The Big Build 15, Carpenter or Bricklayer who's job should it be to bed wall plates ready for a roof
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
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In this part of The Big Build we are cutting and bedding wall plates, this is exciting for me as this means that we are nearly ready to start putting on the joists and roof structures. We are well and truly getting into the new work here now and there are some great videos coming up so stay tuned!!!
It p!55es me off no end that you even have to ‘pick out’ straight wood from a timber merchant. The standards are atrocious lately.
Problem is it was still growing until last week ! Wood needs a rest.
Bang on, be nice if you didnt have to treat it like pick n mix.
I've meant to mention how good Robins Camera Man is. So often he catches aspects , beyond catching a really good angle that demonstrates clearly what's going on, but also pan's around behind tools that someone who wasn't thinking or who isn't aware of what tools are required for that given job would miss. So thanks to the guy behind the lens. Good job mate.
From a different country-different standards and culture. As a brickie, where I am. I fix upright taps (essentially long bolts) through the upright seams on the last full block. If they're bricks(those with holes) then the last 3 rows. The chippie then drills holes in the plate and fits it on the wall onto the upright bolts/taps. Which is of course already straight and level. And yes the mortar holds the top row of blocks down in spite of the pull of the nut being tightened down onto the plate.I fix a nut and large washer to the bottom end so it's also fixed from below.
May be hard to project manage on some jobs, but in an ideal world brickie and chippy do it together 👍🏼
Really interesting to watch the progress on the Big Build. I realise it must take a huge amount of time and effort to produce these videos. Thank you, they're really insightful and a good advert for the trade for youngsters.
Nice one Martin 👍
Bricklayers job, but you wouldn't want to trust them these days, I'm a Bricklayer and Carpenter and I never bed plates on my own work, I make sure my top of block is spot on level and flat and screw my plates dry direct to that, takes all the bows out and solid.
Sometimes do the same. I'm sure we'll hear why you shouldn't
@@chriscollins1704 Lol 👍
Only works if you’re working on a level surface to begin with.
That's the way we do it here in Ireland we just pack the plates up level with solid packers like slate
@@kryptoniteee Don't see what you mean, you gauge your blockwork up from a datum mark on each corner so everything is level and flat.
Good point about price work. Having the right tools speeds the job up. Customers don't want to pay a day rate that allows for the amount of tools you need as a builder. Not to mention how often you end up replacing tools that get stolen.
Most fitters or detail carpenters choose festool so it all adds up, these 'hidden' costs
Love your clips, I'm learning a lot from you and Mr Bisby. I loved that three points of contact on the ladder too, a hand on the ladder and the other on your Earl Grey lol, loving it
Pole plates are known as double wallplates in Ireland
Used due to increasing size of rooms and therefore deeper joists, Stops buckling of joists and if not used joists wouldn't be adequate due to larger tails being cut
Excellent videos, Robin your clients are extremely lucky to have your expertise on site, and the high attention to detail!!
Using your multi tool in place of the chisel on the lap joint.... nice!!! Time is money Robin. 👍🏻👍🏻
You got that right!
Multi tools have been a total game changer for most trades. I'm a spark and a rank them up alongside Wagos as the best thing to come along in recent times.
We drive some screws on the wall plate that gets bedded into the gear to give extra fixing. Quality work as always. Love the vids keep up the good work.
Doing exactly the same job on my extension/refurb , but I built it so I have to bed the plates myself, even keeping some ceilings intact with pole plates like you mention, removing old roof , replacing the whole area with new trusses whilst trying to keep dry and living in it , not stressful/anxiety inducing at all😳....
I don’t know all the rules but I remember seeing long metal straps told from one side of the wall over the plate and back down on the other side .
To prevent this he wind to uplift the roof .
Why not use wood shims and the strap to secure everything true ,square and level and afterwards go back and fill with mortar all the voids between the shims .
I imagine this won’t take you long since your such an experience carpenter.
And the mortar filling part can be done by your helper while you move on to cutting rafters….
