Azrael is a Legion Master. He was a good enough combatant to kill Kharn and a substantial enough commander to defeat Abaddon AND Huron's forces during that same battle. He also didn't give an inch to the Grey Knights when they made demands for intelligence. That's a man that holds it together.
@@Archon3960, the ones that "fell" were Calibanites that were raised as being part of The Order, never having been with the 1st Legion. This is very clearly indicated in "Angels of Caliban".
@@kingbaldwiniv5409 Yeah, same as with the Death Guard, but less polarized. But given how spergy Post-Heresy Dark Angels act, Azrael could very well do stupid crap when hearing about the Fallen. (Must be awkward when modern DA trip on something. xD)
@@nella9115 , he certainly didn't beat Kharn in a stand-up fight, but Kharn didn't collect any skull for the Skull Throne either. You are overstating Kharn's performance.
Nah Luther himself admits he couldn't hope to take on a Astartes in a normal fight and since the blessings of chaos are gone his only remainig strength is his charisma
Nahhhh cypher thought he was slick, got caught slipping. AZ set him up and took the lions sword. Luther pissed sends the fallen legion. AZ back on the rock gives the sword to it's rightful owner.
Logically, he had to have realized: This is a trap. This duel is meant to either remove me from the board or distract me. Kharn is a beat stick. A warrior. He is not a general, not a tactician. Engaging him in a brawl to the death is exactly what was wanted. The only way to win, was not to play.
Spoiler alert: you were right. It was the machination of a Tzeentchian daemon, and as a way of saying "sorry" for cutting their duel short, Azrael left the daemon to the mercy of Kharn after making his escape.
I had a suspicion this was the case. I was gonna ask if he is in the same realm as Lucius with regards to being brought back, and with that being the case Azrael would essentially need a Grey Knight ( or equivalent scale librarian) or he needs the Emperor's sword. The sad thing is I wonder what would happen to Kharn is he was given release from the pain of the nails?
Trials of Azrael is pretty dope, SPOILERS: . . . . . not only Azrael fends off kharne, but he even outsmarts a tzeneech daemon twice, uses kharne to kill the daemon, and in the end, manages to save a mechanicus girl stranded on the abandoned chaos ship. BTW we can read his inner monologue when he is fighting kharne, azrael is tempted to give his life to rid the galaxy of kharne, but realizes that he has a greater responsibility, and decides against it, he made the right choice imho.
Off topic but anybody realize that korne seems to have some kinda hand with the angels(dark and blood) pride is a sin and can lead to a khorne while black rage also is a khorne thing)
Azrael made the right choice. When the Lion comes back, he'll confirm that the Dark Angels are better off with their Supreme Grand Master alive for the next phases
@@coreyhodge1798 that’s doesn’t refute the fact that they’re all old models that nobody in 2022 is going to buy. They’d look out of place in a lot of peoples sets. Same can be said for the other chapters though. Poor white scars
Kinda Yes. It was the Demon, that set the trap for Azrael. Pitting him against the deadliest force It could think of; Kharn. By Using its true name, Azrael paralyses it, leaving it for Kharns mercy. He does not have any mercy.....
@@ryanhall4659 as Rho mentioned. The main story is in Pandorax and Azrael vs Kharn is in "Trials of Azrael" which is a short additional story. Both on audible, both by CZ Dunn. Both Top Tier.
@@Dreadbringer Yes but he was last seen imprisoned by the dark lords who knows what became of him. When it comes to brainwashing the dark angels are even better the alpha legion
Thats probable due to his precognition rather than his skill at arms. In Prince of Crows he remarks how easy it is to kill his opponents because time is a bit slowed down for him due to his psychic powers and he basically knows their moves before they make them. It’s not the same thing as being a skilled swordsman. At least that’s how I understood it
Yes he’s a Nightlord… and? And I didn’t say best swordsman or fighter. I said “one of the most dangerous”. And I don’t see why his precognitive abilities would discount him as far as his prowess. Plus didn’t his psychic abilities only fully awaken until around the time of the Unremembered Empire? Could be wrong but I thought that was the case. Erebus was also supposed to be an incredibly skilled fighter know throughout the legions as well.
The biggest tragedies in the handling of the Dark Angels. 1. They get kind of a bad representation in a lot of the books, resulting in a lot of “but… why” moments that don’t seem in character. 2. The fact that, but for a banner, the Azrael model could easily be confused with a watcher model.
The only space marine chapter I can stand are the white scars they're Chad's, but I still read a shit ton of the horus heresy books. The only books that I hated were descent of the angels and the fallen angels. I hate the space wolves but Prospero burns was a great book. Fulgrim was fun. The first heretic great. But those books made me despise the dark angels even more. The tragedy is that those larpers are a legion
@@stevensanders6696 I’m not sure it’s going to matter going forward. It seems like they are blurring the lines. I’m betting they downplay the divide between Primaris and First Born until everyone just kinda forgets or comes to terms and lets it go. I’m not sure I even care if they do Primaris him on the table. I tend to like the new sculpts quite a lot, so I’m willing to deal with it just to get the better quality plastic model.
@@scottym.9077 I don't like the trend that GW keeps going with of "if we just make all these beloved characters primaris, they'll HAVE to like the primaris lore even though we can only make it make sense with waves of retcons"
@@Monkotzoo what is the beef with so many people and Descent of Angels? It primarily shows the years before the legion came to Caliban, and the crusade against the Great Beasts
Kahn The Betrayer is stronger than when he fought Sigusmund and even then, a total paradigm shift by the Black Templar and the Black Sword were needed to defeat him. It should be surprising when anyone who is not a named Custodian or above can hold his own against Kahn.
