accused of witchcraft.
Wow, that was the nicest depiction of Elizabeth Woodville, I have ever heard to date. Thank you, it was exceptionally done, and I will always love Elizabeth, regardless of the negativity that surrounds her and Edward. ❤😊
Thank you, I always try to be fair to everyone if I can! 😊 I always find it surprising that people have favourites (and therefore those they dislike, too) amongst the women involved in the Wars of the Roses. All of them were just trying to survive and find their place in the conflict, and I think they would have themselves recognised that at the time, too.
I really love Elizabeth Woodville and her mother. Such strikingly intelligent women!
They really were! 😊
@HistorysForgottenPeople I love your content. And I love the way you highlight women and their lives during a time when they were not written about, not expected to speak, and their lives didn't seem to matter to history. YOU bring them forth and tell their stories. You value them, and your channel inspires me to further seek out women who matter, but not to history. HIStory never seems interested in HERstory. So thank you so much! I'm a huge history nerd, especially in English history, and you do great work!
Thank you,
~Tammy
Elizabeth Woodville was a fascinating woman. Definitely intelligent and played the cards she was dealt better than most could have at the time.
And birthed a lot of babies
@@deborahproctor9538 Most women did at that time since few survived infancy. Not sure of your point.
I like how Margaret and Elizabeth were actually working together behind Richard's back. He totally deserved it
It was a really awesome moment where the whole history of England balanced on two women striking a bargain.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople sadly, we're forced to see them as bitter rivals and hateful in-laws by fictionalized historical dramas 😅
Shakespeare is NOT History
@@VersieKilgannonTHIS PART 🙌🏼
@@VersieKilgannonbut what if the 'fiction' is onto something? Richard likely didn't kill the Princes.
Jacquetta of Luxembourg is the reason for all those historical romance novels tropes where the princess 👸🏻 of the castle falls in love ❤ with one of the kings 🏰 knights. 😂😂😂
She is my 16th Great-grandfather, and her son Thomas Grey 1st Marquess of Dorset is my 15th Great Grandfather his father was Sir John Grey my 17th Great Grandfather. I have been doing my family history for a while now and have been surprised at my family's amazing history. What I have learned is how connected all the nobility was to each other and how many royals and nobility I have in my own family. And Elizabeth was an amazing woman for her time.
Elizabeth Woodville was a wonderful lady, a good queen, & a loving mother who did everything in her power to help her children. She was a strong lady as she gave birth to 12 kids. I don't think I could although I came close (I have 7)...
She really does seem to have filled the roles of queen and mother exactly as she was expected to, and it's obvious she cared about her children, you're right. (And I think you must be a pretty strong lady with 7 as well, my little boy drives me nuts sometimes and it's just him! 🤣)
Elizabeth Woodville was also lucky enough to be healthy enough to give birth to 12 children.
Childbirth is definitely not for the fragile like Henry VIII's third Queen Jane Seymour, as she died soon after giving birth to his only son Edward VI.
I do think that she was that beautiful. If your enemies acknowledge it.... It must be true.
Definitely! It's a common theme amongst all medieval queens that they are always described as conventionally beautiful, graceful, etc., but Elizabeth Woodville was described by everyone as being fairly stunning!
This is a great video. I am a descendent of Elizabeth Woodville by her daughter Princess Cecily. I love learning so much about my family history.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! 😊
Im descended from Cecily also. I enjoyed this too! Its a difficult family to untangle!
I was telling a friend about this for a few years as I uncovered new family tree members -and suddenly he turned one day and said, so your descended from this person, and that person and this one and....
Yes! I am!
People dont believe it or it dosent register at first that your a person who hit the genealogy/genetic jack pot!
I've just come across this video, which is excellent. I am actually a descendant of Elizabeth Woodville, she is my 15x Great-Grandmother, through her first son Thomas Grey
Hi, Cousin! I'm descended from Thomas Grey as well.
Through her grandmother Margaret of Baux (Balzo in Italian) Elizabeth Woodville could claim descent from king John of England and queen Isabella of Angouleme - their daughter Eleanor married Simon de Montfort the famous rebellious baron who was killed in the battle of Evesham -his son tried to avenge the death by assassinating his cousin another grandson of king John in a church at Viterbo in Italy. That son was declared an outlaw and fugitive but eventually found employment with king Charles of Anjou and married a countess of Nola who was the great great grandmother of Elizabeth Woodville.King Charles of Anjou was the brother of king Louis IX of France who was given permission by the pope to kick the German Hohenstaufen dynasty out of southern Italy and was successful establishing the Angevins as kings there.
