Thanks - I really enjoyed your talk. I also use the WavesFactory Spectre, but I do not do any commercial voiceover. I thought I could hear a clear difference between Vitamin and all the others, particularly in the higher frequencies. I have a few Waves plugins (26), mostly version 10 (I did update from v. 9) and a version 12 (CLA Epic). I stopped worrying about updating them years ago and recently have been only using a handful, the Dorrough meter, the API 2500, Brauer motion , CLA EPIC, and Scheps Omni Channel. Like you, I was very happy with them in the beginning, but have replaced them over the years with others such as Eventide, FabFilter, Goodhertz, Soundtoys and UAD. Now I have too many. Unless the 'newest thing' will change the way I produce or get me to the sound in my head faster that what I have, I think my plugin buying days are over. I turn 62 next month. Thanks again.
Hey, Stefen, good to know your thoughts, man, thanks! I had mixed feelings about Spectre, but it's surely a good plugin, too. I'm a huge fan of UAD, but I also have doubts about them, that's gonna be another vid probably...
@@FoliaSound Yeah, I haven't purchased any UAD since the Galaxy Tape Echo was released. I have around 65, including pcakages like the Neve 1073 Pultec EQ collections. There are many I still really like and I continue to used them for a) the sound and b) CPU offloading since I invested in a dual and quad card and a quad Apollo interface. I await your UAD video - I just subscribed to your channel.
I've NEVER seen you before (granted that I've only been into audio for about 10 months). But I'm about to watch my 4th video of yours, and you are responding to all of my concerns as a new person in audio by challenging all of the things that I have been wondering about. I was literally weighing a Waves upgrade when I don't use their plugins now, in fear that I may need something in the next platform while it's lower priced than normal... You challenged the Brainworx Limiter that just came out (and I wasn't feeling quite right on, mostly because of both my inexperience and my lack of hearing notable improvements, and you showed introductions of problems... You are giving me PRECISELY the answers I need BEFORE I even ask you. THANK YOU! +1 Subscription +1 Like + 3 ALL ALERTS ACTIVATED!!! Great work.
Hello, Madame / Sir! What you wrote is the best thing I could ever hear as a UA-cam creator, and, well, actually is the best thing so far :) Thank you, you pinpointed all the reasons I do this channel and I couldn't be more happy. Hear from you soon to discuss more!
I really hope that Waves will reconsider its update policy. I agree that there are many plugins that have been coming out that overshadow the same plugins I used to use waves for. Still, waves does have some gems in their collection. They need to really focus on pushing the industry forward and keeping their place as the leading plugin company and not on trying to make more money by punishing those who use their products with fees. Make something new I want to buy instead of charging me for what I already have.
I have refused to purchase new plugins from Waves for the same reason. This is so interesting. Plugins one at a time. Brilliant, informative and entertaining.
I'm on board with you too. To find out a year after buying what I thought was a plugin on sale for $29 I had to pay a yearly fee to keep using it, so I also made the decison not to continue with their subscriptions.
That is not true at all. You don't have to pay ever year. You will have to pay when you upgrade to a new OS that can't use the current version. Fwiw, I still run V9 - V12 on High Sierra and have never paid to upgrade.
I totally agree. I started music two years ago and although ive been tempted a couple of times i find that they are well behind. Interfaces are horrendous. Charging to update is never going to happen for anything i own plugin wise. Love the way you work.
Absolutely true !!!! Waves are a real pain to deal with . I have a genuine 1176 blackface among other hardware API, Neve ssl etc . and whilst universal audio is close waves is nowhere near.
I bought the Waves Mercury bundle 10 years ago for $3150. Today I can buy the Mercury Bundle for $1999 with many more plugins included than I got 10 years ago. I have had to pay for updates for that bundle many times. I would say stop adding new plugins to Mercury bundle and let me buy them if I like them and stop charging for software updates.
I stopped using Waves because I use a lot of plug-ins and I had over 100 Wave ones. When I wanted to upgrade my computer parts, or if my computer parts failed and were changed, they allowed only one change per year, unless I wanted to pay $200-$300 even though they know I upgraded changed my computer parts. I didn't do all that work making adjustments to come up blank. No other company gave me that problem. Most just made me remove from old device to add to new device, no money was needed. I'm not going to let one software company dictate how many times I want to upgrade my Motherboard or data drives. It's not free and then Waves wants $300 and they don't care what was the reason. If you want to wait 365 days to use your plugins again you legally bought, I can't wait. Waved goodbye. Yes my plug-ins worked after I waited 365 days, so what was the point? Other than trying to force you to pay? Some I bought at a discount. I'm not going to be held hostage again, no one else does this.
I’m staying away from Waves and iZotope even though I’ve bought them initially I would never pay for updates that cost same as a brand new plug-in bundle, I just don’t feel like buying that same plug-ins each year so goodbye WAVES and iZotope!
Okie, dokie, I have a feeling that this one might be discussed a bit more here with you! So, my questions are: - what do you think about Waves? - do you somehow agree/disagree with what I said in the vid? - what would be your alternatives for Vitamin that I missed? Let me know, greetz 4u!
I think there is a lot of snake oil in the plugins world. „CLA Everything” even sounds like bullshit by its name. I also believe that most underrated plugins are stock ones.
The more time I’ve been producing and mixing the more I grow suspicious of Waves plugins. The main reason is the marketing. Their plugins have had so many big names endorse them in the past and so many tutorials by big names that you are sucked in to believing that they are the be all and end all. But, the prices are so cheap for supposedly being some of the best and most used in the industry that it makes to wonder why they aren’t selling for the original price that they say they should be. I mean, some of them are shown at an original price of £399!!! What? For one plugin? And as you say, the update plan is a con. The GUI is outdated also. My biggest problem? I have spent A LOT of money up to now on Waves plugins and that makes me partly reluctant to replace them…as much as I’d like to!
Another very interesting and instructive episode. I share your basic philosophy - just give me value and cut out the marketing churn. I suppose that some folks are content with their brand loyalty, but you have the ear and the background to test hardware/software to yield quantifiable and repeatable results. This is a valuable talent.
I totally agree with you , I spend a lot of cash for waves plugins and had also to do a expansive update plan and that was a reason I quit long time ago waves... there are so more cool alternatives... and cool to see one for vitamin ;-) Thanks ! I check that voxengo out ! Cheers TweakerRay
I use NS1 and WLMplus from Waves, quite happy with these plugin. NS1 is the same for about 7 years. I think you are right, they did not update the algorithm (I have no gear to measure it). In conclusion, I do not pay for updates. For voiceover, I sometimes use CLA Vocals, it adds thickness, but also distortion; the files are not “clean“, I think you know what I am talking about. Sure I will check Voxengo, thanks for the review.
Yep, they’ve lost the plot with their ridiculous “update” policy! 😂 I didn’t use waves for long time and got a shock after trying one of the plugins, when it asked for a payment, even though I bought it a few years earlier 😂 Shocking! 😤
I have boycotted Waves as well....as years ago, I had bought Element 2.0 synth & I loved it( exceptional analog sound at a fair price.) Recently( after my old PC perished)...I went to re-download it...but Waves wanted to charge me & it was something like $10 & since I really wanted it...I was willing to pay( but the transaction would not go through.) I called support & I was told their server was down & that when it was up & running again, they would notify me( but they never did)...& the problem remained unresolved. You may not be launching a hate campaign against Waves....but I certainly am.
I have bought all my Wave Plugins below the real price, I remember that the last one I bought was Vitamin for US$30 so I can't complain. I don't worry about updates.
With the WUP it's important to know that the plan is capped at a maximum price of $240 which recently have been lowered to $180. In practice you can avoid WUP payments entirely by choosing much cheaper upgrade paths or make one WUP payment every 5 years or so, if you already own licenses to all bundles. In practice after 5 years I will have paid more for Plugin Alliance subscription that I have paid for owning all Waves plugins over the last 15 years...
Sure, but the way it's sold. It's unclear, shady. If you don't know what's up - you might just blindly buy it and this is what Waves probably hopes for...