Thanks Rho, this was great listening to the story regarding Azrael. Bringing in the Lion every now and then helps make it more interesting. The Dark Angels are my favorite faction in 40k. I just wish GW would hurry up and give us a 40k Lion El'Jonson sculpt and also have him wake up in the books. Having him and RG unite to destroy one of there fallen brothers would be awesome. Merry Christmas Rho
This is why I think imperium nihilus should be heavily tied to a fight between the dark angels and World eaters seeing as khorne may be getting attention in the future, knight's vs berserkers would be an interesting match that we haven't seen often in 40k
I always love how the unforgiven just have this yeah we will be "chapters" until we deem it unworthy for our attention. And the high Lords don't like making successor chapters for dark angels because of their legion like tendencies
It's no secret Guilliman considered reforming the legions he effectivly had a primaris one during the indomitus crusade however as a statesman he realised as the crusade wound down he would have to break them up to prevent civil unrest within the imperium.
That book was my favorite 40k book of all time. I believe he talks to another big named grey knight. And they spoke as if they where friends. With Azrael messing with him a bit. Then when you think the other main characters is about to meet her end. Azrael shows up. Reminding the reader that the first isn’t this heartless chapter everyone memes it to be
Chaos closes the rift and hides in the warp forever. Kairos can be heard saying "Our bad guys" before the last portal closes for good. The warp fades from memory. Sometimes the odd ship goes missing, but that was probably, definitely just ork pirates. Khorne goes to rehab and gets over his addiction to blood, now only drawing power from the rage someone feels when they step on a lego. Tzeentch becomes the god of Chess and shitposting. Slaanesh only gets tribute whenever a pair of middle class citizens on a civilized world try a position other than missionary. As for Nurgle, the yearly booster shots are a bit of annoyance, but the local Arbites are quick to remind the people that zombies used to be a thing. Without the threat of chaos around, the Necrons and Imperium turn their attention to the Tyranids. Turns out, no, those weren't "just scout fleets", that was it. The Orks remain a thorn in everyone's (the imperium's) side, but they don't really notice anything different. Life is good.
Azrael did the right thing. After I read Pandorax Draigo was in command just as well as Azrael but they both at the time Agreed Azrael would give the final orders and Draigo as Council. If Draigo took over entirely he would have made some bad decisions leading up to the final confrontation.
Probably my fav moment from trials of Azrael: "Of course... That ridiculous helmet you wear should have given you away" I imagine Kharn rolling his eyes while saying that... And could someone tell him to look at his own helmet... I like my Life and Head as they are thank you...
I am really happy, that you are back to talk about excerpts. And It is one of my farvorite ones at that. Pandorax is a masterclass. It does Abaddon, Huron Blackheart, Kaldor Drago and Azrael justice in one book.
Azrael made the right choice as he is without doubt the greatest chapter master in 40K. Now we just need the return of the Lion, it's going to be EPIC!
Every chapter has there best. Every chapter has its strengths. Every commander a different fight for there learning of tactics.each chapter master is there because they are the best of the best.each chapter master is equal as there primach ;-) without the super primarch strength.So daunta is the best blood angel primarch az is the best dark angel exex. 🍻. They are only the strongest United separated they are no stronger than the next
As a Dark Angel fan and player I obviously love Azrael but before I heard the audiobook with this scene I never would have put him as such a good duelist. I am happy he wasn't better than Kharn as that beast of a man deserves to crush most. However to know Azrael can hold his own so well and even have a chance to take a possible killing blow as the cost of his own life on such a powerful killer is really something to be proud of. I'm not sure if any other current Chapter Masters have went up against Kharn but to know my favorite Chapter Master did and did so well is amazing. Also in the Pandorax book the back and forth jabs betweeb the Grey Knights Grand Master and Azrael, mocking each others titles since they are so similar was hilarious. That whole book was absolutely amazing. Probably my favorite book outside of the HH.
Azrael is really a remarkeable leader and fits perfect to the unruly dark angels lore. For me there is only one other character of the dark angels, besides the lion, who is in my eyes more honorable than or maybe on the same level as Azrael and thats Corswain. Both show perfect dedication to the lion and the chapter by not only leading the first chapter but fighting alongside their brethren.
I replayed this battle with my buddies on tabletop. It pretty much came down to whoever got to attack first. Of course dice rolls change many thi gs but on the fights we rolled simular the attacker pretty much won everytime
This is what the Lions of Caliban look like: the Lions of Caliban are a mutant Lion-Wolf hybrid, right? (There are medieval and renaissance heraldic arts of the Lion like a Wolf)
The more I hear of this lore the more I’m enjoying it… GW can suck a bag of D’s, it’s too bad they don’t have a CEO that understands profitable business and customer satisfaction. They will never get another penny out of me. You are a interesting story teller I would like to know more about the Man Himself…. Wolf Lord Rho
A long term question I have what role will Azrael have when the lion returns? When gulliman returned a similar question was asked regarding Manius Calgar but if I remember correctly the writers of the black library found a solution that was mentioned during the plague wars series. To my memory Calgar is still lord of Ultramar and chapter master which makes sense seeing that now Gulliman is imperial regent his concerns take him far from the 500 worlds and he can effectually command other chapters than just the ultra marines. Back to the dark angels the lion is a different brother than gulliman a warrior a no nonsense general but importantly he’s a knight of Caliban. most likely he will formally Duel Azrael Belihal and the other grandmasters of the unforgiven as was done during the great crusade to the lion loyalty is earned not just given especially from his gene sons. But the question remains what will Azraels role be afterwards. The lion will take command as his right so Azrael is no longer chapter master he could serve as the lions second in command/advisor but after centuries of being the supreme grandmaster the head of the inner circle a proud astartes like Azrael might feel out of place in the era of primarchs returning. The lion would never have been in favor of the breaking of his legion after the heresy so upon his return he might reforge the 1st legion proper by merging the unforgiven chapters that might annoy some of the grand masters who have been used to some semblance of independence though I’m in favor of this what is most likely to happen is the lion will simply command the unforgiven chapters while remaining separate therefore Azrael remains chapter master but under the lions command (because on table top there are people who have a unforgiven army and will be mad if their dark angels successor chapter is shut removed by GW wants to do is to piss off the customer base further. Which I can kind of understand but at the same time compared to other successors like the Black Templar’s Flesh Tearers non of the unforgiven successor chapters are really popular or talked about as much as the dark angels proper so some might bicker but not a lot of GW decides for 10th edition to bring back the dark angels legion back in black.
