Are the schools of Takamatsu Sensei Real? Why do people say the Bujinkan and other schools from Takamatsu Sensei have no real connection to History. Well I say they do and here's some proof.
"Dr. Hatsumi was asked many years ago to provide documentation of some of his lineage for admittance to the Kobudo Shinkokai, perhaps the most reliable of the major organizations of traditional Japanese martial arts, and according to Donn Draeger, in a conversation to me, he was not able to provide documentation which proved his lineage to their satisfaction. Thus, there are uncertain areas in Dr. Hatsumi's lineage."
Exactly what a Ninja would say. If you have documentation from a Ninja clan, then it wasn't Ninjutsu. Documentation proves there is NO Ninjutsu in the document.
Modern Togakure-ryu and various historical claims are taught by Masaaki Hatsumi (Takamatsu's successor) and the Bujinkan organization. Criticism regarding the historical accuracy of the Bujinkan's claims of lineage have arisen from several issues of the Bugei Ryūha Daijiten: The 1978 version of the Bugei Ryūha Daijiten states that Takamatsu's Togakure-ryu "genealogy includes embellishments by referring to data and kuden about persons whose existence is based on written materials and traditions in order to appear older than it actually is."[38] The 1969 version of the Bugei Ryūha Daijiten states that Takamatsu's Togakure-ryu "is a genealogy newly put together by Takamatsu Toshitsugu, who made use of (took advantage of) the popularity of written materials on ninjutsu after the Taishō era" and that "there are many points where it has added embellishments, it has made people whose real existence is based on written records older than is actually the case, and so it is a product of very considerable labor".[39] The 1963 version of the Bugei Ryūha Daijiten states of Takamatsu's Togakure-ryu "this genealogy refers to various written records and oral transmissions and there are many points/places where embellishments have been added and people appearing in the genealogy are also made older than they actually are".[40]
I have studied some Bujinkan (trained with Jack Hoban, a very bad experience) and met several black belts in the system, as well as studied several other martial arts and lived in Japan for 2 years. Personally, the issue I take with the Takamatsu-den is mostly how they are trained, rather than the content. There's a lot of delusional people out there with high belt ranks that would be unable to apply 90% of what they believe they have learned against a fully resisting opponent, let alone a skilled fighter. Though I think the real criticism of the Bujinkan from a scholarly perspective is mostly of the self-proclaimed ninjutsu schools. I believe all of the samurai lineages were verified through historical research by the organization in Japan that handles such matters (and takes it extremely seriously) whereas Hatsumi Sensei simply wouldn't submit the materials required to prove the authenticity of the lineage. I personally don't believe it's all fake, but I do think there's something the public and even the students aren't being told regarding its history. It's possible that Togakure Ryu was a modern consolidation of some techniques Takamatsu Sensei had been taught, or something along those lines. It's all very interesting, but I wish everything available would be submitted for proper authentication.
I agree. I think there is a part of the story that will never be told. Now the the schools have been separated and each Ryu Ha has its own grandmaster and new line of history we might get a few of these answers. Or they may die off with Hatsumi Sensei. We all just do the best with what we have been shown.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy Definitely. It'll be very interesting to see how the lineages are handled now that different minds are in charge of each piece. I think the only way for the Takamatsu-den to truly be respected outside of the organizations is more transparency and open scholarly inquiry into the individual lineages that aren't already verified. Most stuff if just a matter of historical interest anyway. I think anyone who has trained the techniques properly knows there's a lot of good material in there that's just as effective as any classical jujutsu and deserves to be studied. Just really need to shift away from excuses like "we don't spar because our techniques are too deadly" and black belts getting destroyed by even beginner-intermediate BJJ or full contact karate students. Side note: I think HEMA is awesome and I'd love to see a similar movement around historical Japanese weaponry. Full yoroi, blunted weapons, intelligent point system that includes grappling. Would be fun and way more realistic than kendo for understanding the weapons.
@@jeremyarroyo360 Mate, nothing works without full commitment of the spirit, involving your mind. You could have the most badass gun, if you don't know how to handle it, or if you're not ready to actually shoot an ennemy, it's useless as hell. Don't get me wrong, i'm no fan of crossed mystified fingers positions.. but i've been a victim in my youth and worked in security stuffs later. If you want to save lives, be ready to loose yours. Not WILLING to loose it, but ready to consider this into the balance. At that point, you will be able to better protect others and yourself. And just wishing to protect others is a hint that your life matters, so train well; this world needs much more people like you. So do it correctly ;)
The "Book of Ninja" is not Cummins' book it is Fujibayashi's and its true title is Bansenshukai. Cummins has done great and valid work in finding shinobi scrolls and setting a translator team to translate them, one may criticize however, how he changes these works' titles and places his name in the cover as if he is the author. It's the first time I see a member of a translator team do this. This does not take away however his contribution in finding these scrolls and getting them translated of course.
I was a Genbukan student for about 5 years. The politics was the worst. My dojo really didn't buy into them but, back then it really was impossible to avoid.
As a student we understand the political bullshit is never necessary. We just want to learn. The power play and the out dated social structure that make a few feel important just kill progression for everyone. These so called martial arts organizations are just Japanese businesses. And as a paying customer they need to respect everyone not just those who kiss ass and treat grandmasters like a god. I have been fortunate to have relationships with most of them. They are all very kind, great sense of humor and down to earth men. And I believe in my heart none of them have been changed or are driven by the money. But the senior people around the grandmasters are only driven by power, ego, control and money. They think they are representing the organizations best interest but in the end all they do is drive good people away. And that might be the most accurate thing I have ever said about the different organizations.
It happened to the Choy Lee Fut Kung Fu organization too, just recently. Grand Master Chen Yong Fa is really great, but the 2nd in charge guy, Mark Whelan, is very toxic. He’s destroying internal relationships, provoking schools around the world to leave the organization. My teacher left, actually. Sad but true.
When people say "I could probably have a couple of PhDs if I wanted to" they clearly have NO idea what goes into writing a PhD thesis. You can dive into something for a lifetime and still not understand it in much depth, if you do it like most people, without the rigor and thoroughness needed to write a PhD thesis.
I'm Bujinkan too, but let's cut the chase: let's perform a carbon 14 measurement on the oldest scrolls to end this discussion once and for all. All the rest is a conversation. Anthony Cummins has historical data, we need to prove our scrolls are as old as we say they are.
What if there are no ancient "scrolls" and all that hatsumi sensei has is information that was past down to takamatsu sensei from his teachers and these actual scrolls for some of these systems did not survive all the wars in japan, and just time it'self. But through modern manuals (not a scroll) and word of mouth this information was passed down and will continue to be passed down. Does a paper scroll make the information real or does the information have more value then a scroll. The real bottom line is these systems exist people know them, it has been cataloged studied and mastered and has been passed down. Now we have DVD's, digital sources and the cloud. I know that takamatsu sensei had the knowledge and the training, I know that hatsumi has the knowledge and the training, I know that it has been passed down to the current new sokes in some form of record. Digitally or in a paper manual that hatsumi sensei has created. Many grandmasters would update, change (develop) the scrolls and they would re-write them because they became hard to read or the paper deteriorated. So the history is there, the material is still alive and thousands of people are training in it. The material works... I have the information in my language as do many people around the world. I would not even want an old scroll I could not read. Today through the students thousands or written records exist. More now then ever in the last 1000 years. I think people need to drop the whole scroll thing and realize it's 2020 and modern knowledge is not saved for history on rolled up paper. What if these scrolls did exist, but no one knew how to do the material and knowledge and physical movements have been lost to history. Would we rather have ancient scrolls no one could do, or have the information written down in manuals and notes and passed down from word of mouth but really exist? Something was written down or I would not have everything that i have. How many people actual care about the physical paper scrolls? Most people do not even train in the Ryu Ha to start with. Those that do actually train just want the knowledge and the history any way they can get it. You would have more luck proving the Bible is the actual word of GOD, then ninjas in a secret system left scrolls behind with names that would get people killed if discovered. Watch Owls Castle about the genocide of the Iga Ninja by the Japanese government. If my family name was on a document proving my connection to something that would get me killed I would destroy it to. In a modern book there are more copies of the bansenshukai right now then ever existed in ancient times. Maybe 20/30 copies of the bansenshukai were created (handwritten). Now because of Anthony Cummins I beat thousands are in circulation. No one cares it was not written in a scroll or on ancient historical paper. We care that we can read it and learn. Lets just all train and enjoy the beauty of this art and enjoy life. Its to short to worry about something that was never meant for us to see anyway.
Cristian Sepúlveda I do more then just Budo, I teach traditional Bujutsu, ninjutsu tactics based off modern military aspects and modern survival based off technology not history. I was in the United States Marine Corps and understand what will work and what is just bullshit. Call it what ever you want. I what to understand what the ninja did in the past just for a historical starting point and for the sake of history. I carry a .45 not a katana, Ninpo is not done today like it was done 500 years ago. Who cares how it was done 500 years ago. What can you do right now with today’s weapons, todays technology, todays medicines. I’m not re-enacting ninjutsu like a guy running around Gettysburg in a blue jacket. Ninpo is alive and changing, adapting evolving. Train for todays world and stop living in the past. Let’s see where we can take this art and what we can make our future look like, This art belongs to us now, there are no set rules what we can and can not do with it. Stop putting everything in a box. Learn from the past but don’t stay there.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy Well...if you not know interesting in the past, you not maintain a "tradition", you make modern things (like how master Hatsumi do when he says after a body health problem change all the manner to teach his Bujinkan). You can make new things and called for his name "Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu", but a lot of shihan and dai shihan in the west sale this like NINJA...because NINJA name sales. And yes, I see how the Bujinkan take and use the katana, and it's obvious nobody in the school wants know how used... and if you know or have interest in the past, you know NINPO is only a technique, and not the form you use the word...what traditional bujutsu you teach???. By the way, militar of today, marines or other not are "ninjas", not are modern ninjas.
@@cristian.crixus The best thing about me is i could care less what other people say, never did. What ever I do, what ever you want to call it, what ever label you want to put on it I know it comes from a accurate source, I train hard to make sure what ever Im doing works and it helps people grow as human beings not just fighters but spiritual warriors. What I do has a 100% connection to history and the foundation is correct, but from there I allow it to grow and expand to be able to fit in TODAYS world with todays laws. I dont teach a street fight club, I teach survival. Mentally and Physically. I have put myself out there. No secrets, I have over 30 videos that show my students and myself. People can judge all they want. I know I help a lot of people and I will continue to help anyone who needs it and can see the value in what I do. I respect Hatsumi Sensei and I respect the history of the systems he has passed down. But that does not define who I am. Thats part of who I am. The Bujinkan is a VERY big organization you can find hard ass fights and social clubs that barely train. Its in that maturity and diversity that gives the Bujinkan it's strength and why its so big and international. Who i am and how I teach caters to a certain person, it's not for everyone. I just wish everyone stopped trying to prove that the Bujinkan or Hatsumi has no connection to historical records. It 1000% does. Either way what Hatsumi Sensei has done over his lifetime is incredible. Everybody needs to just train stay safe and be happy.
I would suggest that you read Mol Serge's book on Classical Fighting Arts of Japan. THere is a list of all Koryu schools. Only Tagaki Yoshin and Kukkishin are true Koryu. Takamatsu and Hatsumi are Menkyo Kaiden. There is no actual Soke. There are many branches.
The Ryuha that Hatsumi was passed menkyo has been adopted and perhaps taught differently to other schools. I've trained in the bujinkan and also took some classes of kukishin ryu outside of the bujinkan. Its taught differently especially the posture of receiving and delivering techniques from seiza or kneeling. .
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy I too understand, I started working on a Book (of everything ninpo/ryuha, etc.), but there is sooo much and never completed it. I started in the Bujinkan, went to the Genbukan and then back to the Bujinkan (for my own reasons). I am not saying now, but maybe when you decide, you could publish it, I know myself and others that train, know and understand what a valuable resource that information is.
Even if he publish it he must translate to English some basic words like tsuki that means strike,words that are Japanese terms and only Dojo ppl will understand or people from Japan. Everything in plain English or else not worth the trouble.
It’s not fake, it’s just the way it’s trained by the vast majority. Mega dans with mega waistlines flopping around, honestly they couldn’t fight out a paper bag! But they have the ego, the rank! They think they can! Takamatsu could fight like a demon! They’ve invested a tonne of time and money learning from his student! They can fight too then right?! There is NO WAY takamatsu or ANY students trained they way they do now, it’s laughable! Pathetic and embarrassing! The actual techniques are solid! You see them in the methodologies in other arts if you know what to look for! The ‘taijutsu’ They need to drop the ‘this isn’t a sport! It’s a deadly martial art!’ Crap! This snobby attitude the majority have! But unless your training to actually fight with someone not ‘playing along’ and you’re NOT! Your smoking and joking, taking a dive and back slapping! And you know it! you honestly won’t pull it out the hat in the moment! It’s not the karate kid! You will freeze, and you will get your head punched in! I’m sorry to be brutally honest! But facts are facts
The issue is, that likely those arts, have nothing to do with shinobies, not that those ats have been invented recently. Everubody at least have to aknowledge, those arts to have in their origins, pretty far amongst other yawara or jujutsu skills
i know Stephen K Hayes removed from the Buninkai records do you think he should be mentioned in the records since he was a big part it spreading here in the states?
But he did leave and do his own thing. If Tanemura, Manaka and Hayes would have shown loyalty. They would all three be legitimate grandmasters of a traditional Ryu Ha.
Sir, the scrolls Hatsumi has are not “hundreds of years old”. Takamatsu has recreated scrolls. The info is old because it is taken from bansenshukai and other research groups. Takamatsu was banned from Kukishin Ryu. He then appointed hisself the soke of the worlds oldest tradition. It is hard after 35 years or so to admit there is no proof. It is not so much that Takamatsu “invented” the techniques, as much as lifting the techniques and information from historical sources and compiled them into what you see a the Buj. Aside from the “samurai” traditions, Hatsumi offers absolutely nothing as evidence. If you want to take it on faith that Hatsumi happens to be the last soke of not one, but several of these traditions from different sources, then that is your prerogative to not require proof. These “wise” and “smart” people you speak of can accept no proof also, but don’t ask us to. The techniques themselves are not proof. If they are old, that has not been proven. It is a cult. It is a faith based religious worldview that is what is being peddled here. After 40 something years it is tough to come to terms with. But the money is collected so it continues. The sokes listed in these scrolls you speak of are literally comic book characters added in by Takamatsu to fill in the gaps. He thought they were real historical people. He formed all of this after being asked to leave Kukishin Ryu. His friend as a researcher. Hatsumi likely knows this by now, but the fantasy based story has gone to far by now, and foreigners continue to accept with no concrete proof. Going to Japan snd seeing those scrolls is not proof because they are not hundreds of years old. Techniques can be old, but that does not necessarily make the lineage old. The Kuki family has admitted that Takamatsu was asked to leave. There is not even any proof that Toda even existed. Blind faith is what is being asked here.
Interesting take on it. I have heard this side of the story for almost 40 years myself. One of the best days for me is when I stopped caring and said. Hell, I like the skills in the mats, I like the people I have met, and this art what ever it is has helped me in my life develop as a person. I’m not or will ever be the Soke or menkyo Kaiden holder of any of these systems. What ever it is I can make work, I understand it and enjoy practicing it. I’ve taken it all to a modern level and made it into something new anyway. Sucks if your right. But it will literally change nothing but Takamatsuden Sensei made it all up. Taught three incredible students in Hatsumi and Tanemura Sensei, who taught Manaka Sensei and Stephen Hayes who are my teachers. And today these interesting arts have new grandmasters who will keep these systems alive.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy well, I look at it like this: there is a subtle difference In saying that Takamatsu “made it up” vs Takamatsu took real historical information and repackaged it as the “9 Ryu”. It is basically real Samurai jujutsu as far as the hand to hand combat is concerned. It’s just the whole money making fantasy based other ideas that have exploited the eager foreigners who want it all to be true that is insulting. It is also possible that Takamatsu maybe just did this as a sort of tribute to the historical samurai Ryu he learned, as well as the “espionage comic books” and stories if you will that were popular in Japan in his youth. It is a proven fact that Takamatsu was banished from the Kuki family. That is why it is called Kuki Shin DEN Ryu in the Bujinkan, Rather than the original name of “Kuki Shin Ryu”. Subtle but important difference. Togakure Ryu is said the be the oldest and very origin of the art. What are the chances that Takamatsu would have inherited the last AND oldest original Ryu? And on top of that, we are supposed to believe that Takamatsu also inherited the “espionage” aspects of Kukishin Ryu as well, from a totally different source. Hatsumi met a researcher who was friends with Takamatsu. Yumio Nawa. He recommended Hatsumi go talk to Takamatsu about the espionage subject matter if you will, and the rest is history. It could well have been a re-recreation that got out of hand when word spread in the Japanese media. Remember, Hatsumi is literally an actor for TV and movies. It is not a far stretch to see that he is playing that part in real life because that is the position he found himself in, and by that time he was in too deep. Too much money and shame involved. Japanese are different than westerners in how they keep quite, especially when it comes to their teachers or masters. Takamatsu had no martial arts credentials after being banished from Kuki Shin Ryu. So he had to console himself and save face by coming up with all of these ideas from real historical sources, but simultaneously not being a real direct lineage that he was given. The Buj techniques are basically very similar to a number if other samurai Ryu, so they could have been learned from Kukishin Ryu, Takagi Yoshin Ryu, ect. It is the fabrication and misrepresentation that I find intolerable, not the techniques themselves. Notice that the researcher Numio Yawa never to my knowledge wrote a book about Takamatsu lineage, despite being personal friends with him. Yet Yumio Nawa writes many other books on this “espionage” history. Takamatsu compiled samurai jujitsu he learned with comic books and bansenshukai is what everything is pointing to. Hatsumi will even tell you the scrolls he has were not originals, but recreated by Takamatsu because the original scrolls were conveniently “lost in a fire”. This is kyo jitsu. Modern recreated compiling of historical info being sold as a historical handed down lineage in order to corner the market. Mostly to unsuspecting westerners. Who yes, can not have menkyo Kaiden because they are not Japanese. They have their own inner circle. But it is a mute point because the scrolls, ranks, dan ranks, go dan, “shidoshi” mean nothing really, because the lineage is not legit. This is why Hatsumi sells and gives these ranks so easily…to some. Follow the money.
