I think it really ties into Kratos also finally changing and telling Atreus to open his heart and stand up to the real emotions we feel in the face of oppression. We don't want revenge and more pain, we want justice and peace to put an end to the chaos. Thor died a man who stood up for everything at the very climax and was willing to die to fix himself for his remaining child. Kratos was also able to finally step back and give Atreus the chance to make his own choices and seek justice for his friends instead of revenge for themselves. Really inspiring and useful in real life situations
What's fascinating to me is how Thor seems to feel a sort of kinship with Kratos. "We are destroyers," he tells him. He sees a reflection of himself in Kratos. Nobody else was able to get through to Thor. Atreus came the closest, but Thor just fell back under Odin's thumb. But Kratos? The god with what is probably the most violent past out of anyone else in the story? If Kratos looks Thor in the eyes, makes the choice to be nonviolent, and tells Thor to do the same... what excuse does Thor have not to change?
It's a tragedy.. really. Would have been awesome to have been able to team up with Thor against Odin. We already had two other teammates in the final battle. What's one more?
@@unicornpower2411 I grew up under someone as emotionally abusive and controlling as Odin, and even that small moment, when Thor stopped, and said no, that was a change so unprecedented and inconceivable, Odin could not have imagined it. And Thor saw that Odin had never imagined that Thor could have a will of his own, could have control over his own fate... which now that I think of, Odin never did have. The moment that may have been small, but it was unbelievably important. Had Thor lived, that would not have been the last time he said no, and certainly not the last time he chose nonviolence.
@@unicornpower2411 remember the end of the video: Thor's final choice lives on with his daughter because he is a father who did his best to be better, which will have tremendous impact.
The whole "you could've told me before I poured" line went over my head. I didn't realize that he didn't intend to drink and that he'd poured for Atreus and Kratos rather than for Kratos and himself
in all honesty, I think Kratos thought that too lmfao which is why he didn't stop him. Atreus thought it too. he set the cups down in front of the two adults. Kratos let Thor pour for two adults. Thor poured for the people whose home he was in. definitely an intentional sequence by the director and writers
@@brandimullins8813I think that adds to the 'Just being polite' line, he was trying to be a good guest, and had brought the mead as a gift for the people he was visiting. He absolutely would have gone at the conversation in a way of 'You beat my boys, I want to see what they lost to.' And frankly I can see it at least being less aggressive until he needed to push it. Odin walking in and pulling his bs? That added a bit more gasoline to the explosion.
I haven't played the Dad & Boy games, but Thor's hesitation before pouring the second cup puzzles me. Was he questioning if he was right to pour for a kid? Or was that something Odin possibly requested him to do and was having second thoughts about? Either way, it was odd.
@@jokhard8137 it's more like he wasn't sure how old Atreus was, since aesir live so long age is barely a factor to them. But he also didn't want to leave him out of it and tried being a good guest.
Just a note: Sif absolutely does blame Odin, not Atreus, for the troubles their family has had in that scene. She first says that Odin isn’t protecting them. Then she points out that Magni and Modi were “Thrown at the All-Father’s problems like brittle knives to a mountain face.” The wording here is very important. It does not sound like she is blaming the mountain face (or the trouble makers) in this analogy, she is blaming the person who threw her sons at those problems (which would be Odin). It’s actually Thor who is so unwilling to place blame on and go after Odin that he turns on Atreus instead. Additionally, there’s an optional “cutscene” where you can listen in on a conversation between Sif and Thor earlier where she more clearly says that Odin is the cause of their problems and asks Thor “When are you going to stand up to him?” Edit: this is also reinforced by Thor’s line in the final battle to Odin “Sif was right about you, I just didn’t want to see it”
Yeah it's really Odin's fault that Magni and Modi were killed. Odin knew Kratos' past. He knew that Kratos murdered a whole pantheon of gods. Odin knew what Magni and Modi (and also Baldur) were getting themselves into. He sent them to their deaths, yet Thor didn't want to accept that it was Odin's fault and also a large part his fault and blames Atreus and Kratos for their deaths. Yes Kratos and Atreus were the ones who killed them but they were only trying to defend themselves and was justified.
She still attributes some blame to Atreus, though. Which I guess is understandable from a certain angle since him and Kratos killed her sons, but from their very first interaction she shows animosity towards him, and had no qualms with Thor nearly bashing his head in. Yes, she knows that Odin was ultimately responsible for their demise, but her grudge against Atreus was very much alive and well.
Realistically though, she did initially blame Atreus. Not because she truly believed he and his father was at fault but because she was afraid of Odin. Later on she quickly realises it was entirely the All-Fker's fault.
@@terkz3566 I honestly don’t think it was blame, just animosity. She doesn’t like one of their enemies who has fought with her family being given safe quarters in her home. She sees it as another eventual calamity that Odin is ultimately responsible for. In short, she doesn’t like him and wants him gone from her home, but that doesn’t mean she thinks killing him would solve their problems:
One thing that I like during the opening scene with Thor is how Kratos treats him like an actual guest. He knows that Thor could start a fight at any moment but those bits of his Greek heritage stuck with him.
Same with how he reacts when he finds out how Freyr was treated in Asgard while being a “guest,” it’s a nice touch that he still has that Greek xenia ingrained in him.
@@dylanwarner7009 Yeah. Another thing I noticed too after rewatching it is when Odin calls Thor's sons "useless." He's not just using it to hurt Thor but he also might mean because they were supposed to survive ragnarok in the original story, he hates that they do something he can't do. My personal theory is that he pointed his grandsons in Kratos' direction because he knew what would happen to them.
@@vectorthedemon3244 True, although considering how much value Odin places value in prophecy perhaps he thought the opposite. If he believes they are foretold to survive Ragnarok, then maybe he thought Kratos wouldn't be able to kill them due to the prophecy?
Considering that Greek xenia was based on the theory that literally any traveller could be an angry thunder God in disguise, one could say that exercising those old habits when confronted with someone he knew for absolute certain was a thunder God was probably a near instinctual response.
The Norse had a very similar tradition in real life. It wasn’t communicated due to everything having to be changed for the game, but the Greek and Norse traditions were based on the same concept, with Odin wandering the realms and being way less of a dick.
As someone who grew up with an alcoholic father. Thor's character hit me harder than I thought. seeing Thrud talk to him after she and Atreus find him drinking, it made me cry. My father tries his best to be better, but you can't change what's already happened. atleast he hasn't been killed by odin, not yet.
At the begining of the game, when Thor visits Kratos and he poured 2 drinks, i thought i was one for him and one for Kratos. But rewatching that scene, it was one for Kratos and one for Atreus (Kratos rejects the drink for Atreus). Thor doesnt drink, he just touched and pour some on his hammer. I remember this because, not so obviously he was doing his best to be better for her daugther. The struggle was very well depicted
@@hectorado what you fail to realize Odin Manipulated Thor into becoming a weapon. The only time he praised Thor is when he killed someone/ something .I’m sure Odin relationship is the reason he wasn’t so close to his sons and daughter like sif stated he used to be in their lives heavily. U mix constant bashing with pain instead of lashing out , he drinks his sorrows away but he releases his pain but when he’s killing that why before his death he said to kratos “we don’t make change we destroy”.
Never noticed this until now but i love how Kratos had his hand on his axe but once he saw Thor put his hammer on the table he did the same. That perfectly sums up Kratos character now. Hes understanding and willing to compromise but if you wanna get busy, then he’ll do that to without hesitation.
also,kratos has his hand off of the axe for the conversation, and only grasps his weapon when Odin places his shoulder on Atreus Similarly, when Baldur in GOW 2018 says "a 2nd bed? who are you hiding?" and when Thor says "Your boy? The Allfather has plans for him!" kratos unlocks his rage. It's the first time we see Kratos use spartan rage in GOW4, and it's what satisfies Thor Kratos uses the same destructive rage as a means for protection, not for vengeance. He's doing it for his son truly beautiful writing
"Not only are Thor's sons dead but his sons *SUCKED* " "Her son Baldur is dead, and even when he was alive, he *SUCKED* " im sorry, i rlly love this analysis but these two lines so close together killed me 😭
Notice Thor's body language when Thrud says to him "We love you. You know that." You can almost hear him think "I don't deserve you." That hit super hard.
I think there's one thing that might be overlooked in the initial fight against Thor. I think sure, there is some elements of him just wanting to cut loose and fight, but I get the sense it's much more about his sons, and not necessarily in the sense of getting revenge for them. Odin's line "Death is what we Aesir live for", like every manipulation he uses, has a ring of truth: Thor isn't REALLY angry that his sons died, he's more angry with himself for failing them. He wants proof that they died worthy deaths, not that they went out like weak "useless" losers (like Odin says). In pushing Kratos to reveal himself, Thor gets to see Kratos' strength, sees the god that his sons fell to in glorious battle...and he's satisfied, in a way. Yes, they died, but they died fighting in a battle that most people or even Aesir could only dream of: a fight against the god-killer from another land, that would eventually go on to kill Odin himself.
And it's only when Sif reminds him how they were as children does he seem to to focus on the fact that they died rather than how they died. Unfortunately this leads him to focus on Atreus rather than Odin who Sif was trying to get him to target his anger at.
Another subtle thing that goes to show just how abusive and controlling Odin in to Thor is in that very same scene with the two of them and Atreus after returning with the repaired mask. Odin is jovial and welcoming to Atreus because he accomplished the task he set him out to do, saying self-congratulatory things like "See, don't we make a great team?" But then Thor decides to take a small shot at his father by saying "Just like you and Baldur?" Thor questioned Odin's leadership and judgement, if ever so briefly. That single act of mild-defiance instantly turned Odin's mood sour, more businesslike. Cold. Gone is the good-natured man who was basking in the glory of success, replaced by the abusive, condescending manipulator who insults Thor, scoffing at the notion he could have taught Atreus anything of value. The second Thor showed signs of individuality, of attempting to stand up for himself, Odin immediately had to shoot it down in order to maintain control.
Even the way Odin was bragging about what a "great team" he and Atreus make, it felt almost like he was rubbing it in Thor's face. As if he wanted Thor to feel worthless and unvalued. As if to say, "this new kid that just got here is far more valuable to me than you are!" It obviously upset Thor enough to make the jab about Baldur, as you said. Thor wasn't a good person by any measure, but watching the way his father treated him was heartbreaking.
Just to tag on to what you said (great btw!)I think Thor was a great storyline to show along Kratos' path. Thor and Kratos have a lot in common. Zeus was Kratos' Odin. I think he finds a kinship and an understanding in Thor and sees how easily he could have become just like him, but he found a path for himself with his mantra of, "We must be better" and wants better. You can see moments where he almost loses his anger and could have easily given into the anger and treated Atreus like Thor did his sons. Kratos not only breaks his chains that tied him down that path but gave himself new chains to tie down that part of him. Sometimes it's so easy to lose yourself in a moment like that and go down that path but Kratos keeps on keeping on. It was sad that Thor passed and I wished we got to have a sort of Kratos-Thor side up where they both go around being the justice daddy killing adventure romp (another universe maybe!) but it's better for the story this way. Thor wanted to change and did before he died, sometimes that's life but at least he did it and it makes it all the more heart wrenching. These games really resonated with my soul and I paused a lot to cry in them since Kratos and Thor remind me of my dad and family but sometimes that's what's amazing about having characters with flaws, because you can change and be better. You just have to start choosing to. The cycle has to stop some where, we don't have to keep the wheels turning.
There's something about Sif's character that is actually very subtle, but it expains a lot about her and gives her so much more depth than you'd see at first. She's not an idiot. When you over hear her and Thor's coversations, she seems very aware that Odin is the threat. that's why she doesn't want Thrud to become a Valkyrie. She'd end up just like Magni and Modi. A pawn of Odin. Who throws their children at his problems like brittle knives against a mountain. But at the same time, he's a dictator. a paranoid tyrant who is also known for killing his enemies and being particularly brutal to those who betray him (Mimir) so she cant move against him. She knows he's the bad guy and just as responsible for her sons' deaths as Atreus... she just cant get to Odin...She has to play along, knowing the danger she is in and how powerless she is
Whereas Baldur is the mirror of Kratos as he was in the original trilogy, Thor is the dark mirror of Kratos as he is in the Norse saga. Like Kratos, he is a god who has a violent and destructive past with lots of blood on his hands. Like Kratos, through love of family he feels a tremendous amount of guilt, sorrow, and self-loathing for what he's done. But unlike Kratos who vowed to never again be a mindless killing machine in the service of another god, Thor is unable to see himself as anything other than a mindless killing machine in the service of another god. He is mentally trapped in that prison, and thus is a far more tragic character than Baldur ever was. When Kratos killed Baldur, I felt immense satisfaction. When Thor was killed by Odin, I felt immense pity.
This is because of odin, kratos had only few gods above him who were ,mediocre, in manipulating, acting as if might make right, odin on the other hand is only using thor,s mind ageinst himself
I always tought of him as some kind of mirror to Atreus instead. He has many similarities with Kratos but he also is an example of what Atreus could have become if Kratos hadn't "been better".
Odin saying : "I did not want this." as he kills Thor was genuenly the most disturbing moment in the whole game tbh It echoes the textbook excuse all manipulators and abusers use when they realise they can't use someone anymore and they get violent to put them in " their place" , that being: "Why did you make me do this?" And the fact that Odin then starts shifting the blame on Kratos and Atreus just seals it. Odin isn't a god, he's *"small covetous tyrant"* Nothing more, nothing less.
As a daughter with alcoholic father Thor and Thrud's story hit me very personally. All they say to each other, how Thrud takes a moment to collect herself to reassure her father... I experienced all this personally. And the most hurtful part? Thor did what my father promising to do for years now.
I wish you and ur father the best. Hopefully, one day, he can find the courage to overcome his addiction so that you and him can have a better relationship. I had a female friend who's farther was an alcoholic. The sad part was that her mother died of alcohol poisoning when she was young. After begging and pleading for some time he finally broke down and chose his daughter over alcohol. They have a great relationship now!
I absolutely love how they frame Thors final scene in the perspecrive of a third person player. You can practically see the decision wheel, and Thor finally choosing the good options. This is the moment that defines him as his own person. He accepts his value and stands up for himself. The writing...
Man, that "Are you broken?!" line is so absolutely nuts. Odin says it with this level of sincerity and obvious malice that you don't know whether he's seriously asking or if he's just messing with Thor's head again. Or both. Can you imagine speaking like that to another human being? The level of inhumanity and psychopathic mentality Odin has is insane.
I think he was asking if he was MENTALLY broken as in PTSD or something similar And Odin would be written to ask if you're depressed JUST so he can tell you that it's not the time for that and you need to hold yourself together and be strong (for him)
You misread sif, she knows very well that Odin is the problem, she might be afraid of Atreus and Kratos but she correctly identifies the real problem. It's thor who misplaces his judgement and goes after Atreus
She blames atreus for putting thrud in danger, and seeks to kill him for heimdalls death (even though kratos did it) she also blames atreus for making thor miserable (which is Odin's fautl not atreus) and she doesn't try to stop thor when he is about to kill atreus (meaning to some degree she does deem his as the issue) two things can be true at once she thinks odin and atreus are the problem but she is still misguided because she is only half right
@@christopherlewis6915 I think Thor misinterprets Sif’s words, but yeah she definitely thinks Atreus is a threat. Although she understands that Odin is the real threat because he allowed Loki to come to Asgard after his history with their family and after years of hearing of the coming of Loki which I imagine was talked about since Odin is already going on about Loki causing ‘mischief’ as soon as he met him again after coming to Asgard with heimdall (wish the story went into more of what this universe knew about Loki before the first game) I think she’s trying to tell Thor that Odin will never change since he’s already sending thrud on missions like magni and modi and that things will never change while Odin is in charge. But bringing Valkyries to fight Odin is a pretty stupid idea so Sif wasn’t thinking the situation through clearly.