I have found the Woodville's twice in my lines, and also John Grey of Groby as great grandparents in my lines. Really not a brag, as they were just commoners, but ya.. I'm figuring there's a bunch of great grandchildren of these people who would have 8-10 children each generation back then. Most people don't even know the relation.
This is the best take on Elizabeth Woodville I've ever seen so far. A fascinating story of a remarkably intelligent and resilient woman of her times, one of my favourites in history. Thank you so much 🤍
Thank you! I always feel Elizabeth Woodville is either much maligned or her part in politics is downplayed, and yet the evidence points to the opposite.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople exactly. As women were denied many rights back then, especially common women like herself who had a powerful influence over a monarch was not the norm, hence they were often vilified or labelled as "witches" and faced fierce opposition, such thing may seem out of jealousy and envy. She had her flaws and virtues like any other human but she's a fascinating figure. I love learning about strong and intelligent women in history who stood their ground to defend themselves and achieve their goals, and your content is reliable, well presented and delightful. Thank you 🙏
@@helpinyerdasellavon98 I I 8⁹9⁹⁹⁹for
Elizabeth Woodville is one of my favorite queens and I really enjoyed your presentation today. Also, it was so nice to see the face behind the voice! So many YT channels are AI now.
Thank you! I was nervous about showing my face, haha. 😅 Yeah, I find the AI thing strange - I use AI pictures, so I'm not opposed to using AI for videos entirely, but I don't understand how it's 'your' video if you aren't narrating it. But that's just my opinion!
Richard III really was a punk in every sense of the word. I'm glad to see Elizabeth's unfairly maligned reputation being restored, as well as so many other women whose reputations were twisted and distorted to serve a patriarchal agenda. Thank you so much for these fascinating and lengthy videos!
You're welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed it! 😊 All the women involved in the Wars of the Roses really did seem to get a very unfair reputation afterwards (well, women generally in history who behave outside social norms, to be fair!), and it's nice to research them and find the opposite is true.
Richard III has been badly defamed by the Tudors.
It is very unlikely that he let kill the two princes either.
DEFAMATION.
There is another very ambitious person highly profitting from letting the princes disappear.
Richard III was a jolly good fellow.
The last battle king.
ua-cam.com/video/-4SsGg0c6eg/v-deo.html
Hands down, my favorite queen by far ♥
I just can't choose between Elizabeth and Margaret of Anjou - I admire them both!
Elizabeth Woodville is my 16th great grandmother!! 😮
I really appreciate your in-depth presentation. I'm descended from one of Elizabeth Woodville's sisters.
My personal favorite Queen.
Excellent upload.
Thank you.😊
My pleasure, I'm glad you enjoyed it! 😊
I feel like any woman back then that was ambitious, smart, brave, and beautiful was always accused of being a “witch” by insecure weak men.
It was, quite literally, one of two tried and tested methods for trying to get rid of a clever woman who could cause you problems. The other was to question her virtue, something that can still happen today!
I am actually related to her through her sister Kate Woodville and niece Ann.
Hey, cousin! I'm related through Elizabeth's sister, Margaret.
Hi relatives! She is my 16th great grandmother!
Elizabeth Woodville was my 15x Great Grandma from her first marriage to Sir John Grey. It's really cool to see her history in so much detail! ❤ I also found out my 3x great grandfather was a brother to Charles Ingalls.
Finally a mature well observed take on Elisabeth Woodville
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! 😊
@@HistorysForgottenPeople I really did. I haven’t read Elisabeth’s bibliography yet so I wasn’t aware she did quite a bit of work for the public besides just rearing children. Learned something new.
📚🌹⚔️❤️👑🤍⚔️🌹📚
Amazing video!! I greatly appreciate the extensive detail and research that goes into these incredibly fascinating and highly educational videos. ❤ Queen Elizabeth Woodville is one of my favorite historical figures of this particular time period. 👑
Thank you so much, I'm pleased you enjoyed it! 😊
I’m a descendant of Jacquetta and Elizabeth Woodville through Thomas Grey. 😊 It’s kind of exciting to find out you’re related to historic people that you were already interested in!!
