70 Ton Friction Press Shaft Part 3: Woodruff & Straight Keyways
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- We'll complete the machining on the 70 ton friction press shaft I made for Blacksmith Tools. This video will focus on getting all of the keyways milled. We'll have 6 large woodruff keyways, 4 smaller woodruff keyways and two straight keyways to mill. This was my first time using the new KBC milling machine for a job like this and I have to say that it performed well.
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What’s really impressive is that the RPM didn’t vary by more than +/- .5 or so when loaded down by cutting. That’s one, sweet milling machine. 😌
The rigidity isn't super good though. Imo they should've made it with a 5" or so thick quill so they could fit a proper thick 40 taper shaft in there.
Rpm will only start dropping when the maximum rated power output of the motor is exceeded. Considering this is heavily geared down it’s nowhere near maximum power. With stuff geared down like this the system has plenty of torque to break all kinds of stuff. The only time you’re gonna get close to maxing out the motor power is when running at high speed and taking a heavy cut at the same time.
@@imkindofabigdeal4308 thanks for repeating what I said lol
I expect to see a video soon on your cnc machines. I saw the tech working on getting your lathe leveled and operational :)
It's cool how the rotation of the horizontal cutter and frame rate matchup. Reminds me of videos of cars at highway speed that look like they're not moving
The plainer gauge was an awesome tip to keep around. Last time I had this problem I touched the cutter off on the base of the vise before loading the part then worked from the bottom of the shaft up. Thanks for sharing
I wondered why Adam didn't just set the planer gauge under the shaft to reference the bottom and then come up from there obviating the need to use an indicator.
@@chriscraven9572 Well, sure, but then you don't need to use an indicator. Where's the fun in that lol
If you touched off with the quill on an upper tangent of the shaft and then again off a lower tangent and split the difference, assuming you used the same Y location, would that also work?
Beautiful. You are an artist Adam, truly a master in your trade and it's a pleasure watching your work.
Adam: the cinematography.. watching that key cutter at 60RPM at 60 FPS... art man. that was art. It worked...
❤
Thank you very much for your detailed discussion of how you chose to make these keyways. This kind of information is extremely useful for those of us just getting into machining or getting back into the field. The Planer gauge tip was excellent.
Adam I found you from Mr Pete , please help him with his channel, I consider him a National treasure such a nice older gentleman and you sir are brilliant and what a treat and great experience learning from you as well
This looks like stuff we make for NASA. Beautifully done job Abom!
I am not a machinist, but man I am enjoy watching this a lot. Thank you!
man I wish I had the skills you do my father who has passed a long time ago probably did way back in the day but he passed before he could pass on his knowledge to me I can do metal work but I am nowhere near a machinist but I do understand keep up the good work man and loving your new shop
silly point Adam....as a cameraman. if you had a pro camera with variable shutter speed, it would stop the strobe/ reverse direction of rotating tools. maybe worth investing in?
It’s so cool to watch you work and see how you figure different things out.
I find Joe Pie. cool to watch too.
That’s all worked out by the film crew and stuntmen 🤫🤣😂🤣😂🥲😂
@@Fumingzeus The fix it all 'in post' :D
IMPRESSIVE, good to watch a job finish so good looking.
See your cnc lathe is being setup :D
I’m Sure we gonna see some cnc action soon. Looks like we have some leveling going on and set up
yes i sore that as well
Check him out on his facebook page. CNC going on there!
I saw Mr. 'I'm not here guy" too! LOL!! I was like... Who the hell is that?? LOL!! We get so possessive on the yoobtube!! LOL!
I thought about that too. I thought I saw the previous machine that was on that corner however.
Anyone notice the guy in the background levelling the milltronics lathe 😉
60rpm will make it look stopped but the number of teeth and many other rpm’s will also produce the same effect. It’s called temporal aliasing.
You need to get with Brandon Herrera he needs a machinist that's willing to do custom work
Impressive as always. I noticed a guy at the background working on the milltronics machine, i guess we are getting there soon!
30 fps is actually closer to 29.8 something. That's why there's a little "drift" on that cutter. 😁
1. Aways learn something new from adams videos
2. Man those machines are so new and clean
3. Granddad and dad are so proud of you
I'm curious what you would charge to do a job like that how many hours did it take you.
1000.00
One..... million..... dollars!
With or without the camera work?