Great job, My local builders merchants won’t even let me pick through the timber to find straight lengths, they say
there the same and don’t be fussy. obviously the yard workers have never tried to do a job with a piece of bent /twisted timber.😂😂
Use another merchant
Yet I bet he rummages the back of the chiller to find the freshest sandwich in his Tescos meal deal.
What a god send the laser level has been. When you get everything level, straight and true as a base line to work from then you can make up template lengths and cut as many replicates as you need knowing that when they go together there is no need for further trimming, fettling or measuring. Every extra hour spent getting everything right at the start saves several hours towards the end.
a joy to watch, you make everything look so easy. thank you
Thanks so much 😊
Robin, two things we were always made to nail brick mesh to the under side of the plate ( might have been a local council thing) but it got a grip, and second have you ever cut a roof with a bow saw 😁
Great work mate, very excited to see the roof construction videos 👌🏻!
So different with masonry walls. But a number of the techniques and tips apply to stick framing. Great to watch. Thanks for the video.
Stick framing sounds like Stone Age huts !
Great educational video as always. Keep up the great work
What do you think do dry fitting plates on packers, fixing down as you go? Then I point the plates in after. I like this as you can manipulate the timbers dead straight
I was wondering the same. Got to do this for the first time and the walls are not straight and parallel. I was thinking of doing similar as then I can pull the plates to help keep parallel and also pull out any bowing of the timber. Or is it a stupid idea?
Yep , it’s how I do it . I find bedding them on wet muck causes the plates to bow
Fantastic!
3 points of contact on that ladder Mr Clevett, that a crate of lager fine for the topping out party.
Couldn't get a brickie for the last foundations we needed. So, did them ourselves. Not as fast as the local suspects, but it got done. No bedding or cope, just anchored straight in. If we need to pour a cope or bed after the brickie, it's day rate.
Good to see you taking time to fit wall plates properly , think we've all see wall plates that look like a rollercoaster 🤦👍☘️🇮🇪👋 nice one 🤟
ya know summert rob i could quite easily watch ya all day long...
Hi Robin, your videos are great and very helpful but the audio is a bit hit and miss when you are busy working or walking away from the camera. Maybe you could try using a mic attached to you for a more consistent audio level. Thanks anyway for sharing the content. Much appreciated.
Surprised it's not the painters problem like everything else
Put a few drywall screws into the underneath of the wall plate, sticking out say 1/2" , this bonds the timber to the mortar and they stay put while it sets.
Cut nails into mortar joint.
I just spent 2 years on a Bellway site and never actually bedded wall plate on because the chippies never cut it in time. We just bedded on 4x1 instead lol
I'm also surprised you didn't have to put a course of class bs under the plate where you triple trimmer was. On site we put class bs under trimmer joists and ofter pad stones under the wall plate for the same.
Love watching your videos. I usually staple damp course onto the bottom of the wallplate and up the inside before laying onto the morter.
That is a job I don't miss. As the inner walls are all timber on most Aussie houses and they are the load bearing walls the top ribbon plate is the pitch point complete once you have finished framing. Add cosmetic brick work or cladding. Most processes are a lot easier here. Very American style of building simple quick easy kit like structures mostly lacking in style or character. But now definitely not cheap. And still can't get the materials to build them.
Great work as always. Really enjoying the series! Out of interest, what is the advantage of a rear handle saw over the more standard type?
When I'm lucky enough to watch it when it's loaded 👍
Let's see what you discover today 😁
Loving these videos! Great work! Looking very neat!
Great to see start right finish right a little time taken at the start saves loads of time later but not everybody gets it. Have you had chance to start the van fit out? Cheers 👍
Nice Milwaukee Advert Great Job Robin
Hold on, let me just grab my 12 cordless circular saws 😂 I can only dream of owning kit like that haha
Imagine having to pay for them- promote Milwaukee gets the lot for nowt!
@@EcoMan-te4vu Nothing in life is free!! even free stuff!! we still have to earn it!!
Great stuff! Thanks. I think maybe you need some "Tommy Walsh" braces though to keep your trousers up! Ha ha!