It sounds like the vicar of Dibley is giving me history lessons, newly found and Love this channel :)
Haha, I love that, Dawn French is one of my favourites! 🤣 Glad to have you here.
One of the most impressive people in history. ( excellent job with this)
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! ☺
I love this story. Such an amazing 34:06 moment in history Survival in the upper classes was dicey. She did very well considering her misfortunescand betrayals. Thank you very much. I cannot get enough.
You're welcome, I'm pleased you enjoyed it! 😊I think I've got a soft spot for all the women involved in the Wars of the Roses, every one of them was placed in a difficult position, and all of them rose to the occasion and proved what they were made of. Elizabeth must have had very thick skin, I think, to hold her head high in a place where not many wanted her at first.
Great Documentary, Thank You!✨
You're welcome, I'm pleased you enjoyed it! 😊
I love the stories of Elizabeth and her mother Jaquetta knowing witchcraft. The story of the ring and the whistling up storms. A little majik in ones life makes it much more interesting ✨💜 👑
So many mind games in the Dark Ages. What complicated lives they led Mysterious plots at every turn. Rampant murders accusations of witchcraft and illigitamacy.. Never a dull moment.
Definitely never a dull moment! 😂 I always joke I would happily have been the tavern-keepers wife - wealthy enough to be comfortable, but no need to get involved in royal plots.
Elizabeth Woodville is my 17th great-grandmother ❤
Everyone started out as a commoner. 👑
Elizabeth Woodville set the mold for her daughters, granddaughters (specifically Margaret & Mary Tudor), & great granddaughters (specifically Mary I & Elizabeth I)....
Oh, there was absolutely a history of strong women that was passed down to Mary and Elizabeth, that's for sure! I always wonder how much detail the two knew about their female ancestors.
Your voice is so great !
Awww, thank you so much, that's very kind of you to say! 😊
I fell in love several times while watching this video. If all these women were as beautiful as the models that portray them, I can see why men would risk wars to have them.
Had Edward IV arranged for Richard to raise and mentor his heir, Richard would have had a working relationship and probably been happy to stay as protector. Like others who have commented here, the Woodvilles hiding Edwards death was interpreted as a threat by Richard, who had a wife and child to protect too. Sadly it was an age of kill or be killed. The whole tragedy of the princes in the tower would have been prevented had Edward given his sons into Richards care earlier. They would have become more york than woodville.
Agreed, that one action probably would have saved a lot of bloodshed. But at the same time, the Woodvilles probably were right in that Richard likely might have tried to rid them of power. I think Edward V wasn't likely to have pushed his mother aside, which raises the question behind who pushed for Edward to be sneaked to London?
Or been killed anyway …
Richard III has been badly defamed by the Tudors.
It is very unlikely that he let kill the two princes either.
DEFAMATION.
There is another very ambitious person highly profitting from letting the princes disappear.
Richard III was a jolly good fellow.
The last battle king.
ua-cam.com/video/-4SsGg0c6eg/v-deo.html
Why should Edward IV have put his sons in Richard's care? If anybody was to mentor them it would be Edward IV, it really had nothing to do with Richard who was up north anyway.
Thanks!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed the video! 😊
I love this stuff. Elizabeth is or should have been one of the most beautiful queens of England.
And she was very cunning and highly intelligent. She, through her daughter,Elizabeth of York, healed the wounds of the Wars of the Roses with equally cunning Margaret Beaufort with their two children's marriage.
Was she and her mother witches as rumor had it?
Of course not! Both of them were very beautiful and used their charm and beauty for their own realpolitik of the time.
And the times were brutal indeed.
Her supreme tragedy was the cold-blooded killing of her two sons by Edward in the Tower, very possibly by their villainous Uncle Richard !!!
But she still triumphed anyway with arranging the marriage of her daughter Elizabeth of York forged a totally new dynasty,the Tudors.
Later, she retired to an abbey and died and was buried next to Edward IV.
She is my 14th great grandmother through her son from her first marriage .
Just a little bit of tweaking and you could absolutely write an incredible book about this story or a screenplay about this story
Oh it must be Sunday! Woohoo! 👏💜👏
Sneakily, I actually had it up last night! One off though, I promise. 😅
Jacquetta was my 15th and 16th great grandmother with three of her daughters being by direct ancestors with wide age gaps. Also Thomas Grey her grandson through Elizabeth was my 14th GGF
Hi relative! Elizabeth Woodville is my 16th great grandmother!
