Microphone mods: de-suckifying an SM57 clone
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- Опубліковано 3 гру 2018
- Some mods to an $8 knockoff mic to de-suckify it a bit.
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The mod is done! It sounds awesome, a little bit warmer and fuller than before. Thanks Alex, now i can use this new mic. Regards from Chile.
Cote Baeza what values of capacitor and resistors did you use?
Why does the mod sounds better to me!!! Great research and very informative video man!!
Excellent video. Like others here, I’d love to see a more in-depth, step by step how-to on modifying the ‘57 clone. I already own more ‘58s and ‘57s than I need, but I just love making custom stuff like this for the fun of it.
Excellent work! Much appreciated-
I'm in the uk and just bought one of these from Amazon for £6.45. Don't let the price put you off. It sounds very good as it is. I'll get the mod done tomorrow. Thanks for a very informative video.
£6? Do you have a link?
Nice, good stund👍
Thanks for sharing 😀👍
Great vid on the 57 clone, great comparison. Just 1 thing to comment on, that a transformer is not necessarily needed for a mic to be balanced. If the mic element is already the intended impedance, no transformation is required. There have been a few pro dynamic mics that have been connected as such (Astatic, EV, Turner). Thumbs up!
The effort it took to mod and additional materials, I'll just live with the mic as unboxed.
My question, which of these mics is a truer representation of the voice ? I run both a Pyle PDMIC59 & PCMIC78 mics plugged into guitar amps. One is a Pyle PVAMP60 Reverb and the other is a Fender Mustang I V2. The mics sound different for the amp it plugs into and even more so with the Fender Mustang I V2 when the amp sims are used. A 57 Fender Deluxe, is not a 59 Fender Bassman, is not a 65 Fender Twin Reverb, and nor are any of those a 2019 Pyle PVAMP60 R. And none of them are an acoustic amplifier nor are they a PA system from brand to brand. That said, the Shure is relatively more predictable throughout the frequency range. But those peaks, the microphone as a capture device didn't create them out of thin air, the peaks of frequency have to be created by the true voice of the vocals or instrument that is being captured by the mic. The Shure, relatively, either eliminates those peaks, since it's a peaky microphone in it's own right. And then, not only is the amp going to process a signal, it's forwards that to a cabinet that has different speakers in it as well. To say the Shure is better is really difficult to say, they're both different and the audience will prefer one to the other from listener to listener. Where I've found that feedback creeps in is in the higher frequencies and that happens with volume. The clone is 12 dB stronger. So it won't need as much volume/gain from a knob even at lower volumes ? So each of these has it's own personality/voicing, just like your guitar, pedals, amp & cabinet in the circuitry chains.
In relation to the holes in the capsule, I'm not sure about the depth but the size of the holes is important because of the Hermholtz effect. I think it would be interesting to try a paper disc with smaller holes to fit over the existing disc holes and see if that helps. Really surprised to find the holes are a different size on the chinese microphone.
That was a great detailed video!!
Really enjoyed to see the process and anlysis of yours in order to make this mic usable and so close to the real deal!
Scheme of the circuit you made will be very usefull. Can you share it with us please?
I got this mic from a crap karaoke sweet and wanted to put a 57 capsule in it so it had a switch but wasn’t crap, thank you very much.
You were doing so well. I even liked you...and then you brought out the math hahaha :) I just disassembled Jebson piece of crap vocal mic and I plan to make it sound better...somehow. THANK YOU FOR POSTING. Yours is the first tutorial I have found that actually shows me what to do. Im never gonna fall asleep tonight. Can't wait for tomorrow.