@Christopher Lewis she does recognize that Odin is the real problem, but also remember atreas killed modi. Her step son. She is understandably very upset at Atreus and see the pain having to work with Atreus brings to Thor. Heck he is sleeping in modi's old room. That cuts deep. It ties into her wanting thor to stand up to odin as well and. "Stand up to your father and kill the man who responsible for our sons death!" She is a complicated character in her own right.
@@dws0828 I don't think they knew anything about loki, that seems like something the jotnar kept under wraps as much as possible. I think using words like mischief and trickster are more of a nod from the writers
@@christopherlewis6915 Would you blame the mountain for blunting the knives thrown at it? Or would you blame the person throwing them? I think Sif would be alright with Atreus dying there (hence why she doesn't stop him), but the one she REALLY want dealt with is Odin. She says as much later in a dialogue you can miss where she says to Thor in reference to him saying he's trying to keep their family together: "If that were true, you'd stand up to your father for once in your life." Thor knew what she meant. He just feels like he can't stand up to his father. But that anger's going somewhere, and the only person he feels like he could kill in that room is Atreus.
The scene where Thor is drunk and sitting outside talking to Thrud? That hit hard. That's exactly how my family talks to me and I relate so much to Thor in that position.Hearing how you can do better, hearing from your loved ones that they KNOW you can do better, but how do you believe it yourself? It just makes you seem selfish as if you're not looking out for your loved ones and how your actions, affect them, and then you choose the weak side of giving in to the sadness and starting the drinking cycle all over again. Super depressing, but yeah they portrayed alcoholism really well and I love Thor's character. Really wish we couldv'e got more development on Sif like you mentioned though, and her relationship with Thor. Would've been so interesting! But I understand why they need to cut down on certain aspects of the game in order to not make it too long.
I suppose it's good from a story telling perspective. Humanizes them. But he's not a person, not a human. Not even a demigod. He's the goddamn god of thunder. He doesn't just "drink amounts that would kill MOST humans" he drinks amounts that would kill any human. It would actually kill all humans if we split it between us all. He drank the fricken SEA down a noticeable amount. The oceans (but they were mead somehow)
I’m there now. My grandmother passed away on the 20th of December. That woman was everything to me. Took me from an abusive home that I would’ve never survived and raised me like I was her own son. For 24 years all I’ve ever wanted was for her to be proud of me, and she was. She was all I had, every good part of me came from her. Now she’s gone. I drank before she passed, I’ve always been pretty miserable. When she got sick last summer is when it really picked up. Watching her slowly decline over the next few months until she eventually was just laying there barely breathing. Some part of me died when she did. That part that was willing to change, willing to at least try to be better. I don’t have it anymore. If the ocean was truly made of whiskey, I’d swim to the bottom and never come up. I won’t lie. The whiskey helps you, but it hurts everyone around you. The disappointment I feel around most of the ones who love me is unbearable. But I don’t care. The only person who truly mattered, whose opinion ever mattered, is gone. She was the only person ive ever been scared of, scared of disappointing, scared of hurting her feelings, scared of letting her see what I was becoming. Now it doesn’t matter. She’s in a much better place, so now I linger. Until I either get to go where she is, or I go somewhere much warmer. I can’t see a good way out of this. One that doesn’t involve me piss drunk and vacant. When they created Thor for this game, they had to have consulted actual alcoholics. People who’ve been there, so low you didn’t even know you could be so low. Because his character rings true, I see a lot of myself in him. I’m sure many others do too. He’s the perfect representation of a man who feels like he has nothing, when in reality he has everything he needs right in front of him.
@@jackf1830brother YOU must be better than this. Your grandma would’ve never wanted you to be in this state because of her. For the sake of your family, as I imagine you have one, you must stop. Repent to Jesus Christ and he will save you. “Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.” - 1 Peter 5:7 Do better brother. You may not be able to do it alone, but Christ is always there for you and will help you through it. “[You] can do all this through him who gives [you] strength.” - Philippians 4:13
something I just caught.. the "could have told me before I poured" thats because he didnt pour a glass for himself. First was for Kratos, the second for Atreus (hence why he hesitated, wondering for a moment if he was old enough and how much drink he would be able to handle) kratos not letting him serve Atreus means he now has to take one of the glasses for himself, which he would rather have avoided. originally i thought he did pour for himself (if only as proof that he wasnt serving poison), but its a real nice touch that in fact, he didnt.
@@pelinalwhitestrake3367 Yep a definite "I own the place" move especially as he entered in uninvited which is already a big no-no when it comes to hospitality.
@@blazethefirekitsune2766 its just something that seemed normal to me sicne they arent in friendly terms, and Kratos would have good reasons to be weary of him and his offering.
What gets me is the way Odin kills Thor IMMEDIATELY, no questioning, no attempt at changing his mind. In Odin's mind, if Thor can even utter the word "no", then he's already a lost cause and must be put out of his misery. Look what you made me do.
Thor is the one character who I wished didn't die in this game. This may sound fanficy but I would have loved if he just ended up crippled from Odin's stabbing. I would have loved to have post game conversations between him and Kratos about guilt, parenthood, and moving on. The one thing that I keep thinking of is if Kratos would bring up Hephestus in a conversation. Sif mentions that she, Thor, and theirs sons would make little horses, would Thor have heard that there was a god of craftsmen, and possibly found a new calling in building rather than destroying?
That would have been fitting, but its almost better this way. Thor in this game represents Kratos before he found Faye and before Atreus's birth. He's filled with regret and disgust for what Odin made him into, not wanting to or simply being unable to cope with seeing his father for what he really is. And the fact that Odin throws Thor's death on Kratos and Atreus as if the, made him do it is the perfect cap to how awful Thor's life was.
@@filipvadas7602 Not to mention how much Odin "cared" about his family. If you were of no use to the All-Father, you might as well not exist; better dead than useless.
That would've been great: the destroyer becoming a creator and the penitent man making up for his past. He could've completed his character arc and become a Norse version of Kratos.
Man, this hits so hard. My grandpa was an alcoholic in his final years and he was only in his early 60s. In the last month of his life, something happened and my dad told him he couldn’t see his grandchildren again until he got sober. He spent the last month of his life fighting to get sober only to drop dead from an aneurysm. When something like that happens, you wonder what could’ve became of them had their life not ended so abruptly. It’s truly a tragedy.
Odin emotionally beating Thor instead of physically beating him into submission reminds me of baby elephants who have ropes wrapped around their legs, which they can't break, and when their older, even though they could easily break the rope they don't because all they've ever known is the rope being able to trap them. Thor's spent his entire life Odin's enforcer that he doesn't know anything else even though he could probably beat Odin if he tried to rebel.
The biggest tragedy of Thor is that for the whole game he is a dark mirror of Kratos, but once he finally decides to be better, and defies Odin, he immediately gets killed for it.
Yeah. It was really lame actually. It felt more like shallow shock value than a meaningful developement. We needed to see Odin's true colors but there was waaaaay better things they could have done with Thor finally betraying him.
@@RacingSnails64yeah I agree with kevin, but I will say it actually did end off only a little happy for the family, Thrud and Sif know that in his final moments, Thor stood up for himself and his family even if it cost him his life, and Thor can rest easy knowing he did that, and his family knows what he did.
I like Thor’s strongman physique it’s imposing and powerful, but it also tells the story of how big can folks are seen as objects, “help me move this”, “I bet you’d be a great football player”, “you’re scary looking I bet people are afraid of you”. I’m hoping we’ll see a Thor spinoff maybe a prequel.
It makes me feel like all I am is my body when people make comments like "why don't you play football?" Cause I don't wanna break my leg or get concussions for fun? Why am I wasting my body to not do that? We don't tell women "oh, it's a shame you're not doing porn..."
@@nzephiertruee ima tall and broad guy myself and people either treat u like a work mule or shame u through "jokes" which you arent supposed to get upset about otherwise youre a buzzkill
I noticed something watching this again. In his final conversation with Kratos, specifically after he says for the sake of our children, we must be better, Thor pauses, relaxes his shoulders, stands up straight, and gives Kratos the slightest of nods. Such a wonderful scene of acceptance and shaking off a burden that weighed him down for so long
I also saw personally that thor implicitly regrets his actions with killing the giants. He keeps reminding himself what he has done to them throughout the game always try to reaffirm his thoughts on actions of being a destroyer. As if it was a cry for help or even more a cry for somebody to finally put him down, but preferably in a hell of a fight cause that what he deserves in his own mind.
That reminds me of, of all people, Leo Whitefang from Guilty Gear. A man, after massive war, wishes to be killed, for someone to finally put them down, but their pride stops them from just laying down and giving up easily.
Its especially striking that this is how Odin treated the son of the giantess that was his one true love. Unlike Baldur or Heimdall, there was no political angle to his conception. Yet he treats him worse than the mad hound (Baldur) or the watchdog (Heimdall). He sees Thor like an ox, fit only to pull a plow where the farmer tell him, until its back inevitably breaks. Even amongst the rotten way Odin dehumanizes his family, the way he behaves towards Thor stands out as the most toxic.
Pretty sure Mimir has a few lines of idle chatter on this, basically Thor's birth killed his mother, and since Odin is a selfish prick, Thor isnt reall a son to him, its the thing that took his love from him.
@@broutefoin God, Odin's got the emotional maturity of a preteen. Yes, his grief for his dead wife should be honored, but directing it towards a baby, HIS OWN BABY, for something no one could really control? Like, why does anyone need to be blamed for this? Can't it just be a sad thing, and can't he just let himself mourn? But, no, he can't let his emotions get the better of him, that would mean he's not in control. Gotta bottle that shit up, make his own son deal with it his whole life so he can keep being the center of the nine realms. It's been said before and it'll be said again for years: Odin is a monster
@@KingJadonias You know, he's the god of the gibbet, and berserkers too, right? To honor him hang nine men on an oak tree, the blood eagle ritual is for him. Wotan, or Odin after his retconning, is on brand with this take and the thing about gods is that they don't change.
@@chiggsytube This was also incorporated in the game with the ravens: They are the corrupted souls of children that were hung by their parents to honor Odin
I also think Thor wanted Kratos to stop holding back because he knows how Kratos has changed for the better and I think it shook him between the games. After all if Kratos can change then why can’t Thor. He’d have to finally confront the fact that Odin, his own father, is the one who has kept him from leaving behind his worst qualities. Not to mention is also to blame for sending his sons on a mission that killed them. So in this fight he tries to get Kratos to lose it because if Kratos still has that beast in him then Thor can be content in believing “Yep the monster’s still within him, you can’t change who you are so there’s no point in trying. Don’t think too much about what’s happening and just accept things for what they are. It’s easier that way.”
Pretty much. Thor spent his life being taught by his father that he's little more than a mindless monster who can't change. Then Kratos showed up, and put this entire belief into question by being a better person for Atreus. Thor is in disbelief, but still believes he doesn't truly have a way out of his situation with his father Odin. That he can't actually change his ways. Odin's hold on his life is just that strong. So instead of making an effort to stand up, he seeks to validate his beliefs by pushing Kratos back to his old ways. And when he succeeds after threatening Atreus, he's satisfied, because now he knows for certain, he was right all along. Kratos never was more than a "Destroyer", a killing machine, only difference being who he kills for - his son. Thor could've killed Kratos, but instead, he decided to leave him alive, to serve as a reminder that trying to change is pointless. It hits hard because it feels like something that could happen irl - abusive relationships can be found anywhere, and the abusers often dangle the hope of potentially appeasing them in front of their victims while putting them down. And since the victims feel a connection with those abusers, even if it's built on emotional manipulation, they can't really stand up to them because of this and end up doing things they don't really want to do, because in their mind "there's no other way".
I love this. Misery loves company. He sees himself in kratos but has great envy for kratos trying to be better. He eventually stops fighting it at the end and listens to the Greek, and decides to be better. Unfortunately, he died for it, but it absolutely still counted for something.
I think it's more of "you can't change what you've done" and by making Kratos TRULY hit him in real anger he can comfort himself in thinking that he's still in the past and you can't change that Until Ragnarok where it's all or nothing he is living out the past and when he gets to the realization that Kratos has accepted The God of Wars' present, he decides to stop being nothing and accept The God of Thunders' present with his all
My dad was a hard man, my grandfather was a gentle and loving grandpa, but a cruel father. I don't just mourn my father, I mourn the gentleness he was never given. I mourn the mercy he deserved, they both deserved better. Male generational trauma is a massive theme in this game, and it is handled so much more poetically than you might see at first glance.
I’m iffy on it. Only Demi-gods should have that human side. Gods in general are higher beings, in both body and mind. Their actions shouldn’t really make sense to us.
After Kratos' positive change arc in the last game, transitioning him into a flat arc in Ragnarok was a fantastic choice. Kratos gained wisdom and clarity from his son, and now his main goal is to bring that wisdom to as many people as he can. This is what sets him on the path of becoming king of the gods, shown in the final prophecy.
Kratos still has an arc in Ragnarok. He goes from clinging to Atreus to keep him safe to understanding that to truly love his son, he has to learn to let go. He learns that he has to trust that the lessons he taught Atreus will carry him through his own adventures and learn to trust his son's judgment. This whole game's theme is that the flipside of love is loss.
I’m an alcoholic in recovery. Playing this game and witnessing Thor’s struggle was not only tremendously triggering, but extremely relatable. They did an incredible job at portraying the consequences of alcoholism on both the alcoholic and their loved ones. “What’s one more broken promise?” “Grandfather treated you like crap, you were struggling, I get it…but you can’t just- we’re here for you. Even when you’re here. We love you, you know that. I just thought that this was behind us” followed by the “I fucked up” hit me right in the fucking soul. Very well written and very emotional.
I kind of imagine that Thor is what Kratos would've ended up like if he was raised as an Olympian. Zeus probably would've treated Kratos exactly the same way Odin does to Thor if he had him since birth: An attack-dog that he can lead around and sic on whoever he says. I like to believe Kratos is aware of this on some level and it's partially why he's more patient & sympathetic with Thor compared to other gods he fights.
Kratos is based on mythological Cratus (at least his name) and Cratus is basically Zeus's dog. He fought for him it Titanomachy despite being titan himself, imprisoned Prometheus and acts like Zeus's bodyguard
Kratos was at least Olympus' attack dog for 10 years of his life. 10 years of serving the Gods for empty promises made him an ever more violent and cynical man. At the start of his journey he had sympathy for bystanders but by the time of the first game, and even more so by the 3rd, everyone, and everything, was expendable. All except for Pandora. If Kratos hadn't met Pandora he wouldn't have been able to overcome Zeus, because he chose to change in that moment. He chose to move on, believe that he can moove on from what he did to his family. He never truly forgives himself, but he is willing to do better, rather than wallow in grief.
The final exchange with Thor and Kratos is probably my favorite writing in the game. Two tools created to destroy, who lived only the warriors path, two men certain they could not break that chain that led them from one slaughter to the next. But even though they were weapons they found solace, found love had children and attempted to *be better* despite constantly falling back into old habits. Whereas Kratos broke free from those who would gaslight and prevent his attempts at change Thor is stuck being manipulated and it's just brilliant writing that when Thor was ready to break free he's killed. He's denied that potential happy ending. It's a Greek tragedy for a Norse god
Forgot to mention that they both actually enjoyed murdering those people before they were in personal consequences. Thor never questioned his actions till his kids died and kratos never questioned anything till he murdered his own family. They were both perfectly fine with where they were. Which shows that they aren't good people either.
@@gurnoorsekhon6402 nothing for the condemned greek pantheon sadly. It's an aspect I really hope we revisit, it would be a great way for him to truly on screen face everything he did. Still I think what he has learned and his choice to become the rebuilder of a ruined world has shown him reject and condemn himself for what he was and atone by being what he is now, a god who cares as oppose to a blood drunk monster who destroys. Killing the god he was is a start to making things right.
At first I thought Thor was just this angry dad avenging his sons death. Then we realise he’s looked down by his dad who manipulates and essentially calls him stupid, knows nothing but smashing things. But I love how we see the humanity of Thor. I wouldn’t say he’s a bad person as such but he had a terrible upbringing taught only to kill and destroy, like kratos. I’m glad he finally stood up to his dad at the end but at the cost of death.