Tommy is a great guy!!! 👍👍👍
brush a bit of water on the blockwork + WP then the compo wont pull so quickly
What do you mean by WP is it waterproofer ?
Wall Plate
@@effingandjeffing8270 Thanks effing and jeffing
Surely, chippies will build the wall plates and dry lay for them the brickies to bed on?
Ideally have chippies on site during bedding, in case of human malfunction.
Maybe the brickie and the chippie could work together?!
Nice to Swedish quality timber in use 👌
Nothing but perfection as always, it does all seem very old fashioned given the tech we have these days, and now with crazy timber prices I wonder what the alternatives are
Time to upgrade from the canvas snake belt to carpenter’s braces to save you having to keep pulling your trousers up 😉
The added bonus, you’ll look fabulous.
Well funny you should say that because I am now the proud owner of a Diamondback rig with the braces and its a game changer!!! Nice one Michael!!
Hi Robin, what laser and receiver are you using here? I need a new one as I've broken my PLS laser which runs at 30 degrees now as standard. P.s on private work I think we should run our own plates in or at least with the bricky. Lovely job.
I always wonder the concept of embedding the wall plate into bed of mortar ,is it for strengthing or for level ?because mortar never stick to wood so cant be for strengthing ,is it for to level the wall plate ?
It is mainly to get everything flat and level, it also transfers the roof loads evenly over the walls it does adhere to a point but we use restraint straps to ties it all down
Great video Robin, thanks !!!!!
Carpenters mate, we can’t complain then if there out 😄
Some people are asking why would you price for 6 if it only takes 5 weeks. The answers simple he can do it in 5 cos he has the tools, the extra weeks pay paid for all those tools.
On a big job like that you have to allow a bit of flexibility. You reckon it takes 5 weeks, and you lose a few days early on, maybe because slow suppliers, whatever, and thats it. You are flat out for the rest trying to catch up. And you'll still only just make enough, or more likely you'll lose out and be subsidising your customers house extension.
If you allow a week extra, and the customer is happy with your price, happy days. If nothing goes wrong, and you finish in 5 weeks, great. Job done, customer pays up nice, you're a good boy for finishing ahead of schedule and the first fix sparks can get in and start.
You got an extra weeks money in your sky, time to get straightened out, clear out the van, make sure everything is sorted for the next job so that goes smoothly as well. Then take the misses out for lunch.
@@rossbuchanan7632 Spot on Ross
Wood quality is terrible recently I went through x30 pieces for two C16's last week great if you was a cowboy builder, and don't even get me started on the prices recently to 😵😱
Great work 👍 as always.
im a chippie of 12 years. done site, domestic, the lot.
when doing trussed roofing on stie the bricklayers lay the plates, they're never right but speed is top priority.
most carpenters on site are what i would call an improver at best. the new build scene is a sorry one. avoid.
Same with a lot of the bricklayers on site, line monkeys, sorry improvers. The formans are either old alcholics who can't lay anymore or young guys giving it the large one. It's like the blind leading the blind.
It's a matter of price the price is set by the big builder's bellway Simmons ect if you got 3 pound a meter for the wallplate I'd be surprised 🔨
@@harveysmith100 Tell me about it. Fellow brickie here and it's shocking that so many trowels can't build a corner free hand with a level, etc. Two of the black hats (foremen for those who've never done site work in the UK) on my site in Bermondsey only finished college a year or so ago but to be fair they're pretty decent blokes but I've been on sites before where young foremen are way out of their depth.
Surprised you dint mention spraying (or brushing) water onto the blocks - especially if it a a hot summer day.
As a bricklayer I have a question Robin, do you get a lot of twist after the plate has absorbed the moisture from the mortar, or the way you block it down is enough? On site we never have anything at hand to weight it down properly.
I often wondered if a role of DPC between the mortar and plate would prevent it twisting. Interested in your thoughts.
Hi Harvey, the plates do often move once the moisture from the mortar so the weight really helps until we land our joists, sometimes we soak the timber before laying the plates especially if there is hot weather, have a good day mate
Stick a few heavy blocks on them after your happy bedding them on !