They should offer 1 or 2 year for free for loyal/old clients. I'm starting to migrate to other companies more "trusty"even if the offer me a SUBSCRIPTION PLAN, I'll prefere to change if waves don't compensate me for the THOUSANDS of euros I spent during these 15 years with them. Period! I can't imagine me to pay a SUBSCRIPTION PLAN to have ALL of their plugins IF I ALREADY HAVE ALMOST ALL OF THE PLUGINS. Doesn't make any sense.My ride with waves will end here. Thanks for your video.
wow, first time someone truly explains the full problem with waves. i did feel something was wrong with waves. I researched waves for several days intending to purchase the horizon bundle, but i finally decided that something is awfully wrong when I saw a loudness measuring tool in the bundle for some 29$ that they claimed it's full price was 400$. So let me understand ... a loudness meter two times more expensive than the Ozone suite? It was all simple from there. I decided to orient myself towards the Plugin Alliance bundle.
***WAVES RESPONSE*** Every UA-camr: Your next video should be, going through your plugin folder, finding What Waves plugins you still use, then finding Alternatives to share with your viewers. Many UA-camrs did this years ago (search Waves Alternatives), if Every One of you do it now, three things should happen: 1) your viewers that are unwilling or unable to go along with this change will get Useful Alternatives from your channel; 2) you'll be declaring who's side you're on, your viewers or your potential sponsors; 3) just maybe Waves will catch a clue, but even if not Every Other Developer behind them should take note, and we'll end up with two categories of developers to do business with. This is not just Waves new policy, it's called "Rentier Capitalism". Basically it's firms changing business models from: Selling you their products outright, to Collecting Rents for your use of their products. We pay Rent, they become "Digital Land-Lords". Some people are okay being renters rather than owners, but usually people are forced into renting by monopolistic practices and lack of alternatives. Here, we have PLENTY of alternatives to Waves Plugins. So please, All of You, show us what alternatives you can find?
The punch setting in Vitamin is where the gold is, IMO. It makes it very easy to add sparkle to the mids or highs. Like a transient-shaper, but in one control, integrated well with the harmonics generation.
Hey, man! After quite a looong research into thios, I finally landed with tb_enhancer. I gives even more nice meat in the lows, it lets the highs shine. I simply choose default "electronic" preset and I'm there. I believe that tb_enhancer sounds even better than Vitamin, give it a try!
Full respect to your decisions, man :) BTW, Clarity Pro by Waves is absolutely groundbreaking...
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I agree on most of what you say about Waves. And I am too going to gradually stop using the Waves stuff. The Update plan is shit and the plugins used to be awesome but...nowadays a lot of companies do better stuff. And yes, the Waves stuff look like shit. FabFilter though. Great stuff! :)
Because Vitamin does something else than just saturation. It's saturation plus very radical compression, yet mixed a bit into the dry signal (this is what I suspect, at least), some obscure EQ-ing, too. It's one tool of its kind...
thx for your response , so you say we can achieve the same thing with eq , compression and saturation but that is faster or you are not sure if can reach to the same result whiteout it ?
I switched over to UA and Luna and those plug-ins smoke Waves. Waves seem to me to be beginner plug ins . I used them when I started but out grew them . Also switched to a Mac . I left the waves plug ins in my PC . They would look ridiculous popping up with Luna behind then. Fab Filter was brought over from my PC. Their user interface is up to date a lot more than waves. Some of the UA unison Console plug-ins are juicy tho . API is 600$.
Guys you don’t have to always pay for the WUP! Yes it’s a money grab for the people that fall for it. I’m still using a combo of plugins from versions 9-12. And they work fine without any update.
Same here! But I'm not willing to support a company that offers this kind of a "plan" and doesn't even tell you whether you get any updates when buying the plan! You'll know that you need an update when your plugin stops working ;) Aslo: no version comparison per plugin/bundle, no version histories, literally nothing out there at Waves. Huge no from me in general.
I stopped buying Waves plugins because they stopped supporting my operating system. MacOS 10.11 I've switched to Plugin Alliance/Brain Works and purchased hundreds of dollars of top quality plugins and am very satisfied. (Highly Recommended) My thoughts - Thanks for sharing - Cheers, mvh
If you're looking for a decent waves exciter, the aphex exciter is really good. One thing I really like are the waves Schoeps plugins highly recommend them.
I tried Aphex, I'm persolanny still more into SPL Vitalizer. But this is for music only. Multi-band VO/Vocal fatness is coming from Voxengo HarmoniEQ for me now and after a week I can tell you - that was a marvellous shot!
@@FoliaSound Yes I do personally like vitalizer more Plugin Alliance In general is always more promising. Vice go is great to, I'm also a big fan of Acustica line products they're very powerful and give a bold sound for the voices.
I just don't get why you have to have that music playing in the background. Do you think listening to you would be otherwise uninteresting? Do you take a ghettoblaster with you when you meet a friend for a chat and push that play-button before you start talking? Trust your message and let us focus on what you have to say.
Hey, Johannes, thx 4 the feedback! Well, I believe that my message defends itself, I'm only trying to make it more watchable. Any vid form is still different than meeting a friend and has its own language. And that's it!
Trying to replicate what Vitamin does, (seeing other people use it) and one of the issues I'm trying to solve is their stereo widening in Vitamin which I think is in the higher end. Any solution to the wideng? Maybe the free Voxengo stereo touch afterwards?
Polskie napisy będą niebawem, także do zaległych filmów. Studio pracuje pełną parą i chwilowo nie mam tyle czasu na vlogi, ile bym chciał ;) Dzięki za zrozumienie!
The thing is, you don’t have to update the plugins annually. And Waves newer stuff are cutting edge. Also I have updated during large update plan sales. Waves have been in the game for a long time. Those guys are now plugin and marketing geniuses. I stick with their stuff because I get results from them and the cheap prices for cutting edge releases can’t be beat. Check out Waves Clarity and you’ll be right back on the Waves bandwagon.
Mike, I bought XTCR, it's got a nice tone, but it's a typical saturator having soft clipping nature. Again - this is not what I'm looking for, but thanks, I got some really cheap and really nice goodies in my arsenal!
Yep. It was an energy dring, a fictional one that I created in the evening with the whole text ;) I have some experience in writing/PR/marketing, it helps me a lot when working with VOs!
As long as you sell them you should provide maitenance updates (and don’t charge people for them). I am happy to pay for a new version if it comes with new features that interest me. But their ‘versions’ don’t introduce new features, they’re just maitenance updates. And now would be a great time for Waves to consider to stop charging for those and start doing it like other companies, for example companies such as..EVERY OTHER PLUGIN COMPANY I’ve ever seen! There are other companies that also have lots of deals, some even offer lots of free plugins. And lots of them have subscription models alongside their perpetual licence sales for bundles and individual plugins, and non of them charge extra for the maitenance updates so imo there’s no justifying it. I really hope they’ll consider changing things and make it so that both the customers and their company benefit from it. I don’t see why that couldn’t be possible.
Lol.... i thought you meant you were going to stop using a sine wav. Ha ha ive never heard of that plugin. When i get rolling ill be sure to avoid that. Good lookin out! Thx
No sine waves usage would be difficult, because - just mathematically - every sound, literally everything can be dissected into single sine waves... :D
Aaahaha, this is a VO in my native language, Polish :) It's a slavic language and I think Trevor Noah said once that Russian (also a Slavic language) sounds like English backwards. Didn't know that it applies to all Slavic speech. Greetings!