Totally agree. There was a few moments when I thought hold up. Some of this history does not add up. I’m getting strange stories from all kinds of people. Then at a seminar I was teaching I heard a few testimonies on how meeting me and this art has changed there life for the better. For years I took it personal. Then I had a long conversation one night with a very high level teacher and he asked me if I could make the information work in real life. I said 100%. He asked if it has helped me as a person. I said yes. He asked if it has helped my students. I said yes. Do you understand how it all comes together as a collective system. I said yes. Then he surprised me and said how many of these Japanese grandmasters have ever knocked on your door and said I’m here to help you. I said never. He said then live your life. Keep doing what your doing and help as many people that want your help. Stay safe, happy and get as much as you can from this lifetime. From that moment on I stopped worrying about what people said or thought. I understand this art, enjoy it, and I have a community of people in my life that I love and respect. What more can you ask for.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy I ask for more demonstrable honesty regarding extraordinary claims. If Hatsumi does not know, he should say so. But he will not. To much money and pride are involved now. Even if they “help” people, the lies are still lies. I value honesty. To quote/paraphrase Larry David; “if I did believe those things, I wouldn’t tell anybody”.
Why was the majority of the Japanese written in kana? For example: battou is written as 抜刀 not ばっとう or hizaguruma (litterally knee wheel) is 膝車 and not ひざぐるま; it was even spelled wrong at 29:10 with が being used instead of ぐ - がるま is not a word.
Sadly as it is to say this: most of the hiragana comes from a romanji to hiragana free translator. When I wrote this I would make sure I had a romanji version I could read, then I would try to include hiragana for those that could not read English. I have not went back through the entire book and triple or even double checked the Romanji to Hiragana like I should have. But this book is just for me to teach from. I will never sell or mass produce the manual but as the years go by I continue to update, proof read and clarify my descriptions to make it easier to read. I’m sure if I went back and looked at all the hiragana or had an expert proof read it with a good understanding of Bujutsu or Ninpo they would make many changes. It was hard enough to put myself in a position to be able to see this information, learn it and be able to write it all down. Then go back and organize everything. Every time I open that manual on my computer I bet I fix or work on spelling or descriptions grammar and definitions. And have been doing that for over a decade. If you ever want a 300 page project let me know.
Respectfully, your points are off target. The argument isn’t that the hand to hand and weapons combat techniques were made up by Takamatsu, it’s that they aren’t Ninjutsu but are advertised and taught as such. Were the masters you mentioned teaching lock picking, burglary, pyrotechnics, surveillance, water crossing, climbing, deception, disguise, codes and secret writing, black magic, etc.? If not, they weren’t teaching Ninjutsu.
Believe it or not they did teach all that. Pick up Ninpo Secrets from Shoto Tanemura (Genbukan), Hatsumi Sensei, Stephen Hayes, Anthony Cummings all have published work with that material. In Japan not so much. But plenty of teachers around the world have taught all the aspects you mentioned. I’m talking more about the Ryu Ha and family scrolls. But that information is out there if you look for it.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy Some of that was taught in the past, but I don’t know of any Bujinkan students learning those skills today. Most, if not all, Bujinkan students are learning strictly hand to hand and weapons combat techniques. Physical combat is not Ninjutsu. It may have been something the Shinobi had learned in addition to Ninjutsu; however, Taijutsu is not Ninjutsu but it’s being falsely marketed as such.
Mr. Cummins seems to be using the weight of his degree and his claim to have trained in the Bujinkan to dissuade people from believing in it and to join him collectively in rejecting the organizations legitimacy. I seriously doubt that any modern degree would make one an authority over subjects of intense secrecy and taboo that have been protected and conveyed only by word of mouth and necessity. His other claim is also as stable as drenched tissue paper, that he has trained in the Bujinkan. He starts by claiming to have spent four years in Japan to attain his degree and that for one year he trained at the Hombu. He then details that he did not have the money to pay for lessons and could only attend on certain Sundays (offering to clean the dojo, which he claimed was 'dirty') when time permitted due to his academic pursuits. Giving him the benefit of the doubt we can assume that he may have attended less than twenty lessons and more likely a dozen or less. When observing he claimed that Hatsumi just nodded and said "Play" to everything that was done and then Cummins criticized the participants as though they would be totally ineffective. He showed off his own moves that he claimed Hatsumi then 'imitated'. The level of immaturity this man possesses is palpable. He brags about defending himself as a child by "Bashing someone's head into the sidewalk over and over again", claims that Hatsumi must have been learning from him (a TRUE warrior assuredly) by imitation, and insults both Takamatsu and Hatsumi in sophomoric fashion continuously. He is making a career out of this. Mr. Cummins doesn't understand the subtleties of the art and compares it to front facing competitive MMA, Karate, Judo practices and thus dubs modern Ninjutsu an ineffective self self defense art. He also, of course, promotes young westerners who he claims are 'real' Ninjutsu instructors for you to adopt and embrace while rejecting the established Japanese retainers. I'm sure, though, that someone using Ninjutsu to win in life, to better themselves, even to instruct others, can only benefit from the general populace's increasing disbelief.
Want to see the scroll, go to Japan. Find the Soke who was awarded the system from Hatsumi Sensei. Ask that new soke to pick one of his senior students for the last 20 years to be your training partner. Train with him for a few hours. They will beat it into you.
Doctor in Japan or Asia in general is often a lesser qualification than the west. Hatsumi was basically an osteopath/shiatsu accupressure practicioner not a orthopaedic doctor level like we know in western society. All respect to Hatsumi sensei but he only attained an arts level education in theatrical studies not a medical degree.
Hence, the fact that we were given stories, not facts, from the beginning. It's all pumped up so we would go across the sea to make them some money, sadly. Again, let's thank Sho Kosugi and his movies for that. I'm sure it would have been better to be a student of Sho Kosugi at that time in the 80's. I'm sure he would have taught you Karate, as it was, not trying to sell you ninjitsu. You can see his choreographies on youtube nowadays to attract people to his website.
@@Roguesanbo13 And I personally don´t understand why people simply don´t study acrobatics, juggling, Kung Fu, boxing/thaiboxing and Jujutsu/Jiujitsu plus some Catchwrestling and maybe some clinchfighting. That should make an allroundfighter. And if people absolutely want to take it to warfare-level then get militarytraining. If one is not a skilled fighter after having studied all that, then what can make one a skilled fighter? Besides all this emphasis on information instead of training is often a waste of time in my view. Like reading a gossip-magazine. You don´t really get wiser or more skillful after having read it. Better spend a day in Kindergarten to watch human behaviour. And excuse me for seing it that way.
When you see what "western doctors" accept to kill people by obeying financial lobbies, i clearly better like those "grannies receits" and wisdom sense far over their "science" . Hope you're not one of them ;)
I’m sure he hates it and thinks I’m drinking the bullshit koolaid. I actually respect the work Anthony Cummins does. I hope the new sokes of the individual schools really steps up and brings these school back to life. They may never be proved at the level AC respects or believes. But I have enough faith and belief for the both of us.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy I’m with you on that one. One man or even multiple people couldn’t bulllshit all of what the Bujinkan, Jinenkan, and Genbukan are. The material is way too detailed. It’s hard to explain but I’m saying it doesn’t have an...aura of being a fake. Then not to mention there’s katana training and also instruction on how to use knives and other ninja tools as well (btw I would love to see Bujinkan katana against HEMA). The ninja did have a fighting curriculum, even the “ninjas” of modern times like the Navy SEALs, the CIA, KGB, etc. were taught hand to hand combat. Especially, ESPECIALLY the last two because they are spies and dealt with espionage etc.. History says some samurai were ninja and some ninja were samurai. Hattori Hanzo was this. So it would make sense that the combat training ninjas used came from the samurai. Btw here’s an amazing article that affirms what you said in your video. I think this coupled with what you said is proof enough that the Ninja and samurai arts taught in the ninjutsu community are real. blog.bushinbooks.com/archives/4
@@adandyguyinspace5783 Holy sh@#, I actually went in and read that, good stuff ! I kind of think of all the bickering in the comments section like a train wreck...its awful but I can't look away haha. I train in this art and love it and am so fascinated with the historical aspects and want to be like Mr. Stevens here and dig deep while I'm alive , and if someone came along and said "2 of the 12 arts you study " (I do some others too) are bullshit , I would just shrug and think oh well, they are fun you are missing out. Oh and another thing, if you disagree and dislike then DON'T WATCH THESE VIDEOS , STUDY AT THESE DOJOS, OR OTHERWISE INVOLVE YOIRSELF WITH IT , YOU ARE A TROLL OTHERWISE !! Anyway good link !
for me childhood was rural Hawaii...80ties, I was obsessed with martial arts and ninjutsu was very popular. Later on I was involved with judo, boxing, kickboxing, wrestling and football. I founded one of America's first mixed martial arts clubs and a Ninjutsu group showed up to try their hand in the cage. They wore full ninja gi down to the tabi boots and weren't initially taken seriously even tho they were compeditive until their head instructor went 5 and 0 in American Shooto MMA competition. I trained with them for a few years and was granted a sensei rank in Taijutsu... many years later a guy showed up to my gym talking about Bujinkan and I was not familiar... after looking up Bujinkan online it's kind of difficult to accept because it seems so hokey. Fake no-touch Masters are very detrimental to the martial arts world and although Bujinkan doesn't seem to step over this most important line it still maintains a lot of theatrical techniques that in my opinion have no place in the hardcore world of ancient medieval Asian combat My attitude about Tai Jitsu is vale tudo striking with anything goes Judo style lapel work... I don't think ninjas bothered with much of the techniques they depict on the bujinkan videos as their motivation was simply in and out survival or Battlefield expedients! I have to assume the theatrics are simply an intelligent business attitude rather than a realistic take on Ancient medieval Asian combat or its modern day equivalent! Its hard enough to get people to take Ninjutsu seriously without kung fu movie choreography and dangerously hokey fake Aikido style no-touch throws!?!
The Bukinkan is a massive organization. Literally 100’s of thousands of people. At both ends of the spectrum, top and bottom there is a major difference between methods taught. At the top 10% you have a lot of current and X military and government people who are very dangerous. At the bottom of the spectrum it’s basically a ninja version of dungeons and dragons. Somewhere in the middle is a lot of people training hard and do not even consider themselves ninja, just martial artist like any other Ko Ryu system. I have seen big jujutsu organizations and the bottom 20% would never be a good fighter. The top 20% can kick ass. The rest just treading water. Like all organizations.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy i agree but i feel its quite theatrical from the top There were a lot of strange characters claiming ninjitsu origin back in the day and kung fu movie fight choreography was something they seem to all agree on
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy Wow! You said it! If I had a dime for every individual who does not understand that fighting competatively has to do with how one trains, I would be rich. Ditto for training realistically. Yes, in the top of the Booj I can vouch that there are some very dangerous people... My training in the other X kans is limited so I cannot vouch the same.
Great stuff, I am in the bujinkan and teach a small group in nz. The stuff works and I've used it, had students and teachers that have used it. Like you said, so many professional people (and I've met a few) wouldn't waste their time if it wasn't effective.
Hey Please explain to me how bujinkan worked in a real situation because it gets a lot of criticism. However here in the uk a lot of former military and special forces guys trained it especially in the 80's and they swear by it. I am interested in starting but still not sure.
You were duped my man. Hatsumi had the chance two show scrolls to the two most important organizations to prove authenticity and he failed that test. The Japanese ninja museum in Japan also does not except Bujinkan as authentic. You are in denial. It is dramatic I know.
You should not speak maybe he could not cause he could had taken a oath before he became soke and got instructions by sensai takamatsu. Did you ever think that?
One just has to analyze the contents to see it. There are three Samurai Bujutusu schools that claim a link to Iga Ninja, one is Gyokko Ryu, the other is Koto Ryu and the third is Togakure Ryu. These three schools feature taijutsu (unarmed combat), kenjutusu, bojutsu and so on. These three schools share a common root and technical elements from a Chinese internal style can be found in each of them including influences of the Chinese sword and an evolution of tiger, crane, dragon and leopard thrown into the mix. They show a technical evolution that could only have come about from a progressive integration over time of Chinese martial root with Japanese kenjutsu and tantojutsu, leading, in the case of Gyokko Ryu, to convergent patterns with some Panantukan's gunting and transitional postures that are consistent with knife use and also feature muscle and tendon attacks coming from the knife methods). A strong use of the knife is consistent with shinobi activities especially with disguise change that often precluded one from carrying swords. It is unlikely that a single man produced these three styles which are different from each other, though they share a same root. Togakure Ryu also includes actual full set of Shinobi no Jutsu methods, In-nin (stealth activity) and Yo-nin, as well as unorthodox fighting methods, escape methods and also possible applications to ambush methods, the shinobi set present in the Togakure Ryu system is consistent with known historical manuals from Iga. Secondly, the public affirmation of teaching a style that was practiced by a shinobi family and teaching shinobi no jutsu might actually downgrade one’s standing in the early twenty century Japan, Takamatsu would have little financial and social benefit, which is one of the quoted reasons for the argument that he invented these styles. The greater likelihood is that these styles are actual shinobi styles even if their statement as being spread much beyond the Toda family tradition may have been an “embellishment” for a better acceptance of a tainted position that is to state that one is teaching a shinobi tradition.
With all due respect to you Rob, the channel and the school and things you teach. Because you are one of the good ones. BUT: The problem with the Boojers and Takematsu isn't just their legitimacy, it is the fanatical dishonorable and toxic way so many of them act in an obvious effort to silence people, and corner the market on the term Ninja. So many boojers get bent out of shape when anyone outside of their cult dares to investigate, research, learn, reinvent, or otherwise revisit the concept of Ninja and keep it alive. But to be frank, you nor the boojers have PROOF, though your argument about spies is a good one, you do not have PROOF of anything. It is still He said, she Said. Without PROOF, how DARE the Booj Dox people and smear others? Why attack them for daring to explore these concepts or be inspired by them for modern interpretations? Why attack people at all? Why not just demonstrate the authenticity you have? Obviously, if a person impersonates Bujinkan or Takematsu's lineage, you have a right and duty to shit on them and expose them, etc. But You have assholes like Don Roley and his lapdogs like Dean Eichler (who isn't even a student FFS), who Dox people, and attack them PERSONALLY. His Ego is utterly toxic and disgusting to any sincere martial artist that isn't into nepotistic bullshit. My point here is that you have so many asshole boojers running their mouths and exposing frauds and doxing peolpe, yet are complete and utter hypocrites when put to the same tests for legitimacy and fraud... If Booj was so good, if Booj was the better way, if Booj wasn't so fucking insecure, they wouldn't need to attack people making videos out of their mom's basement every time they get an audience. I have personally seen them take down people, not simply disprove things or put out better info. But to literally attack people personally for their research or efforts. Be it Antony Cummins, or Dan Harmon, Frank Dux, Ashida Kim, or That Korean Ninja guy, or Anshu Christa or anyone that they don't like. Someone being a Fraud is bad enough, but isn't it enough to just be better? do you need to expose people for their private lives and things to take them down? Did Don Roley have to dox and slander people all the time? This is a sign of an insecure cult... and it's disgusting. I'm amazed Haatsumi allows it... Sorry, you have my respect as a student and teacher and all the rest, Rob. And I am sincerely sorry if my tone is disrespectful saying Booj instead of Bujinkan, but I ran away from everything Bujinkan because of the way so many people in the Booj act. And I am not alone... The Bujinkan borders on a fanatical cult and is filled with psychos, nepotistic narcists, and toxic weabos who think just speaking Japanese makes them better than anyone else at studying the subject. And this is a crying shame because there is enough historical value in Bujinkan that it should be carried into the future... But not by the narcissistic nepotistic assholes that represent it, at least here in the USA. You being one of the exceptions obviously. I am still liking your video, because it is a good one and you do good videos and work. But I have ZERO respect for the booj as a cult. Legitimate or not. Sorry, they made Ninjutsu a Toxic Cult, and I do I understand they want to preserve their traditions and be respected as the source they believe they are, but this is not how it's done.
i agree with what your saying. It is a shame that this organization and others with the material in the scrolls do not have the respect the schools deserve. No one asked and most do not care but while I'm alive I'm going to continue to just showcase what I have learned and help others who want to train. If in some way I can help people understand the value in these systems then I would be happy. What you call Boojers I have the explication of "Couch Ninja's" with a bag of Doritos and a energy drink who watch videos then sneak around in the backyard in the middle of the night with a tee-shirt wrapped around their face. I'm ready to drop the entire Ninja title and go with Bujutsu or Traditional Japanese Martial Arts. Does it have ties to historical ninjutsu 100% yes, does anyone do classical ninjutsu in this modern times NO. Its outdated, and in most cases what i learn in the USMC has more current value. But I still love it all.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy And I respect you for all that. Its a damn shame because I do indeed like the stuff the Kans did, they carried us forward in so many ways. But these assholes like roley and Eichler and so on have ruined what was beautiful by trying to own it and bully the community with Doxing. I do hope you continue to share your own work, even if it's outdated, it's fun. I practice HEMA now, I love it, but I grab my Shotgun long before I'd grab my Longsword. Keep doing your thing Brother, you are one of the good ones as a I said.