@@sublimestate931 fascinating woman to be related to. Which line d you come down?
It's not very direct. Henry VII and Elizabeth of York are my 15th GGP, James Stewart and Margaret Tudor (Henry the VIII"s sister) are my 14th GGP, James V Stewart, Robert Stewart, after that it gets pretty diluted. Seems my lineage peaked in the middle ages 😂 wonder if that's why it fascinates me.
I can practically _feel_ the korean webtoons starting a villainess storyline.
The artwork generated for this video is an excellent choices
Thank you so much! I must admit, I kind of love being able to create something as close as I can get to making them 'real'.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople it is great, and can I just say, I’d love to collaborate on a future project if you want to explore that further
Long live the house of york 🤍🤍🤍🤍
Hi, awesome live history video I enjoyed it. How are you doing? I'm doing well. Have a great day see you next video 😊
Thanks, Michelle, you too! 😊
The term counsins war is not contemporary, the writer Phillipa Gregory has suggested it was used but historians like Dan jones and others have said it was never used. It started being called war of the roses after Shakespeare time due to the red and white roses. Historians have speculated no name was attached as it was happening
It seems she was beautiful in many ways and noble of heart. And the marriage would have been a great charm upon the people for uniting the country.
my fav queen tbh, they try to villanize her so hard just cause she was a commoner
I find it ridiculous that Elizabeth is blamed for George Plantagenet death George tried to take the throne not once not twice but 3x. Elizabeth had every right to hate George and Warwick for killing her father and brother.
It's certainly ridiculous that Elizabeth could be blamed for George's death. He seemed to continuously plot against Edward, and in many ways, it's surprising he lived as long as he did!
Exactly to use a more modern saying fool me once same on you fool me twice same on me 3 strikes your out.
Thanks for these long videos! What I like about her as well is that at least two brothers of her (Anthony and Edward) went on crusade in Iberia, if I'm not mistaken. I'm pretty sure Edward served under King Ferdinand I of Aragon and even had his front teeth knocked out (quite an embarassing thing for him, which he took as divine punishment), while Anthony went to Portugal (but I'm not 100% sure about Anthony). I think Anthony went to Santiago of Compostela, as well. Anthony would later be executed by Richard III, who ironically planned to marry a Portuguese princess.
Wow, I didn't know a lot of those little facts, thank you! I love learning new little bits like that.
This is quite the love story: The White Queen! I saw the movie several times and love it: so romantic! :))
Indeed- until Edward started cheating like there was no tomorrow, that is :’)
Like @lfgifu says, Edward cheating did mar it a bit! But it is a real-life bit of romance, as well. 😊
Elizabeth is my 16th great grandmother. I decend from her son Thomas Grey. Strangely enoigh I also decend from King Edward via his daughter Elizabeth Plantagenet Lumley. She is also an ancestor of Kate Middleton.
My favorite English queen!! What a tremendous queen and incredible life
It was a very unique life - not many other women could have successfully raised themselves to that status and maintained it like Elizabeth did.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople exactly!! And edwards love for her was tremendous, I love that he fought The Kingmaker and was with her til his dying day, unfortunately he was so young. I just bought a book about Jane Shore, can’t wait to read more about her
Queen Elizabeth is the daughter of my 18th great great.grandmother, Jacquetta. However, watching this I didn’t realize that King Henry the VIII was in her line. I’m a decent of Anthony through his daughter, Margaret. From Jaquetta I can trace my heritage back to Gitto de Leon, 970. I’m a Pennsylvanian!
Great video as always. 12:26 👀
BTW what is your opinion on Oliver Cromwell.
Thank you! 😊 And yeah, I'm not surprised that marriage raised some eyebrows, it was very obviously for the lands and wealth she would bring him! But equally, Katherine Neville also didn't protest to having a young 20-year-old man about the manor house, so I guess everyone was happy? 🤣
I have such mixed feelings about Oliver Cromwell. In theory, I agree with what his original main goal was, which was to try and return power to the people, rather than have it all in the hands of one (potentially corrupt) man. But thanks to religion and other reasons, it didn't work out as simply as that. Cromwell also, at worst, committed horrific crimes in Ireland, or at best, turned a blind eye to what his men were doing, neither of which are good. Also he cancelled Christmas, I can never forgive him for that LOL.