Thor's whole story reminds me of a story of the elephant tied to a pole. A baby elephant is tied to a flimsy pole, and can't break free, and is beaten everytime it tried. The elephant grows up and can easily break the pole, but it's conditioned not to even try. Thor is the same way. If anyone in the 9 realms even has a shadow of a chance of breaking from Odin's chains, it's him. He's the only one with enough power to do it. It's probably part of the reason Odin abuses him so harshly even compared to his other sons.
That reminds me of another quest in the game: Kratos attempts to free a Lindbaker, an island sized whale, from captivity. But it’s been so used to being abused that it stays there.
“Don’t you know what ive done??” “Yes. But what will you do now?” that line will always stick with me. as a former drug addict, for a long long time i believed it was just in my nature to destroy relationships with others and ruin things, until I finally quit and truly worked on myself for the first time in my life. You decide your path. there is no need to hold on to so much shame and misery throughout your life. “For the sake of our children, we must be better.”
I think the most interesting relationship Thor has is with his sons. The way Magni and Modi function alongside each other makes it seem like a classic "golden child" situation, and Thor's own relationship with his father and how toxic parenting can be a cycle tracks, but the way he and Sif reminisce about them doesn't. They talk about them like they were little angels, and when Thor confronts Atreus he says "Modi may have had some problems but he was my son." I think how Odin treated him as a tool warped him so much that when his son tells him of his eldest's death, he reacts like the belligerent drunk Odin conditioned him to be. Magni thirsted for a challenging fight because he got it from his father. Modi desperately wanted Thor's validation, much like Thor did with Odin. Thor likely treated him so poorly because he was such a visceral reminder of his own failings, even looking most like him. Beating Modi might have even been a way at lashing out at the parts of himself he hated the most. Despite his own flaws Thor genuinely loved both his sons, but his inability to grow from Odin's abuse allowed the qualities forced onto him to permeate onto them. It's only after they die he begins to better himself with traits that unfortunately could have bettered the lives of his sons, if only he'd begun to improve sooner.
Mimir actually has a line about this in GOW4. He literally called it toxic masculinity; "a grim inheritance, leaving them all the poorer" very relevant message today
I always took the sequence of thor directing his anger at Atreus as Thor not truly hearing Sif. She directly says “our children were thrown at the All-Father’s problems” and the appearance of Sif towards the end solidified her as being a voice of reason
He heard her all and well. But like what Thor said in his last encounter with Odin. "Sif was right about you. I just don't want to see it" He deliberately convince himself Odin did the right thing.
I'm have an issue with alcoholism and seeing Thor coming from the same place me and many others like me have gone and trying and failing multiple times struck a nerve. Not because it was bad, but because I know what it's like to be there. I was in his shoes and he's in mine. And hearing his daughter breate him, barely having the pateince to stomach it anymore made me cry. I don't have a supportive family with my struggles, but my friends often are the ones encourging me be better. I failed mutiple times, failing now, but I know I do not want to reach that point; where the people who saw me be able to beat this lose so much faith in me that they barely have anything else to say other than "we're here." We can do it. to all my fellow alcoholics, we can do it!
Even when he's not even trying in a fight (when working with Atreus to retrieve mask fragments). Thor is a powerhouse. He can kill anything in 1 or 2 hits, busts through walls like they're nothing. In the fight with Kratos at the start of Ragnarok even if he's not trying, he's a frightening enemy.
8:37 I love how this scenes really portrays the difference between kratos and Thor, Thor puts mjiolnir in the table agressively and like he doesn't care about his weapon, while kratos puts the Leviathan axe calmly and is caring about his weapon, just a simple scene can tells so much about 2 characters
@@Volkswagen_will I mean he hates them, sure he uses them but its clear he HATES the blades, they're a reminder of the monster he was and wants to move away from, the Axe is a weapon given to him out of love, the weapon of his dead wife, he loves the weapon as its basically the last part of her that exists he can still hold.
@@ItsButterBean1020 agreed, he looked really cool and maybe he could’ve just taken the armour of during the fight as Kratos broke it in phase transitions
Intellectual proise... Thoughtful commentary... Careful Analysis... Then, "Not only are Thor's sons dead, but they suuuucked..." and then "Freya, her son, Baldur, is dead; and even when he was alive, he sucked." I was caught so off-guard by this. I loved it!
One thing I'd like to mention is that in the final battle with Thor, he doesn't seem to be fighting entirely for Odin's sake, but Thrud's. He seems to notice Thrud is with Kratos, and he ignores everything else going on to battle the danger by his daughter. The man just sent a massive snake with the soul of a giant back in time, and he goes to protect his daughter. I think it's also part of the reason he's willing to listen when given mercy. He was fighting for Thrud, the kin he can raise right, and he was given the actual enemy of his family. Not Kratos, but Odin. So he plan's to keep fighting for his family, but finally in the right way. At least that's how I interpreted it.
What makes his drinking even more tragic is that as a God You're pretty much unkillable and ageless from normal things such as drinking and smoking. We don't know how old he is in the God of War games but could you imagine how long he's made his family suffer because of his addiction? Having an alcoholic father is terrible now imagine that for over a thousand years and no matter how hard and deep you get into the bottle It won't kill you.
I would have loved to see how him and Baldur interacted in Asgard. I’d imagine they have some sort of understanding given how the mistakes of their respective parental figures have emotionally crippled them.
Well in god of war 2018 Modi asks why their father has sent them to Midgard with Baldur, says that he is fucked up in the head. Magni says it's because Thor trusts Baldur, showing that Thor cares about Baldur.
@@Errorvirus404 And it's get quite sad when it's said that Thor tried to help Baldur go through that situation. Thor trully cared for his family, even Modi whom was said to be a mess of a person
This would be interesting because it seems Baldur didn’t love Thor despite Thor loving his brother Baldur seems to consider his brother more bloodthirsty then him which could be implying he’s distasteful of Thor. But then the latter is clearly fond of Baldur, even ordering his sons to serve him because Thor trusts Baldur
There is actually a piece of dialogue between Mimir and Atreus that's easy to miss, which talks about the reason Thor is so different compared to when Mimir knew him. Mimir is surprised to hear Sif no longer drinks, remarking that she was apparently as much of a drinker as Thor was back when Mimir was in Asgard, and that both she and Thor raised their sons brutally. Atreus and Mimir speculate that since it seems more recent for Thor, Sif may have been the reason, deciding to go sober in the hope of being a better parent to her daughter than she was to her sons, and that she made an ultimatum to Thor about his drinking, following what he did to Magni. That all fits very neatly with your analysis.
ok so that's why she reminds me of suburban moms who abuse anti-depressants. She was doing the Norse equivalent of chasing Percocets with tequila to deal with Odin's bullshit.
When Sif is talking to Odin, The voice acting I love is when Oden says “ And your husband...started drinking on his own” With Oden’s voice pausing at first and then raising it up to end the conversation. To me this is the best line acted from Oden because it’s subtle Yeah it shows that “ had no choice mentality” Odin believes for himself. In that small pause he realizes that he made his son miserable, purposefully Edging him to drink. But for obvious reasons he doesn’t confront this idea and instead double down on it being purely Thor’s choice rather than his manipulation based on how he raises his voice and stops the conversation. To me the small paws actually humanizes Odin by giving him a drop of regret for what he purposefully did and then completely neglecting it a second later. That whole line is a microcosm of him although being the leader thinking that the external events around him are forcing him To do horrible things when in reality that isn’t true. That line and His last words to Thor truly make the ultimate antithesis to Kratos as a father and to the story as a whole. Both he and Kratos could say that they are justified in their actions to do horrible things for the sake of their families. However unlike Katos who’s learned Through several games with that mindset ultimately leads, Oden is, For the most part, Been in a stable position of power or he doesn’t need to question the ethics of his actions but still knows something is wrong. And rather than confronting this denial and questioning what he’s doing, He instead doubled down Resulting in Everyone else being miserable because of authority. Overall, This drop of doubt and him constantly trying to avoid it Separates Odin from being a far greater antagonist and Zeus was. We get hints of Zeus being kind but we never actually see it, as Zeus is always 100% with himself with all the actions he takes. It makes Odin such a humanized character as he found himself in this position where he doesn’t need to question his own actions but still feels like something is wrong. Only for him to immediately push those feelings aside and continue being a great antagonist.
Odin also works as a shadowy reflection of Atreus: He has a thirst for knowledge, he is willing to lie to get what he desires and acts just like Atreus when he was revealed he was a God. The key difference is that Atreus has a sense of responsibility.
Odin's like Kratos in that he's so obsessed with a goal he'll refuse to change or listen to his conscience. The difference is that Kratos is ultimately willing to change in the end, whereas Odin refuses.
Odin is a master at gaslighting. It doesn't matter if what Odin says is true as long as Thor is convinced that it MIGHT be true. What makes Thor's death so tragic is that Odin made sure he SUFFERED even at the end.
I just wanna add this to the analysis. In the bar scene it was the moment when Thor just give up on being better, he accepted to what he has become and think to himself he can't change at all so you have to imagine how many times he tried to better himself only for Odin to crush that.
I’ve seen people wondering why Kratos invited Thor in. Kratos was raised in a Greece when hospitality was a sacred duty in almost every human community in earth. Xenia says ‘Thor asked to come in from a storm’ and that’s more or less the end of it until Thor attacks.
I think the moment where Kratos chose not to kill Thor is what saved him from death. Should he have killed Thor, Odin would have shown up to see it and then twist it to Thrud, leading both her and her mother to team up with Odin against Kratos. Since Kratos didn't kill Thor, Odin was alone in the last battle and had to fight uphill so to speak.
Yep, that's almost certainly the reason the figure in the prophecy looks like Kratos at first glance. Kratos was on track to end up that way. Thrud wielding Mjolnir teaming up with Odin while Atreus and probably Kratos are both avoiding going all out against her? Kratos is possibly more dangerous than Odin, but an enraged Thrud is absolutely way more dangerous than base form Atreus holding back. That likely would have been what turned the tables and got Kratos killed.
That... makes sense, actually. Thor made it very clear that he was a threat to Atreus, just like Heimdall did. I could absolutely see Kratos decided to end the threat if he wasn't determined to be better.
I find it interesting that the first fight against Thor isn't to test you, but moreso for Thor to see his sons did not die weak and useless like Odin said. That's why he instantly backs off when you go into spartan rage and says "consider the debt paid". Thor merely wants to justify that his boys did not die in vain
Seeing thrud confronting Thor in the pub was too painfully relatable, to anyone who's had a parent who struggles with alcohol seeing them relax is incredibly painful. All of thruds lines hit me like a truck.
Brett, I would absolutely love a video on Freya. I think she has one of the most interesting arcs in this game and your excellent character analysis needs her.
I identify with Thor quite a lot,not the alcoholic part,but his _brokenness_ his inability to think for himself and thinking he can't change,I struggled with that for so long,and just like Thor I struggled through it,not by going against my father,but by going against my _mother_ who treated me almost like Odin did Thor,she thinks,I do what she needs done (chores and such,I was the workhorse of the whole house,did literally everything on my own) and I don't talk back or risk being grounded (I was once grounded for a year and a half for "talking back" to her) and when I finally took a stand against her I did so with the help of my father,who has always been by my side to help,and I have learned so much through him teaching me that he is almost a better teacher than any teacher I'd ever had in school,but I am glad to say that,unlike Odin,my mother has taken a turn for the better,she recognizes that she had issues,and she actually fixed them,and I feel like I can love her again because of her picking herself up out of her old ways,this video made me think about that the whole time,and if a video can hit that close to reality when speaking about a digital representation of an old Norse god then perhaps the old gods were more relatable than anyone ever thought
What I noticed about Thor is how he always has two expressions on his face. He either looks sad and desperate like a puppy dog or angry like when he’s fighting kratos. This perfectly shows how he has been completely deprived of happiness in his life and has nothing left to do but do whatever Odin wants.
What makes Ragnarök even more special personally is because it marked 2023 as my improvement year, of course I started my improvement right off the bat and not wait for this year but this game motivated me to become strong, take care of myself, make most of my growing years to become as good of a father as I can with an abusive father of my own, one that is like Thor: Violence as a first or second resort, alcoholic and depressing childhood/backstory. Difference being Thor ending up better. Thor's character is what I wanted for my father (except the death part) that instead of focusing on their own problems, focusing on his family. I see why he ended up the way he did but as a parent, it is his job to keep the family whole, keep them safe, train them for survival. Not lead to the emotions Thrud feels after the bar fight. Disclaimer: I am aware parents are humans too and should be respected but he introduced me to problems of his own that a boy in his teen years shouldn't know of. I already had problems of my own, going through depression yet all he ever talked about was problems HE had, not what I did. He teached me important lessons but left scars that I will feel forever. No parent should put weight on their children's mind. Invite them to business that isn't theirs, or not for their age.
@@AnandaHaikal Thanks! And what also makes my life connect with the GoW story even more is the fact my father's father was abusive, had bad father & son relationship and that dragged along mine. I'll do my best to become a good father or at least a mentor to a cousin or someone else if I don't end up becoming a father. As Kratos said, the cycle ends here.
@@valiantti9261 Don't let my comment depress you, what's done is done. It does not make it OK, I know, but there's no going back. We can only go forward in time and we must follow it. Think it this way: My depressing childhood turned me from a spoiled brat and a bully into an empathic, kind yet aggressive person.
Stay strong man. Something that is working for me is to keep a diary where i keep track of gow many days i keep staying away from drugs and alcohol. And when I commit mistakes due to lack of self control I write it and try to rationalize it, aiming to ve better.
@@josev.8180 Kinda similiar with me. I myself am writing a book series, full of diverse characters that have different problems, some that others can relate to. To add some epicness and action, I made it a fantasy series with elemental powers with familiar and new species, not original concepts but quite original abilities and cultures. I'm proud you have found a way to express yourself, to calm your rage and avoid alcohol. You stay strong too, brother.
I believe that the new God of War is essentially a story about fatherhood and masculinity. Many people rightly point out how bad toxic masculinity is, and the terrible consequences that come from it. But our society today has seemingly thrown out the baby with the bathwater, and declared all masculinity bad. I feel like the new GoW, and Ragnorok in particular, is a response to the massive void in men’s lives at the moment, left by our culture trying to teach us that all masculinity is toxic masculinity, and by the toxic masculinity we’ve experienced from our fathers. Many of us grew up with terrible fathers, or no fathers at all. And Odin embodies that role. Overbearing, belittling, emasculating, dominating, close minded, swift to judgment. And it makes Thor into who he is. A father trying to be who his family needs, but unable to overcome the trauma his father put him through. It’s no coincidence that Thor is a recovering alcoholic, especially since alcohol is the most common way men deal with the abuse they faced by the hands of their fathers. However, Kratos represents the ideal we should all strive towards. He overcame his past trauma, faced his fears and shortcomings, and is the father that his son needs him to be. Strong, protective, understanding, encouraging, slow to judgment, instructive, dependable, admits his mistakes, and is a role model for Atreus. GoW shows us just how important healthy masculinity and good fatherhood is to the world. Men are needed. Real men. And good fathers are absolutely essential to the lives of their families, but in particular, their sons. It’s a vicious cycle that pushes out bad father after bad father if the cycle remains intact. However, the cycle can always be broken. But it has to start with us. We have to step up, face our traumas, and become the fathers we never had. For the sake of our children. We. Must. Be. Better.
idk if its a joke or it came from the developers but the recent God of War story happened supposedly because the developers and the players of the original trilogy are fathers now and these are the stories that would resonate with them
I absolutely adore Thor's depiction in this game, easily one of my favorite characters in this game and I always found his story so fascinating. Love the video man
18:47 PEOPLE SAY THIS??? I love the Atreus sections! Getting to interact with all of the God's in Asgard is so much fun to me. They feel like some of the strongest parts in the game from a story and character development stand point. The only section I don't like is with Angroboda, because that whole part feels very dragged out.
Even though Odin’s offer in the beginning of the game was tempting and he seemed somewhat sincere, the more I thought on how he treated Thor and the way he spoke of his own kin made me realize he couldn’t be trusted. Someone who was that abusive and cruel to his own family was a bad man, period.
