LIVE TRIAL | MA. v Karen Read Trial - Verdict Watch Day 5
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- Mistrial Stream: ua-cam.com/users/livezRJ_QZ5Neik
Verdict Watch Day 4: ua-cam.com/users/liveuHQLwfTackM
THE DOCKET
0:00 Welcome
4:20 Judge asks Prosecution and Defense for Input
12:10 Judge Instructs the Jury and Sent to Deliberate Again
19:33 Summary
21:13 Q&A
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Lally had a thousand witnesses, all talking about snow and a thousand useless pieces of evidence. The audacity of him to say the jurors did not do their duty earnestly and thoroughly is ludicrous.
When he was talking about the length of the trial and the amount of evidence all I could think was how much of it was pure filler and obfuscation coming from him I got irritated with him all over again.
I have come to genuinely dislike him as a human being. He has to know what he is doing, it screams corruption.
@@hnraj9441 I felt somewhat sorry for him until he brought the flipped video.
That was imo proof that he didn't just do his job for the prosecution bc he had to, but was actively behind the framing.
@@Dont_fret_just_wonder right. He misrepresented that video and pointed to people not messing with the wrong taillight as though it were the damaged one. He absolutely knew what he was doing.
How can they all not found reasonable doubt? That's insane
To all of the people that are surprised, from what I have seen on the internet, there are people who genuinely believe without a doubt that Karen hit John. All of the polls I have seen are split around 90/10. Statistically, at least one juror is part of that 10%.
Oh for sure. It's honestly shocking in this day and age with corruption of cops being exposed daily that people believe the state with all this reasonable doubt.
Regardless of what they ‘believe’ their job and responsibility is to follow the evidence. If there is ANY reasonable doubt they MUST find not guilty.
Yes, I've talked to quite a few people who strongly believe in Karen's guilt. Not one of them wants to support their feelings with a factual argument. Mostly I hear about how Karen is such a see you next Tuesday. Apparently in their minds that means that you definitely committed a murder. 🤷♀️
@@debbiewedemanthe problem is that they don't understand that
@@JamieDoe472yeah, had the same experience
If I was on the jury I would be sooo frustrated with my fellow ‘guilty’ jurors. Guarantee they can’t prove their convictions
Yes! Also, anyone who believes guilt, is putting way too much stock in trooper Proctors words.
I've read Bosyon juries yell at each other. Not exactly a good way to negotiate a verdict.
even if 11 of them said guilty I would not budge , no way
I can't even comprehend that anyone would even consider a guilty verdict. This is INSANE and TERRIFYING.
Right? I cannot fathom how anyone got there.
Agree. Either someone just believes cops always or they didn't understand the science imo
Yes it is. 🥺 It is difficult to understand that anybody (with the will to really see all the evidence as it is) could give a guilty verdict.
@@hnraj9441 I agree, I think there is some conflict of interest. Of course thats purely speculative but with everything that has happened in this case, nothing is surprising.
Sounds like a 'ringer' on the jury.
Lally made this case extra confusing, misstated all the evidence, bored the jury to death, disrespected everybody’s time and the state resources to bring this circus, but now has the audacity to say the jury hasn’t done enough.
My son is 47 today!!! FORTY-SEVEN!!! Thank you Emily for explaining and educating us!! We appreciate you so so much!!
🎂
Happy Birthday to your son!
Happy birthday to your son!! 🎉 He shares a bday with my husband who was born exactly 20 years earlier than your son! Have a beautiful day!
@@amberk7830 Happy Happy Birthday to your husband!! Cheers for 7/1 boys!!!
Happy Birthday! My Mom is 89 today!! And it’s Canada’s birthday.
They're going to end up in a fist fight in the jury room, if the feelings are anything like socials.
I’m not surprised. They’re not allowed read-backs, they have to rely on their notes & memories. 2 people can easily hear different things! This is the court’s fault.
Especially concidering the fact that the technical systems seemed to be really shitty..