@@geronimosbones It seems every organization has it's bad apples that ruin the whole bunch. The egotists, the elitists and extremists, the know-it-alls, etc....It's a damn shame. I can't say anyone I've met in the places I've trained were like that and I am thankful for it. My buyus are all very nice people who support eachother and help eachother grow stronger. It pains me to think there are toxic assholes in bujinkan. Or any martial arts organizations for that matter. But unfortunately that's the case. I would say some might still do actual ninjutsu in terms of espionage and warfare and what have you, but probably keep it secret like a ninja should. Lol. I haven't met any weebs in bujinkan but I have met fellow otakus. Just big fans of anime. I am too. Anime is awesome and is a great source of inspiration. Albeit an exaggerated and inaccurate one, and some are hit or miss seeing as the genres and quality vary greatly, but hey, you gotta make the shows exciting somehow, don't ya? As far as dropping the title of "ninja," it's up to the individual. If you don't view yourself as a practitioner of ninjutsu then I would say don't use it. If you do, then use it. Err, but a ninja isn't supposed to let people know they're a ninja. :)
@@omnigod6435 , if you say that a Ninja is not supposed to tell anyone that they are Ninja, then for the record, please, everyone note: I am not Ninja!
Wow, thank you! This was absolutely perfectly represented. It's something that is not easy to understand unless you are taught. Even if it was written down, and some of it is, of course... there are things that you have to feel before you can grasp the concept.
Well done sir, hope to see you in Japan when this pandemic is over. Thank you for you efforts in putting this out. Japanese history is complex and takes great time and patience to connect everything. It’s always those who lack patience, mock or spread rumors about things they know nothing about.
All this and Antony Cummins, who cannot read or speak Japanese and relies on translations, will tell you that Takamatsu has made it all up. Yet we have people like you and Sean Askew who have spent a lifetime doing research.
I've been training in Ninjutsu off and on throughout my life, I'm currently dedicated hopefully permanently this time. I will admit, I had doubts about the historical accuracy etc, Takematsu, etc due to the constant "disproving " going around. I have come around to deciding I believe, I feel it in my training, I literally feel "legitimacy " in each technique. I stand with you. And side note, even IF there is some untruth or twisted truth, the martial arts are legit, and the people who supposedly invented them are absolute geniuses that deserve recognition! But as said, I choose to believe. I think the big question was and is always whether or not Ninjutsu is a "martial art " , where ninjas were real. I would say it's a martial way. Or a philosophy. But that's just me. Anyway, thank you for all you do.
He is desperate to find historical evidence beyond the 1500 in order to prove definitively that ninjutsu is just espionage, but there is still a lot of history that is not known about that period where there is not much written evidence.
@@rnin1754 In the end, does it really matter ? MMA was just created a few years ago, does that make it fake lol? Shotokan was invented in 1920's, doesn't mean it isn't real. Even if Takamatsu made some amalgamation of his own, what is the difference , it's rooted in historical fighting methods. Just my opinion . I like all martial arts and love history, but try not to lose sleep over any of it, love to talk about it that's about it.
As a new student of To Shin Do (modern ninjutsu) I couldn’t agree more! I had my doubts for years because of exactly what you said...but yo...when I found out how much combat my Sensei has ACTUALLY been in (includes military service in Iraq)....for him to fall back on Ninjutsu spoke to me...I’m blessed for a dojo that practices ToShinDo to be so close to me
@@TheMelloMunsta5 I started with Toshin do and thoroughly enjoyed it, coming from a Karate background it was very refreshingly different. I hope you stick with it, they tend to have great family like communities at those schools! I'm at an ex-Quest school part of the Discovery network now, but same atmosphere and I wouldn't trade it for anything . Same people too. A few schools from the New England area broke away for whatever reason and they've switched from toshindo to a modern approach to traditional ninjutsu, which sounds the same haha
So what I've learned from a historian a real historian who knows about this is that the original art of the Ninja was not boojin Khan or anything like that those didn't exist back in the day it was shinobi no jutsu and the reason why you can't find any evidence on this is not because it doesn't exist at all it's because the scrolls were burnt by historians and replaced so hatsumi probably has the replaced scrolls which are replaced by historians after they burnt the original ones
I challenge you to an exhibition match, where we shall demonstrate our feats of fisticuffsmanship until fistic amputation is visibly and satisfactorily achieved.
Great respect for your work Sensei, I only saw a proper umote gyako delivered and felt the spirit, to convince me of the true spirit of Nimpo Taijutsu, before I started my training. I always hungered for Henka, as a previous student as I believed Henka is the key to mastership. Unfortunately I never reached black belt, however, being poor and for a very long time only having had the ability to train was to be uke to my Sensei, and teaching his children classes, I have learned. Your knowledge is superior and very comprehensive. Very well done.
It would be the greatest collaboration if all the Grandmasters could train their respective menkiyo-kaiden Students in all their respective aspect, henka, and revive what they have been taught and or discovered through years of dedication.
Hehe. Ask China about soke Takamatsu 😁 here's a question, why have I never heard of you? I know the real masters. You're wearing a gi from Burma. I have 2 of the same gis. One black, one red. I've met Bud, I know Roy. Thank you for standing up for our art. There's plenty of jerks on the internet who wish to become self proclaimed and bash our art. The Mongolian Tiger is probably still being sought for violent arrest warrants in China even after passing away to the next life in peace. It's great to see you take up for us in a world of envy. What people hate about our art is their inability to incorporate it for profit. It's ours, not theirs. Money has no purpose. They don't comprehend, therefore they attempt to attack. I've said enough. Domo Ari Gato Gozai Mashita. Also, it's nice to meet you.
Still no hard evidence shown. Why not let expertice in Japan look at the evidence for Bujinkan authenticity in a historical aspect? Joined Bujinkan in the early 80’s and if I recall correctly Takamasu him self wrote down the scrolls from the okuden tradition, well then I’m sorry all Bujin’s, the art will be challaged for ever. There are a lot of strange things in Bujinkan over the years and not infrequently, information has changed over time or been polished to counter critics. Also Bujinkan does not accept internal criticism, why? What is there to hide? Still I have as you met a lot of the senior students over the years and also trained in Japan. I have had a great time whether the Bujinkan is authentic or not.
If you want to learn mondern "Ninjutsu" then you would probably be better off studying under a modern Japanese military commando and not someone that's looking at 500 year old scrolls.
I agree, that’s why we do that as well, just not Japanese but American Military USMC. We study the history to honor the past, but we don’t live in it. More to come on that latter.
Your just Jealous and want to be like him! That is why you talk shit punk! All can see, you have not put in the effort and it shows in your animosity. Does this Martial artist and his knowledge make you feel mall and insignificant...?
I dont think Hatsumi lied or made up what he teaches and maybe some does have historical roots, but it seems the ninja stuff is a recent invention. Also all his students are non Japanese. He gives out 15th degree blackbelts. That has got to be his own private joke. Like ok you want high rank I'll give you it, pay me. Is 15th degree high enough?
Hi, thanks for this video. Enjoyed all of em. I trained in Bujinkan Tengu Ryu in Belgium. Worked with Maria vandervliet, Sensei Steven K and Sensei Danny Roels. Many more have followed after them. Ninpo is a part of my life, attitude, posture, even walking is training. To bad i had to stop due to physical problems. Stay safe! No Ark taka no tsumi o kakuse.
Like you said before every time “I believe “ if you believe that not necessary means that it’s true. If you are happy doing that and It works for you, bless you in your path… for me it’s a different thing and I have to move on and do different things. Respect Osu.
I am afraid you make the fundamental mistake that ninjutsu is a martial art the takamatsu den arts are not fake but are they ninjutsu? I have yet to see any takamatsu den student display even a basic level of skill taken from a ninjutsu scroll great jujitsu kenjutsu yes but ask one to make a water proof torch start a fire pick a lock etc then no these are just the basics from the basenshukai let alone the really cool stuff shinobi jutsu is not bujutsu it was taught in a different classroom the fact that iga ryu was a ninja school at this point is laughable every ryu in Japan had a shinobi school try katori or yagyu for instance
I agree with some of what you say. I will just add that I am a veteran of the USMC. So I honor tradition and train in many older forms of training to see the root or the fundamental aspects. But some stuff is just simply out dated. A water proof touch can be bought at Walmart, studying the distance between fires to keep your moat light up at night and training your guards to keep a constant rotation so no gaps can be entered is done with sensors and night vision. Colored rock formations is now communicated with text messages. Yes I still teach colored rice and rock formations and stealth and camouflage, breaking and entering but we have to understand today’s world. Ninpo is alive, adapting. I don’t need to train horses and build floating devices out of animal skins. I practice combat driving skills with a truck or SUV and buy very good blow up kayak. I teach theory and tradition so we understand the past, but I look to the future and beyond to see what I can use to survive in today’s world with today’s laws. Is it ninjutsu the way it was done 600 years ago. No, why because it will not work. Today’s ninjas are navy seals. I’m now a civilian, so I do what I can with ancient traditions because it’s fun for me, I train in modern weapons because that’s what I need to do to survive. Do I work on my ground game and jujutsu, he’ll yeah, why because I have to. Do I go out to the range and keep my firearms skills fresh he’ll yeah. DoI practice my stealth and tracking skills, yes because I hunt. Today Ninjutsu is a game for some, a fantasy for others. For me and my students we balance between keeping some traditions alive for the sake of history and ignoring Japan and some out dated ancient almost re-enactments and replace them with modern military tactics. Is it traditional or historical, yes but mainly no. Will it keep me alive today. 100% yes. Do I enjoy it yes. And I hope I never need to use it.
A man after my own heart it does get me why students do not apply teachings from the basenshukai etc today not many people realise there are two shinobi scenes the x kans those of us in the pen testing security auditing community the basenshukai is still my base in principle I broke into my local supermarket with a vape pen and they paid me very welll for it they amended their security protocols so I got in using a balloon 😈 try teaching students to bypass hotel dates and offer there services to hotels travel the world selling decent safes a college of mine came to shinobi arts through traditional karate he now has a helicopter in his back garden ! Ninpo learnt well is amazing
Hotel safes not dates !writing on a tablet with no glasses on ....I started with Pete king about 85 if you were wondering stopped 2006 with the genbukan now try to live the life for real get lockpiking 😊
I trained in the Budjinkan and asked what are we learning are the other schools samurai combat schools they dont like you asking all ya can find out is through the Budjinkan and you can not find any Soke going back from Togakure Ryu etc weapon training etc is there but why can you not find any proof
The proof is in the training. Learning the actual art from a teacher is how you get the information and the "knowledge" and skill is the proof. Not a piece of paper, its the knowledge.
Is this not a rather dumb question? Why can't you find proof of what the CIA did or is doing? How about 500 years from now? Will you be finding PROOF of what they did?
United States Ninpo Academy if skill is the proof - fight someone who is a martial artist, and do so openly.......you know...someone who won’t stand still to be hit or fail to defend himself.
i dont care what people say people try to say that Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu and ninpo is fake but it all what they think i still study it because let try you tell there not happy in it they spreading disinfo they don't to know it so people lie shinobi no mono is a spy that study and train it shinobi no jutsu that also part samurai class war fair i respect that art of ninjutsu an void people negative people because they not happy with life so try bring people down thumb up on your video
I say not. The Bujinkan is being progressively 'watered down' from the 33rd master onwards. The current instructional video from shihan are pathetic. There is no technique and the students are falling over at the first suggestion they should. Every effective martial art is under threat. I would like to see more rogue dojo's concentrating on the core of the Bujinkan. This recent itteration is forgetting the arts routes. SORT IT OUT!
Good schools exist but we are in basements and garages and have a small amount of students over many years. Agreed though, there is zero quality control and that's an issue. Doubt it will ever be addressed. It is a runaway train at this point.
I've seen "no quality control" and I've seen "micro-management and complete control". Both seem very unhealthy to me. Does anyone do something in the middle?
How are there scrolls and hundred-year-old documents if the only way to learn was from the masters themselves. If they write them on a scroll or parchment, then there is a record and it's no different than any other martial art style in history.
I agree. No different then any other traditional system that is hundreds of years old. If you can train from someone who has or has been taught the material. It’s exactly the same as hundreds of other systems.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy All other systems have documented history or techniques. To say you cant find documented techniques or history because its secrete and the only way to learn is from the masters themselves is false. There are documented histories and techniques that had been written and passed down. There is truth on both sides. The sides that claim its secrete and passed down from families has a history to support it. Its also true to claim that there is documents and teachings that can be found. I'm simply stating that the claim of no writings or documentation can be found even if you look because it's so secrete is just not accurate. There is documentation. Now I think some folks that claim things without any historical proof may have a hard time. But even early Ninjutsu took teachings from other styles and adapted it to their objectives.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy Please understand im not talking ill of Ninpo or the other Ninjitsu forms. I think they are all great and can teach history, self-defense, physical fitness, ect. Im just making the point that there IS lots of documentation of the style and history.
My understanding is that 7 of the 9 are legitimate. The 3 listed as "ninjutsu" though are questionable. I mean no disrespect either. I did actually like shinden fudo Ryu myself. And I do think there is wisdom in the techniques. But at the very least, few people teach properly.
@@davecurtis6930 growing up Bruce Lee was probably my biggest Idol . Now in my 40's I have discovered many others that are just as amazing. Donn Draeger , Danny Inosanto Wich was a student of Bruce Lee and still teaches Jeet Kun Do and master at Phillipino martial arts . Ah Bruce Jutnich a grand master of Kosho Ryu . And of Course so many from the Okinawan masters . So many legends . From so many different combative arts .Another amazing guy is Hunter Armstrong who has some very informative videos on Hoplology or study of combative behaviors From all over the world . He studied under Donn Draeger .
Hello my name is Richard Martinez. About 16 yrs ago I attended the ryu shinkan here in denver. The instructor was Larry Tatum. He was with bujikan, he has since retired. I never actually learned any ninpo. He taught a separate lineage yoshin ryu jujutsu. I been wanting return. Mr. Tatum's student still teach. I'm confused . I found another school here in denver ten chi wa taijutsu. Sensei mark Hansen, I believe it is genbukan. I asking which would be better in your opinion. Lary Tatum says he is only person teaching this lineage of yoshin ryu jujutsu, he said it is a complete ko ryu system with atemi, throws locks weapons grappling strategy, he said it is an aggressive style, and if had focus on multiple opponents. The ten chi wa, I believe is genbukan ninpo taijutsu. I cant do both.
"Could've had two PhDs.." - Maybe just learn Japanese and do some actual research. "There's no way Takamatsu sensei made it up" - Welp, case closed there huh. If you say so. "If it was written down, it was written down, learned, studied and then the records destroyed" - Uh ok magical all knowing man who mysteriously 'knows' what happened centuries ago sans proof. Bald assertions, random claims.. "I know" ... "I spent time in the dojos" .. lol, but never learned Japanese, can't read or communicate with genuine scholars. "These scrolls are legitimate, these scrolls go back hundreds of years" - then why have none of the koryu associations accepted Mr Hatsumi and his group? Why did the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai refuse his request to join? "Dr Hatsumi - a doctor.. very smart." Uh no, he is not an MD. Igaroo and Kogaroo.. distant cousins of the Kangaroo. "It's not in a history book... now lets look at my history book". Reproducing the information published by the X-kan teachers does nothing to validate the history of your arts. You claim 'it's not in a history book', but the reality is the Japanese made notes of everything. Indeed, you contradict yourself by claiming initially that you've "been to Japan and seen the hundreds-of-years-old scrolls", then later claim that nothing ninjutsu was ever written down. Ultimately your theories and claims are nebulous and not actually based in any evidence. If Mr Hatsumi had evidence supporting his claims he (and you, his students) would be an accepted part of the koryu community. He is not.
I am very curious as to why since you are obviously European that you chose an art of Asian background? Are there no European arts that resemble the art of the Shinobi. Pride is definitely a problem it seems for many of our European warriors.
I make it my own. It may have come from Japan, but I do things very much like a modern American warrior. I’m not an American playing dress up ninja. Most of what we do looks more like a modern soldier then a Japanese shinobi.
Haven't even watched the video yet, but the title makes me want to comment first. I am very sure that in today's world and especially on the internet the word FAKE is tossed about all the time. And in truth, for the most part, what it means, at least on the internet, is your ideas are not like mine so they are fake or wrong. So when I see the word fake with martial arts I either picture Frank Dux or someone who just doesn't like the style or it isn't like theirs our maybe even a direct competitor to theirs. Fake, like everything else is subjective and interpretational. In short it is nothing more than an opinion, even when it comes to crackpots like Dux, Ashida Kim and the like.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Excellent work of truth! For those of us who have trained for as long as we have and seen so many people come and go, we understand that it is not about the art, it's about the integrity of the person's heart that usually causes hateful disillusionment. And yeah, sometimes folks come across bad teachers and "Gold Dragons" (Not Golden)... for those people; I am deeply sorry the greed that exists in some people's hearts. That certainly isn't the only reason why some people leave, yet difference of perspective is NOT the same as totally disavowing the existence of an art.
I have trained in yoshin ryu, ryo shinto ryu and bujinkan. 3 different schools with 3 different lineages and the technics are very similar. That's all the proof I need.
I like the movie about him. I think in his day he was a tough guy. But as far as his connection to Ninpo or Ninjutsu I’m sticking with I really like the movie bloodsport.
A thought that has been om my mind for some time... Haters has been trying to acuse Bujinkan for making up everything about ninjutsu. My question then is if a person or a group of persons get a good idea that is so good that it can bring value to the World, should they then stop their efforts in making the idea become reality, allthough the idea meets strong opposition from some people?