Hail, hail rock 'n' roll
Deliver me from the days of old
Long live rock 'n' roll
The beat of the drum is loud and bold
Rock, rock, rock 'n' roll
The feelin' is there, body and soul
Great video
Hello. I think you may want to try a passive bandstop filter instead of a low pass by just putting an inductor, resistor and a capacitor in series, shunting the capsule : it would preserve the gain, impedance, and high end of the microphone
Jk I like what you did here the experiment and lessons pretty legit I subbed
Alex, awesome video. I have a question for you. I assume your PDMIC78 was wired to have an unbalanced output. How should I go about adding the passive eq to a PDMIC78 with balanced output wiring? Should I simply put in place the filter on both cables coming from the capsule to the XLR jack? Regards!
by chance do you have a more in depth video of the mod being done? or instructions for us with not so much know how lol
Wondering what happens if you take dynamic capsule and add it to a schoeps/alice preamp circuit that has a super high impedance in gig ohm range and normally used for electret capsules..would you get no sound, and have to drop input resistor down 100k?
And also how can I apply the same to an unbalanced Pyle pdmic78?
Well done. Will be modding the Pyle POS I just picked up for the shits n giggles
Most excellent technical video delivered in layman's terms. A while back I actually purchased a handful of the Pyle PDMIC78 microphones for the same reasons that you mentioned about clubs or bands pinching microphones that I used on guitar rigs and I was surprised at how well they performed. One of the biggies is the internal shock absorbers in these cheap mics because no matter how well the frequency response is, a microphone that turns a mic stand into a microphone where you pick up the floor being walked on is beyond useless in ANY situation. These worked out to be reasonably quiet in a stand and they worked out quite nicely as a bass guitar mic too. Have you had a chance to tinker with any of the PDMIC78 mics?
I took mine apart and changed out the wiring from the hair thin stuff they have to 18 gauge, and it made a huge difference. I use them as overheads in ORTF. I didn't think about until watching this but you could fill the handle with rubber cement to cut down on handling noise and that mic stand noise. That helps in the real 57s and 58s.
@@gillihansmobilewelding What you are really paying for with the more expensive microphones are the internal shock and vibration absorbers that eliminate or greatly reduce the microphones ability from picking up vibrations from mic stands etc. The shock absorbers not only need to suspend or float the microphone element to isolate it from vibration but they also have to be built well enough to take a bit of accidental punishment too should the mic take a hit or accidentally get dropped.
Thanks Bro I made it to the end! I bought two beat up SM57's on ebay. One sounded really thin compared to the other and a couple of references a 58 and a unidyne3 I have here. It turns out that the diaphragm was somehow in contact with the rotating grill and slight pressure on it sideways brought the low end back in intermittently. It got dropped I bet. So I decided to "fix it". I trashed the capsule when the diaphragm popped up off the voice coil mount inside. So now I have a Chinese clone capsule coming. It said "Quality" so what can go wrong? Thanks for the video. Tod
Thanks very much for the video, Alex. I saw it a few years ago and made a note to come back and do this at some point. I recently had a need for more microphones (we all need more microphones, always ...) and didn't feel like spending several hundred currency for the use case in question, so I bought a couple of £11 Weymic wm57s (same mic) to attempt this. It worked spectacularly. I made a short video comparing one of my modded cheapies with a genuine SM57 here:
ua-cam.com/video/5lzRt4n1sOM/v-deo.html
The only difference between my audio and yours is that: (a) I managed to use 270nF for the cap, 220R for the lead resistor and 430R for the shunt, and (b) I didn't bother removing the microphone top in order to change the foam. It may well help with plosives but, if my results are anything to go by, I don't think it does much with the frequency response.
If anything, my results are _even closer_ than yours, but my voice is bass-ier, so that might mitigate some of the differences in the high frequencies. For anyone trying the mod, some of my notes / thoughts are in the description of the linked video. Thanks again. Like you, I'm going to do a couple more just for when you need them, or extreme drum set-ups (there's always that fool with six additional rototoms ...).