It's outrageous that they don't even have access to the transcript! MA courts are hokey.
Exactly!! We all have opinions bc we’ve been able to review testimony repeatedly & look at evidence in minute detail. The jury doesn’t get any of this. I feel for them, ridiculous.
I hope we will be able to hear one of the jurors about how the deliberation went. It would be so interesting to know how they operated, especially when sent back to deliberation after expressing so powerful words on how they see this case with strong differences. I mean, put yourself in their shoes, how do you go back to discussion ? do you even try to discuss ? that must be difficult for them whatever their opinions.
I would like to know too, did they go step by step by witness and evidence, do you consider witness #1 credible or not, what did or didn't you believe, why. All the way through, what evidence do you see as fact, why or why not, etc. As the foreperson I hope they have the communication and reasoning skills to navigate or at least try to, a deadlock.
@@J-Bird88 I do NOT think the judge will give them the green light to do so. Bc the state will likely want to retry and seek another venue bc of the ceap show thrown everywhere about this case.
The questions in my comment was meant as a foreperson, I would ask those questions to the rest of the jurors.
I wouldn’t ask that in an interview to the jurors. Lol
I can't believe that the "guilty" jurors understand what reasonable doubt is.
This isn’t about the Truth !!! ,… this is about their personal values, bias,.. and constructs.
Like I said in another comment. There is probably an ex cop or someone related to one in this jury. Karen sending the jury looks and acting weird through the trial doesn`t help her at all, but that shouldn`t be enough to convict her. She is very eccentric and animated and should have been told to not give the jury a reason to dislike her. Because she isn`t very pleasing to watch, although she is pretty.
You've hit the nail on the head!
@@eltoro969 I agree. She grates over time. I'm surprised they didn't find her guilty of drinking n driving
replay crew here, that lamp has bunny ears!
😂😂😂 I had to look when you said this. It totally does!
I like that picture. And yes the lamp has really cute bunny ears.
lol Ty
Lol..and, now ... that all I can focus on lol
It so does 😂😂
Being from MASS I don't see anyway they will find an unbiased jury for a retrial
I would agree with that , just based off of what I’ve watched throughout this trial . Pretty disturbing honestly .
That’s clear from their inability to find one for this trial.
Yeah, I'm from Western Mass (Franklin County) and there's been enough exposure to the trial out his way that I can't see it being possible. They had trial coverage playing in the lobby of my vet's office last week.
The investigation was a ‘Shit Show’ from the first Butt-dial!!
Big blue wall is the difference in fundamental beliefs of the jurors
Det. Proctor is probably selling a butt-load of broken tail pieces on eBay as we speak….
$30 for clear pieces
$55 for red pieces
(ColinA is, IMHO, likely smashing tail light at night to help supply Protor with as many as he needs. Colin’s mom is probably dropping him off through town!) 😉
Praying for a not guilty verdict
Yes, this jury should have been notified about the FBI investigation!
Early on I thought there was a chance that this case was dumped on Lally and that he was phoning in his direct examinations/job. Now I whole heartedly believe he is just as dirty as Canton PD and Proctor and his boys. He will most definitely retry her if this comes back a mistrial.
I don't think he can. I think he will want to. I think he will say he is going to. I don't think it will actually happen.
I would assume that he would try to retry her but the FBI investigation has already determined John wasn't hit by a car. The FBI is also investigating the DA's office so Lally will have a lot against him if he tries.
And then it hangs over KR “for ever”.
@@susannahwilkinson5254and John’s family. A true tragedy for Karen Read and the O’Keefe family
@@susannahwilkinson5254 Unfortunately, no matter what the verdict, it will hang over her forever. As well as John O'Keefe's family. No winners here.