Nice video but, if you try your style against a Thai fighter you will get destroyed. Thai fighters never lost many many years except once with a lucky shot in from a karate master, even Bruce Lee knew that. In reality all those soke they just sold an art with nice marketing.
Your probably right, in a ring with a professional tai fighter with his rules I would have a disadvantage. Especially now in my 50’s. But if the Tai Fighter played by his rules in my world. I might start off with a prostitute with a ton of diseases just to wear him down some, find some people to poison his food, then show the doctor report with the sexual diseases to his girlfriend or wife to mess up his personal life some. Then spread rumors I was going to throw the fight on purpose to win a large bet against myself, while everyone was trying to get my little Tai fighter healthy from the medications from my paid lady friend, and try to get him strong from the food poison, I’d also have someone else spread rumors he got the sexual diseases from a male lover while doing drugs together. With his health a mess, his body in shambles, his personal life in a very low place, everyone around him trying to figure out what’s going on, I would send him “hope you get well soon” cards. Day of the fight they find him dead behind a gay bar from a drug overdose. I would tell the media it was a terrible waste of true potential and talent, it was a terrible loss, and I would pray for his family.
I dunno..i think its all fairly simple .all the figjting arts in in bujinkan and genbukan,and others..are samurai fighting arts..all the other stuff . deception,poisens etc, basically all the agent commando stuff..would be classed as nin-jutsu...
To say that Takamatsu would have created Ninjutsu is like saying that John Williams made up European music history and music to sell records. One can see similarities between Bujinkan and old Chinese styles. Thinking of wall paintings, because some of the Chinese styles have broken lines. That the Bujinkan wouldn't work is also a hell of a joke. Bodyguards use it, the military, the police, and so on. Naturally, one can find those who use other styles, but that it exists is a testament to the Bujinkan's effectiveness. Not even Bruce Lee was able to create such an extensive style. Not to disparage Bruce Lee, but his style is simpler, in the sense that there aren't as many techniques.
Nobody wins in this debate the densho is real yes but they talking about the fact of can you use what you learned from bujinkan in a real fight? No it won’t work. I train in bujinkan for a long time. And I trained with two who brought the ninjutsu to USA. That branch was called Robert Bussey warrior international and was the only branch in the world using reality base fighting methods, that you can use to defend yourself in a real situation not bujinkan. That’s why the organization move away from bujinkan. That’s why some people are calling bujinkan a tourist trap. Sometimes people forget things.
I agree Robert Bussey took the training and Americanized it, he made it work with almost a military approach. I started training in 1985 with Ninpo so I remember him well. The material in the Bujinkan 100% works. The knowledge of the Ryu Ha are solid and work. It’s all application. I have used the material in real life many times. So have thousands of other people world wide. I agree most do not train and when I say train I mean train, not sit in a dojo or henka the shit out of stuff. People who want real skill sets make the material work, because that is who they are. Warriors and survivors. Tons of people are happy learning angles, distance, balance, flow and everything the Bujinkan has become. Personally we train to make our bodies be able to apply the knowledge. We spar, pressure test and train with many jujutsu schools and make sure we keep ourselves honest. I’m no longer emotionally attached to the organizations, out dated so called ninjutsu historic re-enactments. So I agree and disagree with you, but 100% understand your reasoning. It’s just hard to lump everyone into one box, just because they have an affiliation with an organization. Watch more of our videos. That’s all I can do is show how we think, train and apply this knowledge.
It doesn't mater . In this day and age you can be anything you wanna be .If anyone wants to be a ninja then it's up to them . Why spoil people's dreams .My mates 5 year old wanted to be a dinosaur so he got him a costume and he's happy . So that's all that matters . As long as the person is happy .
you all been bamboozled by takumatsu, , if them scrolls where real then prove it get it tested, word of mouth is just "THAT" word of mouth, until the soke gets them tested (that will never happen cough cough), , and his taijutsu style alone did not exist before the 1800s , there is no info anywhere in historic records to show togakure ryu or the other 3 ninjutsu schools as being historic ether it's really not looking good for you guys, i really feel sad for bujinkan members i really do
Let’s say your right. I believe the information in these scrolls are real. I have done them, felt the pain having them done to me. And have trained with many of the students of Takamatsu Sensei. I’m never going to be anything other then a teacher of the information to help people or beat people up with the information. I do not need any more proof then the men who have taught me. I believe in them. I know the material works, it has improved my life and I have helped dozens of other people with the knowledge. What else can you ask for as an American studying a Japanese Art?
I just stopped watching this in 4 minutes. Instead of talking about the realities of the art, regardless of age, he proceeded in letting you know about his years of Ninjitsu training (Not to mention that Anthony C. practiced the same art and experienced disillusion in practicality). That, versus a real university education that Anthony C. has making him a skillful researcher. Anthony C. has spent enough of his time looking through actual scrolls and debunking myth. Takamatsu was a martial arts "master", no doubt, but what Anthony C. is trying to say is that their martial arts skills in not an actual Ninja Art, per se. Historically, these "ninjas" picked up martial skills here and there and would pass these knowledge to others. It would have been mostly jujutsu and sword arts. Just like Hollywood make you think that body-guarding is about kicking ass, not minding about the client being on his own, I'm sure the "ninja" had no time to spend on knowing a thousand moves to fight anyone. Example, for a "ninja" to have learned BJJ would have been troublesome. Did he really wanted to go to the ground, when he really needed to flee. In a quick situation, you just need to know where to hit, and where to hit FAST. Then you get out of town. No need for hand to hand combat mastery. Soldiers learn these skills a bit more now a days, but rely on their weapons mainly....and skills of escape and evasion. Anyway, they should attach the actual names of whatever art they practice, example...Bujinkan, or whatever,, but not the name Ninja to it. The 70's and 80's are part of history now. Takamatsu and Hatsumi obviously saw the $$$$ opportunity, thanks to Sho Kosugi and his Ninja Movies. Even in Japan the "ninja" stories are treated more like reading about Batman....who is compared to a Ninja......comically. I am one that was all about "ninjas" in the 80's. One experience in 1988 made me question the effectiveness of this art. I met a black belt, who had pictures of himself with Stephen Hayes and others, I showed up to his house after being invited for practice. There was another guy (student) there to practice. After a warm up, we went to his backyard to do rolls, jump a fence, then rolling, and do some stuff that you see in magazines. Then we started practicing some hand to hand techniques that were pretty interesting and exiting, for being the first time experiencing this. After that, I asked them if we were sparring. I was only a red belt with a black stripe in ITF Tae Kwon Do at that time, also a big fan of Bruce Lee, which add to the energy you bring to the whole thing.....curiously enough. Not sure if you will understand. He said Ok. I owned him. To the point that his student asked me about what I did for martial arts and asked me if I could train him. I have nothing to gain with this story. So believe it or not, I'm sure many have been through that situation. Many people that take Bujinkan, had been practicing other arts, so it is not just plain "ninjitsu" that is expressed through their fighting skills. Anthony C. is a legit martial artist and fully educated to present this. The big talker here is one of those guys that had the inspiration of this fantasy, like we all did once, but never came down from the cloud. I want any of his students fo challenge any Gracie, Machado or the likes. It would be a rude awakening. Historically, it doesn't matter how old it is, but practice that as it may be, as some rudimentary style of Japanese martial art frozen in the past. If you want some good hand to hand combat training, go to Okinawa and train with one of those masters. If you are the type that like hitting of kicking, If your thing is Japanese culture. If not there is Thai Boxing and others. I am 51 and had practiced several arts, and currently taking BJJ. I just started in 2019 and regretted not adding it to my skills years ago. If I thought I could use "Bujinkan" in real combat, I would have proceeded to study it. Funny, people talk about Aikido, and I think Aikido is very useful as a skill when attacked by several people at a time. Their circular motion is very useful, and some other techniques. As any martial art, ........one style is not the answer. You should research how they utilize distance, movement, etc......striking is not the most important. Anyone can hit or kick. Get a football player mad and after you, and test your skills against that. It hurts that after "so" many years of practicing something, you suddenly realize that you may not make the money you thought you would make as your art is discredited as what you call it to be. Nothing wrong with just tagging the name of the original school name without utilizing the word Ninja to encapsule its essence. By the way, since I am interested in the historical value of what the "ninja" were, I bought all of Anthony's books. I still keep my Hatsumi and Hayes books, but more like a treasured memory from the 80's personally. Not taking from the martial value of Hatsumi or Hayes. I'm sure they are fine martial artists, but when it comes to real, verified history about the "ninja", ....well, they still have much to prove yet.
This is one vid to much bujinkan is real because you can see under Togakure ryu sokes That takamatsu was trained by Toda Shinryuken Masamitsu a great person from the toad family witch had the Togakure ryu for 9 generations in the ryu are Togakure-ryū ninpō Gyokko-ryū koshi jutsu Kukishinden-ryū happōhikenjutsu Shinden Fudo-ryū daken taijutsu Gyokushin-ryū ninpō Koto-ryū koppō jutsu Takagi-yoshin-ryū jutaijutsu Gikan-ryū koppō jutsu Kumogakure-ryū ninpō Pleas don’t do the wrong trust your Heat and dont trust people who says the wrong...Pleas 🙏
I believe that many people who do not know how sciences that study the past such as history and archaeology work, do not understand how academics in these fields see the past. It is widely accepted by these scholars (not all of them of course) that the past is a place that we can never get to know fully. Even the things we tend to think that we know about the past must be examined again and again because they might be a perception of the past that is different from the truth or only a small part of the whole picture. There are a lot of things that are lost throughout history that perhaps we will never get the chance to learn about. To be fair there are also academics who tend to follow this way of thinking. This "I read so I know stuff" way of thinking. But even when following the academic way of thinking, in this specific scenario there is a "problem". Martial arts are not an academic field. You can maybe learn things about martial arts from specific books, but none of those is your true teacher. In my opinion it is an experience outside the pages of a book or the usual online "wars" about something being fake or real. Also something that a lot of people do not understand sometimes is that not everything has to be about effectiveness in a real situation. Not everything has to be about a violent encounter. Some people do martial arts just because they enjoy it. Maybe after a difficult day at work is what they chose to relax and calm their mind. Maybe some people don't need to fight in a cage to be fierce warriors in their everyday lives. I have been a bujinkan student for some years and while at the beginning I was confused and I was not sure what I was doing, with time it became an experience so personal that words will turn it into something poor. I believe dr Hatsumi said it in the best way possible. " What I want you to do is just take it as it is. Don't think too much. If you get involved with thinking about it, the whole thing gets lost or loses its purity. Don't think during practice - DO! The more you think, the further from the truth of budo you get: Budo is NOT an academic subject!"
All the scrolls to the togakure ryuu is inside the school ? Bugikan is made up by hatsumi san. it was passed down by word of mouth ? That's not good enough for me. It's only one hundred years old. Hatsumi's father was a judoka. That's why hatsumi studied judo . notice the word con, at the end of the word.? I also want to let you know that the koka ryu system is not dead!! I am koka ryu the only true art because iga was a samurai strong hold. No ninja . just samurai ! That's what takamatsu was teaching judo/jujitsu. all your techniques are from karate/chunfa. which in my opinion is also a good art. all your grand masters are not real. The ryu was passed down by takamatsus teacher .when it was known as the kamakure shoganite school of exlance. The samurai started. Up in 6 century and their swords weren't curved they where straight blades. learn your history people? Don't listen to these geomancers. and fakes , and mcdojo's.all there teaching is karate and some samakama crap. because they don't know the truth ? or what transpired between takamatsu and his teacher many decades ago??
The modern connotation of "fake" seems to be measured by what wins at competitions where rules are set to prevent lethality while drawing the most revenue by entertainment. When we look at any practice by seeing it's "need" at the time it was developed , we can see where the merits of effectiveness are. Adaptation is the ultimate skill that keeps any species alive. Embracing this above all preservations is to embrace the tradition of life itself. Necessity is the mother of invention. If I can offer any wisdom I've come to understanding about this stuff, this is of most importance.
I've been in martial arts 25 year's, I hold official grades in karate, taekwondo and kickboxing and have trained a few other styles without grading, there was a bujinkan club near me but I never got round to attending a class, now for me the reason's the bujinkkan styles are becoming the joke of the Internet are very obvious, now I can quite happily accept the information, is genuine historical etc...etc.. ( couldn't careless about lineage or tradition, I care about effectivness).I mean the information in aikido is legitimate but it's not being trained effectively, in my opinion bujinkan is the same, combine that with no free sparring, 15 degree blackbelt's, frauds like ashida kim and the Hollywood ninja popularisation oh an as well as the footage of 15 dan ninjutsu guy sparring a brown belt in something with the bokkon and getting beat, is it really all that surprising???
Excellent video and great information. I trained for 10 years in the Bujinkan in the 80's and 90's. I think the bad rap comes from alot of what you talk about. Primarily that there is no evidence that Toda Sensei existed. Nothing written, no pictures, etc. So you are taking the word of Takamatsu and Hatsumi. Second, and more importantly is the Ninja claim itself. Not that the arts that comprise the Bujinkan are fake. As you say yourself, you have not trained in Kumogakure or Gyokushin ryu. From my understanding, very little if anything has ever been taught from these schools. And there really isn't much from Togakure taught either. The bulk of the curriculum in bujinkan comes from non ninja schools like Kukishin, Takagi Yoshin Ryu and Shinden Fudo Ryu. in other words, there are no real modern ninjas. you have studied and learned samurai and other japanese jujutsu traditions.
Righteous Shadows Dojo it’s nice to see that the same lines are being used today as was in the 80’s. However, this entire video is devoted to history and authenticity of the lineage so I’m sorry but “shut up and train”;doesn’t cut it. Can you address my comments or not?
Gyokko Ryu and Koto Ryu are if not ninja ryu at least the brother arts of the ninja ryus. There is good evidence that the masters of these two ryus at LEAST trained with main stream Ninja school masters. In the end does it really matter? What saves your life it was matters and I know through personal experience on the street that this works.
@@DouglasEKnappMSAOM I agree. In the end, if you enjoy the art and believe it works, more power to you. that's most important. I think the criticism Hatsumi receives mostly is that built an organization based on being the "the last ninja school" and got very rich while not having any evidence of its authenticity. Kumogakure and Gyokushin Ryu's have never been publicly taught. And only very little and frankly archaic material has been shown from Togakure Ryu. Certainly not enough where anyone today can claim they are learning Ninjutsu.
If they lied to you how come you and your chain of teachers and students know so many techniques not found in any other jujutsu or Japanese combat system? Are they gonna say takamatsu himself invented hundred of years of combat development? Same happened in okinawan karate, there's no book today to explain ancient techniques applictions, that's the price of secrecy!!! It's not hard to understand the lack of history when these masters had the need of secrecy, it meant life or death!!!!!! Man I wish you had that book for sale?!!
"Dr. Hatsumi was asked many years ago to provide documentation of some of his lineage for admittance to the Kobudo Shinkokai, perhaps the most reliable of the major organizations of traditional Japanese martial arts, and according to Donn Draeger, in a conversation to me, he was not able to provide documentation which proved his lineage to their satisfaction. Thus, there are uncertain areas in Dr. Hatsumi's lineage."
Exactly what a Ninja would say. If you have documentation from a Ninja clan, then it wasn't Ninjutsu. Documentation proves there is NO Ninjutsu in the document.
@@DanielleSainte-Marie Shoninki and Bansenshukai....
In Natori Ryu, they were samurai or ashigaru scouts... so think Marine Recon.
@@DanielleSainte-Marieyou can't tell fools anything. This clown is delusional.
KUDEN....
Modern Togakure-ryu and various historical claims are taught by Masaaki Hatsumi (Takamatsu's successor) and the Bujinkan organization. Criticism regarding the historical accuracy of the Bujinkan's claims of lineage have arisen from several issues of the Bugei Ryūha Daijiten:
The 1978 version of the Bugei Ryūha Daijiten states that Takamatsu's Togakure-ryu "genealogy includes embellishments by referring to data and kuden about persons whose existence is based on written materials and traditions in order to appear older than it actually is."[38]
The 1969 version of the Bugei Ryūha Daijiten states that Takamatsu's Togakure-ryu "is a genealogy newly put together by Takamatsu Toshitsugu, who made use of (took advantage of) the popularity of written materials on ninjutsu after the Taishō era" and that "there are many points where it has added embellishments, it has made people whose real existence is based on written records older than is actually the case, and so it is a product of very considerable labor".[39]
The 1963 version of the Bugei Ryūha Daijiten states of Takamatsu's Togakure-ryu "this genealogy refers to various written records and oral transmissions and there are many points/places where embellishments have been added and people appearing in the genealogy are also made older than they actually are".[40]
I have studied some Bujinkan (trained with Jack Hoban, a very bad experience) and met several black belts in the system, as well as studied several other martial arts and lived in Japan for 2 years. Personally, the issue I take with the Takamatsu-den is mostly how they are trained, rather than the content. There's a lot of delusional people out there with high belt ranks that would be unable to apply 90% of what they believe they have learned against a fully resisting opponent, let alone a skilled fighter.
Though I think the real criticism of the Bujinkan from a scholarly perspective is mostly of the self-proclaimed ninjutsu schools. I believe all of the samurai lineages were verified through historical research by the organization in Japan that handles such matters (and takes it extremely seriously) whereas Hatsumi Sensei simply wouldn't submit the materials required to prove the authenticity of the lineage. I personally don't believe it's all fake, but I do think there's something the public and even the students aren't being told regarding its history. It's possible that Togakure Ryu was a modern consolidation of some techniques Takamatsu Sensei had been taught, or something along those lines. It's all very interesting, but I wish everything available would be submitted for proper authentication.