Could you put up a link or an image of the circuit diagram of the high-cut RC EQ? I'd appreciate it!!
yes, that would be helpful
ok, found the additional video ua-cam.com/video/ntHY_qrcQxU/v-deo.html Thanks
not a big reveal with that noise lol, i'd honestly grab a tiny transformer and balance the output, that cut the noise down to a usable point for me, im going to do it to the rest of mine now probably
Actually looking into this video for cheaper sm7b alternatives for recording death metal style vocals. I'm looking into budget broadcast mics such as podmic, Mxl bcd-1 etc... or the sm57 or 58 max budget being $150 Any suggestions? Any info would be greatly appreciated!
If you dig the metal vocal sound that is popular these days, an sm57 or sm58 will get you reeeeally close to the SM7b. They don't have the additional screen, cage, and filtering of the SM7b, but they are a lot cheaper if you don't mind using external pop guard, etc.
Actually Julian Krause made a video on exactly this topic, check it out!
would metalized polyester caps be okay?
I don't understand the numbers, graphs or much of the actual spoken content but I like your voice. Will you be my dad?
Is there a step by step process and recommended parts list for this mod?
What is the price difference?
The genuine SM57 seem more noisy (lower quality) in the Harvard test.
Knockoff seem to be the best deal here.
I was probably here for 3D printing things, but this is the kind of thing that interests me too. Gives me ideas to play around with crap that I happen to have. Wait what do I have? An old TASCAM interface, a generic condenser microphone (34mm membrane, 132db, 48V/150Ohm), a bunch of unidentified dynamic ones...
The narration sounds perfectly adequate... But I wonder, in direct comparison modded cheapy Vs real 57, the cheapy sounds ... A bit harsh? Distorted? As if there was a tiny bit of not quite rectification but at least assymetry in response between positive and negative pressure going on there? Saturation? I wonder where that is coming from. Is the capsule designed wrong? Is it perfectly fine and the distortion is perceived due to unrelated circumstance?
I agree. If you get right down to it, the cheapo still has some harshness up top, a bit of boxiness, and some kind of... crinkle? I would probably chalk that up to the diaphragm design being so plain. Still not bad for
@@AlexKenis If you're curious my no-name condenser is this one: ua-cam.com/video/B_TNqqbiQIg/v-deo.html
I mean... it sure sounds a lot less distorted than the Neewer and the likes you get today from Chinese sellers and Amazon. I think it was originally (our rough regional equivalent of) $40 and i probably got it half off on clearance maybe 10 years ago. It's a brand of a hobby store chain.
For comparison the SM57 hanging right next to it here: ua-cam.com/video/HxX4j5TXFDs/v-deo.html
These aren't my microphones, in fact i don't have an SM57, it's just some random dude on the Internet.
So what are the final mods ?? You mention all the possible mods but never put up together a conclusion
Shred demon
LOL Clones. Have you ever upgraded ribbon mics? I wanted to try to find a good Royer clone. The last mic I modded was an MXL R40 Lundahl upgrade.
Not much ribbon mic tinkering. I rewound a ribbon transformer for a friend once, but that was about it, and I was actually sketching up some plans for a 3d printed small toroid winding machine the other day that I can hopefully tinker with in my "spare time" (haha). I have been meaning to pick up one of those MXL's though, or a Nady because it is hard to sneeze at the price. There were a few eastern european folks putting out DIY 121-looking clone parts on the cheap a while back, but I can't remember the name or of they actually sounded like a 121 or just LOOKED the part. GroupDIY and Gearslutz would probably be the best reference.
@@AlexKenis LOL Spare time. My projects have projects. I actually lurk all those groups including all the DIY Pedal and Amp Building groups. I saw a few of those 3D printed guitar pickup winder projects. The number of 3D printed guitar projects has increased a bit in the past year actually.
@@Deneteus That's actually what got me interested in 3D printing years back was making custom bobbins for pickups and jigs for guitar building. It was all downhill from there. I hope to post some 3D printable, open-source plans for both toroid and bobbin type CNC winders when I have a chance to finish up the designs and software (I got hung up on automating the wire tensioning and shoved it on a shelf). Those forums were my old stomping grounds (and AX84 and DIYaudio, etc, etc) , but I got busy with music and fell out of the loop in the mid 2000's. I think I learned more online over there from guys like PRR than I did in school.