A Trade secret…
If you have to ask, you can’t afford it.
Shaper gauge could go, without any indicator, under the shaft and under the cutter. Would need to compensate for backlash whilst cranking down the knee tho. Else: that wobbly black rim/taper on the toolholder would drive me nuts.
I saw that too and thought the same thing! Makes me wonder what ELSE is wrong with it! 😆
That adjustable parallel touch off tool seems like a sweet tool i would really enjoy owning for situations like the one you found yourself in.
i am not a maschinist or anything like that but i find your setups and measuring trick really really interesting .I love your work!
I gotta say, I never had any previous interest in this stuff but I find myself captivated by your videos. How you measure everything exactly and how you get it so accurate is a real art.
Yeah, same here. I'm in IT so I have absolutely nothing to do with machining, but his videos have awakened a certain fascination for the craft in me. Might have to get myself some machines at some point (maybe a CNC, combination of IT and machining)
*- Planer and Shaper Gauge.*
*- Thank you for showing us this tool. Simple, Elegant, Universal tool.*
Nice job AB! Adam you should check out IC weld he loves your channel. Unbelievable weld job last episode. Squared up! Machined with what he had said you'd be proud of him 4 sure on his machining job 2 episodes ago. 2 👍👍Good reach out. Needs how to tips and tricks on best 3 piece insert and holders basic everyday machining. Gettin it done. 😃👍
You could also use an adjustable parallel under the shaft and touch off on that to get the height of the bottom of the shaft to the cutter. Then move up half the shaft diameter minus half the cutter width.
I smell a CNC video coming. Someone is getting the lathe ready ;)
Great video. Really been missing this type of content.
Nice tip on the planer gauge. I’ve seen those pop up now and again in my fb market groups and wasn’t super clear on how they were used. I love the “old” ways.
Excellent job. Planer gauge awesome tip. Skilled Craftsman at work. There is Adam and Curtis at CCE.
It's good to see you and your videos once again, my friend. It has been a while and I'm excited to see this new one.
Really cool optical effect when the rpm and fps allign. Almost like the cutter eating its way in backwards 😀
Gotta watch more period dramas, friend! Same thing happens when you see an Amish-style vehicle on camera. The wheels sometimes look like they’re rotating backwards. (My mom loved watching PBS back in my youth…)
Actually, now that I’m thinking of it, I bet I could make a FlyWheel look really stonkin’ confusing. Trust me, I’m a confuser expert 😎 @AvE??
Agreed, very cool!
This is not strictly only a camera problem. If you have lights in the shop that are flickering in synchronicity with the rotational speed, you may get the impression that a machine isn't moving or moving slowly. This can even be a real workplace hazard if the machinist gets confused by it.
@@Gameboygenius Wowza I didn’t even think of the safety concerns!! But what your comment makes perfect sense to me now that I think about it! (I guess I’m fortunate that PWM vs. Shutter Angle is only an artistic concern in my trade…)
Wow the tool holder for the large cutter has some bevel’s look like they were cut with a chisel
How is it that the work you put out is worthy of hanging on a wall just to marvel at it's beauty? I work in a shop and have never seen such amazing stuff🤣. Absolutely inspirational! There's no question why Chicago put your work in a Museum 👍
@4:47 - I use this method to set the tram and level of my 3D printer beds. Regular sheet of paper and close the gap till it drags. It's worked going on 3 years for 2 printers now.
A note to Andrew, the owner of this shaft... The proper fit for keys is a light press fit into the shaft and a clearance fit in the female bores of whatever attaches to the shaft. It is improper per established engineering standards to have slip fit keys in a shaft. Movement will result and the keyseat will fail from plastic deformation. These are not my standards. Look in the Machinery Handbook for the fits that I am talking about. If you have ground down, test fit keys, don't use them. Use new properly fitting keys. ---Doozer
10 thousand watched, and only 1.4 thousand liked! have the courage to say that this guy records a video that is interesting not only for beginners but also for professionals!!!
Thanks for reminding me. Liked
A rather expensive part after being machined no doubt. Likely its more precise than the original which Andrew will surely find out as he installs it into the machine.
Nice work Adam
Really cool tip on using the planer gauge , thanks. You mentioned there are several other "tricks of the trade" with planer gauges, would love to see a video on those. REALLY like this video, well done.