Yeah i am surpised Azrael gone toe to toe with Khan, cause his model is around 40,000 years old, he predates the internets. GW not updating his model is far beyond the utmost Heresy.
Azrael : _"I am Azrael, Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels."_ Kharn (totally not impressed): *_"Of course, that ridiculous helmet should have given you away."_* (Glad to see Kharn did not loose his banter with all this "character development". XD)
It makes sence that Azreal isn't seen as one of the greatest fighters in the imperium vecause a dark angel seeks no personal glory only to see their duty done. The lion cares not for the thoughts of the sheep.
I can't wait for I, Cato Sicarius, master of the watch, knight champion of Macragge, grand duke of Talassar, high suzerain of Ultramar, former captain of the famed second company, captain of the victrix guard, PHD, master chef, favorite son of Guilliman, bestest Ultramarine, pokemon master week.
We need chapter master Tu'shan kicking the Marines malevolent around. Hands down one of the best moments in the lore. Pimp smacked him so hard korn felt it! Schteentch in the side like Daaaaaaamn!
Aside from Dante, I dont think there is a single chapter master that comes close to Azrael's level of badassery and complete mastery in everything he does.
I'm not sure but... isn't kharn able to be revive if he dies ? or was that just a one time thing during the siege of terra ? because if he's still able to ressurect after beeing killed then yes Azrael has clearly done the right choice ^^
I was re-watching this when I realized that Azraels' death against Luther will probably be the thing that wakes The Lion. Ya can't have two Supreme Grand Masters after all.
Every time I see the artwork of the Dark Angels with the hood (the one in the beginning) I just think of a Dark Angel Space Marine with long lightbrown/dirty blond hair lol
I really liked that it was the same planet Captain Atticus and some other shattered legion forces landed during the Damnation of Phytos. Even one of the big cities was called Attica when I remember correctly.
At the twilight of the 41's millénium, the Unforgiven could not survive without the Lord of Angels. Azrael didn't just Jose to live to fight a grater threat, he did so to fight another day. And most importantly, he did so to live
I believe among all the Chapter Masters Azrael and Dante are the best all around as far as commanders, weapon and ballistic skills. I think Azrael is only behind Dante when it comes to leadership and most of that is based off of total experience. And as far as melee and ballistic skills amongst chapter masters I believe he's up in there in both categories amongst all Astartes. If Logan Grimnar is the most badass melee fighter, there aren't too many more Space Marines that are better than Azrael in melee maybe he's top 6-10, and as for ballistic skill he seems to wield a fairly large combi-plasma one handed, there's artwork of him aiming it as such. Again he might not be the best in that aspect but I'd say he's most likely among the best among Chapter Masters/Captains/Wolf Lords etc. According to lore he also had some great fortitude vs psykers.
In chess, one of the few times you won't trade up is when the enemy has a large piece advantage. Chaos arguably has a massive peice advantage lol. That being said, I don't know if Azriel is worth more to the Imperium than Kharn is to Chaos. I think I would make the trade for anything that kills living saints. Assuming it's something that stays dead when you kill it.
To be fair, Celestine is destined (irl that is) to die to any named character that she has a close fight with. Her ability to resurrect makes it easy to get a conclusion to the fight without permanent losses for either side.
Great video. I loved that audio book, Trials of Azrael. I have listened to it many times. Azrael is brilliant. He makes the rational correct choice. Even if he kills Kharn, the Blood God would just bring him back anyway. Azrael's sacrifice wouldn't be worth it. Throughout the story he is calm and calculating. He even manages to turn the tables on his true assailant.
C.Z. Dunn is really under appreciated as a writer for Black Library. There is very few works of his that I do not like, and if there is it is not even a dislike but more of a "meh" moment. So for me his books are ranked as its either "ok" or "YES!!!!"
What if Khan is like Lucus "the eternal," (forgive the spelling), in that whoever kills gim becomes him. Not only that, what if any chaos champion at Khans' level is like that but it's never risen to level of "public knowledge" within the 40k universe at large, that this is a reality of how deep the taint of chaos goes. Either that or it's that Khorne, can't afford to lose his 1st berserker, unless he loses power to the other chaos gods by losing him and not "having his replacement on deck," given that he's been around since the heresy.
Azrael and the first deserve respect again the moment they come clean with their history, until then, then should be viewed with barely withhold suspicion and distrust.
No they would be short, all except Dante because he is too important and Kharn is too popular. Gabriel Seth wouldn't last long enough for Kharn to really notice, same with several other chapter masters.