I've tried that, I've been tweaking the plugins for like 3-4 hours, I just took shortest possible fragments to edit :D I make my videos too long anyway ;)
Ok guys, NOW I watched the video and this guy is pretty far off base on some of his criticisms. 1. The “sale price” on waves is a thing of recent years. Maybe he’s not old enough to remember when studio classics bundle was actually 1800 bucks and there WAS no sale, ever. That’s just what you paid. I own Waves Mercury and it was around 7k. So to say no one paid those prices is simply wrong. We did. Again, back in the old days you were basically stuck with very simple stock DAW processors or Waves. It was a new market and waves was at the forefront. The Renaissance bundle has to be going on 20 years old. It probably worked on windows 95 and it STILL works today on the current OS. Yes some of their older plugins are simple and primitive but context is important. They also make latest and greatest. A subscription plan in WUP? This is simply not true. The way WUP works is you don’t have to update until you HAVE to update (VST hasn’t broken in 30 years). If you stay on the same OS and the same platform and have no need to upgrade, simply don’t, ever. Your stuff stays working forever. If and when you do update, you get anything in that bundle that has been added. Ask UA ultimate owners how that goes from UA (I own that too, you have to buy new plugins that weren’t in your bundle at the time). Waves plugins are not scalable? Yes they are. Waves plugins don’t sound as good? Funny he mentioned CLA2A. There’s a UA-cam video of an engineer shooting out about 10 different LA2A plugins vs the hardware. Spoiler alert: none of them added the same amount of harmonic saturation exactly like the hardware did. UA also didn’t sound “the best” to my ears. They were different. No one is going to hear your song and say “if only he/she used the UA LA2A plugin instead of the waves one, this might have been a hit”. Stop buying into the bullshit, folks. Use what makes you happy. There’s nothing wrong with UA, Waves or anything else out there these days. Damn near everything is available to demo. Try. And if you like, buy.
Hello, sir, I'm here, you can easily talk to me, not to "him". I'm 41 years old and yes, I do remember good ol' Waves. The times and market changed, though. Waves - not so much, right? Yes, Waves are scalable from version 12.7, which is the latest one and I had no idea it was issued. Before that - no, they were not scalable, correct? And I had no idea there's option of that kind, I got no notification via Waves Central or my e-mail. As for CLA series, there are many shootouts on YT, most of them are in favour for UAD. I also did my own one and I'm also all for UAD. This is subjective, of course, but it's there, simple as that. You may not agree to what I say, but if you call my sincere thoughts, based on many years of professional experience bullshit - well, how to say that? Leave my channel? :)
When Cubase stopped working with 32bit vst Waves wanted $180 for the plugins that I already owned - that is when I deleted ALL MY Waves vst's - bye bye
This video is misleading. Yes I have replaced my many waves plugins that I use. But there are waves plugins that I def just can't because how good they are. Yea sure uad makes me feel like I'm actually using the hardware due to their versatility and uniqueness (same as izotope very expensive though) but on some applications my waves plugins gets the job done like no other. And vice versa. That being said Vitamin is a outstanding plug-in from waves Sn: however I agree with the subscription plan but then again I never pay for it and still use my plugs peacefully. I get your point here and all but I'm afraid you just don't know how business works. A company ain't gonna give 2 shits about you feelings Lmao they know their consumers very well and get in their pockets very well but carry on..
Hey, man, I 'm perfectly aware how business works and I'm not trying to revolutionize it xD Though I believe that speaking out loud some unpopular things is sometimes needed to keep the balance and common sense. UA-cam creators are guys that should be the first to ask soft/hard vendors tough questions and look for good solutions for the useres. It's not gonna be liked by everybody, sure thing, but I'm fine with that, because this is who I am and this is the way I think and want to have my very own, yet very small impact on things. Thanks for the comment, man!
Hmm yes there business modell is ridiculous and makes me furious too how they are basically saying we are all too stupid too see behind there thing. Its just pure cringe with the sales and feels awkward. The update thing is also absurd! BUT! What stopps you from just not updating them and keep usind the old versions?! They are doing nothing in the updates anyway!? So why updating and paying? I use every waves plugin with the version that I bought it, V10 to v14 or something. And they all work fine. Sooo yes they are absolutely out of their mind with this close to scam business modell, but you COULD just ignore it and use the plugins. Which are damn awesome if you ask me.
No, I didn't mean that! What I mean is that after a year passes you won't get any updates if you don't pay for them. What kind of updates - nobody knows, nobody even guarantees any updates at Waves. You'll know that you need an update when your plugin stops working one day ;)
@@FoliaSound updates vs upgrades is not the same just to be clear...whatever is released within the first year is free for you, if for example you buy the platinum bundle, and they add a new plugin to that bundle, then you can download and add that for free as long as you have the waves update plan. if you want to "upgrade" your bundle to a bigger bundle, then you pay the difference if i am not mistaken. But you only need to "update" your plugins if you updated your DAW and your OS and they no longer support your waves version because the technology is out of date, for example when going from 32 to 64 bit in the OS of Mac. This can take usually 3-5 years maybe before you would "have to" update your waves plan. It's really not that diifferent from other vendors, UAD also is very expensive so even if they don't have an "update plan" you pay a lot for their plugins in the end as well...at the end it is more or less the same.
@@FoliaSound and thank you too I understand that but my heart stopped for a second when I saw you have to update the plugins for money so my head just stopped listening 😂 My biggest fear is that one day I can't afford the plugins or even a daw That's why I use fl studio because of the life time updates and lifelong usage but I have no idea what I would do without fl studio the plugins on the other hand are great but not needed I don't wannt to miss them tho 😅 man it's so though I don't even know if i could use a credit card in the future I'm so thankful for the thomann online shop in Germany.
I dig Waves. I even bought a Waves server because I'm sick of upgrading my computer and operating system, and just needed some more power. The way I see it, the marketing is crap, but the plugins are cheap. And good. And paying a couple hundred bucks every few years for compatibility sake is fine with me. And their tech support is great. So sure, it's a smidge of a rip off, but hey, just upgrading from 8GB to 16GB of RAM on a new Mac is like, what, $400?
I’m sorry but you’re not necessarily told that Softube plug-ins will have updates and not be free either. Or every other plug-in company for that matter. Your whole video is a logical fallacy.
Sir, I never said I expect all the plugin vendors to deliver upodates for free, though some do that. I get iZotope, Spitfire, FabFilter, Plugin Alliance updates (not upgrades!) for free. And when it's different, it's good to be informed about that at the very beginning, that's the first thing. The second one is: what am I actually buying when buying Waves update? Where is the version history for each plugin available at Waves site? Does the update plan guarantee anything or is it just about paying for a new version number? Why doesn't Waves Central inform me about new updates for my plugins, like iZotope, Spitfire and many others do? What's up, Waves, what are you trying to sell me? Why haven't you told that at the very beginning? Why do you generate growing cringe with your "regular" prices that are never there?
And, finally: where is my logical fallacy in all this? I believe Waves is not fair with their customers, their model is really, really specific and somehow shady in my opinion. That's it on my side!
@@FoliaSound I don't see how Waves didn't inform you from the beginning anymore than anyone else. I didn't get some message when I bought a Soundtoys plugin that said they might upgrade later and I'll have to pay. They just upgraded, and I had the old version. I still do. You do NOT have to update your Waves. Waves does inform when they update a plugin. They sent out emails when they changed the design of the first generation plugins. They sent and email when they redesigned the Renaissance plugins,. The just sent an email about the SSL GUI upgrades. They also sent emails when they went to 64 bit, of which I don't recall them charging for. Not only that, there were massive advertising campaigns on all of those upgrades. I haven't upgraded to where I have the new look Renaissance plugins. But they still work fine. Well, I take that back, I just did WUP when they had the big discount. It was the first WUP I've ever done... since, I dunno... 2009 or so when I bought my first Waves plugin. From what I can see, they have told you everything. And, sales are a tactic everyone uses. There is definitely nothing even remotely new about drawing people in with sales.
@@KevinWale The difference is that most companies only let you you pay for updates/upgrades that actually introduce new features. Waves charges for maintenance updates, they call it a new ‘version’ but it’s really just a patch update. No other company that I know of does this. I’m not going to pay for a new patch, if I pay to update/upgrade then I need at least a couple of new features for me to be worth it. Waves should essentially just say: “New in version…. , absolutely nothing”..😂 That’s why I totally agree with this video and although I recently purchased Clarity and think it’s awesome I’m still slowly but surely ‘waving’ Waves goodbye, not paying for their patch updates nor am I interested in buying more of their plugins UNLESS I feel they bring something to the table that sticks out in terms of features and functionallity (such as Clarity). Also still think their Soundshifter has the best algos of all the pitch shifters I’ve seen but other than those I really don’t need Waves anyway, and that’s without considering the WUP. But the WUP is the reason that I haven’t purchased a Waves plugin (except for Clarity) in a long time and since so many people feel the same I wonder how much they’re hurting themselves with this in the long run.