I agree. I think there is a part of the story that will never be told. Now the the schools have been separated and each Ryu Ha has its own grandmaster and new line of history we might get a few of these answers. Or they may die off with Hatsumi Sensei. We all just do the best with what we have been shown.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy Definitely. It'll be very interesting to see how the lineages are handled now that different minds are in charge of each piece. I think the only way for the Takamatsu-den to truly be respected outside of the organizations is more transparency and open scholarly inquiry into the individual lineages that aren't already verified. Most stuff if just a matter of historical interest anyway. I think anyone who has trained the techniques properly knows there's a lot of good material in there that's just as effective as any classical jujutsu and deserves to be studied. Just really need to shift away from excuses like "we don't spar because our techniques are too deadly" and black belts getting destroyed by even beginner-intermediate BJJ or full contact karate students.
Side note: I think HEMA is awesome and I'd love to see a similar movement around historical Japanese weaponry. Full yoroi, blunted weapons, intelligent point system that includes grappling. Would be fun and way more realistic than kendo for understanding the weapons.
The import thing at the end of the day is the traing does it work in life and death situations if your life or the ones your protecting.
Togakure is a collection of real techniques with an embellished back story.
@@jeremyarroyo360 Mate, nothing works without full commitment of the spirit, involving your mind. You could have the most badass gun, if you don't know how to handle it, or if you're not ready to actually shoot an ennemy, it's useless as hell.
Don't get me wrong, i'm no fan of crossed mystified fingers positions.. but i've been a victim in my youth and worked in security stuffs later. If you want to save lives, be ready to loose yours. Not WILLING to loose it, but ready to consider this into the balance. At that point, you will be able to better protect others and yourself. And just wishing to protect others is a hint that your life matters, so train well; this world needs much more people like you. So do it correctly ;)
I like how that Antony Cummins reference was shown but in the background he has Antony Cummins Book of the Ninja right behind him on his bookshelf.
Your very observant 🎉
The "Book of Ninja" is not Cummins' book it is Fujibayashi's and its true title is Bansenshukai. Cummins has done great and valid work in finding shinobi scrolls and setting a translator team to translate them, one may criticize however, how he changes these works' titles and places his name in the cover as if he is the author. It's the first time I see a member of a translator team do this. This does not take away however his contribution in finding these scrolls and getting them translated of course.
I was a Genbukan student for about 5 years. The politics was the worst. My dojo really didn't buy into them but, back then it really was impossible to avoid.
As a student we understand the political bullshit is never necessary. We just want to learn. The power play and the out dated social structure that make a few feel important just kill progression for everyone. These so called martial arts organizations are just Japanese businesses. And as a paying customer they need to respect everyone not just those who kiss ass and treat grandmasters like a god. I have been fortunate to have relationships with most of them. They are all very kind, great sense of humor and down to earth men. And I believe in my heart none of them have been changed or are driven by the money. But the senior people around the grandmasters are only driven by power, ego, control and money. They think they are representing the organizations best interest but in the end all they do is drive good people away. And that might be the most accurate thing I have ever said about the different organizations.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy Very well said, sir.
It happened to the Choy Lee Fut Kung Fu organization too, just recently. Grand Master Chen Yong Fa is really great, but the 2nd in charge guy, Mark Whelan, is very toxic. He’s destroying internal relationships, provoking schools around the world to leave the organization. My teacher left, actually. Sad but true.
When people say "I could probably have a couple of PhDs if I wanted to" they clearly have NO idea what goes into writing a PhD thesis. You can dive into something for a lifetime and still not understand it in much depth, if you do it like most people, without the rigor and thoroughness needed to write a PhD thesis.
I'm Bujinkan too, but let's cut the chase:
let's perform a carbon 14 measurement on the oldest scrolls to end this discussion once and for all.
All the rest is a conversation. Anthony Cummins has historical data, we need to prove our scrolls are as old as we say they are.
What if there are no ancient "scrolls" and all that hatsumi sensei has is information that was past down to takamatsu sensei from his teachers and these actual scrolls for some of these systems did not survive all the wars in japan, and just time it'self. But through modern manuals (not a scroll) and word of mouth this information was passed down and will continue to be passed down. Does a paper scroll make the information real or does the information have more value then a scroll. The real bottom line is these systems exist people know them, it has been cataloged studied and mastered and has been passed down. Now we have DVD's, digital sources and the cloud. I know that takamatsu sensei had the knowledge and the training, I know that hatsumi has the knowledge and the training, I know that it has been passed down to the current new sokes in some form of record. Digitally or in a paper manual that hatsumi sensei has created. Many grandmasters would update, change (develop) the scrolls and they would re-write them because they became hard to read or the paper deteriorated. So the history is there, the material is still alive and thousands of people are training in it. The material works... I have the information in my language as do many people around the world. I would not even want an old scroll I could not read. Today through the students thousands or written records exist. More now then ever in the last 1000 years. I think people need to drop the whole scroll thing and realize it's 2020 and modern knowledge is not saved for history on rolled up paper. What if these scrolls did exist, but no one knew how to do the material and knowledge and physical movements have been lost to history. Would we rather have ancient scrolls no one could do, or have the information written down in manuals and notes and passed down from word of mouth but really exist? Something was written down or I would not have everything that i have. How many people actual care about the physical paper scrolls? Most people do not even train in the Ryu Ha to start with. Those that do actually train just want the knowledge and the history any way they can get it. You would have more luck proving the Bible is the actual word of GOD, then ninjas in a secret system left scrolls behind with names that would get people killed if discovered. Watch Owls Castle about the genocide of the Iga Ninja by the Japanese government. If my family name was on a document proving my connection to something that would get me killed I would destroy it to. In a modern book there are more copies of the bansenshukai right now then ever existed in ancient times. Maybe 20/30 copies of the bansenshukai were created (handwritten). Now because of Anthony Cummins I beat thousands are in circulation. No one cares it was not written in a scroll or on ancient historical paper. We care that we can read it and learn. Lets just all train and enjoy the beauty of this art and enjoy life. Its to short to worry about something that was never meant for us to see anyway.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy All you say is good, BUT...DON´T CALLED "NINJUTSU", that is the thing, is only budo ,,,
Cristian Sepúlveda I do more then just Budo, I teach traditional Bujutsu, ninjutsu tactics based off modern military aspects and modern survival based off technology not history. I was in the United States Marine Corps and understand what will work and what is just bullshit. Call it what ever you want. I what to understand what the ninja did in the past just for a historical starting point and for the sake of history. I carry a .45 not a katana, Ninpo is not done today like it was done 500 years ago. Who cares how it was done 500 years ago. What can you do right now with today’s weapons, todays technology, todays medicines. I’m not re-enacting ninjutsu like a guy running around Gettysburg in a blue jacket. Ninpo is alive and changing, adapting evolving. Train for todays world and stop living in the past. Let’s see where we can take this art and what we can make our future look like, This art belongs to us now, there are no set rules what we can and can not do with it. Stop putting everything in a box. Learn from the past but don’t stay there.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy Well...if you not know interesting in the past, you not maintain a "tradition", you make modern things (like how master Hatsumi do when he says after a body health problem
change all the manner to teach his Bujinkan). You can make new things and called for his name "Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu", but a lot of shihan and dai shihan in the west sale this like NINJA...because NINJA name sales. And yes, I see how the Bujinkan take and use the katana, and it's obvious
nobody in the school wants know how used... and if you know or have interest in the past, you know NINPO is only a technique, and not the form you use the word...what traditional bujutsu you teach???. By the way, militar of today, marines or other not are "ninjas", not are modern ninjas.
@@cristian.crixus The best thing about me is i could care less what other people say, never did. What ever I do, what ever you want to call it, what ever label you want to put on it I know it comes from a accurate source, I train hard to make sure what ever Im doing works and it helps people grow as human beings not just fighters but spiritual warriors. What I do has a 100% connection to history and the foundation is correct, but from there I allow it to grow and expand to be able to fit in TODAYS world with todays laws. I dont teach a street fight club, I teach survival. Mentally and Physically. I have put myself out there. No secrets, I have over 30 videos that show my students and myself. People can judge all they want. I know I help a lot of people and I will continue to help anyone who needs it and can see the value in what I do. I respect Hatsumi Sensei and I respect the history of the systems he has passed down. But that does not define who I am. Thats part of who I am. The Bujinkan is a VERY big organization you can find hard ass fights and social clubs that barely train. Its in that maturity and diversity that gives the Bujinkan it's strength and why its so big and international. Who i am and how I teach caters to a certain person, it's not for everyone. I just wish everyone stopped trying to prove that the Bujinkan or Hatsumi has no connection to historical records. It 1000% does. Either way what Hatsumi Sensei has done over his lifetime is incredible. Everybody needs to just train stay safe and be happy.
Thanks buddy, hatsumi den,I remember him saying his videos are like commercials for the real training.
Brilliant work Robert! Very thorough indeed sir.
I would suggest that you read Mol Serge's book on Classical Fighting Arts of Japan. THere is a list of all Koryu schools. Only Tagaki Yoshin and Kukkishin are true Koryu. Takamatsu and Hatsumi are Menkyo Kaiden. There is no actual Soke. There are many branches.
The Ryuha that Hatsumi was passed menkyo has been adopted and perhaps taught differently to other schools. I've trained in the bujinkan and also took some classes of kukishin ryu outside of the bujinkan. Its taught differently especially the posture of receiving and delivering techniques from seiza or kneeling. .
You should publish this, its good stuff. I'm in Genbukan, but I have also been in the Buj.
How much is your lifes work worth?
priceless
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy I too understand, I started working on a Book (of everything ninpo/ryuha, etc.), but there is sooo much and never completed it. I started in the Bujinkan, went to the Genbukan and then back to the Bujinkan (for my own reasons). I am not saying now, but maybe when you decide, you could publish it, I know myself and others that train, know and understand what a valuable resource that information is.
Even if he publish it he must translate to English some basic words like tsuki that means strike,words that are Japanese terms and only Dojo ppl will understand or people from Japan.
Everything in plain English or else not worth the trouble.
It’s not fake, it’s just the way it’s trained by the vast majority. Mega dans with mega waistlines flopping around, honestly they couldn’t fight out a paper bag! But they have the ego, the rank! They think they can! Takamatsu could fight like a demon! They’ve invested a tonne of time and money learning from his student! They can fight too then right?!
There is NO WAY takamatsu or ANY students trained they way they do now, it’s laughable! Pathetic and embarrassing!
The actual techniques are solid! You see them in the methodologies in other arts if you know what to look for! The ‘taijutsu’
They need to drop the ‘this isn’t a sport! It’s a deadly martial art!’ Crap! This snobby attitude the majority have!
But unless your training to actually fight with someone not ‘playing along’ and you’re NOT! Your smoking and joking, taking a dive and back slapping! And you know it! you honestly won’t pull it out the hat in the moment! It’s not the karate kid!
You will freeze, and you will get your head punched in! I’m sorry to be brutally honest! But facts are facts
Very good video steve.#:)🤗☺️
True...
The issue is, that likely those arts, have nothing to do with shinobies, not that those ats have been invented recently. Everubody at least have to aknowledge, those arts to have in their origins, pretty far amongst other yawara or jujutsu skills
i know Stephen K Hayes removed from the Buninkai records do you think he should be mentioned in the records since he was a big part it spreading here in the states?
100%
But he did leave and do his own thing. If Tanemura, Manaka and Hayes would have shown loyalty. They would all three be legitimate grandmasters of a traditional Ryu Ha.
Sir, the scrolls Hatsumi has are not “hundreds of years old”. Takamatsu has recreated scrolls. The info is old because it is taken from bansenshukai and other research groups. Takamatsu was banned from Kukishin Ryu. He then appointed hisself the soke of the worlds oldest tradition. It is hard after 35 years or so to admit there is no proof. It is not so much that Takamatsu “invented” the techniques, as much as lifting the techniques and information from historical sources and compiled them into what you see a the Buj. Aside from the “samurai” traditions, Hatsumi offers absolutely nothing as evidence. If you want to take it on faith that Hatsumi happens to be the last soke of not one, but several of these traditions from different sources, then that is your prerogative to not require proof. These “wise” and “smart” people you speak of can accept no proof also, but don’t ask us to. The techniques themselves are not proof. If they are old, that has not been proven. It is a cult. It is a faith based religious worldview that is what is being peddled here. After 40 something years it is tough to come to terms with. But the money is collected so it continues. The sokes listed in these scrolls you speak of are literally comic book characters added in by Takamatsu to fill in the gaps. He thought they were real historical people. He formed all of this after being asked to leave Kukishin Ryu. His friend as a researcher. Hatsumi likely knows this by now, but the fantasy based story has gone to far by now, and foreigners continue to accept with no concrete proof. Going to Japan snd seeing those scrolls is not proof because they are not hundreds of years old. Techniques can be old, but that does not necessarily make the lineage old. The Kuki family has admitted that Takamatsu was asked to leave. There is not even any proof that Toda even existed. Blind faith is what is being asked here.
Interesting take on it. I have heard this side of the story for almost 40 years myself. One of the best days for me is when I stopped caring and said. Hell, I like the skills in the mats, I like the people I have met, and this art what ever it is has helped me in my life develop as a person. I’m not or will ever be the Soke or menkyo Kaiden holder of any of these systems. What ever it is I can make work, I understand it and enjoy practicing it. I’ve taken it all to a modern level and made it into something new anyway. Sucks if your right. But it will literally change nothing but Takamatsuden Sensei made it all up. Taught three incredible students in Hatsumi and Tanemura Sensei, who taught Manaka Sensei and Stephen Hayes who are my teachers. And today these interesting arts have new grandmasters who will keep these systems alive.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy well, I look at it like this: there is a subtle difference In saying that Takamatsu “made it up” vs Takamatsu took real historical information and repackaged it as the “9 Ryu”. It is basically real Samurai jujutsu as far as the hand to hand combat is concerned. It’s just the whole money making fantasy based other ideas that have exploited the eager foreigners who want it all to be true that is insulting. It is also possible that Takamatsu maybe just did this as a sort of tribute to the historical samurai Ryu he learned, as well as the “espionage comic books” and stories if you will that were popular in Japan in his youth. It is a proven fact that Takamatsu was banished from the Kuki family. That is why it is called Kuki Shin DEN Ryu in the Bujinkan, Rather than the original name of “Kuki Shin Ryu”. Subtle but important difference. Togakure Ryu is said the be the oldest and very origin of the art. What are the chances that Takamatsu would have inherited the last AND oldest original Ryu? And on top of that, we are supposed to believe that Takamatsu also inherited the “espionage” aspects of Kukishin Ryu as well, from a totally different source. Hatsumi met a researcher who was friends with Takamatsu. Yumio Nawa. He recommended Hatsumi go talk to Takamatsu about the espionage subject matter if you will, and the rest is history. It could well have been a re-recreation that got out of hand when word spread in the Japanese media. Remember, Hatsumi is literally an actor for TV and movies. It is not a far stretch to see that he is playing that part in real life because that is the position he found himself in, and by that time he was in too deep. Too much money and shame involved. Japanese are different than westerners in how they keep quite, especially when it comes to their teachers or masters. Takamatsu had no martial arts credentials after being banished from Kuki Shin Ryu. So he had to console himself and save face by coming up with all of these ideas from real historical sources, but simultaneously not being a real direct lineage that he was given. The Buj techniques are basically very similar to a number if other samurai Ryu, so they could have been learned from Kukishin Ryu, Takagi Yoshin Ryu, ect. It is the fabrication and misrepresentation that I find intolerable, not the techniques themselves. Notice that the researcher Numio Yawa never to my knowledge wrote a book about Takamatsu lineage, despite being personal friends with him. Yet Yumio Nawa writes many other books on this “espionage” history. Takamatsu compiled samurai jujitsu he learned with comic books and bansenshukai is what everything is pointing to. Hatsumi will even tell you the scrolls he has were not originals, but recreated by Takamatsu because the original scrolls were conveniently “lost in a fire”. This is kyo jitsu. Modern recreated compiling of historical info being sold as a historical handed down lineage in order to corner the market. Mostly to unsuspecting westerners. Who yes, can not have menkyo Kaiden because they are not Japanese. They have their own inner circle. But it is a mute point because the scrolls, ranks, dan ranks, go dan, “shidoshi” mean nothing really, because the lineage is not legit. This is why Hatsumi sells and gives these ranks so easily…to some. Follow the money.
Typos Takagi Yoshin Ryu, Buj, ect, but you get the idea
Totally agree. There was a few moments when I thought hold up. Some of this history does not add up. I’m getting strange stories from all kinds of people. Then at a seminar I was teaching I heard a few testimonies on how meeting me and this art has changed there life for the better. For years I took it personal. Then I had a long conversation one night with a very high level teacher and he asked me if I could make the information work in real life. I said 100%. He asked if it has helped me as a person. I said yes. He asked if it has helped my students. I said yes. Do you understand how it all comes together as a collective system. I said yes. Then he surprised me and said how many of these Japanese grandmasters have ever knocked on your door and said I’m here to help you. I said never. He said then live your life. Keep doing what your doing and help as many people that want your help. Stay safe, happy and get as much as you can from this lifetime. From that moment on I stopped worrying about what people said or thought. I understand this art, enjoy it, and I have a community of people in my life that I love and respect. What more can you ask for.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy I ask for more demonstrable honesty regarding extraordinary claims. If Hatsumi does not know, he should say so. But he will not. To much money and pride are involved now. Even if they “help” people, the lies are still lies. I value honesty. To quote/paraphrase Larry David; “if I did believe those things, I wouldn’t tell anybody”.
Thank you for sharing this video sir. i am a student of bunjinkan here in Richmond VA. shima dojo.