Very cool to see a project come out of the new shop! Do you know why he didn't use a press to straighten the shaft? You wouldn't have had this awesome series if he had chosen that route.
Being a welder/fabricator that is trying to venture more into machining, it was cool to see the planer and shaper gauge trick. Gonna have to use that one at work.
I have one and never knew what it was for, the older I get, I feel like I learn more?
The feed rate and shutter speed really make a very cool looking video. You are the man Adam. Work is outstanding ,and your video's are just as impressive. Thanks for always sharing.
Beautiful work as usual. My Dad this stuff all his working life. Finding his tool chest with it's sine bars in and calculation records was a bit of a thrill.
Funny how a gust of helium blew through the shop when you were offsetting for the 2nd woodruff key hahaha😁🤣😁🤣😁🤣😁🤣😁🤣😁🤣
Keep up the good work sir 👌😎
When you flipped your bar around, Adam, I wonder if you readjusted your end vice's solid jaw alignment location to compensate for the difference in diameter? It almost looked like when you cramped the end of the shaft..... It bended. (Maybe just an optical illusion)
Hi Adam I hope you are having a great time at your new shop I have a question for you please what size milling table and the size of the Kurt vice you have there all the best from AUSTRALIA 🇦🇺 Hoo Roo Paul 🍺👍
Adam, it is always a pleasure to watch and listen to you when doing these kinds of jobs requiring tricks of the trade and more! Maybe its just my eye-twitch thing happening but it was bothersome to watch the lower tapered part of the mill quill (black painted section, it seems). While I realize that the center is turning true, that wobble just kept buggin' me and I am thinking, "Really? Those KBC guys just couldn't take the time to grind that part?". Anyway, great work as always!
This was bugging me too, but if you watch closely at 37:55 you can see that the shoulder between the taper and the barrel of the quill is level, it's just that whoever painted that tapered part was a little sloppy and got some paint unevenly onto the barrel.
I'd just like to that Alvin for coming, unfortunately the rest of the Chipmunks weren't able to make it...
I would have set the planer gauge under the shaft, and thus used the bottom of the shaft as the reference height to set the bottom of the cutter. I would then raise the cutter (lower the knee) by shaft radius-half cutter width.
This avoids having to fool around with the indicator.
Whats the benefit of the wood-ruff key compared to a normal shear key?
Stronger as a woodruff keyseat is machined deeper into the shaft than a square key. BUT when things bind up, they can tear the shaft up more. Many metric designs use rectangular parallel keys instead of the square keys that American designs favor. --Doozer
@@kooldoozer gotcha, ty.
Excellent work. Great video. Nice tooling. Thank you for sharing.
Adam you have so much experience you don't even think of this. Any plane milling cutter with a hole in it must be put on arbor facing the right way . If you don't the cutter will run backwards and instantly dull the cutter right out.
I sharpen cutting tools for a living and I have seen it
with inexperienced operators. You can tell by the direction of the burn on the cutting edge. You have worked with this type of cutter for so long you don't even think about it .
What ever happened to your treasured scraper? Looks like you've moved on to digital controlled machines...
Do you still do work for the public I am local to you and have a small spine shaft I'd like to have made would you consider doing it for me I can't seem to find your business phone number or I would have called
Hi, JUst wondering why you didn't just use the indicator to sweep across to the top of the cutter and calulate your Z from there instead of using the planer guage?
So when cutting long key ways like the last cutting in this video... it's better to not climb cut r did abom...
Under cut it because it was just easier and it really doesn't matter...
22:05 the ole shaft STRETCHER , handy tool to correct under cutting.😉
Some Human playing with the CNC Lathe in the background too spanner in hand 🙃
Its Its funny but i made a planner gauge when i was an apprentice the tradesman always used a cigarette paper stuck to shaft to tell when the tool was .0005" to get the centre of the shaft he would scribe a line with the lathectool point when the shaft was in the lathe so he could move it in the milling machine and line the keys up
Well done mate
hola como siempre un trabajo perfecto ,
gracias por compartirlo saludos
👍👍😃😃👏👏Thanks again for sharing Adam, take care and have a great week
what's it mean to be on the flat when establishing the zero? wouldn't the depth be measured from the side dead center (if that's a thing)? do you need to bring it in until the entire height of the tool is cutting before establishing a zero?
Are you seriously not going to address the guy in the background getting your CNC machines hooked up?