I think Seth’s rage would would be a total surprise to Kharn, he is like a loyalist berserker. Kharn would expect a chapter master to be an expert swordsman and a duellist, Seth is an expert fighter in every sense, I certainly wouldn’t underate him against the betrayer
@@cj4857 my guy, Kharn killed a Flesh Tearer with a Gladius to the temple. Kharn has fought Abaddon with all of Abaddon's gifts as a new warmaster of chaos. Kharn would wipe the floor with Seth
Not to sound entitled to pick a topic for you but if you are doing Heroes of the Imperium perhaps cover some of the Guard characters those men do the vast majority of the fighting and dying for the imperium and get largely seen as a punchline in the fandom
He made the right call. Who's to say that strike would have killed his enemy? Maybe his opponent is able to survive the strike yet the strike he received in return ends his life. There will be opportunities in the future as long as you are alive to see that future.
I think there will be a massive battle between the assembled dark angels chapters and the fallen in which azrael will die heroically, the dark angels will be in disarray but then the lion returns and leads them to victory over the fallen but in the process the knowledge of the fallen will be known to the other chapters. This will leave the dark angels lost and needing to find a new identity which they will under the Lion in the similar way to how they did in the great crusade
For me to put it to the verry bottomline in his decision in the fight against the betrayer as a warrior: it was the wrong decision as a leader: it was the right decision
I think he also made the right choice and not sacrificing himself to kill Kharn the betrayer because of the simple fact Kharn has died before and they just brought him back to life
In listening to the the trials of Azreal I have a different perspective of the dual with Kharn as I believe Azreal was lucky to live at all Kharn may be a berserker but he is a skilled dualist and feints are a real thing so yes Azreal made the correct choice
Honestly I’m not surprised the dark angels fighting style is based on the spiral of the order but more importantly he leads the first legion in all but name and space marines do not bow to anyone that is weak I doubt Dante would have done as well Ragnar Blackmane maybe it speaks volumes about the loyalty of the dark angels to put the bigger mission as a whole ahead of killing on chaos space marine no matter who it is
Isn't Kharn the champion of Khorne? Killing him would only mean he be resurrected immediately or eventually. Azrael did make the right decision, no doubt.
Like his Primarch, Azrael is a true strategist. Opting for the bigger picture and leaving Kharn a scar to remember him by was the right choice given the circumstance. Abbadon is the bigger threat and where Azrael needed to be to lead the Deathwing. We are the first! Nice vid Rho ;)
Winning the war is always more important than winning the battle, unless the battle at hand is the one that wins the war. Azrael +100 points of respect. As Dark Angels characters go i always found him to be one of the more boring ones, until now.
Azrael is a Legion Master.
He was a good enough combatant to kill Kharn and a substantial enough commander to defeat Abaddon AND Huron's forces during that same battle.
He also didn't give an inch to the Grey Knights when they made demands for intelligence.
That's a man that holds it together.
You know, as long as none one mentions the Fall... _them._
@@Archon3960, the ones that "fell" were Calibanites that were raised as being part of The Order, never having been with the 1st Legion.
This is very clearly indicated in "Angels of Caliban".
@@kingbaldwiniv5409
Yeah, same as with the Death Guard, but less polarized.
But given how spergy Post-Heresy Dark Angels act, Azrael could very well do stupid crap when hearing about the Fallen.
(Must be awkward when modern DA trip on something. xD)
He got his arse well and truly kicked by kharn
@@nella9115 , he certainly didn't beat Kharn in a stand-up fight, but Kharn didn't collect any skull for the Skull Throne either.
You are overstating Kharn's performance.
Yeah, Vraks says otherwise.
Grand Master Azrael VS Luther thats a fight that has to come at some point, with The Fallen gathering in the galactic north it could be soon!
@Space Vatnik But The Fallen are just tools of The WarMaster now and only Abaddon wants Abaddon to succeed
@Space Vatnik fallen wouldnt be so intresting without DA they would be just another traitor warband
Nah Luther himself admits he couldn't hope to take on a Astartes in a normal fight and since the blessings of chaos are gone his only remainig strength is his charisma
Nahhhh cypher thought he was slick, got caught slipping. AZ set him up and took the lions sword. Luther pissed sends the fallen legion. AZ back on the rock gives the sword to it's rightful owner.
Our brothers fighting eachother saddens me to no end. I'm excited to see my brothers of the first take more spotlight soon.
Logically, he had to have realized:
This is a trap. This duel is meant to either remove me from the board or distract me.
Kharn is a beat stick. A warrior.
He is not a general, not a tactician.
Engaging him in a brawl to the death is exactly what was wanted.
The only way to win, was not to play.
if i remmber correctly that's pretty much his thought process :D
@@wizzolo I'll have to download it. Seems interesting.
Spoiler alert: you were right.
It was the machination of a Tzeentchian daemon, and as a way of saying "sorry" for cutting their duel short, Azrael left the daemon to the mercy of Kharn after making his escape.
Kharn has been resurrected several times already by Khorne, so killing him and dying in the process would have been the wrong move.
Once.
@@kelman727 once is more then 0 for any dark angel lol!
@@Scottec1425 once is several times more than 0 for a dark angel.
I had a suspicion this was the case. I was gonna ask if he is in the same realm as Lucius with regards to being brought back, and with that being the case Azrael would essentially need a Grey Knight ( or equivalent scale librarian) or he needs the Emperor's sword. The sad thing is I wonder what would happen to Kharn is he was given release from the pain of the nails?
Khârn has only died once to my knowledge. It's not something he can count on like Lucius
Trials of Azrael is pretty dope,
SPOILERS:
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not only Azrael fends off kharne, but he even outsmarts a tzeneech daemon twice, uses kharne to kill the daemon, and in the end, manages to save a mechanicus girl stranded on the abandoned chaos ship.
BTW we can read his inner monologue when he is fighting kharne, azrael is tempted to give his life to rid the galaxy of kharne, but realizes that he has a greater responsibility, and decides against it, he made the right choice imho.