I honestly can not see how anyone could think she did it, I didn't see any evidence that proved 100% she did it
i know i’d be asking those people to show me the evidence that convinced them and then probably dying inside when they use the hair and glass of unknown origins found on her car as their evidence that she for sure killed him with her car… no blood on the car or anything but forget about that, its a hair and glass that travelled around town for hours and days and magically stayed put. evidence!
quite the contrary! I saw a lot of evidence that completely exonerated her. 😮
Not even 100%… but like not even 10% 😩
I don't see how they'd ever find jurors that haven't seen all the internet/ news media etc.
I fear that media pressure is contributing to the deadlock.
I don't know with this case in particular, but there are people who just don't watch the news or pay attention. When I was in my 20s and 30s I was like that. Didn't watch the news, didn't spend time on social media. I had kids and friends and a life too busy to have time for any of it.
Of course then you get people who are under-informed about everything.
The jurors are convinced that it was snowing.
Something I just realized: If Karen had actually said "I killed him" at the scene, why didn't Procter mention that she confessed in his tea spilling texts?
It's just one more point you'd expect it to be written that it wasn't
Great point
Right. She would have been taken into custody immediately.
If Lally couldn't hear the judge while he's standing in front of her, are we sure the jury heard everything?
26:59 members only stuff reminds me of being the poor kid who doesn’t have the good shoes
Same.
Right?
I lol'd at that and agree. For the most part I enjoy Emily and she is the only UA-camr I'd consider being a member, but I don't give my money to people who promote pride.
@@googleuser2226 Genuinely curious and asking respectfully, why do you not support anyone who supports pride?
I fail to understand this member stuff
I was concerned about the integrity and intelligence of the jurors based on that of the witnesses and judge.
What an injustice.
They're from Boston!
Judge Bev is too controlling and may refuse to poll the jury. This is her fault for not being more jury-friendly and for the horrible verdict slip.
Emily I believe I am made a year subscription with u. Or it is soon enough so I say today. It’s been a delightful and a pleasure to be with like minded individuals here. Always thoughtful to use our minds and with some great laughs and funny. I try and be more vocal here and luv all Law Nerds.
Honest to god that note gave
GENTLE DEAREST READER…. All of a sudden the foreperson is a bard! A wicked baaarddddd 😂
The jurors must feel imprisoned! I can’t imagine.
There poor jurors need to go back to their lives.
They deliberated longer than Trooper Proctor conducted his "investigation" Hos lomg before its declared a mistrial
CPD should have called in county police investigators instead of state. Botched from the beginning. Proctor is going to be out a job real soon. His name is tainted forever.
If this jury returns with a guilty verdict on some lesser included, would it not be more vulnerable on appeal given that the letters from the jury clearly state how fundamentally divided they were? Is the pressure to compromise for unanimity at some point a compromise to justice itself?
The charge given is based on a charge given to a jury and the appeals court affirmed the verdict and judgement from that case. It is still valid case law and has become the standard process of how to prompt deadlocked juries.
@@MichaelOnines thanks for that. And I understand that this is a tried & tested instruction. In this case, with the jury expressing fundamental differences and contrary perceptions, it feels a bit perfunctory to respond with this instruction though. Almost like the court is not taking the straightforward meaning of the jury’s letter seriously. I can understand, though, that too little pressure from the court would also be problematic. I’m definitely learning as we go along here.
They DO NOT have transcripts or read back available to jurors in Massachusetts. The jury has to remember what they heard and/or take very good notes.
Can you imagine? No wonder they are deadlocked.
I’m from Mass and use to work in Canton,MA. I have been glued to this case.
Recently did research after watching and feeling that this judge seemed to be bias and learned that in a murder trial that was tried in this same court with this same judge, the trial resulted in a Hung Jury / mistrial,
Case was retried and jury was deadlocked a 2nd time around, this Judge gave the Rodriguez charge and the defendant was found guilty .
I was not invested in that case, but seems as though this would be very controversial. Your thoughts .
I sit in the traffic on my way home
It seems like bullying from the court. Is the jury getting frustrated that the court is not accepting their decision????
Exactly I don’t agree with the Allen charge, it seems like they are just like get back there and bully the others to change sides
I tend to agree.