Go to his Facebook page and see the action.
Lol all this touching off on the top of the shaft or having the issue of not being able to is cracking me up.
20 lb paper is 0.004" thick. though not sure what that paper is you used.
That's a boatload of chatter from a brand new mill... A big mill at that. Anyone want to toss in some speculations as to why? I know Woodruff cutters and slitting mills work better in horizontal mills with outboard support work better.
That shaft was pretty long, you'd have to hold it in quite a few spots to deaden all the ringing it's going to do. Even using 2 Kurt's, holding a round part with a square surface isn't much contact of a contact area. Regardless, it wasn't too bad and isn't a cosmetic part anyway. Otherwise I'm sure soft V-jaws would've been much better.
That's a thin shaft, so there will more chatter and vibration than if it were bigger.
I like watching you make things.
Andrew I hope the shaft works great for you.
Uy! at 16:39, the cutter is loose on the arbor. :) Very nice job, "as is tradition".
Hi! Why didnt you just zero the indicator on the top of the shaft and then adjust the higth of your tool directly with the indicator reading zero on it and calculate your tools position from that?
You are assuming that the cutter teeth are dead flat and true to the spindle... often they are not. Many cutters have some relief on the sides so one would have to somehow position the indicator probe exactly on the "highest" edge or tip of the cutter which is difficult to do. The way Adam did it takes care of those issues because the gaging face of the planer gage is in flat plane and parallel to the top of the shaft. It is quicker, simpler, and less error prone than doing what you suggest.
You don't even need a planer gage though they are, by far, handy tools to have. You can use square with a parallel clamp. You can use a combination square with two heads on it. You can use an adjustable parallel. You can use a height gage. You can use just about anything with a height that is within the range of your dial indicator, flat base and flat and parallel ledge or top... just have to add or subtract the difference.
Brilliant! Adam, take a minute on one of these to show what you use to clean the swarf out of your machines.
Is that shaft still straight after you cut the key ways in it? We usually pre-machine key ways on long shafts where I work.
Do you cut the keyholes first rough, then turn the shaft to size, and then finish the keys? This way there will be a lot of interrupted cuts. I'm just asking to learn.
@@belatoth3763 on a shaft with tight runout tolerances we rough out the diameters. 020 inches over size, then cut the key ways .010" deeper than plan dimensions. Then check the shaft for straightness, we usually have to use a press or heat to get it back within tolerance before we finish the diameters & threads
@@jimwright8379 What are the tolerances? tenths? Note that on this shaft the bearing journals are very close to the where the keyways are cut. The exception is one far out on the thin end with the long keyway and the one most prone to 'go banana shaped' but it is also unrestricted so less of a problem.
@@utidjian We are working on pump shafts for the US Navy , I can't tell you the tolerances that we are holding, however if it is running within. 005" T.I.R. for that friction press it's probably just fine.
@@jimwright8379 Ah well... yeah this is not a pump shaft. My guess is a few hundred RPM at most. Those bearings surfaces will be within 0.005" for sure. I am as curious as you exactly how much runout there is though.
The table looks all wonky because of the camera shake. It looks the table bends like cheese.
I am working in production line as a supervisor. I always follow his techniques of each work/job. His instructions during job are more valuable and useful too.i love watching every video he posts.great craftman 👌👌
These comments are aimed more at newbies and hobbyists - you experienced folks can skip 'em, agree, or razz me for being too obvious/pompous! ;)
Setting up your work is key to getting good results... that said, there are usually multiple ways to go about things, and multiple tools, some quite simple, that have evolved over the years. We are lucky to have so many options from indicators and digital readouts, to several more basic tools.
One thing that's key is knowing what your allowable tolerances are... sometimes in a hobby situation, we'll go for a tighter than necessary tolerance for practice, but if you need a repair part by a deadline for example, you might just want to consider doing things to the "Good Enough" standard without cutting corners.
Some of the older tools are bare-bones simple - a bit of wire rod ground to a point and held at a height by a couple of setscrews and rods off of a ground base - hey, you need to have something as a flat reference surface! -a good solid true square, and a level can often get the job done.
Think about your geometry, and you can probably come up with two or three ways to do your setup, often with tools you've already got... although, it can be fun to buy more toys... I mean tools! ;)
What would be a ballpark cost of machining that shaft?