I think he started out with good intentions, but when he saw he could force his will using an army, he quickly lost the moral high ground and became as corrupt as those he replaced. Having said all that, I do also think what he and his followers did was hugely important for what came after, and the Commonwealth Experiment laid out the framework for our modern government, and allowed for the creation of a constitutional monarchy, so he also contributed to that.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople Nice.
Thou shall not cancel Christmas. ✊
#TeamWoodvilles
Please help me!!! At first, I want to say you have an excellent channel and I will be visiting your sponsor to take advantage! Thank you for having that on offer! I do you need to ask you - what app(s) or websites do you go to to have a I generated images faces etc, I guess whatever description you would type in? And also what app or website does the thing with the facial expressions on older photos? I would very much appreciate your help. SigNed a 41 year olds who used to be on top of the game technologically speaking, but now I have no clue lol.
First of all, thank you so much! 😊 If you mean the AI generated images I use in my videos, I personally use Midjourney, but I've also heard good things about Stable Diffusion (although I've never used it). For making moving facial expressions on older photos, the only website I know of is actually MyHeritage; I didn't even know it was a thing until I tried it!
I wanted to see if Elizabeth Woodville was indeed related going back on her mother's line. My Lord, My 12th-cousin descended ten generations from Louis VI of the Franks down Dreaux to Bar to Luxembourg. Also further back Luxemburg through Namur and back to Luxemburg. My line there Frederick Count of Luxemburg...a long, long time ago.
I descend from Elizabeth's brother; Anthony, Lord Scales & Second Baron Rivers.
I don't see her as a commoner. She was the daughter of a noble woman. How is that common?
What I find interesting is that she was married 3 times! If I heard that correctly?
Same here, to me she would also be nobility! But the use of the word 'commoner' is applied to someone who does not hold a title of peerage and is not the sovereign. In this case, Jacquetta (Elizabeth's mother) married down to someone of the gentry, and in the 14th century, the paternal line took precedence (hence the shock when noblewomen married below their social standing). Jacquetta and Richard Woodville married secretly precisely because they knew they would not be permitted to do so. So because Elizabeth's father was only a knight, she was considered a 'commoner', although in reality they were fairly well off and and had, as you say, noble blood on their mother's side.
Elizabeth was married twice, first to Sir John Grey (interesting, her children from this marriage lead down to the infamous Lady Jane Grey), and secondly to Edward IV.
Has it really been that long since England had a commoner as Queen? We have another in waiting in HRH Catherine Princess of Wales. ❤
I'm not completely sure (someone may come and correct me), but I think you're right in that the current Princess of Wales is the next 'commoner' after Elizabeth Woodville.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople I adore our history. Thank you for the time and effort put into your videos.
Man said one of us is related to her yh… Well I am! Through the Johnston/Billings/Mcleon…. & also this is the icing on the cake the royal Ricketts family my cousin from Wolverhampton told me earlier today.
16x great grandmother
This video is the first I have seen to mention sources suggesting Edward may have met Elizabeth through court and not just the oak tree meeting, which given the connection of both oak and May Day does seem very romanticised. Not having a more official marriage ceremony is odd though. But I feel like Edward would possibly have considered this marriage a way to join the two houses in the hope of ending the Wars in a peaceful way, not just a love match. What he couldn't predict was that despite reducing the threat to his throne from Lancastrian nobles, he ended up facing scheming from his own side in the form of Richard Neville and George of Clarence.
Thanks - I try to include as many sources as I can, even if they don't always match to the others, but I agree with you that the whole 'meeting under an oak tree' is very romanticised. Even more so as the oak tree is a symbol for England, so there's all sorts of symbolic layers probably wrapped up in the first version of that story. Sadly, we can't know whether Edward thought of anything political at all when he married Elizabeth, or if he was just that daft in the moment. We know he had a lot of mistresses, and the tactic of holding out until marriage also worked for Anne Boleyn, so who knows? It was definitely a very silly move considering it prevented him from even looking at candidates from elsewhere in Europe. But again, perhaps with all the xenophobic hatred that was aimed at Margaret of Anjou, Edward also thought having an English wife would win him favour with his subjects.
Question time :))
In the whole Thomas Beckett vs Henry II feud, who do you side with?