Kinda, but not doing so is also not ideal due to the time, energy, and money the state and defense put into the case. So at least one "are you sure?" seems about right. But keeping them for punishing hours or sending them back infinitely would be straight up coercion. So it seems like this is basically the agreed upon compromise.
So now it's basically "send them back once, if that doesn't work give them clear instructions on how certain they need to be, and for both sides to think about what constitutes 'reasonable doubt' and whether they used it correctly. If they still come back undecided, then that's the result."
Your commentary is by far the best non-biased and easy to understand. Hoping that this jury can pull it together for these families. 💕
This is wild! We know the facts! I can’t wait to see when they come back. I hope we find out why they are split .
You are so amazing EDB!! Thank you for all you do for us!! Greatly appreciated.❤
It sounds as if the prosecution or state doesnt want to have this case still out when the fbi is finished
Thank You EDB!
If I were a juror, I would wait a few months and then come out in the way I decide to come. I'd use a pseudonym and interview with Emily! Not even kidding. She could do a long-form interview and I trust her not to twist my words. Her knowledge and experience would make her a good interviewer. She'd ask smart questions.
This is shocking.
Just the facts, follow the science
glad you've had good travels... thanks for your expertise 👍💜👍
I want to be the fly on the wall in that jury chamber 😂😂😂 omg iam so curious 😅 but if there is doubt there is doubt ... and then you cannot find one guilty?
I’ve not heard the instruction before. I think it’s a very fair instruction. It makes sense to push one more time, but not in a “you must convict” sort of way.
EDB you are amazing and appreciated
Aww I had no idea this was happening, I didn't get a notification from the app or UA-cam, what a bummer :(
Happy to be on replay crew.
Just wanted to say thank you Emily 💜💜
Emily, you are the best! You stretch yourself to the max for us, and we appreciate and love you! Make sure relax my friend, and lay your troubles down, too! ;) xo
Omg, I can't believe you are in Wisco! Love to you from Milwaukee ❤
I feel the some jurors felt intimidated. And the people showing up made them even more nervous. Corruption is deep in that town
As someone who likes to give people the benefit of the doubt, I've tried very hard to come at this from the opposite way (though murder was never provable to me. Every time I've looked at the testimony etc as if she did run him over, the evidence just kept pushing me to reasonable doubt. The shenanigans from those familes and the prosecution just makes me convinced NG is the only reasonable conclusion.
1 juror was crying, rest were unemotional just now
Are you in the court room?
How do you know?
I just got into a “tiff” with hubs over text. I just kept thinking about what people would say about our “exchanges”😂! We are celebrating 30 years together on 7/3, so bitchy texts are just part of couple communications. He said something with three!!! And since I am a grumpus when I first wake up I took offense at the accusatory “!!!” People argue 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
Seriously! Or even my google searches 😂
It's my birthday too!!! 33 and excited for the year to come (:
I have a group text with my aunts who are in Mass. One aunt at first said she was definitely guilty and now wouldn't be able to convict.
What the jury sees is completely understandable! What did they expect!???
Zero shot, day one of deliberation. Not a single person is changing my mind period.
It was soo obvious to me that Jen M. Was rehearsed and lying. I believe her family did John dirty
100% agree.
100% agreed
Give it up Laly
I never got a notification. 😢 Missed this live.
The note sounds like there are cop believers in the jury. They cant handle the framing accusation.
Lally seems to be taking this case VERY personally. I can’t see him letting this go.
I don't think he will want to let it go but I think the federal investigation will force him to.
I will donate to this woman's defense until the end of time.
It’s my daughter’s 11th birthday today! She keeps asking me if we have a verdict… 😊
Absolutely! I would answer any questions asked by those who have been so invested in this Case..😊
If I was on that jury and I thought Higgins hit him In the basement as I persianally do,
That charge of the defendant set off a chain of events that caused Mr O'Keefe death is where they would get me twisted.. because in a way the defendant playing text games with Higgings would have been the catalyst to set off a chain of events...