I struggle with depression and unhealthy coping mechanisms myself. Thor, despite being a god is very relatable to me. As when he says "no thinking". I feel that. As I think I am very stupid, I don't like to think. So it was like looking into a mirror with Thor. My favorite character in Ragnarok.
Thor is absolutely my favorite character from the Aesir, and probably from the series. Growing up with an alcoholic father has allowed me to see things from Thrúd’s view, where she’s been betrayed and her father’s lost a ton of her trust. But also growing up severely depressed and only coping with drugs has also put me in Thor’s shoes. I’ve had the “We’re here for you, even when you’re *here*.” speech. It’s just so conflicting to see from a third perspective. His sudden ending on top of that just ties the story together as extremely bittersweet. Comfortingly tragic.
8:26 I think it might actually be a little deeper than that, I think Thor wanted to remind him of what it means to be a destroyer and all the pain that comes with it once you've realized you're a monster, because when Thor is sober that's probably all he can think about. Being a bad father, a wound-up tin soldier of his abusive father, a walking essence of death that affects even his family.
It's still really depressing that the moment Thor finally realized that he has the power within himself to stand up to Odin and find his redemption / confidence / masculinity again from Kratos' words it's immediately robbed from him, just like his family was robbed from him. Like Thrud said "mom and I are here for you we just want you to be there" and now he's gone from them forever sure his memory and sacrifice won't be forgotten but it's still sad that the moment he could have finally been better towards the remaining family he had left was immediately taken from him by Odin
I always thought that Sif knew how manipulative Odin was, and decided to try to give Thor a real-time example of his manipulation. She calls out Odin directly for letting Areus live, despite promising that no more Aesir blood would be spilled. She continues to use familial language to hit home just how important Heimdall and Thrud should be to Odin, and he just bullies her into silence. Her approaching Thor felt like a sort of wake-up call. Idk, I feel like if we got more screentime with her, maybe we would have gotten a bit more context.
Thor was so genuinely well done in this. I went into Ragnarok guns blazing ready to murder the shit out of him, but by his death, I was genuinely sad. Maybe it's me also being a father, but I was a little heartbroken when he died, especially at the hand of his father.
I mean, he did execute genocides on hundreds and thousands of people, sure odin was the mastermind, but the deaths were by his hand as well, i personally think letting him live after that and having a nice little life with his family wouldn't be a good ending imo
Nice breakdown. This made me sad that Thor was killed in the end. He would have made for a powerful ally of Kratos and Atreus, in spite of his sons being killed by the two of them. It made me also wish that these games could have been split in two somehow - Thor being the end boss of the first half and Odin, the second half. Thor's inevitable death was a bit overshadowed by the sudden fight with Odin at the end. A small critique of mine even though it was all great nonetheless.
Another small bit of characterization that I think is significant, both the Leviathan Axe and Mjolnir come to their wielders when called, but Kratos and Thor each do it differently. Thor snaps his fingers, and Mjolnir comes, which gives me the mental image of a trained dog or servant. Kratos, however, holds out his open hand. It's a similar gesture in nature, but that feels much gentler to me, like he's asking if the Axe would come to him and, if it were sapient enough to be able to choose, it could choose not to. It may be nothing, there may not be anything here, but this is something I'm choosing to believe is noteworthy.
In my opinion Thor is a more combatant and agressive one, when you hear him clacking his fingers you feel dread. Kratos is like his whole character, silent and controlled, but just as lethal
Thor can actually summon his hammer without snapping his fingers, he did it after Atreus and Thud pulled him out of that bar/pub/hall back on Asgard. I think he just does it for a bit of dramatic flare, like he can summon death with a snap of the fingers.
I always thought of Thor's character like Kratos, when he served Ares. If Ares never tricked kratos into killing his family then Kratos would have definitely turned like Thor a depressed person regretting his promise & needless killing of the greeks and being disconnected with his family.
The way Kratos responded to the loss of everything he cared about, was more akin to how Freya reacted more than Thor. Blind Fury but specifically vengeance, not just violent, but specifically hunting those who wronged him.
One thing I feel like I noticed in the first scene we get with Odin and Thor, Odin's eyepatch is what faces Thor, as if he puts in actual effort into going to tell him that he's "no fun anymore". Then, when Atreus finishes the mask, Thor is on the side where Odin's good eye is, making it as if he's putting conscious effort in ignoring Thor. Could just be me overthinking and missing details but if it is a detail that is consistent then I'm happy to have noticed although somebody else has probably pointed it out somewhere already.
Fun fact: the reason modi Got so suprised of kratos killing magni was beacuse prophecy Said that the sons of Thor would survive ragnarök, wich also means kratos killing Heimdall wasnt the first time he stood against fate
That's why Modi's words were "How did you-" when Magni died. Not something like "How could you" like when Atreus was talking to Odin at the end. He was in disbelief because of the prophecy that he'd believed in for so long was broken just like that.
It's also probably another reason why Magni and Modi are both incredibly reckless when fighting, and generally assholes. Up until Magni dies, they've lived believing that they will not and can not die. Why should they try and actually train or learn how to fight? They're guaranteed to survive Ragnarok. Why shouldn't they do or take whatever they want? They're the ones who get to shape what comes after the end of the realms, who's to tell them no or stop them. And then Modi learned in that instant that everything he'd believed about himself and his brother was wrong. If he wasn't such a piece of crap, I'd pity the guy.
I was worried at first the narrative was making everything Odin's fault, and as a consequence the nuance of the other characters and their moral ambiguity would be lessened. Then I caught this series, looked back at the games, and realized the other gods are deeply flawed too, but the thing that sets them apart is they're trying to be better. Odin refuses to acknowledge his mistakes exist, let alone accept them. Freya, Thor, Mimir, Brok and Sindri, all made bad decisions in the past, but at least they're trying to make up for it.
As a daughter with an alcholoic father, the story of Thor and Thrud really spoke to me. And I love how you state that while it is an absolute bummer we didn't get to see Thor live in making his choices and finally standing up to Odin, it will live on and be reflected in Thrud with her actions and the story. And honestly, that's deep
Love how in the old games, kratos was considered pretty tall and foreboding, but in the new ones when put next to Thor and Tyr and a couple other gods he is short af😂. Nice touch or realism as the Greeks were actually fairly short while the Norse were tall af
The norse were 5'7 on average,the notion of them being tall and massive contradicts like almost all norse skeletons that have been found and measured although some big ass norse people did probably exist or maybe everyone else was just really short in comparison back in the day
I honestly can say that Thor's broken life is something that I can relate to. My entire childhood, I struggled to express personal agency. I am autistic and I was frequently placed in classrooms with special education teachers that punished me for any and all creative measures I took to manage my autism and later on my PTSD. I once tried to use my writing in fourth grade to keep a log of my anger, my personal ups and downs, and just my everyday life. My fourth grade teacher could not stand the idea that I was outside her control and she shredded every page of that journal in front of me. I could not be safe in my own thoughts and I did not write anything for the most part for the next five years. I was basically relegated to having my talents be shaped by ignorant assholes who declared that I didn't understand myself, other people, or even my own disability. I had no escape from their control or influence, all while they claimed that what they were doing was in my best interests. Odin pulled the same shit with Thor. Quashed any and all persona agency within his son.
I am so sorry you had to go through that. Your authority figures had no excuse for such blatantly stupid behavior. Every kid is different and no two have the same exact talents. The best teacher realizes what their student's talent is and cultivates that within them.
@@venjustice6666, I'm doing better. Still rough sometimes, but I'm doing better. Building more boundaries with my folks and respecting my own limits more.
Bro, the amount of self-control, restraint, and reflection that held thor back from turning the house into a crater was insane. And when he called off the fight, he had to muster the sane energy so he didn't go too far because he was thinking about the bigger picture of what would happen to his family of something happened
When Sif tries to have Atreus taken and when she speaks to Thor, I originally saw it as her just trying to get revenge for her sons, but rewatching it I realize she was trying to show her Thor to stop listening to Odin.
I always found it interesting that Atreus tried to talk up Thor to Odin, he knows Odin and Thor don’t get along. He also knows he would be better off by sucking up to Odin, but I don’t think he was lying. I think he was talking about how he understood his own father a little better, and trying to convey that to Thor’s father. It’s very Freudian.
I think one of my favorite things about this game was the way they changed my expectations almost immediately on who he was going to be in the first game everything you hear about him makes him seem like he's going to be this terrible horrible awful person. And then in this game when he comes and visits your house and offers you a drink it struck me it's so strange I was expecting him to tear down the door and begin fighting but to calmly walk in and offer a drink? This was not the terrible giant killer monster god I'd heard of from the first game.
Unfortunately my first time seeing Thor from this game was from a leak before the game came out and it was a screenshot of when he says “nice place” to Kratos. When I first saw that I was in complete shock and confusion. Like you I thought all Thor was going to be was some insurmountable force that would provide an awesome boss fight or two and not much else. Boy was I wrong..
Didn't mean those things he did didn't happen. My first impression was fear none the less. Once he was inside sitting across from kratos I was just on the edge of my seat saying "fucking shit dude were sitting across from a fucking mass murderer* lol
Thruds and Sifs voice actresses are so good despite not being in the game much, especially in the case of latter, the emotion and sadness and desperation and angry that they express to Odin, Atreus-Loki, and Thor is brilliant.
Awesome video! Only thing I want to add on, is that during the final fight against Thor, he is quite possibly at his most vulnerable mentally. As you said about their first fight, Thor was at his most powerful when fighting Kratos for the first time in game. It's the only time we really see him at even a small amount of confidence. In the final fight, he's so mentally torn, that he constantly externalizes his inner struggles. "He almost had me believing things could change!" During this fight, he may not be pulling his punches, but he's already lost the fight mentally. Having no confidence drains him of any real chance of beating Kratos at this point. Luckily though, it gives Kratos that chance to get through to Thor and help him change.
I don't get people who complain about the Atreus sections. My only complaint is the combat was a bit underwhelming especially when you've become used to the gigachad Kratos himself but they actually made Odin my favourite character in the game. I'm a fan of the calculated manipulator characters and his comments about Magni and Modi actually made me laugh because I totally agreed. Still a messed up thing to say in front of your son (their father) though.
his jotunheim section was extremely dragging and further a waste when it can't be accessed again as kratos, minus angrboda's house but he can only walk around and nothing else they spent too much time in areas that will get locked off after completing them rather than the permanent ones like muspelheim and niflheim
My only problem with atreus part was ironwood. The other ones are fine, since they are not much long and show us other charcters interactions like Odin, Thrud, and even Freya and Jormungander. Ironwood is just Atreus and Angrboda for a long time
@@tatersalad76 it's for the sake of free-roaming replayability just let it open for that never asked for a story retcon or anything I hate that they locked off most of helheim, upper wildwood and all the lower one too idc if it makes no sense for kratos to return there free-roaming there shouldn't cause an issue
“…No.”
That’s a perfect last word for Thor. He may have been killed by Odin, but he died refusing to continue being a killer and a drunk.
I think he already knew he was dead the moment he said that word.
But damn it must have felt good to finally say it to him.
I think it really ties into Kratos also finally changing and telling Atreus to open his heart and stand up to the real emotions we feel in the face of oppression. We don't want revenge and more pain, we want justice and peace to put an end to the chaos. Thor died a man who stood up for everything at the very climax and was willing to die to fix himself for his remaining child. Kratos was also able to finally step back and give Atreus the chance to make his own choices and seek justice for his friends instead of revenge for themselves. Really inspiring and useful in real life situations
It's also delivered in the same way that Kratos said it to Odin when they first met. Good little callback
@@randomcenturion7264this.
The only downside is leaving Thrud without her father. :(
A real waste he had to go out that way.
What's fascinating to me is how Thor seems to feel a sort of kinship with Kratos. "We are destroyers," he tells him. He sees a reflection of himself in Kratos. Nobody else was able to get through to Thor. Atreus came the closest, but Thor just fell back under Odin's thumb. But Kratos? The god with what is probably the most violent past out of anyone else in the story? If Kratos looks Thor in the eyes, makes the choice to be nonviolent, and tells Thor to do the same... what excuse does Thor have not to change?
Which he did try but odin took his life instead so he never got the chance to go through with the change
It's a tragedy.. really. Would have been awesome to have been able to team up with Thor against Odin.
We already had two other teammates in the final battle. What's one more?
well you know what happened after
@@unicornpower2411 I grew up under someone as emotionally abusive and controlling as Odin, and even that small moment, when Thor stopped, and said no, that was a change so unprecedented and inconceivable, Odin could not have imagined it. And Thor saw that Odin had never imagined that Thor could have a will of his own, could have control over his own fate... which now that I think of, Odin never did have. The moment that may have been small, but it was unbelievably important. Had Thor lived, that would not have been the last time he said no, and certainly not the last time he chose nonviolence.
@@unicornpower2411 remember the end of the video: Thor's final choice lives on with his daughter because he is a father who did his best to be better, which will have tremendous impact.
The whole "you could've told me before I poured" line went over my head. I didn't realize that he didn't intend to drink and that he'd poured for Atreus and Kratos rather than for Kratos and himself
in all honesty, I think Kratos thought that too lmfao which is why he didn't stop him. Atreus thought it too. he set the cups down in front of the two adults. Kratos let Thor pour for two adults. Thor poured for the people whose home he was in.
definitely an intentional sequence by the director and writers
@@brandimullins8813I think that adds to the 'Just being polite' line, he was trying to be a good guest, and had brought the mead as a gift for the people he was visiting. He absolutely would have gone at the conversation in a way of 'You beat my boys, I want to see what they lost to.' And frankly I can see it at least being less aggressive until he needed to push it. Odin walking in and pulling his bs? That added a bit more gasoline to the explosion.
I haven't played the Dad & Boy games, but Thor's hesitation before pouring the second cup puzzles me. Was he questioning if he was right to pour for a kid? Or was that something Odin possibly requested him to do and was having second thoughts about?
Either way, it was odd.
@@jokhard8137 it's more like he wasn't sure how old Atreus was, since aesir live so long age is barely a factor to them. But he also didn't want to leave him out of it and tried being a good guest.
@@darkvizardking69 He poured more the second time, he could've been guestimating how much Kratos would drink.
Just a note: Sif absolutely does blame Odin, not Atreus, for the troubles their family has had in that scene. She first says that Odin isn’t protecting them. Then she points out that Magni and Modi were “Thrown at the All-Father’s problems like brittle knives to a mountain face.” The wording here is very important. It does not sound like she is blaming the mountain face (or the trouble makers) in this analogy, she is blaming the person who threw her sons at those problems (which would be Odin). It’s actually Thor who is so unwilling to place blame on and go after Odin that he turns on Atreus instead.
Additionally, there’s an optional “cutscene” where you can listen in on a conversation between Sif and Thor earlier where she more clearly says that Odin is the cause of their problems and asks Thor “When are you going to stand up to him?”
Edit: this is also reinforced by Thor’s line in the final battle to Odin “Sif was right about you, I just didn’t want to see it”
Yeah it's really Odin's fault that Magni and Modi were killed. Odin knew Kratos' past. He knew that Kratos murdered a whole pantheon of gods. Odin knew what Magni and Modi (and also Baldur) were getting themselves into. He sent them to their deaths, yet Thor didn't want to accept that it was Odin's fault and also a large part his fault and blames Atreus and Kratos for their deaths. Yes Kratos and Atreus were the ones who killed them but they were only trying to defend themselves and was justified.
She still attributes some blame to Atreus, though. Which I guess is understandable from a certain angle since him and Kratos killed her sons, but from their very first interaction she shows animosity towards him, and had no qualms with Thor nearly bashing his head in.
Yes, she knows that Odin was ultimately responsible for their demise, but her grudge against Atreus was very much alive and well.
Realistically though, she did initially blame Atreus. Not because she truly believed he and his father was at fault but because she was afraid of Odin. Later on she quickly realises it was entirely the All-Fker's fault.