At waves, you’re not the user… you’re the used 🤣 In all seriousness, waves really is trash. They have some gems, but a lot of their plugins were coded a very long time ago. Back when analog emulations sounded like shit. And they’ve never updated the codes because that would require complete redesigns, and they’d never pay for that. So a lot of it is the same old garbage emulations for over a decade ago.
This is a huge advertisement for Vitamin and how hard it is to replace. It's not unheard of for a software company to sell you a product for a fixed price and then you can take or leave the upgrade price. You get what you pay for. It seams silly that you're gonna spend more money replacing a tool that already works for you. I have a few waves plugins and I have zero plans to upgrade them. They are doing their job. I think their standard prices are their discount prices but I don't care, I think I got decent value for them. I only made a couple of mistakes in my selection. The thing I hate most about waves is their DRM system. But iZotope and any other iLok user is just as bad. Yeah Melda Productions are worth learning properly. They have a lot of plugins that would serve you well. It seems silly that you're not willing to put in the time. You should check out MSpectralDynamics. It's currently 50% off. And trust me, their regular price ARE REGULAR. So if you miss a discount window you have to wait a year. I don't have enough money to buy them at full price so I always check what is on discount because they have a rolling sale on all their products. Once a year on Black Friday everything will be 50% off. And sometimes they have rare introductory offers. Their pricing policies are fair. They have a sophisticated upgrade calculator so you've never wasted money if you've bought some of a bundle but then want to upgrade to the entire bundle. Version upgrades are free for life. You should give their system more time. It's very much worth it. They have an excellent ecosystem.
Terence, I put HOURS on tweaking the plugins. What you see is the shortest edit possible from 4-5 hours of continuous audio tests. I do admire Melda all the way and I know how to learn their tools and I'm a happy user of some of them and the count is growing, man. MCharacter just doesn't do what I need. As for regular prices - all I meant at the beginning of the vid concerns Waves reg. prices and nothing else - did I suggest this is about anything else in the intro? Waves works for me, but I'm not willing to invest any money and time in a company that doesn't play fair. You pay the update plan - nobody informs you what actually you're buying, actually you don't even know whether there will be any upgrades! You'll know that when your plugin stops working one day... And believe me, sir, I put many hours, days, weeks into audio research. What you see is the final edit of the whole process that had been recorded in a couple of days.
I'm unaware of any software vendor who just gives their updates away from free. If you don't want the update, don't buy it. The old version still works. Sometimes an OS update comes along that breaks software. This happens with ALL software. The answer is to buy the upgrade. It's not just Waves, it's everyone.
Well, I get free updates from: Steinberg, FabFilter, iZotope, Voxengo, Spitfire and many more. Not upgrades to v2, v3, but just updates for the current version. What about that?
@@FoliaSound You get MINOR upgrades from all those companies. You BUY their upgrades. Even Cubase V x.5 isn't free. They employ software engineers. These people have to be paid. You get minor upgrades from Waves for free too. Your argument is a non sequitur.
Let's split updates and upgrades. Upgrades are always paid, no discussion about that. If you say updates are not free - you're wrong. They are minor usually, but I remember some significant updates of Voxengo plugins or Nuendo DAW. I didn't pay for them. When your WUP is over, you won't get ANYTHING for your Waves plugins, no minor bug fixes, no compatibility fixes, CPU optimizations, nothing. When you do buy WUP, you may get them, but nothing might be updated, too. Searching for version histories for each of Waves plugins to see what's new that you're missing? No way. Waves Central notifications? No way. As we say in Poland, you're buying a cat in a bag, which means: you don't know what you're buying. I'm still all against Waves, sorry! And, well, Nuendo 10.3 WAS free, Nuendo 11.1 arrived for free recently, too... No payments until Nuendo 12 is there. And it's put clear and right for me!
I don't care whether it's Jewish or not, I do care whether it's fair. I believe that there are fair and unfair businesses, not Jewish ones and others :)
Thanks - I really enjoyed your talk. I also use the WavesFactory Spectre, but I do not do any commercial voiceover.
I thought I could hear a clear difference between Vitamin and all the others, particularly in the higher frequencies.
I have a few Waves plugins (26), mostly version 10 (I did update from v. 9) and a version 12 (CLA Epic). I stopped worrying about updating them years ago and recently have been only using a handful, the Dorrough meter, the API 2500, Brauer motion , CLA EPIC, and Scheps Omni Channel. Like you, I was very happy with them in the beginning, but have replaced them over the years with others such as Eventide, FabFilter, Goodhertz, Soundtoys and UAD. Now I have too many. Unless the 'newest thing' will change the way I produce or get me to the sound in my head faster that what I have, I think my plugin buying days are over. I turn 62 next month.
Thanks again.
Hey, Stefen, good to know your thoughts, man, thanks! I had mixed feelings about Spectre, but it's surely a good plugin, too. I'm a huge fan of UAD, but I also have doubts about them, that's gonna be another vid probably...
@@FoliaSound Yeah, I haven't purchased any UAD since the Galaxy Tape Echo was released. I have around 65, including pcakages like the Neve 1073 Pultec EQ collections. There are many I still really like and I continue to used them for a) the sound and b) CPU offloading since I invested in a dual and quad card and a quad Apollo interface.
I await your UAD video - I just subscribed to your channel.
@@zzzyzzzyzzzyxxx , thanks, see you soon :)
I bet you will by Clarity Vx.
I've NEVER seen you before (granted that I've only been into audio for about 10 months). But I'm about to watch my 4th video of yours, and you are responding to all of my concerns as a new person in audio by challenging all of the things that I have been wondering about. I was literally weighing a Waves upgrade when I don't use their plugins now, in fear that I may need something in the next platform while it's lower priced than normal...
You challenged the Brainworx Limiter that just came out (and I wasn't feeling quite right on, mostly because of both my inexperience and my lack of hearing notable improvements, and you showed introductions of problems...
You are giving me PRECISELY the answers I need BEFORE I even ask you. THANK YOU!
+1 Subscription
+1 Like
+ 3 ALL ALERTS ACTIVATED!!!
Great work.
Hello, Madame / Sir! What you wrote is the best thing I could ever hear as a UA-cam creator, and, well, actually is the best thing so far :) Thank you, you pinpointed all the reasons I do this channel and I couldn't be more happy. Hear from you soon to discuss more!
I really hope that Waves will reconsider its update policy. I agree that there are many plugins that have been coming out that overshadow the same plugins I used to use waves for. Still, waves does have some gems in their collection. They need to really focus on pushing the industry forward and keeping their place as the leading plugin company and not on trying to make more money by punishing those who use their products with fees. Make something new I want to buy instead of charging me for what I already have.
Same here. I finally pulled the trigger quitting Waves. Yesterday I CANCELLED my Waves subscription, I'll explain in a video in the near future.
I'm big on UA. I buy 'em, I own 'em. Bought 3 or 4 waves plugins without seeing the update policy. Needless to say they gets no more of my money!!
I have refused to purchase new plugins from Waves for the same reason. This is so interesting. Plugins one at a time. Brilliant, informative and entertaining.
Thank-you-sir!
You probably now own Clarity vx.
I'm on board with you too. To find out a year after buying what I thought was a plugin on sale for $29 I had to pay a yearly fee to keep using it, so I also made the decison not to continue with their subscriptions.
Well, that's not like obligatory, remember, but it's totally unclear and mind/wallet bending ;)
That is not true at all. You don't have to pay ever year. You will have to pay when you upgrade to a new OS that can't use the current version. Fwiw, I still run V9 - V12 on High Sierra and have never paid to upgrade.
I totally agree. I started music two years ago and although ive been tempted a couple of times i find that they are well behind. Interfaces are horrendous. Charging to update is never going to happen for anything i own plugin wise. Love the way you work.