Off topic but anybody realize that korne seems to have some kinda hand with the angels(dark and blood) pride is a sin and can lead to a khorne while black rage also is a khorne thing)
Azreal is a boss in this story. He totally outsmarted that demon and used Kharn to eliminate it. Great story.
Azrael made the right choice. When the Lion comes back, he'll confirm that the Dark Angels are better off with their Supreme Grand Master alive for the next phases
He's still gonna scold them hard for the Fallen though. 🤔
Now we'll see.
Azrael needs a new model as of a decade ago. It seems GW aren't terribly fond of the Dark Angels.
Literally have by far the most unique rules/units of all Astartes chapters
@@coreyhodge1798 that’s doesn’t refute the fact that they’re all old models that nobody in 2022 is going to buy. They’d look out of place in a lot of peoples sets. Same can be said for the other chapters though. Poor white scars
Didn't Azrael beat a greater demon of tzeentch shortly after his duel with kharn and leave said demon wounded for kharn to finish off?
Kinda Yes. It was the Demon, that set the trap for Azrael. Pitting him against the deadliest force It could think of; Kharn. By Using its true name, Azrael paralyses it, leaving it for Kharns mercy. He does not have any mercy.....
Yea he bound it with its true name and left it for Kharn to mutilate 🤣👍
10/10 writer who ever thought of that
Which book?
@@ryanhall4659 as Rho mentioned. The main story is in Pandorax and Azrael vs Kharn is in "Trials of Azrael" which is a short additional story. Both on audible, both by CZ Dunn. Both Top Tier.
Sevatar was also known to be one of most dangerous Space Marines of the legions and the only one to fight Sigismund to a draw.
Thats a nightlord
@@Dreadbringer Yes but he was last seen imprisoned by the dark lords who knows what became of him. When it comes to brainwashing the dark angels are even better the alpha legion
Thats probable due to his precognition rather than his skill at arms. In Prince of Crows he remarks how easy it is to kill his opponents because time is a bit slowed down for him due to his psychic powers and he basically knows their moves before they make them. It’s not the same thing as being a skilled swordsman. At least that’s how I understood it
Yes he’s a Nightlord… and?
And I didn’t say best swordsman or fighter. I said “one of the most dangerous”.
And I don’t see why his precognitive abilities would discount him as far as his prowess. Plus didn’t his psychic abilities only fully awaken until around the time of the Unremembered Empire? Could be wrong but I thought that was the case.
Erebus was also supposed to be an incredibly skilled fighter know throughout the legions as well.
@@Colin13ify and he got beaten by pre chaos kharn 10 secs flat
The biggest tragedies in the handling of the Dark Angels.
1. They get kind of a bad representation in a lot of the books, resulting in a lot of “but… why” moments that don’t seem in character.
2. The fact that, but for a banner, the Azrael model could easily be confused with a watcher model.
Azrael needs a new model but I know if they do that they're gonna primaris him
The only space marine chapter I can stand are the white scars they're Chad's, but I still read a shit ton of the horus heresy books. The only books that I hated were descent of the angels and the fallen angels. I hate the space wolves but Prospero burns was a great book. Fulgrim was fun. The first heretic great. But those books made me despise the dark angels even more. The tragedy is that those larpers are a legion
@@stevensanders6696 I’m not sure it’s going to matter going forward. It seems like they are blurring the lines. I’m betting they downplay the divide between Primaris and First Born until everyone just kinda forgets or comes to terms and lets it go. I’m not sure I even care if they do Primaris him on the table. I tend to like the new sculpts quite a lot, so I’m willing to deal with it just to get the better quality plastic model.
@@scottym.9077 I don't like the trend that GW keeps going with of "if we just make all these beloved characters primaris, they'll HAVE to like the primaris lore even though we can only make it make sense with waves of retcons"
@@Monkotzoo what is the beef with so many people and Descent of Angels? It primarily shows the years before the legion came to Caliban, and the crusade against the Great Beasts
Kahn The Betrayer is stronger than when he fought Sigusmund and even then, a total paradigm shift by the Black Templar and the Black Sword were needed to defeat him. It should be surprising when anyone who is not a named Custodian or above can hold his own against Kahn.
KHAAAAAN!!
Thanks Rho, this was great listening to the story regarding Azrael. Bringing in the Lion every now and then helps make it more interesting. The Dark Angels are my favorite faction in 40k. I just wish GW would hurry up and give us a 40k Lion El'Jonson sculpt and also have him wake up in the books. Having him and RG unite to destroy one of there fallen brothers would be awesome.
Merry Christmas Rho
This is why I think imperium nihilus should be heavily tied to a fight between the dark angels and World eaters seeing as khorne may be getting attention in the future, knight's vs berserkers would be an interesting match that we haven't seen often in 40k
Make it a twist that lion leads the order 666 and leads the HOLY crusader (knightly order) against the black crusaders
I always love how the unforgiven just have this yeah we will be "chapters" until we deem it unworthy for our attention. And the high Lords don't like making successor chapters for dark angels because of their legion like tendencies
Well the high lords are irrelevant now and it has been hinted that Guilliman is thinking of reforming the Legions
What do you mean by this? I don’t fully know the lore or stories of the DA
@@Ghostpanzer Guilliman killed the high lords after they attempted a coup against him. Rho covered it in a previous video.
It's no secret Guilliman considered reforming the legions he effectivly had a primaris one during the indomitus crusade however as a statesman he realised as the crusade wound down he would have to break them up to prevent civil unrest within the imperium.
That book was my favorite 40k book of all time. I believe he talks to another big named grey knight. And they spoke as if they where friends. With Azrael messing with him a bit. Then when you think the other main characters is about to meet her end. Azrael shows up. Reminding the reader that the first isn’t this heartless chapter everyone memes it to be
Oh they are heartless, but not honorless.