@@terkz3566 I honestly don’t think it was blame, just animosity. She doesn’t like one of their enemies who has fought with her family being given safe quarters in her home. She sees it as another eventual calamity that Odin is ultimately responsible for.
In short, she doesn’t like him and wants him gone from her home, but that doesn’t mean she thinks killing him would solve their problems:
Well atreus did hold the knife so she does have a reason to blame Atreus
One thing that I like during the opening scene with Thor is how Kratos treats him like an actual guest. He knows that Thor could start a fight at any moment but those bits of his Greek heritage stuck with him.
Same with how he reacts when he finds out how Freyr was treated in Asgard while being a “guest,” it’s a nice touch that he still has that Greek xenia ingrained in him.
@@dylanwarner7009 Yeah. Another thing I noticed too after rewatching it is when Odin calls Thor's sons "useless." He's not just using it to hurt Thor but he also might mean because they were supposed to survive ragnarok in the original story, he hates that they do something he can't do. My personal theory is that he pointed his grandsons in Kratos' direction because he knew what would happen to them.
@@vectorthedemon3244 True, although considering how much value Odin places value in prophecy perhaps he thought the opposite. If he believes they are foretold to survive Ragnarok, then maybe he thought Kratos wouldn't be able to kill them due to the prophecy?
Considering that Greek xenia was based on the theory that literally any traveller could be an angry thunder God in disguise, one could say that exercising those old habits when confronted with someone he knew for absolute certain was a thunder God was probably a near instinctual response.
The Norse had a very similar tradition in real life. It wasn’t communicated due to everything having to be changed for the game, but the Greek and Norse traditions were based on the same concept, with Odin wandering the realms and being way less of a dick.
As someone who grew up with an alcoholic father. Thor's character hit me harder than I thought. seeing Thrud talk to him after she and Atreus find him drinking, it made me cry. My father tries his best to be better, but you can't change what's already happened. atleast he hasn't been killed by odin, not yet.
Feel that
At the begining of the game, when Thor visits Kratos and he poured 2 drinks, i thought i was one for him and one for Kratos. But rewatching that scene, it was one for Kratos and one for Atreus (Kratos rejects the drink for Atreus). Thor doesnt drink, he just touched and pour some on his hammer. I remember this because, not so obviously he was doing his best to be better for her daugther. The struggle was very well depicted
Goddamn man same
@@hectorado what you fail to realize Odin Manipulated Thor into becoming a weapon. The only time he praised Thor is when he killed someone/ something .I’m sure Odin relationship is the reason he wasn’t so close to his sons and daughter like sif stated he used to be in their lives heavily. U mix constant bashing with pain instead of lashing out , he drinks his sorrows away but he releases his pain but when he’s killing that why before his death he said to kratos “we don’t make change we destroy”.
@@daedae556 Bro, that sentence is all over the place
Never noticed this until now but i love how Kratos had his hand on his axe but once he saw Thor put his hammer on the table he did the same. That perfectly sums up Kratos character now. Hes understanding and willing to compromise but if you wanna get busy, then he’ll do that to without hesitation.
Thor also slammed mjolnir down, while Kratos sets down the Leviathan Axe
Yet they make a pretty similar amount of noise
@@tacticallemon7518 I think it's because it was said that the axe was made to be either the equal or the better of Mjolnir
also,kratos has his hand off of the axe for the conversation, and only grasps his weapon when Odin places his shoulder on Atreus
Similarly, when Baldur in GOW 2018 says "a 2nd bed? who are you hiding?" and when Thor says "Your boy? The Allfather has plans for him!" kratos unlocks his rage. It's the first time we see Kratos use spartan rage in GOW4, and it's what satisfies Thor
Kratos uses the same destructive rage as a means for protection, not for vengeance. He's doing it for his son
truly beautiful writing
Game theory
Youre right, he's more willing to match energy.
"Not only are Thor's sons dead but his sons *SUCKED* "
"Her son Baldur is dead, and even when he was alive, he *SUCKED* "
im sorry, i rlly love this analysis but these two lines so close together killed me 😭
Notice Thor's body language when Thrud says to him "We love you. You know that." You can almost hear him think "I don't deserve you." That hit super hard.
I know, right?
I think there's one thing that might be overlooked in the initial fight against Thor. I think sure, there is some elements of him just wanting to cut loose and fight, but I get the sense it's much more about his sons, and not necessarily in the sense of getting revenge for them.
Odin's line "Death is what we Aesir live for", like every manipulation he uses, has a ring of truth: Thor isn't REALLY angry that his sons died, he's more angry with himself for failing them. He wants proof that they died worthy deaths, not that they went out like weak "useless" losers (like Odin says). In pushing Kratos to reveal himself, Thor gets to see Kratos' strength, sees the god that his sons fell to in glorious battle...and he's satisfied, in a way. Yes, they died, but they died fighting in a battle that most people or even Aesir could only dream of: a fight against the god-killer from another land, that would eventually go on to kill Odin himself.
One of them, the other got killed by a 12 year old
Great analysis
This is a good one
And it's only when Sif reminds him how they were as children does he seem to to focus on the fact that they died rather than how they died. Unfortunately this leads him to focus on Atreus rather than Odin who Sif was trying to get him to target his anger at.
@@christopherlewis6915 but i think in game they don't know that
Another subtle thing that goes to show just how abusive and controlling Odin in to Thor is in that very same scene with the two of them and Atreus after returning with the repaired mask. Odin is jovial and welcoming to Atreus because he accomplished the task he set him out to do, saying self-congratulatory things like "See, don't we make a great team?"
But then Thor decides to take a small shot at his father by saying "Just like you and Baldur?" Thor questioned Odin's leadership and judgement, if ever so briefly. That single act of mild-defiance instantly turned Odin's mood sour, more businesslike. Cold. Gone is the good-natured man who was basking in the glory of success, replaced by the abusive, condescending manipulator who insults Thor, scoffing at the notion he could have taught Atreus anything of value. The second Thor showed signs of individuality, of attempting to stand up for himself, Odin immediately had to shoot it down in order to maintain control.
Even the way Odin was bragging about what a "great team" he and Atreus make, it felt almost like he was rubbing it in Thor's face. As if he wanted Thor to feel worthless and unvalued. As if to say, "this new kid that just got here is far more valuable to me than you are!"
It obviously upset Thor enough to make the jab about Baldur, as you said. Thor wasn't a good person by any measure, but watching the way his father treated him was heartbreaking.
Just to tag on to what you said (great btw!)I think Thor was a great storyline to show along Kratos' path. Thor and Kratos have a lot in common.
Zeus was Kratos' Odin.
I think he finds a kinship and an understanding in Thor and sees how easily he could have become just like him, but he found a path for himself with his mantra of, "We must be better" and wants better.
You can see moments where he almost loses his anger and could have easily given into the anger and treated Atreus like Thor did his sons. Kratos not only breaks his chains that tied him down that path but gave himself new chains to tie down that part of him. Sometimes it's so easy to lose yourself in a moment like that and go down that path but Kratos keeps on keeping on.
It was sad that Thor passed and I wished we got to have a sort of Kratos-Thor side up where they both go around being the justice daddy killing adventure romp (another universe maybe!) but it's better for the story this way.
Thor wanted to change and did before he died, sometimes that's life but at least he did it and it makes it all the more heart wrenching.
These games really resonated with my soul and I paused a lot to cry in them since Kratos and Thor remind me of my dad and family but sometimes that's what's amazing about having characters with flaws, because you can change and be better. You just have to start choosing to. The cycle has to stop some where, we don't have to keep the wheels turning.
God damn, I love the writing of these games
@@warninglion
I know what you mean, my friend
There's something about Sif's character that is actually very subtle, but it expains a lot about her and gives her so much more depth than you'd see at first. She's not an idiot. When you over hear her and Thor's coversations, she seems very aware that Odin is the threat. that's why she doesn't want Thrud to become a Valkyrie. She'd end up just like Magni and Modi. A pawn of Odin. Who throws their children at his problems like brittle knives against a mountain. But at the same time, he's a dictator. a paranoid tyrant who is also known for killing his enemies and being particularly brutal to those who betray him (Mimir) so she cant move against him. She knows he's the bad guy and just as responsible for her sons' deaths as Atreus... she just cant get to Odin...She has to play along, knowing the danger she is in and how powerless she is
Well said
Whereas Baldur is the mirror of Kratos as he was in the original trilogy, Thor is the dark mirror of Kratos as he is in the Norse saga. Like Kratos, he is a god who has a violent and destructive past with lots of blood on his hands. Like Kratos, through love of family he feels a tremendous amount of guilt, sorrow, and self-loathing for what he's done. But unlike Kratos who vowed to never again be a mindless killing machine in the service of another god, Thor is unable to see himself as anything other than a mindless killing machine in the service of another god. He is mentally trapped in that prison, and thus is a far more tragic character than Baldur ever was. When Kratos killed Baldur, I felt immense satisfaction. When Thor was killed by Odin, I felt immense pity.
This is because of odin, kratos had only few gods above him who were ,mediocre, in manipulating, acting as if might make right, odin on the other hand is only using thor,s mind ageinst himself
Thor is kratos if he kept serving his gods
I always tought of him as some kind of mirror to Atreus instead. He has many similarities with Kratos but he also is an example of what Atreus could have become if Kratos hadn't "been better".
@@terriblecompany1588 mimir in this reality: ,,ah yes the olives, i heard about them"
@@Quinyel Yea the few Times we saw little shit atreus in gow4 i wanted to throw him off the highest peak in the realms
Odin saying : "I did not want this." as he kills Thor was genuenly the most disturbing moment in the whole game tbh
It echoes the textbook excuse all manipulators and abusers use when they realise they can't use someone anymore and they get violent to put them in " their place" , that being:
"Why did you make me do this?"
And the fact that Odin then starts shifting the blame on Kratos and Atreus just seals it.
Odin isn't a god, he's *"small covetous tyrant"*
Nothing more, nothing less.
There's a reason Odin is called "All Fucker".
Agreed. It's pathetic. "I did not want this." Then why did you do it, idiot? Lol.
And I believe that’s why Heimdall couldn’t see himself as a bad guy cuss as an *actual narcissist* Odin can’t see himself as the bad guy
@@marlom7882 me being a smartass to Odin: So you are saying you WANT IT NOW? I mean, the past tense and all that.
@@neardarkroad1347 know Odin he would *not* allow that at all. If he couldn’t control you he’d kill you
As a daughter with alcoholic father Thor and Thrud's story hit me very personally. All they say to each other, how Thrud takes a moment to collect herself to reassure her father... I experienced all this personally. And the most hurtful part? Thor did what my father promising to do for years now.
I wish you and ur father the best. Hopefully, one day, he can find the courage to overcome his addiction so that you and him can have a better relationship. I had a female friend who's farther was an alcoholic. The sad part was that her mother died of alcohol poisoning when she was young. After begging and pleading for some time he finally broke down and chose his daughter over alcohol. They have a great relationship now!
I hope your father can move on because you can't be there forever
And I'd hate for him to lose that opportunity to get out of the past
I’m sorry.
Sorry to hear that hopefully everything is good
I absolutely love how they frame Thors final scene in the perspecrive of a third person player. You can practically see the decision wheel, and Thor finally choosing the good options. This is the moment that defines him as his own person. He accepts his value and stands up for himself. The writing...
It’s so beautiful
Man, that "Are you broken?!" line is so absolutely nuts. Odin says it with this level of sincerity and obvious malice that you don't know whether he's seriously asking or if he's just messing with Thor's head again. Or both. Can you imagine speaking like that to another human being? The level of inhumanity and psychopathic mentality Odin has is insane.
*No.*
⚡️🔨
He mentions in the newest Brok video that killing Brok is the most honest Odin ever is, but I think that line is an easy tie.
I think he was asking if he was MENTALLY broken as in PTSD or something similar
And Odin would be written to ask if you're depressed JUST so he can tell you that it's not the time for that and you need to hold yourself together and be strong (for him)
You misread sif, she knows very well that Odin is the problem, she might be afraid of Atreus and Kratos but she correctly identifies the real problem. It's thor who misplaces his judgement and goes after Atreus
She blames atreus for putting thrud in danger, and seeks to kill him for heimdalls death (even though kratos did it) she also blames atreus for making thor miserable (which is Odin's fautl not atreus) and she doesn't try to stop thor when he is about to kill atreus (meaning to some degree she does deem his as the issue) two things can be true at once she thinks odin and atreus are the problem but she is still misguided because she is only half right
@@christopherlewis6915 I think Thor misinterprets Sif’s words, but yeah she definitely thinks Atreus is a threat. Although she understands that Odin is the real threat because he allowed Loki to come to Asgard after his history with their family and after years of hearing of the coming of Loki which I imagine was talked about since Odin is already going on about Loki causing ‘mischief’ as soon as he met him again after coming to Asgard with heimdall (wish the story went into more of what this universe knew about Loki before the first game)
I think she’s trying to tell Thor that Odin will never change since he’s already sending thrud on missions like magni and modi and that things will never change while Odin is in charge. But bringing Valkyries to fight Odin is a pretty stupid idea so Sif wasn’t thinking the situation through clearly.
@Christopher Lewis she does recognize that Odin is the real problem, but also remember atreas killed modi. Her step son. She is understandably very upset at Atreus and see the pain having to work with Atreus brings to Thor. Heck he is sleeping in modi's old room. That cuts deep. It ties into her wanting thor to stand up to odin as well and. "Stand up to your father and kill the man who responsible for our sons death!" She is a complicated character in her own right.
@@dws0828 I don't think they knew anything about loki, that seems like something the jotnar kept under wraps as much as possible. I think using words like mischief and trickster are more of a nod from the writers
@@christopherlewis6915 Would you blame the mountain for blunting the knives thrown at it? Or would you blame the person throwing them?
I think Sif would be alright with Atreus dying there (hence why she doesn't stop him), but the one she REALLY want dealt with is Odin. She says as much later in a dialogue you can miss where she says to Thor in reference to him saying he's trying to keep their family together: "If that were true, you'd stand up to your father for once in your life."
Thor knew what she meant. He just feels like he can't stand up to his father. But that anger's going somewhere, and the only person he feels like he could kill in that room is Atreus.
The scene where Thor is drunk and sitting outside talking to Thrud? That hit hard. That's exactly how my family talks to me and I relate so much to Thor in that position.Hearing how you can do better, hearing from your loved ones that they KNOW you can do better, but how do you believe it yourself? It just makes you seem selfish as if you're not looking out for your loved ones and how your actions, affect them, and then you choose the weak side of giving in to the sadness and starting the drinking cycle all over again.
Super depressing, but yeah they portrayed alcoholism really well and I love Thor's character. Really wish we couldv'e got more development on Sif like you mentioned though, and her relationship with Thor. Would've been so interesting! But I understand why they need to cut down on certain aspects of the game in order to not make it too long.
I suppose it's good from a story telling perspective. Humanizes them. But he's not a person, not a human. Not even a demigod. He's the goddamn god of thunder.
He doesn't just "drink amounts that would kill MOST humans" he drinks amounts that would kill any human. It would actually kill all humans if we split it between us all. He drank the fricken SEA down a noticeable amount. The oceans (but they were mead somehow)
For what it's worth, I hope you're doing better. Overcoming an addiction is no joke.
I’m there now.
My grandmother passed away on the 20th of December. That woman was everything to me. Took me from an abusive home that I would’ve never survived and raised me like I was her own son. For 24 years all I’ve ever wanted was for her to be proud of me, and she was.
She was all I had, every good part of me came from her. Now she’s gone.
I drank before she passed, I’ve always been pretty miserable. When she got sick last summer is when it really picked up. Watching her slowly decline over the next few months until she eventually was just laying there barely breathing.
Some part of me died when she did. That part that was willing to change, willing to at least try to be better.
I don’t have it anymore.
If the ocean was truly made of whiskey, I’d swim to the bottom and never come up.
I won’t lie. The whiskey helps you, but it hurts everyone around you. The disappointment I feel around most of the ones who love me is unbearable.
But I don’t care.
The only person who truly mattered, whose opinion ever mattered, is gone.