Thanks for checking out the channel. Let some people know what’s going on here. Thanks again
Why was the majority of the Japanese written in kana? For example: battou is written as 抜刀 not ばっとう or hizaguruma (litterally knee wheel) is 膝車 and not ひざぐるま; it was even spelled wrong at 29:10 with が being used instead of ぐ - がるま is not a word.
That’s all I can read.
*29:09 point 13.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy Fair enough, did you draft/consolidate the technique list yourself?
Sadly as it is to say this: most of the hiragana comes from a romanji to hiragana free translator. When I wrote this I would make sure I had a romanji version I could read, then I would try to include hiragana for those that could not read English. I have not went back through the entire book and triple or even double checked the Romanji to Hiragana like I should have. But this book is just for me to teach from. I will never sell or mass produce the manual but as the years go by I continue to update, proof read and clarify my descriptions to make it easier to read. I’m sure if I went back and looked at all the hiragana or had an expert proof read it with a good understanding of Bujutsu or Ninpo they would make many changes. It was hard enough to put myself in a position to be able to see this information, learn it and be able to write it all down. Then go back and organize everything. Every time I open that manual on my computer I bet I fix or work on spelling or descriptions grammar and definitions. And have been doing that for over a decade. If you ever want a 300 page project let me know.
33 years under Hatsumi-Sensie.
He's still the example to follow.
You've trained with Soke for 33 years, every week?
You can tell Hatsumi knows just by the way he floats when he walks
Respectfully, your points are off target. The argument isn’t that the hand to hand and weapons combat techniques were made up by Takamatsu, it’s that they aren’t Ninjutsu but are advertised and taught as such. Were the masters you mentioned teaching lock picking, burglary, pyrotechnics, surveillance, water crossing, climbing, deception, disguise, codes and secret writing, black magic, etc.? If not, they weren’t teaching Ninjutsu.
Believe it or not they did teach all that. Pick up Ninpo Secrets from Shoto Tanemura (Genbukan), Hatsumi Sensei, Stephen Hayes, Anthony Cummings all have published work with that material. In Japan not so much. But plenty of teachers around the world have taught all the aspects you mentioned. I’m talking more about the Ryu Ha and family scrolls. But that information is out there if you look for it.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy Some of that was taught in the past, but I don’t know of any Bujinkan students learning those skills today. Most, if not all, Bujinkan students are learning strictly hand to hand and weapons combat techniques. Physical combat is not Ninjutsu. It may have been something the Shinobi had learned in addition to Ninjutsu; however, Taijutsu is not Ninjutsu but it’s being falsely marketed as such.
These videos are a labor of love. Thank you.
So in other words, you've done zero research and are going by what you've been told.
Mr. Cummins seems to be using the weight of his degree and his claim to have trained in the Bujinkan to dissuade people from believing in it and to join him collectively in rejecting the organizations legitimacy. I seriously doubt that any modern degree would make one an authority over subjects of intense secrecy and taboo that have been protected and conveyed only by word of mouth and necessity. His other claim is also as stable as drenched tissue paper, that he has trained in the Bujinkan. He starts by claiming to have spent four years in Japan to attain his degree and that for one year he trained at the Hombu. He then details that he did not have the money to pay for lessons and could only attend on certain Sundays (offering to clean the dojo, which he claimed was 'dirty') when time permitted due to his academic pursuits. Giving him the benefit of the doubt we can assume that he may have attended less than twenty lessons and more likely a dozen or less. When observing he claimed that Hatsumi just nodded and said "Play" to everything that was done and then Cummins criticized the participants as though they would be totally ineffective. He showed off his own moves that he claimed Hatsumi then 'imitated'. The level of immaturity this man possesses is palpable. He brags about defending himself as a child by "Bashing someone's head into the sidewalk over and over again", claims that Hatsumi must have been learning from him (a TRUE warrior assuredly) by imitation, and insults both Takamatsu and Hatsumi in sophomoric fashion continuously. He is making a career out of this. Mr. Cummins doesn't understand the subtleties of the art and compares it to front facing competitive MMA, Karate, Judo practices and thus dubs modern Ninjutsu an ineffective self self defense art. He also, of course, promotes young westerners who he claims are 'real' Ninjutsu instructors for you to adopt and embrace while rejecting the established Japanese retainers. I'm sure, though, that someone using Ninjutsu to win in life, to better themselves, even to instruct others, can only benefit from the general populace's increasing disbelief.
It's been fake all along and hatsumi cashed in all he had to do was put the scrolls forward to be checked
Want to see the scroll, go to Japan. Find the Soke who was awarded the system from Hatsumi Sensei. Ask that new soke to pick one of his senior students for the last 20 years to be your training partner. Train with him for a few hours. They will beat it into you.
If the information is historical and accurate, show us the links with the Momochi family, and others...please!! not only a list of names.
This is the link from the togakure sokes www.kogakure.de/artikel/togakure-ryu/
Doctor in Japan or Asia in general is often a lesser qualification than the west. Hatsumi was basically an osteopath/shiatsu accupressure practicioner not a orthopaedic doctor level like we know in western society. All respect to Hatsumi sensei but he only attained an arts level education in theatrical studies not a medical degree.
Hence, the fact that we were given stories, not facts, from the beginning. It's all pumped up so we would go across the sea to make them some money, sadly. Again, let's thank Sho Kosugi and his movies for that. I'm sure it would have been better to be a student of Sho Kosugi at that time in the 80's. I'm sure he would have taught you Karate, as it was, not trying to sell you ninjitsu. You can see his choreographies on youtube nowadays to attract people to his website.
@@Roguesanbo13 And I personally don´t understand why people simply don´t study acrobatics, juggling, Kung Fu, boxing/thaiboxing and Jujutsu/Jiujitsu plus some Catchwrestling and maybe some clinchfighting. That should make an allroundfighter. And if people absolutely want to take it to warfare-level then get militarytraining. If one is not a skilled fighter after having studied all that, then what can make one a skilled fighter? Besides all this emphasis on information instead of training is often a waste of time in my view. Like reading a gossip-magazine. You don´t really get wiser or more skillful after having read it. Better spend a day in Kindergarten to watch human behaviour. And excuse me for seing it that way.
When you see what "western doctors" accept to kill people by obeying financial lobbies, i clearly better like those "grannies receits" and wisdom sense far over their "science" . Hope you're not one of them ;)
Of course you meant disrespect. You were just being subtle about it
I wonder what Antony Cummins would say about this. The man is on a mission to disprove Bujinkan
I’m sure he hates it and thinks I’m drinking the bullshit koolaid. I actually respect the work Anthony Cummins does. I hope the new sokes of the individual schools really steps up and brings these school back to life. They may never be proved at the level AC respects or believes. But I have enough faith and belief for the both of us.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy I’m with you on that one. One man or even multiple people couldn’t bulllshit all of what the Bujinkan, Jinenkan, and Genbukan are. The material is way too detailed. It’s hard to explain but I’m saying it doesn’t have an...aura of being a fake. Then not to mention there’s katana training and also instruction on how to use knives and other ninja tools as well (btw I would love to see Bujinkan katana against HEMA). The ninja did have a fighting curriculum, even the “ninjas” of modern times like the Navy SEALs, the CIA, KGB, etc. were taught hand to hand combat. Especially, ESPECIALLY the last two because they are spies and dealt with espionage etc.. History says some samurai were ninja and some ninja were samurai. Hattori Hanzo was this. So it would make sense that the combat training ninjas used came from the samurai. Btw here’s an amazing article that affirms what you said in your video. I think this coupled with what you said is proof enough that the Ninja and samurai arts taught in the ninjutsu community are real. blog.bushinbooks.com/archives/4
@@adandyguyinspace5783 Holy sh@#, I actually went in and read that, good stuff ! I kind of think of all the bickering in the comments section like a train wreck...its awful but I can't look away haha. I train in this art and love it and am so fascinated with the historical aspects and want to be like Mr. Stevens here and dig deep while I'm alive , and if someone came along and said "2 of the 12 arts you study " (I do some others too) are bullshit , I would just shrug and think oh well, they are fun you are missing out. Oh and another thing, if you disagree and dislike then DON'T WATCH THESE VIDEOS , STUDY AT THESE DOJOS, OR OTHERWISE INVOLVE YOIRSELF WITH IT , YOU ARE A TROLL OTHERWISE !! Anyway good link !
Not to disprove Bujinkan, but to disprove that fact that there is a NINJA martial art per se.
@@Roguesanbo13 refer to the article I posted. The ninja, at least most of them, HAD to have known combat and be good at it
The key word of the whole video is "I believe". Very poor argument, I should say.
Bravo!
Should one ever be so arrogant as to say, "I know"?
Even a think tank full of Doctors and military would have trouble faking it all
for me childhood was rural Hawaii...80ties, I was obsessed with martial arts and ninjutsu was very popular. Later on I was involved with judo, boxing, kickboxing, wrestling and football. I founded one of America's first mixed martial arts clubs and a Ninjutsu group showed up to try their hand in the cage. They wore full ninja gi down to the tabi boots and weren't initially taken seriously even tho they were compeditive until their head instructor went 5 and 0 in American Shooto MMA competition.
I trained with them for a few years and was granted a sensei rank in Taijutsu... many years later a guy showed up to my gym talking about Bujinkan and I was not familiar...
after looking up Bujinkan online it's kind of difficult to accept because it seems so hokey.
Fake no-touch Masters are very detrimental to the martial arts world and although Bujinkan doesn't seem to step over this most important line it still maintains a lot of theatrical techniques that in my opinion have no place in the hardcore world of ancient medieval Asian combat
My attitude about Tai Jitsu is vale tudo striking with anything goes Judo style lapel work... I don't think ninjas bothered with much of the techniques they depict on the bujinkan videos as their motivation was simply in and out survival or Battlefield expedients!
I have to assume the theatrics are simply an intelligent business attitude rather than a realistic take on Ancient medieval Asian combat or its modern day equivalent!
Its hard enough to get people to take Ninjutsu seriously without kung fu movie choreography and dangerously hokey fake Aikido style no-touch throws!?!
The Bukinkan is a massive organization. Literally 100’s of thousands of people. At both ends of the spectrum, top and bottom there is a major difference between methods taught. At the top 10% you have a lot of current and X military and government people who are very dangerous. At the bottom of the spectrum it’s basically a ninja version of dungeons and dragons. Somewhere in the middle is a lot of people training hard and do not even consider themselves ninja, just martial artist like any other Ko Ryu system. I have seen big jujutsu organizations and the bottom 20% would never be a good fighter. The top 20% can kick ass. The rest just treading water. Like all organizations.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy i agree but i feel its quite theatrical from the top
There were a lot of strange characters claiming ninjitsu origin back in the day and kung fu movie fight choreography was something they seem to all agree on
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy Wow! You said it! If I had a dime for every individual who does not understand that fighting competatively has to do with how one trains, I would be rich. Ditto for training realistically. Yes, in the top of the Booj I can vouch that there are some very dangerous people... My training in the other X kans is limited so I cannot vouch the same.
Great stuff, I am in the bujinkan and teach a small group in nz. The stuff works and I've used it, had students and teachers that have used it. Like you said, so many professional people (and I've met a few) wouldn't waste their time if it wasn't effective.
Hey Please explain to me how bujinkan worked in a real situation because it gets a lot of criticism. However here in the uk a lot of former military and special forces guys trained it especially in the 80's and they swear by it. I am interested in starting but still not sure.
@@xingyimaster1987 Hi...BK ninjutsu in 80's and now is totaly different....BDW BK ninjutsu for special forces is great but old program only...Regards
Train in Chinese MA, Japanese MA and now I am returning to Bujinkan 🔥👑🔥🥊🔥👑
You were duped my man. Hatsumi had the chance two show scrolls to the two most important organizations to prove authenticity and he failed that test. The Japanese ninja museum in Japan also does not except Bujinkan as authentic. You are in denial. It is dramatic I know.
You should not speak maybe he could not cause he could had taken a oath before he became soke and got instructions by sensai takamatsu. Did you ever think that?
No ones speak about you and not ones know you is it ??......... envié is to bad Rob
One just has to analyze the contents to see it. There are three Samurai Bujutusu schools that claim a link to Iga Ninja, one is Gyokko Ryu, the other is Koto Ryu and the third is Togakure Ryu. These three schools feature taijutsu (unarmed combat), kenjutusu, bojutsu and so on.
These three schools share a common root and technical elements from a Chinese internal style can be found in each of them including influences of the Chinese sword and an evolution of tiger, crane, dragon and leopard thrown into the mix. They show a technical evolution that could only have come about from a progressive integration over time of Chinese martial root with Japanese kenjutsu and tantojutsu, leading, in the case of Gyokko Ryu, to convergent patterns with some Panantukan's gunting and transitional postures that are consistent with knife use and also feature muscle and tendon attacks coming from the knife methods). A strong use of the knife is consistent with shinobi activities especially with disguise change that often precluded one from carrying swords.
It is unlikely that a single man produced these three styles which are different from each other, though they share a same root. Togakure Ryu also includes actual full set of Shinobi no Jutsu methods, In-nin (stealth activity) and Yo-nin, as well as unorthodox fighting methods, escape methods and also possible applications to ambush methods, the shinobi set present in the Togakure Ryu system is consistent with known historical manuals from Iga.
Secondly, the public affirmation of teaching a style that was practiced by a shinobi family and teaching shinobi no jutsu might actually downgrade one’s standing in the early twenty century Japan, Takamatsu would have little financial and social benefit, which is one of the quoted reasons for the argument that he invented these styles. The greater likelihood is that these styles are actual shinobi styles even if their statement as being spread much beyond the Toda family tradition may have been an “embellishment” for a better acceptance of a tainted position that is to state that one is teaching a shinobi tradition.
With all due respect to you Rob, the channel and the school and things you teach. Because you are one of the good ones. BUT:
The problem with the Boojers and Takematsu isn't just their legitimacy, it is the fanatical dishonorable and toxic way so many of them act in an obvious effort to silence people, and corner the market on the term Ninja. So many boojers get bent out of shape when anyone outside of their cult dares to investigate, research, learn, reinvent, or otherwise revisit the concept of Ninja and keep it alive. But to be frank, you nor the boojers have PROOF, though your argument about spies is a good one, you do not have PROOF of anything. It is still He said, she Said.
Without PROOF, how DARE the Booj Dox people and smear others? Why attack them for daring to explore these concepts or be inspired by them for modern interpretations? Why attack people at all? Why not just demonstrate the authenticity you have?
Obviously, if a person impersonates Bujinkan or Takematsu's lineage, you have a right and duty to shit on them and expose them, etc.
But You have assholes like Don Roley and his lapdogs like Dean Eichler (who isn't even a student FFS), who Dox people, and attack them PERSONALLY. His Ego is utterly toxic and disgusting to any sincere martial artist that isn't into nepotistic bullshit.
My point here is that you have so many asshole boojers running their mouths and exposing frauds and doxing peolpe, yet are complete and utter hypocrites when put to the same tests for legitimacy and fraud...
If Booj was so good, if Booj was the better way, if Booj wasn't so fucking insecure, they wouldn't need to attack people making videos out of their mom's basement every time they get an audience.
I have personally seen them take down people, not simply disprove things or put out better info. But to literally attack people personally for their research or efforts. Be it Antony Cummins, or Dan Harmon, Frank Dux, Ashida Kim, or That Korean Ninja guy, or Anshu Christa or anyone that they don't like. Someone being a Fraud is bad enough, but isn't it enough to just be better? do you need to expose people for their private lives and things to take them down? Did Don Roley have to dox and slander people all the time? This is a sign of an insecure cult... and it's disgusting. I'm amazed Haatsumi allows it...
Sorry, you have my respect as a student and teacher and all the rest, Rob. And I am sincerely sorry if my tone is disrespectful saying Booj instead of Bujinkan, but I ran away from everything Bujinkan because of the way so many people in the Booj act. And I am not alone... The Bujinkan borders on a fanatical cult and is filled with psychos, nepotistic narcists, and toxic weabos who think just speaking Japanese makes them better than anyone else at studying the subject.
And this is a crying shame because there is enough historical value in Bujinkan that it should be carried into the future...
But not by the narcissistic nepotistic assholes that represent it, at least here in the USA. You being one of the exceptions obviously. I am still liking your video, because it is a good one and you do good videos and work. But I have ZERO respect for the booj as a cult. Legitimate or not. Sorry, they made Ninjutsu a Toxic Cult, and I do I understand they want to preserve their traditions and be respected as the source they believe they are, but this is not how it's done.
@@Shidoshi578 someone's not addressing the real issue here: is he wrong?
i agree with what your saying. It is a shame that this organization and others with the material in the scrolls do not have the respect the schools deserve. No one asked and most do not care but while I'm alive I'm going to continue to just showcase what I have learned and help others who want to train. If in some way I can help people understand the value in these systems then I would be happy. What you call Boojers I have the explication of "Couch Ninja's" with a bag of Doritos and a energy drink who watch videos then sneak around in the backyard in the middle of the night with a tee-shirt wrapped around their face. I'm ready to drop the entire Ninja title and go with Bujutsu or Traditional Japanese Martial Arts. Does it have ties to historical ninjutsu 100% yes, does anyone do classical ninjutsu in this modern times NO. Its outdated, and in most cases what i learn in the USMC has more current value. But I still love it all.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy And I respect you for all that. Its a damn shame because I do indeed like the stuff the Kans did, they carried us forward in so many ways. But these assholes like roley and Eichler and so on have ruined what was beautiful by trying to own it and bully the community with Doxing.
I do hope you continue to share your own work, even if it's outdated, it's fun.
I practice HEMA now, I love it, but I grab my Shotgun long before I'd grab my Longsword.
Keep doing your thing Brother, you are one of the good ones as a I said.