Unbelievable!!!
"Your honor I've spent more time asking about the tables at the Waterfall than this jury has spent deliberating."
Lally took 4 weeks up asking people what they did for a living what school they went to,etc., yawn
I can’t even imagine being in Karen’s shoes, I’d be terrified. The fact they can’t agree after seeing and hearing all the evidence is insane to me
Someone in the jury is either a cop/cops or is closely related to a cop. I can`t see any other reason why they don`t give her the reason of doubt. Reason of doubt is ALL OVER this case.
I still suspect there is a juror or two that are not budging from "guilty" for personal reasons that have nothing to do with the trial or evidence. I saw a comment from someone who lives in that town who said they believe "not guilty" but their family believes she is guilty, from the beginning, and they would be hard pressed to vote "not guilty". Maybe their is a juror in the same position that just can not walk out of that courthouse with a not guilty verdict and have to face the wrath, disappointment, etc. from family/friends/neighbors, etc. It would actually be easier on THEM to live with a hung jury than never live it down with family/friends that they voted "not guilty". This makes more sense to me than there being a juror or two who can't see the glaring instances of reasonable doubt that this trial was FULL of, imo.
My family went through a hung jury last year involving my daughters SA trial we are back in court on August 5 it is so hard and draining this will be the 3rd time in trial 😢
There has NEVER been a good outcome to a defendant testifying
Well that's objectively not true.
Everyone was looking for you in other livechat streams today: 'where is EDB?'
Good arguments by edb. I couldn’t change my mind.
I'm so very frustrated, Emily. Looking forward to you getting the fbi information. I'm struggling not to scream a lot of cursey words😮
Ugh missed the live
You’re a good egg, Emily❤❤
Question- Did Dave Matthew’s play American Baby? It’s my favorite song from them I think
Imo, the "I hit him" argument isn't strong because even if Karen *did* say those words exactly, people panic? People freak out? I'm the type of person that immediately thinks the worst when scared, so I can see someone panicking and naturally thinking its their fault, even if it wasn't. It would've been more suspicious if Karen immediately denied doing anything, rather than immediately thinking it was her fault.
I also can't discount the possibility that jen put the idea in her head in the first place. Given her state of mind she would have been easily suggestible.
As it would have been the most logical thing in her situation. I mean, she certainly didn't see the dog bites on his arm, or did have forensics check her car ( like, real forensics, not what they did in Canton).
It's wild people put so much emphasis on her first reactions. Of course she must have felt she did him wrong when she found him.
She was also panicked enough to think that somehow his blood on her was her period. I don't think you can take her at her word in that moment.
My question is did she say " I hit him" or " did I hit him"...... they sound very much alike but are totally different..
Both@@thatkajunguy8029
I think maybe some of the jurors feel intimidated that something could happen to them just for being on the case in the future
Yay EDB!
From day 1 Lally did not appear convinced of his case! He should not retry.
Good morning!
Australia here, how can they make this go to trial again??? Wow. Can the judge deny it? Will it happen before the FDI case plays out?
A miss trial??? HOW? The evidence is all in her favor of being found NOT GUILTY!
You are quite adorable! This jury is not gonna catch me on a plane! Ha ha ha and no, they’re not
Im so curious what evidence convinced anyone to find her guilty..
I DIDNT GET MY NOTIFICATION!!!
Now I’m on replay crew….😢
If I was the hold out the judge sending me back would just make me dig my heels in more.
❤this is time for the FICKLE PICKLE❤
If they retry the case, can they change how they feel about the cause of death? For instance, she didn’t hit him with the car but just left him knowing he somehow fell
12:44 polarised. Insurmountable. End of : )
Love ya Em, are you having fun yet? Judge seems frustrated
Smmmmeellly cat
Normally and Massachusetts doesnt seem to go together.........Does this weigh in favour to the defence? Thanks Emily.
Now I feel like the question will be: will the Commonwealth retry the case?