Supreme grand master kaldor Draigo is the Grey Knight you speak of however not sure if he was just a grand master then.
Wishing you a Merry Christmas when it comes, Rho! Looking forward to this series!
Next video could be: "What if all the loyal primarchs returned at the same time?"
"that was one hell of a Christmas party"
Chaos closes the rift and hides in the warp forever. Kairos can be heard saying "Our bad guys" before the last portal closes for good.
The warp fades from memory. Sometimes the odd ship goes missing, but that was probably, definitely just ork pirates. Khorne goes to rehab and gets over his addiction to blood, now only drawing power from the rage someone feels when they step on a lego. Tzeentch becomes the god of Chess and shitposting. Slaanesh only gets tribute whenever a pair of middle class citizens on a civilized world try a position other than missionary. As for Nurgle, the yearly booster shots are a bit of annoyance, but the local Arbites are quick to remind the people that zombies used to be a thing.
Without the threat of chaos around, the Necrons and Imperium turn their attention to the Tyranids. Turns out, no, those weren't "just scout fleets", that was it. The Orks remain a thorn in everyone's (the imperium's) side, but they don't really notice anything different. Life is good.
I am someone simple, I see Azrael, I like the video
Azrael did the right thing. After I read Pandorax Draigo was in command just as well as Azrael but they both at the time Agreed Azrael would give the final orders and Draigo as Council. If Draigo took over entirely he would have made some bad decisions leading up to the final confrontation.
hope you will tell us something about Tu'Shan, that would be awesome! Great video, like allways!
Probably my fav moment from trials of Azrael:
"Of course... That ridiculous helmet you wear should have given you away"
I imagine Kharn rolling his eyes while saying that...
And could someone tell him to look at his own helmet...
I like my Life and Head as they are thank you...
Azrael is the greatest duelist among modern astartes.
Molec is definitely up there. I would have difficulty picking Azrael over Moloc and vice versa
i seem to remember Belial to be considered the strongest DA swordman.
@@wizzolo best swordsman yes but not the best fighter if that makes since
@@wizzolo fact
Gabriel Seth!
I am really happy, that you are back to talk about excerpts. And It is one of my farvorite ones at that. Pandorax is a masterclass. It does Abaddon, Huron Blackheart, Kaldor Drago and Azrael justice in one book.
Azrael made the right choice as he is without doubt the greatest chapter master in 40K. Now we just need the return of the Lion, it's going to be EPIC!
Not to take away anything from Azrael, but I'd argue that title would go to Dante if anything.
I’m with the other guy Dante is probably the best chapter master
Every chapter has there best. Every chapter has its strengths. Every commander a different fight for there learning of tactics.each chapter master is there because they are the best of the best.each chapter master is equal as there primach ;-) without the super primarch strength.So daunta is the best blood angel primarch az is the best dark angel exex. 🍻. They are only the strongest United separated they are no stronger than the next
Nah Dante is over rated, he's old and wants die, what's he going to do - come after us with his zimmer fame?
@@gavrielc.929 were talking about his career. He is legendary status for sure.the battles and tactics he has won.
Totally thought you were going to say "Mantle of Responsibility" and I was thinking well there is a crossover and a half.
Fingers crossed for Tyberos
As a Dark Angel fan and player I obviously love Azrael but before I heard the audiobook with this scene I never would have put him as such a good duelist.
I am happy he wasn't better than Kharn as that beast of a man deserves to crush most. However to know Azrael can hold his own so well and even have a chance to take a possible killing blow as the cost of his own life on such a powerful killer is really something to be proud of.
I'm not sure if any other current Chapter Masters have went up against Kharn but to know my favorite Chapter Master did and did so well is amazing.
Also in the Pandorax book the back and forth jabs betweeb the Grey Knights Grand Master and Azrael, mocking each others titles since they are so similar was hilarious.
That whole book was absolutely amazing. Probably my favorite book outside of the HH.
Azrael is really a remarkeable leader and fits perfect to the unruly dark angels lore. For me there is only one other character of the dark angels, besides the lion, who is in my eyes more honorable than or maybe on the same level as Azrael and thats Corswain. Both show perfect dedication to the lion and the chapter by not only leading the first chapter but fighting alongside their brethren.
I replayed this battle with my buddies on tabletop. It pretty much came down to whoever got to attack first. Of course dice rolls change many thi gs but on the fights we rolled simular the attacker pretty much won everytime
This is what the Lions of Caliban look like: the Lions of Caliban are a mutant Lion-Wolf hybrid, right?
(There are medieval and renaissance heraldic arts of the Lion like a Wolf)
The more I hear of this lore the more I’m enjoying it… GW can suck a bag of D’s, it’s too bad they don’t have a CEO that understands profitable business and customer satisfaction. They will never get another penny out of me. You are a interesting story teller I would like to know more about the Man Himself…. Wolf Lord Rho
A long term question I have what role will Azrael have when the lion returns?
When gulliman returned a similar question was asked regarding Manius Calgar but if I remember correctly the writers of the black library found a solution that was mentioned during the plague wars series. To my memory Calgar is still lord of Ultramar and chapter master which makes sense seeing that now Gulliman is imperial regent his concerns take him far from the 500 worlds and he can effectually command other chapters than just the ultra marines.
Back to the dark angels the lion is a different brother than gulliman a warrior a no nonsense general but importantly he’s a knight of Caliban. most likely he will formally Duel Azrael Belihal and the other grandmasters of the unforgiven as was done during the great crusade to the lion loyalty is earned not just given especially from his gene sons. But the question remains what will Azraels role be afterwards.