If you don’t own Waves Clarity you are out of your mind.
Absolutely true !!!! Waves are a real pain to deal with . I have a genuine 1176 blackface among other hardware API, Neve ssl etc . and whilst universal audio is close waves is nowhere near.
I bought the Waves Mercury bundle 10 years ago for $3150. Today I can buy the Mercury Bundle for $1999 with many more plugins included than I got 10 years ago. I have had to pay for updates for that bundle many times. I would say stop adding new plugins to Mercury bundle and let me buy them if I like them and stop charging for software updates.
Wow, great video! I didn't realize that voxengo harmonieq could do what vitamin does! Thanks!
I stopped using Waves because I use a lot of plug-ins and I had over 100 Wave ones. When I wanted to upgrade my computer parts, or if my computer parts failed and were changed, they allowed only one change per year, unless I wanted to pay $200-$300 even though they know I upgraded changed my computer parts. I didn't do all that work making adjustments to come up blank. No other company gave me that problem. Most just made me remove from old device to add to new device, no money was needed. I'm not going to let one software company dictate how many times I want to upgrade my Motherboard or data drives. It's not free and then Waves wants $300 and they don't care what was the reason. If you want to wait 365 days to use your plugins again you legally bought, I can't wait. Waved goodbye. Yes my plug-ins worked after I waited 365 days, so what was the point? Other than trying to force you to pay? Some I bought at a discount. I'm not going to be held hostage again, no one else does this.
How about updates that you have to pay full price over again for the bundle you already own…
I’m staying away from Waves and iZotope even though I’ve bought them initially I would never pay for updates that cost same as a brand new plug-in bundle, I just don’t feel like buying that same plug-ins each year so goodbye WAVES and iZotope!
Okie, dokie, I have a feeling that this one might be discussed a bit more here with you! So, my questions are:
- what do you think about Waves?
- do you somehow agree/disagree with what I said in the vid?
- what would be your alternatives for Vitamin that I missed?
Let me know, greetz 4u!
Ya follow r whut. Boo bass fruity plucked n the guitar one.
....ha i like addictive drums, n i guess massive.
Roll up your sleeves. Put work in w massive n addictive drums which people say is now obsolete
I think there is a lot of snake oil in the plugins world. „CLA Everything” even sounds like bullshit by its name. I also believe that most underrated plugins are stock ones.
@@waldemar.golebski , good point, too!
The more time I’ve been producing and mixing the more I grow suspicious of Waves plugins. The main reason is the marketing. Their plugins have had so many big names endorse them in the past and so many tutorials by big names that you are sucked in to believing that they are the be all and end all.
But, the prices are so cheap for supposedly being some of the best and most used in the industry that it makes to wonder why they aren’t selling for the original price that they say they should be. I mean, some of them are shown at an original price of £399!!! What? For one plugin?
And as you say, the update plan is a con. The GUI is outdated also.
My biggest problem? I have spent A LOT of money up to now on Waves plugins and that makes me partly reluctant to replace them…as much as I’d like to!
Another very interesting and instructive episode. I share your basic philosophy - just give me value and cut out the marketing churn. I suppose that some folks are content with their brand loyalty, but you have the ear and the background to test hardware/software to yield quantifiable and repeatable results. This is a valuable talent.
Thanks a lot, new vid on the way!
I totally agree with you , I spend a lot of cash for waves plugins and had also to do a expansive update plan and that was a reason I quit long time ago waves... there are so more cool alternatives... and cool to see one for vitamin ;-) Thanks ! I check that voxengo out ! Cheers TweakerRay
See TB_Enhancer, too!
Couldn't agree with you more. EXPLOITATIVE!!!
After comparing the sonics of Waves SSL emulations to Brainworx versions, I happily left the Waves community.
Never liked or used Waves purely because of their marketing/pricing. Come across as greedy and disrespectful to customers.
I use NS1 and WLMplus from Waves, quite happy with these plugin. NS1 is the same for about 7 years. I think you are right, they did not update the algorithm (I have no gear to measure it). In conclusion, I do not pay for updates. For voiceover, I sometimes use CLA Vocals, it adds thickness, but also distortion; the files are not “clean“, I think you know what I am talking about. Sure I will check Voxengo, thanks for the review.
See also YouLean Loudness Meter 2. This is an AMAZING tool for loudness metering, and it has a fully functional free version, too!
Yep, they’ve lost the plot with their ridiculous “update” policy! 😂
I didn’t use waves for long time and got a shock after trying one of the plugins, when it asked for a payment, even though I bought it a few years earlier 😂
Shocking! 😤
I have boycotted Waves as well....as years ago, I had bought Element 2.0 synth & I loved it( exceptional analog sound at a fair price.) Recently( after my old PC perished)...I went to re-download it...but Waves wanted to charge me & it was something like $10 & since I really wanted it...I was willing to pay( but the transaction would not go through.) I called support & I was told their server was down & that when it was up & running again, they would notify me( but they never did)...& the problem remained unresolved. You may not be launching a hate campaign against Waves....but I certainly am.
I have bought all my Wave Plugins below the real price, I remember that the last one I bought was Vitamin for US$30 so I can't complain. I don't worry about updates.
I like the way you review .
With regard to the BX limter you are spot on .
Now i follow your channel.
Agree with you, im stuck with them for now but is a shady business model
Estuardo, there are so many great tools everywhere. See my vid about my choice of go to plugins: ua-cam.com/video/NfDMUhEw6DU/v-deo.html
With the WUP it's important to know that the plan is capped at a maximum price of $240 which recently have been lowered to $180. In practice you can avoid WUP payments entirely by choosing much cheaper upgrade paths or make one WUP payment every 5 years or so, if you already own licenses to all bundles. In practice after 5 years I will have paid more for Plugin Alliance subscription that I have paid for owning all Waves plugins over the last 15 years...
Sure, but the way it's sold. It's unclear, shady. If you don't know what's up - you might just blindly buy it and this is what Waves probably hopes for...
Thanks. Please continue this series, it will probably become very popular and hopefully inspire others to do similar videos.
It's gonna be two part video. Thanks for your feedback, man!
They should offer 1 or 2 year for free for loyal/old clients. I'm starting to migrate to other companies more "trusty"even if the offer me a SUBSCRIPTION PLAN, I'll prefere to change if waves don't compensate me for the THOUSANDS of euros I spent during these 15 years with them. Period! I can't imagine me to pay a SUBSCRIPTION PLAN to have ALL of their plugins IF I ALREADY HAVE ALMOST ALL OF THE PLUGINS. Doesn't make any sense.My ride with waves will end here. Thanks for your video.
Thanks, Rogierio! Actually, I dropped another vid on Waves alternatives just today :)
@@FoliaSound Thanks, going to check it out! 👍
wow, first time someone truly explains the full problem with waves. i did feel something was wrong with waves. I researched waves for several days intending to purchase the horizon bundle, but i finally decided that something is awfully wrong when I saw a loudness measuring tool in the bundle for some 29$ that they claimed it's full price was 400$. So let me understand ... a loudness meter two times more expensive than the Ozone suite? It was all simple from there. I decided to orient myself towards the Plugin Alliance bundle.
Thanks, man!
I was about to buy 1000 worth.. will do alternatives and followed to see what you find for replacements as well
Can we continue to use the plugins without updating?
Yes, we can.
***WAVES RESPONSE***
Every UA-camr: Your next video should be, going through your plugin folder, finding What Waves plugins you still use, then finding Alternatives to share with your viewers.
Many UA-camrs did this years ago (search Waves Alternatives), if Every One of you do it now, three things should happen:
1) your viewers that are unwilling or unable to go along with this change will get Useful Alternatives from your channel;
2) you'll be declaring who's side you're on, your viewers or your potential sponsors;
3) just maybe Waves will catch a clue, but even if not Every Other Developer behind them should take note, and we'll end up with two categories of developers to do business with.
This is not just Waves new policy, it's called "Rentier Capitalism".