@@AlexKenis I got into 3D printing because I had ignored it for so long and I wanted to make enclosures for pedalboard batteries, arcade spare parts and other assorted electronics projects. It just made more sense to print enclosures than to buy them and have to mod them to what I needed.
The only thing that sucks about the internet is that a few of the older sites where amp builders and designers posted about their projects have disappeared from the intarwebs. Some of them have made it to Facebook though.
11:02 "Any transformer-less mic that's not using an electronically balanced circuit is going to have a very low CMRR, which means the longer the cable run..." pardon me? The dynamic microphone capsule is a coil, it appears to be fundamentally the same as the secondary of a transformer, with the only difference is that the current is induced by the field of a magnet moving relatively to it, as opposed to the magnetic field being created electrically by another winding. Unless you were for some reason to tie one leg of the capsule to pin1=ground=shield, which would indeed be a mistake, where would a CMRR issue come from? Or indeed any common mode current at all, because i mean, it's a bloody loop of wire right from XLR pin 2 to pin 3, so any current flowing is exclusively differential in nature.
I also had the stupidest of ideas just now, that almost can't possibly work, but i mean, where's the fun in not trying, and i mean, the max damage is $5 for an identical replacement capsule from China. So let's say the membrane structure is unfortunate, and may be responsible for some of the bad temper of these cheap microphones. How about burning in the membrane to the point of almost damaging it. All the DIY/hobby HIFi magazines burn-in midbass and bass drivers before measuring TSP, because the numerical TSP shift a lot after running the drivers once for a short time at high amplitude. It is to be said though that it's largely an interdependent change, and while values change, the frequency response and the waterfall almost never do, it's just that the values are sensitive to small changes, but the results of the simulation lagely still come out the same - except for a slight shift in the bass resonant impedance peak and a little bit of computed ideal cabinet volume difference, but realistically the estimates have enough of a fundamental error that computed dimensions for resonant bodies are a rough guide anyway, and generally need to be adjusted iteratively by building a few not-quite-duds which miss the mark just slightly and measuring the whole speaker. Burn-in with headphones, which are very closely related to microphones construction wise, was never experimentally demonstrated to my knowledge, not even once. But it is to be said that these experiments were done with good headphones, rather than junk, and chances are they are assembled more carefully with no stray glue droplets flying around all over the place and with good placement of components as they're glued in rather than putting them in somehow stressed and off kilter. What if with junk, there just might be a difference.
The method i suggest that this might be done, is by driving the microphone capsule with some kind of an amplifier, to make it work itself in a much larger range than it would acoustically, basically running it as a headphone speaker driver rather than a microphone. I'm thinking 5V RMS will do no damage to the capsule, and you might even get a sound or visible movement out of it. In fact i've got a 600 Ohm microphone here, where i'm sure i forgot the phantom power on, and then also accidentally shorted one of the differential pins to ground pin, which means there were 48V flowing through 600+6.8K Ohm so in total 7.4k Ohm with 0.006A and 0.3W and it hasn't caught fire, it's still working, so i mean, it might be good up to 12V pumped straight into a 600 Ohm capsule :D at least mine was. Maybe it will work the membrane in just the right manner.