@@liamwalters5029 Yes, I do on my own jobs but on a big housing estate you have no chance of getting some concrete blocks up for that
Will someone take that bleeping laser level off him! What else did you get for Christmas Robin? 😳
Hi Robin, It looks like you have created a thermal bridge by putting the blocks on top of the “wonky wall”?
With renovations and conversions there are always times where the construction detail is not standard or indeed ideal we have to look at using other trade offs like additional insulation etc to help it all work as an overall scheme
@@ukconstruction Thanks for the reply! Ya I see what you are saying and love your work… BUT… Try telling that to the owner when they have condensation and mildew growing on the walls or grey ghost marks on their new paintwork. I hope that the house will be well ventilated and not too tightly sealed!
Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing!
Really frowned upon in Oxfordshire to cut the blocks under plate… block should be cut before and full depth block under plate
Whoever is competent.
. Great work and video.If only all builders were perfectionists, lol.
Why not use it is the lorry got it
Not fair to single out builders for not all being perfectionists.
I suspect a lot less work would be done, besides being a lot more expensive
If only we could all get the price he's getting 😝🔨
Looking like D'Artagnan laying the mortar :)
Another cracking video Robin 👍
Thanks Jeff!!
I'm not a builder, but surprises me the wall plates aren't fixed with fixings into the wall. *Not a criticism, I have zero knowledge about fitting roofs🤣
They are after with four foot straps going down the wall to stop the roof from lifting.
I’ve commented on here Robin i know you’ll see and feel passionate about it, after seeing your apprenticeship video I made the jump the take two on. No one else will they don’t want HMRC knowing their details for tax purposes, the trouble me and the missus have had it’s absolutely disgusting, 6 months of weekly calls with our apprenticeship rep, it’s an absolute joke. We’ve registered as employer then you need this letter that letter this log in, just a shambles.
It's a bloody nightmare!! Well done for trying mate, please persevere for the sake of the trade!!! Happy to chat on the phone about your experiences if you want??
@@ukconstruction It would be good to talk we’ve been on it again, come home from plasterboarding a garage conversion then an absolute nightmare changing to be an employer, the funding doesn’t cover anything it’ll cover some PPE. There’s no incentive for business to employ the youth, I know you’ve had a dozen or so you’re a lot more versed than I am
Hi Robin. Great job. Q. Why do you use a lap joint on that wall plate return? Could you not just but up a short section of timber?
Hi Sandy, this is how we meet all wall plate ends straight or returning, its tradition and how I was taught
Master Chippie can climb a ladder with a cup of tea not spilling a drop!
It needs both trades there if possible if not crack on don't get paid enough to worry about a fc UK ing wall plate being a bit out of level parallel
site work is ok, in parts. i hate the skill level and pricing. £30 a fire door with latch and keep. only a proper carpenter would make money on that. swing 10 the first days, latches and stop the 2nd day.
fitting a 4x2 packer on the wall for cistern. £25 a flat. My old apprentice earnt £1350 that day whilst I tried to earn a wage.
don't you put any fixings on the bedded ones ?
Good job
can these wallplates not be screwed/bolted down on packers? this would help with bows in the wood? also if this can be done what sort of packer could be used apart from slate? thanks... great video
Why not just butt the corners rather than half lap. Never seen this working here in Northern Ireland 🇬🇧
Drove past this in Ashington
next time say hello!!!
Just scoop it out of the bucket…!!!😊
One building controller pointed to me that timber wall plate should not lay directly on mortar so mow we are using dpc separating wall plates, what s your thoughts about that Robin?
0nly seen this at dpc level for timber frame etc
Interesting! Tools have got quicker, better etc. IMO, every trade has to have a good understanding & appreciation of other/adjacent trades to be able to get things done. Eventually, if one wants to take up complete builds, this is the way to go I.e. multiple skill sets
There's to much to learn of every trade we all need each other 🔨
Everyone knows it's the bricky who fits the wall plates. What self respecting chippie is going to get his hands dirty by mixing up compo!
out of square and not mechanically fixed.