Pheeeew....that is a complicated one! Okay, so...I guess if the main point of their fued was who got to decide what happened with priests and clerics in regards to judgement for crimes, then I side with Henry. We saw what happened when the church got to decide what happened with its own 'employees' - they nearly always got let off! So I do think it was right that, if the choice had to be made, it was the king who got to make it. (Although obviously I prefer a jury of peers!)
Having said all this, Henry wasn't very delicate in his handling of the whole affair, and he only appointed Beckett so he could get his own way. But equally, Beckett then switched everything about his lifestyle and personality, so there was a bit of both at fault!
Then, of course, there was the whole murder of Beckett...was it four random knights? It's a good story, but I think there's a lot more than just the king happening to ask the right question in earshot of four guys ready to go out and kill for him. I think it was an assassination, but the story is a good cover-up.
I guess ultimately, I side with Henry II, but I don't agree with how Beckett was treated. And personally I don't think such overarching power should ever belong to just one person! 😊
@@HistorysForgottenPeople I do love complicating people’s lives with my questions😌 jkjk haha (?)
Tbh I think it should be neither the Church nor the King, as the King will, if given the power to do so, appoint his supporters to powerful positions as if he were distributing Earldoms… And of course the Church will always try to defend their own- so I think someone else would have been the answer- but let’s be honest, realistically, there is no way that would’ve happened. But when it comes to appointing Bishops and Clergy members, I think the Church should have the final say, as it is, after all, their thing lol.
I think a reasonable compromise would’ve been that the King got to judge over ecclesiastical trials and the Church got to appoint members of the Clergy.
But I completely see what you mean- overall, although seemingly (and I believe, truly) led by devotion, Beckett became a completely different person, and Henry (especially with all the crap his sons were up to), must have felt everyone was betraying him
She was my 17th great grandmother 😉 Elizabeth of York my 16th great grandmother. Margaret and followed by James v, James 1st Earl moray, Elisabeth, James 3rd Earl moray, James Earl van moray, lady Margaret douglas, she came to america at some point as she passed away in colonial Virginia, followed by her son George Sutherland sr, George jr, Samuel, philemon, Mary Polly who married into powells, followed by hope ann powell, who married into Bernard, followed by Robert Bernard my great great grandfather.
What was up with John of Lancaster's hair???
To answer your question yes on my fathers side. They were cousins . his great grandparents left England after queen elizabeth the first died. And recently we found out my husband is related to the Stuart's of Scotland. So if we had married back then we would have been second cousins.
I’m glad you have a sponsor, will you still get money if I just do a free trial? Rather poor atm
LOL I get paid either way for doing the segment, so please don't feel you have to sign up at all on my behalf! I would definitely suggest doing at least the free trial if you're interested though, they are a really good website (actually nice to be sponsored by something I'm happy to recommend), and you can keep your tree up on there indefinitely even if you're not on a subscription. 😊
@@HistorysForgottenPeople no I have zero interest haha just wanted to try and help if I could
I wonder what she'd think of Anne Boleyn had she met her? Would she think she was a ‘harlot’ for snaring her grandson or she’d relate to her, given she was seen as a ‘commoner’ for her background
It's an interesting question! I think putting personal ambition to one side, women in the past probably had a lot more sympathy for other women attempting to make their way in the world. Having said that, adultery was the worst crime a woman could commit at the time, other than murder, so it's possible Elizabeth would have looked down on her for being 'the other woman', but possibly not for her background.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople And actually, they were quite similar as both of them ended in tragedy. Elizabeth lost her husband and her sons, whilst Anne lost her head
Grey? So is Jane Grey descended from Elizabeth Woodville twice?
Yup, I believe so! Through her father, Henry Grey, who was descended from Elizabeth Woodville's first marriage, and through her mother, Frances Brandon, from Elizabeth's second marriage. I think it meant her parents were cousins twice removed?
@@HistorysForgottenPeople That's interesting, I didn't know that- thanks! Grey is a common enough surname that I didn't think anything of it, whereas seeing loads of people with the surname "Holland" marrying into royalty made me think they must all be related, & they were.
Contrary to what SOME popular historical fiction writers world have you believe…..THE SHADE 😅
Elizabeth Woodville did not need to use witchcraft to seduce Edward IV. Edward IV was womanizing and was infatuated with Elizabeth Woodville.