The lion will take command as his right so Azrael is no longer chapter master he could serve as the lions second in command/advisor but after centuries of being the supreme grandmaster the head of the inner circle a proud astartes like Azrael might feel out of place in the era of primarchs returning.
The lion would never have been in favor of the breaking of his legion after the heresy so upon his return he might reforge the 1st legion proper by merging the unforgiven chapters that might annoy some of the grand masters who have been used to some semblance of independence though I’m in favor of this what is most likely to happen is the lion will simply command the unforgiven chapters while remaining separate therefore Azrael remains chapter master but under the lions command
(because on table top there are people who have a unforgiven army and will be mad if their dark angels successor chapter is shut removed by GW wants to do is to piss off the customer base further.
Which I can kind of understand but at the same time compared to other successors like the Black Templar’s Flesh Tearers non of the unforgiven successor chapters are really popular or talked about as much as the dark angels proper so some might bicker but not a lot of GW decides for 10th edition to bring back the dark angels legion back in black.
Yeah i am surpised Azrael gone toe to toe with Khan, cause his model is around 40,000 years old, he predates the internets. GW not updating his model is far beyond the utmost Heresy.
Azrael : _"I am Azrael, Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels."_
Kharn (totally not impressed): *_"Of course, that ridiculous helmet should have given you away."_*
(Glad to see Kharn did not loose his banter with all this "character development". XD)
It makes sence that Azreal isn't seen as one of the greatest fighters in the imperium vecause a dark angel seeks no personal glory only to see their duty done. The lion cares not for the thoughts of the sheep.
I can't wait for I, Cato Sicarius, master of the watch, knight champion of Macragge, grand duke of Talassar, high suzerain of Ultramar, former captain of the famed second company, captain of the victrix guard, PHD, master chef, favorite son of Guilliman, bestest Ultramarine, pokemon master week.
🤣😂
We need chapter master Tu'shan kicking the Marines malevolent around. Hands down one of the best moments in the lore. Pimp smacked him so hard korn felt it! Schteentch in the side like Daaaaaaamn!
ASMODAI!!!
"Make Them Repent" !
INTERROGATE?!!!
@@bobbyrabii2402 OUR ASSUMPTIONS ARE CONFIRMED!
@@comradeweismann6947 HE HAS A SUSPICIOUS BOOK!
BOOK??!!
Azrael is a badass commander !
Aside from Dante, I dont think there is a single chapter master that comes close to Azrael's level of badassery and complete mastery in everything he does.
I'm not sure but... isn't kharn able to be revive if he dies ? or was that just a one time thing during the siege of terra ? because if he's still able to ressurect after beeing killed then yes Azrael has clearly done the right choice ^^
My brother bought me Azrael for my birthday this year, he was the last named Dark Angel character I needed.
I even recently painted him.
Azrael is one of the named characters that I use the most due to how well rounded he is.
I was re-watching this when I realized that Azraels' death against Luther will probably be the thing that wakes The Lion. Ya can't have two Supreme Grand Masters after all.
It's time for the lion to comeback
I want the Betrayer to meet the The Red Wake.
Every time I see the artwork of the Dark Angels with the hood (the one in the beginning) I just think of a Dark Angel Space Marine with long lightbrown/dirty blond hair lol
Mullet!
Me too, it's a shitty artwork
Facts.
I really liked that it was the same planet Captain Atticus and some other shattered legion forces landed during the Damnation of Phytos. Even one of the big cities was called Attica when I remember correctly.
At the twilight of the 41's millénium, the Unforgiven could not survive without the Lord of Angels.
Azrael didn't just Jose to live to fight a grater threat, he did so to fight another day.
And most importantly, he did so to live
More dark angels content please!! Would love some dives of lore on azrael or belial etc especially those people may not have heard of yet
There's only 1 hero of the imperium for me, Ciaphas Cain
Azrael should cross the rubicon, become Primaris.
The model’s probably already finished.
I believe among all the Chapter Masters Azrael and Dante are the best all around as far as commanders, weapon and ballistic skills. I think Azrael is only behind Dante when it comes to leadership and most of that is based off of total experience. And as far as melee and ballistic skills amongst chapter masters I believe he's up in there in both categories amongst all Astartes. If Logan Grimnar is the most badass melee fighter, there aren't too many more Space Marines that are better than Azrael in melee maybe he's top 6-10, and as for ballistic skill he seems to wield a fairly large combi-plasma one handed, there's artwork of him aiming it as such. Again he might not be the best in that aspect but I'd say he's most likely among the best among Chapter Masters/Captains/Wolf Lords etc. According to lore he also had some great fortitude vs psykers.
In chess, one of the few times you won't trade up is when the enemy has a large piece advantage. Chaos arguably has a massive peice advantage lol.
That being said, I don't know if Azriel is worth more to the Imperium than Kharn is to Chaos. I think I would make the trade for anything that kills living saints. Assuming it's something that stays dead when you kill it.
To be fair, Celestine is destined (irl that is) to die to any named character that she has a close fight with. Her ability to resurrect makes it easy to get a conclusion to the fight without permanent losses for either side.
Great video. I loved that audio book, Trials of Azrael. I have listened to it many times. Azrael is brilliant. He makes the rational correct choice. Even if he kills Kharn, the Blood God would just bring him back anyway. Azrael's sacrifice wouldn't be worth it. Throughout the story he is calm and calculating. He even manages to turn the tables on his true assailant.
C.Z. Dunn is really under appreciated as a writer for Black Library. There is very few works of his that I do not like, and if there is it is not even a dislike but more of a "meh" moment. So for me his books are ranked as its either "ok" or "YES!!!!"
Chaplain Daenor has also faced Kharn and lived...granted he lost an arm...but still counts for something right?