She was the only person ive ever been scared of, scared of disappointing, scared of hurting her feelings, scared of letting her see what I was becoming.
Now it doesn’t matter. She’s in a much better place, so now I linger. Until I either get to go where she is, or I go somewhere much warmer.
I can’t see a good way out of this. One that doesn’t involve me piss drunk and vacant.
When they created Thor for this game, they had to have consulted actual alcoholics. People who’ve been there, so low you didn’t even know you could be so low.
Because his character rings true, I see a lot of myself in him. I’m sure many others do too.
He’s the perfect representation of a man who feels like he has nothing, when in reality he has everything he needs right in front of him.
@@jackf1830brother YOU must be better than this. Your grandma would’ve never wanted you to be in this state because of her. For the sake of your family, as I imagine you have one, you must stop. Repent to Jesus Christ and he will save you.
“Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.” - 1 Peter 5:7
Do better brother. You may not be able to do it alone, but Christ is always there for you and will help you through it.
“[You] can do all this through him who gives [you] strength.” - Philippians 4:13
something I just caught.. the "could have told me before I poured" thats because he didnt pour a glass for himself. First was for Kratos, the second for Atreus (hence why he hesitated, wondering for a moment if he was old enough and how much drink he would be able to handle) kratos not letting him serve Atreus means he now has to take one of the glasses for himself, which he would rather have avoided.
originally i thought he did pour for himself (if only as proof that he wasnt serving poison), but its a real nice touch that in fact, he didnt.
And then Odin comes and drinks both cups. Disgusting.
@@pelinalwhitestrake3367 Yep a definite "I own the place" move especially as he entered in uninvited which is already a big no-no when it comes to hospitality.
I never thought thor who is a warrior would try to poison kratos since its often described as a cowards weapon
@@blazethefirekitsune2766 its just something that seemed normal to me sicne they arent in friendly terms, and Kratos would have good reasons to be weary of him and his offering.
What gets me is the way Odin kills Thor IMMEDIATELY, no questioning, no attempt at changing his mind. In Odin's mind, if Thor can even utter the word "no", then he's already a lost cause and must be put out of his misery. Look what you made me do.
Yeah, That makes it even more sad, Odin thinks about Thor as nothing but his own killing machine and the second he's done Odin kills him no remorse
Thor is the one character who I wished didn't die in this game. This may sound fanficy but I would have loved if he just ended up crippled from Odin's stabbing. I would have loved to have post game conversations between him and Kratos about guilt, parenthood, and moving on. The one thing that I keep thinking of is if Kratos would bring up Hephestus in a conversation. Sif mentions that she, Thor, and theirs sons would make little horses, would Thor have heard that there was a god of craftsmen, and possibly found a new calling in building rather than destroying?
A hammer can repsent two things, destroying or creation. By thor building, his hammer can take on a new meaning with him
It’s worth noting that Thor is a god of the common man, including (presumably) tradesmen like blacksmiths
That would have been fitting, but its almost better this way. Thor in this game represents Kratos before he found Faye and before Atreus's birth.
He's filled with regret and disgust for what Odin made him into, not wanting to or simply being unable to cope with seeing his father for what he really is.
And the fact that Odin throws Thor's death on Kratos and Atreus as if the, made him do it is the perfect cap to how awful Thor's life was.
@@filipvadas7602 Not to mention how much Odin "cared" about his family. If you were of no use to the All-Father, you might as well not exist; better dead than useless.
That would've been great: the destroyer becoming a creator and the penitent man making up for his past. He could've completed his character arc and become a Norse version of Kratos.
Man, this hits so hard. My grandpa was an alcoholic in his final years and he was only in his early 60s. In the last month of his life, something happened and my dad told him he couldn’t see his grandchildren again until he got sober. He spent the last month of his life fighting to get sober only to drop dead from an aneurysm. When something like that happens, you wonder what could’ve became of them had their life not ended so abruptly. It’s truly a tragedy.
Damn that is sad , i hope he at least got to see them when in passing ! But that’s not for me to decide ! But if he was trying that is what matters !
As fucked as it is, at least he died trying to make a difference, that's certainly something
Sorry bro
I’m sorry that that happened to your grandfather. That sounds heartbreaking.
Odin emotionally beating Thor instead of physically beating him into submission reminds me of baby elephants who have ropes wrapped around their legs, which they can't break, and when their older, even though they could easily break the rope they don't because all they've ever known is the rope being able to trap them. Thor's spent his entire life Odin's enforcer that he doesn't know anything else even though he could probably beat Odin if he tried to rebel.
The biggest tragedy of Thor is that for the whole game he is a dark mirror of Kratos, but once he finally decides to be better, and defies Odin, he immediately gets killed for it.
Yeah. It was really lame actually. It felt more like shallow shock value than a meaningful developement. We needed to see Odin's true colors but there was waaaaay better things they could have done with Thor finally betraying him.
@@RacingSnails64 nah, sometimes characters don’t get happy endings.
@@RacingSnails64yeah I agree with kevin, but I will say it actually did end off only a little happy for the family, Thrud and Sif know that in his final moments, Thor stood up for himself and his family even if it cost him his life, and Thor can rest easy knowing he did that, and his family knows what he did.
I like Thor’s strongman physique it’s imposing and powerful, but it also tells the story of how big can folks are seen as objects, “help me move this”, “I bet you’d be a great football player”, “you’re scary looking I bet people are afraid of you”. I’m hoping we’ll see a Thor spinoff maybe a prequel.
i'd really like some sort of DLC where we can play as him even if only for a little bit
I, on the other hand, think he'd give great hugs.
Or worse, the silent looks of fear if you get even a little upset
It makes me feel like all I am is my body when people make comments like "why don't you play football?" Cause I don't wanna break my leg or get concussions for fun? Why am I wasting my body to not do that?
We don't tell women "oh, it's a shame you're not doing porn..."
@@nzephiertruee ima tall and broad guy myself and people either treat u like a work mule or shame u through "jokes" which you arent supposed to get upset about otherwise youre a buzzkill
I noticed something watching this again. In his final conversation with Kratos, specifically after he says for the sake of our children, we must be better, Thor pauses, relaxes his shoulders, stands up straight, and gives Kratos the slightest of nods. Such a wonderful scene of acceptance and shaking off a burden that weighed him down for so long
I know, right?
I also saw personally that thor implicitly regrets his actions with killing the giants. He keeps reminding himself what he has done to them throughout the game always try to reaffirm his thoughts on actions of being a destroyer. As if it was a cry for help or even more a cry for somebody to finally put him down, but preferably in a hell of a fight cause that what he deserves in his own mind.
Yeah it’s apart of his self destruction.. because he himself is part giant. So I’m a sense it’s battling w that.
That reminds me of, of all people, Leo Whitefang from Guilty Gear. A man, after massive war, wishes to be killed, for someone to finally put them down, but their pride stops them from just laying down and giving up easily.
Its especially striking that this is how Odin treated the son of the giantess that was his one true love. Unlike Baldur or Heimdall, there was no political angle to his conception. Yet he treats him worse than the mad hound (Baldur) or the watchdog (Heimdall). He sees Thor like an ox, fit only to pull a plow where the farmer tell him, until its back inevitably breaks. Even amongst the rotten way Odin dehumanizes his family, the way he behaves towards Thor stands out as the most toxic.
Pretty sure Mimir has a few lines of idle chatter on this, basically Thor's birth killed his mother, and since Odin is a selfish prick, Thor isnt reall a son to him, its the thing that took his love from him.
@@broutefoin God, Odin's got the emotional maturity of a preteen. Yes, his grief for his dead wife should be honored, but directing it towards a baby, HIS OWN BABY, for something no one could really control? Like, why does anyone need to be blamed for this? Can't it just be a sad thing, and can't he just let himself mourn? But, no, he can't let his emotions get the better of him, that would mean he's not in control. Gotta bottle that shit up, make his own son deal with it his whole life so he can keep being the center of the nine realms.
It's been said before and it'll be said again for years: Odin is a monster
@@KingJadonias You know, he's the god of the gibbet, and berserkers too, right? To honor him hang nine men on an oak tree, the blood eagle ritual is for him. Wotan, or Odin after his retconning, is on brand with this take and the thing about gods is that they don't change.
@@KingJadonias the All-fucker is indeed a monster
@@chiggsytube This was also incorporated in the game with the ravens: They are the corrupted souls of children that were hung by their parents to honor Odin
I also think Thor wanted Kratos to stop holding back because he knows how Kratos has changed for the better and I think it shook him between the games.
After all if Kratos can change then why can’t Thor.
He’d have to finally confront the fact that Odin, his own father, is the one who has kept him from leaving behind his worst qualities. Not to mention is also to blame for sending his sons on a mission that killed them.
So in this fight he tries to get Kratos to lose it because if Kratos still has that beast in him then Thor can be content in believing “Yep the monster’s still within him, you can’t change who you are so there’s no point in trying. Don’t think too much about what’s happening and just accept things for what they are. It’s easier that way.”
That's an awesome point!
Pretty much. Thor spent his life being taught by his father that he's little more than a mindless monster who can't change. Then Kratos showed up, and put this entire belief into question by being a better person for Atreus.
Thor is in disbelief, but still believes he doesn't truly have a way out of his situation with his father Odin. That he can't actually change his ways. Odin's hold on his life is just that strong.
So instead of making an effort to stand up, he seeks to validate his beliefs by pushing Kratos back to his old ways. And when he succeeds after threatening Atreus, he's satisfied, because now he knows for certain, he was right all along. Kratos never was more than a "Destroyer", a killing machine, only difference being who he kills for - his son.
Thor could've killed Kratos, but instead, he decided to leave him alive, to serve as a reminder that trying to change is pointless. It hits hard because it feels like something that could happen irl - abusive relationships can be found anywhere, and the abusers often dangle the hope of potentially appeasing them in front of their victims while putting them down. And since the victims feel a connection with those abusers, even if it's built on emotional manipulation, they can't really stand up to them because of this and end up doing things they don't really want to do, because in their mind "there's no other way".
I love this. Misery loves company. He sees himself in kratos but has great envy for kratos trying to be better. He eventually stops fighting it at the end and listens to the Greek, and decides to be better. Unfortunately, he died for it, but it absolutely still counted for something.
Thats a well spoken way to describe his jealousy
I think it's more of "you can't change what you've done" and by making Kratos TRULY hit him in real anger he can comfort himself in thinking that he's still in the past and you can't change that
Until Ragnarok where it's all or nothing he is living out the past and when he gets to the realization that Kratos has accepted The God of Wars' present, he decides to stop being nothing and accept The God of Thunders' present with his all
My dad was a hard man, my grandfather was a gentle and loving grandpa, but a cruel father. I don't just mourn my father, I mourn the gentleness he was never given. I mourn the mercy he deserved, they both deserved better. Male generational trauma is a massive theme in this game, and it is handled so much more poetically than you might see at first glance.
"Don't you know what I've done?!"
"Yes. But what will you do now?"
coming fron Kratos, that's some powerful stuff right there my boy
Honestly Thors portrayal in Ragnarök was a gentle reminder that Norse deities were humans with notable feats and amazing story telling to match.
I like gods as humans , it’s much more interesting
Cheers to Sony and Santa Monica-Assassin's Creed Valhalla got the same story to tell, but they screwed it up!
@@oosmanbeekawoo eh it’s a very different approach and story tbh
I’m iffy on it.
Only Demi-gods should have that human side. Gods in general are higher beings, in both body and mind. Their actions shouldn’t really make sense to us.
@@ValentinoMarino11 eh I feel mythology personified the gods enough where a human take could make sense
Thor was an instant favorite for me from this game. Glad to see a deep dive on him!
For me it was Heimdall
For me it was Heimdall
@@coldblizzard5880 Yeah I loved Heimdall too. Dude was such a prick
Sauce for the pfp my good man?
@@guardianofthetoasters2323 Sorry for the late reply but that is Thorfinn from Vinland Saga S2 poster.
After Kratos' positive change arc in the last game, transitioning him into a flat arc in Ragnarok was a fantastic choice.
Kratos gained wisdom and clarity from his son, and now his main goal is to bring that wisdom to as many people as he can. This is what sets him on the path of becoming king of the gods, shown in the final prophecy.
Kratos still has an arc in Ragnarok. He goes from clinging to Atreus to keep him safe to understanding that to truly love his son, he has to learn to let go. He learns that he has to trust that the lessons he taught Atreus will carry him through his own adventures and learn to trust his son's judgment. This whole game's theme is that the flipside of love is loss.
@@cl5470 what do you think will be the next game with kratos ?
I’m an alcoholic in recovery. Playing this game and witnessing Thor’s struggle was not only tremendously triggering, but extremely relatable. They did an incredible job at portraying the consequences of alcoholism on both the alcoholic and their loved ones. “What’s one more broken promise?” “Grandfather treated you like crap, you were struggling, I get it…but you can’t just- we’re here for you. Even when you’re here. We love you, you know that. I just thought that this was behind us” followed by the “I fucked up” hit me right in the fucking soul.
Very well written and very emotional.
I am sorry to hear that, but it is great that you keep trying.
Appreciate the person feedback on the character writing
I kind of imagine that Thor is what Kratos would've ended up like if he was raised as an Olympian.
Zeus probably would've treated Kratos exactly the same way Odin does to Thor if he had him since birth: An attack-dog that he can lead around and sic on whoever he says.
I like to believe Kratos is aware of this on some level and it's partially why he's more patient & sympathetic with Thor compared to other gods he fights.
Kratos is based on mythological Cratus (at least his name) and Cratus is basically Zeus's dog. He fought for him it Titanomachy despite being titan himself, imprisoned Prometheus and acts like Zeus's bodyguard
Personally I think zeus would not be so manipulative but yeah kratos if he was raised by zeus he would have ended up as zeus' enforcer.
I have exactly same thoughts :)
Zeus loves some of his children (athena hercules etc) while he hates some of his other children (best example ares) in mythology
Kratos was at least Olympus' attack dog for 10 years of his life. 10 years of serving the Gods for empty promises made him an ever more violent and cynical man. At the start of his journey he had sympathy for bystanders but by the time of the first game, and even more so by the 3rd, everyone, and everything, was expendable. All except for Pandora.
If Kratos hadn't met Pandora he wouldn't have been able to overcome Zeus, because he chose to change in that moment. He chose to move on, believe that he can moove on from what he did to his family. He never truly forgives himself, but he is willing to do better, rather than wallow in grief.
The final exchange with Thor and Kratos is probably my favorite writing in the game. Two tools created to destroy, who lived only the warriors path, two men certain they could not break that chain that led them from one slaughter to the next. But even though they were weapons they found solace, found love had children and attempted to *be better* despite constantly falling back into old habits. Whereas Kratos broke free from those who would gaslight and prevent his attempts at change Thor is stuck being manipulated and it's just brilliant writing that when Thor was ready to break free he's killed. He's denied that potential happy ending. It's a Greek tragedy for a Norse god
The fight however was dogshit
Forgot to mention that they both actually enjoyed murdering those people before they were in personal consequences. Thor never questioned his actions till his kids died and kratos never questioned anything till he murdered his own family. They were both perfectly fine with where they were. Which shows that they aren't good people either.
@@gurnoorsekhon6402 They’re terrible gods, but Kratos somewhat redeemed himself.
@@ValentinoMarino11 how? What has he done to redeem himself off of the sin of murdering millions and pretty much destroying an entire world?
@@gurnoorsekhon6402 nothing for the condemned greek pantheon sadly. It's an aspect I really hope we revisit, it would be a great way for him to truly on screen face everything he did.
Still I think what he has learned and his choice to become the rebuilder of a ruined world has shown him reject and condemn himself for what he was and atone by being what he is now, a god who cares as oppose to a blood drunk monster who destroys. Killing the god he was is a start to making things right.
At first I thought Thor was just this angry dad avenging his sons death. Then we realise he’s looked down by his dad who manipulates and essentially calls him stupid, knows nothing but smashing things. But I love how we see the humanity of Thor. I wouldn’t say he’s a bad person as such but he had a terrible upbringing taught only to kill and destroy, like kratos. I’m glad he finally stood up to his dad at the end but at the cost of death.