Basically it's firms changing business models from: Selling you their products outright, to Collecting Rents for your use of their products.
We pay Rent, they become "Digital Land-Lords".
Some people are okay being renters rather than owners, but usually people are forced into renting by monopolistic practices and lack of alternatives.
Here, we have PLENTY of alternatives to Waves Plugins.
So please, All of You, show us what alternatives you can find?
Time for an I TOLD YA SO!!!!!! video, don't ya think?
Landed just today ;)
The punch setting in Vitamin is where the gold is, IMO. It makes it very easy to add sparkle to the mids or highs. Like a transient-shaper, but in one control, integrated well with the harmonics generation.
Hey, man! After quite a looong research into thios, I finally landed with tb_enhancer. I gives even more nice meat in the lows, it lets the highs shine. I simply choose default "electronic" preset and I'm there. I believe that tb_enhancer sounds even better than Vitamin, give it a try!
WUP'um gangnam style!
I enjoy my Waves plug-ins as I am fairly new to them.I have used and continue using UAD.I am into songs primarily.
Full respect to your decisions, man :) BTW, Clarity Pro by Waves is absolutely groundbreaking...
I agree on most of what you say about Waves. And I am too going to gradually stop using the Waves stuff. The Update plan is shit and the plugins used to be awesome but...nowadays a lot of companies do better stuff. And yes, the Waves stuff look like shit.
FabFilter though. Great stuff! :)
Hey, Lars, good to agree with one more user! :)
Everyone knows universal audio is way better, waves is just a good start just not as top notch.
why can't we achieve the same result with Saturn 2 ?
Because Vitamin does something else than just saturation. It's saturation plus very radical compression, yet mixed a bit into the dry signal (this is what I suspect, at least), some obscure EQ-ing, too. It's one tool of its kind...
thx for your response , so you say we can achieve the same thing with eq , compression and saturation but that is faster or you are not sure if can reach to the same result whiteout it ?
@@AbbasTahaie , I started using TB_Enhancer a year ago and this is the closest thing to Vitamin I've ever found.
@@FoliaSound 👍
I switched over to UA and Luna and those plug-ins smoke Waves. Waves seem to me to be beginner plug ins . I used them when I started but out grew them . Also switched to a Mac . I left the waves plug ins in my PC . They would look ridiculous popping up with Luna behind then. Fab Filter was brought over from my PC. Their user interface is up to date a lot more than waves. Some of the UA unison Console plug-ins are juicy tho . API is 600$.
I totally, totally agree!
Guys you don’t have to always pay for the WUP! Yes it’s a money grab for the people that fall for it. I’m still using a combo of plugins from versions 9-12. And they work fine without any update.
Same here! But I'm not willing to support a company that offers this kind of a "plan" and doesn't even tell you whether you get any updates when buying the plan! You'll know that you need an update when your plugin stops working ;) Aslo: no version comparison per plugin/bundle, no version histories, literally nothing out there at Waves. Huge no from me in general.
@@FoliaSound I agree! That’s the main reason I’m trying to find alternatives for the bunch I have.
Wavesfactory spectre, black box hg2 would be my big recommendations
This was a complete ear torture. But thanks for the observation on their update policy.
they are an interesting company. the updates are the worst part though.
dear waves, please stop with update plans.
I stopped buying Waves plugins because they stopped supporting my operating system. MacOS 10.11
I've switched to Plugin Alliance/Brain Works and purchased hundreds of dollars of top quality plugins and am very satisfied. (Highly Recommended)
My thoughts - Thanks for sharing - Cheers,
mvh
I haven't tested too much, but Audio Thing's Type A plugin seems to deliver the same results... at least in the high end band.
After reading the policy, my understanding is that the updates are optional and you can just continue using your plugin as-is
If you're looking for a decent waves exciter, the aphex exciter is really good. One thing I really like are the waves Schoeps plugins highly recommend them.
I tried Aphex, I'm persolanny still more into SPL Vitalizer. But this is for music only. Multi-band VO/Vocal fatness is coming from Voxengo HarmoniEQ for me now and after a week I can tell you - that was a marvellous shot!
@@FoliaSound Yes I do personally like vitalizer more Plugin Alliance In general is always more promising. Vice go is great to, I'm also a big fan of Acustica line products they're very powerful and give a bold sound for the voices.
I just don't get why you have to have that music playing in the background. Do you think listening to you would be otherwise uninteresting? Do you take a ghettoblaster with you when you meet a friend for a chat and push that play-button before you start talking? Trust your message and let us focus on what you have to say.
Hey, Johannes, thx 4 the feedback! Well, I believe that my message defends itself, I'm only trying to make it more watchable. Any vid form is still different than meeting a friend and has its own language. And that's it!
I have joined you in quitting. I had enough of paying for upgrades, even if the updates are only a fix or for compatibility
Stick with waves vitamin, waves factory spectre is $99.00 waves vitamin is cheaper and better.
Trying to replicate what Vitamin does, (seeing other people use it) and one of the issues I'm trying to solve is their stereo widening in Vitamin which I think is in the higher end. Any solution to the wideng? Maybe the free Voxengo stereo touch afterwards?
I also said goodbye to Waves.
i also left waves they don't upload their plugins since you also have to pay for them
Tak bardzo nie spodziewałem się Polskiego lektora w tym filmie. Pozdrowienia!
Polskie napisy będą niebawem, także do zaległych filmów. Studio pracuje pełną parą i chwilowo nie mam tyle czasu na vlogi, ile bym chciał ;) Dzięki za zrozumienie!
@@FoliaSound Chodziło mi o ten fragment na którym testowałeś wtyczki. Fragment polskiego lektora.
I tak oglądam i wszystko rozumiem po angielsku.
@@kamilslaby_ , aaa, ok, w porządku, dzięki?
Haha, I love this!
Thx, man!
I thought spectre was best.. but again visual staging
The thing is, you don’t have to update the plugins annually. And Waves newer stuff are cutting edge. Also I have updated during large update plan sales. Waves have been in the game for a long time. Those guys are now plugin and marketing geniuses. I stick with their stuff because I get results from them and the cheap prices for cutting edge releases can’t be beat. Check out Waves Clarity and you’ll be right back on the Waves bandwagon.
Well said, I feel the same way....basically it’s a rip off....cheers
I totally agree with you- I think their plugins are pretty good, but they are ancient at this point.
yeah, good for 2005 but not for now xD
Ancient. I like that word when describing C1 :D
What plug-ins would you replace for waves?
@@chrisharrisdrums , well, so many to choose from! My favs are UAD, PA, FabFilter, Voxengo.
Audio Assault XCTR is a great option to replace Vitamin
Ah, haven't tried that, it's another must-try for me, thanks!
@@FoliaSound it’s very Cheap...
@@mikeherreraaudiotips , yep I can see know. Buying tomorrow and testing it out a.s.a.p., thanks!
Mike, I bought XTCR, it's got a nice tone, but it's a typical saturator having soft clipping nature. Again - this is not what I'm looking for, but thanks, I got some really cheap and really nice goodies in my arsenal!
was that an ad of some energy drink?
Yep. It was an energy dring, a fictional one that I created in the evening with the whole text ;) I have some experience in writing/PR/marketing, it helps me a lot when working with VOs!
In defence of Waves - How long should we expect a company to provide software updates? 1 year 2, 3 ,4 years ....forever!?
Well, some of them offer them like this. Melda. Voxengo. Many others :)
As long as you sell them you should provide maitenance updates (and don’t charge people for them). I am happy to pay for a new version if it comes with new features that interest me. But their ‘versions’ don’t introduce new features, they’re just maitenance updates.
And now would be a great time for Waves to consider to stop charging for those and start doing it like other companies, for example companies such as..EVERY OTHER PLUGIN COMPANY I’ve ever seen!
There are other companies that also have lots of deals, some even offer lots of free plugins. And lots of them have subscription models alongside their perpetual licence sales for bundles and individual plugins, and non of them charge extra for the maitenance updates so imo there’s no justifying it.
I really hope they’ll consider changing things and make it so that both the customers and their company benefit from it.