Criminally underrated chapter master.
What if Khan is like Lucus "the eternal," (forgive the spelling), in that whoever kills gim becomes him. Not only that, what if any chaos champion at Khans' level is like that but it's never risen to level of "public knowledge" within the 40k universe at large, that this is a reality of how deep the taint of chaos goes. Either that or it's that Khorne, can't afford to lose his 1st berserker, unless he loses power to the other chaos gods by losing him and not "having his replacement on deck," given that he's been around since the heresy.
hahaha Noice stuff wolf Lord Rho for using my Dark angel drawing as thumbnail ;)
ASMODAI!!!!!! *in the distance* INTERROGATE!?
lol ive always felt the first legion idea was a joke. ive never thought "you know who's best suited for this problem? the dark angels"
Azrael and the first deserve respect again the moment they come clean with their history, until then, then should be viewed with barely withhold suspicion and distrust.
I would absolutely love to see a Gabriel Seth vs kharn fight or Dante. Either of those would be incredible
No they would be short, all except Dante because he is too important and Kharn is too popular.
Gabriel Seth wouldn't last long enough for Kharn to really notice, same with several other chapter masters.
I think Seth’s rage would would be a total surprise to Kharn, he is like a loyalist berserker. Kharn would expect a chapter master to be an expert swordsman and a duellist, Seth is an expert fighter in every sense, I certainly wouldn’t underate him against the betrayer
@@cj4857 my guy, Kharn killed a Flesh Tearer with a Gladius to the temple. Kharn has fought Abaddon with all of Abaddon's gifts as a new warmaster of chaos.
Kharn would wipe the floor with Seth
Not to sound entitled to pick a topic for you but if you are doing Heroes of the Imperium perhaps cover some of the Guard characters those men do the vast majority of the fighting and dying for the imperium and get largely seen as a punchline in the fandom
4:53 oops
He made the right call. Who's to say that strike would have killed his enemy? Maybe his opponent is able to survive the strike yet the strike he received in return ends his life. There will be opportunities in the future as long as you are alive to see that future.
Merry Yule, fellow wolfkin
Man your vids make me just run to the nearest GW and buy an army.... I then look at my bank account...
I think there will be a massive battle between the assembled dark angels chapters and the fallen in which azrael will die heroically, the dark angels will be in disarray but then the lion returns and leads them to victory over the fallen but in the process the knowledge of the fallen will be known to the other chapters. This will leave the dark angels lost and needing to find a new identity which they will under the Lion in the similar way to how they did in the great crusade
For me to put it to the verry bottomline in his decision in the fight against the betrayer
as a warrior: it was the wrong decision
as a leader: it was the right decision
I think he also made the right choice and not sacrificing himself to kill Kharn the betrayer because of the simple fact Kharn has died before and they just brought him back to life
Had the same in Mind. Khorne would Kharn bring back to Life but Azrael would have stayed dead.
Azreal knows he needs to live to save the imperium if he's dead yes not able to stop chaos and a knight never gives in personal vanity or pride
Was expecting "it's over Khan I have the high ground"
I wanna see Kharne vs Logan 👍🏽 a great listen Rho nonetheless thank you
That first shot in the video.... looks like he is wearing a bad wig.
it would have been better if it was lucius the eternal, more interesting
Kharn can be resurrected, just like he was after the loss to Sigismund.
And after his defeat by Garvel Loken on Istvaan III.
@@filwilliamson9149 I dont think he actually officialy died with that one
Merry Christmas and Happy New year!!
In listening to the the trials of Azreal I have a different perspective of the dual with Kharn as I believe Azreal was lucky to live at all Kharn may be a berserker but he is a skilled dualist and feints are a real thing so yes Azreal made the correct choice
This is the correct perspective of this duel
wolf can you please link the art you used
Yoooo I just finished fallen angels good stuff
Merry Christmas Wolf Lord
Asmodai! Make him repent!
"Make him repent, Azmodai"
Same as loin did in arks of omens
Honestly I’m not surprised the dark angels fighting style is based on the spiral of the order but more importantly he leads the first legion in all but name and space marines do not bow to anyone that is weak I doubt Dante would have done as well Ragnar Blackmane maybe it speaks volumes about the loyalty of the dark angels to put the bigger mission as a whole ahead of killing on chaos space marine no matter who it is
Azrael, is always right.
Yeees! Loyalty is it's own reward!
Didnt Khan die on Terra to the black boi siggy? So even if Azrael killed him Khorne would just ressurect him
Pleaaaaase do asterion moloc.
Isn't Kharn the champion of Khorne? Killing him would only mean he be resurrected immediately or eventually. Azrael did make the right decision, no doubt.
Meh, he’s no C-Y-P-H-E-R
Like his Primarch, Azrael is a true strategist. Opting for the bigger picture and leaving Kharn a scar to remember him by was the right choice given the circumstance. Abbadon is the bigger threat and where Azrael needed to be to lead the Deathwing. We are the first! Nice vid Rho ;)
I feel like if anyone could beat Kharn without getting killed in the process, it would be Mephiston. I really don't think Kharn would stand a chance.
69 dude!!!!!!! 69th like Wild Stallions. Yup going to found a chapter to name them wild stallions
Can we please have a video on Zahariel aka cypher! He’s the best character in 40k! Still unknown if he’s good or bad and from the past.
Wasn't Azrael whooped up by some random Alpha Legion warband leader at Vraks?
Winning the war is always more important than winning the battle, unless the battle at hand is the one that wins the war. Azrael +100 points of respect. As Dark Angels characters go i always found him to be one of the more boring ones, until now.
The Lion was the first... but Alpharius was the Alpha having never left the Emperor.