I grew up with a narcissist for a father, and the way they portray a psychopath like Odin is one on one with reality.
Thor's whole story reminds me of a story of the elephant tied to a pole. A baby elephant is tied to a flimsy pole, and can't break free, and is beaten everytime it tried. The elephant grows up and can easily break the pole, but it's conditioned not to even try.
Thor is the same way. If anyone in the 9 realms even has a shadow of a chance of breaking from Odin's chains, it's him. He's the only one with enough power to do it. It's probably part of the reason Odin abuses him so harshly even compared to his other sons.
Might be the reason why Odin killed him without hesitation. I think he was afraid of Thor due to how powerful he was which is why Odin berated him.
@@lazyquahog9385 damn i think you’re right
That reminds me of another quest in the game: Kratos attempts to free a Lindbaker, an island sized whale, from captivity. But it’s been so used to being abused that it stays there.
That "yes" when Thor asks kratos if he has any idea what he's done is so telling. Easily one of the most memorable moments in gaming as of late.
If you look closely at Thor when he’s drinking in Asgard, he’s actually trying to hold in his tears
Holy shit…
“Don’t you know what ive done??”
“Yes. But what will you do now?”
that line will always stick with me. as a former drug addict, for a long long time i believed it was just in my nature to destroy relationships with others and ruin things, until I finally quit and truly worked on myself for the first time in my life. You decide your path. there is no need to hold on to so much shame and misery throughout your life. “For the sake of our children, we must be better.”
I think the most interesting relationship Thor has is with his sons. The way Magni and Modi function alongside each other makes it seem like a classic "golden child" situation, and Thor's own relationship with his father and how toxic parenting can be a cycle tracks, but the way he and Sif reminisce about them doesn't.
They talk about them like they were little angels, and when Thor confronts Atreus he says "Modi may have had some problems but he was my son." I think how Odin treated him as a tool warped him so much that when his son tells him of his eldest's death, he reacts like the belligerent drunk Odin conditioned him to be. Magni thirsted for a challenging fight because he got it from his father. Modi desperately wanted Thor's validation, much like Thor did with Odin. Thor likely treated him so poorly because he was such a visceral reminder of his own failings, even looking most like him. Beating Modi might have even been a way at lashing out at the parts of himself he hated the most.
Despite his own flaws Thor genuinely loved both his sons, but his inability to grow from Odin's abuse allowed the qualities forced onto him to permeate onto them. It's only after they die he begins to better himself with traits that unfortunately could have bettered the lives of his sons, if only he'd begun to improve sooner.
Mimir actually has a line about this in GOW4. He literally called it toxic masculinity; "a grim inheritance, leaving them all the poorer"
very relevant message today
I always took the sequence of thor directing his anger at Atreus as Thor not truly hearing Sif. She directly says “our children were thrown at the All-Father’s problems” and the appearance of Sif towards the end solidified her as being a voice of reason
He heard her all and well. But like what Thor said in his last encounter with Odin. "Sif was right about you. I just don't want to see it" He deliberately convince himself Odin did the right thing.
I'm have an issue with alcoholism and seeing Thor coming from the same place me and many others like me have gone and trying and failing multiple times struck a nerve. Not because it was bad, but because I know what it's like to be there. I was in his shoes and he's in mine. And hearing his daughter breate him, barely having the pateince to stomach it anymore made me cry. I don't have a supportive family with my struggles, but my friends often are the ones encourging me be better. I failed mutiple times, failing now, but I know I do not want to reach that point; where the people who saw me be able to beat this lose so much faith in me that they barely have anything else to say other than "we're here." We can do it. to all my fellow alcoholics, we can do it!
I dealt with one of my cousin who is an alcoholic but now he is sober I am really glad he is and I believe you can too brother
@SasKheyz one day at a time right? I've been sober for a month so far and it's been rough but I'm here! I'm still standing!
You can do it man, don't let any bad part of yourself say different!
Even when he's not even trying in a fight (when working with Atreus to retrieve mask fragments). Thor is a powerhouse. He can kill anything in 1 or 2 hits, busts through walls like they're nothing. In the fight with Kratos at the start of Ragnarok even if he's not trying, he's a frightening enemy.
8:37 I love how this scenes really portrays the difference between kratos and Thor, Thor puts mjiolnir in the table agressively and like he doesn't care about his weapon, while kratos puts the Leviathan axe calmly and is caring about his weapon, just a simple scene can tells so much about 2 characters
Whereas the Blades of Chaos are completely tossed by Kratos
@@buggytheclown1533 sadly
Kratos is obviously a calm and reasonable person
@@Volkswagen_will I mean he hates them, sure he uses them but its clear he HATES the blades, they're a reminder of the monster he was and wants to move away from, the Axe is a weapon given to him out of love, the weapon of his dead wife, he loves the weapon as its basically the last part of her that exists he can still hold.
@@THERATSANDTHERATS Its also his "Favorite" weapon when asked by Atreus
I loved thor in this game ever since they revealed the design. Powerlifter Thor is awesome.
I will say that he was criminally underused.
I wish he had the outfit from 2018 but the design is badass
@@ItsButterBean1020 agreed, he looked really cool and maybe he could’ve just taken the armour of during the fight as Kratos broke it in phase transitions
@The Owl Lady it's not body positivity it's a power lifter body like Eddie hall
@The Owl Lady He looks literally nothing like Marvel Thor in 2018, look at Specilizer's video showing his model
@@ItsButterBean1020 I like the armor from 2018, but I feel the face model in the newer one makes him more distinctive.
Intellectual proise...
Thoughtful commentary...
Careful Analysis...
Then, "Not only are Thor's sons dead, but they suuuucked..." and then "Freya, her son, Baldur, is dead; and even when he was alive, he sucked."
I was caught so off-guard by this. I loved it!
“Sif was right about you.”
To me, the way he said that conveys regret and disappointment, not anger. Like he should have seen it sooner.
One thing I'd like to mention is that in the final battle with Thor, he doesn't seem to be fighting entirely for Odin's sake, but Thrud's. He seems to notice Thrud is with Kratos, and he ignores everything else going on to battle the danger by his daughter. The man just sent a massive snake with the soul of a giant back in time, and he goes to protect his daughter. I think it's also part of the reason he's willing to listen when given mercy. He was fighting for Thrud, the kin he can raise right, and he was given the actual enemy of his family. Not Kratos, but Odin. So he plan's to keep fighting for his family, but finally in the right way. At least that's how I interpreted it.
1:53 In the mythology, at one point he was tricked into drinking out of the ocean and he drank so much he noticeably lowered the sea level.
Ah, the Utgard-Loki?
What makes his drinking even more tragic is that as a God You're pretty much unkillable and ageless from normal things such as drinking and smoking. We don't know how old he is in the God of War games but could you imagine how long he's made his family suffer because of his addiction? Having an alcoholic father is terrible now imagine that for over a thousand years and no matter how hard and deep you get into the bottle It won't kill you.
@@penguinsmovies Thousand years of having that so-called "father" would be a painful one... Mind-bending even
freaking badlands chugs
I can’t imagine how long he must have spent pissing all of that water out
I think Thor kinda yearned for death, when he asks Kratos “what are you waiting for”, and says “don’t you know what I’ve done”
I wish Thor hadn't died. He'd've had a great redemption arc.
I would have loved to see how him and Baldur interacted in Asgard. I’d imagine they have some sort of understanding given how the mistakes of their respective parental figures have emotionally crippled them.
Well in god of war 2018 Modi asks why their father has sent them to Midgard with Baldur, says that he is fucked up in the head. Magni says it's because Thor trusts Baldur, showing that Thor cares about Baldur.
Literally what I was thinking, they'd have such a fun dynamic lmao
@@Errorvirus404 And it's get quite sad when it's said that Thor tried to help Baldur go through that situation.
Thor trully cared for his family, even Modi whom was said to be a mess of a person
This would be interesting because it seems Baldur didn’t love Thor despite Thor loving his brother
Baldur seems to consider his brother more bloodthirsty then him which could be implying he’s distasteful of Thor. But then the latter is clearly fond of Baldur, even ordering his sons to serve him because Thor trusts Baldur
Woow
There is actually a piece of dialogue between Mimir and Atreus that's easy to miss, which talks about the reason Thor is so different compared to when Mimir knew him. Mimir is surprised to hear Sif no longer drinks, remarking that she was apparently as much of a drinker as Thor was back when Mimir was in Asgard, and that both she and Thor raised their sons brutally.
Atreus and Mimir speculate that since it seems more recent for Thor, Sif may have been the reason, deciding to go sober in the hope of being a better parent to her daughter than she was to her sons, and that she made an ultimatum to Thor about his drinking, following what he did to Magni.
That all fits very neatly with your analysis.
ok so that's why she reminds me of suburban moms who abuse anti-depressants. She was doing the Norse equivalent of chasing Percocets with tequila to deal with Odin's bullshit.
I haven’t even played these games and Thor’s death makes me so sad… everything about him looks like an incredible character
When Sif is talking to Odin, The voice acting I love is when Oden says “ And your husband...started drinking on his own” With Oden’s voice pausing at first and then raising it up to end the conversation. To me this is the best line acted from Oden because it’s subtle Yeah it shows that “ had no choice mentality” Odin believes for himself. In that small pause he realizes that he made his son miserable, purposefully Edging him to drink. But for obvious reasons he doesn’t confront this idea and instead double down on it being purely Thor’s choice rather than his manipulation based on how he raises his voice and stops the conversation. To me the small paws actually humanizes Odin by giving him a drop of regret for what he purposefully did and then completely neglecting it a second later. That whole line is a microcosm of him although being the leader thinking that the external events around him are forcing him To do horrible things when in reality that isn’t true. That line and His last words to Thor truly make the ultimate antithesis to Kratos as a father and to the story as a whole. Both he and Kratos could say that they are justified in their actions to do horrible things for the sake of their families. However unlike Katos who’s learned Through several games with that mindset ultimately leads, Oden is, For the most part, Been in a stable position of power or he doesn’t need to question the ethics of his actions but still knows something is wrong. And rather than confronting this denial and questioning what he’s doing, He instead doubled down Resulting in Everyone else being miserable because of authority. Overall, This drop of doubt and him constantly trying to avoid it Separates Odin from being a far greater antagonist and Zeus was. We get hints of Zeus being kind but we never actually see it, as Zeus is always 100% with himself with all the actions he takes. It makes Odin such a humanized character as he found himself in this position where he doesn’t need to question his own actions but still feels like something is wrong. Only for him to immediately push those feelings aside and continue being a great antagonist.
I know there’s typos. Specifically I was trying to say “Than Zeus was” Rather than “and”
Odin also works as a shadowy reflection of Atreus: He has a thirst for knowledge, he is willing to lie to get what he desires and acts just like Atreus when he was revealed he was a God. The key difference is that Atreus has a sense of responsibility.
Odin's like Kratos in that he's so obsessed with a goal he'll refuse to change or listen to his conscience. The difference is that Kratos is ultimately willing to change in the end, whereas Odin refuses.
Odin is a master at gaslighting. It doesn't matter if what Odin says is true as long as Thor is convinced that it MIGHT be true. What makes Thor's death so tragic is that Odin made sure he SUFFERED even at the end.
Thor was really a lovable character, I was saddened when he killed by Odin. Seeing him being a drinking partner with Kratos would've been dope.
I think less drinking but as a friend and ally would be sick
The voice acting for Thor definitely played a huge role in selling this amazing character, Ryan Hurst did fantastic.
I just wanna add this to the analysis. In the bar scene it was the moment when Thor just give up on being better, he accepted to what he has become and think to himself he can't change at all so you have to imagine how many times he tried to better himself only for Odin to crush that.
I’ve seen people wondering why Kratos invited Thor in. Kratos was raised in a Greece when hospitality was a sacred duty in almost every human community in earth. Xenia says ‘Thor asked to come in from a storm’ and that’s more or less the end of it until Thor attacks.
Guest right is also HUGE in Norse myth of the time, yeah.
I think the moment where Kratos chose not to kill Thor is what saved him from death. Should he have killed Thor, Odin would have shown up to see it and then twist it to Thrud, leading both her and her mother to team up with Odin against Kratos. Since Kratos didn't kill Thor, Odin was alone in the last battle and had to fight uphill so to speak.
Thor should have killed kratos first
Yep, that's almost certainly the reason the figure in the prophecy looks like Kratos at first glance. Kratos was on track to end up that way. Thrud wielding Mjolnir teaming up with Odin while Atreus and probably Kratos are both avoiding going all out against her? Kratos is possibly more dangerous than Odin, but an enraged Thrud is absolutely way more dangerous than base form Atreus holding back. That likely would have been what turned the tables and got Kratos killed.
Stupid take 😂
That... makes sense, actually. Thor made it very clear that he was a threat to Atreus, just like Heimdall did. I could absolutely see Kratos decided to end the threat if he wasn't determined to be better.
@@Nyzer_"base form" like this is dragonball
The writing of thor is brilliant. Him thinking he cannot change just echos what athena told kratos. "You cannot change, you will always be a monster!"
I find it interesting that the first fight against Thor isn't to test you, but moreso for Thor to see his sons did not die weak and useless like Odin said. That's why he instantly backs off when you go into spartan rage and says "consider the debt paid". Thor merely wants to justify that his boys did not die in vain
I like that interpretation,. that's my headcannon now for sure
Seeing thrud confronting Thor in the pub was too painfully relatable, to anyone who's had a parent who struggles with alcohol seeing them relax is incredibly painful. All of thruds lines hit me like a truck.
I'm with you bro
Brett, I would absolutely love a video on Freya. I think she has one of the most interesting arcs in this game and your excellent character analysis needs her.
Gotta save the S-tier for last :)))
Maybe even baldur
Freya isn't that complicated. She loves her son. Lose the son and goes berserk. Gets over the death, kinda, now she's pretty chill.
I identify with Thor quite a lot,not the alcoholic part,but his _brokenness_ his inability to think for himself and thinking he can't change,I struggled with that for so long,and just like Thor I struggled through it,not by going against my father,but by going against my _mother_ who treated me almost like Odin did Thor,she thinks,I do what she needs done (chores and such,I was the workhorse of the whole house,did literally everything on my own) and I don't talk back or risk being grounded (I was once grounded for a year and a half for "talking back" to her) and when I finally took a stand against her I did so with the help of my father,who has always been by my side to help,and I have learned so much through him teaching me that he is almost a better teacher than any teacher I'd ever had in school,but I am glad to say that,unlike Odin,my mother has taken a turn for the better,she recognizes that she had issues,and she actually fixed them,and I feel like I can love her again because of her picking herself up out of her old ways,this video made me think about that the whole time,and if a video can hit that close to reality when speaking about a digital representation of an old Norse god then perhaps the old gods were more relatable than anyone ever thought
What I noticed about Thor is how he always has two expressions on his face. He either looks sad and desperate like a puppy dog or angry like when he’s fighting kratos. This perfectly shows how he has been completely deprived of happiness in his life and has nothing left to do but do whatever Odin wants.
What makes Ragnarök even more special personally is because it marked 2023 as my improvement year, of course I started my improvement right off the bat and not wait for this year but this game motivated me to become strong, take care of myself, make most of my growing years to become as good of a father as I can with an abusive father of my own, one that is like Thor: Violence as a first or second resort, alcoholic and depressing childhood/backstory. Difference being Thor ending up better. Thor's character is what I wanted for my father (except the death part) that instead of focusing on their own problems, focusing on his family. I see why he ended up the way he did but as a parent, it is his job to keep the family whole, keep them safe, train them for survival. Not lead to the emotions Thrud feels after the bar fight.