I don’t see why that couldn’t be possible.
Lol.... i thought you meant you were going to stop using a sine wav. Ha ha ive never heard of that plugin. When i get rolling ill be sure to avoid that. Good lookin out! Thx
No sine waves usage would be difficult, because - just mathematically - every sound, literally everything can be dissected into single sine waves... :D
thanks much for the video
Why are you playing the files backwards, is it for copyright © reasons?
Aaahaha, this is a VO in my native language, Polish :) It's a slavic language and I think Trevor Noah said once that Russian (also a Slavic language) sounds like English backwards. Didn't know that it applies to all Slavic speech. Greetings!
Try using higher quality than standard and De-Emphasis turned on I think that's more what you've been looking for.
I've tried that, I've been tweaking the plugins for like 3-4 hours, I just took shortest possible fragments to edit :D I make my videos too long anyway ;)
Never liked the sound of waves plugins. U get what u pay for…
R.I.P Waves 😢
yep the update plan is a freaking scam.
Absolutely… @waves need to wake the fuck up..
🏴☠️😝
Ok guys, NOW I watched the video and this guy is pretty far off base on some of his criticisms.
1. The “sale price” on waves is a thing of recent years. Maybe he’s not old enough to remember when studio classics bundle was actually 1800 bucks and there WAS no sale, ever. That’s just what you paid. I own Waves Mercury and it was around 7k. So to say no one paid those prices is simply wrong. We did.
Again, back in the old days you were basically stuck with very simple stock DAW processors or Waves. It was a new market and waves was at the forefront. The Renaissance bundle has to be going on 20 years old. It probably worked on windows 95 and it STILL works today on the current OS. Yes some of their older plugins are simple and primitive but context is important. They also make latest and greatest.
A subscription plan in WUP? This is simply not true. The way WUP works is you don’t have to update until you HAVE to update (VST hasn’t broken in 30 years). If you stay on the same OS and the same platform and have no need to upgrade, simply don’t, ever. Your stuff stays working forever. If and when you do update, you get anything in that bundle that has been added. Ask UA ultimate owners how that goes from UA (I own that too, you have to buy new plugins that weren’t in your bundle at the time).
Waves plugins are not scalable? Yes they are.
Waves plugins don’t sound as good? Funny he mentioned CLA2A. There’s a UA-cam video of an engineer shooting out about 10 different LA2A plugins vs the hardware. Spoiler alert: none of them added the same amount of harmonic saturation exactly like the hardware did. UA also didn’t sound “the best” to my ears. They were different. No one is going to hear your song and say “if only he/she used the UA LA2A plugin instead of the waves one, this might have been a hit”.
Stop buying into the bullshit, folks. Use what makes you happy. There’s nothing wrong with UA, Waves or anything else out there these days. Damn near everything is available to demo. Try. And if you like, buy.
Hello, sir, I'm here, you can easily talk to me, not to "him".
I'm 41 years old and yes, I do remember good ol' Waves. The times and market changed, though. Waves - not so much, right?
Yes, Waves are scalable from version 12.7, which is the latest one and I had no idea it was issued. Before that - no, they were not scalable, correct? And I had no idea there's option of that kind, I got no notification via Waves Central or my e-mail.
As for CLA series, there are many shootouts on YT, most of them are in favour for UAD. I also did my own one and I'm also all for UAD. This is subjective, of course, but it's there, simple as that.
You may not agree to what I say, but if you call my sincere thoughts, based on many years of professional experience bullshit - well, how to say that? Leave my channel? :)
Plus, Mr. Smart, did you see the second part of the vid where I clarified a couple of things for people who disagree with me?
@@FoliaSound not hard to unsubscribe. See ya!
P. S. You’re certainly entitled to be wrong lol.
@@joeydego2 , bye, sir! :)
When Cubase stopped working with 32bit vst Waves wanted $180 for the plugins that I already owned - that is when I deleted ALL MY Waves vst's - bye bye
3:55 uva cost so much tho 😭😭
This video is misleading. Yes I have replaced my many waves plugins that I use. But there are waves plugins that I def just can't because how good they are. Yea sure uad makes me feel like I'm actually using the hardware due to their versatility and uniqueness (same as izotope very expensive though) but on some applications my waves plugins gets the job done like no other. And vice versa. That being said Vitamin is a outstanding plug-in from waves
Sn: however I agree with the subscription plan but then again I never pay for it and still use my plugs peacefully. I get your point here and all but I'm afraid you just don't know how business works. A company ain't gonna give 2 shits about you feelings Lmao they know their consumers very well and get in their pockets very well but carry on..
Hey, man, I 'm perfectly aware how business works and I'm not trying to revolutionize it xD Though I believe that speaking out loud some unpopular things is sometimes needed to keep the balance and common sense. UA-cam creators are guys that should be the first to ask soft/hard vendors tough questions and look for good solutions for the useres. It's not gonna be liked by everybody, sure thing, but I'm fine with that, because this is who I am and this is the way I think and want to have my very own, yet very small impact on things. Thanks for the comment, man!
more for me.
yep... i am not gonna pay (again) for the Waves plugins...
Hmm yes there business modell is ridiculous and makes me furious too how they are basically saying we are all too stupid too see behind there thing. Its just pure cringe with the sales and feels awkward.
The update thing is also absurd!
BUT! What stopps you from just not updating them and keep usind the old versions?! They are doing nothing in the updates anyway!? So why updating and paying? I use every waves plugin with the version that I bought it, V10 to v14 or something. And they all work fine.
Sooo yes they are absolutely out of their mind with this close to scam business modell, but you COULD just ignore it and use the plugins. Which are damn awesome if you ask me.
Sounds like you have a Waves De Esser on your dialogue.. lol
Nuendo onboard deesser.
wait when i dont update the plugins i cant use them anymore ?
No, I didn't mean that! What I mean is that after a year passes you won't get any updates if you don't pay for them. What kind of updates - nobody knows, nobody even guarantees any updates at Waves. You'll know that you need an update when your plugin stops working one day ;)
@@FoliaSound updates vs upgrades is not the same just to be clear...whatever is released within the first year is free for you, if for example you buy the platinum bundle, and they add a new plugin to that bundle, then you can download and add that for free as long as you have the waves update plan. if you want to "upgrade" your bundle to a bigger bundle, then you pay the difference if i am not mistaken. But you only need to "update" your plugins if you updated your DAW and your OS and they no longer support your waves version because the technology is out of date, for example when going from 32 to 64 bit in the OS of Mac. This can take usually 3-5 years maybe before you would "have to" update your waves plan. It's really not that diifferent from other vendors, UAD also is very expensive so even if they don't have an "update plan" you pay a lot for their plugins in the end as well...at the end it is more or less the same.
@@AnalogFlava , hey, thx, corrected this. What I meant were UPDATES strictly, nothing to do with the upgrades!
@@AnalogFlava thank you for the awnser 😀
@@FoliaSound and thank you too I understand that but my heart stopped for a second when I saw you have to update the plugins for money so my head just stopped listening 😂
My biggest fear is that one day I can't afford the plugins or even a daw
That's why I use fl studio because of the life time updates and lifelong usage but I have no idea what I would do without fl studio the plugins on the other hand are great but not needed I don't wannt to miss them tho 😅 man it's so though I don't even know if i could use a credit card in the future I'm so thankful for the thomann online shop in Germany.
Stopped buying Waves for the same reasons. I have been phasing out using them for a few years now. Voxengo stuff is great!
April fools? Prima aprilis? ;]
Nope, this is for real, no more Waves!
I dig Waves. I even bought a Waves server because I'm sick of upgrading my computer and operating system, and just needed some more power.
The way I see it, the marketing is crap, but the plugins are cheap. And good. And paying a couple hundred bucks every few years for compatibility sake is fine with me. And their tech support is great. So sure, it's a smidge of a rip off, but hey, just upgrading from 8GB to 16GB of RAM on a new Mac is like, what, $400?
It's a valid point, sure, but I'm a PC anyway :)
@@FoliaSound I'm both.
I guess that's why I'm always fighting with myself.