@@geronimosbones It seems every organization has it's bad apples that ruin the whole bunch. The egotists, the elitists and extremists, the know-it-alls, etc....It's a damn shame.
I can't say anyone I've met in the places I've trained were like that and I am thankful for it. My buyus are all very nice people who support eachother and help eachother grow stronger. It pains me to think there are toxic assholes in bujinkan. Or any martial arts organizations for that matter. But unfortunately that's the case.
I would say some might still do actual ninjutsu in terms of espionage and warfare and what have you, but probably keep it secret like a ninja should. Lol. I haven't met any weebs in bujinkan but I have met fellow otakus. Just big fans of anime. I am too. Anime is awesome and is a great source of inspiration. Albeit an exaggerated and inaccurate one, and some are hit or miss seeing as the genres and quality vary greatly, but hey, you gotta make the shows exciting somehow, don't ya?
As far as dropping the title of "ninja," it's up to the individual. If you don't view yourself as a practitioner of ninjutsu then I would say don't use it. If you do, then use it. Err, but a ninja isn't supposed to let people know they're a ninja. :)
@@omnigod6435 , if you say that a Ninja is not supposed to tell anyone that they are Ninja, then for the record, please, everyone note: I am not Ninja!
Wow, thank you! This was absolutely perfectly represented. It's something that is not easy to understand unless you are taught. Even if it was written down, and some of it is, of course... there are things that you have to feel before you can grasp the concept.
Thank you for this intricate explanation of the Lineage of bujinkan. I thought Richard van donk was his successor?
Is that what Van Donk told you?
Well done sir, hope to see you in Japan when this pandemic is over. Thank you for you efforts in putting this out. Japanese history is complex and takes great time and patience to connect everything. It’s always those who lack patience, mock or spread rumors about things they know nothing about.
Scamdemic!
Japandemic?oh wait haha ninpo taijutsu all day my neeeeeenja!!!!!!
All this and Antony Cummins, who cannot read or speak Japanese and relies on translations, will tell you that Takamatsu has made it all up. Yet we have people like you and Sean Askew who have spent a lifetime doing research.
I've been training in Ninjutsu off and on throughout my life, I'm currently dedicated hopefully permanently this time. I will admit, I had doubts about the historical accuracy etc, Takematsu, etc due to the constant "disproving " going around. I have come around to deciding I believe, I feel it in my training, I literally feel "legitimacy " in each technique. I stand with you. And side note, even IF there is some untruth or twisted truth, the martial arts are legit, and the people who supposedly invented them are absolute geniuses that deserve recognition! But as said, I choose to believe. I think the big question was and is always whether or not Ninjutsu is a "martial art " , where ninjas were real. I would say it's a martial way. Or a philosophy. But that's just me. Anyway, thank you for all you do.
He is desperate to find historical evidence beyond the 1500 in order to prove definitively that ninjutsu is just espionage, but there is still a lot of history that is not known about that period where there is not much written evidence.
@@rnin1754 In the end, does it really matter ? MMA was just created a few years ago, does that make it fake lol? Shotokan was invented in 1920's, doesn't mean it isn't real. Even if Takamatsu made some amalgamation of his own, what is the difference , it's rooted in historical fighting methods. Just my opinion . I like all martial arts and love history, but try not to lose sleep over any of it, love to talk about it that's about it.
@@adam5words688 You are completely right.
As a new student of To Shin Do (modern ninjutsu) I couldn’t agree more! I had my doubts for years because of exactly what you said...but yo...when I found out how much combat my Sensei has ACTUALLY been in (includes military service in Iraq)....for him to fall back on Ninjutsu spoke to me...I’m blessed for a dojo that practices ToShinDo to be so close to me
@@TheMelloMunsta5 I started with Toshin do and thoroughly enjoyed it, coming from a Karate background it was very refreshingly different. I hope you stick with it, they tend to have great family like communities at those schools! I'm at an ex-Quest school part of the Discovery network now, but same atmosphere and I wouldn't trade it for anything . Same people too. A few schools from the New England area broke away for whatever reason and they've switched from toshindo to a modern approach to traditional ninjutsu, which sounds the same haha
The only way to find out if a martial art is REAL IS TO GO FIGHT THEM. FOR REAL. If you get your ass kicked, hard, oh well. PROOF.
Exactly this. These mac dojo people have no clue.
They are LARPING.
So what I've learned from a historian a real historian who knows about this is that the original art of the Ninja was not boojin Khan or anything like that those didn't exist back in the day it was shinobi no jutsu and the reason why you can't find any evidence on this is not because it doesn't exist at all it's because the scrolls were burnt by historians and replaced so hatsumi probably has the replaced scrolls which are replaced by historians after they burnt the original ones
I challenge you to an exhibition match, where we shall demonstrate our feats of fisticuffsmanship until fistic amputation is visibly and satisfactorily achieved.
Great respect for your work Sensei, I only saw a proper umote gyako delivered and felt the spirit, to convince me of the true spirit of Nimpo Taijutsu, before I started my training. I always hungered for Henka, as a previous student as I believed Henka is the key to mastership. Unfortunately I never reached black belt, however, being poor and for a very long time only having had the ability to train was to be uke to my Sensei, and teaching his children classes, I have learned. Your knowledge is superior and very comprehensive. Very well done.
It would be the greatest collaboration if all the Grandmasters could train their respective menkiyo-kaiden Students in all their respective aspect, henka, and revive what they have been taught and or discovered through years of dedication.
Send me your email and I will send you something to study. Send it to usninpo@comcast.net
Hehe. Ask China about soke Takamatsu 😁 here's a question, why have I never heard of you? I know the real masters. You're wearing a gi from Burma. I have 2 of the same gis. One black, one red. I've met Bud, I know Roy. Thank you for standing up for our art. There's plenty of jerks on the internet who wish to become self proclaimed and bash our art. The Mongolian Tiger is probably still being sought for violent arrest warrants in China even after passing away to the next life in peace. It's great to see you take up for us in a world of envy. What people hate about our art is their inability to incorporate it for profit. It's ours, not theirs. Money has no purpose. They don't comprehend, therefore they attempt to attack. I've said enough. Domo Ari Gato Gozai Mashita. Also, it's nice to meet you.
Impressive work sir!
Still no hard evidence shown.
Why not let expertice in Japan look at the evidence for Bujinkan authenticity in a historical aspect?
Joined Bujinkan in the early 80’s and if I recall correctly Takamasu him self wrote down the scrolls from the okuden tradition, well then I’m sorry all Bujin’s, the art will be challaged for ever.
There are a lot of strange things in Bujinkan over the years and not infrequently, information has changed over time or been polished to counter critics.
Also Bujinkan does not accept internal criticism, why? What is there to hide?
Still I have as you met a lot of the senior students over the years and also trained in Japan.
I have had a great time whether the Bujinkan is authentic or not.
If you want to learn mondern "Ninjutsu" then you would probably be better off studying under a modern Japanese military commando and not someone that's looking at 500 year old scrolls.
I agree, that’s why we do that as well, just not Japanese but American Military USMC. We study the history to honor the past, but we don’t live in it. More to come on that latter.
Ha ha you're a frigging ninja huh is that rocking back and forth to soothe your ki? Bullshitkan
Your just Jealous and want to be like him! That is why you talk shit punk! All can see, you have not put in the effort and it shows in your animosity. Does this Martial artist and his knowledge make you feel mall and insignificant...?
I dont think Hatsumi lied or made up what he teaches and maybe some does have historical roots, but it seems the ninja stuff is a recent invention. Also all his students are non Japanese. He gives out 15th degree blackbelts. That has got to be his own private joke. Like ok you want high rank I'll give you it, pay me. Is 15th degree high enough?
This sounds like the Joseph Smith defense: there is no way Joseph Smith was smart enough to write the Book Of Mormon.
South Park could do an episode on Takamatsu-Den.
Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb lol I am a fan of south park. No disrespect to my sensai.
Hi, thanks for this video. Enjoyed all of em. I trained in Bujinkan Tengu Ryu in Belgium. Worked with Maria vandervliet, Sensei Steven K and Sensei Danny Roels. Many more have followed after them. Ninpo is a part of my life, attitude, posture, even walking is training. To bad i had to stop due to physical problems. Stay safe! No Ark taka no tsumi o kakuse.
Absolutely love the vivid description of the material in this video. I look forward to meeting you someday sir. Greetings from Tijuana, B.C., Mexico.
Like you said before every time “I believe “ if you believe that not necessary means that it’s true. If you are happy doing that and It works for you, bless you in your path… for me it’s a different thing and I have to move on and do different things. Respect Osu.
@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy I like the knocking down tiger picture. I had no idea hattori hanzo was apart of bujinkan lineage.
So where can i order the book ?
I am afraid you make the fundamental mistake that ninjutsu is a martial art the takamatsu den arts are not fake but are they ninjutsu? I have yet to see any takamatsu den student display even a basic level of skill taken from a ninjutsu scroll great jujitsu kenjutsu yes but ask one to make a water proof torch start a fire pick a lock etc then no these are just the basics from the basenshukai let alone the really cool stuff shinobi jutsu is not bujutsu it was taught in a different classroom the fact that iga ryu was a ninja school at this point is laughable every ryu in Japan had a shinobi school try katori or yagyu for instance
I agree with some of what you say. I will just add that I am a veteran of the USMC. So I honor tradition and train in many older forms of training to see the root or the fundamental aspects. But some stuff is just simply out dated. A water proof touch can be bought at Walmart, studying the distance between fires to keep your moat light up at night and training your guards to keep a constant rotation so no gaps can be entered is done with sensors and night vision. Colored rock formations is now communicated with text messages. Yes I still teach colored rice and rock formations and stealth and camouflage, breaking and entering but we have to understand today’s world. Ninpo is alive, adapting. I don’t need to train horses and build floating devices out of animal skins. I practice combat driving skills with a truck or SUV and buy very good blow up kayak. I teach theory and tradition so we understand the past, but I look to the future and beyond to see what I can use to survive in today’s world with today’s laws. Is it ninjutsu the way it was done 600 years ago. No, why because it will not work. Today’s ninjas are navy seals. I’m now a civilian, so I do what I can with ancient traditions because it’s fun for me, I train in modern weapons because that’s what I need to do to survive. Do I work on my ground game and jujutsu, he’ll yeah, why because I have to. Do I go out to the range and keep my firearms skills fresh he’ll yeah. DoI practice my stealth and tracking skills, yes because I hunt. Today Ninjutsu is a game for some, a fantasy for others. For me and my students we balance between keeping some traditions alive for the sake of history and ignoring Japan and some out dated ancient almost re-enactments and replace them with modern military tactics. Is it traditional or historical, yes but mainly no. Will it keep me alive today. 100% yes. Do I enjoy it yes. And I hope I never need to use it.
A man after my own heart it does get me why students do not apply teachings from the basenshukai etc today not many people realise there are two shinobi scenes the x kans those of us in the pen testing security auditing community the basenshukai is still my base in principle I broke into my local supermarket with a vape pen and they paid me very welll for it they amended their security protocols so I got in using a balloon 😈 try teaching students to bypass hotel dates and offer there services to hotels travel the world selling decent safes a college of mine came to shinobi arts through traditional karate he now has a helicopter in his back garden ! Ninpo learnt well is amazing
Hotel safes not dates !writing on a tablet with no glasses on ....I started with Pete king about 85 if you were wondering stopped 2006 with the genbukan now try to live the life for real get lockpiking 😊
I trained in the Budjinkan and asked what are we learning are the other schools samurai combat schools they dont like you asking all ya can find out is through the Budjinkan and you can not find any Soke going back from Togakure Ryu etc weapon training etc is there but why can you not find any proof
The proof is in the training. Learning the actual art from a teacher is how you get the information and the "knowledge" and skill is the proof. Not a piece of paper, its the knowledge.
Is this not a rather dumb question? Why can't you find proof of what the CIA did or is doing? How about 500 years from now? Will you be finding PROOF of what they did?
United States Ninpo Academy if skill is the proof - fight someone who is a martial artist, and do so openly.......you know...someone who won’t stand still to be hit or fail to defend himself.
I sure wish this book was available.
i dont care what people say people try to say that Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu and ninpo is fake but it all what they think i still study it because let try you tell there not happy in it they spreading disinfo they don't to know it so people lie shinobi no mono is a spy that study and train it shinobi no jutsu that also part samurai class war fair i respect that art of ninjutsu an void people negative people because they not happy with life so try bring people down thumb up on your video
I say not. The Bujinkan is being progressively 'watered down' from the 33rd master onwards. The current instructional video from shihan are pathetic. There is no technique and the students are falling over at the first suggestion they should. Every effective martial art is under threat. I would like to see more rogue dojo's concentrating on the core of the Bujinkan. This recent itteration is forgetting the arts routes. SORT IT OUT!
Good schools exist but we are in basements and garages and have a small amount of students over many years. Agreed though, there is zero quality control and that's an issue. Doubt it will ever be addressed. It is a runaway train at this point.
I've seen "no quality control" and I've seen "micro-management and complete control". Both seem very unhealthy to me. Does anyone do something in the middle?
How are there scrolls and hundred-year-old documents if the only way to learn was from the masters themselves. If they write them on a scroll or parchment, then there is a record and it's no different than any other martial art style in history.
I agree. No different then any other traditional system that is hundreds of years old. If you can train from someone who has or has been taught the material. It’s exactly the same as hundreds of other systems.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy All other systems have documented history or techniques. To say you cant find documented techniques or history because its secrete and the only way to learn is from the masters themselves is false. There are documented histories and techniques that had been written and passed down. There is truth on both sides. The sides that claim its secrete and passed down from families has a history to support it. Its also true to claim that there is documents and teachings that can be found. I'm simply stating that the claim of no writings or documentation can be found even if you look because it's so secrete is just not accurate. There is documentation. Now I think some folks that claim things without any historical proof may have a hard time. But even early Ninjutsu took teachings from other styles and adapted it to their objectives.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy Please understand im not talking ill of Ninpo or the other Ninjitsu forms. I think they are all great and can teach history, self-defense, physical fitness, ect. Im just making the point that there IS lots of documentation of the style and history.
WHAT RECOGNIZED JAPANESE ORGANIZATION ENDORSES THAT THESE SCHOOLS ARE REALLY OLD?
What did your research into this question turn up?
My understanding is that 7 of the 9 are legitimate. The 3 listed as "ninjutsu" though are questionable.
I mean no disrespect either.
I did actually like shinden fudo Ryu myself. And I do think there is wisdom in the techniques. But at the very least, few people teach properly.
You processes great knowledge Sensei. 👍 You are just great! 🙏
A good take on the subject. I often wondered about that Cummins book.
You mention some great names from the past Doran and Mark! Two wonderful teachers I was privaleged to get to train with in seminars.
I love Hatsumi .
Hatsumi is my favorite,haha Bruce Lee is my second fav
@@davecurtis6930 growing up Bruce Lee was probably my biggest Idol . Now in my 40's I have discovered many others that are just as amazing. Donn Draeger , Danny Inosanto Wich was a student of Bruce Lee and still teaches Jeet Kun Do and master at Phillipino martial arts . Ah Bruce Jutnich a grand master of Kosho Ryu . And of Course so many from the Okinawan masters . So many legends . From so many different combative arts .Another amazing guy is Hunter Armstrong who has some very informative videos on Hoplology or study of combative behaviors From all over the world . He studied under Donn Draeger .
Throughly enjoyed your video as a guy who has rank in Genbukan and Bujinkan. Thanks for sharing Sir
Thank you Martial Brother.
Hello my name is Richard Martinez. About 16 yrs ago I attended the ryu shinkan here in denver. The instructor was Larry Tatum. He was with bujikan, he has since retired. I never actually learned any ninpo. He taught a separate lineage yoshin ryu jujutsu. I been wanting return. Mr. Tatum's student still teach. I'm confused . I found another school here in denver ten chi wa taijutsu. Sensei mark Hansen, I believe it is genbukan. I asking which would be better in your opinion. Lary Tatum says he is only person teaching this lineage of yoshin ryu jujutsu, he said it is a complete ko ryu system with atemi, throws locks weapons grappling strategy, he said it is an aggressive style, and if had focus on multiple opponents.
The ten chi wa, I believe is genbukan ninpo taijutsu. I cant do both.
"Could've had two PhDs.." - Maybe just learn Japanese and do some actual research.
"There's no way Takamatsu sensei made it up" - Welp, case closed there huh. If you say so.
"If it was written down, it was written down, learned, studied and then the records destroyed" - Uh ok magical all knowing man who mysteriously 'knows' what happened centuries ago sans proof.
Bald assertions, random claims.. "I know" ... "I spent time in the dojos" .. lol, but never learned Japanese, can't read or communicate with genuine scholars.
"These scrolls are legitimate, these scrolls go back hundreds of years" - then why have none of the koryu associations accepted Mr Hatsumi and his group? Why did the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai refuse his request to join?
"Dr Hatsumi - a doctor.. very smart." Uh no, he is not an MD.
Igaroo and Kogaroo.. distant cousins of the Kangaroo.
"It's not in a history book... now lets look at my history book".
Reproducing the information published by the X-kan teachers does nothing to validate the history of your arts. You claim 'it's not in a history book', but the reality is the Japanese made notes of everything. Indeed, you contradict yourself by claiming initially that you've "been to Japan and seen the hundreds-of-years-old scrolls", then later claim that nothing ninjutsu was ever written down.
Ultimately your theories and claims are nebulous and not actually based in any evidence. If Mr Hatsumi had evidence supporting his claims he (and you, his students) would be an accepted part of the koryu community. He is not.
I am very curious as to why since you are obviously European that you chose an art of Asian background? Are there no European arts that resemble the art of the Shinobi. Pride is definitely a problem it seems for many of our European warriors.