Builder your on crate and ship it, put it on a pallet it may get damaged in shipping
Bet you can't wait to do ops like this in one setup on that Flex.
I am not a machinist, fabricator or welder.... I simply love to watch people who have skill in a craft, do their thing!. Especially manipulating metal and wood. It is amazing to me how humans without the benefit of Internet, Digital read outs and high precision instruments( relatively speaking) built some of the most coveted machinery and items by even todays standards... These men,... and women... Did with limited resources and tools, what todays machinist strive to achieve! Adam, your use of an "Old School' parallel really hit this home for me! It may be quicker to use new tooling and machinery... But someone with only a caliper and math... brought these new tools into being! May we teach our school aged kids.. real math and skills someday!! It is a dying art that needs a renewal!!
Man, that chatter. The cut should be closer to the supported area on the shaft.
Good job Adam! Very interesting project!
How’s Abby doing?
Take care and stay safe! God bless!🎚🙏🇲🇾🇲🇾🇲🇾
My wife chatter's a lot, I just put ear plugs in. Whoops, I saw a guy in the background stealing your machine, I assume he's adjusting it.
It appears to moving in reverse to me. That's actually cooler than not if looked to be not moving at all. A rudimentary calculation in my head makes me think it's only off by 1/4 of an RPM so that's impressive.
Hi Adam. Greetings from Lithuania. You are much appreciated for your videos tips and tricks and just everything you do on this channel. I Have a hobby workshop myself, by the way congratulations with your new shop, it's ridiculuosly awesome.
Anyway I've noticed that everything is quiet clean and shiny in your shop, and was just wondering how do you fight surface rust in your shops? I imagine you have an AC or something that helps a lot, but I just get frustrated and annoyed when I come back to my shop two days after and find forming rusty fingerprints on my chuck and anything else I touched. So now I'm just spraying every raw steel surface with automotive anticorrosive sprays and stuff like that, but it gets messy ant expensive over time. Any tips or thoughts on that?
Cheers!
Most machines thrive on neglect to be honest (when it comes to cleaning at least). Just wipe everything down with an oily rag when you leave the machine for longer and dont overclean.
If you watch Adam's older videos he shows what he sprays on his machines. It's in a green and silver spray can.
I can't remember it's name, sorry.
@@douglascampbell9809 Lots of CRC products
Great observation though...if you can 'feel' the resistance or chatter in manual machining, where are the sensory indicators when performing CNC work--are there differences in tooling in which it just doesn't matter? Need a plunge cut in whatever go for it no chattering involved?
They are a little more pricey but the Stagger Toothed Woodruff Keyseat Cutters cut smoother with far less if any squealing. There is a chart in Machineries Handbook that lists the cord dimensions of various size Keyseats and shafts. I kept a page marker in mine.
Adam, I loved that you showed the "Paper spacer" Technique. I learned that some 40 years ago in Basic Machine Shop.
Adam, have you ever used a Vortex Cooler and used cold air for coolant? I had a filter body that i had to keep as clean as possible so no coolant contamination was allowed. It worked, but it was hell on end mills (316 stainless, solid carbide ball end mill)
Interesting how you found the top of the shaft for the second cutter. I would have found the bottom, by setting the gauge on some parallels and adjusting it to touch bottem of the shaft. just goes to prove there are 102 ways to do just about everything.
My uncle use to be a machinist for a big company in Ontario Ca many years ago, he started his own small shop at some point and was doing well.....I had the opportunity to help aroumd the shop and I wish I had taken the time to learn mpre about what he was doing. Needless to say, im learning way more now through you than I would have at the time with him. My math skills has always been lack luster but you make machining much more cooler than ive seen most people do.
It was a pretty good video. Then we got unexpected sped up voice Abom and I nearly lost it. 🤣
I've run into those holes on shafting jobs before. A lot of times it's when they shear something but need the machine up and running right away, so they'll drill it for a roll pin. Not saying it's right.
Those guys in the background are finishing up the install of your new CNC mill, right?
Thanks for the videos! Where do you buy your tool holders, inserts, and can you do a video on selecting shank size. Thanks!
What a great piece of work and a perfect execution..! The end result is really neat, hats off!
I liked the part when the indicator didn't moved. Not even a tiny bit. Amazing precision!
Hi, from Sydney Australia.
What do you think of the 40 taper against an R8 that you would normally find on these Bridgeport clones?