🤣😵💫
How is Aleksey Vaneev? Make he the updates for free? Thanks ✌️
Yes, updates of the current versions are free. Upgrades are paid.
I’m sorry but you’re not necessarily told that Softube plug-ins will have updates and not be free either. Or every other plug-in company for that matter. Your whole video is a logical fallacy.
Sir, I never said I expect all the plugin vendors to deliver upodates for free, though some do that. I get iZotope, Spitfire, FabFilter, Plugin Alliance updates (not upgrades!) for free. And when it's different, it's good to be informed about that at the very beginning, that's the first thing. The second one is: what am I actually buying when buying Waves update? Where is the version history for each plugin available at Waves site? Does the update plan guarantee anything or is it just about paying for a new version number? Why doesn't Waves Central inform me about new updates for my plugins, like iZotope, Spitfire and many others do?
What's up, Waves, what are you trying to sell me? Why haven't you told that at the very beginning? Why do you generate growing cringe with your "regular" prices that are never there?
And, finally: where is my logical fallacy in all this? I believe Waves is not fair with their customers, their model is really, really specific and somehow shady in my opinion. That's it on my side!
@@FoliaSound I don't see how Waves didn't inform you from the beginning anymore than anyone else. I didn't get some message when I bought a Soundtoys plugin that said they might upgrade later and I'll have to pay. They just upgraded, and I had the old version. I still do. You do NOT have to update your Waves. Waves does inform when they update a plugin. They sent out emails when they changed the design of the first generation plugins. They sent and email when they redesigned the Renaissance plugins,. The just sent an email about the SSL GUI upgrades. They also sent emails when they went to 64 bit, of which I don't recall them charging for. Not only that, there were massive advertising campaigns on all of those upgrades. I haven't upgraded to where I have the new look Renaissance plugins. But they still work fine. Well, I take that back, I just did WUP when they had the big discount. It was the first WUP I've ever done... since, I dunno... 2009 or so when I bought my first Waves plugin.
From what I can see, they have told you everything. And, sales are a tactic everyone uses. There is definitely nothing even remotely new about drawing people in with sales.
@@KevinWale , I get your point, but I still disagree. I'll reply later, cheers!
@@KevinWale The difference is that most companies only let you you pay for updates/upgrades that actually introduce new features. Waves charges for maintenance updates, they call it a new ‘version’ but it’s really just a patch update. No other company that I know of does this.
I’m not going to pay for a new patch, if I pay to update/upgrade then I need at least a couple of new features for me to be worth it.
Waves should essentially just say: “New in version…. , absolutely nothing”..😂
That’s why I totally agree with this video and although I recently purchased Clarity and think it’s awesome I’m still slowly but surely ‘waving’ Waves goodbye, not paying for their patch updates nor am I interested in buying more of their plugins UNLESS I feel they bring something to the table that sticks out in terms of features and functionallity (such as Clarity). Also still think their Soundshifter has the best algos of all the pitch shifters I’ve seen but other than those I really don’t need Waves anyway, and that’s without considering the WUP. But the WUP is the reason that I haven’t purchased a Waves plugin (except for Clarity) in a long time and since so many people feel the same I wonder how much they’re hurting themselves with this in the long run.
Or you could reduce it down to owning just 1 waves (vitamin) plug in. I agree with you otherwise. Waves is un necessary stress in our lives.
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At waves, you’re not the user… you’re the used 🤣
In all seriousness, waves really is trash. They have some gems, but a lot of their plugins were coded a very long time ago. Back when analog emulations sounded like shit. And they’ve never updated the codes because that would require complete redesigns, and they’d never pay for that. So a lot of it is the same old garbage emulations for over a decade ago.
Who cares. Use what you like.
Please try Sugar by Process Audio
I tried it once and didn't like it at all :(
Specter was even better than vitamin.
I have to tell you I never liked it somehow...
@@FoliaSound how is the Voxengo functioning, BTW?
Their HarmoniEQ is great! And I also found TB_enhancer, which does amazing thickening job in the low end, try it!
@@FoliaSound yeah, I'm a massive ToneBoosters fanboy (because of the dev guy's history). I slowly replace (almost) everything with his stuff :D
где чуеш
also где видаешь
I don't understand much but it's cool meeting other slavs in the community
@@3um , haha, hi5, man!
This is a huge advertisement for Vitamin and how hard it is to replace. It's not unheard of for a software company to sell you a product for a fixed price and then you can take or leave the upgrade price. You get what you pay for. It seams silly that you're gonna spend more money replacing a tool that already works for you. I have a few waves plugins and I have zero plans to upgrade them. They are doing their job. I think their standard prices are their discount prices but I don't care, I think I got decent value for them. I only made a couple of mistakes in my selection. The thing I hate most about waves is their DRM system. But iZotope and any other iLok user is just as bad. Yeah Melda Productions are worth learning properly. They have a lot of plugins that would serve you well. It seems silly that you're not willing to put in the time. You should check out MSpectralDynamics. It's currently 50% off. And trust me, their regular price ARE REGULAR. So if you miss a discount window you have to wait a year. I don't have enough money to buy them at full price so I always check what is on discount because they have a rolling sale on all their products. Once a year on Black Friday everything will be 50% off. And sometimes they have rare introductory offers. Their pricing policies are fair. They have a sophisticated upgrade calculator so you've never wasted money if you've bought some of a bundle but then want to upgrade to the entire bundle. Version upgrades are free for life. You should give their system more time. It's very much worth it. They have an excellent ecosystem.
Terence, I put HOURS on tweaking the plugins. What you see is the shortest edit possible from 4-5 hours of continuous audio tests. I do admire Melda all the way and I know how to learn their tools and I'm a happy user of some of them and the count is growing, man. MCharacter just doesn't do what I need.
As for regular prices - all I meant at the beginning of the vid concerns Waves reg. prices and nothing else - did I suggest this is about anything else in the intro?
Waves works for me, but I'm not willing to invest any money and time in a company that doesn't play fair. You pay the update plan - nobody informs you what actually you're buying, actually you don't even know whether there will be any upgrades! You'll know that when your plugin stops working one day...
And believe me, sir, I put many hours, days, weeks into audio research. What you see is the final edit of the whole process that had been recorded in a couple of days.
I'm unaware of any software vendor who just gives their updates away from free. If you don't want the update, don't buy it. The old version still works. Sometimes an OS update comes along that breaks software. This happens with ALL software. The answer is to buy the upgrade. It's not just Waves, it's everyone.
Well, I get free updates from: Steinberg, FabFilter, iZotope, Voxengo, Spitfire and many more. Not upgrades to v2, v3, but just updates for the current version. What about that?
@@FoliaSound You get MINOR upgrades from all those companies. You BUY their upgrades. Even Cubase V x.5 isn't free. They employ software engineers. These people have to be paid. You get minor upgrades from Waves for free too. Your argument is a non sequitur.
Let's split updates and upgrades. Upgrades are always paid, no discussion about that. If you say updates are not free - you're wrong. They are minor usually, but I remember some significant updates of Voxengo plugins or Nuendo DAW. I didn't pay for them.
When your WUP is over, you won't get ANYTHING for your Waves plugins, no minor bug fixes, no compatibility fixes, CPU optimizations, nothing. When you do buy WUP, you may get them, but nothing might be updated, too. Searching for version histories for each of Waves plugins to see what's new that you're missing? No way. Waves Central notifications? No way.
As we say in Poland, you're buying a cat in a bag, which means: you don't know what you're buying.
I'm still all against Waves, sorry!
And, well, Nuendo 10.3 WAS free, Nuendo 11.1 arrived for free recently, too... No payments until Nuendo 12 is there. And it's put clear and right for me!
Minor Waves updates for free?! Where, when, how come? Show them to me!
@@FoliaSound I had one just last week.
cringe
Why is that? :)
Poland, home of jewish people of 1000 years and in 2021 a polish guy surprised with jewish business policy.
I don't care whether it's Jewish or not, I do care whether it's fair. I believe that there are fair and unfair businesses, not Jewish ones and others :)