Disclaimer: I am aware parents are humans too and should be respected but he introduced me to problems of his own that a boy in his teen years shouldn't know of. I already had problems of my own, going through depression yet all he ever talked about was problems HE had, not what I did. He teached me important lessons but left scars that I will feel forever. No parent should put weight on their children's mind. Invite them to business that isn't theirs, or not for their age.
the feels
@@AnandaHaikal Thanks! And what also makes my life connect with the GoW story even more is the fact my father's father was abusive, had bad father & son relationship and that dragged along mine. I'll do my best to become a good father or at least a mentor to a cousin or someone else if I don't end up becoming a father. As Kratos said, the cycle ends here.
@@valiantti9261 Don't let my comment depress you, what's done is done. It does not make it OK, I know, but there's no going back. We can only go forward in time and we must follow it. Think it this way: My depressing childhood turned me from a spoiled brat and a bully into an empathic, kind yet aggressive person.
Stay strong man. Something that is working for me is to keep a diary where i keep track of gow many days i keep staying away from drugs and alcohol. And when I commit mistakes due to lack of self control I write it and try to rationalize it, aiming to ve better.
@@josev.8180 Kinda similiar with me. I myself am writing a book series, full of diverse characters that have different problems, some that others can relate to. To add some epicness and action, I made it a fantasy series with elemental powers with familiar and new species, not original concepts but quite original abilities and cultures. I'm proud you have found a way to express yourself, to calm your rage and avoid alcohol. You stay strong too, brother.
I believe that the new God of War is essentially a story about fatherhood and masculinity. Many people rightly point out how bad toxic masculinity is, and the terrible consequences that come from it. But our society today has seemingly thrown out the baby with the bathwater, and declared all masculinity bad. I feel like the new GoW, and Ragnorok in particular, is a response to the massive void in men’s lives at the moment, left by our culture trying to teach us that all masculinity is toxic masculinity, and by the toxic masculinity we’ve experienced from our fathers. Many of us grew up with terrible fathers, or no fathers at all. And Odin embodies that role. Overbearing, belittling, emasculating, dominating, close minded, swift to judgment. And it makes Thor into who he is. A father trying to be who his family needs, but unable to overcome the trauma his father put him through. It’s no coincidence that Thor is a recovering alcoholic, especially since alcohol is the most common way men deal with the abuse they faced by the hands of their fathers. However, Kratos represents the ideal we should all strive towards. He overcame his past trauma, faced his fears and shortcomings, and is the father that his son needs him to be. Strong, protective, understanding, encouraging, slow to judgment, instructive, dependable, admits his mistakes, and is a role model for Atreus. GoW shows us just how important healthy masculinity and good fatherhood is to the world. Men are needed. Real men. And good fathers are absolutely essential to the lives of their families, but in particular, their sons. It’s a vicious cycle that pushes out bad father after bad father if the cycle remains intact. However, the cycle can always be broken. But it has to start with us. We have to step up, face our traumas, and become the fathers we never had. For the sake of our children. We. Must. Be. Better.
Absolutely beautiful speech good sir.
God of War Norse Saga is an indictment of toxic masculinity, not masculinity itself.
idk if its a joke or it came from the developers but the recent God of War story happened supposedly because the developers and the players of the original trilogy are fathers now and these are the stories that would resonate with them
@@Darkhero32100 I couldn't agree more
@@jose-qp4yz nah it’s legit
Cory mentioned the direction was inspired by his own struggles as a father
I absolutely adore Thor's depiction in this game, easily one of my favorite characters in this game and I always found his story so fascinating. Love the video man
18:47 PEOPLE SAY THIS??? I love the Atreus sections! Getting to interact with all of the God's in Asgard is so much fun to me. They feel like some of the strongest parts in the game from a story and character development stand point. The only section I don't like is with Angroboda, because that whole part feels very dragged out.
Even though Odin’s offer in the beginning of the game was tempting and he seemed somewhat sincere, the more I thought on how he treated Thor and the way he spoke of his own kin made me realize he couldn’t be trusted. Someone who was that abusive and cruel to his own family was a bad man, period.
I struggle with depression and unhealthy coping mechanisms myself. Thor, despite being a god is very relatable to me. As when he says "no thinking". I feel that. As I think I am very stupid, I don't like to think. So it was like looking into a mirror with Thor. My favorite character in Ragnarok.
Same bro hope you’re doing better for now
Thor is absolutely my favorite character from the Aesir, and probably from the series. Growing up with an alcoholic father has allowed me to see things from Thrúd’s view, where she’s been betrayed and her father’s lost a ton of her trust.
But also growing up severely depressed and only coping with drugs has also put me in Thor’s shoes. I’ve had the “We’re here for you, even when you’re *here*.” speech.
It’s just so conflicting to see from a third perspective. His sudden ending on top of that just ties the story together as extremely bittersweet. Comfortingly tragic.
8:26 I think it might actually be a little deeper than that, I think Thor wanted to remind him of what it means to be a destroyer and all the pain that comes with it once you've realized you're a monster, because when Thor is sober that's probably all he can think about. Being a bad father, a wound-up tin soldier of his abusive father, a walking essence of death that affects even his family.
It's still really depressing that the moment Thor finally realized that he has the power within himself to stand up to Odin and find his redemption / confidence / masculinity again from Kratos' words it's immediately robbed from him, just like his family was robbed from him. Like Thrud said "mom and I are here for you we just want you to be there" and now he's gone from them forever sure his memory and sacrifice won't be forgotten but it's still sad that the moment he could have finally been better towards the remaining family he had left was immediately taken from him by Odin
I always thought that Sif knew how manipulative Odin was, and decided to try to give Thor a real-time example of his manipulation. She calls out Odin directly for letting Areus live, despite promising that no more Aesir blood would be spilled. She continues to use familial language to hit home just how important Heimdall and Thrud should be to Odin, and he just bullies her into silence. Her approaching Thor felt like a sort of wake-up call. Idk, I feel like if we got more screentime with her, maybe we would have gotten a bit more context.
Thor was so genuinely well done in this. I went into Ragnarok guns blazing ready to murder the shit out of him, but by his death, I was genuinely sad. Maybe it's me also being a father, but I was a little heartbroken when he died, especially at the hand of his father.
I mean, he did execute genocides on hundreds and thousands of people, sure odin was the mastermind, but the deaths were by his hand as well, i personally think letting him live after that and having a nice little life with his family wouldn't be a good ending imo
Nice breakdown. This made me sad that Thor was killed in the end. He would have made for a powerful ally of Kratos and Atreus, in spite of his sons being killed by the two of them. It made me also wish that these games could have been split in two somehow - Thor being the end boss of the first half and Odin, the second half. Thor's inevitable death was a bit overshadowed by the sudden fight with Odin at the end. A small critique of mine even though it was all great nonetheless.
Another small bit of characterization that I think is significant, both the Leviathan Axe and Mjolnir come to their wielders when called, but Kratos and Thor each do it differently.
Thor snaps his fingers, and Mjolnir comes, which gives me the mental image of a trained dog or servant. Kratos, however, holds out his open hand. It's a similar gesture in nature, but that feels much gentler to me, like he's asking if the Axe would come to him and, if it were sapient enough to be able to choose, it could choose not to.
It may be nothing, there may not be anything here, but this is something I'm choosing to believe is noteworthy.
In my opinion Thor is a more combatant and agressive one, when you hear him clacking his fingers you feel dread. Kratos is like his whole character, silent and controlled, but just as lethal
Thor can actually summon his hammer without snapping his fingers, he did it after Atreus and Thud pulled him out of that bar/pub/hall back on Asgard. I think he just does it for a bit of dramatic flare, like he can summon death with a snap of the fingers.
@@robertaddy8326 then it works perfectly, Thor works with exposition, he is big, strong and terrifying, and he let you know before kicking your arse
@@robertaddy8326 late reply, but maybe that could be a sign that Odin's death grip on Thor's psyche is weakening, albeit marginally?
I always thought of Thor's character like Kratos, when he served Ares.
If Ares never tricked kratos into killing his family then Kratos would have definitely turned like Thor a depressed person regretting his promise & needless killing of the greeks and being disconnected with his family.
The way Kratos responded to the loss of everything he cared about, was more akin to how Freya reacted more than Thor. Blind Fury but specifically vengeance, not just violent, but specifically hunting those who wronged him.
@@georgecrowcroft9260okay but Thor never had his chance for vengeance because Odin killed him
@@FatalShotGG Thor had hundreds of chances to tell Odin to go and fuck himself.
One thing I feel like I noticed in the first scene we get with Odin and Thor, Odin's eyepatch is what faces Thor, as if he puts in actual effort into going to tell him that he's "no fun anymore". Then, when Atreus finishes the mask, Thor is on the side where Odin's good eye is, making it as if he's putting conscious effort in ignoring Thor. Could just be me overthinking and missing details but if it is a detail that is consistent then I'm happy to have noticed although somebody else has probably pointed it out somewhere already.
Fun fact: the reason modi Got so suprised of kratos killing magni was beacuse prophecy Said that the sons of Thor would survive ragnarök, wich also means kratos killing Heimdall wasnt the first time he stood against fate
That's why Modi's words were
"How did you-" when Magni died.
Not something like "How could you" like when Atreus was talking to Odin at the end. He was in disbelief because of the prophecy that he'd believed in for so long was broken just like that.
It's also probably another reason why Magni and Modi are both incredibly reckless when fighting, and generally assholes. Up until Magni dies, they've lived believing that they will not and can not die. Why should they try and actually train or learn how to fight? They're guaranteed to survive Ragnarok. Why shouldn't they do or take whatever they want? They're the ones who get to shape what comes after the end of the realms, who's to tell them no or stop them.
And then Modi learned in that instant that everything he'd believed about himself and his brother was wrong. If he wasn't such a piece of crap, I'd pity the guy.
I was worried at first the narrative was making everything Odin's fault, and as a consequence the nuance of the other characters and their moral ambiguity would be lessened. Then I caught this series, looked back at the games, and realized the other gods are deeply flawed too, but the thing that sets them apart is they're trying to be better. Odin refuses to acknowledge his mistakes exist, let alone accept them. Freya, Thor, Mimir, Brok and Sindri, all made bad decisions in the past, but at least they're trying to make up for it.
As a daughter with an alcholoic father, the story of Thor and Thrud really spoke to me. And I love how you state that while it is an absolute bummer we didn't get to see Thor live in making his choices and finally standing up to Odin, it will live on and be reflected in Thrud with her actions and the story.
And honestly, that's deep
Thor strikes me as someone with PTSD and lots of regret but covers it with a veneer of sadism.
Same here
Love how in the old games, kratos was considered pretty tall and foreboding, but in the new ones when put next to Thor and Tyr and a couple other gods he is short af😂. Nice touch or realism as the Greeks were actually fairly short while the Norse were tall af
In fairness Kratos was fairly commonly dwarfed by the enemies of his land
@@ItsButterBean1020 And in some fairness most of those enemies were monsters too
But Thor and Tyr are actually outliers. Kratos seems to look down on just about everyone else in the game.
The norse were 5'7 on average,the notion of them being tall and massive contradicts like almost all norse skeletons that have been found and measured although some big ass norse people did probably exist or maybe everyone else was just really short in comparison back in the day
@@randomfactsthatdontmatter3466 There's Hercules though, and he's probably waaaaay taller than thor and tyr
I honestly can say that Thor's broken life is something that I can relate to. My entire childhood, I struggled to express personal agency. I am autistic and I was frequently placed in classrooms with special education teachers that punished me for any and all creative measures I took to manage my autism and later on my PTSD. I once tried to use my writing in fourth grade to keep a log of my anger, my personal ups and downs, and just my everyday life. My fourth grade teacher could not stand the idea that I was outside her control and she shredded every page of that journal in front of me. I could not be safe in my own thoughts and I did not write anything for the most part for the next five years. I was basically relegated to having my talents be shaped by ignorant assholes who declared that I didn't understand myself, other people, or even my own disability. I had no escape from their control or influence, all while they claimed that what they were doing was in my best interests.
Odin pulled the same shit with Thor. Quashed any and all persona agency within his son.
I am so sorry you had to go through that. Your authority figures had no excuse for such blatantly stupid behavior. Every kid is different and no two have the same exact talents. The best teacher realizes what their student's talent is and cultivates that within them.
@@RacingSnails64, thanks. These videos have been amazing at helping me to structure my thoughts on the various subtle abuses I went through as a kid.
I can relate to you man. I’m kinda the same way and things have been the same and I hope you’re getting better.
@@venjustice6666, I'm doing better. Still rough sometimes, but I'm doing better. Building more boundaries with my folks and respecting my own limits more.
Bro, the amount of self-control, restraint, and reflection that held thor back from turning the house into a crater was insane. And when he called off the fight, he had to muster the sane energy so he didn't go too far because he was thinking about the bigger picture of what would happen to his family of something happened
When Sif tries to have Atreus taken and when she speaks to Thor, I originally saw it as her just trying to get revenge for her sons, but rewatching it I realize she was trying to show her Thor to stop listening to Odin.
I always found it interesting that Atreus tried to talk up Thor to Odin, he knows Odin and Thor don’t get along. He also knows he would be better off by sucking up to Odin, but I don’t think he was lying. I think he was talking about how he understood his own father a little better, and trying to convey that to Thor’s father. It’s very Freudian.
I know, right?
I think one of my favorite things about this game was the way they changed my expectations almost immediately on who he was going to be in the first game everything you hear about him makes him seem like he's going to be this terrible horrible awful person. And then in this game when he comes and visits your house and offers you a drink it struck me it's so strange I was expecting him to tear down the door and begin fighting but to calmly walk in and offer a drink? This was not the terrible giant killer monster god I'd heard of from the first game.
Unfortunately my first time seeing Thor from this game was from a leak before the game came out and it was a screenshot of when he says “nice place” to Kratos. When I first saw that I was in complete shock and confusion. Like you I thought all Thor was going to be was some insurmountable force that would provide an awesome boss fight or two and not much else. Boy was I wrong..
An excellent parallel to Kratos in the Norse saga
Didn't mean those things he did didn't happen. My first impression was fear none the less. Once he was inside sitting across from kratos I was just on the edge of my seat saying "fucking shit dude were sitting across from a fucking mass murderer* lol
@@deedeekreep9139 mass murderer to mass murderer communication
@@realmario979 you know damn well that's not our boi anymore lol
Thruds and Sifs voice actresses are so good despite not being in the game much, especially in the case of latter, the emotion and sadness and desperation and angry that they express to Odin, Atreus-Loki, and Thor is brilliant.
Awesome video! Only thing I want to add on, is that during the final fight against Thor, he is quite possibly at his most vulnerable mentally. As you said about their first fight, Thor was at his most powerful when fighting Kratos for the first time in game. It's the only time we really see him at even a small amount of confidence. In the final fight, he's so mentally torn, that he constantly externalizes his inner struggles.
"He almost had me believing things could change!"
During this fight, he may not be pulling his punches, but he's already lost the fight mentally. Having no confidence drains him of any real chance of beating Kratos at this point. Luckily though, it gives Kratos that chance to get through to Thor and help him change.
I don't get people who complain about the Atreus sections. My only complaint is the combat was a bit underwhelming especially when you've become used to the gigachad Kratos himself but they actually made Odin my favourite character in the game. I'm a fan of the calculated manipulator characters and his comments about Magni and Modi actually made me laugh because I totally agreed. Still a messed up thing to say in front of your son (their father) though.
his jotunheim section was extremely dragging
and further a waste when it can't be accessed again as kratos, minus angrboda's house but he can only walk around and nothing else
they spent too much time in areas that will get locked off after completing them
rather than the permanent ones like muspelheim and niflheim
@@fasoooli2751 it wasn't a waste. That wasn't Kratos' journey, so why would he have every single option Atreus had copy/pasted over to his father?
My only problem with atreus part was ironwood. The other ones are fine, since they are not much long and show us other charcters interactions like Odin, Thrud, and even Freya and Jormungander. Ironwood is just Atreus and Angrboda for a long time
@@tatersalad76 it's for the sake of free-roaming replayability
just let it open for that
never asked for a story retcon or anything
I hate that they locked off most of helheim, upper wildwood and all the lower one too
idc if it makes no sense for kratos to return there
free-roaming there shouldn't cause an issue
@The Owl Lady that is the most L sentence i’ve ever read.