I have KING WILLIAM OF ORANGE his grand daughter fell in love with a gardener. They eloped and told the King, and he was mad and sent them to Staten land and it is still in the name KING WILLIAM OF ORANGE. Both is burned near Trinity Church.
I'd never heard that story before, but I can't find it mentioned anywhere?
Elizabeth is from my great grandmother’s side ( my grandfathers mother side) which I’m not going to throw my last name out there let’s just say it’s a connection between my grandfather side & man like Sir Edward Venon Yates which is a whole another story.
She wasn't a commoner. She was descended from King John and a part of royalty
She was considered a commoner by the nobility of the time (in the use of the word to mean someone not born of royalty or nobility), as back then, only the paternal line was taken into account - by 'marrying down', Elizabeth's mother made her own noble lineage irrelevant for her children, and they would only be considered gentry.
I must say your graphics is 🤯🤤😋🥰😍🤩 and I'm attracted to the bling and clothing that is in your artwork, and a grandmother had the last name Gray on my dad's side of the family. Good research on this and ithe videos that you uploaded I got to thinking about how those two boys vanished from the tower, could someone could have done KR 3 a favor like the guard's did Thomas Beckett and took it upon themselves to take care of the issue, anything thing's possible when it comes to get rid of troublesome in their eyes to win favor because history hit did an upload about the boys in the tower.
Thank you! The AI art is made in Midjourney, I love 'bring these figures to life' with it. 😊 One of my favoured hunches about the Princes in the Tower is that it could have been Richard III's right-hand man, Buckingham, so someone doing it for him is a possibility!
Jacquetta and Richard Woodville were reportedly the best-looking couple in England. I always wondered if the relationship of Jacquetta and Richard began during the Jacquetta's first marriage. Jacquetta was very close to Margaret of Anjou. When Elizabeth was trying to win her court case, she appealed to Hastings to speak to Edward on her behalf. This is strange because her appeal was made shortly before her marriage to Edward. If Edward was so enamored of Elizabeth, why couldn't she have appealed to the King directly? Also, if she was acquainted enough with Hastings to ask him for a favor, Elizabeth was probably at court long before her wedding. This makes the story of Elizabeth meeting the King under an oak tree highly unlikely.
Have you done Elizabeth of York yet?
Not yet - she's coming up in a few weeks! I haven't forgotten her, I promise. 😊
Hallo! ngl I have somewhat mixed feelings about her- I just don’t like how she and the Woodvilles tried to take the regency away from Richard, which (I believe) contributed to him usurping the the throne (along with the fact that he was prob a bad person lmao)
You're right, it's one of those moments that was a bad thing, and there's no explaining it any other way! I think the Woodvilles panicked as they didn't get on well with Richard, and they perhaps assumed Richard would pour poison in Edward V's ear. We'll never really know if that says more about the Woodvilles, Richard III, or both. 🤔
Hi friend. I love Elizabeth .
Jaquetta is my Gramma
"Royalty " is just "commoners " who snatched Royalty
You're right, but back in the medieval period, genealogical rolls showed them they were literally all descended from saints, so there was a genuine belief that they were 'better'.
It makes me happy that any peasants' revolt shows people were starting to lose that belief.
If Edward had been precontracted to Eleanor Butler, why was Warwick working so hard for a French bride for the king, prior to Edward's announcement of his marriage to Elizabeth Woodville? Surely such a precontract would have negated even a foreign alliance of much importance.
That's a very good point! Although the Eleanor Butler thing is very obviously nonsense anyway, that just makes it more obvious. Plus Edward IV also offered marriage to the widowed Scottish queen, Mary of Guelders, at one point before marrying Elizabeth.
Interesting… i am (distantly) descended from woodville, stafford, and neville. As are a large number of people im sure… but interesting nonetheless
Not gonna lie, apart from a few features, you look quite as I pictured!!
I forgot my face was in this one! 😅 It's nice to know I don't 'sound' too different from how I look, haha.
Every time I see that comment about Elizabeth Woodville being a commoner and of low birth it makes me absolutely furious ! Her mother ,Jaquetta ,was born of such high noble blood, even royal blood , the insults would be laughable if they weren't so insulting!