I may be wrong but I think they'll prefer the money over the trowel.
Selco..loaded trolly..paid..loading onto van ..saw how warped and bent it was..got money back...asked what happens to it.."it goes back in the rack"!!!!!!!!!!(for another victim)
I always thought sand and cement was bad on bare timber, thought I’d caused it to rot quicker
Robin, how much did the big build cost?
A lot of people like day work, coz you can estimate 6 weeks for something & it could take 7. You get a good rate of pay for a days work, nothing wrong with that?
Would never bed wall plates on pack and screw 🏴👍
Maybe they deliberately built the back wall in a "wonky" state so it would have "that old house feeling". Perhaps you are not giving the previous builder(s) enough credit. I once saw a constructor argue with a group of lawyers and expert witnesses that it is common practice to delibertly build a kitchen floor 2 inches out of level in 10 feet in a new houses so it will have "that old house feeling". His insurance had to pay out...but I do wonder...which takes more time "plumb, level and square" or deliberately "wonky"?
DIY 👍
Do you use laser receiver with Milwaukee laser? I have the ox receiver and not sure it’s working with it too well. Love the m12 laser though
Will you ever fix the plates mechanically to the walls?
We use a long metal restraint strap fixed over the wall plate and a metre down the walls on the inside
17:55 very very true.
Robin, do wall plates get screwed or nailed as well as bedding on mortar? Interested to know as you think that it could just lift off with enough force. Lovey job too!!
When the mortar is set then wallplate straps are fixed to plate and wall , it's like a big L bracket upside down with holes in for fixing
@@paulnewman2115 yes of course. They just showed them on James build on Skill builder.
strapping
Express anchor them first then straps down the wall
How many roofs have you built on your own?
As the boss I mean
as i understand sir you do not put wall plates on internal walls when I did it the inspector may us remove them
Plastic wall plates? I'm not in the construction industry, but was wondering if there is such a thing as plastic wall plates (from recycled plastic) or even plastic rafters. It would solve the problem of timber shortage and you would not need to look around for straight lengths. Sorry if this causes an offence to people who love working with wood.
Do you really think plastic rafters are strong enough to hold up a roof?🤣
@@harryhope7139 How would you know ? If a manafacturer produces one to code, then why not ?
@@harryhope7139 mate, some plastics are stronger than steel, so replacing wood or cement blocks entirely would not be an issue
@@RubenKemp Excellent reply. I think speaking to a Material Engineer would be the way forward, material strength, fire resistant, expansion & reduction properties as well as what fixings could be used. But remember recycled ♻️ plastics only. 👍
i've seen plastic decking timbers ...they're not cheap though
I’d be interested to see how much you charge for wall plates seeing as a couple of lengths took you so long.
6 lorries last 2 pence
On s house bashing jobs about 3 pound a meter 🔨
Why does it have to bedded on, can it not be screwed and packed up to suit if you are working on a wonky wall head
The screw pulls the brick off the bed below. Bed on and fix angle straps down to where theres a bit of weight to the wall,then the weight of the roof will do the rest.
👍
Always get the brick specialist to bed the wall plate and if the roof ends up on the P*** you can blame him that’s what us Irish do 🍀
Doin a great job as usual lad , but ya mauling with rough wood , do you not like wearing gloves n proper safety glasses ? Or do they get in the way ?, Keep up the vids.
I will always try to wear appropriate PPE when carrying out different tasks, gloves are sometimes a pain as they make it hard to hold a pencil accurately etc!!!
Chippy cuts 'em....bricky beds 'em...you're welcome.
Hi robin what lazer level are u using cheers buddy
Can you do me a favour as an old trowel who may well have worked with your father in law on the Bentall's job. Clean his trowel properly before you put it away. I am sure you do.
Never use a dirty trowel, it is like using a blunt saw.
Absolutely Harvey, it would break my heart to see it in poor condition!!
@@ukconstruction I thought so Robin, I have seen how clean your mixer is!!