Now i suspect that if there is a nonlinearity, it's likely not down to membrane shape, and burn-in will do absolutely nothing. I think that to the extent there is any, it's about positioning. The coil is bonded perpendicular to the membrane and is moving up and down a gap of a magnet. As long as the coil wire is strictly perpendicular to magnet field lines, you have perfect amplitude response linearity. Now i've never seen a real or a fake SM57 membrane in person, but from the pictures you're showing, it looks like on the real, you can almost not see the coil, it's hidden down in the magnet's gap, right where it belongs, so it's presumably in that nice and nearly straight perpendicular field. In a clone, it looks like the coil is butting straight up against the membrane top, which is a distance away from the magnet top, and is partially in the curved section of the magnetic field. Furthermore the effect is potentially asymmetrical, as with membrane moving down, it descends into a more linear region, and with it moving up, it becomes less linear. Also the magnet gap width is of essence, the narrower it is, the better, but then you need higher manufacturing precision. See that's always the thing with these grey market things - you're thinking of differences between well engineered products overseen by people with scientific background, where someone made a fractionally better membrane shape than someone else after months and years of work, but what you have in front of you, is some uncle in China who scored a wonky discarded piece of machinery after some factory upgraded, and he and his family learned to make miniature capsules with it in their shed - they don't know what they are and how they work, but they somehow manage to make something that at a first glance looks and works... I mean sure there are companies in China just as well who know what they're doing, but you also get to stare into all kinds of sheer ignorance.
Have you seen the new ESPWebDav modules from two Chinese companies? These make a simple wifi fileserver with an ESP8266, based on an old open-source software project, and they plug right into the display's SD-Card socket, emulating an SD-Card. FYSETC SD-WIFI and Bigtreetech SD-Cloud/TF-Cloud. They're engineered completely differently, there doesn't seem to be anything in common between them... but both didn't observe the keep-out area for the ESP8266 module antenna! There's a ground pour and a ton of components beneath the antenna! It'll still kinda work, but i mean... who in their right mind? Why?
thanks for this i'm going to buy cheap knockoffs from China and mod and sell them and make good profits.
on a Serious note though, if you were talking into the modded mic the whole video, i'm thoroughly impressed.
Compressed audio in the audio clips, bring up ground loop hum from a nearby electronic...fyi
Why didnt the china maker put that resistor in the first place.
If only i could solder.
You can. It’s not hard. Just watch some UA-cam videos about it and practice a while on old junk to get good at it.
OK, if I want to add it to balanced mic I need 220r on hot and cold signal each, and 270nF cap between hot and cold, wright? Where should I put 470r in this case?
*upd found the answer on you other video, it would be better, if You put it in the description. ua-cam.com/video/ntHY_qrcQxU/v-deo.html
The Behringer Xenyx mixers are stated to have a normal 2.6k ohm impedance in the mic inputs. I 10k ohm figure I think only applies to the TRS line in. Interesting video nonetheless. I used to use the Pyle for bedroom scratch vocals, as given it's lack of bass and clear highs, it worked well for being right on top of without much proximity effect.
Alex, what value shunt cap did you use for this video? You said you had one below and one above but never clarified.
yes, 224 or 334?
ok, found the additional video ua-cam.com/video/ntHY_qrcQxU/v-deo.html Thanks
Thanks!!
Deadpool gets revenge on the sound equipment industry by creating a disruptive low cost solution. You may not have realised this yet but you just provided the world with a marketable product that would of made you a millionaire. A few tweaks to the design to avoid being sued and you would of created your own product line. Just saying.
i assume the white wire with the red stripe is hot 20:22
U MEAN NO AC ON THE TANTULUM LOL?
Not much difference at all. Slight yes, $85 difference, absolutely not IMO.
The price difference should show in the build quality and longevity
These are mesures that cant really ne heard by the human ear at all
Get your hearing tested, not an insult, I'm serious. Or maybe your youtube playback hardware has poor reproduction.
So you're saying to us budget muSicians or studio engineer Is to mod a 57 clone by buying an expensive aS S###$$ genuine 57 And swap it with the shitty mic.....bruh
You seem ignorant when you start making assumptions and obviously don't finish watching the video. Chill your emotions homie. He used the parts from his "expensive as $h@" ($99 🙄) microphone to see what he needed to do to get it as close as possible with the ACTUAL mod. Then, he took those parts back off and did the mod. You would know this if you didn't start crying half way through.