*sigh*
I've explained this a few times now in several comments. Nobody - NOBODY - in the 15th century cared that her mother was nobility, because SHE MARRIED BELOW HER SOCIAL STATUS. In the medieval world, that means you have effectively signed yourself AND your children out of being nobility. Jacquetta's husband was gentry, so therefore as only the parental line had any bearing on status, when Elizabeth Woodville was born, she was considered gentry, NOT nobility. For European royalty and nobility, they considered those below that (including gentry), to be 'commoners'. There are quite literally thousands of academic books and papers mentioning this.
I wish people would stop using modern ideals as a lens for the past, which was a very different place to now!
I thought her parents were of title witch would of made Elizabeth the same??
Funnily enough, our weird way of categorising people over here meant she wasn't! And only her mother was nobility, her father was merely gentry, which was the problem. 'Commoner' is a term used within British (and other) monarchies to describe someone who was not royalty or high nobility, and at the time Elizabeth was born, the paternal line took precedence. This meant due her father being only gentry, her mother's nobility was effectively cancelled out for her children (hence why the marriage of Jacquetta to Richard Woodville was so shocking). This meant that Elizabeth, for all intents and purposes, was considered 'a commoner'. Basically, if you do not hold a peerage title yourself (which Elizabeth didn't) and you are also not the sovereign, you are a commoner. It does not mean someone who does have any ancestors who were noble.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople oh so in a nut shell if only one parents was of nobile title that’s not enough for the kids,both have to have titles.
I'm here for comments and additional info. What you got is a bunch of fruits claiming relation. WHO CARES
'Elizabeth Woodville,' my paternal and maternal ancestress, has two lines of descent from 'the Anglo-Norman Royal House of Plantagenêt.' She and her husband 'Edward [Plantagenêt] IV, King of England and of France and Lord of Ireland' were royal English cousins. Why do people repeatedly identify her as being a commoner when her blood and genealogy reveal otherwise? She may have lived in humble and un-entitled circumstances for part of her life, but she was not some provincial commoner. She was God-ordained to serve and live as a Queen Consort as every reigning monarch lineally, legitimately begotten from her husband's seed and her womb ruled in England. To be 'of the blood royal' is a calling and an anointing 'by the grace of God.'
This has been answered in a lot of the comments now, both by me and others...Elizabeth Woodville was known as a commoner because in the 15th century, no one gave two hoots who her mother was, only the paternal line mattered for social status and inheritance. As her father was only gentry, Elizabeth did not gain any titles (may have been different had her mother been an only child and therefore 'suo jure', but she wasn't), and was not a member of the immediate royal family. Someone who had no titles and was not a member of the immediate royal family was known as a commoner, even if they were fabulously wealthy and had a noble mother.
I notice that most of the people who seem to be annoyed that Elizabeth Woodville is called a commoner seem to be those claiming descent from her, and that confuses me. Surely you should be proud of your ancestor for raising herself from such a social place in the 15th century, instead of trying to erase it?
@@HistorysForgottenPeople- Oh, I am definitely proud of her, to be sure. And, of course, in her day, she would have been seen as a commoner. Yet, people need to know that she was not a commoner as today's generation are classified. She was an 'anointed Servant of The LORD God' and her circumstances prior to her marriage to 'the King's Grace' prepared her to live our her God-ordained calling. Thou wilt have to forgive me. I am mineself a patrilineal Plantagenêt and a maternal Windsor and am quite frequently instantly insulted by 'commoners' overall. Most of them, especially whilst being here in my Empire's dreadful 'American colonies,' are incredibly un-cultured, un-refined, and uncouth.
How? Being drop dead gorgeous 😂
It does sound as though that was a large part of it, in fairness. 😅
@@HistorysForgottenPeople haha, also in fairness, if I was that beautiful, I would also take advantage 😂
Who is narrating this documentary?
Me! (Miranda Stork) I have a short bio on my channel page. 😊
@@HistorysForgottenPeople Thank you Miranda for your response. Sorry I am a bit late getting back to you. Has anyone ever told you that you sound like Lucy Worsley? So much so I thought it might be her narrating and that's why I asked. I do hope you are not offended and take that as a complement.
She became queen the same way Kate will become queen.
Elizabet's father was the 1st Earl Rivers. Why she wasn't a Lady?
Her father wasn't created an Earl until 1448, so when she was born he had no title; she will have been referred to as 'Lady' after this point, but still had no official title of her own.
MeaN Grandpa Buckingham was an a- hole! Poor Gramma Katherine . They managed to have a child thank goodness!