I make it my own. It may have come from Japan, but I do things very much like a modern American warrior. I’m not an American playing dress up ninja. Most of what we do looks more like a modern soldier then a Japanese shinobi.
Haven't even watched the video yet, but the title makes me want to comment first. I am very sure that in today's world and especially on the internet the word FAKE is tossed about all the time. And in truth, for the most part, what it means, at least on the internet, is your ideas are not like mine so they are fake or wrong. So when I see the word fake with martial arts I either picture Frank Dux or someone who just doesn't like the style or it isn't like theirs our maybe even a direct competitor to theirs. Fake, like everything else is subjective and interpretational. In short it is nothing more than an opinion, even when it comes to crackpots like Dux, Ashida Kim and the like.
Watch the video!
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Excellent work of truth! For those of us who have trained for as long as we have and seen so many people come and go, we understand that it is not about the art, it's about the integrity of the person's heart that usually causes hateful disillusionment. And yeah, sometimes folks come across bad teachers and "Gold Dragons" (Not Golden)... for those people; I am deeply sorry the greed that exists in some people's hearts. That certainly isn't the only reason why some people leave, yet difference of perspective is NOT the same as totally disavowing the existence of an art.
When does frank dux come into play?
LOL
What the Hell is a Dim Mak?
@@kagemaru259 hilarious
I have trained in yoshin ryu, ryo shinto ryu and bujinkan. 3 different schools with 3 different lineages and the technics are very similar. That's all the proof I need.
What do you think of Frank W. Dux?
I like the movie about him. I think in his day he was a tough guy. But as far as his connection to Ninpo or Ninjutsu I’m sticking with I really like the movie bloodsport.
A thought that has been om my mind for some time... Haters has been trying to acuse Bujinkan for making up everything about ninjutsu. My question then is if a person or a group of persons get a good idea that is so good that it can bring value to the World, should they then stop their efforts in making the idea become reality, allthough the idea meets strong opposition from some people?
Nice video but, if you try your style against a Thai fighter you will get destroyed. Thai fighters never lost many many years except once with a lucky shot in from a karate master, even Bruce Lee knew that.
In reality all those soke they just sold an art with nice marketing.
Your probably right, in a ring with a professional tai fighter with his rules I would have a disadvantage. Especially now in my 50’s. But if the Tai Fighter played by his rules in my world. I might start off with a prostitute with a ton of diseases just to wear him down some, find some people to poison his food, then show the doctor report with the sexual diseases to his girlfriend or wife to mess up his personal life some. Then spread rumors I was going to throw the fight on purpose to win a large bet against myself, while everyone was trying to get my little Tai fighter healthy from the medications from my paid lady friend, and try to get him strong from the food poison, I’d also have someone else spread rumors he got the sexual diseases from a male lover while doing drugs together. With his health a mess, his body in shambles, his personal life in a very low place, everyone around him trying to figure out what’s going on, I would send him “hope you get well soon” cards. Day of the fight they find him dead behind a gay bar from a drug overdose. I would tell the media it was a terrible waste of true potential and talent, it was a terrible loss, and I would pray for his family.
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy Nice answer I liked it. 🤣😊👍.
I dunno..i think its all fairly simple .all the figjting arts in in bujinkan and genbukan,and others..are samurai fighting arts..all the other stuff . deception,poisens etc, basically all the agent commando stuff..would be classed as nin-jutsu...
To say that Takamatsu would have created Ninjutsu is like saying that John Williams made up European music history and music to sell records.
One can see similarities between Bujinkan and old Chinese styles.
Thinking of wall paintings, because some of the Chinese styles have broken lines.
That the Bujinkan wouldn't work is also a hell of a joke.
Bodyguards use it, the military, the police, and so on.
Naturally, one can find those who use other styles, but that it exists is a testament to the Bujinkan's effectiveness.
Not even Bruce Lee was able to create such an extensive style. Not to disparage Bruce Lee, but his style is simpler, in the sense that there aren't as many techniques.
Nobody wins in this debate the densho is real yes but they talking about the fact of can you use what you learned from bujinkan in a real fight? No it won’t work. I train in bujinkan for a long time. And I trained with two who brought the ninjutsu to USA. That branch was called Robert Bussey warrior international and was the only branch in the world using reality base fighting methods, that you can use to defend yourself in a real situation not bujinkan. That’s why the organization move away from bujinkan. That’s why some people are calling bujinkan a tourist trap. Sometimes people forget things.
I agree Robert Bussey took the training and Americanized it, he made it work with almost a military approach. I started training in 1985 with Ninpo so I remember him well. The material in the Bujinkan 100% works. The knowledge of the Ryu Ha are solid and work. It’s all application. I have used the material in real life many times. So have thousands of other people world wide. I agree most do not train and when I say train I mean train, not sit in a dojo or henka the shit out of stuff. People who want real skill sets make the material work, because that is who they are. Warriors and survivors. Tons of people are happy learning angles, distance, balance, flow and everything the Bujinkan has become. Personally we train to make our bodies be able to apply the knowledge. We spar, pressure test and train with many jujutsu schools and make sure we keep ourselves honest. I’m no longer emotionally attached to the organizations, out dated so called ninjutsu historic re-enactments. So I agree and disagree with you, but 100% understand your reasoning. It’s just hard to lump everyone into one box, just because they have an affiliation with an organization. Watch more of our videos. That’s all I can do is show how we think, train and apply this knowledge.
Excellent work. One of the most logical and honest of all accounts.
CAN I come to your country to learn NINJUTSU.?????
It doesn't mater . In this day and age you can be anything you wanna be .If anyone wants to be a ninja then it's up to them . Why spoil people's dreams .My mates 5 year old wanted to be a dinosaur so he got him a costume and he's happy . So that's all that matters . As long as the person is happy .
you all been bamboozled by takumatsu, , if them scrolls where real then prove it get it tested, word of mouth is just "THAT" word of mouth, until the soke gets them tested (that will never happen cough cough), , and his taijutsu style alone did not exist before the 1800s , there is no info anywhere in historic records to show togakure ryu or the other 3 ninjutsu schools as being historic ether it's really not looking good for you guys, i really feel sad for bujinkan members i really do
Let’s say your right. I believe the information in these scrolls are real. I have done them, felt the pain having them done to me. And have trained with many of the students of Takamatsu Sensei. I’m never going to be anything other then a teacher of the information to help people or beat people up with the information. I do not need any more proof then the men who have taught me. I believe in them. I know the material works, it has improved my life and I have helped dozens of other people with the knowledge. What else can you ask for as an American studying a Japanese Art?
@@UnitedStatesNinpoAcademy Exactly! Sean Askew as some good works in the area of history of our Art through family ties...
I just stopped watching this in 4 minutes. Instead of talking about the realities of the art, regardless of age, he proceeded in letting you know about his years of Ninjitsu training (Not to mention that Anthony C. practiced the same art and experienced disillusion in practicality). That, versus a real university education that Anthony C. has making him a skillful researcher. Anthony C. has spent enough of his time looking through actual scrolls and debunking myth. Takamatsu was a martial arts "master", no doubt, but what Anthony C. is trying to say is that their martial arts skills in not an actual Ninja Art, per se. Historically, these "ninjas" picked up martial skills here and there and would pass these knowledge to others. It would have been mostly jujutsu and sword arts. Just like Hollywood make you think that body-guarding is about kicking ass, not minding about the client being on his own, I'm sure the "ninja" had no time to spend on knowing a thousand moves to fight anyone. Example, for a "ninja" to have learned BJJ would have been troublesome. Did he really wanted to go to the ground, when he really needed to flee. In a quick situation, you just need to know where to hit, and where to hit FAST. Then you get out of town. No need for hand to hand combat mastery. Soldiers learn these skills a bit more now a days, but rely on their weapons mainly....and skills of escape and evasion. Anyway, they should attach the actual names of whatever art they practice, example...Bujinkan, or whatever,, but not the name Ninja to it. The 70's and 80's are part of history now. Takamatsu and Hatsumi obviously saw the $$$$ opportunity, thanks to Sho Kosugi and his Ninja Movies. Even in Japan the "ninja" stories are treated more like reading about Batman....who is compared to a Ninja......comically. I am one that was all about "ninjas" in the 80's. One experience in 1988 made me question the effectiveness of this art. I met a black belt, who had pictures of himself with Stephen Hayes and others, I showed up to his house after being invited for practice. There was another guy (student) there to practice. After a warm up, we went to his backyard to do rolls, jump a fence, then rolling, and do some stuff that you see in magazines. Then we started practicing some hand to hand techniques that were pretty interesting and exiting, for being the first time experiencing this. After that, I asked them if we were sparring. I was only a red belt with a black stripe in ITF Tae Kwon Do at that time, also a big fan of Bruce Lee, which add to the energy you bring to the whole thing.....curiously enough. Not sure if you will understand. He said Ok. I owned him. To the point that his student asked me about what I did for martial arts and asked me if I could train him. I have nothing to gain with this story. So believe it or not, I'm sure many have been through that situation. Many people that take Bujinkan, had been practicing other arts, so it is not just plain "ninjitsu" that is expressed through their fighting skills. Anthony C. is a legit martial artist and fully educated to present this. The big talker here is one of those guys that had the inspiration of this fantasy, like we all did once, but never came down from the cloud. I want any of his students fo challenge any Gracie, Machado or the likes. It would be a rude awakening. Historically, it doesn't matter how old it is, but practice that as it may be, as some rudimentary style of Japanese martial art frozen in the past. If you want some good hand to hand combat training, go to Okinawa and train with one of those masters. If you are the type that like hitting of kicking, If your thing is Japanese culture. If not there is Thai Boxing and others. I am 51 and had practiced several arts, and currently taking BJJ. I just started in 2019 and regretted not adding it to my skills years ago. If I thought I could use "Bujinkan" in real combat, I would have proceeded to study it. Funny, people talk about Aikido, and I think Aikido is very useful as a skill when attacked by several people at a time. Their circular motion is very useful, and some other techniques. As any martial art, ........one style is not the answer. You should research how they utilize distance, movement, etc......striking is not the most important. Anyone can hit or kick. Get a football player mad and after you, and test your skills against that. It hurts that after "so" many years of practicing something, you suddenly realize that you may not make the money you thought you would make as your art is discredited as what you call it to be. Nothing wrong with just tagging the name of the original school name without utilizing the word Ninja to encapsule its essence. By the way, since I am interested in the historical value of what the "ninja" were, I bought all of Anthony's books. I still keep my Hatsumi and Hayes books, but more like a treasured memory from the 80's personally. Not taking from the martial value of Hatsumi or Hayes. I'm sure they are fine martial artists, but when it comes to real, verified history about the "ninja", ....well, they still have much to prove yet.
What was the instructor name ass you kicked? Please share 😆
Great Video Sensei!!!
This is one vid to much bujinkan is real because you can see under Togakure ryu sokes That takamatsu was trained by Toda Shinryuken Masamitsu a great person from the toad family witch had the Togakure ryu for 9 generations in the ryu are Togakure-ryū ninpō
Gyokko-ryū koshi jutsu
Kukishinden-ryū happōhikenjutsu
Shinden Fudo-ryū daken taijutsu
Gyokushin-ryū ninpō
Koto-ryū koppō jutsu
Takagi-yoshin-ryū jutaijutsu
Gikan-ryū koppō jutsu
Kumogakure-ryū ninpō
Pleas don’t do the wrong trust your Heat and dont trust people who says the wrong...Pleas 🙏
I believe that many people who do not know how sciences that study the past such as history and archaeology work, do not understand how academics in these fields see the past. It is widely accepted by these scholars (not all of them of course) that the past is a place that we can never get to know fully. Even the things we tend to think that we know about the past must be examined again and again because they might be a perception of the past that is different from the truth or only a small part of the whole picture. There are a lot of things that are lost throughout history that perhaps we will never get the chance to learn about. To be fair there are also academics who tend to follow this way of thinking. This "I read so I know stuff" way of thinking. But even when following the academic way of thinking, in this specific scenario there is a "problem". Martial arts are not an academic field. You can maybe learn things about martial arts from specific books, but none of those is your true teacher. In my opinion it is an experience outside the pages of a book or the usual online "wars" about something being fake or real.
Also something that a lot of people do not understand sometimes is that not everything has to be about effectiveness in a real situation. Not everything has to be about a violent encounter. Some people do martial arts just because they enjoy it. Maybe after a difficult day at work is what they chose to relax and calm their mind. Maybe some people don't need to fight in a cage to be fierce warriors in their everyday lives.
I have been a bujinkan student for some years and while at the beginning I was confused and I was not sure what I was doing, with time it became an experience so personal that words will turn it into something poor. I believe dr Hatsumi said it in the best way possible. " What I want you to do is just take it as it is. Don't think too much. If you get involved with thinking about it, the whole thing gets lost or loses its purity. Don't think during practice - DO! The more you think, the further from the truth of budo you get: Budo is NOT an academic subject!"
This is better than a movie.
Thanks. Thank you.
All the scrolls to the togakure ryuu is inside the school ? Bugikan is made up by hatsumi san. it was passed down by word of mouth ? That's not good enough for me. It's only one hundred years old. Hatsumi's father was a judoka. That's why hatsumi studied judo . notice the word con, at the end of the word.? I also want to let you know that the koka ryu system is not dead!! I am koka ryu the only true art because iga was a samurai strong hold. No ninja . just samurai ! That's what takamatsu was teaching judo/jujitsu. all your techniques are from karate/chunfa. which in my opinion is also a good art. all your grand masters are not real. The ryu was passed down by takamatsus teacher .when it was known as the kamakure shoganite school of exlance. The samurai started. Up in 6 century and their swords weren't curved they where straight blades. learn your history people? Don't listen to these geomancers. and fakes , and mcdojo's.all there teaching is karate and some samakama crap. because they don't know the truth ? or what transpired between takamatsu and his teacher many decades ago??
Nice VHS tape collection, sir!!!
Its a fake sir
What part?
@@righteousshadowsdojopt.3979 everything! Hand to hand combat isn’t combat proofing
@@Natty_arturo what style do you recommend?
@@Natty_arturo?exactly.
The modern connotation of "fake" seems to be measured by what wins at competitions where rules are set to prevent lethality while drawing the most revenue by entertainment. When we look at any practice by seeing it's "need" at the time it was developed , we can see where the merits of effectiveness are. Adaptation is the ultimate skill that keeps any species alive. Embracing this above all preservations is to embrace the tradition of life itself. Necessity is the mother of invention. If I can offer any wisdom I've come to understanding about this stuff, this is of most importance.
I've been in martial arts 25 year's, I hold official grades in karate, taekwondo and kickboxing and have trained a few other styles without grading, there was a bujinkan club near me but I never got round to attending a class, now for me the reason's the bujinkkan styles are becoming the joke of the Internet are very obvious, now I can quite happily accept the information, is genuine historical etc...etc.. ( couldn't careless about lineage or tradition, I care about effectivness).I mean the information in aikido is legitimate but it's not being trained effectively, in my opinion bujinkan is the same, combine that with no free sparring, 15 degree blackbelt's, frauds like ashida kim and the Hollywood ninja popularisation oh an as well as the footage of 15 dan ninjutsu guy sparring a brown belt in something with the bokkon and getting beat, is it really all that surprising???
I agree, with everything. But there is a few of us who train with real combat in mind. Just have to search them out.
Excellent video and great information. I trained for 10 years in the Bujinkan in the 80's and 90's. I think the bad rap comes from alot of what you talk about. Primarily that there is no evidence that Toda Sensei existed. Nothing written, no pictures, etc. So you are taking the word of Takamatsu and Hatsumi. Second, and more importantly is the Ninja claim itself. Not that the arts that comprise the Bujinkan are fake. As you say yourself, you have not trained in Kumogakure or Gyokushin ryu. From my understanding, very little if anything has ever been taught from these schools. And there really isn't much from Togakure taught either. The bulk of the curriculum in bujinkan comes from non ninja schools like Kukishin, Takagi Yoshin Ryu and Shinden Fudo Ryu. in other words, there are no real modern ninjas. you have studied and learned samurai and other japanese jujutsu traditions.
Righteous Shadows Dojo I must be obtuse. Enlighten me. What am I missing?
Righteous Shadows Dojo it’s nice to see that the same lines are being used today as was in the 80’s. However, this entire video is devoted to history and authenticity of the lineage so I’m sorry but “shut up and train”;doesn’t cut it. Can you address my comments or not?
@Righteous Shadows Dojo Actually, you didn't. But your lack of an answer is answer enough. Good luck with your training.
Gyokko Ryu and Koto Ryu are if not ninja ryu at least the brother arts of the ninja ryus. There is good evidence that the masters of these two ryus at LEAST trained with main stream Ninja school masters. In the end does it really matter? What saves your life it was matters and I know through personal experience on the street that this works.
@@DouglasEKnappMSAOM I agree. In the end, if you enjoy the art and believe it works, more power to you. that's most important. I think the criticism Hatsumi receives mostly is that built an organization based on being the "the last ninja school" and got very rich while not having any evidence of its authenticity. Kumogakure and Gyokushin Ryu's have never been publicly taught. And only very little and frankly archaic material has been shown from Togakure Ryu. Certainly not enough where anyone today can claim they are learning Ninjutsu.
es fake
If they lied to you how come you and your chain of teachers and students know so many techniques not found in any other jujutsu or Japanese combat system? Are they gonna say takamatsu himself invented hundred of years of combat development? Same happened in okinawan karate, there's no book today to explain ancient techniques applictions, that's the price of secrecy!!! It's not hard to understand the lack of history when these masters had the need of secrecy, it meant life or death!!!!!! Man I wish you had that book for sale?!!
What can you charge for your life’s work? The students who take the time to study with me and finish the training will get a copy for free.